Is House Music Not A Part of Music's Mainstream?

[BariRed]

Hello Everyone,

I was talking to a well-known local DJ here in Washington, DC about perhaps producing some tracks for me. His response was, “there is no longer a significant demand for house/garage music like it was in the eighties and nineties”. I asked him why, and he said it is mainly due to the popularity of HIP-HOP and the evolution of music as a whole. I was sad and sidetracked all at once. Now, I’m bringing this question to you guys, because I know this forum brings together some very talented and knowledgeable musicians and DJs alike. Do you guys think that house is no longer a significant part of the mainstream musical roister? I personally feel that with the right tracks and the right marketing push, HOUSE MUSIC CAN and WILL be a household name again. Am I a dreamer or optimistic?

[Phyllis Hyman Cherry]

It would be great for it to be mainstream.But remember anything mainstream will be watered down.It's just to a point right now where im just excepting things and people for who and what they are.House Music may never go mainstream,and it's okay.

[chldfknungrnd764]

It would be great for it to be mainstream.But remember anything mainstream will be watered down.It's just to a point right now where im just excepting things and people for who and what they are.House Music may never go mainstream,and it's okay.

Remember some forms of House in the 90s that fell into the mainstream label?:icon130:

I agree with ya on your statements PHC.

[AD]

Thanks to a dick fuck by the name of Steve Dahl he made it nearly impossible for Dance music to be mainstream and the king that it once was on the air. It's a shame but that's how it is.

[dcook]

House music will never die......

to quote the great GSH

"the world is just a simple circle.........and it keeps on turning....."


house will resurge yet again

and again

and again
and again

[chldfknungrnd764]

House music will never die......

to quote the great GSH

"the world is just a simple circle.........and it keeps on turning....."


house will resurge yet again

and again

and again
and again

Not waiting on the world to love us, we get props from the "underground culture"!:respent:

[Myron]

Hello Everyone,

I was talking to a well-known local DJ here in Washington, DC about perhaps producing some tracks for me. His response was, “there is no longer a significant demand for house/garage music like it was in the eighties and nineties”. I asked him why, and he said it is mainly due to the popularity of HIP-HOP and the evolution of music as a whole. I was sad and sidetracked all at once. Now, I’m bringing this question to you guys, because I know this forum brings together some very talented and knowledgeable musicians and DJs alike. Do you guys think that house is no longer a significant part of the mainstream musical roister? I personally feel that with the right tracks and the right marketing push, HOUSE MUSIC CAN and WILL be a household name again. Am I a dreamer or optimistic?

There's been a lot of discussion on this topic in the past on DHP. Use the Search function and you'll see how this discussion went down in the past.

[larry rauson]

House music will never see any kind of mainstream acceptance unless three things happen

1. Music must be produced for the people who spend money on music, music they can listen to in the living room, not for the club goers, the people who think their ten dollars at the door is a real contribution to the scene, not for the dancers, the people who buy the five dollar bootlegs, and not for the dance floor. I've never seen a dance floor buy a cd.

2. Producers and artists must tighten up their technical and musical skills, quality is the most important factor in commercial viability. Pop, (mainstream) records are perfect. House records are not(mostly)

3. An organized group that represents the interests of artists, producers, and writers is formed, funded, and recognized by members of the house community, that acts as an internal clearinghouse, ie , quality control, promotes our product, and lobbies media, and retail outlets to carry our product.


lpr

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Thanks to a dick fuck by the name of Steve Dahl he made it nearly impossible for Dance music to be mainstream and the king that it once was on the air. It's a shame but that's how it is.

I don't think Steve Dahl had anything to do with the Demise of House Music's radio presense in the early 90s. Stations in New York, Chicago, and The San Franscisco Bay Area all supported House Music, and by 1995 they were gone. The music was replaced by Hip Hop shows, and stations such as WBLS and KISS damn near abandoned the music all together. I know when I was living in California, KMEL, and KYLD brought back House Music shows which was great, but the support for the "Deep" stuff had dwindled.

Peace

[FK]

Tryin' to keep it in historical perspective...

If someone went to a producer in 1974, asking him to produce a Duke Ellington-style big-band album, don't you
think the producer would have been far more motivated to make a funk record that was like Herbie Hancock or Sly Stone?

Things evolve. While there's nothing wrong with staying attached to any particular sound, it's obvious that historically,
this has never, ever been what the younger generations wanted. Like it or not, they are the ones who determine what's popular.

Depends if you are trying to make a record for your own satisfaction, or for other people. Either way is fine with me, really.

Just sayin'..

FK

[JMJ]

Thanks to a dick fuck by the name of Steve Dahl he made it nearly impossible for Dance music to be mainstream and the king that it once was on the air. It's a shame but that's how it is.

Steve Dahl had nothing to do with it. Disco had already gone mainstream AND had "jumped the shark" before the irrelevant Disco Demolition.

And for the record - dance music DID go mainstream again in Chicago circa mid - late 80's on no less than THREE commercial radio stations here.

All Dahl did was disrupt a baseball game......JMJ

[Ecuahouse]

I was talking to a well-known local DJ here in Washington, DC about perhaps producing some tracks for me.

Not to discredit the DJ, but why are you asking a DJ about advice on production and the economical gain from releasing music in today's market? Especially in D.C. It's not a House Mecca. I really am curious.

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that perhaps there is no money in producing House at the moment. Unless you are an Osunlade, Dennis Ferrer, Joey Negro, but even then who knows what their personal situations are? Also keep in mind that they are very musically inclined, motivated and experienced in the industry. I'm just throwing things out there.

I have witnessed legendary House producers actually go back to working day jobs. Yes they still produce, have radio shows, and DJ, but it just puts something in the back of my mind. I too want to have a family one day. In this competative market, will I be able to do enough to support my family? What if one of us gets sick or my kid is born sick? Accidents happen, cancer, retirement...etc. Just thinking ahead you know?

Ultimately, I will keep producing music for myself and enjoy doing it. I'll release tracks here and there. In the end, my goal is to contribute and leave a fingerprint in House music. Just have fun doing it.

You mentioned wanting someone to produce tracks for you. Are you a vocalist, musician, label manager?

[The White Shadow]

HOUSE MUSIC CAN and WILL be a household name again. Am I a dreamer or optimistic?

It will. Things always go in circles. Right now Hiphop has been the big thing for a few years, but I think House is next, along with the Dance Music classics. A lot of young people are into it again now, and maybe especially the old music. That's a good sign in my opinion. :)

[Chris Chase]

Music for the underground dance club is a bit different from music for the radio. If you want to appeal to the masses then you have to make music for the masses. It would have to be a little sweeter, with very simple catchy hooks so everyone could sing along. The standard 7 or 8 minutes would have to be cut down to 3.5 minutes. As Mr. Rauson already pointed out, the production quality would have to match that of the pop music in rotation on radio nowadays. You would have to decide which demographic you are targeting because different stations cater to different demographics. I am not saying it cannot be done but I do believe that a lot would be lost in translation from underground club to radio. Music from the heart is often different from music for the masses because if you are making music for mainstream consumers then you have to APPEAL to them in some way. Flashy, airbrushed magazine displays. T.V. commercials, billboard ads, PR, hype, hype, and more hype. Proper product presentation and packaging is essential. Gotta get folks EXCITED about the music and give them an IMAGE to associate with the songs. Make it desirable and sexy. A picture of some producer in the studio with a vocalist won't cut it. It might even be possible to retain some of the soul of the music as long as the packaging and the images displayed to the public encouraged them to buy the music and go hear the artists or DJs. If radio execs could be convinced of the commercial viability of the music then the music would be on the radio. The conundrum is how to retain the flavor of the music while taking it mainstream or deciding on what you would be willing to sacrifice for mainstream success.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with a producer who makes songs purely for commercial gain if that is what makes the person happy and it puts food on their table. But lets be real for a moment. If house were on the radio but deep and soulful was not selling and a producer were making a house song with the intent of having it played on radios across America, he/she probably wouldn't do something that is too deep or soulful. He/she would probably stick with whatever the popular house formula tended to be at that moment rather than stray from a well worn path to mainstream success. I also see nothing wrong with a producer whose roots go back to underground music making some tracks purely for commercial gain to keep food on the table and making other tracks purely for the underground dancer. A producer can wear more than one hat. It just takes planning and creativity.

My final question is this: if you could achieve a satisfying level of personal success with house music while maintaining a high level of creative control over what you present to the public, then why even bother chasing after radio play in the first place? The way I see it, mainstream radio is a very safe, and secure forum that lends itself to the tried and true rather than the new and exciting.

[NakedAge]

It's VERY mainstream where I come from. On all the radio stations, all the Video Hits styled tv shows etc. All the clubs, but thing is alot of it is so, shit I wouldn't even call it house. It's so bad here it's to the point I wish the fad would pass like the hip-hop/rnb one did here around 2004.

2000-2004 was either Hip-Hop/Rnb or Trance/Techno, they were the 2 scenes, and the house scene was very underground, it was great because the music was still good. Then 2004, house became huge, and RnB and Hip-Hop didn't go back underground or nothing but now, they're just NOT the place to be, and the music is horrible, same with the Trance scene.. But as it tames down, that shitness that came with the hype gets evolved on and mastered etc and becomes it's own second generation of that style and becomes good again. Like, Trance, went from uplifting, power trance shit.. Then completely went to shit when it became kinda semi commercial as hard trance etc, now it's died back down and everyones into prog trance, and that shits fucken great.

I'm waiting for that to happen in our House scene. I'm waiting for the fad jumpers to leave. See they're always the ones who in 30 years I think look at they're photos and say "I can't believe I wore that" and you ask "why?" they say "because it was in at the time" where as the people true to any form of music or culture, sure the fashion plays a part, but not a big part. They know what they like and don't let society dictate to them and when the fad passes, they stick around.

It's horrible that music works this way, but, it's all a popularity contest. If you heard the house we make here you'd say WOW THATS HORRIBLE.. but whys it so popular? It gets played on radio here, just so happens the guy who makes it is also the guy on radio who plays it. The older generation of House heads here, laugh at it because it's so bad. And with that, 2 scenes. Both have great people, but you can't play underground house to a commo croud and vice versa. But, it definately still is the universal language.
I've played it to people who can't speak English the other week, songs they haven't heard yet, to a commo crowd, they still got it. Its all about how you do it.

[Chris Conrad]

KTU in new york city recently dumped all its mix shows and mix show djs...and they played more commercial and progressive house and had good shows mixed in as well as syndicated shows from the likes of tiesto and others...all of it got dumped...they now only play the same formula of 70's/80's dance hits, freestyle, and some newer pop hits and euro club hits...

[djdub63]

Especially in D.C. It's not a House Mecca.

Easy sport....

[The Real Dragonfly Jones]

KTU in new york city recently dumped all its mix shows and mix show djs...and they played more commercial and progressive house and had good shows mixed in as well as syndicated shows from the likes of tiesto and others...all of it got dumped...they now only play the same formula of 70's/80's dance hits, freestyle, and some newer pop hits and euro club hits...

So that's what happened to Morales' & Roger Sanchez's shows.

[Chris Wood]

It's VERY mainstream where I come from. On all the radio stations, all the Video Hits styled tv shows etc. All the clubs, but thing is alot of it is so, shit I wouldn't even call it house. It's so bad here it's to the point I wish the fad would pass like the hip-hop/rnb one did here around 2004.

2000-2004 was either Hip-Hop/Rnb or Trance/Techno, they were the 2 scenes, and the house scene was very underground, it was great because the music was still good. Then 2004, house became huge, and RnB and Hip-Hop didn't go back underground or nothing but now, they're just NOT the place to be, and the music is horrible, same with the Trance scene.. But as it tames down, that shitness that came with the hype gets evolved on and mastered etc and becomes it's own second generation of that style and becomes good again. Like, Trance, went from uplifting, power trance shit.. Then completely went to shit when it became kinda semi commercial as hard trance etc, now it's died back down and everyones into prog trance, and that shits fucken great.

I'm waiting for that to happen in our House scene. I'm waiting for the fad jumpers to leave. See they're always the ones who in 30 years I think look at they're photos and say "I can't believe I wore that" and you ask "why?" they say "because it was in at the time" where as the people true to any form of music or culture, sure the fashion plays a part, but not a big part. They know what they like and don't let society dictate to them and when the fad passes, they stick around.

It's horrible that music works this way, but, it's all a popularity contest. If you heard the house we make here you'd say WOW THATS HORRIBLE.. but whys it so popular? It gets played on radio here, just so happens the guy who makes it is also the guy on radio who plays it. The older generation of House heads here, laugh at it because it's so bad. And with that, 2 scenes. Both have great people, but you can't play underground house to a commo croud and vice versa. But, it definately still is the universal language.
I've played it to people who can't speak English the other week, songs they haven't heard yet, to a commo crowd, they still got it. Its all about how you do it.

the house scene is still good, and always will be, you're obviously not looking in the right place for it...

[NakedAge]

No well, your from the Uk (according to the thing next to your name etc). The house music here is VERY different to there. Right now I think you guys are going through the minimal phase. That stuff, no way you could play it here. Don't get me wrong theres still jackin house clubs etc, but, when House became commercial in Melbourne, every fucken teenager wanted to be 'underground' now all the underground nights are flooded with fucken fashionista toss bags. It's rare to go to a house night thats JUST a house night. One where you can just sit down, wear what you want, be who you are and listen to decent house, but, you CAN find them, they DO exist in Melbourne.

It's just, Elektro House is the equivalent to how Minimal House is down there.

It's just BAD house. It really is about WHO you know not WHAT you know now. But your absolutely right, I do still find decent house. Bob Sinclar etc, like even tho their music has gone shit end up since they got commercialised and is all the same, you still find the diamond in the ruff. I've been playing a song out to people for the last 3 weeks, infact a few songs that don't get played much here, and people from the ages 18-50 go off to them, and they're NOT played on the radio AT ALL, and RARELY in other clubs be it underground or commercial, because they're seen as not 'Tough' enough for the sound of Melbourne and so Dj's think no one will like them because they're very happy songs. They're happier than they are tougher. Underground Djs say it's cheese (which it is), Commercial Dj's say it's not known enough.. Thing is, crowds love it.

There will always be an arguement about Commercial Sell outs VS Underground Elitists Vs Underground Sell outs Vs Commercial Elitists etc etc etc but at the end of the day you can analyse it until the cows come home. If your not playing good music, people won't like you. And thats all it is. The best song for the job

[Chris Wood]

it always has been about who you know and what you know...

but I'd disagree about the minimal phase - just because its the most talked about doesn't mean its the most popular... i mean 3000 people turned up for a deep house/soul/disco night last saturday @ Canvas, 3000 people turned up for a banging electro night with Morillo @ MoS, and I've no doubt 1500 odd people turned up to Fabric to see whoever was playing there... London is a real mixture of things and as Louie Vega showed its possible to play lots of different things without selling out...

[NakedAge]

thats exactly right, which is exactly why I'm moving there in 2009 or 1010.

Down here its not like that though. Our house culture is a massive sell out in every way shape and form. The only place it hasn't sold out is in the gay scene. The gay clubs and bars keep it real. The deep house scene for the most part is as fake as the commercial scene. Politics plays a huge part.
But thats why they're called 'Scenes' because people want to be SEEN, like a 'Scene' from a movie. People want to LOOK LIKE the night club scenes etc .

[ngeso]

House music will never see any kind of mainstream acceptance unless three things happen

1. Music must be produced for the people who spend money on music, music they can listen to in the living room, not for the club goers, the people who think their ten dollars at the door is a real contribution to the scene, not for the dancers, the people who buy the five dollar bootlegs, and not for the dance floor. I've never seen a dance floor buy a cd.

2. Producers and artists must tighten up their technical and musical skills, quality is the most important factor in commercial viability. Pop, (mainstream) records are perfect. House records are not(mostly)

3. An organized group that represents the interests of artists, producers, and writers is formed, funded, and recognized by members of the house community, that acts as an internal clearinghouse, ie , quality control, promotes our product, and lobbies media, and retail outlets to carry our product.


lpr





Music for the underground dance club is a bit different from music for the radio. If you want to appeal to the masses then you have to make music for the masses. It would have to be a little sweeter, with very simple catchy hooks so everyone could sing along. The standard 7 or 8 minutes would have to be cut down to 3.5 minutes. As Mr. Rauson already pointed out, the production quality would have to match that of the pop music in rotation on radio nowadays. You would have to decide which demographic you are targeting because different stations cater to different demographics. I am not saying it cannot be done but I do believe that a lot would be lost in translation from underground club to radio. Music from the heart is often different from music for the masses because if you are making music for mainstream consumers then you have to APPEAL to them in some way. Flashy, airbrushed magazine displays. T.V. commercials, billboard ads, PR, hype, hype, and more hype. Proper product presentation and packaging is essential. Gotta get folks EXCITED about the music and give them an IMAGE to associate with the songs. Make it desirable and sexy. A picture of some producer in the studio with a vocalist won't cut it. It might even be possible to retain some of the soul of the music as long as the packaging and the images displayed to the public encouraged them to buy the music and go hear the artists or DJs. If radio execs could be convinced of the commercial viability of the music then the music would be on the radio. The conundrum is how to retain the flavor of the music while taking it mainstream or deciding on what you would be willing to sacrifice for mainstream success.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with a producer who makes songs purely for commercial gain if that is what makes the person happy and it puts food on their table. But lets be real for a moment. If house were on the radio but deep and soulful was not selling and a producer were making a house song with the intent of having it played on radios across America, he/she probably wouldn't do something that is too deep or soulful. He/she would probably stick with whatever the popular house formula tended to be at that moment rather than stray from a well worn path to mainstream success. I also see nothing wrong with a producer whose roots go back to underground music making some tracks purely for commercial gain to keep food on the table and making other tracks purely for the underground dancer. A producer can wear more than one hat. It just takes planning and creativity.

My final question is this: if you could achieve a satisfying level of personal success with house music while maintaining a high level of creative control over what you present to the public, then why even bother chasing after radio play in the first place? The way I see it, mainstream radio is a very safe, and secure forum that lends itself to the tried and true rather than the new and exciting.



I'd add/stress the following points:

To enact a more mainstream appeal, house would need to

- debunk the undergound ethic and address lifestyle issues that go beyond the limitations of the participatory dancefloor (i.e. become more literary, visual, material and fashion conscious);
- achieve complex as well as polarizing socio-political content, imagery and association for purposes of popular identification;
- be more performer/personality-driven, with more appealing stage and media personae, less DJ-, producer- and dancefloor egos, less DIY introspection;
- be more song/message-oriented (actually create proper lyrical content);
- get tougher, dirtier and provocative;
- become broader-minded and more flexible;
- become programmatically youth-oriented and -driven.


That is how rock, pop and hip hop work, and nothing less.

...

[DUBFLY]

Hello Everyone,

I was talking to a well-known local DJ here in Washington, DC about perhaps producing some tracks for me. His response was, “there is no longer a significant demand for house/garage music like it was in the eighties and nineties”. I asked him why, and he said it is mainly due to the popularity of HIP-HOP and the evolution of music as a whole. I was sad and sidetracked all at once. Now, I’m bringing this question to you guys, because I know this forum brings together some very talented and knowledgeable musicians and DJs alike. Do you guys think that house is no longer a significant part of the mainstream musical roister? I personally feel that with the right tracks and the right marketing push, HOUSE MUSIC CAN and WILL be a household name again. Am I a dreamer or optimistic?


When was house ever mainstream or part of did I miss something?????

[Doug]

House music will never see any kind of mainstream acceptance unless three things happen

1. Music must be produced for the people who spend money on music, music they can listen to in the living room, not for the club goers, the people who think their ten dollars at the door is a real contribution to the scene, not for the dancers, the people who buy the five dollar bootlegs, and not for the dance floor. I've never seen a dance floor buy a cd.

2. Producers and artists must tighten up their technical and musical skills, quality is the most important factor in commercial viability. Pop, (mainstream) records are perfect. House records are not(mostly)

3. An organized group that represents the interests of artists, producers, and writers is formed, funded, and recognized by members of the house community, that acts as an internal clearinghouse, ie , quality control, promotes our product, and lobbies media, and retail outlets to carry our product.


lpr

co-sign

[fred da warrior]

Steve Dahl had nothing to do with it. Disco had already gone mainstream AND had "jumped the shark" before the irrelevant Disco Demolition.

And for the record - dance music DID go mainstream again in Chicago circa mid - late 80's on no less than THREE commercial radio stations here.

All Dahl did was disrupt a baseball game......JMJ


Wer'ds......Dahl himself wouldn't take credit for that

[Myron]

If House ever did become mainstream, would any of you like it?

[rhodey]

It was nice going to Germany in 2003 and hearing house music (and true R&B) in heavy rotation there on their version of MTV. Will it ever be like the early ninties with CECE Peniston and DEELight? Maybe but it's tough to predict. Many say the Music aint "good" enough - production value wise. Many saysit doesn't appeal to today's youth. It's not marketed correctly... Bla bla. Despite all of this it could come back. All it takes is for it to be heard in some other universal medium like a block buster movie or popular ongoing tv series and a trend can start. Hip Hop is still strong but I think it's on a slow decline. Something has to fill that void.

[Moksha]

depends on how you define "house."

In its broadest definition, it's still mainstream. Just look at Justin Timberlake.

[LEONARD REMIX RROY]

I rather that House grow but stay untanted by the industry. Industry tanting gave us B/S groups like C&C Music Factory and bogus songs like I Wanna Have Some Fun by Samantha Fox & Vogue by Madona (s/p). It also permited Grammys to be awarded to DJ's & artist who did mixes of what was popular while the originals got nothing. It is a crock of shit that Steve Silk Hurley has yet to get a grammy.

I rather us be the party group that are exclusive from Rap / Ni**a music and get quailty music instead of QUANTITY music.

I love our nights to end without the Police or our events stop in the middle due to wanna be ganstaz < as they spell it.

I even did a video on that subject
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V2oilPW8gYM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V2oilPW8gYM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[Dj Izm]

co-sign

Hey Doug,

Man, come back to the Ville and start a 95 North house resurgence here in the "South." LOL.

Peace & Respect,

Michael (oops, Dr. Michael)

[BariRed]

I first of all must apologize for bringing up something that has apparently been discussed previously. Secondly, I really thoroughly appreciate everyone's comments, advice and historical briefings on the subject matter. I definitely have a better sense of direction when it comes to how I will procede with my musical intent as a vocalist.

Thanks!!!

BaaRee

[Armento]

thats exactly right, which is exactly why I'm moving there in 2009 or 1010.

you going to change continents because of house music?

[Chris Wood]

you going to change continents because of house music?

probably a better decision than that person on here that said they 'would die for house music', god that was ages ago...

[Mike Johnson]

Tryin' to keep it in historical perspective...

If someone went to a producer in 1974, asking him to produce a Duke Ellington-style big-band album, don't you
think the producer would have been far more motivated to make a funk record that was like Herbie Hancock or Sly Stone?

Things evolve. While there's nothing wrong with staying attached to any particular sound, it's obvious that historically,
this has never, ever been what the younger generations wanted. Like it or not, they are the ones who determine what's popular.

Depends if you are trying to make a record for your own satisfaction, or for other people. Either way is fine with me, really.

Just sayin'..

FK

TRUTH!!!