CNN Website...9/11...Conspiracy segment...hmm

[david_mancuso]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/12/01/yir.mystery.plane.cnn


Maybe removed soon...truth movement ends up on CNN, that's huge considering its the mainstream media.

Still there at the time of this posting.

----

9/11: The mystery plane
A mystery plane that flew over Washington on September 11, 2001 is still a cause for concern. CNN's John King reports.

[Ndless Nite]

Wonder what this will do for the debate between the two groups? First Loose Change, then Popular Mechanics debunks them, and then another group debunks Popular Mechanics.

Hmmmmm indeed.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Wonder what this will do for the debate between the two groups? First Loose Change, then Popular Mechanics debunks them, and then another group debunks Popular Mechanics.

Hmmmmm indeed.

I am of the opinion that Loose Change was put out so it can be debunked. Most truthers don't even reference the film. Saw a debate between the producer and one of the people who believe no planes were hijacked. He seemed so steadfast against that possibilty as if his theories are the only ones that can be true. But if he really did his research he would know that is what is closest to the truth.

[alvin]

The video makes mention of the fact that the area around the White House and Pentagon is "restricted airspace".

Wouldn't this "restricted airspace" be heavily defended being that this area is central to the Federal government of the most powerful nation in the world?

Knowing that 2 planes had already crashed into the WTC and the nation was "under attack", and that other "highjacked" planes were still unaccounted for...wouldn't the defense of this "restricted airspace" be the first order of business especially since you knew well in advance that jets were roaming the airspace with no set flightplan???

Maybe the governmental jet was the command center for the unmanned drone that crashed into the Pentagon?

Jet with governmental markings is flying in "restricted airspace" while the country is under attack.

Governmental officials downplay and deny any link between jet in "restricted airspace and 9-11.

Hmmm...

I guess the masses still can't put 2+2 together...

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

The video makes mention of the fact that the area around the White House and Pentagon is "restricted airspace".

Wouldn't this "restricted airspace" be heavily defended being that this area is central to the Federal government of the most powerful nation in the world?

Knowing that 2 planes had already crashed into the WTC and the nation was "under attack", and that other "highjacked" planes were still unaccounted for...wouldn't the defense of this "restricted airspace" be the first order of business especially since you knew well in advance that jets were roaming the airspace with no set flightplan???

Maybe the governmental jet was the command center for the unmanned drone that crashed into the Pentagon?

Jet with governmental markings is flying in "restricted airspace" while the country is under attack.

Governmental officials downplay and deny any link between jet in "restricted airspace and 9-11.

Hmmm...

I guess the masses still can't put 2+2 together...

The US airspace cannot be penetrated. If your plane goes off course F16's are deployed. We are to believe 4 planes were hijacked AND re-routed yet no f16s were deployed.

As for the Pentagon, why wasn't it evacuated anyway.

Bottom line is that the laws of physics went out the window on 9/11. Planes vaporized. Stell frame building collapsed at free fall speed. Thos e buildings fell faster than the people falling out the windows.

[david_mancuso]

n/m

[martino]

The US airspace cannot be penetrated. If your plane goes off course F16's are deployed. We are to believe 4 planes were hijacked AND re-routed yet no f16s were deployed.

As for the Pentagon, why wasn't it evacuated anyway.

Bottom line is that the laws of physics went out the window on 9/11. Planes vaporized. Stell frame building collapsed at free fall speed. Thos e buildings fell faster than the people falling out the windows.

watching the news, i still remember eye witness accounts of said plane on the day of: "No markings".. . But that's one of the smallest holes in the official story of what went down that day.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

watching the news, i still remember eye witness accounts of said plane on the day of: "No markings".. . But that's one of the smallest holes in the official story of what went down that day.

In the end, the only piece of evidence that they can't get rid of is the tv coverage in which the only live shot of the 2nd "plane" is shown coming out the other side with the nose intact. Subsequent "replays" had banners covering the mistake they made. Youtube and Google are your friends.

[Suspended]

All those saveable people trapped in the buildings would logically be seen as 'witnesses of truth'...could the powers that be afford to have so many eye witnesses in existance? Obviously the answer was NO.

[geo]

The US airspace cannot be penetrated. If your plane goes off course F16's are deployed. We are to believe 4 planes were hijacked AND re-routed yet no f16s were deployed.

.

They were training North of the border that day.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

They were training in Md I believe on the morning of 9/11. The exercise was dealing with what would happen if hijacked planes hit the WTC and the Pentagon.these exercises were going on for 2 years. Yet Bush and Rice both went on tv and denied that anyone could have envisioned that happening. This is a fact not conspiracy.

Same thing on the day of the London bombing. A training op was going on the same day dealing with a train bomb going off at the exact same station. These are some strange coincindences.

[david_mancuso]

Greetings :)

Again, please excuse any repetition on my part w/posting info's. etc. that may have been already posted on this subject by Timmy & other concerned folks.

Just wanted to share and get some of this research I am doing out there asap (schedule kicking in again).

This stuff gets more and more interesting.

Thank you

d.

http://question911.com

Ignorance of 9-11 is nothing to be proud of. We don't expect you to agree with everything these videos offer, but you should be able to discuss the issue in an intelligent manner with the help of this evidence.

[Hk]

...you guys are probing in stuff the G boys wouldnt approve of....naughty!

I believe that when you learn the nature of capitalist institutions events such as this are quite perdictable.....almost like those old B movies...when you know already what's going to happen.

European capitalist have proven they're only driven by wealth and power.

[mjoseph]

nicholas rockerfeller knew of 9-11?

so says aaron russos 'freedom to fascisim'

http://philadelphiaeddiestattoo.com/WordPress1/?p=14

Talk about concentrating power in corruptible human hands.

Meet your so called “invisible hand” of the markets, and shake his digital grip over your life–that he wants.

9-11 Insider Nicholas Rockefeller’s visible hands are seen three times over as the single controller of US Search, Zebasearch, and GlobalAgora. And that single controller of Nicholas Rockefeller is a 9-11 Insider–who Aaron Russo says is “obsessed” with global monitoring, and with creating a “papers please” fascist police state.

Find out about these three corporations below:

The Re-Visible Rockefeller Hand: the Private Global Panopticon as a Rockefeller family Enterprise, under Nicholas Rockefeller, 9-11 Insider

The Very Visible Nelson Rockefeller’s Invisible Panopticon: His United Nations Aired Ideas for a Private Proprietary Database and Technology for a Global Wireless Cashless Consumer Panopticon, all under Nicholas Rockefeller, a 9-11 Insider

The cashless society will be controlled by the Rockefellers, and it will be microwave based, wireless, and controlled off the phone tower network–if he has his way. China is his model. See what he is doing in China below, and see how there is huge synergy between his fingers and his minions’ fingers in the corporations US Search, Zebasearch, and GlobalAgora–all linked to him.

INTRODUCTION: NICHOLAS ROCKEFELLER AS 9-11 INSIDER ELEVEN MONTHS IN ADVANCE OR MORE

Nicholas Rockefeller predicted in early 2000 to a friend he found “un-recruitable to the CFR”, Aaron Russo (which probably led in the past several years for Russo to rush through making America: Freedom to Fascism), that an event would soon happen to allow for a Caspian pipeline, an Afghanistan invasion, and an Iraq invasion.

Eleven months later, Russo said, Nicholas Rockefeller got his wish: the 9-11 events happened and sure enough, soon there was a Caspian pipeline, an Afghanistan invasion, and an Iraq invasion.

Nicholas Rockefeller Predicted “Event” To Trigger War Eleven Months Before 9/11

Hollywood director Russo recalls remarkable “forecast” of coming attack

Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | October 28 2006

Hollywood director and documentary film maker Aaron Russo, currently receiving a wave of plaudits for his latest release, America: From Freedom to Fascism told The Alex Jones Show that Nicholas Rockefeller had personally assured him there was going to be an “event” that would trigger the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq eleven months before 9/11 took place.

Saying he had been approached many times by the Rockefellers and other members of the CFR elite in an attempt to recruit him, Russo recalled a conversation that would come home to roost on September 11, 2001.

“Here’s what I do know first hand - I know that about eleven months to a year before 9/11 ever happened I was talking to my Rockefeller friend (Nicholas Rockefeller) and he said to me ‘Aaron there’s gonna be an event’ and he never told me what the event was going to be - I’m not sure he knew what the event was going to be I don’t know that he knew that,” said Russo.

Russo related how Rockefeller knew precisely what the event would lead to and which countries would be militarily targeted by the elite.

“He just said there’s gonna be an event and out of that event we’re gonna invade Afghanistan so we can run pipelines through the Caspian sea, we can go into Iraq to take the oil and establish bases in the middle east and to make the middle east part of the new world order and we’re going to go after Venezuela - that’s what’s going to come out of this event.”

“Eleven months to a year later that’s what happened….he certainly knew that something was going to happen.”

“In my relationships with some of these people I can tell you that it’s as evil as it really gets - this is it - this is the game,” stated Russo - also relating how members of the elite were routinely obsessed by creating a world identification society where people had to carry ID cards and prove who they were at all times.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

nicholas rockerfeller knew of 9-11?

so says aaron russos 'freedom to fascisim'

http://philadelphiaeddiestattoo.com/WordPress1/?p=14

Talk about concentrating power in corruptible human hands.

Meet your so called “invisible hand” of the markets, and shake his digital grip over your life–that he wants.

9-11 Insider Nicholas Rockefeller’s visible hands are seen three times over as the single controller of US Search, Zebasearch, and GlobalAgora. And that single controller of Nicholas Rockefeller is a 9-11 Insider–who Aaron Russo says is “obsessed” with global monitoring, and with creating a “papers please” fascist police state.

Find out about these three corporations below:

The Re-Visible Rockefeller Hand: the Private Global Panopticon as a Rockefeller family Enterprise, under Nicholas Rockefeller, 9-11 Insider

The Very Visible Nelson Rockefeller’s Invisible Panopticon: His United Nations Aired Ideas for a Private Proprietary Database and Technology for a Global Wireless Cashless Consumer Panopticon, all under Nicholas Rockefeller, a 9-11 Insider

The cashless society will be controlled by the Rockefellers, and it will be microwave based, wireless, and controlled off the phone tower network–if he has his way. China is his model. See what he is doing in China below, and see how there is huge synergy between his fingers and his minions’ fingers in the corporations US Search, Zebasearch, and GlobalAgora–all linked to him.

INTRODUCTION: NICHOLAS ROCKEFELLER AS 9-11 INSIDER ELEVEN MONTHS IN ADVANCE OR MORE

Nicholas Rockefeller predicted in early 2000 to a friend he found “un-recruitable to the CFR”, Aaron Russo (which probably led in the past several years for Russo to rush through making America: Freedom to Fascism), that an event would soon happen to allow for a Caspian pipeline, an Afghanistan invasion, and an Iraq invasion.

Eleven months later, Russo said, Nicholas Rockefeller got his wish: the 9-11 events happened and sure enough, soon there was a Caspian pipeline, an Afghanistan invasion, and an Iraq invasion.

Nicholas Rockefeller Predicted “Event” To Trigger War Eleven Months Before 9/11

Hollywood director Russo recalls remarkable “forecast” of coming attack

Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | October 28 2006

Hollywood director and documentary film maker Aaron Russo, currently receiving a wave of plaudits for his latest release, America: From Freedom to Fascism told The Alex Jones Show that Nicholas Rockefeller had personally assured him there was going to be an “event” that would trigger the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq eleven months before 9/11 took place.

Saying he had been approached many times by the Rockefellers and other members of the CFR elite in an attempt to recruit him, Russo recalled a conversation that would come home to roost on September 11, 2001.

“Here’s what I do know first hand - I know that about eleven months to a year before 9/11 ever happened I was talking to my Rockefeller friend (Nicholas Rockefeller) and he said to me ‘Aaron there’s gonna be an event’ and he never told me what the event was going to be - I’m not sure he knew what the event was going to be I don’t know that he knew that,” said Russo.

Russo related how Rockefeller knew precisely what the event would lead to and which countries would be militarily targeted by the elite.

“He just said there’s gonna be an event and out of that event we’re gonna invade Afghanistan so we can run pipelines through the Caspian sea, we can go into Iraq to take the oil and establish bases in the middle east and to make the middle east part of the new world order and we’re going to go after Venezuela - that’s what’s going to come out of this event.”

“Eleven months to a year later that’s what happened….he certainly knew that something was going to happen.”

“In my relationships with some of these people I can tell you that it’s as evil as it really gets - this is it - this is the game,” stated Russo - also relating how members of the elite were routinely obsessed by creating a world identification society where people had to carry ID cards and prove who they were at all times.

That would be the late Aaron Russo.

[mjoseph]

That would be the late Aaron Russo.

correct, he passed not long after completion.

he also was the first to book led zeppelin in america ('electric circus' - chicago)

[Ndless Nite]

Bottom line is that the laws of physics went out the window on 9/11. Planes vaporized. Stell frame building collapsed at free fall speed. Thos e buildings fell faster than the people falling out the windows.

Bush doesn't believe in science. :)

[Moksha]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

Have you done any research? Can you explain how Building 7 fell when Buildings 3, 4, 5, 6 didn't and they were in the path of the towers pulverizing. Can you explain the small hole at the Pentagon before the floors collapsed there that supposedly a jumbo jet slammed into it? Can you explain the Shanksville crash, where there are no remnants of a crash there? Can you explain the training ops going on at exactly the same time of the attacks? Can you explain Bush Sr meeting with Bin Laden brother on the morning of the attacks? Can you explain why we would fly Bin Laden's family out of the US? Can you explain why an American run hospital would treat Osama after he SUPPOSEDLY blew up the US Cole? Can you explain how FOX news had so many eyewitnesses that they employed, to the first plane hitting the Tower. Can you explain why we only see amateur footage of the planes, except of course for the "live' shot which shows the nose coming out the other side of the tower in the second 'hit"?

Loose Change I believe was made to be debunked.

Moksha. Do the research. I know you are smarter than that.

[Armento]

http://www.911inplanesite.com/images2005/01_wtc7.jpg

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

http://www.911inplanesite.com/images2005/01_wtc7.jpg

Exactly. What hit it? It's a steel frame building which housed CIA info as well as Enron info. And a host of other things. But it fell at fre fall speed because it was hit by nothing. I grew up in the Bronx. Brick buildings on fire was an every week occurence. None ever collapsed. But like I said, physics went out the window on 9/11.

[Monny JcIntosh]

What do you mean by free fall speed? Why would you expect something to fall at a different rate when the force of gravity is constant?

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

What do you mean by free fall speed? Why would you expect something to fall at a different rate when the force of gravity is constant?

According to the "pancake theory' the floors collapsed. That would mean there was resistance. As we see, there wasn't. They fell as fast as buildings that are demolished. Is there any disputing that?

[Monny JcIntosh]

Same thing on the day of the London bombing. A training op was going on the same day dealing with a train bomb going off at the exact same station. These are some strange coincindences.

Which station? Can you proof this? If you could, is it significant? Do you know how often they have training operations dealing with terrorist scenarios on the tube?

If you don't have answers to these questions, ask yourself why you're so willing to believe there's a conspiracy without any proof.

[Monny JcIntosh]

According to the "pancake theory' the floors collapsed. That would mean there was resistance. As we see, there wasn't. They fell as fast as buildings that are demolished. Is there any disputing that?

I'm no expert on building demolitions, and I really couldn't tell you at what rate the buildings collapsed. What's the pancake theory? Why's it relevant here? How do you know what rate the buildings collapsed? How do you know what rate they ought to have collapsed? Are your answers to all these questions taken from conspiracy websites? If so, why's that?

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

I'm no expert on building demolitions, and I really couldn't tell you at what rate the buildings collapsed. What's the pancake theory? Why's it relevant here? How do you know what rate the buildings collapsed? How do you know what rate they ought to have collapsed? Are your answers to all these questions taken from conspiracy websites? If so, why's that?

http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/BBE/BilliardBalls.html

Do the research. Don't listen to me.

Look up the construction on the towers. Look at the construction of building 7.

The "official" comnspiracy theory does not hold water. It never happened before in the history of fires and steel buildings. In fact in 1993, I believe the fire lasted longer than the 2 on 9/11.

[Moksha]

Moksha. Do the research. I know you are smarter than that.

Right... because all the "smart" people think there is a conspiracy....

[martino]

Which station? Can you proof this? If you could, is it significant? Do you know how often they have training operations dealing with terrorist scenarios on the tube?

If you don't have answers to these questions, ask yourself why you're so willing to believe there's a conspiracy without any proof.

london: http://www.officialconfusion.com/77/drills/130705prisonplanetpowerresponds.html

very big list of US run-throughs with sources. Note all the listed events on day in question: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?before_9/11=militaryExercises&timeline=complete_911_timeline

[Moksha]

Re: freefall: Thus "stupid" people in academia always bringing their math and stuff to ruin the "smart" people's fun. Be sure to read Greenings report. (Though, I suppose you'll say he's "in on it" like the NIST, Popular Mechanics at 99% of academia.)

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Right... because all the "smart" people think there is a conspiracy....

Google and Youtube are your friends.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Re: freefall: Thus "stupid" people in academia always bringing their math and stuff to ruin the "smart" people's fun. Be sure to read Greenings report. (Though, I suppose you'll say he's "in on it" like the NIST, Popular Mechanics at 99% of academia.)

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

See that's the thing. While I have read that stuff you won't listen to the interview where the guys from Popular Mechanics was made to look like a fool so much he is banned from doing anymore interviews. Why/ Because he could not answer what they matched the DNA evidence OF ALL THE HIJACKERS (funny how they still finding dna to this day of the victims)to. Or how 2 planes vaporized but a hijacker's passport was conveniently found in the rubble. I may be dumb....but I know you ain't.

[martino]

There are so many coincidences to accept with regards to the official 9/11 reports.

Would you lump the constant attempts at curtailing your freedoms and privacy as just another coincidence? Or a natural side-effect?

here's a not-up-to-date list (wouldn't want to scare anyone):
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=lossofcivilliberties

Anyone benefitting from the aftermath of 911 is just benefitting by coincidence or is that just like a side-effect as well?

The problem as i see it, is that to be objective in this case you have to ignore the fact that those tragic events now allow someone to advance an agenda of power.

I find it very hard to understand how everyone can be against the war in Iraq and accept the fact that they were lied to in order to get their troops there, yet believe all the other shit related to "Al-Queda".





There exists a shadowy Government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of the national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself.
-- Sen. Inouye during Iran-contra hearings, 1987

[TAD]

Right... because all the "smart" people think there is a conspiracy....

come now don't be an asshole. you really believe a bunch of undertrained terrorists hijacked 4 jumbo jets with box cutters & then maneuvered 3 of those jumbo jets with the type of precision only very skilled pilots can accomplish? do you really believe that?

what about rockefellers confession to russo 9 months prior to the attacks. how do you explain that?

when there is a boot on the back of your neck (maybe you'll be one of the lucky wegroes to escape persecution) remember this thread. but you along with the other "smart people" i think are in serious denial.

[Moksha]

come now don't be an asshole. you really believe a bunch of undertrained terrorists hijacked 4 jumbo jets with box cutters & then maneuvered 3 of those jumbo jets with the type of precision only very skilled pilots can accomplish? do you really believe that?

what about rockefellers confession to russo 9 months prior to the attacks. how do you explain that?

when there is a boot on the back of your neck (maybe you'll be one of the lucky wegroes to escape persecution) remember this thread. but you along with the other "smart people" i think are in serious denial.

I didn't call myself "smart," that was TOT. (Does that make him the asshole?)

Russo was a nutcase. Taking anything he said as fact is a poor starting point.

Who do you think was piloting those planes?

So eager to make a conspiracy out of it, people lose all commen sense. The huge number of people who would have to be "in on it" is staggering. Not just pretty much all of the governmnet, the NIST, Popular mechanics and all of the media, the majority of academia, but also the thousands of witnesses in DC who saw the plane, the vast majority of emergency personnel on the scene, whose testimony consistently refutes the theorists (though they always mange to find the odd exception and make him a spokesman), etc., etc. The coverup would have to be so massive as to be impossible.

And who are the enlightened few who manage to see throught the deceit? Tax protestors and college kids on the internet, along with a few full-blown weirdos who find their jollies harassing Bill Mahr.

There is way more convincing evidence that the attacks happened pretty much as the mainstream theory posits it. So many of the socalled arguments are absolut b.s. From the freefall theory TOT stated above (which is disproved by physics).

If there was any chance that these conspiracy theories were true, way more journos, academics and politicians would be all over it.

To say that these people were smart enough to pull off the biggest job in history... smart enough to fool the country's greatest minds, but too dumb to get it by old Joe Blow with his tin foil hat is ludicrous.

Furthermore, the so-called gains from the extra powers the government gained would not be worth the risks of trying to do it.

There are just waaayyy too many holes.

And while you guys are hanging on every nutball word to come off the lips of Aaron Ruso, there are REAL conspiracies and attrocirties going on that you conspiracy theorists ignore while pretending to be amateur engineers.

Anyway, here's Noam Chomsky being more eloquent than me:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BzGd0t8v-d4&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BzGd0t8v-d4&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LoDqDvbgeXM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LoDqDvbgeXM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[Moksha]

P.S. I'm done with this thread. Arguing with "truthers" is as pointless as arguing with tax protestors and creationists. If you want to see my other thoughts on this, search the archives. Better yet, go read any of the thousands of reports that have disproven every single point that conspiracy people have made.

[alvin]

Where's the plane wreckage????

A Boeing 757???

Eyewitness accounts.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JZekosYOmXc&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JZekosYOmXc&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[Monny JcIntosh]

http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/BBE/BilliardBalls.html

Do the research. Don't listen to me.

Look up the construction on the towers. Look at the construction of building 7.

The "official" comnspiracy theory does not hold water. It never happened before in the history of fires and steel buildings. In fact in 1993, I believe the fire lasted longer than the 2 on 9/11.

You haven't presented a viable alternative to the official theory. All you've posted is a bunch of misinformation and a few unexplained factors, which inevitably accompany any event outside the lab. Your own conspiracy theory is well into the realm of the absurd - it not only provides misinformation by way of explanation of the "how", it requires a cast of hundreds, if not thousands, of individuals who keep quiet about an insane plot to accomplish something that would be much easier achieved by convincing a bunch of fanatics to fly some planes in the WTC and Pentagon.

The biggest mystery to me is why so many of you are so easily convinced by anything with the word "conspiracy" in the title.

[Monny JcIntosh]

london: http://www.officialconfusion.com/77/drills/130705prisonplanetpowerresponds.html

very big list of US run-throughs with sources. Note all the listed events on day in question: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?before_9/11=militaryExercises&timeline=complete_911_timeline

I haven't looked at the second link, but the first is ridiculous. I can't see any warrant for the conclusions drawn from the quote given.

For much the same reasons as Orion, I'm out of this. It's no more productive than an Alvin thread.

[Dolemite73]

P.S. I'm done with this thread. Arguing with "truthers" is as pointless as arguing with tax protestors and creationists. If you want to see my other thoughts on this, search the archives. Better yet, go read any of the thousands of reports that have disproven every single point that conspiracy people have made.

You have got to admit that there are too many weird things that happened that day, right? Separate of the actual building falling, too. To not question them and to accept the 9/11 commission as gospel would be asinine.
1. NORAD's shoddy handling of the situation.
2 How the news identified every last one of the hijackers within hours and had pictures of these mofos.
3. The president's actions that day.

Those are just 3 examples of many I could list totally separate of the actual buildings falling.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

You have got to admit that there are too many weird things that happened that day, right? Separate of the actual building falling, too. To not question them and to accept the 9/11 commission as gospel would be asinine.
1. NORAD's shoddy handling of the situation.
2 How the news identified every last one of the hijackers within hours and had pictures of these mofos.
3. The president's actions that day.

Those are just 3 examples of many I could list totally separate of the actual buildings falling.

Who appointed the 9/11 commission? This same commission did not even mention Building 7 in their report. And I surely haven't read any explanation that explains how a steel frame building with scattered fires fell in 6 secs right onto itself. I still have yet to see anyone explain the "passport", DNA evidence, and the list goes on. But hey I'm a nutcase.

PWW used to think truthers were nuts too until he drove by the Pentagon recently. His question was how can you get a plane that big that low and not hit the highway or anything else for that matter except the Pentagon. But he is a nut for questioning it I guess.

[Dolemite73]

Who appointed the 9/11 commission? This same commission did not even mention Building 7 in their report. And I surely haven't read any explanation that explains how a steel frame building with scattered fires fell in 6 secs right onto itself. I still have yet to see anyone explain the "passport", DNA evidence, and the list goes on. But hey I'm a nutcase.

PWW used to think truthers were nuts too until he drove by the Pentagon recently. His question was how can you get a plane that big that low and not hit the highway or anything else for that matter except the Pentagon. But he is a nut for questioning it I guess.

Supposedly, to hit the Pentagon where the plane supposedly did, it would have taken a superhuman to maneuver the plane to hit that building. We are talking 270 degree turns, with the associated g-forces and everything. For experienced pilots, I am sure it could be done. But by some cats who learned to fly in a simulator? Probably not.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Debunk this picture. And also understand that this is AFTER the floors collapsed. You may have to scroll to the right as this is a high quality picture. Yea a jumbo jet hit the building :conf44:

http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/images-pentagone/images/visites/visites1_grande.jpg

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

But hey an "eyewitness" said the wings of the plane folded up and got sucked into the building. He saw all of that while cruising along on the highway. Of course he works for Newsweek.

[TAD]

I didn't call myself "smart," that was TOT. (Does that make him the asshole?)

Russo was a nutcase. Taking anything he said as fact is a poor starting point.

Who do you think was piloting those planes?

So eager to make a conspiracy out of it, people lose all commen sense. The huge number of people who would have to be "in on it" is staggering. Not just pretty much all of the governmnet, the NIST, Popular mechanics and all of the media, the majority of academia, but also the thousands of witnesses in
DC who saw the plane, the vast majority of emergency personnel on the scene, whose testimony consistently refutes the theorists (though they always mange to find the odd exception and make him a spokesman), etc., etc. The coverup would have to be so massive as to be impossible.

And who are the enlightened few who manage to see throught the deceit? Tax protestors and college kids on the internet, along with a few full-blown weirdos who find their jollies harassing Bill Mahr.

There is way more convincing evidence that the attacks happened pretty much as the mainstream theory posits it. So many of the socalled arguments are absolut b.s. From the freefall theory TOT stated above (which is disproved by physics).

If there was any chance that these conspiracy theories were true, way more journos, academics and politicians would be all over it.

To say that these people were smart enough to pull off the biggest job in history... smart enough to fool the country's greatest minds, but too dumb to get it by old Joe Blow with his tin foil hat is ludicrous.

Furthermore, the so-called gains from the extra powers the government gained would not be worth the risks of trying to do it.

There are just waaayyy too many holes.

And while you guys are hanging on every nutball word to come off the lips of Aaron Ruso, there are REAL conspiracies and attrocirties going on that you conspiracy theorists ignore while pretending to be amateur engineers.

Anyway, here's Noam Chomsky being more eloquent than me:
more eloquent? he sounds more of a nutcase than russo. i mean c'mon what the hell is the point of this video?

"even if it were true, which is extremely unlikely, who cares? not anything significant...... plenty of people get killed all the time taking away from serious issues from the ones that don't matter"

the above is chomsky's quote. so basically what he's saying is that 3000 people's lives don't matter, even if it were true, it's not a serious issue because plenty of people get killed all the time. sounds like a heartless nutjob to me.

he never said it was impossible he said highly unlikely leaving the door wide open. his opinion is just that an opinion. you sound like the conspiracy nuts who will believe anything because they want to. he didn't say one thing that was factually related to 911 except focusing attention on how oppressive nations & regimes have benefitted from 911 making the us look like a vulnerable puppy that need to make tougher laws to fight terrorism. he actually referred to the us as a relatively non violent society. i mean is this guy for real? this is not the chomsky i know.

the idea that this operation was too big to hide from gov. & public scrutiny to me is not a strong enough argument. there are many different scenarios that could play out this attack. in any case if you were sworn to secrecy your life would not be what it is today. how can u possibly know how you would feel living under the constant pressure of death threats?

as far as not fooling the tin hat foilies, how can a job of this magnitude go off without a hitch. it's virtually impossible. how can you blow up three buildings and make it look like an accident without anyone noticing.

any moron who can count will not get more than 11 or 12 seconds on a stopwatch re: the freefall.
this http://www.911myths.com/html/freefall.html is BULLSHIT!!!
do you honestly think 5 seconds here or there is enough time to justify a pancake collapse. come on now, put the pipe down.

how can u explain the complete shutdown of secutiry to the towers weeks before 911, witnesses seeing people with large rolls of cabling. how do you explain the recent purchase of the towers and the large insurance coverage including acts of terrorism by plane added on to the policy. how do you explain these facts.

ok so let's say the pancake theory is true, that tower 7 collapsed because of fire, that the plane hitting the pentagon vaporized etc etc. how do you explain these other inconsistencies mentioned above as well as the norad fiasco, the bin ladens being ushered out of the country the day us airspace was off limits, the constant freudian slips by bush ex: "of course we're here to get sadaam ...err i mean osama bin laden" and so on.......

the likelihood that it was an outside job is not a sound argument simply because us airspace is impenetrable. nobody can deny that. plain & simple 911 has all the hallmarks of a false flag operation.

[Armento]

TAD... Noam is right. 3000 people is no big deal compared to what Americans have done. Don't you get it? a damn near million in Iraq dead.. 3000 is a droplet. Iraq was only 25 million. That's like a million dead in Californa

[TAD]

i think poeple don't want to believe their own country will do this to them even if they are not in line with the current gov. they cannot fathom the us becoming a police state, so they search and use academia as a comfort zone to dispell any notion of subversive behavior by their own gov. this applies to europeans as well who are well ahead of the game with respect to globalization.

[TAD]

TAD... Noam is right. 3000 people is no big deal compared to what Americans have done. Don't you get it? a damn near million in Iraq dead.. 3000 is a droplet. Iraq was only 25 million. That's like a million dead in Californa

the needs of the many............
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~touch/spock.jpg

[Ndless Nite]

A bit off topic, but within the same vein, let's not forget this recent NIE report that Iran hadn't worked on a nuke program in 4 years. Yet, this "threat" was/is being held over the head of America trying to rev things up for Iran.

Fear mongering. Had enough of it yet?

Back on topic. Let's not forget the PNAC document that said in order for the neo-cons to make all the changes they wanted, they would need a new Pearl Harbor type event. Which is exactly what they got. Just way too many coincidences to roll with the "official" story. There are some questions that do need to be answered.

[martino]

You haven't presented a viable alternative to the official theory. All you've posted is a bunch of misinformation and a few unexplained factors, which inevitably accompany any event outside the lab. Your own conspiracy theory is well into the realm of the absurd - it not only provides misinformation by way of explanation of the "how", it requires a cast of hundreds, if not thousands, of individuals who keep quiet about an insane plot to accomplish something that would be much easier achieved by convincing a bunch of fanatics to fly some planes in the WTC and Pentagon.

The biggest mystery to me is why so many of you are so easily convinced by anything with the word "conspiracy" in the title.

Hi Jonny. History points to conspiracies as being a regular thing when making important decisions. Operation Northwoods, Contragate, Reichstag etc.

I also don't understand how, and where people draw a line in their minds. Lying about saddam's WMD has led to thousands of dead American's. But making up a story about 911 is out of the question for some reason. I seriously don't get that.

The other thing i don't get is Everyone who constantly says it would take a huge number of people to be in on it. Why would it take so many people to be in on it? It only needs a few people with authority to allow it to happen.

At The very least, people should be open to the idea that the event was allowed to happen. The administrations behavior on/since 911 is enough to raise suspicion is it not?


I don't see how a popular mechanics article that relates to the physics of falling building cancels out all the other unanswered questions...whether NORAD standing down, to PROVEN Binladen connections with white house, to incorrect names of hijackers being released to the media etc etc.

And i'm not trying to be a smart ass when i say i don't get where do people draw the line when it comes to this stuff. I am truely baffled at how everyone now knows The administration continued to lie about Iraq. How many American lives is that war costing? Yet all the evidence on 911 is true, because, hey...why would they allow American lives to be lost?

When "nuts" say it was an inside job, they aren't talking about congress and open discussions. Theyre talking about a small group of people who come from a line of people that have considered this type of stuff before...made proposals even (operation northwoods was put on kennedy's table by his Dept. of Defence...proven).

So while many don't see a problem with the current administration trying to make confidential records permanently unclassifiable, while waging wars it can't win, others are trying to connect the dots and asking what's up with that.

[TAD]

Hi Jonny. History points to conspiracies as being a regular thing when making important decisions. Operation Northwoods, Contragate, Reichstag etc.

I also don't understand how, and where people draw a line in their minds. Lying about saddam's WMD has led to thousands of dead American's. But making up a story about 911 is out of the question for some reason. I seriously don't get that.

The other thing i don't get is Everyone who constantly says it would take a huge number of people to be in on it. Why would it take so many people to be in on it? It only needs a few people with authority to allow it to happen.

At The very least, people should be open to the idea that the event was allowed to happen. The administrations behavior on/since 911 is enough to raise suspicion is it not?


I don't see how a popular mechanics article that relates to the physics of falling building cancels out all the other unanswered questions...whether NORAD standing down, to PROVEN Binladen connections with white house, to incorrect names of hijackers being released to the media etc etc.

And i'm not trying to be a smart ass when i say i don't get where do people draw the line when it comes to this stuff. I am truely baffled at how everyone now knows The administration continued to lie about Iraq. How many American lives is that war costing? Yet all the evidence on 911 is true, because, hey...why would they allow American lives to be lost?

When "nuts" say it was an inside job, they aren't talking about congress and open discussions. Theyre talking about a small group of people who come from a line of people that have considered this type of stuff before...made proposals even (operation northwoods was put on kennedy's table by his Dept. of Defence...proven).

So while many don't see a problem with the current administration trying to make confidential records permanently unclassifiable, while waging wars it can't win, others are trying to connect the dots and asking what's up with that.
very valid points.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

more eloquent? he sounds more of a nutcase than russo. i mean c'mon what the hell is the point of this video?

"even if it were true, which is extremely unlikely, who cares? not anything significant...... plenty of people get killed all the time taking away from serious issues from the ones that don't matter"

the above is chomsky's quote. so basically what he's saying is that 3000 people's lives don't matter, even if it were true, it's not a serious issue because plenty of people get killed all the time. sounds like a heartless nutjob to me.

he never said it was impossible he said highly unlikely leaving the door wide open. his opinion is just that an opinion. you sound like the conspiracy nuts who will believe anything because they want to. he didn't say one thing that was factually related to 911 except focusing attention on how oppressive nations & regimes have benefitted from 911 making the us look like a vulnerable puppy that need to make tougher laws to fight terrorism. he actually referred to the us as a relatively non violent society. i mean is this guy for real? this is not the chomsky i know.

the idea that this operation was too big to hide from gov. & public scrutiny to me is not a strong enough argument. there are many different scenarios that could play out this attack. in any case if you were sworn to secrecy your life would not be what it is today. how can u possibly know how you would feel living under the constant pressure of death threats?

as far as not fooling the tin hat foilies, how can a job of this magnitude go off without a hitch. it's virtually impossible. how can you blow up three buildings and make it look like an accident without anyone noticing.

any moron who can count will not get more than 11 or 12 seconds on a stopwatch re: the freefall.
this http://www.911myths.com/html/freefall.html is BULLSHIT!!!
do you honestly think 5 seconds here or there is enough time to justify a pancake collapse. come on now, put the pipe down.

how can u explain the complete shutdown of secutiry to the towers weeks before 911, witnesses seeing people with large rolls of cabling. how do you explain the recent purchase of the towers and the large insurance coverage including acts of terrorism by plane added on to the policy. how do you explain these facts.

ok so let's say the pancake theory is true, that tower 7 collapsed because of fire, that the plane hitting the pentagon vaporized etc etc. how do you explain these other inconsistencies mentioned above as well as the norad fiasco, the bin ladens being ushered out of the country the day us airspace was off limits, the constant freudian slips by bush ex: "of course we're here to get sadaam ...err i mean osama bin laden" and so on.......

the likelihood that it was an outside job is not a sound argument simply because us airspace is impenetrable. nobody can deny that. plain & simple 911 has all the hallmarks of a false flag operation.

I gotta find the clip where Bush spoke about bombs going off in the towers then stuttering after he said it, to mean something else.

[alvin]

I gotta find the clip where Bush spoke about bombs going off in the towers then stuttering after he said it, to mean something else.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/USnxe7hxP4I&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/USnxe7hxP4I&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

I can't recall exactly when he made this speech, but I'm sure you can find it if you research enough.

the text to this speech was on the White House official website(don't know if it's still there) if I'm not mistaken.


More of Bushs' lies...

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tSBgGXoNgrQ&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tSBgGXoNgrQ&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sm73wOuPL60&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sm73wOuPL60&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/f_A77N5WKWM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/f_A77N5WKWM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Bush on "conspiracy theories"

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6K5M0xtxQVQ&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6K5M0xtxQVQ&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

"ALL HAIL THE CHIEF"

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Thanks. It's the first one

[cpBlvdEast]

http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/BBE/BilliardBalls.html

Do the research. Don't listen to me.

Look up the construction on the towers. Look at the construction of building 7.

The "official" comnspiracy theory does not hold water. It never happened before in the history of fires and steel buildings. In fact in 1993, I believe the fire lasted longer than the 2 on 9/11.

I don't understand how you can base your knowledge & absolute certainty on these theories from one "former" professor who's experience is listed as such:

1. 1999 to 2006 Dr. Wood has been an "assistant" professor in the Mechanical Engineering Department at Clemson University in Clemson, South Carolina

2. Spent "three" years as a postdoctoral research associate in the Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Tech

3. Dr. Wood is an expert in the use of moiré interferometry (A nondestructive technique, obtained by a plot of stress wave factor vs. the number of interference fringes, which provides data on axial displacement of a "laminate" at nominal stress) in other words.....has nothing to do with being an expert on structural engineering.

and of course

4. Dr. Wood is currently writing a book with Morgan Reynolds based on the physical evidence for understanding and explaining the events on 9/11. (Can you say $$$ing.)

Although she certainly is very educated, she has ZERO "experience" in the field of structural engineering. Furthermore, I find it funny that she has made such a profound discovery & yet all she could do is write a book? I wonder if she even tried to get other scientist to jump onboard her research studies to possibly make more of a public impact? Being so passionate about all this, wouldn't you?.

Like yourself, I have done plenty of research & we could all dispute over this subject till our faces turn blue & it won't matter because the sources are credible to those who believe in these theories & the rest are controlled by the government, therefore bullshit....right? Well if I had to make a "logical" decision as to what information has more credibility I would certainly choose to hear what 325 technical experts from private sectors & academia have to say versus 1 or 2 professors with nothing more than academic experience. ( http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm )

To answer your question....

How could the WTC towers have collapsed without a controlled demolition since no steel-frame, high-rise buildings have ever before or since been brought down due to fires? Temperatures due to fire don't get hot enough for buildings to collapse.

The collapse of the WTC towers was not caused either by a conventional building fire or even solely by the concurrent multi-floor fires that day. Instead, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large, jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires weakened the now susceptible structural steel. "No building in the United States has ever been subjected to the massive structural damage and concurrent multi-floor fires that the towers experienced on Sept. 11, 2001."

How does that "not hold water"? Could you counter argue their explanation? Just so you know, I'm not targeting you on this. I just can't understand why it's so difficult to accept the fact that our goverment/intelligence were complacent, incompetent & failed us on a historic level.



And just in case Tower 7 comes into question....

Why is the NIST investigation of the collapse of WTC 7 (the 47-story office building that collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001, hours after the towers) taking so long to complete? Is a controlled demolition hypothesis being considered to explain the collapse?

When NIST initiated the WTC investigation, it made a decision not to hire new staff to support the investigation. After the June 2004 progress report on the WTC investigation was issued, the NIST investigation team stopped working on WTC 7 and was assigned full-time through the fall of 2005 to complete the investigation of the WTC towers. With the release and dissemination of the report on the WTC towers in October 2005, the investigation of the WTC 7 collapse resumed. Considerable progress has been made since that time, including the review of nearly 80 boxes of new documents related to WTC 7, the development of detailed technical approaches for modeling and analyzing various collapse hypotheses, and the selection of a contractor to assist NIST staff in carrying out the analyses. It is anticipated that a draft report will be released for public comment by the end of 2007 and that the final report will be released in early 2008.

The current NIST working collapse hypothesis for WTC 7 is described in the June 2004 Progress Report on the Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster (Volume 1, page 17, as well as Appendix L), as follows:

An initial local failure occurred at the lower floors (below floor 13) of the building due to fire and/or debris-induced structural damage of a critical column (the initiating event) which supported a large-span floor bay with an area of about 2,000 square feet;

Vertical progression of the initial local failure occurred up to the east penthouse, and as the large floor bays became unable to redistribute the loads, it brought down the interior structure below the east penthouse; and

Triggered by damage due to the vertical failure, horizontal progression of the failure across the lower floors (in the region of floors 5 and 7 that were much thicker and more heavily reinforced than the rest of the floors) resulted in a disproportionate collapse of the entire structure.

This hypothesis may be supported or modified, or new hypotheses may be developed, through the course of the continuing investigation. NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements.

We'll just have to see what they find but I'm sure many of us have come to a conclusion on this one.

[Sal Paradise]

The Quite American on a much larger scale.

[TAD]

When NIST initiated the WTC investigation, it made a decision not to hire new staff to support the investigation......[things that make you go hmmmmmmmm]



An initial local failure occurred at the lower floors (below floor 13) of the building due to fire and/or debris-induced structural damage of a critical column (the initiating event) which supported a large-span floor bay with an area of about 2,000 square feet;

Vertical progression of the initial local failure occurred up to the east penthouse, and as the large floor bays became unable to redistribute the loads, it brought down the interior structure below the east penthouse; and

Triggered by damage due to the vertical failure, horizontal progression of the failure across the lower floors (in the region of floors 5 and 7 that were much thicker and more heavily reinforced than the rest of the floors) resulted in a disproportionate collapse of the entire structure.

This hypothesis may be supported or modified, or new hypotheses may be developed, through the course of the continuing investigation. NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse.

While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event.......

well they must be blind after reviewing the footage, and since nothing was left how could they possible form this ....uhhhhhh HYPOTHESES? gee that means it's like a theory right? it means they concocted this elaborate tale (well concocted is a loaded word but who gives a rats ass eh i'm a conspiracy nutjob) of what may have occurred. i like that it's extremely detailed & very descriptive. and they got all that info from a pile of rubble. and of course they found no evidence of a controlled demo but still want to look squeaky clean so they'll "consider whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse.....and they would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one" aww that's so nice of them. i'll be waiting just like you with bated breath. ok my turn pass the pipe!!

ok so a fire just so happened to be in exactly the right spot to cause a critical column failure that made the building come down like a controlled demolition.... here try my new bong!

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

I don't understand how you can base your knowledge & absolute certainty on these theories from one "former" professor who's experience is listed as such:

1. 1999 to 2006 Dr. Wood has been an "assistant" professor in the Mechanical Engineering Department at Clemson University in Clemson, South Carolina

2. Spent "three" years as a postdoctoral research associate in the Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Tech

3. Dr. Wood is an expert in the use of moiré interferometry (A nondestructive technique, obtained by a plot of stress wave factor vs. the number of interference fringes, which provides data on axial displacement of a "laminate" at nominal stress) in other words.....has nothing to do with being an expert on structural engineering.

and of course

4. Dr. Wood is currently writing a book with Morgan Reynolds based on the physical evidence for understanding and explaining the events on 9/11. (Can you say $$$ing.)

Although she certainly is very educated, she has ZERO "experience" in the field of structural engineering. Furthermore, I find it funny that she has made such a profound discovery & yet all she could do is write a book? I wonder if she even tried to get other scientist to jump onboard her research studies to possibly make more of a public impact? Being so passionate about all this, wouldn't you?.

Like yourself, I have done plenty of research & we could all dispute over this subject till our faces turn blue & it won't matter because the sources are credible to those who believe in these theories & the rest are controlled by the government, therefore bullshit....right? Well if I had to make a "logical" decision as to what information has more credibility I would certainly choose to hear what 325 technical experts from private sectors & academia have to say versus 1 or 2 professors with nothing more than academic experience. ( http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm )

To answer your question....

How could the WTC towers have collapsed without a controlled demolition since no steel-frame, high-rise buildings have ever before or since been brought down due to fires? Temperatures due to fire don't get hot enough for buildings to collapse.

The collapse of the WTC towers was not caused either by a conventional building fire or even solely by the concurrent multi-floor fires that day. Instead, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large, jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires weakened the now susceptible structural steel. "No building in the United States has ever been subjected to the massive structural damage and concurrent multi-floor fires that the towers experienced on Sept. 11, 2001."

How does that "not hold water"? Could you counter argue their explanation? Just so you know, I'm not targeting you on this. I just can't understand why it's so difficult to accept the fact that our goverment/intelligence were complacent, incompetent & failed us on a historic level.



And just in case Tower 7 comes into question....

Why is the NIST investigation of the collapse of WTC 7 (the 47-story office building that collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001, hours after the towers) taking so long to complete? Is a controlled demolition hypothesis being considered to explain the collapse?

When NIST initiated the WTC investigation, it made a decision not to hire new staff to support the investigation. After the June 2004 progress report on the WTC investigation was issued, the NIST investigation team stopped working on WTC 7 and was assigned full-time through the fall of 2005 to complete the investigation of the WTC towers. With the release and dissemination of the report on the WTC towers in October 2005, the investigation of the WTC 7 collapse resumed. Considerable progress has been made since that time, including the review of nearly 80 boxes of new documents related to WTC 7, the development of detailed technical approaches for modeling and analyzing various collapse hypotheses, and the selection of a contractor to assist NIST staff in carrying out the analyses. It is anticipated that a draft report will be released for public comment by the end of 2007 and that the final report will be released in early 2008.

The current NIST working collapse hypothesis for WTC 7 is described in the June 2004 Progress Report on the Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster (Volume 1, page 17, as well as Appendix L), as follows:

An initial local failure occurred at the lower floors (below floor 13) of the building due to fire and/or debris-induced structural damage of a critical column (the initiating event) which supported a large-span floor bay with an area of about 2,000 square feet;

Vertical progression of the initial local failure occurred up to the east penthouse, and as the large floor bays became unable to redistribute the loads, it brought down the interior structure below the east penthouse; and

Triggered by damage due to the vertical failure, horizontal progression of the failure across the lower floors (in the region of floors 5 and 7 that were much thicker and more heavily reinforced than the rest of the floors) resulted in a disproportionate collapse of the entire structure.

This hypothesis may be supported or modified, or new hypotheses may be developed, through the course of the continuing investigation. NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements.

We'll just have to see what they find but I'm sure many of us have come to a conclusion on this one.

Can you discuss the photo I posted OR the fact that the DNA of the hijackers was gotten from the rubbles of all 4 "plane crashes"? While you are at it, explain what they matched it against. At this point I won't even ask you to explain the passport that was found of one of the "hijackers". But I'll give you extra credit if you do.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

ok so a fire just so happened to be in exactly the right spot to cause a critical column failure that made the building come down like a controlled demolition.... here try my new bong!

3 times. By their theory, the top of the building which we all saw break off, should have still toppled over. But, no sign of it. It got pulverized. The dust was so fine, my car 8 -10 miles away, had dust on it in Brooklyn, shortly after the collapse. And if the official theory is that the load of the plane helped the collapse, then where is the plane? Shouldn't that load still be there since it caused the collapse.

And that must have been some heavy debris that hit 7.

[Soul Simple]

You guys need to check out this zeitgeist movie as well...

It mentions the religious conspiracy

911 Conspiracy

and speaks of Secret Societies and the Federal reservr bank and the North American treaty...and the changing of our current monetary system to that of the AMERO!!...it's very interesting.....

THINGS THAT MAKE YOU GO HMMMMMMMMM!!

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

You guys need to check out this zeitgeist movie as well...

It mentions the religious conspiracy

911 Conspiracy

and speaks of Secret Societies and the Federal reservr bank and the North American treaty...and the changing of our current monetary system to that of the AMERO!!...it's very interesting.....

THINGS THAT MAKE YOU GO HMMMMMMMMM!!

Search the archives and you'll find our discussions on that movie.

[cpBlvdEast]

well they must be blind after reviewing the footage, and since nothing was left how could they possible form this ....uhhhhhh HYPOTHESES? gee that means it's like a theory right? it means they concocted this elaborate tale (well concocted is a loaded word but who gives a rats ass eh i'm a conspiracy nutjob) of what may have occurred. i like that it's extremely detailed & very descriptive. and they got all that info from a pile of rubble. and of course they found no evidence of a controlled demo but still want to look squeaky clean so they'll "consider whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse.....and they would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one" aww that's so nice of them. i'll be waiting just like you with bated breath. ok my turn pass the pipe!!

ok so a fire just so happened to be in exactly the right spot to cause a critical column failure that made the building come down like a controlled demolition.... here try my new bong!



"i like that it's extremely detailed & very descriptive. and they got all that info from a pile of rubble."

Who said they based all their information & findings on just a pile of rubble?




"ok so a fire just so happened to be in exactly the right spot to cause a critical column failure that made the building come down like a controlled demolition!"

Who said it was just a fire? Lets look at this again.

An initial local failure occurred at the lower floors (below floor 13) of the building due to fire "AND/OR" debris-induced structural damage of a critical column (the initiating event) <-------Very important. They mean it's what started it not what caused it. There is a difference.


"building come down like a controlled demolition.... here try my new bong!"

OK. But I'm smokin my own shit.

Do you know what's involved in controlled demolitions? What preparations need to be made in order for a building of that size to come down? Do you know how many pounds of explosives would be needed to do this? Do you know how those explosives need to be placed in order for it to work?

Like I said, It dosen't matter. Some of us have come to our own conclusions already.

[TAD]

lol, the most powerful nation on earth doesn't have enough explosives to blow up a few large buildings. the most powerful nation on earth which has subdued nations worldwide ad nauseum does not have the capability to fly a few planes into buildings. the most powerful nation on earth that dropped 2 atomic bombs and holds the worlds largest nuclear arsenal, has sent men to the moon, probles to mars satellites into deep space, currently houses a space station revolving the earth, has conducted thousands of covert operations that would obviously form a very comprehensive guide & resource to pulling the ultimate con obviously can't do it because it's too massive an operation. PUFF & PASS!!!!

[cpBlvdEast]

3 times. By their theory, the top of the building which we all saw break off, should have still toppled over. But, no sign of it. It got pulverized. The dust was so fine, my car 8 -10 miles away, had dust on it in Brooklyn, shortly after the collapse. And if the official theory is that the load of the plane helped the collapse, then where is the plane? Shouldn't that load still be there since it caused the collapse.

And that must have been some heavy debris that hit 7.



"By their theory, the top of the building which we all saw break off, should have still toppled over."

Why should it of toppled over?





"It got pulverized. The dust was so fine, my car 8 -10 miles away, had dust on it in Brooklyn, shortly after the collapse."

So it must of been a controlled demolition! Wind can't do this.





"And if the official theory is that the load of the plane helped the collapse, then where is the plane? Shouldn't that load still be there since it caused the collapse."


WOW. Can you find me where they said " the LOAD of the plane helped the collapse"

It's amazing how information that is clearly layed out are taken out of context or misunderstood.

[cpBlvdEast]

lol, the most powerful nation on earth doesn't have enough explosives to blow up a few large buildings. the most powerful nation on earth which has subdued nations worldwide ad nauseum does not have the capability to fly a few planes into buildings. the most powerful nation on earth that dropped 2 atomic bombs and holds the worlds largest nuclear arsenal, has sent men to the moon, probles to mars satellites into deep space, currently houses a space station revolving the earth, has conducted thousands of covert operations that would obviously form a very comprehensive guide & resource to pulling the ultimate con obviously can't do it because it's too massive an operation. PUFF & PASS!!!!


That's what I figured. Not one of the questions answered & for backup let's quote what I do know. Yeah....You sound like you know your shit. You win.


Just so you know, I wasn't asking whether or not we were capable of doing it.

[TAD]

"Do you know what's involved in controlled demolitions? What preparations need to be made in order for a building of that size to come down? Do you know how many pounds of explosives would be needed to do this? Do you know how those explosives need to be placed in order for it to work?"

basically what you're saying here is it's an impossible feat. so, are you saying it's impossible, improbable or that you only believe it didn't happen the way the nuts claim it did because you feel the EVIDENCE speaks otherwise.

what points would you like me to answer? i'd like to see some EVIDENCE of what they are HYPOTHESIZING!!

personally i've seen more than my share from both sides of the fence & have drawn my own conclusions.

[cpBlvdEast]

"Do you know what's involved in controlled demolitions? What preparations need to be made in order for a building of that size to come down? Do you know how many pounds of explosives would be needed to do this? Do you know how those explosives need to be placed in order for it to work?"

basically what you're saying here is it's an impossible feat. so, are you saying it's impossible, improbable or that you only believe it didn't happen the way the nuts claim it did because you feel the EVIDENCE speaks otherwise.

what points would you like me to answer? i'd like to see some EVIDENCE of what they are HYPOTHESIZING!!

personally i've seen more than my share from both sides of the fence & have drawn my own conclusions.

I'm not saying it's impossible, improbable or anything of that sort. I'm asking you how much do you know about controlled demolitions?

[TAD]

I'm not saying it's impossible, improbable or anything of that sort. I'm asking you how much do you know about controlled demolitions?

well the tone of your statment implies that it would be too massive an operation to pull off. am i correct?

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Hey cpl. How bout explaining the Pentagon pic I posted OR the DNA question I have. Thanks.

[jimmymack-2000]

I also don't understand how, and where people draw a line in their minds. Lying about saddam's WMD has led to thousands of dead American's.

A slight quibble here: while the Niger yellowcake acquisition document may have been a forgery, Saddam did indeed possess WMDs, mostly nerve toxins (Sarin and VX), probably enough to depopulate Israel if he had a reliable delivery mechanism.

Carry on.

[jimmymack-2000]

lol, the most powerful nation on earth...has sent men to the moon

You really believe that dawg? Everyone knows it was filmed on Lot 18 at MGM Studio City...

[jimmymack-2000]

P.S. The intact passport can perhaps be explained by the same phenomenon that sees twisters/tornados devestate a neighborhood and tear down seemingly solid structures, but pass over a baby with relatively little harm done:

<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303767,00.html">EXAMPLE</a>

[cpBlvdEast]

well the tone of your statment implies that it would be too massive an operation to pull off. am i correct?

No. Again, I'm only asking what you know about controlled demolitions. What's involved in bringing down a building? What kind of explosives are needed? How much of it? What preperations need to take place before setting off the charges?

To respond & say "I don't know....don't care...that shits irrelavant to the topic" would be ignorant & assanine especially since the claim is that it was a controlled demolition.

To respond & say " Yes I do know" Would be shocking cause if you knew what was involved to bring down a steel building with such precision you would also have to acknowledge how such a thing could be pulled off without anyone noticing it.

[travy]

A slight quibble here: while the Niger yellowcake acquisition document may have been a forgery, Saddam did indeed possess WMDs, mostly nerve toxins (Sarin and VX), probably enough to depopulate Israel if he had a reliable delivery mechanism.

Carry on.

yeah but sanctions and weapons inspections had his stocks depleted long before the second invasion...

[TAD]

No. Again, I'm only asking what you know about controlled demolitions. What's involved in bringing down a building? What kind of explosives are needed? How much of it? What preperations need to take place before setting off the charges?

To respond & say "I don't know....don't care...that shits irrelavant to the topic" would be ignorant & assanine especially since the claim is that it was a controlled demolition.

To respond & say " Yes I do know" Would be shocking cause if you knew what was involved to bring down a steel building with such precision you would also have to acknowledge how such a thing could be pulled off without anyone noticing it.

so i'm right you don't think it could be pulled off. you're using logic when the human spirit (yes evil is part of the human spirit) and its ability to achieve anything by any means sometimes defies simple academic logic. this shit is more powerful than you or i and to sit here and claim you have a deeper understanding of what's going on because you have knowledge of controlled demo's is absurd.

[TAD]

P.S. The intact passport can perhaps be explained by the same phenomenon that sees twisters/tornados devestate a neighborhood and tear down seemingly solid structures, but pass over a baby with relatively little harm done:

<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303767,00.html">EXAMPLE</a>

not buying it.

[TAD]

holy terror batman we've reached 666views on this thread!!!!!:scared:

[jimmymack-2000]

yeah but sanctions and weapons inspections had his stocks depleted long before the second invasion...

This appears to be true...I remember all the press in 2002/2003 about "mobile Sarin labs", eighteen-wheelers that could churn out tons of nerve gas and move about constantly to avoid detection. That appears to have been B.S.

[martino]

You really believe that dawg? Everyone knows it was filmed on Lot 18 at MGM Studio City...

I was gonna say TAD's faking his tin foil hat credentials talking that moon landing stuff lol

[martino]

A slight quibble here: while the Niger yellowcake acquisition document may have been a forgery, Saddam did indeed possess WMDs, mostly nerve toxins (Sarin and VX), probably enough to depopulate Israel if he had a reliable delivery mechanism.

Carry on.

You know the average westerner could give a rats ass about that. Because, (as you know) when Jesus comes back, he's supposed do about the same amount of damage.

Thanks...I'm here all week, try the veal.

The real mystery is why the military don't just bury a giant missile and go "LOOK WE FOUND IT!"

[djmarbll]

I didn't call myself "smart," that was TOT. (Does that make him the asshole?)

Russo was a nutcase. Taking anything he said as fact is a poor starting point.

Who do you think was piloting those planes?

So eager to make a conspiracy out of it, people lose all commen sense. The huge number of people who would have to be "in on it" is staggering. Not just pretty much all of the governmnet, the NIST, Popular mechanics and all of the media, the majority of academia, but also the thousands of witnesses in DC who saw the plane, the vast majority of emergency personnel on the scene, whose testimony consistently refutes the theorists (though they always mange to find the odd exception and make him a spokesman), etc., etc. The coverup would have to be so massive as to be impossible.

And who are the enlightened few who manage to see throught the deceit? Tax protestors and college kids on the internet, along with a few full-blown weirdos who find their jollies harassing Bill Mahr.

There is way more convincing evidence that the attacks happened pretty much as the mainstream theory posits it. So many of the socalled arguments are absolut b.s. From the freefall theory TOT stated above (which is disproved by physics).

If there was any chance that these conspiracy theories were true, way more journos, academics and politicians would be all over it.

To say that these people were smart enough to pull off the biggest job in history... smart enough to fool the country's greatest minds, but too dumb to get it by old Joe Blow with his tin foil hat is ludicrous.

Furthermore, the so-called gains from the extra powers the government gained would not be worth the risks of trying to do it.

There are just waaayyy too many holes.

And while you guys are hanging on every nutball word to come off the lips of Aaron Ruso, there are REAL conspiracies and attrocirties going on that you conspiracy theorists ignore while pretending to be amateur engineers.

Anyway, here's Noam Chomsky being more eloquent than me:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BzGd0t8v-d4&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BzGd0t8v-d4&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LoDqDvbgeXM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LoDqDvbgeXM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

As much as I respect and study Noam Chomsky, at the end of the day, he's offering his opinion just like anyone else. Moreover, as intelligent and eloquent as Chomsky is, I'd still value an eyewitness account of the events of 9/11 over Chomsky.

[djmarbll]

Who appointed the 9/11 commission? This same commission did not even mention Building 7 in their report. And I surely haven't read any explanation that explains how a steel frame building with scattered fires fell in 6 secs right onto itself. I still have yet to see anyone explain the "passport", DNA evidence, and the list goes on. But hey I'm a nutcase.

PWW used to think truthers were nuts too until he drove by the Pentagon recently. His question was how can you get a plane that big that low and not hit the highway or anything else for that matter except the Pentagon. But he is a nut for questioning it I guess.

In addition, people seem to think it takes many people for a conspiracy to work. It only takes two by definition. Everybody else involved could be just as out of the loop as the general public, which is how most conspiracies have happened anyway. I don't believe all the issues Loose Change brought up, nor do I agree with all the issues Screw Loose Change, Popular Mechanics, or randiboards have tried to disprove regarding 9/11. All I know is there are too many unexplained coincidences for an event like 9/11 to just randomly happen. And NO ONE has been able to disprove on ANY website how America, with the best military in the world, let at least three commercial airlines go astray all around the same time and then let another plane fly over the White House. It doesn't take a conspiracy nut to see something wrong, just some common sense.

[cpBlvdEast]

so i'm right you don't think it could be pulled off. you're using logic when the human spirit (yes evil is part of the human spirit) and its ability to achieve anything by any means sometimes defies simple academic logic. this shit is more powerful than you or i and to sit here and claim you have a deeper understanding of what's going on because you have knowledge of controlled demo's is absurd.

No! What's absurd is to claim the building fell using controlled demo's as a result of the "evil human spirit" and state the claim without ANY knowledge on how controlled demo works yet reassured evil humans did it.

[cpBlvdEast]

In addition, people seem to think it takes many people for a conspiracy to work. It only takes two by definition. Everybody else involved could be just as out of the loop as the general public, which is how most conspiracies have happened anyway. I don't believe all the issues Loose Change brought up, nor do I agree with all the issues Screw Loose Change, Popular Mechanics, or randiboards have tried to disprove regarding 9/11. All I know is there are too many unexplained coincidences for an event like 9/11 to just randomly happen. And NO ONE has been able to disprove on ANY website how America, with the best military in the world, let at least three commercial airlines go astray all around the same time and then let another plane fly over the White House. It doesn't take a conspiracy nut to see something wrong, just some common sense.


"And NO ONE has been able to disprove on ANY website how America, with the best military in the world, let at least three commercial airlines go astray all around the same time and then let another plane fly over the White House."

Yes. For a conspiracy theory, I buy the "Our goverment knew it was about to happen & LET it happen" theory over the controlled demo's bullshit. It's like, why ram planes into the buildings if you had bombs in there anyway.

[DJ Loka]

'research'


if google didnt exist, how would all this research happen?

:biglaugha: our country runs on money. blowing up wall st could only make sense to an ENEMY wanting to slow down our economic importance.

damn, i tried to stay out of this thread:cussing:

[TAD]

why ram planes into the buildings if you had bombs in there anyway.

that's kinda obvious isn't it?

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

'research'


if google didnt exist, how would all this research happen?

:biglaugha: our country runs on money. blowing up wall st could only make sense to an ENEMY wanting to slow down our economic importance.

damn, i tried to stay out of this thread:cussing:

Yea. The terrorists sure wanted to get rid of all that Enron evidence that was in Building 7.

[TAD]

No! What's absurd is to claim the building fell using controlled demo's as a result of the "evil human spirit" and state the claim without ANY knowledge on how controlled demo works yet reassured evil humans did it.
so evil humans had nothing to do with this?

[cpBlvdEast]

that's kinda obvious isn't it?

No. It makes no sense. What's obvious is that two planes rammed into the towers & caused a considerable amount of damage. Thats it.

[cpBlvdEast]

so evil humans had nothing to do with this?

Do with what? Bringing down tower 7? NO

Evil humans crashed planes into WTC? Yes

[TAD]

Do with what? Bringing down tower 7? NO

Evil humans crashed planes into WTC? Yes
indeed they did. at least we can agree on something. have a safe weekend. :)

[mjoseph]

Russo was a nutcase. Taking anything he said as fact is a poor starting point.



back it up

[cpBlvdEast]

indeed they did. at least we can agree on something. have a safe weekend. :)

You see! There is hope after all. Seriously, I respect your opinions. Good discussion regardless of our point of views. Peace & love bro!

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

P.S. The intact passport can perhaps be explained by the same phenomenon that sees twisters/tornados devestate a neighborhood and tear down seemingly solid structures, but pass over a baby with relatively little harm done:

EXAMPLE (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303767,00.html)

You are comparing a twister/tornado to supposed jet fuel burning? These explanations are almost comedic.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

"By their theory, the top of the building which we all saw break off, should have still toppled over."

Why should it of toppled over?





"

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/911-south-tower-collapse.jpg

[cpBlvdEast]

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/911-south-tower-collapse.jpg




OK....I'm lost now. You said "By their theory, the top of the building which we all saw break off, should have still toppled over."

now your showing me the south tower toppling over.....whats your point again?

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

OK....I'm lost now. You said "By their theory, the top of the building which we all saw break off, should have still toppled over."

now your showing me the south tower toppling over.....whats your point again?

The top of the building is falling over. What righted it to follow the path of the rest of the collapse without it breaking off by itself ? Where do you live by the way?

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

No. Again, I'm only asking what you know about controlled demolitions. What's involved in bringing down a building? What kind of explosives are needed? How much of it? What preperations need to take place before setting off the charges?

To respond & say "I don't know....don't care...that shits irrelavant to the topic" would be ignorant & assanine especially since the claim is that it was a controlled demolition.

To respond & say " Yes I do know" Would be shocking cause if you knew what was involved to bring down a steel building with such precision you would also have to acknowledge how such a thing could be pulled off without anyone noticing it.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NHJHAp49Lh8&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NHJHAp49Lh8&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[jimmymack-2000]

You are comparing a twister/tornado to supposed jet fuel burning? These explanations are almost comedic.

Well, not quite. I am comparing the kinetic energy and attendant displacement of air caused by a plane crash and explosion with the effects of a tornado. The burning jet fuel may never have come anywhere near the passport.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Well, not quite. I am comparing the kinetic energy and attendant displacement of air caused by a plane crash and explosion with the effects of a tornado. The burning jet fuel may never have come anywhere near the passport.

I don't know whether you are joking or serious. BTW didnt the "hijackers" use fake passports to get on the "planes". I suppose the DNA to match against was in the passport as well. :conf06:

Come on man. How convenient that everything was pulverized except for the "hijacker's" passport.

[alvin]

Has anyone read the 9-11 Commission Report?

The report states that there was absolutely "no evidence" of explosives being in the WTC...

and then they go on to state that there was "no testing" for the presence of explosives in the WTC.

This fact is buried deep within the report and is mentioned flippantly.

The report is a well crafted scam.

Full of bell's and whistles... fancy language...and cool color graphics....everything the general public craves...

Do some research on the members of the 9-11 Commission, they are all tied in to overlapping groups(C.F.R., Iraq Study Group, various law firms etc.)

http://www.9-11commission.gov/about/bios.htm

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Has anyone read the 9-11 Commission Report?

The report states that there was absolutely "no evidence" of explosives being in the WTC...

and then they go on to state that there was "no testing" for the presence of explosives in the WTC.

This fact is buried deep within the report and is mentioned flippantly.

The report is a well crafted scam.

Full of bell's and whistles... fancy language...and cool color graphics....everything the general public craves...

Do some research on the members of the 9-11 Commission, they are all tied in to overlapping groups(C.F.R., Iraq Study Group, various law firms etc.)

http://www.9-11commission.gov/about/bios.htm

9/11 commission is a joke. New track by Public Enemy.

They didn't even put Building 7 in the report. How can anyone take them seriously? And look how long before they were appointed.

[alvin]

9/11 commission is a joke. New track by Public Enemy.

They didn't even put Building 7 in the report. How can anyone take them seriously? And look how long before they were appointed.

They had to make sure they got their lies straight...there was a lot of information they had access to(black boxes from the planes, surveillance video, etc) and they had to carefully sift through it, but their front man(Bush) let the game out of the bag with his confusing statements almost immediately following the "terror attack".

[martino]

1hr and 20 minutes after NY is under attack, and a plane is able to fly over washington and hit the pentagon.

ONE HOUR and TWENTY minutes go by since a nation is under attack and a plane is allowed to fly into the Capitol city's air space.

Anthrax, Black Boxes, debris-less plane crash, fake/planted journalists in the white house press, patriot act, lies about how no one imagined planes could be used as weapons (rice and rummy both caught red handed with that one), the administrations reluctancy to authorize an investigation, on and on and on.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

1hr and 20 minutes after NY is under attack, and a plane is able to fly over washington and hit the pentagon.

ONE HOUR and TWENTY minutes go by since a nation is under attack and a plane is allowed to fly into the Capitol city's air space.

Anthrax, Black Boxes, debris-less plane crash, fake/planted journalists in the white house press, patriot act, lies about how no one imagined planes could be used as weapons (rice and rummy both caught red handed with that one), the administrations reluctancy to authorize an investigation, on and on and on.

And on and on. Oh..you left out duct tape. BTW if there are no planes NORAD has no reason to deploy.

[Nige55]

just got this link sent to me here today. I'm not taking a stance either way, just simply wanted to share this with you, if you haven't seen it already.-

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2007/120407_common_knowledge.htm

[Ndless Nite]

How many coincidences does one need before they re-examine the events before/during/after this whole mess? I just don't see how you can't want to know more after seeing all the information presented.