FAO Beattyful

[drilla]

quick question.... no need to dive into this or blow up a race thing but i just wanted to know one thing if you would like to answer....

i saw your post on biggie...followed your links to your myspace page cuz i was interested in your thoughts... i saw this:

http://a277.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00151/67/27/151007276_l.jpg


if you saw a picture with a black dude sitting in a chair and two white girls telling him to "shut the fuck up, black boy"... how would that make you feel inside? how would it make it feel about the person that is displaying such an image?

thanks.

[Sal Paradise]

That picture cracks me up every time I see it. I got nothing but Love for Julia, she can tell me to STFU anytime. I'm sure that anytime she would I;d have it coming.

[drilla]

word word. im sure shes cool if you say...

but that picture makes me want to throw up. reminds me of real ill shit...

[chldfknungrnd764]

It's only humor, chill out!:icon_rofl:

[JMJ]

It's only humor, chill out!:icon_rofl:

I wonder if it would still be "humor" if it was portrayed the other way around? Do you think there would be big belly laughs all around? Would you "chill out"?......JMJ :wink:

[drop]

It's only humor, chill out!:icon_rofl:

i always wondered about racial humor
what makes something funny
what makes something raciest

[chldfknungrnd764]

I wonder if it would still be "humor" if it was portrayed the other way around? Do you think there would be big belly laughs all around? Would you "chill out"?......JMJ :wink:

You got a point.

What is defined as crossing the line?

[JMJ]

You got a point.

What is defined as crossing the line?

I think there's a double standard, not that any of it is acceptable......JMJ

[Brut by Faberge]

What reminds me of some ill shit is you calling her out on here. Why not send her a PM on MySpace? WTF?

[chldfknungrnd764]

What reminds me of some ill shit is you calling her out on here. Why not send her a PM on MySpace? WTF?

Ask the thread starter.

I still think the pic is funny!:biglaugha:

[drilla]

What reminds me of some ill shit is you calling her out on here. Why not send her a PM on MySpace? WTF?

because sometimes people need to be checked and today i felt like doing it. im not saying i know everything and im not saying i havent had to be called out before...but what i am sayin is this: if we dont try to break down the glue that is keeping racism alive, then it will always be. from the responses i see it isnt totally clear that this picture is promoting negativity.

to anyone that finds this funny:

think about what i wrote and if you find the opposite situation funny or the above picture funny i highly suggest you do research....actually fuck it, just start a thread on this board about it and ask about all the ill shit that happens to people because of racism.... you'll get alot of good information that may help you understand what i am talking about.

lastly, if you don't find the above picture racist or negative and you can't even come close to wrapping your head around that idea because of some other thought that is coming in the way then let me just tell you, it is racist and it is negative.

peace.

[Brut by Faberge]

Regardless of your personal feelings about the photo, what did Beattyful do to deserve having her MySpace avatar put up for scrutiny on DHP, completely removed from its original context.

An you think that the best way to address your feelings is to publicly deride her and place her judgment up for scrutiny, without first privately asking her about the intent and reason behind using the photo of her avatar? Really? That seems okay to you?

Sorry, the whole, "I'ma put so n so on blast!" thing is old and tired to me. Imagine if you went to a job and your boss chewed you out during staff meetings...

[BrazenMuse]

Regardless of your personal feelings about the photo, what did Beattyful do to deserve having her MySpace avatar put up for scrutiny on DHP, completely removed from its original context.

An you think that the best way to address your feelings is to publicly deride her and place her judgment up for scrutiny, without first privately asking her about the intent and reason behind using the photo of her avatar? Really? That seems okay to you?

Sorry, the whole, "I'ma put so n so on blast!" thing is old and tired to me. Imagine if you went to a job and your boss chewed you out during staff meetings...
Applause! Applause.

There are ways to handle business...don't we have enough drama around here already? Next thing you know, someone'll call the freakin' I-Team and start that mess up. The PM would have been far more polite and certainly a little less intrusive than all that. I'll give you that putting a Myspace link in gives you a license to go look...but what's up with the blast? If indeed your intention is consciousness raising, you will be poorly served by being combative.

[drilla]

Regardless of your personal feelings about the photo, what did Beattyful do to deserve having her MySpace avatar put up for scrutiny on DHP, completely removed from its original context.

An you think that the best way to address your feelings is to publicly deride her and place her judgment up for scrutiny, without first privately asking her about the intent and reason behind using the photo of her avatar? Really? That seems okay to you?

Sorry, the whole, "I'ma put so n so on blast!" thing is old and tired to me. Imagine if you went to a job and your boss chewed you out during staff meetings...

yes, it seems completely fine to me to do what i did. if you have a problem with that, dont talk with me. thanks.

i dont have a boss. i dont do staff meetings....

[Brut by Faberge]

Hilarious that the person who started a thread to flame someone NOW advocates keeping ones mouth shut in the face of disapproval. You seriously can't make this shit up. LOL

[drilla]

Hilarious that the person who started a thread to flame someone NOW advocates keeping ones mouth shut in the face of disapproval. You seriously can't make this shit up. LOL

lose the hate, dolly. i wasnt trying to flame anyone.

the picture is very negative and if you cant take the time to address this, then leave the thread. i dont care what you think of me. i asked you to not talk with me because you obviously have a problem with how i do things. so just step off...it doesnt matter to me. do you get that? dont accuse me of anything...you dont me.

im just trying to help the world here... if you wanna help, then shut the fuck up. :)

[Shalewa]

The framing of the initial question brought "off-board" issues onto the board in a direct and personal way that at least violates the spirit of the "no personal beefs" rule.

I am not closing the thread or timing anyone out. This thread has the potential to offer the opportunity to open communication around issues of race, gender, privilege and bigotry. It is however slipping in the direction of a non-productive free for all. Be mindful of tone and the posting guidelines.

[BrazenMuse]

<!-- / message -->If indeed your intention is consciousness raising,

you will be poorly served by being combative. <!-- sig -->

[D J 1 3 8]

http://a277.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00151/67/27/151007276_l.jpg

I think it's kinda funny.

I am able to chuckle at mildly racist jokes (aimed at both whites and blacks and whoever) if I can personally brush them off as relatively harmless. A very subjective criteria, obviously. Basically, it takes a helluva lot to offend me, and this ain't even in the ballpark.

I would put this image above in the relatively harmless category, along with, for example, all those GIFs of the Heineken looter in Katrina, which I would guess many DHPers would consider offensive.

Also, given the rampant racist humor on that other board you once frequented, I am surprised something like this would bug you so much.

[Brut by Faberge]

lose the hate, dolly. i wasnt trying to flame anyone.

the picture is very negative and if you cant take the time to address this, then leave the thread. i dont care what you think of me. i asked you to not talk with me because you obviously have a problem with how i do things. so just step off...it doesnt matter to me. do you get that? dont accuse me of anything...you dont me.

im just trying to help the world here... if you wanna help, then shut the fuck up. :)

LOL @ trying to help the world. You want to help the world, how about you volunteer at a women's shelter, do some food drives, become a foster parent...

Coming onto a message board and whining about an avatar, and getting nasty about it when someone disagrees with your methods is the definition of retrograde, as Brazen pointed out.

The irony is that with the tone and angle you have chosen, you are well on the path to providing a likely backdrop for the photo of which you so vehemently disapprove.

[KBig]

take what Im about to say anyway u want...


But Julia is about the coolest mofo, those who know?.. KNOW!

now... white folk kill me when they are uncomfortable with racially charged issues.

First this is not an issue- its HER myspace Avatar, not her DHP avatar. That is her PERSONAL reference and as far as Im concerned her personal environment needs not to be explained, atoned-for, repackaged or any other "re-scripting" to make a lil white boy who thinks he got flavor ... comfortable. She aint got to splain shyt. Who the phucc are you that she should explain that avatar. Your white privilegde and insecurities are showing.

yall get comfortable with the black culture (more hipper than hip-hop) then because you'r uncomfotable with a *white boy kiss my beattiful black azz avatar, want her to explain why as a black women she has a racially charge (70's-blackspoitation'esque) avatar.

Amazing that black folk are held responsible for a lil white boy's cultural insecurity.

WE dont owe you shit.

So as Flutie's avatar sez.....

[Brut by Faberge]

take what Im about to say anyway u want...


But Julia is about the coolest mofo, those who know?.. KNOW!

now... white folk kill me when they are uncomfortable with racially charged issues.

First this is not an issue- its HER myspace Avatar, not her DHP avatar. That is her PERSONAL reference and as far as Im concerned her personal environment needs not to be explained, atoned-for, repackaged or any other "re-scripting" to make a lil white boy who thinks he got flavor ... comfortable. She aint got to splain shyt. Who the phucc are you that she should explain that avatar. Your white privilegde and insecurities are showing.

yall get comfortable with the black culture (more hipper than hip-hop) then because you'r uncomfotable with a *white boy kiss my beattiful black azz avatar, want her to explain why as a black women she has a racially charge (70's-blackspoitation'esque) avatar.

Amazing that black folk are held responsible for a lil white boy's cultural insecurity.

WE dont owe you shit.

So as Flutie's avatar sez.....

SKAPOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!

[BrazenMuse]

On the one hand, I am not entirely comfortable with that picture either, I remember that one and a gif of a little kid screaming "That's Racist!" being on DHP before. On the other hand, while this would not be my choice of how to let off steam or how to reflect and deflect the BS that I deal with as a person of color...I can clearly see how standing the typical image on its head can be humorous...

Below are a bunch of things that come from an article I use for classes.

These are things observed by a woman of European descent as she was thinking about male privilege. They are things that a person of European descent commonly does not need to worry about and most especially never needs to think about if they are male. This is the reality that people of color in America live with. Think about the tension that any one of them can create in the individual mind. Know that people of color commonly have higher stress levels than anyone in the surrounding geographic area...and that this is usually attributed at least partly to dealing with racism on a daily basis. The fantasy of turning that image on its head twice (not only is the person at the desk European-American, but male too...and TRUST, gender is not coincidental here) looks pretty darned good from the perspective of the oppressed.

Consciousness raising by being combative is just plain old...well... combative. It doesn't move anything anywhere...simply saying that you are not comfortable with the image and inviting discussion could have been so much more interesting and useful.

I am, in fact, glad you brought it up. So think about the list below and think about the multivalent functions of humor... and find another way to raise the issue.

From the Invisible Knapsack of White Privilege...see This Thread (http://deephousepage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140327)

These seemed like interesting ones to start with, remembering that the person writing it is woman of European descent:

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.


There's a great opportunity to unpack a great many interesting issues here...in civil conversation.

[Chris Conrad]

take what Im about to say anyway u want...


But Julia is about the coolest mofo, those who know?.. KNOW!

now... white folk kill me when they are uncomfortable with racially charged issues.

First this is not an issue- its HER myspace Avatar, not her DHP avatar. That is her PERSONAL reference and as far as Im concerned her personal environment needs not to be explained, atoned-for, repackaged or any other "re-scripting" to make a lil white boy who thinks he got flavor ... comfortable. She aint got to splain shyt. Who the phucc are you that she should explain that avatar. Your white privilegde and insecurities are showing.

yall get comfortable with the black culture (more hipper than hip-hop) then because you'r uncomfotable with a *white boy kiss my beattiful black azz avatar, want her to explain why as a black women she has a racially charge (70's-blackspoitation'esque) avatar.

Amazing that black folk are held responsible for a lil white boy's cultural insecurity.

WE dont owe you shit.

So as Flutie's avatar sez.....

myspace is a personal environment? last time i checked anyone can see it and it has gotten many many people in trouble at school, home and with their jobs fro posting up their 'personal' references...

[Chris Conrad]

i think drilla and others have proved their point about the double standard as is seen by some of the posts...

[KBig]

On the one hand, I am not entirely comfortable with that picture either, I remember that one and a gif of a little kid screaming "That's Racist!" being on DHP before. On the other hand, while this would not be my choice of how to let off steam or how to reflect and deflect the BS that I deal with as a person of color...I can clearly see how standing the typical image on its head can be humorous...

Below are a bunch of things that come from an article I use for classes.

These are things observed by a woman of European descent as she was thinking about male privilege. They are things that a person of European descent commonly does not need to worry about and most especially never needs to think about if they are male. This is the reality that people of color in America live with. Think about the tension that any one of them can create in the individual mind. Know that people of color commonly have higher stress levels than anyone in the surrounding geographic area...and that this is usually attributed at least partly to dealing with racism on a daily basis. The fantasy of turning that image on its head twice (not only is the person at the desk European-American, but male too...and TRUST, gender is not coincidental here) looks pretty darned good from the perspective of the oppressed.

Consciousness raising by being combative is just plain old...well... combative. It doesn't move anything anywhere...simply saying that you are not comfortable with the image and inviting discussion could have been so much more interesting and useful.

I am, in fact, glad you brought it up. So think about the list below and think about the multivalent functions of humor... and find another way to raise the issue.

From the Invisible Knapsack of White Privilege...see This Thread (http://deephousepage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140327)

These seemed like interesting ones to start with, remembering that the person writing it is woman of European descent:

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.


There's a great opportunity to unpack a great many interesting issues here...in civil conversation.

I feel ya Mew... but thats her personal choice PERIOD, his requirement and entitlement position is amazing and quite telling. He dayum sure aint pulling up one of the big scrong field kneegrows here on dhp and asking them "Yo, man ... yada yada yada" his lil alabaster masculinity was scorched when viewed her myspace.
Was prolly trolling her page for some black puzzy any way!

If you know Jules, and her profession you would understand that avatar. Its the epitome of who the phucc she is ... and what she aint. but you wont get that from the avatar only. Kills me when WE black women are required to explain to some hip white boy and soothe his discomfort.
fuck him and his discomfort. I hope she dont 'splain shit.
Just take the open-handed slap in the mouth from a sexy black siren.
and have a coke and'a smile.

yeah its that kinda muthaphuccing monday.

And to charge black folks with being racist is a hole-nuva bag of white marbles.


Moo deez.

[Chris Conrad]

is 'privilege' the new catch word? been seeing that one used a lot lately...did i miss a tv show or celebrity using it lately? especially when used with the term 'white privilege'...

[kara]

i think drilla and others have proved their point about the double standard as is seen by some of the posts...

nice avatar chris. :)

[Chris Conrad]

nice avatar chris. :)

i'm waiting for commentary on it...

[KBig]

i'm waiting for commentary on it...


it would only be up for debate if you had 36 DD's and/or checked the African American box on applications....

[The Crazy Life That Is Alarick T]

All I can say is that I know Julia personally and she is one of the kindest and coolest people I have ever met. I know for a fact that she isn't a racist person, due to her having so many friends that are from all over the continent.

But, I could see where someone who doesn't know her personally or don't get the inside joke of why she posted that avatar would get offended. If it were flipped and it was one black boy and 2 whites girls it would have a different effect (of coarse if I was not knowing of the meaning behind the posting of the avatar). For that reason I would have pm'ed her first though to find out what was the meaning behind it. But he did it the way he felt he had to.

[KBig]

All I can say is that I know Julia personally and she is one of the kindest and coolest people I have ever met. I know for a fact that she isn't a racist person, due to her having so many friends that are from all over the continent.

But, I could see where someone who doesn't know her personally or don't get the inside joke of why she posted that avatar would get offended. If it were flipped and it was one black boy and 2 whites girls it would have a different effect (of coarse if I was not knowing of the meaning behind the posting of the avatar). For that reason I would have pm'ed her first though to find out what was the meaning behind it. But he did it the way he felt he had to.


Why does she have to explain anything HERE about a personal webpage on another site? He didnt ask her personally he asked her on a popular music website; so he really wasnt interested in an answer to his question, nor soothing of his discomfort... get preperation H!

she shouldnt be required to ANSWER shyt! Chris's "kill Whitey" doesnt bother me, I actually think its funny considering the time frame in which he made "it" his avatar.

And considering he was an active member of the "quo" its even more insulting and disingenuous. Lil white boy got flustered and wants the big bad black bitch to 'splain...

Black Folks make racially charged jokes too *clutch da pearls*
(and by the way it isnt racist its racial-centric) ... DEAL WITH IT!

[Brut by Faberge]

If it were flipped and it was one black boy and 2 whites girls it would have a different effect (of coarse if I was not knowing of the meaning behind the posting of the avatar).

Thing is, IMO it's not that simple to just reverse the color scheme and make a 1 for 1 comparison. There is a social and historical context that the original photo and caption dwell in, such that if it flipped into opposite-mode, it would be absurd on top of unfunny. There is also an historical context behind black men being called "boy" that simply is not a part of the white american male's reality.

[The Crazy Life That Is Alarick T]

Why does she have to explain anything HERE about a personal webpage on another site? He didnt ask her personally he asked her on a popular music website; so he really wasnt interested in an answer to his question, nor soothing of his discomfort... get preperation H!

she shouldnt be required to ANSWER shyt! Chris's "kill Whitey" doesnt bother me, I actually think its funny considering the time frame in which he made "it" his avatar.

And considering he was an active member of the "quo" its even more insulting and disingenuous. Lil white boy got flustered and wants the big bad black bitch to 'splain...

Black Folks make racially charged jokes too *clutch da pearls*
(and by the way it isnt racist its racial-centric) ... DEAL WITH IT!

Hehehehehe yeah we know Julia personally so we know she is the furthest thing from being a racist. I think if he knew her and the meaning behind the avatar, it wouldn't be an issue.

[BrazenMuse]

Thing is, IMO it's not that simple to just reverse the color scheme and make a 1 for 1 comparison. There is a social and historical context that the original photo and caption dwell in, such that if it flipped into opposite-mode, it would be absurd on top of unfunny. There is also an historical context behind black men being called "boy" that simply is not a part of the white american male's reality.

Aha!! Indeed there is a context ... does calling down such an image as racist have the effect of trying to shut down rather than opening it up?

[The Crazy Life That Is Alarick T]

Thing is, IMO it's not that simple to just reverse the color scheme and make a 1 for 1 comparison. There is a social and historical context that the original photo and caption dwell in, such that if it flipped into opposite-mode, it would be absurd on top of unfunny. There is also an historical context behind black men being called "boy" that simply is not a part of the white american male's reality.

Exactly, that's is why I stated "the meaning behind the avatar".

[KBig]

as well as the "afro'ed" statue'esque Blackspoitation like theme to it.

Like I said... its not about race reversal as it as "role" reversal.

but again ... we must be careful with asking someone to justify a personal adage just because you dont know them and your baby testosterone feelings are bruised.

This isnt the avatar for a business that she has, or her job its PERSONAL regardless of where it is displayed.

If he really wanted to know then he would have reached out to her PERSONALLY...but then thats not really what its all about, now is it?

shyt next thing you know PETA will be contacting me asking ... What the phucc is it about the cows,Kels why dey gotta be striping and shyt?
U gat some splaining to do you cowprinted heffa!

wtf man?

he's full of shyt and so is his request of her.

I hope she never answers! lol

[Brut by Faberge]

Exactly, that's is why I stated "the meaning behind the avatar".

We agree on that bro and that is the main reason why I feel Julia should have been addressed one on one rather than get called out that way.

[The Crazy Life That Is Alarick T]

shyt next thing you know PETA will be contacting me asking ... What the phucc is it about the cows,Kels why dey gotta be striping and shyt?
U gat some splaining to do you cowprinted heffa!


Hahahahahahahahaha...:rofl5:

[The Crazy Life That Is Alarick T]

We agree on that bro and that is the main reason why I feel Julia should have been addressed one on one rather than get called out that way.

Ditto again. That's why I said I would have pm'ed her first.

[Brut by Faberge]

Aha!! Indeed there is a context ... does calling down such an image as racist have the effect of trying to shut down rather than opening it up?

It does indeed shut it down IMO.

I could list a number of scenarios and phenomena that can be read into the image, but for our purposes, the image wasn't really what was being laid on the examining table from jump, Beattyful's character WAS, and that's what was messed up.

[Brut by Faberge]

Where the fuck is Beattyful anyway?

[The Crazy Life That Is Alarick T]

:rofl5:

[Sal Paradise]

I think your reaching with regards to his intent. While I found his critique off the mark, I think your savoring a piece of steak right now. Drilla may be a sensative little flower but I don't think he was blasting Julia with racial intention. I think he opened her myspace and he had an emotional reaction. A reaction that you or I wouldn't have , but so what. He did.

And that is all long over as he is the only one being blasted, albiet rightly so.

[Brut by Faberge]

I think your reaching with regards to his intent. While I found his critique off the mark, I think your savoring a piece of steak right now. Drilla may be a sensative little flower but I don't think he was blasting Julia with racial intention. I think he opened her myspace and he had an emotional reaction. A reaction that you or I wouldn't have , but so what. He did.

And that is all long over as he is the only one being blasted, albiet rightly so.

I feel you on that, Sal. I'm done.

[BrazenMuse]

I think your reaching with regards to his intent. While I found his critique off the mark, I think your savoring a piece of steak right now. Drilla may be a sensative little flower but I don't think he was blasting Julia with racial intention. I think he opened her myspace and he had an emotional reaction. A reaction that you or I wouldn't have , but so what. He did.

And that is all long over as he is the only one being blasted, albiet rightly so.

agreed.

[Bill Blake]

Think ‘business setting’ and add it all up.

Remember that song by the country artist ‘take this job and shove it’?

[drilla]

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/4880/subb1bc7.jpg

[drilla]

kinda makes ya sad inside.....doesnt it?

[Bill Blake]

kinda makes ya sad inside.....doesnt it?

I really hope this is all some 'ploy' more than serious, or got a uppidity screw loose.

[drilla]

The framing of the initial question brought "off-board" issues onto the board in a direct and personal way that at least violates the spirit of the "no personal beefs" rule.

I am not closing the thread or timing anyone out. This thread has the potential to offer the opportunity to open communication around issues of race, gender, privilege and bigotry. It is however slipping in the direction of a non-productive free for all. Be mindful of tone and the posting guidelines.

apologies. no disrespect meant. and i totally dont have a personal beef with this girl....

ive said and done things wrong in life in which i once thought was ok due to ignorance...ive learned. we are always learning.....and today i felt like teaching. thats all this is about. thank you

[Moksha]

Her Myspace page is in her profile on THIS board. He was lead there from a thread on THIS board. Seems fair game as far as a topic to me.

I agree with what somebody wrote earlier... you can't really use the "if roles were reversed" technique to prove anything. It makes situations lack context (history, social stuff, etc.)

The pic doesn't bother me.

[Moksha]

Oh, and IMO... this thread was very respectful and could have led to a good discussion til Brut by Faberge and Kbig had to get all combatitive and rude.

[BHouse]

PSA: Drilla is not a member of DHP I - Team. That is all.

[KBig]

Oh, and IMO... this thread was very respectful and could have led to a good discussion til Brut by Faberge and Kbig had to get all combatitive and rude.


STFU

appropo...well placed... well timed....


I think Les would give this STFU dismount a 9.58, shiddd MaryLouRetto couldnt even stick this landing....

[BHouse]

:lol:

[AK]

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/4880/subb1bc7.jpg

Naaah, didn't work. Yours is funny, too.

[jojaujae3]

Naaah, didn't work. Yours is funny, too.
:icon_rofl::icon_rofl::icon_rofl:
I just got 1 thing to say, CAN WE ALL GET ALONG!!!:rofl5:

[Beattyful]

hey all!!!

imagine my surprise, after a long weekend out of work and away from the computer, logging on to DHP and finding out that my myspace avatar has sparked a hot discussion on race and gender for the past 3 days! drilla, i finally got some DHP street cred thanks to you!! :rofl:

first off, as a BLACK WOMAN who happens to have a white mother (yes, drilla... in a way, i'm white like you too!!!), i have had some of these same conversations with my family members. dialogue on oppression and its manifestation within society and culture is healthy to have - at least, when in the spirit of learning and finding ways to work together to undo oppression based on race, gender identity, ability, class and sexual orientation. however drilla, i did find your thread to be rather combative and not intended to spark a healthy dialogue. and, you STILL haven't PM'd my azz.

the idea of a white man, like drilla, schooling a black woman, like me, on racism is not only laughable, but borderline offensive. please don't EVER attempt to school a person of color on what racism is or what it looks like. believe me, drilla, we know more than you will EVER know. TRUST.

in my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes white people often make is their attempt to have a franchise on "comfort." god forbid a person of color says or does anything to make white people feel uncomfortable. this often means there can be no discussion of race and no challenge to their privilege, which means no challenge to their power. brazen posed the question earlier in this thread: "does calling out such an image as racist have the effect of trying to shut down discussion rather than opening it up?" i say, YES!!!! especially given the fact that there is a historical context that underlies this political pic that was completely disregarded (once again, white privilege in play).

while i don't feel like i have to explain the avatar i used on my myspace page, i will say that i have always seen the STFU avatar as a socio-political commentary on the institutional racism that is often played out along lines of gender in the workplace. there is no coincidence that the 2 people doing the STFU'ing are black WOMEN - who have traditionally and historically been relegated to positions of service under white MEN in the workplace no matter what their education level or expertise. to me, the avatar is a satiric take on the roles of black women and white men in the workplace. it is completely A-typical for black women in the workplace to feel empowered enough to voice ANYTHING with regard to issues of race, as we are often then called out as being "over-sensitive bitches that are playing the race card to get ahead." therefore, the images of these black women putting the white guy on BLAST in the office, is something that i can relate to. in fact, i feel empowered just looking at this pic! YOU BETTA WERK, DAMMIT!!!!

drilla, i'm not so shallow as to find humor in something that truly has the power to oppress or cause harm to someone or some group of people. this avatar has some meaning to me that is deeper than what you've taken on face value. i think your reaction is an emotional one fueled by white privilege and, perhaps, guilt?

finally... drilla, you said in one of your posts that you have "no personal beef with this 'girl'." if you peep my date of birth on my profile, you'll find that i was born in 1978 - i haven't been a "girl" in 2 decades. there is also a historical context to white men calling black women "girls" (and black men "boys," which was in your doctored version of my avatar). i thought to put this out there as well - not because i think this was your intention - but in the spirit of healthy dialogue on race and its historical/political context. :)

since some of the white folks on DHP all of a sudden want to decry racism, then i'd like to suggest a few steps to consider in becoming a white ally to people of color:

1. Realize the meanings behind privilege, racism and whiteness.

2. Look within before you look outward. How do you relate to the definitions of white privilege and white guilt? Pinpoint the ways in which you experience privilege as a white person.

3. Look outward, find out the historical, global and social patterns of the effects of racism and other forms of oppression.

4. Act. Realize that you want to do something about this system, and come at it with a sensitivity and understanding that you come from a privileged background whether you like it or not.

btw, BIG SHOUT-OUTS to k-big and brazenmuse for their enlightening commentary and perspectives on race and gender in america. ya'll are some powerful sistas!

also, BIG UPS to folks that i've had the pleasure of meeting in person off of the boards that said such kind things about my character (sam, alarick, kels, etc).

xoxoxoxoxoxo!!!!

[The Crazy Life That Is Alarick T]

hey all!!!

imagine my surprise, after a long weekend out of work and away from the computer, logging on to DHP and finding out that my myspace avatar has sparked a hot discussion on race and gender for the past 3 days! drilla, i finally got some DHP street cred thanks to you!! :rofl:

first off, as a BLACK WOMAN who happens to have a white mother (yes, drilla... in a way, i'm white like you too!!!), i have had some of these same conversations with my family members. dialogue on oppression and its manifestation within society and culture is healthy to have - at least, when in the spirit of learning and finding ways to work together to undo oppression based on race, gender identity, ability, class and sexual orientation. however drilla, i did find your thread to be rather combative and not intended to spark a healthy dialogue. and, you STILL haven't PM'd my azz.

the idea of a white man, like drilla, schooling a black woman, like me, on racism is not only laughable, but borderline offensive. please don't EVER attempt to school a person of color on what racism is or what it looks like. believe me, drilla, we know more than you will EVER know. TRUST.

in my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes white people often make is their attempt to have a franchise on "comfort." god forbid a person of color says or does anything to make white people feel uncomfortable. this often means there can be no discussion of race and no challenge to their privilege, which means no challenge to their power. brazen posed the question earlier in this thread: "does calling out such an image as racist have the effect of trying to shut down discussion rather than opening it up?" i say, YES!!!! especially given the fact that there is a historical context that underlies this political pic that was completely disregarded (once again, white privilege in play).

while i don't feel like i have to explain the avatar i used on my myspace page, i will say that i have always seen the STFU avatar as a socio-political commentary on the institutional racism that is often played out along lines of gender in the workplace. there is no coincidence that the 2 people doing the STFU'ing are black WOMEN - who have traditionally and historically been relegated to positions of service under white MEN in the workplace no matter what their education level or expertise. to me, the avatar is a satiric take on the roles of black women and white men in the workplace. it is completely A-typical for black women in the workplace to feel empowered enough to voice ANYTHING with regard to issues of race, as we are often then called out as being "over-sensitive bitches that are playing the race card to get ahead." therefore, the images of these black women putting the white guy on BLAST in the office, is something that i can relate to. in fact, i feel empowered just looking at this pic! YOU BETTA WERK, DAMMIT!!!!

drilla, i'm not so shallow as to find humor in something that truly has the power to oppress or cause harm to someone or some group of people. this avatar has some meaning to me that is deeper than what you've taken on face value. i think your reaction is an emotional one fueled by white privilege and, perhaps, guilt?

finally... drilla, you said in one of your posts that you have "no personal beef with this 'girl'." if you peep my date of birth on my profile, you'll find that i was born in 1978 - i haven't been a "girl" in 2 decades. there is also a historical context to white men calling black women "girls" (and black men "boys," which was in your doctored version of my avatar). i thought to put this out there as well - not because i think this was your intention - but in the spirit of healthy dialogue on race and its historical/political context. :)

since some of the white folks on DHP all of a sudden want to decry racism, then i'd like to suggest a few steps to consider in becoming a white ally to people of color:

1. Realize the meanings behind privilege, racism and whiteness.

2. Look within before you look outward. How do you relate to the definitions of white privilege and white guilt? Pinpoint the ways in which you experience privilege as a white person.

3. Look outward, find out the historical, global and social patterns of the effects of racism and other forms of oppression.

4. Act. Realize that you want to do something about this system, and come at it with a sensitivity and understanding that you come from a privileged background whether you like it or not.

btw, BIG SHOUT-OUTS to k-big and brazenmuse for their enlightening commentary and perspectives on race and gender in america. ya'll are some powerful sistas!

also, BIG UPS to folks that i've had the pleasure of meeting in person off of the boards that said such kind things about my character (sam, alarick, kels, etc).

xoxoxoxoxoxo!!!!

:remybussi:

[BHouse]

Psa: I Repeat... Drilla Is Not A Member Of Dhp I - Team!!! That Is All.

[kitmanic]

hey all!!!

therefore, the images of these black women putting the white guy on BLAST in the office, is something that i can relate to. in fact, i feel empowered just looking at this pic! YOU BETTA WERK, DAMMIT!!!!




No, YOU better WERK! Wow....that was hot...

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

hey all!!!

imagine my surprise, after a long weekend out of work and away from the computer, logging on to DHP and finding out that my myspace avatar has sparked a hot discussion on race and gender for the past 3 days! drilla, i finally got some DHP street cred thanks to you!! :rofl:

first off, as a BLACK WOMAN who happens to have a white mother (yes, drilla... in a way, i'm white like you too!!!), i have had some of these same conversations with my family members. dialogue on oppression and its manifestation within society and culture is healthy to have - at least, when in the spirit of learning and finding ways to work together to undo oppression based on race, gender identity, ability, class and sexual orientation. however drilla, i did find your thread to be rather combative and not intended to spark a healthy dialogue. and, you STILL haven't PM'd my azz.

the idea of a white man, like drilla, schooling a black woman, like me, on racism is not only laughable, but borderline offensive. please don't EVER attempt to school a person of color on what racism is or what it looks like. believe me, drilla, we know more than you will EVER know. TRUST.

in my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes white people often make is their attempt to have a franchise on "comfort." god forbid a person of color says or does anything to make white people feel uncomfortable. this often means there can be no discussion of race and no challenge to their privilege, which means no challenge to their power. brazen posed the question earlier in this thread: "does calling out such an image as racist have the effect of trying to shut down discussion rather than opening it up?" i say, YES!!!! especially given the fact that there is a historical context that underlies this political pic that was completely disregarded (once again, white privilege in play).

while i don't feel like i have to explain the avatar i used on my myspace page, i will say that i have always seen the STFU avatar as a socio-political commentary on the institutional racism that is often played out along lines of gender in the workplace. there is no coincidence that the 2 people doing the STFU'ing are black WOMEN - who have traditionally and historically been relegated to positions of service under white MEN in the workplace no matter what their education level or expertise. to me, the avatar is a satiric take on the roles of black women and white men in the workplace. it is completely A-typical for black women in the workplace to feel empowered enough to voice ANYTHING with regard to issues of race, as we are often then called out as being "over-sensitive bitches that are playing the race card to get ahead." therefore, the images of these black women putting the white guy on BLAST in the office, is something that i can relate to. in fact, i feel empowered just looking at this pic! YOU BETTA WERK, DAMMIT!!!!

drilla, i'm not so shallow as to find humor in something that truly has the power to oppress or cause harm to someone or some group of people. this avatar has some meaning to me that is deeper than what you've taken on face value. i think your reaction is an emotional one fueled by white privilege and, perhaps, guilt?

finally... drilla, you said in one of your posts that you have "no personal beef with this 'girl'." if you peep my date of birth on my profile, you'll find that i was born in 1978 - i haven't been a "girl" in 2 decades. there is also a historical context to white men calling black women "girls" (and black men "boys," which was in your doctored version of my avatar). i thought to put this out there as well - not because i think this was your intention - but in the spirit of healthy dialogue on race and its historical/political context. :)

since some of the white folks on DHP all of a sudden want to decry racism, then i'd like to suggest a few steps to consider in becoming a white ally to people of color:

1. Realize the meanings behind privilege, racism and whiteness.

2. Look within before you look outward. How do you relate to the definitions of white privilege and white guilt? Pinpoint the ways in which you experience privilege as a white person.

3. Look outward, find out the historical, global and social patterns of the effects of racism and other forms of oppression.

4. Act. Realize that you want to do something about this system, and come at it with a sensitivity and understanding that you come from a privileged background whether you like it or not.

btw, BIG SHOUT-OUTS to k-big and brazenmuse for their enlightening commentary and perspectives on race and gender in america. ya'll are some powerful sistas!

also, BIG UPS to folks that i've had the pleasure of meeting in person off of the boards that said such kind things about my character (sam, alarick, kels, etc).

xoxoxoxoxoxo!!!!
I'm turned on

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Psa: I Repeat... Drilla Is Not A Member Of Dhp I - Team!!! That Is All.

:lol:

Does one have a choice as to whether they are or aren't on the team or not?

[chldfknungrnd764]

hey all!!!

imagine my surprise, after a long weekend out of work and away from the computer, logging on to DHP and finding out that my myspace avatar has sparked a hot discussion on race and gender for the past 3 days! drilla, i finally got some DHP street cred thanks to you!! :rofl:

first off, as a BLACK WOMAN who happens to have a white mother (yes, drilla... in a way, i'm white like you too!!!), i have had some of these same conversations with my family members. dialogue on oppression and its manifestation within society and culture is healthy to have - at least, when in the spirit of learning and finding ways to work together to undo oppression based on race, gender identity, ability, class and sexual orientation. however drilla, i did find your thread to be rather combative and not intended to spark a healthy dialogue. and, you STILL haven't PM'd my azz.

the idea of a white man, like drilla, schooling a black woman, like me, on racism is not only laughable, but borderline offensive. please don't EVER attempt to school a person of color on what racism is or what it looks like. believe me, drilla, we know more than you will EVER know. TRUST.

in my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes white people often make is their attempt to have a franchise on "comfort." god forbid a person of color says or does anything to make white people feel uncomfortable. this often means there can be no discussion of race and no challenge to their privilege, which means no challenge to their power. brazen posed the question earlier in this thread: "does calling out such an image as racist have the effect of trying to shut down discussion rather than opening it up?" i say, YES!!!! especially given the fact that there is a historical context that underlies this political pic that was completely disregarded (once again, white privilege in play).

while i don't feel like i have to explain the avatar i used on my myspace page, i will say that i have always seen the STFU avatar as a socio-political commentary on the institutional racism that is often played out along lines of gender in the workplace. there is no coincidence that the 2 people doing the STFU'ing are black WOMEN - who have traditionally and historically been relegated to positions of service under white MEN in the workplace no matter what their education level or expertise. to me, the avatar is a satiric take on the roles of black women and white men in the workplace. it is completely A-typical for black women in the workplace to feel empowered enough to voice ANYTHING with regard to issues of race, as we are often then called out as being "over-sensitive bitches that are playing the race card to get ahead." therefore, the images of these black women putting the white guy on BLAST in the office, is something that i can relate to. in fact, i feel empowered just looking at this pic! YOU BETTA WERK, DAMMIT!!!!

drilla, i'm not so shallow as to find humor in something that truly has the power to oppress or cause harm to someone or some group of people. this avatar has some meaning to me that is deeper than what you've taken on face value. i think your reaction is an emotional one fueled by white privilege and, perhaps, guilt?

finally... drilla, you said in one of your posts that you have "no personal beef with this 'girl'." if you peep my date of birth on my profile, you'll find that i was born in 1978 - i haven't been a "girl" in 2 decades. there is also a historical context to white men calling black women "girls" (and black men "boys," which was in your doctored version of my avatar). i thought to put this out there as well - not because i think this was your intention - but in the spirit of healthy dialogue on race and its historical/political context. :)

since some of the white folks on DHP all of a sudden want to decry racism, then i'd like to suggest a few steps to consider in becoming a white ally to people of color:

1. Realize the meanings behind privilege, racism and whiteness.

2. Look within before you look outward. How do you relate to the definitions of white privilege and white guilt? Pinpoint the ways in which you experience privilege as a white person.

3. Look outward, find out the historical, global and social patterns of the effects of racism and other forms of oppression.

4. Act. Realize that you want to do something about this system, and come at it with a sensitivity and understanding that you come from a privileged background whether you like it or not.

btw, BIG SHOUT-OUTS to k-big and brazenmuse for their enlightening commentary and perspectives on race and gender in america. ya'll are some powerful sistas!

also, BIG UPS to folks that i've had the pleasure of meeting in person off of the boards that said such kind things about my character (sam, alarick, kels, etc).

xoxoxoxoxoxo!!!!

Well put sista!!:grinyes:

[BrazenMuse]

hey all!!!

imagine my surprise, after a long weekend out of work and away from the computer, logging on to DHP and finding out that my myspace avatar has sparked a hot discussion on race and gender for the past 3 days! drilla, i finally got some DHP street cred thanks to you!! :rofl:

first off, as a BLACK WOMAN who happens to have a white mother (yes, drilla... in a way, i'm white like you too!!!), i have had some of these same conversations with my family members. dialogue on oppression and its manifestation within society and culture is healthy to have - at least, when in the spirit of learning and finding ways to work together to undo oppression based on race, gender identity, ability, class and sexual orientation. however drilla, i did find your thread to be rather combative and not intended to spark a healthy dialogue. and, you STILL haven't PM'd my azz.

the idea of a white man, like drilla, schooling a black woman, like me, on racism is not only laughable, but borderline offensive. please don't EVER attempt to school a person of color on what racism is or what it looks like. believe me, drilla, we know more than you will EVER know. TRUST.

in my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes white people often make is their attempt to have a franchise on "comfort." god forbid a person of color says or does anything to make white people feel uncomfortable. this often means there can be no discussion of race and no challenge to their privilege, which means no challenge to their power. brazen posed the question earlier in this thread: "does calling out such an image as racist have the effect of trying to shut down discussion rather than opening it up?" i say, YES!!!! especially given the fact that there is a historical context that underlies this political pic that was completely disregarded (once again, white privilege in play).

while i don't feel like i have to explain the avatar i used on my myspace page, i will say that i have always seen the STFU avatar as a socio-political commentary on the institutional racism that is often played out along lines of gender in the workplace. there is no coincidence that the 2 people doing the STFU'ing are black WOMEN - who have traditionally and historically been relegated to positions of service under white MEN in the workplace no matter what their education level or expertise. to me, the avatar is a satiric take on the roles of black women and white men in the workplace. it is completely A-typical for black women in the workplace to feel empowered enough to voice ANYTHING with regard to issues of race, as we are often then called out as being "over-sensitive bitches that are playing the race card to get ahead." therefore, the images of these black women putting the white guy on BLAST in the office, is something that i can relate to. in fact, i feel empowered just looking at this pic! YOU BETTA WERK, DAMMIT!!!!

drilla, i'm not so shallow as to find humor in something that truly has the power to oppress or cause harm to someone or some group of people. this avatar has some meaning to me that is deeper than what you've taken on face value. i think your reaction is an emotional one fueled by white privilege and, perhaps, guilt?

finally... drilla, you said in one of your posts that you have "no personal beef with this 'girl'." if you peep my date of birth on my profile, you'll find that i was born in 1978 - i haven't been a "girl" in 2 decades. there is also a historical context to white men calling black women "girls" (and black men "boys," which was in your doctored version of my avatar). i thought to put this out there as well - not because i think this was your intention - but in the spirit of healthy dialogue on race and its historical/political context. :)

since some of the white folks on DHP all of a sudden want to decry racism, then i'd like to suggest a few steps to consider in becoming a white ally to people of color:

1. Realize the meanings behind privilege, racism and whiteness.

2. Look within before you look outward. How do you relate to the definitions of white privilege and white guilt? Pinpoint the ways in which you experience privilege as a white person.

3. Look outward, find out the historical, global and social patterns of the effects of racism and other forms of oppression.

4. Act. Realize that you want to do something about this system, and come at it with a sensitivity and understanding that you come from a privileged background whether you like it or not.

btw, BIG SHOUT-OUTS to k-big and brazenmuse for their enlightening commentary and perspectives on race and gender in america. ya'll are some powerful sistas!

also, BIG UPS to folks that i've had the pleasure of meeting in person off of the boards that said such kind things about my character (sam, alarick, kels, etc).

xoxoxoxoxoxo!!!!

Werk, Julia!!! I've been rubbing my little kitty paws together and grooming my whiskers in anticipation!!!

:grinyes:

For real, I enjoyed the conversation and am glad that it didn't continue in an unproductive and negative combative mode...consciousness raising is a tricky business...very much so.

I appreciate that drilla was bothered and honest enough to speak up. I don't have to agree w him to appreciate that. Frankly, since they get blamed for EVERYTHING, I'm not sure I'd want to be a white male of any sort...that image erases the individual quite thoroughly as well. I had a young Italian-American male student in an Ethnic Identity class crying because he didn't want to be seen as "the white man" against whom writers like Baldwin were ranting. He ended up writing a fascinating paper on his identity as an Italian American male and the problems of stereotyping that he'd had to cope with...but he was really aggravated..."I'm not rich, I'm not trying to hurt anyone...I have black friends...and I KNOW that doesn't sound right!!!" But he came out of the class with some valuable insights...

[kitmanic]

I'm turned on

Me too. I'm printing a hard copy to bring to bed with me.

[drilla]

hey all!!!

imagine my surprise, after a long weekend out of work and away from the computer, logging on to DHP and finding out that my myspace avatar has sparked a hot discussion on race and gender for the past 3 days! drilla, i finally got some DHP street cred thanks to you!! :rofl:

first off, as a BLACK WOMAN who happens to have a white mother (yes, drilla... in a way, i'm white like you too!!!), i have had some of these same conversations with my family members. dialogue on oppression and its manifestation within society and culture is healthy to have - at least, when in the spirit of learning and finding ways to work together to undo oppression based on race, gender identity, ability, class and sexual orientation. however drilla, i did find your thread to be rather combative and not intended to spark a healthy dialogue. and, you STILL haven't PM'd my azz.

the idea of a white man, like drilla, schooling a black woman, like me, on racism is not only laughable, but borderline offensive. please don't EVER attempt to school a person of color on what racism is or what it looks like. believe me, drilla, we know more than you will EVER know. TRUST.

in my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes white people often make is their attempt to have a franchise on "comfort." god forbid a person of color says or does anything to make white people feel uncomfortable. this often means there can be no discussion of race and no challenge to their privilege, which means no challenge to their power. brazen posed the question earlier in this thread: "does calling out such an image as racist have the effect of trying to shut down discussion rather than opening it up?" i say, YES!!!! especially given the fact that there is a historical context that underlies this political pic that was completely disregarded (once again, white privilege in play).

while i don't feel like i have to explain the avatar i used on my myspace page, i will say that i have always seen the STFU avatar as a socio-political commentary on the institutional racism that is often played out along lines of gender in the workplace. there is no coincidence that the 2 people doing the STFU'ing are black WOMEN - who have traditionally and historically been relegated to positions of service under white MEN in the workplace no matter what their education level or expertise. to me, the avatar is a satiric take on the roles of black women and white men in the workplace. it is completely A-typical for black women in the workplace to feel empowered enough to voice ANYTHING with regard to issues of race, as we are often then called out as being "over-sensitive bitches that are playing the race card to get ahead." therefore, the images of these black women putting the white guy on BLAST in the office, is something that i can relate to. in fact, i feel empowered just looking at this pic! YOU BETTA WERK, DAMMIT!!!!

drilla, i'm not so shallow as to find humor in something that truly has the power to oppress or cause harm to someone or some group of people. this avatar has some meaning to me that is deeper than what you've taken on face value. i think your reaction is an emotional one fueled by white privilege and, perhaps, guilt?

finally... drilla, you said in one of your posts that you have "no personal beef with this 'girl'." if you peep my date of birth on my profile, you'll find that i was born in 1978 - i haven't been a "girl" in 2 decades. there is also a historical context to white men calling black women "girls" (and black men "boys," which was in your doctored version of my avatar). i thought to put this out there as well - not because i think this was your intention - but in the spirit of healthy dialogue on race and its historical/political context. :)

since some of the white folks on DHP all of a sudden want to decry racism, then i'd like to suggest a few steps to consider in becoming a white ally to people of color:

1. Realize the meanings behind privilege, racism and whiteness.

2. Look within before you look outward. How do you relate to the definitions of white privilege and white guilt? Pinpoint the ways in which you experience privilege as a white person.

3. Look outward, find out the historical, global and social patterns of the effects of racism and other forms of oppression.

4. Act. Realize that you want to do something about this system, and come at it with a sensitivity and understanding that you come from a privileged background whether you like it or not.

btw, BIG SHOUT-OUTS to k-big and brazenmuse for their enlightening commentary and perspectives on race and gender in america. ya'll are some powerful sistas!

also, BIG UPS to folks that i've had the pleasure of meeting in person off of the boards that said such kind things about my character (sam, alarick, kels, etc).

xoxoxoxoxoxo!!!!

thanks for finally answering. you are extremely condescending and take great leaps in suggesting you know me or have any idea who i am...or why i even asked you about this.

i think you have alot of hate in you too that you need to let go.

and instead of giving kudos to those that showed more hate towards me, you might wanna suggest a diet or a diabetes check up...i think that would be much healthier for them both.

well, now your famous... enjoy it.

[AK]

Seems to be that "look within" part that's tough...

[echo bravo]

"The enormous space that work occupies in Black women's lives today follows a pattern established during the very earliest days of slavery."
-- angela davis, "women, race and class"
for me, this was a life-changing read at 18 y/o

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0704346907/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-3003294-2632617#reader-link

thanks to beattyful for the avatar. love it.

thanks for every single reply on this one.

drilla, not sure if you were teaching with this thread topic. hope you learn something.

[Phyllis Hyman Cherry]

Not to seem rude,but ive never been one known for tact.Some people need to get a motherfuckin sense of humor.Just miserable for no goddamn reason,always trying to make something out of nothing.
You have to laugh at yourself,when people poke fun.That is one of the great joys in life when you can look at stuff you do and other shit people say about you and just laugh.
We have become to sensitive in todays society.Blacks,chinese,whites,whatever there is some funny shit that can be said about all.Everyone is afraid to upset eachother,call me a pillowbiter that shit is funny.You take it on the chin and you comeback with your own jokes.Stop fucking crying its not becoming and im out!

[kitmanic]

thanks for finally answering. you are extremely condescending .

often that's how I feel too when I know the other person has strong arguments and all I can do is huff and puff

[BrazenMuse]

thanks for finally answering. you are extremely condescending and take great leaps in suggesting you know me or have any idea who i am...or why i even asked you about this.

i think you have alot of hate in you too that you need to let go.

and instead of giving kudos to those that showed more hate towards me, you might wanna suggest a diet or a diabetes check up...i think that would be much healthier for them both.

well, now your famous... enjoy it.

Ummm...there certainly are plenty of openings for a gracious ending for all this. This was not one of the gracious ones...discussion, not combat. If you didn't make your point well, then rephrase it. Going gutter with what little you and others on this board might know about me personally is really not called for and doesn't do a thing for advancing the point you were trying to make.

[drilla]

Ummm...there certainly are plenty of openings for a gracious ending for all this. This was not one of the gracious ones...discussion, not combat. If you didn't make your point well, then rephrase it. Going gutter with what little you and others on this board might know about me personally is really not called for and doesn't do a thing for advancing the point you were trying to make.

ya know what....im sorry for what i said and including you in that last message... i dont agree with you, but you were cool and respectful all the way through... i grouped you with someone else by accident.... my bad. respect.

[BrazenMuse]

ya know what....im sorry for what i said and including you in that last message... i dont agree with you, but you were cool and respectful all the way through... i grouped you with someone else by accident.... my bad. respect.
Thank you. I appreciate that a great deal. Peace.

[Drrtynewyork]

thanks for finally answering. you are extremely condescending and take great leaps in suggesting you know me or have any idea who i am...or why i even asked you about this.

i think you have alot of hate in you too that you need to let go.

and instead of giving kudos to those that showed more hate towards me, you might wanna suggest a diet or a diabetes check up...i think that would be much healthier for them both.

well, now your famous... enjoy it.


hahaha

[The Buddy Love Show]

I usually don't peep these FAO threads unless my name is in the title

interesting reading

Julia is good peeps and it was interesting to read her VERY powerful words of truth

drilla is also a cool person and i understand his visceral response but i feel he could have addressed this imagery in another way.

i'm glad we can have a discussion of race w/o getting ugly because i learned something

peace

[Bill Blake]

All across America, in the vast multitude, there are black women going to work, usually in administrative positions, under the hire fire do tasked supervision of white management.

Because of higher position, economic and educational backgrounds, and assumed cultural mores as better, these women are looked down upon and treated with disdain in many and on going instances-interactions.

If you look at the picture, it’s black women, in an office, business attire, with an overpowering stance with white man in the office.

The humor or feel good of the pic is a voyeuristic happenstance, where for once the black women, getting berated on a daily basis are finally in a position of power to tell the white man what’s on their mind.

[BrazenMuse]

All across America, in the vast multitude, there are black women going to work, usually in administrative positions, under the hire fire do tasked supervision of white management.

Because of higher position, economic and educational backgrounds, and assumed cultural mores as better, these women are looked down upon and treated with disdain in many and on going instances-interactions.

If you look at the picture, it’s black women, in an office, business attire, with an overpowering stance with white man in the office.

The humor or feel good of the pic is a voyeuristic happenstance, where for once the black women, getting berated on a daily basis are finally in a position of power to tell the white man what’s on their mind.

That's what I see too. I can see how it might make folks uncomfortable...which I think discussed earlier. I also believe, along with others, that photoshopping it to reverse the roles has a very different effect from the one that drilla might have been after, at least for ME as a viewer.

drilla, I'd recommend the Tim Wise site. If indeed you have an interest in other readings on race and identity and images...hit me up on the PM...I got a pretty good list of stuff from a course I taught...

[mhd]

All across America, in the vast multitude, there are black women going to work, usually in administrative positions, under the hire fire do tasked supervision of white management.

Because of higher position, economic and educational backgrounds, and assumed cultural mores as better, these women are looked down upon and treated with disdain in many and on going instances-interactions.

If you look at the picture, it’s black women, in an office, business attire, with an overpowering stance with white man in the office.

The humor or feel good of the pic is a voyeuristic happenstance, where for once the black women, getting berated on a daily basis are finally in a position of power to tell the white man what’s on their mind.

but thats an unfortunate stereotype too, i'm surrounded by powerful black women, always have been, political leaders, business owners, scholars, activists, or mothers, etc. the notion of a submissive, servile black woman is foreign to me, as far as i'm concerned, black woman as leader, telling everybody what to do is the norm

[D J 1 3 8]

thanks for finally answering. you are extremely condescending and take great leaps in suggesting you know me or have any idea who i am...or why i even asked you about this.

i think you have alot of hate in you too that you need to let go.

and instead of giving kudos to those that showed more hate towards me, you might wanna suggest a diet or a diabetes check up...i think that would be much healthier for them both.

well, now your famous... enjoy it.

Being on the receiving end of a DHP full court press can be a bitch, and I have been there, but I find there is always something to learn about yourself (and others) if you remove your personal feelings from it for only a moment.

In all seriousness, your response indicates you may be missing an opportunity to learn something here.

[simon b]

but thats an unfortunate stereotype too, i'm surrounded by powerful black women, always have been, political leaders, business owners, scholars, activists, or mothers, etc. the notion of a submissive, servile black woman is foreign to me, as far as i'm concerned, black woman as leader, telling everybody what to do is the norm

Good point.

Luckily most the black (and white) women in my life are leaders, teachers, wonderful friends and inspiringly strong characters. That particular whiteboy in the image most have said some stupid shit to have his bosses telling him to STFU like that.

[MYOR]

That white boy just looks like a nerd being bullied.. LOL

Poor drills.. flashbacks??

[Cordell]

thanks for finally answering. you are extremely condescending and take great leaps in suggesting you know me or have any idea who i am...or why i even asked you about this.

i think you have alot of hate in you too that you need to let go.

and instead of giving kudos to those that showed more hate towards me, you might wanna suggest a diet or a diabetes check up...i think that would be much healthier for them both.

well, now your famous... enjoy it.


"...Hate in you too..." ?????
Why would you think that?

[mhd]

Being on the receiving end of a DHP full court press can be a bitch, and I have been there, but I find there is always something to learn about yourself (and others) if you remove your personal feelings from it for only a moment.

In all seriousness, your response indicates you may be missing an opportunity to learn something here.

yeah, but, drilla been on here for a minute, if he ain't learned by now...

[BrazenMuse]

Good point.

Luckily most the black (and white) women in my life are leaders, teachers, wonderful friends and inspiringly strong characters. That particular whiteboy in the image most have said some stupid shit to have his bosses telling him to STFU like that.


mhd, I hear you. But the prevalence of those images in the public eye has some effect, surely??? Most especially in places where african-americans are underrepresented?
Certainly, in places where women (of any sort) are underrepresented, there is a visible influence from the prevalence of negative images...


Just thinking on this some more...what say you?

[Bill Blake]

but thats an unfortunate stereotype too, i'm surrounded by powerful black women, always have been, political leaders, business owners, scholars, activists, or mothers, etc. the notion of a submissive, servile black woman is foreign to me, as far as i'm concerned, black woman as leader, telling everybody what to do is the norm

From the Department of Labor:

The largest percentage of employed women (38%) worked in management, professional, and related occupations; 34% worked in sales and office occupations; 20% in service occupations; 6% in production, transportation, and material moving occupations; and 1% in natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations.

The largest percentage of employed Asian and white women (46% and 39%, respectively) worked in management, professional, and related occupations. For black and Hispanic women, it was sales and office occupations--32% and 33%, respectively.

[D J 1 3 8]

yeah, but, drilla been on here for a minute, if he ain't learned by now...

wisdom and understanding comes to each of us when we are ready to receive it IMO

[mhd]

wisdom and understanding comes to each of us when we are ready to receive it IMO

or never

[mhd]

mhd, I hear you. But the prevalence of those images in the public eye has some effect, surely??? Most especially in places where african-americans are underrepresented?
Certainly, in places where women (of any sort) are underrepresented, there is a visible influence from the prevalence of negative images...


Just thinking on this some more...what say you?

i can't imagine anyone thinking that they can look down on a black woman, i don't know what images you are referring to, i'm thinking about sojourner, harriet, angela, oprah, hell lil kim, and the countless black women leaders i was raised by and encounter everyday

[Bill Blake]

OCCUPATIONS-- In 2005, for women who were full-time, wage and salary workers, the ten most prevalent occupations were:
Secretaries and administrative assistants (2,611,000)
Elementary and middle school teachers (1,801,000)
Registered nurses (1,654,000)
Nursing, psychiatric, and home health aides (1,118,000)
Cashiers (1,064,000)
Customer service representatives (1,010,000)
First-line supervisors/managers of retail sales workers (979,000)
First-line supervisors/managers of office and administrative support (953,000)
Bookkeeping, accounting, and auditing clerks (861,000)
Accountants and auditors (855,000)

The largest sector being: Secretaries and administrative assistants (2,611,000), double over any of the other most prevalent occupations.

[BrazenMuse]

From the Department of Labor:

The largest percentage of employed women (38%) worked in management, professional, and related occupations; 34% worked in sales and office occupations; 20% in service occupations; 6% in production, transportation, and material moving occupations; and 1% in natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations.

The largest percentage of employed Asian and white women (46% and 39%, respectively) worked in management, professional, and related occupations. For black and Hispanic women, it was sales and office occupations--32% and 33%, respectively.

Something about those numbers makes me all :eek: even when I know that the overall picture painted by them is true. I'd bet it gets even more scary if you then look at the #s for how much of the American female population belongs to which groups/races.

I know many powerful women...I also know, at least anecdotally, what it can be like in their places of employment. The avatar image does, as Julia pointed out, serve as a fantasy of getting one's own back...I certainly know what it's like to be the only woman in a workplace, and to be the only woman of color. It's not cute. The assumptions one faces can be really horrifying because you'd think they went the way of the dinosaur by now...but they haven't. And try working, as a woman of color, with people from other countries...some of the images/assumptions about women and women of color can be horrifying...there has to be a stronger word than that...and one has to work against or around them constantly. If one is fortunate, one's in an environment where there's space for it and where one's not penalized for being in one's own skin...but sometimes one isn't so fortunate...:frown:

[BrazenMuse]

i can't imagine anyone thinking that they can look down on a black woman, i don't know what images you are referring to, i'm thinking about sojourner, harriet, angela, oprah, hell lil kim, and the countless black women leaders i was raised by and encounter everyday

You've been fortunate, mhd, and blessed.
For every one of those images, there are opposing numbers: the welfare queens, the hoochie-mamas, the prostitutes, the mammies... there are the people who look me in my face on the streets of NY and assume that I just got to the country and don't speak any English. There are the exchange students who really think that the thug-life is the real experience of all of African America, is it? There are still those who want to touch my hair and then say..."oh!!! It's soo soft!!!" - like what the heck were they expecting?

You've had face-to-face influences and contextual influences/experiences and that's marvelous. Is your experience typical? Maybe for the part(s) of the country you've lived in. But African-Americans still only make up around 13% of the US population...and aren't scattered thinly enough for your experience to be altogether that common...if we are only talking about African-American women. If we talk about women in general, then I think Bill's numbers get more and more interesting...

[Bill Blake]

Something about those numbers makes me all :eek: even when I know that the overall picture painted by them is true. I'd bet it gets even more scary if you then look at the #s for how much of the American female population belongs to which groups/races.

I know many powerful women...I also know, at least anecdotally, what it can be like in their places of employment. The avatar image does, as Julia pointed out, serve as a fantasy of getting one's own back...I certainly know what it's like to be the only woman in a workplace, and to be the only woman of color. It's not cute. The assumptions one faces can be really horrifying because you'd think they went the way of the dinosaur by now...but they haven't. And try working, as a woman of color, with people from other countries...some of the images/assumptions about women and women of color can be horrifying...there has to be a stronger word than that...and one has to work against or around them constantly. If one is fortunate, one's in an environment where there's space for it and where one's not penalized for being in one's own skin...but sometimes one isn't so fortunate...:frown:

You and I seem to be the only ones that 'get it'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics

[BrazenMuse]

Bill...we might have to get together for drinks.

[Brut by Faberge]

Whut is yallz talkin about nah. I dnt unnerstan...

[BrazenMuse]

Whut is yallz talkin about nah. I dnt unnerstan...
silly!!!:biglaugha:

whatchu want cleared up?

[Brut by Faberge]

silly!!!:biglaugha:

whatchu want cleared up?

No need. That was kindof my point.

[BrazenMuse]

No need. That was kindof my point.
:lol:

You funny! And you've been quite fun to talk with in this thread. :respent:

[Bill Blake]

Bill...we might have to get together for drinks.

I'd invite Matt too but he's a wus when it comes liquor.

[BrazenMuse]

I'd invite Matt too but he's a wus when it comes liquor.
so long as its someplace with a decent rye whiskey or bourbon (ok, i'm an american...i love good bourbon) ...
ok, ok...decent single malt whiskey. Just don't make me drink any of that Johnnie crap or the Dewars swill, ok? and no frothy fruity drinks either!!!

Matt...come on, buck up!!

[BHouse]

:lol:

Does one have a choice as to whether they are or aren't on the team or not?

Rule#1 Don't discuss who is a member of DHP I-Team... (cough... SueT is on notice.)

[drilla]

i smoke weed.... drink a lil', but not too much usually.

i understand the intelligent points you all made here and i understand why things are the way they are... jamie's point about how alot of admin positions are hosted by black women with white men being their bosses....

ive had black bosses...white bosses... ive been working since i was nine...paper route...ive done everything and anything all the way up to being a senior project director at an international firm here in manhattan... now, i just make tunes and dj but my point is that i understand how things are. no one has any right to assume i dont.

i got into alot of fights when i was a kid from skating in shitty parts of the city...i got jumped by black kids...puerto ricans... ive had ill shit happen to me from people that were not of my race.

at a time i had a strong hatred towards the cats that got me....i thought "fuck you....i hope you fuckin die" but never once did i add a "nigger" or "spic" to the end of that....

do you get that?

is your basis for this is that its ok to say these things because racism exists and you feel a need to strike back with hatred? that is what it looks like to me....

thats all i was saying.

there isnt any need to go so far into this and explain the history of race, social status, take guesses at how i live or what i think...or any of that shit...

alot of you cats are fuckin crazy in the fuckin head in my book and need to relax, love a little more and stop spreading more hate...

i think we can all agree we have plenty, already.

[drilla]

"...Hate in you too..." ?????
Why would you think that?

she fully agreed with kbig....that chic oozes hate...and gravy, im pretty sure. haha...

[Terry James]

Damn...I was wondering why a FAO was 6 pages long

[BrazenMuse]

Damn...I was wondering why a FAO was 6 pages long
Yeah meng. And a pretty good read too.

[Terry James]

hey all!!!

imagine my surprise, after a long weekend out of work and away from the computer, logging on to DHP and finding out that my myspace avatar has sparked a hot discussion on race and gender for the past 3 days! drilla, i finally got some DHP street cred thanks to you!! :rofl:

first off, as a BLACK WOMAN who happens to have a white mother (yes, drilla... in a way, i'm white like you too!!!), i have had some of these same conversations with my family members. dialogue on oppression and its manifestation within society and culture is healthy to have - at least, when in the spirit of learning and finding ways to work together to undo oppression based on race, gender identity, ability, class and sexual orientation. however drilla, i did find your thread to be rather combative and not intended to spark a healthy dialogue. and, you STILL haven't PM'd my azz.

the idea of a white man, like drilla, schooling a black woman, like me, on racism is not only laughable, but borderline offensive. please don't EVER attempt to school a person of color on what racism is or what it looks like. believe me, drilla, we know more than you will EVER know. TRUST.

in my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes white people often make is their attempt to have a franchise on "comfort." god forbid a person of color says or does anything to make white people feel uncomfortable. this often means there can be no discussion of race and no challenge to their privilege, which means no challenge to their power. brazen posed the question earlier in this thread: "does calling out such an image as racist have the effect of trying to shut down discussion rather than opening it up?" i say, YES!!!! especially given the fact that there is a historical context that underlies this political pic that was completely disregarded (once again, white privilege in play).

while i don't feel like i have to explain the avatar i used on my myspace page, i will say that i have always seen the STFU avatar as a socio-political commentary on the institutional racism that is often played out along lines of gender in the workplace. there is no coincidence that the 2 people doing the STFU'ing are black WOMEN - who have traditionally and historically been relegated to positions of service under white MEN in the workplace no matter what their education level or expertise. to me, the avatar is a satiric take on the roles of black women and white men in the workplace. it is completely A-typical for black women in the workplace to feel empowered enough to voice ANYTHING with regard to issues of race, as we are often then called out as being "over-sensitive bitches that are playing the race card to get ahead." therefore, the images of these black women putting the white guy on BLAST in the office, is something that i can relate to. in fact, i feel empowered just looking at this pic! YOU BETTA WERK, DAMMIT!!!!

drilla, i'm not so shallow as to find humor in something that truly has the power to oppress or cause harm to someone or some group of people. this avatar has some meaning to me that is deeper than what you've taken on face value. i think your reaction is an emotional one fueled by white privilege and, perhaps, guilt?

finally... drilla, you said in one of your posts that you have "no personal beef with this 'girl'." if you peep my date of birth on my profile, you'll find that i was born in 1978 - i haven't been a "girl" in 2 decades. there is also a historical context to white men calling black women "girls" (and black men "boys," which was in your doctored version of my avatar). i thought to put this out there as well - not because i think this was your intention - but in the spirit of healthy dialogue on race and its historical/political context. :)

since some of the white folks on DHP all of a sudden want to decry racism, then i'd like to suggest a few steps to consider in becoming a white ally to people of color:

1. Realize the meanings behind privilege, racism and whiteness.

2. Look within before you look outward. How do you relate to the definitions of white privilege and white guilt? Pinpoint the ways in which you experience privilege as a white person.

3. Look outward, find out the historical, global and social patterns of the effects of racism and other forms of oppression.

4. Act. Realize that you want to do something about this system, and come at it with a sensitivity and understanding that you come from a privileged background whether you like it or not.

btw, BIG SHOUT-OUTS to k-big and brazenmuse for their enlightening commentary and perspectives on race and gender in america. ya'll are some powerful sistas!

also, BIG UPS to folks that i've had the pleasure of meeting in person off of the boards that said such kind things about my character (sam, alarick, kels, etc).

xoxoxoxoxoxo!!!!



You Are So Beattyful To Me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsdkGHX9Vqo&mode=related&search=)