Question For you DJs... can you maintain?

[noshaluv]

In 2008 we have so much wonderful technology to play music. But what if CD's, MP3's and programs for the purpose of playing music ceased to exist.... and there was only vinyl to be played on......... What percentage out of all the 1000's of djs would still be true to the game?

This isn't a question of what's better or whether your a realist or a purist..... So don't get it twisted.

Dj's ask yourself this question and be honest. Cause we got a lot of cats that dismiss this so-called dying media.

[OneMasterMixer]

Yes I did say 15,000 and 2000 45's. I am pretty sure "I will survive"

Life was built on Vinyl for me and once that runs out...I start on cassettes (with my pitch controlled cassette deck) and end with 8 tracks (I still need that matchbook to keep it from skipping) and reel to reel tapes as a last resort.

Let it go..I be aight. Only problem would be what to do with the thousands of dollars in equipment..But.."I maintain"

[DUBFLY]

In 2008 we have so much wonderful technology to play music. But what if CD's, MP3's and programs for the purpose of playing music ceased to exist.... and there was only vinyl to be played on......... What percentage out of all the 1000's of djs would still be true to the game?

This isn't a question of what's better or whether your a realist or a purist..... So don't get it twisted.

Dj's ask yourself this question and be honest. Cause we got a lot of cats that dismiss this so-called dying media.


99% Lets not get it twisted we never stopped playing vinyl we just stopped carrying it around…… lol..!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rasmir Mantree]

There's still those that have never seen vinyl

[OneMasterMixer]

There's still those that have never seen vinyl

Aught to B a shamed of themselves and where the hell did they put their roots.. It must be a weave.

[Pang]

There's still those that have never seen vinyl

I've had people ask me "you still buy vinyl"?? Haven't seen it in years. . .


I also did a presentation in one of my classes and there were younger kids in it (I'm talking out of high school) and they looked at me like . . "what is that"? hahaha

[geo]

In 2008 we have so much wonderful technology to play music. But what if CD's, MP3's and programs for the purpose of playing music ceased to exist.... and there was only vinyl to be played on......... What percentage out of all the 1000's of djs would still be true to the game?

This isn't a question of what's better or whether your a realist or a purist..... So don't get it twisted.

Dj's ask yourself this question and be honest. Cause we got a lot of cats that dismiss this so-called dying media.

What is your tattoo of?

It looks like Hobbes.

[OneMasterMixer]

I've had people ask me "you still buy vinyl"?? Haven't seen it in years. . .


I also did a presentation in one of my classes and there were younger kids in it (I'm talking out of high school) and they looked at me like . . "what is that"? hahaha

My Son is 7 and can mix vinyl, cd or MP3..no bullshyt. He has a portable stand
I had made for him. he has no idea what a cassette or 8 track is..lol

[Big Easy]

I just started learning to Dj so you can say that I'm still a dj assistant but the first thing that was put in my hand was on wax.So I could not cheat had to learn to beat match wax.I was told that I have to progress naturally to cd's.And believe me looking at break lines in a record has help.JMHO.

[OneMasterMixer]

I just started learning to Dj so you can say that I'm still a dj assistant but the first thing that was put in my hand was on wax.So I could not cheat had to learn to beat match wax.I was told that I have to progress naturally to cd's.And believe me looking at break lines in a record has help.JMHO.


I am proud of you and may your Mixologist Sensei be blessed for teaching you the right way. Nothing beats those grooves

[Mizzmeme]

There's still those that have never seen vinyl

Right, Right! HHHHMMMMM!

[Mizzmeme]

Aught to B a shamed of themselves and where the hell did they put their roots.. It must be a weave.

Alright now "Weave is a Wonderful Thing", lol!

[OneMasterMixer]

Alright now "Weave is a Wonderful Thing", lol!

Im just playin. I am sew okay with it.

[Mizzmeme]

I am proud of you and may your Mixologist Sensei be blessed for teaching you the right way. Nothing beats those grooves

YEAH!

[Sensei Melei]

wouldn't be no problem, got vinyl for years...

[noshaluv]

It's good to know people still play them tunes on wax. It shows to me true skills of a dj and the new technology that we have...... shouldn't be used as a crutch but as another tool to enhance your skills as a dj.

[noshaluv]

But no one's really answered the question......What percentage would last or continue to be true to the game? I don't believe many would..... maybe because of convenience or just plain lack of vinyl whatever the reason...... I don't believe many would survive.

[Terry James]

It's good to know people still play them tunes on wax. It shows to me true skills of a dj and the new technology that we have...... shouldn't be used as a crutch but as another tool to enhance your skills as a dj.

Why do you consider other formats (MP3, Wave, CD, etc) to a crutch?

[Chuck P]

99% Lets not get it twisted we never stopped playing vinyl we just stopped carrying it around…… lol..!!!!!!!!!!!!


Bingo, just bought some wax the other day, I'll be transferring it to cd for playing though, my back can't take carrying them heavy ass crates no more.......

[noshaluv]

Well Terry let me correct myself by saying some computer programs and some decks give you more of an advantage...... especially with the bpm being read for you...... so in a way it is a "Crutch" because you can kinda cheat matching the bpm's together.

But I guess its just more of a conveneice because there are those that sit and count the bpms and write it on their records. I've seen it alot in the record stores.

But I still believe there is more of a skill or an art to playin on vinyl. No looping or editing (except for the edited songs you buy on vinyl).

But answer my question how many dj's do you think could survive in this game? If we went back to our "roots"

[noshaluv]

And Chuck P I feel you........ Plus If you pay a good penny on some you don't want to risk someone coming up and scooping it away.
I'd like to say for some of yall djs..... Vinyl is an addiction......

But to answer the question you think 99% wow.

[E-Phi]

The majority of music I have on cd I recorded from vinyl. I've been doing that for years. We can always break out the reel to reel. I still have my edit block and splice tape (somewhere in the music room lol).

[OneMasterMixer]

Well Terry let me correct myself by saying some computer programs and some decks give you more of an advantage...... especially with the bpm being read for you...... so in a way it is a "Crutch" because you can kinda cheat matching the bpm's together.

But I guess its just more of a conveneice because there are those that sit and count the bpms and write it on their records. I've seen it alot in the record stores.

But I still believe there is more of a skill or an art to playin on vinyl. No looping or editing (except for the edited songs you buy on vinyl).

But answer my question how many dj's do you think could survive in this game? If we went back to our "roots"

Not many if we lost the technology.

Very very valid points.

Chances of that happening.....zero. When learning, you should learn on vinyl to make sure you have really mastered beats, however..with a denon, pioneer or technic...you are pretty much using them like vinyl. If you own an EFX 500 (or any beat machine) your beats can be matched easily. If you use Serato..you can actually see the BPM on the software..IE Cheating. Other side of the coin... Being able to know the beat opens up doors. All of my house albums are BMP every single track..Do you have any idea how many years, man hours and sleepless nights this takes, just so I can mix two tracks I would never have thought of. For years I was diehard Vinyl, i didn't even want to talk about CD's or MP3 until......I got hooked on CD and realized I didn't have to move from my position at the system to grab anything. TIME ruled.

Next level. Serato came along

I can set up my record case by beats per minute...tracks I want to run...I can do a search on a 500gb hard drive and in seconds..seconds I can find the track..as opposed to going on a Manhunt for something I really want to play..but can't find in my 15,000 album stacks.

Looping

When I mixed vinyl.. i always had to buy two albums because of beat breaks. If a record was hot.. you had to have two.. now I simply drop the MP3 onto the otherside and bingo dual mixing. CD same concept..the best part of CD's would be the auto looping feature. By pressing a button and being able to loop a track anywhere you want and long as you want.. Instant set up for remixing.

Love love love my Vinyl, but we don't use our fingers to mix any more and don't have to lug them damn crates..The only thing missing is the visual beat breaks.

Serato lets you go to the millisec of that break beat. CD's do too. The only reason for my turntables right now is serato. Vinyl..storage.

JMO - The dinosaur can leave the building

[Terry James]

Well Terry let me correct myself by saying some computer programs and some decks give you more of an advantage...... especially with the bpm being read for you...... so in a way it is a "Crutch" because you can kinda cheat matching the bpm's together.

But I guess its just more of a conveneice because there are those that sit and count the bpms and write it on their records. I've seen it alot in the record stores.

But I still believe there is more of a skill or an art to playin on vinyl. No looping or editing (except for the edited songs you buy on vinyl).

But answer my question how many dj's do you think could survive in this game? If we went back to our "roots"

Vinyl is a tool the same way CDs and MP3s are

I can't answer that question, I never assumed we/they were surviving to begin with. I have a day job for survival. Sure the whole format thing has allowed more accessibility into the DJ game but we have all benefited. There were wack DJs when we only had vinyl and BPM counting still ain't helping several of these jocks that can't blend. At this stage your technical ability shouldn't even be a factor, this should be a given whenever you grace the tables or decks for an audience. Your ability to read the crowd and adapt to a living and changing dance floor is the skill that matters most.

[Mizzmeme]

Im just playin. I am sew okay with it.

lmao!

[Mizzmeme]

Well Terry let me correct myself by saying some computer programs and some decks give you more of an advantage...... especially with the bpm being read for you...... so in a way it is a "Crutch" because you can kinda cheat matching the bpm's together.

But I guess its just more of a conveneice because there are those that sit and count the bpms and write it on their records. I've seen it alot in the record stores.

But I still believe there is more of a skill or an art to playin on vinyl. No looping or editing (except for the edited songs you buy on vinyl).

But answer my question how many dj's do you think could survive in this game? If we went back to our "roots"

but you know the fellas used to do that back in the day. Write their bpm on their records. I dont see that now. I think it was still some what of a learning process for some.

[Mizzmeme]

And Chuck P I feel you........ Plus If you pay a good penny on some you don't want to risk someone coming up and scooping it away.
I'd like to say for some of yall djs..... Vinyl is an addiction......

But to answer the question you think 99% wow.

R u serious? 99%? HHHHMMMM!

[noshaluv]

Very good points guys......Damn gotta keep yah day job I guess..........

[Mizzmeme]

Vinyl is a tool the same way CDs and MP3s are

I can't answer that question, I never assumed we/they were surviving to begin with. I have a day job for survival. Sure the whole format thing has allowed more accessibility into the DJ game but we have all benefited. There were wack DJs when we only had vinyl and BPM counting still ain't helping several of these jocks that can't blend. At this stage your technical ability shouldn't even be a factor, this should be a given whenever you grace the tables or decks for an audience. Your ability to read the crowd and adapt to a living and changing dance floor is the real specialty here.

School 'em boo!

[noshaluv]

Yes you are very right Terry. And I really don't believe alot of cats would survive if we just had vinyl or I should say stay true to the game.
But I am very greatful for the technology though. Because I love my JazzyFunkNasty playlist on my I-Pod........ so without some of these tools I wouldn't have such a variety of music to access at any given time....

[OneMasterMixer]

lmao!


:rofl5:

[djmarbll]

I think half of the clubs in NYC would lose their dj's if we were to resort back to vinyl exclusively. Many dj's I hear at the "top 40" clubs aren't even blending songs together. They're just playing songs from their Ipod, which doesn't take too much skill at all in addition to being sonically hard to deal with. The dj's I spin with in Brooklyn use vinyl and Serato, but they still prefer vinyl because of the analog sound quality. I use about 98% vinyl to this day when I spin. In Brooklyn, (especially in Williamsburg and Greenpoint) there's been a movement toward using vinyl again, especially obscure 45's.

[OneMasterMixer]

I think half of the clubs in NYC would lose their dj's if we were to resort back to vinyl exclusively. Many dj's I hear at the "top 40" clubs aren't even blending songs together. They're just playing songs from their Ipod, which doesn't take too much skill at all in addition to being sonically hard to deal with. The dj's I spin with in Brooklyn use vinyl and Serato, but they still prefer vinyl because of the analog sound quality. I use about 98% vinyl to this day when I spin. In Brooklyn, (especially in Williamsburg and Greenpoint) there's been a movement toward using vinyl again, especially obscure 45's.

Well Said.

[HOUSE MIKE FEVA]

Man LOOK...I got tons and tons of vinyl that im still ripping to my harddrive BUT I VOW NEVER to carry them heavy ass crates again....my back just CAN NOT take it anymore...I LOVE THE DIGITAL AGE!

[Martin Red]

Dj's ask yourself this question and be honest.

Yes, certainly, not a problem, a pleasure not a chore :)

[FK]

In 2008 we have so much wonderful technology to play music. But what if CD's, MP3's and programs for the purpose of playing music ceased to exist.... and there was only vinyl to be played on......... What percentage out of all the 1000's of djs would still be true to the game?

This isn't a question of what's better or whether your a realist or a purist..... So don't get it twisted.

Dj's ask yourself this question and be honest. Cause we got a lot of cats that dismiss this so-called dying media.
So you want to play 'what if'? OK... if - as you are saying - there were suddenly no software programs and such,
this could only mean one thing:

That there would be no computers.

Since there would be no computers, there wouldn't be an Internet to connect them, with you in it. You wouldn't
have been able to ask the question the way you did as this message board would have ceased to exist, and no
one would have been able to read it or answer it at all....

FAIL!

....'what if'.... LOL

Next question?

FK

[Sal Paradise]

Many dj's I hear at the "top 40" clubs aren't even blending songs together. .

Marbll I hear your basic point. And the whole reason I made the switch to serato about a year and a half ago is because I play top 40 clubs and it was an evolve or die situation. But no one, I mean no one in a real club setting top forty or other wise is playing off an ipod.

[Chris Burns]

I'm in the opposite dilemma. I have to hustle and basically get some of my disco collection onto CD since there will be no turntables at my gig on Friday (its paying well so its worth my while).

Regardless, who cares. Playing fucking music and play it WELL

[TeenShelterHead]

Vinyl all the way i dont Dj very much but wen i get behind my dad's set up jus having that feeling of vinyl in your hand is the best shit .

[Scott Fitlin]

In 2008 we have so much wonderful technology to play music. But what if CD's, MP3's and programs for the purpose of playing music ceased to exist.... and there was only vinyl to be played on......... What percentage out of all the 1000's of djs would still be true to the game?

This isn't a question of what's better or whether your a realist or a purist..... So don't get it twisted.

Dj's ask yourself this question and be honest. Cause we got a lot of cats that dismiss this so-called dying media.I began pl;aying in `74, 12 years old, `77 I was using the ORIGINAL TECHNICS 1200,s NO QUARTZ LOCK, and Thorens TD-125,s.

I can keep goin!

[DJ_Francesca]

Yes...
though id have to be wearing the lil dresses and skirts on the regular...
so strangers will stop in the streets and take the crates and carry them for me...
:0)

[OneMasterMixer]

I began pl;aying in `74, 12 years old, `77 I was using the ORIGINAL TECHNICS 1200,s NO QUARTZ LOCK, and Thorens TD-125,s.

I can keep goin!

I started in 74 and was 11 years old. I was always on punishment, so I would stay in the house with the windows open and mix for everyone outside. Had crowds outside my window on weekends

at 9 I had two turnatbles and would switch from aux to phone to mix. Used my fingers to slow the record down or speed it up (damn if feels good to be digital) My speakers were home made from car speakers and milk crates..lol. I wired everything with bread twists (my poor young broke ass)

at 11

Started with a Clubman one-on-one, pioneer amp and Technics b101 til the damn belts wore down. I had an ADC Eq (that still works) and My fav AST assKicker speakers with Canal Street horns on top and a homemade set of tweeters made out of wood and holes cut by a friend who took a carpentry class in school. Yep I swore I was Richard Long.

I was a record fiend. I would not eat lunch in school so I could use my lunch money for record shopping. I remember once I was soooo hungry and I had one dollar to my name. It was either french fries or Ohio Players skin tight on 45..guess which my starvin ass chose.

Point is.. I loved Vinyl more than eating..it was a passion...it was a lifestyle..it was..a pain in the ass carrying all that shit..

:acclaim:

[OneMasterMixer]

Yes...
though id have to be wearing the lil dresses and skirts on the regular...
so strangers will stop in the streets and take the crates and carry them for me...
:0)

If it were me they would throw the vinyl at me and beat my ass with the crates..lol

Ohh the love of a Women DJ :-) :hail:

[jojaujae3]

I'd be spinning wax. Bottom line

[Terry James]

I'd be spinning wax. Bottom line

the only wax you got is in your ear :tongueout:

[jojaujae3]

the only wax you got is in your ear :tongueout:
OOOOOOOO, you wanna throw garbage cans at people! :scratchchin:

[dj joey joe]

Yep I got everything under control even if they stop making vinyl it's so much out there right now that I can play a record once for the next 30 years. Like Amir (from Kon & Amir) said nobody will ever have every record in the world it's just too many. :biggrin:

[Moksha]

Well Terry let me correct myself by saying some computer programs and some decks give you more of an advantage...... especially with the bpm being read for you...... so in a way it is a "Crutch" because you can kinda cheat matching the bpm's together.

But I guess its just more of a conveneice because there are those that sit and count the bpms and write it on their records. I've seen it alot in the record stores.

But I still believe there is more of a skill or an art to playin on vinyl. No looping or editing (except for the edited songs you buy on vinyl).

But answer my question how many dj's do you think could survive in this game? If we went back to our "roots"

First... DJing is not beat matching.

Second... beatmatching two house records is so easy, I can usually teach newcomers to do it within minutes.

Third... it really isn't any easier to blend songs on CDs and computers than vinyl. If you think this is some big blending crutch, you haven't played across formats.

Fourth... "no looping or editing"?!? You don't think people were doing this with vinyl?

Finally... "survivng" in this game has little to do with technology... aside from the fact that you can now be broke and still have a huge collection of (stolen) music.

[E-Phi]

Yes...
though id have to be wearing the lil dresses and skirts on the regular...
so strangers will stop in the streets and take the crates and carry them for me...
:0)

:eek: :grinyes: So...how many flight of stairs up do they need to go?

[lvdphse]

Chances of that happening.....zero. When learning, you should learn on vinyl to make sure you have really mastered beats, however..with a denon, pioneer or technic...you are pretty much using them like vinyl. If you own an EFX 500 (or any beat machine) your beats can be matched easily. If you use Serato..you can actually see the BPM on the software..IE Cheating. Other side of the coin... Being able to know the beat opens up doors. All of my house albums are BMP every single track..Do you have any idea how many years, man hours and sleepless nights this takes, just so I can mix two tracks I would never have thought of. For years I was diehard Vinyl, i didn't even want to talk about CD's or MP3 until......I got hooked on CD and realized I didn't have to move from my position at the system to grab anything. TIME ruled.

Next level. Serato came along

I can set up my record case by beats per minute...tracks I want to run...I can do a search on a 500gb hard drive and in seconds..seconds I can find the track..as opposed to going on a Manhunt for something I really want to play..but can't find in my 15,000 album stacks.

Looping

When I mixed vinyl.. i always had to buy two albums because of beat breaks. If a record was hot.. you had to have two.. now I simply drop the MP3 onto the otherside and bingo dual mixing. CD same concept..the best part of CD's would be the auto looping feature. By pressing a button and being able to loop a track anywhere you want and long as you want.. Instant set up for remixing.

Love love love my Vinyl, but we don't use our fingers to mix any more and don't have to lug them damn crates..The only thing missing is the visual beat breaks.

Serato lets you go to the millisec of that break beat. CD's do too. The only reason for my turntables right now is serato. Vinyl..storage.

JMO - The dinosaur can leave the building[/QUOTE]

Man I agree with you 100% but the disadvantages you mention are for me the fun part of vinyl. Granted mine never leaves the basement.

Not having BPM's on my records tunes my ear a little better. When I first started the old guy that taught me didnt have BPM's listed. No problem for him but for me I would go thru 5 records before finding one that went. After a while I would just know what would and would not work BPM wise.

That "manhunt" for the song that will work to me shows skill especially if you are not a scripted DJ.

As for looping features I cant wait to get a CDJ. The big help though is knowing how,when,where to start,end loop from having to manually (2 records) do it for so long.

Of course all this can and has been accomplished by those whose fingers has sadly never touched wax but when you have come from that era I think you can not only better appreciate the ease and convenience of digital but can put it to use a little faster and easier than someone who hasn't.

[KragShot]

First... DJing is not beat matching.

Second... beatmatching two house records is so easy, I can usually teach newcomers to do it within minutes.

Third... it really isn't any easier to blend songs on CDs and computers than vinyl. If you think this is some big blending crutch, you haven't played across formats.

Fourth... "no looping or editing"?!? You don't think people were doing this with vinyl?

Finally... "survivng" in this game has little to do with technology... aside from the fact that you can now be broke and still have a huge collection of (stolen) music.

Not even stolen. I went to using CDs and mp3s because of economics. To put it bluntly, it's cheaper for me to go to Traxsource or Beatport and buy the exact version of the track I want for $1.99 than going to Gramaphone/Hot Jams and buying the same vinyl for $10.99. But with that being said, I still go and buy vinyl when I can afford to do so, when I need an older track, or when there is that one special track I want to get on vinyl.

I'd survive because I learned back when there was only vinyl, and the skill dynamic is the same. To quote Josh Wink (I think) talking about using software; "...(this program) will not make you a better DJ. If you suck as a DJ before you got this program, this will simply make you suck a whole lot faster...."

Anyway, to address FK's post, we can take a realistic spin on this angle. Yes, we'd all be done and buggered if the technology failed, whether we used turntables or computers. An atmospheric EMP burst would fry turntable motors as well as hard drives. In that case the only "DJs" who would survive would be the ones who took the time to go out and learn music theory and to play an instrument...but then they wouldn't be DJs would they? They would be musicians.

Out of all of the different classes of musical performers, we are the only ones who are totally dependent upon the advent of technology. All of the other musicians can survive without it. Singers (real ones anyway) can still sing without amps and enhancement. There are acoustic/non-powered versions of every instrument out there (not including experimental instruments). DJs on the other hand need the existing technical curve to maintain our craft. Anyone can play a Victrola, but it took quartz precision to bring the mix DJ into being.

Face it guys; if the technology goes away, so do we.

With that being said, there are "levels of going away" that can be considered. Tech gurus have always talked about the possibility of an "info-pocalypse," or "the day when the internet fails." There are countless scenarios where our data-flow structure might fail. Furthermore, let's talk about the possibility of low to mid-level EMP damage due to "terrorist (spelled government)" activity.

It would be far easier and more cost effective to get a turntable back up and working than a computer. Tube amps will also do better in that case than a transistorized one. Honestly, I've heard my stuff ran through a guitar amp and it sounds pretty wild!

Now going back to the main question, I can relate this directly to my personal experience. I run an anime convention (Anime Central- www.acen.org) and we do two dances at the con (Underground Groove and The Soap Bubble). I DJ at the Soap Bubble along with a few other guys. We get a lot of flack from haters who claim that they are better DJs than we are. So we decided to come up with a DJ contest to give these guys the chance to "put up or shut up." Besides a lot of cool prizes, we also put up our spots to spin at the Saturday night dance (the Soap Bubble), against the prize.

The rules for the contest are here (http://www.acen.org/index.php?categoryid=10&p2_articleid=63).

Anyway, the point is that one of the main rules is that we do not allow the use of software beyond Scratch Live, Final Scratch, or Torq; in other words, no "push-button mixing." The first year, we got a lot of people who entered and we ended up turning away nearly three-quarters of them because they showed up for the quarter finals expecting to use Traktor/PCDJ/Atomix/ or similar software to do their qualifying sets. One kid even had all of his mixes preprogrammed for the contest.

The next year, we had fewer DJs enter the contest, and this year we've only had one entry. In each case where I inquire why a given person won't enter, they always bring up "the software" rule.

So, based on the responses I get about this contest, I think that a lot of DJs out there would not be able to function if the "software went away."

[OneMasterMixer]

I agree with most of there points, as these are very good ones. We really aren't fighting but adding additions.

The fact that it is not about beat matching couldn't be more right.

It is also about FORMAT.

I can match all day but if I have a shitty show what diff does it make.

I can format a show and play each record one at a time without matching..guess what..people will flock. Now if I take those same tracks and blend them..Fuckin Hero!!



Matching, coordinating, DJing..

Last point

I don't give a damn what you are using because my ears are not watching you mix.. If it is good then it is good.

If you are mixing on two pitch control cassette decks, a reel to reel and a "close and play" phonograph and it is workin..IT IS WORKIN.

JMHO


Nuff said

[Scott Fitlin]

Started with a Clubman one-on-one, pioneer amp and Technics b101 til the damn belts wore down. I had an ADC Eq (that still works) and My fav AST assKicker speakers with Canal Street horns on top and a homemade set of tweeters made out of wood and holes cut by a friend who took a carpentry class in school. Yep I swore I was Richard Long.



:acclaim:
We had the Clubman also, then we had that silver AST mixer. Remember that one? YEAH, AST ASSKICKERS! I thought EVERYONE HAD THOSE! Gauss loaded, they DID kick, too! Altec Voice Of The Theater, and CROWN AMPS! And JBL horns and tweeters. In 1978, we got our first Bozak mixer, and on weekends when the other kids were playing football, I was playing records, at Eldorado, who had time for sports?

Those days were FUN!

[Armento]

I began pl;aying in `74, 12 years old, `77 I was using the ORIGINAL TECHNICS 1200,s NO QUARTZ LOCK, and Thorens TD-125,s.

I can keep goin!
fyi.. you're very old

[JMJ]

fyi.. you're very old

Wer'ds

Ancient.......JMJ

[Armento]

First... DJing is not beat matching.

Second... beatmatching two house records is so easy, I can usually teach newcomers to do it within minutes.

Third... it really isn't any easier to blend songs on CDs and computers than vinyl. If you think this is some big blending crutch, you haven't played across formats.

Fourth... "no looping or editing"?!? You don't think people were doing this with vinyl?

Finally... "survivng" in this game has little to do with technology... aside from the fact that you can now be broke and still have a huge collection of (stolen) music.
you gonna post a mix, big O, or keep talkin shit?

[S&S]

But no one's really answered the question......What percentage would last or continue to be true to the game? I don't believe many would..... maybe because of convenience or just plain lack of vinyl whatever the reason...... I don't believe many would survive.

I admit I'd probably hang it up......my back cant handle lugging 5 or 6 record boxes/crates and those heavy 1200's around these days. Shit I honestly dont even like carrying 2 cd books anymore.........thats why Im slowly switching to SERATO

[Scott Fitlin]

fyi.. you're very oldI'm 46, and you know what comes with age?

Knowledge, and EXPERIENCE!

You know what else? I may be older than some, BUT I LOVE THE MUSIC, and I CAN ROCK THE HOUSE! Does it really matter that I am older than you?

[Chris Conrad]

Marbll I hear your basic point. And the whole reason I made the switch to serato about a year and a half ago is because I play top 40 clubs and it was an evolve or die situation. But no one, I mean no one in a real club setting top forty or other wise is playing off an ipod.

you can pick up any dj magazine and see pics and reviews of some celebrity dj who showed up, plugged their ipod in and played off it...i've seen it also and local bullshit spots...no mixing or cueing or anything...just clicking on tracks off an ipod...

[Sal Paradise]

you can pick up any dj magazine and see pics and reviews of some celebrity dj who showed up, plugged their ipod in and played off it...i've seen it also and local bullshit spots...no mixing or cueing or anything...just clicking on tracks off an ipod...

this would never happen in any of the actual clubs in the city, unless it was a special event party or something. Only place these things go down are in exclusive little lounges and the like. Paul Sevengly's place opened with this philosophy of no Dj's just ipod slingers. And you know what it doesn't even matter in those kind of spots and I understand the direction. But your not about to walk into Maqrquett or even 1 Oak, or Kane or Tenjune or where ever and see a night club where people go to dance getting down to some one jog wheeling through there ipod.

[D J 1 3 8]

I'm 46, and you know what comes with age?

Knowledge, and EXPERIENCE!

You know what else? I may be older than some, BUT I LOVE THE MUSIC, and I CAN ROCK THE HOUSE! Does it really matter that I am older than you?

you're still super fucking old

[Scott Fitlin]

I admit I'd probably hang it up......my back cant handle lugging 5 or 6 record boxes/crates and those heavy 1200's around these days. Shit I honestly dont even like carrying 2 cd books anymore.........thats why Im slowly switching to SERATOYou know what?

I use Serato these days, and am looking into Traktor, as well as Ableton, and truthfully, the technoloy is working, and continually improving as well. In addition to the weight factors I think the new technology sounds good, and JUST as is the case with either records or CD,s, some files sound better than others, and many files made now actually sound good. Getting the best one can from files is also system dependent, better speakers, electronics, and YOUR laptop ALL make HUGE difference. Downloads will sound different using different CD decks as well.

Now, how much of what can be purchased at Traxsource or Beatport an be gotten on vinyl today? Record stores wen out of business, and even when the long standing stores were still open, lacked the really good selection they once used to have!

Then, price! The last time I was at Satellite, 12in import vinyl was $15.99 a piece, and vinyl being a petroleum based product would have cost what over the last year or so, with gas prices going thru the roof? And, the selection available was terrible.

I got tired of hearing store clerks say " We don't have that ", or " We can't get that "! At least Traxsource and Beatport have HUGE selection, and ALL the music.

But, seriously, the technology DOES work, and can sound great. IT IS system dependant, but, then, IT ALWAYS WAS! Nothing new there. Records did not sound equally good on all systems, and for sure, files don't wear out, but CD,s and records do.

And, it will continue to get even better, I believe this!

[Scott Fitlin]

you're still super fucking oldand?

[bigshawn]

I am still lost with playing wax means you are true to the game? Not being funny, but I thought it was all about playing the music. Music that we are here for and the music that dominates most of what you hear. All the beat matching and what not is not bing true to the game. Playing the music is true to the game. You can teach a monkey to beat match, that's not hard.
A friend of mine once said that it when you buy a cd or listen to a mix, is it the blendding of the 2 tracks that dominate? Or is it the actual song that you hear most of? I got to co-sign.
As far as buying wax...let's take a look at something that is most dear to our hearts. The Iraq war. If they like music, do you actualy think they can go to a record store and buy wax? Hell no, some places don't even accept the ip address and will not let them even browse the site.
Don't forget that music is global and not regional. Some do not have any possible way to purchase wax. So dam a format and just play the darn music already :) All that other stuff is just your own personal taste. So I will stay true to the game and just play music regardless of format:)

[D J 1 3 8]

and?

that is all

[D J 1 3 8]

As far as buying wax...let's take a look at something that is most dear to our hearts. The Iraq war. If they like music, do you actualy think they can go to a record store and buy wax? Hell no, some places don't even accept the ip address and will not let them even browse the site.
Don't forget that music is global and not regional. Some do not have any possible way to purchase wax. So dam a format and just play the darn music already :) All that other stuff is just your own personal taste. So I will stay true to the game and just play music regardless of format:)

your logic is flawless

[bigshawn]

You know what?

I use Serato these days, and am looking into Traktor, as well as Ableton, and truthfully, the technoloy is working, and continually improving as well. In addition to the weight factors I think the new technology sounds good, and JUST as is the case with either records or CD,s, some files sound better than others, and many files made now actually sound good. Getting the best one can from files is also system dependent, better speakers, electronics, and YOUR laptop ALL make HUGE difference. Downloads will sound different using different CD decks as well.

Now, how much of what can be purchased at Traxsource or Beatport an be gotten on vinyl today? Record stores wen out of business, and even when the long standing stores were still open, lacked the really good selection they once used to have!

Then, price! The last time I was at Satellite, 12in import vinyl was $15.99 a piece, and vinyl being a petroleum based product would have cost what over the last year or so, with gas prices going thru the roof? And, the selection available was terrible.

I got tired of hearing store clerks say " We don't have that ", or " We can't get that "! At least Traxsource and Beatport have HUGE selection, and ALL the music.

But, seriously, the technology DOES work, and can sound great. IT IS system dependant, but, then, IT ALWAYS WAS! Nothing new there. Records did not sound equally good on all systems, and for sure, files don't wear out, but CD,s and records do.

And, it will continue to get even better, I believe this!

Exactly!!!!..A friend of mine is still waiting for Into My Life to come out on wax.

[S&S]

Exactly!!!!..A friend of mine is still waiting for Into My Life to come out on wax.

hahahahahahahahahahaha..he's a TRUE DJ

[Scott Fitlin]

that is allJust because I may be twice your age, or whatever the difference is, doesn't mean I don't know my sound and my music.

I had many a good laugh this last summer, the younger people asking me what mixed CD I was playing? They just couldn't fathom that I was spinning tunes, simply because I am older than they!


FWIW, more than likely, the audio equipment you use was also designed by people older than you, but, does sound KICK ASS when playing younger peoples music!

In this case, WHAT'S in my head is more important than my numerical age!

[Sensei Melei]

99% lets not get it twisted we never stopped playing vinyl we just stopped carrying it around…… lol..!!!!!!!!!!!!


bingo!!!

[Scott Fitlin]

All the beat matching and what not is not bing true to the game. Playing the music is true to the game. You can teach a monkey to beat match, that's not hard.
I agree, playing the music, is whats true to the game!

They probably CAN teach the monkey to beatmatch, but can they teach the monkey to know what tunes mix with each other musically? When the monkey matches the music music harmonically, so the sounds blend together, as opposed to the sounds clashing, as minor chords and majors do, then the monkey has done something!

All this BS about the hardware, but, a great DJ still tells a story thru the music, complete with emotion, and takes the audience on a journey!

[D J 1 3 8]

FWIW, more than likely, the audio equipment you use was also designed by people older than you, but, does sound KICK ASS when playing younger peoples music!


http://smiliesftw.com/x/deaf.gif

[pirahnahead]

In 2008 we have so much wonderful technology to play music. But what if CD's, MP3's and programs for the purpose of playing music ceased to exist.... and there was only vinyl to be played on......... What percentage out of all the 1000's of djs would still be true to the game?

This isn't a question of what's better or whether your a realist or a purist..... So don't get it twisted.

Dj's ask yourself this question and be honest. Cause we got a lot of cats that dismiss this so-called dying media.

Those who MAKE real records still PLAY real records.. Wax causes Karma...Trust Me on that!! I STILL MAKE AND PLAY REAL WAX!!! For those who know - There is no better quality!

[JMJ]

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/JumpTheShark.jpg

[bigshawn]

Aaaaayyy :)

[Scott Fitlin]

Those who MAKE real records still PLAY real records.. Wax causes Karma...Trust Me on that!! I STILL MAKE AND PLAY REAL WAX!!! For those who know - There is no better quality!I won't argue that vinyl sound, properly mastered does have a great sound.

But, the great pressing plants of yesterday are where today? And, also, the great mix and mastering engineers are either retired or dead! And the ones that are still here, won't work if they can't get paid!

I have alot of vinyl, and ALOT of the vinyl from the last few years of vinyl REALLY being available, sounded terrible. Not because vinyl is lower in quality, either. Simply because IT WAS NOT MADE PROPERLY!

Then, just the availability of product became an issue, a BIG issue! There just are NOT enough titles available on vinyl to really KEEP IT GOING!

Of course, sound quality is a factor, and a HUGE factor for me, BUT, I kid you not, I got great results using Serato and a laptop! Now, I heard serato thru a macbook Pro 17, with a TOTL high speed HD, and it gets better. And I think Traktor sounds EVEN better still.

And, I think that the approach to systems, and said voicing of systems, require one to do things a bit differently than what we used to do to extract optimal results from vinyl!So, it takes off from this point, if one does what they need to do!

I did not miss being at a record store and having the sales clerks say NO WE DON'T HAVE IT!

WE NEED TO HAVE AVAILABLE MUSIC CATALOG TOO!

And vinyl does not have the availabilty as it once did! I need more than 10 records!

[Satin Doll]

i dont care how you play the music, just beat it and beat it hard! that's my relaxation!:biggrin:

[BlackJeff]

I started mixing with vinyl and now I use Serato. I've tried other formats like Ableton, Traktor, Deckadance etc..and I gotta say I love my Serato.
Vinyl is too expensive, money wise and time wise. Where do you go to find vinyl these days? I have no idea. It's so easy to go online and find a dozen hot trax download them and play then in less than half an hour at a cost much cheaper than years past. Who could argue with that? The digital age is here, why run from it?
However, learning on vinyl is the best way to learn how to DJ. Just the idea of counting beats and figuring out in your mind where a break is and getting an overall feel of how the music is made and using your hands and reading the grooves and so many other things that happen with using vinyl that you don't get these days, even with Serato, makes you a better DJ. But that's just my opinion.
Either adapt or die.

[däp]

I play cd's as if they were vinyl, usually staying within a certain pitch range. these programs have definitely helped the hotmix hip hop club dj's. just grab some shit and slam it.

[dj kelvin]

There's still those that have never seen vinyl

Vinyl is that that thing old folks use on furniture?.......:lol:.....But for real I would have to go out and start buying vinyl and then learn how to mix on it but I would do it cause I love to make people dance....:thumbsup:

[Scott Fitlin]

I started mixing with vinyl and now I use Serato. I've tried other formats like Ableton, Traktor, Deckadance etc..and I gotta say I love my Serato.
Vinyl is too expensive, money wise and time wise. Where do you go to find vinyl these days? I have no idea. It's so easy to go online and find a dozen hot trax download them and play then in less than half an hour at a cost much cheaper than years past. Who could argue with that? The digital age is here, why run from it?
However, learning on vinyl is the best way to learn how to DJ. Just the idea of counting beats and figuring out in your mind where a break is and getting an overall feel of how the music is made and using your hands and reading the grooves and so many other things that happen with using vinyl that you don't get these days, even with Serato, makes you a better DJ. But that's just my opinion.
Either adapt or die.I want another software program for the things I can do with it, that I cannot do with Serato. That said, I will still have Serato, I agree, I LOVE SERATO!

I agree " reading " the grooves on vinyl offers something that Serato or any software program can't, VISUAL contact, but, this isn't impossible to overcome. You just have to know your tunes.

The digital age IS here, we want music, and this is the NEW format, and the files they make now, sound good.

You can still FEEL your music, even in download format. We have the choice of using beat syncing, which I don't use, you can mix and blend, or slam tracks, whatever the individual chooses, but the fact is, WE CAN STILL GET CREATIVE WITH IT, as we were with vinyl.

The late 90,s and onward, much of the vinyl being sold was OVERLOADED with low frequency, and didn't sound all that great. Or how many records weren't mastered correctly, IF mastered at all?

Of course, price WILL determine, and what would a 12in import cost now? 20 bucks each? And the little bit of selection available on vinyl, leaves much to be desired. As well, proper sounding phono cartidges have become almost non existent, the DJ carts with pumped up low end stink, IMHO!

Simply put, the files, and associated playback gear available now sound VERY good, and this, combined with the availabilty of source material made music fun again, inspiring, and you can do as much with it as an individuals imagination and creativity allow.

We had a blast this year with Serato, and music is alive, and kickin hard!

IT WORKS!

[dag]

i have not heard/seen anything from a dj in my years of going out that would make me think vinyl is giving them any sort of advantage of expression over software which actually did sync the sources for you. I'll give lots of credit to the wbmx type guys of the 80s. The archives show some tremendous skills which put modern guys to shame, but they also seemed to play the same fuckign records for years and years. The tracks are classic, but I can imagine the djs and audiences themselves going crazy playing the same things over again without doing something with the records.

Nowadays the musical selection a dj has can drown him/her in music. It would be one thing to expect everyone to do the same tricks as decades before, but the same technology which opened up the playing field for new music also affords new opportunities in performing it.

I think its a good idea for a dj to earn their fee, but ti just seems silly to stagnate or go backwards when unexplored options are already present. That said, my market is still mostly vinyl, with scratch amps gaining ground. I do know djs that do indeed let the software sync their sources, and they actually sound a bit more interesting, as they incorporate other creative elements into the sets besides turnin an eq or isolator knob or some cheap effect.

How about separating the adults from teh children and asking for the effect of moving the studio into the booth? Anyone can press play on a turntable.

[Scott Fitlin]

How about separating the adults from teh children and asking for the effect of moving the studio into the booth? Anyone can press play on a turntable.This is why I am looking at Traktor Pro, and Ableton.

Their are things you can do with these, you can't do with Serato.

Serato is still fun to use, and sounds good, but, with yet more programs, still more to accomplish!

[DJ Celeste Alexander]

In 2008 we have so much wonderful technology to play music. But what if CD's, MP3's and programs for the purpose of playing music ceased to exist.... and there was only vinyl to be played on......... What percentage out of all the 1000's of djs would still be true to the game?

This isn't a question of what's better or whether your a realist or a purist..... So don't get it twisted.

Dj's ask yourself this question and be honest. Cause we got a lot of cats that dismiss this so-called dying media.

To just answer your question, Can I Maintain? yes. Being true to the game has nothing to do with if you Can play vinyl or not. I started on wax, any DJ that has played for 20 years or more probably has. And having the Ability to play on wax, and doing so just because you want to remain "loyal" to something that is clearly being phased out due to technology are two diffrent things.
Wax is not a "so called dying media", but it IS being phazed out due to the progression of technology. thats real talk. Most clubs, and venues do not even have turntables for dj's to use any longer. so what is one to do that wants to stay in the game? Either progress with the times, or die trying to be loyal to wax, because thats where it all began?

The progression of technology, and the dj's treck to progress with it does not take away one's ability to play wax. Its just like riding a bike, I can still do it.

[JMJ]

Most of those that are "loyal" to wax don't have to lug it out of their bedrooms. They are maintaining......JMJ

[DJ Celeste Alexander]

Most of those that are "loyal" to wax don't have to lug it out of their bedrooms. They are maintaining......JMJ

True LOL

[HOUSE MIKE FEVA]

fuck all the bs...im tired of mofos talkin about wax, cds and serato..I CAN PLAY ON ALL 3...for the record I got over 15000 records...I got A TON OF CDS, and I got over 200,000 songs on my 5 hardrives AND I STILL GET DRUNK BEFORE I DJ.....TEST ME! YES I WILL SURVIVE!

[bigshawn]

fuck all the bs...im tired of mofos talkin about wax, cds and serato..i can play on all 3...for the record i got over 15000 records...i got a ton of cds, and i got over 200,000 songs on my 5 hardrives and i still get drunk before i dj.....test me! Yes i will survive!

bingo!!!!! :)

[djmarbll]

So you want to play 'what if'? OK... if - as you are saying - there were suddenly no software programs and such,
this could only mean one thing:

That there would be no computers.

Since there would be no computers, there wouldn't be an Internet to connect them, with you in it. You wouldn't
have been able to ask the question the way you did as this message board would have ceased to exist, and no
one would have been able to read it or answer it at all....

FAIL!

....'what if'.... LOL

Next question?

FK

Leroy Burgess actually asked me this question last time I saw him in NYC.
Technology can NEVER replace talent.

[djmarbll]

Not even stolen. I went to using CDs and mp3s because of economics. To put it bluntly, it's cheaper for me to go to Traxsource or Beatport and buy the exact version of the track I want for $1.99 than going to Gramaphone/Hot Jams and buying the same vinyl for $10.99. But with that being said, I still go and buy vinyl when I can afford to do so, when I need an older track, or when there is that one special track I want to get on vinyl.

I'd survive because I learned back when there was only vinyl, and the skill dynamic is the same. To quote Josh Wink (I think) talking about using software; "...(this program) will not make you a better DJ. If you suck as a DJ before you got this program, this will simply make you suck a whole lot faster...."

Anyway, to address FK's post, we can take a realistic spin on this angle. Yes, we'd all be done and buggered if the technology failed, whether we used turntables or computers. An atmospheric EMP burst would fry turntable motors as well as hard drives. In that case the only "DJs" who would survive would be the ones who took the time to go out and learn music theory and to play an instrument...but then they wouldn't be DJs would they? They would be musicians.

Out of all of the different classes of musical performers, we are the only ones who are totally dependent upon the advent of technology. All of the other musicians can survive without it. Singers (real ones anyway) can still sing without amps and enhancement. There are acoustic/non-powered versions of every instrument out there (not including experimental instruments). DJs on the other hand need the existing technical curve to maintain our craft. Anyone can play a Victrola, but it took quartz precision to bring the mix DJ into being.

Face it guys; if the technology goes away, so do we.

With that being said, there are "levels of going away" that can be considered. Tech gurus have always talked about the possibility of an "info-pocalypse," or "the day when the internet fails." There are countless scenarios where our data-flow structure might fail. Furthermore, let's talk about the possibility of low to mid-level EMP damage due to "terrorist (spelled government)" activity.

It would be far easier and more cost effective to get a turntable back up and working than a computer. Tube amps will also do better in that case than a transistorized one. Honestly, I've heard my stuff ran through a guitar amp and it sounds pretty wild!

Now going back to the main question, I can relate this directly to my personal experience. I run an anime convention (Anime Central- www.acen.org (http://www.acen.org)) and we do two dances at the con (Underground Groove and The Soap Bubble). I DJ at the Soap Bubble along with a few other guys. We get a lot of flack from haters who claim that they are better DJs than we are. So we decided to come up with a DJ contest to give these guys the chance to "put up or shut up." Besides a lot of cool prizes, we also put up our spots to spin at the Saturday night dance (the Soap Bubble), against the prize.

The rules for the contest are here (http://www.acen.org/index.php?categoryid=10&p2_articleid=63).

Anyway, the point is that one of the main rules is that we do not allow the use of software beyond Scratch Live, Final Scratch, or Torq; in other words, no "push-button mixing." The first year, we got a lot of people who entered and we ended up turning away nearly three-quarters of them because they showed up for the quarter finals expecting to use Traktor/PCDJ/Atomix/ or similar software to do their qualifying sets. One kid even had all of his mixes preprogrammed for the contest.

The next year, we had fewer DJs enter the contest, and this year we've only had one entry. In each case where I inquire why a given person won't enter, they always bring up "the software" rule.

So, based on the responses I get about this contest, I think that a lot of DJs out there would not be able to function if the "software went away."

Interesting point. It shows some cats couldn't even call themselves dj's without technology allowing them to do so.

[djmarbll]

I want another software program for the things I can do with it, that I cannot do with Serato. That said, I will still have Serato, I agree, I LOVE SERATO!

I agree " reading " the grooves on vinyl offers something that Serato or any software program can't, VISUAL contact, but, this isn't impossible to overcome. You just have to know your tunes.

The digital age IS here, we want music, and this is the NEW format, and the files they make now, sound good.

You can still FEEL your music, even in download format. We have the choice of using beat syncing, which I don't use, you can mix and blend, or slam tracks, whatever the individual chooses, but the fact is, WE CAN STILL GET CREATIVE WITH IT, as we were with vinyl.

The late 90,s and onward, much of the vinyl being sold was OVERLOADED with low frequency, and didn't sound all that great. Or how many records weren't mastered correctly, IF mastered at all?

Of course, price WILL determine, and what would a 12in import cost now? 20 bucks each? And the little bit of selection available on vinyl, leaves much to be desired. As well, proper sounding phono cartidges have become almost non existent, the DJ carts with pumped up low end stink, IMHO!

Simply put, the files, and associated playback gear available now sound VERY good, and this, combined with the availabilty of source material made music fun again, inspiring, and you can do as much with it as an individuals imagination and creativity allow.

We had a blast this year with Serato, and music is alive, and kickin hard!

IT WORKS!

You've heard vinyl records that weren't mastered? What were they?

I'm down with technology, but at some point skill has to come into play, especially when you look at it from a musician's standpoint. I've been playing drums since 1977. To this day there is NO drumset that gets more respect than John Bonham's set of the early '70s. Eventually we'll get to a point where there are so many dj's using labtops that cats with vinyl will get more attention. I've already seen this happen in Williamsburg Brooklyn.

[reese 60615]

mix your own stars

[the crackhouse]

Never could mix any CDjs or MP3 playas, so I will stick to vynil.
Hands on vynil is the only way I can do anything, I can feel the CDjs thing, but I would like to give serato or scratch a try.
Whatever, you can be sure hardware is not going to wreck unless you have an electricity problem...

Last time I played CDs (I own like 50 MP3s in bad compression) I did it Geezercuso style, from start to end with no blend, with 2 laptops...

Idance

[O'love]

First... DJing is not beat matching.

Second... beatmatching two house records is so easy, I can usually teach newcomers to do it within minutes.

Third... it really isn't any easier to blend songs on CDs and computers than vinyl. If you think this is some big blending crutch, you haven't played across formats.

Fourth... "no looping or editing"?!? You don't think people were doing this with vinyl?

Finally... "survivng" in this game has little to do with technology... aside from the fact that you can now be broke and still have a huge collection of (stolen) music.

1000% agree!
It's simple, whatever medium you use, just DON'T SUCK! ;)

[Mizzmeme]

Aught to B a shamed of themselves and where the hell did they put their roots.. It must be a weave.

Alright now, WEAVE is another subject,lol!

[Martin Red]

But no one's really answered the question......What percentage would last or continue to be true to the game? I don't believe many would..... maybe because of convenience or just plain lack of vinyl whatever the reason...... I don't believe many would survive.

I reckon about 10%

"I am the one in ten
A number on a list
I am the one in ten
Even though I don`t exist
Nobody knows me
Even though i`m always there
A statistic, a reminder
Of a world that doesn`t care"

[pirahnahead]

I won't argue that vinyl sound, properly mastered does have a great sound.

But, the great pressing plants of yesterday are where today? And, also, the great mix and mastering engineers are either retired or dead! And the ones that are still here, won't work if they can't get paid!

I have alot of vinyl, and ALOT of the vinyl from the last few years of vinyl REALLY being available, sounded terrible. Not because vinyl is lower in quality, either. Simply because IT WAS NOT MADE PROPERLY!

Then, just the availability of product became an issue, a BIG issue! There just are NOT enough titles available on vinyl to really KEEP IT GOING!

Of course, sound quality is a factor, and a HUGE factor for me, BUT, I kid you not, I got great results using Serato and a laptop! Now, I heard serato thru a macbook Pro 17, with a TOTL high speed HD, and it gets better. And I think Traktor sounds EVEN better still.

And, I think that the approach to systems, and said voicing of systems, require one to do things a bit differently than what we used to do to extract optimal results from vinyl!So, it takes off from this point, if one does what they need to do!

I did not miss being at a record store and having the sales clerks say NO WE DON'T HAVE IT!

WE NEED TO HAVE AVAILABLE MUSIC CATALOG TOO!

And vinyl does not have the availabilty as it once did! I need more than 10 records!

I ain't gon' sit here and act like I NEVER download any mp3s - I love how traxsource, beatport and many others keep this game alive!...and Once upon a time I even thought about using serato, i did, but I couldn't hold on to the thought very long...There ARE record pressing plants left, HERE IN DETROIT!..and we did have THE BEST MASTERING GUY there was.. (RON MURPHY R.I.P). It comes down to one thing, If I don't sell wax, I DON'T EAT! I OWN A RECORD LABEL!, and there are so many of us that are starvin because some kids wanted to "share" a record for free via a blog site....Not that I have never gripped a "rarity" from a blog - No one is "innocent" unless they don't own a computer, or have minimal internet skills. My point is: Most who have serato wouldn't know what to do with FIVE records, let alone ten! Like, There is NO LOOP Function, U only get whatever intro to the record there is - And that's it. (Remember Practicing that mix with the two new records you bought, or when you bought your first TRAX, or JES SAY release? or better yet -
MUUUSIC TAKES YOU AAAAWAY!
MUUUUUSIC TAKES YOU AAAAWAY!) - a lot of kids nowadays don't know about that, MAN!!!
Most who are buying serato pretty much are WAAAAAAAAAY younger than myself, and a lot of us others out here, who feed our families and ourselves with the sales of VINYL RECORDS! and even after we've pressed them, and sold what limited amount we can, we get bootlegged from those via blogs, or vinyl pressers outside of our Homelands.. I live for this music in it's purity as much as anybody, and it's really about the dancers because they are the most important people in this..but we the DJs, especially us lazy ones (yeah I'm talkin about myself too, I play Records AND CDs) who don't want to carry 2 flightcases of wax and pay for luggage weight 2 rock a party for little to none, JUST so the people can enjoy it - WE are the ones who suffer...The Producers who put that little thank you note in the credits - HE/SHE suffers, cause an MP3 is a file, and intangible, something that will last a lifetime but won't give as many memories as when U look at THAT little scratch and know EXACTLY how it got there, and how to make that skip work in your set! Real talk... but the digital age is good - HELL, WHATEVER KEEPS US HOUSEHEADS AS INSANE AS WE ARE, I'M DOWN FOR IT!

Agree or Disagree - You're Still Loved!

P

[OneMasterMixer]

We had the Clubman also, then we had that silver AST mixer. Remember that one? YEAH, AST ASSKICKERS! I thought EVERYONE HAD THOSE! Gauss loaded, they DID kick, too! Altec Voice Of The Theater, and CROWN AMPS! And JBL horns and tweeters. In 1978, we got our first Bozak mixer, and on weekends when the other kids were playing football, I was playing records, at Eldorado, who had time for sports?

Those days were FUN!

Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you just brought back so many memories.

AST asssKickers were off the hhok. We used to go to the store in lower Soho and drool over the those speaker systems.

remember the tweeters that were home made in a square. They always hung above the dance floor in the middle. When the DJ really wanted to on songs like "I found love (now that I have found you) where the highs peaked..he would drop everything but those highs and they would scream with beauty.

Thanks for the memories :thumbsup:

[OneMasterMixer]

Alright now, WEAVE is another subject,lol!

You know I loves ya right :biggrinangel:

[OneMasterMixer]

Vinyl is that that thing old folks use on furniture?.......:lol:.....But for real I would have to go out and start buying vinyl and then learn how to mix on it but I would do it cause I love to make people dance....:thumbsup:


Damn noobie!!! :tongueout:

I would say buy Serato and 2 turntables and get started.

[Coach Biskit]

i dont care how you play the music, just beat it and beat it hard! that's my relaxation!:biggrin:

:acclaim:

[Coach Biskit]

Most of those that are "loyal" to wax don't have to lug it out of their bedrooms. They are maintaining......JMJ

:acclaim: Again!!!

[Martin Red]

i dont care how you play the music, just beat it and beat it hard! that's my relaxation!:biggrin:


this could also apply to having a wank.

[KragShot]

Interesting point. It shows some cats couldn't even call themselves dj's without technology allowing them to do so.

When I was with the organization and we put this contest together, this happened because our event residents kept getting challenged and insulted by all of these no-talent hacks who kept claiming that they were better than we were. All of the residents for our event are/were established veterans of the art who have all played out and done real work.

So, we decided to just tell them to "put up or shut up." The dreaded "software rule" was put in place to simply put these posers in their place. They could use whatever method they wanted for their preliminary submitted mixes, but for the semi-finals, the only software allowed was Final Scratch/Scratch Live (we added Torq last year).

We had a good number protest right away and our answer was simply: "We don't use that stuff to mix live (or in production). If you're better than us, then why is that a problem?"

Then to end this nonsense, we allowed the most vocal of those guys (who just happened to also have submitted a pretty good promo mix) to show up at the show and battle live against one of our residents (DJ OPM) to champion the cause of "software mixers." If he beat OPM in a live battle, then we would change our stance for the next year's contest. In addition, we would allow the winner to be completely decided by the crowd (using an audio level meter)- no judges.

The kid showed up with Traktor and just pushed a button, launching his pre-programmed set and stood behind his computer screen and the decks looking smug, like his victory was already a done decision. OPM slaughtered this guy easily. Between his selection, showmanship, tricking, and skill; it was pretty horrid the way that OPM destroyed this guy. To make matters worse, the kid even fouled up two blends in his pre-programmed set.

We did one more software vs. live challenge that night; this one was an impromptu challenge. Because I was the moderator on point on the forums, I was the one called out. So, I went up with no prepared set against another kid who was using Mixmeister. I was feeling more than a bit cocky, so I told the kid and the audience that I wasn't even going to cater to the crowd with my genre selection. Rather than playing tech house and current club tracks, I was going to battle strictly on talent and technique, using old school music.

I did a straight classic set, coming out of the gate with IRT's "Watch the Closing Doors" and ending with "Once Upon A Time" by John Rocca. He went on first and had a decent selection of tracks, but I bled him out six tracks into my set, using a classic acapella blend/mashup; "You Ain't Really Down" by Status IV laid over Kraftwerk's "Numbers (CD looped so it wouldn't go into "Computer World")." I wanted to talk to the kid afterwards and talk to him because he had some knowledge; he just needed some mentoring, but he walked off in a funk before my set was finished.

This only proved to me that while there is nothing wrong with technology, you still need a solid foundation in the basics to be able do the job properly.

[KragShot]

Well Terry let me correct myself by saying some computer programs and some decks give you more of an advantage...... especially with the bpm being read for you...... so in a way it is a "Crutch" because you can kinda cheat matching the bpm's together.

But I guess its just more of a conveneice because there are those that sit and count the bpms and write it on their records. I've seen it alot in the record stores.


There are mixers out now (most of your upper to high-end models) that have built-in BPM clocks. That's no different than the interface that Serato provides, so how is that a cheat, when the mixer BPM meters are not?

Now, there are software applications that do take a lot of the guesswork out of cataloging and indexing your music. The best of those out there (IMHO) is "Mixed In Key," followed by "Tag and Rename." I use both of those to help me out and take some of the guesswork out of indexing my tracks.

But none of these are cheats. Technology is a tool in the right hands and a crutch in the wrong ones; but the cream always rises to the top.

[dj kelvin]

Damn noobie!!! :tongueout:

I would say buy Serato and 2 turntables and get started.

When you giving me your creditr card so I can go shopping?.......:rofl5:

[Martin Red]

but the cream always rises to the top.

........and gets licked up by some pussy

[Martin Red]

Technology is a tool
....that's cuts through community like a hot knife through butter.

[Scott Fitlin]

You've heard vinyl records that weren't mastered? What were they?

I'm down with technology, but at some point skill has to come into play, especially when you look at it from a musician's standpoint. I've been playing drums since 1977. To this day there is NO drumset that gets more respect than John Bonham's set of the early '70s. Eventually we'll get to a point where there are so many dj's using labtops that cats with vinyl will get more attention. I've already seen this happen in Williamsburg Brooklyn.Listen to records produced from 1998 to 2003 vs records produced in the 80,s to 93.

Skill? Of course skill comes into play, and just as some were more skilled with their vinyl than others, so to, are some more skilled with laptops and software programs than others. A great DJ still puts thought into program and selection, no? I mean there is still a difference, to a DJ whose night, or set plods along, steadily thumping, but going nowhere, and a DJ whose set/night flows seamlessly, uplifting, endless journey in which the hours fly by like seconds! You know, when yoiu have one of those MAGICAL nights, and you blink your eyes, and actully six hours have gone by, but it feels like it was only ten seconds?

Someone said " Talent, NOT Technology " or some such statement, and I say " Think about what someone with Talent can DO with TECHNOLOGY "!!!

Now, IF technology is the bad word here, and ALL todays electronics based music media, AND music producing media are ca-ca, because electronics have been a HUGE part of dance music since the early 80,s. Drum machines, sampling and emulating keyboards, etc!

OTOH, ever hear of Yanni? Not dance music, but the man is a one man electronic orchestra! His symphonic compositions are technology made, but talent he has, get a Yanni CD and LISTEN to him perform!

How many of todays dance music producers would even be producers IF we had no computers?

Vinyl? YES, it has a certain charm. I grew up on vinyl, played vinyl, I lived vinyl. But, we will never see the return of vinyl as the king of playback formats, as it once was. COST will dictate here. And producing vinyl simply costs too much nowadays. And although vinyl will always have it's niche market, we will never see full scale vinyl production, like we had in the past! And there was also an art to making proper sounding vinyl, an art that is NOT what the industry is concentrating on, anymore, so, I choose NOT to play the very limited amounts of 4th rate vinyl available today!

And here we all are, spitting on technology, and you know what else? TODAY, everyone is a DJ, and the TECHNOLOGY is what even ALLOWED many into the game, at all! Why? because 25 years ago, 1983, before the advent of the computer and associated music producing sofware, producing music was EXPENSIVE, studio time COSTS MOOLAH!

Audio! IF NOT for TECHNOLOGY, many of you could NOT have the systems you do. Lets talk about mobile guys, bedroom DJ,s and EVEN some clubs, and their small but loud and lightweight systems for a minute! 25 years ago, the technology to produce lightweight, small sized, high power, low AC current draw, and INEXPENSIVE GEAR had not yet been invented! We didnt have $399.00, 1000 watt per channel ECONOMY Crown and QSC amplifiers. Power was expensive, HEAVY and LARGE, and required lots of AC electrical power. Speakers to make BIG sound were also HUGE, HEAVY, AND EXPENSIVE! VERY! What would guys do if they needed 12 to 14 amplifiers that weighed in the 80 to 120 lb range, with EACH amplifier requiring it's own dedicated 30amp breaker and receptacle? Simply put, todays technology is what makes possible the economically priced, small size, high power, electrically efficient, and lightweight gear even possible to be produced!

I LOVE BIG SPEAKERS, but, my system stays where it plays, how many of you would like to move stacks like mine 2 or 3 times a week? It would get ugly, and tiresome.

Technology IS what opened up the avenue of CAN DO to everyone!

[emuzik]

Thats no problem got a collection of 8800 piceses of vinyl.

[Scott Fitlin]

Thats no problem got a collection of 8800 piceses of vinyl.And a crew of ten guys to move it for ya!

ROTFLMAO!

[OneMasterMixer]

When you giving me your creditr card so I can go shopping?.......:rofl5:

SURE ANYTHING I CAN DO TO SUPPORT. JUST WATCH THE SPENDING LIMIT

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj95/onemastermixer/CREDIT-CARD-large.jpg

[Scott Fitlin]

Hey One, I printed that out, I'm going to Canal Hi Fi right away!

I figure out of the eight new Crown Macro Tech i series I am buying, DHP can treat me to four, OK?

Thanks bro, and MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and your fam!

ROTFLMAO, hard!

[pirahnahead]

There are mixers out now (most of your upper to high-end models) that have built-in BPM clocks. That's no different than the interface that Serato provides, so how is that a cheat, when the mixer BPM meters are not?

Now, there are software applications that do take a lot of the guesswork out of cataloging and indexing your music. The best of those out there (IMHO) is "Mixed In Key," followed by "Tag and Rename." I use both of those to help me out and take some of the guesswork out of indexing my tracks.

But none of these are cheats. Technology is a tool in the right hands and a crutch in the wrong ones; but the cream always rises to the top.

See - What I'm talking about is the LOVE of the CRAFT! I Used to count bpms by watching a clock, Which Helped me in Math Class....and programs like "mixed in key" take away all the fun.. (the only thing i can say about mixed in key that may be good is that it may actually be an aid in teaching someone which key they are in anyways.) Knowing that one record is not in the same key as another and MAKING IT WORK, now that's where the magic is... or just Marking the Key on the record or another record it works with,...

[OneMasterMixer]

Hey One, I printed that out, I'm going to Canal Hi Fi right away!

I figure out of the eight new Crown Macro Tech i series I am buying, DHP can treat me to four, OK?

Thanks bro, and MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and your fam!

ROTFLMAO, hard!


Bbwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

can't....breeeeve.........lmao

:rofl5::rofl5::rofl5:

[Jay Rags]

Sometimes when I read all the statements from time to time against technological advances in dj entertainment it just makes me want to do this: :)
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/56/l_ffd5f760b7ac4ba7986ccd343f1fb34c.gif

I bet old basketball players from the 1950's are still talking about how these new basketball players have these Nike tennis shoes so they play better.

Having said that, I still :) have to buy vinyl. Afterall, I got to stay on top of those Shelter and DFA releases.

[KragShot]

See - What I'm talking about is the LOVE of the CRAFT! I Used to count bpms by watching a clock, Which Helped me in Math Class....and programs like "mixed in key" take away all the fun.. (the only thing i can say about mixed in key that may be good is that it may actually be an aid in teaching someone which key they are in anyways.) Knowing that one record is not in the same key as another and MAKING IT WORK, now that's where the magic is... or just Marking the Key on the record or another record it works with,...

Whatever it takes to get your kicks. Everybody doesn't like math. I love rocketry to death, but I have always hated doing parabolic and trajectory equations.

Counting BPMs and Key-indexing are not my idea of fun. I learned to do it because it was part of what you had to do in order to do this properly.

Tools...that is all that these things are. Tools to help us do our job properly. Stop hating on the hammer because you prefer to pound nails with a rock.

[rob_s]

Why are you moaning about lifting crates of vinyl? Surely you can split them up into smaller boxes so as to be easier on your poor little muscles? How many records would you take to a gig anyway? I have only ever brought one box anyway...

[MusicFilter]

99% Lets not get it twisted we never stopped playing vinyl we just stopped carrying it around…… lol..!!!!!!!!!!!!


True, true.

[Prince HiFi]

fuck all the bs...
...I got over 200,000 songs on my 5 hardrives AND I STILL GET DRUNK BEFORE I DJ.....TEST ME! YES I WILL SURVIVE!

Wow 200,000 songs at avg. $1.99 a download, that's $800,000 in suhpport for this thing we call MPFREEs, who sez house is broke?

[Scott Fitlin]

Wow 200,000 songs at avg. $1.99 a download, that's $800,000 in suhpport for this thing we call MPFREEs, who sez house is broke?Umm, 200,000 X $1.99 = $398,000 on my calculator.

May I suggest you get some new batteries for yours, this xmas?

I'm jus sayin!

LOL!

[Chris Wood]

i don't have a single bit of vinyl...

will i survive? I'm pretty sure I will, technology moves forwards not backwards...

[Martin Red]

Sometimes when I read all the statements from time to time against technological advances in dj entertainment it just makes me want to........


..........wonder why the format and technology hasn't really added fuck all to the music, except discussions about formats, which are useless pieces of wordage.

we have lots of formats now, but all these formats are still repuking up the sound of yester year, re-edited scene over and over like advert, everytime some new box with a light comes out, we get every piece of music re-released from yester year, the format is more important than what's on it.

Ourt analaogue TV aerials get turned off soon, everyone will have to connect to Digital aerials instead, this upgrade hasn't put any better programs on the box, just longer adverts and shitter programs, upgrade doesn't mean improvement.

Like saying DVD, Blu Ray the saviour of films, it fucking aint.

Don't beleive the hype.

[Martin Red]

technology moves forwards not backwards...


Do you playt re-edits ?

[Moksha]

Wow 200,000 songs at avg. $1.99 a download, that's $800,000 in suhpport for this thing we call MPFREEs, who sez house is broke?

Stealing artists music... now THAT's house!

[jojaujae3]

99% Lets not get it twisted we never stopped playing vinyl we just stopped carrying it around…… lol..!!!!!!!!!!!!


And you never lied with this statement here!

:biggrin:

[JMJ]

Wow 200,000 songs at avg. $1.99 a download, that's $800,000 in suhpport for this thing we call MPFREEs, who sez house is broke?

I could be wrong, but I'd bet the major investment here was the 5 hard drives......JMJ :biggrin:

[HOUSE MIKE FEVA]

Wow 200,000 songs at avg. $1.99 a download, that's $800,000 in suhpport for this thing we call MPFREEs, who sez house is broke?

Is called being a member of several MP3 (RECORD POOLS) and ripping from WAX and CDS that I purchased previously...I dont just play HOUSE MUSIC...I play EVERYTHING!

[KragShot]

All of this technology did something wonderful; if made music production accessible to the masses. Music making was once one of those things that only a few people could only dream of doing. Now that computers are far more common place, all you need is one of those and software that costs less than a traditional instrument.

You can make a home studio now for the fraction of the cost of a piece of traditional studio equipment.

"MPFrees;" that's really interesting.

There were tons of DJs who got over on their collections alone, without any real skill and talent. If you had access to money and connections, you could get those "rare" tracks, and blow people away with music that few to nobody had ever even heard; not to mention being able to get their hands on it.

That is a crutch that has taken away; that part of the playing field has been leveled. Like it or not, the genie has escaped the bottle. Pandora's box has been opened and there's no getting the contents back into it ever again.

So are we going to just sit and complain about it, or are we going to make it work the best way we can.

[bigshawn]

All of this technology did something wonderful; if made music production accessible to the masses. Music making was once one of those things that only a few people could only dream of doing. Now that computers are far more common place, all you need is one of those and software that costs less than a traditional instrument.

You can make a home studio now for the fraction of the cost of a piece of traditional studio equipment.

"MPFrees;" that's really interesting.

There were tons of DJs who got over on their collections alone, without any real skill and talent. If you had access to money and connections, you could get those "rare" tracks, and blow people away with music that few to nobody had ever even heard; not to mention being able to get their hands on it.

That is a crutch that has taken away; that part of the playing field has been leveled. Like it or not, the genie has escaped the bottle. Pandora's box has been opened and there's no getting the contents back into it ever again.

So are we going to just sit and complain about it, or are we going to make it work the best way we can.
Great Post!!!!