my new song with mixes from mr a.l.i., sean smith... ((listen))

[däp]

torin edmond feat. dawn: => "To be Me" (http://www.satelliterecords.com/live/index.php?dept=Support&prod_detail=yes&stock_number=114093)

give it a listen.

the order of samples is:

afro space mix - sean smith
mr a.l.i. mix - jere mcallister
original mix - torin edmond

[ December 24, 2003, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: t o r i n ]

[Cordell]

It sucks!

Just kidding!

Skillz!

[Ronnie Ron]

Originally posted by t o r i n:
torin edmond feat. dawn: => "To be Me" (http://www.satelliterecords.com/live/index.php?dept=Support&prod_detail=yes&stock_number=114093)

give it a listen.

the order of samples is:

afro space mix - sean smith
mr a.l.i. mix - jere mcallister
original mix - torin edmond Yes its on my new mix in TOT presents, i love this track. keep it up mr. Torin

R-R

[sammyrock]

Torin this track is wicked brotha!!dammmmmmmmm
hail.gif

[Ace Mungin]

I like the Mr a.l.i. Mix, but all 3 mix's sound good,
I like the hook too.

[Barrie Moodswing]

Very nice indeed, do you know if this is gonna be distibuted in the UK? I ain't seen it for sale anywhere.

[ December 25, 2003, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: Barrie' Moodswing' McFarlane ]

[%seRge%]

very nice record.
Keep up the good work.
graemlins/respekt.gif

[DJ George Bates]

20 % smile.gif

[DJ George Bates]

it's dope !

we already talked about my favorite being the original mix !

you are definately top 20 % ! smile.gif

Happy holidays Torin !

[Terry James]

encore! encore!...deserves heavy rotation

[POJI]

What up Torin just got the package this week good record will definately get support on the deeper side of midnight WEAA 88.9fm. We will hook up when I get home to Chicago again Peace Pope

[däp]

thanks for all of the positive feedback.

it sold out at satellite. should be in dance tracks soon.

check with them.

[ December 26, 2003, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: t o r i n ]

[DJ Keith Porter]

Originally posted by t o r i n:
thanks for all of the positive feedback.

it sold out at satellite. should be in dance tracks soon.

check wthh them. Nice track Torin!

I have heard this b4 and Im not sure if I have it already but I will be at Dance tracks today and will ask about it.

(I have too many records....jeeeezzzeee) I am always discovering shit I bought after I hear someone else play things. I need to play out more often. All this studio concentration is making me a stupid DJ. :rolleyes:

Good work my friend and this track should sell well. graemlins/beerchug.gif

[AgentDoubleA]

graemlins/thumbsup.gif


Very nice indeed, do you know if this is gonna be distibuted in the UK? I ain't seen it for sale anywhere.Barrie, Unique (cat. SAR-1003)is distributing for us in the UK.

[DLow]

Torin, I just checked out the clips...nice track. I was feeling all three mixes. Nice work. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by t o r i n:
torin edmond feat. dawn: => "To be Me" (http://www.satelliterecords.com/live/index.php?dept=Support&prod_detail=yes&stock_number=114093)

give it a listen.

the order of samples is:

afro space mix - sean smith
mr a.l.i. mix - jere mcallister
original mix - torin edmond Bought a copy and beat it in my show yesterday. The track is on fire. graemlins/respekt.gif

[larry rauson]

Everybody here is too nice, Torin there is nothing personal in my comments, but one question comes to mind, if you are a producer who wants to be known for peoducing high quality material, why would you let that vocal pass? My personal opinion is that this is a weak vocal record that should not be given the shelf space, possibly at the expense of a much better record, by a person or group that does not have access to the dj community the way you do. If you did not have access, would you have released this record as it is now? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if there was some real knowledge about music behind all the technology, records like this would cease to exist. Also dj's have got to start being more honest. I know more than a couple of the jocks that have posted their opinion, and some that have yet to post will say they'll play this cut, knowing that they absolutely will not. Have some balls ladies and gentleman, is a free record worth the cost of adding to the destruction of this genre...

Merry Christmass

Larry Rauson

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
Everybody here is too nice, Torin there is nothing personal in my comments, but one question comes to mind, if you are a producer who wants to be known for peoducing high quality material, why would you let that vocal pass? My personal opinion is that this is a weak vocal record that should not be given the shelf space, possibly at the expense of a much better record, by a person or group that does not have access to the dj community the way you do. If you did not have access, would you have released this record as it is now? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if there was some real knowledge about music behind all the technology, records like this would cease to exist. Also dj's have got to start being more honest. I know more than a couple of the jocks that have posted their opinion, and some that have yet to post will say they'll play this cut, knowing that they absolutely will not. Have some balls ladies and gentleman, is a free record worth the cost of adding to the destruction of this genre...

Merry Christmass

Larry Rauson You sure you clicked the right link? I wasn't being nice I was being real. I love the Afro Space and Mr. Ali mixes. I played the Afro Space mix in my show yesterday. If I didn't like it trust me I would have said so. I'm not known for keeping my opinion to myself around here(whether folks like them or not). Criticism that is not constructive is pointless. Where are your suggestions on how it could have been better? That shit was just negative for no reason.
graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[DJ Keith Porter]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
Everybody here is too nice, Torin there is nothing personal in my comments, but one question comes to mind, if you are a producer who wants to be known for peoducing high quality material, why would you let that vocal pass? My personal opinion is that this is a weak vocal record that should not be given the shelf space, possibly at the expense of a much better record, by a person or group that does not have access to the dj community the way you do. If you did not have access, would you have released this record as it is now? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if there was some real knowledge about music behind all the technology, records like this would cease to exist. Also dj's have got to start being more honest. I know more than a couple of the jocks that have posted their opinion, and some that have yet to post will say they'll play this cut, knowing that they absolutely will not. Have some balls ladies and gentleman, is a free record worth the cost of adding to the destruction of this genre...

Merry Christmass

Larry Rauson I feel your honesty but that is your opinion about the track.
I said in my post that I think I have the record and I heard it b4. By that it is a track worth remembering. BTW that’s my opinion.

Now like mentioned, I am on lunch break now and I'm going to Dance Tracks to see if they have it because I will be playing it this New Years EVE.

The vocals make mention to know and love yourself. What a wonderful message you think?
Stop look listen again it may change your mind. graemlins/respekt.gif

And happy holidays to you too.

[larry rauson]

I know I'm going to catch some heat from you guys, but that's okay. I stand by my words. There are way too many records like this out there, THEY ARE making it harder for other people doing better work to have their stuff heard. Once again I stand by my words, dj's have to start being much more critical about what producers are producing, and say so, and not worry about how many promos you have in your bag. If your early on a weak record, what have you really gained, or contributed. Let me open my mouth again, producers mostly male, and I've been around a ling time I know of what I speak, need to stop using these female vocalists that have talent that lies in places other than the vocal booth.

Once Again,

Merry Christmass

Larry Rauson

[larry rauson]

Originally posted by DJ Keith Porter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
I feel your honesty but that is your opinion about the track.
I said in my post that I think I have the record and I heard it b4. By that it is a track worth remembering. BTW that’s my opinion.

Now like mentioned, I am on lunch break now and I'm going to Dance Tracks to see if they have it because I will be playing it this New Years EVE.

The vocals make mention to know and love yourself. What a wonderful message you think?
Stop look listen again it may change your mind. graemlins/respekt.gif

And happy holidays to you too. </font>[/QUOTE]Just because a record speaks about love and beauty, does not necessarily mean it is one or the other, both, or neither.

Larry

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
I know I'm going to catch some heat from you guys, but that's okay. I stand by my words. There are way too many records like this out there, THEY ARE making it harder for other people doing better work to have their stuff heard. Once again I stand by my words, dj's have to start being much more critical about what producers are producing, and say so, and not worry about how many promos you have in your bag. If your early on a weak record, what have you really gained, or contributed. Let me open my mouth again, producers mostly male, and I've been around a ling time I know of what I speak, need to stop using these female vocalists that have talent that lies in places other than the vocal booth.

Once Again,

Merry Christmass

Larry Rauson What you are not seeming to get is your opinion is not the be all end all in house music. I count 10 to 11 other people who all said they liked it to your 1. I didn't get a promo from Torin I BOUGHT IT AFTER HEARING AND LIKING IT. Still did not get one constructive comment from you. The only thing weak is your statements.

[larry rauson]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
I know I'm going to catch some heat from you guys, but that's okay. I stand by my words. There are way too many records like this out there, THEY ARE making it harder for other people doing better work to have their stuff heard. Once again I stand by my words, dj's have to start being much more critical about what producers are producing, and say so, and not worry about how many promos you have in your bag. If your early on a weak record, what have you really gained, or contributed. Let me open my mouth again, producers mostly male, and I've been around a ling time I know of what I speak, need to stop using these female vocalists that have talent that lies in places other than the vocal booth.

Once Again,

Merry Christmass

Larry Rauson What you are not seeming to get is your opinion is not the be all end all in house music. I count 10 to 11 other people who all said they liked it to your 1. I didn't get a promo from Torin I BOUGHT IT AFTER HEARING AND LIKING IT. Still did not get one constructive comment from you. The only thing weak is your statements. </font>[/QUOTE]Never said that it was, but I guarantee there are more here that would agree with my position, not only on this tune, but many others. Just based on a matehematical observation, all of the people that posted their opinions (other than me) were positive. You might as well say that this tune gets a 100% approval rating. MAW, Blaze, Kerry, Kenny Bobien, have all been blasted on this page. Are you trying to tell me, that the tune in question regarding this thread is better that any of the productioons from the aforementioned artists, and therefore exempt from any kind of negative feedback?

Larry

[TAC]

I listened to this yesterday, and held my tongue. But genetlemen, I fear Mr. Rauson is kinda right.

First up, FROM LISTENING ON LINE, it sounds to me like the female who that's singing can't hold a note. Plus, she is singing from her nose, and not from her chest. That's for starters.

But in truth, some will always like a song others will always dislike the exact same song. This is a point that I would like it leave the discussion with.

FWIW, I'll listen to it when it gets to Danctracks, and make a final decision then since there may be a whole lot more to the song than what's provided in a sound bite.


Peace
TAC

[larry rauson]

Another question for the producers...With this tune in it's present form, would you submit it to any major label that is still engaged in dance music, eg, Atlantic, or would you submit it to Azuli, or Defected in the UK for licensing? If so, why? If not, why?

Larry

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
I know I'm going to catch some heat from you guys, but that's okay. I stand by my words. There are way too many records like this out there, THEY ARE making it harder for other people doing better work to have their stuff heard. Once again I stand by my words, dj's have to start being much more critical about what producers are producing, and say so, and not worry about how many promos you have in your bag. If your early on a weak record, what have you really gained, or contributed. Let me open my mouth again, producers mostly male, and I've been around a ling time I know of what I speak, need to stop using these female vocalists that have talent that lies in places other than the vocal booth.

Once Again,

Merry Christmass

Larry Rauson What you are not seeming to get is your opinion is not the be all end all in house music. I count 10 to 11 other people who all said they liked it to your 1. I didn't get a promo from Torin I BOUGHT IT AFTER HEARING AND LIKING IT. Still did not get one constructive comment from you. The only thing weak is your statements. </font>[/QUOTE]Never said that it was, but I guarantee there are more here that would agree with my position, not only on this tune, but many others. Just based on a matehematical observation, all of the people that posted their opinions (other than me) were positive. You might as well say that this tune gets a 100% approval rating. MAW, Blaze, Kerry, Kenny Bobien, have all been blasted on this page. Are you trying to tell me, that the tune in question regarding this thread is better that any of the productioons from the aforementioned artists, and therefore exempt from any kind of negative feedback?

Larry </font>[/QUOTE]Larry I think you are missing my point. No song gets 100% approval. But your comments had no constructive elements at all. It was pure negative energy. "Torin there is nothing personal in my comments" was how you started it but I'm sure the work is very personal for him. If you did not like it fine. There is a lot of shit I don't like that most do. But as a courtesy to Torin if you were going to give feedback (positive or negative) you could have found a more tactful and constructive way to put it. I don't think he would have done that to you. I even commented to my brother that on the Mr. Ali mix the vocalist seemed out of tune. I didn't think it was perfect but it is a very nice song.

[ December 26, 2003, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Eargasm ]

[%seRge%]

very nice record.
Keep up the good work.
graemlins/respekt.gif

[TAD]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
Never said that it was, but I guarantee there are more here that would agree with my position, not only on this tune, but many others. this is true. i kinda hold back to reduce the friction on the board. but there's one thing i've learned. ass kissing will get you nowhere fast.

larry is right. way too many records that don't make the grade yet the cheering squads are always in full force. i know it's a good feeling to have your buddies pat you on the back, give the graemlins/thumbsup.gif maybe buy the record to support you or play a promo here & there but in the end it gives false hope & another opportunity to put out continuous mediocrity.

i'd rather have someone tell me it sucks, go back in the lab & come out when it's time. honesty is the best policy & if some are really being honest in this particular thread, well what can i say, i'll hold my tongue on that one.

torin, what i will give you is a graemlins/thumbsup.gif for your determination to finish something & have the balls to put it out there. unfortunately that alone will not guarantee anything & can, in the long run hurt you more because people will not pay attention as much. come out banging & that's a different story altogether. so what if you have to wait. the effort is in the work you do regardless if you release it or not. it's your time spent that will give you the much needed experience & then one day, something magical will happen at a point when you least expect it.

one piece of advice to tap into the third eye. when you're locked in the lab & you've been working for hours on end & you feel you have to turn in cause you're dead tired...........DON'T!!!! why??? because something magical is about to happen. fatigue is an indication that the higher power is about to kick in. don't try to think, just let your mind go & see what happens.

[larry rauson]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
I know I'm going to catch some heat from you guys, but that's okay. I stand by my words. There are way too many records like this out there, THEY ARE making it harder for other people doing better work to have their stuff heard. Once again I stand by my words, dj's have to start being much more critical about what producers are producing, and say so, and not worry about how many promos you have in your bag. If your early on a weak record, what have you really gained, or contributed. Let me open my mouth again, producers mostly male, and I've been around a ling time I know of what I speak, need to stop using these female vocalists that have talent that lies in places other than the vocal booth.

Once Again,

Merry Christmass

Larry Rauson What you are not seeming to get is your opinion is not the be all end all in house music. I count 10 to 11 other people who all said they liked it to your 1. I didn't get a promo from Torin I BOUGHT IT AFTER HEARING AND LIKING IT. Still did not get one constructive comment from you. The only thing weak is your statements. </font>[/QUOTE]Never said that it was, but I guarantee there are more here that would agree with my position, not only on this tune, but many others. Just based on a matehematical observation, all of the people that posted their opinions (other than me) were positive. You might as well say that this tune gets a 100% approval rating. MAW, Blaze, Kerry, Kenny Bobien, have all been blasted on this page. Are you trying to tell me, that the tune in question regarding this thread is better that any of the productioons from the aforementioned artists, and therefore exempt from any kind of negative feedback?

Larry </font>[/QUOTE]Larry I think you are missing my point. No song gets 100% approval. But your comments had no constructive elements at all. It was pure negative energy. "Torin there is nothing personal in my comments" was how you started it but I'm sure the work is very personal for him. If you did not like it fine. There is a lot of shit I don't like that most do. But as a courtesy to Torin if you were going to give feedback (positive or negative) you could have found a more tactful and constructive way to put it. I don't think he would have done that to you. I even commented to my brother that on the Mr. Ali mix the vocalist seemed out of tune. I didn't think it was perfect but it is a very nice song. </font>[/QUOTE]My criticism or any one else's criticism, positive or negative does not need to be constructive. Negative criticism, by it's very nature tends to be deconstructive. If some one releases a subpar work be it a movie, a book, a picture, or a record, get's what they deserve. Secondly, constructive criticism was not asked for.

Larry

[larry rauson]

[/qb][/QUOTE]I even commented to my brother that on the Mr. Ali mix the vocalist seemed out of tune. I didn't think it was perfect but it is a very nice song. [/QB][/QUOTE]

In other areas of the music industry, nice little songs don't make it. Hip Hop, and R&b tunes are worked on until they are PERFECT. And they are Perfect. Perfect musically, perfect from a performance standpoint, perfect from a technical standpoint. The arguement that The budgets these records have is what responsible for their perfection is bullshit and cowardice. Too many house music producers have their own studios with top notch gear. there is no excuse for the amount of bullshit records that CONSUMERS have too wadt through to get to the good stuff.

Larry

[ December 26, 2003, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: larry rauson ]

[däp]

i think it's ok if people don't like it. i will carry on.

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
I even commented to my brother that on the Mr. Ali mix the vocalist seemed out of tune. I didn't think it was perfect but it is a very nice song. [/QB][/QUOTE]

In other areas of the music industry, nice little songs don't make it. Hip Hop, and R&b tunes are worked on until they are PERFECT. And they are Perfect. Perfect musically, perfect from a performance standpoint, perfect from a technical standpoint. The arguement that The budgets these records have is what responsible for their perfection is bullshit and cowardice. Too many house music producers have their own studios with top notch gear. there is no excuse for the amount of bullshit records that CONSUMERS have too wadt through to get to the good stuff.

Larry [/QB][/QUOTE]Name some songs you think are "Perfect" cause I have never heard one.

[larry rauson]

[[/QB][/QUOTE]Name some songs you think are "Perfect" cause I have never heard one. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Don't have to name a song just a couple of artists, Celine Dion, as much as I dislike her stuff, her stuff could be used in a college theory class, her producers make sure that stuff is perfect, really listen to the Beyonce album, not a big fan of hers either, but those tracks are much more well executed than the "average house track" Ashanti, may not be able to sing in person, but that does not mean her album tracks are not perfectly produced. And remember the record company sells the records. Nothing else. The production quality of most house records comes no where near the quality of even the most unheard of major label act, and that is undenialble.

Larry

[TAC]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
Name some songs you think are "Perfect" cause I have never heard one. No bullsh*ting. Here's one. Its the first song on this CD; "Bloomdido." The song is perfect. I am not trying to be funny. But brothers are tight, and don't miss a note.

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc500/c568/c56889y7skc.jpg

Peace
TAc

[ December 26, 2003, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: TAC ]

[larry rauson]

Yo man, too deep you gonna hurt somebody up in here..

Larry

[TAD]

Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Name some songs you think are "Perfect" cause I have never heard one. No bullsh*ting. Here's one. Its the first song on this CD; "Bloomdido." The song is perfect. I am not trying to be funny. But brothers are tight, and don't miss a note.

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc500/c568/c56889y7skc.jpg

Peace
TAc </font>[/QUOTE]beat me to it. i'll throw in love supreme & my favorite things

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
I know I'm going to catch some heat from you guys, but that's okay. I stand by my words. There are way too many records like this out there, THEY ARE making it harder for other people doing better work to have their stuff heard. Once again I stand by my words, dj's have to start being much more critical about what producers are producing, and say so, and not worry about how many promos you have in your bag. If your early on a weak record, what have you really gained, or contributed. Let me open my mouth again, producers mostly male, and I've been around a ling time I know of what I speak, need to stop using these female vocalists that have talent that lies in places other than the vocal booth.

Once Again,

Merry Christmass

Larry Rauson What you are not seeming to get is your opinion is not the be all end all in house music. I count 10 to 11 other people who all said they liked it to your 1. I didn't get a promo from Torin I BOUGHT IT AFTER HEARING AND LIKING IT. Still did not get one constructive comment from you. The only thing weak is your statements. </font>[/QUOTE]Never said that it was, but I guarantee there are more here that would agree with my position, not only on this tune, but many others. Just based on a matehematical observation, all of the people that posted their opinions (other than me) were positive. You might as well say that this tune gets a 100% approval rating. MAW, Blaze, Kerry, Kenny Bobien, have all been blasted on this page. Are you trying to tell me, that the tune in question regarding this thread is better that any of the productioons from the aforementioned artists, and therefore exempt from any kind of negative feedback?

Larry </font>[/QUOTE]Larry I think you are missing my point. No song gets 100% approval. But your comments had no constructive elements at all. It was pure negative energy. "Torin there is nothing personal in my comments" was how you started it but I'm sure the work is very personal for him. If you did not like it fine. There is a lot of shit I don't like that most do. But as a courtesy to Torin if you were going to give feedback (positive or negative) you could have found a more tactful and constructive way to put it. I don't think he would have done that to you. I even commented to my brother that on the Mr. Ali mix the vocalist seemed out of tune. I didn't think it was perfect but it is a very nice song. </font>[/QUOTE]My criticism or any one else's criticism, positive or negative does not need to be constructive. Negative criticism, by it's very nature tends to be deconstructive. If some one releases a subpar work be it a movie, a book, a picture, or a record, get's what they deserve. Secondly, constructive criticism was not asked for.

Larry </font>[/QUOTE]Some people just need to tear others down. Let me give you an example of what I mean. Yesterday there was a thread asking for opinions on Jay Z's new album. I ripped it because I think his music is awful. If he had personally posted and asked for opinions I would have told him that I did not like his type of music or what it represents but I respect him because(whether it sucks or not) he had the balls to put it out there. I would tell him that if he had better content I might give him a listen. In this instance I would have made my opinion known without tearing him down and giving constructive advice on how he could get me to listen.

[TAD]

Originally posted by Beatdown:
That's why I always tell cats that want to join the game to put time into this craft before they just jump out and try to bang a club. Trials by fire don't always work out. graemlins/cool_shades.gif taken from the unknown dj thread.

[larry rauson]

I expect, after being active and succesful in this business for almost 14 years now, that if I do a whack record, that I expect people to tell me with no sugar coating. And I know where to go to get that honest feedback. If someone wants to post a sample of what they do in an open forum, they are open to whatever people have to say. If Torin has had little response to my comments, Eargasm, you do him little favor. If a person who posts a sample of his or her work in an open forum, and expects constructive criticism can pay me by the hour for my consulting services.

Larry

[Terry James]

Larry,

I am not trying to personally attack you as you did to the artist of "to be me". I wouldn't want to discourage you from expressing and being yourself at the expense of my opinion.

But ya know this is not math, this is expression, this is art and about interpretation. We can respect other's opinions but we can't respect other's work (art).

Nothing wrong with not liking a song and saying why but, when you go beyond that and start attacking the effort and accomplishment, then it does become personal. Your comments go far beyond Torin's sound bite. It attacks the motivation, creativity and love towards something that many of us are committed to and have dedicated most of are lives to progressing.

If I or others got "something" out of this song, please don't regarded it as promo pc. Works of art will always be subject to ridicule but, do not make the mistake of ridiculing the art. Some said they liked the song, you and a few didn't, that's ok and it's to be expected. There are producers who I have the utmost admiration for but will not buy everything they put out. And to compare Torins release with staples such as Louie Vega, Blaze, etc is a triumph in it's self.

IMHP, It's destructive comments likes yours that will do more harm to house, than any song that's not to your liking.

I guess we all should be looking towards your playlist for future reference to determine what to buy...

Terry James

[TAC]

I gotta run out. But I don't think this whole thread is about personal attacks. I haven't seen one yet.

Stick to the point criticism of a piece. A lot of value can come from this.

Peace
TAC

[ December 26, 2003, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: TAC ]

[TAD]

Originally posted by Terry J:
IMHP, It's destructive comments likes yours that will do more harm to house, than any song that's not to your liking. this could not be further from the truth. in fact bad criticism is actually good. it makes those who have REAL talent work HARDER. it makes those who are smart enough to go beyond the ego, take the advice for what it's worth & LEARN from it.

those who are truly gifted & have the DETERMINATION to succeed cannot be stopped.

[larry rauson]

Originally posted by Terry J:
Larry,



I guess we all should be looking towards your playlist for future reference to determine what to buy...

Terry James If that's the case you won't be buying very many records. You like, some others, have mistaken my pointed out burst as a personal attack aginst Torin. It is categorically not, but it is an attack on poorly produced records, that as a buyer you have to admit there is serious problem there in terms of retail exposure. In terms of business, don't you think it's better for all involved to have a few doing top notch work, rather that far too many doing halfassed, poorly executed records. Ask yourself that question. I know the answer.

Larry

[Tony Cano]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
If a person who posts a sample of his or her work in an open forum, and expects constructive criticism can pay me by the hour for my consulting services.

Larry is this what this is all about?

I have not heard the record yet, but if it's already out of stock at Satellite then obviously someone is digging it. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

keep doing your thing guys!!!

tc

[Terry James]

Originally posted by Cosmic T:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Terry J:
IMHP, It's destructive comments likes yours that will do more harm to house, than any song that's not to your liking. this could not be further from the truth. in fact bad criticism is actually good. it makes those who have REAL talent work HARDER. it makes those who are smart enough to go beyond the ego, take the advice for what it's worth & LEARN from it.

those who are truly gifted & have the DETERMINATION to succeed cannot be stopped. </font>[/QUOTE]Don't take my words out of context. Criticism is good but IMO the previous comments were destructive and went beyond the song. Just my opinion, twist and shape it as you will.

[DJ Keith Porter]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ Keith Porter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
I feel your honesty but that is your opinion about the track.
I said in my post that I think I have the record and I heard it b4. By that it is a track worth remembering. BTW that’s my opinion.

Now like mentioned, I am on lunch break now and I'm going to Dance Tracks to see if they have it because I will be playing it this New Years EVE.

The vocals make mention to know and love yourself. What a wonderful message you think?
Stop look listen again it may change your mind. graemlins/respekt.gif

And happy holidays to you too. </font>[/QUOTE]Just because a record speaks about love and beauty, does not necessarily mean it is one or the other, both, or neither.

Larry </font>[/QUOTE]OK back from Dance Tracks.. No they didn't have the track.. Its cool but I think I have it.

Well you maybe right but I tend to dig tracks with meaningful and positive vocals.

Like I said I have heard this track on a system and I liked it again, I think I have it.

You are entitled to your opinion of course but it just doesn't match with mine and that’s ok. I’m sure when I drop one of my tracks it may not be liked. There will be some people that may like it.

For example, I just came back from Dance tracks and like a salesman that know how much I shop gives me a handful of records to check out. Before I even hear anything he's like oh you'll like this and ooh this up your alley. Ok fine I go to one of the listening station and the end result is that I put back 90% of what was given to me why, because I didn't like all of them. But, you know what there was a guy listening to some of the same tracks I was and we kind of got to the cashier at the same time and I noticed he was buying tracks that I put back. Hhhuuumm , Just a matter of style and opinion I guest.

What I am also trying to say is there are some tracks that I don't like at first and then bam I hear it in the club and I'm like I should have not put that one back.
This is a true example and I probably get creamed for this one.
Two yrs ago I went to Chicago and heard Pevean Everett(SP) perform live "I can't believe I love her” at the Green Dolphin.

I get back to NYC and walked into Dance tracks and bump into Kim Lightfoot. We say our what’s ups and blah. After that the first thing he says is yo just buy the new Pevean E. He hands me the record and then I snatch up some others to listen too.
When it was time to buy my buddle of joy I had put PE back on the shelf cause I wasn't feeling it even though I just heard it live. Again opinions and feelings?

Now 6 months goes by and I’m hearing this song at parties and I'm dancing my ass off to it every time. Guess what? I ran to the record store to get my copy and they were out of stock. This went on for about another two months and finally I go to the label and get my copy.
The moral of the story is that sometimes you just don't feel the record when you first hear it and you may never feel a record but when its something you like you buy it.

As for kissing ass please I am a Leo and I don’t play that shit. I play that hit!

Torin your response was very noble! Once again it’s just my opinion!
graemlins/respekt.gif

[TAD]

Originally posted by Terry J:
Criticism is good but IMO the previous comments were destructive and went beyond the song. Just my opinion, twist and shape it as you will. never saw the comments as destructive.

[Terry James]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Terry J:
Larry,



I guess we all should be looking towards your playlist for future reference to determine what to buy...

Terry James If that's the case you won't be buying very many records. You like, some others, have mistaken my pointed out burst as a personal attack aginst Torin. It is categorically not, but it is an attack on poorly produced records, that as a buyer you have to admit there is serious problem there in terms of retail exposure. In terms of business, don't you think it's better for all involved to have a few doing top notch work, rather that far too many doing halfassed, poorly executed records. Ask yourself that question. I know the answer.

Larry </font>[/QUOTE]This is bigger than Torin, its about trying to continue to build on the genre of music we love. The answer to your question is NO!. I do not want a few good people to monopolize anything I participate in. Who am I or they to determine what's good for anyone. I want new producers to release records, I want new ideas. You may consider it to be less than perfect but is that to say it can't be appreciated.

Respectfully,

Terry James

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Terry J:
Larry,



I guess we all should be looking towards your playlist for future reference to determine what to buy...

Terry James If that's the case you won't be buying very many records. You like, some others, have mistaken my pointed out burst as a personal attack aginst Torin. It is categorically not, but it is an attack on poorly produced records, that as a buyer you have to admit there is serious problem there in terms of retail exposure. In terms of business, don't you think it's better for all involved to have a few doing top notch work, rather that far too many doing halfassed, poorly executed records. Ask yourself that question. I know the answer.

Larry </font>[/QUOTE]Larry trust me I agreen that there are a ton of poorly produced records out there. I do not agree with your assertion that this is one of them. By most peoples standards early house(83-90??) was crudely produced. Some would even say poorly produced. But they are some of the best songs I have heard.

[DOTSmusic]

i'm not too big on the vocals.
i like the Original mix and the Sean
Smith mix, the i'm not really feeling
the Mr A.l.i. mix too much though.

sounds nice guys,
keep up the good work.
graemlins/beerchug.gif

[TAD]

why don't producers start a night, a listening/dancing party or a workshop where they can showcase their unreleased product.

torin, did you test market the song b4 releasing it? meaning was it given to key jocks. ie: regisford, kevorkian, claussell, morales, vega, humphries? this is a crucial step in having your stuff validated. personally if i gave product to any one of these guys & they didn't play it, i wouldn't release it. they are the barometer & a guarantee that your shit will get recognized.

[TAD]

Originally posted by aKiLa:
i'm not too big on the vocals.now that's house

[big d]

people wonder why theres so many folk who 'lurk' on dhp well maybe its because of biznizz like this..cos you 'hatin' just for expressin an opinion!!! now some guys will interpret this as ball-washing (on my part) or whatever else fool-ass expression people use but at the end of the day ive gotta give props to larry rauson.. i couldnt give a fvck really what people like, or if i react differently to a record to you or whatever, peeps entitled to their own taste.. but i read the thread first b4 listening to the sample and i felt that larry was extremely respectful in his criticism.. i then listened to the track, and to be honest my opinion was that it was a weak vocal..now, seriously, correct me if i'm wrong, but dhp holds some weight in the 'deep' community so we should as a collective body be promoting the best possible music, not just elevating the status of those we respect.. ok, so now this is the situation where people come back with 'so what are you doin for the scene...?' type questions.. well, i and my fellow music fans support the scene, spend all our hard earned cash on records, clubs, drinks to support clubs etc.. so whats wrong with expressing an opinion on a public thread like this? because, with all due respect, what has selling out satellite got to do with $hit? i'm sure paul jokenfold or whatever else trance bullshit sells tonnes of copies in satellite, but that alone doesnt make it worthy of our admiration... ive been reading this board for a fair while, and larry always comes in with some interesting insight but cant folks seem to see that if we (collectively, not just the individual artist...respect torin) get so offended by peoples insight, that no-one is gonna post their real opinion, excepts for poppin some flowery shit that you think dude gonna want to hear.... thats all, i think theres a lot better songs out there, but respect for getting to the postion to put your song out there torin - everyone who puts effort in to get stuff out deserves respect, but the record buying public also deserve respect fot their views.. respect also to larry rauson for offering his opinion in a respectful way... maan, theres a whole lot of producers on this board, does everyone gotsta like everyone elses work.?. mad props for doing your thing, everybody who does, but no-one should be resting on their laurels so i dont see how some honest criticism harms anyone... just my opinion, but oh yeah, i dont have time to post much, so my opinion wont mean shit!!!! (kidding, honestly!)

Peace!

Dave

[DJ Keith Porter]

Originally posted by Cosmic T:
why don't producers start a night, a listening/dancing party or a workshop where they can showcase their unreleased product.

torin, did you test market the song b4 releasing it? meaning was it given to key jocks. ie: regisford, kevorkian, claussell, morales, vega, humphries? this is a crucial step in having your stuff validated. personally if i gave product to any one of these guys & they didn't play it, i wouldn't release it. they are the barometer & a guarantee that your shit will get recognized. This true to some degree.

I believe in testing your product with DJ's but most of them play out of this country so how would you know if your track is being played.

It aint like it used to be where Tony was at Zanzibar (Weekly) Loiue at SoundFactory Bar (Weekly) and Blah and blah.
These cats are worried about playing and testing their own stuff now a days. Believe that!

Timmy is the only one in NYC that is making it his Business to keep that type of tradtion alive. The others ant where they used to be.
Don't get me wrong I love them all but the truth is when they left us for the $$$$ it damaged the community.

Also, there are many records that have not been test driving and they sold well. ie. Look at all the inports from other countries that sell well her in USA. I didn't hear dam there all of them b4 they were released and they sold well. Huuumm.
Shit even Ron Trent stuff doesn't get NYC test driving but it get released and he makes his money.

I think that thought needs some reconstruction be cause times have changed!
Again, Just my opinion! graemlins/acclaim.gif

[DJ Keith Porter]

Originally posted by big d:
people wonder why theres so many folk who 'lurk' on dhp well maybe its because of biznizz like this..cos you 'hatin' just for expressin an opinion!!! now some guys will interpret this as ball-washing (on my part) or whatever else fool-ass expression people use but at the end of the day ive gotta give props to larry rauson.. i couldnt give a fvck really what people like, or if i react differently to a record to you or whatever, peeps entitled to their own taste.. but i read the thread first b4 listening to the sample and i felt that larry was extremely respectful in his criticism.. i then listened to the track, and to be honest my opinion was that it was a weak vocal..now, seriously, correct me if i'm wrong, but dhp holds some weight in the 'deep' community so we should as a collective body be promoting the best possible music, not just elevating the status of those we respect.. ok, so now this is the situation where people come back with 'so what are you doin for the scene...?' type questions.. well, i and my fellow music fans support the scene, spend all our hard earned cash on records, clubs, drinks to support clubs etc.. so whats wrong with expressing an opinion on a public thread like this? because, with all due respect, what has selling out satellite got to do with $hit? i'm sure paul jokenfold or whatever else trance bullshit sells tonnes of copies in satellite, but that alone doesnt make it worthy of our admiration... ive been reading this board for a fair while, and larry always comes in with some interesting insight but cant folks seem to see that if we (collectively, not just the individual artist...respect torin) get so offended by peoples insight, that no-one is gonna post their real opinion, excepts for poppin some flowery shit that you think dude gonna want to hear.... thats all, i think theres a lot better songs out there, but respect for getting to the postion to put your song out there torin - everyone who puts effort in to get stuff out deserves respect, but the record buying public also deserve respect fot their views.. respect also to larry rauson for offering his opinion in a respectful way... maan, theres a whole lot of producers on this board, does everyone gotsta like everyone elses work.?. mad props for doing your thing, everybody who does, but no-one should be resting on their laurels so i dont see how some honest criticism harms anyone... just my opinion, but oh yeah, i dont have time to post much, so my opinion wont mean shit!!!! (kidding, honestly!)

Peace!

Dave I feel you on that Big d.

I respect everyones opinion I'd be a norrow minded fool if I didn't.

To me this just just means that as a DJ some poeple will have this record in their box and some people will not.

What larry said is his opinion and I think it was respectful for one he didn't hide his opinion. for two he kind of extended his opinion on a lot of tracks that do come out thes days.

Like in my aformentioned post, I just came back from dance tracks and put back some records I wasn't feeling but someone else did like them because opinions are like asssholes everyone has one.

Further, I find a lot of people here on this board are looking for stuff they weren't feeling before and now they want the tracks and its hard to get now.

Season change as well as feelings.! graemlins/acclaim.gif

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by big d:
people wonder why theres so many folk who 'lurk' on dhp well maybe its because of biznizz like this..cos you 'hatin' just for expressin an opinion!!! now some guys will interpret this as ball-washing (on my part) or whatever else fool-ass expression people use but at the end of the day ive gotta give props to larry rauson.. i couldnt give a fvck really what people like, or if i react differently to a record to you or whatever, peeps entitled to their own taste.. but i read the thread first b4 listening to the sample and i felt that larry was extremely respectful in his criticism.. i then listened to the track, and to be honest my opinion was that it was a weak vocal..now, seriously, correct me if i'm wrong, but dhp holds some weight in the 'deep' community so we should as a collective body be promoting the best possible music, not just elevating the status of those we respect.. ok, so now this is the situation where people come back with 'so what are you doin for the scene...?' type questions.. well, i and my fellow music fans support the scene, spend all our hard earned cash on records, clubs, drinks to support clubs etc.. so whats wrong with expressing an opinion on a public thread like this? because, with all due respect, what has selling out satellite got to do with $hit? i'm sure paul jokenfold or whatever else trance bullshit sells tonnes of copies in satellite, but that alone doesnt make it worthy of our admiration... ive been reading this board for a fair while, and larry always comes in with some interesting insight but cant folks seem to see that if we (collectively, not just the individual artist...respect torin) get so offended by peoples insight, that no-one is gonna post their real opinion, excepts for poppin some flowery shit that you think dude gonna want to hear.... thats all, i think theres a lot better songs out there, but respect for getting to the postion to put your song out there torin - everyone who puts effort in to get stuff out deserves respect, but the record buying public also deserve respect fot their views.. respect also to larry rauson for offering his opinion in a respectful way... maan, theres a whole lot of producers on this board, does everyone gotsta like everyone elses work.?. mad props for doing your thing, everybody who does, but no-one should be resting on their laurels so i dont see how some honest criticism harms anyone... just my opinion, but oh yeah, i dont have time to post much, so my opinion wont mean shit!!!! (kidding, honestly!)

Peace!

Dave You have missed the point. Everyone that has adressed Larry has acknowledged that he is entitled to his opinion. My problem was not with his opinion it was about they way he asserted it. I think Terry put it alot better than I could. I don't think he is hating at all. He heard the song and didn't like it. Happens to me all the time. My brother will tell me something is hot and I'll say I'm not feeling it.

[Terry James]

OMG, No one is hatin' nor have I accused any one of hatin'. I addressed the comments the way I interpreted them. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but to put the decline of house music on the shoulders of 1 track was a bit overkill. But, then again that was what I took from it be it right or wrong. I don't claim to be the perfect anything and what I like you may not. What's wrong with that? Larry can say whatever he wants in this forum and has raised very good points, though I may not totally agree with everything he says, I can respect them.

To disagree is not the end of the world nor is it hatin'

Peace,

Terry James...

[SMOOTH87]

I whole heartly agree that everyone is free to speak their peice negative or positive. That is the reason why the sample was put here to get opinions.

Being one of the persons who put out this record for those who do not know is because I like the vocals. This is not a screaming vocal like Ann Nesby or Lolletta Holloway. This is a more soft spoken one. The thing that attracted us the most was what the vocal is saying and it is simply to be yourself.

The big issuses with the comment is not that you didn't like the vocal but that but this one vocal out there it will bring down house and take creadibility away from the scene. This is how I interpreted it. That is the part I find offensive. That is just like a lot of people feel when one dj gets put on he will shut everyone else down. No one person can do all the parties in the world just like one record will bring down a scene. You either buy or you do not. Which bring to mind when I heard a Larry Ranson track not sure the name but it had an R&B mix. I did not feel the song so I did not buy it. I simply looked at it as his expression but not for me.

As far as the people nut grabbing or saying something because we gave them a promo. We gave out few promos of this. Those who like this or said they like it do so because they want to.

As far as testing I have played this out several times and I got good responses and people always ask aboout the song when it is dropped. It moves the floor and for those who were at the last dhp party in Chicago can attest to that...


-Sean Smith

[Tony Cano]

Originally posted by Cosmic T:
why don't producers start a night, a listening/dancing party or a workshop where they can showcase their unreleased product.

torin, did you test market the song b4 releasing it? meaning was it given to key jocks. ie: regisford, kevorkian, claussell, morales, vega, humphries? this is a crucial step in having your stuff validated. personally if i gave product to any one of these guys & they didn't play it, i wouldn't release it. they are the barometer & a guarantee that your shit will get recognized. no disrespect to any of those you have mentioned, but i would not put my career on hold if any of the 6 didn't play my record. there is a lot of good music that isn't touched by any of them.

this is what you call playing it safe.

tc

[ December 26, 2003, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Tony Cano ]

[Ronnie Ron]

I dont play tracks i dont like. PERIOD i dont care who's it is. If i didnt like the track it would have never made it to my mix, if others dont like it thats kool. In my opinion the Afro Space dub was nice, graemlins/conf44.gif

Its good to have folks opinion nothing wrong with that, i respect what Larry has to say.

R-R

[Cordell]

Respect to Larry and his comments on the song. I understand that you want the producers to "reach" deep down and pull out the best within them. The vocals on this song aren't strong, but the music can't be ignored. The bottom line is... the producer felt in his heart that the song overall was good enough to put out there. Some people liked it and some didn't. Who's to say that there could be some remixes in the works that may not include the vocals or just a "deep dub"?
Besides this ain't the only record that Torin & company are gonna put out. This is a first with more comin'.
Good criticism, Larry but maybe next time PM a message on making it better. Dig deep T.

[Cordell]

Originally posted by Cosmic T:
why don't producers start a night, a listening/dancing party or a workshop where they can showcase their unreleased product.

torin, did you test market the song b4 releasing it? meaning was it given to key jocks. ie: regisford, kevorkian, claussell, morales, vega, humphries? this is a crucial step in having your stuff validated. personally if i gave product to any one of these guys & they didn't play it, i wouldn't release it. they are the barometer & a guarantee that your shit will get recognized. Are you kidding me?? Theres a whole world out there besides NYC. Trust me!

[TAD]

Originally posted by Cordell:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic T:
why don't producers start a night, a listening/dancing party or a workshop where they can showcase their unreleased product.

torin, did you test market the song b4 releasing it? meaning was it given to key jocks. ie: regisford, kevorkian, claussell, morales, vega, humphries? this is a crucial step in having your stuff validated. personally if i gave product to any one of these guys & they didn't play it, i wouldn't release it. they are the barometer & a guarantee that your shit will get recognized. Are you kidding me?? Theres a whole world out there besides NYC. Trust me! </font>[/QUOTE]sorry, knuckles, gu, trent. feel better?

[TAD]

Originally posted by Tony Cano:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic T:
why don't producers start a night, a listening/dancing party or a workshop where they can showcase their unreleased product.

torin, did you test market the song b4 releasing it? meaning was it given to key jocks. ie: regisford, kevorkian, claussell, morales, vega, humphries? this is a crucial step in having your stuff validated. personally if i gave product to any one of these guys & they didn't play it, i wouldn't release it. they are the barometer & a guarantee that your shit will get recognized. no disrespect to any of those you have mentioned, but i would not put my career on hold if any of the 6 didn't play my record. there is a lot of good music that isn't touched by any of them.

this is what you call playing it safe.

tc </font>[/QUOTE]who's talking about putting a career on hold. i'll tell you what will put your career on hold. if you think you're hot shit putting out wack material & your bank account gets put on hold, then your career will surely be put on hold. like i said b4 just because you're in the studio every night & you don't release stuff right away doesn't mean you're not growing, waiting for the right moment when you're stuff is tight & matured.

do musicians who play in bands release everything they play? not a chance. do they play out every night. no. does that stop them from practicing night after night in some garage or rehearsal studio. hell no. the determination to succeed will open up more doors than a quick fix or a rush to try & get your shit out there.

in reference to our comment on the above mentioned jocks please provide a list of great songs that may have been overlooked by any of these guys & provide some proof of this. i mean there's a lot of speculation going on around here & not nearly enough good music.

[Cordell]

Originally posted by Cosmic T:
sorry, knuckles, gu, trent. feel better?


Get real. That's pretty shallow, but I understand why you believe that.

[ December 26, 2003, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Cordell ]

[TAD]

Originally posted by Cordell:
Originally posted by Cosmic T:
sorry, knuckles, gu, trent. feel better?


Get real. That's pretty shallow, but I understand why you believe that. believe what? sorry but you don't know shit about what i believe.

nice edit though. too bad i caught the first draft.

shallow indeed. but your implication that i have a narrow vision of things merited this response. if i had included those names initially, you wouldn't have gotten your panties in a bunch.

hell yeah there's a world beyond nyc. i live in it & have been witness to change & progress within my own community.

anyway i don't see the big deal. just trying to dispense some advice but you want to take it to the level of your insecurity.

[AK]

I believe I have this track, but honestly can't recall whether I've listened to it yet. Thus, I express no opinion on it. One point I will make, however, is that, IMHO, at least 90% of the house records made could probably be best described as "mediocre" at best and "garbage" at worst. Anyone who claims to be "feeling" and is actually buying more than 10% of what's out at any given time...well, I would just question what that's all about. Honestly, and taking nothing away from the artists and producers, ours has evolved (starting in the 80's) into a genre in which it's comparatively easy to produce and sell records. As a result, our scene is flooded with a lot of inferior music. On the flip side, I think for many of these artists and prodcers there is an evolution or growth period, in which their excitement and haste to put out a "first record" will give way to greater study, creativity and technique, resulting in better quality productions. As a DJ, I am thankful for those who continue to produce this music and work hard to sharpen their craft. It really is the life blood of our scene. So to Torin and all of the producers on the board, keep evolving and doing your thing.

[däp]

i'm truly amazed at the discussion my new song has sparked, thanks to mr. rauson, (jr.?) and his negative comments.

maybe he's beyond reproach. maybe this has become the American idol of house music but, i don't recall asking for anyone's opinion. the title of the post said ((listen)). i posted it for those who have not had a chance to hear, plain and simple. this was very naive on my part.

while i have watched all of the posts fly back and forth, this song has suddenly become the poster child for "what your house music vocals shouldn't sound like." i'm not going to defend myself on this point. this is DHP and i can take it as well as dish it out, though i'm rarely negative without being constructive.

a lot of the comments made are assumptions; that i have no musical training, no production experience, not enough sense to let others hear a song before putting it out, etcetera.

i've been "ripped" for not giving promos to certain people, etc. i am not new to the game. check your records. i don't need the approval of the masses to do what i want to do in this lifetime. if you don't like it, don't support it, plain and simple. if you want to be an ass about it, that's your prerogative.

i have always been incensed by the elitists within the entertainment industry. it is even more troubling when artists bash one another in public (in-fighting). i don't believe i have one larry rauson tune, but i also don't remember spewing negativity regarding my personal tastes and how his don't align with mine. i don't take his comments personally because he doesn't know me. all he knows is a 2 minute sound bite with three mixes. i must have missed the "check with larry rauson before releasing your tune" memo.

i was at a party tonight where an individual proceeded to "rip" a certain social group for being "whacked" while not realizing many members were in the same room.

you never know who you're talking to or whether paths may cross some day. i have been dissed by the best of them. at the end of the day, it's my life to do with as i please. this something i've wanted to accomplish for some time and i've done it. there will be more where this came from so in some folks eyes i will continue to contribute to the degradation of the scene. it's absurd and i really don't give one.

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by t o r i n:
i'm truly amazed at the discussion my new song has sparked, thanks to mr. rauson, (jr.?) and his negative comments.

maybe he's beyond reproach. maybe this has become the American idol of house music but, i don't recall asking for anyone's opinion. the title of the post said ((listen)). i posted it for those who have not had a chance to hear, plain and simple. this was very naive on my part.

while i have watched all of the posts fly back and forth, this song has suddenly become the poster child for "what your house music vocals shouldn't sound like." i'm not going to defend myself on this point. this is DHP and i can take it as well as dish it out, though i'm rarely negative without being constructive.

a lot of the comments made are assumptions; that i have no musical training, no production experience, not enough sense to let others hear a song before putting it out, etcetera.

i've been "ripped" for not giving promos to certain people, etc. i am not new to the game. check your records. i don't need the approval of the masses to do what i want to do in this lifetime. if you don't like it, don't support it, plain and simple. if you want to be an ass about it, that's your prerogative.

i have always been incensed by the elitists within the entertainment industry. it is even more troubling when artists bash one another in public (in-fighting). i don't believe i have one larry rauson tune, but i also don't remember spewing negativity regarding my personal tastes and how his don't align with mine. i don't take his comments personally because he doesn't know me. all he knows is a 2 minute sound bite with three mixes. i must have missed the "check with larry rauson before releasing your tune" memo.

i was at a party tonight where an individual proceeded to "rip" a certain social group for being "whacked" while not realizing many members were in the same room.

you never know who you're talking to or whether paths may cross some day. i have been dissed by the best of them. at the end of the day, it's my life to do with as i please. this something i've wanted to accomplish for some time and i've done it. there will be more where this came from so in some folks eyes i will continue to contribute to the degradation of the scene. it's absurd and i really don't give one. Very classy response. graemlins/respekt.gif

[biggrl80]

This is Jozana. I'm at my girlfriends house and for some reason i'm having trouble logging on with my own name but i agree with both sides. I like the song personally but i don't think Larry Rauson should be attacked for his opinion. He has his and i have mine. Those producers that he mentioned as being great have made many fine songs but they have all made some bullshit(to me) in their day. Torin did a nice project and i like it but Larry should have a right to blast his project. This forum should be open to criticism. If i didn't like it, I would have no qualms in telling him just like i have no qualms in praising him when i like his work.

[DLow]

Originally posted by DJ Keith Porter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ Keith Porter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
I feel your honesty but that is your opinion about the track.
I said in my post that I think I have the record and I heard it b4. By that it is a track worth remembering. BTW that’s my opinion.

Now like mentioned, I am on lunch break now and I'm going to Dance Tracks to see if they have it because I will be playing it this New Years EVE.

The vocals make mention to know and love yourself. What a wonderful message you think?
Stop look listen again it may change your mind. graemlins/respekt.gif

And happy holidays to you too. </font>[/QUOTE]Just because a record speaks about love and beauty, does not necessarily mean it is one or the other, both, or neither.

Larry </font>[/QUOTE]OK back from Dance Tracks.. No they didn't have the track.. Its cool but I think I have it.

Well you maybe right but I tend to dig tracks with meaningful and positive vocals.

Like I said I have heard this track on a system and I liked it again, I think I have it.

You are entitled to your opinion of course but it just doesn't match with mine and that’s ok. I’m sure when I drop one of my tracks it may not be liked. There will be some people that may like it.

For example, I just came back from Dance tracks and like a salesman that know how much I shop gives me a handful of records to check out. Before I even hear anything he's like oh you'll like this and ooh this up your alley. Ok fine I go to one of the listening station and the end result is that I put back 90% of what was given to me why, because I didn't like all of them. But, you know what there was a guy listening to some of the same tracks I was and we kind of got to the cashier at the same time and I noticed he was buying tracks that I put back. Hhhuuumm , Just a matter of style and opinion I guest.

What I am also trying to say is there are some tracks that I don't like at first and then bam I hear it in the club and I'm like I should have not put that one back.
This is a true example and I probably get creamed for this one.
Two yrs ago I went to Chicago and heard Pevean Everett(SP) perform live "I can't believe I love her” at the Green Dolphin.

I get back to NYC and walked into Dance tracks and bump into Kim Lightfoot. We say our what’s ups and blah. After that the first thing he says is yo just buy the new Pevean E. He hands me the record and then I snatch up some others to listen too.
When it was time to buy my buddle of joy I had put PE back on the shelf cause I wasn't feeling it even though I just heard it live. Again opinions and feelings?

Now 6 months goes by and I’m hearing this song at parties and I'm dancing my ass off to it every time. Guess what? I ran to the record store to get my copy and they were out of stock. This went on for about another two months and finally I go to the label and get my copy.
The moral of the story is that sometimes you just don't feel the record when you first hear it and you may never feel a record but when its something you like you buy it.

As for kissing ass please I am a Leo and I don’t play that shit. I play that hit!

Torin your response was very noble! Once again it’s just my opinion!
graemlins/respekt.gif </font>[/QUOTE]There it is. graemlins/acclaim.gif

[john]

"Hip Hop, and R&b tunes are worked on until they are PERFECT. And they are Perfect. Perfect musically, perfect from a performance standpoint, perfect from a technical standpoint..."

"at least 90% of the house records made could probably be best described as "mediocre" at best and "garbage" at worst. Anyone who claims to be "feeling" and is actually buying more than 10% of what's out at any given time...well, I would just question what that's all about. Honestly, and taking nothing away from the artists and producers, ours has evolved (starting in the 80's) into a genre in which it's comparatively easy to produce and sell records. As a result, our scene is flooded with a lot of inferior music"


2 very true statements!!

[DJ Cheez]

Torin keep doin yo thang. I don't think what Larry said is not a personal attack against you, he just gave his opinion.You guys got to remember is that "Music is Personal" there are always gonna songs that people like and someone will find something that they don't like about it.I think maybe it just looked wrong reading it. Maybe if he called u or told u face to face it wouldn't seem as bad as it looks.

Happy Holidays

[ December 27, 2003, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: CHEEZ ]

[DJ Cheez]

Originally posted by CHEEZ:
Torin keep doin yo thang. I don't think what Larry said is not a personal attack against you, he just gave his opinion.You guys got to remember is that "Music is Personal" there are always gonna songs that people like and someone will find something that they don't like about it.I think maybe it just looked wrong reading it. Maybe if he called u or told u face to face it wouldn't seem as bad as it looks.

Happy Holidays

[Cordell]

Originally posted by Cosmic T:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cordell:
Originally posted by Cosmic T:
sorry, knuckles, gu, trent. feel better?


Get real. That's pretty shallow, but I understand why you believe that. believe what? sorry but you don't know shit about what i believe.

nice edit though. too bad i caught the first draft.

shallow indeed. but your implication that i have a narrow vision of things merited this response. if i had included those names initially, you wouldn't have gotten your panties in a bunch.

hell yeah there's a world beyond nyc. i live in it & have been witness to change & progress within my own community.

anyway i don't see the big deal. just trying to dispense some advice but you want to take it to the level of your insecurity. </font>[/QUOTE]The fact that you said that only NY jocks/producers can validate someone's material as a good record because "they" play it makes you come across as limited and shallow. Now did I misinterpret what you met?? You tell me. And the latter jocks/producers you mention don't validate anything here either.
So as far as someone being insecure you better look in the mirror.
oh yeah... graemlins/slap.gif

[ December 27, 2003, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: Cordell ]

[DJ Michael Terzian (Sinister)]

In terms of the production,.....I liked all 3. It didn't blow me away, but it would be included in one of my mixes.

The vocals, however, are another story. I personally didn't like her voice. Tac stood correct. It is definitely nasal, which is kind of annoying to listen to, but she definitely has potential. She just needs to smooth out the rustiness IMHO.

If this was an instrumental 12", it would have been more to my liking.

But then again, I only heard snippets of each cut. I would need to hear it in its entirety to really feel it.

Torin, is this your first record? If so, it's a good start. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[ December 27, 2003, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: DJ Michael Terzian (Sinister) ]

[DOTSmusic]

Originally posted by DJ Michael Terzian (Sinister):
Torin, is this your first record? If so, it's a good start. graemlins/thumbsup.gif no, it's not
http://www.thaunderground.com/subhtml/discography.htm

[DJ Michael Terzian (Sinister)]

Originally posted by aKiLa:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ Michael Terzian (Sinister):
Torin, is this your first record? If so, it's a good start. graemlins/thumbsup.gif no, it's not
http://www.thaunderground.com/subhtml/discography.htm </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks dude. I had no clue. What's up with the 5 year hiatus???

[Terry James]

Originally posted by biggrl80:
This is Jozana. I'm at my girlfriends house and for some reason i'm having trouble logging on with my own name but i agree with both sides. I like the song personally but i don't think Larry Rauson should be attacked for his opinion. He has his and i have mine. Those producers that he mentioned as being great have made many fine songs but they have all made some bullshit(to me) in their day. Torin did a nice project and i like it but Larry should have a right to blast his project. This forum should be open to criticism. If i didn't like it, I would have no qualms in telling him just like i have no qualms in praising him when i like his work. .it was previously speculated that anyone that likes "to be me" must have received a free promo...

"I know more than a couple of the jocks that have posted their opinion, and some that have yet to post will say they'll play this cut, knowing that they absolutely will not. Have some balls ladies and gentleman, is a free record worth the cost of adding to the destruction of this genre...

Merry Christmass

Larry Rauson "


you say sh*t like that and who is being attacked? C'mon man....so by Larry's account, you got the freebie

Better pm Torin and let him know that what was anticipated as a contribution is actually destroying this genre

[ December 27, 2003, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: Terry J ]

[Jozana]

Originally posted by Terry J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by biggrl80:
This is Jozana. I'm at my girlfriends house and for some reason i'm having trouble logging on with my own name but i agree with both sides. I like the song personally but i don't think Larry Rauson should be attacked for his opinion. He has his and i have mine. Those producers that he mentioned as being great have made many fine songs but they have all made some bullshit(to me) in their day. Torin did a nice project and i like it but Larry should have a right to blast his project. This forum should be open to criticism. If i didn't like it, I would have no qualms in telling him just like i have no qualms in praising him when i like his work. .it was previously speculated that anyone that likes "to be me" must have received a free promo...

"I know more than a couple of the jocks that have posted their opinion, and some that have yet to post will say they'll play this cut, knowing that they absolutely will not. Have some balls ladies and gentleman, is a free record worth the cost of adding to the destruction of this genre...

Merry Christmass

Larry Rauson "


you say sh*t like that and who is being attacked? C'mon man....so by Larry's account, you got the freebie

Better pm Torin and let him know that what was anticipated as a contribution is actually destroying this genre </font>[/QUOTE]I do agree with you Terry, that Larry was wrong for attacking the credibility of the people who liked the song. He should have left that alone.

[däp]

Originally posted by DJ Michael Terzian (Sinister):
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by aKiLa:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ Michael Terzian (Sinister):
Torin, is this your first record? If so, it's a good start. graemlins/thumbsup.gif no, it's not
http://www.thaunderground.com/subhtml/discography.htm </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks dude. I had no clue. What's up with the 5 year hiatus??? </font>[/QUOTE]decided to pursue some things to enhance my personal growth. left the camp i was with but never stopped producing or spinning.

[ December 27, 2003, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: t o r i n ]

[So easy a protic can do it (QUAD)]

Originally posted by Cosmic T:
why don't producers start a night, a listening/dancing party or a workshop where they can showcase their unreleased product.

torin, did you test market the song b4 releasing it? meaning was it given to key jocks. ie: regisford, kevorkian, claussell, morales, vega, humphries? this is a crucial step in having your stuff validated. personally if i gave product to any one of these guys & they didn't play it, i wouldn't release it. they are the barometer & a guarantee that your shit will get recognized.
HEY COSMIC, WHILE YOU HAVE A VERY VALID POINT OF "STARTING A NIGHT LISTENING/DANCING, WORKSHOP,
AND EVEN WITH GETTING YOUR SONG OR SONGS TO "KEY JOCKS", I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THE NAMES THAT YOU LISTED, ONLY WITH THE EXCEPTION OF "TIMMY RICHARDSON", AND OR "REGISFORD" BECAUSE;

1. TO MANY PEEPS HERE IN CHICAGO ALWAYS GO RUNNIN TO NYC TO THOSE GUYS TO GIVE STUFF TO AND FORSAKE THE JOCKS HERE AT HOME, AND NOT REALIZING THAT WE HERE ARE JUST AS DJ WORTHY AS THOSE THERE IN NYC.

2. WHILE "THEY" ARE THE BAROMETER OF ALOT OF THINGS THAT GETS PLAYED, GUYS LIKE GREG GRAY, EL, TORIN, CORDELL, E-PHI, JMJ, STEVE PRICE, AMONGST OTHERS HERE , "ARE" THE BAROMETER FOR WHAT GETS PLAYED HER IN CHICAGO AND ARE KEY DJS'AND I SAY THIS BECAUSE OF NO. 3.

3. "NATALIE COLE" IS IN MY OPINION (ALAN IS GONNA KILL ME FOR THIS) NOT ALL THAT GREAT OF A RECORD, IT WAS MORE OF A PERSONAL LIKING FOR THE WAY SHE DID THE VOCALS AND THE ARRANGEMENT OF THAT SONG, ACCORDING TO ALAN, WHICH LEAD HIM TO DO A DANCE MIX OF IT.

4. THE SONG WAS GIVEN TO "KEY DJ'S" HERE IN CHICAGO "FIRST" FOR A CHANGE, (ALAN THINKIN NO ONE WOULD LIKE THIS DANCE VERSION) NOW REMEMBER I SAID IT AIN'T NO PERFECT RECORD, AND WHILE ALAN DID IT ALSO FOR THE "ART OF IT", AND THOSE KEY DJ'S WENT CRAZY OVER THIS SONG, PLAYED IT IN THEIR SET WHERE EVER THEY WERE, PEEPS IN NEW YORK, JAPAN, GERMANY AND ALOT OF OTHER PLACES FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS RECORD AND ARE CRAMMING TO GET A COPY OF IT.

5. WHICH GOES TO SHOW THAT SOMETIMES IT AIN'T GOT TO BE PERFECT OR THE "MICHAEL JACKSON OF ALL DJ'S HAS TO HAVE THIS RECORD, JUST FOR IT TO BE PLAYED AND BLOW UP, AND I CAN SAY THIS CAUSE IT KEEPS "RUNNIN OUT OF STOCK IN THE STORES HERE" smile.gif

[Tony Cano]

Originally posted by DJ QUAD:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic T:
why don't producers start a night, a listening/dancing party or a workshop where they can showcase their unreleased product.

torin, did you test market the song b4 releasing it? meaning was it given to key jocks. ie: regisford, kevorkian, claussell, morales, vega, humphries? this is a crucial step in having your stuff validated. personally if i gave product to any one of these guys & they didn't play it, i wouldn't release it. they are the barometer & a guarantee that your shit will get recognized.
HEY COSMIC, WHILE YOU HAVE A VERY VALID POINT OF "STARTING A NIGHT LISTENING/DANCING, WORKSHOP,
AND EVEN WITH GETTING YOUR SONG OR SONGS TO "KEY JOCKS", I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THE NAMES THAT YOU LISTED, ONLY WITH THE EXCEPTION OF "TIMMY RICHARDSON", AND OR "REGISFORD" BECAUSE;

1. TO MANY PEEPS HERE IN CHICAGO ALWAYS GO RUNNIN TO NYC TO THOSE GUYS TO GIVE STUFF TO AND FORSAKE THE JOCKS HERE AT HOME, AND NOT REALIZING THAT WE HERE ARE JUST AS DJ WORTHY AS THOSE THERE IN NYC.

2. WHILE "THEY" ARE THE BAROMETER OF ALOT OF THINGS THAT GETS PLAYED, GUYS LIKE GREG GRAY, EL, TORIN, CORDELL, E-PHI, JMJ, STEVE PRICE, AMONGST OTHERS HERE , "ARE" THE BAROMETER FOR WHAT GETS PLAYED HER IN CHICAGO AND ARE KEY DJS'AND I SAY THIS BECAUSE OF NO. 3.

3. "NATALIE COLE" IS IN MY OPINION (ALAN IS GONNA KILL ME FOR THIS) NOT ALL THAT GREAT OF A RECORD, IT WAS MORE OF A PERSONAL LIKING FOR THE WAY SHE DID THE VOCALS AND THE ARRANGEMENT OF THAT SONG, ACCORDING TO ALAN, WHICH LEAD HIM TO DO A DANCE MIX OF IT.

4. THE SONG WAS GIVEN TO "KEY DJ'S" HERE IN CHICAGO "FIRST" FOR A CHANGE, (ALAN THINKIN NO ONE WOULD LIKE THIS DANCE VERSION) NOW REMEMBER I SAID IT AIN'T NO PERFECT RECORD, AND WHILE ALAN DID IT ALSO FOR THE "ART OF IT", AND THOSE KEY DJ'S WENT CRAZY OVER THIS SONG, PLAYED IT IN THEIR SET WHERE EVER THEY WERE, PEEPS IN NEW YORK, JAPAN, GERMANY AND ALOT OF OTHER PLACES FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS RECORD AND ARE CRAMMING TO GET A COPY OF IT.

5. WHICH GOES TO SHOW THAT SOMETIMES IT AIN'T GOT TO BE PERFECT OR THE "MICHAEL JACKSON OF ALL DJ'S HAS TO HAVE THIS RECORD, JUST FOR IT TO BE PLAYED AND BLOW UP, AND I CAN SAY THIS CAUSE IT KEEPS "RUNNIN OUT OF STOCK IN THE STORES HERE" smile.gif </font>[/QUOTE]AMEN!

[Chip_E]

Regarding the tune...it's absolutely NOT garbage, but I doubt if in years to come Torin will consider it his masterpiece. It's a fair tune that can be mixed with many other tunes, and it's actually pretty good for a first effort.
If I sound like a critic, I apologize, but this is what I think.

The off-key vocals remind me of "Like This".
Actually for no other reason than the fact that they're Off-Key. At the end of the day, House Music isn't heard as much as it's felt. House Music (at least in my opinion) is designed for the dance floor, not the listening chair.
It's all about frequencies. If the groove is right and the frequency is where you're tuned to...you'll get into to it. PERIOD.
As DJs we tend to listen to a lot of music, when we really should be feeling it instead.
Few if any of the songs I ever made were perfect in anyway, but they had (and hopefully still have) a feeling that makes people want to dance.

As to Larry's response...I saw nothing negative about it. He didn't like the tune, and that's his opinion. He expressed what he didn't like about the tune, that in itself is constructive.
Alexander Bell said, "I learn as much from my failures as I do from my successes". There's nothing wrong with making a bad record. There are a lot of people in this world that will never make a record, good or bad. As for feedback that is less than positive, I applaud Larry for having the guts and the concern to express his true feelings about the song.
I've always believed that only my mother and closest friends will tell me the what they really feel rather than what they think I want to hear. Now that doesn't mean that if you start dissin' my work that you'll be my friend...so don't even think about that ish.

How Torin reacts to this is up to him.
But we should all remember that what sometimes looks like a stumbling block, might turn out to be a stepping stone.

-e.

[Friday]

Originally posted by Chip_E:
How Torin reacts to this is up to him.
But we should all remember that what sometimes looks like a stumbling block, might turn out to be a stepping stone.

-e. Amen to that! Having just started in the producing arena, the first few tracks I have made have taken some heat, but from what I have learned, it makes you better and with a good attitude, stronger, keep up the good work Torin! ;)

[TAD]

Originally posted by DJ QUAD:
HEY COSMIC, WHILE YOU HAVE A VERY VALID POINT OF "STARTING A NIGHT LISTENING/DANCING, WORKSHOP,
AND EVEN WITH GETTING YOUR SONG OR SONGS TO "KEY JOCKS", I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THE NAMES THAT YOU LISTED, ONLY WITH THE EXCEPTION OF "TIMMY RICHARDSON", AND OR "REGISFORD" BECAUSE;

1. TO MANY PEEPS HERE IN CHICAGO ALWAYS GO RUNNIN TO NYC TO THOSE GUYS TO GIVE STUFF TO AND FORSAKE THE JOCKS HERE AT HOME, AND NOT REALIZING THAT WE HERE ARE JUST AS DJ WORTHY AS THOSE THERE IN NYC.

2. WHILE "THEY" ARE THE BAROMETER OF ALOT OF THINGS THAT GETS PLAYED, GUYS LIKE GREG GRAY, EL, TORIN, CORDELL, E-PHI, JMJ, STEVE PRICE, AMONGST OTHERS HERE , "ARE" THE BAROMETER FOR WHAT GETS PLAYED HER IN CHICAGO AND ARE KEY DJS'AND I SAY THIS BECAUSE OF NO. 3.

3. "NATALIE COLE" IS IN MY OPINION (ALAN IS GONNA KILL ME FOR THIS) NOT ALL THAT GREAT OF A RECORD, IT WAS MORE OF A PERSONAL LIKING FOR THE WAY SHE DID THE VOCALS AND THE ARRANGEMENT OF THAT SONG, ACCORDING TO ALAN, WHICH LEAD HIM TO DO A DANCE MIX OF IT.

4. THE SONG WAS GIVEN TO "KEY DJ'S" HERE IN CHICAGO "FIRST" FOR A CHANGE, (ALAN THINKIN NO ONE WOULD LIKE THIS DANCE VERSION) NOW REMEMBER I SAID IT AIN'T NO PERFECT RECORD, AND WHILE ALAN DID IT ALSO FOR THE "ART OF IT", AND THOSE KEY DJ'S WENT CRAZY OVER THIS SONG, PLAYED IT IN THEIR SET WHERE EVER THEY WERE, PEEPS IN NEW YORK, JAPAN, GERMANY AND ALOT OF OTHER PLACES FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS RECORD AND ARE CRAMMING TO GET A COPY OF IT.

5. WHICH GOES TO SHOW THAT SOMETIMES IT AIN'T GOT TO BE PERFECT OR THE "MICHAEL JACKSON OF ALL DJ'S HAS TO HAVE THIS RECORD, JUST FOR IT TO BE PLAYED AND BLOW UP, AND I CAN SAY THIS CAUSE IT KEEPS "RUNNIN OUT OF STOCK IN THE STORES HERE" smile.gif i put some names out there. by no means was it a complete list. there is no doubt regional impact plays a role but this was not my point. it was to simply give some helpful advice. also to anyone who thinks what i wrote was a blueprint, read it again. i said I would not release product if said dj’s did no program it regularly into their sets . this is a matter of opinion.

the names you listed don't mean a thing to me. no disresepect but that's just the way it is. i'm not from chicago. i'm sure they carry weight as you have pointed out but nevertheless, regardless of their stature & effort to push unreleased material b4 anyone else, the fact remains the alan smithee is one of the hottest records out now (he’s really too modest). if it wasn't, timmy et al would not be on it & all the homegrown promotion in the world wouldn't mean a thing.

chip e made the analogy of the stumbling block/stepping stone. is it gospel to release a record in order for it to go through the motions or does providing an advance cd to key people suffice? what’s the difference besides gambling 3000$ to press something that might not sell. wouldn’t it be wiser to test the market well in advance & for a determined period prior to releasing it in order to create a buzz? if said buzz does not arrive, move on to next. the experience & learning process is manifested within this framework.

releasing product that ultimately won’t sell is not an experience someone needs to go through to learn something unless they have money to burn or are careless, stubborn & foolish. releasing a track just to get your shit out there is not using common sense or good business practice. testing the market with your FINISHED product on the other hand ensures the feedback that is necessary to take the next step while preserving your bank account.

just to be sure. YOU DON’T HAVE TO RELEASE A RECORD TO GAIN EXPERIENCE IN THE WHOLE PROCESS OF MUSIC PRODUCTION. it is only a final step in an expanded evolution involving many levels of knowledge, training & expertise.

what’s the difference between a good dj & a great dj? a good dj plays good records. a great dj plays great records.

[AgentDoubleA]

The off-key vocals remind me of "Like This".
Actually for no other reason than the fact that they're Off-Key. At the end of the day, House Music isn't heard as much as it's felt. House Music (at least in my opinion) is designed for the dance floor, not the listening chair.
It's all about frequencies. If the groove is right and the frequency is where you're tuned to...you'll get into to it. PERIOD.
As DJs we tend to listen to a lot of music, when we really should be feeling it instead.
Few if any of the songs I ever made were perfect in anyway, but they had (and hopefully still have) a feeling that makes people want to dance.
Yoko Ono - Walking on thin ice
Chip E - It's House
Rolling Stones - Sympathy for the Devil


I am very confident that Torin Edmond' "To be me" will make people want to dance for many years to come.
graemlins/thumbsup.gif

All promo.s are dealt with in a personal manner. I don't deal with friends of a friend,managers or assistants to the d.j. Every d.j. that has received a promo. from me I have met in person or have conversed with (not playing phone tag). I can count on honest opinions from the U.S. and over seas. They all came back positive for "To be me". smile.gif

I have'nt been in the business 17 1/2 years - two days - one hour - and some minutes. But I have been in this board long enough to know when to p.m., start a different thread, or even call people. So much for tact. graemlins/conf44.gif

Play it loud and let the dance floor be the judge.

Hasta!!

[SMOOTH87]

Originally posted by Cosmic T:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ QUAD:
HEY COSMIC, WHILE YOU HAVE A VERY VALID POINT OF "STARTING A NIGHT LISTENING/DANCING, WORKSHOP,
AND EVEN WITH GETTING YOUR SONG OR SONGS TO "KEY JOCKS", I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THE NAMES THAT YOU LISTED, ONLY WITH THE EXCEPTION OF "TIMMY RICHARDSON", AND OR "REGISFORD" BECAUSE;

1. TO MANY PEEPS HERE IN CHICAGO ALWAYS GO RUNNIN TO NYC TO THOSE GUYS TO GIVE STUFF TO AND FORSAKE THE JOCKS HERE AT HOME, AND NOT REALIZING THAT WE HERE ARE JUST AS DJ WORTHY AS THOSE THERE IN NYC.

2. WHILE "THEY" ARE THE BAROMETER OF ALOT OF THINGS THAT GETS PLAYED, GUYS LIKE GREG GRAY, EL, TORIN, CORDELL, E-PHI, JMJ, STEVE PRICE, AMONGST OTHERS HERE , "ARE" THE BAROMETER FOR WHAT GETS PLAYED HER IN CHICAGO AND ARE KEY DJS'AND I SAY THIS BECAUSE OF NO. 3.

3. "NATALIE COLE" IS IN MY OPINION (ALAN IS GONNA KILL ME FOR THIS) NOT ALL THAT GREAT OF A RECORD, IT WAS MORE OF A PERSONAL LIKING FOR THE WAY SHE DID THE VOCALS AND THE ARRANGEMENT OF THAT SONG, ACCORDING TO ALAN, WHICH LEAD HIM TO DO A DANCE MIX OF IT.

4. THE SONG WAS GIVEN TO "KEY DJ'S" HERE IN CHICAGO "FIRST" FOR A CHANGE, (ALAN THINKIN NO ONE WOULD LIKE THIS DANCE VERSION) NOW REMEMBER I SAID IT AIN'T NO PERFECT RECORD, AND WHILE ALAN DID IT ALSO FOR THE "ART OF IT", AND THOSE KEY DJ'S WENT CRAZY OVER THIS SONG, PLAYED IT IN THEIR SET WHERE EVER THEY WERE, PEEPS IN NEW YORK, JAPAN, GERMANY AND ALOT OF OTHER PLACES FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS RECORD AND ARE CRAMMING TO GET A COPY OF IT.

5. WHICH GOES TO SHOW THAT SOMETIMES IT AIN'T GOT TO BE PERFECT OR THE "MICHAEL JACKSON OF ALL DJ'S HAS TO HAVE THIS RECORD, JUST FOR IT TO BE PLAYED AND BLOW UP, AND I CAN SAY THIS CAUSE IT KEEPS "RUNNIN OUT OF STOCK IN THE STORES HERE" smile.gif i put some names out there. by no means was it a complete list. there is no doubt regional impact plays a role but this was not my point. it was to simply give some helpful advice. also to anyone who thinks what i wrote was a blueprint, read it again. i said I would not release product if said dj’s did no program it regularly into their sets . this is a matter of opinion.

the names you listed don't mean a thing to me. no disresepect but that's just the way it is. i'm not from chicago. i'm sure they carry weight as you have pointed out but nevertheless, regardless of their stature & effort to push unreleased material b4 anyone else, the fact remains the alan smithee is one of the hottest records out now (he’s really too modest). if it wasn't, timmy et al would not be on it & all the homegrown promotion in the world wouldn't mean a thing.

chip e made the analogy of the stumbling block/stepping stone. is it gospel to release a record in order for it to go through the motions or does providing an advance cd to key people suffice? what’s the difference besides gambling 3000$ to press something that might not sell. wouldn’t it be wiser to test the market well in advance & for a determined period prior to releasing it in order to create a buzz? if said buzz does not arrive, move on to next. the experience & learning process is manifested within this framework.

releasing product that ultimately won’t sell is not an experience someone needs to go through to learn something unless they have money to burn or are careless, stubborn & foolish. releasing a track just to get your shit out there is not using common sense or good business practice. testing the market with your FINISHED product on the other hand ensures the feedback that is necessary to take the next step while preserving your bank account.

just to be sure. YOU DON’T HAVE TO RELEASE A RECORD TO GAIN EXPERIENCE IN THE WHOLE PROCESS OF MUSIC PRODUCTION. it is only a final step in an expanded evolution involving many levels of knowledge, training & expertise.

what’s the difference between a good dj & a great dj? a good dj plays good records. a great dj plays great records. </font>[/QUOTE]Has it been so long that New York records had what you can say minor inpefections so to speak...

Didn't or wasn't there a time when the early house tracks coming out or New York in the late eighties early nineties have bad notes or unbalanced mixes..

Like some of the first Blaze tracks??....

But look where they are now...??

and didn't a lot of the dj's that were listed as the one to break house music play a lot of these records back then along with so called not so perfect Chicago house??


For some reason or another it must of made people feel good or else the dj wounld not be playing it..

Who ever told you that soul has boundaries.....

[Cordell]

Originally posted by Cosmic T:


the names you listed don't mean a thing to me. no disresepect but that's just the way it is. i'm not from chicago. i'm sure they carry weight as you have pointed out but nevertheless, regardless of their stature & effort to push unreleased material b4 anyone else, the fact remains the alan smithee is one of the hottest records out now (he’s really too modest). if it wasn't, timmy et al would not be on it & all the homegrown promotion in the world wouldn't mean a thing.

Thanks for the love & 'respect'

[jimmymack-2000]

I see two important points that have been brought up:

1) Larry isn't criticizing Torin's production per se, but rather his decision as a producer to use that singer

2) The point about early house vocals is spot on. Ultra Nate's "Rejoicing," a seminal track and possibly one of the first 'gospel house' tracks, was out of tune eight ways to Sunday...

[SMOOTH87]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:


The point about early house vocals is spot on. Ultra Nate's "Rejoicing," a seminal track and possibly one of the first 'gospel house' tracks, was out of tune eight ways to Sunday... Thank you!!

[ December 29, 2003, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: SMOOTH87 ]

[Jamie 3:26]

I fear the night is a true vocal masterpiece.Torin's tune can't hold a candle to Chic's singing range and style...

[DJ George Bates]

For what this is worth....IMHO...

I like the song....I dig the original mix more than the others and I've played it ....I'm planning to play it on NYE...

Long before this post was started Torin asked me for my HONEST opinion about this record in a pm right after my infamous " 20%" comments.

I'd like to think it was because he felt i'd give him my honest opinion...I did. I dig it and others must if the record is selling out...

I also bought a double of it because I didn't want to play the Promo he gave me...

Larry's comments may not have been intended to be personal but felt a bit..IMHO.

In yeas to come Torin may or may not feel this record was a " great " one..whatever that means BUT ...it was his work.. he put it out there and i applaud that effort.

I also applaud the way he's dealt with this debate ...truly a class act.

Whatever...my 2 cents.

[TAD]

Originally posted by SMOOTH87:
Has it been so long that New York records had what you can say minor inpefections so to speak...

Didn't or wasn't there a time when the early house tracks coming out or New York in the late eighties early nineties have bad notes or unbalanced mixes..

Like some of the first Blaze tracks??....

But look where they are now...??

and didn't a lot of the dj's that were listed as the one to break house music play a lot of these records back then along with so called not so perfect Chicago house??


For some reason or another it must of made people feel good or else the dj wounld not be playing it..

Who ever told you that soul has boundaries..... i'm not talking about imperfections in a record. i'm talking about good & bad records. yes there are great records that aren't musically perfect, never said there weren't. please don't misquote me.

[TAD]

Originally posted by Cordell:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic T:


the names you listed don't mean a thing to me. no disresepect but that's just the way it is. i'm not from chicago. i'm sure they carry weight as you have pointed out but nevertheless, regardless of their stature & effort to push unreleased material b4 anyone else, the fact remains the alan smithee is one of the hottest records out now (he’s really too modest). if it wasn't, timmy et al would not be on it & all the homegrown promotion in the world wouldn't mean a thing.

Thanks for the love & 'respect' </font>[/QUOTE]acceptance of one's position in life can be inconvenient for some.

[Tony Cano]

hmmmm - what happened to Larry? graemlins/conf44.gif

[Dolemite73]

Cosmic
Your disrespect for Chicago is quite unsettling. I don't give a fuck what Timmy, Louie, et al. are playing. If Joe Shit the Rag Man was playing some hot music, and its good, then its good music. Just because Timmy and the rest of the "so called" NYC elite dj's dont play something does not mean it isnt hot. Shit I can think of a few tunes that these cats are sleeping on. Shit, we started this house shit in Chicago. A little more respect for what we bring to the scene is in order. Now let the flames begin, but I dont give a fuck.

[kev]

Props to Larry for being honest with his feelings. Even though I may not agree with everything that may be said, I do appreciate one's honesty.

[SMOOTH87]

Originally posted by Tony Cano:
hmmmm - what happened to Larry? graemlins/conf44.gif I was wondering the same thing... graemlins/conf44.gif

[DJ George Bates]

maybe he said " fuck it....."

This was definately interesting to say the least........

[AgentDoubleA]

As of today Smooth Agent Records, "Urban Rhythms Vol.II" (SAR-1002) and "To Be Me" (SAR-1003) will be available for purchase @ dustygroove.com

;)