Stop Snitching/Good Lil' Ho!!?? What do you folks think of this?

[BrazenMuse]

I'm a bit squirmy about this one...but I love good political cartoons. What say ya'll?
http://www.news4jax.com/news/13930458/detail.html
Association of Editorial Cartoonists:
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/40018/

I couldn't post the snippet of text without getting some stupid ad, so I got rid of it...hopefully. My apologies

[D J 1 3 8]

http://www.news4jax.com/2007/0818/13922131.jpg

[Ernest Fountain]

i can't really comment on it until i see the entire editorial page from that day. what was the content of the editorial piece(s) that related to the cartoon? (my bad if the link is somewhere on that page and i missed it)

edit: if the cartoon stood alone, then, imo it wasn't effective at all, except to perhaps start a discussion, of which the usage of the word "ho" shouldn't be the main issue at all. but of course that's what gets the attention...

[JR JAM]

News4Jax.com



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(http://www.news4jax.com/print/13930458/detail.html#)
From Florida Times-Union


This cartoon on the editorial page of Friday's Florida Times-Union generated strong reaction from readers and the leader of the NAACP.

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</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Times-Union Editor Regrets Offensive Word In Cartoon

Readers, NAACP Complain To Newspaper


UPDATED: 12:35 pm EDT August 20, 2007



<SCRIPT src="/js/13260191/script.js" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT><LINK href="/css/13260803/style.css" type=text/css rel=stylesheet><!--startindex-->JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- An editorial cartoon taking shot at those who fail to turn in violent criminals generated controversy, then a response from the Florida Times-Union.
The cartoon appeared on the editorial page of Friday's newspaper with a caption saying, "The new rule of law." It shows what appears to be a man shot, and a gunman standing over the victim wearing shirts reading "Don't Snitch."
Two young children depicted in the cartoon say "I didn't see nuttin'!" Then the gunman says, "Now that's a good little ho!"
The cartoon generated controversy on two levels: for using the slang word that got Don Imus fired from his nationally syndicated radio and television shows and for sending the wrong message.
The president of the local chapter of the NAACP said he found both the picture and the words offensive.
"I was stunned about it," said Isaiah Rumlin, president of the local NAACP chapter. "I was outraged."
Rumlin said he took calls from at least 20 angry people who also found this cartoon offensive. He said he called the newspaper and expressed his concern to publisher Carl Cannon.
"We're going to see how we can work together and alleviate this type of language in the paper," Rumlin told Channel 4.
In Sunday's newspaper, editorial page editor Mike Clark was quoted as saying he reviewed and approved the cartoon by longtime Times-Union cartoonist Ed Gamble.
"Using the word 'ho' was bad judgment, and I regret that I did not edit it out," Clark told the newspapers reader advocate. "The object of the cartoon was to comment on the rise of a no-snitching culture, something that is widely in the news today. There was certainly no intent to offend the many law-abiding Jacksonville citizens."
Gamble told the reader advocate that the term "ho" is demeaning to women, but said, "I was making a point that rappers are demeaning to women." In the background of the cartoon is a billboard displaying: "Rap your life away."
The comments in Sunday’s newspaper came after complaints about the cartoon flooded into both the newspaper and Channel 4.
"Why would you even put something like that in the paper in the first place?" one resident told the local station's Jennifer Bauer.
"That's not comical at all," another newspaper reader said. "That's poor teaching of children." <!--stopindex-->

[E-Phi]

The second link has a larger picture. Also on that page, check out the cartoon for 8/14/07. I can see how some might find it offensive. I can also see how others feel when the mirror is turned toward them.

[travy]

as a former resident of jacksonville, this isn't surprising to me. it is one of the most segregated and racially insensitive cities you could ever go to and the local paper is no different...

[Fletch]

as a former resident of jacksonville, this isn't surprising to me. it is one of the most segregated and racially insensitive cities you could ever go to and the local paper is no different...

Black Enterprise listed Jax in their 2007 "Top 10 Cities for African-Americans".

A question for Journalists: Is it true that if you make an editorial statement, as a rule you should stand behind it, offensive or not?

[Bill Blake]

It’s a fucking editorial cartoon. Many of which take way more abusive stances against politicians and I won’t hear anyone complaining about his others cracking on Bush.

So there’s no truth in this?

[Bill Blake]

Black Enterprise listed Jax in their 2007 "Top 10 Cities for African-Americans".

A question for Journalists: Is it true that if you make an editorial statement, as a rule you should stand behind it, offensive or not?


I was born and raised there YAY!

[BrazenMuse]

The comments in Sunday’s newspaper came after complaints about the cartoon flooded into both the newspaper and Channel 4.
"Why would you even put something like that in the paper in the first place?" one resident told the local station's Jennifer Bauer.
"That's not comical at all," another newspaper reader said. "That's poor teaching of children."

This comment tells me that people don't pay attention to the use of editorial cartoons to display harsh truths. These are the same folks that wouldn't know irony if you brained them with it.

I actually like the cartoon. I think it lays bare a very uncomfortable truth...one that needs to be laid bare. The language is part of it, and needs to be there...

[Ernest Fountain]

It’s a fucking editorial cartoon. Many of which take way more abusive stances against politicians and I won’t hear anyone complaining about his others cracking on Bush.

So there’s no truth in this?

there's much truth in it, including the usage of the word "ho", that some naacp members and others seem to be up in arms about.

[Ernest Fountain]

This comment tells me that people don't pay attention to the use of editorial cartoons to display harsh truths. These are the same folks that wouldn't know irony if you brained them with it.

...

ya know...

[BrazenMuse]

ya know...

Irony IS not the Alanis Morrisette song...her examples fall far short...but folks need lessons...

[travy]

Black Enterprise listed Jax in their 2007 "Top 10 Cities for African-Americans".


could be true, but i grew up there and played on both sides of the tracks and saw it first hand. and every time i go back, there are multiple cringe inducing moments from the locals... just my limited perspective, but trust, it ain't exactly brooklyn...

yo bill blake, forgot you were from 'the ville'. where/when did you go to high school?

[travy]

This comment tells me that people don't pay attention to the use of editorial cartoons to display harsh truths. These are the same folks that wouldn't know irony if you brained them with it.

I actually like the cartoon. I think it lays bare a very uncomfortable truth...one that needs to be laid bare. The language is part of it, and needs to be there...

what if it had said, "now that's a good little nigga,"? there are limits to how far these things should go. "ho" and cartooning black stereotypes crosses the line, imo...

[BrazenMuse]

I have so much family in Jax it ain't funny. That is one weird place. You could drop all 5 boros into it and they'd be swallowed ...just in terms of square miles. Spent many a summer there...

[Ernest Fountain]

what if it had said, "now that's a good little nigga,"? there are limits to how far these things should go. "ho" and cartooning black stereotypes crosses the line, imo...

the thing is that this isn't a stereotype. folks have gotten killed and continue to get killed for talking to and cooperating with the police in cases that they should.

in regards to the language, you mean to tell me that cats stopped referencing women as "hos" and "bitches" overnight? unfortunately, not around my way. when i overhear young cats (and some of the older ones too) talking, i hear plenty of it, with a nice dose of the n word sprinkled in there...

the outrage shouldn't be with the cartoon, the creator of it or the language. it should be with the truth that is exposed...imo.

[Moksha]

A question for Journalists: Is it true that if you make an editorial statement, as a rule you should stand behind it, offensive or not?

no

[Bill Blake]

The NAACP offends me...

[BrazenMuse]

the thing is that this isn't a stereotype. folks have gotten killed and continue to get killed for talking to and cooperating with the police in cases that they should.



the outrage shouldn't be with the cartoon, the creator of it or the language. it should be with the truth that is exposed...imo.

It IS a bit of a "stereotype" - don't fall into the trap of forgetting that each stereotype has a historical context...and they often reflect something about socioeconomic truths from their originating era.

But you are right...the outrage is misdirected.

[travy]

the thing is that this isn't a stereotype. folks have gotten killed and continue to get killed for talking to and cooperating with the police in cases that they should.

in regards to the language, you mean to tell me that cats stopped referencing women as "hos" and "bitches" overnight? unfortunately, not around my way. when i overhear young cats (and some of the older ones too) talking, i hear plenty of it, with a nice dose of the n word sprinkled in there...

the outrage shouldn't be with the cartoon, the creator of it or the language. it should be with the truth that is exposed...imo.

good points and i agree. but i bring some baggage to this because i'm from there and am all too familiar with that rag of a paper and its past transgressions. it is very much targeted to a white, suburban, christian audience so any kind of commentary about race--especially criticism--is very suspect to me...

[Ernest Fountain]

good points and i agree. but i bring some baggage to this because i'm from there and am all too familiar with that rag of a paper and its past transgressions. it is very much targeted to a white, suburban, christian audience so any kind of commentary about race--especially criticism--is very suspect to me...

ok, i can totally understand looking at it like this. i don't know the history of that newspaper at all, which is why i questioned the effectiveness of the cartoon earlier in the thread. if it's not meant to spark conversation about the issue, then i totally understand the outrage.

[djklas]

I saw a show on BET a few weeks back called "Hot Ghetto Mess" (hosted by Charlie Murphy)... the name may be a little misleading but one of the segments was about snitching and encouraging people to snitch.... it's actually a pretty good show. encouraging people to do the right thing and treat each other right.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/16/entertainment/main3060771.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3060771

I myself have a conflict about snitching.... where I came up it was not cool to snitch.... when shit went down we resolved it ourselves.... usually through more negative action.... people were hurt... looking back it was not cool... but it was what we knew at the time....

[Phyllis Hyman Cherry]

Brazenmuse you know i love u to death,but snitches sleep with fishes!

[BrazenMuse]

Brazenmuse you know i love u to death,but snitches sleep with fishes!
only if you can figure out they snitched!

[BrazenMuse]

what if it had said, "now that's a good little nigga,"? there are limits to how far these things should go. "ho" and cartooning black stereotypes crosses the line, imo...
in its context and for its subject matter "ho" makes sense where "nigga" wouldn't. Seems to me that a purpose is being served here and that ALL of the problems revolving around the Stop Snitchin' business are being targeted by the cartoonist. I'm fine with that. I'm hoping it makes some people do some serious thinking...

[Phyllis Hyman Cherry]

Dudes get shot up just for the assumption that they snitched.

[BrazenMuse]

Dudes get shot up just for the assumption that they snitched.
Agreed. But I try to stay out of these places...

[djmarbll]

It IS a bit of a "stereotype" - don't fall into the trap of forgetting that each stereotype has a historical context...and they often reflect something about socioeconomic truths from their originating era.

But you are right...the outrage is misdirected.

I think the outrage is misdirected, but what makes it offensive to me is that a white cartoonist, put it in a white paper that was ok'd by a white editor, and white people have no problem with it, which points to a much deeper problem than just women being called ho's or black men throwing their live away by being rappers. When you come from an aesthetic of privilege, its harder to see the intricacies of the non-dominant cultures around you. Imagine if the Chicago Defender, the Amsterdam News, Ebony, Jet, Vibe, Black Enterprise, or ANY African-American based magazine or newspaper ran a cartoon about a white kid shooting up his school and there was an billboard for enrolling in Columbine High School or the other high schools where students have been killed at the hands of a young white male? Who'd be offended then? My point is that many whites think that only the "hood" (where non-white people live) is where violence takes place so they'll clutch their valuables when non black people come around, thinking they're the enemy, while little Billy's learning how to make bombs in the basement in the suburbs. Then people are shocked when an event like Columbine happens because something like that is only supposed to happen in the city like Denver, where the "underpriviliged" are, and not in upper middle-class Columbine, where only six black people were enrolled in the high school.

In addition, people are totally missing the boat when they think that "no snitching" is a new thing that just started when Camron said he wouldn't snitch if a killer lived in his building. History is enough to tell you why blacks don't snitch in the "hood", but if anyone missed it, I'll make it plain: MANY BLACK PEOPLE DON'T TRUST THE POLICE. Even blacks who don't live in the "hood" per se, still got what Paul Mooney calls "the nigger wake up call", just ask O.J. Furthermore, the billboard in the cartoon misses a very important point. Most buyers of rap music aren't black or Hispanic, they're white. As a result, many times the image portrayed of gangsta rappers feeds into a buffoonistic and coon-like image of black men that dates back to the minstrel days, where the primary buying audience were white people. Now about 100 years later, rap has reached that point as a genre. I'm kinda partial to Malcolm X when he felt that whatever issues are going on in the black community need to be addressed by the black community before it goes anywhere else, otherwise it'll be used as ammunition against you. And as much as I dislike the NAACP, had they not done anything, that editorial would be added fuel for people to say that blacks are just like savages. Imagery is most often much more powerful than words.

[djmarbll]

in its context and for its subject matter "ho" makes sense where "nigga" wouldn't. Seems to me that a purpose is being served here and that ALL of the problems revolving around the Stop Snitchin' business are being targeted by the cartoonist. I'm fine with that. I'm hoping it makes some people do some serious thinking...

I just feel that the cartoon would have been more effective to be brought up in an African-American publication and not one where the target audience is non-black. It's just suspect imo when negative issues about black people are brought up in white newspapers, especially when many issues affecting black people are based on institutions and a mentality that wasn't created by them.

[BrazenMuse]

I just feel that the cartoon would have been more effective to be brought up in an African-American publication and not one where the target audience is non-black. It's just suspect imo when negative issues about black people are brought up in white newspapers, especially when many issues affecting black people are based on institutions and a mentality that wasn't created by them.

I hear you. I understand that sentiment, and t would hv been nice, but the artist who conceived it worked for that paper...I'd rather have the image out there for people to think about, whether black, white or whatever.

institutions = not "created" by anyONE, but developed over time by nasty/negative socioeconomic forces and the agents of those forces...

mentality = in some ways perpetuated and exacerbated by people suffering from them. There's plenty of responsibility to go around.

[dekmusic]

it's offensive when folks is gettin shot and killed ...the cartoon exemplifies
what some people already do when they see or are associated with acts of violence or criminal activity ........they keep their mouths shut......the cartoonist that drew this was he caucassian or african american and would it make a diffrenece? would placing some wiggas/ blacktinos/ asians / indians /religious sects in the pic make it any less offensive as some see it .......


off with his head.............said the town locals........

people need to wake up...stuff is happen all around us, this cartoon only brings to lite what this cartoonist views as cause for controversy and disscussion ... folks always find fault when their is some truth.... sterotypical of course but once again ... street rules often prevail.....no matter what color you are .......

usual response

i didn't see anything
i don't want to get involved
i don't know what happened

[martino]

I just feel that the cartoon would have been more effective to be brought up in an African-American publication and not one where the target audience is non-black. It's just suspect imo when negative issues about black people are brought up in white newspapers, especially when many issues affecting black people are based on institutions and a mentality that wasn't created by them.

So the purpose of the cartoon changes depending on the audience. Rather than just be social commentary, it is now ammunition for ridicule.

That's like if you had a fat sister. You can call her fat-ass all day long, but some dude on the street walking by calling her fat gets his ass beat by you. Either way, she needs to lose weight.

End of the day it's about fear and division once again.

[BrazenMuse]

it's offensive when folks is gettin shot and killed ...the cartoon exemplifies
what some people already do when they see or are associated with acts of violence or criminal activity ........they keep their mouths shut......the cartoonist that drew this was he caucassian or african american and would it make a diffrenece? would placing some wiggas/ blacktinos/ asians / indians /religious sects in the pic make it any less offensive as some see it .......


off with his head.............said the town locals........

people need to wake up...stuff is happen all around us, this cartoon only brings to lite what this cartoonist views as cause for controversy and disscussion ... folks always find fault when their is some truth.... sterotypical of course but once again ... street rules often prevail.....no matter what color you are .......

usual response

i didn't see anything
i don't want to get involved
i don't know what happened

...and since we are constantly bitchin' about the stop snitchin' we need to not be castin' stones for someone calling people on that same bs!

[dekmusic]

...and since we are constantly bitchin' about the stop snitchin' we need to not be castin' stones for someone calling people on that same bs!


you are so correct brazen... this is a social problem...

i'm sure peeps feel it's okay to keep secrets ..and yes folks have been killed for snitchin' or thought to had done so... are the guide lines of protection in place for those that do are the hotlines working, will cameras and gun sensors work will folks turn in the pediophile relative ,local known abuser, local pharmacutical distributers ? law enforcement thinks so but those that are in the positions to do something about unscrupulous activity as in report ,identify and testify against the perpetrators may feel that they have too much to loose in the way of life , family , property and their pursuit of a peacful meaningful exsistance ...

so many allow the the nonsense that has and continues to occur in many of our cities and communities... use to be trouble makers were tar and feathered and run out of town

it may take something as disturbing as this depiction for folks to realize that this deep seeded issue will not change until citizens do what is considered their civic duty.....


many of us would be in a quandary as to what to do given an extreme situation where telling would cause death because of something viewed ..

[djmarbll]

So the purpose of the cartoon changes depending on the audience. Rather than just be social commentary, it is now ammunition for ridicule.

That's like if you had a fat sister. You can call her fat-ass all day long, but some dude on the street walking by calling her fat gets his ass beat by you. Either way, she needs to lose weight.

End of the day it's about fear and division once again.

Your sister example excludes the fact that she's still my sister and I love her as a family member, so I can call her whatever I want, she's still my sister and blood. Someone on the street who calls her out of her name doesn't have the same connection. I wonder if ANYONE in the chain of command at that newspaper has a connection to ANYONE from the "hood". And if they don't, what's the point of pointing out a problem in the inner city that helps to fuel the animosity and false ideology that "if I move my white family to the suburbs, we can escape violence"? On top of that, the image reinforces the false notion that blacks are criminals. Thus giving credence as to why more blacks are in jail, even thouhg more crimes are committed by whites on a given day. I may be reading more into this than most, but I know how powerful images can be and the more I look at the picture, the more offended I become.

[BrazenMuse]

Your sister example excludes the fact that she's still my sister and I love her as a family member, so I can call her whatever I want, she's still my sister and blood. Someone on the street who calls her out of her name doesn't have the same connection. I wonder if ANYONE in the chain of command at that newspaper has a connection to ANYONE from the "hood". And if they don't, what's the point of pointing out a problem in the inner city that helps to fuel the animosity and false ideology that "if I move my white family to the suburbs, we can escape violence"? On top of that, the image reinforces the false notion that blacks are criminals. Thus giving credence as to why more blacks are in jail, even thouhg more crimes are committed by whites on a given day. I may be reading more into this than most, but I know how powerful images can be and the more I look at the picture, the more offended I become.

So the surface message of ironic stance and a pretty solid critique of some shyt that needs to stop is immaterial? I'd think that many of the people who see that will understand the ironic commentary for exactly what it is.There are those who will misread it, but tht's true of anything...