The Matrix Reloaded [SPOILER THREAD - dont look b4 u see the movie!!!] [Archive]

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Nicholas

05-16-2003, 12:22 PM

ahhhhhhhhhh thats better.

"nicholas, remember after the oracle meeting, mr. smith said that after he and neo had the fight, they became a part of each other? how did that happen, we shall find out soon, but that's why he was able to "feel" those animal things that were created by the likes of mr. smith..."

i definately think your onto something, clearly from the trailer, agent smith is the centre of the next film.

He detonated the EMP device early, causing zion to get massacred but that wasnt in Colonel Sander's plan surely, it would have happened anyway.

Agent Smith must know about the Colo.. sorry the Architect's design and was trying to throw it off, not just mess up the humans.

BUT! Mr Smith didnt create the machines, and i dont think it was inferred that Neo got some of smith's abilities was it?

Two theories

1) The Zion and all those evil machine thingys are a second matrix. Thats what Neo realises when he turns around and stops them. He doesnt go into a coma, he rejects the program and wakes up.

2) gimme a minute my head hurts

Nicholas

05-16-2003, 12:29 PM

he had to rebuild the matrix several times due to people not wanting to accept it. Then the oracle came to realize that if they gave these people an option to choose wether their fake world wasn't real or not, even though it wasn't a real choice to begin with. Things would remain in a balance. The only problem with the solution was that every so often, there is always a possible chance that things would not go accordingly and a person would choose to NOT accept their artifical world and one of those people would be a special mistake (Neo and his predecessors)

As time went on, it would snowball into an ever increasing problem of the same mistake happening and those people trying to rescue others of their kind. Once things got out of hand, they were forced to destroy the city of Zion, and restart a new.

Like Colonel sanders said, they destroyed Zion 6 times already, and they've gotten very efficient at doing it. So it must mean that they just accept the entire event as an un-avoidable flaw.

BUT, the Colonel said that there was something different about NEO, he realised something the others did not... which i guess is where the other movie picks up.

05-16-2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Nicholas:

2) gimme a minute my head hurts graemlins/rofl.gif

i cannot say much behind that...

i have one inquiry, though...when the one that was infected by smith's virus shook hands with neo after he cut himself, didn't he still have blood on his hands? if so, the blood is still on the cloth that the silver spoon was wrapped in, meaning he'll find that later...

also, smith is able to get his virus into humans and keep them human, as in the case of the one that shook neo's hand...therefore, there is a possibility that when neo and smith fought, smith and neo both got infected, making them both machines/human...

i think...

i'll have to address the colonel later, as i forgot what i wanted to say about him...

Nicholas

05-16-2003, 12:32 PM

OR

2) Neo is in fact a machine. The Marovian (french bloke) was neo's predecessor - he dropped hints that he used to be like Neo, he remembered being like that etc. also why did he care about the keymaker? he had his own thing going on and he didnt want the One to come and potentially choose to destroy the Matrix.

Personally, how cool were the werewolve/vampire bodyguards? that idea was awesome.

If I get me some of that cake, Leslie can come over for dessert!

Nicholas

05-16-2003, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nicholas:

2) gimme a minute my head hurts graemlins/rofl.gif

i cannot say much behind that...

i have one inquiry, though...when the one that was infected by smith's virus shook hands with neo after he cut himself, didn't he still have blood on his hands? if so, the blood is still on the cloth that the silver spoon was wrapped in, meaning he'll find that later...

also, smith is able to get his virus into humans and keep them human, as in the case of the one that shook neo's hand...therefore, there is a possibility that when neo and smith fought, smith and neo both got infected, making them both machines/human...

i think...

i'll have to address the colonel later, as i forgot what i wanted to say about him... [/QUOTE]i am pretty sure the blood thing was just so Agent Smith could get all jazzed about being human.

"OH SHIT! DUDE! I CUT MYSELF! KICKIN' RAD! I"M HUMAN!!"

We have no idea if he can do the replicating/infecting trick in the "real world" yet, but I bet he can because he's bad ass.

05-16-2003, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Nicholas:
Like Colonel sanders said, they destroyed Zion 6 times already, and they've gotten very efficient at doing it. So it must mean that they just accept the entire event as an un-avoidable flaw.

when he said that, the first thing that came to mind was "purpose", what smith wish he had, but didn't and was jealous of neo for having...the purpose of neo is to continue to provide for the destruction of zion - but this destruction is different, for it's either that smith is involved or that smith is involved and corrupted...smith appears to want purpose and to be a part of things but it's almost as if he's wanting to take over all...almost like HE wants to be the "one"...

i'm gonna watch the first one this weekend to see exactly what the deal is...

05-16-2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Nicholas:
OR

2) Neo is in fact a machine. The Marovian (french bloke) was neo's predecessor - he dropped hints that he used to be like Neo, he remembered being like that etc. also why did he care about the keymaker? he had his own thing going on and he didnt want the One to come and potentially choose to destroy the Matrix.

Personally, how cool were the werewolve/vampire bodyguards? that idea was awesome.

If I get me some of that cake, Leslie can come over for dessert! leslie's a good girl - it can't be a "matrix" cake - it's gotta be real! graemlins/rofl.gif

like the french cat, good things lie ahead for neo if he plays the rules...but he's unfortunately dealing with an entity like smith, which makes it more difficult for him to maneuver like the others...

Nicholas

05-16-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nicholas:
Like Colonel sanders said, they destroyed Zion 6 times already, and they've gotten very efficient at doing it. So it must mean that they just accept the entire event as an un-avoidable flaw.

but this destruction is different, for it's either that smith is involved or that smith is involved and corrupted...smith appears to want purpose and to be a part of things but it's almost as if he's wanting to take over all...almost like HE wants to be the "one"...
[/QUOTE]awesome. you rock.

Nicholas

05-16-2003, 12:52 PM

“What if there was this cake that allowed you to Orgasm? Isn’t that worth fighting for? Isn’t that worth dieing for?”

05-16-2003, 12:54 PM

"...it's like wiping your ass with silk..."

YUJI-SAN

05-16-2003, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Nicholas:
“What if there was this cake that allowed you to Orgasm? Isn’t that worth fighting for? Isn’t that worth dieing for?” hahahahahaha

SuzanneT

05-16-2003, 01:04 PM

Im so bad!!! graemlins/spanka.gif
I cheated I HAD to look at this post. I cant go see it until tomorrow and its killing me!!!! But a friend of mine has a theory that Mr Smith is actually a human that the machines freed him; could this be so or are you guys not gonna tell me your thoughts cuz I havent seen the movie? I am sooo ashamed.

[ May 16, 2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: SuzanneT ]

SHEIK YERBOUTI

05-16-2003, 01:06 PM

How about this, notice how the one dude got infected by Smith and tried to kill Neo on the outside which means that Smith's infection works in both the Matrix and the real world? Maybe, since Smith tried to infect Neo in the matrix, Neo also now has influence on both planes which is how he was able to stop the sentinels in the real world.

Did someone mention this already? If so, sorry. I probably didn't read enough.

SHEIK YERBOUTI

05-16-2003, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by SuzanneT:
Im so bad!!! graemlins/spanka.gif
I cheated I HAD to look at this post. I cant go see it until tomorrow and its killing me!!!! But a friend of mine has a theory that Mr Smith is actually a human that the machines freed him; could this be so or are you guys not gonna tell me your thoughts cuz I havent seen the movie? I am sooo ashamed. HEY! This is our "we already saw it" thread!

Scram! (At least until you've seen it...) ;)

Oak Pk, IL's Best Bedroom DJ, serge

05-16-2003, 01:08 PM

neo and smith are the next incarnation of humanity: man machines with souls

smith and neo will team up in the last matrix to overcome architect sanders, and bring about the inception of a new age where machines and man coexist peacefully (and popeyes chicken will be had by all).

the conversation with the councilman alludes to this.

E-Phi

05-16-2003, 01:09 PM

Agent Smith wants it all. Why do you think he was at the building where the Source was located? Also his "clones" look like Smith in the Matrix but look like their normal human self outside of the Matrix. :eek:
On the other thread I also noted that since he (Neo) can control things in the Matrix he should be able to control things controlled by the Matrix.

05-16-2003, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by toomuchtv:
How about this, notice how the one dude got infected by Smith and tried to kill Neo on the outside which means that Smith's infection works in both the Matrix and the real world? Maybe, since Smith tried to infect Neo in the matrix, Neo also now has influence on both planes which is how he was able to stop the sentinels in the real world.

Did someone mention this already? If so, sorry. I probably didn't read enough. exactly...but it happened earlier when neo got killed by smith and came back to kill smith...somehow they got connected...
i just keep think about computer viruses - how they can sometimes cross over into networks that may have protection as long as they continue to try again and again until they set up an immunity to the protection - sort of how zion keeps getting destroyed again and again - finally smith is immune to the dangers of passing into the real world...

05-16-2003, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by E-Phi:

On the other thread I also noted that since he (Neo) can control things in the Matrix he should be able to control things controlled by the Matrix. such as what? his choices? his purpose?

YUJI-SAN

05-16-2003, 01:14 PM

Isn't Mr Smith that one dude with the knife on Zion that tried to kill Neo from the back?

05-16-2003, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by YUJI BR0WN:
Isn't Mr Smith that one dude with the knife on Zion that tried to kill Neo from the back? yeah, but human...

Nicholas

05-16-2003, 01:17 PM

yes Yuji, he also set off the EMP that destroyed all the ships in the counterattack and is the guy on the table next to neo at the end.

I also dont think its a Matrix within a matrix as I was expounding above, i think that Rickey and Serge have the right idea.

YUJI-SAN

05-16-2003, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by YUJI BR0WN:
Isn't Mr Smith that one dude with the knife on Zion that tried to kill Neo from the back? yeah, but human... [/QUOTE]Ok thats what I thought, gonna go see again tonite
so I can understand it more

E-Phi

05-16-2003, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by E-Phi:

On the other thread I also noted that since he (Neo) can control things in the Matrix he should be able to control things controlled by the Matrix. such as what? his choices? his purpose? [/QUOTE]The fact that "outside the matrix" is still inside the matrix. Someone posted about that coma being Neo waking up again as though everything that has happened so far was still the matrix at work.

Nicholas

05-16-2003, 01:18 PM

I also love the bit where Agent Smith cuts off Neo's hand and then tells him he's his father.

Nicholas

05-16-2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by E-Phi:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by E-Phi:

On the other thread I also noted that since he (Neo) can control things in the Matrix he should be able to control things controlled by the Matrix. such as what? his choices? his purpose? [/QUOTE]The fact that "outside the matrix" is still inside the matrix. Someone posted about that coma being Neo waking up again as though everything that has happened so far was still the matrix at work. [/QUOTE]Nah, I think Zion and that was real, it was just a reality the machines could control.

lola desire

05-16-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nicholas:

2) gimme a minute my head hurts graemlins/rofl.gif

i cannot say much behind that...

i have one inquiry, though...when the one that was infected by smith's virus shook hands with neo after he cut himself, didn't he still have blood on his hands? if so, the blood is still on the cloth that the silver spoon was wrapped in, meaning he'll find that later...
[/QUOTE]the dude that cut himself was the evil dude. yes there was blood on his hand, it should have been on neo's hand too... neo should have looked down and seen the blood but he didn't--infact there was no other blood reference. anyway the bloody dude didn't give him the spoon, there was a totally different kid who gave him the spoon (from the orphan), it was the dude who was all up on his jock when he got back to zion.

E-Phi

05-16-2003, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by lola desire:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nicholas:

2) gimme a minute my head hurts graemlins/rofl.gif

i cannot say much behind that...

i have one inquiry, though...when the one that was infected by smith's virus shook hands with neo after he cut himself, didn't he still have blood on his hands? if so, the blood is still on the cloth that the silver spoon was wrapped in, meaning he'll find that later...
[/QUOTE]the dude that cut himself was the evil dude. yes there was blood on his hand, it should have been on neo's hand too... neo should have looked down and seen the blood but he didn't--infact there was no other blood reference. anyway the bloody dude didn't give him the spoon, there was a totally different kid who gave him the spoon (from the orphan), it was the dude who was all up on his jock when he got back to zion. [/QUOTE]Very perceptive hail.gif "I'll be able to join a crew soon and guess whose crew I want to join..."

lola desire

05-16-2003, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by YUJI BR0WN:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nicholas:
“What if there was this cake that allowed you to Orgasm? Isn’t that worth fighting for? Isn’t that worth dieing for?” hahahahahaha [/QUOTE]i'm gonna get that recipie. (love lawrence fishburn's lines).

Oak Pk, IL's Best Bedroom DJ, serge

05-16-2003, 01:38 PM

i wanna bring persephone to cataclysmic orgasm.

Nicholas

05-16-2003, 01:38 PM

Am I a geek because Ive been listening to Rage Against The Machine all day?

Mack-Williams

05-16-2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Nicholas:
Am I a geek because Ive been listening to Rage Against The Machine all day? They need to get back together.

05-16-2003, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by lola desire:
the dude that cut himself was the evil dude. yes there was blood on his hand, it should have been on neo's hand too... neo should have looked down and seen the blood but he didn't--infact there was no other blood reference. anyway the bloody dude didn't give him the spoon, there was a totally different kid who gave him the spoon (from the orphan), it was the dude who was all up on his jock when he got back to zion. yeah...i said that in the previous thread (about the orphan), but THEY MADE ME ERASE IT
graemlins/mecry.gif

but, like i asked before i was so rudely made to edit my post, "should i suspect the orphan?"

first, the blood in on the wrap that the spoon is in, so we may see it later...this'll awaken neo to the fact (after he realizes the smith can penetrate the real world) that smith is actually a "real" machine and so are others who are with him...

as for the orphan, there was uncanny timing in his arrival to the elevator as they were leaving and the departure of the "smith" human...

05-16-2003, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nicholas:
Am I a geek because Ive been listening to Rage Against The Machine all day? They need to get back together. [/QUOTE]why? you know the bass player from the roots is now with incubus...

Mack-Williams

05-16-2003, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nicholas:
Am I a geek because Ive been listening to Rage Against The Machine all day? They need to get back together. [/QUOTE]why? you know the bass player from the roots is now with incubus... [/QUOTE]They were ill together. They had a sound that just rocked. Stuff was political and banging.

Oak Pk, IL's Best Bedroom DJ, serge

05-16-2003, 01:55 PM

you know what i thought was wack in this movie?

the scene where persephone makes neo bust a mack on her

i music for the rally/dance/sex scene was weak as hell (they shoulda put on "the perculator")

the morpheus speech was weak (they bit that shit off of weak ass "independence day)

and again...

why does a WASP American Male always gotta be the savior of humanity? why not a MAC (Mexican American Catholic) Male (like myself) or an AAB Female (Asian American Buddhist), or a AAB-Bi Female(African American Baptist)!

DAMN!

SHEIK YERBOUTI

05-16-2003, 01:56 PM

Nicholas

05-16-2003, 02:06 PM

some people are mad that Tank wasnt in it

http://www.boycottthematrix.com/

Apparently he asked for too much money, he stole stuff and he was a complete arse to work with.

I for one was glad, the OZ guy was dope.

as for tank, he was a terrible actor

"OOOO-EEEE, this is such an exciting time!"

05-16-2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Nicholas:
I for one was glad, the OZ guy was dope.
was he from oz?!?! i only know him from "the best man"... :eek:

Nicholas

05-16-2003, 02:08 PM

just found this on imdb.com

"Dude, I read that the OLD tank became hard to deal with on the set and wanted more money. But check this, they also said that his behavior became increasingly strange. That he harassed the brothers by calling them a lot and following them and that he stole food from the warner bros. set, so he wasnt invited back."

ahahaha @ Dude

05-16-2003, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by serge:
you know what i thought was wack in this movie?

the scene where persephone makes neo bust a mack on her

i LOVED that part...i wish it could've been me...but i would've made him do a bit more - take him into one of this stalls...

i music for the rally/dance/sex scene was weak as hell (they shoulda put on "the perculator")

yep, that was oakenfold for ya...couldn't you tell?

the morpheus speech was weak (they bit that shit off of weak ass "independence day)

sure was

and again...

why does a WASP American Male always gotta be the savior of humanity? why not a MAC (Mexican American Catholic) Male (like myself) or an AAB Female (Asian American Buddhist), or a AAB-Bi Female(African American Baptist)!

DAMN!

that only happens in robert townsend flicks, man...

[ May 16, 2003, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Ms Rickey X ]

Oak Pk, IL's Best Bedroom DJ, serge

05-16-2003, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
the scene where persephone makes neo bust a mack on her

i LOVED that part...i wish it could've been me...but i would've made him do a bit more - take him into one of this stalls...

i was holding my girl's hand and she's squeezed the shit out of it when we saw that scene.

she got angry at the notion of another women steppin' to a committed man.

that shit hurt! :eek:

05-16-2003, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by serge:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
the scene where persephone makes neo bust a mack on her

i LOVED that part...i wish it could've been me...but i would've made him do a bit more - take him into one of this stalls...

i was holding my girl's hand and she's squeezed the shit out of it when we saw that scene.

she got angry at the notion of another women steppin' to a committed man.

that shit hurt! :eek: [/QUOTE]look, we trying to get out of there and we about to get killed - i'm NOT gon' say a word...and if didn't want to, i'd be like "you gotta do beeter than that, babe!"...trinity knew the time - you noticed she hadn't brought it up later...

Oak Pk, IL's Best Bedroom DJ, serge

05-16-2003, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
noticed she hadn't brought it up later... ahh...but women don't forget shit like that. and i am willing to bet she's gonna bring that incident up in Revolutions!

next time he wants action, Trinity is gonna go, "You better plug your ass back into the Matrix, cuz you ain't gonna plug into me tonight! Scandalous-ass, two timing muthafukka!" :eek:

[ May 16, 2003, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: serge ]

E-Phi

05-16-2003, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by serge:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
noticed she hadn't brought it up later... ahh...but women don't forget shit like that. and i am willing to bet she's gonna bring that incident up in Revolutions!

next time he wants action, Trinity is gonna go, "You better plug your ass back into the Matrix, cuz you ain't gonna plug into me tonight! Scandalous-ass, two timing muthafukka!" :eek: [/QUOTE]and no tellin' when she was gonna use it against him...next day, week, month, or even year graemlins/scared.gif

Nicholas

05-16-2003, 03:36 PM

El Mayimbe

05-16-2003, 07:20 PM

this might add to the discussion:

PART 3 TRAILER:

http://www.mikedingleyjones.btinternet.co.uk/the.matrix.revolutions.mpg

Bold Soul

05-16-2003, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by serge:
i wanna bring persephone to cataclysmic orgasm. Man, was Monica Bellucci workin' that dress or what. Ugh...

liL Ray

05-17-2003, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by serge:
i wanna bring persephone to cataclysmic orgasm. Man, was Monica Bellucci workin' that dress or what. Ugh... [/QUOTE]That dress was banging!!! Anybody know who made it...was it made by the Baroness...www.baroness.com ??

Great discussion by the way...I thought the music for the Zion party was Slamming! Didn't the the party animal in you wish you were at that party?

I love the Oracle...so real, if you know what I'm saying.

formerly known as kenspank

05-17-2003, 09:46 AM

formerly known as kenspank

05-17-2003, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by serge:
you know what i thought was wack in this movie?

the scene where persephone makes neo bust a mack on her

i music for the rally/dance/sex scene was weak as hell (they shoulda put on "the perculator")

the morpheus speech was weak (they bit that shit off of weak ass "independence day)

and again...

why does a WASP American Male always gotta be the savior of humanity? why not a MAC (Mexican American Catholic) Male (like myself) or an AAB Female (Asian American Buddhist), or a AAB-Bi Female(African American Baptist)!

DAMN! at least house music isn't dead in zion.

they keep giving white men superhuman powers, but deep down inside they know that superman is really black. and it makes them mad.

Huey P. Freeman

05-17-2003, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Nicholas:
I also love the bit where Agent Smith cuts off Neo's hand and then tells him he's his father. graemlins/lol.gif hail.gif

Huey P. Freeman

05-17-2003, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by serge:
you know what i thought was wack in this movie?

the scene where persephone makes neo bust a mack on her

i music for the rally/dance/sex scene was weak as hell (they shoulda put on "the perculator")

the morpheus speech was weak (they bit that shit off of weak ass "independence day)

and again...

why does a WASP American Male always gotta be the savior of humanity? why not a MAC (Mexican American Catholic) Male (like myself) or an AAB Female (Asian American Buddhist), or a AAB-Bi Female(African American Baptist)!

DAMN! Actually serge Will smith was originally asked to play Neo buit turned the part down.

Bold Soul

05-17-2003, 10:42 AM

Keanu Reeves is Hawaiian, Chinese and English.

Doesn't classify him was WASP at all. :rolleyes:

[ May 17, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

Bold Soul

05-17-2003, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by serge:
i wanna bring persephone to cataclysmic orgasm. Man, was Monica Bellucci workin' that dress or what. Ugh... [/QUOTE]That dress was banging!!! Anybody know who made it...was it made by the Baroness...www.baroness.com ??

Great discussion by the way...I thought the music for the Zion party was Slamming! Didn't the the party animal in you wish you were at that party?

I love the Oracle...so real, if you know what I'm saying. [/QUOTE]Oh, I know what you're saying. And those dresses at www.baroness.com (http://www.baroness.com) are wicked, to say the least. I love her designs.

Whoa - this gives me an idea...Lil Ray, at it again. Can I call you Little Buddha?!

liL Ray

05-17-2003, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
[QUOTE] And those dresses at www.baroness.com (http://www.baroness.com) are wicked, to say the least. I love her designs.

Whoa - this gives me an idea...Lil Ray, at it again. Can I call you Little Buddha?! The Baroness is the bombdiggity...that's what the wife said...oops, I'm letting the fetishes out of the bag :D ....

What's the idea...spill the beans.

Oh, by the way, that car chase scene was out of this f'ing world!!! The best chase scene in a movie ever!!!!

P-Flipp

05-18-2003, 03:49 PM

Anyone notice Cornel West's cameo?wow! ;)

[ May 18, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: P-Flipp ]

Bold Soul

05-18-2003, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:

And those dresses at www.baroness.com (http://www.baroness.com) are wicked, to say the least. I love her designs.

Whoa - this gives me an idea...Lil Ray, at it again. Can I call you Little Buddha?! The Baroness is the bombdiggity...that's what the wife said...oops, I'm letting the fetishes out of the bag :D ....

What's the idea...spill the beans.

Oh, by the way, that car chase scene was out of this f'ing world!!! The best chase scene in a movie ever!!!! Oh yes! The carchase was worth the price of admission alone. Hot shit.

As far as my idea, PM me and I'll get down. Can't allow the unenightened to be privy. LOL!

jsd540

05-18-2003, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Nicholas:

I also dont think its a Matrix within a matrix as I was expounding above, i think that Rickey and Serge have the right idea. I tend to believe the matrix within a matrix theory.

The architect mentioned that even though giving people a choice would lead to unlimited possibilities, in the end the anomoly would repeat itself and lead to only one result, the birth and continual re-birth of the one.

It would only be logical to create a "real world" for these anomolies to escape to, it would additionally keep them blind to the real fight.

jsd540

05-18-2003, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by Nicholas:
I also love the bit where Agent Smith cuts off Neo's hand and then tells him he's his father. graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

Bill Blake

05-19-2003, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by serge:
you know what i thought was wack in this movie?

the scene where persephone makes neo bust a mack on her

i music for the rally/dance/sex scene was weak as hell (they shoulda put on "the perculator")

the morpheus speech was weak (they bit that shit off of weak ass "independence day)

and again...

why does a WASP American Male always gotta be the savior of humanity? why not a MAC (Mexican American Catholic) Male (like myself) or an AAB Female (Asian American Buddhist), or a AAB-Bi Female(African American Baptist)!

DAMN! Well serge persephone shoule be with me but beside that, if I remember correctly Jet Li was the one the originally had in mind for Neo and he turned it down to his bullshit romeo must die crap movies.

I heard he turned down Crouching Tiger too, the guy if a real ****ing idiot...he must be really regreting some shit...which he should.

Bill Blake

05-19-2003, 08:21 AM

Questions:

So not all 6 times in recreating the Matrix was there a ‘one’ that had a choice?

Giving everyone in the Matrix was given some volition (the main thing missing from the earlier ones that made them not work as well) is what created the possibility of anomalies because mathematically they could not predict all outcomes…

……So when they gave Neo the choice to save Zion or the girl (so is trinity the mother of the Matrix the architect was referring too? Cause there is not another female character that has been introduced thus far that could be considered?) Was it their calculation that he would save Zion instead (the decision that starts the whole process over) which is the choice that all the others had chosen before him? And him choosing the saving Trinity throws a real wrench in their control since it’s the choice none had taken yet (not going back with the Noah’s arch thing of a few humans and rebuilding)???????????

Nicholas

05-19-2003, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Questions:

So not all 6 times in recreating the Matrix was there a ‘one’ that had a choice?

Giving everyone in the Matrix was given some volition (the main thing missing from the earlier ones that made them not work as well) is what created the possibility of anomalies because mathematically they could not predict all outcomes…

……So when they gave Neo the choice to save Zion or the girl (so is trinity the mother of the Matrix the architect was referring too? Cause there is not another female character that has been introduced thus far that could be considered?) Was it their calculation that he would save Zion instead (the decision that starts the whole process over) which is the choice that all the others had chosen before him? And him choosing the saving Trinity throws a real wrench in their control since it’s the choice none had taken yet (not going back with the Noah’s arch thing of a few humans and rebuilding)??????????? definately on the last bit. they had constructed everything so he would pick the other door and 'save humanity' but Neo "understands something that the others did not" and picks the other door for two reasons

1) Trinity
2) He realises something else that we dont yet.

Oh and the mother of the matrix is THE ORACLE you idiot lennox! pay attention!

Oh and I read an interview where Keanu dismissed the matrix in a matrix theory - he said that the brothers dont play box within a box tricks on the audience.

I saw the film again and its clever, there are so many references to their being 6 Ones in the past.
Agent smith talks about the "others", The marovigiligilwillian says "the others had more respect than you". Also Persephone says that the Merovoginian used to be just like Neo (adding further credence to my theory he was a One once too).

Bill Blake

05-19-2003, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by Nicholas:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Questions:

So not all 6 times in recreating the Matrix was there a ‘one’ that had a choice?

Giving everyone in the Matrix was given some volition (the main thing missing from the earlier ones that made them not work as well) is what created the possibility of anomalies because mathematically they could not predict all outcomes…

……So when they gave Neo the choice to save Zion or the girl (so is trinity the mother of the Matrix the architect was referring too? Cause there is not another female character that has been introduced thus far that could be considered?) Was it their calculation that he would save Zion instead (the decision that starts the whole process over) which is the choice that all the others had chosen before him? And him choosing the saving Trinity throws a real wrench in their control since it’s the choice none had taken yet (not going back with the Noah’s arch thing of a few humans and rebuilding)??????????? definately on the last bit. they had constructed everything so he would pick the other door and 'save humanity' but Neo "understands something that the others did not" and picks the other door for two reasons

1) Trinity
2) He realises something else that we dont yet.

Oh and the mother of the matrix is THE ORACLE you idiot lennox! pay attention!

Oh and I read an interview where Keanu dismissed the matrix in a matrix theory - he said that the brothers dont play box within a box tricks on the audience.

I saw the film again and its clever, there are so many references to their being 6 Ones in the past.
Agent smith talks about the "others", The marovigiligilwillian says "the others had more respect than you". Also Persephone says that the Merovoginian used to be just like Neo (adding further credence to my theory he was a One once too). [/QUOTE]I thought the architect dismissed the Oracle being the mother?

Yea, I remember now that the guy had said he was different because his ‘memories’ were much more personal. And also that Neo seemed to understand that not everything like Morpheus and the computers was planned faith and that choice the important factor everyone was leaving out.

Ok so now….what the deal with him having ‘Matrix’ powers in the real world?

Bold Soul

05-19-2003, 08:45 AM

Yea, I think the "Zion and Subsystem to the global Matrix" angle would be a cop-out in storytelling terms - unless it really made philosophical sense.

But the gist of what I received from the Architect's breakdown is that a bit of deterministic unpredictability was used to reinforce the code - and that code would have to be upgraded at the point when the Zion population reached 250,000.

This is why there was a sentinel for each and every human (Morpheus' comment - "that's exactly how a machine would think"). And the Architect comments wryly how they have "gotten really efficient at it".

I have a feeling that Revolutions is going to be a trip and a half - something really profound. I liked this joint - although from a cinematic POV, I was lost when Smith took over Bain's body. The shot of Neo waking up afterward, as if it was a dream, was misleading.

JLennie - you can tell they had to cut Reloaded together in a hurry. The cohesion in the edit was a bit choppy.

I really REALLY dug this joint. A LOTof value there.

Nicholas

05-19-2003, 08:49 AM

Alright, the architect said becoming the one had changed him and clearly in the matrix neo is unstoppable. And dont forget how he got there - through enlightenment and getting smarter.
So maybe in the real world, he now has a connection with the machines.

All that happened was he sensed them coming and then caused them to have a massive electrical failure.

Why has he got a connection to the machines?

1) something he picked up for agent smith
2) [my theory] Neo is part machine.

Bold Soul

05-19-2003, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by Nicholas:
Alright, the architect said becoming the one had changed him and clearly in the matrix neo is unstoppable. And dont forget how he got there - through enlightenment and getting smarter.
So maybe in the real world, he now has a connection with the machines.

All that happened was he sensed them coming and then caused them to have a massive electrical failure.

Why has he got a connection to the machines?

1) something he picked up for agent smith
2) [my theory] Neo is part machine. Is it just me or hasn't a differential been tossed around in the dialog about "one BORN IN the Matrix"?

Cordell

05-19-2003, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by kenspank:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by toomuchtv:
How about this, notice how the one dude got infected by Smith and tried to kill Neo on the outside which means that Smith's infection works in both the Matrix and the real world? Maybe, since Smith tried to infect Neo in the matrix, Neo also now has influence on both planes which is how he was able to stop the sentinels in the real world.

Did someone mention this already? If so, sorry. I probably didn't read enough. yeah i noticed that when neo was able to stop those sentinels with his bare hands toward the end of the movie. [/QUOTE]I was talking with my cousin about this to. This might be the difference with Neo being the One. I don't know about the other Ones, but Neo being able to use his Super Human powers in both the Matrix and the "real" world. This might be something that has never been done... and we might soon find out in 'Revolutions'

Bill Blake

05-19-2003, 09:03 AM

The thing that didnt seem to make sense was the whole Smith thing in the way the film was edited, as if they had to force his importance on you.

Nor do I really understand what Smith is or what he wants in the sense that would going to the architect at that point given him the 'power' that they seem to be making him want?

Also is the Oracle pushing Neo towards the cycle again or is she aware or even want him to 'do it differently'?

I guess thats why she was in charge of all the potentials (makes sense) looking for the one to fullfil the cycle.

Ill tell you one thing, A lot of big time directors in Hollywood are nervous as ****....

I remeber 'Bullet' being the first old school revolutionary car chase....now, no one will be able to top the Matrix one for a long ****ing time....that shit was out of hand....they really outdid themselves.

Although I like the style of how the fight scenes were filmed in crouching tiger much better than matrix....meaning I think the matrix style is perfect for that movie but unlike the car chase which just took the damn cake...there are still some innovative or other methods for fight scenes that can work well.

[ May 19, 2003, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Jamie Lennox ]

Bill Blake

05-19-2003, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by Nicholas:
.

All that happened was he sensed them coming and then caused them to have a massive electrical failure.

Good point, it wasnt really 'matrix super powers' just his ability to stop the machines.

Bill Blake

05-19-2003, 09:18 AM

Oh and ha ha ha at Cornell West being in the flick

Really sad note:

Gloria Foster, who played the wise and cryptic Oracle, passed away from complications of diabetes.

She had a really strong screne pressence.

[ May 19, 2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Jamie Lennox ]

Nicholas

05-19-2003, 09:24 AM

http://force3dfx.gotdns.org/belluccimonica0037.jpg

I looked at an old trailer for both the films and there was the voice of the merovergilian saying, obviously under duress "I would die for that man".

???? ooooooh, so exciting!!!???

Oak Pk, IL's Best Bedroom DJ, serge

05-19-2003, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by serge:
you know what i thought was wack in this movie?

the scene where persephone makes neo bust a mack on her

i music for the rally/dance/sex scene was weak as hell (they shoulda put on "the perculator")

the morpheus speech was weak (they bit that shit off of weak ass "independence day)

and again...

why does a WASP American Male always gotta be the savior of humanity? why not a MAC (Mexican American Catholic) Male (like myself) or an AAB Female (Asian American Buddhist), or a AAB-Bi Female(African American Baptist)!

DAMN! Well serge persephone shoule be with me but beside that, if I remember correctly Jet Li was the one the originally had in mind for Neo and he turned it down to his bullshit romeo must die crap movies.

I heard he turned down Crouching Tiger too, the guy if a real ****ing idiot...he must be really regreting some shit...which he should. [/QUOTE]Get off my woman, Jamie! graemlins/cussing.gif

They should've asked me to play Neo. I would've told Morpheus, "Wait outside. I gotta take care of something". Then, I would've busted out a couple of slices of that Orgasm cake, fed it to Persephone and Trinity...

Man, if you think that car chase scene set a new precedent in action scenes, that bathroom scene woulda set a new standard in sci-fi love scenes! ;)

DAMN! :eek:

MarkK

05-19-2003, 09:38 AM

You know that was a Paul Okenfold song for the zion rave?

Originally posted by kenspank:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by serge:
you know what i thought was wack in this movie?

the scene where persephone makes neo bust a mack on her

i music for the rally/dance/sex scene was weak as hell (they shoulda put on "the perculator")

the morpheus speech was weak (they bit that shit off of weak ass "independence day)

and again...

why does a WASP American Male always gotta be the savior of humanity? why not a MAC (Mexican American Catholic) Male (like myself) or an AAB Female (Asian American Buddhist), or a AAB-Bi Female(African American Baptist)!

DAMN! at least house music isn't dead in zion.

they keep giving white men superhuman powers, but deep down inside they know that superman is really black. and it makes them mad. [/QUOTE]

Nicholas

05-19-2003, 12:26 PM

http://home.attbi.com/~benman26/WHOA.gif

Ligament

05-19-2003, 12:57 PM

I thought the soundtrack was crap.

Especially the choice of Paul freakin Oakenfold as the artist for the "rave scene"

Shit, they could have really made the scene so much better by putting some innovative, futuristic music in there, some juan atkins or jeff mills tracks...

Are we to believe people are still listening to crap oakenfold TRANCE in the future! kill me now!

Friday

05-19-2003, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by Ligament:
Are we to believe people are still listening to crap oakenfold TRANCE in the future! kill me now! icon_rofl.gif

Oak Pk, IL's Best Bedroom DJ, serge

05-19-2003, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Ligament:
I thought the soundtrack was crap.

Especially the choice of Paul freakin Oakenfold as the artist for the "rave scene"

Shit, they could have really made the scene so much better by putting some innovative, futuristic music in there, some juan atkins or jeff mills tracks...

Are we to believe people are still listening to crap oakenfold TRANCE in the future! kill me now! For real, man. I would've vomited that red pill and plugged my ass back into the Matrix as soon as I'd see shit like that. graemlins/puke.gif

Oakey. Jeez-louise.
:rolleyes:

Leslie

05-19-2003, 02:06 PM

Has anyone had coversation with people who didn't like it? My boss after being delayed 3 days was disappointed, which I found interesting.

Also given the death of the actress who plays the Oracle, how much do you think of the original plot had to be changed?

[ May 19, 2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Leslie ]

Bill Blake

05-19-2003, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Leslie:
Has anyone had coversation with people who didn't like it? My boss after being delayed 3 days was disappointed, which I found interesting. It seems that some feminist didn’t like what they consider a more sexist sequel. I think their just cynical lamo’s that aren’t happy unless their miserable.

Nicholas

05-19-2003, 02:09 PM

This might be useful....

*Neo steps through glowing door, we see some neat space effects*
*An elderly hand taps a pen-like remote control in front of an enormous array of screens. We see Neo standing in middle of all of them, looking confused.*

*The elderly man spins his chair around to face Neo*
Elderly White Hair Dude: Greetings, Mr. Bond. I've been expecting you.

Wait, shit. Scratch that last line, sorry. I anticipated.

Elderly White Hair Dude: Hello, Neo.
Neo: Who are you?

The Architect: I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, although your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize that it is the most irrelevant.

Neo: Why am I here?

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an imbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control -- which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo: You haven't answered my question.

Architect: Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The screens showing Neo suddenly take on a life of their own -- They show many different Neos, asking "Others? What others?" Some of them are calm, and others are deeply disturbed. The real Neo remains calm. After a moment, the screens reset to showing the real Neo.*

Architect: The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the next, in which case, this is the sixth version.

*The screens behind Neo go nuts again. Some of them laugh, others cry "Bullshit," and others are disturbed. The camera zooms in closer and closer on one which appears calm and reflective. As we zoom in, we see a twinge as the scanlines disappear and the monitor's display becomes our own view. We see that this is our own Neo.*

Neo: There are two possibilities. Either no one told me...Or no one knows.

Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtably gathering, the anomaly is systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most simple equations.

*The screens go nuts again. "You can't control me!" "I'm gonna smash you to ****in'..." Most of them are flipping off the Architect. Again, we zoom in on the display of the real Neo, who is turning around to look at all his predecessors.*

Neo: Choice. The problem is choice.

*We cut out of the architect's room to go see Trinity fight an agent for a little bit. After 30 seconds or so, we come back.*

Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite perfect. It was a work of art. Flawless. Sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. In inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it based on your history, to reflect the varying grotesquities of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the problem eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo: The Oracle.

Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice -- even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those who refuse the program, while a minority, if left unchecked would represent an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo: This is about Zion.

Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed -- its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo: Bullshit.
Previous Neos: Bullshit!

Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But rest assured -- This will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*More Trinity fighting*

Architect: The function of the one is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program -- after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply in this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo: You won't let it happen. You can't. You need human beings to survive.

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*the architect fingers his remote control again, and we see images of normal people, looking innocent, vulnerable, and entirely unaware of what is going on*

Architect: It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific, vis-a-vis love.

Neo: Trinity.

*We see the screens work together to present a giagantic image of Trinity's falling gun battle with the agent*

Architect: apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo (whispering): No.

Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, where in the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the matrix, to her and to the end of your species.

*the screens fade in the middle of the above line to go back to showing Neo.*

Architect: As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already, I can see the chain reaction. The chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth: She is going to die, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the left-hand door. The screens follow him.*

Architect: Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

Architect: We won't.

*We cut to see Morpheus getting unplugged.*

05-19-2003, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
It seems that some feminist didn’t like what they consider a more sexist sequel. I think their just cynical lamo’s that aren’t happy unless their miserable. sometimes i think "feminists" just wanna be fuddy-duddies just for the **** of it...sheesh...

if anything it was more sexy than sexist...

Leslie

05-19-2003, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
[sometimes i think "feminists" just wanna be fuddy-duddies just for the **** of it...sheesh...

if anything it was more sexy than sexist... [/QB]Hey yeah....it was rather...

05-19-2003, 02:59 PM

Architect: The function of the one is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program -- after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply in this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will result in the extinction of the entire human race.so neo's choice eliminated the matrix, killed all of humanity that was connected to the matrix, correct? the only fight is now in the real world, Zion, whatever you want to call it. I think the kicker will have to do with Smith in the 3rd installment - as he and Neo have a weird bond now and they are both in Zion. Additionally, both Trinity and Neo have demonstrated the ability to resurrect each other through love. I think the 3rd one will focus more on love as a theme, and the salvation of man.

I really, really enjoyed this flick, and the scene that Stiggs quoted above was my favorite - the "meet your maker" sort of thing. Will probably try to watch it again this week.

Leslie

05-19-2003, 03:01 PM

Mack-Williams

05-19-2003, 03:03 PM

More discussion, I am starting to understand.

05-19-2003, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by JL:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Architect: The function of the one is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program -- after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply in this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will result in the extinction of the entire human race.so neo's choice eliminated the matrix, killed all of humanity that was connected to the matrix,
correct? the only fight is now in the real world, Zion, whatever you want to call it. I think the kicker will have to do with Smith in the 3rd installment - as he and Neo have a weird bond now and they are both in Zion. Additionally, both Trinity and Neo have demonstrated the ability to resurrect each other through love. I think the 3rd one will focus more on love as a theme, and the salvation of man.

I really, really enjoyed this flick, and the scene that Stiggs quoted above was my favorite - the "meet your maker" sort of thing. Will probably try to watch it again this week. [/QUOTE]i don't think that neo's choice eliminated the matrix, as he had no control over his choice anyway AND/OR zion was gonna get it anyway...

what's different is that zion was not destroyed by what destroyed it the initial 6 times and there is the element of smith's ability to infect both worlds AND there's the machine/human component...

Leslie

05-19-2003, 03:08 PM

JL - you talk about Trinity and Neo's ability to ressurrect each other through love....it seems as their's is a desperate kind of love because they are constatnly saying to each other "I need you" which is something I grabbed onto in both movies - or maybe I am taking the dialouge out of context.

[ May 19, 2003, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Leslie ]

SHEIK YERBOUTI

05-19-2003, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by JL:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Architect: The function of the one is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program -- after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply in this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will result in the extinction of the entire human race.so neo's choice eliminated the matrix, killed all of humanity that was connected to the matrix, correct? the only fight is now in the real world, Zion, whatever you want to call it. I think the kicker will have to do with Smith in the 3rd installment - as he and Neo have a weird bond now and they are both in Zion. Additionally, both Trinity and Neo have demonstrated the ability to resurrect each other through love. I think the 3rd one will focus more on love as a theme, and the salvation of man.

I really, really enjoyed this flick, and the scene that Stiggs quoted above was my favorite - the "meet your maker" sort of thing. Will probably try to watch it again this week. [/QUOTE]I'm not sure about that. It seems like Neo still has to go back into the Matrix and fight from the inside, therefore the Matrix still exists. The biggest difference is that L. Fishburne said 60% of "Revolutions" takes place in the real world, so we actually get to see the humans in Zion go up against the Sentinels. While the architect said the system would crash, there must be something that Neo does in "Revolutions" that allows him to destroy the Matrix but keep from killing the humans still tied to it.

05-19-2003, 03:16 PM

i noticed that as well, and if what i posted is true about the death of all humans still connected to the matrix at the time of neo's choice, then their love is extremely selfish. however, it may be that this "true" love is the only salvation of man, and when seen in that light they do need each other for the broader benefit of mankind, to continue the Bible analogies, sort of the new Adam and Eve if they can only survive the sentinal attack.

the architect states that humanity would be wiped out by 2 things, the system crash and the ensuing destruction of zion, which i deduce to be via the sentinels. part 3 will probably outline how the remaining humans overcome the sentinels.

Originally posted by Leslie:
JL - you talk about Trinity and Neo's ability to ressurrect each other through love....it seems as their's is a desperate kind of love because they are constatnly saying to each other "I need you" which is something I grabbed onto in both movies - or maybe I am taking the dialouge out of context.

05-19-2003, 03:18 PM

i think i'm go out and rent number 1, watch it, and immediately go watch 2 again. stuff like this really brings out the geek in me.

Leslie

05-19-2003, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by JL:
i think i'm go out and rent number 1, watch it, and immediately go watch 2 again. stuff like this really brings out the geek in me. Okay get out of my head - I was thinking the same thing - LOL!!

SHEIK YERBOUTI

05-19-2003, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by JL:
i think i'm go out and rent number 1, watch it, and immediately go watch 2 again. stuff like this really brings out the geek in me. You should already own number 1...

Seriously, I have to see Reloaded again before I can discuss this too much further. I think I missed too much stuff.

Friday

05-19-2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by toomuchtv:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JL:
i think i'm go out and rent number 1, watch it, and immediately go watch 2 again. stuff like this really brings out the geek in me. You should already own number 1...

Seriously, I have to see Reloaded again before I can discuss this too much further. I think I missed too much stuff. [/QUOTE]Yes, I am going to see it again I missed a lot too, however, the dialogue posted really has helped, now I can have a better understanding of the dialogue .
Too many fights though.

SHEIK YERBOUTI

05-19-2003, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by toomuchtv:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JL:
i think i'm go out and rent number 1, watch it, and immediately go watch 2 again. stuff like this really brings out the geek in me. You should already own number 1...

Seriously, I have to see Reloaded again before I can discuss this too much further. I think I missed too much stuff. [/QUOTE]Yes, I am going to see it again I missed a lot too, however, the dialogue posted really has helped, now I can have a better understanding of the dialogue .
Too many fights though. [/QUOTE]Aw come on, gf. The fights rocked! However, being able to read the dialog has definitely helped me understand what the hell the Architect was talking about. I really only picked up bits and pieces cause I was trying to focus on all the Neo's in the background while I was listening to the Architect speak.

Hey, Nicholas, where did you get this chunk of dialog from? Great addition to the discussion. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

whyilovehouse

05-19-2003, 05:10 PM

There's good discussion in both these posts in regards to the Matrix. Some things stated definitely have made me think. I think though that when viewing both the first and second movies, that as well as watching for entertainment and philosophical reasons, we also should remember to think spiritually when watching both films. I don't believe that the two guys who made this film have done so solely for entertainment purposes. I believe that they both have been blessed to receive spiritual insight that the entire world, especially the U.S.A., should know about the time and what must be done... In regards to the name Thomas Anderson, the name Anderson is derived from a Greek word: Andros, which means man. Therefore the name Anderson implies "Son of Man". Neo is also an anagram for ONE, which also could represent "The Chosen One". In the first movie, the scene where the guy, Troy comes to the door and buys the disk from Neo, he thanks Neo and says something like, "you're my own personal Saviour Jesus Christ". That was irony. They're trying to tell you that the Neo's character is the Christ/ Saviour figure in the picture... The name of the ship is Nebuchadnezzar. According to the Bible, Nebuchadnezzar is the Babylonian King in the book of Daniel. Daniel was a prophet that was ENSLAVED who would interpret dreams, and prophecied of Babylon's destruction. The make and model of Nebuchadnezzar is MarkIII no.11. In the Bible, Mark 3:11 reads, "Whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and shouted, "You are the Son of God!". The last human city is Zion ( another name for Jerusalem). Note also that in the movie is the last human city but is also a ship. Read in the book of Revelation about a New Jersalem coming out the sky, and it's also referred to as the Bride of the Lamb... Neo joins a group who believes he's the "One" and is betrayed by Cyrus. Jesus traveled with 12 disciples and was betrayed by Judas. Note that in the first one, Morpheus told Neo that he was a slave born into bondage... He went on to show him a red pill and a blue one. Red represents freedom. Blue represents deception. Blue is not a true color found in nature. If you notice when you look at the sky it appears blue. But, when you go up in a plane, there's no blue to be found. It's deceptive. So, basically, Morpheus was telling Neo, you can take the blue pill and stay a slave to the Matrix/ inreality that you've been living in. Or, you can take the red pill and become a freeman and independent of the "Matrix" that has you and your mind enslaved to it... So when Neo took the red pill he goes through his tunnel/ hole, and when he comes out, he's nude and has slime and what not on him. That represents the birth process like when a baby comes out of it's mother's womb. Then, after he's unplugged he goes through something like a water fall. That reminds me of when Christians get baptized when they "accept Christ/ "The Truth". Then, when that's over he has to basically learn everything over again, cause what he'd believed was true wasn't.... I also don't believe that it's coincidence that most of the main characters in the film are Black, and most of Zion is Black/ other person's of color. Keanu Reeves isn't even white. He's half Hawaiian. Ever seen the original inhabitants of Hawaii, they ain't white... I also don't think it's a coincidence that he is the one playing Neo/ the savior of the film. Also, interesting to me was the fact that none of the agents ( Smith and others) were persons of color. I also don't believe that it's a coincidence that the two guys who made this picture are from Chicago. Also note in the first film, the scene where Neo and Morpheus are in the Matrix simulator, and they are in a white room with two red chairs and a t.v.. the television has an upside down pyramid on the back of it. And, if you notice both Neo and Morpheus have on the colors red (burgundy/maroon), black, and green. Morpheus has on a dark burgundy/ maroon suit, a light green tie, and black shoes and shirt. Neo has on a Maroon jacket, dark/burnt green shirt, and Black pants. All of that is not coincidence. These guys are telling us something subliminally. Also note in the first one, in the oracle's office there's a sign that says "Know Thyself" in latin. That also can be said, as "Knowledge of Self".... Also interesting that Morphus mentioned in the first one that there was a man who was born in the Matrix yet could see clearly through it, and had the ability to change whatever he wanted and remake it as he saw fit. And, that he'd (this man in the Matrix), had freed the first of them. Then when he "died", the oracle had prophecied about one coming who's coming would "end war, bring freedom to our people", and hail the destruction of the Matrix. Morpheus had spent the rest of his life looking for that one, and believed that Neo was he. That's three men,the one in the Matrix, Morpheus, and Neo.... Where did they get that from? In the second one, the part where they show the 12 council members, and when the Architect mentions the 23 people to Neo also has significance and meaning . Both movies are full of spiritual wisdom on a mathematical plane. I hope that when people watch both films and the sequel, they will think on a spiritual plane as well as a intellectual one. And I hope that they will be blessed to figure out what these two white guys have been blessed to figure out.... Peace!

Bold Soul

05-19-2003, 05:54 PM

What did these two white guys figure out?

Chip_E

05-19-2003, 10:25 PM

The two white guys figured out how to make a "hella-lotta-loot" off a weak ass'd sequel to a great movie.

The Matrix was a great movie, supported by great special effects and choreographed fight sequences inspired by Kung-Fu movies. The story had a beggining, a middle and an end. It took everyone for a great ride.

The Matrix Reloaded was missing all the gun-powder of the first story. Only the shell remained. True that the effects were the bullet to the movie, but the story was the powder that fueled it. The over-the-top effects of the sequel were not able to propel themselves alone.

Of course this is just Hollywood being Hollywood.
They stumbled onto incredible success with a cast of great but only partially respected artists. The combination of a great story, great effects and actors that passionately worked to bring out the best in their craft, that's a rarity in Hollywood. When the formula worked (note that studios routinely risk millions on many marginal movies wagering that one will hit its mark) Hollywood was not prepared for The Matrix to be such a success.

OK, enough of that.
Things I loved about the movie...
Dialogue with the Oracle and the Architect...REALLY makes you think, especially if you're computer literate.
That one line, "...like wiping your ass with silk", will go down in history (I hope). Actually it reminds me of a line from the original "The Truth about Charlie" where Audrey Hepburn takes the filter off a cigarette and says, " I hate these things, it's like trying to smoke through a silk scarf". As for the dance scene, I liked the music (of course "It's Dub" would've worked better), I liked the way it went from tribal to electro. It proves that House Music will never die.

In short, if part 3 is to be a success, all it has to do is get some of us to watch it. For it to be as good as a movie, will require a script as good as the first one.

-e.

David Le C

05-20-2003, 04:26 AM

I saw the movie yesterday; at first I thought the Matrix in the Matrix theory was the one to follow, but now I'm rejecting it...
IMO the key is smith, he's as uncontrollable by the Matrix as Neo and his words that Neo somehow created him seem very important... cause Smith is also the difference from the previous matrixes...

Leslie

05-20-2003, 07:27 AM

There was an article in this past Sunday's New York Times about Cornell West's appearance in the movie. It interviewed him and spoke about how he met the brothers who wrote the movie and how when filiming in Australia they would often stay up deep into the night talking about philosophy, religion, current culture, etc...

05-21-2003, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by Leslie:
There was an article in this past Sunday's New York Times about Cornell West's appearance in the movie. It interviewed him and spoke about how he met the brothers who wrote the movie and how when filiming in Australia they would often stay up deep into the night talking about philosophy, religion, current culture, etc... well, that figures...and it's a smart move for those brothers...

05-21-2003, 01:21 PM

pretty nice article about the Bible analogy:

by
Ken Mondschein

Going into The Matrix: Reloaded, I wasn't worried if the fight scenes or special effects would measure up to the first film—it was the metaphysics that bothered me. The first Matrix was such a neat allegory of Gnostic philosophy, I was more concerned with how the Brothers Wachowski could successfully extend the metaphor into three films than whether they could pull off even more virtuoso examples of cinematic ass-stomping. What was mindblowing about the first movie, after all, wasn't the fight choreography or bullet time, but its brave assertion that the banal, day-to-day reality we live in isn't the real world. In that sense, all the wire-fu was just the candy coating on the red pill the filmmakers were offering to every high school student and cubicle slave in the world. (Though, since I study martial arts myself, I found the idea of kung fu as being metaphorical for something happening in hyper-reality, a la Thibault's mysterious circle, to be pretty darn appealing.)

Thankfully, Reloaded more than allayed my fears, even if it seems that half the reviewers either didn't understand what the Wachowskis were getting at, or else were only paying attention during the highway chase. Watching the movie, I was personally less impressed by the fists of digital fury than by the Brothers' evident familiarity with the Dead Sea Scrolls and the theology of Origen of Alexandria. Seen in the light of the books they're referencing, the movie's plot is brilliant; of course, to the non-initiate, the characters' actions and dialogue seems arbitrary and incomprehensible, and the exposition is just filler between car crashes. It would seem, therefore, that a bit of exegesis of The Matrix: Reloaded is warranted. But be warned: If you haven't seen the movie yet, don't read on. There are some major spoilers.

Much like that other great Keanu Reeves vehicle, Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey, The Matrix: Reloaded centers around the hero's journey into the Underworld. Frazier, in The Golden Bough, notes that it is a prophetess—in this case, the Oracle—who sends the hero off on his journey, from where he returns with special knowledge. And, of course, that's just what Neo does, though it would have been a while lot more amusing if he'd had Alex Winter along. (The Oracle probably isn't entirely benign, by the way, even though she may not consciously intend any harm: She is, after all, the one who sent Neo on the path to the Core.)

Neo's first task is to rescue the Keymaker (Randall Duk Kim, doing his best Rick Moranis impression) from the Merovingian, who is a daemon—in both senses of the word—left over from a previous version of the Matrix. (The Merovingians were the ruling Frankish dynasty; they were succeeded by Charlemagne's family, the Carolingians, and then by the Capetians, who thought they were descended from Christ.) The guy in the health food store where I buy my granola and soy milk thinks that The Merovingian was one of Neo's predecessors, but all the explanation I need, as well as the way I understand his obvious fascination with human pleasures, is found in Genesis 6:4—"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them. . ." According to various sources, including Kabbalah, this mating of men and angels (here, a computer program from an earlier version of the Martrix) is what produced various monsters, such as the vampires and wraiths that serve the Merovingian. Dante, bringing a Christian sensibility to the proceedings, placed these monsters in his Inferno. Thus, though the Merovingian is sort of an antediluvian remnant of the former world, he's also (as is shown by the fact that his wife is named Persephone) kind of like Hades, the holder of the keys to the underworld. What the Keymaker does, much like the golden bough the Sybil gives Aeneas, is open doors and permit Neo access to the underworld—or, in this case, the Core.

After the requisite battles and explosions, Neo gets into the Core and finds The Architect. Considering that The Architect built the Matrix, you might think that he's God. Of course, he's nothing of the sort. In Gnostic theology, it is Satan, not God, who has created the world in order to imprison humanity. It is also the Architect who is unleashing the Sentinels to destroy Zion; that is, beginning the Battle of Armageddon. It is my prediction that in the third and final film, it will be revealed that there is a power behind the Architect, and that he is the one who sent the One into the Matrix. It is also my prediction that this guy will look a lot like Neo.

The important thing is choosing what to believe from the raft of condescending exposition that the Architect inflicts on Neo. He says, basically, that though ninety-nine percent of humans believe in the illusion of the Matrix, there is that troublesome one percent (comparable to the few awakened Gnostic true believers) who refuse to believe in the created world. This tends to produce massive amounts of instability, and crashes the system. (Not coincidentally, most of the people in Zion seem to be black or Hispanic, which makes perfect sense: If you're a white suburban Matrix resident, driving your Matrix SUV to your Matrix golf club, why doubt the nature of reality?) The solution is that they allow the dissidents to escape to Zion, which they can then periodically destroy. They have also created the Prophecy of the One, who is in fact a device sent by the machines into the "real" world so that his knowledge of humanity may be integrated into the system in order to further perfect the Matrix-illusion, and then allowed to re-start Zion so that the cycle can begin again. The idea of multiple creations and a cycle of created and destroyed worlds is, needless to say, also found in theologies as wildly variant as the Mayan and the Buddhist. (And, in the Mayan reckoning, we're currently in the fifth cycle—the sixth starts in 2016.)

The idea that the Prophecy—and Zion—were just another means of control is lifted right out of French philosophy. The first movie made use of Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation; this movie seems to be dipping into Foucault and Derrida, who wrote that the systems of power and control are all-pervasive, and language is one of the ways they make their influence felt. The Prophecy is, like all prophecies, speech, and thus language. More importantly, it is a religion, and, as John Zerzan writes, the purpose of a religion is to manipulate signs, that is, words, for the purpose of control. Zion is the longed-for millennial promised land; by keeping the war between good and evil foremost in their hearts, even the freed humans are kept from doubting their own world, from thinking too hard about why things are the way they are.

Understanding why things are the way they are requires an understanding of another holy text: Asimov's Laws of Robotics. The machines, as demonstrated by Smith's need to try to kill Neo even after being "freed," don't have free will. (Likewise, in various theologies, angels and other such divine beings also don't have free will—only humans do.) The bit about the machines needing human bio-energy to survive, as Morpheus (the dreamer) explained in the first movie, is bullshit. The machines keep humanity alive but imprisoned, even after taking over the world, because they were created to serve people. In other words, the machines would like to destroy humanity, but they CAN'T. Instead, they need a human to make the choice.

As the Architect reveals, Neo is not the first One, but rather the sixth. Why the sixth? The answer is that Neo's five previous incarnations represent the Five Books of Moses that make up the Old Testament. Neo (representing Christ, and thus the New Testament) differs from his five predecessors in his capacity to love. In the work of Origen of Alexandria and other early Christian writers, it is love ("eros" in Greek) that compels Christ to come down from the heavens to redeem humanity. Furthermore, "neo" means "new"—as in "New Covenant." In Neo, the machines have finally found the iteration of the One who will make the illogical choice of saving Trinity and dooming humanity. [Note to the theology geeks who've been e-mailing me: I know the difference between eros and agape, but Origen used both terms for reasons I'd have to delve into pre-Socratic philosophy to explain.]

This is the Architect's real purpose in giving Neo a choice between two doors. At once all human and all machine, rather than being a device to refine the Matrix into a more perfect simulation of reality, re-found Zion, and thus continue the endless cycle of death and rebirth—as the Architect says he is—the purpose of the One is to be manipulated into destroying all of humanity. However, not having free will themselves, the machines are not able to comprehend it in others—and thus Neo, being also human, is a bit of a wild card. It is Neo's destiny—as was Christ's in Origen's theology—to break the cycle of death and rebirth, and offer humanity a new future. This is shown by the fact that, by the end of the movie, Neo (and also, incidentally, Smith) gain power over machines in the "real world"—which shows that he has power not only over the first—level simulated world of the Matrix, but also the second-level simulation of Zion

Mack-Williams

05-21-2003, 01:38 PM

Thanks for that article JL. They made the Matrix to get folks to think.

Oak Pk, IL's Best Bedroom DJ, serge

05-21-2003, 02:24 PM

I've read and listened to interviews with Cornel West, Carrie Anne Moss and Larry Fishburne.

All of them are saying that The Matrix is a movie that questions the nature of reality, and who and what defines it for us, and how we ultimately have to define it for ourselves.

They make references to how popular culture and politics (Bush, SUV's, etc.) as being our own "Matrix": people in power defining our reality and us willingly letting them control us and our decisions.

Neo and the rest of awakened humanity represent socially conscious and self determining human beings.

This is, ultimately, what the Matrix is all about: a metaphor to our own mundane material existence, and our chance to spiritually and consciously change and transcend it.

Bill Blake

05-21-2003, 02:30 PM

Grooooooooovy article JL

This topic was saved by you after Leslie tried to be cute and ruined it with that cheezed out 'love is the message' comment.

05-21-2003, 02:54 PM

I think she was flirting with me, don't tell kai.

Bill Blake

05-21-2003, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by JL:
I think she was flirting with me, don't tell kai. Yea she stood me up on Friday for lunch.

Her exact words were ‘I forgot I made an appointment to get my hair done’ and then she want on for a good fifteen minutes about how the salon/barber shop is some cornerstone of the social fabric of African Americans and how important and all it was…by the time she finished I was almost glad she stood me up.

05-21-2003, 03:07 PM

you should've told her you would braid it yourself.

David Le C

05-22-2003, 04:27 AM

Nice article, but I have another theory about the Merovingian;

The Merovingians (under Clovis) were the first frankish dynasty to be baptized (hence "to believe") but they did it in order to gain more power and land... so they were no true believers, only out of selfish reasons. Much like the Merovingian is only using the matrix to gain power, wealth and some fine pussy.... :D

El Mayimbe

05-23-2003, 06:15 PM

no one here mentioned ANYTHING in reference to the ANIMATRIX series.

remember, according to the series we (humans) enslaved machines and they rebeled after one android was placed on trial and sentenced to death for fighting back and eventually killing its' master.
Further down the storyline and we see that the machines have created a land for themselves on another part of the earth and attempted to make peace with the humans @the United Nations council only to be destroyed by humans at the very spot.

I forgot who mentioned this earlier on the thread but the Oracle being a program herself is probably trying to reach that level where humans and machines co-exist peacefully again since we both need each other.
btw, on the trailer of part 3 notice how the Asian guy protecting the ORACLE was using some big time guns to defend himself, obviously some harm is intended towars the Oracle, and also remember how they quickly split at the court yard and who arrives? AGENT SMITH & his copies.

JoeB

05-24-2003, 04:05 PM

just saw it and i THOUGHT i paid attention but i'm definitely seeing it tomorrow to try to see what i missed but i loved it. for some reason though, i thought that agent smith and the french dude were the programs that went bad or something to that effect that the oracle explained to neo during their little visit. i'm sure i'm way off but i'm definitely checking it out again. great discussion, btw.

05-25-2003, 03:39 AM

Don't mind me, I'm just passing through jackin' this thread. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/walksmil.gif

Cheddar

05-27-2003, 06:25 AM

The most convincing flying super hero ever.
More convincing than Superman.

ngeso

05-27-2003, 07:11 AM

actually,

Matrix Reloaded is total rubbish. i was in there and i thought i was watching Stargate or 5th element or something.

- what's this Zion / "it's great to be home" / deep space nine bullsh*t? where did that whole underground-partisan-submarine feeling go?

- what's with all these people and the hare krishnas and chilluns and random motherf*ckers, and where did they get all those offerings of pineapples and camel-hair-blankets from - what happened to eating that slimey tasteless sh*t?

- what's that cast-of-a-thousands/state-of-the-union-rave bullsh*t? what, beyond thunderdome ???

- what? four, five fight scenes with the same moves? Neo gets to stop 328 bullets now instead of 32? yawn.......

- what? Lawrence Fishburne needs to lose some weight, because Lawrence looked kinda slow; where did that megacool mofo Morpheus go?

- what, that was Jada's role? that was it? i think Mrs. Smith needs to get with Monica Bellucci's agent;

- and whereTF was Jarjar Binks, cos i missed him.

in other words: i was disappointed badly by Matrix Overloaded.

peace. ngeso.

BTW, did Zion get wiped out or not, because if it did, i couldn't tell from the cast reactions. operator sure didn't shed a tear about the wifey...

[ May 27, 2003, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: ngeso ]

ngeso

05-27-2003, 07:13 AM

double.

[ May 27, 2003, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: ngeso ]

Topester

05-27-2003, 08:47 AM

Zion wasn't destroyed, the planned counter attack against the sentinels was.

BTW: Yes of course Neo is a Christ allegory, but then IMHO Christ analogies are a lazy way to make sure that stoner yoot will go on discussing them ad nauseum, adding 'deep' layers of meaning to what was essentially a souped up computer game. No offence, like!

Give me City Of God anyday... that has to be the most DHP film of the last year no question. Better rave scene than Matrix Reloaded for a start!

El Mayimbe

05-27-2003, 10:00 AM

saw it again this weekend and i noticed something else someone can figure out:

When NEO was talking to the ORACLE @that courtyard there was a Chinese symbol on the side of the door from the Matrix to the courtyard which was visible from the ORACLE's rigth shoulder (obviously they meant for peopel to notice this later on).

Did anyone notice this and what the symbol meant?

JoeB

05-27-2003, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Topester:
Give me City Of God anyday... that has to be the most DHP film of the last year no question. Better rave scene than Matrix Reloaded for a start! no doubt. the block party scenes in "city of god" were awesome.

Bill Blake

05-27-2003, 10:06 AM

Couple of things after seeing it twice.

Im not so sure that the Merovingian is an earlier NEO, he may just be a program that wanted power and was exciled.

His wife Persephone may also be the 'mother' the architect was refering too (dont know)...I dont think or it does not seem it was the Oracle

El Mayimbe

05-27-2003, 10:28 AM

& note that Persophone will take a bigger role next movie since she is dressed in Red which btw, someone told me she's actually a vampire of some sorts, thats why she wanted to kiss NEo since she needs to recoup those feelings.

05-27-2003, 11:23 AM

the text that stiggs posted up from neo's encounter with the architect would lead me to believe that the oracle is the mother of the matrix, however, the way the colonel said "pul-leeassse" in the movie made it seem that wasn't the case.

going to watch part 1 on my cousin's 51" tv Saturday, then to the theatre to watch part 2 again.

gabriel

05-29-2003, 01:07 AM

JL you are a nerd smile.gif

but i'm bumping this back up to see if people's stewing on it created any new thoughts.

Martin Red

05-29-2003, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
Thanks for that article JL. They made the Matrix to get folks to think. They made the Matrix to make lots of money, and it's looking like the merchandising is gonna equal to Star Wars.

The Matrix
The first one made you think, it was partially based in the real world and the story of finding out was the interesting part.

Relaoded
They have taken away the connection with the real world, now it's more Star Wars meets Superman, that flying bit was a bit to frequent for my liking, with the out stretched fist - up up and away. The whole messiah thing out of control. I think the second film is basically piggy in the middle. The Zion generic club scene with the clubby hippy people throwing their hair and sweat about was totally uncalled for, that bit was like an extended pop video, a bit to MTV for me.

I was never totally blown away with the Matrix, great film but not enough to make me get all nerdy over it, perhaps because I saw Body Snatchers as a kid.

The fight scenes where great just too many of them or they just went on for too long, like the scene with the French dudes cronies, enough already of the twisty jumpy stairs thing. I didn't care for the twins musch either all a bit Wizardly dreadlocks for me, besided that the twins present a house DIY programme in the UK which is utter shit, so that may have put me off,

ooohh look it's a dready ghost gardener graemlins/scared.gif - that's real convincing.

The best bit the the fighting with the numerous Smiths, where they get battered with a big pole, that was impressive. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/slap.gif

Three will be the one ! then the box set then the Gold edition directors cut with free Mr Smith pop up book and candy.

If three don't cut it they have failed, I hope that one impresses me more on the story than the effects

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/twocents.gif

[ May 29, 2003, 04:39 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

El Mayimbe

06-05-2003, 11:09 PM

sorry but I gotta continue this one:

#1 I'm gonna repeat this question: HAS ANYONE NOTICED THE CHINESE SYMBOL BY THE DOOR IN THE COURTYARD WHERE THE ORACLE & NEO SPOKE?!?!?!!?!?!

#2 i copied this interesting thought from another discusiion board:

Zion is actually a Matrix (actually, an 'outer' Matrix), which hosts the proverbial "Matrix." It is analogous to a Unix-based server (the Matrix) running under the Unix Kernal (Zion). Neo is, himself, a programmer. The Architect has programmed the Zion-based Neo to have great powers within the Matrix. This is to make Neo believe that Zion is real, as he is not programmed to have these same powers outside of the Matrix. However, Neo is a Neural Network ... a learning system. He is learning to implement his powers and vision in Zion. Agent Smith has made it to Zion. Agents are, in fact, programs (perhaps a virus, perhaps a rule). Therefore, Zion must be "programmatic" in and of itself ... not real.

The French dude gave us a clue when he displayed the power of programs to control humans physiology. Neo's love for Trinity is a result of a program.

One more thing: Zion = In Oz

#3 Neo said it in a disapproving tone to the Councelor, "is that why there arent any young people on the Council?!" keep that in mind I think too many people are banging their heads as to waht the Architect said to Neo.

and last thing.......the Alice In Wonderland issue. Is it all a dream within a dream? ;)

writing this while listening to the Aphex Twin ;)

Bold Soul

06-06-2003, 12:46 AM

The intent of The Matrix is to reveal the destructive force of salvationist myth in human development.

Mah'chew

06-24-2003, 08:45 PM

I saw the only IMAX English language version to be played in Japan last night.

The film is great in an IMAX format, we got 5 metres of Persephone's cleavage and that rubber dress - wow :eek: , pretty tight..
http://www.crankycritic.com/archive03/papers/images/matrix-persephone_small.jpg

And the French Dude is the devil - look see:

Persephone - The ancient Greek Goddess of Springtime.

Legend has it that she was so beautiful that the God of the underworld fell in love with her and spirited her down to Hades.

She is a somewhat melancholy Goddess, yearning to be free of the underworld, but doomed to spend half the year there.

When she does escape, the world comes alive again.

In Greece, all the spring flowers are white, so she is mostly white except for her hair. Being the

I believe Morpheus is 'one'...

And when the baddies turn good... :D
http://eddache.bolloxcomics.co.uk/pics/goodbook.gif

[ June 24, 2003, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: Mathius ]