anyone else have jacked up knees!

[old disco jock]

i ran 9 miles this morning i couldn't even stride i had to shuffle most of it just a sharp pain just below the bottom front part of the left knee

i think this may be due to family knee problems and that im 33 and i just start a hardcore workout this is my 3rd week of the workout....

[kara]

lol lol i thought this conversation was going in another direction ... a freaky friday direction.

on this more serious note, that sucks. id suggest running on grass, like a grass field if you can find one. its easier on your knees and shins. i used to run cross country in highschool and had trouble w/my knees, and coach used to make me run the field, sometimes barefoot even (which i never understood why but you dont question coach soooo)

[DaBownca]

lol lol i thought this conversation was going in another direction ... a freaky friday direction.

on this more serious note, that sucks. id suggest running on grass, like a grass field if you can find one. its easier on your knees and shins. i used to run cross country in highschool and had trouble w/my knees, and coach used to make me run the field, sometimes barefoot even (which i never understood why but you dont question coach soooo)
Also if you have pool access run in place for about 30 mins in the pool...its supposed to be the equivalent of 3 miles or so

[jimmymack-2000]

You likely have runner's knee...have your shoes been fitted to your gait?

[old disco jock]

nike shox are fitted i have been training hardcore for 4 hard days a week

mon,tues,wed,fri skip:thu

friday i do 8 mile ruck march (ruck 55+lbs)

i am just workin out much too much + i am bout 7pounds heavier than normal

[travy]

jogging is about the worst activity you can do if you've got knee/joint issues. might want to save yourself the trouble and do something else like swimming, biking, eliptical training or something else that's not so high impact to get your cardio...

[Myron]

Both my knees are shot. I can't run or jump. It's from years on running on concrete and improper running shoes.

Myron

[Joonbugg]

A couple of questions. Have you been working out a lot before and just upped the intensity and volume? Or were you sedentary and then jumped into a 'hardcore' routine? Plus, what are you trying to accomplish? Do you actually need to run so much? Can you pull back the running volume a little and balance it out with some other activities?

Here is some stuff I found on strengthening the shins. It sounds like that may be primary issue you're having.

To reduce your risk of MTSS, use the following protective exercises:

1. Wall shin raises
a. Stand with your back to a wall, with your heels about foot-length from the wall. Then, lean back until your buttocks and shoulders are resting against the wall;
b. Dorsiflex both ankles simultaneously while your heels remain in contact with the ground: bring your toes as close to your shins as you can, then lower your feet back towards the ground, but do not allow your forefeet to actually contact the ground before beginning the next repeat;
c. Complete 12-15 reps of the above;
d. Maintaining your basic position with your back against the wall, dorsiflex your ankles to almost their fullest extent, then quickly dorsiflex and plantarflex your ankles 15 times over a very small range of motion.These short, quick ankle movements are called pulses;
e. As you gain strength over time, make the exercise more difficult by progressing from one set of 15 reps (of both basic raises and pulses) to two and then to three, walking around for 15-30 seconds between sets if you wish.

Once you can quite comfortably complete 3 x 15 of the double-leg raises (both basic and pulsing), progress to the single-leg wall shin raise, as follows:
f. Start in the same position as before, but with only one foot in contact with the ground, while the other rests lightly on the wall behind you. Now your full body weight is on one foot - as it is during running - and the exercises are considerably more difficult;
g. Begin with 12-15 reps per foot (both for the basic exercise and pulses) and progress to 3 x 15 on each foot as your strength increases. There's no need to rest between sets; simply carry out 15 reps plus pulses on one foot, shift over to the other foot, and so on until you have completed three sets with each foot.

Although wall shin raises are a great routine for the shins, they are not quite as running-specific as the exercises which follow.

2. Heel step-downs
Simple but devastatingly effective exercises for preventing MTSS.
a. Begin with a natural, erect body position, with your feet about shoulder-width apart, then step forwards with one foot. The length of the step should be moderate, as with normal walking;
b. When your heel makes contact with the ground, stop the foot from fully plantarflexing by using your shin muscles to keep the sole of the foot from making contact with the ground. After heel contact, the ball of your foot should descend no more than an inch towards the floor or ground, held in check by the eccentric contractions of your dorsiflexors (shin muscles);
c. Return your foot to the starting position (back by the other foot), and repeat this basic stepping action a total of 15 times. Then repeat on the other foot;
d. As with the wall shin raises, progress to three sets of 15 reps over time.
Once you have mastered the basic heel step-downs, try the same exercise with dramatically longer steps, which will increase the accelerating forces placed on the dorsiflexors and force them to work more forcefully and quickly, as they must do during running. Start with one set of 15 reps of long steps per foot and progress to 3 x 15 on each foot over time.
Finally, you will be ready to carry out the heel step-downs from a high step, which will increase the forces on your shin muscles to the greatest extent and, of course, build the greatest amount of strength. Use a bench or exercise platform which is about 4-6 inches off the ground. Apart from beginning each step from a bench, your movements are the same as with the basic step-downs, the idea being to land on the heel of the forward foot, then use the shin muscles to prevent the sole of the foot from making contact with the ground (again, don't let the ball of the foot move downwards by more than an inch). The actual length of the step is moderate at first (you can progress to long steps later). As before, begin with 15 reps per foot, and progress to three sets of 15 reps as you gain strength and coordination.
Both the wall shin raises and heel step-downs can be carried out 3-4 times a week, along with your other strength-building exercises. You can perform them more often if you've had lots of problems with MTSS in the past, but not to the point of pain. Once you are an accomplished wall-shin-raiser and heel-step-downer, move on to the next two exercises, which are the ultimate MTSS preventers.

3. Heel hops
a. Using erect but relaxed posture, standing on your right foot, with your right knee just slightly flexed and your left knee flexed to about 90¡ so that the foot is completely off the ground;
b. Hop forwards on your right foot, but instead of landing in the mid-foot area, land on your right heel and hold the position for about two seconds, keeping the rest of your foot off the ground;
c. Repeat on the same foot 14 times more, then repeat on the other foot.

Initially, the hops should be just 4-6 inches in length, but you can increase the hopping distance as your strength and coordination improve. Another key progression is to gradually build up your speed of heel hopping, so that you are moving forwards quite quickly, while remaining on your heels. You can gradually move up to 3 x 15 hops per leg (or even more), but the ultimate progression is to carry out the exercise on a slight downward slope (initially just 1-2%). Using the slope will put severe pressure on your shin muscles, so be careful to begin with a modest number of reps.

4. Heel running
a. Start in a comfortable position, using relaxed and upright posture with your feet roughly beneath your shoulders;
b. Begin jogging slowly, allowing only your heels to make contact with the ground. Stay relaxed as you do this, and avoid the natural tendency to look down at your feet to see what is happening.
At first, keep your movements slow and jog for just 10 metres or so, but as you become more skilled your can speed up your heel running and go for about 3 x 20m, with a short break inbetween reps. Ultimately, you'll want to be able to do some of your heel running on a very modest downward slope. The overall idea is to keep your ankles significantly dorsiflexed as you run and permit just a little plantarflexion with each heel-fall, allowing only your heels to make contact with the ground.

How to use your warm-ups to strengthen your shins
You can also incorporate the following shin-splint-preventing routines into the warm-ups which precede your regular workouts. The exercises develop shin-muscle strength and resilience as well as overall ankle coordination. Performing them before a training session transforms your warm-ups from humdrum routines into important strength-and-coordination sessions. Here's what to do:

1. Walk on your toes
a. Walk on tiptoe as high as possible with your toes pointed straight ahead for about 20m. Your legs should be relatively straight and your steps initially small;
b. Repeat with your toes pointed outwards. Your legs should rotate outwards from the hips when you perform this movement; don't simply turn each foot at the ankle - the whole leg must be involved;
c. Finally, repeat with your toes pointed inwards, rotating the entire leg in from the hip, not just the ankle;
d. Repeat each step at least once more before progressing to the next exercise.

2. Walk on your heels
a. Walk on your heels with your toes pointed straight ahead for about 20m, getting as high up on your heels as you possibly can. As above, keep your legs relatively straight and your steps small;
b. Repeat with toes pointed outwards then inwards, as with the previous exercise;
c. Repeat the whole sequence at least once more.

As the toe and heel walks become easy for you, graduate to doing the three variations of each exercise while jogging lightly, instead of walking, using a padded or grassy surface at first.

3. Skip for 20m
Landing in the mid-foot area with each contact with the ground, with toes pointed straight ahead. Repeat with toes pointed outwards, then again with toes pointed inwards. Repeat the whole sequence at least once more.

4. Skip high on your toes
For 20m, first with toes straight ahead, then pointed out, then pointed in.

Once the toe skipping exercises are comfortable, try some light skipping on your heels. Gradually build up your ability to heel-skip with toes straight ahead, pointed out, and pointed in for 20m at a time. Heel skipping is a great way to build dorsiflexor strength, but do it only on a padded or grassy surface to avoid impact injury to your heels.

5. Rhythm bounding
This doesn't mean leaping along with extra-long strides, at least not at first, but jogging along with very springy, short steps, landing on the mid-foot area with each contact and springing upwards after impact. As you rhythm bound, your ankles should act like coiled springs, compressing slightly as you make your mid-foot landing and then recoiling quickly - causing you to bound upward and forward.
a. Move along for 20m-or-so with these quick, little spring-like strides, alternating right and left feet as you would during running;
b. After 10-20m of regular jogging, rhythm bound for 20 more metres, alternating three consecutive spring-like contacts with the right foot with three with the left;
c. After 10-20 more metres of regular jogging, close the set by bounding along for the full 20m on your right foot only, followed by 20m on the left (making sure that you land on the mid-foot area with each ground contact and that your ankle area, not your knee or hip, is doing most of the work).
Make sure, at least at first, that all of this is done on a padded surface or soft grass. As you become stronger and more skilled, you can increase the length and height of each bound and include additional sets of bounds, up to a maximum of four.

6. Dorsiflexion bounces
Jump vertically 10 times at close to maximal height, landing in the mid-foot area with both feet and then springing upwards quickly after each contact with the ground. The interesting part of this exercise is that you should dorsiflex your ankles - pulling the tops of your feet toward your shins - on each ascent, plantarflexing your ankles just before making contact with the ground. Rest for 10 seconds or so, then repeat. Over time you can add additional sets and increase the number of reps to 30. When you are really strong and skilled, try this exercise on just one foot at a time.

7. Rhythm bouncing
Rhythm bouncing is actually just jumping around, but what jumping!
a. Start with 10 jumps on-the-spot, moderately fast, to a medium height and with maximal motion at the ankles, but little flexion and extension at the knees and hips. Over time, you can work up to 30 jumps;
b. After resting for a few seconds, reduce the height of your jumps to less than an inch and complete 20 as fast as possible, minimising impact time as if landing on hot coals! Again, almost all of the action should take place at your ankles, not at your knees and hips. As you become more skilled, work up to 40 quicksilver jumps without stopping;
c. After resting for a few seconds, complete five 'high-impact' jumps, reaching as high as possible. Over time, work up to 30 of these maxi-jumps;
d. Now make things interesting by jumping forwards and then backwards as quickly as possible, with a total of 20 ground contacts;
e. Rest for a few seconds, then jump from side to side for a further 20 contacts;
f. Rest again, then jump diagonally forwards, first to the right, then to the left, in zig-zag fashion for 20 contacts. Remember to use your ankle muscles to propel you, not the big muscles at the knees and hips.

As you gain in skill and strength, you can increase the number of sets of each type of rhythm bouncing from one to three, and then - the fun part - carry out each type of bouncing on one foot only. Moving in different directions as you bounce increases the ability of your shin muscles to handle all the forces created during running: the side-to-side and rotational stresses as well as the front and back forces.

Also I would highly recommend lots of foam rolling for recovery.

For knee health, here is a new product from one of my favorite strength coaches, Mike Robertson. http://www.bulletproofknees.com/

Nutrition wise, if you're not already taking fish oils, then it's time to start. Really important for joint health and inflammation throughout the body. Five to sixteen grams per day should serve you well. A high dosage of vitamin c immediately after your workout can really help too. Normally you can't absorb much vitamin c except when the body is in a state of stress. That's why elderly seem to benefit from higher dosages. So taking 500-1000mg immediately after the workout can help with inflammation. I usually mix an emergancy with 5grams of creatine post workout.

[old disco jock]

don't have a shin problem its my left knee its killing all day

i do special forces pt i don't wanna go to sick call

[Fletch]

How old are your shoes?

[old disco jock]

bought nike shox end of august07

[chldfknungrnd764]

Bad knees after my time in the Corps, I miss shooting hoops.:madani:

No need to get on the hardwood, don't need to get embarrassed by the high wire acts.

I wear knee pads at work, so many nasty eateries to inspect each day.:frown:

[Fletch]

bought nike shox end of august07What is your body size and foot size and shape?

Do you know what type of "Shox" shoes you have? There are different types. The Shox is the technology.