View Full Version : POLL: Lift the Veil?
mdpm99
05-28-2003, 04:48 PM
Should Sultanna Freeman be forced to take off her veil?
· Yes, she should have her picture taken like everyone else
· No, it's a violation of her religious freedom
she should definitely lift her veil! what's the point of having an I.D. card if all you can see is her eyes? it basically comes down to common sense, IMO.
Querck
05-28-2003, 05:34 PM
For a second I thought this would be about Moodyman at the DEMF...
Querck
05-28-2003, 05:37 PM
But seriously, yes she should lift it up. At some point religious freedoms have to be subverted for the interest of society.
MyNia
05-28-2003, 05:44 PM
I was watching this case on Court TV this morning. She feels like she is being asked to chose between her God and the state's requirements for her to operate a motor vehicle. From listening to some of the case I can see where she is coming from. Not that I agree especially since the state has offered to make special accomodations for her (come in before or after hrs and have no men present and a woman take her picture). I feel she is taking it a bit far, she should lift the veil using the accomodations the state is offering her.
Originally posted by dannyboy:
But seriously, yes she should lift it up. At some point religious freedoms have to be subverted for the interest of society. practicalities aside, wasn't the point of this society religious freedom?
Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dannyboy:
But seriously, yes she should lift it up. At some point religious freedoms have to be subverted for the interest of society. practicalities aside, wasn't the point of this society religious freedom? </font>[/QUOTE]true, but don't you think she's taking it a little too far? and honestly, what is the point of having an identification card if all you can see are her eyes? it just doesn't make sense to me.
Woody Rosen
05-28-2003, 06:07 PM
This is the first Ive heard of this. If it is that important to her she should just go without driving a car. Take a taxi, or the bus.
Ken1015
05-28-2003, 06:20 PM
We have a right to religious freedom but we don't have a right to drive. If she wants to drive she should lift the veil as everyone else does.
Originally posted by Woody:
This is the first Ive heard of this. If it is that important to her she should just go without driving a car. Take a taxi, or the bus. but it's not only about the privilege to drive but for overall identification purposes.
Woody Rosen
05-28-2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by JoeB:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Woody:
This is the first Ive heard of this. If it is that important to her she should just go without driving a car. Take a taxi, or the bus. but it's not only about the privilege to drive but for overall identification purposes. </font>[/QUOTE]true.
i know its been said but how could you even tell if it was the same person?
I saw one of these women (i dont know the proper name for them) at the post office yesterday for the first time. I couldnt help but stare at her. not because i thought it was strange, but i kept wondering what she looked like underneath. and also what it must be like to wear one of those veils and robes WHENEVER you are in public. wow, different world.
C hristian
05-28-2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by mhd:
wasn't the point of this society religious freedom? That's a big "NO!"
That's what the history books tell us, sure, but that aien't it!
Go visit the Mayflower at Plymoth Rock and those actors (who studied for their part) will tell ya that they already found religious freedom in Scandanavia after they left England, before they came here. What they didn't have in Scandinavia was p r o p e r t y .
And the rest, as they say.....is her story.
C hristian
05-28-2003, 07:45 PM
i can't believe it's taken this long (2003) for this to become an issue in this country. thought it would have come up in the past 20 years before now.
Take it off! Take it all off! No wait! leave it on!
Originally posted by Soulful1015:
We have a right to religious freedom but we don't have a right to drive. If she wants to drive she should lift the veil as everyone else does. Good answer. I could just see myself walking into the DMV wearing a Batman mask, announcing myself as a member of the Church Of Gotham City. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and the state not only isn't obligated to GIVE her a driver's license, but also has the right to set the rules regarding identification. I remember something to the effect of "separation of church and state" applying here. Chicks dig the mask and cape by the way. I hate the tights, though.....JMJ
Woody Rosen
05-28-2003, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Soulful1015:
We have a right to religious freedom but we don't have a right to drive. If she wants to drive she should lift the veil as everyone else does. Good answer. I could just see myself walking into the DMV wearing a Batman mask, announcing myself as a member of the Church Of Gotham City. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and the state not only isn't obligated to GIVE her a driver's license, but also has the right to set the rules regarding identification. I remember something to the effect of "separation of church and state" applying here. Chicks dig the mask and cape by the way. I hate the tights, though.....JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]hail.gif graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/lol.gif
Dj Pat
05-28-2003, 11:26 PM
If there was never an attack on american soil, this would have never been an issue!
It's out of people's fear and not-knowing about the other.
I say no.
She should not have to take off her vail at all.
Dj Pat
Originally posted by JMJ:
I could just see myself walking into the DMV wearing a Batman mask, announcing myself as a member of the Church Of Gotham City. Chicks dig the mask and cape by the way. I hate the tights, though.....JMJ Now that's funny! icon_rofl.gif
flypitcher
05-29-2003, 02:10 AM
funnily enough I saw a muslim woman yesterday pushing a pram with a small baby in it, both of them wearing veils, a friend approached and said the baby looked just like her mother smile.gif
David Le C
05-29-2003, 03:01 AM
Yes, maybe people see this in a different daylight because of the United States vs. Islam point of view, but in every arabic country where a woman is allowed to drive a vehicule, she also has to take the picture for the permit, and without veil...
Actually, I can't see what the fuzz is about... :D
Martin Red
05-29-2003, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by Blue:
If there was never an attack on american soil, this would have never been an issue!
It's out of people's fear and not-knowing about the other.
I say no.
She should not have to take off her vail at all.
Dj Pat Bollocks, there hasn't been a huge attack on British soil and the similair problems have existed here
They only started talking about having picture ID on licensed when they realised how mamy immigrants shared the same surname and license.
We are also in the process of adopting American style National ID cards.
If an advertising hoard is within miles from a mosque, (which near the city is virtually everywhere) and the advert is for a cosmetic company that may show a lady showing off her skin the offending bits are painted over with Red paint.
In the west we show our face and are allowed to show some skin.
In the east, western women are expected to cover up and risk ending up in big trouble if they don't.
Double standards, the laws where written from a Muslim perspective in the Middle East and the laws in the West where mainly written from a christian perspective, therefore if both don't change niether should change. Any other way is double standards.
[ May 29, 2003, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]
Wild i
05-29-2003, 05:20 AM
I don't know this issue but from what I've read here the solution seems simple enough. Remove the men from the area, have her remove the burqua, take the stupid picture, put the burqua back on, return to business as usual. I've seen and know tones of Islamic women who drive. It's hard to believe the issue has never come up before. Not need to make a federal case of it... literally.
mdpm99
05-29-2003, 07:06 AM
Much thanks to all for your responses.....Have a wonderful day!
smile.gif
d
[ May 29, 2003, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]
SuzanneT
05-29-2003, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by flypitcher:
funnily enough I saw a muslim woman yesterday pushing a pram with a small baby in it, both of them wearing veils, a friend approached and said the baby looked just like her mother smile.gif lmao graemlins/rofl.gif
lola desire
05-29-2003, 07:48 AM
what do veiled women do for passport photos? i'd be suprized if this was the first time a veiled woman has had to lift the veil to take an i.d. picture... plus, wouldn't she have to lift it anyway if she got pulled over by a cop and the cop checked her i.d.? what about ANY other time she would need to present her i.d.? rampant veil lifting... what to do?
i'm not sure... i guess just live a life that doesn't require i.d. presentation.
Cleo Khary
05-29-2003, 11:40 AM
The fact is she has taken the veil off before (for a mug shot) so she can and will do it when necessary.
I went to school with a Muslim girl that wore a veil and for years everyone desperately wanted to know what she looked like but to no avail (no pun intended). :D To everyones surprise at the beginning of the senior year this girl arrived at school wearing no veil and only her head covering. Unfortunately she looked better with the veil on...but I digress. graemlins/spanka.gif I remember asking her why and I think she refered to it being her choice to make.
Originally posted by SuzanneT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flypitcher:
funnily enough I saw a muslim woman yesterday pushing a pram with a small baby in it, both of them wearing veils, a friend approached and said the baby looked just like her mother smile.gif lmao graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]I second that SuzanneT ... Good one Flypitcher.
icon_rofl.gif
jsd540
05-29-2003, 09:17 PM
Even the Amish have turn signals on their wagons. So yes she should, how else would a pcture ID be useful... graemlins/stupid.gif
Originally posted by jsd540:
Even the Amish have turn signals on their wagons. So yes she should, how else would a pcture ID be useful... graemlins/stupid.gif Don't dis the Amish. I have spoken....JMJ mad1.gif
lola desire
05-30-2003, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jsd540:
Even the Amish have turn signals on their wagons. So yes she should, how else would a pcture ID be useful... graemlins/stupid.gif Don't dis the Amish. I have spoken....JMJ mad1.gif </font>[/QUOTE]http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/outfitted/amish.gif ... and what jmj says goes. *snicker*
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