Some Alarming Shit... [Archive] - Deep House Page Forums

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 01:25 PM

Some of the most fearsome and hard core brothers in the world came through my environment. All of them spoke like scholars. Whenever they used words and phrases I didn't understand, I enjoyed it. Whenever they handed me a dictionary to look up some word I misused, it felt good - it felt as if someone actually cared about this orphan.

Why are well constructed statements that are structured with an emphasis on effective communication perceived as ARROGANT or CONDESCENDING? Why does something that makes you think beyond the bounds of your current perception perceived as some attempt to "change" your "mind"?

When I encounter someone, anyone, I expect that person to be no less educated or intelligent as I. Over the years, I have come to understand the value of the word. Until human beings develop mental telepathy, the word is all we have to affect and be effected. That one possesses more power over communication than another doesn't make them arrogant. That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you.

Is it possible that smarts are still derided in this day and age?

My older brother told me once - "Danny, you have a great ability to lead...and an even greater ability to MISLEAD." That really shocked me - because it was very wise. When you toss around words and terms that you are only vaguely familiar with, that is potentially misleading. When you pop-off with a judgement before you actually understand both sides, that is potentially misleading. When you take sides before you determine whether or not it is any of your business to be concerned, that is potentially misleading.

I communicate on the DHP as if my words could have a profound effect on someone. That is the price I have to pay to enjoy the environment here. If you feel me, fine. If not, that's ok as well. But if you perpetually bring weak shit and run off and accuse those who deconstruct your weak shit as being arrogant and/or condescending, you're missing the opportunity to learn through participation.

mhd

06-19-2003, 01:35 PM

your comment reminds me of something Shalewa wrote a couple of days ago, don't remember what she said, just that it was complex and required some thinking and effort, in other words, it was ignored. My reply to her and to you, is that most people operate on an lcd mtv/bet level

Shannon

06-19-2003, 01:41 PM

Speak your message Danny. You have listeners bro. graemlins/respekt.gif

Koffy Brown

06-19-2003, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some of the most fearsome and hard core brothers in the world came through my environment. All of them spoke like scholars. Whenever they used words and phrases I didn't understand, I enjoyed it. Whenever they handed me a dictionary to look up some word I misused, it felt good - it felt as if someone actually cared about this orphan.

Why are well constructed statements that are structured with an emphasis on effective communication perceived as ARROGANT or CONDESCENDING? Why does something that makes you think beyond the bounds of your current perception perceived as some attempt to "change" your "mind"?

When I encounter someone, anyone, I expect that person to be no less educated or intelligent as I. Over the years, I have come to understand the value of the word. Until human beings develop mental telepathy, the word is all we have to affect and be effected. That one possesses more power over communication than another doesn't make them arrogant. That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you.

Is it possible that smarts are still derided in this day and age?

My older brother told me once - "Danny, you have a great ability to lead...and an even greater ability to MISLEAD." That really shocked me - because it was very wise. When you toss around words and terms that you are only vaguely familiar with, that is potentially misleading. When you pop-off with a judgement before you actually understand both sides, that is potentially misleading. When you take sides before you determine whether or not it is any of your business to be concerned, that is potentially misleading.

I communicate on the DHP as if my words could have a profound effect on someone. That is the price I have to pay to enjoy the environment here. If you feel me, fine. If not, that's ok as well. But if you perpetually bring weak shit and run off and accuse those who deconstruct your weak shit as being arrogant and/or condescending, you're missing the opportunity to learn through participation. Did you post this for vent purposes only or for fans, or for foes, or for response?

Tristan

06-19-2003, 01:47 PM

I thoroughly enjoy reading your responses/ideas.

Speak on.

mhd

06-19-2003, 01:52 PM

how can you be a foe of someone you never met?

Ken1015

06-19-2003, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
how can you be a foe of someone you never met? I don't like you and we've never met. biggrinangel.gif

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 01:54 PM

Koffy Brown

06-19-2003, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
how can you be a foe of someone you never met? ...anyway...

That one possesses more power over communication than another doesn't make them arrogant. That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you.
graemlins/rofl.gif

mhd

06-19-2003, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Soulful1015:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
how can you be a foe of someone you never met? I don't like you and we've never met. biggrinangel.gif [/QUOTE]that's cool, but a foe is a bit much

Ken1015

06-19-2003, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Soulful1015:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
how can you be a foe of someone you never met? I don't like you and we've never met. biggrinangel.gif [/QUOTE]that's cool, but a foe is a bit much [/QUOTE]Good point. I was just messing with you anyway.

Koffy Brown

06-19-2003, 01:59 PM

Koffy Brown

06-19-2003, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some of the most fearsome and hard core brothers in the world came through my environment. All of them spoke like scholars. Whenever they used words and phrases I didn't understand, I enjoyed it. Whenever they handed me a dictionary to look up some word I misused, it felt good - it felt as if someone actually cared about this orphan.

Why are well constructed statements that are structured with an emphasis on effective communication perceived as ARROGANT or CONDESCENDING? Why does something that makes you think beyond the bounds of your current perception perceived as some attempt to "change" your "mind"?

When I encounter someone, anyone, I expect that person to be no less educated or intelligent as I. Over the years, I have come to understand the value of the word. Until human beings develop mental telepathy, the word is all we have to affect and be effected. That one possesses more power over communication than another doesn't make them arrogant. That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you.

Is it possible that smarts are still derided in this day and age?

My older brother told me once - "Danny, you have a great ability to lead...and an even greater ability to MISLEAD." That really shocked me - because it was very wise. When you toss around words and terms that you are only vaguely familiar with, that is potentially misleading. When you pop-off with a judgement before you actually understand both sides, that is potentially misleading. When you take sides before you determine whether or not it is any of your business to be concerned, that is potentially misleading.

I communicate on the DHP as if my words could have a profound effect on someone. That is the price I have to pay to enjoy the environment here. If you feel me, fine. If not, that's ok as well. But if you perpetually bring weak shit and run off and accuse those who deconstruct your weak shit as being arrogant and/or condescending, you're missing the opportunity to learn through participation. Bold, I too think that you make some very interesting and thought provoking posts...but why do you think that everyone can learn something through your posts and your way of thinking? Why do you think that you possess power over communication? Why do you think that you speak authority borne of education? Why should everyone view your posts as you view your posts? Why do you think everyone should agree with your posts? Why do you think that you are always offering another view, but yet you get so stuck on making your point? If you have this communicative authority power that you claim to possess, then why do you think you needed to create this thread?

just giving you another way to look at it brotha..

mhd

06-19-2003, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Soulful1015:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
how can you be a foe of someone you never met? I don't like you and we've never met. biggrinangel.gif [/QUOTE]that's cool, but a foe is a bit much [/QUOTE]foe vs. nigger...hmmmm [/QUOTE]my nigga

MYOR

06-19-2003, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some of the most fearsome and hard core brothers in the world came through my environment. All of them spoke like scholars. Whenever they used words and phrases I didn't understand, I enjoyed it. Whenever they handed me a dictionary to look up some word I misused, it felt good - it felt as if someone actually cared about this orphan.

Why are well constructed statements that are structured with an emphasis on effective communication perceived as ARROGANT or CONDESCENDING? Why does something that makes you think beyond the bounds of your current perception perceived as some attempt to "change" your "mind"?

When I encounter someone, anyone, I expect that person to be no less educated or intelligent as I. Over the years, I have come to understand the value of the word. Until human beings develop mental telepathy, the word is all we have to affect and be effected. That one possesses more power over communication than another doesn't make them arrogant. That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you.

Is it possible that smarts are still derided in this day and age?

My older brother told me once - "Danny, you have a great ability to lead...and an even greater ability to MISLEAD." That really shocked me - because it was very wise. When you toss around words and terms that you are only vaguely familiar with, that is potentially misleading. When you pop-off with a judgement before you actually understand both sides, that is potentially misleading. When you take sides before you determine whether or not it is any of your business to be concerned, that is potentially misleading.

I communicate on the DHP as if my words could have a profound effect on someone. That is the price I have to pay to enjoy the environment here. If you feel me, fine. If not, that's ok as well. But if you perpetually bring weak shit and run off and accuse those who deconstruct your weak shit as being arrogant and/or condescending, you're missing the opportunity to learn through participation. Bold, I too think that you make some very interesting and thought provoking posts...but why do you think that everyone can learn something through your posts and your way of thinking? Why do you think that you possess power over communication? Why do you think that you speak authority borne of education? Why should everyone view your posts as you view your posts? Why do you think everyone should agree with your posts? Why do you think that you are always offering another view, but yet you get so stuck on making your point? If you have this communicative authority power that you claim to possess, then why do you think you needed to create this thread?

just giving you another way to look at it brotha.. [/QUOTE]http://deephousepage.com/smilies/hidesbehindsofa.gif

And

06-19-2003, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some of the most fearsome and hard core brothers in the world came through my environment. All of them spoke like scholars. Whenever they used words and phrases I didn't understand, I enjoyed it. Whenever they handed me a dictionary to look up some word I misused, it felt good - it felt as if someone actually cared about this orphan.

Why are well constructed statements that are structured with an emphasis on effective communication perceived as ARROGANT or CONDESCENDING? Why does something that makes you think beyond the bounds of your current perception perceived as some attempt to "change" your "mind"?

When I encounter someone, anyone, I expect that person to be no less educated or intelligent as I. Over the years, I have come to understand the value of the word. Until human beings develop mental telepathy, the word is all we have to affect and be effected. That one possesses more power over communication than another doesn't make them arrogant. That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you.

Is it possible that smarts are still derided in this day and age?

My older brother told me once - "Danny, you have a great ability to lead...and an even greater ability to MISLEAD." That really shocked me - because it was very wise. When you toss around words and terms that you are only vaguely familiar with, that is potentially misleading. When you pop-off with a judgement before you actually understand both sides, that is potentially misleading. When you take sides before you determine whether or not it is any of your business to be concerned, that is potentially misleading.

I communicate on the DHP as if my words could have a profound effect on someone. That is the price I have to pay to enjoy the environment here. If you feel me, fine. If not, that's ok as well. But if you perpetually bring weak shit and run off and accuse those who deconstruct your weak shit as being arrogant and/or condescending, you're missing the opportunity to learn through participation. Bold, I too think that you make some very interesting and thought provoking posts...but why do you think that everyone can learn something through your posts and your way of thinking? Why do you think that you possess power over communication? Why do you think that you speak authority borne of education? Why should everyone view your posts as you view your posts? Why do you think everyone should agree with your posts? Why do you think that you are always offering another view, but yet you get so stuck on making your point? If you have this communicative authority power that you claim to possess, then why do you think you needed to create this thread?

just giving you another way to look at it brotha.. [/QUOTE]http://deephousepage.com/smilies/hidesbehindsofa.gif [/QUOTE]I said she was engaging didn't I? icon_rofl.gif

DJJM3.COM

06-19-2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Is it possible that smarts are still derided in this day and age?

Yes, very much so..............

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some of the most fearsome and hard core brothers in the world came through my environment. All of them spoke like scholars. Whenever they used words and phrases I didn't understand, I enjoyed it. Whenever they handed me a dictionary to look up some word I misused, it felt good - it felt as if someone actually cared about this orphan.

Why are well constructed statements that are structured with an emphasis on effective communication perceived as ARROGANT or CONDESCENDING? Why does something that makes you think beyond the bounds of your current perception perceived as some attempt to "change" your "mind"?

When I encounter someone, anyone, I expect that person to be no less educated or intelligent as I. Over the years, I have come to understand the value of the word. Until human beings develop mental telepathy, the word is all we have to affect and be effected. That one possesses more power over communication than another doesn't make them arrogant. That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you.

Is it possible that smarts are still derided in this day and age?

My older brother told me once - "Danny, you have a great ability to lead...and an even greater ability to MISLEAD." That really shocked me - because it was very wise. When you toss around words and terms that you are only vaguely familiar with, that is potentially misleading. When you pop-off with a judgement before you actually understand both sides, that is potentially misleading. When you take sides before you determine whether or not it is any of your business to be concerned, that is potentially misleading.

I communicate on the DHP as if my words could have a profound effect on someone. That is the price I have to pay to enjoy the environment here. If you feel me, fine. If not, that's ok as well. But if you perpetually bring weak shit and run off and accuse those who deconstruct your weak shit as being arrogant and/or condescending, you're missing the opportunity to learn through participation. Bold, I too think that you make some very interesting and thought provoking posts...but why do you think that everyone can learn something through your posts and your way of thinking? Why do you think that you possess power over communication? Why do you think that you speak authority borne of education? Why should everyone view your posts as you view your posts? Why do you think everyone should agree with your posts? Why do you think that you are always offering another view, but yet you get so stuck on making your point? If you have this communicative authority power that you claim to possess, then why do you think you needed to create this thread?

just giving you another way to look at it brotha.. [/QUOTE]My purpose of this post, frankly is to warn people that the crabs in a barrel shit is a bit too much on the DHP. Folks like girlfriday, mhd, Jamie Lennox, Buddy Love and many others never come with that "Shut up, you know it all" bullshit like you and your tribe do, Ashaki.

That is what I mean about "That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you." For some reason, a SELECT CONSISTENT number of you feel that any display of confidence is a mission to be better than you.

Baby - I'm not even thinking about you.

As I said, I bring it how I bring it. It goes beyond simple ignoring or overlooking - you, for one, take it to a level of ONE-UPMANSHIP. And your crew (at least those of a like mind who have clustered together lately) have determined that I am coming with some "I'm better than you bullshit."

Bottom line - some of us know we are the shit. Some of us work very hard at being the shit. Some of us decide not to mute ourselves to help another's self-esteem. That you could come with this post shows you have some issues, and I ain't your therapist. Don't make me less to make yourself feel better.

mhd

06-19-2003, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Soulful1015:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Soulful1015:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
how can you be a foe of someone you never met? I don't like you and we've never met. biggrinangel.gif [/QUOTE]that's cool, but a foe is a bit much [/QUOTE]Good point. I was just messing with you anyway. [/QUOTE]i know, i would have done the same

MYOR

06-19-2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
[/qb]Bold, I too think that you make some very interesting and thought provoking posts...but why do you think that everyone can learn something through your posts and your way of thinking? Why do you think that you possess power over communication? Why do you think that you speak authority borne of education? Why should everyone view your posts as you view your posts? Why do you think everyone should agree with your posts? Why do you think that you are always offering another view, but yet you get so stuck on making your point? If you have this communicative authority power that you claim to possess, then why do you think you needed to create this thread?

just giving you another way to look at it brotha.. [/qb][/QUOTE]My purpose of this post, frankly is to warn people that the crabs in a barrel shit is a bit too much on the DHP. Folks like girlfriday, mhd, Jamie Lennox, Buddy Love and many others never come with that "Shut up, you know it all" bullshit like you and your tribe do, Ashaki.

That is what I mean about "That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you." For some reason, a SELECT CONSISTENT number of you feel that any display of confidence is a mission to be better than you.

Baby - I'm not even thinking about you.

As I said, I bring it how I bring it. It goes beyond simple ignoring or overlooking - you, for one, take it to a level of ONE-UPMANSHIP. And your crew (at least those of a like mind who have clustered together lately) have determined that I am coming with some "I'm better than you bullshit."

Bottom line - some of us know we are the shit. Some of us work very hard at being the shit. Some of us decide not to mute ourselves to help another's self-esteem. That you could come with this post shows you have some issues, and I ain't your therapist. Don't make me less to make yourself feel better. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Why do you come you come across so condescending?? AR15firing.gif

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 02:41 PM

You know, the DHP has always been a place where learning always followed disagreement.

That said, there has been just a ridiculous amount of the activity of zeroing in on and countering someone just because someone doesn't like them. That, and cheap shots are rampant. I've been searching through my most recent posts and I can see at least two occasions where I have foolishly been drawn-in by some really foul energy/intention.

Honestly, it's like a free-for-all lately.

mhd

06-19-2003, 02:41 PM

isn't that an interpretation by the recipient?

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Bold, I too think that you make some very interesting and thought provoking posts...but why do you think that everyone can learn something through your posts and your way of thinking? Why do you think that you possess power over communication? Why do you think that you speak authority borne of education? Why should everyone view your posts as you view your posts? Why do you think everyone should agree with your posts? Why do you think that you are always offering another view, but yet you get so stuck on making your point? If you have this communicative authority power that you claim to possess, then why do you think you needed to create this thread?

just giving you another way to look at it brotha.. [/qb][/QUOTE]My purpose of this post, frankly is to warn people that the crabs in a barrel shit is a bit too much on the DHP. Folks like girlfriday, mhd, Jamie Lennox, Buddy Love and many others never come with that "Shut up, you know it all" bullshit like you and your tribe do, Ashaki.

That is what I mean about "That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you." For some reason, a SELECT CONSISTENT number of you feel that any display of confidence is a mission to be better than you.

Baby - I'm not even thinking about you.

As I said, I bring it how I bring it. It goes beyond simple ignoring or overlooking - you, for one, take it to a level of ONE-UPMANSHIP. And your crew (at least those of a like mind who have clustered together lately) have determined that I am coming with some "I'm better than you bullshit."

Bottom line - some of us know we are the shit. Some of us work very hard at being the shit. Some of us decide not to mute ourselves to help another's self-esteem. That you could come with this post shows you have some issues, and I ain't your therapist. Don't make me less to make yourself feel better. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Why do you come you come across so condescending?? AR15firing.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]

Condescension implies intent. I've invited you to get to know me on what makes three occasions now. I'm not what you perceive me to be - check me out and see. But then, when you learn otherwise, you'll have to abandon that comfortable position you've taken.

And

06-19-2003, 02:45 PM

GROOVE VICTIM

06-19-2003, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
isn't that an interpretation by the recipient? I'm going home tonight to read my dictionary and thesaurus.

MYOR

06-19-2003, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Why do you come you come across so condescending?? AR15firing.gif [/QB]Condescension implies intent. I've invited you to get to know me on what makes three occasions now. I'm not what you perceive me to be - check me out and see. But then, when you learn otherwise, you'll have to abandon that comfortable position you've taken. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Bold, Like you have stated in the past I can only judge you by what you write... If you like I can go and find that for you... And from what I've seen thats how you come across. I can only see what you allow me to see...

Why do I need to meet you to find out the real Bold Soul??

BTW, I haven't taken any position...

GROOVE VICTIM

06-19-2003, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by 6 23:
The effective part is when both people can see each other's sides (even if they don't agree). This is the issue at hand IMO.

Peace

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
The effective part is when both people can see each other's sides (even if they don't agree). This is the issue at hand IMO.

Peace [/QUOTE]Yes, it is.

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Why do you come you come across so condescending?? AR15firing.gif Condescension implies intent. I've invited you to get to know me on what makes three occasions now. I'm not what you perceive me to be - check me out and see. But then, when you learn otherwise, you'll have to abandon that comfortable position you've taken. [/QB][/QUOTE]Bold, Like you have stated in the past I can only judge you by what you write... If you like I can go and find that for you... And from what I've seen thats how you come across. I can only see what you allow me to see...

Why do I need to meet you to find out the real Bold Soul??

BTW, I haven't taken any position... [/QB][/QUOTE]

I'll tell you what - take me, leave me or continue to counter me. Only you will know for sure whether or not you are actually living up to your highest potential.

And

06-19-2003, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MYOR:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Why do you come you come across so condescending?? AR15firing.gif Condescension implies intent. I've invited you to get to know me on what makes three occasions now. I'm not what you perceive me to be - check me out and see. But then, when you learn otherwise, you'll have to abandon that comfortable position you've taken. Bold, Like you have stated in the past I can only judge you by what you write... If you like I can go and find that for you... And from what I've seen thats how you come across. I can only see what you allow me to see...

Why do I need to meet you to find out the real Bold Soul??

BTW, I haven't taken any position... [/QB]I'll tell you what - take me, leave me or continue to counter me. Only you will know for sure whether or not you are actually living up to your highest potential. [/QB]Is it possible that the same way you're seeing people "counter" you is the same way they're seeing you "counter" them?

[ June 19, 2003, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: 6 23 ]

Koffy Brown

06-19-2003, 03:04 PM

My purpose of this post, frankly is to warn people that the crabs in a barrel shit is a bit too much on the DHP. Folks like girlfriday, mhd, Jamie Lennox, Buddy Love and many others never come with that "Shut up, you know it all" bullshit like you and your tribe do, Ashaki.

So basically they agree with you, that's why they are alright with you and those who disagree become a tribe and we "gang up" against you...

That is what I mean about "That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you." For some reason, a SELECT CONSISTENT number of you feel that any display of confidence is a mission to be better than you.

By all means be confident, but what does that have to do with me and others not agreeing with you. Who in the hell said that you were on a mission to be better than one. I don't think that there is a man or woman that walks this God given earth who is better than me in any form, and I don't think that I am better than others...what is really the point here?

Baby - I'm not even thinking about you.

ummm okay....

As I said, I bring it how I bring it. It goes beyond simple ignoring or overlooking - you, for one, take it to a level of ONE-UPMANSHIP. And your crew (at least those of a like mind who have clustered together lately) have determined that I am coming with some "I'm better than you bullshit."

What crew...what crew? your better than who? Your the one who said you have some type of communicative authority OVER others...Let's clear the air...I DO NOT THINK THAT YOU ARE BETTER THAN ME...PERIOD....

Bottom line - some of us know we are the shit. graemlins/rofl.gif Some of us work very hard at being the shit. graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif (while some of you work very hard at it, some of us are naturals)...

Some of us decide not to mute ourselves to help another's self-esteem. OH LORD THIS IS ****ING HILLARIOUS graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif That you could come with this post shows you have some issues, and I ain't your therapist. Don't make me less to make yourself feel better.

OKAY...okay...I offically have tears rolling down my eyes...I have issues huh... graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

HOLLERIN http://deephousepage.com/smilies/lach.gif

[ June 19, 2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]

D J 1 3 8

06-19-2003, 03:07 PM

me me me
blah blah blah

Just do your thing, bro.

Keep posting and I will keep reading. I may agree, or I may not. From what you post, I may form an opinion of you that is different from your opinion of yourself, or I may not. Don't sweat it.

At the end of day, I think we all appreciate the variety of opinions and perspectives that make this board interesting to begin with.

MYOR

06-19-2003, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Why do you come you come across so condescending?? AR15firing.gif Condescension implies intent. I've invited you to get to know me on what makes three occasions now. I'm not what you perceive me to be - check me out and see. But then, when you learn otherwise, you'll have to abandon that comfortable position you've taken. [/QUOTE]Bold, Like you have stated in the past I can only judge you by what you write... If you like I can go and find that for you... And from what I've seen thats how you come across. I can only see what you allow me to see...

Why do I need to meet you to find out the real Bold Soul??

BTW, I haven't taken any position... [/QB][/QUOTE]I'll tell you what - take me, leave me or continue to counter me. Only you will know for sure whether or not you are actually living up to your highest potential. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Do me and yourself a favor and read thru your post. Its ok for you to challenge people its just not ok when you decide to belittle us becuase we don't agree... You've even tried to belittle me.. If you like I can find that for you also..

IMO, you should change your name to "Sometimes Bold Soul" graemlins/rofl.gif
You do make a lot of sense in certain (not all) things you say you just can't handle if people challenge you.. If you don't agree, Do me and yourself a favor and read thru your post. Its ok for you to challenge people its just not ok when you decide to belittle us becuase we don't agree... You've even tried to belittle me.. If you like I can find that for you also..

With all that said,I will take you and continue to counter graemlins/remybussi.gif

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Why do you come you come across so condescending?? AR15firing.gif Condescension implies intent. I've invited you to get to know me on what makes three occasions now. I'm not what you perceive me to be - check me out and see. But then, when you learn otherwise, you'll have to abandon that comfortable position you've taken. [/QUOTE]Bold, Like you have stated in the past I can only judge you by what you write... If you like I can go and find that for you... And from what I've seen thats how you come across. I can only see what you allow me to see...

Why do I need to meet you to find out the real Bold Soul??

BTW, I haven't taken any position... [/QUOTE]I'll tell you what - take me, leave me or continue to counter me. Only you will know for sure whether or not you are actually living up to your highest potential. [/QB][/QUOTE]Do me and yourself a favor and read thru your post. Its ok for you to challenge people its just not ok when you decide to belittle us becuase we don't agree... You've even tried to belittle me.. If you like I can find that for you also..

IMO, you should change your name to "Sometimes Bold Soul" graemlins/rofl.gif
You do make a lot of sense in certain (not all) things you say you just can't handle if people challenge you.. If you don't agree, Do me and yourself a favor and read thru your post. Its ok for you to challenge people its just not ok when you decide to belittle us becuase we don't agree... You've even tried to belittle me.. If you like I can find that for you also..

With all that said,I will take you and continue to counter graemlins/remybussi.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]

Ah, the pleasure of being one-upped. It's like being on the bottom. Not much work, but OH, so much fun.

And, for the record, I looooove challenges. Bring me a real one. You'll see.

[ June 19, 2003, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

Discogoddess

06-19-2003, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
My purpose of this post, frankly is to warn people that the crabs in a barrel shit is a bit too much on the DHP. Folks like girlfriday, mhd, Jamie Lennox, Buddy Love and many others never come with that "Shut up, you know it all" bullshit like you and your tribe do, Ashaki.
@BoldSoul: Does this mean that you only read, reflect on, consider and agree with the views put forth by those whom you feel "never come up with the 'shut up you know it all' bullshit"? Does this mean that other people's posts/views are inconsequential to you, or that you will write off anything and everything they have to say, because you've already placed them in certain categories?

I don't know you. I only know what I've seen in recent threads, and I am struggling to understand how a person who portrays himself as a voice of of thoughtful consideration of all viewpoints and rational debate can so easily seem to put words in the mouths of posters with whom you disagree. Though this might support your cabal theory, I'll use your treatment of Ashaki's words in this very thread as an example. You stated that since she typed a particular response to you, she must have "issues", and you're not her therapist. Isn't that sort of "if, then" logic somewhere on your Logical Fallacies listing?

And, in speaking about your cabal theory, you've stated that certain posters cluster together and provide yes-man services for one another (e.g., the "MEN..." thread; your response to Ashaki in this thread). Conviently, the clusterers you mention are people who don't always, sometimes or ever agree with your veiwpoints.

[ June 19, 2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Discogoddess ]

Koffy Brown

06-19-2003, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
My purpose of this post, frankly is to warn people that the crabs in a barrel shit is a bit too much on the DHP. Folks like girlfriday, mhd, Jamie Lennox, Buddy Love and many others never come with that "Shut up, you know it all" bullshit like you and your tribe do, Ashaki.
@BoldSoul: Does this mean that you only read, reflect on, consider and agree with the views put forth by those whom you feel "never come up with the 'shut up you know it all' bullshit"? DOes this mean that other people's posts/views are inconsequential to you, or that you will write off anything and everything they have to say, because you've already placed them in certain categories?

I don't know you. I only know what I've seen in recent threads, and I am struggling to understand how a person who portrays himself as a voice of of thoughtful consideration of all viewpoints and rational debate can so easily seem to put words in the mouths of posters with whom you disagree. Though this might use this to support your cabal theory, I'll use your treatment of Ashaki's words in this very thread as an example. You stated that since she typed a particular response to you, she must have "issues", and you're not her therapist. Isn't that sort of "if, then" logic somewhere on your Logical Fallacies listing?

And, in speaking about your cabal theory, you've stated that certain posters cluster together and provide yes-man services for one another (e.g., the "MEN..." thread;your response to Ashaki in this thread). Conviently, the clusterers you mention are people who don't always, sometimes or ever agree with your veiwpoints. How would you like it if someone said that you and certain others were basically only co-signing each others' posts, implying that you did not and could not come up with your own thoughtful responses without being propped up by others? [/QUOTE]You noticed that too...

How would you like it if someone said that you and certain others were basically only co-signing each others' posts, implying that you did not and could not come up with your own thoughtful responses without being propped up by others?

Discogoddess

06-19-2003, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Discogoddess:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
My purpose of this post, frankly is to warn people that the crabs in a barrel shit is a bit too much on the DHP. Folks like girlfriday, mhd, Jamie Lennox, Buddy Love and many others never come with that "Shut up, you know it all" bullshit like you and your tribe do, Ashaki.
@BoldSoul: Does this mean that you only read, reflect on, consider and agree with the views put forth by those whom you feel "never come up with the 'shut up you know it all' bullshit"? DOes this mean that other people's posts/views are inconsequential to you, or that you will write off anything and everything they have to say, because you've already placed them in certain categories?

I don't know you. I only know what I've seen in recent threads, and I am struggling to understand how a person who portrays himself as a voice of of thoughtful consideration of all viewpoints and rational debate can so easily seem to put words in the mouths of posters with whom you disagree. Though this might use this to support your cabal theory, I'll use your treatment of Ashaki's words in this very thread as an example. You stated that since she typed a particular response to you, she must have "issues", and you're not her therapist. Isn't that sort of "if, then" logic somewhere on your Logical Fallacies listing?

And, in speaking about your cabal theory, you've stated that certain posters cluster together and provide yes-man services for one another (e.g., the "MEN..." thread;your response to Ashaki in this thread). Conviently, the clusterers you mention are people who don't always, sometimes or ever agree with your veiwpoints. How would you like it if someone said that you and certain others were basically only co-signing each others' posts, implying that you did not and could not come up with your own thoughtful responses without being propped up by others? [/QUOTE]You noticed that too...

How would you like it if someone said that you and certain others were basically only co-signing each others' posts, implying that you did not and could not come up with your own thoughtful responses without being propped up by others? [/QUOTE]Uh oh...Ashaki, you're only fueling the belief in the myth of the Angry-Judgemental-Irrational Sistaguhls-Stick-Together-Cuz-We-Always-Gotta-Prove-A-Point-Cuz-We-Loud-And-Ignant-And-Aint-Got-Nuthin-Better-To-Do Cabal...

;)

MYOR

06-19-2003, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Why do you come you come across so condescending?? AR15firing.gif Condescension implies intent. I've invited you to get to know me on what makes three occasions now. I'm not what you perceive me to be - check me out and see. But then, when you learn otherwise, you'll have to abandon that comfortable position you've taken. [/QUOTE]Bold, Like you have stated in the past I can only judge you by what you write... If you like I can go and find that for you... And from what I've seen thats how you come across. I can only see what you allow me to see...

Why do I need to meet you to find out the real Bold Soul??

BTW, I haven't taken any position... [/QUOTE]I'll tell you what - take me, leave me or continue to counter me. Only you will know for sure whether or not you are actually living up to your highest potential. [/QUOTE]Do me and yourself a favor and read thru your post. Its ok for you to challenge people its just not ok when you decide to belittle us becuase we don't agree... You've even tried to belittle me.. If you like I can find that for you also..

IMO, you should change your name to "Sometimes Bold Soul" graemlins/rofl.gif
You do make a lot of sense in certain (not all) things you say you just can't handle if people challenge you.. If you don't agree, Do me and yourself a favor and read thru your post. Its ok for you to challenge people its just not ok when you decide to belittle us becuase we don't agree... You've even tried to belittle me.. If you like I can find that for you also..

With all that said,I will take you and continue to counter graemlins/remybussi.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]Ah, the pleasure of being one-upped. It's like being on the bottom. Not much work, but OH, so much fun.

And, for the record, I looooove challenges. Bring me a real one. You'll see. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Wow, You have major ISSUES...

I wasn't trying to one-up you.. but that is how you chose to take this.. This is the second time you have used that phrase... I think you feel everyone is trying to knock you down. Its not the case.. I'm not here to prove I'm better than you.. I certainly hope thats not what your here for either... graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 03:25 PM

Now - if we look at the posting dynamic - remove the words and just look at the names and styles -

Same people. Same rhetorical questions what don't have correct answers. Same one-upping of each point. Same clustering.

I can step out now. Thanks for playing.

Koffy Brown

06-19-2003, 03:27 PM

Discogoddess

06-19-2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Now - if we look at the posting dynamic - remove the words and just look at the names and styles -

Same people. Same rhetorical questions what don't have correct answers. Same one-upping of each point. Same clustering.

I can step out now. Thanks for playing. Actually, I would love to actually have conversation with you and have you answer any of my questions. I honestly don't understand your one-upping mantra and how it relates. And, I honestly want to know why you only seem to want to hear from certain people, and seem to discount (me, included, I suppose) the thoughts, opinions and questions of others....

What's with the taking your jacks and going home thing?

MYOR

06-19-2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Now - if we look at the posting dynamic - remove the words and just look at the names and styles -

Same people. Same rhetorical questions what don't have correct answers. Same one-upping of each point. Same clustering.

I can step out now. Thanks for playing. No, NO Thank YOU.. For once again your colors come thru.. CONDESENDING...

The smartest people in the world are also the most humble... graemlins/acclaim.gif

But I guess all the books you've read never taught you that...

[ June 19, 2003, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: MYOR ]

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Now - if we look at the posting dynamic - remove the words and just look at the names and styles -

Same people. Same rhetorical questions what don't have correct answers. Same one-upping of each point. Same clustering.

I can step out now. Thanks for playing. No, NO Thank YOU.. For once again your colors come thru.. CONDESENDING...

The smartest people in the world are also the most humble... graemlins/acclaim.gif [/QUOTE]Main Entry: 1hum·ble
Pronunciation: 'h&m-b&l also chiefly Southern '&m-
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): hum·bler /-b(&-)l&r/; hum·blest /-b(&-)l&st/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin humilis low, humble, from humus earth; akin to Greek chthOn earth, chamai on the ground
Date: 13th century
1 : not proud or haughty : not arrogant or assertive
2 : reflecting, expressing, or offered in a spirit of deference or submission <a humble apology>
3 a : ranking low in a hierarchy or scale : INSIGNIFICANT, UNPRETENTIOUS b : not costly or luxurious <a humble contraption>

Just wanted you to see how many dimensions there are in the word "humble".

Shalewa

06-19-2003, 03:40 PM

Geez, since we seem to be in the season of the rhetorical question...

How is it that assuming that folks can hang on an intellectually or linguistically challenging level and be engaged in dialogue on a rigorous level demeaning to them? Why is challenging them to look deeper into the semantic consequences of their own statements construed as putting words into their mouths? Why should folks limit their range of expression to ease others? Why would folks who feel somehow challenged by the level of discourse not move to step up their respective games? Why indeed?

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Now - if we look at the posting dynamic - remove the words and just look at the names and styles -

Same people. Same rhetorical questions what don't have correct answers. Same one-upping of each point. Same clustering.

I can step out now. Thanks for playing. Actually, I would love to actually have conversation with you and have you answer any of my questions. I honestly don't understand your one-upping mantra and how it relates. And, I honestly want to know why you only seem to want to hear from certain people, and seem to discount (me, included, I suppose) the thoughts, opinions and questions of others....

What's with the taking your jacks and going home thing? [/QUOTE]How do you answer rhetorical questions? What, I don't know what BAITING is?

Whatever - you want to start an honest dialog - hell, an HONEST DEBATE, I'm there. You want me to walk into some one-upping contest - I told you - my name ain't NEO.

BTW - I've got my girls on alert at the picnic. Mad kung-fu skills. ;)

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Shalewa:
Geez, since we seem to be in the season of the rhetorical question...

How is it that assuming that folks can hang on an intellectually or linguistically challenging level and be engaged in dialogue on a rigorous level demeaning to them? Why is challenging them to look deeper into the semantic consequences of their own statements construed as putting words into their mouths? Why should folks limit their range of expression to ease others? Why would folks who feel somehow challenged by the level of discourse not move to step up their respective games? Why indeed? My compliments. It's nice to see how I am not the only one who sees this. But then, I may have negated the power of your statement by agreeing with you.

Hopefully it does not taint the effectiveness. I seem to wear the scarlet letter as of late.

[ June 19, 2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

Discogoddess

06-19-2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by Shalewa:
Geez, since we seem to be in the season of the rhetorical question...

How is it that assuming that folks can hang on an intellectually or linguistically challenging level and be engaged in dialogue on a rigorous level demeaning to them? Why is challenging them to look deeper into the semantic consequences of their own statements construed as putting words into their mouths? Why should folks limit their range of expression to ease others? Why would folks who feel somehow challenged by the level of discourse not move to step up their respective games? Why indeed? Shalewa: Since I used the term "putting words in people's mouths," I'll respond to that part of your post. In some instances, I have seen DHPers (in this case, BoldSoul) put words in the mouths of others, by using an "if, then" logic. As in, if you wrote this, then you must believe/think/do this, that and the other thing.

Discogoddess

06-19-2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Discogoddess:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Now - if we look at the posting dynamic - remove the words and just look at the names and styles -

Same people. Same rhetorical questions what don't have correct answers. Same one-upping of each point. Same clustering.

I can step out now. Thanks for playing. Actually, I would love to actually have conversation with you and have you answer any of my questions. I honestly don't understand your one-upping mantra and how it relates. And, I honestly want to know why you only seem to want to hear from certain people, and seem to discount (me, included, I suppose) the thoughts, opinions and questions of others....

What's with the taking your jacks and going home thing? [/QUOTE]How do you answer rhetorical questions? What, I don't know what BAITING is?

Whatever - you want to start an honest dialog - hell, an HONEST DEBATE, I'm there. You want me to walk into some one-upping contest - I told you - my name ain't NEO.

BTW - I've got my girls on alert at the picnic. Mad kung-fu skills. ;) [/QUOTE]Thanks for responding. I'll know not to expect answers from you when I ask questions moving forward. And, you'll let me know when you deem it an appropriate time/subject for our honest debate.

Don't get your girls shot bringing knives to a gun fight, k? smile.gif Jokes, only jokes, people...

MYOR

06-19-2003, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Shalewa:
Geez, since we seem to be in the season of the rhetorical question...

How is it that assuming that folks can hang on an intellectually or linguistically challenging level and be engaged in dialogue on a rigorous level demeaning to them? Why is challenging them to look deeper into the semantic consequences of their own statements construed as putting words into their mouths? Why should folks limit their range of expression to ease others? Why would folks who feel somehow challenged by the level of discourse not move to step up their respective games? Why indeed? I have no problem whats so ever with people making me see things I never saw before or teache me thing for that matter. If I don't understand something I am not ashamed to ask you to explain, But i do have a problem with people doing this if I do not agree..

I am certain someone has a nice cubicle for you. How is your 401k working out for you.
With that I'm out... Have a good night...

Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand

06-19-2003, 04:04 PM

Bold, I respect your opinion because it's just that. Nor do I take offense from what you say. Condescending statements from you? I've never thought of what you say as arrogant, I do not give anyone that kind of power. I've been around educated folks all of my like as a matter of fact I have a high IQ and college education myself, however my views are exactly what they are; views. There are few educated folk that love to share their educated views but have no common sense or wisdom at all to go along with. So everything comes out of their mouths is from what they have read or studied. The best form of education along with academic studies is real life education (wisdom from experience). Experience is the best teacher because others can learn from an actual event in others lives rather than what was read. Everyday I learn from a book of some form, the bible, life experiences of others and writing down life experiences of my own.

I admire the fact you have passion for what you believe in and want others to see/feel you but it can't be that way all of the time. Self judgement should come before judgement of others in order to grow and learn continually. Keep posting what you post I love to read your stuff graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I admire the fact you have passion for what you believe in and want others to see/feel you but it can't be that way all of the time. Self judgement should come before judgement of others in order to grow and learn continually. Keep posting what you post I love to read your stuff graemlins/thumbsup.gif While I appreciate your admiration, your view that I somehow "want others to see/feel" me isn't the case. I ask that you take another shot at getting to know me.

Again, this goes back to my point about strength of communication. I don't craft my statements to win people over. I simply do so to be taken seriously. If anyone's been watching, I'm equal parts cynic and philosopher. When the disagreements erupt into one-upping through rhetorical questions and twisted quotations, I then switch to cynical mode.

Keep in mind that I'm not asking anyone to change a thing. And if anyone has lost my original point, it's still about what I see as a dragging down of certain individuals on the DHP.

[ June 19, 2003, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

Moksha

06-19-2003, 04:22 PM

I'm not sure if the original post was rhetorical. But here are my answers to the questions you posed and my thoughts on your conclusions. For the record, I do not consider myself part of the alleged group that you refer to.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:

Why are well constructed statements that are structured with an emphasis on effective communication perceived as ARROGANT or CONDESCENDING? They aren't.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Why does something that makes you think beyond the bounds of your current perception perceived as some attempt to "change" your "mind"?It's not, necessarily.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
That one possesses more power over communication than another doesn't make them arrogant. That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you.Very true.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Is it possible that smarts are still derided in this day and age?Yes...but not often here.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
When you toss around words and terms that you are only vaguely familiar with, that is potentially misleading. True.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
When you pop-off with a judgement before you actually understand both sides, that is potentially misleading. When you take sides before you determine whether or not it is any of your business to be concerned, that is potentially misleading.Possibly true, but who determines whether or not one "actually understand[s] both sides" or "whether or not it is any of your business to be concerned"?

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
If you feel me, fine. If not, that's ok as well. A noble attitude, but not always evident in your replies.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
But if you perpetually bring weak shit and run off and accuse those who deconstruct your weak shit as being arrogant and/or condescending, you're missing the opportunity to learn through participation. Assumption one: Divergent views = weak shit.

Assumption two: The deconstruction is helpful and accurate.

Assumption three: There is a lack of arrogance and/or condescention in this so-called "deconstruction."

Assumption four: Those with the "weak shit" don't learn from the exchanges.

[ June 19, 2003, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Orion ]

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Orion:
I'm not sure if the original post was rhetorical. But here are my answers to the questions you posed and my thoughts on your conclusions. For the record, I do not consider myself part of the alleged group that you refer to.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:

Why are well constructed statements that are structured with an emphasis on effective communication perceived as ARROGANT or CONDESCENDING? They aren't.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Why does something that makes you think beyond the bounds of your current perception perceived as some attempt to "change" your "mind"?It's not, necessarily.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
That one possesses more power over communication than another doesn't make them arrogant. That one speaks with the authority borne of education and experience doesn't mean they devalue you.Very true.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Is it possible that smarts are still derided in this day and age?Yes...but not often here.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
When you toss around words and terms that you are only vaguely familiar with, that is potentially misleading. True.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
When you pop-off with a judgement before you actually understand both sides, that is potentially misleading. When you take sides before you determine whether or not it is any of your business to be concerned, that is potentially misleading.Possibly true, but who determines whether or not one "actually understand[s] both sides" or "whether or not it is any of your business to be concerned"?

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
If you feel me, fine. If not, that's ok as well. A noble attitude, but not always evident in your replies.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
But if you perpetually bring weak shit and run off and accuse those who deconstruct your weak shit as being arrogant and/or condescending, you're missing the opportunity to learn through participation. Assumption one: Divergent views = weak shit.

Assumption two: The deconstruction is helpful and accurate.

Assumption three: There is a lack of arrogance and/or condescention in this so-called "deconstruction."

Assumption four: Those with the "weak shit" don't learn from the exchanges. [/QUOTE]With regard to:

ASSUMPTION 1: Divergent views = value. Weak shit = limiting the effectiveness of one's arguement with one-upmanship and rhetorical questioning.

ASSUMPTION 2: All deconstruction is helpful. It's accuracy is determined by the goal of he/she who deconstructs.

ASSUMPTION 3: I never take anyone's comments with arrogance and condescension - not even those from some of the more colorful characters on the DHP. Arrogance and condescension implies intent - which remains unknown in such an impersonal setting as a discussion board.

ASSUMPTION 4: Those who carry their end of the debate through rhetorical questioning, one-upmanship and clustering around shared ideals learn little and show the most obvious arrogance and condescension of all.

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 04:51 PM

Also, in response to some of your questions:

Possibly true, but who determines whether or not one "actually understand[s] both sides" or "whether or not it is any of your business to be concerned"?

I submit the case of dVine's attack on Dolemite in order to make a point about her opposition of the war. As this is a GLOBAL issue, it was inappropriate to take such a personal tack.

To use Dolemite's willingness to be open and share his angst over the experience as a means to assert her view that people who serve in the armed forces are somehow circumspect was not fruitful, as subsequent responses show. The effect of war was her business. Dolemite's experience was not.

With regard to your comment related to my statement "If you feel me, fine. If not, that's ok as well," I understand that it may not always be evident. This is why I state it from time to time.

[ June 19, 2003, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

falko

06-19-2003, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:

Why are well constructed statements that are structured with an emphasis on effective communication perceived as ARROGANT or CONDESCENDING? Why does something that makes you think beyond the bounds of your current perception perceived as some attempt to "change" your "mind"?
this is quite ironic post...

part of the problem is that the "well constructed statements" are often accompanied by actual displays of arrogance and condescension, where people explicitly or implicitly refer to their own intelligence (e.g., this post). my opinion would be that these displays are rooted in insecurity and a desire to be recognized for one's accomplishments in this otherwise anonymous environment (since often the words and ideas do no achieve the desired effect... refer back to the pedigree).

in publicizing education or professional pedigree, or even referring vaguely to mental capacity, people make mighty assumptions about the education/knowledge, or lack thereof, of other posters and readers. the fact that anyone would refer to their own posts as an attempt to "educate" or "enlighten" is just lame. if your posts were that good this would be unnecessary.

as for you, i honesty find most of your posts highly intelligent and thought-provoking. but this kind of plea for recognition/validation is certainly a weakness...

just my opinion.

[ June 19, 2003, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: falko ]

Moksha

06-19-2003, 05:04 PM

Bold...

Comments like:

"Please be a little more scholarly and a lot less reactionary. Please." And. . . "Why don't you stop making specific assertions with general opinions and I'll give you an opportunity to influence my thinking. Until then, I retain my responsibility to educate myself."

are patronizing. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if people spoke like that to you when you present them with your ideas and "facts." I don't think that people are accusing you of being arrogant and condescending because of HOW you say things (you are well spoken)...but rather becasue of WHAT you say (your attacks on other's intelligence, beliefs, rhetoric, etc.).

I assume you posted this topic with a genuine desire to better understand why you have been accused of these things. If you really can't see where people are coming from when they accuse you of arrogance, then this discussion is pointless. I know that I come off that way at times, as do JL, J-Lennie, Mark and other prolific writers here.

Finally, in response to your last reply:

"ASSUMPTION 1: Divergent views = value. Weak shit = limiting the effectiveness of one's arguement with one-upmanship and rhetorical questioning."

But, who determines value? We each think that argument has value and that those who disagree with us use the methods you criticize, especially on this medium (a message board). I went back and re-read our conversations on a number of topics, and would characterize many of your posts as one-upmanship and rhetorical questioning. Of course, you'd read the same and see me as doing the same.

"ASSUMPTION 2: All deconstruction is helpful. It's accuracy is determined by the goal of he/she who deconstructs."

I disagree. I think that people can come to some very incorrect conclusions. Furthermore, as i said above, I believe that each of us sees our "goal" as being that of revealing truth. But since our separate deconsructions lead to contrary truths. . .we end up classifying each others' aruments as contrary.

"ASSUMPTION 3: I never take anyone's comments with arrogance and condescension - not even those from some of the more colorful characters on the DHP. Arrogance and condescension implies intent - which remains unknown in such an impersonal setting as a discussion board."

Within the process of deconstruction, one can still be arrogant. You and I have both used arrogant tones in some of our "deconstructions." Also, you claim that intent is unknown, yet you have claimed to understand my intent on numerous occasions, as you have done with others.

"ASSUMPTION 4: Those who carry their end of the debate through rhetorical questioning, one-upmanship and clustering around shared ideals learn little and show the most obvious arrogance and condescension of all."

How can you knw what others learn? People learn in different ways. Also, since others subjectively see your posts as one-upmanship, does this mean that you don't learn anything?

I'm not trying to be contrary or "one-up" you, just trying to answer your orignal questions. You have claimed to have figured out my "M.O.," but I have not been blessed with such powers of online psychoanalysis. So take these comments as nothing more than my own subjective take on the topics you have brought up on this thread.

Moksha

06-19-2003, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Also, in response to some of your questions:

Possibly true, but who determines whether or not one "actually understand[s] both sides" or "whether or not it is any of your business to be concerned"?

I submit the case of dVine's attack on Dolemite in order to make a point about her opposition of the war. As this is a GLOBAL issue, it was inappropriate to take such a personal tack.

To use Dolemite's willingness to be open and share his angst over the experience as a means to assert her view that people who serve in the armed forces are somehow circumspect was not fruitful, as subsequent responses show. The effect of war was her business. Dolemite's experience was not.
I haven't read the thread you're alluding to, so i cannot comment on it. But my point was: Nobody can ever fully understand both sides of an issue, though we often like to think that we do. Exchanges like these are a way to be more familiar with each side...though this does not necessarily mean that our own positions will change. Same line of thought applies to whether or not a topic is any of one's business.

Anyway...you know what they say about opinons and assholes... ;)

Bold Soul

06-19-2003, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by falko:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:

Why are well constructed statements that are structured with an emphasis on effective communication perceived as ARROGANT or CONDESCENDING? Why does something that makes you think beyond the bounds of your current perception perceived as some attempt to "change" your "mind"?
this is quite ironic post...

part of the problem is that the "well constructed statements" are often accompanied by actual displays of arrogance and condescension, where people explicitly or implicitly refer to their own intelligence (e.g., this post). my opinion would be that these displays are rooted in insecurity and a desire to be recognized for one's accomplishments in this otherwise anonymous environment (since often the words and ideas do no achieve the desired effect... refer back to the pedigree).

in publicizing education or professional pedigree, or even referring vaguely to mental capacity, people make mighty assumptions about the education/knowledge, or lack thereof, of other posters and readers. the fact that anyone would refer to their own posts as an attempt to "educate" or "enlighten" is just lame. if your posts were that good this would be unnecessary.

as for you, i honesty find most of your posts highly intelligent and thought-provoking. but this kind of plea for recognition/validation is certainly a weakness...

just my opinion. [/QUOTE]Think you misread there, Falko - but I appreciate your interest.

Might want to read that again. What I am implying is that EVERYONE on the DHP is an expert in something. I consider mostly everyone here to be very erudite.

Nor did I assert that my posts were intended to educate. I am asserting GROUP PARTICIPATION as the ultimate learning experience on the DHP.

Moksha

06-19-2003, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:

Nor did I assert that my posts were intended to educate.
Originally posted by Bold Soul:
I communicate on the DHP as if my words could have a profound effect on someone.I'm not 100% sure what these add up to. Do you you mean that communicate in a style that might educate, but that is not the intent?

Just clarifying...

[ June 19, 2003, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Orion ]

falko

06-19-2003, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by falko:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:

Why are well constructed statements that are structured with an emphasis on effective communication perceived as ARROGANT or CONDESCENDING? Why does something that makes you think beyond the bounds of your current perception perceived as some attempt to "change" your "mind"?
this is quite ironic post...

part of the problem is that the "well constructed statements" are often accompanied by actual displays of arrogance and condescension, where people explicitly or implicitly refer to their own intelligence (e.g., this post). my opinion would be that these displays are rooted in insecurity and a desire to be recognized for one's accomplishments in this otherwise anonymous environment (since often the words and ideas do no achieve the desired effect... refer back to the pedigree).

in publicizing education or professional pedigree, or even referring vaguely to mental capacity, people make mighty assumptions about the education/knowledge, or lack thereof, of other posters and readers. the fact that anyone would refer to their own posts as an attempt to "educate" or "enlighten" is just lame. if your posts were that good this would be unnecessary.

as for you, i honesty find most of your posts highly intelligent and thought-provoking. but this kind of plea for recognition/validation is certainly a weakness...

just my opinion. [/QUOTE]Think you misread there, Falko - but I appreciate your interest.

Might want to read that again. What I am implying is that EVERYONE on the DHP is an expert in something. I consider mostly everyone here to be very erudite.

Nor did I assert that my posts were intended to educate. I am asserting GROUP PARTICIPATION as the ultimate learning experience on the DHP. [/QUOTE]perhaps i misread you then. in general however, i do find a lot of condescension and arrogance in many posts here, especially from those with higher levels of education (and i only know these posters have higher levels of education because they occasionally pepper their posts with references to their background).

i read this page with great interest, but have been taken aback by the arrogance of some. there is an awful lot of pride, perhaps too much...