Black women's hair

[Moksha]

I was just reminded in another thread about a discussion in one of my classes in college. I don't remember the context...but some black females were talking about this seemingly HUGE topic of hair. Some had had white girls want to touch the black hair, which made the black girls feel objectified. There were other anecdotes that revolved around the differences in hair types.

I assume that as a male, I missed out on some of the importance of the discussion, but I know that it is a topic that is often brought up. Personally, I love lots of types of hair, but have not been "fascinated" or even particularly curious about anybody else's.

I'd love to know more about what this all about. I think that it was brought up in some literature I read as well.

[dVine]

Black hair is dry and susceptible to damage given the cold windy climate. It shouldn't be washed often - no more than once a week, which, including a set, is a time-consuming task many do at a salon. It needs to be left as clean as possible and hands and fingers contain natural oils that'll make the hair dirty, among other nasty things. Since no one knows where the offenders hands have been, a lot of girls will take offense if you touch their hair without washing your hands first. Also, many people prefer their extensions done without using glue (opting for thread) so they tend to fall out if manipulated often.

So the rule is, don't touch the hair, ever.

[Moksha]

Thank you for the info. I'd also like more input on the larger sociological issues that seem to surround the topic. Did I misunderstand...is there not a topic there?

[mhd]

Originally posted by Orion:
Thank you for the info. I'd also like more input on the larger sociological issues that seem to surround the topic. Did I misunderstand...is there not a topic there? its been covered a lot here before, you could do a search and get a lot of answers

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Well from my personal experience there has always been a fascination with hair, whether black, white, hispanic etc. I have gone to school with a wide variety of ethnic groups and among the girls have always been an interest in each others' hair. The Black girls would play in the Black girls with the good hair, hispanic girls with the long hair and the white girls hair period. It was kind of like having a big Barbie doll to play with. I hated when anyone played in my hair, I remember having a pony tail cut from my hair when I was very young. There were two girls that sat behind me that always pulled my hair stuck gum in it and finally they got bored and snip, snip they went.

Anyway the fascination with Black Folk hair or People of Color hair is that there are many varities of it, The girls can wear their hair in various styles. I guess having hair that is straight, stringy or unmanageable is not so versatile, so why not have an urge to settle curiousity by touching hair unlike yours.

[dVine]

Originally posted by Orion:
Thank you for the info. I'd also like more input on the larger sociological issues that seem to surround the topic. Did I misunderstand...is there not a topic there? There's sociological issues, I think, surrounding relaxers.

Relaxing is when people with rough/curly hair textures (i.e. black hair) apply chemicals to straighten the hair. In order for the hair to remain straight, it has to be relaxed over and over again and black hair is very porous and cannot take this chemical process too many times, so the hair breaks.

A lot of people believe that relaxing black hair is about pressure to conform to 'white' standards of beauty. When you consider how the girls literally destroy their hair to acheive this end, it takes on an oppressive connnotation. And I totally agree. Which is why its important they understand that there are many options for those who want to leave their hair in its natural state, like braids, dreads, twists. These styles are absolutely beautiful, more so than broken, straightened overly-relaxed hair that breaks when you run a comb through it.

[Moksha]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Orion:
Thank you for the info. I'd also like more input on the larger sociological issues that seem to surround the topic. Did I misunderstand...is there not a topic there? its been covered a lot here before, you could do a search and get a lot of answers </font>[/QUOTE]I searched, and have been on the board pretty consistently for the last 2 years, and could not find the answers to my question. Sorry if you've been over this before.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Orion:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Orion:
Thank you for the info. I'd also like more input on the larger sociological issues that seem to surround the topic. Did I misunderstand...is there not a topic there? its been covered a lot here before, you could do a search and get a lot of answers </font>[/QUOTE]I searched, and have been on the board pretty consistently for the last 2 years, and could not find the answers to my question. Sorry if you've been over this before. </font>[/QUOTE]try here:

http://deephousepage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=028207;p=2#0000 34

[ May 14, 2003, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: mhd ]

[jcapeverde]

:)YOU KNOW IT'S A BLACK HAIR SALON WHEN...
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;1.) Your stylist accepts a 3pc from Popeye's as her
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; tip.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;2.) All the stylists walk around with house
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; slippers on.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;3.) Four people are booked for the same 1:00 appt.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;4.) Your stylist calls YOU at the salon talking'
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; bout "I overslept but I'm
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;on my way."
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;5.) When your stylist finally arrives you can see
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; that she had been to the
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;club the night before because she still has on her
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; club clothes, and she
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;still has the red "over 21" stamp on the back of
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; her hand.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;6.) Every hairstyle, no matter what you're getting,
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; requires that nasty
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;brown gel.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;7.) The STYLIST'S head looks a mess.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;8.) There's a receptionist's booth at the front of
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; the shop but no one ever
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;uses it because it's stocked with beauty supplies.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;9.) The Asian man from the carryout across the
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; street comes in personally
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;takes food orders.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;10.)You have to divide your tips 'bout four
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; different ways cuz' one permed
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;you, one shampooed you, one wrapped you and your
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; stylist finished you up.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;11.)You get to the salon and your stylist isn't
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; there, so you gotta page
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;her. When she calls back, you gotta go pick her and
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; her baby up.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;12.)Your ears are ringing because 'loud music' is
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; playing on your stylist's
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;radio and she is singing along.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;13.)Somebody is making a chicken run and is taking
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; orders from the stylists
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;AND the clients.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;14.)Your stylist stops doing your hair to go
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; outside and talk to her baby
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;daddy.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;15.)Your stylist got 10 Polaroid pictures from the
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; club stuck around the
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;mirror.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;16.)Your stylist holds a 15-minute phone
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; conversation with somebody while
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;she styles your hair.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;17.)The tape man is there selling bootleg tapes for
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; $5.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;18.)The stylists all talk about each other.
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;19.)When they send Boo-Boo's baby girl to the
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; 99-cent store to buy your $10
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;"deep conditioner."
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;20.)When for a finishing touch your stylist insist
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; on sprinkling a little
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;bit of glitter in your hair. .W-E-L-L-L....

[Ron la Rock]

ya know just as everything isn't race it just as sickeneing that everything isn't a
college coarse study 2 analize to death niether

yes there are books written by black women about thier hair (wich you clolour blind cats didn't know was different from your own puh-leaze!)
and the fact that slavery and european standards of bueaty shoved down our throats don't play a role on how sisters (and bruhs) deal with our natural kink?
(your the 1s kidding right?)

now yes a cultural revolution has gone on where we see our beauty and also how diverse we can wear
our natural
hell I'm a black male and have been there from the fro-braids-the all mighty jheri-curl**(yeah
I know most won't admit it now graemlins/rofl.gif )/ the 90s backlash to more natural locks been there done that
hell relaxers and all in between (never did the blond thing though graemlins/nono.gif )
4 all the wrong and right reasons

however won't you guys try talking with some of your black friends
(if have any/a coworker?..)
espec the sisters like in a more 1 on 1
personal fashion you might realize people have sensitive issues and different views on this 4 reasons you may not understand
these are cultural & phsycal
differences doesn't mean you or they are racist just these are our differences (its ok that we have differences?)
what I'm trying 2 say is don't make it such a case study 4 messageboard chatter and then be in shock when someone responds with a fact on treating and maintaining kinky hair is different than other hair types
and
who wants or allows anyone anywhere just touching all up on thier hair anyway?

all sides of these threads(the over intellectualizing) are really gettin tired
:rolleyes:

[ May 14, 2003, 03:25 AM: Message edited by: Ron paizley ]

[imported_Gman]

^

[RX]

Originally posted by dVine:
Black hair is dry and susceptible to damage given the cold windy climate. not entirely true – black hair is susceptable to damage in ANY weather – just ask the sistas in the islands…what is damaging is the lack of proper hair products able to counter the affects of more recent phenomenas like the grrenhouse effect…

also, black hair comes in many textures, so to group them all into one category rather than separating them into fine, course, wavy, etc. leaves you at a disadvantage (just get a recent copy of essence and see how they take their time with treating each hair texture as its own)


Originally posted by dVine:
It shouldn't be washed often - no more than once a week, which, including a set, is a time-consuming task many do at a salon.
wrong again – I have a relaxer – how do I look only washing my hair once a week? please…washing can be done everyday if you use the proper products and not apply too much heat…
also, a “wash” is not time-consuming – you are confusing it with a deep-conditioning, which takes place under a dryer and is not always done everytime you get a wash…


Originally posted by dVine:
It needs to be left as clean as possible and hands and fingers contain natural oils that'll make the hair dirty, among other nasty things. Since no one knows where the offenders hands have been, a lot of girls will take offense if you touch their hair without washing your hands first.
the reason we don’t want just any folk in our hair because we understand that the head is where most energy escapes and that we can pick up the energy of anyone who touches our hair/head through our heads…

the reason we may not want YOU in our heads is because you may make US feel uncomfortable (I can tell by the tone of your post that you have an issue with black hair)…and I’m taking offense to your use of “other nasty things”…do you even know why our hair doesn’t get as oily as “white” hair”? I didn’t think so…let me just say that it prevents us from getting pests that you may be susceptible to…


Originally posted by dVine:
Also, many people prefer their extensions done without using glue (opting for thread) so they tend to fall out if manipulated often.

So the rule is, don't touch the hair, ever. how wrong can you be? the reason of hair breakage is because of pulling the hair too taut, NOT beacue of threading or glue…and those are not the only means of getting braid extensions – have you ever heard of the new way they actually use cornrows to attach extensions? WOW!

so the rule is, humble yo gatdamn self amongst ladies you’d like as clienteles or step off…

[Koffy Brown]

That's why I stick with someone who understands me and my hair relationship...a license don't mean a damn thing...

[RX]

Originally posted by dVine:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Orion:
Thank you for the info. I'd also like more input on the larger sociological issues that seem to surround the topic. Did I misunderstand...is there not a topic there? There's sociological issues, I think, surrounding relaxers.

Relaxing is when people with rough/curly hair textures (i.e. black hair) apply chemicals to straighten the hair. In order for the hair to remain straight, it has to be relaxed over and over again and black hair is very porous and cannot take this chemical process too many times, so the hair breaks.

A lot of people believe that relaxing black hair is about pressure to conform to 'white' standards of beauty. When you consider how the girls literally destroy their hair to acheive this end, it takes on an oppressive connnotation. And I totally agree. Which is why its important they understand that there are many options for those who want to leave their hair in its natural state, like braids, dreads, twists. These styles are absolutely beautiful, more so than broken, straightened overly-relaxed hair that breaks when you run a comb through it. </font>[/QUOTE]how in the hell do YOU know what's oppressive about our hair? you sound like some right-winged a**hole...notice i said you "sound" 'cause i don't know you...but i DO know that relaxers don't damage hair - improper care of hair damages hair...

are you in the 1800's with your reasons for us wanting relaxers? wanting to be "white" is NOT why we get relaxers - we recognize that being "white" is not all it's cracked up to be...there are a multitude of reasons - more often, because it's easier to care for in this society that doesn't cater to natural hair...

i can see why folk won't let you in their heads - you are ignorant to proper black hair care and for you to promote ANY type of hair style over another based on your reasoning is more damaging to the black female psyche than a relaxer...

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dVine:
Black hair is dry and susceptible to damage given the cold windy climate. not entirely true – black hair is susceptable to damage in ANY weather – just ask the sistas in the islands…what is damaging is the lack of proper hair products able to counter the affects of more recent phenomenas like the grrenhouse effect…

also, black hair comes in many textures, so to group them all into one category rather than separating them into fine, course, wavy, etc. leaves you at a disadvantage (just get a recent copy of essence and see how they take their time with treating each hair texture as its own)


Originally posted by dVine:
It shouldn't be washed often - no more than once a week, which, including a set, is a time-consuming task many do at a salon.
wrong again – I have a relaxer – how do I look only washing my hair once a week? please…washing can be done everyday if you use the proper products and not apply too much heat…
also, a “wash” is not time-consuming – you are confusing it with a deep-conditioning, which takes place under a dryer and is not always done everytime you get a wash…


Originally posted by dVine:
It needs to be left as clean as possible and hands and fingers contain natural oils that'll make the hair dirty, among other nasty things. Since no one knows where the offenders hands have been, a lot of girls will take offense if you touch their hair without washing your hands first.
the reason we don’t want just any folk in our hair because we understand that the head is where most energy escapes and that we can pick up the energy of anyone who touches our hair/head through our heads…

the reason we may not want YOU in our heads is because you may make US feel uncomfortable (I can tell by the tone of your post that you have an issue with black hair)…and I’m taking offense to your use of “other nasty things”…do you even know why our hair doesn’t get as oily as “white” hair”? I didn’t think so…let me just say that it prevents us from getting pests that you may be susceptible to…


Originally posted by dVine:
Also, many people prefer their extensions done without using glue (opting for thread) so they tend to fall out if manipulated often.

So the rule is, don't touch the hair, ever. how wrong can you be? the reason of hair breakage is because of pulling the hair too taut, NOT beacue of threading or glue…and those are not the only means of getting braid extensions – have you ever heard of the new way they actually use cornrows to attach extensions? WOW!

so the rule is, humble yo gatdamn self amongst ladies you’d like as clienteles or step off… </font>[/QUOTE]Let the church say amen! Broken down to its core..you on fire today sista on fire!! hail.gif hail.gif

[RX]

not only am i taking offense to our blackness being exposed amongst the masses who couldn't care less, but i am REALLY offended by this person's blatant bitterness towards women of color - particularly black women...

i hope that all of this dialogue that many folk are considering "racist" can open up a can of worms to be used as bait to catch bigger fish to fry...

[imported_Gman]

dVine ?

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
not only am i taking offense to our blackness being exposed amongst the masses who couldn't care less, but i am REALLY offended by this person's blatant bitterness towards women of color - particularly black women...

i hope that all of this dialogue that many folk are considering "racist" can open up a can of worms to be used as bait to catch bigger fish to fry... Lack of insight is the largest deterrent to understanding. Most lack the courage to be vulnerable and therefore learn nothing but that which lies at surface level. Everyone wants to have an effect - no one wants to be effected.

Speaking of humans in general.

[NubianSista]

Hey Orin! graemlins/spanka.gif

[NubianSista]

oops misspelled your name... oh well!
graemlins/tongueout.gif

[daniel]

snap! a newbie, who can't even spell, is dissing you.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

The history of our hair goes back a long way. We are beautiful and love to enhance our beauty. I will not let someone tell me the reason why I don't like my hair or how opressive it can be. Come on now we are talking about our crown our glory. So yes, I will do whatever it takes to make my crown stand out.

Haven't we talked about this before. The topic is wanting to know about the differences of hair and why are people attracted to variety. If I want to straightened my hair so what, they are far more non-Black/Latina women that spend a great deal of money to straightened theirs and guess what? Is there anyone scrutinizing why they decided to do it? No I didn't think so.

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Nubiansista:
oops misspelled your name... oh well!
graemlins/tongueout.gif This was uncalled for. There was nothing offensive in anything he posted with regard to this topic. When we throw the flame, lets keep it legit.

[Shalewa]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dVine:
Black hair is dry and susceptible to damage given the cold windy climate. not entirely true ? black hair is susceptable to damage in ANY weather ? just ask the sistas in the islands?what is damaging is the lack of proper hair products able to counter the affects of more recent phenomenas like the grrenhouse effect?

also, black hair comes in many textures, so to group them all into one category rather than separating them into fine, course, wavy, etc. leaves you at a disadvantage (just get a recent copy of essence and see how they take their time with treating each hair texture as its own)


Originally posted by dVine:
It shouldn't be washed often - no more than once a week, which, including a set, is a time-consuming task many do at a salon.
wrong again ? I have a relaxer ? how do I look only washing my hair once a week? please?washing can be done everyday if you use the proper products and not apply too much heat?
also, a ?wash? is not time-consuming ? you are confusing it with a deep-conditioning, which takes place under a dryer and is not always done everytime you get a wash?


Originally posted by dVine:
It needs to be left as clean as possible and hands and fingers contain natural oils that'll make the hair dirty, among other nasty things. Since no one knows where the offenders hands have been, a lot of girls will take offense if you touch their hair without washing your hands first.
the reason we don?t want just any folk in our hair because we understand that the head is where most energy escapes and that we can pick up the energy of anyone who touches our hair/head through our heads?

the reason we may not want YOU in our heads is because you may make US feel uncomfortable (I can tell by the tone of your post that you have an issue with black hair)?and I?m taking offense to your use of ?other nasty things??do you even know why our hair doesn?t get as oily as ?white? hair?? I didn?t think so?let me just say that it prevents us from getting pests that you may be susceptible to?


Originally posted by dVine:
Also, many people prefer their extensions done without using glue (opting for thread) so they tend to fall out if manipulated often.

So the rule is, don't touch the hair, ever. how wrong can you be? the reason of hair breakage is because of pulling the hair too taut, NOT beacue of threading or glue?and those are not the only means of getting braid extensions ? have you ever heard of the new way they actually use cornrows to attach extensions? WOW!

so the rule is, humble yo gatdamn self amongst ladies you?d like as clienteles or step off? </font>[/QUOTE]Let the church say amen! Broken down to its core..you on fire today sista on fire!! hail.gif hail.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Amen. Ache. Asante. Alright.
Thanks Rickey for the clearly articulated response. graemlins/clap.gif

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
not only am i taking offense to our blackness being exposed amongst the masses who couldn't care less, but i am REALLY offended by this person's blatant bitterness towards women of color - particularly black women...

i hope that all of this dialogue that many folk are considering "racist" can open up a can of worms to be used as bait to catch bigger fish to fry... I keep coming back to this and reading it over and over because it is so true!

[And]

Hmm ... again I'm missing the blatant hostility being spoken of here.
Ron P expressed a good number of my sentiments on this topic.

[dVine]

I'm just going to ignore the animosity in this thread, too old to deal with it really.

Thanks to everyone, especially Ricki X for their input. Black hair isn't covered at all in school and whoever said that licenses don't mean anything is right. Just like everything else though, its a constant learning process.

I'm into colours/cut so I don't braid for a living. It's just as a hobby for my good friends and girls in the neighbourhood. I like it, it's relaxing, and the talk in the hair shop makes those hours fly by.

dVine

[RX]

Originally posted by dVine:
I'm just going to ignore the animosity in this thread, too old to deal with it really.

Thanks to everyone, especially Ricki X for their input. Black hair isn't covered at all in school and whoever said that licenses don't mean anything is right. Just like everything else though, its a constant learning process.

I'm into colours/cut so I don't braid for a living. It's just as a hobby for my good friends and girls in the neighbourhood. I like it, it's relaxing, and the talk in the hair shop makes those hours fly by.

dVine that's cool, lady...no harm, no foul...i hope that our responses can be much more enlightening for you and gain you appropriate clientele, for we are all sistas, making $.70 to a man's $1 no matter how you slice it... ;)