Are we as Black people our own worst enemy??

[richierich]

Or is it the powers that be that have us in the postion we are in OR is it a little bit of both. We can find a million things that are done to us by others but what about what we do to ourselves and don't do for ourselves. Who's responsible for the shit we go through?? For how many hundreds of years and still to this day??

[Jamie 3:26]

Honestly,the man in the mirror.I will say that there is a system,and it is set-up messed up for black folks,but there are ways to learn the system and manipulate it.I can not place all of the blame ofn "the man"...that's a cop-out.you only get done to you what you allow.

Instead of being tough guys for the wrong damn reasons,we need folks to be tough guys for the right thing.

I can really go deep with this,but time permits me from doing so.I will reply on this,in depth tonite.

[richierich]

Cool Jaimie..I'm interested to see what others think.
Peace

[Bold Soul]

Please see my irate ramblings at: http://deephousepage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=041756

I'll be in Chicago briefly after the holidays in case anyone wants to fight. Carry on.

[ December 04, 2003, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Danny Gardner ]

[däp]

on the whole, no.

[richierich]

I know we sure do challenge each other but noone else.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by t o r i n:
on the whole, no. I agree with torin. Blacks aren't just their own worst enemy. "We" fuck shit up for a lot of other people as well.

[ December 04, 2003, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Danny Gardner ]

[And]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by t o r i n:
on the whole, no. I agree with torin. Blacks aren't just their own worst enemy. "We" fuck shit up for a lot of other people as well. </font>[/QUOTE]I do believe that's Black people not Blacks.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by 6 23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by t o r i n:
on the whole, no. I agree with torin. Blacks aren't just their own worst enemy. "We" fuck shit up for a lot of other people as well. </font>[/QUOTE]I do believe that's Black people not Blacks. </font>[/QUOTE]I'll see your "black people" and raise you a "colored".

[And]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by t o r i n:
on the whole, no. I agree with torin. Blacks aren't just their own worst enemy. "We" fuck shit up for a lot of other people as well. </font>[/QUOTE]I do believe that's Black people not Blacks. </font>[/QUOTE]I'll see your "black people" and raise you a "colored". </font>[/QUOTE]No raising there. Black people beat "colored" easy.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by 6 23:
No raising there. Black people beat "colored" easy. http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/2587/saphir1j.jpg

"Shole do!"

[däp]

stay black!

[däp]

Originally posted by richierich:
Or is it the powers that be that have us in the postion we are in OR is it a little bit of both. We can find a million things that are done to us by others but what about what we do to ourselves and don't do for ourselves. Who's responsible for the shit we go through?? For how many hundreds of years and still to this day?? seriously. i know a lot of blacks who are doing really well. this question is way too broad in scope.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by t o r i n:
stay black! http://www.cnn.com/US/OJ/suspect/suspect.gif

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by t o r i n:
stay black! http://www.cnn.com/US/OJ/suspect/suspect.gif </font>[/QUOTE]I am dying over here. graemlins/lol.gif

[shanequa sanchez]

seriously though...why is it that only blacks get asked these kinds of questions? what...white people don't have messed up things about them that warrants the whole race to be questioned?
i know i'm new here...but it irks me when blacks, or any minority for that matter, has to time and time again, question, explain, confirm, legitimate their own existence and the choices they make and the impact these choices have and we never question whites about their stuff...
your question is valid..as long as we understand that for "black" to exist "white" does also...

[i.be.me]

Originally posted by neco:
seriously though...why is it that only blacks get asked these kinds of questions? what...white people don't have messed up things about them that warrants the whole race to be questioned?
i know i'm new here...but it irks me when blacks, or any minority for that matter, has to time and time again, question, explain, confirm, legitimate their own existence and the choices they make and the impact these choices have and we never question whites about their stuff...
your question is valid..as long as we understand that for "black" to exist "white" does also... i am hoping that this is all a joke, which is why i've been quiet on the past few threads of this nature, but just in case...

good point neco.

the reason is simple and quite obvious: racism & internalized racism, but i'm suspect you knew that already. smile.gif

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by i.be.me:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by neco:
seriously though...why is it that only blacks get asked these kinds of questions? what...white people don't have messed up things about them that warrants the whole race to be questioned?
i know i'm new here...but it irks me when blacks, or any minority for that matter, has to time and time again, question, explain, confirm, legitimate their own existence and the choices they make and the impact these choices have and we never question whites about their stuff...
your question is valid..as long as we understand that for "black" to exist "white" does also... i am hoping that this is all a joke, which is why i've been quiet on the past few threads of this nature, but just in case...

good point neco.

the reason is simple and quite obvious: racism & internalized racism, but i'm suspect you knew that already. smile.gif </font>[/QUOTE]By the time you're both somewhere near Star Member status, you'll see that threads like these happen nearly each day with no actual result.

Funny if anyone's noticing, why don't the habitual contrarians post counterpoints in the black self-loathing threads, hm?

Too busy in the police beating thread giving the cops the benefit of the doubt I guess.

[Friday]

Originally posted by richierich:
Or is it the powers that be that have us in the postion we are in OR is it a little bit of both. We can find a million things that are done to us by others but what about what we do to ourselves and don't do for ourselves. Who's responsible for the shit we go through?? For how many hundreds of years and still to this day?? You know Richie, I had so many answers to your questions but I did not know where to begin.

All I can say is, if you see color, you will be judged by color. If you look in the mirror and color is all you see, you will have inherited decades upon decades of old history.

Responsibility lies within yourself to look beyond your own predjudices and racial outlook, to look beyond past and present abuses, to look beyond what you think is right or wrong, and to have the courage to see ALL for what it is, not for what you want it to be or think it should/could/would be.

What we teach the future generations from now on, will either be based upon the old or a new outlook. Who is responsible now?

peace
gf

[mhd]

Originally posted by neco:
seriously though...why is it that only blacks get asked these kinds of questions? what...white people don't have messed up things about them that warrants the whole race to be questioned?
i know i'm new here...but it irks me when blacks, or any minority for that matter, has to time and time again, question, explain, confirm, legitimate their own existence and the choices they make and the impact these choices have and we never question whites about their stuff...
your question is valid..as long as we understand that for "black" to exist "white" does also... word, can't leave white folks out of the self-loathing festival

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by neco:
seriously though...why is it that only blacks get asked these kinds of questions? what...white people don't have messed up things about them that warrants the whole race to be questioned?
i know i'm new here...but it irks me when blacks, or any minority for that matter, has to time and time again, question, explain, confirm, legitimate their own existence and the choices they make and the impact these choices have and we never question whites about their stuff...
your question is valid..as long as we understand that for "black" to exist "white" does also... word, can't leave white folks out of the self-loathing festival </font>[/QUOTE]Yea, but where's Jimmymack? Where's Konbit? Julian?! Why aren't you here providing some contrarian wisdom to THIS THREAD, hm?

I mean, even though its self-imposed, we're still blaming someone else based on race, right? Shouldn't you all be here giving BLACKS the benefit of the doubt?

Guess we need some PCP, eh Mark?

[i.be.me]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by neco:
seriously though...why is it that only blacks get asked these kinds of questions? what...white people don't have messed up things about them that warrants the whole race to be questioned?
i know i'm new here...but it irks me when blacks, or any minority for that matter, has to time and time again, question, explain, confirm, legitimate their own existence and the choices they make and the impact these choices have and we never question whites about their stuff...
your question is valid..as long as we understand that for "black" to exist "white" does also... word, can't leave white folks out of the self-loathing festival </font>[/QUOTE]Yea, but where's Jimmymack? Where's Konbit? Julian?! Why aren't you here providing some contrarian wisdom to THIS THREAD, hm?

I mean, even though its self-imposed, we're still blaming someone else based on race, right? Shouldn't you all be here giving BLACKS the benefit of the doubt?

Guess we need some PCP, eh Mark? </font>[/QUOTE]quoting the minister from my mother's church...

"HELLO SOMEBODY!"

[la verde]

Originally posted by Jamie 3:26:
...there are ways to learn the system and manipulate it... It's thinking like that that brings a smile.gif to my face!

[jimmymack-2000]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Yea, but where's Jimmymack? Where's Konbit? Julian?! Why aren't you here providing some contrarian wisdom to THIS THREAD, hm?

I mean, even though its self-imposed, we're still blaming someone else based on race, right? Shouldn't you all be here giving BLACKS the benefit of the doubt?

Guess we need some PCP, eh Mark? I'm here. Out of all the horrible injustices inflicted on people since we've been keeping record, whites are no doubt responsible for the overwhelming majority (do accurate figures even exist?). Europe's population in the early-1600s--the beginning of the age of mercantilism and, consequently, colonization on a major scale--was only 100 million. I would definitely not bet against anyone who would venture that Europeans killed 100 million people in Africa, Asia and the New World in the first half of the 1600s alone.

Some of you may disagree with me, but on most university and college campuses (and in many, albeit fewer, high schools), students of all stripes are educated about the evils of exploitative colonialism, the various misguided attempts by western Christianity to convert brown people abroad who were happy doing their own thing, etc. As a white man, I am well aware of what my forefathers have done, and I bear the shame of this legacy. While many (thankfully, I don't think a majority--at least from my personal experience) whites choose to believe that these days are over, a sizable number are aware they aren't--even though they haven't experienced contemporary aspects of racism themselves.

To tell the truth, I find it painful to read some of these posts asking: "Why is this still happening to us? Are we to blame for the small-business loans and mortgages we don't get, the beatings we endure at the hands of police, etc.?" It hurts to see people who have suffered so much blaming themselves for being victimized. Is it necessary? I don't really feel qualified to offer an opinion on the matter, but I hope it helps in some way.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Yea, but where's Jimmymack? Where's Konbit? Julian?! Why aren't you here providing some contrarian wisdom to THIS THREAD, hm?

I mean, even though its self-imposed, we're still blaming someone else based on race, right? Shouldn't you all be here giving BLACKS the benefit of the doubt?

Guess we need some PCP, eh Mark? I'm here. Out of all the horrible injustices inflicted on people since we've been keeping record, whites are no doubt responsible for the overwhelming majority (do accurate figures even exist?). Europe's population in the early-1600s--the beginning of the age of mercantilism and, consequently, colonization on a major scale--was only 100 million. I would definitely not bet against anyone who would venture that Europeans killed 100 million people in Africa, Asia and the New World in the first half of the 1600s alone.

Some of you may disagree with me, but on most university and college campuses (and in many, albeit fewer, high schools), students of all stripes are educated about the evils of exploitative colonialism, the various misguided attempts by western Christianity to convert brown people abroad who were happy doing their own thing, etc. As a white man, I am well aware of what my forefathers have done, and I bear the shame of this legacy. While many (thankfully, I don't think a majority--at least from my personal experience) whites choose to believe that these days are over, a sizable number are aware they aren't--even though they haven't experienced contemporary aspects of racism themselves.

To tell the truth, I find it painful to read some of these posts asking: "Why is this still happening to us? Are we to blame for the small-business loans and mortgages we don't get, the beatings we endure at the hands of police, etc.?" It hurts to see people who have suffered so much blaming themselves for being victimized. Is it necessary? I don't really feel qualified to offer an opinion on the matter, but I hope it helps in some way. </font>[/QUOTE]I just wanted to see if you were watching.

I dig you, man. You can bring it when you wanna.

[jimmymack-2000]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
I just wanted to see if you were watching.

I dig you, man. You can bring it when you wanna. Thanks Danny. I have the utmost respect for you, mhd, eargasm, and everyone else here on DHP, and I defer to your experiences in this matter. I know the world isn't a perfect place--fortunately for me, unfortunately for many of you, I don't know it as intimately as some.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
I just wanted to see if you were watching.

I dig you, man. You can bring it when you wanna. Thanks Danny. I have the utmost respect for you, mhd, eargasm, and everyone else here on DHP, and I defer to your experiences in this matter. I know the world isn't a perfect place--fortunately for me, unfortunately for many of you, I don't know it as intimately as some. </font>[/QUOTE]Twice in an evening? Careful - you'll get a nosebleed. ;)

Man, its about INCLUSION! That's BOLD SOUL's core ethic. Not homogenization or assimilation but to allow all to enter as they are and experiencing the value forthwith.

You and MHD, side by side, completes a circuit from which the power of insight leads to change. All we're missing among the great minds here is THE UNIFICATION OF INTENTION.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
I just wanted to see if you were watching.

I dig you, man. You can bring it when you wanna. Thanks Danny. I have the utmost respect for you, mhd, eargasm, and everyone else here on DHP, and I defer to your experiences in this matter. I know the world isn't a perfect place--fortunately for me, unfortunately for many of you, I don't know it as intimately as some. </font>[/QUOTE]Twice in an evening? Careful - you'll get a nosebleed. ;)

Man, its about INCLUSION! That's BOLD SOUL's core ethic. Not homogenization or assimilation but to allow all to enter as they are and experiencing the value forthwith.

You and MHD, side by side, completes a circuit from which the power of insight leads to change. All we're missing among the great minds here is THE UNIFICATION OF INTENTION. </font>[/QUOTE]respect, fellas,

[MusicFilter]

It started early. What other race of people had so many enslaved by so few. We just aren't down for each other as we should. I have nothing but respect for Jewish people, they overcame their biggest obstacles together and are very successful. Not that we are not, but we don't look out for each other for various reasons.

I would go further into it, but I don't want to be misunderstood (as I usually am here).

I will say that we are our own worst enemies because we are too busy looking out for ourselves at times. Unless there is something in it for many of use we won't lend a helping hand to assist one another.

[richierich]

Is it somewhere in the bible that explains why and how it is the way it is ( The children of Israel)????..Just asking again.
Peace

[MYOR]

Originally posted by richierich:
Is it somewhere in the bible that explains why and how it is the way it is ( The children of Israel)????..Just asking again.
Peace The Bible... Stop reading that garbage&gt;&gt;&gt;

for all you GOD fearing people... YES I'M GOING TO HELL graemlins/cool_shades.gif

[ December 05, 2003, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: MYOR ]

[JR JAM]

Originally posted by richierich:
Is it somewhere in the bible that explains why and how it is the way it is ( The children of Israel)????..Just asking again.
Peace Read Deuteronomy Chapter 28.

[MusicFilter]

Originally posted by richierich:
Is it somewhere in the bible that explains why and how it is the way it is ( The children of Israel)????..Just asking again.
Peace I don't know where in the Bible that it will explain how and where we are today, but if you remember the movie "Moses" when he went up to be given the tablets by God. What happened? Everyone started dividing amongst themselves and some even fashioned a "God" they could worship.

Sometimes I feel like "we" are acting like those people.

And I know it's your opinion MYOR, but I don't consider the Bible garbage. What are you reading for guidance?

[MYOR]

Originally posted by chgodj3:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by richierich:
Is it somewhere in the bible that explains why and how it is the way it is ( The children of Israel)????..Just asking again.
Peace I don't know where in the Bible that it will explain how and where we are today, but if you remember the movie "Moses" when he went up to be given the tablets by God. What happened? Everyone started dividing amongst themselves and some even fashioned a "God" they could worship.

Sometimes I feel like "we" are acting like those people.

And I know it's your opinion MYOR, but I don't consider the Bible garbage. What are you reading for guidance? </font>[/QUOTE]Certainly not the bible.. I have always thought the bible is just a means to control people.. People who have the need for others to tell them what is right and wrong.

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by t o r i n:
on the whole, no. I agree with torin. Blacks aren't just their own worst enemy. "We" fuck shit up for a lot of other people as well. </font>[/QUOTE]I do believe that's Black people not Blacks. </font>[/QUOTE]I'll see your "black people" and raise you a "colored". </font>[/QUOTE]hail.gif

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by i.be.me:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by neco:
seriously though...why is it that only blacks get asked these kinds of questions? what...white people don't have messed up things about them that warrants the whole race to be questioned?
i know i'm new here...but it irks me when blacks, or any minority for that matter, has to time and time again, question, explain, confirm, legitimate their own existence and the choices they make and the impact these choices have and we never question whites about their stuff...
your question is valid..as long as we understand that for "black" to exist "white" does also... i am hoping that this is all a joke, which is why i've been quiet on the past few threads of this nature, but just in case...

good point neco.

the reason is simple and quite obvious: racism & internalized racism, but i'm suspect you knew that already. smile.gif </font>[/QUOTE]By the time you're both somewhere near Star Member status, you'll see that threads like these happen nearly each day with no actual result.

Funny if anyone's noticing, why don't the habitual contrarians post counterpoints in the black self-loathing threads, hm?

Too busy in the police beating thread giving the cops the benefit of the doubt I guess. </font>[/QUOTE]You're on fire!

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by richierich:
Is it somewhere in the bible that explains why and how it is the way it is ( The children of Israel)????..Just asking again.
Peace The Bible... Stop reading that garbage&gt;&gt;&gt;

for all you GOD fearing people... YES I'M GOING TO HELL graemlins/cool_shades.gif </font>[/QUOTE]I'm right there with you MYOR.

[shannoneileen]

wow... this is my first time in this thread...
it's hard to keep up with all the threads... they drop so quickly... i have to check the time in the right hand corner to see when was the last time someone posted... anyway, i digress...

i'm one of those 'we are the world' folk...
but when it comes to things political, i tend to root for the black man...

when an inarticulate black man is interviewed on the news... i do cringe...

a part of me wants to scream at every black person in the world who has internalized racism and say 'Wake the F up!!! Your life is worth more than that!!!'

the other part of me understands how feeling mentally... psychically... broke down, feels like, and i empathize... and understand, and accept just trying to make it...

to make a long story short... embracing the stereotypes... I'm 1/2 ghetto and 1/2 suburbian...

i want black folk to do better... be better... but i understand why sometimes that's so hard...

i just wish life were fair...

i didn't answer the question, did i?

i can't know graemlins/conf44.gif

[TonyB]

What Up Rich,

I think that you posed a very interesting question. I also think that the answer would be a little bit of both.

On the one hand, as a people, we (African Americans) are known for stickiing together to come to the aid of one of our own or for the betterment of the race (Civil Rights Movement). The fact that many of our parents & grandparents fought so hard (and some even losing their lives in the process) to make things better for their children (us) and future generations of Blacks is legendary and respected world-wide by right thinking individuals of all races. Our African brothers and sisters truly looked up to their Black American brothers and sisters as they galliantly fought for equal footing on these North American shores. Though the gains that we've made as a people are so easily overlooked now by many people (including many of our own), they are impressive non-the-less.

We will defend one-another to the bitter end (see O.J. Simpson/Michael Jackson --- just to name a couple) even if we ourselves have doubt about their guilt or innocence. We are like this, because since our people set foot in American, we have been treated as 'less-than...', and consequently have been unfairly treated in virtually every aspect of American society. However, our loyalty to one-another goes too far on one hand, and not far enough on the other. Case in point: the overwhelming majority of business both big and small in the Black community are owned by others. Many of the people openly show contempt for the people that they serve. However, if those businesses moved out, who would step up and fill the void? These other races of people are no more intelligent than we are, just a little more business savy. Most of the immigrants doing business in our community come from oppressed communities as well. However, do to the rights we (Black people) fought for, other people have been able to reap the benefits of our labor, without having to go through the struggle.

Unfortunately, once we received 'Civil Rights', it appeared that far too many of us couldn't wait to cross-over into the world of the 'majority' society in America, ie; shopping in white communities (because we feel that their stores provide us with a better product (which of course is not neccessarily true), or sending our children to majority white learning institutions (because of course, they have the best resources (some grain of truth there), and moving to predominately white neighborhoods. In our haste to assimilate, we neglected our own community. When our choices were few, and we were forced to live segregated from the majority society, we actually had more Black owned and operaated business than we do now. Today, you're hard pressed to spend your money patronizing your own, because our business presence in our community is next to nil.

We have done a wonderful job of economicaly empowering other races of people, yet will find many reasons not to shop/do business with our own. Example: if Keisha receives bad customer service at Carson Pirie Scott, she's more apt to just go down the street to Marshall Fields. However, if Keisha receives bas customer service at Leroys' tire shop, she'll more than likely go to Midas, because in her negative experience with Leroys' business, she feels justified in her thought process that 'Black' run business are all second-rate and there-fore undeserving of her dollars. She does not judge Leroys' business on an individual basis, but maligns all Black owned businesses because of her bad experience with him. In the Carsons/Fields example, she just substitues one white owned business with another, without giving it any thought. This is a huge problem within the thought process of our community --- that the White mans' ice is colder, so to speak. This is an area where our people need to be a lot more loyal to one another. If Leroys' business is not up to par for your standards --- TELL HIM. Make him aware of your concerns so that he may make the appropriate steps to rectify the situation in the future. While Leroy is getting his act together --- Go to Ray-Ray. Ray-Ray may offer the same service, but a much better experience. You give others who outwardly disrespect you the benefit of the doubt, yet refuse to do so with your own. That is our burden that we bare based on our history in this country. We were masterfully taught (see Willie Lynch) to despise and distrust everything about ourselves, yet look up to the majority society as being all perfect and wonderful.

On the other end of the spectrum, we show too much loyalty to the negative elements in our community. We are so quick to rally together in cases of police brutality against our own (and in many cases rightfully so), yet when the crime is black on black, you can hear the silence. We don't march against the 'thugs' in our community as they do damage to our kids, property, and community. Often times we know who they are. They are our friends, our neighbors, our brothers, our cousins, etc.. We need to hold our own people more accountable for the crap they do to us with the same intesity as we do when we feel mistreated by the majority community.

There are a small minority of people that we could really do without in the Black community. We should not be afraid to chastise or turn in our kids for their criminal behavior. Many parents know that their kids engage in negative or distructive behavior and hurt the Black community, yet will do nothing to set their child straight. They only open their mouths in defense of 'Pookie' when he gets roughed up by the police, despite the fact that he may have a rap-sheet 12 pages long. This is counter productive and certainly does not help our community in the least. Where were you when 'Pookie' was fucking-up to begin with??? Why didn't you try to straighten up your child when you first saw him going astray? These are things that we have control over. The only problem is that not enough of us excercise that authority. I can honestly say that if I would have been a fuck-up, my mom would have been all over my ass, as well as embarrassing me by telling all of my relatives about the crap that I did. If I were to have been involved in criminal activity, she would have been the first person to throw my ass out in the street, or depending on the severity of the crime --- turned me in. That is true love for the Black community. The ability to make tough decisions, even if it means standing against our own sons and daughters in the process, to make our communities safer and more economically independant.

[ December 05, 2003, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Tony Bracey ]

[the crackhouse]

You don't have to care about your skin color, let other people care about it. You can't accept to see you as "this-and-that" cause you have a specific skin color.

How many of you "black people" know from which part of africa they're rooted to ?
What' do you know about africa ?
Is "African American" a real world ? I mean I never seen or heard such BS in any other country in the whole world !!!
Are you African or american ?

Are you a minority ? NO ! The only minority is the native americans.

But now you're here on the US land, you don't have to consider yourself as a minority. Any citizen on this territory (except the native americans) is a citizen lambda.

In France, black people are not calling themselves "negro" or "black" or "coloured people". The only ones who do that are the ones who live in the... let's say "ghettos".
Why do they call theirselves this way ?
Because they imitate the black US gangsta rapper, that's all. Figure that ?

In Marseille, which is fronting the North African coast, the population is so melted that you couldn't say who's black, who's brown, who's Jack and who's Jacques. Centuries and centuries of immigration, volontary or slavery.
But it didn't last. Black people are just different in the fact that they are linked to their rituals, religions and traditions.

So, it seems that the African American has only one choice : getting of this appelation and move to his "human" status.

[shanequa sanchez]

oh brother...
well let me say something about being "human"...that too is a social construction...think about how it's been invoked and defined throughout history to exclude and include..let's see now... FOLKS WITH DARKER SKIN!!!
everytime i hear that "we're all human and that's all that matters" argument i get ill!!!
graemlins/puke.gif

[MusicFilter]

Rich check out these books I think they best tell the story where we went and often go wrong as a people.

ARE YOU STILL A SLAVE - SHAHARAZAD ALI

THE DESTRUCTION OF BLACK CIVILIZATION
- CHANCELLOR WILLIAMS

AFRICAN PEOPLE AND EUROPEAN HOLIDAYS, "A mentle genocide" - ISHAKAMUSA BARANSHANGO

HOW EUROPE UNDEVELOPED AFRICA - WALTER RODNEY

Some of these books might be hard to find, but believe me you'll be glad you found them.

[the crackhouse]

Originally posted by neco:
oh brother...
well let me say something about being "human"...that too is a social construction...think about how it's been invoked and defined throughout history to exclude and include..let's see now... FOLKS WITH DARKER SKIN!!!
everytime i hear that "we're all human and that's all that matters" argument i get ill!!!
graemlins/puke.gif Being human to include or exclude ?
I really don't get your point... And I didn't say that it matters that we were all humans, just said that if the color of your skin is a problem to you, it's only YOUR problem.
Oh! People are always behind the blackman's ass ?
Well, see in africa how is the white man seen in the eyes of the "black skined".
And if being human is a social construction, let me say that we surely, as humans, have more luck than any other mammals species.
We can act on our instincts and have a life to understand what we really are.
And being human is exactly the opposite of your argument (if I get it right) : making choices and act against any social construction if we wish to do so.
If you decide that the world is too strong and that you are definitly f**ked, well... It's not true !
To be proud is a very important thing to me, but I don't think it's something to share with other people, my they be of the same skincolor or sexual orientation or political ideas. Pride is personnal, and if it's not, it's a lie.
Get me wrong if i'm off point, but everyone is different and to share opinions or engage in a group action is just a part of us when we decide to do so. No one share the same essence.
That's being human.

IMO

[the crackhouse]

One more thing, when you say that it has been used to include or exclude, you give power to the more evil and stupid speech.
I can't admit this statement, it's just how fools and assholes acted, it's not the fruits of a real reflexion. Facts but not a reality "black people" should give importance to. Even in the hardest or violent situation and without any physicall freedom, the human spirit remains free.

I'll respond to the original subject : it's not the blackman who's his worse ennemy. It's the ability of believing what ever can be said about "blackness", would it be by black or unblack people.
French girls have bad breath : they eat cheese.
Mexicans are poor people : they are all farmers.
Americans are stupid : they watch too much TV.
Germans are racists : they've all been nazis.

Hey ! don't try to underestimate one's intelligence and foremost existence.


See my signature for further details.

[ December 05, 2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: idancetoomuch ]

[däp]

Tony, i really want to read what you wrote but you need to hit the return key every now and then! http://deephousepage.com/smilies/biglaugha.gif

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by idancetoomuch:
//-- it's not the blackman who's his worse ennemy. It's the ability of believing what ever can be said about "blackness", would it be by black or unblack people.--//This is going on the back of the next BOLD SOUL t-shirt.

[TonyB]

Originally posted by t o r i n:
Tony, i really want to read what you wrote but you need to hit the return key every now and then! http://deephousepage.com/smilies/biglaugha.gif Torin,

Please forgive me. I was in a rush to post this and take care of work at the same time. Check my post out now --- I've edited it. Let me know your thoughts.

Peace

[the crackhouse]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by idancetoomuch:
//-- it's not the blackman who's his worse ennemy. It's the ability of believing what ever can be said about "blackness", would it be by black or unblack people.--//This is going on the back of the next BOLD SOUL t-shirt. </font>[/QUOTE]OK Danny, let me rephrase this :
]//-- ™it's not the blackman who's his worse ennemy. It's ™ the ability of believing what ever can be said ™ about "blackness", would it be ™ by black or unblack people.--//™

[jimmymack-2000]

Came across an interesting quote just now:

"Oh, the holiness of always being the injured party. The historically oppressed can find not only sanctity but safety in the state of victimization. When access to a better life has been denied often enough, and successfully enough, one can use the rejection as an excuse to cease all efforts." — Maya Angelou, American author, Singin' and Swingin' and Gettin' Merry Like Christmas

[the crackhouse]

Tony, I have to say that this time I read your entire post.
The Midas/Leroy/RayRay example is fine.
In france, it's clear that racism is only conducted by ignorance and fear of the difference (Ooops sorry, same thing...).
Example, my grandma have travelled at the age of 72 for the first time of her life, to Casablanca, Marocco.
She came back and told us : "I never thought these people would be so gentle, giving hospitality, and they have a good hygiene, oh yes, they have a really good hygiene !"
Who is to blame in this example ?

a/The french society about marroccean immigrants ?

b/My Grandma for being so close minded ?

c/The immigrants for not keeping their way of life in trying to integrate in the french society ?

a/ The frenchs are all racist bastards, that's well known.
b/ My grandma should have meet some Maroccans in her lifetime before she judge them.
c/ If the immigrants have lost their way of life and integrated the frenchs ones, so the frenchs are dirty, unfriendly, dirty people.

What is integration worth ?
What level of integration has to be engaged to live happily in a foreign country ?
If people accept you in their country, does it mean you're welcome ?
America... who's country is this ?

[the crackhouse]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
Came across an interesting quote just now:

"Oh, the holiness of always being the injured party. The historically oppressed can find not only sanctity but safety in the state of victimization. When access to a better life has been denied often enough, and successfully enough, one can use the rejection as an excuse to cease all efforts." — Maya Angelou, American author, Singin' and Swingin' and Gettin' Merry Like Christmas Mmmh... Strangely, it's what shows up about the Jews so called conspiration, when you hear some white party negationists. (Negazionists ?)

[jimmymack-2000]

Originally posted by idancetoomuch:
Mmmh... Strangely, it's what shows up about the Jews so called conspiration, when you hear some white party negationists. (Negazionists ?) True in a sense: Jews have been victimized, but their "access to a better life" is well-documented. Israel boasts one of the fastest-growing economies in the world, despite the domestic unease...

[shannoneileen]

Originally posted by idancetoomuch:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by idancetoomuch:
//-- it's not the blackman who's his worse ennemy. It's the ability of believing what ever can be said about "blackness", would it be by black or unblack people.--//This is going on the back of the next BOLD SOUL t-shirt. </font>[/QUOTE]OK Danny, let me rephrase this :
]//-- ™it's not the blackman who's his worse ennemy. It's ™ the ability of believing what ever can be said ™ about "blackness", would it be ™ by black or unblack people.--//™ </font>[/QUOTE]lol... powerful quote...
p.s. can that be in the front?

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
Came across an interesting quote just now:

"Oh, the holiness of always being the injured party. The historically oppressed can find not only sanctity but safety in the state of victimization. When access to a better life has been denied often enough, and successfully enough, one can use the rejection as an excuse to cease all efforts." — Maya Angelou, American author, Singin' and Swingin' and Gettin' Merry Like Christmas We can close the thread now. Well done, jimmy.

[shannoneileen]

double post... sorry

[ December 05, 2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Shannon_Shawan ]

[shannoneileen]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
Came across an interesting quote just now:

"Oh, the holiness of always being the injured party. The historically oppressed can find not only sanctity but safety in the state of victimization. When access to a better life has been denied often enough, and successfully enough, one can use the rejection as an excuse to cease all efforts." — Maya Angelou, American author, Singin' and Swingin' and Gettin' Merry Like Christmas jimmymack! Ah... i'm gonna copy that, if you don't mind... i need a little reminder of my state of being when i'm feeling a little low and tread upon... when what i really wanna do is be more pro active and assertive... great contribution!

[E-Phi]

Originally posted by MYOR:
The Bible... Stop reading that garbage&gt;&gt;&gt;

for all you GOD fearing people... YES I'M GOING TO HELL graemlins/cool_shades.gif graemlins/rofl.gif You're just asking for it, huh? But then again all religious books are just parables to help one live in peace with society. They're there to teach the people of that time how to live with each other and try to explain nature in a way for them to understand.

p.s. Even biblical scholars view the bible as just a story of the times for the times.

Wadup Eargasm!

[ December 05, 2003, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: E-Phi ]

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by E-Phi:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
The Bible... Stop reading that garbage&gt;&gt;&gt;

for all you GOD fearing people... YES I'M GOING TO HELL graemlins/cool_shades.gif graemlins/rofl.gif You're just asking for it, huh? But then again all religious books are just parables to help one live in peace with society. They're there to teach the people of that time how to live with each other and try to explain nature in a way for them to understand.

p.s. Even biblical scholars view the bible as just a story of the times for the times.

Wadup Eargasm! </font>[/QUOTE]What's up bro. Your statement is so very true. The bible(all of them) are recipes to a righteous life. But there is more than one way to cook a steak. People tend to grasp on to one of the recipes(bibles)and try to make others "cook" the same way they do. It's a pity people don't realize it is belief that is important and not necessarily what you believe in. My grandmother has been trying to get me to give up being a hethan(sp?) for years. But to her I was a hethan because I believed in Islam and not Christianity.

[ December 05, 2003, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Eargasm ]

[E-Phi]

So true Eargasm. I always try to give people an easier way to see by having them imagine a wagon wheel. In the center is the creator (God, Allah, Yahweh, Buddah, etc). The spokes are the different religions of the world and the wood that connects the spokes together is representative of the people of the world. No matter what way you choose in life, they all (should) lead to the center. graemlins/acclaim.gif