International Court/Supreme Court to Hear Guantanamo Appeals

[mdpm99]

Seeing as the Gitmo concentration camp does not operate under the laws of the US, it is only fair that the U.N. Court of Human Rights should have a say in this...the US also needs to be held accountable for it's atrocities in Central America, Afghanistan, Iraq & elsewhere by joining the rest of the world in the International War Crimes Tribunal.
No-one, not even Bu$h with his dictatorial arrogance, should ever be allowed to be outside the law.
The attacks on 9/11 killed Nationals from dozens of countries, it was an attack on the International Community, & those who had a hand in it should be tried by the International Community...not the USA, whose "justice" system is corrupt at the best of times.

d.

[ November 10, 2003, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

[Jolyon]

Hey David...Bu$h is trying to get the whole of Central London closed off when he's in town...doesn't want protestors shouting angry slogans at him...

But the police over here have told the White House they'll just have to put up with.

Now...where's that stash of rotten eggs I've been saving up... biggrinangel.gif

P.S. Guantanamo Bay is a scandal...but sums up the Bush administration perfectly.

[mdpm99]

The stash is out in the garage where we left it....remember??? biggrinangel.gif

d

[Jolyon]

Bush will find animosity from ordinary Brits everywhere he goes (in public). Mind you I'm sure he'll spend most of the time holed up at Buck Palace with the Queen (Elizabeth not Charles graemlins/rofl.gif )

[mdpm99]

Originally posted by Jolyon:
Bush will find animosity from ordinary Brits everywhere he goes (in public). Mind you I'm sure he'll spend most of the time holed up at Buck Palace with the Queen (Elizabeth not Charles graemlins/rofl.gif ) graemlins/rofl5.gif

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Jolyon:
Bush will find animosity from ordinary Brits everywhere he goes (in public). Mind you I'm sure he'll spend most of the time holed up at Buck Palace with the Queen (Elizabeth not Charles graemlins/rofl.gif ) You mean Tony Blair won't come running the minute he touches down?

[mdpm99]

"Suspect" held without legal protection, isolated indefinitely, no Geneva convention protection. Just one more reason why Gore has a point comparing the Bush administrations plans for the world to the book 1984.......

d

[lyot]

I'm outraged by what happens in Guantanamo..

[Jolyon]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jolyon:
Bush will find animosity from ordinary Brits everywhere he goes (in public). Mind you I'm sure he'll spend most of the time holed up at Buck Palace with the Queen (Elizabeth not Charles graemlins/rofl.gif ) You mean Tony Blair won't come running the minute he touches down? </font>[/QUOTE]Oh Blair will be spending most of the visit with his tongue up where the sun don't shine. As for ordinary Brits...most think Bush is an idiot who stole the election and took us into a war we didn't want.

[mdpm99]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jolyon:
Bush will find animosity from ordinary Brits everywhere he goes (in public). Mind you I'm sure he'll spend most of the time holed up at Buck Palace with the Queen (Elizabeth not Charles graemlins/rofl.gif ) You mean Tony Blair won't come running the minute he touches down? </font>[/QUOTE]......Bu$h's poodle.

[Jolyon]

Originally posted by lyot:
I'm outraged by what happens in Guantanamo.. Me too. It's absolutely outrageous. If any other country was behaving in such a way we would label them fascists.

[Leslie]

Makes me wanna holla, throw up both my hands.... graemlins/jpshakehead.gif It is all such bullshit!

[lyot]

Originally posted by Jolyon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lyot:
I'm outraged by what happens in Guantanamo.. Me too. It's absolutely outrageous. If any other country was behaving in such a way we would label them fascists. </font>[/QUOTE]what you said..I do not understand that this is not more of an issue..At first, there was some rumour about it, but not anymore..everyone seems totally disinterested..

peace

[mdpm99]

For real.......

Have you ever noticed when (for ex) Bu$h gets off his helicopter and walks towards the WH that he actually walks like a monkey. No, I ain't bashin...it is a FACT (have a second l@@k next time). What scares me even more is that he also talks like one....and he also looks, ......well I'll let you finish this if you wish.

d

Have a great evening everyone!

[Jolyon]

It still makes the papers and news here every few weeks. There are Members of Parliament bringing it up a lot in Parliament...all to no avail.

They won't even allow journalists inside to report on what is going on.

[Discogoddess]

Originally posted by Jolyon:
...As for ordinary Brits...most think Bush is an idiot who stole the election and took us into a war we didn't want. I hope enough ordinary Americans remember this come November 2004, and vote him out of office. I wish this was a no-brainer, but I'm very worried. As my mom would say, "that would be too much like right."

[lyot]

Originally posted by Jolyon:
It still makes the papers and news here every few weeks. There are Members of Parliament bringing it up a lot in Parliament...all to no avail.

They won't even allow journalists inside to report on what is going on. thanks for informing me on this Jolyon..It's comforting to know that the English parliament is still interested in this affair..They gotta keep some pressure up, even if it doesn't help at first..

I'm gonna see if Amnesty doesn't have a campaign running on this..

greetings

[mdpm99]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jolyon:
...As for ordinary Brits...most think Bush is an idiot who stole the election and took us into a war we didn't want. I hope enough ordinary Americans remember this come November 2004, and vote him out of office. I wish this was a no-brainer, but I'm very worried. As my mom would say, "that would be too much like right." </font>[/QUOTE]I signed up for the Dean support list today.....
At least for the moment one has to show that there is counter support against another 4 more years of the Bu$hies. If the election were held 2day I would vote 4 Dean. One thing I like about him is that when he is pushed he pushes right back. He is no pansey.

d

[ November 10, 2003, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

[Dj Pat]

Just to tease the Mind here... graemlins/conf44.gif
Isnt it odd that the Saudis got Car bomb this past weekend and and as if day devides the night the US $tate Department was on tv saying it was the work of Al-Quida, but no one else was saying or Following in line with that statement?!?!?!?
Wouldnt it be a slap in our face if it was Found out that the United States had something to do with that Bombing over the weekend just to drag Saudi in a war that the US is looseing on?

AR15firing.gif
Hmm, in a Bu$h day and age I wouldnt put it past the State Department to do something like that.
But hey, Im an American and this is Just an American thaught!

Dj Pat & Blue.
Physical Heat Music.

[Jolyon]

lyot

Recent examples of Guantanamo Bay being raised in the UK Parliament.

30 Oct 2003 : Column 434

Guantanamo Bay Detainees
23. Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome): What recent discussions the Attorney-General has had with the United States authorities on the legal position of British citizens detained at Guantanamo bay. [135227]


The Solicitor-General: The Attorney-General went to Washington in July for talks with the US Administration about the future of the United Kingdom detainees in Guantanamo bay. Since then, he has had four further meetings with the US authorities, the most recent being on 3 October.


Mr. Heath: Can the Solicitor-General tell me with whom precisely the Attorney-General has been holding meetings? Is it the US Attorney-General, who claims that Guantanamo bay is beyond his jurisdiction, or is it the Department of Defence? Before the President of the United States visits this country shortly, will there be a resolution of the wholly unacceptable position whereby British citizens are held at Guantanamo bay and not subject to due process?


The Solicitor-General: The Attorney-General has held meetings with his counterpart, the Attorney-General of the United States, and with officials from the Department of Defence. As the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and others have placed it on record, I take this opportunity to remind the House that the Attorney-General has been holding discussions with the US authorities and has been seeking undertakings that if UK citizens are put on trial in the US they will have a fair trial. We have made it clear that if the Attorney-General is not satisfied that those citizens would receive a fair trial under the United States' procedures they will be returned to the UK. The hon. Gentleman can be satisfied that either they will have a fair trial or they will be returned to the UK. As negotiations are continuing, I am afraid that I can say nothing further about timing.
15 Jul 2003 : Column 170


Mr. Straw: A lot of information is on the sheets that will go into the Library. If my hon. Friend wishes for more, he should get in touch with me.


Helen Jackson (Sheffield, Hillsborough): How many prisoners are being held by coalition forces, and where? Does my right hon. Friend agree that the record of the United States is appalling in its disregard for international human rights in the way that it is treating 680 detainees at Guantanamo bay? Can he give us an absolute assurance that the highest levels of fair justice will be exercised when dealing with however many prisoners are being held in Iraq?


Mr. Straw: I assume my hon. Friend is speaking about prisoners held by the US and UK—


Helen Jackson: Coalition forces.


Mr. Straw: Yes, by coalition forces. I cannot give my hon. Friend an exact number straight away. I will write to her and place the reply in the Library of the House. I accept entirely the clear obligations of the coalition provisional authority under international law and under resolution 1483. For whatever reason they are held, people must be treated with proper regard for their human rights.


Mr. Jon Owen Jones (Cardiff, Central): Further to the question from my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Medway (Mr. Marshall-Andrews), when the Foreign Secretary says that we will remain in Iraq for as long as it takes to establish elected representative Iraqi government and internal security, given that we are by far the junior partner in the coalition, is he not saying, in effect, that we will remain in Iraq for as long as the Americans want us to? What capacity do we have for independent judgment about these issues?


Mr. Straw: It is the confidence that I have, which I am sorry my hon. Friend does not share, in the judgment of this House of Commons. It is we who decide whether or not troops should take up positions and how long they should stay there. Of course we are working with the Americans, but that is up to us. There are many situations in the world in which we do not join the Americans. In this case, we do. That is an independent decision by the House of Commons. My hon. Friend should have faith.

Mr. Charles Kennedy (Ross, Skye and Inverness, West): On a previous occasion the Prime Minister replied to me that the nine UK citizens being held at Camp Delta could not remain there indefinitely, but he

9 Jul 2003 : Column 1152

must recognise equally that he cannot give that reply indefinitely. How long must UK citizens be left to languish in this legal no-man's-land?

The Prime Minister: I agree that obviously there has to be a point in time when the issue is brought to an end. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the United States is now talking about the right method by which to try anybody against whom charges would be brought. We will make active representations to the United States—indeed, we are already doing so—to make absolutely sure that any such trial will take place in accordance with proper international law.


Mr. Kennedy: Since I last raised the matter with the Prime Minister, those representations to the American authorities have fallen on deaf ears. Two of these British citizens may imminently face very serious charges but, he must surely acknowledge, they are not aware of what those charges are and they will be tried in a military tribunal. If they agree to plead guilty, they may be able to escape the death penalty, but if they do not, and are found guilty, they could face the death penalty. If they are not found guilty, the Americans could still choose to detain them as potential combatants. Just how long will the Prime Minister find that state of affairs acceptable, and what does that say for British influence, which he heralds, over the Americans?


The Prime Minister: It is of course important that the commission that tries these people is conducted according to proper rules. Those rules have not yet been drawn up, and it is precisely for that reason that we are making active representations, and our opposition to the death penalty is well known.


Geraint Davies (Croydon, Central): On that point, my constituent, Feroz Abbasi, has been held in Guantanamo bay for 18 months without charge, and he now faces the prospect of a military tribunal in which he will not be able to appoint his own defence lawyer or to cross-examine prosecution witnesses, and he may face the death penalty following a decision behind closed doors.

Have the Government applied for the repatriation of my constituent to face a fair trial in Britain, and will my right hon. Friend now press to have all the evidence against Feroz Abbasi supplied to the Government, so that we may press charges and apply for an extradition order under our terrorism legislation? Feroz Abbasi could then face a fair trial and be punished if guilty, and the rule of law and human rights would prevail.


The Prime Minister: What my hon. Friend says must be right. If charges are brought, they must be proved in accordance with proper rules of evidence. As he rightly says, the charges are serious. It is worth remembering that the allegations revolve around what happened in Afghanistan some time ago, when British and American troops were putting their lives at risk there. However, I entirely agree with my hon. Friend—there must be no question about this at all. Any commission or tribunal

9 Jul 2003 : Column 1153

that tries these men must be conducted in accordance with proper canons of law so that a fair trial takes place and is seen to take place.

[Leslie]

Yea, I saw Gov. Edwards interview on Face the Nation yesterday, I am looking at him, Dean, and Clark.

[ November 10, 2003, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Leslie ]

[lyot]

since David just highjacked it... I read today in the newspaper that Dean has refused financial governement support for his election campaign, since he's confident he will get over 45$ million dollar on the internet solely..That's good news.. So now my question : is it already clear that he will become Bush's rival ?

and when do the preliminaries start actually ?

[lyot]

thanks for the information Jolyon..I'm printing it..

[Jolyon]

Originally posted by lyot:
since David just highjacked it... I read today in the newspaper that Dean has refused financial governement support for his election campaign, since he's confident he will get over 45$ million dollar on the internet solely..That's good news.. So now my question : is it already clear that he will become Bush's rival ?

and when do the preliminaries start actually ? I like the cut of Dean's gib too.

[Dj Pat]

Originally posted by lyot:
since David just highjacked it... I read today in the newspaper that Dean has refused financial governement support for his election campaign, since he's confident he will get over 45$ million dollar on the internet solely..That's good news.. So now my question : is it already clear that he will become Bush's rival ?

and when do the preliminaries start actually ? I think so!!! smile.gif
He's allready line up and being Prep for Debates with Dubya.
So it's safe to say...yes!
I hope that dean could control his temper. But then again it's good to put Bu$h on his heals for once without daddy holding him up. graemlins/acclaim.gif

Blue & Dj Pat
Physical Heat Music

[mdpm99]

Originally posted by Jolyon:
Hey David...Bu$h is trying to get the whole of Central London closed off when he's in town...doesn't want protestors shouting angry slogans at him...

But the police over here have told the White House they'll just have to put up with.

Now...where's that stash of rotten eggs I've been saving up... biggrinangel.gif

P.S. Guantanamo Bay is a scandal...but sums up the Bush administration perfectly. This is
LONDON
10/11/03 - News and city section

Yard fury over Bush visit
By Patrick Sawer, Evening Standard

White House security demands covering President George Bush's controversial state visit to Britain have provoked a serious row with Scotland Yard.

American officials want a virtual three-day shutdown of central London in a bid to foil disruption of the visit by anti-war protestors. They are demanding that police ban all marches and seal off the city centre.

But senior Yard officers say the powers requested by US security chiefs would be unprecedented on British soil. While the Met wants to prevent violence, it is sensitive to accusations of trying to curtail legitimate protest.

Met officers came in for heavy criticism when banners were torn down and demonstrators prevented from coming within sight of Chinese President Jiang Zemin during his visit in 1999.

But with tens of thousands of protestors from around the UK set to join blockades and marches during the Bush trip, US officials are reportedly insisting on an "exclusion zone".

They say terrorists could use the crowds as cover to attack the President.

Secrecy surrounds his itinerary during the trip, which starts on 19 November. He will stay at Buckingham Palace and his staff want The Mall, Whitehall and part of the City closed. Besides provoking a civil liberties backlash, the Met fears such a move would cause traffic chaos and incur huge loss of business across the capital.

White House officials have already vetoed the traditional drive in an open carriage along the Mall. They fear it would make Mr Bush too vulnerable to attack or confrontations over British support for the US in Iraq.

Anti-war groups such as the Stop The War Coalition, and the Muslim Association of Britain, have made no secret of their wish to harass Mr Bush wherever he goes. But they insist they are only planning "non-violent direct action".

Met Commissioner Sir John Stevens said his force was facing "a very tough" time over the visit, which will see the biggest security operation ever mounted in Britain.

He told the Breakfast with Frost show a balance had to be struck between the President's safety and protestors' right to make their voices heard.

"We are on the highest alert that we have ever worked at," he said. "We are working two-and-a-half times harder than we did at the very height of the Irish terror campaign."

The Yard has cancelled all leave for the three-day visit and mobilised 3,800 officers for the £4million security operation.

Civil rights campaigners say they expect draconian anti-terror rules to be deployed, although Sir John has assured them marches will be allowed and they will be able to use Trafalgar Square.

But the Met and the US Secret Service have reportedly agreed "rules of engagement" allowing Bush bodyguards to shoot anyone they believe is clearly threatening the life of the President.

[Monny JcIntosh]

Originally posted by lyot:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jolyon:
It still makes the papers and news here every few weeks. There are Members of Parliament bringing it up a lot in Parliament...all to no avail.

They won't even allow journalists inside to report on what is going on. thanks for informing me on this Jolyon..It's comforting to know that the English parliament is still interested in this affair..They gotta keep some pressure up, even if it doesn't help at first..

I'm gonna see if Amnesty doesn't have a campaign running on this..

greetings </font>[/QUOTE]Lyot, my girlfriend was working on this when with Amnesty's Afghanistan team. There are some horrific, and some very shady stories, but nobody's listening. The torture thread from a while back makes me wonder if many in the US care. Amnesty are campaigning for the prisoners to be classed as prisoners of war, or for at least an independent tribunal to decide on their status. I can ask her for more info if you need.

There was quite a bit in the news recently about some British lawyers' attempts to have the British citizens that are held to be at least formally charged. The distant hope was that they could be tried, in that case, in a UK court. I think they got very little concessions from the US.

[Monny JcIntosh]

Sorry, I posted before I saw Jolyon's transcript.