Any gun owners here?

[ProvocativeElement]

Was having a conversation with my closest friend last night. She was saying that she wanted to get her gun license and go to the range.

Didn't sound bad to me, but when I woke up this morning, the first thing that came to me out of nowhere (that's often how My Spirit speaks to me) is that guns don't protect anyone.

anyone here own a gun? why? ever had to use it? does it make you feel safe? how/why?

I just think that I'd feel a lot more "Unsafe" if I had a gun in my home.

speak on it.

[kaaos]

Was having a conversation with my closest friend last night. She was saying that she wanted to get her gun license and go to the range.

Didn't sound bad to me, but when I woke up this morning, the first thing that came to me out of nowhere (that's often how My Spirit speaks to me) is that guns don't protect anyone.

anyone here own a gun? why? ever had to use it? does it make you feel safe? how/why?

I just think that I'd feel a lot more "Unsafe" if I had a gun in my home.

speak on it.


I own a .357 Magnum revolver but i don't keep it at my house because of my kids. i keep it at my friends house in a lock box and then in a safe. we go to the range every once in a while.

[islandlover]

don't own one, never will.

[BrazenMuse]

I grew up in a hunting household. There are many rifles and several handguns in my home. They've been here all my life. They are treated with respect, carefully stored and have never been involved in any negative incidents. My father likes to collect antique rifles, so there are a few of them. I was on the marksmanship team in school as a young teen, have actively hunted.

I worry when people talk about getting guns for "home protection" because going to the range will not train you on how to respond if there is a home invasion or anything like that. It WILL get you killed because you overestimate your skill. Range targets and living people are very different things. You are frightened when your home/family is threatened, adrenaline will short circuit your brain...unless you train until you can load/fire accurately/reload in your sleep, you'd best leave the guns to the professionals. Unless you're enacting and reenacting variations on possible scenarios on a regular basis...just call the cops and let them handle things. People getting handguns to protect their homes are generally well intentioned but very poorly trained and hazardous. Maybe a shotgun, so you don't have to aim too accurately. It's hard to hit a running, moving, menacing target in full daylight...never mind in your house.
I'd say that your friend needs to NOT do what she's contemplating. Having a gun is not a way to "make you feel safe" - being sensible, prepared, trained and flexible...those things can make you safe.

[MYOR]

I'd say that your friend needs to NOT do what she's contemplating.

If all she wants to do is go shooting in a range, can't she just rent a gun there??

[ProvocativeElement]

If all she wants to do is go shooting in a range, can't she just rent a gun there??

oh no! she's not talking about getting a gun, she's just talking about licensing and the range! we weren't speaking at all about home safety, or owning. I just brought this up because I know a lot of people think that guns make you safer - when just the opposite is true.

[Daniel, Grand Duke of Stony Island]

Maybe a shotgun, so you don't have to aim too accurately. It's hard to hit a running, moving, menacing target in full daylight...never mind in your house.Damn, sweetness. :eek:

You ain't playin' wit' niggas. :rofl:

[Bill Blake]

Damn, sweetness. :eek:

You ain't playin' wit' niggas. :rofl:

And some rock salt, no murder charges, redneck way to go.

[Vinyl Deficit]

It's hard to hit a running, moving, menacing target in full daylight...never mind in your house.

I hate the fact that people keep guns "handy" in their homes with kids.

I have a neighbor that is so sure that if someone gets in his, he's gonna be able to grab his gun and take care of business. I believe he's sadly mistaken.

[BrazenMuse]

And some rock salt, no murder charges, redneck way to go.
Rock Salt freakin' HURTS!
:rofl:

[Steven Stewart]

I have one similar to this....

http://www.neaca.com/images/S_and_W_First_Mod_DA_Rev_44_Russian_10909_13_.JPG

[BrazenMuse]

I hate the fact that people keep guns "handy" in their homes with kids.

I have a neighbor that is so sure that if someone gets in his, he's gonna be able to grab his gun and take care of business. I believe he's sadly mistaken.
I believe you are correct, sir! It's dangerous. Unnecessary hazard in the home given our culture's take on guns...very bad move. :frown: Using a gun has to be soooo much of your daily practice that you no longer have to think...and even then, you might slip. Never mind all the "safety locked" guns that kids get and shoot themselves with or all the idjits who keep the guns either loaded or right next to the ammo.:shudder:

[BrazenMuse]

Damn, sweetness. :eek:

You ain't playin' wit' niggas. :rofl:
Don't be pickin' on meeee!! I'm serious here. Even the local cops know abt my dad and his collection...and I went to school w most of the officers...they know about me :wink:

...no, I ain't playin'...won't me be tryin' 2 hit u accurately w my .30-06 - I got a weatherby that will do you just fine...so what if I gotta get all that damn shot outta the walls? But rock salt...hmmmm...hvn't seen that used in a while...thinking thinking thinkin...

[MYOR]

I hate the fact that people keep guns "handy" in their homes with kids.

I have a neighbor that is so sure that if someone gets in his, he's gonna be able to grab his gun and take care of business. I believe he's sadly mistaken.

I believe there are stats that state that most people that have gun as protection get killed with thier own gun..

[BrazenMuse]

oh no! she's not talking about getting a gun, she's just talking about licensing and the range! we weren't speaking at all about home safety, or owning. I just brought this up because I know a lot of people think that guns make you safer - when just the opposite is true.

I know I'm country...why bother with rental/range? Just for the experience?

[BrazenMuse]

I believe there are stats that state that most people that have gun as protection get killed with thier own gun..
Yep. I remember hearing that too...you see Bowling for Columbine?

[ProvocativeElement]

I know I'm country...why bother with rental/range? Just for the experience?

yeah, I think so. just for the practice and experience (she thinks knives are sexy and I think she's turned on by the power of the gun - actually, I'm not sure about the gun thing really)

she's a bit twisted (like we all are) part of her charm . . .

[BrazenMuse]

yeah, I think so. just for the practice and experience (she thinks knives are sexy and I think she's turned on by the power of the gun - actually, I'm not sure about the gun thing really)

she's a bit twisted (like we all are) part of her charm . . .

Knives? I like knives. Used to be pretty good at throwin' the things...need to practice though...:biggrinangel:

[melik]

I grew up in a hunting household. There are many rifles and several handguns in my home. They've been here all my life. They are treated with respect, carefully stored and have never been involved in any negative incidents. My father likes to collect antique rifles, so there are a few of them. I was on the marksmanship team in school as a young teen, have actively hunted.

I worry when people talk about getting guns for "home protection" because going to the range will not train you on how to respond if there is a home invasion or anything like that. It WILL get you killed because you overestimate your skill. Range targets and living people are very different things. You are frightened when your home/family is threatened, adrenaline will short circuit your brain...unless you train until you can load/fire accurately/reload in your sleep, you'd best leave the guns to the professionals. Unless you're enacting and reenacting variations on possible scenarios on a regular basis...just call the cops and let them handle things. People getting handguns to protect their homes are generally well intentioned but very poorly trained and hazardous. Maybe a shotgun, so you don't have to aim too accurately. It's hard to hit a running, moving, menacing target in full daylight...never mind in your house.
I'd say that your friend needs to NOT do what she's contemplating. Having a gun is not a way to "make you feel safe" - being sensible, prepared, trained and flexible...those things can make you safe.

i totaly understand rifles for hunting (my own grampa was hunting in the pyrenees mountains long time ago)... but handguns???????? are you hunting with handguns in the us?

[Moksha]

...guns don't protect anyone.


Actually, they do protect a lot of people. i can't be bothered to go find the numbers.... but there are many, many instances each year of people protecting themselves and their loved ones each year.

HOWEVER, there are obvioulsy also loads of people who shoot themselves or loved ones each year. AND, even when protecting yourself, firing a gun at a person guarantees that you will be facing an expensive legal situation ("every bullet has a lawyer attached to it.")

If you are smart and safe, I see no reason why a gun cannot be an asset to your household's saftey tool collection. If you are a moron, it's probably a liablity.

[Steven Stewart]

If you are a moron, it's probably a liablity.

Hmmm...I've yet to meet a person who calls themselves a moron. :biglaugha:

[Phyllis Hyman Cherry]

I got .22,you gotta have some shit today in case a motherfucker tries it.If its my life in jeopardy i wouldnt hesitate to use it.That a knife whatever,you gotta do what you gotta do.
I like to pose this question to those that think handguns are always bad"If you get a call that your mother has been savagely beaten to the point that they cant recognize her body,and gang raped by people you know"you wouldnt be ready to bust some shots in a niggas head?

[BrazenMuse]

I got .22,you gotta have some shit today in case a motherfucker tries it.If its my life in jeopardy i wouldnt hesitate to use it.That a knife whatever,you gotta do what you gotta do.
I like to pose this question to those that think handguns are always bad"If you get a call that your mother has been savagely beaten to the point that they cant recognize her body,and gang raped by people you know"you wouldnt be ready to bust some shots in a niggas head?

Nope. I have friends.

[Phyllis Hyman Cherry]

The pleasure comes in merking them yourself.have you ever shot a gun?The power you feel is overwhelming.

[BrazenMuse]

The pleasure comes in merking them yourself.have you ever shot a gun?The power you feel is overwhelming.
ummm...go back to my first post in this thread, baby. I've got the trophies to prove it.


...gotta add my fave bumpersticker line: Gun Control is Using Both Hands!

[Daniel, Grand Duke of Stony Island]

...and this here is the smallest caliber I got!!!

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/boldsoul/dg-gunz.jpg

[dj c-los]

i have a glock for home protection.

[Moksha]

"If you get a call that your mother has been savagely beaten to the point that they cant recognize her body,and gang raped by people you know"you wouldnt be ready to bust some shots in a niggas head?

That is a moronic use of a handgun, and it will get you 20 years to life.

[Phyllis Hyman Cherry]

There are some things and people worth going to jail for.20 years is a small price to pay for getting rid of a low life piece of shit.The law doesnt work as we know so sometimes you gotta take matters into your own hands.

[The Buddy Love Show]

And some rock salt, no murder charges, redneck way to go.

Fuck that rock salt shit. When you shoot you shoot to kill. This aint a game or a movie. The decision to shoot means some life or death shit is going down and you need to STOP a motherfucker

no jury will convict you of murdering a home invader...but place a "drop peice"( another gun, knife, blunt object) in their hands post-mortem just in case

[Terry James]

been packin for years...Mossberg, Glock, Taurus and the el cheapo Davies. What you expect...I have a daughter

[The Buddy Love Show]

I got .22,you gotta have some shit today in case a motherfucker tries it.

a .22 is nice if you are an excellent shot, cuz you are going to need a well placed round to stop anyone bigger than Twiggy with such a small caliber

I think the .357 Magnum in revolvers and the ole reliable .45 ACP in a 1911 are the best STOPPING handguns out (two out of fashion guns but they've been PROVEN to save asses over their history)

a lot of folk like the .44 Magnum, but that bit of business is really HIGH powered

[Phyllis Hyman Cherry]

That shit is to big.I even saw a pen gun you gotta be close on a nigga to use that shit though.

[Terry James]

Hmmm...I've yet to meet a person who calls themselves a moron. :biglaugha:


http://www.searchforvideo.com/watchclip.php?title=Dea+Agent+Accidently+Shoots+Hi mself+In+The+Foot&link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2F%3Fv%3DeP6UvNg bqIA&description=DEA+Agent+Accidently+shoots+himself+in +the+foot+teaching+a+gun+safty+video...+NO+JOKE%21 %21&source=YouTube.com&image=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.youtube.com%2Fvi%2FeP6UvNgb qIA%2Fdefault.jpg&category=directory&searchterm=%2Fviral%2Fpopular%2Fdea-agent-shoots-himself%2F

[TAC]

I'm bussing wit mi MAC 11....

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/748/mac11pf1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

IN FORMAH FI DEAD!!!!

[BrazenMuse]

a .22 is nice if you are an excellent shot, cuz you are going to need a well placed round to stop anyone bigger than Twiggy with such a small caliber

I think the .357 Magnum in revolvers and the ole reliable .45 ACP in a 1911 are the best STOPPING handguns out (two out of fashion guns but they've been PROVEN to save asses over their history)

a lot of folk like the .44 Magnum, but that bit of business is really HIGH powered

I dunno. I likes my .38 Special. The old police job. Have a.357 but that is just too much gun for me. I actually prefer rifles...and for the home? Weatherby.

.22 means you gotta be really good and really accurate. That means you'd better be practicing regularly. And never pull it out if you're just planning to talk a fool to death before you shoot.

[BrazenMuse]

been packin for years...Mossberg, Glock, Taurus and the el cheapo Davies. What you expect...I have a daughter Just wrong! My Dad used to clean guns at the table whenever guys came to visit. "So...boy...where'ya from?" :rofl:

WW - I hear you on the rock salt...but it's an old fashioned version of pest deterrant...!

Danny...danny...put dem guns away...u know them things is danja-rus!

[Daniel, Grand Duke of Stony Island]

I dunno. I likes my .38 Special. The old police job. Have a.357 but that is just too much gun for me. I actually prefer rifles...and for the home? Weatherby.

.22 means you gotta be really good and really accurate. That means you'd better be practicing regularly. And never pull it out if you're just planning to talk a fool to death before you shoot.<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RQz_0Z0nE2Q"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RQz_0Z0nE2Q" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[The Buddy Love Show]

That shit is to big.I even saw a pen gun you gotta be close on a nigga to use that shit though.

I dont know much about terminal ballistics. I have participated in Gun Clubs (an am an NRA member) and one gave out a great book on the subject. I'll dig thru storage and find the title for you

I did a search and found this helpful article:
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/terminal.html

be careful: guns are useful tools in the hands of RESPONSIBLE individuals

[The Buddy Love Show]

I dunno. I likes my .38 Special. The old police job. Have a.357 but that is just too much gun for me. I actually prefer rifles...and for the home? Weatherby.

.22 means you gotta be really good and really accurate. That means you'd better be practicing regularly. And never pull it out if you're just planning to talk a fool to death before you shoot.

I was talking with a fellow who thought that the lever action Winchester .357 Compact model was a great home defense tool. Basically, a carbine, that is great for the tight corners in a home, and won't have the dispersal pattern of a shotgun. The plus side is you get the stopping power of .357 and you dont have to replaster the whole room the negative is you have to shoot tight groups under duress.

[The Buddy Love Show]

PS

I know there are some very liberal folk on this board who think that firearms are evil ( personally i think $ can kill more effectively )

This is a great site with an afrocentric view on the subject:

http://www.blackmanwithagun.com/

[BrazenMuse]

I was talking with a fellow who thought that the lever action Winchester .357 Compact model was a great home defense tool. Basically, a carbine, that is great for the tight corners in a home, and won't have the dispersal pattern of a shotgun. The plus side is you get the stopping power of .357 and you dont have to replaster the whole room the negative is you have to shoot tight groups under duress.

I think guns are only as evil as the people whose hands they are in. A gun is a tool, not a replacement phallus or a shortcut to puissance.

I may hv to look into that winchester, sounds interesting...will i buy another gun soon...? Hmmm...

I don't mind the shot scatter...my house is old and the hallways are narrow, so I might be able to get away with a rifle. You'd have had to get into my house past my dog, probably by killing him...but he's noisy as hell, so I'd know you're coming. The corridor from the master bedroom is narrow and ends in the dining room...which has huge windows and faces the driveway...I don't like the idea of shots going next door. The master bedroom has windows. I keep it pretty well lit out there. I'd see your azz if you tried those...and the dog would have something to say about that too...That's plenty of time for a shotgun blast or two...even sleepy, you aren't gonna enjoy it. The other stuff is within reach...and I can lock/load pretty fast...

For home protection, I've said it before and will say it again: Cell phone, alarm system, dog. That's all anyone really needs if they aren't going to take the time to train properly.

I got a problem w the NRA stance on semi-automatics. Who the heck HUNTS with those things? U gonna take home a tuft of fur or one feather?

[Daniel, Grand Duke of Stony Island]

PS

I know there are some very liberal folk on this board who think that firearms are evil ( personally i think $ can kill more effectively )

This is a great site with an afrocentric view on the subject:

http://www.blackmanwithagun.com/That's a frickin' t-shirt.

[MYOR]

I think guns are only as evil as the people whose hands they are in.

I think unfortunetly good people do stupid things in time of dispair.. So the gun can become evil in in the hands of a good person..

[The Buddy Love Show]

I think guns are only as evil as the people whose hands they are in. A gun is a tool, not a replacement phallus or a shortcut to puissance.

I may hv to look into that winchester, sounds interesting...will i buy another gun soon...? Hmmm...

I don't mind the shot scatter...my house is old and the hallways are narrow, so I might be able to get away with a rifle. You'd have had to get into my house past my dog, probably by killing him...but he's noisy as hell, so I'd know you're coming. The corridor from the master bedroom is narrow and ends in the dining room...which has huge windows and faces the driveway...I don't like the idea of shots going next door. The master bedroom has windows. I keep it pretty well lit out there. I'd see your azz if you tried those...and the dog would have something to say about that too...That's plenty of time for a shotgun blast or two...even sleepy, you aren't gonna enjoy it. The other stuff is within reach...and I can lock/load pretty fast...

For home protection, I've said it before and will say it again: Cell phone, alarm system, dog. That's all anyone really needs if they aren't going to take the time to train properly.

I got a problem w the NRA stance on semi-automatics. Who the heck HUNTS with those things? U gonna take home a tuft of fur or one feather?

I have a LOT of problems w the NRA...but membership has its advantages

Their stance on semi-automatics is absurd as well as their resistance to background checks and "smart" technology

[BrazenMuse]

I think unfortunetly good people do stupid things in time of dispair.. So the gun can become evil in in the hands of a good person..

Agreed.

[The Buddy Love Show]

Blanchard had this article on his site. I read it years ago and was amused but not amazed, because folk always try to talk us out of things that they have readily available for themselves:


The Racist Origins of US Gun Control Laws
Designed To Disarm Slaves, Freedmen, And African-Americans

Steve Ekwall


OVERVIEW

Before the Civil War ended, State "Slave Codes" prohibited slaves from owning guns. After President Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863 and after the Thirteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution abolishing slavery was adopted and the Civil War ended in 1865, States persisted in prohibiting blacks, now freemen, from owning guns under laws renamed "Black Codes." They did so on the basis that blacks were not citizens, and thus did not have the same rights, including the right to keep and bear arms protected in the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, as whites. This view was specifically articulated by the U.S. Supreme Court in its infamous 1857 decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford to uphold slavery.

The United States Congress overrode most portions of the Black Codes by passing the Civil Rights Act of 1866. The legislative histories of both the Civil Rights Act and the Fourteenth Amendment, as well as The Special Report of the Anti-Slavery Conference of 1867, are replete with denunciations of those particular statutes that denied blacks equal access to firearms. [Kates, "Handgun Prohibition and the Original Meaning of the Second Amendment," 82 Mich. L. Rev. 204, 256 (1983)] However, facially neutral disarming through economic means laws remain in effect.

After the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution in 1878, most States turned to "facially neutral" business or transaction taxes on handgun purchases. However, the intention of these laws was not neutral. An article in Virginia 's official university law review called for a "prohibitive tax...on the privilege" of selling handguns as a way of disarming "the son of Ham," whose "cowardly practice of 'toting' guns has been one of the most fruitful sources of crime.... Let a negro board a railroad train with a quart of mean whiskey and a pistol in his grip and the chances are that there will be a murder, or at least a row, before he alights." [Comment, Carrying Concealed Weapons, 15 VA L. Reg. 391, 391-92 (1909); George Mason University Civil Rights Law Journal (GMU CR LJ), Vol. 2, No. 1, "Gun Control and Racism," Stefan Tahmassebi, 1991, p. 75] Thus, many Southern States imposed high taxes or banned inexpensive guns so as to price blacks and poor whites out of the gun market.

In the 1990s, "gun control" laws continue to be enacted so as to have a racist effect if not intent: Police-issued license and permit laws, unless drafted to require issuance to those not prohibited by law from owning guns, are routinely used to prevent lawful gun ownership among "unpopular" populations. Public housing residents, approximately 3 million Americans, are singled out for gun bans. "Gun sweeps" by police in "high crime neighborhoods" whereby vehicles and "pedestrians who meet a specific profile that might indicate they are carrying a weapon" are searched are becoming popular, and are being studied by the U.S. Department of Justice as "Operation Ceasefire."

Sample Slave Codes, Black Codes, Economic-Based Gun Bans Used To Prevent The Arming Of African Americans, 1640-1995


Sample Slave Codes, Black Codes, Economic-Based Gun Bans Used To Prevent The Arming Of African Americans, 1640-1995


YEAR JURISDICTION STATUTE

1640 Virginia Race-based total gun and self-defense ban.


"Prohibiting negroes, slave and free, from carrying weapons including clubs." (The Los Angeles Times, "To Fight Crime, Some Blacks Attack Gun Control," January 19, 1992)

1640 Virginia Race-based total gun ban. "That all such free Mulattoes, Negroes and Indians… shall appear without arms." [7 The Statues at Large; Being a Collection of all the Laws of Virginia, from the First Session of the Legislature, in the Year 1619, p. 95 (W.W. Henning ed. 1823).] (GMU CR LJ, p. 67)

1712 Virginia Race-based total gun ban. "An Act for Preventing Negroes Insurrections." (Henning, p. 481) (GMU CR LJ, p. 70)


1712 South Carolina Race-based total gun ban. "An act for the better ordering and governing of Negroes and slaves." [7 Statutes at Large of South Carolina , p. 353-54 (D.J.McCord ed. 1836-1873).] (GMU CR LJ, p. 70)

1791 2nd Amendment to the Constitution ratified. Reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State , the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

1792 Blacks excluded from the militia, i.e. law-abiding males thus instilled with the right to own guns. Uniform Militia Act of 1792 "called for the enrollment of every free, able-bodied white male citizen between the ages of eighteen and forty-five" to be in the militia, and specified that every militia member was to "provide himself with a musket or firelock, a bayonet, and ammunition." [1 Stat. 271 (Georgetown Law Journal, Vol. 80, No. 2, "The Second Amendment: Toward an Afro-Americanist Reconsideration," Robert Cottrol and Raymond Diamond, 1991, p. 331)]

1806 Louisiana Complete gun and self-defense ban for slaves. Black Code, ch. 33, Sec. 19, Laws of La. 150, 160 (1806) provided that a slave was denied the use of firearms and all other offensive weapons. (GLJ, p. 337)


1811 Louisiana Complete gun ban for slaves. Act of April 8, 1811, ch. 14, 1811 Laws of La. 50, 53-54, forbade sale or delivery of firearms to slaves. ( Id. )


1819 South Carolina Master's permission required for gun possession by slave. Act of Dec. 18, 1819, 1819 Acts of S.C. 28, 31, prohibited slaves outside the company of whites or without written permission from their master from using or carrying firearms unless they were hunting or guarding the master's plantation. ( Id. )

1825 Florida Slave and free black homes searched for guns for confiscation. "An Act to Govern Patrols," 1825 Acts of Fla. 52, 55 - Section 8 provided that white citizen patrols "shall enter into all negro houses and suspected places, and search for arms and other offensive or improper weapons, and may lawfully seize and take away all such arms, weapons, and ammunition… ." Section 9 provided that a slave might carry a firearm under this statute either by means of the weekly renewable license or if "in the presence of some white person." ( Id. )

1828 Florida Free blacks permitted to carry guns if court approval. Act of Nov. 17, 1828 Sec. 9, 1828 Fla. Laws 174, 177; Act of Jan. 12, 1828, Sec. 9, 1827 Fla. Laws 97, 100 - Florida went back and forth on the question of licenses for free blacks; twice in 1828, Florida enacted provisions providing for free blacks to carry and use firearms upon obtaining a license from a justice of the peace. ( Id. )

1831 Florida Race-based total gun ban. Act of Jan. 1831, 1831 Fla. Laws 30 - Florida repealed all provision for firearm licenses for free blacks. (Id. p. 337-38)

1831 Delaware Free blacks permitted to carry guns if court approval. In the December 1831 legislative session, Delaware required free blacks desiring to carry firearms to obtain a license from a justice of the peace. [(Herbert Aptheker, Nat Turner's Slave Rebellion, p. 74-75 (1966).] (GLJ, p. 338)

1831 Maryland Race-based total gun ban. In the December 1831 legislative session, Maryland entirely prohibited free blacks from carrying arms. (Aptheker, p. 75) (Id., p. 338)

1831 Virginia Race-based total gun ban. In the December 1831 legislative session, Virginia entirely prohibited free blacks from carrying arms. (Aptheker, p. 81) (Id., p. 338)


1833 Florida Slave and free black homes searched for guns for confiscation. Act of Feb. 17, 1833, ch. 671, Sec. 15, 17, 1833 Fla. Laws 26, 29 authorized white citizen patrols to seize arms found in the homes of slaves and free blacks, and provided that blacks without a proper explanation for the presence of the firearms be summarily punished, without benefit of a judicial tribunal. ( Id. p. 338)

1833 Race-based total gun ban. Act of Dec. 23, 1833, Sec. 7, 1833 Ga. Laws 226, 228 declared that "it shall not be lawful for any free person of colour in this state, to own, use, or carry fire arms of any description whatever." ( Id. )

1840 Florida Complete gun ban for slaves. Act of Feb. 25, 1840, no. 20, Sec. 1, 1840 Acts of Fla. 22-23 made sale or delivery of firearms to slaves forbidden. ( Id. p. 337)

1840 Texas Complete gun ban for slaves. "An Act Concerning Slaves," Sec. 6, 1840 Laws of Tex. 171, 172, ch. 58 of the Texas Acts of 1850 prohibited slaves from using firearms altogether from 1842-1850. (Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Northwestern University, Vol. 85, No. 3, "Gun Control and Economic Discrimination: The Melting-Point Case-In-Point," T. Markus Funk, 1995, p. 797)

[The Buddy Love Show]

Sample Slave Codes, Black Codes, Economic-Based Gun Bans Used To Prevent The Arming Of African Americans, 1640-1995


YEAR JURISDICTION STATUTE

1640 Virginia Race-based total gun and self-defense ban.


"Prohibiting negroes, slave and free, from carrying weapons including clubs." (The Los Angeles Times, "To Fight Crime, Some Blacks Attack Gun Control," January 19, 1992)

1640 Virginia Race-based total gun ban. "That all such free Mulattoes, Negroes and Indians… shall appear without arms." [7 The Statues at Large; Being a Collection of all the Laws of Virginia, from the First Session of the Legislature, in the Year 1619, p. 95 (W.W. Henning ed. 1823).] (GMU CR LJ, p. 67)

1712 Virginia Race-based total gun ban. "An Act for Preventing Negroes Insurrections." (Henning, p. 481) (GMU CR LJ, p. 70)


1712 South Carolina Race-based total gun ban. "An act for the better ordering and governing of Negroes and slaves." [7 Statutes at Large of South Carolina , p. 353-54 (D.J.McCord ed. 1836-1873).] (GMU CR LJ, p. 70)

1791 2nd Amendment to the Constitution ratified. Reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State , the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

1792 Blacks excluded from the militia, i.e. law-abiding males thus instilled with the right to own guns. Uniform Militia Act of 1792 "called for the enrollment of every free, able-bodied white male citizen between the ages of eighteen and forty-five" to be in the militia, and specified that every militia member was to "provide himself with a musket or firelock, a bayonet, and ammunition." [1 Stat. 271 (Georgetown Law Journal, Vol. 80, No. 2, "The Second Amendment: Toward an Afro-Americanist Reconsideration," Robert Cottrol and Raymond Diamond, 1991, p. 331)]

1806 Louisiana Complete gun and self-defense ban for slaves. Black Code, ch. 33, Sec. 19, Laws of La. 150, 160 (1806) provided that a slave was denied the use of firearms and all other offensive weapons. (GLJ, p. 337)


1811 Louisiana Complete gun ban for slaves. Act of April 8, 1811, ch. 14, 1811 Laws of La. 50, 53-54, forbade sale or delivery of firearms to slaves. ( Id. )


1819 South Carolina Master's permission required for gun possession by slave. Act of Dec. 18, 1819, 1819 Acts of S.C. 28, 31, prohibited slaves outside the company of whites or without written permission from their master from using or carrying firearms unless they were hunting or guarding the master's plantation. ( Id. )

1825 Florida Slave and free black homes searched for guns for confiscation. "An Act to Govern Patrols," 1825 Acts of Fla. 52, 55 - Section 8 provided that white citizen patrols "shall enter into all negro houses and suspected places, and search for arms and other offensive or improper weapons, and may lawfully seize and take away all such arms, weapons, and ammunition… ." Section 9 provided that a slave might carry a firearm under this statute either by means of the weekly renewable license or if "in the presence of some white person." ( Id. )

1828 Florida Free blacks permitted to carry guns if court approval. Act of Nov. 17, 1828 Sec. 9, 1828 Fla. Laws 174, 177; Act of Jan. 12, 1828, Sec. 9, 1827 Fla. Laws 97, 100 - Florida went back and forth on the question of licenses for free blacks; twice in 1828, Florida enacted provisions providing for free blacks to carry and use firearms upon obtaining a license from a justice of the peace. ( Id. )

1831 Florida Race-based total gun ban. Act of Jan. 1831, 1831 Fla. Laws 30 - Florida repealed all provision for firearm licenses for free blacks. (Id. p. 337-38)

1831 Delaware Free blacks permitted to carry guns if court approval. In the December 1831 legislative session, Delaware required free blacks desiring to carry firearms to obtain a license from a justice of the peace. [(Herbert Aptheker, Nat Turner's Slave Rebellion, p. 74-75 (1966).] (GLJ, p. 338)

1831 Maryland Race-based total gun ban. In the December 1831 legislative session, Maryland entirely prohibited free blacks from carrying arms. (Aptheker, p. 75) (Id., p. 338)

1831 Virginia Race-based total gun ban. In the December 1831 legislative session, Virginia entirely prohibited free blacks from carrying arms. (Aptheker, p. 81) (Id., p. 338)


1833 Florida Slave and free black homes searched for guns for confiscation. Act of Feb. 17, 1833, ch. 671, Sec. 15, 17, 1833 Fla. Laws 26, 29 authorized white citizen patrols to seize arms found in the homes of slaves and free blacks, and provided that blacks without a proper explanation for the presence of the firearms be summarily punished, without benefit of a judicial tribunal. ( Id. p. 338)

1833 Race-based total gun ban. Act of Dec. 23, 1833, Sec. 7, 1833 Ga. Laws 226, 228 declared that "it shall not be lawful for any free person of colour in this state, to own, use, or carry fire arms of any description whatever." ( Id. )

1840 Florida Complete gun ban for slaves. Act of Feb. 25, 1840, no. 20, Sec. 1, 1840 Acts of Fla. 22-23 made sale or delivery of firearms to slaves forbidden. ( Id. p. 337)

1840 Texas Complete gun ban for slaves. "An Act Concerning Slaves," Sec. 6, 1840 Laws of Tex. 171, 172, ch. 58 of the Texas Acts of 1850 prohibited slaves from using firearms altogether from 1842-1850. (Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Northwestern University, Vol. 85, No. 3, "Gun Control and Economic Discrimination: The Melting-Point Case-In-Point," T. Markus Funk, 1995, p. 797)

1844 North Carolina Race-based gun ban upheld because free blacks "not citizens." In State v. Newsom, 27 N.C. 250 (1844), the Supreme Court of North Carolina upheld a Slave Code law prohibiting free blacks from carrying firearms on the grounds that they were not citizens. (GMU CR LJ, p. 70)

1845 North Carolina Complete gun ban for slaves. Act of Jan. 1, 1845, ch. 87, Sec. 1, 2, 1845 Acts of N.C. 124 made sale or delivery of firearms to slaves forbidden. (GLJ, p. 337)

1847 Florida Slave and free black homes searched for guns for confiscation. Act of Jan. 6, 1847, ch. 87 Sec. 11, 1846 Fla. Laws 42, 44 provided that white citizen patrols might search the homes of blacks, both free and slave and confiscate arms held therein. ( Id. p. 338)

1848 Race-based gun ban upheld because free blacks "not citizens." In Cooper v. Savannah, 4 Ga. 68, 72 (1848), the Georgia Supreme Court ruled "free persons of color have never been recognized here as citizens; they are not entitled to bear arms, vote for members of the legislature, or to hold any civil office." (GMU CR LJ, p. 70)

1852 Mississippi Race-based complete gun ban. Act of Mar. 15, 1852, ch. 206, 1852 Laws of Miss. 328 forbade ownership of firearms by both free blacks and slaves. (JCLC NWU, p. 797)

1857 High Court upholds slavery since blacks "not citizens." In Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 (19 How.) 393 (1857), Chief Justice Taney argued if members of the African race were "citizens" they would be exempt from the special "police regulations" applicable to them. "It would give to persons of the negro race…full liberty of speech…to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went." ( Id. p. 417) U.S. Supreme Court held that descendants of Africans who were imported into this country and sold as slaves were not included nor intended to be included under the word "citizens" in the Constitution, whether emancipated or not, and remained without rights or privileges except such as those which the government might grant them, thereby upholding slavery. Also held that a slave did not become free when taken into a free state; that Congress cannot bar slavery in any territory; and that blacks could not be citizens.


1860 Complete gun ban for slaves. Act of Dec. 19, 1860, no. 64, Sec. 1, 1860 Acts of Ga. 561 forbade sale or delivery of firearms to slaves. (GLJ, p. 337)


1861 Civil War begins.

1861 Florida Slave and free black homes searched for guns for confiscation. Act of Dec. 17, 1861, ch. 1291, Sec. 11, 1861 Fla. Laws 38, 40 provided once again that white citizen patrols might search the homes of blacks, both free and slave, and confiscate arms held therein. ( Id. p. 338)

1863 Emancipation Proclamation -- President Lincoln issued proclamation "freeing all slaves in areas still in rebellion."


1865 Mississippi Blacks require police approval to own guns, unless in military. Mississippi Statute of 1865 prohibited blacks, not in the military "and not licensed so to do by the board of police of his or her county" from keeping or carrying "fire-arms of any kind, or any ammunition, dirk or bowie knife." [Reprinted in 1 Documentary History of Reconstruction: Political, Military, Social, Religious, Educational and Industrial, 1865 to the Present Time, p. 291, and (Walter L. Fleming, ed., 1960.)] (GLJ, p. 344)

1865 Louisiana Blacks require police and employer approval to own guns, unless serving in military. Louisiana Statute of 1865 prohibited blacks, not in the military service, from "carrying fire-arms, or any kind of weapons…without the special permission of his employers, approved and indorsed by the nearest and most convenient chief of patrol." (Fleming, p. 280)(GLJ, p. 344)

1865 Civil War ends May 26.

[BrazenMuse]

Very interesting stuff...indeed. Thank you!

[The Buddy Love Show]

There is a lot more post 1865

shek it here:

http://www.blackmanwithagun.com/site/dbpage.asp?page_id=140000780&sec_id=140000845

[The Buddy Love Show]

Very interesting stuff...indeed. Thank you!

These are the citations that cracked me the fuck up when i first read the article:

1791 2nd Amendment to the Constitution ratified. Reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State , the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

1792 Blacks excluded from the militia, i.e. law-abiding males thus instilled with the right to own guns. Uniform Militia Act of 1792 "called for the enrollment of every free, able-bodied white male citizen between the ages of eighteen and forty-five" to be in the militia, and specified that every militia member was to "provide himself with a musket or firelock, a bayonet, and ammunition." [1 Stat. 271 (Georgetown Law Journal, Vol. 80, No. 2, "The Second Amendment: Toward an Afro-Americanist Reconsideration," Robert Cottrol and Raymond Diamond, 1991, p. 331)]

[BrazenMuse]

These are the citations that cracked me the fuck up when i first read the article:

1791 2nd Amendment to the Constitution ratified. Reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State , the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

1792 Blacks excluded from the militia, i.e. law-abiding males thus instilled with the right to own guns. Uniform Militia Act of 1792 "called for the enrollment of every free, able-bodied white male citizen between the ages of eighteen and forty-five" to be in the militia, and specified that every militia member was to "provide himself with a musket or firelock, a bayonet, and ammunition." [1 Stat. 271 (Georgetown Law Journal, Vol. 80, No. 2, "The Second Amendment: Toward an Afro-Americanist Reconsideration," Robert Cottrol and Raymond Diamond, 1991, p. 331)]

eeeek!

Where's that sig from?

[The Buddy Love Show]

I'm not crazy, or angry, i'm just overly informed...

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g122/mark_blagrove/rd0401.jpg

[Moksha]

Where's that sig from?

Google is your friend.

[The Buddy Love Show]

eeeek!

Where's that sig from?

from that timeline....

the law is a useful tool as well

[BrazenMuse]

I'm not crazy, or angry, i'm just overly informed...

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g122/mark_blagrove/rd0401.jpg

It was either aristotle or socrates who advised never teaching fine language to the slave because it would render them unfit for slavery...

:rofl:

[BrazenMuse]

Google is your friend.

why bother when I could just ask him?

[The Buddy Love Show]

ohhhh, my signature

LOL

I substituted another name for Nyarlahotep (Black Man)...part of my transition...although William Wilson ( not William Wilson ) has many similiar features

[The Buddy Love Show]

http://mythostomes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=

I first embarked on serious reading of The Old Ones while watching, of all things, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy (education is where you seek it - if u r open)

Nyarlathotep... the crawling chaos... I am the last... I will tell the audient void....



I do not recall distinctly when it began, but it was months ago. The general tension was horrible. To a season of political and social upheaval was added a strange and brooding apprehension of hideous physical danger; a danger widespread and all-embracing, such a danger as may be imagined only in the most terrible phantasms of the night. I recall that the people went about with pale and worried faces, and whispered warnings and prophecies which no one dared consciously repeat or acknowledge to himself that he had heard. A sense of monstrous guilt was upon the land, and out of the abysses between the stars swept chill currents that made men shiver in dark and lonely places. There was a daemoniac alteration in the sequence of the seasons — the autumn heat lingered fearsomely, and everyone felt that the world and perhaps the universe had passed from the control of known gods or forces to that of gods or forces which were unknown.


And it was then that Nyarlathotep came out of Egypt. Who he was, none could tell, but he was of the old native blood and looked like a Pharaoh. The fellahin knelt when they saw him, yet could not say why. He said he had risen up out of the blackness of twenty-seven centuries, and that he had heard messages from places not on this planet. Into the lands of civilisation came Nyarlathotep, swarthy, slender, and sinister, always buying strange instruments of glass and metal and combining them into instruments yet stranger. He spoke much of the sciences – of electricity and psychology — and gave exhibitions of power which sent his spectators away speechless, yet which swelled his fame to exceeding magnitude. Men advised one another to see Nyarlathotep, and shuddered. And where Nyarlathotep went, rest vanished; for the small hours were rent with the screams of nightmare. Never before had the screams of nightmare been such a public problem; now the wise men almost wished they could forbid sleep in the small hours, that the shrieks of cities might less horribly disturb the pale, pitying moon as it glimmered on green waters gliding under bridges, and old steeples crumbling against a sickly sky.


I remember when Nyarlathotep came to my city — the great, the old, the terrible city of unnumbered crimes. My friend had told me of him, and of the impelling fascination and allurement of his revelations, and I burned with eagerness to explore his uttermost mysteries. My friend said they were horrible and impressive beyond my most fevered imaginings; and what was thrown on a screen in the darkened room prophesied things none but Nyarlathotep dared prophesy, and in the sputter of his sparks there was taken from men that which had never been taken before yet which shewed only in the eyes. And I heard it hinted abroad that those who knew Nyarlathotep looked on sights which others saw not.

It was in the hot autumn that I went through the night with the restless crowds to see Nyarlathotep; through the stifling night and up the endless stairs into the choking room. And shadowed on a screen, I saw hooded forms amidst ruins, and yellow evil faces peering from behind fallen monuments. And I saw the world battling against blackness; against the waves of destruction from ultimate space; whirling, churning, struggling around the dimming, cooling sun. Then the sparks played amazingly around the heads of the spectators, and hair stood up on end whilst shadows more grotesque than I can tell came out and squatted on the heads. And when I, who was colder and more scientific than the rest, mumbled a trembling protest about "imposture" and "static electricity," Nyarlathotep drove us all out, down the dizzy stairs into the damp, hot, deserted midnight streets. I screamed aloud that I was not afraid; that I never could be afraid; and others screamed with me for solace. We swore to one another that the city was exactly the same, and still alive; and when the electric lights began to fade we cursed the company over and over again, and laughed at the queer faces we made.

I believe we felt something coming down from the greenish moon, for when we began to depend on its light we drifted into curious involuntary marching formations and seemed to know our destinations though we dared not think of them. Once we looked at the pavement and found the blocks loose and displaced by grass, with scarce a line of rusted metal to shew where the tramways had run. And again we saw a tram-car, lone, windowless, dilapidated, and almost on its side. When we gazed around the horizon, we could not find the third tower by the river, and noticed that the silhouette of the second tower was ragged at the top. Then we split up into narrow columns, each of which seemed drawn in a different direction. One disappeared in a narrow alley to the left, leaving only the echo of a shocking moan. Another filed down a weed-choked subway entrance, howling with a laughter that was mad. My own column was sucked toward the open country, and presently I felt a chill which was not of the hot autumn; for as we stalked out on the dark moor, we beheld around us the hellish moon-glitter of evil snows. Trackless, inexplicable snows, swept asunder in one direction only, where lay a gulf all the blacker for its glittering walls. The column seemed very thin indeed as it plodded dreamily into the gulf. I lingered behind, for the black rift in the green-litten snow was frightful, and I thought I had heard the reverberations of a disquieting wail as my companions vanished; but my power to linger was slight. As if beckoned by those who had gone before, I half-floated between the titanic snowdrifts, quivering and afraid, into the sightless vortex of the unimaginable.


Screamingly sentient, dumbly delirious, only the gods that were can tell. A sickened, sensitive shadow writhing in hands that are not hands, and whirled blindly past ghastly midnights of rotting creation, corpses of dead worlds with sores that were cities, charnel winds that brush the pallid stars and make them flicker low. Beyond the worlds vague ghosts of monstrous things; half-seen columns of unsanctified temples that rest on nameless rocks beneath space and reach up to dizzy vacua above the spheres of light and darkness. And through this revolting graveyard of the universe the muffled, maddening beating of drums, and thin, monotonous whine of blasphemous flutes from inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond Time; the detestable pounding and piping whereunto dance slowly, awkwardly, and absurdly the gigantic, tenebrous ultimate gods — the blind, voiceless, mindless gargoyles whose soul is Nyarlathotep.

[BrazenMuse]

:eek:

Ever read Brian Stableford? or Tanith Lee? You might like.

[The Buddy Love Show]

:eek:

Ever read Brian Stableford? or Tanith Lee? You might like.

No I havent, but will take a look. I have seen Tanith Lee on the shelves but havent looked deeper

I do see that Stableford has translated a book on The Wandering Jew (thats very Nyarlathotep character aka The Walking Man, The Crawling Chaos, Randall Flagg...I am completely fascinated by this character and have been for over 30 years...my avatar - "The Magus", was molded by Starlins "The In-Betweener")


a complete nerd, yams I

[BrazenMuse]

No I havent, but will take a look. I have seen Tanith Lee on the shelves but havent looked deeper

I do see that Stableford has translated a book on The Wandering Jew (thats very Nyarlathotep character aka The Walking Man, The Crawling Chaos, Randall Flagg...I am completely fascinated by this character and have been for over 30 years...my avatar - "The Magus", was molded by Starlins "The In-Betweener")


a complete nerd, yams I

Stableford's Werewolves of London is an interesting one...he has others in that vein...

Depends on which Tanith Lee...her output can be a bit uneven. Some of her fantasy can't be beaten however...The Storm Lord comes to mind...has my fave line in it: describing the slave deck of a trireme as they open the hatch..."it was the anus of despair" - that hit me so hard that I had to stop reading for a while...her style is hallucenogenicly vivid...

[The Buddy Love Show]

Depends on which Tanith Lee...her output can be a bit uneven. Some of her fantasy can't be beaten however...The Storm Lord comes to mind...has my fave line in it: describing the slave deck of a trireme as they open the hatch..."it was the anus of despair" - that hit me so hard that I had to stop reading for a while...her style is hallucenogenicly vivid...

"the anus of despair"!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT is some DEEP shit

[Sal Paradise]

I grew up with guns around. Mainly rifles and one 22. pistol. But I grew up off the grid in the country. I don't own any, but am glad that I know how to handle, load, aim and fire a gun. I also know how to ride a horse. Don't know if I'll ever utalize either of these skills though. Especially in my urbane existance.

[jcapeverde]

http://faculty.washington.edu/gregoryj/pnwlabor/2-28-69%20cr2.jpg

[The Buddy Love Show]

http://faculty.washington.edu/gregoryj/pnwlabor/2-28-69%20cr2.jpg

yesterdays mathematics needs to be taught today

thats a great picture

[BrazenMuse]

"the anus of despair"!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT is some DEEP shit

:icon_rofl:
In soooo many ways.
But that image hits how many senses? The character was about to be forced down there. It turned my stomach...so vivid and in so few words...ewwwwwww!!!!

I've given her works to painters who were blocked and had them come back ranting about her, with new canvasses painted and more on the way...she's that crazy...trust.

[HOUSE MIKE FEVA]

12 Gauge, 22 Rifle and the pocket 25...Locked and Loaded!

[BrazenMuse]

12 Gauge, 22 Rifle and the pocket 25...Locked and Loaded!

:scared:Not kept loaded in the house, surely!!!
But I hear you!

[Terry James]

:scared:Not kept loaded in the house, surely!!!
But I hear you!

loaded wit 1 in da chamber

[BrazenMuse]

loaded wit 1 in da chamber Hope the ammo is nice and fresh!!!

[Terry James]

Hope the ammo is nice and fresh!!!


lol probably not....Hollow pts been in there for a minute. I better refresh...

[BrazenMuse]

lol probably not....Hollow pts been in there for a minute. I better refresh...
Indeed. Refresh and clean them things...you'd be amazed where dust will get...damp ammo is a bad thing.

[D J 1 3 8]

ever needed a gun real bad but didn't have one?
shit takes about 15 minutes tops, cuz everybody knows somebody with a gun.

[BrazenMuse]

ever needed a gun real bad but didn't have one?
shit takes about 15 minutes tops, cuz everybody knows somebody with a gun.:eek: