another one bites the dust - mike vick

[däp]

Legal odds against Vick just got much longer
By Lester Munson
ESPN.com

A grand jury indicted Atlanta Falcons' quarterback Michael Vick on Tuesday, which at least partially answers one question that has lingered since the news first broke about an alleged dogfighting operation on property owned by Vick in Virginia: Was Vick involved? Obviously, we know now that investigators believe he was.


There are plenty of football-related issues still to be resolved about Vick's future with the Falcons and the NFL, but those might be the least of his concerns right now. Questions about his legal future abound. Here are some answers.

What do these federal charges mean for Vick?

Vick is in real trouble. He is up against the might and majesty of the U.S. government with all of its agents, all of its investigative techniques and all of its skilled prosecutors. If he has any doubts about the power and skill of the forces arrayed against him, he can call Scooter Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, or he can call Lord Conrad Black, the disgraced media mogul facing time in a federal penitentiary. If he still isn't convinced, he can call Jeff Skilling, the zillionaire former Enron CEO who is residing in a federal pen. All three of them hired brilliant (and expensive) lawyers. All three thought they could explain their way out from under federal charges. And all three were convicted. Vick can, and probably will, hire some of America's best defense lawyers, but they will face a serious battle.

Would Vick be sent to jail if he is convicted?

Yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome. The charges are serious, and the evidence against Vick presented at trial will be nasty. The government's case includes evidence that Vick and his cohorts "tested" pit bulls for ferocity. If the dogs failed the test, the indictment charges, they were executed by hanging or drowning. In one case, with Vick present, the indictment says a dog was slammed to the ground until it was dead. In another incident, a dog was soaked with a hose, then electrocuted. Those aren't the sort of transgressions that lead to probation and community service. It's the kind of behavior that results in punishment, and the punishment will be jail time.

What is the next step for Vick?

Vick will watch to see which of his three co-defendants will be the first to make a deal with federal prosecutors. Each of them will think seriously about turning on Vick and offering testimony against him in return for less time in jail. Vick obviously is the prime target of the government effort. Prosecutors and agents will be willing to talk with his co-defendants about a deal if they are willing to help prove the case against Vick. The government indictment discloses four witnesses who already have agreed to testify against him. If all three of his co-defendants join these four witnesses against Vick, he and his lawyers might suggest that he, too, should talk to the government about a deal that would minimize his time in jail.

Vick is charged with "conspiracy" and violations of the "Travel Act." What does that mean?

The conspiracy charge will make things extra difficult for Vick and his lawyers. Under federal laws, the conspiracy charge allows federal prosecutors to link Vick to things that occurred even if he was not present. If the prosecutors can connect the four defendants, crimes committed by one of them can be used to add to the evidence against the others. It's a tricky legal procedure that prosecutors love and defense lawyers detest. The Travel Act is a device invented by Robert F. Kennedy when he was U.S. Attorney General in the early '60s. It was designed for use against organized crime and made it easier to prove cases against hoodlums. In the sports world, it was used most recently in the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics bribery scandal. Federal prosecutors charged the Utah organizers under the Travel Act and proved millions of dollars in bribes. Vick, however, can take some hope from the fact that U.S. District Judge David Sam found the organizers not guilty of violating the Travel Act even though there was powerful evidence of bribery.

What was Vick's role in the dogfighting conspiracy described in the indictment?

According to the indictment, Vick was in the middle of everything from beginning to end. He purchased a vacant piece of property for $34,000, the indictment says. He then had sheds built for training dogs and staging fights and a fence erected to shield the operation from view. And finally, the indictment says, he had a two-story frame house with a basketball court put up as a residence for the people taking care of the dogs. If you believe the indictment, the Vick property had everything anyone could want in a dogfighting operation.

When would Vick's trial begin?

The federal courthouse in Richmond, Va., is the home of the nationally recognized "rocket docket." Cases move quickly in Richmond, more quickly than in any other courthouse in the federal system. Vick's lawyers will be looking for delays and for time to prepare a defense, but the trial likely would begin in a matter of four to six months.

Are the federal authorities in Richmond tough on crime?

Ask Ralph Sampson, the former NBA star. He fell behind in child support payments to seven children he had with four women, the kind of thing that ordinarily is worked out in a settlement. But instead of a settlement, Sampson found himself charged with felonies in federal court. Then, very quickly, he found himself in jail for two months on a child support charge. Yes, they're tough on crime in Richmond, and they might be particularly tough on crimes involving the torture and killing of dogs.

[kaaos]

waht a stupid fuck

can we still swear in here?...lol

[däp]

my man didn't have better shit to do than make dogs fight.

[The Crazy Life That Is Alarick T]

Damn, his ass maybe toast...

[liL Ray]

Dog fighting been around since the dog was invented but they had to make an example of one of our Black male, star athlete and maybe roll model...damn!

but, on the other hand, he gave them the opportunity and the ammunition...

this is why I always say the Black athlete, entertainers, leaders, and other Black roll models has got to WAKE UP and RECOGNIZE!!!

[sammyrock]

This is crazy ass shit.He is in serious trouble.I love pit bulls,its a shame.I aint no saint,but I take and love my 2.

[däp]

Dog fighting been around since the dog was invented but they had to make an example of one of our Black male, star athlete and maybe roll model...damn!

but, on the other hand, he gave them the opportunity and the ammunition...

this is why I always say the Black athlete, entertainers, leaders, and other Black roll models has got to WAKE UP and RECOGNIZE!!!

i just don't get it. i don't understand how cats get all this cheeze and don't elevate their games.

[liL Ray]

i just don't get it. i don't understand how cats get all this cheeze and don't elevate their games.
see the bigger picture....

Marv Albert assaulted a woman, was caught dressed in some women undergarments and all other freaky shit, but he is still working more than ever and never lost his standing....

I have more...

[kaaos]

see the bigger picture....

Marv Albert assaulted a woman, was caught dressed in some women undergarments and all other freaky shit, but he is still working more than ever and never lost his standing....

I have more...

marv was out of work for a while right after if memory servs

[däp]

see the bigger picture....

Marv Albert assaulted a woman, was caught dressed in some women undergarments and all other freaky shit, but he is still working more than ever and never lost his standing....

I have more...

i'm with you an that. i just don't get how some cats don't use their money to come up, especially when you're a high-profile cat like vick.

all that potential, potentially down the drain.... and over dogs. it's stupid.

[kaaos]

Dog fighting been around since the dog was invented but they had to make an example of one of our Black male, star athlete and maybe roll model...damn!

but, on the other hand, he gave them the opportunity and the ammunition...

this is why I always say the Black athlete, entertainers, leaders, and other Black roll models has got to WAKE UP and RECOGNIZE!!!


Do you think if it were say tom brady and not vick, they'd let it slide?

[fred da warrior]

All this attention over a dude that can't even play football that well.....geezus

For the record, I have no use for dog fighting, but let's not be disengenious and act like cats haven't been been fighting dogs in the hood for the past 100 years or so and some of you all have witnessed it (especially those in our, uh, "community" organizations, i.e, VL, BDs, etc.) .....if the feds dug up another layer, they would have found cock fighting too....the silly part about all of this is that Mike Vick is about to be made the "face" of dog fighting, something that is WAY older than him....the difference is now "training" has obviously gotten more sophisticated from the days of feeding the dogs cough syurp and cocaine........I suspect the feds involvement in this is because they are looking for DRUGS and possibly steriods which may explain the other three jamokes that are ready to flip.....I guess marks the official end of the stop snitching campaign too


.....and when did America start a love fest with pit bulls? From where I sit, I would much rather have them fighting and killing each other than mauling some child which every few months you open up the paper or turn on the news and see some kid that has been attacked.....remember the heat Latrell Spewell took when wouldn't put his pit bulls down after they attacked HIS OWN DAUGHTER? The poor, poor pit bulls? Oh, please.......Of course, the middle aged white guys that make up sports talk radio pounding the top of their heads in self righteous indignation have gotten anmesia....and on that same point, just a few months after the Duke case, what happened to level headedness and "let's not rush to judgement" and due process, why the rush to see what Arthur Blank and Roger Gooddell are going to do? Just because the feds are involved, that makes it ok for the dude not to have his day in court?

[liL Ray]

Let's not be disengenious and act like cats haven't been been fighting dogs in the hood for the past 100 years or so.....if the feds dug up another layer, they would have found cock fighting too....the silly part about all of this is that Mike Vick is about to be made the "face" of dog fighting, something that is WAY older than him....the difference is now "training" has obviously gotten more sophisticated from the days of feeding the dogs cough syurp and cocaine........I suspect the feds involvement in this is because they are looking for DRUGS and possibly steriods....


.....and when did America start a love fest with pit bulls? From where I sit, I would much rather have them fighting and killing each other than mauling some child which every few months you open up the paper or turn on the news and see some kid that has been attacked.....remember the heat Latrell Spewell took when wouldn't put his pit bulls down after they attacked HIS OWN DAUGHTER? The poor, poor pit bulls? Of course, the middle aged white guys that make up sports talk radio pounding the top of their heads in self righteous indignation have gotten anmesia....and on that same point, just a few months after the Duke case, what happened to level headedness and "let's not rush to judgement" and due process, why the rush to see what Arthur Blank and Roger Gooddell are going to do? Just because the feds are involved, that makes it ok for the dude not to have his day in court?

Thank you!!! couldn't have said it better myself...

[The Buddy Love Show]

All this attention over a dude that can't even play football that well.....geezus



Thank goodness someone finally said it

M Vick is a terrible QB...the real scew up was Atlanta getting rid of Matt Schaub..the team better grab Culpepper and whatever else is floating around out there and cobble together a QB

[liL Ray]

the team better grab Culpepper that would be a great pick up...sorry.

[fred da warrior]

I stand corrected, btw.....Vick did meet with Roger Goodell a few weeks ago and apparantely told him that he didn't have anything to do with this.....so he could be in trouble for lying to the commish's face....


Shit, the whole "Ron Mexico"-herpes thing was more of a public niusance than this.....

[djmarbll]

Tom Brady wouldn't be under fire in the same way if this was his issue, but that's because he's won three Super Bowls, and he has the underlying subconscious advantage of white privelege.

[fred da warrior]

Tom Brady wouldn't be under fire in the same way if this was his issue, but that's because he's won three Super Bowls, and he has the underlying subconscious advantage of white privelege.

As evidenced by he supposedly knocked up two chicks at the same time and he gets a prime time seat at the State of the Union address held by the "family values" Republicans....

[liL Ray]

Tom Brady wouldn't be under fire in the same way if this was his issue, but that's because he's won three Super Bowls, and he has the underlying subconscious advantage of white privelege.

yeah, that's the only reason...yeah right!!!
:rolleyes:

[kaaos]

that would be a great pick up...sorry.


Culpepper is the automatic turnover machine. Duante is even worse than grossman at holdning on to the ball. but i guess there is nothing else out there for atlanta.

[kaaos]

I stand corrected, btw.....Vick did meet with Roger Goodell a few weeks ago and apparantely told him that he didn't have anything to do with this.....so he could be in trouble for lying to the commish's face....


Shit, the whole "Ron Mexico"-herpes thing was more of a public niusance than this.....


No it isn't

[kaaos]

Tom Brady wouldn't be under fire in the same way if this was his issue, but that's because he's won three Super Bowls, and he has the underlying subconscious advantage of white privelege.



Maybe i am naive but i think Brady would be neck deep in shit as well. Feds love to go after big names black or white.

If the Feds charge you with a crime, it's because they know they have a very good case to win. Vick is most likely gonna have to plead out.

[The Buddy Love Show]

As evidenced by he supposedly knocked up two chicks at the same time and he gets a prime time seat at the State of the Union address held by the "family values" Republicans....

compared to this guy that makes Brady a modern Mahatma Ghandi:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g122/mark_blagrove/image3050889g.jpg


"no cocksuckers in the prime time seats"

[fred da warrior]

No it isn't

A dude KNOWINGLY giving women (PLURAL, WOMEN) herpes (a health risk) isn't more important than this bullshit? Are you serious?

[deepsouth]

nothing is really fair in this world we live in today. the playing field is not level, has never been level, and never will be level.

if you keep your nose clean, you will most likely stay out of trouble however.

fighting dogs and knocking up two girls at one time are two different things.

[liL Ray]

Culpepper is the automatic turnover machine. ....and vick is?

[liL Ray]

Maybe i am naive but i think Brady would be neck deep in shit as well. Feds love to go after big names black or white.


I really wish I had your outlook on life or at least the rose colored glasses when you are not using them....

[Mr.I]

Man if this is all really true, definitely lowers my opinion of Vick:jpshakehead:

[djmarbll]

As evidenced by he supposedly knocked up two chicks at the same time and he gets a prime time seat at the State of the Union address held by the "family values" Republicans....

Exactly.

[deepsouth]

just nevermind.

[liL Ray]

nothing is really fair in this world we live in today. the playing field is not level, has never been level, and never will be level.

if you keep your nose clean, you will most likely stay out of trouble however.

fighting dogs and knocking up two girls at one time are two different things. I agree with everything you said...and then you wrote your last sentence and we parted...

they maybe two different things, but a league that is hell bent on cleaning itself up and showing a good face, the two would/should fall in the same category as deviant behavior at worse, and at least, immoral behavior.

but I feel yah...

[liL Ray]

Man if this is all really true, definitely lowers my opinion of Vick:jpshakehead:
I expect nothing from these atletes, movie stars, entertainers...most of them failed through their schooling and/or was helped along the way...the only thing I may respect of them are their work ethnic, but outside of that, they couldn't tell me who to make a ham sandwich or give me an opinion on what is the best brand of ham to use.

I never understood why folks put some much credence in these folks...I stand with Charles Barkley when he said They are no role models.

[deepsouth]

I agree with everything you said...and then you wrote your last sentence and we parted...

they maybe two different things, but a league that is hell bent on cleaning itself up and showing a good face, the two would/should fall in the same category as deviant behavior at worse, and at least, immoral behavior.

but I feel yah...


i agree with you ray. both behaviors are deviant and immoral, the problem is, one is a crime and the other is not. i don't think there is any way the league could have legally done anything to brady about his deal though.

neither brady nor vick would i set forth to my son as being a good example of how to live.

[deepsouth]

I expect nothing from these atletes, movie stars, entertainers...most of them failed through their schooling and/or was helped along the way...the only thing I may respect of them are their work ethnic, but outside of that, they couldn't tell me who to make a ham sandwich or give me an opinion on what is the best brand of ham to use.

I never understood why folks put some much credence in these folks...I stand with Charles Barkley when he said They are no role models.

charles barkley is a smart man. sometimes i wish he would run for office, but i think he is too smart to.

[Fletch]

All this don't mean jack doodoo until he gets in front of that jury!

[fred da warrior]

charles barkley is a smart man. sometimes i wish he would run for office, but i think he is too smart to.

Not smart enough not to throw people out of windows.....start a fight in a club with Jayson Williams (another fine citizen), spit on a little girl in a crowd.....but he is smart enough to know he shouldn't be responsible for raising your children

[liL Ray]

i agree with you ray. both behaviors are deviant and immoral, the problem is, one is a crime and the other is not. i don't think there is any way the league could have legally done anything to brady about his deal though.

neither brady nor vick would i set forth to my son as being a good example of how to live.

agreed! we on the same page...

[liL Ray]

Not smart enough not to throw people out of windows.....start a fight in a club with Jayson Williams (another fine citizen), spit on a little girl in a crowd.....but he is smart enough to know he shouldn't be responsible for raising your children this is the ultimate knowing thyself!

[deepsouth]

Not smart enough not to throw people out of windows.....start a fight in a club with Jayson Williams (another fine citizen), spit on a little girl in a crowd.....but he is smart enough to know he shouldn't be responsible for raising your children


we all slip sometimes, no?

[fred da warrior]

we all slip sometimes, no?

Yeah, even the Mike Vicks of the world.....

[The Buddy Love Show]

i wish i could throw mofoes thru windows

i'd be the second coming of Hugo

[deepsouth]

Yeah, even the Mike Vicks of the world.....


is a slip a one time short lived incident or a prolonged pattern of deviant behavior?

the non-weed deal with the airport, the container & vick, to me, that is a slip.

[kaaos]

...and vick is?

at this point in their respective careers, Vick is a better QB but as we know, that isn't saying much.

[kaaos]

I really wish I had your outlook on life or at least the rose colored glasses when you are not using them....

maybe a bad example but didn't they make a big stink over a small issue for Paris Hilton?

[kaaos]

charles barkley is a smart man. sometimes i wish he would run for office, but i think he is too smart to.


Barkley smart? never seen that in the same sentence before.
He was thinking of running for Gov of Alabama before.

Besides he is a big time Republican.

[kaaos]

All this don't mean jack doodoo until he gets in front of that jury!

If the Feds charge anyone with a crime it's pretty much because they know its a slam dunk.

I predict Vick will plead out.

[deepsouth]

Barkley smart? never seen that in the same sentence before.
He was thinking of running for Gov of Alabama before.

Besides he is a big time Republican.

he makes sense, is that better?

is he still a republican?

[The Buddy Love Show]

If the Feds charge anyone with a crime it's pretty much because they know its a slam dunk.



REALLY????

[kaaos]

REALLY????



Yes, I watch Law & Order all the time.

I could prob. pass the Bar with all the info on that show.

=)

[kaaos]

he makes sense, is that better?

is he still a republican?

Yep, and a proud republican at that

[liL Ray]

Yes, I watch Law & Order all the time.

I could prob. pass the Bar with all the info on that show.

=)
hahahahahahahahahaha....

[fred da warrior]

Yep, and a proud republican at that

not so fast, champ......
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/27/politics/main1842198.shtml

[deepsouth]

not so fast, champ......
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/27/politics/main1842198.shtml


that is what i was thinking.

[Fletch]

If the Feds charge anyone with a crime it's pretty much because they know its a slam dunk.

I predict Vick will plead out.
There have been slam dunks at the pretrial stage that have become airballs at trial. Trusts......!

[fred da warrior]

There have been slam dunks at the pretrial stage that have become airballs at trial. Trusts......!

The feds are depending on the other cats to flip....

[kaaos]

The feds are depending on the other cats to flip....

how'd they go from "feds say no charges will be filed for Vick" last week to this? Maybe someone did flip?

[kaaos]

not so fast, champ......
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/27/politics/main1842198.shtml


Wow I guess i'm not up to date on shit as i thought.
Intresting

[djmarbll]

I expect nothing from these atletes, movie stars, entertainers...most of them failed through their schooling and/or was helped along the way...the only thing I may respect of them are their work ethnic, but outside of that, they couldn't tell me who to make a ham sandwich or give me an opinion on what is the best brand of ham to use.

I never understood why folks put some much credence in these folks...I stand with Charles Barkley when he said They are no role models.

They may not choose to be role models, but kids will look up to them regardless because they're in a public platform on a regular basis. So Barkley still doesn't have a choice whether or not he's a role model, unless he'd have chose not to play basketball in the NBA. Michael Jordan knew millions of chidren were looking up to him and would never say what Barkley said in 1993.

[mhd]

speaking as a fan of vick, i gotta say its disgusting what he is accused of, you don't have to be a dog lover to cringe at killing animals in the manner described, i would hate to see him do serious jail time for this, but, how fucked up do you have to be to witness, support and condone that kind of cruelty to an animal. but, mike is done, va is probably the worst place in america to get in trouble, they are aggressive, thorouogh and unrelenting in criminalizing and punishing black defendants. richmond, you may or may not know, was the capital of the confederacy and that legacy is still fresh and important for many, many people here.

vick will do some years, i just hope when he gets out he has something left in the tank to keep playing, more importantly, hopefully he can help bring an end to this incredibly cruel and barbaric practice

[deepsouth]

it's going to be tough to kill a tradition over a hundred years old. no matter how disturbing it may be.

[DJ Johnny Key]

If I had millions of dollars like these clowns I wouldn't live anywhere near stupid people and have only 3 or 4 friends.

[deepsouth]

If I had millions of dollars like these clowns I wouldn't live anywhere near stupid people and have only 3 or 4 friends.



that is a Key point.