Producers, stop making music that's geared to the "straight" male!!

[liL Ray]

Maybe when the producers stop making music that's geared to the "straight" male, maybe the music will be BANGING in abundance.....djs need to stop playing music geared to them also....they are some of the most boring people at a party.

Don't believe me, go try and get your hand on the new Mr. Frankie Knuckles version of "Back in the day" and see what I'm talking about....or play the new Kevin Yost's "Blow your Mind"....and don't wait for most of those straight boring ****s to get it....most of them only get it when they see a floor full of women losing their minds, by that time it's too late.

....something to think about and debate.

eh, what do I know anyways.... graemlins/stupid.gif

[ June 29, 2003, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

[liL Ray]

...table, for Monday morning....

[YUJI-SAN]

I love it when females lose their mind to "house music".

[HML]

I don't get it... graemlins/jpshakehead.gif Why are you insulting heterosexual male partygoers? I happen to be "straight" and I do not consider myself to be "boring". You are implying that the only "interesting" people at a club are female or homosexual and DJs should only play to them?!? What a crock!! mad1.gif To hear you tell it, I guess I just need to stay my dull, straight ass at home!! :rolleyes: What do you base your opinion on? Yeah, I know women and gays bring "drama". But is that flamboyance the ONLY critical element of a nice party? You are making a very broad generalization here and have dissed a huge percentage of club goers.

-HML

[Bold Soul]

Maybe house music producers should stop making music for GROWN FOLKS. It seems like this is the problem with House music in the US - the crowd is way too old.

See HML - all you need is the "deep knee bend" test. If you can't get back up (or shit, all the way down), you need to turn your boogie pass in to a 21 year old.

And leave my Straight Nation bro's alone, Ray! If we weren't buying ladies drinks, the bar would make no money. ;)  graemlins/rofl.gif

[JMNYC]

y'all crack me up. Ray is making a good point - the typical heterosexual man is not going to be out on that dance floor (unless he's chasing some tail). This is the real, folks. There are exceptions to the rules, but generally, tracks that make str8 women and homos get up and dance provide the energy for the room, while the str8 boys will almost never do this unless accompanied by someone. Funny, it's like they're the most insecure even though they front otherwise.

Funny to see this post from Ray, who was obviously gay in another life, but not in this one ;)

[HML]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
y'all crack me up. Ray is making a good point - the typical heterosexual man is not going to be out on that dance floor (unless he's chasing some tail). This is the real, folks. There are exceptions to the rules, but generally, tracks that make str8 women and homos get up and dance provide the energy for the room, while the str8 boys will almost never do this unless accompanied by someone. Funny, it's like they're the most insecure even though they front otherwise.

Funny to see this post from Ray, who was obviously gay in another life, but not in this one ;) Hogwash!! I'll dance by myself in a hot minute if the music compells me to do so!! I don't go to House parties to meet women, therefore I have no ulterior motive on the dance floor other than expressing how the tunes are effecting me. Why are straight male partygoers being bashed here?!? AR15firing.gif mad1.gif

-HML

[D J 1 3 8]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
There are exceptions to the rules, but generally, tracks that make str8 women and homos get up and dance provide the energy for the room, this is pretty much a fact. Yeah, there are exceptions but, in general, women and gay folks make your party live.

[JMNYC]

HML, don't be mad1.gif - I'm just tellin the truth bruh.

YOU are one the exceptions to the rule, and I know many other straight men who dance, but COME ON! The VAST majority of the partygoing-public-TYPICAL(I did say that) hetero males are not going out to dance. They will dance to get up on dat a$$, they will dance if they get real tore up, but a room full of JUST typical straight boys and you think they'll all be out there spinnin? Me thinks not. Add women to the mix and its a different story.

You are a househead, hence why you're on this board. We all know that househeads are not TYPICAL. Thus I was not attacking you at all.

It's unfortunate that the typical straight man is not as open minded or inspired by music as the DHP straight man, or the HOUSE straight man, for that matter.

EDIT: please also note that Ray's post was about WHO THE MUSIC IS PRODUCED FOR, not who the party is open to. It takes all kinds to make a good party -- but if you want a good dance production, you should probably gear it towards people who like to dance, no?

[ June 29, 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: JMNYC ]

[HML]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JMNYC:
There are exceptions to the rules, but generally, tracks that make str8 women and homos get up and dance provide the energy for the room, this is pretty much a fact. Yeah, there are exceptions but, in general, women and gay folks make your party live. </font>[/QUOTE]So, as I said before, boring, straight males like me should just stay our asses at home?!? mad1.gif What are we, undesireables...?!? If the groove is right, I party my ass off! So, if I'm not an attractive woman or a flamboyant gay dude, I'm not making a viable contribution to the party atmosphere?!? AR15firing.gif AR15firing.gif

[Linedog]

Good points on both sides. I can see Rays point. Straight males stand in the middle of the floor wih drinks in hand scoping out the young ladies trying to get their groove on. But, they are blocking the dancers around them and also spilling their drinks on the floor and creating a mess and somewhat dangerous conditions.

Straight males buy drinks are young and maybe have the potential to pick up a good groove. Maybe they will create another wave of house heads.

let's be fair the music is for everyone. Also if your ain't dancing get off the floor for the folks who dance no matter what.

[TAC]

Production has nothing to do with it. The DJ's are not honest. That's all.

If you need more, I'll elaborate.

Peace
TAC

[JMNYC]

Originally posted by TAC:
Production has nothing to do with it. The DJ's are not honest. That's all.

If you need more, I'll elaborate.

Peace
TAC what exactly do you mean by "honest"?

[TAC]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TAC:
Production has nothing to do with it. The DJ's are not honest. That's all.

If you need more, I'll elaborate.

Peace
TAC what exactly do you mean by "honest"? </font>[/QUOTE]Ulterior motives

[Ron la Rock]

there was an older thread that talked about the lack of SEXXX in todays dance music

I often think about that myself lately

if everbody get out of church and off the garden burger journey, flowery laptop bit graemlins/rofl.gif
&
make some raw dirty ass shakin sh*t shit(wich some are doing)
maybe we'll come full circle again

and then again we are sittin here when the after parade pride partys are in full swing
lets hope someone reports in couple of days

[ June 29, 2003, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Ron paizley ]

[JMNYC]

(hoping that this actually gets elaboration) TAC, please elaborate some more.

Ron, I feel you on the sexy tip.

That's very important, but I still think it hits the (straight) women before the men. Women identify with "sexy" much more than men.
Men identify with women identifying with "sexy".

[TAC]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
(hoping that this actually gets elaboration) TAC, please elaborate some more.

Ron, I feel you on the sexy tip.

That's very important, but I still think it hits the (straight) women before the men. Women identify with "sexy" much more than men.
Men identify with women identifying with "sexy". Still around, I'm working on the "Nu Grooves", and checking in at the same time.

Honesty. Why do many of the premiere names play? A lot of them say that they love the music and this and that. However, the truth of the matter is they are "playing for a cup of soup," i.e., to put a meal on the table. Alot of these "cats" aren't doing it for the simple reason of having fun. Hence, the dishonesty. This is for starters. If you want to continue the dialogue, I will.

Peace
TAC

[ June 29, 2003, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: TAC ]

[HML]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
HML, don't be mad1.gif - I'm just tellin the truth bruh.

YOU are one the exceptions to the rule, and I know many other straight men who dance, but COME ON! The VAST majority of the partygoing-public-TYPICAL(I did say that) hetero males are not going out to dance. They will dance to get up on dat a$$, they will dance if they get real tore up, but a room full of JUST typical straight boys and you think they'll all be out there spinnin? Me thinks not. Add women to the mix and its a different story.

You are a househead, hence why you're on this board. We all know that househeads are not TYPICAL. Thus I was not attacking you at all.

It's unfortunate that the typical straight man is not as open minded or inspired by music as the DHP straight man, or the HOUSE straight man, for that matter.

EDIT: please also note that Ray's post was about WHO THE MUSIC IS PRODUCED FOR, not who the party is open to. It takes all kinds to make a good party -- but if you want a good dance production, you should probably gear it towards people who like to dance, no? Thanks JMNYC, my feathers are definitely a bit ruffled on this one... I concede that, depending on the venue, I do see a lotta dudes holdin' up the wall. Just last night at 66 Water St. there were guys, standing in valuable dance space, holding a drink... "posing". That ain't me! I come to get my dance ON!! Ask anyone who's party I've attended! (RonnieRon where you at brother?) This is why I'm up in arms over the generalization that has been made!

liL' Ray also clearly stated his premise that "djs need to stop playing music geared to them also"... "them" being straight males. Is this not a form of exclusion? If his fellow DJs adopted this inane proposal, wouldn't parties be less "open" to heterosexual men? mad1.gif Sorry, you had calmed me down I bit, now I'm steamed up again. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/madani.gif

I'm not sure if I'm even buying the idea that House producers target any particular demographic. If you were to take a poll, I bet most producers/artists would say that their music is for EVERYONE ! Wouldn't it be a bit presumptuous to tell makers of House music to focus on a specific audience? Isn't House supposed to have a broad, far-reaching appeal? Anyone who makes dance music, can take his art in any direction he so desires. But, one person suggesting that all new music in this genre be made for gays and women is absurd and unrealistic. What would become of artistic freedom of expression?

-HML (Still steaming... graemlins/cussing.gif )

[ June 30, 2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: HML ]

[JMNYC]

I agree that house is for everyone.

I believe that music should come from the soul as opposed to being produced based on "what will sell" (that's what's wrong with the music business now).

HML, you have made me think, I'll give you that.

On one hand, I agree with Ray that making music geared towards a demographic that doesn't appreciate it creates a big challenge - that people whine about how come we don't have support for this music but all the while they aren't looking to - or sometimes even accepting the reality of - the chief supporters OF this music.

On the other hand, who sits down and says "I'm gonna make a house record that all the straight boys like"????? I'm sure that some producers have said "I'm gonna make a record for the queens" or "I'm gonna make a record for the ladies". Maybe that's the difference that led me to back up Ray's point.

I believe that there needs to be some real honest recognition of what goes on down there on the dancefloor, and in stores that sell mix CDs.

There is a hyper-masculinization that has beel going on for a long time in this U.S. society (house gets its props in Europe, where homosexuality is far less of an issue), and since house music has an inherently "gay" association in the minds of millions, it's hard for a straight guy to appreciate house without having to justify himself to society in general as not being gay.

I give big props to all the straight guys who have the balls to accept house music as what it is, rather than as an indicator of their lack of masculinity. Most of my friends are (really) straight men. The difference between them and the "average U.S. Joe" is that they are deeper, more spiritual, more in-tune with the universe, more intelligent and as a result, MUCH LESS insecure.

Houseaddict & I were just talking about this at the pride parade. How many "typical" straight males do you think would be comfortable in that environment (especially without the validating female companion)?

To my point:


Originally posted by Discogoddess:
Enjoyed myself @ the Chicago parade with the hubby and friends. Hopefully helped open/expand the minds of two of our companions, who I think originally came just to gawk, but seemed to be "getting it" by the day's end.I believe that Ray's point was about what Discogoddess referred to as "getting it".

[JMNYC]

now, I'll ask Ray... can you quote a specific example of a house record that you think was made specifically for straight males? I think I agree with your point, but am hardpressed to find an example.

[So easy a protic can do it (QUAD)]

OK, IF I MADE A SONG OR A TRACK FOR THE ANIMAL SPECIES, WOULD THEY HAVE TO BE STRAIGHT OR GAY JUST SO THEY CAN ENJOY IT?!?!? graemlins/stupid.gif

[ June 30, 2003, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: DJ QUAD ]

[Martin Red]

OK Carl Bean would be happy, but

"Your Love" for instance was made after Jamie split with a girlfriend so the sentiment wasn't exactly geared for Gay males.


I couldn't care who or what they are made for as long as they are good.

[Jolyon]

Originally posted by Martin Red:
OK Carl Bean would be happy, but

"Your Love" for instance was made after Jamie split with a girlfriend so the sentiment wasn't exactly geared for Gay males.


I couldn't care who or what they are made for as long as they are good. Do you remember Bad Boy and It's A Cold World - I figured both songs were written from a gay perspective first time I heard them.

[Kemi J]

Nothing to elaborate on, really, the name of the thread says it best. Those ballads about falling in love (most often with ones best friend) just don't make sense on the dancefloor. The image of a screaming diva, glowing with sexuality, is the kind of thing that really gets one to feel the power in the music. It seems silly that one need be gay to enjoy this, but that is pretty much the way it is.

I am straight, but I dont like sets or art in general that overplays the straight angle, interpreting life as one big pursuit of either casual sex or romantic love. This bores me to death. My sexuality is very real, and plays a big part in my life, but there are places where I leave it at the door. On that note another hero of mine, bruce weber, is gay and is by far the most interesting photographer. His images give a unique glimpse into the power of men and women, something that I have trouble finding anywhere else. Then of course there are the Greeks...
In general I can surmise that the sexuality of straight persons is much more blase than any straight person will ever admit. Leave that stuff in the bedroom.

kemi

[the 18th letter]

Originally posted by TAC:
[QUOTE]
Honesty. Why do many of the premiere names play? A lot of them say that they love the music and this and that. However, the truth of the matter is they are "playing for a cup of soup," i.e., to put a meal on the table. Alot of these "cats" aren't doing it for the simple reason of having fun. Hence, the dishonesty. This is for starters. If you want to continue the dialogue, I will.

Peace
TAC I can feel that. Earlier this week I named a few jocks who I thought do it from the heart. A lot of DJ's/producers seem like they want to be artists. The seperation does not exist that much anymore nor does it particularly work. Sorta like Jordan and the Wizards. He wanted to own, play and manage. You can't wear to many hats in the game. DJ's get back to DJ'ing or produce and get out of the way. Heterosexual males like to dance too!!

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by Jolyon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Martin Red:
OK Carl Bean would be happy, but

"Your Love" for instance was made after Jamie split with a girlfriend so the sentiment wasn't exactly geared for Gay males.


I couldn't care who or what they are made for as long as they are good. Do you remember Bad Boy and It's A Cold World - I figured both songs were written from a gay perspective first time I heard them. </font>[/QUOTE]And, what's that got to do with Your love ? and the real reason he wrote the song exactly ?

[Jolyon]

Nothing at all - I was just saying the first time I heard those songs 15 years ago, I assumed JP was gay.

[darrow]

Is one of the premises of this thread that producers are, with forethought, making music with straight males as the target audience and the DJs are intentionally playing music for that same audience?

[drilla]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
y'all crack me up. Ray is making a good point - the typical heterosexual man is not going to be out on that dance floor (unless he's chasing some tail). This is the real, folks. There are exceptions to the rules, but generally, tracks that make str8 women and homos get up and dance provide the energy for the room, while the str8 boys will almost never do this unless accompanied by someone. Funny, it's like they're the most insecure even though they front otherwise.

Funny to see this post from Ray, who was obviously gay in another life, but not in this one ;) you are so gay, gaylord.

i front like a mofo!

[ June 30, 2003, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: matthew j ]

[Discogoddess]

Originally posted by matthew j:
you are so gay, gaylord....LMBAO @ "gaylord"! Haven't heard that since childhood...

[liL Ray]

Some get this post and some don't....to those who don't and got offended, GREAT, I hope at least you looked within....I still stand by my point!!

carry on...

[drilla]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by matthew j:
you are so gay, gaylord....LMBAO @ "gaylord"! Haven't heard that since childhood... </font>[/QUOTE]smile.gif

[imported_Chr_stopher]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
Maybe when the producers stop making music that's geared to the "straight" male, maybe the music will be BANGING in abundance.....djs need to stop playing music geared to them also....they are some of the most boring people at a party.

Don't believe me, go try and get your hand on the new Mr. Frankie Knuckles version of "Back in the day" and see what I'm talking about....or play the new Kevin Yost's "Blow your Mind"....and don't wait for most of those straight boring ****s to get it....most of them only get it when they see a floor full of women losing their minds, by that time it's too late.

....something to think about and debate.

eh, what do I know anyways.... graemlins/stupid.gif People, demograpical sterotypes is what is killing the music today, if people weren't so busy trying to market something to a certain group and stuck to just making good music we would be much better off.

just my 2 cents

[Jamie 3:26]

Maybe some jocks should go out to gay bars and see how it's done.I would love to go to the Warehouse in the Bronx and hear Andre Collins tear it up.

That's how I got up on playing.I hit gay spots and hung out with gay folks.I actually got taught how select tunes-not mix,there is a difference, by a gay guy.

Hell,most of the biggest jocks were all gay back in the day.

My point is,sometimes you need to experience things outside of your confort zone for a change.I go out at times to party and at other times to observe.I am always taking notes,whether it's a good party,bad party,good dj,bad dj.

The learning process as a dj should never stop.

[Jamie 3:26]

One more point,maybe cats should go out to gay spots to see what moves them.I'm not talking about "Cicuit" tunes either.

[imported_Chr_stopher]

Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
One more point,maybe cats should go out to gay spots to see what moves them.I'm not talking about "Cicuit" tunes either. Ha Ha @ Circuit

[darrow]

Entertain me for a sec...

House is boring.
It's boring because it lacks...energy...grit...bump...whatever you want to call it.
It lacks these things because producers intentionally or unintentionally are making music that typically appeals to heterosexual, non-dancing males.
If producers would stop doing the above, and instead made music that appealed to gay men, then the energy, grit, bump and whatever would be back in the music.
House would no longer be boring.

Is that the gist?

[Drrtynewyork]

i have to disagree with some of this...

many of the european clubs are packed with straight people dancing (female & male) to "straight dance music" either filtered house, house, techno , trance etc

not everyone has soul and can dance to deep,soulful house music. hence trance, cheesy techno etc.

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by darrow:
Entertain me for a sec...

House is boring.
It's boring because it lacks...energy...grit...bump...whatever you want to call it.
It lacks these things because producers intentionally or unintentionally are making music that typically appeals to heterosexual, non-dancing males.
If producers would stop doing the above, and instead made music that appealed to gay men, then the energy, grit, bump and whatever would be back in the music.
House would no longer be boring.

Is that the gist? tah-dah...ding, ding, ding!!

also, thanks to JMNYC for playing the role of my interpreter....

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
i have to disagree with some of this...

many of the european clubs are packed with straight people dancing (female & male) to "straight dance music" either filtered house, house, techno , trance etc

not everyone has soul and can dance to deep,soulful house music. hence trance, cheesy techno etc. as usual, you make no sense....

[Drrtynewyork]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
i have to disagree with some of this...

many of the european clubs are packed with straight people dancing (female & male) to "straight dance music" either filtered house, house, techno , trance etc

not everyone has soul and can dance to deep,soulful house music. hence trance, cheesy techno etc. as usual, you make no sense.... </font>[/QUOTE]i make no sense????? im not even going to bother

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
i have to disagree with some of this...

many of the european clubs are packed with straight people dancing (female & male) to "straight dance music" either filtered house, house, techno , trance etc

not everyone has soul and can dance to deep,soulful house music. hence trance, cheesy techno etc. as usual, you make no sense.... </font>[/QUOTE]i make no sense????? im not even going to bother </font>[/QUOTE]stick to the topic or start a new one, that's what I meant. Write in clear, concise, and complete thoughts, please.

[darrow]

One thing that I'm having trouble wrapping my thoughts around is the notion of using the gay male as the benchmark.

I think I'm having that trouble because of what I see in DC. The focus (at least for the 18yo to 30yo crowd) is definitely mainstream hip hop/rap/r&b. House started taking a back seat (or small room/back room importance) a couple of years ago at least. At a couple of the parties bangin, clangin, pumpin House WAS the focus.

There's one spot here called The Delta where the music typically was PUMPIN...but interesting enough, many people got bored with that sound. At one point many many years ago, I thought The Delta was one of the best House clubs in DC (and also unknown to the majority of people who typically went to non-black-gay spots) but the sound got redundant/boring sounding. Hip Hop got big there and had more listeners. This was about 2 years ago. Not sure what it's like there now.

I guess I mention this because I'm trying to envision myself telling a producer "go check this crowd out and see what they are paryting to" when in essence that crowd is listening to many different sounds and more and more that sound is not even House. Maybe this is just a DC phenomenon though.

I'm also having trouble totally agreeing with the premise because it is based on an assumption that gays all like/listen to banging (isn't that relative?) stuff.

Soo...I'm here to learn. I'd like to hear more thoughts on this.

[darrow]

One other thing I wanted to add that isn't in support of my previous post, but is more of an additional thought...

I wonder if the banging bumping sound at The Delta got boring because the quantity of banging tunes was so few that it seemed like the DJ was keeping the same 10 tracks in rotation not just for months but for years. An example: I think Submissive's Women Beat Their Men must've been in his peak hour set for at least a whole year. There was a joke going around that you could expect to hear the exact same banging tunes every time you went, no matter when you went.

Again...I mention this because I'm wondering if the lack of new banging material at that spot(thus producers not cranking out this Delta-like stuff) is a real world example of at least a portion of Lil Ray's original premise. Producers just don't make that kind of stuff?

[kev]

Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
My point is,sometimes you need to experience things outside of your confort zone for a change.Very true. It may not be for you, but at least it will open your mind.

[D J 1 3 8]

Back in 1987 when I was a punk-ass kid who didn't know the names of any of the house genres, I would go in to Vinylmania and ask them to reccomend some music. When they asked me what kind of house I liked, my answer was "I dunno...gay black house?" This used to get a chuckle, but they knew what I meant.

[Number Two]

I have actually been to some gay clubs that played the worst crap I have ever heard. Most of them played re-mixes from top 40 music. Shit like Billy Ray Martin,Cher and Lefouch(Beat my Lover). I am not generalizing all gay clubs,but a lot of them play the familier shit with the same sounds in them with the same hooks just to keep the screemin' queens on the floor.

What is the sound you are talking about,Ray? What are the elements to this style that you are talking about? What are the instruments? Is it a more fem sound? I wouldn't mind doing some hard leatherman music. No kidding! Maybe have something like "Male Stripper" instrumental and just adding two men having sex sounds on top of it. I think that whole macho leatherman style should come back. Kinda like the leather bar version of the video to FGTH's "Relax". Peace.

[discofan]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
HML, don't be mad1.gif - I'm just tellin the truth bruh.

YOU are one the exceptions to the rule....
hehe I'm the second exceptions,but i can see the lilRay's point,the solutions is---&gt;go to party after 02.30AM,then the atmosphere is pure from no-orientation :D elements /at least for the my location/

[Cheddar]

I gotta agree with TAC.
But along the lines of the thread...the lack of musicianship has grown and deteriorated the standards which comprise a song.

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by Walter Jones:
What is the sound you are talking about,Ray? ...get your hand on the new Mr. Frankie Knuckles' "Back in the day" and see what I'm talking about....or play the new Kevin Yost's "Blow your Mind"

[JMNYC]

do you think that women and gay men are more in touch with their emotions or allow themselves to get emotional more? Just wondering if this might be relevant ... many straight men I know have had problems allowing themselves to really "feel" ... or at least to express what they "feel".

As dance is a form of expression, do you think that there is some correlation to society telling men that they are supposed to be hard and not be emotional as opposed to women or gay men who are already bucking what society has told them they are "supposed" to be?

just curious.

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
do you think that women and gay men are more in touch with their emotions or allow themselves to get emotional more? Just wondering if this might be relevant ... many straight men I know have had problems allowing themselves to really "feel" ... or at least to express what they "feel".

As dance is a form of expression, do you think that there is some correlation to society telling men that they are supposed to be hard and not be emotional as opposed to women or gay men who are already bucking what society has told them they are "supposed" to be?

just curious. I think I'm exempt from the above question since I answered it with this particular post....I see this was put up at 2:12(CST) and still no answer....I think you got your answer, Jon.....

...here's another interesting question, something to get some flame under this topic again:

Do you think one of the demise of this thing some call HOUSE, is the insurgence of the angry homophobic straight male into a scene that was obviously gay?

I could have started another topic with this, but folks may accuse me of monopolizing the good topics..... ;)

...discuss among yourself...oh, my answer is, the elders saw it coming and that's why they were so pissed when they saw us in the party!

[ July 01, 2003, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

[Tee Cee 13]

I gotta hand it to ya Lil Ray, you come up with some really off the wall stuff... this thread has to take the PIE... If nothing eles.

icon_rofl.gif

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by T.C.:
I gotta hand it to ya Lil Ray, you come up with some really off the wall stuff... this thread has to take the PIE... If nothing eles.

icon_rofl.gif graemlins/acclaim.gif

....just saying the things that others know, but don't wanna say, or can't put the thought in words

[AK]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Walter Jones:
What is the sound you are talking about,Ray? ...get your hand on the new Mr. Frankie Knuckles' "Back in the day" and see what I'm talking about....or play the new Kevin Yost's "Blow your Mind" </font>[/QUOTE]Ray, I'm curious as to why you drew that particular conclusion re "Bac N Da Day." Not saying it's the hottest track out there (and definitely not my favorite from the forthcoming lp), but it doesn't necessarily say "str8 male" to me. Just curious.

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by AK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Walter Jones:
What is the sound you are talking about,Ray? ...get your hand on the new Mr. Frankie Knuckles' "Back in the day" and see what I'm talking about....or play the new Kevin Yost's "Blow your Mind" </font>[/QUOTE]Ray, I'm curious as to why you drew that particular conclusion re "Bac N Da Day." Not saying it's the hottest track out there (and definitely not my favorite from the forthcoming lp), but it doesn't necessarily say "str8 male" to me. Just curious. </font>[/QUOTE]HUH???? You must have mis-read what I was saying....because this is the complete opposite of what I said....I hope you don't think I'm talking about the "choo choo" with Robert Owens track of the same name....

wheel and come again...

[AK]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Walter Jones:
What is the sound you are talking about,Ray? ...get your hand on the new Mr. Frankie Knuckles' "Back in the day" and see what I'm talking about....or play the new Kevin Yost's "Blow your Mind" </font>[/QUOTE]Ray, I'm curious as to why you drew that particular conclusion re "Bac N Da Day." Not saying it's the hottest track out there (and definitely not my favorite from the forthcoming lp), but it doesn't necessarily say "str8 male" to me. Just curious. </font>[/QUOTE]HUH???? You must have mis-read what I was saying....because this is the complete opposite of what I said....I hope you don't think I'm talking about the "choo choo" with Robert Owens track of the same name....

wheel and come again... </font>[/QUOTE]No, we're talking about the same (FK's) track. I didn't read Walter's entire post, so I guess I misunderstood which category you were putting the track in. Gotcha now.

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
do you think that women and gay men are more in touch with their emotions or allow themselves to get emotional more? Just wondering if this might be relevant ... many straight men I know have had problems allowing themselves to really "feel" ... or at least to express what they "feel".

As dance is a form of expression, do you think that there is some correlation to society telling men that they are supposed to be hard and not be emotional as opposed to women or gay men who are already bucking what society has told them they are "supposed" to be?

just curious. I'll speak for myself only


NO

[Red D]

And the longer summer evenings must just fly...

I wonder with all the genius solutions given on the DHP to 'save' house, how come people are still listening to any other music?

RD

[darrow]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
do you think that women and gay men are more in touch with their emotions or allow themselves to get emotional more? Just wondering if this might be relevant ... many straight men I know have had problems allowing themselves to really "feel" ... or at least to express what they "feel".

As dance is a form of expression, do you think that there is some correlation to society telling men that they are supposed to be hard and not be emotional as opposed to women or gay men who are already bucking what society has told them they are "supposed" to be?

just curious. (JMNYC, i'm quoting you but the response is really for all)

I read this question yesterday and couldn't come up with a coherent answer AND tie that answer to the premise of the thread. So again...entertain me for a sec...

If the answer is "yes, women and gays are more in touch with their emotions", I'm wondering how that answer can be tied into the thread.

If it's "yes", does that mean being emotionally intouch allows a person to be more emotionally responsive to music and does that responsiveness translate to more energy on the dancefloor?

For those that are not intouch and I guess "free to express", their responsiveness is a great deal less and translates into more standing around?

If we bring producers back into the picture (that's where this thread was focused I think)...many producers are making boring "straight male focused" (which translates into typically-emotionally-not-in-touch?). If they focused on the emotionally-in-touch (gays and women?), the music would not be boring?

So I just went through that exercise and had a thought...maybe it's not JUST that women and gays are more in-touch, thus more expressive. Maybe many women and gays are drawn to and perhaps want stuff that is more expressive...less laid back? (I know I'm stretching, but as I said...entertain me. I'm not saying I believe this, but I'm putting it out there) :D

Personally, I'm not sure I believe that women and gays are more in-touch. Maybe more expressive, but does that translate into intouch? Intouch seems to imply...emotionally self-aware. I've definitely met my share of unaware women and gays.

Ok...I've rambled on enough. Thanks for listening.

[Cheddar]

A question which may open doors for the topic.
When I hear most of the new "Soulful" House vocals..I think Humphries and Europe. Before ya'll start..I gotz nothing but love, I got a box full of tapes..so dont trip. My point is not that Europe and/or Tony is/are wack...but that the vocal sound is predominated by gospel influenced singers (not bad) but the beats and music are still quite ordinary and early nineties.
I dont really know if the music is directed to straight males...RAY expound....but that the sound is not relative to life anymore...and yes it isnt really touching the average woman...
Am I on to something???