What are you doing to improve your financial condition??

[julian_kelly]

After looking at lil ray's post about buying stocks in the current market, I think it important for us to discuss:

"What are you doing to improve your financial future?"

If you have money you can start a record label, a club, a radio station, a promotions company and CONTROL you destiny. You can more effectivly serve God, your family, yourself and your community.

What is your financial plan?

Please respond....and if you dont have one:

1. Thats ok (for now) ... admit you dont have one ... step #1 is admitting you have a problem.

2. Seek counsel and research on how to get one. Plenty of folk around here can get you some sort of info. And you dont have to have boookoo $$ to make money.

Ill post my plan a little bit later..

Who's first?

peace and money
julian kelly

[The Buddy Love Show]

401K..stock fund..savings...and accelerated payments on my revolving credit debt...6 months earnings salted away in emergency fund...a home...also own a couple thousand shares in my company waiting for my tearget price to pop up

[Martin Red]

Financial plans and investment and the future.

End of each month is as far as it goes for some.

Salaries and your outgoing keep people from looking too far into to future, what a depressing post (for some).

If I wanted to talk about money I would be on an accountants message board, how boring would that be ?

Muisc can be an escapism from every day toil.
Wolfes from door, i wish daddy was a investment banker then i've have a studio a record label and a club.

My priorities are probably music and travelling over investments, silly me hey !

Oh well I am an artistic sought, more so than a mathematician sought

Interested to hear your plan all the same.

[ May 15, 2002, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

[Brian]

A well diversified Goldman Sachs managed portfolio with about 60% geared towards long term steady growth stocks, 20% towards short term higher risk stocks (and thus possibly higher gain), and 20% in bonds.

Beyond that I research and do some short term higher risk investing on my own, but only when I have really done my homework.

[bitonti]

i spend all my money on vinyl and weed.

[julian_kelly]

This is a depressing post?

Youll definitely be depressed financially for the rest of your life with that attitude.

You talk about music being your escape...but you cant even afford to buy enough of the music that is 'your escape'

You CAN have the studio and club that you desire....learn how to make money and it can happen

People need to get out of the 'broke mentality' and get a new way of thinking...folk need to stop being scared to talk about money....its nothing but a tool thats attainable

....you just gotta know how to play the game and its a cryin shame most people dont want to learn how to play the game and end up losing BIG TIME by default.

julian kelly


Originally posted by Martin Red:
Financial plans and investment and the future.

End of each month is as far as it goes for some.

Salaries and your outgoing keep people from looking too far into to future, what a depressing post (for some).

If I wanted to talk about money I would be on an accountants message board, how boring would that be ?

Muisc can be an escapism from every day toil.
Wolfes from door, i wish daddy was a investment banker then i've have a studio a record label and a club.

My priorities are probably music and travelling over investments, silly me hey !

Oh well I am an artistic sought, more so than a mathematician sought

Interested to hear your plan all the same.

[julian_kelly]

My financial plan is detailed and centers around several things.

1. WHY….. Why do I want to make money? Why is it important?
In my opinion, if you don’t know the reason why you are doing something, you wont be happy. In a nutshell, the primary reason that I have been inspired to build wealth is to support and advance the growth of my Christian beliefs and second to financially help the underprivileged. Basically, my goal is to make gobs of money to give it away to folk who need help. After helping people, my main reason is freedom. I hated working a job… hated it. I want the freedom to do what I want to do when I want to do it. I hate having people tell me what to do. In addition, I wanna live a prosperous financial life and enjoy life’s trappings – and there’s nothing wrong with that if you keep everything in perspective

2. HOW? My plan centers around: 1. business ownership and 2. investing the profits in my business in other assets.

One thing a guy I know who is worth over $10 million told me is that a “job only provides for food, clothing and shelter….rarely anything else….. and usually if you do land a job with a huge mega salary, it comes with a price,” ie. long hours, too much responsibility, politics, stress etc. The only jobs I know where you can make serious cash with no strings attached are sales jobs that are incentive/commissioned based. Other than that it will be extremely hard to get ahead financially.

In today’s times, it’s close to impossible to ‘get paid’ or let alone ‘make ends meet’ with merely a job. How many people do you know who worked for forty years and retired wealthy? It doesn’t happen…period. If you aren’t efficiently investing your salary, and/or looking to create another stream of income you will never get ahead….that’s just the way the game is played… gotta understand capitalism or you get crushed.

Therefore, on a part-time basis I started a marketing and consulting business that I ran during the night and on the weekends. After six years, I quit my job to pursue it full time. I like running my own business because it gives me the freedom to do what I want to do. Also it is the one investment where I can truly control my income and not depend on anyone else

I invest the profits from my business in 1. the stock market and 2. real estate and also arrange everything I do into making money short term and long term

Short term for me is one week to six months. I like making money now and not later; if I have more money now, I will definitely have more money later; I deal with the tax consequences by forming proper shelters, deductions and giving. In the market, I will purchase some call or put options if I want to make immediate cash ($2,3,$500 to a few thousand) with a time frame of a week to a few months. To find these deals, I simply look in the paper for big newsy items; its also good to have a relationship with a broker. If Im dealing with a real estate and want immediate cash I will look to do a lease option or assign a property for a few thousand dollars. The real estate short term time frame is usually two to six months. Heck… a while ago, I took a three day course and paid around $200 to get an insurance license. I don’t use it much, but if worse came to worse and I needed to make a thousand or two in a week, I could run 10 appointments, close 2 a few and have a G or two in my pocket. Making money is just a change in mindset

For long term money, I again invest my short term profits in the market and real estate and let it sit there without touching it. I dollar cost average into a s&p fund every month as well as a janus fund. I also consistently buy shares of Microsoft, Cisco and Intel. As far as real estate, I dabble in rental property. Pretty soon I'll start buying notes.

3. HOW TO GAIN THE KNOWLEDGE?

READ !!! READ !! READ !! READ !! READ !!! READ!!

Increase your financial literacy.

You can tell a person by the books they read… If I came to your house and looked in your bookcase and saw no money books there, I would immediately assume that you are broke. Am I correct?

You can go to the business section of a bookstore or the library and find 10 ways to make a million dollars in an hour. The problem is most folk don’t read. You can search on the internet and find tons of ways to make money

GET A MENTOR. Find someone who has what you want and copy them. Youll be surprised at the help someone will give you if you simply ask.

4. GIVING. To me giving is the #1 way to achieve wealth. I strongly believe in tithing. I give away at least 10% of everything I make. Its mind boggling how I’m blessed in return. Wealth doesn’t mean anything if you don’t help others along the way

I’ve been fortunate to know several millionaires and folk worth several hundreds of thousands of dollars. It blows my mind the types of things they can do because they have financial freedom. I remember one day recently everybody on DHP was complaining about how hard it was to start a club. I called up a guy I know who’s a millionaire and asked him “How difficult would it be for you to get a $2million dollar loan? He replied “I can have it done in about a week or less if I push it” I then asked him “If you wanted to open a million dollar nite club, how long would it take you to do it?” He replied “Not long…maybe six months to put together a plan and build the thing….the biggest hurdle I would have to deal with would be a liquor licence, codes and political support…but that’s no big deal….I have money.”

Folks… you don’t have to be rich if you don’t want to, but at least have some control over your your financial destiny...most people have none... lose your job....miss two paychecks and thats it...over...done....finished

Learn to change it

More ramblings later

julian kelly

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by julian_kelly:
This is a depressing post?

Youll definitely be depressed financially for the rest of your life with that attitude.

You talk about music being your escape...but you cant even afford to buy enough of the music that is 'your escape'

You CAN have the studio and club that you desire....learn how to make money and it can happen

People need to get out of the 'broke mentality' and get a new way of thinking...folk need to stop being scared to talk about money....its nothing but a tool thats attainable

....you just gotta know how to play the game and its a cryin shame most people dont want to learn how to play the game and end up losing BIG TIME by default.

julian kelly

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Martin Red:
Financial plans and investment and the future.

End of each month is as far as it goes for some.

Salaries and your outgoing keep people from looking too far into to future, what a depressing post (for some).

If I wanted to talk about money I would be on an accountants message board, how boring would that be ?

Muisc can be an escapism from every day toil.
Wolfes from door, i wish daddy was a investment banker then i've have a studio a record label and a club.

My priorities are probably music and travelling over investments, silly me hey !

Oh well I am an artistic sought, more so than a mathematician sought

Interested to hear your plan all the same.</font>[/QUOTE]Thanks Julian, It's always the people that have It that tell you it's attainable, I can afford the music, (most of the time), depends what is released .
I am taking note of your advice all the same.

;)

[Mah'chew]

Originally posted by bitonti:
i spend all my money on vinyl and weed.Adda Boy !!!!

[imported_Gman]

Plan:
Maxmized 403B thru my Job, Automatic additions to Mutual Funds outside of retirement, 4 months emergency fund, Home, except for my mortgage I have zero debt. I refinanced recently from 7.25 to 6.35 and went from a 20 Year to 15 year home loan. We send in an extra principle payment every month in order to pay down the mortage faster. I need to open a ROTH IRA.

One key point in investing is to have your investments automatically deducted from your check or bank account so that you don't have to think about them.

[matt b]

What I think we all should do.

1. Try to get rid of the FED that is printing counterfeit money and creating this national debt that we have. The stock market is over valued and is a propaganda tool used by the Government to make people think the economy is on the right track. The myth that money can be made by shuffling paper around has to be debunked.

2. We need to get back to the Silver and gold standard as our Constitution prescribed. Currency backed on precious metals always has a definitive value that no one organization can inflate or deflate. When the money runs out we will learn to live within our means, prices will drop and everything will become affordable. We will then begin to pay off our national debt.

3. If we don't take the above steps, we're likely to see 50, 60 or maybe even 70% personal income tax rates. What are we willing to bear? At a certain point, the stock market will collapse and all the mutual funds, Social Security, IRA's and other worthless paper won't be able to help us (or your children).

4. Everybody’s 'plan' should be to collaborate and speak out loudly about why our government sold us out to foreign investors. With enough of us complaining about this, it may be possible for someone to arise and actually makes changes like this without the fear of being assassinated as was J.F.K.

[ May 16, 2002, 12:48 AM: Message edited by: matt b ]

[julian_kelly]

Its all good martin. Actually I've been as poor as the next man. Time when I couldnt pay bills...no insurance...stress....headaches...phone cut off...creditors calling me... all that stuff; but with Gods help and some effort on my part, Ive been able to make some changes.

Nothing was handed to me. Ive struggled. For the six years that it took for me to get my business ideas up, I didnt buy any records lol!! Im just like the next man. And I still have a looooooooooong way to go. All I'm tryin to say is that it can be done. So many folk need to be freed from poverty and lack.

As long as people are afraid to talk about it, they will be captive

Lets keep the good dialogue rolling..

hope all remains well
julian kelly


Originally posted by Martin Red:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by julian_kelly:
This is a depressing post?

Youll definitely be depressed financially for the rest of your life with that attitude.

You talk about music being your escape...but you cant even afford to buy enough of the music that is 'your escape'

You CAN have the studio and club that you desire....learn how to make money and it can happen

People need to get out of the 'broke mentality' and get a new way of thinking...folk need to stop being scared to talk about money....its nothing but a tool thats attainable

....you just gotta know how to play the game and its a cryin shame most people dont want to learn how to play the game and end up losing BIG TIME by default.

julian kelly

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Martin Red:
Financial plans and investment and the future.

End of each month is as far as it goes for some.

Salaries and your outgoing keep people from looking too far into to future, what a depressing post (for some).

If I wanted to talk about money I would be on an accountants message board, how boring would that be ?

Muisc can be an escapism from every day toil.
Wolfes from door, i wish daddy was a investment banker then i've have a studio a record label and a club.

My priorities are probably music and travelling over investments, silly me hey !

Oh well I am an artistic sought, more so than a mathematician sought

Interested to hear your plan all the same.</font>[/QUOTE]Thanks Julian, It's always the people that have It that tell you it's attainable, I can afford the music, (most of the time), depends what is released .
I am taking note of your advice all the same.

;) </font>[/QUOTE]

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by julian_kelly:
Its all good martin. Actually I've been as poor as the next man. Time when I couldnt pay bills...no insurance...stress....headaches...phone cut off...creditors calling me... all that stuff; but with Gods help and some effort on my part, Ive been able to make some changes.

Nothing was handed to me. Ive struggled. For the six years that it took for me to get my business ideas up, I didnt buy any records lol!! Im just like the next man. And I still have a looooooooooong way to go. All I'm tryin to say is that it can be done. So many folk need to be freed from poverty and lack.

As long as people are afraid to talk about it, they will be captive

Lets keep the good dialogue rolling..

hope all remains well
julian kelly

P O S I T I V I T Y

Traits!
from travelling to U.S I noticed people have a lot more go, dreams, posivity, encouragement.
U.K moans, and being in that enviroment rubs off.

Thanks for reminding me julian.

Keyword "attainable" :D

[Wild i]

Man you need to GET OUT OF MY HEAD! For years I've been saying "you'll never get rich working for someone," yet that's what I do. Far too few investments. Bill collectors interrupting my TV time. Too many "gotta haves."

I'm hoping to change all that very soon (this month). First, quickly eliminate credit card debt (6 mos). Then double-up on the student loan I should never have taken out in the first place butwasjusttoolazytodotheresearchtogetascholarshipa nd/orgrant. Simultaneously start investing in the stock market. Now's the time as it's dropping. I know this. What I don't know is why I haven't done it yet. My only excuse is that I really and truly don't have a grand to plunk down for an account. That's what I've been told it takes. As an extra measure of security, open a savings account and don't touch it. Every time it gets to $500, buy a CD or some other high-yield instrument.

I'm pretty good on the retirement front (right now I'm on track for 3 different types of retirent checks) so that if worse came to worse, I could at least support myself in my old age, but right now I'm broke as a joke, even though I make a decent living wage.

Things gotta change.

[imported_Gman]

Where I "was" back around age 31 (I am now 42):

1) Defaulted student loans (I wasn't paying nothin back, just..just try and get if from me)
2) Credaholic ( 4 credit cards charged to the max). Only making the minimum payment :rolleyes:
3) Bill collectors calling all the time. Afraid to answer the phone.
4) Bad stuff on my credit report
5) Just constantly worrying about money
6) No savings or investments

I was able to fix all of the above by age 34. I burried the bad credit under a mountain of good credit. I also challenged some things that were correct on the credit report but they could not verify them in time so they had to remove them (hehehehe) ;) Now my credit report is perfect\excellent and everybody wants to give me money but they can all kiss my ass.

If I only knew in my 20's what I know now.

[Jacques de Doozu]

i currently work in the highly profitable fishing industry!! there are no big financial plans for me (as stocks and such, frankly, it bores me graemlins/sleep.gif ) just working from 4in the morning til noon...life is hard, but music keeps it sweet graemlins/grinyes.gif

[the crackhouse]

I'm not sure about reading materials help make it...
The only thing I'm sure is that risk is not a big factor, let's say not in all cases. I think it's more the way you think, the way you act.

You have to be smart as a squirrel (as we say in France), and sure of what you are doing.
I mean that in 2 ways SURE :
- sure that your plans are good,
- sure, as "convinced", determinated.

And meet the good persons, and never get down in front of someone, even if this person looks heavily smarter than you are. Always take the "ascendance" on someone always think you're smarter, or it will be equal to equal discussion, whatever the discuss is about.

In France we call it "audace" (audacious ?). When you do things that nobody did think to do, or dared to do.

And I'm 100% with Wild I : no money can be done when working for someone.
I don't know if it cost much to beggin an.."industry"? "society"? "Company"? (damn' dunno the word for) in the US, but in France, you can start with only 2000$. Then you own all the money you worked for (except the state's part - 20%)

I'm starting my own web agency the 228 of may.

go go go go go !

[imported_mhd]

Got a 401k from when I used to work for somebody its 100% Aggressive, high risk/high return
Stock Portfolio
SEP Plan

Currently reviewing real estate deals. One in particular is to buy in a depressed area that is slated for growth, but still under the radar.

G have you considered buying rental property in Chicago? just curious, peace, mark

[imported_Gman]

M,

No, but I am lightly considering buying some rental property here. I do need more knowledge about the in and outs of buying rental property.

-Gerard


Originally posted by mhd:
Got a 401k from when I used to work for somebody its 100% Aggressive, high risk/high return
Stock Portfolio
SEP Plan

Currently reviewing real estate deals. One in particular is to buy in a depressed area that is slated for growth, but still under the radar.

G have you considered buying rental property in Chicago? just curious, peace, mark

[ May 16, 2002, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: Gman ]

[Brian]

With regards to paying down a mortgage faster (via making larger than necessary payments), I choose not to as I make more interest keeping it invested than I lose over time paying off the mortgage. I am lucky to have scored a low mortgage rate which makes this possible though.

[upliftdisco365]

1. Leaving my dream apartment for a cheaper, more practical one as I save for a multi-family, income-generating property.
2. Consolidating my debt.
3. Working Underneath.

[imported_mhd]

Julian had an excellent thread going here a couple of months ago about real estate, with some great links and books. I had considered Chicago since family is still there, I think a lot of the speculation has already occurred. One thing you can do is take a look at the plan for your area to get some idea of what's ahead. Also university towns are great for the constant influx of people, peace, mark


Originally posted by Gman:
M,

No, but I am lightly considering buying some rental property here. I do need more knowledge about the in and outs of buying rental property.

-Gerard

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
Got a 401k from when I used to work for somebody its 100% Aggressive, high risk/high return
Stock Portfolio
SEP Plan

Currently reviewing real estate deals. One in particular is to buy in a depressed area that is slated for growth, but still under the radar.

G have you considered buying rental property in Chicago? just curious, peace, mark</font>[/QUOTE]

[Doug]

1. Recently paid off all revolving credit card debt.

2. Contribute monthly to two ROTH IRA accounts and three mutual funds.

3. Participant in retirement plan at work (although I need to start making additional contributions).

4. Entered into two 529 plans for my kids so that their tuition will be paid by the time they're ready for college.

5. Refinanced my mortgage and home equity loan to drop the rate from 8% to 6.875%, saving us $300 per month (which will be plowed in paying off a graduate school student loan)

6. Beginning plan to pay off a car loan one year early, after which the extra money will go towards a principal payment on my mortgage each month.

Peace,

Doug

[imported_mhd]

Originally posted by Doug:
1. Recently paid off all revolving credit card debt.

2. Contribute monthly to two ROTH IRA accounts and three mutual funds.

3. Participant in retirement plan at work (although I need to start making additional contributions).

4. Entered into two 529 plans for my kids so that their tuition will be paid by the time they're ready for college.

5. Refinanced my mortgage and home equity loan to drop the rate from 8% to 6.875%, saving us $300 per month (which will be plowed in paying off a graduate school student loan)

6. Beginning plan to pay off a car loan one year early, after which the extra money will go towards a principal payment on my mortgage each month.

Peace,

DougDoug, #4 is brilliant, could you explain it here so peeps can understand, and #3 if your employer matches, you know what I'm going to say, everybody has their own strategy but you wonder is it better to pay down debt or invest and grow, especially with someone elses money, peace, mark

[Doug]

Originally posted by mhd:
Doug, #4 is brilliant, could you explain it here so peeps can understand,
In short, a "529" college savings plan allows you to pay for your child's college tuition at today's rates. By the time my kids are ready for college, we will have paid into the plan the equivalent of two 4-year university tuitions at the 2001 tuition rate instead of the 2016 and 2019 tuition rates. The beauty of it is that they don't have to use the money for an in-state school. And if they choose not to go to school (which would prompt a serious ass whuppin' on my part), you can still withdrawal the money (paying penalties and taxes, of course) Here's a link that probably explains it better than I could:

http://money.cnn.com/pf/college/features/529plan/



and #3 if your employer matches, you know what I'm going to say, everybody has their own strategy but you wonder is it better to pay down debt or invest and grow, especially with someone elses money, peace, markMy philosophy over the last few years has been to focus on paying down debt. However, I still have tried to invest, even it has been small amounts.

Peace,

Doug

[ May 16, 2002, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Doug ]

[imported_Gman]

Someone asked for some suggestions on how I got out of debt. This is what I wrote..

.....

1) I had to face up to the problem which sounds like you are ready to do. You have to stop the downward slide and reverse course.

2) You only owe $13,000 ? Why that's just the cost of a cheap car smile.gif

3) Take complete responsibility for all the debt that you have accumulated instead of hiding from it. I called all of my creditors and told them that its my bad, I am ready to start working out a way to make this debt good. In other words work out some type of payment arrangment with each creditor. Tell them you are doing this with all your creditors and you can only afford to send $$$ a month. Even if they are disagreeable with you on the phone tell them you plan to start out with this much and increase it over time, but you will make this debt good. They will try to get you to borrow more money from someone else to pay off their debt put don't do it. When they call always pickup and explain that you again have every intention of making this debt good. Make sure you send them at least something (even its only 5 or ten dollars)every month to show your intention. So call them, don't wait for them to call you. Once you have made some type of arrangements with yor creditors (in my case some were lawyers who had gotten judgements) you will feel a lot better.

As each debt gets paid off switch that money over to the other debts. Your goal has to be to be completely debt free. I am not talking about good debt (Mortage). Anytime you borrow money to buy something that "increases" in value is good debt.

4) You have to stop the buying madness and live within your means. The only way to truly get ahead is to spend less that you earn, bottom line. Realize that everything in this society is designed to get your money from you. I know how that sounds but if you stop and think about it...

5) You must stop using revolving credit cards. I only use mine if I need to book a hotel, plane tickets or where I need to be protected against faulty merchandise when making a purchase but I then send the money in at the end of the month to pay the charge off in full. You will get to the point where you hate owing anybody any money and find that you can pay for a lot of things in cash. When you use credit cards to buy things you don't feel the pain. Try taking out cash if you can for that next purchase and see if you still want it after having to peel off hundred dollar bills to pay for something you think you want.

Once you have paid off all your high interest debt then start thinking about doing some investing. So what I'm saying is the best investment you can make right now is to get out of debt. If you can get out of debt by age 30 you will be ahead of the game in my opinion.

Each day you have to be able to say I am getting further out of debt rather than going deeper into debt. Take it one day at a time.

You also need to get a copy of your credit report and look that over so you can see what all good and bad things are on their.

Just some thoughts...

-Gerard

[ May 16, 2002, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Gman ]

[The Buddy Love Show]

Originally posted by matt b:
What I think we all should do.

1. Try to get rid of the FED that is printing counterfeit money and creating this national debt that we have. The stock market is over valued and is a propaganda tool used by the Government to make people think the economy is on the right track. The myth that money can be made by shuffling paper around has to be debunked.

2. We need to get back to the Silver and gold standard as our Constitution prescribed. Currency backed on precious metals always has a definitive value that no one organization can inflate or deflate. When the money runs out we will learn to live within our means, prices will drop and everything will become affordable. We will then begin to pay off our national debt.

3. If we don't take the above steps, we're likely to see 50, 60 or maybe even 70% personal income tax rates. What are we willing to bear? At a certain point, the stock market will collapse and all the mutual funds, Social Security, IRA's and other worthless paper won't be able to help us (or your children).

4. Everybody’s 'plan' should be to collaborate and speak out loudly about why our government sold us out to foreign investors. With enough of us complaining about this, it may be possible for someone to arise and actually makes changes like this without the fear of being assassinated as was J.F.K...ignorant statement #1

Try to get rid of the FED that is printing counterfeit money and creating this national debt that we have.

***The Fed doesn't "print "money as needed

ignorant statement #2

The stock market is over valued and is a propaganda tool used by the Government to make people think the economy is on the right track.

***Government has nothing to do with the stock market outside of regulation to ensure fairness....remember Greenspans "irrational exuberance comments"...that was a reminder that unlike banks the government does not ensure liquidity of the market

Ignorant statement #3
We need to get back to the Silver and gold standard as our Constitution prescribed.

***Then that would make Africa the wealthiest continent on the planet eh?...Nixon took us out of this for a reason and 99% of economists agree. The only dissenters live in fallout shelters in Wyoming

Beyond ignorant..just plain silly statements

Currency backed on precious metals always has a definitive value that no one organization can inflate or deflate. When the money runs out we will learn to live within our means, prices will drop and everything will become affordable. We will then begin to pay off our national debt.
***So wht you are saying then is that the economy can only grow a finite amount...even with population rising...the effects of "crowding out" would be apocolyptic....the rest is just nonsense

Back to ignorant statements

Currency backed on precious metals always has a definitive value that no one organization can inflate or deflate. When the money runs out we will learn to live within our means, prices will drop and everything will become affordable. We will then begin to pay off our national debt.
***Do you know why a crash of the market today(btw...the crash of 89 was much more severe than the crash of 29 and NONE OF WHAT you postulate happened) would not lead to what you describe?
1. Banks aren't allowed the speculative leeway
2 Mortgages are not immediately callable as due....this by the way was the straw that really led to the depression by breaking the camels back

OUTRIGHT BULLSHIT

Everybody’s 'plan' should be to collaborate and speak out loudly about why our government sold us out to foreign investors. With enough of us complaining about this, it may be possible for someone to arise and actually makes changes like this without the fear of being assassinated as was J.F.K.

***I don't know who's feeding you this stuff but i have one piece of advice...DON'T DRINK THE KOOL-AID

btw...i'm not calling you ignorant..just your statements...you are misinformed..imo

[ May 16, 2002, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: MAGUS ]

[shawn]

graemlins/1luvu.gif
I LOVE all of you guys. This is the best post I've seen in quite sometime. I'm 33 and the light came on a few months ago. My credit isn't that bad actually. I, like G-Man, only use credit cars for rental cars, hotels and airplane tickets. And I pay them IMMEDIATELY. (No time to gain interest).
Julian, Doug, MHD, G, I want to be JUST like you someday. I'm gonna start NOW.

[The Buddy Love Show]

Originally posted by Gman:
Where I "was" back around age 31 (I am now 42):

1) Defaulted student loans (I wasn't paying nothin back, just..just try and get if from me)
2) Credaholic ( 4 credit cards charged to the max). Only making the minimum payment :rolleyes:
3) Bill collectors calling all the time. Afraid to answer the phone.
4) Bad stuff on my credit report
5) Just constantly worrying about money
6) No savings or investments

I was able to fix all of the above by age 34. I burried the bad credit under a mountain of good credit. I also challenged some things that were correct on the credit report but they could not verify them in time so they had to remove them (hehehehe) ;) Now my credit report is perfect\excellent and everybody wants to give me money but they can all kiss my ass.

If I only knew in my 20's what I know now.damn...did i change my name to G-Man...thats my story....Damn those eighties...GOGO 80s is right..banks were giving out credit cards like candy....i had 9 and i maxed em all...sheet 2 words of adviice 1 PAY THEM OFF AND DON'T FILE BANKRUPTCY (hell if desperate they'll take cents on the dollar)...2. AMEX and the phone company WILL NEVER GIVE UP...EVER

[imported_mhd]

What about this scenario regarding bankruptcy.
Hypothetically speaking

WHAT IF I had a debt that was not dischargeble through bankruptcy and credit cards that were, how high would my debt have to be for me to use cash advances on the credit cards to pay off the non-dischargeable debt and then declare bankruptcy which discharges the credit card balances?

[TAC]

Originally posted by MAGUS:
2. AMEX and the phone company WILL NEVER GIVE UP...EVERYea, but unlike Amex the phone company's credit info does not go on the "public" credit reporting ssytem. Same for most utilities.

So if your gonna dick one, who do you dick first?

Leave the lights on or off. Uhm that's a tuff one!

[The Buddy Love Show]

Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MAGUS:
2. AMEX and the phone company WILL NEVER GIVE UP...EVERYea, but unlike Amex the phone company's credit info does not go on the "public" credit reporting ssytem. Same for most utilities.

So if your gonna dick one, who do you dick first?

Leave the lights on or off. Uhm that's a tuff one!</font>[/QUOTE]"KNOCK THRE TIMES..on the ceiling if you want me
Twice on the pipes...."

[Bernie]

Me, aggressively paying off my debts each month. I have an IRA where I contribute money deducted from my checking account each month. It's good especially that I can deduct the contribution (up to $3,000 this year and I think up to $5,000 next year) from my taxes.

[julian_kelly]

Discussion is going good… keep the comments coming

Now lets add another twist to it. Consider this question:

What are you doing to make immediate income NOW??? Not 30 years from now at retirement, but NOW!!

It is imperative to plan for the future; in addition is equally imperative to make money NOW.

Most people need money NOW…cashflow now…financial relief now. Why wait ? If you have more money now, you can invest it and have more money later.

Don’t let your IRA or 401-k be your only vehicle for making loot. You cant touch it now so what good does it do you in the short term. You are in a financial crisis NOW so plan accordingly

Some thoughts:

1. I know of this fifteen year old kid who started a lawn cutting service with his little buddy. They both borrowed the family lawnmower (2 total) and started cutting lawns in the neighborhood. Part time these kids pull in around $1,000 a month

2. I know of a lady who recently had a daughter and refused to let other people raise her kids, so she chose to stay at home. She started looking for ways to make extra cash and ended up finding a cheap recipe for soap. She sells her soap to her friends and family and pulls in from $500-800 a month.

3. I met a guy who loves to bake. He started baking pies and selling them to his friends and church members simply to make extra cash. Seven years later, he has his pies in convenience stores across the city

4. What if you write and want to get published?? Work your way in thru the backdoor. Market yourself to the writing community as and editor. Independently edit other folks work for a reasonable fee. In turn you help other writers shape their vision, make some extra cash and build valuable relationships. You build up your resume and sharpen your craft. Eventually someone will hear about you. Build your network large enough and the breaks will come.

5. I heard of a guy who details/washes cars at a family owned gas station. It’s a win/win situation. His customers get a carwash and end up getting gas at the gas station. They split the water bill/supplied…He gets paid, the gas station owner gets paid

6. I know a kid who is extremely responsible in karate… he has a black belt. I know business… he knows karate… we are thinking about renting out a small spot and doing karate lessons on the weekend. I market his business..he does karate… we both get paid.

7. Think of your skills and who needs your skills… start doing part-time work doing helping others with your skills.

8. Learn sales… learn how to sell yourself….if you can talk a good game you can get just about anything you want in this world

9. Partner with rich people. What skills do you have that can make someone rich, richer. They front money, you come with the idea and expertise. Maybe you want to get into real estate, but don’t have extra money at the time. Take around three months and research real estate in your spare time… write a plan on what areas are hot and an efficient strategy on how to buy and sell. Go to a person with money and show them how you can help THEM make money. Do a good deal for them and you have their attention for life. Rich people like easy money, but NEVER go to a rich person without a plan.

10. Take real estate courses at night or on the weekend. You DO NOT have to have a real estate liscense to invest in real estate.

11. Pay a few hundred dollars and become an insurance broker on a part-time basis… you can make a grand a week part time in insurance without blinking

12. Figure our what you are willing to give up. Cut back on entertainment (clubbing, records, clothes, liquor, cigarettes, eating out) for a while. Save that cash and put it into something that will make you money NOW. Get your freedom back and then you can club and buy records all you want.

13. Buy books about financial literacy… again… I often tell how much money a person makes by the books they buy. Poor people have big TVs and entertainment systems. Rich folk have libraries.

14. Realize that you wont make serious money by simply working a job… it doesn’t happen.

15. Do the opposite of what the masses do.

16. Be in it for the long term. Success doesn’t happen immediately and it aint easy. Learn to be comfortable in discomfort.

17. Start SMALL but dream BIG. So what if you only make an extra $100 or so. Thats more that what you had before. Sharpen your skills and the money you make in the short turn will go from hundreds to thousands. The point is the START doing something

18. Learn to LOVE failure. Failure is essential to growth. I get better and stronger each time I fail. I love failure. The more times I fail the more money I make. If you don’t fail, you remain where you are. So at least fail/fall forward and progress. Make sense?

19. Don’t quit

20-100. It aint easy… don’t quit

Learn to make money NOW.. not later, but NOW. An extra $200, $500, $1,000, $5,000 made within a week to 6 months can really help most people. Learn to make $1,000 NOW– invest $500 long term and plop the other $500 on a bill, give it to someone who needs it or buy an asset that will make you more money

Make more loot and you can buy all the records you want OR keep your current mindset/practices and deal with lack for the rest of your life on earth.

more stuff later

julian kelly

[ May 16, 2002, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: julian_kelly ]

[The Buddy Love Show]

Thanks for the words Julian...I'm one hundred percent feeling you

Mark

[GrantB]

Ok I'm about it. I've come to a point in my life recently where I'm happy in a lot of other ways but the green energy department needs the main focus, and it's really becoming an issue. I'm inspired and motivated to start making real money and securing my future, but I need guidance as to where to begin. So where do you start when you're starting from 0?

I've always known to avoid debt but I feel like that's left me at 0, which is better than -$40k like some people I know but still zip. Are you cats really saying that you wouldn't have started out on credit cards when you were in your twenties, or just that you pay them off right away now that you have credit established? I feel stifled in some ways because I have no credit, but I don't want to owe either. What's a good way to get in without being sucked in? One does need to establish credit, right?

Next, how do I start investing from the 0 level? Obviously I need to save a few bucks first but I'm pretty clueless as to what to do after that. Can you guys recommend a beginners book to get me started?

PS thanks for sharing your stories. I needed to hear from some peeps with positive attitude because especially with the current financial climate here, I'm surrounded by apathetic loosers and I want out!

[Erob the One]

First of all you need to sit down and make a plan that you can measure. It is not always easy to stick to it so consider that when you are planning initially.

Me personally, I have a two income family. My goal is to live on one salary and totally bank/invest the entire amount of the other salary for a ten year period. I set short term and long terms goals that are reasonable.

Most importantly, don't succumb to consumer spending. Who needs a closet full of clothes that are going to go out of style??

The best advice I have seen in this thread is to give money away. Please be charitable. The result are amazing.

Good post and nice advice on the replies. Remember, cash on hand is always best. A fist full of dollars can bargin much better than a promise note!!!!

Erob

[julian_kelly]

Having no credit is not a problem at all.... actually, in my opinion, no credit is better than bad credit.

To establish credit, you can do something as simple as get a gas card, department store card or credit card...us it and make sure you pay off the balance every month

How to get started.

1. Figure out why you want to achieve wealth. What is it important?

2. Start to read

Three great starting books in my opinion are:

** "Think and Grow Rich" Napoleon Hill
Talks about the mindset of achieving wealth
http://shop.barnesandnob le.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?salesurl=Ishop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp&isbn=158063205X#customerReviews (http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?salesurl=Ishop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp&isbn=158063205X#customerReviews)

** "Rich Dad Poor Dad" Robert Kiyosaki
http://www6.richdad.com/default.jsp

Talks about the necessity of taking control of your financial future and how you have to think differently than the masses to achieve wealth

** "Multiple Streams of Income" Robert Allen
http://multiplestreamsofincome.com/

Talks about different areas to make money in and how to do it

All three of these books are very easy to read. I would read them in the order listed

3. Find a mentor. Find somebody in your area who has what you want and copy what they do.

more later
julian kelly


Originally posted by GrantB:
Ok I'm about it. I've come to a point in my life recently where I'm happy in a lot of other ways but the green energy department needs the main focus, and it's really becoming an issue. I'm inspired and motivated to start making real money and securing my future, but I need guidance as to where to begin. So where do you start when you're starting from 0?

I've always known to avoid debt but I feel like that's left me at 0, which is better than -$40k like some people I know but still zip. Are you cats really saying that you wouldn't have started out on credit cards when you were in your twenties, or just that you pay them off right away now that you have credit established? I feel stifled in some ways because I have no credit, but I don't want to owe either. What's a good way to get in without being sucked in? One does need to establish credit, right?

Next, how do I start investing from the 0 level? Obviously I need to save a few bucks first but I'm pretty clueless as to what to do after that. Can you guys recommend a beginners book to get me started?

PS thanks for sharing your stories. I needed to hear from some peeps with positive attitude because especially with the current financial climate here, I'm surrounded by apathetic loosers and I want out!

[ May 16, 2002, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: julian_kelly ]

[GrantB]

Thanks Julian I remember those books from the previous thread now. I think I'll actually get them this time!!!

[imported_Gman]

Grant, what I am saying is I wish I had used credit cards responsibly in my 20's rather that racking up huge debt. Paying the bill off in full every month or just carrying a small balance still builds your credit history.

The best way to establish credit is to apply for department store credit cards like Sears, JC Pennys, Kohls, Best Buy or gas stations cards (these type of cards tend to be easy to get) Apply for cards in the stores that you frequent the most. You are bound to get a couple of cards doing this even though you don't have any credit. Then charge something small say $50 worth on the cards and when you get those first bills pay them off on time. Do this for a couple of months then apply for some more cards and do the same thing. Get a copy of your credit report and you will see entries on it for these accounts you have just opened and they will have a code next to them that indicates that you pay these accounts on time. Then apply for a major credit card like Visa or Master card and do the same thing. I think you get the picture now...The object is to create lots of entries on your credit report that show you always pay your bills on time. It doesn't really matter that you are hardly charging anything on these cards. The credit bureau (sp?) will use these accounts in generating an overall credit score for you.

For me if I charge sonething on my credit cards I almost always pay the balance off in full when I get the bill.

Here is the best book I have read on personal finance:
http://deephousepage.com/jpegs/dummies.jpg

I have been giving this book as gifts to family and friends. What I really liked is how they explain things in a manner that easy to understand but they also go deep into the material. There's a lot of warnings in this book concerning things to watch out for.

Good luck -Gerard


Originally posted by GrantB:
Ok I'm about it. I've come to a point in my life recently where I'm happy in a lot of other ways but the green energy department needs the main focus, and it's really becoming an issue. I'm inspired and motivated to start making real money and securing my future, but I need guidance as to where to begin. So where do you start when you're starting from 0?

I've always known to avoid debt but I feel like that's left me at 0, which is better than -$40k like some people I know but still zip. Are you cats really saying that you wouldn't have started out on credit cards when you were in your twenties, or just that you pay them off right away now that you have credit established?

I feel stifled in some ways because I have no credit, but I don't want to owe either. What's a good way to get in without being sucked in? One does need to establish credit, right?

Next, how do I start investing from the 0 level? Obviously I need to save a few bucks first but I'm pretty clueless as to what to do after that. Can you guys recommend a beginners book to get me started?

PS thanks for sharing your stories. I needed to hear from some peeps with positive attitude because especially with the current financial climate here, I'm surrounded by apathetic loosers and I want out!

[imported_Gman]

This was a response I wrote to someone who was frustrated trying to make arrangments to pay their debts off.

On Collection Agencies...

Yes they do like to exploit people in bad situations. Remember these collection agencies work off commission. There job is get you to pay as much as you can. Think of it this way.. if you don't pay them they get nothing so in the end they will take what you will give them. They are not going to turn the money down. Ignore their threats and insults. They are working off a script. Their job is to make you feel like shit so that you will pay them the money rather than that other bill. Send them what you can on each bill whether they say its enough or not. Tune them out and just focus on paying the bill off. In the end you are going to kick yourself for making this harder than it actually was.

Buying a lot of music can also be an addiction but when you get yourself out from under the debt you will find that a lot of money gets freed up to buy things like more records if thats what you want to do.

I hate collection agencies and the people who work for them. I once cosigned on a loan for a friend who did not pay it and I ended up having to pay their debt. So this collection agency came after me to pay the loan back. I refused to pay them and said I would pay the company (University) directly that he owed the money to. This guy from the collection agency went ballistic and said I can't do that. I called the University and said I would like to pay my friends loan off in full and they said sure we will take the money (they would be a fool not to).

peace -Gerard

[princess tamtam]

this is a great discussion. julian, as always, schooling hard on the financial tip.

reading danny b's post on quitting a job and looking at this and thinking how i am using my credit cards to get my little move on is making me somewhat depressed. i am still in my twenties but it looks like i should get it together soon, eh? i want to go back to school so i know i will still be broke becuz of that. and yes, i am still financially illiterate. terribly so.

but i almost have my credit cards from 7 years ago almost paid off. this year i will have it behind me!!!!! yayay that is 10 g's i have gotten rid of. but i am afraid i am gonna rack up more with my move. yes, i am the baby of the family but why do relatives still put bills and credit in MY name?!?!? ghetto material conditions. what to do what to do....

being broke with freedom? or having bank but being on lock down? both? one and the other? wha?

hmmmm....

what i need is a sugar daddy or mama. anyone? haha ahhahahahahha a

[Mack-Williams]

The one thing I don't here mentioned is Life Insurance. Protect your children and your family just in case you may die. Don't leave your family in dept. Some of you all can make your family very financial stable upon your death. Life Insurance settlements are tax free, but the government will get 40% of your Estate upon death. You can replace the money that the Government will take by having a Life Insurance Policy. The company I am working for now, we have over 600 clients, all very wealthy individuals. I am talking people like a well none agent for a big time home run hitter. They have millions of there dollars protected and right now they are not receiving any bills for premium payments. Interesting isn't it. These folks are practically getting Life Insurance for free. We have no black clients. I have been trying to get some wealthy Black individuals to look into it, but they feel like it isn't any need.

[ May 17, 2002, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Mack-Williams ]

[The Buddy Love Show]

Julian

to follow up on Mack - Williams. What is your position on Whole life vs Term plans. I have a whole life policy and am considering upping the coverage to a half million. I like the fact that the policies build equity and its equity balance vs premuium payments after 10 years.
Your thoughts

thanks in advance

[Tristan]

I just want to say that this is most likely THE best thread I have ever read on a message board (and I've read a quite a few). good lookin out! Seriously, more people need to understand that if you take simple steps to secure your personal finances, you enrich your whole outlook on life!

well done people... I love hearing the p o s i t i v e !!!! :D

'He who fails to plan, plans to fail'

easy

[ May 17, 2002, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: Tristan ]

[imported_mhd]

Yo Mack, check your e-mail

[julian_kelly]

Mack is right about being properly insured

I like whole life as well... you pay consistent premiums and build up equity. Whole like is the same concept of buying a home. Term is the same concept of renting a home. Equity buildup in whole... no equity buildup on term.

People should be properly insured, but insurnace can be confusing (and it still is to me) because there are literally HUNDREDS of insurance products that can cover any scenario. Nevertheless consult with at least three insurance agents to find out what product is best your you and your family

Most people should also realize that in addition insurance protection (life/health) a family/person should also have three to six months of cash set aside in case of emergencies. If you get laid off or have and emergency, always have money in the bank.

julian kelly


Originally posted by MAGUS:
Julian

to follow up on Mack - Williams. What is your position on Whole life vs Term plans. I have a whole life policy and am considering upping the coverage to a half million. I like the fact that the policies build equity and its equity balance vs premuium payments after 10 years.
Your thoughts

thanks in advance

[julian_kelly]

Tam Tam, dont worry about credit card debt. Ive built up and paid off credit card debt over $15,000 two times in my life. I just made some bad decisions. If you worry about it, it can really get you down. I was thankful for caller id, cause when them suckers called I didnt answer the phone. Nevertheless, dont worry about it youll knock it out.

Both times, I basically did what gman outlined above -- called the creditors, told them that I owed others told them how I was gonna pay "on MY terms." ... of all the debts I had, I informed them that I would only pay anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 (because most of the balance was interest accrued.) Credit card companies will take settlements less that the entire amount because they are happy to at least get some money.

Dont feel bad because EVERYBODY has credit card debt or has acquired it sometime in their life lol!! My creidt is jacked up, but it hasnt stopped me nor do I worry about it because I know how the game is played.

I know a guy who is a millionaire... his credit is Jacked up!!! When he was poor, he went to rent a mercuy car less than $10,000 and had to negotiate with the finance company for two days to get a loan. After he became wealthy, he was able to call the mercedes dealership from home, process the loan application OVER the phone (still with his bad credit) and have the car he wanted delivered TO HIS HOUSE in less than 5 hours.

I read about a lady who I think started the net site Loan.com that gave folk loans on mortgages and cars. She had a successful IPO and was worth millions. The lady proclaimed in an interview, and I paraphrase "My credit is terrible like everyone else...if I had to apply for a loan on my own website I WOULD NOT QUALIFY" but because she has money, in her case bad credit doesnt matter.

I heard of another guy who had $250,000 in debt...filed bankruptcy and couldnt get a loan to save his life. He built a business and was worth a few hundred thousand dollars. He also was friends with a mortgage broker. The broker got him a loan on a home despite his bad credit

Moral of the story 1. Make money and many rules dont apply to you. 2. Build relationships with important people and you can get things you otherwise wouldnt have.

Banks, lending institutions and people throw away all their rules when the deal with people who have wealth

julian kelly


Originally posted by princess tamtam:
this is a great discussion. julian, as always, schooling hard on the financial tip.

reading danny b's post on quitting a job and looking at this and thinking how i am using my credit cards to get my little move on is making me somewhat depressed. i am still in my twenties but it looks like i should get it together soon, eh? i want to go back to school so i know i will still be broke becuz of that. and yes, i am still financially illiterate. terribly so.

but i almost have my credit cards from 7 years ago almost paid off. this year i will have it behind me!!!!! yayay that is 10 g's i have gotten rid of. but i am afraid i am gonna rack up more with my move. yes, i am the baby of the family but why do relatives still put bills and credit in MY name?!?!? ghetto material conditions. what to do what to do....

being broke with freedom? or having bank but being on lock down? both? one and the other? wha?

hmmmm....

what i need is a sugar daddy or mama. anyone? haha ahhahahahahha a

[ May 17, 2002, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: julian_kelly ]

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by princess tamtam:
....but i almost have my credit cards from 7 years ago almost paid off. this year i will have it behind me!!!!! yayay that is 10 g's i have gotten rid of. but i am afraid i am gonna rack up more with my move. yes, i am the baby of the family but why do relatives still put bills and credit in MY name?!?!? ghetto material conditions. what to do what to do....

being broke with freedom? or having bank but being on lock down? both? one and the other? wha?

hmmmm....

what i need is a sugar daddy or mama. anyone? haha ahhahahahahha aThere you go girl graemlins/cheering.gif You are doing good paying off a lot of those credit card debts in your 20's. I would not worry about the impending debt from the move because you have established the good habit of paying the cards off rather than ignoring it and letting it grow by only paying the minimum. We had problems similar to what you experienced with your family when we moved Linda's mother ( graemlins/mad.gif I had no choice)up here. She had all these delinquent bills in her name that actually belonged to her other kids. I had lots of fun with those companies trying to get those bills discharged. Some we ended up just having to pay.

To the question:

"being broke with freedom? or having bank but being on lock down? both? one and the other? wha?"

To me the object of working or starting your own business is to gather up the financial resoures to be free to do what you want and have some of the things that I desire. Working is a means to an end not the end itself. So I must sacrifice some of my freedom to do this. I guess my answer is both. Hopefully I can sacrifice some of my freedom working on something I enjoy in order to get these financial resources. That would be perfect.

Concerning getting a sugar mama or sugar daddy check out www.sugarmama.com (http://www.sugarmama.com) or www.sugardaddy.com (http://www.sugardaddy.com) for assistance.

-G

[ May 18, 2002, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: Gman ]

[Thomas Supstairs]

ask me this question again in about ..... 8 years .
I'm glad I still don't have to worry about this shit tongue.gif

[princess tamtam]

mua! i love you guys. thanks gman and julian for the assurance and other folks stories.

yes, i was tripping out over the credit that i am going to be using for this move even though i am almost done paying off a lump of other credit over the past few years! it's not that much when i think about it but i just don't want to repeat what i did in the past.

i know that i will pay it back and it is really teaching me to pay it on time and more than the minimum. when i do get hella cash i want to go ahead and pay it all off so i will have it behind me this time around too.

also, i might add...

all the college heads out there, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be careful when the credit represenatives come to your campus and table. they throw these credit cards at you with the promotional tee-shirts and mugs and candy. they sign you up and you think you have all the money in the world to spend and pay later like it was a student loan. that is how they got me cuz i didn't know any better. BE CAREFUL.

btw, gman, what did you do about your defaulted student loans? i consolidated my ones from undergrad and now i am about to consolidate them with the grad ones. word up, wild, i am shaking my head and asking WHY i took out them loans!?!?! there is just too much hassle in dealing with two agencies with different interest rates. sallie mae and direct loans knows my voice by heart cuz i will be crying if i ever get defaulted on them mugs!

[princess tamtam]

btw, julian, are you a some kind of financial consultant? if not, you should think about being one... tongue.gif

[imported_Gman]

My students loans went into collection. In the end I paid the principle and accued interest but not all of the fees that the collection agencies were trying to tag on. I paid the defaulted loans off one by one. Princess, thats a great idea to consolidate them all into one.

-G


Originally posted by princess tamtam:
...btw, gman, what did you do about your defaulted student loans? i consolidated my ones from undergrad and now i am about to consolidate them with the grad ones.

[imported_Gman]

Heads should know whats on their credit reports. Once you get a copy of your report work on clearing any bad stuff up. Don't wait until you are applying for a loan be proactive.

The big three credit reporting agencies are Equifax,TransUnion and Experian. You can now order a report online if you like or have it sent to you.

https://www.econsumer.equifax.com/webapp/ConsumerProducts/pgConsumerProducts?^start=&orderSource=EHS&PP=P1

http://www.transunion.com/Personal/OrderCreditReport.asp

http://www.experian.com/consumer/index.html

Here's an example credit report.

http://deephousepage.com/jpegs/samplecredit.jpg

Under the Historical Status column they track any late payment you have ever made in your life so always try to make your payments on time. Late payments affect your overall credit score.

-G

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Originally posted by Gman:
Heads should know whats on their credit reports. Once you get a copy of your report work on clearing any bad stuff up. Don't wait until you are applying for a loan be proactive.

The big three credit reporting agencies are Equifax,TransUnion and Experian. You can now order a report online if you like or have it sent to you.

https://www.econsumer.equifax.com/webapp/ConsumerProducts/pgConsumer Products?^start=&orderSource=EHS&PP=P1 (https://www.econsumer.equifax.com/webapp/ConsumerProducts/pgConsumerProducts?^start=&orderSource=EHS&PP=P1)

http://www.transunion.com/Personal/OrderCreditReport.asp

http://www.experian.com/consumer/index.html

Here's an example credit report.

http://deephousepage.com/jpegs/samplecredit.jpg

Under the Historical Status column they track any late payment you have ever made in your life so always try to make your payments on time. Late payments affect your overall credit score.

-GAnd get rid of your credit cards. Have 1 major and that's it. Ladies get rid of those Macys, Sears Express, Victoria Secret, etc. The more available credit you have, the worse even if you never use them.

[shawn]

graemlins/1luvu.gif
Just can't stop reading this damn thread. I swear I check it EVERYDAY. Keep it coming.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

peace~

[Mah'chew]

Originally posted by DJ Timmy Richardson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
Heads should know whats on their credit reports. Once you get a copy of your report work on clearing any bad stuff up. Don't wait until you are applying for a loan be proactive.

The big three credit reporting agencies are Equifax,TransUnion and Experian. You can now order a report online if you like or have it sent to you.

https://www.econsumer.equifax.com/webapp/ConsumerProducts/pgConsumer Products?^start=&orderSource=EHS&PP=P1 (https://www.econsumer.equifax.com/webapp/ConsumerProducts/pgConsumerProducts?^start=&orderSource=EHS&PP=P1)

http://www.transunion.com/Personal/OrderCreditReport.asp

http://www.experian.com/consumer/index.html

Here's an example credit report.

http://deephousepage.com/jpegs/samplecredit.jpg

Under the Historical Status column they track any late payment you have ever made in your life so always try to make your payments on time. Late payments affect your overall credit score.

-GAnd get rid of your credit cards. Have 1 major and that's it. Ladies get rid of those Macys, Sears Express, Victoria Secret, etc. The more available credit you have, the worse even if you never use them.</font>[/QUOTE]This is an example of really good credit, I used to work for Exeprian in the UK a long time ago. The three sets of 'zeros' are what's most important to most people, they are payments made over time. Zero is good, payments paid on time, 1's mean you've paid something late (means one month as well - even if you were a day late..), 2's are two months arrears and 3's well you could have someone knoking at your door.

It's interesting to get one of these and clean it, I can tell you that credit card companies are the worst at giving information to credit agencies, you could be paying on time, everytime and their lazy asses pass on the wrong information and get you bad credit with no fault of your own. You could be paying Sears on time and they are giving you 1's and 2's and I don't mean a set of turntables !!!

Get one of these, it's information about you and is important..

Thanks for sharing this GMan, you must have every Gold Card in the US cluttering up your mail with their junk :eek:

[imported_Gman]

There was a lot of inaccurate information on my credit report that I had to clean up. You send the credit agency a letter with the entry on the report that you are challenging as being inaccurate. The law (Credit Reporting Act) says they have 30 days (I believe) to verify the information or remove it from your report :D

Bankruptcies stay on your credit report for 10 years

Judgements and other legal action stay on there for 7 years

Any other negative credit information stays for only seven years.

After that they must be removed by law. If you find something thats still on your report after the expiration time then send them a very nice letter quoting the law. I will post the law in the next thread. This law protects you when it comes to credit agencies. When you have time peeps should read it.

Peace -Gerard

[imported_Gman]

The Fair Credit Reporting Act (Credit Reporting Agencies must abide by this law). This law protects you from bad credit reporting practices.

*Note this is a PDF document so you need the free Adobe Acrobat Reader (www.adobe.com) to view it.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcrajan2002.pdf

[ May 19, 2002, 06:08 AM: Message edited by: Gman ]

[imported_Gman]

NATIONS BIG THREE CONSUMER REPORTING AGENCIES AGREE TO PAY 2.5 MILLION IN SETTLEMENT

Bastards...

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/01/busysignal.htm

[julian_kelly]

A few thoughts on this economy deal:

1. Everybody now is scared sick about the stock market...I'm not...I aint even faded about it. I know people who have been making a killing in the market the past two years...and its because of knowledge. The key to battling anything you arent familiar with is education.

People dont realize that you can make money in the market if it goes up or down. You can short the market...you can trade options...you can buy or sell calls/puts...you can write covered calls...you can buy and sell rolling stock. You can set stop limits orders on your stock if it starts to go down; therefore it is sold automatically if it declines to a price you dont like.

You can use the market for short term or long term money making. The buy and hold strategy is NOT the only stock market strategy.

People dont know about alternative stock market strategies because they dont take the initiative to learn more...all they do is invest blindly in a 401-k or buy mutual funds withought knowing what the fund is comprised of. READ !!! READ !!! READ!! ask questions... take seminars on financial management....but never sit there and HOPE to make money. Know what you are investing in. Take your money by the horns and learn how to make it work! How smart is it to put your money in something and hope?? Money and WISH dont belong in the same sentence. The more you know, the more money you will make.

2. Have different streams of income

Why would someone invest all of their money in one vehicle?? Thats not smart....no lets be real... thats DUMB !! Put all your eggs in one basket, the basket falls..no more eggs. Never have less than three strong sources of income (and that is being conservative) because bad things do and will happen. The stock market goes down, real estate markets drop...any business sector has ups and downs...any business a person owns has ups and downs. The key is to have more than one stream of income, so that when one is stale, the others compensate.

I feel extremely sorry for people who are near retirement age who have lost their entire savings because of recent lulls in the market. But consider this:

"Why would you put all of your eggs in one basket?"

People who have lost nest eggs near retirement age should have considered converting some of their nest egg into bonds, money markets or even insurance. I hear folk screaming now "But I didnt know !!"

Well:

Dont play a game if you dont know the rules.

Dont play the game if you arent willing to learn the rules.

Dont play the game if you arent willing to become better at the game.

Dont play the game if you dont know the risks.

Dont play the game lightly.

Dont play the game if you dont have an original plan AND a backup plan.

Dont play the game with hope...have a plan

And if youre in the game, be agressive in teh game... play the game.. dont sit on the sideline

Would you play professional football in a suit, wingtips and no helmet?

Nope...you would learn the rules of the game, get some equipment, practice, study the game, find a mentor/coach in the game, assemble a team of people to help you be successful in the game, put on your pads and THEN play!!

You learn the risks of football. You learn that if you play this game you could get a concussion...break your leg...be parylzed for life. You learn the risks. But there are also rewards... the joy of the game... the notoriety... money...fame

You get a backup plan buy gettin insurance in case you get injured. You even learn which position/techniqe/strategy you can be best at... wide reciever, quarterback...defense. You plan for life after football, because you know it will come to an end abrubtly or a long time from now.

After you play for a while, sometimes even come to the conclusion that football isnt for you... heck... there are other sports I can play !!!

If you dont know the rules of football and step on the field, you a@@ will get killed !!!

So why would you put your money in something without knowing about it?

Moral of the story: Know what you are getting into and learn to accept the rewards/negative consequences.

3. Learn to have money making vehicles you can control more easily.

Part of the reason why I'm not faded by this market is because I have additional streams of income I control. I have a marketing company; I control that income. I invest in real estate... I control that. The stock market will always have some grey area, but I know my business like the back of my hand... I always know I can make money in them.

I know this cat who is worth several hundren thousand.... super paid because he has a lawn service. This guy is scared to death of the market.. he always tells me "That stock market is funny money!!! I need something secure!!!" The guy has never touched the market, but he knows that he can always cut a blade of grass and get paid. He leverages his time by having emplyees. He's diversified his lawn cuttin earnings buy buying bonds and insurance, so if he cant physically cut his grass he is straight. This market crash has not affected him at all !!!!! It doesnt mean ANYTHING to him.

And dont think your job is control... it aint... you dont own it... you can get fired tomorrow ... your company owner is just lettin you 'borrow' his/her job.

Read the list below to jar your memory on how you can learn to control your money. If you dont feel comfortable investing in the market, dont do it!! Nobody said that you HAVE to invest in the stock market. Do something you like doing and learn to make money at it.

wake up people
learn...read!! ask questions

more later
julian kelly


Originally posted by julian_kelly:
Discussion is going good… keep the comments coming

Now lets add another twist to it. Consider this question:

What are you doing to make immediate income NOW??? Not 30 years from now at retirement, but NOW!!

It is imperative to plan for the future; in addition is equally imperative to make money NOW.

Most people need money NOW…cashflow now…financial relief now. Why wait ? If you have more money now, you can invest it and have more money later.

Don’t let your IRA or 401-k be your only vehicle for making loot. You cant touch it now so what good does it do you in the short term. You are in a financial crisis NOW so plan accordingly

Some thoughts:

1. I know of this fifteen year old kid who started a lawn cutting service with his little buddy. They both borrowed the family lawnmower (2 total) and started cutting lawns in the neighborhood. Part time these kids pull in around $1,000 a month

2. I know of a lady who recently had a daughter and refused to let other people raise her kids, so she chose to stay at home. She started looking for ways to make extra cash and ended up finding a cheap recipe for soap. She sells her soap to her friends and family and pulls in from $500-800 a month.

3. I met a guy who loves to bake. He started baking pies and selling them to his friends and church members simply to make extra cash. Seven years later, he has his pies in convenience stores across the city

4. What if you write and want to get published?? Work your way in thru the backdoor. Market yourself to the writing community as and editor. Independently edit other folks work for a reasonable fee. In turn you help other writers shape their vision, make some extra cash and build valuable relationships. You build up your resume and sharpen your craft. Eventually someone will hear about you. Build your network large enough and the breaks will come.

5. I heard of a guy who details/washes cars at a family owned gas station. It’s a win/win situation. His customers get a carwash and end up getting gas at the gas station. They split the water bill/supplied…He gets paid, the gas station owner gets paid

6. I know a kid who is extremely responsible in karate… he has a black belt. I know business… he knows karate… we are thinking about renting out a small spot and doing karate lessons on the weekend. I market his business..he does karate… we both get paid.

7. Think of your skills and who needs your skills… start doing part-time work doing helping others with your skills.

8. Learn sales… learn how to sell yourself….if you can talk a good game you can get just about anything you want in this world

9. Partner with rich people. What skills do you have that can make someone rich, richer. They front money, you come with the idea and expertise. Maybe you want to get into real estate, but don’t have extra money at the time. Take around three months and research real estate in your spare time… write a plan on what areas are hot and an efficient strategy on how to buy and sell. Go to a person with money and show them how you can help THEM make money. Do a good deal for them and you have their attention for life. Rich people like easy money, but NEVER go to a rich person without a plan.

10. Take real estate courses at night or on the weekend. You DO NOT have to have a real estate liscense to invest in real estate.

11. Pay a few hundred dollars and become an insurance broker on a part-time basis… you can make a grand a week part time in insurance without blinking

12. Figure our what you are willing to give up. Cut back on entertainment (clubbing, records, clothes, liquor, cigarettes, eating out) for a while. Save that cash and put it into something that will make you money NOW. Get your freedom back and then you can club and buy records all you want.

13. Buy books about financial literacy… again… I often tell how much money a person makes by the books they buy. Poor people have big TVs and entertainment systems. Rich folk have libraries.

14. Realize that you wont make serious money by simply working a job… it doesn’t happen.

15. Do the opposite of what the masses do.

16. Be in it for the long term. Success doesn’t happen immediately and it aint easy. Learn to be comfortable in discomfort.

17. Start SMALL but dream BIG. So what if you only make an extra $100 or so. Thats more that what you had before. Sharpen your skills and the money you make in the short turn will go from hundreds to thousands. The point is the START doing something

18. Learn to LOVE failure. Failure is essential to growth. I get better and stronger each time I fail. I love failure. The more times I fail the more money I make. If you don’t fail, you remain where you are. So at least fail/fall forward and progress. Make sense?

19. Don’t quit

20-100. It aint easy… don’t quit

Learn to make money NOW.. not later, but NOW. An extra $200, $500, $1,000, $5,000 made within a week to 6 months can really help most people. Learn to make $1,000 NOW– invest $500 long term and plop the other $500 on a bill, give it to someone who needs it or buy an asset that will make you more money

Make more loot and you can buy all the records you want OR keep your current mindset/practices and deal with lack for the rest of your life on earth.

more stuff later

julian kelly

[DJCA]

I MUST SAY I'VE TAKEN THE FIRST STEP TO IMPROVING MY FINANCIAL CONDITION. 911-HAD A TERRIBLE EFFECT ON MY JOB STATUS, AND I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR WORK FOR ALMOST A YEAR, AS OF JULY 15,2002 I'M GAINFULLY EMPLOYED. NOW AFTER I GET CAUGHT UP ON MY BILLS, I'LL START WEIGHING MY OPTIONS. graemlins/hippy.gif

[GrantB]

Yo Julian,

I'm glad you brought this discussion back up to the top. I want to thank you and the other people who contributed to this thread for helping motivate me to change my financial situation. Some of the things you said made me realize that making money is simply a matter of attitude and a way of thinking about life. There's infinite possibilities to make money out there but you have to actively seek them out. Now I'm walking around thinking about what are my best opprotunities to make money instead of buggin about how I don't have enough.

I don't really have an appreciable amount of capital to invest yet but I've taken all sorts of free or inexpensive little steps get the ball rolling. I got my banking straight, started saving, attended a great first time homebuyers seminar, cut my hair and started looking more professional, and most important, I decided to finally get out of my underpaying job. It's a good thing too because I just found out this week that my looser company is laying me off because they can't even afford my half-ass salary any more. The job market for tech people in Seattle is the worst it's ever been right now but I'm glad to have got an early start in the hunt with a positive attitude. When I get a new job that makes scale for what I do, I'll be in really good shape to start investing and buy real estate instead of frittering it away like I did the last time I had a good job.

Now when I talk to my family and friends I talk to them about what they're doing to make money. I've learned all kinds of stuff this way and strangely enough improved my relationships with some of them. Money is really important to most folks and they realize you really care about them when you have these sorts of conversations. It doesn't need to be a dirty subject like a lot of people think if you come with a positive and constructive attitude.

Anyway you're right about the attitude toward making money being the first thing most folks have to change. Even though I'm not in the money yet, just thinking about it differently has improved my outlook on life and got me going in the right direction.

Oh and one more thing: this is a great example of why some of us like to talk about non house (music) related subjects on this board.

[ July 24, 2002, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: GrantB ]

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by Gman:
There was a lot of inaccurate information on my credit report that I had to clean up. You send the credit agency a letter with the entry on the report that you are challenging as being inaccurate. The law (Credit Reporting Act) says they have 30 days (I believe) to verify the information or remove it from your report :D

Bankruptcies stay on your credit report for 10 years

Judgements and other legal action stay on there for 7 years

Any other negative credit information stays for only seven years.

After that they must be removed by law. If you find something thats still on your report after the expiration time then send them a very nice letter quoting the law. I will post the law in the next thread. This law protects you when it comes to credit agencies. When you have time peeps should read it.

Peace -GerardVery good point G-. I learned from a credit repair firm that credit agencies profit from the negative info on your credit report and they will not remove it just because it's time period is up. You really have to stay on them to remove false or outdated info. I filed an indemnification against every negative item on my credit report, which means that the credit agencies either have to prove the negative info or remove it. I got about 5 items removed from my report this way. My credit then was good enough for me to buy a new Jeep Cherokee. Keep your credit clean, people.
As far as my improving my financial condition, I have a mutual fund with the Peachtree Aggressive Growth Fund that earns about 16% interest annually. I'm looking for property next.
MARBLL

[mhd]

Very interesting about the indemnification, Marbill, I have used them in other contexts, can you give us more details.

Also, any of you Chicago cats ever use Ariel Capital Management?, peace, mark

[mhd]

Another thought, Julian, could you start another
thread this format is driving me crazy

[bitonti]

How does one get a copy of their credit report?

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by bitonti:
How does one get a copy of their credit report?The big three credit reporting agencies are Equifax,TransUnion and Experian. You can now order a report online if you like or have it sent to you.

https://www.econsumer.equifax.com/webapp/ConsumerProducts/pgConsumer Products?^start=&orderSource=EHS&PP=P1 (https://www.econsumer.equifax.com/webapp/ConsumerProducts/pgConsumerProducts?^start=&orderSource=EHS&PP=P1)

http://www.transunion.com/Personal/OrderCreditReport.asp

http://www.experian.com/consumer/index.html

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by Gman:
Plan:
Maxmized 403B thru my Job, Automatic additions to Mutual Funds outside of retirement, 4 months emergency fund, Home, except for my mortgage I have zero debt. I refinanced recently from 7.25 to 6.35 and went from a 20 Year to 15 year home loan. We send in an extra principle payment every month in order to pay down the mortage faster. I need to open a ROTH IRA.

One key point in investing is to have your investments automatically deducted from your check or bank account so that you don't have to think about them. Thought I would bring this excellent post back to the top.

Updated financial plan:

1) Linda and I have maximized our contributions to our 403(b) plans at work. The 403(b) plans are made up of various stock funds in Fidelity and Troweprice
2) We increased our emergency fund up to 8 months of expenses.
3) Other than mortgage we are debt free
4) Refinanced mortgage again recently from 6.375 to 5.375 (15 years).
5) Making an additional $300 principle payment every month to pay off mortgage in about 9.5 years
6) I have the paperwork to open a Roth IRA. Gotta get on this.
7) Rental property ?? - Slowly looking into this

[JoeB]

thank you for bumping this, Gman.

here is my dilemma. i am thinking about getting a loan to consolidate my credit card debt. i have about 4000 dollars. should i do it or just keep going at it? i've dropped a few grand from the total but i want to get rid of it once and for all.

thanks for hearing me out and any possible feedback on this.

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by JoeB:
thank you for bumping this, Gman.

here is my dilemma. i am thinking about getting a loan to consolidate my credit card debt. i have about 4000 dollars. should i do it or just keep going at it? i've dropped a few grand from the total but i want to get rid of it once and for all.

thanks for hearing me out and any possible feedback on this. If you are at the point where you are not going to run the credit cards up again once they have been cleared off by the consolidation loan then it is a good idea assuming you can get a substantially lower interest rate.

To me the main purpose of the consolidation loan is to bring all your debts under one payment and pay a LOWER interest rate. Thereby saving on the amount of interest you have to pay over the life of the loan. Be careful not to extend the loan out longer than you would have been paying if you just paid the cards off straight.

This is what I would do if I had that debt now:

Apply for a credit card with a much lower interest rate (4.5% - 8%) than what you are currently paying on any of the other cards. Move the balances of all the cards over to the new lower interest rate card. If one of the cards that you currently have has a low interest rate then move all the balances over to that one.

Failing that apply for a consolidation loan if it is lower than your lowest credit card rate.

If you are going to just continue paying the individual cards then rank them in terms of highest interest rate first. Make the biggest payment to the card with the highest interest rate and just pay the minimum on the other cards. Once the card with the highest interest rate is paid off then shift those payments to the next highest card, and so on and so on. This is what I did back in the early 90's to pay off my credit card debt off.

Hope this helps,

-G

[JoeB]

Originally posted by Gman:
Hope this helps,

-G it did.

thanks, Gman.

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by JoeB:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
Hope this helps,

-G it did.

thanks, Gman. </font>[/QUOTE]Curious what are the current rates you are paying on your credit cards ?

Also check www.bankrate.com (http://www.bankrate.com) for credit cards with lower rates. Heres a list:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/cc_ratehome.asp?state=US&cc_online=0&hAboutType=C&product=cc&prodtype=cc&web=brm&R1=13&card_type=Personal&card_class=Standard&max_recs=10

-G

[ May 11, 2003, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Gman ]

[Kenrick _]

thanks for bringong this back up g. i was not on the board unitl november of last year so i missed this thread. i just read the whole thing...

good advice here

thank you,

me

[music]

saving 1,-----.00 a month.

[julian_kelly]

One interesting point that most people dont know about credit cards is that you can DEMAND that the credit card comapany reducet your interest rate. More times then naught, they will do it.

I learned this from a friend:

1. Call the credit card company customer service deptartment and say "Hello, how are you, Im x and my interest rate us too high, I need you to reduce it to X% please" (State whatever interest rate you want them to lower it to....always start with a low rate)

2. The customer service person will probably decline....theyve been trained to do it. Ask the rep, "May I have your name please?" Get their name and say "May I speak to your supervisor please." The rep will attempt to say that they cant do anything to help you, but DEMAND that you speak to their supervisor. They HAVE to let you speak to a supervisor

3. Speak to the supervisor and say, I talked to 'x' (the first person you talked to) about reducing my interest rate, and they couldnt help me. Im extremely disappointed. Ive looked at several cards with lower rates and im considering canceling my card. I need to have my interest rate lowered,

At this stage, you may have to mention how long youve had the card, you being loyal, the amount of $ youve made the company, etc. If this supervisor balks, repeat the process again..get name...ask for their supervisor, etc.

I did this process with two credit cards, I reduced one from 20% to 12% ... another from 18% to around 13%. I could have gotten them lower but I had checkered payment histories on both cards. If you have a good payment history, you can get a single digit rate.

Each time I called, I had to speak to three people. Both times, I only had to do the process once. You may have to speak to several people to get what you want..keep going up the chain. You may have to do the process more than once, but be consistent with it. Consistentely watch your rate and call whenever it goes up and demand that they reduce it.

peace
julian kelly



Originally posted by JoeB:
thank you for bumping this, Gman.

here is my dilemma. i am thinking about getting a loan to consolidate my credit card debt. i have about 4000 dollars. should i do it or just keep going at it? i've dropped a few grand from the total but i want to get rid of it once and for all.

thanks for hearing me out and any possible feedback on this.

[imported_Gman]

DeepHousePage approved ;)

Excellent free financial advice

The Suze Orman Show click here to listen (http://deephousepage.com/suzeorman1.ram)

[P-Flipp]

Originally posted by Gman:
Plan:
Maxmized 403B thru my Job, Automatic additions to Mutual Funds outside of retirement, 4 months emergency fund, Home, except for my mortgage I have zero debt. I refinanced recently from 7.25 to 6.35 and went from a 20 Year to 15 year home loan. We send in an extra principle payment every month in order to pay down the mortage faster. I need to open a ROTH IRA.

One key point in investing is to have your investments automatically deducted from your check or bank account so that you don't have to think about them. Wow!GMan youv'e given me something to shoot for!Congrats!

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by P-Flipp:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
Plan:
Maxmized 403B thru my Job, Automatic additions to Mutual Funds outside of retirement, 4 months emergency fund, Home, except for my mortgage I have zero debt. I refinanced recently from 7.25 to 6.35 and went from a 20 Year to 15 year home loan. We send in an extra principle payment every month in order to pay down the mortage faster. I need to open a ROTH IRA.

One key point in investing is to have your investments automatically deducted from your check or bank account so that you don't have to think about them. Wow!GMan youv'e given me something to shoot for!Congrats! </font>[/QUOTE]Best financial book I ever read was Personal Finance for Dummies http://deephousepage.com/smilies/blush.gif

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by JoeB:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
Hope this helps,

-G it did.

thanks, Gman. </font>[/QUOTE]What did you decide to do ?

[imported_Gman]

^

[imported_Gman]

^