Newsweek article on Black Women [Archive]

mhd

03-05-2003, 11:13 PM

leslie posted this too, last week i think

if you read this article and the thread on child support together its a miracle people even get married.

when i was in law school, i hung out with these women who were in medical school, about 5 or 6 of them and they were constantly talking smack about how guys would not be able to hang with them when they started making loot, so they were kinda programming themselves from the start.

on the other hand, many brothers have a hard time seeing women as equals, let alone making more loot than they are or they can. cats that are insecure will never be able handle that situation. money is important but not the only important thing, but when conflict arises the money plays a huge role.
the funny thing is women getting more education and making more money than brothers is nothing new

f0reverneverm0re

03-06-2003, 12:45 AM

so marrying an *African* man is not an option for certain Black american women? or are the stats for the African brothers pretty much the same as the Black-american males?

maybe getting a personal mini-you can help conquer the loneliness

Wild i

03-06-2003, 06:26 AM

I'm no expert on straight relationships (actually I am, but that's the disclaimer), but in my family every single man has gone to college and been excellent students. However, Tee was the only one to graduate and his lower level (AS) degree was conferred postumously. By contrast, almost every woman in my generation [in my family] has completed college and most have gone on to grad school.

I've often wondered what was the dicotomy that seemed to inhibit Black men from completing college. We're hoping for better things for this current college-age generation.

“Oftentimes women go into higher education and beyond because they can’t depend on anyone else to support them or their children,” Evans points out. And whereas boys typically lack focus, girls show up with a sense of purpose. “Females had no excuses about anything,” says Kevin Cook,

I think this statement speaks volumes about the reasons why sisters carry on and move up, even as their men lag behind.

I do know from experience that it can be difficult to be involved with someone who is not as financially or educationally successful. There can be resentment on both sides ("I'm bringing in most of the money and you're complaining about having to pay the cable bill." "You don't say it, but I know you think you're better than me because you have a degree.") These problems can only escalate at the higher executive level and the widening gap.

Good luck, my sisters.

_________________________________________________

P.S. Please tell me that is not Mariah Scarey on the cover on the left and that she is not now passing herself off as Black!

[ March 06, 2003, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: Wild i ]

Koffy Brown

03-06-2003, 11:21 AM

This article has been the topic of every talk radio station here...

divide and conquer...and it's working

Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand

03-06-2003, 01:10 PM

Very Interesting and not surprised. This sort of thing goes way back to the Willie Lynch speech (letter)to slave owners. The Black men are stripped of what they have, the Black women pick up the pieces become the stronger sex and through generations we have helped society believe that our men are not worth the time. The educational system deters alot of men as well. In school the black girls are encouraged to learn as much as they can and the Black boys learn how to be atheletes, just as someone stated in the article.

When in a relationship one should not be concerned about who hold what type of job or what. If some of us sistahs learned to keep that under wraps for the most intimate moments, then some men won't feel intimidated.

All I am saying is get to know each other first before telling all the business. Stop trying to get into his bank account and assets before getting to know him. Of course that goes for the men as well. It's all about basic dating.

We get too wrapped up into ourselves that we are more concerned about what can you do for me than how can we be down for each other.

Koffy Brown

03-06-2003, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
Very Interesting and not surprised. This sort of thing goes way back to the Willie Lynch speech (letter)to slave owners. The Black men are stripped of what they have, the Black women pick up the pieces become the stronger sex and through generations we have helped society believe that our men are not worth the time. The educational system deters alot of men as well. In school the black girls are encouraged to learn as much as they can and the Black boys learn how to be atheletes, just as someone stated in the article.

When in a relationship one should not be concerned about who hold what type of job or what. If some of us sistahs learned to keep that under wraps for the most intimate moments, then some men won't feel intimidated.

All I am saying is get to know each other first before telling all the business. Stop trying to get into his bank account and assets before getting to know him. Of course that goes for the men as well. It's all about basic dating.

We get too wrapped up into ourselves that we are more concerned about what can you do for me than how can we be down for each other.un huh...but society says.........that is what happened...

TAC

03-06-2003, 01:20 PM

Ya'll need to stop buying into the crap that the media puts b/4 u.

Me: Bachelor of Science Electrical Engineering Syracuse university

Doctor of Jurisprudence
Syracuse university.

My spouse:
Bachelor of Fine Arts
Syracuse university

Masters in Management
Northwestern University

I'm Blec', she's blec'!

I'll be back to run my "trap" (i.e., fingers :D ) I have a meeting to go to...

Peace
TAC

[ March 06, 2003, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: TAC ]

Koffy Brown

03-06-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by TAC:
Ya'll need to stop buying into the crap that the media puts b/4 u.

Me: Bachelor of Science Electrical Engineering Syracuse university

Docter of Jurisprudence
Syracuse university.

My spouse:
Bachelor of Fine Arts
Syracuse university

Masters in Management
Northwestern University

I'm Blec', she's blec'!

I'll be back to run my "trap" (i.e., fingers :D ) I have a meeting to go to...

Peace
TACthe point is how many other brothers were in your graduating class...the whole basis behind the study was that black women were climbing the corporate ladder faster than black men, pretty much leaving them behind and not giving them too many options to choose from when it comes to dating black men...

I think DiscoLady is right...but society through the media have us thinking that there are certain criteria's to being "the man" and "the woman" in the relationship. I see you married someone pretty much on the same educational level as you...

mhd

03-06-2003, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
Ya'll need to stop buying into the crap that the media puts b/4 u.

Me: Bachelor of Science Electrical Engineering Syracuse university

Docter of Jurisprudence
Syracuse university.

My spouse:
Bachelor of Fine Arts
Syracuse university

Masters in Management
Northwestern University

I'm Blec', she's blec'!

I'll be back to run my "trap" (i.e., fingers :D ) I have a meeting to go to...

Peace
TACthe point is how many other brothers were in your graduating class...the whole basis behind the study was that black women were climbing the corporate ladder faster than black men, pretty much leaving them behind and not giving them too many options to choose from when it comes to dating black men...

I think DiscoLady is right...but society through the media have us thinking that there are certain criteria's to being "the man" and "the woman" in the relationship. I see you married someone pretty much on the same educational level as you...[/QUOTE]trust me, there are a lot of black men in higher education, there are more black women, but the brothers are there. relationships succeed or fail for a whole lot of reasons

Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand

03-06-2003, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
Very Interesting and not surprised. This sort of thing goes way back to the Willie Lynch speech (letter)to slave owners. The Black men are stripped of what they have, the Black women pick up the pieces become the stronger sex and through generations we have helped society believe that our men are not worth the time. The educational system deters alot of men as well. In school the black girls are encouraged to learn as much as they can and the Black boys learn how to be atheletes, just as someone stated in the article.

When in a relationship one should not be concerned about who hold what type of job or what. If some of us sistahs learned to keep that under wraps for the most intimate moments, then some men won't feel intimidated.

All I am saying is get to know each other first before telling all the business. Stop trying to get into his bank account and assets before getting to know him. Of course that goes for the men as well. It's all about basic dating.

We get too wrapped up into ourselves that we are more concerned about what can you do for me than how can we be down for each other.un huh...but society says.........that is what happened...[/QUOTE]Yep alot us listen to society instead and want to be like our non-colored counterparts.

Koffy Brown

03-06-2003, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
Ya'll need to stop buying into the crap that the media puts b/4 u.

Me: Bachelor of Science Electrical Engineering Syracuse university

Docter of Jurisprudence
Syracuse university.

My spouse:
Bachelor of Fine Arts
Syracuse university

Masters in Management
Northwestern University

I'm Blec', she's blec'!

I'll be back to run my "trap" (i.e., fingers :D ) I have a meeting to go to...

Peace
TACthe point is how many other brothers were in your graduating class...the whole basis behind the study was that black women were climbing the corporate ladder faster than black men, pretty much leaving them behind and not giving them too many options to choose from when it comes to dating black men...

I think DiscoLady is right...but society through the media have us thinking that there are certain criteria's to being "the man" and "the woman" in the relationship. I see you married someone pretty much on the same educational level as you...[/QUOTE]trust me, there are a lot of black men in higher education, there are more black women, but the brothers are there. relationships succeed or fail for a whole lot of reasons[/QUOTE]not saying that there aren't black men there, but obviously not enough to equate to the black women that are there...this is real...and are they marrying black women...let's not go there again

mhd

03-06-2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
Ya'll need to stop buying into the crap that the media puts b/4 u.

Me: Bachelor of Science Electrical Engineering Syracuse university

Docter of Jurisprudence
Syracuse university.

My spouse:
Bachelor of Fine Arts
Syracuse university

Masters in Management
Northwestern University

I'm Blec', she's blec'!

I'll be back to run my "trap" (i.e., fingers :D ) I have a meeting to go to...

Peace
TACthe point is how many other brothers were in your graduating class...the whole basis behind the study was that black women were climbing the corporate ladder faster than black men, pretty much leaving them behind and not giving them too many options to choose from when it comes to dating black men...

I think DiscoLady is right...but society through the media have us thinking that there are certain criteria's to being "the man" and "the woman" in the relationship. I see you married someone pretty much on the same educational level as you...[/QUOTE]trust me, there are a lot of black men in higher education, there are more black women, but the brothers are there. relationships succeed or fail for a whole lot of reasons[/QUOTE]not saying that there aren't black men there, but obviously not enough to equate to the black women that are there...this is real...and are they marrying black women...let's not go there again[/QUOTE]a lot of them that want families are marrying black women, but the fact of the matter is brothers realize that they have a lot of options, and they delay marriage to play around.

but let me give you the flip side. many of the corporate women get married and drop out of the workplace and expect/demand that the brother provide the sole support for their lifestyle, which was previously based on two six figure incomes. some cats can handle, some can't

richierich

03-06-2003, 01:47 PM

I believe that when a sister meets a man that truely appeals to her womanhood all of that "I make more money than him", shit will go out or the window. How many of these upwardly mobile brothers actually have the character that a woman wants. I believe that the sisters just want a Good man. What he makes don't really mean shit if she Really likes him. I aint talking about a completely broke lazy do nothin' ass man but a brother who busts his ass everyday and makes her feel like she's really special and treats her with respect should have no problem. Hell every woman that I've been seriously involved with has been more formally educated and made way more cheddar than me. They didn't seem to have any problems dating me and vice versa. The subject of money was never an issue, she had hers and I had mine. I am no way intimidated by a sister that makes more money than me, because in the final scope of it she's a Woman and wants a Man to just Be a Man. If she makes 75k and I make only 25k then together we've got 100k, that's the way I see it and vice versa.
Peace

[ March 06, 2003, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: richierich ]

Koffy Brown

03-06-2003, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by richierich:
I believe that when a sister meets a man that truely appeals to her womanhood all of that I make more money than him shit will go out or the window. H ow many of these upwardly mobile brothers actually have the character that a woman wants. I believe that thae sisters just want a good man. What he makes don't really mean shit if she really likes him. I aint talking about a completely broke lazy do nothin' ass man but a brother who busts his ass everyday and makes her feel like she's really special and treats her with respect should have no problem. Hell every woman that I' ve been seriously involved in has been more formally educated and made way more cheddar than me. They didn't seem to have any problems dating me and vice versa. The sugject of money was never an issue she had hers and I had mine. I am no way intimidated by a sister trhat makes more money than me, because in the final scope of it she's a woman and wants a man to just be a man. If she makes 75k and I make only 25k then together we've got 100k, that's the way I see it and vice versa.pow dow....dere it is...

BROTHERS STEP UP TO THE PLATE

mhd

03-06-2003, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by richierich:
I believe that when a sister meets a man that truely appeals to her womanhood all of that I make more money than him shit will go out or the window. H ow many of these upwardly mobile brothers actually have the character that a woman wants. I believe that thae sisters just want a good man. What he makes don't really mean shit if she really likes him. I aint talking about a completely broke lazy do nothin' ass man but a brother who busts his ass everyday and makes her feel like she's really special and treats her with respect should have no problem. Hell every woman that I' ve been seriously involved in has been more formally educated and made way more cheddar than me. They didn't seem to have any problems dating me and vice versa. The sugject of money was never an issue she had hers and I had mine. I am no way intimidated by a sister trhat makes more money than me, because in the final scope of it she's a woman and wants a man to just be a man. If she makes 75k and I make only 25k then together we've got 100k, that's the way I see it and vice versa.exactly, a good brother is a good brother, period. too many women can't see beyond the money part and want to flex on that issue alone, to the detriment of the bigger picture

LEONARD REMIX RROY

03-06-2003, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by mynia:
I went out and picked up Newsweek because I heard about this cover story. I found it to be an interesting read and like someone said a bit sad at some points. What I really want to hear is the point of view of the black men. Not the one making it big in corporate america but the average brotha. The one that it seems that some of these ladies disqualified because of the potential of the drama before finding out first hand if he can handle not bringing home the bigger check. I also wondered if these women were hesitant of getting involved with a man that didn't bring home as much bacon for fear of being taken for the ride of their lives.You are one of the most unique & honest women that I have met in years. Your focus is on point and for that reason alone...men tend to do whatever they can for you. Some women can't buy or sex their way into a man mind, some can't command to respect that you recieve just from the conversation you engauge in.

You should write a book and help these sistas out.

TAC

03-06-2003, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:the point is how many other brothers were in your graduating class...the whole basis behind the study was that black women were climbing the corporate ladder faster than black men, pretty much leaving them behind and not giving them too many options to choose from when it comes to dating black men...

I think DiscoLady is right...but society through the media have us thinking that there are certain criteria's to being "the man" and "the woman" in the relationship. I see you married someone pretty much on the same educational level as you...[/QB]No the picture they painted was one of bleakness. I just don’t buy into that crap. Most of the females that I saw in school had suitors; a lot of them are now married with families. The problem is that some of the women are too damn picky.

Age brings wisdom. There are not many young women that realize they should be chasing the bookworms and unrefined brothers because they are the ones that grow up to be swans. Instead, they hang with the fast ones and the flash. Don’t tell me that is not true, because this still holds to this day. You pull up in the gear and the phat ride, and the women are all jumping like “dey coochie itch.” (Happened when I pulled up to valet parking at Dream down in DC.) Superficial b*llsh*t. That’s why I ditched the flash, and walk around looking like a hermit. Plus, we went business casual year round so that contributed to it somewhat. Therefore, you would not know me from Adam. I can say hello to someone on the street, and I get a turned up nose. I laugh…the joke is on them

But returning to my thoughts, and the subject at hand, it never fails. The bottom line is that there have always been fewer males than women in society. Nature designed it that way. You don’t see a pride of lions with a whole bunch of bulls do you? Also, we as humans have built in sociological population controls that we exercise. Did you know that whenever the male population expands beyond a certain level, wars usually break out to wipe out some of the men?

Regardless, one of the big problems that I see with women is their own personal expectations of what their “prince charming” must look like, be, and the like. If they were to toss all the idealisms, and get beneath the superficial sh*t, “they” most probably would increase their chances of finding the man that “they” so desperately crave.

Man, don’t get me started up in here. FWIW, my wife met me years before we went to grad school. The growth has come while we have been together. Funny thing is she thought I was one of those “Engineering Nerds” that she heard about. Well how about that, turns out I’m taking her on what can be considered the ride of her life!!

Peace
TAC

Wild i

03-06-2003, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />..No the picture they painted was one of bleakness. I just don’t buy into that crap. Most of the females that I saw in school had suitors; a lot of them are now married with families. The problem is that some of the women are too damn picky.

Age brings wisdom. There are not many young women that realize they should be chasing the bookworms and unrefined brothers because they are the ones that grow up to be swans. Instead, they hang with the fast ones and the flash. Don’t tell me that is not true, because this still holds to this day. You pull up in the gear and the phat ride, and the women are all jumping like “dey coochie itch.” (Happened when I pulled up to valet parking at Dream down in DC.) Superficial b*llsh*t. That’s why I ditched the flash, and walk around looking like a hermit. Plus, we went business casual year round so that contributed to it somewhat. Therefore, you would not know me from Adam. I can say hello to someone on the street, and I get a turned up nose. I laugh…the joke is on them

But returning to my thoughts, and the subject at hand, it never fails. The bottom line is that there have always been fewer males than women in society. Nature designed it that way. You don’t see a pride of lions with a whole bunch of bulls do you? Also, we as humans have built in sociological population controls that we exercise. Did you know that whenever the male population expands beyond a certain level, wars usually break out to wipe out some of the men?

Regardless, one of the big problems that I see with women is their own personal expectations of what their “prince charming” must look like, be, and the like. If they were to toss all the idealisms, and get beneath the superficial sh*t, “they” most probably would increase their chances of finding the man that “they” so desperately crave.

Man, don’t get me started up in here. FWIW, my wife met me years before we went to grad school. The growth has come while we have been together. Funny thing is she thought I was one of those “Engineering Nerds” that she heard about. Well how about that, turns out I’m taking her on what can be considered the ride of her life!!

Peace
TAC[/QB][/QUOTE]TAC, everything you said can be equally applied to men. Having always been a plain Jane and "Big boned," I can tell you that the same thing exists on the other side of the coin. Many, many men are looking for trophy wives, just as many women are looking for trophy husbands. This applies to any economic level. But as you say, with age comes wisdom and as we grow older we tend to consider the inside more important than the trappings.

You also raised the point that women always outnumber men. If you add to that imbalance a society that undervalues Black men and disportionately imprisons them (either inside jail or in a socio-economic quagmire), and you're left with a very bleak picture for the sister who strives for success and wants to share it with a peer.

You and your wife are very fortunate to have found each other. I truly hope your marriage lasts forever. But if, God forbid, it doesn't, I can almost guarantee that she will have a more difficult time finding someone new than you (this, based solely on proportions of equals, not taking into consideration your ugly mug and body odor graemlins/remybussi.gif ). Okay, a little joke...

But seriously, I have witnessed many occasions where a brother is attracted to a successful sister, both by romantic thoughts and by her level of success (I didn't say that well, but you know what I mean), then no sooner do they get involved than he starts chipping away at her foundation ("Aw Baby, you don't have to go to class today. You got time to hand in that paper. Come back to bed." or "Damn, Baby, you care more about that job than about us!" and such.) because they feel threatened by her success.

The problem is real, and getting more realy over time. Better we should air it, discuss it and find some solutions (even if only at the individual level) than let it fester and destroy our community, even as we try to move on up.

dj paradigm

03-06-2003, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
This article has been the topic of every talk radio station here...

divide and conquer...and it's workingWhat's amazing about this, is that we allow a white publication to shape the dialogue in the Black community. Haki Madhubuti's work is never discussed and will never be published in NEWSWEEK, but prop up the works of any middle of the road Negro, and it becomes a discussion in the Black community.

Fletch

03-06-2003, 07:06 PM

First of all, my apologies to Leslie if she originally started a thread on this.

Second, I would hope that we as Black folk give each other the support we need. And Lord knows, Black men need it. I had went through an emotional breakup which took two years to clear my head of. When I did clear my head, I realised that the lady I dated set unrealistic expectations. Of course, I had my faults, too, but if we are not gonna build each other up and encourage, then there are gonna be problems.

I would hope that I am not laughed at for my "non-Black" hobbies such as running (though the Brooklyn streets), cooking, reading, jazz, house and college basketball. I hope I am not ridiculed for pursuing my masters degree after a decade of complacency (haven't been accepted, yet, but I have faith!).

I am thankful for the positive brothers on this board such as Gman (follow the leader), TAC (fellow alum), and mhd (what's a Hoya? :D ). And all of the positive sistas such as Discolady, Ashaki, Girlfriday, etc. Keep the love and keep on building. As a result, the "gap" (if there is one) will definitely close. Hope this makes sense. Peace.

Leslie

03-06-2003, 07:49 PM

I suppose last week folks were not ready to discuss this issue - this week they are its cool enniod23.

mhd

03-06-2003, 07:52 PM

leslie, i'm dying to hear your input, a lot of issues raised here, peace, mark

Leslie

03-06-2003, 07:52 PM

I suppose last week folks were not ready to discuss this issue - this week they are its cool enniod23.

dj paradigm

03-06-2003, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by einnod23:
First of all, my apologies to Leslie if she originally started a thread on this.

Second, I would hope that we as Black folk give each other the support we need. And Lord knows, Black men need it. I had went through an emotional breakup which took two years to clear my head of. When I did clear my head, I realised that the lady I dated set unrealistic expectations. Of course, I had my faults, too, but if we are not gonna build each other up and encourage, then there are gonna be problems.

I would hope that I am not laughed at for my "non-Black" hobbies such as running (though the Brooklyn streets), cooking, reading, jazz, house and college basketball. I hope I am not ridiculed for pursuing my masters degree after a decade of complacency (haven't been accepted, yet, but I have faith!).

I am thankful for the positive brothers on this board such as Gman (follow the leader), TAC (fellow alum), and mhd (what's a Hoya? :D ). And all of the positive sistas such as Discolady, Ashaki, Girlfriday, etc. Keep the love and keep on building. As a result, the "gap" (if there is one) will definitely close. Hope this makes sense. Peace.Hey!...So you're back into pocketbook and chain snatching in the hood again..I thought you gave that up in the 70s...It's been a while since I've seen a brother running in the hood with a chain..... graemlins/all_coholic.gif

Leslie

03-06-2003, 08:26 PM

Double posts! AR15firing.gif

On the one hand I am annoyed by the article, on the other hand I know many things in it to be true for me and many of my friends. Quite a few of my girls are married and have families and quite a few are single. I get asked all the time why I'm not married (for the record this question annoys me and I do not like getting asked, we all have our pet peeves, this is seriously one of mine) - there are a variety of reasons and while I can argue the points pro or con with regard to the article - ultimately one has to take a certain amount of personal responsibility for where they are and not get caught up in the "group think" of statistics and the like.
Big Brotha TAC ( ;) ) and Ashaki both had good points. I can only speak for my personal experiences and those of my sistafriends and a lot of what both of them had to say was true. It's hard finding someone you "gel" with and potentially want to spend the rest of your life with. Getting back on the topic of the article itself the underlying tone of the article was negative regardless of how Ellis Cose tried to end it on an optimistic note. I have read other pieces of his and I am not sure if this is a case of one's personal agenda being addressed or what. Ya know one can be down with the cause so to speak but still have a problems with the very one you supposed to be down with. I think this article turned into a wasted opportunity to show off the many successful pairings that exist between black men and women on all economic levels. There are just as many good relationships in the hood as there are on the suburbs and vice versa regardless of what the media chooses to portray. Therefore even though initially the article did not leave me warm and fuzzy, one must consider the source and the potential for there to be an "agenda" to be pushed. I choose to give the author the benefit of the doubt, but have a critical eye all the same.

(Im)poster

03-06-2003, 08:40 PM

I'm adding my two cents late, as usual. I want to bring up the point MHD made, that black women making more or being "better" educated than black men is nothing new. With my own parents, my mother was a college-educated teacher and my father an auto mechanic. My mother quit working to raise us and it was never an issue in our household that she had graduated from college and he went to trade school. My father worked two jobs for most of his life to support us and the only time my sister and I ever had with him was on his off day -- Sunday, or when we went south on our annual family vacation. My father did not hide well the fact that he had women on the side, but he was a good provider, he was wise with his money, he did not drink, he tried to show us things, sent us to private schools and to college. There aren't many men these days who are responsible like my father was. I'm happy though, to know there are some of them out there and to count them among my closest friends.

I could not really relate to the Newsweek article because I never bought into the idea that I had to be with someone who also went to college. I never wanted to get married because I was affected by my father's obvious infidelity. Plus, my mother was always urging us to "be able to support yourself so you don't have to rely on a man." I never expected to rely on a man financially, and I never have.

But I have always NEEDED a man, a black man.
When I was in collge, I used to date engineers and the going-places types, but I was usually turned off by the "I-got-choices" mentality or bourgeois ways. More importantly, I was focused on MY career. I also found that far too many college-educated brothers had no conversation AT ALL, they were just recycling textbook topics that they had memorized but never really thought about. I am one who is excited by ideas, attracted to off-beat type who challenges conventional mores. A man bold enough to love house in a hip-hop world. :D

So I'm different in that way, too. Money, flash, degrees, job titles -- those things mean nothing to me. But I'm not taking care of a man, either. So, yes, I have to agree with TAC that a lot of women who need a man who makes what they make and is equally "educated" are eliminating potential mates. I know too many of them who spend their weekends together griping about being alone. I don't feel sad for them either. We are all free to make choices and to live with them.

(Im)poster

03-06-2003, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by Leslie:
I think this article turned into a wasted opportunity to show off the many successful pairings that exist between black men and women on all economic levels. There are just as many good relationships in the hood as there are on the suburbs and vice versa regardless of what the media chooses to portray. I'm glad you make this point because I forgot to say that I always resent this sort of article. To me, they carry a subtle warning to women (not just black women) to not be too ambitious lest you end up successful, but unmarried and alone. The failure to highlight enduring relationships -- which would give people hope -- lets folks hold onto the gloom and doom thinking. (That's why the BBP need to read Ebony and Jet sometimes. :D ) Too many women are sitting around sulking and believing they will never find anyone because they buy into "the ratio," which is just more BS if you ask me. Black women don't have to have a black man, don't have to have a man who is our age or older (remember that they tend die first, anyway, girls), don't have to have an equally educated man, don't have to have an American man... There ARE options, it's just what one will choose.

Bold Soul

03-07-2003, 01:02 AM

The article indicated that educated Black women have some very perverse notions of value thrust upon them, IMO. And very inaccurate levels of representation, as in the featured discussion panel - Beyonce Knowles, Star Jones, Foxy Brown, etc...? Not a representative sampling of the African-American population. Not hardly.

A more scientific analysis could have come from a beauty shop.

One cannot share with their love AND protect what they have at the same time. Protecting themselves from being cheated, they cheat their relationships of a wholehearted willingness to build and maintain trust and committment. Who could be to blame for that?

And the bottom line - when is it going to become unacceptable to characterize all people of a certain ethnic background with blanket generalities. I'm sick of that shit.

Very unbalanced reporting from Newsweek on that one.

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by dj paradigm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
This article has been the topic of every talk radio station here...

divide and conquer...and it's workingWhat's amazing about this, is that we allow a white publication to shape the dialogue in the Black community. Haki Madhubuti's work is never discussed and will never be published in NEWSWEEK, but prop up the works of any middle of the road Negro, and it becomes a discussion in the Black community.[/QUOTE]If every Black boy had to read "Black Man"...as a coming of age kind of thing...damn...unstoppable

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 07:27 AM

Wild i

03-07-2003, 07:50 AM

You know, it's amazing what 2 people can do when they're pulling in the same direction, regardless of their economic circumstances. I think that's more important than being on the same educational or financial par. There's no doubt it helps to be somewhat equal in those respects, but I think the success or failure of a relationship really lies, in large part, on the likemindedness of the parties involved.

One of the smartest men I've ever know refused to go to college, so the degree proves nothing in terms of intelligence.

My parents were a "traditional working class couple." I think they accomplished amazing things with 5 kids, but I know there are many areas in which their thinking was worlds apart and kept them from accomplishing a whole lot more.

The biggest problem I've ever had in any relationship is that we did not agree on the basics. For example, I am big believer in clean living: clean body, clean home, clean car. It's difficult for me to concentrate in clutter. If my mate is home all day and I come home to a diry house, I get angry. If it keeps happening even after many discussions, resentment starts to build. If we have one car and I have to clean it out after every time my mate drives it... more resentment. Soon you start having conversations like this: "Dammit, I pay all the bills, I pay for the car and the insurance, is it too much to ask that you keep the house clean or that you take you garbage out of the car?" The response: "Oh, so now I'm your maid just because you make more money than me?" blah, blah blah.

Or you can reverse it. Say the person who makes less money is the neat freak, "I am not cleaning up after you just because you pay most of the bills. I am your spouse, not your maid."

This is just an example. Frequently when people are not pulling together on the basics, money gets dragged in as the issue when it really is not the issue at all.

By the way, I don't think this is a man/woman issue. It happens in all types of relationships. Parents who are both proud and resentful or perhaps jealous of their kids because they've far surpassed their own level of success; friends who can no longer hang together because one is now rich while the other is struggling. I've seen it in a variety of scenarios.

Good chat, though.

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by Wild i:
You know, it's amazing what 2 people can do when they're pulling in the same direction, regardless of their economic circumstances. I think that's more important than being on the same educational or financial par. There's no doubt it helps to be somewhat equal in those respects, but I think the success or failure of a relationship really lies, in large part, on the likemindedness of the parties involved.

One of the smartest men I've ever know refused to go to college, so the degree proves nothing in terms of intelligence.

My parents were a "traditional working class couple." I think they accomplished amazing things with 5 kids, but I know there are many areas in which their thinking was worlds apart and kept them from accomplishing a whole lot more.

The biggest problem I've ever had in any relationship is that we did not agree on the basics. For example, I am big believer in clean living: clean body, clean home, clean car. It's difficult for me to concentrate in clutter. If my mate is home all day and I come home to a diry house, I get angry. If it keeps happening even after many discussions, resentment starts to build. If we have one car and I have to clean it out after every time my mate drives it... more resentment. Soon you start having conversations like this: "Dammit, I pay all the bills, I pay for the car and the insurance, is it too much to ask that you keep the house clean or that you take you garbage out of the car?" The response: "Oh, so now I'm your maid just because you make more money than me?" blah, blah blah.

Or you can reverse it. Say the person who makes less money is the neat freak, "I am not cleaning up after you just because you pay most of the bills. I am your spouse, not your maid."

This is just an example. Frequently when people are not pulling together on the basics, money gets dragged in as the issue when it really is not the issue at all.

By the way, I don't think this is a man/woman issue. It happens in all types of relationships. Parents who are both proud and resentful or perhaps jealous of their kids because they've far surpassed their own level of success; friends who can no longer hang together because one is now rich while the other is struggling. I've seen it in a variety of scenarios.

Good chat, though.one of the smartest men I know graemlins/1luvu.gif is college educated, but that's not the education that makes him a force to be reckoned with, it's the self learned knowledge that no school wants to teach black men/women and he shares it...that's where we need to put our energies...jmo

TAC

03-07-2003, 10:01 AM

Can I add? I think the article is rubbish, utter rubbish. Without citing the specific individuals, and while alluding to points made by others, the whole notion that educated women are doomed to be by themselves is selling ‘us’ the black community short.

All I have known is men who look after their families and do the right think. It is a recent experience of mine to see “black men” that do not have the inbreed instincts to look out for their families. In other parts of the black world, we as a people are strong, yes strong indeed. I say this because to be black is to be more than simply American and call yourself “African American.” In truth, I am not even “African American.” That’s not a diss, but it is simply a rejection of the attempt of the majority powers to sweep all of US, and I say US, black people into one nice bundle. The term colored was/is a great term because it said aptly that we black people are colorful, and are from all over the world. FWIW, over the years, I have yet to see one black woman who wanted to get married who eventually did not.

The article provided no relationships between successful black men and black women as a counter balance. What about Oprah and Stedman? What about Ann Fudge (former CEO of Maxwell house) and her husband? Ann got there with the help and support of him. She'll tell you so in a minute. There are others, too numerous to mention. I mean come on, look around. There are numerous examples of black people who are together and thriving, as well as not thriving.

Moving along…..

The barber shop! Yes indeed, if you want to get a true cross section of the black community, go into our barbershops, and our beauty parlors for that matter.

If you want to hook up with someone, you can hook up with someone. If you believe you are going to be by yourself, then you will be by yourself. These things are sort of self full filling. Ya get it?

Wild I, I ain't ugly.

To fellow SU alumn over in the BK coner of the room - Jazz, running, House - I ain't buying into the notion that these are not black things. Rethink that one please.

Big sister LESLIE, Dana is my daughter's name, so there. You need to stop pulling my card like that!! ;)

I gotta get some work done…

Peace
TAC

[ March 07, 2003, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: TAC ]

lola desire

03-07-2003, 10:14 AM

as kenspank says: the problem is not the problem. although i always mention this, people always want to debate the details, they sypmtoms, without looking at the root cause of the surface problems.

one young woman in the article talked about the black girls at her high school being encouraged to do well academically and take on leadership positions, while the black boys were encouraged to excel athletically. this is only one example of how we treat female and male children differently.

so often we protect and shape the girls, provide for and protect the girls... so often we emotionally abandon the boys for fear they might turn out too soft, mama's boys, or the worst possibility of all: gay. as if gayness was caused by too much love. it's no wonder we take different paths and turn out diffrently.

take a closer look.

TAC

03-07-2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by lola desire:
one young woman in the article talked about the black girls at her high school being encouraged to do well academically and take on leadership positions, while the black boys were encouraged to excel athletically. this is only one example of how we treat female and male children differently.

so often we protect and shape the girls, provide for and protect the girls... so often we emotionally abandon the boys for fear they might turn out too soft, mama's boys, or the worst possibility of all: gay. as if gayness was caused by too much love. it's no wonder we take different paths and turn out diffrently.Rubbish. These are gernalizations. All of what we are syaing is, really. What you've pu forth is but one example, and now it applies to everyone!? I have friends who are bookworms, street smart, and can't play sports for sh*t, but will bus your a** in a second!!!! All of them were encouraged to pursue vocations of the mind. What the frigg?

Its like, I stand on the edge of a basketball court, and all the white guys want me on their team. Then they get pissed when I they find out I have three left elbows and a trench foot. Believe me, it has happened to me.

ngeso

03-07-2003, 10:28 AM

Its like, I stand on the edge of a basketball court, and all the white guys want me on their team. Then they get pissed when I they find out I have three left elbows and a trench foot. Believe me, it has happened to me.[/QB]HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! daaaaaamn, you too, huh? :D

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by lola desire:
as kenspank says: the problem is not the problem. although i always mention this, people always want to debate the details, they sypmtoms, without looking at the root cause of the surface problems.

one young woman in the article talked about the black girls at her high school being encouraged to do well academically and take on leadership positions, while the black boys were encouraged to excel athletically. this is only one example of how we treat female and male children differently.

so often we protect and shape the girls, provide for and protect the girls... so often we emotionally abandon the boys for fear they might turn out too soft, mama's boys, or the worst possibility of all: gay. as if gayness was caused by too much love. it's no wonder we take different paths and turn out diffrently.

take a closer look.It is no secret that we tend to raise our daughters and love our sons...and with this said this could be why another survey was done and concluded that Black Women are the last to marry.

Leslie

03-07-2003, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by lola desire:
as kenspank says: the problem is not the problem. although i always mention this, people always want to debate the details, they sypmtoms, without looking at the root cause of the surface problems.

one young woman in the article talked about the black girls at her high school being encouraged to do well academically and take on leadership positions, while the black boys were encouraged to excel athletically. this is only one example of how we treat female and male children differently.

so often we protect and shape the girls, provide for and protect the girls... so often we emotionally abandon the boys for fear they might turn out too soft, mama's boys, or the worst possibility of all: gay. as if gayness was caused by too much love. it's no wonder we take different paths and turn out diffrently.

take a closer look.I've read this over 4 times and I can't say that I agree completely - I think too many generalizations are being made - not every boy is raised like this and not every girl is raised like that either. I think this is almost buying into some of what is "put out" by not even whites but people of color. We do ourselves a disservice by giving many of these generalizations creditbility by continuing to write about them as well as go on the circuit and talk about them. No wonder....

lola desire

03-07-2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lola desire:
one young woman in the article talked about the black girls at her high school being encouraged to do well academically and take on leadership positions, while the black boys were encouraged to excel athletically. this is only one example of how we treat female and male children differently.

so often we protect and shape the girls, provide for and protect the girls... so often we emotionally abandon the boys for fear they might turn out too soft, mama's boys, or the worst possibility of all: gay. as if gayness was caused by too much love. it's no wonder we take different paths and turn out diffrently.Rubbish. These are gernalizations. All of what we are syaing is, really. What you've pu forth is but one example, and now it applies to everyone!? I have friends who are bookworms, street smart, and can't play sports for sh*t, but will bus your a** in a second!!!! All of them were encouraged to pursue vocations of the mind. What the frigg?

Its like, I stand on the edge of a basketball court, and all the white guys want me on their team. Then they get pissed when I they find out I have three left elbows and a trench foot. Believe me, it has happened to me.[/QUOTE]you are taking one detail of what i said and running with it. i made a generalization. this is true.

but i also mentioned that we tend to raise our daughters differently than our sons. this was my main point. i feel like this is one of the main reasons that we see disparities between the genders among black people.

beyond that i made a point about attacking the surface issues avoiding not looking at the root cause. by attacking a single example i used for support, your actions illustrate my point perfectly.

take a closer look.

lola desire

03-07-2003, 10:54 AM

i don't think any one of us can explain what's wrong with our community in a few paragraphs on a message board. i picked one issue to talk about out of the whole article, but i never said that it was the only issue we face. the point i picked up on is one that i deal with myself. that's why i talked about it.

i didn't talk about lack of good men because i have one. it isn't as immediate an issue for me but i could talk about my view on that too. i could talk about why i think the things we concider to be "success" are nothing but silly ass trinkets. but that wasn't part of the article.

we could all talk about a lot of things, but there isn't enough memory on deephouspage to really get at the root issues, and still, we aren't getting at them. let's just attack peoples argument styles.

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 10:59 AM

[ March 07, 2003, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lola desire:
as kenspank says: the problem is not the problem. although i always mention this, people always want to debate the details, they sypmtoms, without looking at the root cause of the surface problems.

one young woman in the article talked about the black girls at her high school being encouraged to do well academically and take on leadership positions, while the black boys were encouraged to excel athletically. this is only one example of how we treat female and male children differently.

so often we protect and shape the girls, provide for and protect the girls... so often we emotionally abandon the boys for fear they might turn out too soft, mama's boys, or the worst possibility of all: gay. as if gayness was caused by too much love. it's no wonder we take different paths and turn out diffrently.

take a closer look.I've read this over 4 times and I can't say that I agree completely - I think too many generalizations are being made - not every boy is raised like this and not every girl is raised like that either. I think this is almost buying into some of what is "put out" by not even whites but people of color. We do ourselves a disservice by giving many of these generalizations creditbility by continuing to write about them as well as go on the circuit and talk about them. No wonder....[/QUOTE]generalizations have to be made until we can get some hard core statistics to support the arguements being made. unfortunately there are far too many single black mothers and single black women. That's fact not fiction. In every inner city I've been to in America...Black people pretty much live the same way. Nobody is saying that there aren't good black men who take care of their families, or educated black men beyond high school...blah blah blah...what I am saying and what this article is saying is that the number of black women who are making it in corporate america and educating themselves beyond high school is outnumbering black men and they are having an increasing more difficult time find a black mate...that's what I got from it...and believe it or not there is truth to it...we need to take the blinders off...and deal with what's real. I know for some of you what's real for others isn't real for you..but that doesn't make their/our reality obsolete..the american dream just didn't work for all...[/QUOTE]

lola desire

03-07-2003, 11:01 AM

ashaki,

thanks sis.

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by lola desire:
ashaki,

thanks sis.no problem sis

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lola desire:
ashaki,

thanks sis.no problem sis[/QUOTE]now I'm on a roll....and I hope that all my highly educated brotha's and sistah's who can vacation in Martha's Vineyard are giving back to the communities, because if you were you would have a clue as to what's going on...topics like this wouldn't be a shocker...

Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand

03-07-2003, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lola desire:
as kenspank says: the problem is not the problem. although i always mention this, people always want to debate the details, they sypmtoms, without looking at the root cause of the surface problems.

one young woman in the article talked about the black girls at her high school being encouraged to do well academically and take on leadership positions, while the black boys were encouraged to excel athletically. this is only one example of how we treat female and male children differently.

so often we protect and shape the girls, provide for and protect the girls... so often we emotionally abandon the boys for fear they might turn out too soft, mama's boys, or the worst possibility of all: gay. as if gayness was caused by too much love. it's no wonder we take different paths and turn out diffrently.

take a closer look.I've read this over 4 times and I can't say that I agree completely - I think too many generalizations are being made - not every boy is raised like this and not every girl is raised like that either. I think this is almost buying into some of what is "put out" by not even whites but people of color. We do ourselves a disservice by giving many of these generalizations creditbility by continuing to write about them as well as go on the circuit and talk about them. No wonder....[/QUOTE]generalizations have to be made until we can get some hard core statistics to support the arguements being made. unfortunately there are far too many single black mothers and single black women. That's fact not fiction. In every inner city I've been to in America...Black people pretty much live the same way. Nobody is saying that there aren't good black men who take care of their families, or educated black men beyond high school...blah blah blah...what I am saying and what this article is saying is that the number of black women who are making it in corporate america and educating themselves beyond high school is outnumbering black men and they are having an increasing more difficult time find a black mate...that's what I got from it...and believe it or not there is truth to it...we need to take the blinders off...and deal with what's real...[/QUOTE]Some of "us" black women need to stop being bag ladies. Yes, there are alot of issues that we all face and need to pay more attention to the real facts. Once we realize how to preserve ourselves, it will not be difficult to find a black mate. We also need to take responsibility for our actions. I know of alot of single women that had babies for hopes of a future husband and good father. When that was shot to hell, they were left holding the baby and battling in child support court. I also know women that was promised the world and was let down.

So once we realize that we need to know and love ourselves our mate will come along to give us the world. You attract what you are. If you think you are not worthy you will have someone as unworthy as you. Treat yourself as royalty (without prejudice) and you will have your King.

Lola I am with you about having your good man ;)

Leslie

03-07-2003, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
what I am saying and what this article is saying is that the number of black women who are making it in corporate america and educating themselves beyond high school is outnumbering black men and they are having an increasing more difficult time find a black mate...that's what I got from it...and believe it or not there is truth to it...we need to take the blinders off...and deal with what's real. I know for some of you what's real for others isn't real for you..but that doesn't make their/our reality obsolete..the american dream just didn't work for all...[/qb][/QB][/QUOTE]

I'm not disagreeing with you in entirety, in fact in my original response I agree with most of what you have said. The problem I have with the article is the message it sends - if thus is so true do black women need to see it on the cover of a national magazine? If in fact we do look closer, I have to think that this almost looks like it ( as my big brotha TAC pointed to) is selling us short. My issue is, will the average sista who reads the article become inspired to open up their options (even within the black community for that matter) or will they be defeated by what they wrote and succumb to the notion that they will have to either live alone or "share" the men they choose to deal with (as we have touched upon in other threads).

TAC

03-07-2003, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by lola desire:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lola desire:
one young woman in the article talked about the black girls at her high school being encouraged to do well academically and take on leadership positions, while the black boys were encouraged to excel athletically. this is only one example of how we treat female and male children differently.

so often we protect and shape the girls, provide for and protect the girls... so often we emotionally abandon the boys for fear they might turn out too soft, mama's boys, or the worst possibility of all: gay. as if gayness was caused by too much love. it's no wonder we take different paths and turn out diffrently.Rubbish. These are generalizations. All of what we are saying is, really. What you've pu forth is but one example, and now it applies to everyone!? I have friends who are bookworms, street smart, and can't play sports for sh*t, but will bus your a** in a second!!!! All of them were encouraged to pursue vocations of the mind. What the frigg?

Its like, I stand on the edge of a basketball court, and all the white guys want me on their team. Then they get pissed when I they find out I have three left elbows and a trench foot. Believe me, it has happened to me.[/QUOTE]you are taking one detail of what i said and running with it. i made a generalization. this is true.

but i also mentioned that we tend to raise our daughters differently than our sons. this was my main point. i feel like this is one of the main reasons that we see disparities between the genders among black people.

beyond that i made a point about attacking the surface issues avoiding not looking at the root cause. by attacking a single example i used for support, your actions illustrate my point perfectly.

take a closer look.[/QUOTE]Uhm, I am looking closely, and I think I took only what you gave me and kept it right where it was.

Soften up your conclusions there, and I might be willing to back up a little. You say "we". Which we are you referring too? You then say "or the worst possibility of all: gay." I think there are a lot worse things that a son can turn out to be other than gay! And what about the girls who wind up to be Lesbians? Can you give me an answer, here?

I've got three sisters. My middle sister and I were raised the same, as far as I remember. I played soccer, she played soccer, as well as all the other "boy" sports of the time. In fact, she was better than me at most sports when we were younger. She cuffed me, I cuffed her a** back. No matter, my point here really is that I was babied and nurtured to the point where I could have been considered soft and frai, and se was not. Even now, I get grief from women about my relationship with my mother (mama's boy is the term). You know what my response is "HELL YEA. JEALOUSY IS A BITCH, AIN'T IT!?" But in the end, it helped me to realize my potential. At the end, we both turned out okay.

So Leslie is right, in that what you say cuts both ways. Think about it.

And really this is not about how the boys and girls are raised. Its about educated (black) women finding mates! Let's stay the course here.

Peace
TAC

Brut by Faberge

03-07-2003, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
[/qb]If every Black boy had to read "Black Man"...as a coming of age kind of thing...damn...unstoppable[/QB][/QUOTE]

what is "black man"? do you mean "black boy"? r. wright?

Leslie

03-07-2003, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:

thanks sis.[/qb]no problem sis[/qb][/QUOTE]now I'm on a roll....and I hope that all my highly educated brotha's and sistah's who can vacation in Martha's Vineyard are giving back to the communities, because if you were you would have a clue as to what's going on...topics like this wouldn't be a shocker...[/QB][/QUOTE]

Well I suppose that you would have to get to know some of these people to find out for yourself - are these people any less black to you, or is it because they have money they no longer understand what the struggle is all about? - I am very puzzled by this particular comment of yours.

Leslie

03-07-2003, 11:19 AM

In fact now I am on a roll - what, Ashaki, make you think that this issue is "shocking" to these women that you allude to??

mhd

03-07-2003, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lola desire:
ashaki,

thanks sis.no problem sis[/QUOTE]now I'm on a roll....and I hope that all my highly educated brotha's and sistah's who can vacation in Martha's Vineyard are giving back to the communities, because if you were you would have a clue as to what's going on...topics like this wouldn't be a shocker...[/QUOTE]this is nonsense, lets stay on course

mhd

03-07-2003, 11:22 AM

lets say for a moment that the corporate sisters can't find mates, why?

lola desire

03-07-2003, 11:28 AM

tac,

i'm not going to address your messages point by point. when i make a generalization i'm not talking about you. as a matter of fact i'm not even talking about me. i have a brother too. we had different issues growing up than the ones i'm talking about here. but that wasn't the topic of the article.

i'm talking about things i've witnessed and figures i've seen, then i said that things tended to be a certain way, in my own perception. if i'm wrong, disagree with me. fine. as a matter of fact, i'm not even important. what i say isn't important. so forget about me.

instead, let's also talk about what YOU think is wrong with our community. let's talk about how WE can improve the situation.

TAC

03-07-2003, 11:30 AM

?

[ March 07, 2003, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: TAC ]

Leslie

03-07-2003, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by mhd:
lets say for a moment that the corporate sisters can't find mates, why?When you work in an enviornment such as corporate amerikka, to survive and get yours you have to be strong - this comes from experience - and we all know gaining experience can sometimes be painful (in more ways than one) - perhaps some men are turned off by the $ figure some of these ladies bring home - perhaps some of these ladies have a less than pleasant attitude about how much they make and don't necessarily know how to "tone it down" so those men that do get easily offended are not. mhd its a double edged sword. As I spoke about in my original post, one has to take certain amount of personal responsibility at to why they are where they are with resepct to having or not having a mate. Many a corporate sista who is brining in 6 figures before bonus still choose to spend time with men that are less than complimentary (I know cause I have seen a few aquantances do it - I say if this person where written in a contract or numbers in a deal they'd know this fool was not worth the time or effort). There are a myriad of reasons I suppose - not sure if I answered the question, but there it is....

mhd

03-07-2003, 11:41 AM

the thing that is curious to me is the recipe for love doesn't change just because you are making loot, or does it? you have the same problems finding committed mates at all strata of our community. i've always felt that successful women did not open up their options enough and failed to see good brothers just because of the guys income, which is a recipe for loneliness. the most they will compromise is to get a brother with education but no real paper. but the guy with no college, and everything else in order, gets no shot.

and fwiw, i know ellis cose, i've known his wife for 20+ years

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lola desire:
as kenspank says: the problem is not the problem. although i always mention this, people always want to debate the details, they sypmtoms, without looking at the root cause of the surface problems.

one young woman in the article talked about the black girls at her high school being encouraged to do well academically and take on leadership positions, while the black boys were encouraged to excel athletically. this is only one example of how we treat female and male children differently.

so often we protect and shape the girls, provide for and protect the girls... so often we emotionally abandon the boys for fear they might turn out too soft, mama's boys, or the worst possibility of all: gay. as if gayness was caused by too much love. it's no wonder we take different paths and turn out diffrently.

take a closer look.I've read this over 4 times and I can't say that I agree completely - I think too many generalizations are being made - not every boy is raised like this and not every girl is raised like that either. I think this is almost buying into some of what is "put out" by not even whites but people of color. We do ourselves a disservice by giving many of these generalizations creditbility by continuing to write about them as well as go on the circuit and talk about them. No wonder....[/QUOTE]generalizations have to be made until we can get some hard core statistics to support the arguements being made. unfortunately there are far too many single black mothers and single black women. That's fact not fiction. In every inner city I've been to in America...Black people pretty much live the same way. Nobody is saying that there aren't good black men who take care of their families, or educated black men beyond high school...blah blah blah...what I am saying and what this article is saying is that the number of black women who are making it in corporate america and educating themselves beyond high school is outnumbering black men and they are having an increasing more difficult time find a black mate...that's what I got from it...and believe it or not there is truth to it...we need to take the blinders off...and deal with what's real...[/QUOTE]Some of "us" black women need to stop being bag ladies. Yes, there are alot of issues that we all face and need to pay more attention to the real facts. Once we realize how to preserve ourselves, it will not be difficult to find a black mate. We also need to take responsibility for our actions. I know of alot of single women that had babies for hopes of a future husband and good father. When that was shot to hell, they were left holding the baby and battling in child support court. I also know women that was promised the world and was let down.

So once we realize that we need to know and love ourselves our mate will come along to give us the world. You attract what you are. If you think you are not worthy you will have someone as unworthy as you. Treat yourself as royalty (without prejudice) and you will have your King.

Lola I am with you about having your good man ;) [/QUOTE]I agree with you...we NEED to let go...we NEED to do alot of things...and I'm going to give us a little more credit by saying that if letting go was that easy, we would have done so generations ago...I can let go you, can let go...but there are so many of us who needs help in realizing this...

mhd

03-07-2003, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lola desire:
ashaki,

thanks sis.no problem sis[/QUOTE]now I'm on a roll....and I hope that all my highly educated brotha's and sistah's who can vacation in Martha's Vineyard are giving back to the communities, because if you were you would have a clue as to what's going on...topics like this wouldn't be a shocker...[/QUOTE]lets stay on course[/QUOTE]ashaki, sorry about that

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Leslie:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
what I am saying and what this article is saying is that the number of black women who are making it in corporate america and educating themselves beyond high school is outnumbering black men and they are having an increasing more difficult time find a black mate...that's what I got from it...and believe it or not there is truth to it...we need to take the blinders off...and deal with what's real. I know for some of you what's real for others isn't real for you..but that doesn't make their/our reality obsolete..the american dream just didn't work for all...[/QB][/QUOTE]I'm not disagreeing with you in entirety, in fact in my original response I agree with most of what you have said. The problem I have with the article is the message it sends - if thus is so true do black women need to see it on the cover of a national magazine? If in fact we do look closer, I have to think that this almost looks like it ( as my big brotha TAC pointed to) is selling us short. My issue is, will the average sista who reads the article become inspired to open up their options (even within the black community for that matter) or will they be defeated by what they wrote and succumb to the notion that they will have to either live alone or "share" the men they choose to deal with (as we have touched upon in other threads).[/QB][/QUOTE]

I hear you Leslie, the bottom line is...the media sells us short..point blank..what's the difference in seeing this article in a national magazine and seeing lil kim and likes half naked in a national magazine...maybe this article will spark conversation (as it obviously has) and maybe we can come up with some solutions...

TAC

03-07-2003, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by lola desire:

instead, let's also talk about what YOU think is wrong with our community. let's talk about how WE can improve the situation.First up. There are no personal attacks coming from me!! ot on this thread. It is too mature a subject to sing to that style of arguing.

Okay, what do I think is wrong with the black community. It comes down to this, we need to behave like the Jews. They move as a cohesive force to the point where "they" want to call themselves a race; we do not.

Its the lasting "legacies" of slavery. The form that was practised in America was expecially destructive to the core of the black American family. The effects of of this are still felt to this day.

Peace
TAC

Leslie

03-07-2003, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by mhd:
the thing that is curious to me is the recipe for love doesn't change just because you are making loot, or does it? you have the same problems finding committed mates at all strata of our community. i've always felt that successful women did not open up their options enough and failed to see good brothers just because of the guys income, which is a recipe for loneliness. the most they will compromise is to get a brother with education but no real paper. but the guy with no college, and everything else in order, gets no shot.

and fwiw, i know ellis cose, i've known his wife for 20+ yearsAgain, its a 2 way street - not all men can deal when a woman is the primary bread winner, or when a woam makes a big check - this is something many women know, but many men don't want to admit too - due to society's structure being the way it is (the man as the head of the household and suppossed to be the primary breadwinner, yadda, yadda, yadda and all that goes with it) - seriously men have issues with this. When you have someone who makes approx. the same this issue tends to disappear. Again, I said there were a myriad of reasons, this was just one I chose to touch upon for the sake of argument. So perhaps there are women who don't open themselves up to certain situations if they feel that this will be an issue down the road.

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Leslie:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
lets say for a moment that the corporate sisters can't find mates, why?When you work in an enviornment such as corporate amerikka, to survive and get yours you have to be strong - this comes from experience - and we all know gaining experience can sometimes be painful (in more ways than one) - perhaps some men are turned off by the $ figure some of these ladies bring home - perhaps some of these ladies have a less than pleasant attitude about how much they make and don't necessarily know how to "tone it down" so those men that do get easily offended are not. mhd its a double edged sword. As I spoke about in my original post, one has to take certain amount of personal responsibility at to why they are where they are with resepct to having or not having a mate. Many a corporate sista who is brining in 6 figures before bonus still choose to spend time with men that are less than complimentary (I know cause I have seen a few aquantances do it - I say if this person where written in a contract or numbers in a deal they'd know this fool was not worth the time or effort). There are a myriad of reasons I suppose - not sure if I answered the question, but there it is....[/QUOTE]what do you mean by less than complimentary? paycheck or attitude...because I can go out on a limb and say that I think all of us (6 figures or not) have given some brothas the time of day and they couldn't even tell time...

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lola desire:

instead, let's also talk about what YOU think is wrong with our community. let's talk about how WE can improve the situation.First up. There are no personal attacks coming from me!! ot on this thread. It is too mature a subject to sing to that style of arguing.

Okay, what do I think is wrong with the black community. It comes down to this, we need to behave like the Jews. They move as a cohesive force to the point where "they" want to call themselves a race; we do not.

Its the lasting "legacies" of slavery. The form that was practised in America was expecially destructive to the core of the black American family. The effects of of this are still felt to this day.

Peace
TAC[/QUOTE]I totally agree with you...

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 11:51 AM

The only solution to this particular subject that I can come up with...is for us to become "de-europeanized" ...but then that presents other problems...

Leslie

03-07-2003, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
lets say for a moment that the corporate sisters can't find mates, why?When you work in an enviornment such as corporate amerikka, to survive and get yours you have to be strong - this comes from experience - and we all know gaining experience can sometimes be painful (in more ways than one) - perhaps some men are turned off by the $ figure some of these ladies bring home - perhaps some of these ladies have a less than pleasant attitude about how much they make and don't necessarily know how to "tone it down" so those men that do get easily offended are not. mhd its a double edged sword. As I spoke about in my original post, one has to take certain amount of personal responsibility at to why they are where they are with resepct to having or not having a mate. Many a corporate sista who is brining in 6 figures before bonus still choose to spend time with men that are less than complimentary (I know cause I have seen a few aquantances do it - I say if this person where written in a contract or numbers in a deal they'd know this fool was not worth the time or effort). There are a myriad of reasons I suppose - not sure if I answered the question, but there it is....[/QUOTE]what do you mean by less than complimentary? paycheck or attitude...because I can go out on a limb and say that I think all of us (6 figures or not) have given some brothas the time of day and they couldn't even tell time...[/QUOTE]Point taken and I will clarify loud and clear - ATTITUDE!! There are many a brotha making big bucks who are straight up jerks just as conversly there are plenty of middle income brotha who are jerks and vice versa. And yes, I know plenty of women including myself who gave a brotha who we maybe normally would not have talked to a break only to end up getting pissed off cause as you said "they couldn't tell time" LOL!!

Gojay

03-07-2003, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
We get too wrapped up into ourselves that we are more concerned about what can you do for me than how can we be down for each other.True that!

peace,
gojay

TAC

03-07-2003, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
The only solution to this particular subject that I can come up with...is for us to become "de-europeanized" ...but then that presents other problems...I don't know if I agree with you here. The only thing we need to do is recognize that we as a people are different, and stop looking to others for our cures. I was born in Lodon, my parents are Jamaican. My daughter is American. I mean we are envrionments. This one is a big discussion, so for give me for not completeing the thought.

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Leslie:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
lets say for a moment that the corporate sisters can't find mates, why?When you work in an enviornment such as corporate amerikka, to survive and get yours you have to be strong - this comes from experience - and we all know gaining experience can sometimes be painful (in more ways than one) - perhaps some men are turned off by the $ figure some of these ladies bring home - perhaps some of these ladies have a less than pleasant attitude about how much they make and don't necessarily know how to "tone it down" so those men that do get easily offended are not. mhd its a double edged sword. As I spoke about in my original post, one has to take certain amount of personal responsibility at to why they are where they are with resepct to having or not having a mate. Many a corporate sista who is brining in 6 figures before bonus still choose to spend time with men that are less than complimentary (I know cause I have seen a few aquantances do it - I say if this person where written in a contract or numbers in a deal they'd know this fool was not worth the time or effort). There are a myriad of reasons I suppose - not sure if I answered the question, but there it is....[/QUOTE]what do you mean by less than complimentary? paycheck or attitude...because I can go out on a limb and say that I think all of us (6 figures or not) have given some brothas the time of day and they couldn't even tell time...[/QUOTE]Point taken and I will clarify loud and clear - ATTITUDE!! There are many a brotha making big bucks who are straight up jerks just as conversly there are plenty of middle income brotha who are jerks and vice versa. And yes, I know plenty of women including myself who gave a brotha who we maybe normally would not have talked to a break only to end up getting pissed off cause as you said "they couldn't tell time" LOL!![/QUOTE]graemlins/rofl.gif so sad so sad...i feel ya

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
The only solution to this particular subject that I can come up with...is for us to become "de-europeanized" ...but then that presents other problems...I don't know if I agree with you here. The only thing we need to do is recognize that we as a people are different, and stop looking to others for our cures. I was born in Lodon, my parents are Jamaican. My daughter is American. I mean we are envrionments. This one is a big discussion, so for give me for not completeing the thought.[/QUOTE]TAC brotha...maybe with your parents being Jamaican, that gave you a whole different perspective of what it is to be of African descent...unfortunately...Eurpeans were extremely successful in annihilating us and our connection as a people, our spirituality, our basis, our foundation...and this isn't just an American thing it's a world wide event....look at the foundation (Africa)

TAC

03-07-2003, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
TAC brotha...maybe with your parents being Jamaican, that gave you a whole different perspective of what it is to be of African descent...Yes, it did. But udnerneath it all, it has left me with a struggle for a sense of identity... but thi si sa whole topic unto itself. Its not something that you will hear much about. The Jamericans may go through it too, but I don't know.

Originally posted by Ashaki:
unfortunately...Eurpeans were extremely successful in annihilating us and our connection as a people, our spirituality, our basis, our foundation...and this isn't just an American thing it's a world wide event....look at the foundation (Africa)But Ashaki, my nubian princess over in the Pan African corner, can't you see how this line of reasoning is one form of mental shackles. Enough already about how the Europeans did this and that to us. This is the victim argument. Its time to move on and stop feeling sorry for ourselves. After all, we are not the only group that has been trodden on history.

SPG

03-07-2003, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
...and I hope that all my highly educated brotha's and sistah's who can vacation in Martha's Vineyard are giving back to the communities, because if you were you would have a clue as to what's going on...topics like this wouldn't be a shocker...graemlins/jpshakehead.gif Everybody needs to give to the community.

Sorry mhd for drifting off course again.

SPG

LEONARD REMIX RROY

03-07-2003, 02:23 PM

Yea, I give advice.....Get you head out your ass! Young people I tried to direct to something positive only listen until after they really F**K up and by then it's too late.

I guy got out of jail and came back on the block, I told him to cut all the street S**t loose and move forward. 19 days later he was killed.

sorry for side tracking but I had to get that out.

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
TAC brotha...maybe with your parents being Jamaican, that gave you a whole different perspective of what it is to be of African descent...Yes, it did. But udnerneath it all, it has left me with a struggle for a sense of identity... but thi si sa whole topic unto itself. Its not something that you will hear much about. The Jamericans may go through it too, but I don't know.

Originally posted by Ashaki:
unfortunately...Eurpeans were extremely successful in annihilating us and our connection as a people, our spirituality, our basis, our foundation...and this isn't just an American thing it's a world wide event....look at the foundation (Africa)But Ashaki, my nubian princess over in the Pan African corner, can't you see how this line of reasoning is one form of mental shackles. Enough already about how the Europeans did this and that to us. This is the victim argument. Its time to move on and stop feeling sorry for ourselves. After all, we are not the only group that has been trodden on history.[/QUOTE]King,
We are not talking about the other groups, which seem to have some thread of culture to hold on to. No other culture can be compared to what we have endured..we can not begin to think about solutions without realizing why we are so ****ed up as a people and to me that realization is the acceptance of the truth which is to recognize that colonialization and slavery destroyed us..and once we recognize that and accept the truth about us we can begin to build and move on...but first we have to be stripped butt nakid of certain social notions/ideologies..

I know alot of people probably think I'm an extremist and then again I may be...I just don't think that we can begin to heal any where in the world, without knowledge. I think we are so ****ed up because we are trying to fit in, find a culture that is not ours, we are so off course, we as a people don't recognize and don't care to recognize our true base..our foundation and until this happens...this is where we'll be...

[ March 07, 2003, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]

LEONARD REMIX RROY

03-07-2003, 02:49 PM

You're no extreamist, I think you are right! Our people are the most trying to attach one-self to something - all the while not doing the research on what we are doing.

Trying to look African and clame a people that don't clame us really trip me out. The biggest thing I hear is "Well I herd". I herd is why so many of our people are so misguided.

I herd she, I herd he, I herd they, my question is "What do you know?"

Once they stop using material things to justify their-self / make them feel like a person, things will be better.

mhd

03-07-2003, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by SPG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
...and I hope that all my highly educated brotha's and sistah's who can vacation in Martha's Vineyard are giving back to the communities, because if you were you would have a clue as to what's going on...topics like this wouldn't be a shocker...graemlins/jpshakehead.gif Everybody needs to give to the community.

Sorry mhd for drifting off course again.

SPG[/QUOTE]no problem, great point, got any advice?

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SPG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
...and I hope that all my highly educated brotha's and sistah's who can vacation in Martha's Vineyard are giving back to the communities, because if you were you would have a clue as to what's going on...topics like this wouldn't be a shocker...graemlins/jpshakehead.gif Everybody needs to give to the community.

Sorry mhd for drifting off course again.

SPG[/QUOTE]no problem, great point, got any advice?[/QUOTE]local neighborhood schools, community centers, GED classes, drop in center, aids volunteers...etc...

LEONARD REMIX RROY

03-07-2003, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SPG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
...and I hope that all my highly educated brotha's and sistah's who can vacation in Martha's Vineyard are giving back to the communities, because if you were you would have a clue as to what's going on...topics like this wouldn't be a shocker...graemlins/jpshakehead.gif Everybody needs to give to the community.

Sorry mhd for drifting off course again.

SPG[/QUOTE]no problem, great point, got any advice?[/QUOTE]You know what?????? Most of the time I hake a suggestion to someone in the hood, the first thing I hear is "Man I ain't trying to do that"

Give back to the community, some people in the community got their hand out and expect to be given something (as if we owe them)

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SPG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
...and I hope that all my highly educated brotha's and sistah's who can vacation in Martha's Vineyard are giving back to the communities, because if you were you would have a clue as to what's going on...topics like this wouldn't be a shocker...graemlins/jpshakehead.gif Everybody needs to give to the community.

Sorry mhd for drifting off course again.

SPG[/QUOTE]no problem, great point, got any advice?[/QUOTE]Also, speaking of local neighborhood communities and after school programs, this could be a great opportunity to introduce inner city kids to the music we love...volunteer to dj a party or something...just a suggestion..

mhd

03-07-2003, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SPG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
...and I hope that all my highly educated brotha's and sistah's who can vacation in Martha's Vineyard are giving back to the communities, because if you were you would have a clue as to what's going on...topics like this wouldn't be a shocker...graemlins/jpshakehead.gif Everybody needs to give to the community.

Sorry mhd for drifting off course again.

SPG[/QUOTE]no problem, great point, got any advice?[/QUOTE]Also, speaking of local neighborhood communities and after school programs, this could be a great opportunity to introduce inner city kids to the music we love...volunteer to dj a party or something...just a suggestion..[/QUOTE]actually, i do a lot in the community, those are good suggestions, i was trying to get spg's input on the whole relationship issue, i'm sure she has some interesting ideas

SPG

03-07-2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:

no problem, great point, got any advice?
__________________________________________________
local neighborhood schools, community centers, GED classes, drop in center, aids volunteers...etc...[/QB][/QUOTE]
__________________________________________________

Right on track Ashaki!

Also, Mentoring Programs, Big Brother Big Sister of America, after school programs, Saturday school, Make a Difference day programs. You would be surprised at the lives you touch & help.

SPG

[ March 07, 2003, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: SPG ]

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SPG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
...and I hope that all my highly educated brotha's and sistah's who can vacation in Martha's Vineyard are giving back to the communities, because if you were you would have a clue as to what's going on...topics like this wouldn't be a shocker...graemlins/jpshakehead.gif Everybody needs to give to the community.

Sorry mhd for drifting off course again.

SPG[/QUOTE]no problem, great point, got any advice?[/QUOTE]Also, speaking of local neighborhood communities and after school programs, this could be a great opportunity to introduce inner city kids to the music we love...volunteer to dj a party or something...just a suggestion..[/QUOTE]actually, i do a lot in the community, those are good suggestions, i was trying to get spg's input on the whole relationship issue, i'm sure she has some interesting ideas[/QUOTE]pologize for dippin.. :D

LEONARD REMIX RROY

03-07-2003, 03:51 PM

I get upset when good advice is responded to after it is too late. It really hurts to see that too.

mhd

03-07-2003, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SPG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
...and I hope that all my highly educated brotha's and sistah's who can vacation in Martha's Vineyard are giving back to the communities, because if you were you would have a clue as to what's going on...topics like this wouldn't be a shocker...graemlins/jpshakehead.gif Everybody needs to give to the community.

Sorry mhd for drifting off course again.

SPG[/QUOTE]no problem, great point, got any advice?[/QUOTE]Also, speaking of local neighborhood communities and after school programs, this could be a great opportunity to introduce inner city kids to the music we love...volunteer to dj a party or something...just a suggestion..[/QUOTE]actually, i do a lot in the community, those are good suggestions, i was trying to get spg's input on the whole relationship issue, i'm sure she has some interesting ideas[/QUOTE]pologize for dippin.. :D [/QUOTE]like she said, you right on track, your suggestions were excellent, and everyone can do it,

SPG

03-07-2003, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by LEONARD REMIX RROY:
I get upset when good advice is responded to after it is too late. It really hurts to see that too.Some folks don't believe lard is greasy LRR. They just gotta test it.

SPG

Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand

03-07-2003, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
TAC brotha...maybe with your parents being Jamaican, that gave you a whole different perspective of what it is to be of African descent...Yes, it did. But udnerneath it all, it has left me with a struggle for a sense of identity... but thi si sa whole topic unto itself. Its not something that you will hear much about. The Jamericans may go through it too, but I don't know.

Originally posted by Ashaki:
unfortunately...Eurpeans were extremely successful in annihilating us and our connection as a people, our spirituality, our basis, our foundation...and this isn't just an American thing it's a world wide event....look at the foundation (Africa)But Ashaki, my nubian princess over in the Pan African corner, can't you see how this line of reasoning is one form of mental shackles. Enough already about how the Europeans did this and that to us. This is the victim argument. Its time to move on and stop feeling sorry for ourselves. After all, we are not the only group that has been trodden on history.[/QUOTE]King,
We are not talking about the other groups, which seem to have some thread of culture to hold on to. No other culture can be compared to what we have endured..we can not begin to think about solutions without realizing why we are so ****ed up as a people and to me that realization is the acceptance of the truth which is to recognize that colonialization and slavery destroyed us..and once we recognize that and accept the truth about us we can begin to build and move on...but first we have to be stripped butt nakid of certain social notions/ideologies..

I know alot of people probably think I'm an extremist and then again I may be...I just don't think that we can begin to heal any where in the world, without knowledge. I think we are so ****ed up because we are trying to fit in, find a culture that is not ours, we are so off course, we as a people don't recognize and don't care to recognize our true base..our foundation and until this happens...this is where we'll be...[/QUOTE]I have a couple of things to say:

We are a spiritual people and will never "fit in" wordly culture, becuase we have stopped feeling with our hearts a long time ago. The Jewish folk seemed to let the whole Holocaust thing go which only happend 60 years ago. They have a sense of self, spirituality and family. We have been free from slavery over 150 years and we can't let it go and move forward.(funny thing none of us here have ever been slaves) Topics like this gives the civil rights movement a kick in the ass! Our life process is part spiritual, until we realize that we will never find our place in life.

Once again I will say this Black Women have too many issues (yes I was one of them). We need to learn how to burn off our extra energy instead of roasting how our brothas ain't worthy. I keep saying it over and over again, we need to learn how to love each other despite differences. Stop trying to change the other person. We also need to keep our peace. We do not always have to twist our neck and point our finger to prove our point. It's all about Goodness and Gentleness. We can be strong but yet have a soft side. Trust me it looks better ;)

For the record, we are our own worse critic.

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by SPG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LEONARD REMIX RROY:
I get upset when good advice is responded to after it is too late. It really hurts to see that too.Some folks don't believe lard is greasy LRR. They just gotta test it.

SPG[/QUOTE]or as my granny would say...shit stinks til you put it to their noses...

or did she say ...jesus wept

Koffy Brown

03-07-2003, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
TAC brotha...maybe with your parents being Jamaican, that gave you a whole different perspective of what it is to be of African descent...Yes, it did. But udnerneath it all, it has left me with a struggle for a sense of identity... but thi si sa whole topic unto itself. Its not something that you will hear much about. The Jamericans may go through it too, but I don't know.

Originally posted by Ashaki:
unfortunately...Eurpeans were extremely successful in annihilating us and our connection as a people, our spirituality, our basis, our foundation...and this isn't just an American thing it's a world wide event....look at the foundation (Africa)But Ashaki, my nubian princess over in the Pan African corner, can't you see how this line of reasoning is one form of mental shackles. Enough already about how the Europeans did this and that to us. This is the victim argument. Its time to move on and stop feeling sorry for ourselves. After all, we are not the only group that has been trodden on history.[/QUOTE]King,
We are not talking about the other groups, which seem to have some thread of culture to hold on to. No other culture can be compared to what we have endured..we can not begin to think about solutions without realizing why we are so ****ed up as a people and to me that realization is the acceptance of the truth which is to recognize that colonialization and slavery destroyed us..and once we recognize that and accept the truth about us we can begin to build and move on...but first we have to be stripped butt nakid of certain social notions/ideologies..

I know alot of people probably think I'm an extremist and then again I may be...I just don't think that we can begin to heal any where in the world, without knowledge. I think we are so ****ed up because we are trying to fit in, find a culture that is not ours, we are so off course, we as a people don't recognize and don't care to recognize our true base..our foundation and until this happens...this is where we'll be...[/QUOTE]I have a couple of things to say:

We are a spiritual people and will never "fit in" wordly culture, becuase we have stopped feeling with our hearts a long time ago. The Jewish folk seemed to let the whole Holocaust thing go which only happend 60 years ago. They have a sense of self, spirituality and family. We have been free from slavery over 150 years and we can't let it go and move forward.(funny thing none of us here have ever been slaves) Topics like this gives the civil rights movement a kick in the ass! Our life process is part spiritual, until we realize that we will never find our place in life.

Once again I will say this Black Women have too many issues (yes I was one of them). We need to learn how to burn off our extra energy instead of roasting how our brothas ain't worthy. I keep saying it over and over again, we need to learn how to love each other despite differences. Stop trying to change the other person. We also need to keep our peace. We do not always have to twist our neck and point our finger to prove our point. It's all about Goodness and Gentleness. We can be strong but yet have a soft side. Trust me it looks better ;)

For the record, we are our own worse critic.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately Disco we are slaves...

SPG

03-07-2003, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
i was trying to get spg's input on the whole relationship issue, i'm sure she has some interesting ideasMHD,

The whole relationship subject is a broad area to address. What part of it are we focusing on?

SPG

SPG

03-07-2003, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SPG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LEONARD REMIX RROY:
I get upset when good advice is responded to after it is too late. It really hurts to see that too.Some folks don't believe lard is greasy LRR. They just gotta test it.

SPG[/QUOTE]or as my granny would say...shit stinks til you put it to their noses...

or did she say ...jesus wept[/QUOTE]:D

SPG

TAC

03-07-2003, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I have a couple of things to say:
We [all] need to keep our peace. We do not always have to twist our neck and point our finger to prove our point. It's all about Goodness and Gentleness. We can be strong but yet have a soft side. Trust me it looks better ;)

For the record, we are our own worse critic.I agree with you. I think I originally got into this because i just wanted to let her know that we are out here, and not all of us are "selling out" and abandoning our sisters for the "other."

On that note, I am ceasing the attempt to make other see my point of view.

Ashaki, you are not extreme. I have seen worse. But I am not going to continue based on what DiscoLady wrote. She is right.

I'm of to go so if I can find some quality music.

Peace
TAC

mhd

03-07-2003, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by SPG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
i was trying to get spg's input on the whole relationship issue, i'm sure she has some interesting ideasMHD,

The whole relationship subject is a broad area to address. What part of it are we focusing on?

SPG[/QUOTE]the main point, imo, of the newsweek article is that some or many successful, corporate black women are alone and one of the primary reasons is that brothers can't handle women that make more money than men.

mhd

03-07-2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I have a couple of things to say:
We [all] need to keep our peace. We do not always have to twist our neck and point our finger to prove our point. It's all about Goodness and Gentleness. We can be strong but yet have a soft side. Trust me it looks better ;)

For the record, we are our own worse critic.I agree with you. I think I originally got into this because i just wanted to let her know that we are out here, and not all of us are "selling out" and abandoning our sisters for the "other."

On that note, I am ceasing the attempt to make other see my point of view.

Ashaki, you are not extreme. I have seen worse. But I am not going to continue based on what DiscoLady wrote. She is right.

I'm of to go so if I can find some quality music.

Peace
TAC[/QUOTE]so you gonna leave me in this with leonard?

TAC

03-07-2003, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
so you gonna leave me in this with leonard?graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

[ March 07, 2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: TAC ]

Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand

03-07-2003, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
TAC brotha...maybe with your parents being Jamaican, that gave you a whole different perspective of what it is to be of African descent...Yes, it did. But udnerneath it all, it has left me with a struggle for a sense of identity... but thi si sa whole topic unto itself. Its not something that you will hear much about. The Jamericans may go through it too, but I don't know.

Originally posted by Ashaki:
unfortunately...Eurpeans were extremely successful in annihilating us and our connection as a people, our spirituality, our basis, our foundation...and this isn't just an American thing it's a world wide event....look at the foundation (Africa)But Ashaki, my nubian princess over in the Pan African corner, can't you see how this line of reasoning is one form of mental shackles. Enough already about how the Europeans did this and that to us. This is the victim argument. Its time to move on and stop feeling sorry for ourselves. After all, we are not the only group that has been trodden on history.[/QUOTE]King,
We are not talking about the other groups, which seem to have some thread of culture to hold on to. No other culture can be compared to what we have endured..we can not begin to think about solutions without realizing why we are so ****ed up as a people and to me that realization is the acceptance of the truth which is to recognize that colonialization and slavery destroyed us..and once we recognize that and accept the truth about us we can begin to build and move on...but first we have to be stripped butt nakid of certain social notions/ideologies..

I know alot of people probably think I'm an extremist and then again I may be...I just don't think that we can begin to heal any where in the world, without knowledge. I think we are so ****ed up because we are trying to fit in, find a culture that is not ours, we are so off course, we as a people don't recognize and don't care to recognize our true base..our foundation and until this happens...this is where we'll be...[/QUOTE]I have a couple of things to say:

We are a spiritual people and will never "fit in" wordly culture, becuase we have stopped feeling with our hearts a long time ago. The Jewish folk seemed to let the whole Holocaust thing go which only happend 60 years ago. They have a sense of self, spirituality and family. We have been free from slavery over 150 years and we can't let it go and move forward.(funny thing none of us here have ever been slaves) Topics like this gives the civil rights movement a kick in the ass! Our life process is part spiritual, until we realize that we will never find our place in life.

Once again I will say this Black Women have too many issues (yes I was one of them). We need to learn how to burn off our extra energy instead of roasting how our brothas ain't worthy. I keep saying it over and over again, we need to learn how to love each other despite differences. Stop trying to change the other person. We also need to keep our peace. We do not always have to twist our neck and point our finger to prove our point. It's all about Goodness and Gentleness. We can be strong but yet have a soft side. Trust me it looks better ;)

For the record, we are our own worse critic.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately Disco we are slaves...[/QUOTE]No sweetie, you may be but I am not. As long as there is a God that I praise and live what my destiny calls for, No one will enslave me or my talents. We do what we have to do to endure, you know such as trials and tribulations. Without those we have nothing to rejoice for. Also, I've read someone post earlier about slave is a mental state of mind. I will die fighting for what is right. What sense does it make to live as a slave and die a coward?

A slave? I think not. There will be no more "Massa I ain'ts gonna leave you cuz youz been good to us negras".

I will be among the strange and usual people ;)

formerly known as kenspank

03-07-2003, 05:32 PM

my father has a jd and an llm in taxation.
he is smart. got a lot of paper. but is neither rich nor very happy.

i know people who work all damn day, make a little bit of money in corporate america, but don't have any time to enjoy what they have.

i know a woman makes mega bucks, has a million dollar penthouse in nyc, but is rarely there.

we attend school to be successful in careers, but school doesn't teach you how to have successful families or successful marriages or how to really find the time to enjoy life.

there are only so many hours in the day. are we really successful when we toil away making someone elses company rich or are really successful when our lives are filled with love and grace?

SPG

03-07-2003, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by TAC:
and not all of us are "selling out" and abandoning our sisters for the "other."

TACChoose your words carefully TAC. I'm married to a "other".

SPG

SPG

03-07-2003, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
the main point, imo, of the newsweek article is that some or many successful, corporate black women are alone and one of the primary reasons is that brothers can't handle women that make more money than men.This is a hard one for me to address. Not single, my husband makes more than me & he’s white. I just never experienced those issues even when I was single.

The complaints I hear from the corporate single sisters at my work place are, Phoenix doesn’t have a good selection of brothers, not enough brothers, brothers already married, don’t want the hood brothers or brothers are with white women.

Maybe the reason why I’m not faced with this situation is I never thought about limiting my dating pool. I just dated whom I genuinely liked. I just wanted a good man with character, morals and a strong sense of self.

SPG

Ronnie Ron

03-07-2003, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by (Im)poster:
I'm adding my two cents late, as usual. I want to bring up the point MHD made, that black women making more or being "better" educated than black men is nothing new. With my own parents, my mother was a college-educated teacher and my father an auto mechanic. My mother quit working to raise us and it was never an issue in our household that she had graduated from college and he went to trade school. My father worked two jobs for most of his life to support us and the only time my sister and I ever had with him was on his off day -- Sunday, or when we went south on our annual family vacation. My father did not hide well the fact that he had women on the side, but he was a good provider, he was wise with his money, he did not drink, he tried to show us things, sent us to private schools and to college. There aren't many men these days who are responsible like my father was. I'm happy though, to know there are some of them out there and to count them among my closest friends.

I could not really relate to the Newsweek article because I never bought into the idea that I had to be with someone who also went to college. I never wanted to get married because I was affected by my father's obvious infidelity. Plus, my mother was always urging us to "be able to support yourself so you don't have to rely on a man." I never expected to rely on a man financially, and I never have.

But I have always NEEDED a man, a black man.
When I was in collge, I used to date engineers and the going-places types, but I was usually turned off by the "I-got-choices" mentality or bourgeois ways. More importantly, I was focused on MY career. I also found that far too many college-educated brothers had no conversation AT ALL, they were just recycling textbook topics that they had memorized but never really thought about. I am one who is excited by ideas, attracted to off-beat type who challenges conventional mores. A man bold enough to love house in a hip-hop world. :D

So I'm different in that way, too. Money, flash, degrees, job titles -- those things mean nothing to me. But I'm not taking care of a man, either. So, yes, I have to agree with TAC that a lot of women who need a man who makes what they make and is equally "educated" are eliminating potential mates. I know too many of them who spend their weekends together griping about being alone. I don't feel sad for them either. We are all free to make choices and to live with them.I really liked this thread. Its more in my realm of thinking, Im not college educated, only trade school educated and i can relate to this thread more than the others.... IMHO very Good thread (IM) poster

Ronnie Ron

03-07-2003, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by LEONARD REMIX RROY:

Once they stop using material things to justify their-self / make them feel like a person, things will be better.[/QB]Amen!!! I agree.

Ronnie Ron

03-07-2003, 06:26 PM

I believe if the two parties are into finding a mate for the right reasons Money wont matter much. If a Man is Hard working GOD fearing and doing the best he can with managing his money and has a pretty good head on his shoulders and is about advancement in his life (no matter what it may be) and the Woman is down to earth believes in GOD and is not concerned about the pocket and is concerned about what is coming out of this mans mouth and heart there should be no problems. If your makin 6 figures and you think your HOT shit cause your makin money then i sure hope you dont find what your lookin for. GOD has a way of humbeling people like that sooner or later they will get with the program run there lives the right way for the right reasons or they will go from man to man or woman to woman complaining about how they cant find a mate.

There is a Mate for every Man and Woman if you havent found them either its not your turn yet or you need to take a long look in the Miror and see what it is about YOU that is keeping you from happiness with the oposite sex...

I will add one more thing. i do believe the more educated you are the better descisions you make in life..

[ March 07, 2003, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: RonnieRon ]

mhd

03-07-2003, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by SPG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
the main point, imo, of the newsweek article is that some or many successful, corporate black women are alone and one of the primary reasons is that brothers can't handle women that make more money than men.This is a hard one for me to address. Not single, my husband makes more than me & he’s white. I just never experienced those issues even when I was single.

The complaints I hear from the corporate single sisters at my work place are, Phoenix doesn’t have a good selection of brothers, not enough brothers, brothers already married, don’t want the hood brothers or brothers are with white women.

Maybe the reason why I’m not faced with this situation is I never thought about limiting my dating pool. I just dated whom I genuinely liked. I just wanted a good man with character, morals and a strong sense of self.

SPG[/QUOTE]hahaha! how did i know you were going to come back with you never had a problem in this area. seriously, i'm happy for your success

mhd

03-07-2003, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by RonnieRon:
I believe if the two parties are into finding a mate for the right reasons Money wont matter much. If a Man is Hard working GOD fearing and doing the best he can with managing his money and has a pretty good head on his shoulders and is about advancement in his life (no matter what it may be) and the Woman is down to earth believes in GOD and is not concerned about the pocket and is concerned about what is coming out of this mans mouth and heart there should be no problems. If your makin 6 figures and you think your HOT shit cause your makin money then i sure hope you dont find what your lookin for. GOD has a way of humbeling people like that sooner or later they will get with the program run there lives the right way for the right reasons or they will go from man to man or woman to woman complaining about how they cant find a mate.

There is a Mate for every Man and Woman if you havent found them either its not your turn yet or you need to take a long look in the Miror and see what it is about YOU that is keeping you from happiness with the oposite sex...

I will add one more thing. i do believe the more educated you are the better descisions you make in life..i hear you ron, you are so right, man, i gotta hook you up with some of my female friends in Jersey

Wild i

03-08-2003, 05:43 AM

I was working with a man who happened to be of Chinses decent who recently left his job because his wife is pregnant. He is going to run her import/export business for a while so she can play mom. I don't know if she'll go back to work and he'll play Mr. Mom, but he pretty much indicated that his salary was completely unneeded. Said his wife just bought him a brand new Benz for Christmas. He seemed pretty secure in himself, not wracked with self-doubt with no concerns for his manhood.

Now, I doubt that this had anything to do with the fact that he's Chinese, but you know if a Black man did that, AND LET'S BE HONEST, people would call him all kinds of lazy dog. "What kind of man sits home while his wife works?" blah, blah, blah.

Oh there are many issues here!

(Im)poster

03-08-2003, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by Wild i:
Now, I doubt that this had anything to do with the fact that he's Chinese, but you know if a Black man did that, AND LET'S BE HONEST, people would call him all kinds of lazy dog. "What kind of man sits home while his wife works?" blah, blah, blah.There are probably some Chinese folks who say the same about this man. But I think the fact that you pointed out that HE is confident enough in himself to do it is what really matters. Other people will always judge our actions, what matters is what we think of ourselves. Each person has to become strong enough to follow
his or her own convictions regardless of the
outside chit-chat.

(Im)poster

03-08-2003, 07:26 AM

Thanks for the compliment, RonnieRon, but I have to admit that I have been doing some soul searching about what I said based on some posts in this thread and others. I enjoy this kind of discussion because unlike arguing, it allows people to make their point in a way that can make me reconsider my beliefs/thoughts.

mrbillpeewee

03-08-2003, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
]I have a couple of things to say:

We are a spiritual people and will never "fit in" wordly culture, becuase we have stopped feeling with our hearts a long time ago. The Jewish folk seemed to let the whole Holocaust thing go which only happend 60 years ago. They have a sense of self, spirituality and family. We have been free from slavery over 150 years and we can't let it go and move forward.(funny thing none of us here have ever been slaves) Topics like this gives the civil rights movement a kick in the ass! Our life process is part spiritual, until we realize that we will never find our place in life.

Once again I will say this Black Women have too many issues (yes I was one of them). We need to learn how to burn off our extra energy instead of roasting how our brothas ain't worthy. I keep saying it over and over again, we need to learn how to love each other despite differences. Stop trying to change the other person. We also need to keep our peace. We do not always have to twist our neck and point our finger to prove our point. It's all about Goodness and Gentleness. We can be strong but yet have a soft side. Trust me it looks better ;)

For the record, we are our own worse critic.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Finally A REAL Black Woman!!!!
That's down to the bone ....
What pissed me off the most, sick of fighting to be me, deal with me,find me.
Black women don't see Black Man , they see White man black covering.
Some of us (Black Men) are outside of this Worldly place because of our spritituality.
Some Black Women can't feel that?
It' all about what they Mama want. graemlins/acclaim.gif

Fletch

03-09-2003, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by TAC:
The barber shop! Yes indeed, if you want to get a true cross section of the black community, go into our barbershops, and our beauty parlors for that matter.

To fellow SU alumn over in the BK coner of the room - Jazz, running, House - I ain't buying into the notion that these are not black things. Rethink that one please.

Peace
TACAmen to the barbershop argument.

As to my "non Black" interest:
1) Jazz. You should have seen Roy Hargrove at the Vanguard last month. A little more Folk than the last time I saw him there 10 years ago (the audience was all Japanese then), but still not enough color in the venue.

2) Running. You should see the looks of Black folk (Us!) when I jog through Downtown Brooklyn.

3) House. We know about the underground nature of the house scene. Most Black folk I know think that all house is "Follow Me".

Back to the barbershop, though. A personal story. I had a former barber say to me "your college degree don't mean s**t. Needless to say, I was completely devastated. It took me a year to finally realize that one should never support anyone who says anything like that. So I eventually stopped patronizing him and went to another barber.

I also realized, in all fairness, that he had a very practical philosophy on life. He thought that once you finished high school, you needed to go straight to work. So he stacked up plenty of civil service applications in his shop (NYC transit, NYPD, Sanitation, Post Office, etc), so that his patrons could be quickly and gainfully employed. He thought college was a waste of time and a lot of money.

Moral to this story. Please be careful the way you say things to people, especially young Black men (remember the white teacher and young Malcolm Little?). It could determine the confidence of a young man. Peace.

Insert pseudonym here

03-09-2003, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by einnod23:
Very interesting read. What are your thoughts?

www.msnbc.com/news/875614.asp?0dm=-209k (http://www.msnbc.com/news/875614.asp?0dm=-209k)It's 00:33... I said I needed to go cook before my better half chews his legs off. However, this article caught my eye. I read it in it's entirety. The prose was catchy and interesting.

Now... as a Black American Woman reading this... I recognize the propaganda that being spread. It's brainwashing some Black women into thinking that if they are upwardly mobile, they have to be alone. Come 'on don't let the media play with your common sense like that. Then in the same right... even though it mentions interracial dating... if you look at the sub-text of the statements surrounding the topic, it's a bit negative. So now the article is telling you... "gone girl, you are better than a black man 'cause of your degree, but if you date a man outside of your race... you are suspect. Next stop become a lesbian or an old maid!" Now either you will run out and buy a lot of batteries for your vibrators or just come on and CALL A SPADE A DAMN SPADE.

Question: Who the hell is Newsweek to say anything about Black women? No one can comment on the plight, triumph or revelations of Black women but Black women. ...And furthermore... it's time that we stop thinking, moving and feeling as though we (Yes, I am a Black woman... just looked in the mirror and I'm still Black as the night is long!) are CHATTLE. Just because we are Black American women; doesn't mean we can be generalized.

WE ARE ALSO HUMAN BEINGS.... WE ARE INDIVIDUALS!

Please don't let the media brain wash you by "bigging you up... and then programming you".

You (Black Woman) are an individual and you should make choices according to your own MANTRA. If you don't have a MANTRA... get one!

Life is too short to dictate love, happiness and spirituality by how much you earn or how much you think a man should earn.

I MAY BE A YOUNG BUCK... BUT I WILL SWEAR BY THIS... IF YOU TRULY LOVE YOURSELF AND WHO YOU ARE, LOVE WILL FIND YOU. ...AND GUESS WHAT... IT'S FREE. LOVE DON'T CARE HOW MUCH YOU PAY PER MONTH ON YOUR BMW OR WHAT TYPE OF DAMN PEDIGREE YOU HAVE.

Now... me and my sweet english muffin are going to eat. We'ez hungry.

One Love....

...and I'm open for an intellectual debate about the topic. Plus, I'm sure I have not been as objective as I needed to be cause it's now 00:42 and my stomach has resorted to doing the cabbage patch.

Ta Ta For Now.

TAC

03-09-2003, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by SPG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
and not all of us are "selling out" and abandoning our sisters for the "other."

TACChoose your words carefully TAC. I'm married to a "other".

SPG[/QUOTE]I did chose my words carefully. You filled in the "other." I used "other" because I did not want to single out any group.

Did I hit a nerve? :D

mhd

03-10-2003, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by DJ Efabulous:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by einnod23:
Very interesting read. What are your thoughts?

www.msnbc.com/news/875614.asp?0dm=-209k (http://www.msnbc.com/news/875614.asp?0dm=-209k)It's 00:33... I said I needed to go cook before my better half chews his legs off. However, this article caught my eye. I read it in it's entirety. The prose was catchy and interesting.

Now... as a Black American Woman reading this... I recognize the propaganda that being spread. It's brainwashing some Black women into thinking that if they are upwardly mobile, they have to be alone. Come 'on don't let the media play with your common sense like that. Then in the same right... even though it mentions interracial dating... if you look at the sub-text of the statements surrounding the topic, it's a bit negative. So now the article is telling you... "gone girl, you are better than a black man 'cause of your degree, but if you date a man outside of your race... you are suspect. Next stop become a lesbian or an old maid!" Now either you will run out and buy a lot of batteries for your vibrators or just come on and CALL A SPADE A DAMN SPADE.

Question: Who the hell is Newsweek to say anything about Black women? No one can comment on the plight, triumph or revelations of Black women but Black women. ...And furthermore... it's time that we stop thinking, moving and feeling as though we (Yes, I am a Black woman... just looked in the mirror and I'm still Black as the night is long!) are CHATTLE. Just because we are Black American women; doesn't mean we can be generalized.

WE ARE ALSO HUMAN BEINGS.... WE ARE INDIVIDUALS!

Please don't let the media brain wash you by "bigging you up... and then programming you".

You (Black Woman) are an individual and you should make choices according to your own MANTRA. If you don't have a MANTRA... get one!

Life is too short to dictate love, happiness and spirituality by how much you earn or how much you think a man should earn.

I MAY BE A YOUNG BUCK... BUT I WILL SWEAR BY THIS... IF YOU TRULY LOVE YOURSELF AND WHO YOU ARE, LOVE WILL FIND YOU. ...AND GUESS WHAT... IT'S FREE. LOVE DON'T CARE HOW MUCH YOU PAY PER MONTH ON YOUR BMW OR WHAT TYPE OF DAMN PEDIGREE YOU HAVE.

Now... me and my sweet english muffin are going to eat. We'ez hungry.

One Love....

...and I'm open for an intellectual debate about the topic. Plus, I'm sure I have not been as objective as I needed to be cause it's now 00:42 and my stomach has resorted to doing the cabbage patch.

Ta Ta For Now. [/QUOTE]can't argue with anything you said,