Anybody See 10,000 B.C.?

[Mack-Williams]

Was it any good?

[david_mancuso]

I think RottenTomatoes gave it like 8%....

However, I would continue to l@@k for other reviews to be sure.

['Magic' Juan]

Did not see it, but have heard and read nothing but negative reviews.

-M J

[Mack-Williams]

That's why I was trying to get the real reviews from yall. All I heard was bad reveiws.

[mhd]

people actually use reviews to decide whether or not to see a movie?

[jah]

fucking sucked :/

['Magic' Juan]

people actually use reviews to decide whether or not to see a movie?

I absolutely do. I prefer to base my judgement moreso on folks I know who may have gone out to see the movie, but with the high prices of tickets and such I would rather have a "heads up" on a stinker.

-M J

[Mack-Williams]

people actually use reviews to decide whether or not to see a movie?

I don't. I rather here opinions from the non-critics.

[mhd]

I absolutely do. I prefer to base my judgement moreso on folks I know who may have gone out to see the movie, but with the high prices of tickets and such I would rather have a "heads up" on a stinker.

-M J

good point about prices, i guess i base mine on previews/trailers and on the subject matter

[Bill Blake]

Critics:

On another note, No Country for Old Men, just saw it for first time last night, and not reading the novel to see how McCarthy dealt with it but there were some 'so obvious' plot devices...I can’t understand it’s critical praise?

1. How believable is it that the protagonist would have drove back out, all the way to the crime scene, late at night to give water to a man that would have already likely been dead?
2. The coincidence that the mail, that day, when the villain enters his trailer, would be the phone bill with numbers called that much, aiding his ability to find the protagonist?
3. That the villain would, out of all the areas and hotels in Texas, come across the one with the money?

The same old problem of plot constricting characters and even reality, old hat, and common but come on?

[D J 1 3 8]

Critics:

On another note, just saw it for first time last night, and not reading the novel to see how McCarthy dealt with these issues but there were some so obvious plot devices in No Country for Old Men, I can’t understand it’s critical praise?

1. How believable is it that the protagonist would have drove back out, all the way to the crime scene, late as dark at night to give water to a man that would have already likely been dead?
2. The coincidence that the mail, that day, when the villain enters his trailer, would be the phone bill with numbers called that much, aiding his ability to find the protagonist?
3. That the villain would, out of all the areas and hotels in Texas, come across the one with the money?

The same old problem of plot constricting characters and even reality, old hat, and common but come on?

what moron wrote that?
makey no sense.

[mhd]

Critics:

On another note, just saw it for first time last night, and not reading the novel to see how McCarthy dealt with these issues but there were some so obvious plot devices in No Country for Old Men, I can’t understand it’s critical praise?

1. How believable is it that the protagonist would have drove back out, all the way to the crime scene, late as dark at night to give water to a man that would have already likely been dead?
2. The coincidence that the mail, that day, when the villain enters his trailer, would be the phone bill with numbers called that much, aiding his ability to find the protagonist?
3. That the villain would, out of all the areas and hotels in Texas, come across the one with the money?

The same old problem of plot constricting characters and even reality, old hat, and common but come on?

3. tracking device
2. he is a stalker, all details matter, how many stalkers look at victims mail, how many open it, and then analyze calling patterns, bardem was relentless in his pursuit, he would have made the connection eventually, slowly running down all leads
1. ethics, vietnam vet, leave no one behind, promises made, promises kept, character development

[Martin Red]

good point about prices, i guess i base mine on previews/trailers and on the subject matter


trailers are usually right on the money, not biased in any way at all by the marketing aspect.

[Martin Red]

This film "10,000 BC" I'm sure I can wait another 10 months or even 10 years to see it.

I aint paying cinema prices to see it

what's the rush

['Magic' Juan]

trailers are usually right on the money, not biased in any way at all by the marketing aspect.

I've definitely been mislead by trailers in the past. The one that completely pissed me off was the one for "Unbreakable."


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I was so upset when it turned out to be about a f*cking comic book character. Damn you Shyalaman!!

-M J

[Bill Blake]

3. tracking device
2. he is a stalker, all details matter, how many stalkers look at victims mail, how many open it, and then analyze calling patterns, bardem was relentless in his pursuit, he would have made the connection eventually, slowly running down all leads
1. ethics, vietnam vet, leave no one behind, promises made, promises kept, character development

Oops sorry for all the typos.

Details matter but the odds of you comming on the day the phone bill hits the door (right in front) are about 1 in 30.

The movie seemed to indicate that the range of the tracking device was very limmited as it didn't even begin to beep until he was only a hundred yards or so from the hotel, money?

If your concern was leaving no man behind his safety would have trumped the money in the first place. And, I can't see myself nor you going back to an isolated desert area alone at night where a bunch of dead bodies were...sorry.

Seems to be some OVERT cliche' plot devices were used, which, for critical purposes should not be ignored, as in...it's a trite movie.

[Mack-Williams]

Oops sorry for all the typos.

Details matter but the odds of you comming on the day the phone bill hits the door (right in front) are about 1 in 30.

The movie seemed to indicate that the range of the tracking device was very limmited as it didn't even begin to beep until he was only a hundred yards or so from the hotel, money?

If your concern was leaving no man behind his safety would have trumped the money in the first place. And, I can't see myself nor you going back to an isolated desert area alone at night where a bunch of dead bodies were...sorry.

Seems to be some OVERT cliche' plot devices were used, which, for critical purposes should not be ignored, as in...it's a trite movie.

I'm with you on that Bill. I was wonder why he didn't go thru the money to count it. I would have.

[Bill Blake]

I'm with you on that Bill. I was wonder why he didn't go thru the money to count it. I would have.

But wait...did phone bills in the 1970s list the individual calls you made each month? Keeping in mind the novel was written in the 90s when they did...

Oh and if you remember he DID seem to know how much was there because he mentioned the amount to his wife when he got back to the trailer? And if he did, wouldn't he have came acorss that big-ass bulky tracking device?

[D J 1 3 8]

I'm with you on that Bill. I was wonder why he didn't go thru the money to count it. I would have.

no time. had to get the fuck out of dodge.

motels in those towns are, more often than not, directly on the main road. So all he needed was the right direction.

As mhd said, going back to give the guy water was establishing his character. Dude was clearly not scared of shit.

[D J 1 3 8]

But wait...did phone bills in the 1970s list the individual calls you made each month? Keeping in mind the novel was written in the 90s when they did...

Oh and if you remember he DID seem to know how much was there because he mentioned the amount to his wife when he got back to the trailer? And if he did, wouldn't he have came acorss that big-ass bulky tracking device?

took place in the 80s

[Bill Blake]

no time. had to get the fuck out of dodge.

motels in those towns are, more often than not, directly on the main road. So all he needed was the right direction.

As mhd said, going back to give the guy water was establishing his character. Dude was clearly not scared of shit.

You're missing the point. You're rationalizing what an author NEEDED to do to make the plot work, which is a very old problem with the novel.

You don't 'establish' characters when they behave like that, you are actually constricting your character by making him have to conform to the plot, that the bad guys would stumble on to him, so they could ensue the cat mouse game.

[mhd]

nah, you missing the point, which was bardem would find him some way some how, remember he stopped by the land lady's office at the trailer park... which turned out to be a dead end, the movie did not show all dead ends but a sample

[D J 1 3 8]

You're missing the point. You're rationalizing what an author NEEDED to do to make the plot work, which is a very old problem with the novel.

You don't 'establish' characters when they behave like that, you are actually constricting your character by making him have to conform to the plot, that the bad guys would stumble on to him, so they could ensue the cat mouse game.

it's called movie making, son
don't know what else to say, really

[Bill Blake]

nah, you missing the point, which was bardem would find him some way some how, remember he stopped by the land lady's office at the trailer park... which turned out to be a dead end, the movie did not show all dead ends but a sample

The idea that the story deals with 'fate' and 'destiny' is not to be confused with the trivial plot devices the author obviously used to make the story work, which is fine, but don't call it a great movie-novel if you can't evade faults that have been known about novels for over a hundred years of aesthetic.

Entertaining? Sure. A 'good' story that people want to see read? Sure? But great 'work'? Nope.

[mhd]

Oops sorry for all the typos.

Details matter but the odds of you comming on the day the phone bill hits the door (right in front) are about 1 in 30.

The movie seemed to indicate that the range of the tracking device was very limmited as it didn't even begin to beep until he was only a hundred yards or so from the hotel, money?

If your concern was leaving no man behind his safety would have trumped the money in the first place. And, I can't see myself nor you going back to an isolated desert area alone at night where a bunch of dead bodies were...sorry.

Seems to be some OVERT cliche' plot devices were used, which, for critical purposes should not be ignored, as in...it's a trite movie.

cat was a badass texan nam vet, no fear, at all, shit, if he was a pussy he never would have approached the scene in the first place, character development was key here, since he was up against an other-worldly adversary in bardem with tommie lee as the referee whose character had to finally admit he was not up to snuff compared to brolin and bardem with woody on the sidelines as another barometer of courage or lacking thereof

[Bill Blake]

it's called movie making, son
don't know what else to say, really

Yea I know. It's just funny to see all the praise shoved up the asses of men like they're the best thing since bread in cinema-literature, when they're sloppy like that...

[mhd]

lets just stipulate that bardem drove past every hotel/motel/holiday inn waiting for a beep...

[Bill Blake]

cat was a badass texan nam vet, no fear, at all, shit, if he was a pussy he never would have approached the scene in the first place, character development was key here, since he was up against an other-worldly adversary in bardem with tommie lee as the referee whose character had to finally admit he was not up to snuff compared to brolin and bardem with woody on the sidelines as another barometer of courage or lacking thereof

When are trying to tell a story where a guy finds money, but has to be discovered by the villians so they can chase him (main suspense story role of the plot), you're not developing his character, again, you're constricting it to the plot, and in a manner that just doesn't usually fit the mold of human nature, bad-ass or not.

[D J 1 3 8]

Entertaining? Sure. A 'good' story that people want to see read? Sure? But great 'work'? Nope.

good vs. great
you are speaking about things that are subjective as if you can establish them using some dusty grad school literary criteria
movies are a different experience IMO and hopefully not boxed in by these so-called rules

[Bill Blake]

lets just stipulate that bardem drove past every hotel/motel/holiday inn waiting for a beep...

It's the very nature of plot device to force you to make such stipulations and why it's considered an aspect of bad writting.

[mhd]

It's the very nature of plot device to force you to make such stipulations and why it's considered an aspect of bad writting.

how can it be bad writing if the above was never written

[Bill Blake]

good vs. great
you are speaking about things that are subjective as if you can establish them using some dusty grad school literary criteria
movies are a different experience IMO and hopefully not boxed in by these so-called rules

No, it's not a matter of objectivity, it's a matter of function. And those weaknesses are not an aspect of the movie, if they took place in the novel. And movies follow the story patterns laid about the genre of novel anyways. All movies usually are, are cinematic novels.

Unless the novel uses overt plot device in a saterical way, they're usually considered poorly written. And even then, other considerations.

[Bill Blake]

how can it be bad writing if the above was never written

Dude, howa bout starting here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_device

"Other plot devices are simply one-offs to get the protagonist to the next scene of the story. The enemy spy, who suddenly appears, defects, reveals the location of the secret headquarters and is never heard of again, would be an extreme example. Without this 'device' the hero would never find the headquarters and be unable to reach the climactic scene; however the character becomes less of a plot device if the author gives them a back-story and a plausible motivation for defecting, and makes them an interesting character in their own right."

[mhd]

When are trying to tell a story where a guy finds money, but has to be discovered by the villians so they can chase him (main suspense story role of the plot), you're not developing his character, again, you're constricting it to the plot, and in a manner that just doesn't usually fit the mold of human nature, bad-ass or not.

the mold of human nature?

i'm guessing hemingway in old man and the sea or melville in moby dick did it better

[Bill Blake]

the mold of human nature?

i'm guessing hemingway in old man and the sea or melville in moby dick did it better

This is a typical suspense thriller. There are motifs cliches in that genre. The extent to which those are dealt with, lend to the quality of the work.

[mhd]

Dude, howa bout starting here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_device

"Other plot devices are simply one-offs to get the protagonist to the next scene of the story. The enemy spy, who suddenly appears, defects, reveals the location of the secret headquarters and is never heard of again, would be an extreme example. Without this 'device' the hero would never find the headquarters and be unable to reach the climactic scene; however the character becomes less of a plot device if the author gives them a back-story and a plausible motivation for defecting, and makes them an interesting character in their own right."

what you see as plot device i find more than plausible given what back story we have on moss and bardem, we have more back story on tommie lee than the others but moss' actions are more than plausible from my perspective

[Bill Blake]

what you see as plot device i find more than plausible given what back story we have on moss and bardem, we have more back story on tommie lee than the others but moss' actions are more than plausible from my perspective

"the enemy spy, who suddenly appears, defects, reveals the location of the secret headquarters and is never heard of again"

In our case the phone bill fits this plot device. The tricky thing is like I questioned earlier: you've got 'round a one in thirty chance the villain would have came on the day the phone bill arrives conveniently in front of him as he opens the door of the protagonist’s trailer.

It is like the story being questioned in a book I’ve been reading from an author that got his stories in Tit-Bits, an English popular paper in the late 1800s, early 1900s, where in this one story for the protagonist there was conveniently a ladder laying right by the wall he needed to climb in order to warn off a guy from his impending murder. Point being, for popular lit this stuff is old as dirt.

Ha, the guy that wrote those 'successful’ stories ends up in Ulysses, Bloom uses a paper with his story printed on it to wipe his ass after a shit.

[D J 1 3 8]

what you see as plot device i find more than plausible given what back story we have on moss and bardem, we have more back story on tommie lee than the others but moss' actions are more than plausible from my perspective

agreed

[D J 1 3 8]

"the enemy spy, who suddenly appears, defects, reveals the location of the secret headquarters and is never heard of again"

In our case the phone bill fits this plot device. The tricky thing is like I questioned earlier: you've got 'round a one in thirty chance the villain would have came on the day the phone bill arrives conveniently in front of him as he opens the door of the protagonist’s trailer.

It is like the story being questioned in a book I’ve been reading from an author that got his stories in Tit-Bits, an English popular paper in the late 1800s, early 1900s, where in this one story for the protagonist there was conveniently a ladder laying right by the wall he needed to climb in order to warn off a guy from his impending murder. Point being, for popular lit this stuff is old as dirt.

Ha, the guy that wrote those 'successful’ stories ends up in Ulysses, Bloom uses a paper with his story printed on it to wipe his ass after a shit.

the phone bill is simply due diligence on Anton's part
We have every reason to believe that, had it not fallen through the door, he would have sought out the previous phone bill, as he is a methodic mother fucker

In addition, the bill falling through the door while he was in the house was classic Coen Brothers

[mhd]

the phone bill is simply due diligence on Anton's part
We have every reason to believe that, had it not fallen through the door, he would have sought out the previous phone bill, as he is a methodic mother fucker

In addition, the bill falling through the door while he was in the house was classic Coen Brothers

exactly, he would have found moss or his wife eventually, methodically, plus, the bill was also intrinsic to the plot because it establishes the mother-in-law's location which led to their demise as well as a central aspect of bardem's character/ethic that made moss's wife killing necessary

[Bill Blake]

the phone bill is simply due diligence on Anton's part
We have every reason to believe that, had it not fallen through the door, he would have sought out the previous phone bill, as he is a methodic mother fucker

In addition, the bill falling through the door while he was in the house was classic Coen Brothers

I assume your referring to backdrops in the novel. I haven't read the novel. Perhaps the plot devices are better attended to in it?

But I find it troublin' to cover the idea of fate and evade basic probabilities...

[Bill Blake]

Ya'll are rationalizing again....

[mhd]

Ya'll are rationalizing again....

nah, just understanding the limitations of the form

[Bill Blake]

the phone bill is simply due diligence on Anton's part
We have every reason to believe that, had it not fallen through the door, he would have sought out the previous phone bill, as he is a methodic mother fucker

In addition, the bill falling through the door while he was in the house was classic Coen Brothers

How is it classic Coen if it's in a novel they didn't write?

The more you have to assume outside the text, in this type of text, is an indication of the weak plot device.

The phone bill doesn not indicated the characters methodical way, it gives him something without having to even be methodical.

[Bill Blake]

nah, just understanding the limitations of the form

Ha ha, yea...

[mhd]

How is it classic Coen if it's in a novel they didn't write?

The more you have to assume outside the text, in this type of text, is an indication of the weak plot device.

The phone bill doesn not indicated the characters methodical way, it gives him something without having to even be methodical.


looking at the mail is methodical

[Bill Blake]

looking at the mail is methodical

Getting it to look at one the average one in thirty days the phone bill would come is not.

[mhd]

Getting it to look at one the average one in thirty days the phone bill would come is not.

when coming to the home of your quarry to execute them and anyone there to ignore the mail is typical, regardless of the time of the month

[travy]

The idea that the story deals with 'fate' and 'destiny' is not to be confused with the trivial plot devices the author obviously used to make the story work, which is fine, but don't call it a great movie-novel if you can't evade faults that have been known about novels for over a hundred years of aesthetic.

Entertaining? Sure. A 'good' story that people want to see read? Sure? But great 'work'? Nope.

i had this problem too. i just don't see a pragmatic and more than likely racist texan going back to help a dying mexican who he had to know was probably already dead--especially at the risk of his own life. but it was necessary to get the plot going so, i can live with it... my bigger problem (which we've debated at length) is with the clunky ending... best picture? almost but not quite, imo...

[The Real Dragonfly Jones]

Damn... talk about hijacking a thread. How did this go from 10,000 B.C. to plot devices for "No Country" in less than 1/2 a page?

You guys are thread killers.


edit: spelling corrections

[travy]

lets just stipulate that bardem drove past every hotel/motel/holiday inn waiting for a beep...

these highway towns are usually are centered around a single road with all the hotels clustered together so, i can give them this one...

[Sal Paradise]

3. tracking device
2. he is a stalker, all details matter, how many stalkers look at victims mail, how many open it, and then analyze calling patterns, bardem was relentless in his pursuit, he would have made the connection eventually, slowly running down all leads
1. ethics, vietnam vet, leave no one behind, promises made, promises kept, character development

actually he did not go back to give him water. I mean he brought water to give him, but I balieve what brought him back was the realization that he left "footprints" as in the serial numbers and wanted to cover his tracks so nothing led back to him.

I'm kind of into the trailers for 10,000 b.c. I mean clearly trashy popcorn fair but all the digital recreation of ancient civilization looks pretty cool to me. Granted I couldn't stand independence day, so beyond the sets I can't see really getting into it.

[Moksha]

Entertaining? Sure. A 'good' story that people want to see read? Sure? But great 'work'? Nope.

You were expecting this to be a "great 'work'"?!? :wtf:

[Moksha]

Getting it to look at one the average one in thirty days the phone bill would come is not.

you are aware that his is a hollywood movie, right?

[Bill Blake]

you are aware that his is a hollywood movie, right?

Yea man, I'm just saying is all....geeze.

[Bill Blake]

I just hope Odessa and wherever the hell they were living didn’t have the same area code. According to my mom they may have listed long distance phone calls back then, but not local calls or any calls made within the same area code.

[Moksha]

The last two films I went out to see (No Country... and There Will be Blood) reminded me of why I prefer to stay home with a Netflick. This past week, I watched Bergman's filming of The Magic Flute, Antonioni's La Notte (which I really enjoyed), Ping Pong, and That Obscure Object of Desire, which i hadn't seen since college.

[Moksha]

However, I will be wasting my money to go see the new Van Sant film on celluloid.

[AMc]

10000 B.s.

[The Real Dragonfly Jones]

Honestly 10,000 B.C. looked bad in the trailer & commercial. I don't want to see it.

[D J 1 3 8]

However, I will be wasting my money to go see the new Van Sant film on celluloid.

I loved Elephant & Jerry, so I have high hopes for this one

[mhd]

According to my mom ...

any film that has you uttering this phrase in your critique is a work of art...

[Huey P. Freeman]

I've definitely been mislead by trailers in the past. The one that completely pissed me off was the one for "Unbreakable."


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I was so upset when it turned out to be about a f*cking comic book character. Damn you Shyalaman!!

-M JJuan you buggin. Unbreakable is the shit.

[tony winter]

this thread was, a long time ago, officially jacked in the azz!

[Chris Conrad]

people actually use reviews to decide whether or not to see a movie?

i don't even read them...

[Sal Paradise]

Go see my friend Ramins film "CHOP SHOP". It's great caught it over the weekend at Film Forum. He got into the directors Fortnite at Cannes and got a standing ovation. It's about a twelve year old boy living and working in the chopshops behind shea stadium. Excellent flic.