What happened to New Jersey’s house scene? [Archive]

jihad muhammad

12-06-2003, 04:39 PM

man that article was totally untrue. while i will say that at one time the jersey scene went into a decline it has emerged with full force.
i myself started a party called the movement ( not to be confused with tamir's movement party ) in 2001. that party was an extension of another party that i was doing with naeem johnson at club eclipse. at the time that i started doing the club movement parties shelter was just about to close. when the 9/11 tragedy happened shelter was not able to open up to do the last party b/c it was in the vicinity of the world trade center. that left a void in saturday night parties in new york and especially in jersey where there wasnt a saturday night party in existence.
during my 1 1/2 year run at the metro galaxy ( where club movement was held ) we were very fortunate to have some of our brothers and sisters from ny cross the water on a regular ( and we all know that new yorkers dont usually cross the border ). clubmovement featured some of our most celebrated dance artist and has made an international impact with myself having the pleasure of traveling to japan twice to represent the party and the jersey scene. i will go on record by saying it was the start of the jersey dance revolution. one that was "televised" but missed by that reporter of false info on bounce fm.

you have cafe euphoria on monday nights in the heart of downtown newark. they also have made an impact on the dance scene by featuring local and international dj talents and artist. that was the only jam that got folks to come out on a monday night. another jam that new yorkers crossed the water for. remember i said it was on a monday night.

you had g-spot with omar abdallah. you have familysoul with tamir, tee mallory and dave tobon, you have deliverance with dj earon, 43rd st. cafe with dj stacey mallory, the arena with jersey legend naeem johnson and naeem does a monthly jam on bloomfield ave in newark.

what about the blackbox w/ naeem, underground dreams w/ tamir, mirage w/ myself, camacho and naeem, the spot with nyself, kris flowers, andrew hogan and erroll claxton.

i truly encourage those who read this thread that are from jersey to tell your story so that the falsehood be laid to rest. share your history b/c folks really think that jersey's dance scene stopped when tony left zanzibar.

Ronnie Ron

12-06-2003, 04:57 PM

In my opinion,

This article is shamefull and does not represent any of the good people in Jersey that are trying to make it happen in the dance/House/club music scene... its just shameful....

To all of the people i have met and continue to see and comunicate with that are from the jersey area keep on doing your thing and keep making it happen. Articles like this will not stop the music from getting to the people

God bless you all.

R-R

liL Ray

12-06-2003, 07:09 PM

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[ December 08, 2003, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

d.j. earon

12-06-2003, 08:04 PM

to mr./ms. firefly...i'm sorry to dissappoint you but the scene here in jersey is doing just fine...and has been for a while now...your info is not only full of fallacies but really doesn't depict the scene that i grew up in here in newark...jersey and most notably newark was full of parties and places to go and hear this music we call house...and today there are parties that are going strong that offer the people a chance to experience this music...along with my monthly "Deliverance" there is, "43rd st.Cafe", "Family Soul" ,"Arena","ThinkSoul"... to name a few...and let's not forget "The Movement" and "G-Spot", which were two very successful parties right here in downtown newark...so you see the jersey scene is maintaining itself...but thanks just the same for the free press...to all the cats out here in "jerzee" doin' your thing...keep doin' the damn thing!...and firefly , for doing such groundbreaking journalism ,i'm quite sure you would want your notoriety...so don't hide behind a screen name let us know who you are ...peace

[ December 06, 2003, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: d.j. earon ]

JMNYC

12-06-2003, 08:13 PM

I have to look at this article the same way I look at all the comments about how NYC's scene is "dead" graemlins/jpshakehead.gif having gone back to true "underground" status, both are just a bit harder to find, especially if you're looking in the same old, tired places.

Now as for the comment on websites and their bad spelling - I can't front, that was funny and true.

Jerzee, keep doin yo thang.

liL Ray

12-06-2003, 08:22 PM

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[ December 08, 2003, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

Jamie 3:26

12-06-2003, 08:32 PM

That was shameful.Yeah,some of that shit is true...in all circles...the backstabbing and such,but damn,that was pure hate.

I have peeps out in Jerzee still holdin' it down.I have peeps in NYC puttin' it down.I know Ray has had issues with cats out there,but ya'll need to get together and find this cat out.

I would have respected his/her opinion much more if there was a real name attached.

Bounce FM has reached a new low.Drama may be good for some situations,but to focus on negativity,and the past does not look good.There's mad shit goin on out there now.Things will NEVER be like they were yesteryear.That's in Jerzee,NYC,Chicago and so forth.

I still respect folks who are keeping this dying culture,my bad Jon... ;) alive.Whether I may get along with them or may not even know them.At least they are trying to accomplish something.

I will make it a point NOT to go to that website again.

JMNYC

12-06-2003, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JMNYC:

Now as for the comment on websites and their bad spelling - I can't front, that was funny and true.

Even though it may have been true, I thought that was being harsh and attempted to single out a certain individual....instead of tearing down, do like I did and drop the individual a note pointing out the error....who are the haters now??.... [/QUOTE]oh, it was definitely harsh, but I did notice it on a few sites - then again, I notice the same problem on sites all over the world (as a semanticist and web guy, it's a particular pet peeve of mine). Party hearty tonite Ray... hope to see you soon.

JMNYC

12-06-2003, 08:38 PM

there's definitely a taste of sensationalism here... but that gets attention. Let's not front: what's the ratio of raves vs. rants and how many replies do they each get? The reality is that if we're sitting here posting about it and reading it, it has served well as an attention getter. 'Nuff said on that one - I don't want to be responsible for disseminating all this negativity any further.

liL Ray

12-06-2003, 08:48 PM

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[ December 08, 2003, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

Sweetiwluv

12-06-2003, 09:13 PM

Lil Ray I got your back! graemlins/remybussi.gif

The interesting thing to me is this. The more I become involved in the industry and no longer just a dancer people become exposed for what they are and or who they are!

After the decline of Club Zanzibar - us heads seemed to always find a spot
( Mirage was still going strong, Sterlings right there after, Black Box, G-Spot, The occasional Bogies for a birthday party, Underground Dreams, Club Movement, ThinkSoul, 43rd. Street Café, and now my co-promoted and produced party “DELIVERANCE!”) to lay down some baby powder and complain about our aching knees the next day.

There are options – there have always been options! Seek and ye shall find! But if you continue to stay stagnant and only report (for a lack of a better term for what he/she did) what you really don’t know, what you heard or what you presume to know this is the result. Unwarranted, unsolicited, and opinionated editorials.

We have to continue to do what we are doing to combat the sophistry that is written about us Jerzee heads. Lets keep hope alive to quote ole Jesse!

Stay strong! ;)

[ December 06, 2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Sweetiwluv ]

JMJ

12-06-2003, 09:26 PM

After reading this, and thinking back to the "anonymous" hatred directed by another "reporter" at Ray's Jamboree a few months ago, why would any house DJ or artist agree to be interviewed for publication on the website in question?? BOYSCOTT......JMJ

liL Ray

12-06-2003, 09:37 PM

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[ December 08, 2003, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

DJ BARRY B

12-06-2003, 10:05 PM

IN RESPONSE TO THE POST MADE ON BFM I THINK THE JOURNALIST REALLY HASN'T SET HIS SIGHTS ON JERSEY.THERE PARTIES TO GO TO IN JERSEY. YOU HAVE THE(DELIVERENCE)MONTHLY PARTY, FAMILY SOUL EVERY SATURDAY, THE 43rd ST CAFE EVERY SATURDAY,THE ARENA EVERY FRIDAY.I CAN SAY I HAVE BEEN TO ALL OF THESE PARTIES ON A CONSISTANT BASIS AND I GIVE THEM AN A+ FOR KEEPING HOUSE MUSIC AT IT'S PURIST.A LITTLE NOTE TO THE JOURNALIST: THE HOUSE SCENE IS STILL AROUND IN JERSEY. WE WILL BE HERE FOREVER!!!!!!

unifyingvibes

12-06-2003, 11:44 PM

Couldn't even read the whole article for all the negative energy and untruths in the first few paragraphs. Don't even go to that site anyway. Some souls love chaos. So many experts on OUR music and lives. Anyone not from NJ don't go by this article; not all false but definitely not all fact. Who's the so called editor for that site? Ranting and raving on a message board is one thing but a feature article full of distasteful crap?

Basecore Boy

12-07-2003, 01:11 AM

DAMN, DRAMA.

I WONDER WHERE HE GETS HIS INFO?

WHEN ARE WE GONNA JUST RESPECT FOLKS AND WHAT THEY DO.

FIREFLY,

I UNDERSTAND YOUR FRUSTRATION, BUT PLANT A GOOD SEED AND SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL WILL GROW.

Nick_G

12-07-2003, 06:15 AM

I dunno about the club/party scene over there (being in the UK) but I wouldn't say their house scene is dead. What about Metro Area/Environ Records?

djLesCole

12-07-2003, 08:08 AM

Firefly and his article are definitely full of SH!T. I can't think of a time when there was NOWHERE to go in Jerzee, much thanks to Naeem Johnson and Jihad Muhammed for always filling in the gaps up here in northern Jerzee, and I know my boy Eddie Boom always seems to be doing this and that down in southern Jerzee. Naeem had Black Box going for quite a while, then there was Club Eclipse, which on some nights were packed beyond capacity (on a weeknight!), then Jihad stepped in and started doing his thing again, DJ Dove was doing a party in Hoboken, James "JT" Toney was doing a party (same building that "Deliverence" is held in). Jihad, I will say that after Club Movement, we really started to see a plethora of events in Jerzee, many of the current events have already been named by others. Firefly, have you been to Cafe Euphoria on a Monday night to see the love, support, and excitement we have for house? Or maybe you got there during the show when there is often no more room for anyone else to enter the building and some have to wait out on the sidewalk and just listen. There have been times in recent months where I just want to go out on a Thursday and I have choice as to where I can go for some house, which reminds me that Cassio has also helped to keep things going here in Jerzee. Naeem has a Friday night event that is packed every week and he's educating people and converting many to house. Tamir is doing the same at his Friday night spot, the East Side Bar. Saturday nights give us PLENTY of GOOD options. Deliverance, a monthly party, has people just waiting in anticipation for the next one. There are other parties being planned right now. So I ask you FIREFLY........which Jerzee were you talking about?

KJAX

12-07-2003, 09:12 AM

I am not from Jersey, but I came here - bringing a deep devotion to this music - in 1999 to take a newspaper job. I missed Zanzibar, but even as an outsider I have learned just how rich this state was and continues to be in terms of artists, producers and DJs developing the music and the scene. In the last few years, things have really come around. I have been to almost every one of the parties mentioned in this thread and have plans to continue going. This is not because, as a journalist, I am some sort of curious onlooker, but because I love this music, want to better understand it and to help share with others what I have experienced of its benefits. I have already interviewed some of you and hope to speak with many more at some point. The history of house needs to be preserved in general, but also from a Jersey perspective. I hope to contribute to that effort. Speak to me. ;)

Moksha

12-07-2003, 10:50 AM

Real journalists should NEVER write anonymously. Ethically, we should always take responsibility for our words. (Especially in a world where defamation lawsuits run rampant). It is part of the checks and balances system designed to keep journalism truthful, which should be a journalist's primary motivation.

If it is not a journalist, but an "industry insider" writing, who must protect their name due to their position, the publication should let us know that.

Posts on this thread allude to fallacies in the article. I would be interested to hear which statements made are categorically untrue.

däp

12-07-2003, 12:15 PM

who is Frirefly? that is the question.

the interview is scathing without a doubt. is firely credible? he/she also has a lot to say (negatively) about message boards. graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[ December 07, 2003, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: t o r i n ]

Bill Blake

12-07-2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
FOUL!!! graemlins/puke.gif

As usual, more hate spewing from those who sit on the sidelines doing nothing to push this scene forward So you are saying I wrote the shit?

FUCK YOU!

saadir7

12-07-2003, 01:28 PM

on the ny story, i thought maybe they're
just expressing their own opinion
and because of lil ray's emotional outburst
some of that shit must've been true.
but now bounce fm is back with
more bullshit. if the writers had the
balls to say "yeah i said it, what!"
then maybe i could respect it. but dissin
folks hard, and hiding, and making this
a regular occurence of their website
is WACK.
i have totally lost respect for
bouncefm.
nj brothers and sisters, don't be
deterred. keep on keepin on.
when i first started spinnin, cats were
tellin me i reminded them of jerzee. i
took it as a big compliment, did the knowledge
and research (short of actually visiting)
and give you all mad respect.

liL Ray

12-07-2003, 01:40 PM

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[ December 08, 2003, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

DJ Timmy Richardson

12-07-2003, 02:07 PM

By that theory, the Jerzee article would be true. If Ray hadnt responded then it would have been false. Weird logic.

By the way, gotta give DHP credit for Jerzeeeee. Who coined that, Lennox.

DJ Timmy Richardson

12-07-2003, 02:09 PM

BTW Muema, how come you never post an opinion about these controversies you like to post? Ray called you out and all you did was post part one of the story. Don't you feel like you should defend BounceFm? Whats the deal?

Prince HiFi

12-07-2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by DJ Timmy Richardson:
By the way, gotta give DHP credit for Jerzeeeee. Who coined that, Lennox. DJ Rated M came up with it in it's first incarnation.

By the way, anybody got a rack nut or a knob from Zanz that I can install on my console? :D As character assassination it was so over the top I had to laugh.

Prince HiFi

DJ Timmy Richardson

12-07-2003, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by Prince HiFi:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DJ Timmy Richardson:
By the way, gotta give DHP credit for Jerzeeeee. Who coined that, Lennox. DJ Rated M came up with it in it's first incarnation.

By the way, anybody got a rack nut or a knob from Zanz that I can install on my console? :D As character assassination it was so over the top I had to laugh.

Prince HiFi [/QUOTE]Yea I did get a laugh out of the rack nut line. I thought the Jerzee line was a tribute to Rated M's famous "Word" line.

Chris Conrad

12-07-2003, 02:57 PM

hhmm..let's see...i'm gonna get hung as usual for saying certain thing about this, but here it goes anyway:

there is a part 1 to this, that ran i think a month ago on the same site, some people mentioned they can't wait for part 2...this appears to be part 2, and i recall reading a part 1 some time ago, do a search on bouce fm. part 1, if some of you would actually read it, actually praises the jersey scene for what it was and its roots in house music. kris flowers on our board (yellorange) even chimed in and cleared some things up and added to to the first piece...go check our site. some of you who are dissing this part 2, praised part 1, how quickly we forget. part 1 acknowledges some of the very things mentioned by some of you as being good jersey things, go read it before jumping all over bounce fm.

yes, this is written in a very sensationalist manner, very 'enquirer' as someone mentioned, and when you read it, it makes you feel the author is an *sshole, that's the first impression i got anyway. now, i was gonna diss this also, but, after rereading it, individual points have truth to them. i am from jersey, but was not around much in the 'early days' as some of you were, but nevertheless, got my start here and obvliously am associated with a big part of the jersey scene. instead of dissing this piece, let us dissect it, some people said its all false, let's see which parts are false instead of blanket dissing it.

jihad and others mentioned many of the good things happening in jersey, past and present, and i agree with all his mentions and we can easily add more people and parties to the mix. if you read part 1, it mentions some of the past things jihad mentioned. its all in there, praising jersey. i'd like to mention also what bruce jeffers was doing at marlo's, dope night. this part 2 also mentions in the end of the article that there are a handful of good things happening in jersey.

so let me see which points i know to be true, from direct experience and direct contact with people:

dissing jersey-let's pull up all the posts on this board alone where people diss jersey...'Jerzee', etc...plenty of tony bashing also in the past...other sites/boards aren't innocent either...

half assed websites/spellcheck-hmmm...didn't some of you diss a certain someone from jersey who posts here for his site? again, let's search this site...

people posing with their consoles-no comment, check out certain jersey websites...

decline of a college house scene-i can personally attest to this, its how i started. go to any jersey college now, you will not find much good house music. many of you others from jersey got started this way also...

thug behavior-hmm..i've heard several first hand accounts from people who used to play at places like zanzibar, of other local dj's trying to steal their records, death threats, sabotage, etc...people also trying to step in other dj's parties, while pretending to be their boys...this has happened to me also several times locally.

people getting locked up-come on, we all know who they are...at least the article didn't point them out by name to embarrass them...

fake sound guys-everyone i meet claims to be a sound tech in jersey. go to certain record/sound shops and listen to the conversations...'yeah man, i got the original zanz urei, with the special modifications...'no man, i have the original mixer, just ask so and so...'...or my favorite...'yo conrad, which pieces from zanz does tony have up in his house...'

hearing certain records at every damn party-this is 100% true...go see for yourself...

a lack of parties around a certian time-in 95/96 or so, everyone around seemed to give up...yes, there were a handful of things going on, and yes there were always things going on, but not like in the late 80's, early 90's...so how is this not true? i stopped playing from 96-99 myself...what is happening now in jersey is a far cry from that era back then...

record stores closing in jersey-shall we list them?

zanzibar going downhill-apart froma few legit people trying to keep it going after tony left, how long did the club last? brick city anyone? blown out system anyone? whack dj's anyone? dj politics anyone?

outdated productions-i can think of at least a dozen promos i received this past year alone that sound like left over tracks or unrealeased material from like 1991...with generic gospel vocals...

no more revolutionary jersey radio shows...the few left play the usual 'jersey standards' and current standards...all the original guys who started these college shows have moved on or disappeared...

people not supporting-jihad mentioned japan, i've been there also, great place, great people, everything he said is true. i went with tony, 2000 people came to see him...last year, when tony was playing back 'home' in newark, how many came out every time??? all i heard was a bunch of whining from people who wanted to hear their favorites from zanz, or on the other hand, those who wanted ot hear the current shelter standards...sh*t should have been rammed you'd think...i'm gonna wait for the usual responses of how it wasn't 'promoted correctly'...

i'm not defending this article by any means, but i'd like to see others dissect it also instead of jumping all over it..if its that wrong, let's prove mr. firefly wrong...so far nobody has...and again, part 1 from last month and the last part of this part 2 says there are good things in jersey also, so let's actually read these before jumping all over them. the article doesn't really mention anyone specifically, i see no names with regard to certain things, so how is it slander?also, remember this, all of the things that were said in this piece can be applied to any local scene, be it nyc or chicago, this one just happened to focus on jersey. again, if its that bad or that false, let's prove firefly wrong instead of getting mad. the pieces have some holes in them and left out some stuff, but overall, in a generic way, its all true.

Chris Conrad

12-07-2003, 03:07 PM

i want to add also that A LOT of the industry lives or works out of jersey...from Louie Vega, to Roger Sanchez, to many many vocalists and producers, such as Kerri Chandler, Sabrina Jonhston, Kevin Yost, Todd Edwards, Dave Lalla, Junior Sanchez, Harry Romero, Todd Gardner, Kevin Hedge etc...

jihad muhammad

12-07-2003, 03:29 PM

it should also be noted that you can't go in any club in jersey without hearing a house jam new or old.
some of the things chris conrad mentioned are true but they happen everywhere. stores close, everybody thinks they are a sound tech, everyone thinks they have the original this or that. everyone has a story so i guess we should wait until someone posts about ny, chicago, cali? that article was nothing but an attempt to diss not only jersey but the house scene in general. you see there is already a campaign out here to diss the house scene....we have seen it already on previous threads. so now what the haters do is try to tear down the scene brick by brick by saying jersey ain't doing this or new york ain't doing that. thats bullshit.
i can go on record saying that since i have been playing in jersey there hasn't been a year where i haven't played....except when i decided to take a break back in 96.
like sweetiluv said it seems that the heads always had a place to go when they wanted to get their party on. so again i ask....where did firefly get his info? and if firefly had the balls o write the article then use your real name and give me some real names within your article. i mean since it was written in the style of the enquirer you could have named some people, places and things instead of using tony humphries name as the one who brought on the decline of house in jersey by leaving the zanzibar. you use no other names b/c the article you wrote comes from one who doesn't hang in jersey.

Moksha

12-07-2003, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Chris Conrad:

i'm not defending this article by any means, but i'd like to see others dissect it also instead of jumping all over it..if its that wrong, let's prove mr. firefly wrong...so far nobody has...

again, if its that bad or that false, let's prove firefly wrong instead of getting mad. the pieces have some holes in them and left out some stuff, but overall, in a generic way, its all true. I have to agree. Those criticizing the article would do much better to tell us what is actually wrong with the content of the piece than telling us not to even read it (sorry Ray).

Getting worked up about it without explaining why, kind of substantiates the attitude the article describes. Again, peeps should be talking about WHAT is incorrect in the article.

It does seem to be written with the Donger/Markbe style that illuminates truths while pissing off as many people as possible. That style, however, does not refute the underlying truths.

Reading Chris' post seems to further reinforce the story.

Honestly, I don't know much about the present Jersey scene beyond the things I read here, so I'm certainly not agreeing with the article. However, as Chris points out, a lot of the things written about have been substantiated by what goes on on the DHP.

Regardless, the author, or the author's reason for writing anonymously should be known.

Chris Conrad

12-07-2003, 03:54 PM

exactly...i think the reason people got bent out of shape is because it singles out new jersey, liek i said in my above reply, many of these things can be applied to nyc or other places as well, but it just so happens this 'article' singled out new jersey. the writing was confrontational, and very very general, only mentioned a few specifics, i think thats why peopel feel its by an outsider. i'm not dissing jersey, as i'm a part of this and will be for some time, but we have garnered a reputation, especially on the message boards. i'm curious to see if there are any other parts to this, or future 'articles' by this person, and what they will cover.

DJ Rated M

12-07-2003, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by Prince HiFi:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DJ Timmy Richardson:
By the way, gotta give DHP credit for Jerzeeeee. Who coined that, Lennox. DJ Rated M came up with it in it's first incarnation.

By the way, anybody got a rack nut or a knob from Zanz that I can install on my console? :D As character assassination it was so over the top I had to laugh.

Prince HiFi [/QUOTE]that's right....

and for those disses that always would say "Jerzee' would not say that man to man..........believe that!

kudos Mr. Conrad for pointing those things out....

liL Ray

12-07-2003, 04:02 PM

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[ December 08, 2003, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

liL Ray

12-07-2003, 04:03 PM

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[ December 08, 2003, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

BigHaus

12-07-2003, 04:10 PM

Wow! Lots of dialogue. I'm not going to address each of the responses, but I will address several:

1) re: Konbit and the anonymity. This industry is mad small. And as we know people can be petty and payback can be a b*tch. I will say the person is an industry insider and the way this industry works, its easy to get blackballed. As such, I respected the request for anonymity. (For those wondering, no it was not written by me.)

2) re: Timmy and defending BounceFM.Com. I really don't feel a need to defend the site. I think in the 5 years I've run SpeedGarage.Com and now BounceFM.Com the legacy should speak for itself.

In my years of running the site, I've tried to raise awareness for, celebrate and document the music we all love by profiling the people and parties behind it. Sometimes this documenting includes reviews, some of which are good and some of which are not.

You mean to tell me in over 100+ stories over the years, because 2 stories happen not to be favorable the site should be blackballed? As my grandmother would say Bullsh*t.

One of the site's goals is to provide a platform for discussion - which clearly is happening. Recently someone on the site wrote a review of Frankie Knuckles in LA which was not very favorable. Frankie saw it, and wrote back explaining what was up. His response and the way he handled the review was extremely professional. No calls for boycotts, etc. He explained his side of the story and I ran it. End of story. Its all love.

With regard to running this article, the person who wrote it made some good points which, though he used Jersey as the focal point, could reference other scenes (NYC, Chicago, etc.).

Some of the items stated in the interview I can say I've personnally experienced. I've had people tell me they have original equipment from Zanzibar.

In closing I'll say this:

a) I've reached out to one Jersey DJ who's agreed to be interviewed on the site to tell his story and that of Jersey. We will run his story.

b) I extend the olive branch out to anyone else who'd like to be interviewed about Jersey, or the scene in general, contact me at info@bouncefm.com

c) I also extend an offering to anyone who wishes to write an article about Jersey to tell its history from the beginning to the present state. Once again contact me at info@bouncefm.com

Finally, I think Chris Conrad's breakdown of the article seemed pretty accurate. I'm with Konbit, " tell us what is actually wrong with the content of the piece than telling us not to even read it."

Peace

-M

Moksha

12-07-2003, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
you two(Conrad and Konbit) missed the point as usual....

Sooooo, no we don't have to pick the topic apart and prove or dis-prove it line for line....that would be a worthless and futile exercise only benefitting the imbecile that wrote this article....Hey! I thought I usually agreed with you!

I don't think there is anything wrong with being critical, even harshly so, if there is truth to it (isn't that what you often praise in Magus' diatribes?). There is an abundance of people big-upping the scene, and it is good to have people doing the opposite. If we don't acknowledge what is wrong, how can we change for the better? With all of your anti-PLUR posts, I thought you felt the same.

However, if there are fallacies to the article, which peeps on this thread have claimed exist, I think they most certainly should be picked apart. If the article is unfactual bullshit, it should be shown as such. I doubt that will help the "imbecile" who wrote it.

Again, I don't know enough about the Jersey scene to say one way or the other, so I depend on a healthy dialog in order to inform me.

Chris Conrad

12-07-2003, 04:15 PM

my thoughts? is it foul...i can see how you can interpret it that way, because, it does single out jersey for whatever reason. that's the only part i would consider foul, because like i said, i'm in jersey also. i didn't think much of it, i ersonally liked part 1, because it gave credit where credit is due in terms of jersey, and krius flowers added his own bit of history to part 1 over on the yellorange board, so it was nice to see some mention of jersey history. i think the good and the bad speak for themselves in jersey...the history and the industry folks are certainly here, but there is a bad side, some of which was unfortunately brought to light in this current firefly article. as for boycotting bouncefm, etc...for what? so he ran a few of these 'enquirer' type pieces, who cares. if it was all about that, then yes, maybe the site would be a bit distasteful, but there are various interviews and photo essays and what not and i don;t see many other people shelling out the money to do the same, so who cares. i mean damn, i get mad at my local papers and magazine i subscribe for certian things they run, but i'm not gonna cancel them because of one story every once in a while. the best we could do in jersey is to prove firefly wrong instead of jumping all over it with blanket dissing. this piece didn't ruin my day like it seemed to for some. like i said before, only thing foul about it was that it singled out jersey.

DJ Rated M

12-07-2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DJ Rated M:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Prince HiFi:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DJ Timmy Richardson:
By the way, gotta give DHP credit for Jerzeeeee. Who coined that, Lennox. DJ Rated M came up with it in it's first incarnation.

By the way, anybody got a rack nut or a knob from Zanz that I can install on my console? :D As character assassination it was so over the top I had to laugh.

Prince HiFi [/QUOTE]that's right....

and for those disses that always would say "Jerzee' would not say that man to man..........believe that!

kudos Mr. Conrad for pointing those things out.... [/QUOTE]So what's your thought on the article? [/QUOTE]there is some truth to what was said......

there was some BS too.......

i'm not all bent out of shape about it........

liL Ray

12-07-2003, 04:23 PM

....

[ December 08, 2003, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

liL Ray

12-07-2003, 04:27 PM

....

[ December 08, 2003, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

DJ Timmy Richardson

12-07-2003, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by BigHaus:
Wow! Lots of dialogue. I'm not going to address each of the responses, but I will address several:

1) re: Konbit and the anonymity. This industry is mad small. And as we know people can be petty and payback can be a b*tch. I will say the person is an industry insider and the way this industry works, its easy to get blackballed. As such, I respected the request for anonymity. (For those wondering, no it was not written by me.)

2) re: Timmy and defending BounceFM.Com. I really don't feel a need to defend the site. I think in the 5 years I've run SpeedGarage.Com and now BounceFM.Com the legacy should speak for itself.

In my years of running the site, I've tried to raise awareness for, celebrate and document the music we all love by profiling the people and parties behind it. Sometimes this documenting includes reviews, some of which are good and some of which are not.

You mean to tell me in over 100+ stories over the years, because 2 stories happen not to be favorable the site should be blackballed? As my grandmother would say Bullsh*t.

One of the site's goals is to provide a platform for discussion - which clearly is happening. Recently someone on the site wrote a review of Frankie Knuckles in LA which was not very favorable. Frankie saw it, and wrote back explaining what was up. His response and the way he handled the review was extremely professional. No calls for boycotts, etc. He explained his side of the story and I ran it. End of story. Its all love.

With regard to running this article, the person who wrote it made some good points which, though he used Jersey as the focal point, could reference other scenes (NYC, Chicago, etc.).

Some of the items stated in the interview I can say I've personnally experienced. I've had people tell me they have original equipment from Zanzibar.

In closing I'll say this:

a) I've reached out to one Jersey DJ who's agreed to be interviewed on the site to tell his story and that of Jersey. We will run his story.

b) I extend the olive branch out to anyone else who'd like to be interviewed about Jersey, or the scene in general, contact me at info@bouncefm.com

c) I also extend an offering to anyone who wishes to write an article about Jersey to tell its history from the beginning to the present state. Once again contact me at info@bouncefm.com

Finally, I think Chris Conrad's breakdown of the article seemed pretty accurate. I'm with Konbit, " tell us what is actually wrong with the content of the piece than telling us not to even read it."

Peace

-M You may not feel a need to defend, but something has to be said about all the negativity that it promotes. You yourself pull out the most controversial quotes in the interviews and post them all over the place.

An opinionated review of a cd is way different than someone telling lies about Ray's Jamboree. And that is what they were. By the way, did the person who reviewed Knuckles' cd print their name. A BIG part of the problem from your reporters are their pussy way of not wanting to be identified.

You can do as you please with your site, but as you can see here, cats are vowing never to go back to it, because of this latest anonymous "reporter".

Moksha

12-07-2003, 04:32 PM

Thank you, Muema. I see where you're coming from on all the points you discuss.

One thing that has always been tough for me is writing music reviews. When writiing non-house reviews, I can be totally honest, for better or for worse. But writing house reviews is very difficult. I love this music and community, and criticizing a track that someone put their heart and soul into can take a lot out of me (and definitely has lost me some induzzzztry friends). As a consequence, I now try to only review things that I like and want to share with others. I've decided that magazine space is better used telling music lovers what they should get than what sucks.

Now, technically, that's not good journalism. As a critic, I should be presenting the good and the bad. But, I've decided that I don't want to be a person who degrades this community. . .even if that means that shitty records are ignored instead of critiicized.

My point is:

Muema, you must understand why others feel like you should act like me as a reviewer and spend your time pointing out the good (which there is plenty of). There are enough forces out there working against us that it is difficult to understand why "one of our own" would want to deface deep house. I hope that you presented this article in the spirit of journalism, not sensationalism.

On the other hand, those who dislike the piece, you have to appreciate the courage of those who do "hate" on the scene. Sometimes medicine doesn't taste very good. . .but it can help heal us. There is enough ass-kissing in effect that once in a while we need the haters to better see the big picture. We all have opinions, and it is important that even those we don't like/agree with have their voices heard. I'm sure that BounceFM knew that this article wouldn't make it more popular with the DHP. . . But obviously, the opinion presented does exist, and it is good ("Fair and Balanced" :D ) that we are made aware of it.

liL Ray

12-07-2003, 04:38 PM

.....

[ December 08, 2003, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

BigHaus

12-07-2003, 04:48 PM

Timmy & Konbit, I hear you both and respect what you have to say. As for the review of the Jamboree, I thought we were over that?

I extended an offer to Ray to
a) tell his side of the story and
b)be interviewed to quash it and he declined. In an effort to put that incident to rest again, Ray if you would like to be interviewed about your contributions to the NYC scene and about the review of the Jamboree, holla at me.

info@bouncefm.com

Ronnie Ron

12-07-2003, 04:49 PM

The content of Part 2 was mean spirited as was the content of the article done about Ray's Jamboree, we have no place for that negativity in our HOUSE.

Keep on Keepin on people

R-R

Moksha

12-07-2003, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
you have to appreciate the courage of those who do "hate" on the scene. Courage...hahahahahaha....you're shitting me, right....hahahahahaha

sorry...I'm done now..... [/QUOTE]Ooops! Not to give the wrong idea. . .Firefly didn't display any courage using an alias. Had he done so under his real name, that would be different.

Muema arguably showed courage. . .assuming that he presented the article to show a harsh reality as opposed to a way to increase his net traffic.

I was really thinking more generally about those willing to present unpopular ideas.

Sorry. . .I kinda got out of context for a minute.

DJ Rated M

12-07-2003, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
Hypocrites abound....what do I care, anyways.....hahahaha, folks really show their true colors everytime....I love this scene, I just really hate most of the players....carry on proving these haters point....I'm done! yes, there are a LOT of hypocrites out here....believe that too!!!

Prince HiFi

12-07-2003, 05:27 PM

One of my biggest problems with the article was that the author went to great lengths to attack the contributions of people who may have a harder time financially or in other cases for people's spelling ability, meanwhile lamenting the disappearance of college and alternative types from the scene. What is that kind of elitism all about? What, only Manhattan marketing dipshits get to do house? It shows the author's ignorance about the forces that legitimately contribute to this thing. So someone has 5Gs in sound gear in their house or their website is homebrewed? Is this not the kind of participation in house culture which should be embraced? Is this not house culture itself? For me the hatefulness of the article superceded whatever biased points the author thought he was making. As publisher of anonymous hateful diatribes I think Muema has to bear responsibility as if he wrote the article himself. I'm not surprised some people are feeling "Fuck BounceFM".

Prince HiFi

[ December 07, 2003, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Prince HiFi ]

Sweetiwluv

12-07-2003, 05:39 PM

Lets be politically correct for a minute - One has freedom of speech!

But I was always taught a couple of cliches' that work:

Its not what you say it's how you say it and you can catch more flies with honey then salt.

Jerzee heads including myself would have been more apt to be more understanding if the article didn't sound so one-sided, opinionated and as a personal attack on the scene here (yes it is cross the board but it was here.)

I would love to believe that people can say what they want. But did you have to be so hateful in the words that you spew? (again content is everything)

Let's just learn to be conscience of the things that we put out there for others to read and if you don't want it to be criticized or torn apart do what you have to do on your end so that it won't happen to you.

This is just a lesson to be learned - lets learn it! biggrinangel.gif

liL Ray

12-07-2003, 05:53 PM

!!!

[ December 08, 2003, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

DJ Rated M

12-07-2003, 05:56 PM

someone sounds a lil upset.....

BigHaus

12-07-2003, 06:00 PM

God Bless You

imported_Gman

12-07-2003, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by BigHaus:
Timmy & Konbit, I hear you both and respect what you have to say. As for the review of the Jamboree, I thought we were over that?

I extended an offer to Ray to
a) tell his side of the story and
b)be interviewed to quash it and he declined. In an effort to put that incident to rest again, Ray if you would like to be interviewed about your contributions to the NYC scene and about the review of the Jamboree, holla at me.

info@bouncefm.com ...and who would that benefit? Puhleeeeaaazzzzzzzee!!

FU!!! [/QUOTE]graemlins/nono.gif Ray take a deep breath and let it out slowly. 1.......2......3........

-G

Ron la Rock

12-07-2003, 06:47 PM

hmmm another episode of
"as the thread grows"
it seems another anology of ths thing we call
"house" (I'm tryn 2 move out myself) is also becoming aparent (the house mafia madness)
if you agree and always show favor or love of certain folk or sections then its cool we are one "House"
all the saints go jacking in and what not ;)
but if critic or diss or question certain aspects of this so called scene then your fucked up
give meee a phuckin break

I'll agree in that whoever is writting these needs 2 be a real person with a real indentity
but then again we probabley need an "BUG" if you will in our "house" letting us know how we look from the outside instead of the inside out???
I'm not sure but
1 question come 2 mind
its ok 4 us 2 get down and be real without the pc ness on this board
(i've heard/read everyone ragg or at least critic some aspect of house on this here board from time 2 time including meself)but not OK 4 someone else too do so on
thier board???? in this case bouncefm
can you say
H Y P O C R Y T S

think about it

no shocking revalations in the artical and as pointed out put NYC,CHI etc in NJs place and it will be the same
mucho luv 4 jerz-ay alwayz
graemlins/acclaim.gif
laterz
(paizley)
graemlins/cool_shades.gif

Bill Blake

12-07-2003, 07:15 PM

Bill Blake

12-07-2003, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
Real journalists should NEVER write anonymously. Ethically, we should always take responsibility for our words. (Especially in a world where defamation lawsuits run rampant). It is part of the checks and balances system designed to keep journalism truthful, which should be a journalist's primary motivation.

If it is not a journalist, but an "industry insider" writing, who must protect their name due to their position, the publication should let us know that.

Posts on this thread allude to fallacies in the article. I would be interested to hear which statements made are categorically untrue. Konbit, weren’t the Federalist Papers, arguably the most important thing ever published in a U.S. newspaper written anonymously?

statuskuo

12-07-2003, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DJ Timmy Richardson:
By that theory, the Jerzee article would be true. If Ray hadnt responded then it would have been false. Weird logic.

By the way, gotta give DHP credit for Jerzeeeee. Who coined that, Lennox. I think it was Kai [/QUOTE]don't pull me into this shit. my relationship with Jerzeee is of a love-and-hate one. The soulful shit in the early to mid 90's were mostly Jerzee sounds that i grew to love.. most of those joints that John Robinson, Naeem Johnson, Dove and Disciple dropped on the radio, to me, were quintessential, distinct jersey sounds. Can't say the same about today's stuff tho. not hating, just expressing my feeling on it and what it does to me-- nothing.
Todd Edwards still remains one of my favorite producers (does anyone still play his tracks anywhere? it seems liike i am the only one who can appreciate his beats). John Robinson (one of my fave vocal track producers) RIP.

JERZEEEEEEEEE!

Chris Conrad

12-07-2003, 09:14 PM

yo kai, i buy almost every todd edwards release...
cats in jersey seemed to forget about him when he was a big part of the sound back in the day, probably because of the damn brits crediting him with starting speed garage...defiently one of the lost jersey heroes...we'll never get those days back in this current climate of music and industry...

mhd

12-07-2003, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
Real journalists should NEVER write anonymously. Ethically, we should always take responsibility for our words. (Especially in a world where defamation lawsuits run rampant). It is part of the checks and balances system designed to keep journalism truthful, which should be a journalist's primary motivation.

If it is not a journalist, but an "industry insider" writing, who must protect their name due to their position, the publication should let us know that.

Posts on this thread allude to fallacies in the article. I would be interested to hear which statements made are categorically untrue. Konbit, weren’t the Federalist Papers, arguably the most important thing ever published in a U.S. newspaper written anonymously? [/QUOTE]using this logic muema should get a pulitzer

statuskuo

12-07-2003, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by Chris Conrad:
yo kai, i buy almost every todd edwards release...
cats in jersey seemed to forget about him when he was a big part of the sound back in the day, probably because of the damn brits crediting him with starting speed garage...defiently one of the lost jersey heroes...we'll never get those days back in this current climate of music and industry... Muema loves speed garage.

statuskuo

12-07-2003, 09:20 PM

BigHaus

12-07-2003, 09:23 PM

No Kai, its speed "garige"

statuskuo

12-07-2003, 09:28 PM

shit porridge.
muema, was todd edwards one of your heroes, too?

BigHaus

12-07-2003, 09:41 PM

Absolutely, prolific producer still keepin' the torch alive to this day!

And who can forget John Robinson's FAMILY PRAYER. Back in the day, the midday mix, everyone was rockin' it on their lunch break. I used to sneak out of corporate HQ at world trade center and sport the headphones. Jerzeeeeee!

Not to mention all the folks that live in and represent Jerzeeee including
* Blaze "LIFT HIM UP",
* Dennis Ferrer "Peace In The Middle East (Dennis F.'s Canweallgetalong Mix)",
* Kerri Chandler "INSPIRATION",
* CassioWare "BABY LOVE",
* Joi Cardwell "TROUBLE",
* Kenny Bobien "THANK YOU"
* Tony Humphries "Power Of Love (Zanzibar Vocal Mix)"

and the list goes on and on.

BigHaus

12-07-2003, 09:44 PM

And I can't forget Tony's remix of "I am Attracted To You (Kickin' Mix Part II)".

Sick!

däp

12-07-2003, 09:54 PM

maybe my comprehension is a little slow but aside from the factual events re: clubs, etc., this "report" reeks of a personal attack minus names.

[ December 07, 2003, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: t o r i n ]

statuskuo

12-07-2003, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by BigHaus:
Absolutely, prolific producer still keepin' the torch alive to this day!

And who can forget John Robinson's FAMILY PRAYER. Back in the day, the midday mix, everyone was rockin' it on their lunch break. I used to sneak out of corporate HQ at world trade center and sport the headphones. Jerzeeeeee!

Not to mention all the folks that live in and represent Jerzeeee including
* Blaze "LIFT HIM UP",
* Dennis Ferrer "Peace In The Middle East (Dennis F.'s Canweallgetalong Mix)",
* Kerri Chandler "INSPIRATION",
* CassioWare "BABY LOVE",
* Joi Cardwell "TROUBLE",
* Kenny Bobien "THANK YOU"
* Tony Humphries "Power Of Love (Zanzibar Vocal Mix)"
and the list goes on and on. no todd edwards?

BigHaus

12-07-2003, 10:25 PM

Yes, when I said prolific producer, I was referring to Todd. Some of my favorite Tood joints include:

* Crazy Love (Todd Edwards Underground Remix)
* Love Shy (Todd Edwards Vocal Mix)
and of course the anthem

SAVED MY LIFE. Banging track!

DJ Hutch

12-08-2003, 03:19 AM

THAT SHIT IS FUNNY graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl5.gif

DJ Rated M

12-08-2003, 06:01 AM

Bill Blake

12-08-2003, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
Real journalists should NEVER write anonymously. Ethically, we should always take responsibility for our words. (Especially in a world where defamation lawsuits run rampant). It is part of the checks and balances system designed to keep journalism truthful, which should be a journalist's primary motivation.

If it is not a journalist, but an "industry insider" writing, who must protect their name due to their position, the publication should let us know that.

Posts on this thread allude to fallacies in the article. I would be interested to hear which statements made are categorically untrue. Konbit, weren’t the Federalist Papers, arguably the most important thing ever published in a U.S. newspaper written anonymously? [/QUOTE]using this logic muema should get a pulitzer [/QUOTE]Actually it ain’t got anything to do with the article. Just Konbits’ argument on anonymity and ethics.

Isn’t Firefly a GI JOE character?

messiah

12-08-2003, 09:23 AM

All I have to say is that while playing at The Sheba and Bravos Cafe I have contributed to exposing house music to people that normally wouldn't be bothered with the music. They have grown to appreciate the music in the bar scene.

I invited many brothers (Lil Ray, Tamir, Keith Porter, Master Kev, Jihad Muhammad, DJ Earon etc..) to come to the Sheba to share their musical talents with the bar scene on a underground level, and they showed love to each and every one of them.

All I have to say is I give respect to the ones who go against the grain to make things happen for house music.

I reached out to Muema when it was still speedgarage.com and asked him to consider doing an interview with me while at the sheba (with an attendance of 250+ patrons every weekend) so he could see for himself. He never responded!!!

I guess since I'm not really known I gets no love.

messiah

12-08-2003, 09:25 AM

it's New Jersey, not Jerzzeee!

Can't stand that.

BigHaus

12-08-2003, 10:06 AM

Messiah, I get 120 emails per day, its possible yours fell through the cracks. Holla at me

info@bouncefm.com

and we'll tell your story.

M

NubianSista

12-08-2003, 02:32 PM

This thread is not for you egomaniacs to indulge in your personal accomplishments. DAMN! Some of you have some big @SS heads and it's not between your legs. You know who you are.

Regarding this entire thread graemlins/sleep2.gif

[ December 09, 2003, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: Nubiansista ]

Moksha

12-08-2003, 02:38 PM

Moksha

12-08-2003, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Actually it ain’t got anything to do with the article. Just Konbits’ argument on anonymity and ethics.
ZZZZzzzzz... take a journalism history class.

Hippie

12-08-2003, 07:56 PM

You know I haven't been around for some time and I come back to find this bullshit! Fact for Mr. or Miss. Firefly, a lot of the new stuff that eventually finds it's away across the river to NY gets played in Jersey First. True some other places may take the credit for it but the truth is that since the Jersey scene is so small and concenrated when a new CD track starts makng rounds within a month it's a standard in our area. 2 Jersey was here before Tony ( I have much respect for the man ) and is still here and will be here when he is long gone. Hell they survived me dropping out of the scene for a while they can survive anyone. 3 Messiah don't feel bad Bounce hasn't asked me for an interview either and I see him around every once in a while. 4. For those that don't like good vocals then don't play them. Most of the producers that do this kind of music do it for the love of it. Hell with that reasoning why do jazz artist still do jazz or rock artist still do rock? Because those people love that style and so goes with vocal house producers. And last Jersey doesn't have to answer to any bullshit review. Our heads, our music, and our clubs will outlast any asshole that lives today! Peace Baby!

Ronnie Ron

12-08-2003, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by Hippie:
You know I haven't been around for some time and I come back to find this bullshit! Fact for Mr. or Miss. Firefly, a lot of the new stuff that eventually finds it's away across the river to NY gets played in Jersey First. True some other places may take the credit for it but the truth is that since the Jersey scene is so small and concenrated when a new CD track starts makng rounds within a month it's a standard in our area. 2 Jersey was here before Tony ( I have much respect for the man ) and is still here and will be here when he is long gone. Hell they survived me dropping out of the scene for a while they can survive anyone. 3 Messiah don't feel bad Bounce hasn't asked me for an interview either and I see him around every once in a while. 4. For those that don't like good vocals then don't play them. Most of the producers that do this kind of music do it for the love of it. Hell with that reasoning why do jazz artist still do jazz or rock artist still do rock? Because those people love that style and so goes with vocal house producers. And last Jersey doesn't have to answer to any bullshit review. Our heads, our music, and our clubs will outlast any asshole that lives today! Peace Baby! THANK YOU!!!!

R-R

saadir7

12-08-2003, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by DJ Timmy Richardson:
By that theory, the Jerzee article would be true. If Ray hadnt responded then it would have been false. Weird logic.

By the way, gotta give DHP credit for Jerzeeeee. Who coined that, Lennox. Let me help you out with some "weird logic".

Example A: Greg calls Raheem gay. Raheem replies, "Yeah, whatever yo". Raheem is sure of himself, knows he's not gay, knows Greg is speaking from a place of ignorance; Greg's words really don't affect Raheem because Raheem knows they are not true.
Example B: Greg calls Raheem gay. Raheem is unsue of himself, wonders "What if...", wonders what his boys would think, thinks shame because of "What if I am..." and proceeds to cuss Greg out, berate Greg, his response is very emotional, his temper escalates, Raheem is blind with RAGE.
Whenever someone tells us about ourselves and our first response is to go off, a lot of times the things they are saying is so true that we fly off the cuff.
hey timmy, "This kind of shit happens everyday"

jihad muhammad

12-09-2003, 10:35 AM

so then tell me where's the truth?

The Real Dragonfly Jones

12-09-2003, 11:31 AM

An opinion is like an a**hole... everyone has one! No time to sweat it!!

Adam Cruz

12-09-2003, 12:52 PM

I'm probably not as credible considering Muema is one of good friends, but so what? That Early cat said harsh things about Ray and others, this Firefly guy/girl said harsh stuff. Doesn't anyone read the papers, people that do stuff are always looked at with a magnifying glass. That article isn't going to hurt the scene. I argue that it helps to draw attention to the scene. That's my 2 cents. Keep it movin' Jersey...good to see some of you at Euphoria last night.

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by The Almagest:
I'm probably not as credible considering Muema is one of good friends, but so what? That Early cat said harsh things about Ray and others, this Firefly guy/girl said harsh stuff. Doesn't anyone read the papers, people that do stuff are always looked at with a magnifying glass. That article isn't going to hurt the scene. I argue that it helps to draw attention to the scene. That's my 2 cents. Keep it movin' Jersey...good to see some of you at Euphoria last night. Since you bring this back up to the top....

so why did you get your knickers in a bunch when harsh things was said about your 'listening' event? I guess it's ok for your boy or his croonies to be harsh when it comes on to others, but it's not ok when folks are harsh with you. C'mon, I wish folks would stop with these alliances and ass-kissing and call it as they see it...the hypocrisy in this thread is stiffling and strangling our scene....

[ December 09, 2003, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

Adam Cruz

12-09-2003, 01:15 PM

Ray, that's not how I feel at all. I was pissed when it was said about me. I've since heard much more said, both positive and negative, about me and the party. Since there's not a whole lot I can do about people's opinion, I still have a "so what" attitude about those kinds of comments. Ray, I made the coment because I had no choice but to practice what I preached, in this case. I'm no exception to the hate either.

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by The Almagest:
Ray, that's not how I feel at all. I was pissed when it was said about me. I've since heard much more said, both positive and negative, about me and the party. Since there's not a whole lot I can do about people's opinion, I still have a "so what" attitude about those kinds of comments. Ray, I made the coment because I had no choice but to practice what I preached, in this case. I'm no exception to the hate either. So should I do the same everytime some scumbag say some distasteful crap? What do you suggest?

Adam Cruz

12-09-2003, 01:23 PM

oh yeah and I don't think I'm being a hypocrite at all, ray. I think you've missed the mark of what I was trying to say. Also, I wasn't aware that I even had croonies. What croonies are you referring to? We have some of the same friends in common. I don't get what you're trying to say. Are you saying that you feel that I'm a hypocrite? I don't think I'm being a hypocrite by defending Muema's right to post whatever articles he'd like. I mean he's paying for the site's maintanence and the space. I think he's done an incredible job within our scene to help promote all of our efforts. Come on people, BounceFM isn't about love and harmony all the time now is it? Why? Cause that's not reality. All you have to do is read the articles that he posts. You'll see that it's about people's views about the scene and less about promoting a false sense that we're all friendly, loving, and unified.

In my opinion only, A

TAD

12-09-2003, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by The Almagest:
I'm probably not as credible considering Muema is one of good friends, but so what? That Early cat......... sorta off topic but i thought "Early" was a gal. second fruedian slip, the first by your good friend.

Adam Cruz

12-09-2003, 01:27 PM

sorry Ray, I misread your comment about the "croonies". I see now that you were saying that he had croonies. You didn't necessarily mean me. Read the rest though...

Adam Cruz

12-09-2003, 01:30 PM

Cosmic...gimme a break. I said "CAT"....maybe I'm not hip enough but I didn't realize that "cat" meant guy OR girl. Sheesh! Now I'm being blamed for the article? Who else...let's point the fingers so everyone is involved in the end. It was Ray...HE WROTE IT! AR15firing.gif graemlins/rofl.gif joking...

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by The Almagest:
oh yeah and I don't think I'm being a hypocrite at all, ray. I think you've missed the mark of what I was trying to say. Also, I wasn't aware that I even had croonies. What croonies are you referring to? We have some of the same friends in common. I don't get what you're trying to say. Are you saying that you feel that I'm a hypocrite? I don't think I'm being a hypocrite by defending Muema's right to post whatever articles he'd like. I mean he's paying for the site's maintanence and the space. I think he's done an incredible job within our scene to help promote all of our efforts. Come on people, BounceFM isn't about love and harmony all the time now is it? Why? Cause that's not reality. All you have to do is read the articles that he posts. You'll see that it's about people's views about the scene and less about promoting a false sense that we're all friendly, loving, and unified.

In my opinion only, A you didn't answer my question....but I'll answer yours...

I used the term cronies because you open your statement by saying I'm probably not as credible considering Muema is one of good friends

as far as him posting stuff on his site, yes, he has that right to post all on his site, but the problem is since his site gets no traffic, he feels he must go to other sites and post sensationalism type gutter journalism....not good.

BounceFm about love and harmony....they(and the new breed) seem to always saying they advocate this, but they do the opposite....so yes you are right in that aspect

as far as Muema and Bounce doing for the scene....that's debatable....with articles like these, if it wasn't for loudmouths like myself and a few others, folks in the internet world would take these hateful words as gospel....so, this is why I can't be the 'better man' like most of y'all an shut up....especially when there are folks who just wanna put sh8 out there that is incorrect....that is detrimental to the NY/NJ scene, but I guess he wouldn't see it like that, because it is evident he has no respect for our scene....so what exactly is/has he done for the scene...

Adam Cruz

12-09-2003, 01:53 PM

oh, so you're saying that good friend = crony? I honestly didn't know. Now I do.

I've answered your question about what do the last time (when the Early article came out)...be mad and all that, but keep it movin'. Ultimately, you (collective you) yell and bitch in vein. Once that's done, you only have two choices: either keep your determination going in whatever you want to pursue or quit because someone called you names...it's as simple as that.

About Muema not getting traffic, I don't know that stuff, but I don't think that was a constructive comment. We all use boards to help promote our efforts - even you ray. IF he's posting on boards to drive traffic, again I say, so what? We all do the same shit to help our causes. If driving high traffic numbers are a priority to Muema (even though high numbers don't mean more money for example since he doesn't get paid a dime), then so be it.

I wonder though, how many of you think I'm now kissing Muema's ass because I'm defending him? I ask because I feel like saying anything on these boards about someone else positively means you're kissing ass. It's almost like the common mentality is, don't say anything cause you'll be a kiss ass and "strangle the scene" ....

TAD

12-09-2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by The Almagest:
Cosmic...gimme a break. I said "CAT"....maybe I'm not hip enough but I didn't realize that "cat" meant guy OR girl. Sheesh! Now I'm being blamed for the article? Who else...let's point the fingers so everyone is involved in the end. It was Ray...HE WROTE IT! AR15firing.gif graemlins/rofl.gif joking... i'm not blaming you for shit. i just find it funny that this anonymous writer who is supposed to be a woman has been twice referenced as a man.

now if you're good friends with muema maybe you know something that i don't.

personally i still feel the earl or early character was a vitriolic attempt at slandering the reputation of certain people. but that's just me. i call it as i see it.

Adam Cruz

12-09-2003, 02:03 PM

[/QUOTE]i'm not blaming you for shit. i just find it funny that this anonymous writer who is supposed to be a woman has been twice referenced as a man.

now if you're good friends with muema maybe you know something that i don't.

personally i still feel the earl or early character was a vitriolic attempt at slandering the reputation of certain people. but that's just me. i call it as i see it. [/QB][/QUOTE]

I actually don't know more than you Cosmic. Muema has been super mum about it and I respect that cause it doesn't really matter who said it in the end. I might be a lot of things, but I'm not stupid enough to at least not get your implication. Wouldn't you get that implication if someone implies something from what you said that you didn't?

I hear what you're saying about what the article may have tried to do, that's your opinion and I respect that, but question: did it work? I say no...does anyone remember the exact words (without reference to it) that was said to Ray or his party? Probably not...most of us probably remember that it wasn't favorable and that's all.

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by The Almagest:
oh, so you're saying that good friend = crony? you are nitpicking...plus you saw I was not refering to you....

Taking a friends side is not ass-kissing....I called you out only because I remembered what went down when they came at you concerning your event and you were pissed, as you should be...it's yours, and you put the work in, and, if you believe in it, you should staunchly defend it....it was just baffling to see your response now, at a mirror image situation...it just seemed like it was ok for you to get upset and defend your point then, but now that we have just about the same situation, you are berating folks for taking the same stand....what changed....is it because it involves a friend now....don't you see how that can be construed as hypocritical?

Why can't we call the kettle black even if a friend is involved? Hope we can still have civil convo in person after we are finish with our virtual debate.

[ December 09, 2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

Adam Cruz

12-09-2003, 02:13 PM

Ray, we're fine in person, but I think you're thought process is off about how I'm feeling or what my intentions were. That's probably my fauly considering how I write, but I wasn't intending to berate anyone. I was suggesting that we all try to rise above it since we're all doing the best we can. Maybe I'm too idealistic, but that's how I feel. I don't think we'll all get along, but if we can keep our momentum going in whatever we do, then the good will outweigh the bad.

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by The Almagest:
I was suggesting that we all try to rise above it since we're all doing the best we can. Maybe I'm too idealistic, but that's how I feel. I don't think we'll all get along, but if we can keep our momentum going in whatever we do, then the good will outweigh the bad. You know Adam, I know you and know that you genuinely feel this way....I'm just tired and weary of those who preach this same idealistic diatribe (both online and off), but every couple of weeks or month, you get one of these trolls pulling you back into the quagmire and they make it difficult to rise above it.....I still think your boy is foul.

...but for now I'll take your advice and try....good debate...

[ December 09, 2003, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

BigHaus

12-09-2003, 02:33 PM

I'm know I'm black, but why'd you have to call me a kettle! Now I'm upset! graemlins/cussing.gif

The Real Dragonfly Jones

12-09-2003, 02:36 PM

U STOOPID!! :D

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by BigHaus:
I'm know I'm black, but why'd you have to call me a kettle! Now I'm upset! graemlins/cussing.gif I know you are just trying to have dialogue with me....I'm sure an astute journalist(rise above it, ray, rise, rise... mad1.gif ) like yourself have heard of the term "the pot calling the kettle black", this was what I was referencing....I know I didn't have to spell it out to you, but I'm taking Adam's advice and "Rising"....I guess it's better than saying FU....

yodvibes

12-09-2003, 03:24 PM

Alright I know its been a while since I posted on here but this one dragged me out.
First of all Muema's done nothing wrong other then give someone a chance to write a column and call it how they see it. Its very simple its that persons opinion. And before he continues to get bashed, Muema's done more for this music on the global front then most people on these boards. Second, I'm from NJ, and you know what, a lot of what was said was true. Keep in mind with the exception of maybe a handful of people, it was only in the past 2 years that the resurgence of local party's came about. Question it, but how many times in talking to all of these people do you hear the words " I just got back into it. I was out of it for a while(from a dj's point of view)" and "I just recently got tables and Im trying to get into it". Now there's nothing wrong with people's effort to try and bring something positive to the table and contribute. If anything Firefly's article should be a wake up call and push anyone who has a problem with it to prove him wrong.

respectfully,
d

DJ Rated M

12-09-2003, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by yodvibes:
Alright I know its been a while since I posted on here but this one dragged me out.
First of all Muema's done nothing wrong other then give someone a chance to write a column and call it how they see it. Its very simple its that persons opinion. And before he continues to get bashed, Muema's done more for this music on the global front then most people on these boards. Second, I'm from NJ, and you know what, a lot of what was said was true. Keep in mind with the exception of maybe a handful of people, it was only in the past 2 years that the resurgence of local party's came about. Question it, but how many times in talking to all of these people do you hear the words " I just got back into it. I was out of it for a while(from a dj's point of view)" and "I just recently got tables and Im trying to get into it". Now there's nothing wrong with people's effort to try and bring something positive to the table and contribute. If anything Firefly's article should be a wake up call and push anyone who has a problem with it to prove him wrong.

respectfully,
d :D

jihad muhammad

12-10-2003, 02:28 PM

i respect what you said dave but firefly and muema tried to paint a picture that theres nothing happenning in jersey. all i have to say is that i have been a foot soldier along with others in this jersey scene trying to make things happen so articles like this will not be written.i never looked to play anywhere else but jersey so that i could be a continuation of the great musical history that lies within newark, nj. if the average joe read what was said they would think that nothing has been happening since tony left zanzibar. the only effect that tony had when he left the zanz was that we couldnt go to zanz anymore. that's it! the scene didnt die when he stepped. if folks wanna really know what happened naeem came with blackbox which was another chapter in the jersey scene.
for those who study journalism i thought getting off of your ass and coming to jersey to see what the scene was like would have been a better choice. i mean since the war on iraq started i dont see anyone giving us second hand reports from ohio sitting behind a desk. those reporters are out on the field. firefly's commentary was so off that you could tell he got it from somewhere else. he couldnt even give you names of nothing other that tony this, tony that. like hippie stated jersey was on the map long before tony came to zanzibar.