Moses was stoned when he set Ten Commandments

[Martin Red]

Elizabeth Stewart and agencies guardian.co.uk, Wednesday March 5 2008


http://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/03/05/moses460.jpg
Charlton Heston as Moses in the 1955 film The Ten Commandments. Photograph: AP

We all know that Moses was high on Mount Sinai when God spoke to him, but were the Ten Commandments a result of divine inspiration alone?

An Israeli researcher is claiming in a study published this week the prophet may have been stoned when he set the Ten Commandments in stone.

According to Benny Shanon, a professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, psychedelic drugs formed an integral part of the religious rites of Israelites in biblical times.

Writing in the Time and Mind journal of philosophy, he says concoctions based on the bark of the acacia tree, frequently mentioned in the Old Testament, contain the same molecules as those found in plants from which the powerful Amazonian hallucinogenic brew ayahuasca is prepared.

"The thunder, lightning and blaring of a trumpet which the Book of Exodus says emanated from Mount Sinai could just have been the imaginings of a people in an altered state of awareness," writes Shanon. "In advanced forms of ayahuasca inebriation, the seeing of light is accompanied by profound religious and spiritual feelings."

References in the Bible where people "see" sounds, is another "classic phenomenon", he said, citing the example of religious ceremonies in the Amazon in which drugs are used that induce people to "see" music.

Speaking about his article on Israeli public radio, he added: "As far as Moses on Mount Sinai is concerned, it was either a supernatural cosmic event, which I don't believe, or a legend, which I don't believe either. Or finally, and this is very probable, an event that joined Moses and the people of Israel under the effect of narcotics."

Moses was probably also on mind-altering drugs when he saw the "burning bush", suggested Shanon, who admitted to dabbling with such substances.

Speaking of his own experience of ayahuasca during a religious ceremony in Brazil's Amazon forest in 1991, he said: "I experienced visions that had spiritual-religious connotations."

[rob_s]

Read this in The Sun yesterday also.

This would also explain a lot of Jesus's so-called 'miracles' one thinks.

[Martin Red]

Read this in The Sun yesterday also.

This would also explain a lot of Jesus's so-called 'miracles' one thinks.

Jesus nips to shops, as 5000 get munchies

Burning bush, name gives it away really :)

[david_mancuso]

Jesus nips to shops, as 5000 get munchies

Burning bush, name gives it away really :)

:)

[TAD]

hallucinogens=first contact with the divine.

just curious. i wonder what the bible thumpers have to say about this. fact or fiction? what say you believers?

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Jesus nips to shops, as 5000 get munchies

Burning bush, name gives it away really :)

He probably smelled the burning bush :rofl5:

[Big Ken]

If this is true, are the Ten Commandments real or something
Moses imagined while he was trippin?

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

If this is true, are the Ten Commandments real or something
Moses imagined while he was trippin?

More like the whole story was made up while someone else was tripping.

[DJEddieTwain]

this reminds me of the stoned ape theory







The "Stoned Ape" theory of human evolution
Perhaps the most famous of Terence McKenna's theories and observations is his explanation for the origin of the human mind and culture. McKenna theorized that as the North African jungles receded toward the end of the most recent ice age, giving way to grasslands, a branch of our tree-dwelling primate ancestors left the branches and took up a life out in the open — following around herds of ungulates, nibbling what they could along the way.

Among the new items in their diet were psilocybin-containing mushrooms growing in the dung of these ungulate herds. McKenna, referencing the research of Roland L. Fisher Ph.D. (College of Optometry and Departments of Psychiatry and Pharmacology, College of Medicine, The Ohio State University)[14] [15] [16] [17], claimed enhancement of visual acuity as an effect of psilocybin at low doses, and supposed that this would have conferred an adaptive advantage. He also argued that the effects of slightly larger doses, including a physical sexual arousal (again, not reported as a typical effect in scientific studies) — and in still larger doses, ecstatic hallucinations and glossolalia — gave evolutionary advantages to those tribes who partook of it. There were many changes caused by the introduction of this drug to the primate diet. McKenna theorizes, for instance, that synesthesia (the blurring of boundaries between the senses) caused by psilocybin led to the development of spoken language: the ability to form pictures in another person's mind through the use of vocal sounds.

About 12,000 years ago, further climate changes removed the mushroom from the human diet, which McKenna argued to result in a new set of profound changes in our species as we reverted to pre-mushroomed and brutal primate social structures that had been modified and/or repressed by frequent consumption of psilocybin.

McKenna did not attempt to defend his hypotheses through rigorous scientific evidence; he consciously self-identified as a type of shaman, or ethnobotanist. McKenna and his followers view his theories as speculation that is at a minimum scientifically feasible and arguably gifted by special knowledge due to psychedelic plants. His hypothesis that psilocybin induced a phase change in human evolution is necessarily based on a great deal of supposition interpolating between the few fragmentary facts we know about hominid and early human history. But perhaps its most significant problem is its inconsistency with natural selection (the central concept of evolutionary theory) which cannot favor any variations, no matter how adaptive, unless they result from an allele or genetic factor.[citation needed] A live recording of his "Stoned Ape" theory can be found on the CD Conversations on the Edge of Magic (recorded live at the Starwood Festival).

[JJ11]

More and more recently I am coming across views online , trying to dis credit or mock Our Creator and his message(s) to and for us.

Why is it so difficult to Believe ?
To Have Faith ?

I am a FIRM believer , and nothing anyone can say, can change my FIRM belief in our Creator.
I am full of Faith !

Your questions could be put to Rastafari for answers .

God is not an Illusion
God is REAL !

[Martin Red]

this reminds me of the stoned ape theory

The "Stoned Ape" theory of human evolution
Perhaps the most famous of Terence McKenna's theories and observations is his explanation for the origin of the human mind and culture. McKenna theorized that as the North African jungles receded toward the end of the most recent ice age, giving way to grasslands, a branch of our tree-dwelling primate ancestors left the branches and took up a life out in the open — following around herds of ungulates, nibbling what they could along the way.

Among the new items in their diet were psilocybin-containing mushrooms growing in the dung of these ungulate herds. McKenna, referencing the research of Roland L. Fisher Ph.D. (College of Optometry and Departments of Psychiatry and Pharmacology, College of Medicine, The Ohio State University)[14] [15] [16] [17], claimed enhancement of visual acuity as an effect of psilocybin at low doses, and supposed that this would have conferred an adaptive advantage. He also argued that the effects of slightly larger doses, including a physical sexual arousal (again, not reported as a typical effect in scientific studies) — and in still larger doses, ecstatic hallucinations and glossolalia — gave evolutionary advantages to those tribes who partook of it. There were many changes caused by the introduction of this drug to the primate diet. McKenna theorizes, for instance, that synesthesia (the blurring of boundaries between the senses) caused by psilocybin led to the development of spoken language: the ability to form pictures in another person's mind through the use of vocal sounds.

About 12,000 years ago, further climate changes removed the mushroom from the human diet, which McKenna argued to result in a new set of profound changes in our species as we reverted to pre-mushroomed and brutal primate social structures that had been modified and/or repressed by frequent consumption of psilocybin.

McKenna did not attempt to defend his hypotheses through rigorous scientific evidence; he consciously self-identified as a type of shaman, or ethnobotanist. McKenna and his followers view his theories as speculation that is at a minimum scientifically feasible and arguably gifted by special knowledge due to psychedelic plants. His hypothesis that psilocybin induced a phase change in human evolution is necessarily based on a great deal of supposition interpolating between the few fragmentary facts we know about hominid and early human history. But perhaps its most significant problem is its inconsistency with natural selection (the central concept of evolutionary theory) which cannot favor any variations, no matter how adaptive, unless they result from an allele or genetic factor.[citation needed] A live recording of his "Stoned Ape" theory can be found on the CD Conversations on the Edge of Magic (recorded live at the Starwood Festival).




Interesting, and here's Bill Hicks view from his Revelations show, live at the London Dominion Theatre London 1993



Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit... paranoid? You know what I mean? It's nature. How do you make nature against the fucking law? It grows everywhere. Serves a thousand different functions, all of them positive. To make marijuana against the law is like saying to God made a mistake. You know what I mean, it's like God on the seventh day looked down on his creation:
"There it is, my creation, perfect and holy in all ways. Now, I can rest."
[Mimes God looking around - spotting pot]
"Oh my me."
"I left fucking pot everywhere."
"I should never have smoked that joint on the third day ..shit."
"That was the day I created possums. Haha. Still gives me a chuckle."
"If I leave pot everywhere that's gonna to give humans the impression they're supposed to... 'use' it."
"(sigh)Now I have to create Republicans."
And God wept. I believe is the next verse. You know what I mean? I believe that God left certain drugs growing naturally upon our planet to help speed up and facilitate our evolution. Okay, not the most popular idea ever expressed. Either that or you're real high and agreeing with me in the only way you can right now.
"I forgot the code, is it two blinks yes, one blink no?"
Do you think magic mushrooms growing atop cow shit was an accident? Where do you think the phrase, 'that's good shit' came from? Why do you think Hindus think cows are holy? Holy shit! Why do I think MacDonalds is the Anti-Christ?
That's God little accelerator pad for our evolution. Let's think about this, man. For billions of years, sorry fundamentalists, we were nothing but apes. Hahahaha. Probably too stupid to catch a cow, you know.
[Mimes ape chasing and losing a cow]
[Ape spots shit]
[Wipes it offf foot]
[Eats mushroom - begins to giggle]
[Laughs]
[Laughs]
[laughs hysterically before lying back spaced out]
"I think we can go to the moon."
('Thus Spake Zarathustra' plays) [Applause]
That is exactly how it fucking happened.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

More and more recently I am coming across views online , trying to dis credit or mock Our Creator and his message(s) to and for us.

Why is it so difficult to Believe ?
To Have Faith ?

I am a FIRM believer , and nothing anyone can say, can change my FIRM belief in our Creator.
I am full of Faith !

Your questions could be put to Rastafari for answers .

God is not an Illusion
God is REAL !

And your only proof is faith? How does one pick which "faith" to believe? And why does "God" make that selection so difficult?

[JJ11]

And your only proof is faith? How does one pick which "faith" to believe? And why does "God" make that selection so difficult?

One can reason untill the "cows come home".
Reason has it's end.
Logic has it's end.
Faith does not.

There are certain things our limited minds can not comprehend.
God is above all, and is all knowing.

We cannot see the big picture in this carnal state.

Without Faith there is no understanding.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

One can reason untill the "cows come home".
Reason has it's end.
Logic has it's end.
Faith does not.

There are certain things our limited minds can not comprehend.
God is above all, and is all knowing.

We cannot see the big picture in this carnal state.

Without Faith there is no understanding.

In other words you can't answer my question. :conf44:

[JJ11]

In other words you can't answer my question. :conf44:

You can , with Prayer and Faith.

[DJEddieTwain]

these theories dont seem to me to disprove god

if you believe in god
then you must believe god created the mushrooms(or whatever else you can trip off of)


if god created the mushrooms that make people think they are closer to god it seems to me that mushrooms are like a telephone to the man himself

whats the problem?

[Chris Wood]

http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/movie/life_of_brian/lob04.jpg

[JJ11]

these theories dont seem to me to disprove god

if you believe in god
then you must believe god created the mushrooms(or whatever else you can trip off of)


if god created the mushrooms that make people think they are closer to god it seems to me that mushrooms are like a telephone to the man himself

whats the problem?

It is an interesting point.
Could be as you say..

Though what about the (poisen) Berrys that only birds can eat.
That your Mother tells you not to touch , as a child.

Perhaps some plants are not meant to be eaten and consumed by humans.

[Mack-Williams]

One thing we do know the guy wasn't there, so this is an assumption of his. You all would believe any other thing except that God has the power to do all these supernatural things.

[Martin Red]

More and more recently I am coming across views online , trying to dis credit or mock Our Creator and his message(s) to and for us.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition" :)

For centuries peoples have been harrassed, made witches and heretics, holy wars all in the name of religion. I think it's about time people where allowed to speak and have debate and mock history for the mess it's given us today.





Why is it so difficult to Believe ?


Which bit, which contradicting advise, the creating world in 7 days or parting the sea or an immaculate conception or the 7 day bit or water into wine or feeding 5000 people with a few fish.


To Have Faith ?


Have faith in a book written in a time where they couldn't refrigerate food, why ? , why have so much faith in 2000 years of propaganda. Then when it comes to facts like Global Warming, Bush the Christian lacks interest and walks from the global debate. When the a new version of the Bible mentions DNA I'll start listening again.



I am a FIRM believer , and nothing anyone can say, can change my FIRM belief in our Creator.
I am full of Faith

No debate then, you're wasting everyones time, including your own.




God is not an Illusion
God is REAL

In your opinion, but you have no proof, so i'm not going to believe someones word when they've been dead for hundreds of years, why is it dead people are believed so much more than people living in 2008.

CHEESE is REAL

OK, so why should I have faith in peoples words, so we should have faith in the loch ness monster and big foot.

I think your mad, and of course,I know you will forgive me for saying that :)

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

You can , with Prayer and Faith.

I have faith that religion is a farce.

[JJ11]

One thing we do know the guy wasn't there, so this is an assumption of his. You all would believe any other thing except that God has the power to do all these supernatural things.

Yes , I defintately without a doubt Believe
God has the power to do all supernatural things.

Dare to try Faith , and see the results.

[Martin Red]

One thing we do know the guy wasn't there, so this is an assumption of his. You all would believe any other thing except that God has the power to do all these supernatural things.

Yeah that's makes sense, because you where there right, looking really smart no doubt, rocking ye olde Boss sunglasses to stop the sand getting in your eyes.


Your alot older than you look.


Get the flock outta here.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Yes , I defintately without a doubt Believe
God has the power to do all supernatural things.

Dare to try Faith , and see the results.

What happens. You die? :conf44:

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Yeah that's makes sense, because you where there right, looking really smart no doubt, rocking ye olde Boss sunglasses to stop the sand getting in your eyes.


Your alot older than you look.


Get the flock outta here.

:rofl5:

[Martin Red]

Yes , I defintately without a doubt Believe
God has the power to do all supernatural things.

Dare to try Faith , and see the results.



Your still here, god doesn't exist.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Your still here, god doesn't exist.

Martin watch out. You may be hit by lightning today:tongueout:

[Mack-Williams]

Yeah that's makes sense, because you where there right, looking really smart no doubt, rocking ye olde Boss sunglasses to stop the sand getting in your eyes.


Your alot older than you look.


Get the flock outta here.

Whatever dude, but you didn't take that stand with Mr. Moses was high either. While the Hebrews had written records of the event.

[KBig]

"altered states" have been invoked forever to acheive a stasis that allows people insight into their own spirituality.

and YES its throughout the bible that canibus, khat, mushrooms and "teas" were used to "see", rec'vd and give testimony, and open up the human psyche to the divine realms.

Abraham, David and several women characters in the bible "partook" to commune with God.

You all are evaluating ancient rites, stories and chronicles from a perspective (modern christianity) innundated with MODERN restrictions, laws, and practices that prevent you from understanding just how DIFFERENT religion and its practices were BACK THEN.

what christians refuse to accept (even though it is written and documented) that PAGANISM and RITUALISTIC PRACTICES were as much apart of Christianity back if not the original premise from which Christianity came forth, from. Example... CHRISTMAS. (Christmas was an ancient pagan celebration of the Winter Solstice)

There were many PAGANS who impacted tribal jewish rituals and were usurped into CHristian lore.

Yall kiil me with the hyporcritical bs.... You can have a Spiritual Journey thru drugs alcohol and dancing in a club .... and have a relgious epiphany dancing and gyrating ... but ancient people certainly could not have used nature and plants to achieve alter states to have ephipanies, and commune with their spirituality.... gimme a phuccing break.

Again... Spirituality Explores... Religion Contains and Controls.

Dey got HIGH just like yall and had a good time seeing what God created for us ALL TO SEE and EXPERIENCE.

[Chris Wood]

Yes , I defintately without a doubt Believe
God has the power to do all supernatural things.

Dare to try Faith , and see the results.

what exactly has God done recently (talking within the last 1970 years here - after 'creating jesus' [who supposedly lived to about 30])? surely with all the wars, destroying the earth, empires created, people living in oppresion, holocausts, more wars, slavery etc he might have made an effort to do something about them? Or if not all just one tiny little act - maybe saving a kid or two??

Maybe he doesn't care...

or maybe he doesn't exist and never has done :)

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Whatever dude, but you didn't take that stand with Mr. Moses was high either. While the Hebrews had written records of the event.

They did?

Why didn't it make the history books? I can only imagine if that were taught in school as some type of history fact. I

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

More and more recently I am coming across views online , trying to dis credit or mock Our Creator and his message(s) to and for us.

Why is it so difficult to Believe ?
To Have Faith ?

I am a FIRM believer , and nothing anyone can say, can change my FIRM belief in our Creator.
I am full of Faith !

Your questions could be put to Rastafari for answers .

God is not an Illusion
God is REAL !

You will learn to stay out of conversations like this. There will always be studies to discredit beliefs, rather be God, Allah, Buddha etc. God doesn't need an attorney, stand your ground and bypass stuff like this when you see it. You are in for a lot of debate and heated arguments if you let this bother you.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

You will learn to stay out of conversations like this. There will always be studies to discredit beliefs, rather be God, Allah, Buddha etc. God doesn't need an attorney, stand your ground and bypass stuff like this when you see it. You are in for a lot of debate and heated arguments if you let this bother you.

This is what I don't get. If all-knowing and powerful, why does he need us mere humans to spread the word? Wouldn't a few miracles here or there convert a few million people?

[JJ11]

Not only speaking of religion.
Religion can have it's flaws.
Don't let that take away from the Fact of the REALITY of GOD.

I am Speaking about the intimate and personal relationships each one of us has with our Creator.
It is not Our Creator who distances from us , it is us who can distance our selves from our Creator.

By examining our life alone (not looking outside of our individual personal lives) , we can see why certain things occur to us personally.
Just like a Father rearing his child , our Creator will do the same to/for us.
It takes being sensative to understand this , and to adhere to it.
Trying to examine the outside (other peoples, media) and explain it , will only confuse.I am only living my personal life , and my Relationship with God is between God and I.
Same for each and every one of us as individuals.
You , I , He , She , We , all have a personal relationship with God.
We are each Created by God and God knows each and every hair on each of our heads.
Every step we take, God knows.
When we do something God does not approve of, God makes it known to us.
Whether I choose to accept that, as an individual is up to me.
Just as a Child has the choice to Listen and Follow what his Father instructs , or Not.

[DJEddieTwain]

true

maybe some things are not meant for us

but if it gets us closer to god why is it bad for us

if you could talk to god simply by going to church and "man" told you to stop going because its bad for you who are you gonna listen to

mushrooms might be like 3d glasses in the big movie theatre of life
or the speaker at a drive in

why not take advantage?

[Suspended]

One can reason untill the "cows come home".
Reason has it's end.
Logic has it's end.
Faith does not.

There are certain things our limited minds can not comprehend.
God is above all, and is all knowing.

We cannot see the big picture in this carnal state.

Without Faith there is no understanding.

If blindness is a limitation/disability, what is blind faith? Does it involve having a limited outlook?

[Martin Red]

Whatever dude, but you didn't take that stand with Mr. Moses was high either. While the Hebrews had written records of the event.

Oh, it must be true then sorry Mack :) I didn't know they had gone to the trouble of writing it down.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Not only speaking of religion.
Religion can have it's flaws.
Don't let that take away from the Fact of the REALITY of GOD.

I am Speaking about the intimate and personal relationships each one of us has with our Creator.
It is not Our Creator who distances from us , it is us who can distance our selves from our Creator.

By examining our life alone (not looking outside of our individual personal lives) , we can see why certain things occur to us personally.
Just like a Father rearing his child , our Creator will do the same to/for us.
It takes being sensative to understand this , and to adhere to it.
Trying to examine the outside (other peoples, media) and explain it , will only confuse.I am only living my personal life , and my Relationship with God is between God and I.
Same for each and every one of us as individuals.
You , I , He , She , We , all have a personal relationship with God.
We are each Created by God and God knows each and every hair on each of our heads.
Every step we take, God knows.
When we do something God does not approve of, God makes it known to us.
Whether I choose to accept that, as an individual is up to me.
Just as a Child has the choice to Listen and Follow what his Father instructs , or Not.

But you have to be of some religion to believe there is a god, otherwise where did you get the concept of god from?

[KBig]

You will learn to stay out of conversations like this. There will always be studies to discredit beliefs, rather be God, Allah, Buddha etc. God doesn't need an attorney, stand your ground and bypass stuff like this when you see it. You are in for a lot of debate and heated arguments if you let this bother you.


disputing Christianity and/or Orthodox Religions isnt disputing GOD. ITs disputing the practices of MAN ....


I dont have to be part of a Religion to "believe" in a higher source. I dont have to go to a church and give my money in order to FEEL that Im "highly favored" by the Divine.

I am divine ... just by my human existence alone... and that what religion is REALLY scared of...

What if the biblical personas were as human as we are... they got high, they fornicated, they killed, they married and committed adultery, they starved and they prospered, they were discovering their world same as we are still discovering ours... who's to say 1000 years from now someone reads our chronicles of this civilization and some how deem us unevolved and superstitious.... when we are just being "religious" ...


Christians dont READ ... they are scared to explore other information out there. I guess the Egyptians, Tanzanians, Pygmies, Pagans, and other ancient societies never existed before them and the Trinity is an original Christian premise, and the Sacred Feminine was never documented before the birth of Christ.

sheesh.... You Christians should toke more and read more...

[JJ11]

This is what I don't get. If all-knowing and powerful, why does he need us mere humans to spread the word? Wouldn't a few miracles here or there convert a few million people?

Miracles are right in front of our eyes.
It is whether or not we see them , not whether or not they exist.

[JJ11]

But you have to be of some religion to believe there is a god, otherwise where did you get the concept of god from?

In your own Family , there are Family members that make errors.
That does not make your whole Family Bad.

[Suspended]

Miracles are right in front of our eyes.
It is whether or not we see them , not whether or not they exist.

http://ccn1.net/POTD3/blessed-virgin-sandwich.JPG

[Martin Red]

my Relationship with God is between God and I.


I can respect that, I can also respect my friends wife, although I may find her pig ugly :)




When we do something God does not approve of, God makes it known to us.

So saying that, why don't we see a miracle with the Bush family getting raped by wild bears, it seems to me the evil bastards run amok and get away with it.

He took his time with Hitler..........(etc) didn't he.

Seems like this god person is playing a sick game with us earthlings.

And whilst we put all the responsibilities on this mythical god bloke, the world becomes hell, whilst people don't take responsibility for the earth they are currently on.

[KBig]

Miracles are right in front of our eyes.
It is whether or not we see them , not whether or not they exist.


You're a miracle and CHRISTIANITY has NOTHING to do with that.

Religion strips people of their personal power. It has you believing that your are LACKING something and you need "it", you need it's practices, you need it's rules, you need it to survive beyond this earthly realm... when the truth is until we transform and leave this earth NONE OF US KNOW what the end result of "this life" will be.

what kills me is it tells you in your own text.... Are ye not gods?

You are perfect and whole and lack nothing... You are here to EXPERIENCE this realm and move on (I.e EVOLVE) . You aint got shyt to learn or complete....

we are all here to EXPERIENCE life. thats its. anything else is to divert you from that task.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Miracles are right in front of our eyes.
It is whether or not we see them , not whether or not they exist.

Trying to debate you is impossible. You aren't saying or proving anything. You have faith. Ok good. Show me I should have the same faith you do. It ain't gonna work by your arguments here. By the way, when you die and are resurrected, which body do you come back in, and which house do you live in?

[JJ11]

You will learn to stay out of conversations like this. There will always be studies to discredit beliefs, rather be God, Allah, Buddha etc. God doesn't need an attorney, stand your ground and bypass stuff like this when you see it. You are in for a lot of debate and heated arguments if you let this bother you.

I would never bypass speaking of our Creator.
I Believe without a doubt, and am glad to say so.

[Martin Red]

http://ccn1.net/POTD3/blessed-virgin-sandwich.JPG


Hail John Lennon for here is the mark of Tefal setting no 3, praise be.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

I can respect that, I can also respect my friends wife, although I may find her pig ugly :)




So saying that, why don't we see a miracle with the Bush family getting raped by wild bears, it seems to me the evil bastards run amok and get away with it.

He took his time with Hitler..........(etc) didn't he.

Seems like this god person is playing a sick game with us earthlings.

And whilst we put all the responsibilities on this mythical god bloke, the world becomes hell, whilst people don't take responsibility for the earth they are currently on.

Cuz Bush doesn't believe in God. He plays off the fact that a whole lot of people do.

[Martin Red]

You're a miracle and CHRISTIANITY has NOTHING to do with that.

Religion strips people of their personal power. It has you believing that your are LACKING something and you need "it", you need it's practices, you need it's rules, you need it to survive beyond this earthly realm... when the truth is until we transform and leave this earth NONE OF US KNOW what the end result of "this life" will be.

what kills me is it tells you in your own text.... Are ye not gods?

You are perfect and whole and lack nothing... You are here to EXPERIENCE this realm and move on (I.e EVOLVE) . You aint got shyt to learn or complete....

we are all here to EXPERIENCE life. thats its. anything else is to divert you from that task.



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[Martin Red]

Cuz Bush doesn't believe in God. He plays off the fact that a whole lot of people do.
True

[KBig]

I would never bypass speaking of our Creator.
I Believe without a doubt, and am glad to say so.


I respect your faith. Its something I believe is innate within all humans. I just dont believe that Faith is a religious consequence.


U can have someone who has never been to church nor read a bible and they have this "feeling" which compels them ro move forward inspite of current conditions. To continue along a chosen path regardless of the obstacles seen and unseen...

Faith is nothing short of a person CONTINUING to make the SAME CHOICE over and over again despite the surrounding conditions impacting them.

it tells you that too in your bible.

Its the gift that was given to "us" the gift of choice. when you commit fully to your choices .... that is faith.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

A friend mine goes to a church that does question and answer after the service. So I said ask him about such and such. When she did, he said she would not be able to handle the answer. In other words I truly believe that so called religious teachers and leaders, know that they aren't preaching any kind of truth. They studied religion and most likely know this. But hey. A billion dollar tax-free industry. I ain't mad at their hustle.

[KBig]

A friend mine goes to a church that does question and answer after the service. So I said ask him about such and such. When she did, he said she would not be able to handle the answer. In other words I truly believe that so called religious teachers and leaders, know that they aren't preaching any kind of truth. They studied religion and most likely know this. But hey. A billion dollar tax-free industry. I ain't mad at their hustle.


Truth escaped Religion when Science and Math were removed from it.

they are the 3 amigos and go hand in hand.

[Bill Blake]

http://www.crystalinks.com/moses.html

"Several professors of archaeology claim that many stories in the Old Testament, including important chronicles about Moses, Solomon, and others, were actually made up for the first time by scribes hired by King Josiah (7th century BC) in order to rationalize monotheistic belief in Yahweh; and that no surviving written records from Egypt, Assyria, etc., refer to the stories of the Bible or its main characters before 650 BC."

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

I respect your faith. Its something I believe is innate within all humans. I just dont believe that Faith is a religious consequence.


U can have someone who has never been to church nor read a bible and they have this "feeling" which compels them ro move forward inspite of current conditions. To continue along a chosen path regardless of the obstacles seen and unseen...

Faith is nothing short of a person CONTINUING to make the SAME CHOICE over and over again despite the surrounding conditions impacting them.

it tells you that too in your bible.

Its the gift that was given to "us" the gift of choice. when you commit fully to your choices .... that is faith.


:thumbsup:. That's pretty much the concept of Buddhism right?

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

This is what I don't get. If all-knowing and powerful, why does he need us mere humans to spread the word? Wouldn't a few miracles here or there convert a few million people?

Not really, people only hear what they want. So why defend God when speaking to people that will discredit every word? There are many other people that will accept good words or a "testimony". Miracles happen everyday, rather people want to believe in God or not. This world is a horrible place if you don't know where you stand.

Some people fail to realize that God honors choice, therefore the outcome of many ridiculous catastrophes is because of people, NOT GOD. The whole World War was because of a Tyrant it was horrible but have anyone paid attention to the thousands of Jews that survived and told their stories and how they were able to hold on to life with a thread? Bad always overshadow good because people want to shake their fist at God and blame Him. God also honors agreement, rather good or bad. The holocaust, Black Slavery, Dafur, South Africa events, are all because of a dictator doing things their way. unfortunately people have to sacrifice their lives. It's better to triumph over victory rather than licking the wounds of the dead. If it weren't for the bad how would you know what's good?

*sidenote*

The Ten Commandments were laws to make the Jews do the will of God. After all of the deliverance and miracles, The Jews still were a "faithless nation". Moses went up on Mt. Sinai, he was in the face of God, which has a "drunken" effect. Since he was high, how was it his face got tanned and not the rest of his body, no it wasn't the sun either because God appeared in a thick cloud.

Anyway, as I said before, there will always be something. If we(the believers of God) spent more time convincing the "being" of God like some people here spend more time on the unbelief of God, we will be snubbed, ridiculed and banned. Being on the side of the believers we must have thick skin, with belief comes persecution.

Just saying...

[dj c-los]

Its the gift that was given to "us" the gift of choice. when you commit fully to your choices .... that is faith.

hmmm wouldnt that just say that you have faith in the things you do.
that aint the faith that's discussed in the bible.

[JJ11]

Trying to debate you is impossible. You aren't saying or proving anything. You have faith. Ok good. Show me I should have the same faith you do. It ain't gonna work by your arguments here. By the way, when you die and are resurrected, which body do you come back in, and which house do you live in?

I'm sorry , I did'nt see this as a debate or proving anything.

I am just expressing my firm belief in God.

simply kneel down and ask our Creator what you may, from your heart.
Even express your doubts if that is what you want to do.
Be senstive and alert for the answers , they come in different ways.

[Bill Blake]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

disputing Christianity and/or Orthodox Religions isnt disputing GOD. ITs disputing the practices of MAN ....


I dont have to be part of a Religion to "believe" in a higher source. I dont have to go to a church and give my money in order to FEEL that Im "highly favored" by the Divine.

I am divine ... just by my human existence alone... and that what religion is REALLY scared of...

What if the biblical personas were as human as we are... they got high, they fornicated, they killed, they married and committed adultery, they starved and they prospered, they were discovering their world same as we are still discovering ours... who's to say 1000 years from now someone reads our chronicles of this civilization and some how deem us unevolved and superstitious.... when we are just being "religious" ...


Christians dont READ ... they are scared to explore other information out there. I guess the Egyptians, Tanzanians, Pygmies, Pagans, and other ancient societies never existed before them and the Trinity is an original Christian premise, and the Sacred Feminine was never documented before the birth of Christ.

sheesh.... You Christians should toke more and read more...

I won't even justify this with a response.

[Mack-Williams]

They did?

Why didn't it make the history books? I can only imagine if that were taught in school as some type of history fact. I

Anything regarding religion and supernatural events doesn't make history books.

I have to say this about they Hebrews, they were not bias in the accounts of their nation. You will find the good times and bad times written in their accounts. They spoke of thier victories in Battle and their defeats. Other nations would only write about their victories and their prosperous times.

[Mack-Williams]

Oh, it must be true then sorry Mack :) I didn't know they had gone to the trouble of writing it down.

Why would you doubt it as being not true?

[KBig]

hmmm wouldnt that just say that you have faith in the things you do.
that aint the faith that's discussed in the bible.


Christians defer to "faith" to explain what they can not seemingly and rationally "prove". Im saying that faith isnt a christian value or premise. Its not a thing or a state of being that explains god.

Faith is a commitment to the choices you make and made.

You choose to follow a religion continuosly. U do so inspite of anything stated to you ... the assertion behind those choices is faith.

We all have it, we all use it ... it is not a Christian premise. ALTHOUGH the Bible was penned to explain it.

that all the bible is .... a chronicle laying out stories of ancient people and their choices.

The Divinity is not in the text itself, the divinity is in the choices that the humans of the bible made.

We all have faith .... and it does not explain GOD. Faith is choice to continue to believe in God or not to believe in GOD.

[KBig]

I won't even justify this with a response.


i love u dearly ... but you know the most devout Christians are the most ignorant.

Christians are scared into not reading, not educating themselves, and not exploring that which came before them and Christ...

and you know it !

[Mack-Williams]

Only way you gain faith is by Studying the Bible and that takes more than reading it or just showing up to Church.

[dj c-los]

Christians defer to "faith" to explain what they can not seemingly and rationally "prove". Im saying that faith isnt a christian value or premise. Its not a thing or a state of being that explains god.

Faith is a commitment to the choices you make and made.

You choose to follow a religion continuosly. U do so inspite of anything stated to you ... the assertion behind those choices is faith.

We all have it, we all use it ... it is not a Christian premise. ALTHOUGH the Bible was penned to explain it.

that all the bible is .... a chronicle laying out stories of ancient people and their choices.

The Divinity is not in the text itself, the divinity is in the choices that the humans of the bible made.

We all have faith .... and it does not explain GOD. Faith is choice to continue to believe in God or not to believe in GOD.

Hebrews 11:1
[By Faith] Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

this line alone explains faith. i sometimes think that people approach the bible in a way that they don't ask sincere questions. some attack it from the get go. What the next person believes in, i dont care but being a good person ain't really "knowing God." reading the bible and studying can answer many questions.
IMO

[KBig]

Only way you gain faith is by Studying the Bible and that takes more than reading it or just showing up to Church.


No mack... we all have faith.

Please explain why people who dont practice Christianity ... have faith?

Please explain to me what the people of the bible had before christ and church?

Faith is not a Christian Premise.

[KBig]

Hebrews 11:1
[By Faith] Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

this line alone explains faith. i sometimes think that people approach the bible in a way that they don't ask sincere questions. some attack it from the get go. What the next person believes in, i dont care but being a good person ain't really "knowing God." reading the bible and studying can answer many questions.
IMO


How do YOU KNOW who KNOW GOD ? hence the hubris and arrogance of Christianity.

There was LIFE before the Bible. There was FAITH Before the Bible. There was Nature, and Man, and Animals who all interacted BEFORE the BIBLE.
The bible is NOT the end all and be all. its a BOOK of stories depicting the lives of an ancient people in a particular region of the world and it depicts their attempt to rationalize and explain the world around them and their existence in it.

Hollar at me when yall Christians have cracked open The Secret Doctrine, or the Rig Veda, or the Torah, or the Book of coming Forth by Day, or Septuagint.

God according to Pastor Tbone Jones by way of the Junior edition Bible rewritten by mysogynistic homophobic homo's dont prove shyt.

[Mack-Williams]

No mack... we all have faith.

Please explain why people who dont practice Christianity ... have faith?

Please explain to me what the people of the bible had before christ and church?

Faith is not a Christian Premise.

You can have faith in anything you want. People put faith in the government, they have faith in their jobs. We are talking about Divine Faith, Faith in God, Faith in his Word, Faith in what you are believing is real. Muslims have faith too. The Hebrews of old had faith too. They were looking for the Messiah. They had faith in that.

[MYOR]

Nobody will know the truth untill they die..

You can agrue all you like:rofl5::rofl5:

[Martin Red]

Not really, people only hear what they want. ..


Apply that to religion





Some people fail to realize that God honors choice

Like my my brothers kid was born and died hours later, there was no choice






have anyone paid attention to the thousands of Jews that survived and told their stories and how they were able to hold on to life with a thread?

Yes, Just about everyone in the middle east and the greater world.




Bad always overshadow good because people want to shake their fist at God and blame Him.

So Gods a man, glad we cleared that up :)

Ever hear the sentence "lest we foget" it's written on alot of war memorials over here. people try and remember the bad for a reason.





God also honors agreement, rather good or bad. The holocaust, Black Slavery, Dafur, South Africa events, are all because of a dictator doing things their way. unfortunately people have to sacrifice their lives. It's better to triumph over victory rather than licking the wounds of the dead. If it weren't for the bad how would you know what's good?

IMHO

That is the most inane or insane nonsense I have read in a long time



*sidenote*

The Ten Commandments were laws to make the Jews do the will of God. After all of the deliverance and miracles, The Jews still were a "faithless nation". Moses went up on Mt. Sinai, he was in the face of God, which has a "drunken" effect. Since he was high, how was it his face got tanned and not the rest of his body, no it wasn't the sun either because God appeared in a thick cloud.

(Not even worthy of reply) IMHO



Anyway, as I said before, there will always be something. If we(the believers of God) spent more time convincing the "being" of God like some people here spend more time on the unbelief of God, we will be snubbed, ridiculed and banned. Being on the side of the believers we must have thick skin, with belief comes persecution. .


I believe there is a t pot in space , disprove that.

Religion works on the basis that if you can't disprove something it must be true

Science works on the basis of proof first, scientists try and prove a theory, rather than the other way round. We would still be using stones axes if science used the religious way of disproving first.

Just saying. :)

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Hebrews 11:1
[By Faith] Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

this line alone explains faith. i sometimes think that people approach the bible in a way that they don't ask sincere questions. some attack it from the get go. What the next person believes in, i dont care but being a good person ain't really "knowing God." reading the bible and studying can answer many questions.
IMO

For what it's worth, at one point in my life I considered being a clergyman. That's how much I was into the bible. BUT. I was very young. I hadnt studied alternative religions. In fact all I read was the bible. That is a huge mistake.

[Martin Red]

Nobody will know the truth untill they die..

You can agrue all you like:rofl5::rofl5:

The eternal question "what is the meaning of life" ,indeed we will all find out on that day, so why the rush, the meaning of life is the meaning of life :)

you're exactly right, but it kills time LOL
:)

[KBig]

Nobody will know the truth untill they die..

You can agrue all you like:rofl5::rofl5:


EGGGZACTLY .;.. and when we die ... I doubt Moses is gonna come down to me and hand me a blunt and say Yo Kells hit dis like we did back then.... bushes be burning and shyr girl this is some primo SHYT!


I doubt that .... that sont mean dude didnt toke... I believe all civilizations experiment with alter states at some time ..

Im just waiting my turn .... thats all LOL

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Nobody will know the truth untill they die..

You can agrue all you like:rofl5::rofl5:

In a nutshell.

[Martin Red]

They were looking for the Messiah.


"He's a very naughty boy"

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

EGGGZACTLY .;.. and when we die ... I doubt Moses is gonna come down to me and hand me a blunt and say Yo Kells hit dis like we did back then.... bushes be burning and shyr girl this is some primo SHYT!

You know you gonna take a toke of that spiritual weed :rofl5:

[dj c-los]

How do YOU KNOW who KNOW GOD ? hence the hubris and arrogance of Christianity.

There was LIFE before the Bible. There was FAITH Before the Bible. There was Nature, and Man, and Animals who all interacted BEFORE the BIBLE.
The bible is NOT the end all and be all. its a BOOK of stories depicting the lives of an ancient people in a particular region of the world and it depicts their attempt to rationalize and explain the world around them and their existence in it.

doctrine has ALWAYS existed with man. the stories you read have a common theme. ALL those people LOOK FORWARD to a moment in time. Their faith stretched forward to their messiah. WE as Chrisitians LOOK BACKWARDS to a moment in time and we call this the cross. So faith is something more than just "yes theres a god somewhere."
Many people feel that way. But if that's the faith you excercise then great.
It's not really arrogant. It's just a position. you dig, great. you don't cool.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

If Jewish Jesus did so many miraculous things, why do the Jews say those things never happened? They were there. :conf44:

[Martin Red]

Why would you doubt it as being not true?


I have faith in the Argos catalogue, why would you doubt the power of the laminated book of dreams :)

[dj c-los]

If Jewish Jesus did so many miraculous things, why do the Jews say those things never happened? They were there. :conf44:

the New Testament was written by Jews so there has to be a form of acknowledgement. :conf44:

[Martin Red]

Chrisitians LOOK BACKWARDS


Aint that the truth :)

[KBig]

Aint that the truth :)


omg Martin ... . I was about to say the same thing...


Thats a full testament there! lol

[JJ11]

For what it's worth, at one point in my life I considered being a clergyman. That's how much I was into the bible. BUT. I was very young. I hadnt studied alternative religions. In fact all I read was the bible. That is a huge mistake.

Much respect for Clergymen.
Yes, I think it is a great thin that you were into the bible so deeply.
Now that you have studied "alternative religions" , you could appreciate the bible that much more.

Follow your heart Brother.

[Moksha]

You all would believe any other thing except that God has the power to do all these supernatural things.

I think you mean "had the power."

He's apparently been on vacation from the miracles and smitings for a while.

[fred da warrior]

All you have to do is open your door and walk outside to witness that faith (and the manner in which that most people PRACTICE it) has become the absence of responsibility......

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Much respect for Clergymen.
Yes, I think it is a great thin that you were into the bible so deeply.
Now that you have studied "alternative religions" , you could appreciate the bible that much more.

Follow your heart Brother.

I think I will start doing exactly what the bible says. Starting with these laws:


The killing of homosexuals is condoned and encouraged in the wonderful laws of Leviticus. Leviticus 20:13 clearly states "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Well there you have it, Homosexuality is wrong, and they must pay the ultimate price... IN THE NAME OF GOD!!!

Who else shouldn't people do?

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9) Have you ever done that?

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10). I wonder if Dr. Laura would like that one to be enforced?

If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)

If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)

If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16). I guess you should kill the animal since they were willing participants. Are they crazy?

If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)

Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)

If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

One must wonder why there are so many people wanting to site Leviticus for gay bashing, but they never mention these rules. How strange. It is common that a Christian will blow off these old rules with "Jesus came to change the laws, so these are outmoded, and we don't need them", but throughout Leviticus God states that these laws are to be followed forever. Hmmm.

The Ten Commandments

The Ten Commandments are very famous examples of Biblical rules, but it can be amazing how few people know what's included in them. Let's recap.

1. You are to have no other gods before God

2. You are not to make any graven images.

3. Don't use the Lord's name in vain

4. Keep the Sabbath holy

5. Honor your mother and father

6. Do not kill

7. Do not commit adultery.

8. Don't steal

9. Don't bear false witness.

10. Don't covet the neighbor's house.

Here are some things you may not know were included within the commandments.

People seem to think the second commandment says you aren't supposed to make a graven image of God, and that's it. But you are not to make any graven images of anything in heaven, in the earth, or in the water. This would include no graven images of fish, moles, worms, birds, shrimp, ants, and all sorts of things. One must wonder why God was so worried about these things that he felt the need to put these ahead of murder and stealing.

In the third commandment, people think that means we shouldn't work, but just go to church on the Sabbath. But NOBODY is to do any work, including your employees, your cattle, nor anyone who is visiting you.

While you are not coveting your neighbor's house, also refrain from coveting other things he owns, like his wife, ass, and ox.

The Often Overlooked Rules in Deuteronomy

The book Deuteronomy also lays some laws down, but nobody ever mentions them, but why not take a look at those laws also?

Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death. (Deuteronomy 13:5)

If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God, kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15)

Kill anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7)

This shows you that it really is scary that people want to make the Bible part of the law. Not to mention it sheds light on why Christians are so overly oppressive to those who don't share their belief. Sick, sick, sick. It can also be said that any person who uses the Bible to justify beating a homosexual, is a hypocrite if he doesn't adhere to all of these laws.

http://biblebabble.curbjaw.com/laws.htm

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

All you have to do is open your door and walk outside to witness that faith (and the manner in which that most people PRACTICE it) has become the absence of responsibility......

For example?

[Martin Red]

omg Martin ... . I was about to say the same thing...


Thats a full testament there! lol


god works in wacky and mysterious ways :)

[JJ11]

If Jewish Jesus did so many miraculous things, why do the Jews say those things never happened? They were there. :conf44:

Jesus brought Truth to all.

Amongst his followers are Jews and Gentiles.

Of the Jews spoken of in the Bible, who did not believe the Truths that Jesus brought , they put Practices and "Religion" before Truth.
Just as much "Religion" (of various kinds, including those claiming "Christianity") , does today.

Read any and all about Jesus in the Bible , and you will see for yourself , that nothing bad can be said about him and the message and he brings.
He only brings Truth.

[Mack-Williams]

If Jewish Jesus did so many miraculous things, why do the Jews say those things never happened? They were there. :conf44:

This is were the Bible gets deep. They were looking for an Messiah to deliver them from the Romans. The coming of Jesus didn't have the affect in what they are looking for. They had the timeline on when he was coming they even had propecies that were fulfilled. Here's a little something to read got it from an Awake.

This “miracle” began in the first book of the Bible. In addition to the first Bible prophecy that indicated the role of the Messiah, the writer of Genesis recorded that the Messiah would come through Abraham’s line of descent. (Genesis 3:15; 22:15-18) Another clue revealed that the Messiah would be of the tribe of Judah. (Genesis 49:10) God told the Israelites through Moses that the Messiah would be a greater spokesman and deliverer than even Moses.—Deuteronomy 18:18.

During King David’s time, prophecy revealed that the Messiah would be David’s heir to the throne and that His kingdom would be “firmly established to time indefinite.” (2 Samuel 7:13-16) The book of Micah disclosed that the Messiah would be born in David’s town, Bethlehem. (Micah 5:2) Isaiah foretold that He would be born of a virgin. (Isaiah 7:14) The prophet Malachi predicted that His coming would be heralded by someone like Elijah.—Malachi 4:5, 6.

A further defining Messianic detail appeared in the book of Daniel. Pinpointing the very year of the Messiah’s appearance, the prophecy states: “You should know and have the insight that from the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times.”—Daniel 9:25.

Persian King Artaxerxes gave “the word” to restore and rebuild Jerusalem in the 20th year of his reign. His reign began in 474 B.C.E., so his 20th year would be 455 B.C.E. (Nehemiah 2:1-8) Thus, a period of 69 (7 plus 62) prophetic weeks would separate the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem and the appearance of the Messiah. Sixty-nine literal weeks, of course, equal only 483 days, or less than two years. But when the stated prophetic rule of “a day for a year” is applied, it reveals that the Messiah would appear 483 years later, in 29 C.E.—Ezekiel 4:6

[Martin Red]

All you have to do is open your door and walk outside to witness that faith

Islam or Christianity



:conf44:

[blackwax]

"He's a very naughty boy"

hahaha Life of Brian

[Martin Red]

He only brings Truth.


truth with proof

T pot in space, respect the power of the spout.

[fred da warrior]

For example?

We both live in communities with 6-7 churches on every block or mega churches with large memberships of people of "faith" who after 11:30 service walk out into the world unequipped and unprepared to deal with all the maladies that afflict them, even though they are "highly favored", "have the armor of God" and "annointed".....instead, they look to the sky hoping "Jesus will work it out" and spend a lifetime of suffering looking for the heavenly reward and let hell (most of it self-inflicted) impact them everyday.....

[Bill Blake]

We both live in communities with 6-7 churches on every block or mega churches with large memberships of people of "faith" who after 11:30 service walk out into the world unequipped and unprepared to deal with all the maladies that afflict them

That's what the liquor store on the same blocks are for...

[JJ11]

I think I will start doing exactly what the bible says. Starting with these laws:


The killing of homosexuals is condoned and encouraged in the wonderful laws of Leviticus. Leviticus 20:13 clearly states "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Well there you have it, Homosexuality is wrong, and they must pay the ultimate price... IN THE NAME OF GOD!!!

Who else shouldn't people do?

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)
"
Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9) Have you ever done that?

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10). I wonder if Dr. Laura would like that one to be enforced?

If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)

If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)

If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16). I guess you should kill the animal since they were willing participants. Are they crazy?

If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)

Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)

If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

One must wonder why there are so many people wanting to site Leviticus for gay bashing, but they never mention these rules. How strange. It is common that a Christian will blow off these old rules with "Jesus came to change the laws, so these are outmoded, and we don't need them", but throughout Leviticus God states that these laws are to be followed forever. Hmmm.

The Ten Commandments

The Ten Commandments are very famous examples of Biblical rules, but it can be amazing how few people know what's included in them. Let's recap.

1. You are to have no other gods before God

2. You are not to make any graven images.

3. Don't use the Lord's name in vain

4. Keep the Sabbath holy

5. Honor your mother and father

6. Do not kill

7. Do not commit adultery.

8. Don't steal

9. Don't bear false witness.

10. Don't covet the neighbor's house.

Here are some things you may not know were included within the commandments.

People seem to think the second commandment says you aren't supposed to make a graven image of God, and that's it. But you are not to make any graven images of anything in heaven, in the earth, or in the water. This would include no graven images of fish, moles, worms, birds, shrimp, ants, and all sorts of things. One must wonder why God was so worried about these things that he felt the need to put these ahead of murder and stealing.

In the third commandment, people think that means we shouldn't work, but just go to church on the Sabbath. But NOBODY is to do any work, including your employees, your cattle, nor anyone who is visiting you.

While you are not coveting your neighbor's house, also refrain from coveting other things he owns, like his wife, ass, and ox.

The Often Overlooked Rules in Deuteronomy

The book Deuteronomy also lays some laws down, but nobody ever mentions them, but why not take a look at those laws also?

Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death. (Deuteronomy 13:5)

If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God, kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15)

Kill anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7)

This shows you that it really is scary that people want to make the Bible part of the law. Not to mention it sheds light on why Christians are so overly oppressive to those who don't share their belief. Sick, sick, sick. It can also be said that any person who uses the Bible to justify beating a homosexual, is a hypocrite if he doesn't adhere to all of these laws.

http://biblebabble.curbjaw.com/laws.htm


Majority of what is copy and pasted here above , is written out of context.
Some not exact quotes , but rephrases.

If I wrote a sentence like.
"I walked my Son to the the corner for ice cream , and he crossed the street alone as i watched him".
and one simply chose to quote out of context ,
"he crossed the street alone" , or even rephrased a portion of the sentence , it could be seen to mean something far from what was intended in original sentence.

In order to understand what is copied and pasted above, one needs to read it IN context , directly from the Bible.
There is much that goes with what you would like to refer to.

[fred da warrior]

Islam or Christianity



:conf44:

don't matter, but arguments like these generally gets Christians in an uproar

[dj c-los]

Majority of what is copy and pasted here above , is written out of context.
Some not exact quotes , but rephrases.

If I wrote a sentence like.
"I walked my Son to the the corner for ice cream , and he crossed the street alone as i watched him".
and one simply chose to quote out of context ,
"he crossed the street alone" , or even rephrased a portion of the sentence , it could be seen to mean something far from what was intended in original sentence.

In order to understand what is copied and pasted above, one needs to read it IN context , directly from the Bible.
There is much that goes with what you would like to refer to.

some people want to ask honestly about things and some just go and copy and paste links from things theyve heard. a friend of mine asked a question about a scripture and said he saw an error. i asked him to read the next line and his quesiton was answered. this happens all the time.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Apply that to religion





Like my my brothers kid was born and died hours later, there was no choice





Yes, Just about everyone in the middle east and the greater world.




So Gods a man, glad we cleared that up :)

Ever hear the sentence "lest we foget" it's written on alot of war memorials over here. people try and remember the bad for a reason.





IMHO

That is the most inane or insane nonsense I have read in a long time



(Not even worthy of reply) IMHO




I believe there is a t pot in space , disprove that.

Religion works on the basis that if you can't disprove something it must be true

Science works on the basis of proof first, scientists try and prove a theory, rather than the other way round. We would still be using stones axes if science used the religious way of disproving first.

Just saying. :)

For years science and religion didn't mix. Actually, if I were to go down south to a church and say to them "The world is millions of years old" I'll be stoned (no pun intended).

I totally understand why you guys have a field day on God, the beliefs of God and so on. What I don't understand what makes your disproving right, when you guys are the ones that start the conversations on "bible" or "religion" bashing? Tony isn't on here featuring his beliefs anymore. So what give you guys the right to openly discredit others beliefs rather you want to believe in them or not.

Why should anyone listen to what you have to say, even if you back it with other peoples opinions? There are hundreds of writings, books and opinions based on the "right" of the religious. Would I bother to post it? Nope, like I said before, God doesn't need an attorney, what God does would never be understood. God created us, the world is round and millions and billions years old, there is a such thing as higher levels of self within the realm of God. Science don't make sense to the "RELIGIOUS" and Religion don't make sense to the "Scientific". Which is a huge misconception. You really can't have one without the other no matter how retarded you think it is. People are connected to a higher source and science can't figure it out or prove it, the laws of nature, the laws of physics, the laws of gravity, etc., the religious ignore and tend to think that God is a Magi. God operates in agreement and ones that are willing to "accept" HIM.

To understand both, you can walk complete.

[KBig]

Do any of the Christians in this thread dispute that the Commandments are derived from the Negative Confessions of Maat?


also ... The original premise was that Moses got high to rec'v the 10 Commandments. Do Christians dispute drug use in the bible?

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Majority of what is copy and pasted here above , is written out of context.
Some not exact quotes , but rephrases.

If I wrote a sentence like.
"I walked my Son to the the corner for ice cream , and he crossed the street alone as i watched him".
and one simply chose to quote out of context ,
"he crossed the street alone" , or even rephrased a portion of the sentence , it could be seen to mean something far from what was intended in original sentence.

In order to understand what is copied and pasted above, one needs to read it IN context , directly from the Bible.
There is much that goes with what you would like to refer to.


Which one is out of context?

[JJ11]

some people want to ask honestly about things and some just go and copy and paste links from things theyve heard. a friend of mine asked a question about a scripture and said he saw an error. i asked him to read the next line and his quesiton was answered. this happens all the time.

Excactly

[Moksha]

Majority of what is copy and pasted here above , is written out of context.
Some not exact quotes , but rephrases.

If I wrote a sentence like.
"I walked my Son to the the corner for ice cream , and he crossed the street alone as i watched him".
and one simply chose to quote out of context ,
"he crossed the street alone" , or even rephrased a portion of the sentence , it could be seen to mean something far from what was intended in original sentence.

In order to understand what is copied and pasted above, one needs to read it IN context , directly from the Bible.
There is much that goes with what you would like to refer to.


Put this in it's correct Biblical context, then:

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10)

[dj c-los]

Which one is out of context?

well, let me ask you a question.

What is the difference between Levitical law and the 10 commandments?

you just copied and pasted all these things that are supposed to happen if someone does something bad and then you have the 10 commndements. There could of been all these things summed into one.

you copied and pasted so do you know the difference?

[DJEddieTwain]

Context???????

i guess you got the original copy of the bible?

the context you speak of has been censored and interperated for 2 thousand years

[Moksha]

well, let me ask you a question.

What is the difference between Levitical law and the 10 commandments?

you just copied and pasted all these things that are supposed to happen if someone does something bad and then you have the 10 commndements. There could of been all these things summed into one.

you copied and pasted so do you know the difference?

it's polite to answer your adversary's question before asking one of your own.

[Mack-Williams]

Do any of the Christians in this thread dispute that the Commandments are derived from the Negative Confessions of Maat?


also ... The original premise was that Moses got high to rec'v the 10 Commandments. Do Christians dispute drug use in the bible?

How is that relevant? Those were the basic Ten laws. They had way more as Timmy listed from Leviticus. Was any of them taking from Maat?

[dj c-los]

it's polite to answer your adversary's question before asking one of your own.

so you know the answer?
because if you dont know the answer then how are you going to understand what is out of context?
i can give the answer "x y z..." and it won't mean anything to you.

he maybe knows the answer. im not saying he doesn't.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

well, let me ask you a question.

What is the difference between Levitical law and the 10 commandments?

you just copied and pasted all these things that are supposed to happen if someone does something bad and then you have the 10 commndements. There could of been all these things summed into one.

you copied and pasted so do you know the difference?

You first.

[Moksha]

so you know the answer?
because if you dont know the answer then how are you going to understand what is out of context?
i can give the answer "x y z..." and it won't mean anything to you.

he maybe knows the answer. im not saying he doesn't.

Just answer his question, if you can.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Just answer his question, if you can.

Faith.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Do any of the Christians in this thread dispute that the Commandments are derived from the Negative Confessions of Maat?


also ... The original premise was that Moses got high to rec'v the 10 Commandments. Do Christians dispute drug use in the bible?

I don't dispute anything that had nothing to do with me. The bible is a teaching tool for everyday life. Parts of the bible were written to the Jew. The other parts to the Gentile. Rather the commandments were stolen from the Egyptians, don't know. However, I could understand why God would set it up that way. understand the Jews were in Egypt for many years, under their law, so God could have made a familiar tool to get the Jews to obey. Since they were missing the old ways, when they thought God has abandoned them. God was trying to persuade the Jews of His existence, mercy and miracles since they were delivered out of the hands of the Egyptians. The books of law were designed for the Jew only because God couldn't persuade them to believe that there was a promised land. Other gods come in from other civilizations and cultures. So yes, it's hard to determine who is right and who is wrong. Why can't it be, "so be it"?

As far as drug use? don't know, don't care. Hell Solomon had over 700+ wives and concubines, and he still was able to build a temple dedicated to God. What we do on the sidelines shouldn't take us from purpose. If we to drink, smoke, do drugs or whatever shouldn't take us from our purpose. When it does it causes a problem.

[E-Phi]

Was any of them taking from Maat?
Yup.

[Moksha]

Faith.

The thing about arguing about scripture with these people is that they get to choose when to interpret literally and when to interpret figuratively. They can change the rules at their own whims.

The funny thing is, of course, that they are usually totally ignorant about all the historical, theological and literary study that has been done. (Like half the so-called Christians who didn't know what Immaculate Conception was last week.)

[djmarbll]

If this is true, are the Ten Commandments real or something
Moses imagined while he was trippin?

The Ten Commandments are an abridged version of much older texts, including the 42 Confessions of Ma'at.

[SuzanneT]

the New Testament was written by Jews so there has to be a form of acknowledgement. :conf44:
The Apostle Paul, who is the creator of Christianity and the writer of many of the books of the new testament was Greek.

[Mack-Williams]

Yup.

Think Discolady gave a good explanation of this.

[djmarbll]

One can reason untill the "cows come home".
Reason has it's end.
Logic has it's end.
Faith does not.

There are certain things our limited minds can not comprehend.
God is above all, and is all knowing.

We cannot see the big picture in this carnal state.

Without Faith there is no understanding.

Reason and logic have ends because they're based on proving what you believe. Faith is based on believing what you cannot prove.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

The Apostle Paul, who is the creator of Christianity and the writer of many of the books of the new testament was Greek.

Probably why he wrote it in Greek as opposed to Aramaic 9Hebrew).

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Reason and logic have ends because they're based on proving what you believe. Faith is based on believing what you cannot prove.

And they're good music programs :acclaim:

[dj c-los]

You first.

so you copied and pasted someone thoughts...cool.

the first half is Levitical law and the second half is the 10 commandments.

Deut. 4
13 He declared to you (he's talking to the Jews) his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.

14 And the LORD directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.

so every line you copied saying Lev x:xx is something the Jewish government enforced. The 10 commandments are identification of sin within yourself.
Who hasn't broken a commandment? everyone has in one point of their lives.

Do we enforce Levitical laws?
no. so that author's arguement really has no point because no one does these any longer not even today's Jews.

you copied and pasted to show how "evil" it was....yes it was.
the author should have said "Christians should be doing this all the time" was your point?

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

so you copied and pasted someone thoughts...cool.

the first half is Levitical law and the second half is the 10 commandments.

Deut. 4
13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.

14 And the LORD directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.

so every line you copied saying Lev x:xx is something the Jewish government enforced. The 10 commandments are identification of sin within yourself.
Who hasn't broken a commandment? everyone has in one point of their lives.

Do we enforce Levitical laws?
no. so that author's arguement really has no point because no one does these any longer not even today's Jews.

you copied and pasted to show how "evil" it was....yes it was.
the author should have said "Christians should be doing this all the time."

I knew the "these laws aren't for today' argument was coming. Gee. More confusion. So unless it's one of the ten commandments, you can ignore the other laws. I see now. Thanks for the clarification.

[djmarbll]

these theories dont seem to me to disprove god

if you believe in god
then you must believe god created the mushrooms(or whatever else you can trip off of)


if god created the mushrooms that make people think they are closer to god it seems to me that mushrooms are like a telephone to the man himself

whats the problem?

The problem is Christians are taught not to take any illicit drugs, even though mushrooms have been consumed by people even before the Bible was written.

[dj c-los]

I knew the "these laws aren't for today' argument was coming. Gee. More confusion. So unless it's one of the ten commandments, you can ignore the other laws. I see now. Thanks for the clarification.

so what was your point to copy and paste if you knew it?
to show how "bad" things were? i said "yes" it was.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

so you copied and pasted someone thoughts...cool.

the first half is Levitical law and the second half is the 10 commandments.

Deut. 4
13 He declared to you (he's talking to the Jews) his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.

14 And the LORD directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.

so every line you copied saying Lev x:xx is something the Jewish government enforced. The 10 commandments are identification of sin within yourself.
Who hasn't broken a commandment? everyone has in one point of their lives.

Do we enforce Levitical laws?
no. so that author's arguement really has no point because no one does these any longer not even today's Jews.

you copied and pasted to show how "evil" it was....yes it was.
the author should have said "Christians should be doing this all the time."

Why does it ,atter if I copy and pasted (and put the link by the way). That's what bible thumpers do all the time. Copy and paste their thoughts from the bible. Instead of having their own thoughts. JJ asked me to reach inside and have faith. I'm saying it's hard to have faith in something that has these types of laws. They aren't very God-like.

And which ones don't the Jews follow. I work for Orthodox Jews and they pretty much follow those laws. Which is more than I can say for Christians. In fact I will go so far as to say most Christians disregard the laws UNLESS it's one of the ten commandments. And even those they don't follow.

[Mack-Williams]

Probably why he wrote it in Greek as opposed to Aramaic 9Hebrew).

Probably why he was chosen to spread the word. Most of his preaching was done outside of Judea.

[E-Phi]

Think Discolady gave a good explanation of this.
Nope.

[TAD]

Oh, it must be true then sorry Mack :) I didn't know they had gone to the trouble of writing it down.

didn't you get the memo? all written word is true.

btw Mack, that written word was written 4 to 500 YEARS BEFORE THE SUPPOSED BIRTH OF MOSES. that's 20 GENERATIONS.

moses was actually practicing reductionism.

MAAT!!!

[Mack-Williams]

Nope.

How is it relevant then?

[E-Phi]

The Apostle Paul, who is the creator of Christianity and the writer of many of the books of the new testament was Greek.
To be the creator of something and yet never having met the person. MAYBE Paul was eating mushrooms when he had his vision.:wink:

[dj c-los]

Why does it ,atter if I copy and pasted (and put the link by the way). That's what bible thumpers do all the time. Copy and paste their thoughts from the bible. Instead of having their own thoughts. JJ asked me to reach inside and have faith. I'm saying it's hard to have faith in something that has these types of laws. They aren't very God-like.

And which ones don't the Jews follow. I work for Orthodox Jews and they pretty much follow those laws. Which is more than I can say for Christians. In fact I will go so far as to say most Christians disregard the laws UNLESS it's one of the ten commandments. And even those they don't follow.

in all seriousness i hear that all the time. people sin and go to church. hell i know muslim friends that hit the strip club after work. we get buddhists here that flirt with co-workers and have pics of their families on their desks.
at the end it's up to an individual to make personal decisions.
I was raised around hypocrits but that never stopped me from saying "alright what's this buzz all about regarding the Bible?"

knowing the Bible is like school-like. you'll know who is in first grade and you'll know who knows their stuff.

to each his own. im more about having itelligent conversations. i dont beat no one over the head with anything.

[Mack-Williams]

didn't you get the memo? all written word is true.

btw Mack, that written word was written 4 to 500 YEARS BEFORE THE SUPPOSED BIRTH OF MOSES. that's 20 GENERATIONS.

moses was actually practicing reductionism.

MAAT!!!

You ever heard of history being passed down from Generations. Moses also had insight from God.

[TAD]

Perhaps some plants are not meant to be eaten and consumed by humans.

yeah cuz they're poison? duhhhhh!!! maybe the berry tree doesn't like to be eaten?

[djmarbll]

Nobody will know the truth untill they die..

You can agrue all you like:rofl5::rofl5:

But the sad reality is countless people have been killed because they didn't ascribe to the belief system of another.

[Mack-Williams]

To be the creator of something and yet never having met the person. MAYBE Paul was eating mushrooms when he had his vision.:wink:

Why go from persurcutor to the main spoke person and end up being killed for your beliefs. He had to have some divine insight.

[Chris Conrad]

And they're good music programs :acclaim:

coming to the next issue of Electronic Musician magazine, a review on the new music software making waves within the productions community...coming soon to a computer near you: Faith, the digital production software to rival them all...move over Logic, Protools, Ableton etc...this software makes the track for you before you even think of it...even if you don't like th outcome, it tells you that you will, with no explanation...this software will create the hits for you based on faith and belief in it...

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

in all seriousness i hear that all the time. people sin and go to church. hell i know muslim friends that hit the strip club after work. we get buddhists here that flirt with co-workers and have pics of their families on their desks.
at the end it's up to an individual to make personal decisions.
I was raised around hypocrits but that never stopped me from saying "alright what's this buzz all about regarding the Bible?"

knowing the Bible is like school-like. you'll know who is in first grade and you'll know who knows their stuff.

to each his own. im more about having itelligent conversations. i dont beat no one over the head with anything.

And I will concede that the Bible and most religious books are good advice. But some of it is a little extreme. Like the part about hardly being able to have sex with your wife but for a few days out of the month because she is unclean.

[Chris Conrad]

Why go from persurcutor to the main spoke person and end up being killed for your beliefs. He had to have some divine insight.

dude, even the history channel had shows questioning his role...

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

coming to the next issue of Electronic Musician magazine, a review on the new music software making waves within the productions community...coming soon to a computer near you: Faith, the digital production software to rival them all...move over Logic, Protools, Ableton etc...this software makes the track for you before you even think of it...even if you don't like th outcome, it tells you that you will, with no explanation...this software will create the hits for you based on faith and belief in it...

How much? :rofl:

[Sal Paradise]

Truth escaped Religion when Science and Math were removed from it.

they are the 3 amigos and go hand in hand.

While I agree with you I also think science suffers from it's faith in nothing. And find dogmatic aethists as ridiculous as bible thumpers.

Why does the fact that Moses might have been tripping somehow negate spirtual context? Pychadelics have often been at the center of connection to the sprit world for thousands of years. Since it is all the same stuff as in there is either something out there or there isn't, why should this be any different.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

dude, even the history channel had shows questioning his role...

I think it was The History Channel that had a show dedicated to scientifically explaining the plagues. Interesting how some experts believe The Red/Reed Sea miracle was a tsunami. Makes sense actually. But then again science always makes sense.

[Sal Paradise]

I think it was The History Channel that had a show dedicated to scientifically explaining the plagues. Interesting how some experts believe The Red/Reed Sea miracle was a tsunami. Makes sense actually. But then again science always makes sense.

Did you see that clip on the internet receantly of the twin cyclones in the medeterranean? Man if that doesn't look biblical I don't know what does.

Science is great for everything it can explain. But the truth and this will never change is much more is unexplained yet still exists.

[dj c-los]

And I will concede that the Bible and most religious books are good advice. But some of it is a little extreme. Like the part about hardly being able to have sex with your wife but for a few days out of the month because she is unclean.

and that's cool.
one thing i dont like about Christianity is that some people should not say anything but take notes. everyone with a bible is an expert.
if some one talks to me about scripture cool but if imma ask you something back and youre "uhing and umming" then imma think you heard a good sermon somewhere and just trying to pass it to me.
i aint perfect but if i dont know imma say it.
most dont know how to say "i dont know."

[djmarbll]

Much respect for Clergymen.
Yes, I think it is a great thin that you were into the bible so deeply.
Now that you have studied "alternative religions" , you could appreciate the bible that much more.

Follow your heart Brother.

If Timmy studied alternative religions, don't you think it would give him a greater appreciation for the books the predate the Bible, such as The Book of Coming Forth by Day and Night, the Husia, or the Enuma Elish. Many stories in the Bible are directly from these older texts, including the Creation and the Flood. Don't you think its more important to study the source and not hearsay, to study the teacher and not the student? Even the Bible itself says "study to show thyself approved" I can count on one hand the Christians I know who study texts written before the Bible, and we're not even dealing with the ancient Kemetic foundations of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam which are carved in stone.

[Mack-Williams]

dude, even the history channel had shows questioning his role...

You always will have your conspiracy theorist out there. He served his purpose.

[Mack-Williams]

I think it was The History Channel that had a show dedicated to scientifically explaining the plagues. Interesting how some experts believe The Red/Reed Sea miracle was a tsunami. Makes sense actually. But then again science always makes sense.

Still were they there. All those people walking through a Tsunami come on yall.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

If Timmy studied alternative religions, don't you think it would give him a greater appreciation for the books the predate the Bible, such as The Book of Coming Forth by Day and Night, the Husia, or the Enuma Elish. Many stories in the Bible are directly from these older texts, including the Creation and the Flood. Don't you think its more important to study the source and not hearsay, to study the teacher and not the student? Even the Bible itself says "study to show thyself approved" I can count on one hand the Christians I know who study texts written before the Bible, and we're not even dealing with the ancient Kemetic foundations of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam which are carved in stone.

Because we are programmed from a child to believe whatever religious book is in your family, is holy and sacred. It's like you were never given the chance to know any other religions. And it's a form of brainwashing. One of my bosses' brothers married a Non-Jew. He doesn't speak to him anymore. How could God want that?

[Sal Paradise]

If Timmy studied alternative religions, don't you think it would give him a greater appreciation for the books the predate the Bible, such as The Book of Coming Forth by Day and Night, the Husia, or the Enuma Elish. Many stories in the Bible are directly from these older texts, including the Creation and the Flood. Don't you think its more important to study the source and not hearsay, to study the teacher and not the student? Even the Bible itself says "study to show thyself approved" I can count on one hand the Christians I know who study texts written before the Bible, and we're not even dealing with the ancient Kemetic foundations of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam which are carved in stone.

yes an no. I say no because I balieve real knowledge still exist in the text. I say yes because clearly as a seeker of wisdom you benefit greatly from studying a source. I have never thought of it as a literal telling. It comes from an oral tradition and the truths are not in all the specifics necessarily and I don't see why everything has to be proven to be understood. Metaphor, analogy, hyperbole etc all existed back in the day to.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Still were they there. All those people walking through a Tsunami come on yall.

You may change your mind if you watch the show. The Reed Sea was known for having tsunamis. http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/history/moses_4.shtml

[TAD]

You ever heard of history being passed down from Generations. Moses also had insight from God.

moses is just as elusive as jesus when it comes to his authenticity. rabbi's are divided on his existence.

In the final analysis, attributing Moses to a specific person, or even determining which specific Pharaoh was involved may always be a matter of speculation. To the modern reader, the biblical Moses seems to oscillate between tradition and reality, and more secure historical knowledge is probably not possible, at least at present.. And though an Exodus could have taken place, the specific details recorded in the Bible largely fall outside the sphere of probability, given the silence of any Egyptian record.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/moses.htm


A fairly recent documentary starring Charlton Heston which has aired on the Discovery Channel and other education networks made an argument for Akhenaten, Egypt's 18th Dynasty heretic King with Moses of biblical fame. There is nothing new in this argument, which has been made since antiquity. Even Manetho, and Egyptian Priest (c. 300 BC) who wrote a valuable history of Egypt claims that the founder of monotheism, whom he called Osarsiph, assumed the name Moses and led his followers out of Egypt in Akhenaten's reign. Afterwards, other writers such as Lysimachus, Tacitus and Strabo also alluded to this association between Akhenaten and Moses. In the modern era, Sigmund Freud (an active collector of Egyptian artifacts) also proposed this theory in an influential study of Moses and monotheism, and today there is no small number of web sites that likewise continue this argument.

Akhenaten receiving life from the AtenAkhenaten is frequently referred to as the heretic king because he revolutionized Egyptian religion, at least for a brief period, creating a system that was as close as ancient Egypt would ever come to monotheism with his worship of the Sun Disk called the Aten. Strict monotheism is first demanded of the Israelites in connection with Moses and the Israelite Exodus from Egypt, and therefore, writers throughout the ages have made the association between Akhenaten and Moses.

However, the Old Testament offers no evidence of a relationship between Moses and Akhenaten, and in fact there has never been any direct evidence of Moses discovered in Egypt. It is even questionable whether the Old Testament authors could have even known about him at all. Because of Akhenaten's revolutionary religious ideas, his successors largely eliminated his memory by hammering and hacking his name and the record of his reign from monuments throughout Egypt.

Furthermore, Akhenaten's religion was, at least to some extent, the culmination of a path established by earlier pharaohs, but perhaps even more importantly, it should be noted that, according to the Bible, only after leaving Egypt were the Israelites given the laws of god which required that their Lord be worshipped exclusively. In fact, monotheism plays no real significant role in the Book of Exodus, which is assumed to be the earliest version of Moses' story, and by all accounts, prior to receiving the Ten Commandments, the Israelites worshipped more than one god. Hence, while Akhenaten cannot be completely ruled out as the Pharaoh of Exodus fame, there is not much reason to believe that he was, either.

In fact, the quest for Biblical accounts of ancient Egypt at least into the 19th Dynasty of Egypt's New Kingdom, take on an interesting approach by most investigators. Essentially, since there is no evidence to clearly support the existence of Joseph, or Moses, or the Israeli Exodus, most of the investigation examines what was possible, what cannot be ruled out, or what fits into and Egyptian context. In other words, is it possible that such events or people could have existed from what we know of ancient Egypt. Some specifics are very possible, such as Joseph's rise to importance in the Egyptian court. Other events, such as the Exodus, as specifically told in the Bible, are much more difficult. Though the Egyptians may not have liked to record defeats, it would seem very probable that, were the disasters inflicted upon them as detailed in the Bible, there would have survived some textual evidence. For example, the Egyptians certainly recorded events such as eclipses of the sun and the levels of the Nile Flood. Were the Nile to have turned to blood and every firstborn child suddenly have died, not to mention all of the other plagues mentioned in Exodus, there would have doubtless been some record left, particularly during the New Kingdom. Tomb records frequently provide us with the most meager of details, and we have, from that period, many thousands of documents recording civil actions and even commercial contracts.

Therefore, in order for serious scholars to accept the generality of such events, they must frequently reject some of the details as fiction. Therefore, we begin to ask the question of whether it was possible for Moses to have lived in Egypt. The bible tells us that between his birth in Egypt and death in Moab, Moses played many different roles. He had the privilege to speak with god, to plead on behalf of his community before the Pharaoh and to lead his people. He was a miracle worker, a prophet, a lawmaker and lawgiver, as well as a priest. Many scholars believe that at least some of these functions were only attributed to him in the course of tradition, but the key element here is his link between the Hebrews and Egypt.

Sargon II of Assyria from a relief at Dur-SharrukinOne possibility is to interpret the biblical Exodus from Egypt is to set it against the known historical context of the Kingdom of Israel and the fall of Samaria to the Assyrians in 721 BC. In other words, the Exodus could have been modeled on the people of Samaria who were forcibly deported by their Assyrian conquerors. It could have reflected the circumstances, experiences and hopes of these people. Mostly, they needed a leader such as Moses.

The story of Moses' childhood has many features in common with the Mesopotamian legend of King Sargon, who, as an infant, was said to have been abandoned on the river in a basket. This story would have been fairly contemporary to the biblical authors of the 8th and 7th centuries BC who composed parts of the Old Testament. Hence, they may have adapted the Sargon legend to the Exodus, but this could have also reflected a more ancient memory of a similar event in Egypt. Therefore, while various details told in the Biblical account of Exodus may be fictional, that does not mean that some form of the Exodus did not take place, or that Moses himself did not exist. Certainly people of his race were in Egypt, and some probably served as slaves, as well as masters.

Otherwise, we must remember that people generally tend to build traditions around their historical founders, which in many cases are not planted firmly in reality. Egypt's own founder, Menes (though because of historical records, we may make speculate), is as difficult to identify as Moses, for while later tradition firmly places him at the roots of historical Egypt, contemporary proof is lacking. Consider also that only after several hundred years, historians now doubt that George Washington, one of the principal founding fathers of the United States, ever cut down an apple tree only to show the merits of honesty by confessing the act to his father.

In the final analysis, attributing Moses to a specific person, or even determining which specific Pharaoh was involved may always be a matter of speculation. To the modern reader, the biblical Moses seems to oscillate between tradition and reality, and more secure historical knowledge is probably not possible, at least at present.. And though an Exodus could have taken place, the specific details recorded in the Bible largely fall outside the sphere of probability, given the silence of any Egyptian record.

[Chris Conrad]

You always will have your conspiracy theorist out there. He served his purpose.

yea, to totally bastardize any teachings of jesus...

[DJEddieTwain]

How much? :rofl:

its actually free as long as you force others to install it on their machine
and stop using logic and reason

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

and I don't see why everything has to be proven to be understood.

Because it's kinda hard to comprehend these so-called miracles. But it would be real simple if God would just show himself and say here I am. Believe me now? But we are supposed to go our whole life praying to a ghost. And hoping we followed his commandments good enough so that you can eventually meet him and live forever.

[Sal Paradise]

You may change your mind if you watch the show. The Reed Sea was known for having tsunamis. http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/history/moses_4.shtml

I'm not posting this as some sort of point I just think it looks cool and sort of reminds me of . .

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ekcMmA-iU3E"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ekcMmA-iU3E" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

its actually free as long as you force others to install it on their machine
and stop using logic and reason

You think they won't? :rofl: Wait till everyone finds out Quentin's sounds are in it

[djmarbll]

Jesus brought Truth to all.

Amongst his followers are Jews and Gentiles.

Of the Jews spoken of in the Bible, who did not believe the Truths that Jesus brought , they put Practices and "Religion" before Truth.
Just as much "Religion" (of various kinds, including those claiming "Christianity") , does today.

Read any and all about Jesus in the Bible , and you will see for yourself , that nothing bad can be said about him and the message and he brings.
He only brings Truth.

I can honor what you're saying about Jesus (Yeshua). However, the Bible leaves out 12 years of Jesus' life, and also the fact that Jesus was a part of the Essenes of Q'umran who had a fierce belief in rituals about bathing, cleanliness, marriage, baptism, and eating. Jesus took part in all these rituals and was considered a "kingly" pillar in the ancient two-pillar system of stability. John the Baptist was considered the "priestly" pillar and together with Jesus, they stood as the two pillars of stability (Boaz and Jachim) to create Shalom (peace). Somehow, the Bible "missed" that part of Jesus' life.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

I'm not posting this as some sort of point I just think it looks cool and sort of reminds me of . .

<object height="355" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ekcMmA-iU3E" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425"></object>

Yea those things bug me out. Once they hit land they stop.

[Sal Paradise]

Because it's kinda hard to comprehend these so-called miracles. But it would be real simple if God would just show himself and say here I am. Believe me now? But we are supposed to go our whole life praying to a ghost. And hoping we followed his commandments good enough so that you can eventually meet him and live forever.

Alot of peoples idea of God is not one that is ever personafied. You can call it prayer or you can call it meditation or ..... They are both quite contemplative visualization that seems to be effective. Ten commandents devine or not or a pretty good summation of moral value.

[TAD]

everyone with a bible is an expert.

like you?

[djmarbll]

Majority of what is copy and pasted here above , is written out of context.
Some not exact quotes , but rephrases.

If I wrote a sentence like.
"I walked my Son to the the corner for ice cream , and he crossed the street alone as i watched him".
and one simply chose to quote out of context ,
"he crossed the street alone" , or even rephrased a portion of the sentence , it could be seen to mean something far from what was intended in original sentence.

In order to understand what is copied and pasted above, one needs to read it IN context , directly from the Bible.
There is much that goes with what you would like to refer to.

Reading directly from the Bible doesn't help either since most of the Old Testament is written in Hebrew and translated over 10 times before it became English. A true understanding would be based on reading the original manuscripts in Hebrew.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Alot of peoples idea of God is not one that is ever personafied. You can call it prayer or you can call it meditation or ..... They are both quite contemplative visualization that seems to be effective. Ten commandents devine or not or a pretty good summation of moral value.

Agreed.

[Chris Conrad]

its actually free as long as you force others to install it on their machine
and stop using logic and reason

:lol:

[Mack-Williams]

moses is just as elusive as jesus when it comes to his authenticity. rabbi's are divided on his existence.

In the final analysis, attributing Moses to a specific person, or even determining which specific Pharaoh was involved may always be a matter of speculation. To the modern reader, the biblical Moses seems to oscillate between tradition and reality, and more secure historical knowledge is probably not possible, at least at present.. And though an Exodus could have taken place, the specific details recorded in the Bible largely fall outside the sphere of probability, given the silence of any Egyptian record.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/moses.htm


Like I noted before most civilzations of that time only wrote in their record books of triumphs and rarely wrote anything about their defeats. Why would the Egyptians record anything about them being punked into letting the slaves go by some God they hadnt heard of?

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Reading directly from the Bible doesn't help either since most of the Old Testament is written in Hebrew and translated over 10 times before it became English. A true understanding would be based on reading the original manuscripts in Hebrew.

My father wonders how many stories Shakespeare stole while translating the King James version.

[TAD]

Nope.
link?

[Chris Conrad]

I can honor what you're saying about Jesus (Yeshua). However, the Bible leaves out 12 years of Jesus' life, and also the fact that Jesus was a part of the Essenes of Q'umran who had a fierce belief in rituals about bathing, cleanliness, marriage, baptism, and eating. Jesus took part in all these rituals and was considered a "kingly" pillar in the ancient two-pillar system of stability. John the Baptist was considered the "priestly" pillar and together with Jesus, they stood as the two pillars of stability (Boaz and Jachim) to create Shalom (peace). Somehow, the Bible "missed" that part of Jesus' life.

non bathing came about in the middle ages...great show on the history channel yesterday about satan/hell and how much was inserted into christianity in the middle ages...all kinds of nonsense...

[Mack-Williams]

yea, to totally bastardize any teachings of jesus...

His teachings came from Christ.

[Sal Paradise]

non bathing came about in the middle ages...great show on the history channel yesterday about satan/hell and how much was inserted into christianity in the middle ages...all kinds of nonsense...

you could argue the devil became real when man starting worshiping, thinking the idea of him etc. And there is something to ceramony that is truly mysteriouse, be it for good or bad.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

His teachings came from Christ.


Jah Rastafari?

[djmarbll]

The Apostle Paul, who is the creator of Christianity and the writer of many of the books of the new testament was Greek.

Paul also never knew who Jesus was. Yet Christianity is pretty much based off the beliefs of Paul being stricken with a "vision" on his way to Damascus. Who's to say Paul wasn't high on shrooms or weed? If I'm on the road to Damascus right now and then stricken with a "vision" based on someone I never knew, how come a religion can't be based off of my beliefs, like Christianity is based off of Paul's beliefs?

[djmarbll]

And they're good music programs :acclaim:

:rofl5:

Good point. I wonder what a music program called Faith would do as compared to Reason and Logic, or even Fruity Loops, lol.

[TAD]

Like I noted before most civilzations of that time only wrote in their record books of triumphs and rarely wrote anything about their defeats. Why would the Egyptians record anything about them being punked into letting the slaves go by some God they hadnt heard of?

because it probably never happened.

a plausible explanation to your question from the article i just posted:

Though the Egyptians may not have liked to record defeats, it would seem very probable that, were the disasters inflicted upon them as detailed in the Bible, there would have survived some textual evidence. For example, the Egyptians certainly recorded events such as eclipses of the sun and the levels of the Nile Flood. Were the Nile to have turned to blood and every firstborn child suddenly have died, not to mention all of the other plagues mentioned in Exodus, there would have doubtless been some record left, particularly during the New Kingdom. Tomb records frequently provide us with the most meager of details, and we have, from that period, many thousands of documents recording civil actions and even commercial contracts.

Therefore, in order for serious scholars to accept the generality of such events, they must frequently reject some of the details as fiction.

[djmarbll]

didn't you get the memo? all written word is true.

btw Mack, that written word was written 4 to 500 YEARS BEFORE THE SUPPOSED BIRTH OF MOSES. that's 20 GENERATIONS.

moses was actually practicing reductionism.

MAAT!!!

Check!:respent:

[djmarbll]

How is it relevant then?

Without Ma'at, or other writings of ancient Kemet and Sumeria. Where would Moses have gotten the "law" from? Even Moses studied in Kemet (Egypt). He even killed an Egyptian. Abraham didn't change his name from Abram until he left Kemet. Kemet plays a vital role in the establishment of the 3 main monotheistic religions of the world.

[KBig]

Check!:respent:


just an fyi

Moses was inducted into the Mysteries. He studied Egyptian African Science, Math, Rituals, and was indoctrinated into their secret society.


the 42 Principles of Maat (the Negative Confessions) is a basic fundamental premise of the Mysteries.

This is chronicled in Bible.

[Armento]

5 pages... and I know exactly what's in them without reading...

All hail CHEESE!!!

[djmarbll]

You always will have your conspiracy theorist out there. He served his purpose.

According to Paul, James the Just (Yehoshua's own brother) would be a conspiracy theorist since Paul taught that ANYONE with teachings about Yehoshua that are different from his are not to be believed at all. Yet Paul only even knew about Jesus at all because James taught him. Paul wasn't known as the "Spouter of Lies" for nothing. http://books.google.com/books?id=4N_KdbY6X8cC&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=spouter+of+lies&source=web&ots=ijLcIN6N64&sig=TcS1PfQ17Dcs57SlZrxyP5-Q8vs&hl=en

[djmarbll]

Because we are programmed from a child to believe whatever religious book is in your family, is holy and sacred. It's like you were never given the chance to know any other religions. And it's a form of brainwashing. One of my bosses' brothers married a Non-Jew. He doesn't speak to him anymore. How could God want that?

Exactly.

[Bill Blake]

One certainly doesn’t have to have faith to know that any religion thread on the DHP can’t take place without a proselytizing Christian and arguments abound that mankind’s entire mythical cannon can be traced back to the Pan-African motherland.

[djmarbll]

yes an no. I say no because I balieve real knowledge still exist in the text. I say yes because clearly as a seeker of wisdom you benefit greatly from studying a source. I have never thought of it as a literal telling. It comes from an oral tradition and the truths are not in all the specifics necessarily and I don't see why everything has to be proven to be understood. Metaphor, analogy, hyperbole etc all existed back in the day to.

That's my point. The Bible is predated by other texts that talk about folklore that's heavily influenced by the stars in the sky. However, many Christians use those same allegories and oral traditions and try to apply it as fundamental history, which it never has been.

[Bill Blake]

My father wonders how many stories Shakespeare stole while translating the King James version.

Ha ha ha ha ha, none so it seems but boy he sure did like old Italian stories.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Ha ha ha ha ha, none so it seems but boy he sure did like old Italian stories.

:rofl5:

[Sal Paradise]

That's my point. The Bible is predated by other texts that talk about folklore that's heavily influenced by the stars in the sky. However, many Christians use those same allegories and oral traditions and try to apply it as fundamental history, which it never has been.

I agree, but I find the other side as madding. And I balieve in something more than I balieve in nothing. Even though I balieve that something exists in nothing.

:rofl5:

[djmarbll]

My father wonders how many stories Shakespeare stole while translating the King James version.

I've wondered the same thing. I do know that Shakespeare put his name in a scripture in Psalms.

[D J 1 3 8]

QUESTION for ALL in this thread:

if God's existence could be proven or dis-proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, would you live your life any differently?

[djmarbll]

non bathing came about in the middle ages...great show on the history channel yesterday about satan/hell and how much was inserted into christianity in the middle ages...all kinds of nonsense...

I totally agree. There's a book called "Dirt: The History of European Hygiene" that shows hygiene habits during the Middle Ages for Europe. The Essenes, on the other hand, were very strict when it came to bathing in the fact that they had to do it often, lol.

[Armento]

QUESTION for ALL in this thread:

if God's existence could be proven or dis-proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, would you live your life any differently?
he'd have to communicate to me directly his policy regarding heaven entry.. DIRECTLY... then I would

[E-Phi]

According to Paul, James the Just (Yehoshua's own brother) would be a conspiracy theorist since Paul taught that ANYONE with teachings about Yehoshua that are different from his are not to be believed at all. Yet Paul only even knew about Jesus at all because James taught him. Paul wasn't known as the "Spouter of Lies" for nothing. http://books.google.com/books?id=4N_KdbY6X8cC&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=spouter+of+lies&source=web&ots=ijLcIN6N64&sig=TcS1PfQ17Dcs57SlZrxyP5-Q8vs&hl=en
Q-G7!

[djmarbll]

you could argue the devil became real when man starting worshiping, thinking the idea of him etc. And there is something to ceramony that is truly mysteriouse, be it for good or bad.

I've studied that Satan comes from Set, Asar's evil brother. That's from ancient Kemetic folklore from over 5000 years ago. But going back even further, it seems man's first enemy was darkness. Imagine its 9 p.m. 6000 years ago, and all you can see are what up in the sky. Once you look at it from a historical context, its easy to see why the 12 signs of the Zodiac is considered one of the oldest religious texts known to man.

[D J 1 3 8]

he'd have to communicate to me directly his policy regarding heaven entry.. DIRECTLY... then I would

would what?
how?

[Mack-Williams]

Without Ma'at, or other writings of ancient Kemet and Sumeria. Where would Moses have gotten the "law" from? Even Moses studied in Kemet (Egypt). He even killed an Egyptian. Abraham didn't change his name from Abram until he left Kemet. Kemet plays a vital role in the establishment of the 3 main monotheistic religions of the world.

With that I can say the Hebrews were not the only ones who believe in One God. God choosed Abraham and his decendents as nation he was going to use to bare his name.

[DJEddieTwain]

QUESTION for ALL in this thread:

if God's existence could be proven or dis-proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, would you live your life any differently?


it depends which god you speak of

i'd have to adjust my diet to the whole swine and sacred cow deal
and i guess i'd start some kind of regular formal prayer schedule
and maybe stop posting on threads like this one

[TAD]

just an fyi

Moses was inducted into the Mysteries. He studied Egyptian African Science, Math, Rituals, and was indoctrinated into their secret society.


the 42 Principles of Maat (the Negative Confessions) is a basic fundamental premise of the Mysteries.

This is chronicled in Bible.

when i was 10 i received a copy of the revised standard version of the bible for best sunday school attendance. at the back was a dictionary. in it was written moses was "learned in all the wisdom of the egyptians". that dictionary gave me a lot of insight into the historical aspects of the bible and the land of egypt.

eg: ham: "a poetic synonym for egypt, used several times in the psalms."

we all know ham was noah's admonished son, as well it represented the lands of cush (ethiopia), mizraim) (egypt), essentially a synonym for black people since it was mostly blacks who resided in these lands. moses' wife was a cushite . (can the cushite change his skin? Jeremiah 13:23) the cues of egypt's blackness are replete in the bible yet how many people today will answer the question correctly?

this is stuff i learned partly through the use of my revised standard version white christian bible. hehehe.

[djmarbll]

just an fyi

Moses was inducted into the Mysteries. He studied Egyptian African Science, Math, Rituals, and was indoctrinated into their secret society.


the 42 Principles of Maat (the Negative Confessions) is a basic fundamental premise of the Mysteries.

This is chronicled in Bible.

Word.
George G.M. James book "Stolen Legacy" discussed this as well.:thumbsup:

[Bill Blake]

I've wondered the same thing. I do know that Shakespeare put his name in a scripture in Psalms.

Marbs, there's no proof or evidence that Shakespeare ever touched the King James translation. That he did, is mere speculation, and the hidden name you’re referring to is a coincidence that doesn’t even fit.

[TAD]

arguments abound that mankind’s entire mythical cannon can be traced back to the Pan-African motherland.

he he i might be guilty of this. but ivan van sertima does have some very convincing arguments.

[KBig]

QUESTION for ALL in this thread:

if God's existence could be proven or dis-proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, would you live your life any differently?


nope.

[Armento]

would what?
how?
if he told me that i can't do some of the shit i do now or i'll go to hell i'd have to stop.

[djmarbll]

QUESTION for ALL in this thread:

if God's existence could be proven or dis-proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, would you live your life any differently?

I don't think we'd have a choice. I don't disbelieve that God exists, I just don't ascribe to the way religion has monopolized the concept of God.

[MYOR]

QUESTION for ALL in this thread:

if God's existence could be proven or dis-proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, would you live your life any differently?


Well I guess that would mean there is a heaven and hell... hmmm http://deephousepage.com/smilies/daz.gif

[Mack-Williams]

According to Paul, James the Just (Yehoshua's own brother) would be a conspiracy theorist since Paul taught that ANYONE with teachings about Yehoshua that are different from his are not to be believed at all. Yet Paul only even knew about Jesus at all because James taught him. Paul wasn't known as the "Spouter of Lies" for nothing. http://books.google.com/books?id=4N_KdbY6X8cC&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=spouter+of+lies&source=web&ots=ijLcIN6N64&sig=TcS1PfQ17Dcs57SlZrxyP5-Q8vs&hl=en

I just know Paul was part of the Governing Body in the book of Acts. The other apostles excepted him. The book of Acts points out that they all would be one in spirit once, Holy Spirit was poured out on them in 33 ce. Once Paul was baptized he too gain the insight from the Holy Spirit. Only argument that is mentioned among them was circumcision for the Gentile who joined them.

[D J 1 3 8]

I don't think we'd have a choice.

not sure what you mean.
we can always make choices.

[djmarbll]

With that I can say the Hebrews were not the only ones who believe in One God. God choosed Abraham and his decendents as nation he was going to use to bare his name.

Akhenaton was known as the one who united Upper and Lower Egypt with the monotheistic concept of one God, which does predate the Hebrews (also known as Hyksos). The danger I see with the Hebrews is that their concept of one God became just as much a political statement as it was a religion. IS-RA-EL is an example.

[Mack-Williams]

Akhenaton was known as the one who united Upper and Lower Egypt with the monotheistic concept of one God, which does predate the Hebrews (also known as Hyksos). The danger I see with the Hebrews is that their concept of one God became just as much a political statement as it was a religion. IS-RA-EL is an example.

Not denoucing that others didn't believe in One God. All came from Noah and his decendents. Noah believed in one God. He wasn't Hebrew either. That's if you believed the Flood happened.

[Chris Conrad]

Not denoucing that others didn't believe in One God. All came from Noah and his decendents. Noah believed in one God. He wasn't Hebrew either. That's if you believed the Flood happened.

you mean the same flood story that many cultures and belief systems have?

[Mack-Williams]

you mean the same flood story that many cultures and belief systems have?

Same one. One thing though, the Hebrews could trace their ancestery all the way back to Noah.

[djmarbll]

Marbs, there's no proof or evidence that Shakespeare ever touched the King James translation. That he did, is mere speculation, and the hidden name you’re referring to is a coincidence that doesn’t even fit.

I know. All we know is that Shakespeare lived during the time the KJV was written, which was 1611. Shakespeare was actually writing the "Tempest" at that time and died in 1616. Most likely Shakespeare had nothing to do with KJV's version of the Bible since he was busy doing other things.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

I've studied that Satan comes from Set, Asar's evil brother. That's from ancient Kemetic folklore from over 5000 years ago. But going back even further, it seems man's first enemy was darkness. Imagine its 9 p.m. 6000 years ago, and all you can see are what up in the sky. Once you look at it from a historical context, its easy to see why the 12 signs of the Zodiac is considered one of the oldest religious texts known to man.

I had a convo with someone about the fact that darkness was looked upon as evil. There were no lights. So seeing the rising sun had to be a glorious thing.

[KBig]

Not denoucing that others didn't believe in One God. All came from Noah and his decendents. Noah believed in one God. He wasn't Hebrew either. That's if you believed the Flood happened.


so you are telling me Mack that you believe all humankind derived from Noah? you are saying there was no human existence before Noah?


Please tell me you dont believe the world is only 5000 yrs old.

[TAD]

QUESTION for ALL in this thread:

if God's existence could be proven or dis-proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, would you live your life any differently?

i am god. what more proof do i need. and since i am god i could do whatever the fuck i want. as long as i don't fuck with anybody, because, since i am god i know the type of wrath i can inflict upon myself if i am a bad god. so i try to be a good god so i don't punish myself too often. of course even god can make mistakes, so from time to time, i create bad situations for myself so that i don't forget i'm god.

does this answer your fucking question because right now i am an angry god. and this day will the lord (that's me) deliver thee into mine hand, and i will smite thee if thou continuest to asketh these doubtful questions of my existence. oops my bad, i'm schizophrenic. sowwy. fuck you!!!! http://innovexpo.itee.uq.edu.au/2002/projects/s358844/image1.jpg

[djmarbll]

not sure what you mean.
we can always make choices.

I mean that if God's existence was proven to the world, where would free will stand? If God's existence was totally disproven to the world, where would spirituality stand? My point is the existence or lack thereof is what gives us the option to decide one or the other. Without that option, the choice is gone.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

http://innovexpo.itee.uq.edu.au/2002/projects/s358844/image1.jpg

HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT

[Sal Paradise]

HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT

:rofl:

[Mack-Williams]

so you are telling me Mack that you believe all humankind derived from Noah? you are saying there was no human existence before Noah?


Please tell me you dont believe the world is only 5000 yrs old.

I believe there were people living before the flood, but Noah survived it.

[djmarbll]

Not denoucing that others didn't believe in One God. All came from Noah and his decendents. Noah believed in one God. He wasn't Hebrew either. That's if you believed the Flood happened.

This is where we agree and where science and religion get intertwined. I don't believe all came from Noah because it begs the question, where did Noah come from? Biologically speaking, Noah, and especially Adam and Eve would have had to have melanin since the absence of melanin cannot create it. But the reverse is true (Albinos are an example). But I do believe the Flood happened. In fact, the Flood itself is something that happened more than once in the Nile.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

I believe there were people living before the flood, but Noah survived it.

All I know is if he could take that smell for 40 days and nights he deserved to survive. :rofl5:

[djmarbll]

I had a convo with someone about the fact that darkness was looked upon as evil. There were no lights. So seeing the rising sun had to be a glorious thing.

Yep the sun was "born again" on a daily basis. Oops, I'm sorry. I forgot "born again" is something only Christianity created since the earth is only 6000 years old, lol.

[Suspended]

All I know is if he could take that smell for 40 days and nights he deserved to survive. :rofl5:

:rofl:

[TAD]

HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT


:lol:

[Mack-Williams]

This is where we agree and where science and religion get intertwined. I don't believe all came from Noah because it begs the question, where did Noah come from? Biologically speaking, Noah, and especially Adam and Eve would have had to have melanin since the absence of melanin cannot create it. But the reverse is true (Albinos are an example). But I do believe the Flood happened. In fact, the Flood itself is something that happened more than once in the Nile.

This is where alot of answers are untold. The bible says Adam and Eve had children and that's it. Genesis also says that after the flood all centered in one area. Then God changed the languages of all the people and they began to settle amongst those who understood each other and they went their separate ways.

[KBig]

I believe there were people living before the flood, but Noah survived it.



thats not what you just wrote ... I want to understand what you meant when you said ALL people come from Noah. Thats just simply not true.

Yes the flood occured... and wiped out a great deal of human life *in that area* but all life was not wiped out and populated by a single man.

[SuzanneT]

Same one. One thing though, the Hebrews could trace their ancestery all the way back to Noah.
:conf06: I thought the Hebrews could trace their ancestry back to Jacob- the father of the 12 tribes of Israel?

[Chris Conrad]

I mean that if God's existence was proven to the world, where would free will stand? If God's existence was totally disproven to the world, where would spirituality stand? My point is the existence or lack thereof is what gives us the option to decide one or the other. Without that option, the choice is gone.

spirituality has nothing to do with 'god'...

[Sal Paradise]

spirituality has nothing to do with 'god'...

or everything to do with . . . . . .

[Mack-Williams]

:conf06: I thought the Hebrews could trace their ancestry back to Jacob- the father of the 12 tribes of Israel?


In Genesis it goes from Noah to Seth. Then Abraham was a decendant of Seth.

[dj c-los]

like you?

nope. if you read my full response i said if i dont know i would say "i dont know." don't just pick and read what you like. this is why we have 103470197840918240391280983 interpretations.

[Chris Conrad]

or everything to do with . . . . . .

the question about proof of god's existence implied a belief in one god and implied a belief in one of the three main religions: christianity/islam/judaism...being spiritual does not automatically equate one with believing in a 'god'...why do people insist on that?

[Sal Paradise]

the question about proof of god's existence implied a belief in one god and implied a beliefe in one of the three main religions: christianity/islam/judaism...being spiritual does not automatically equate one with believing in a 'god'...why do people insist on that?

I agree

[Chris Conrad]

I agree

certainly for those that believe in a god their spirituality depends on that...disprove god's existence and you burst their spiritual bubble...for others, if the existence of god was shown to be false, it might make their own spiritual search more important by verifying their path...because like i said, not all spiritual paths depend on the belief in a god...on the other hand proving that god exists would also wipe out scores of alternative beliefs and explanations...

[Nige55]

[QUOTE=rob_s;667532]Read this in The Sun yesterday also.

I didn't need to read through the 10 or how-ever-many-pages of this thread, THIS did it for me !! :rofl5::rofl5::lol:

[hairyarmbutcher]

There are certain things our limited minds can not comprehend.


I think that maybe true, but its no reason to just put your self in some kind of hope that everythings going to be OK when you/I/everyone here dies. When I look at the stars at night and see how small and not important we are, how could anything so vast really care about us.

I dont know why or how we are here & I dont think you do ither - we might not be alone though¬

The Drake Equation
This formula estimates the number of intelligent civilizations in our galaxy.
N=(R*)(Ns)(Fp)(Ne)(Fl)(Fi)(Fc)(L)

Where:
N = Number of civilizations we can communicate with
R* = Average star formation rate
Ns = Percentage of stars capable of supporting earth-like planets
Fp = Percentage of those stars with planets
Ne = Average umber of planets in those stars' habitable zones
Fl = Percentage of those planets where life begins
Fi = Percentage of planets with life where an intelligent species evolves
Fc = Percentage of those intelligent species that develop communication technology
L = Average lifetime, in years, of a civilization that develops such technology


then again, we might be, I dont know.



As far as magic shrooms making us think - hahahaha, classic.

[JJ11]

I think that maybe true, but its no reason to just put your self in some kind of hope that everythings going to be OK when you/I/everyone here dies. When I look at the stars at night and see how small and not important we are, how could anything so vast really care about us.

I dont know why or how we are here & I dont think you do ither - we might not be alone though¬

The Drake Equation
This formula estimates the number of intelligent civilizations in our galaxy.
N=(R*)(Ns)(Fp)(Ne)(Fl)(Fi)(Fc)(L)

Where:
N = Number of civilizations we can communicate with
R* = Average star formation rate
Ns = Percentage of stars capable of supporting earth-like planets
Fp = Percentage of those stars with planets
Ne = Average umber of planets in those stars' habitable zones
Fl = Percentage of those planets where life begins
Fi = Percentage of planets with life where an intelligent species evolves
Fc = Percentage of those intelligent species that develop communication technology
L = Average lifetime, in years, of a civilization that develops such technology


then again, we might be, I dont know.



As far as magic shrooms making us think - hahahaha, classic.


Everything will not be ok , if I , He , You , She , We do not follow God's Word and Instruction.
Treat Others as you want to be treated , and Love thy God with all Your Heart and Soul , will do much for I , He , You , She , We.

[Martin Red]

Anything regarding religion and supernatural events doesn't make history books.



This is the problem with religion, it changes the rules and applies a funny sense of logic to make the world fit religion, rather than the right way around.

What about the natural events are looked on a supernatural or religious events in the bible.

They didn't understand geology back then, they didn't understand earthquakes, volcanos, lightning, tornados, they didn't have all the answer in biology or physics....either

Some of the stories in the bible appear through lack of scientific explaination at the time.


We've moved on.

[Martin Red]

Ten commandents devine or not or a pretty good summation of moral value.

Your right, I bet the murder rate was higher before god spoke the law.

Do you think people may not have taken as much notice if they had of been the word of man, which of course , they are.

"The word of god" has alot more weight behind it.

The Official word of God (TM)

[Martin Red]

knowing the Bible is like school-like. you'll know who is in first grade and you'll know who knows their stuff.

to each his own. im more about having itelligent conversations. i dont beat no one over the head with anything.


Just like Islam......., people make the bible fit their life rather than actualy trying to make real sense out of it. One day it's "Forgive" next day it's "eye for an eye", it's a book of contradictions, that's while people love it so much, the bible is a game.




you'll know who knows their stuff.

"Theirs" it was and never will be "theirs" it's someone elses word your living by, dead mens words.



knowing the Bible is like school-like

Measuring intelligence by what people can recite from a book, is like measuring digestion by turd length

[Martin Red]

In Genesis it goes from Noah to Seth. Then Abraham was a decendant of Seth.

http://opengardensblog.futuretext.com/archives/sith.JPG

[Martin Red]

http://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/03/05/moses460.jpg

Seeing the man above, reminded me

How many of the people who own a bible also own a gun ?

Now that really is a lack of faith.

[Martin Red]

On Sunday, October 30, 1938, millions of radio listeners were shocked when radio news alerts announced the arrival of Martians. They panicked when they learned of the Martians' ferocious and seemingly unstoppable attack on Earth. Many ran out of their homes screaming while others packed up their cars and fled.

Though what the radio listeners heard was a portion of Orson Welles' adaptation of the well-known book, War of the Worlds by H. G. Wells, many of the listeners believed what they heard on the radio was real.

http://internetservices.readingeagle.com/editor/archives/mars-attacks.jpg

[Martin Red]

http://home.uchicago.edu/~taghatta/images/lemmings.gif

http://www.wagnerblog.com/images/Lemmings_20_28Fortean_20Times_29_small.jpg

[Nige55]

Measuring intelligence by what people can recite from a book, is like measuring digestion by turd length[/QUOTE]

From wikipedia -

"Intelligence is an umbrella term used to describe a property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn. There are several ways to define intelligence. In some cases, intelligence may include traits such as creativity, personality, character, knowledge, or wisdom. However, some psychologists prefer not to include these traits in the definition of intelligence."

"Abstraction is the process or result of generalization by reducing the information content of a concept or an observable phenomenon, typically in order to retain only information which is relevant for a particular purpose. Abstraction is the process of hiding the details and exposing only the essential features of a particular concept or object. For example, abstracting a leather soccer ball to a ball retains only the information on general ball attributes and behaviour. Similarly, abstracting an emotional state to happiness reduces the amount of information conveyed about the emotional state. Computer scientists use abstraction to understand and solve problems and communicate their solutions with the computer in some particular computer language"

I'd conclude from this that if abstract thinking supports intelligence, those who are 'intelligent' may also be 'hiding the details' of a particular concept. This is besides the point as those with faith do not abide by this to gain greater 'intelligence'. JMO. :)

[Nige55]

On Sunday, October 30, 1938, millions of radio listeners were shocked when radio news alerts announced the arrival of Martians. They panicked when they learned of the Martians' ferocious and seemingly unstoppable attack on Earth. Many ran out of their homes screaming while others packed up their cars and fled.

Though what the radio listeners heard was a portion of Orson Welles' adaptation of the well-known book, War of the Worlds by H. G. Wells, many of the listeners believed what they heard on the radio was real.

http://internetservices.readingeagle.com/editor/archives/mars-attacks.jpg


ha ha, yeah, I remember hearing / reading that too a long time ago. Allthough, unless it was only believers or 'religious' folks that ran out, you've just implicated a wide range (of these millions of people) as lemmings. Believers and non-believers. Guess we ain't the only ones then ! :tongueout:

[Martin Red]

ha ha, yeah, I remember hearing / reading that too a long time ago. Allthough, unless it was only believers or 'religious' folks that ran out, you've just implicated a wide range (of these millions of people) as lemmings. Believers and non-believers. Guess we ain't the only ones then ! :tongueout:

Well, I was just pointing out that people are just as sheep like, now as then, whether it comes from a radio or a book, they do what they are told and run with the pack. Herd mentality.

[Martin Red]

http://goodluckwithallthat.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/funny-jesus.jpg

[Martin Red]

Here is my problem with the ten commandments- why exactly are there 10?

You simply do not need ten. The list of ten commandments was artificially and deliberately inflated to get it up to ten. Here's what happened:

About 5,000 years ago a bunch of religious and political hustlers got together to try to figure out how to control people and keep them in line. They knew people were basically stupid and would believe anything they were told, so they announced that God had given them some commandments, up on a mountain, when no one was around.

Well let me ask you this- when they were making this shit up, why did they pick 10? Why not 9 or 11? I'll tell you why- because 10 sound official. Ten sounds important! Ten is the basis for the decimal system, it's a decade, it's a psychologically satisfying number (the top ten, the ten most wanted, the ten best dressed). So having ten commandments was really a marketing decision! It is clearly a bullshit list. It's a political document artificially inflated to sell better. I will now show you how you can reduce the number of commandments and come up with a list that's a little more workable and logical. I am going to use the Roman Catholic version because those were the ones I was taught as a little boy.

Let's start with the first three:

I AM THE LORD THY GOD THOU SHALT NOT HAVE STRANGE GODS BEFORE ME

THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN

THOU SHALT KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH

Right off the bat the first three are pure bullshit. Sabbath day? Lord's name? strange gods? Spooky language! Designed to scare and control primitive people. In no way does superstitious nonsense like this apply to the lives of intelligent civilized humans in the 21st century. So now we're down to 7. Next:

HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER

Obedience, respect for authority. Just another name for controlling people. The truth is that obedience and respect shouldn't be automatic. They should be earned and based on the parent's performance. Some parents deserve respect, but most of them don't, period. You're down to six.

Now in the interest of logic, something religion is very uncomfortable with, we're going to jump around the list a little bit.

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL

THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS

Stealing and lying. Well actually, these two both prohibit the same kind of behavior- dishonesty. So you don't really need two you combine them and call the commandment "thou shalt not be dishonest". And suddenly you're down to 5.

And as long as we're combining I have two others that belong together:

THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTRY

THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE

Once again, these two prohibit the same type of behavior. In this case it is marital infidelity. The difference is- coveting takes place in the mind. But I don't think you should outlaw fantasizing about someone else's wife because what is a guy gonna think about when he's waxing his carrot? But, marital infidelity is a good idea so we're gonna keep this one and call it "thou shalt not be unfaithful". And suddenly we're down to four.

But when you think about it, honesty and infidelity are really part of the same overall value so, in truth, you could combine the two honesty commandments with the two fidelity commandments and give them simpler language, positive language instead of negative language and call the whole thing "thou shalt always be honest and faithful" and we're down to 3.

THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR"S GOODS

This one is just plain fuckin' stupid. Coveting your neighbor's goods is what keeps the economy going! Your neighbor gets a vibrator that plays "o come o ye faithful", and you want one too! Coveting creates jobs, so leave it alone. You throw out coveting and you're down to 2 now- the big honesty and fidelity commandment and the one we haven't talked about yet:

THOU SHALT NOT KILL

Murder. But when you think about it, religion has never really had a big problem with murder. More people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. All you have to do is look at Northern Ireland, Cashmire, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the World Trade Center to see how seriously the religious folks take thou shalt not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable. It depends on who's doin the killin' and who's gettin' killed. So, with all of this in mind, I give you my revised list of the two commandments:

Thou shalt always be honest and faithful to the provider of thy nookie.

&

Thou shalt try real hard not to kill anyone, unless of course they pray to a different invisible man than you.

Two is all you need; Moses could have carried them down the hill in his fuckin' pocket. I wouldn't mind those folks in Alabama posting them on the courthouse wall, as long as they provided one additional commandment:

Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

[Martin Red]

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[Martin Red]

http://www.yetiarts.com/aaron/comics/images/moses.gif

[Martin Red]

http://www.grinningplanet.com/2005/03-15/religious-best-seller-copyright4.gif

[Martin Red]

http://crosebrough.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/20/moses.jpg

[Martin Red]

http://services.tucows.com/developers/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/moses-commandments.jpg