how have the smoking laws of the past decade affected the bar/club experience?

[mjoseph]

economically?

socially?

:conf44:

[mjoseph]

A smokeasy (also spelled smoke-easy or smokeeasy) is a business, especially a barroom, which allows smoking despite a smoking ban enacted as a criminal law or an occupational safety and health regulation. Finding a smokeasy can be difficult, since the illegal nature of the operation makes it difficult to promote.[1] The word was added to the New Oxford American Dictionary in 2005,[2] although it was used as early as 1978.[3][4] It is a portmanteau of the word "smoking" with the word "speakeasy."

Contents [hide]
1 Background
2 Operations
3 Examples
3.1 New York City
3.2 Hawaii
3.3 Elsewhere
4 See also
5 References



[edit] Background
Smoking bans have been described as a type of sumptuary law (laws which attempt to regulate habits of consumption), just like the prohibition of alcohol and drug prohibition.[5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15] Such prohibitions tend to trigger underground economies.[16][17][18][19] For, when a sector of the population is prohibited by law from consuming a certain good, or consuming a certain good in a certain way, inevitably some will flout that prohibition and provide the good or the means of consuming the good in a black market fashion.[19][17] Thus, just as prohibition in the United States led to the speakeasy (establishments in which alcohol was sold in contravention of the law), so too have smoking bans led to the smokeasy.[19][17][16][18].


[edit] Operations
Some smokeasy operators simply operate openly, figuring the fines they will collect is merely a cost of doing business. Others employ stealth tactics. For example, in Philadelphia, where it is illegal to have an ashtray in the workplace, smokeasy bartenders sometimes will use cups filled with some water to serve as ashtrays.[16] A visit from the city inspector then merely requires getting customers to extinguish their smoking materials and disposing of the cigarette butts.[18]

Because smokeasies are breaking the law, usually locations are spread by word-of-mouth; they even may involve the swearing of secrecy.[18] Although some smokeasies are underground establishments[20], others are ordinary bars which in the evening covertly permit smoking.[18]


[edit] Examples

[edit] New York City
Within one month of the passage of New York City's smoking ban in 2003, smokeasies were quickly predicted.[1] Shortly thereafter, some bartenders began to hear word of smokeasies, and theorized that some former regulars who were smokers had switched to the smokeasies.[21] Today, both covert and overt smokeasies exist throughout New York City and the whole state of New York.[22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33] As a result, New York City unexpectedly has had to begin a campaign of enforcing its smoking ban: in 2005-2006, the city issued 601 citations to smokeasies, including 232 in Queens, 158 in Manhattan, 126 in Brooklyn, 73 in The Bronx and 12 in Staten Island.[19]


[edit] Hawaii
In Hawaii, a large number of establishments openly defy the statewide smoking ban, one of America's strictest, which went into effect on November 16, 2006.[34][35][36] Several bars even have reported their defiance to local newspapers and have invited television stations to film the unlawful smoking.[37] As of 2008, no bar has been fined, and open defiance continues.[37] Up to half of the bar owners in Honolulu have signed statements claiming losses averaging 30%, and expressed open concern at the anti-smoking lobby claim that it would not affect business.[34] As a result, proposals currently are before the Hawaii Legislature to exempt bars from the statewide smoking ban by creating a new type of liquor license which permits the licensee to allow smoking in his or her bar.[38]


[edit] Elsewhere
Smokeasies have become a noted phenomenon in most jurisdictions with a ban on smoking in bars and/or restaurants, including Alberta[39], Arizona[40], Boston[41], California[42][43][44], Colorado[45], Columbia, Missouri[46], Delaware[47], Dublin[48][20], Germany[49][50], Illinois[51][52], Manitoba[53][54], Minnesota[55], Ohio[56][57][58][59][60], Philadelphia[16][61][62][63], Qatar[64], Scotland[20], Seattle[18][65], Toronto[66], the United Kingdom[67][68][69][70],Thailand[71], Utah[72], and Washington, D.C..[73]

[LadyA. Acacia]

i didnt read your second post but to answer the first...

i dont think folks stopped going to bars/clubs cause they cannot smoke indoors. they didnt stop drinkin either. if anything people just went home without their hair and clothes smelling of ashtray.

[Long Island Head]

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/dashbastrd/Smoking.jpg

[candles]

if anything people just went home without their hair and clothes smelling of ashtray.

Yes and that's why it was a good law.......

[LadyA. Acacia]

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/dashbastrd/Smoking.jpg

lol. cancer can be the cure and not the problem. thats fucked up.

[DaveR]

economically?

socially?

:conf44:
In my observation, it has hurt establishments that don't have outdoor smoking areas that are an integral part of the venue.

If people walk too far away from the vibe, sometimes they never return -- they might get on their mobile phone, or get to talking on the street with someone, and head elsewhere.

[dj-chefron]

When I was back home in Chicago last month I went to visit where I use to work at the 50 Yard Line and I ask the management was they losing money because of the smoking ban and they said it was no change in revenues now granted this is a predominantly steppin club but I took that as a good sign.

[simon b]

It's been hard on some places.

It's getting slack here in Montreal now in some places. The bouncers basically warn you once "if I don't see it I won't do anything about it" type attitude.

As a DJ there's a few places that tolerate it in the booth as long as the clientele doesn't see it.

Personally I like to have a smoke with my drink, so I go to places where I can or I stay home more.

What Dave says is true also.

[mjoseph]

Personally I like to have a smoke with my drink, so I go to places where I can or I stay home more.



vancouver recently passed a smoking ban, and in germany there was a revolt this past january.

based on your comment, would you advocate the smokeasy?

[simon b]

vancouver recently passed a smoking ban, and in germany there was a revolt this past january.

based on your comment, would you advocate the smokeasy?

I patronize one now.

[mjoseph]

i didnt read your second post but to answer the first...

i dont think folks stopped going to bars/clubs cause they cannot smoke indoors. they didnt stop drinkin either.


there is a definite link between the consumption of alcohol and tobacco.

definitley people have ceased or reduced frequenting such affected establishments.

*Studies in humans have shown that nicotine decreases the sedative properties of alcohol, an effect that may promote the combined intake of the two drugs (tobacco included)

from enotalone.com

[DaveR]

and it's hard to tell the true effect of smoking bans - in most states, the ban went into effect, as the economy has been declining (in recent years) ... so decreases in bar/club spending by patrons, can't truly be linked to smoking bans IMHO

[DaveR]

there is a definite link between the consumption of alcohol and tobacco.

definitley people have ceased or reduced frequenting such affected establishments.

*Studies in humans have shown that nicotine decreases the sedative properties of alcohol, an effect that may promote the combined intake of the two drugs (tobacco included)

from enotalone.com
Definitely agree with that :respent:

[mjoseph]

Definitely agree with that :respent:

duke u news release :biggrinangel:

In tests on human volunteers, Duke University Medical Center researchers have found that even small amounts of alcohol boost the pleasurable effects of nicotine, inducing people to smoke more when drinking alcoholic beverages. The findings provide a physiological explanation for the common observation that people smoke more in bars. The findings also explain statistics showing that alcoholics tend to smoke more than non-alcoholics, and that smokers are more likely to be alcoholics.
The finding, published in the February/March 2004 issue of Nicotine and Tobacco Research, might help elucidate why those who have quit smoking often relapse while drinking alcohol. Such insights might lead to new smoking cessation methods that take the drugs' interaction into account, said Jed Rose, Ph.D., director of the Duke Nicotine Research Program and co-creator of the nicotine patch.

Such methods would be particularly useful for heavy drinkers and people with an addiction to alcohol, Rose added. The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism funded the study.

"Epidemiological, clinical, and laboratory evidence clearly indicate a behavioral link between cigarette smoking and alcohol use," Rose said. "The combined use of cigarettes and alcohol presents health risks over and above the risks posed by smoking alone, and thus constitutes a serious public health problem which deserves additional research attention. In particular, understanding the pharmacological basis of the interaction between alcohol and nicotine could lead to the development of effective strategies for treating the drugs' dual use."

Eighty to 90 percent of alcoholics smoke -- a rate three times that of the general population, he said. Moreover, the prevalence of alcoholism in smokers is 10 times higher than among nonsmokers.

One theory holds that nicotine offsets the sedative effects of alcohol. For example, studies have reported that nicotine counteracts the decline in the performance of certain visual tasks and the slowed reaction time induced by alcohol. Alternatively, using nicotine and alcohol in concert might serve to increase the feeling of pleasure associated with either drug alone. Both drugs have been shown to boost brain concentrations of dopamine -- a nerve cell messenger implicated in the positive reinforcement underlying addiction.

Neurobiological studies have yielded further conflicting evidence. Some have reported that ethanol increases the activity of the brain receptors that respond to nicotine, while others have indicated a dampened response of certain subtypes of the so-called nicotinic receptors in the presence of ethanol.

The Duke team recruited 48 regular smokers who normally drank at least four alcoholic beverages weekly. The researchers served each participant either alcoholic or placebo beverages. In one such session, individuals were provided regular cigarettes, while in another they were provided nicotine-free cigarettes as a control.

According to the participants' own ratings, ethanol enhanced many of the rewarding effects of nicotine, including satisfaction and the drug's calming effects, compared to placebo beverages. Smoking nicotine-free cigarettes did not elicit the same positive response from those receiving alcohol, the team found, indicating that nicotine itself, rather than other aspects of smoking, was the critical ingredient underlying the interaction.

"A relatively low dose of alcohol -- below that required to induce any measurable euphoria -- was enough to increase participants' enjoyment of nicotine significantly," Rose said. "In light of the current finding, it makes sense that so many people who have quit smoking relapse when they drink."

To further define the interaction between nicotine and alcohol, the researchers compared individuals' responses to nicotine after taking mecamylamine, a drug known to be a nicotine antagonist, to that indicated after alcohol use. While alcohol boosted the rewarding experience of nicotine, mecamylamine had the opposite effect. Participants smoked more initially to offset the drug's action, but reported reduced satisfaction from smoking. That result further supports the idea that ethanol serves to enhance rather than antagonize nicotine's effects, thereby encouraging their combined use, the researchers concluded.

Mecamylamine might offer a novel treatment to help smokers who also drink alcohol quit both drugs as mecamylamine has been found to counteract the effects of both nicotine and alcohol, said Rose. "Such an approach to smoking cessation would work especially well for drinkers as it would dampen both desires," he said.

[DaveR]

duke u news release :biggrinangel:

...
:lol:

[Martin Red]

the movement of people is more fluid now, that's not a good thing. You got 200 people, say half smoke, that's 100 people disappearing away from the DJ's view throughout the night at regular intervals.

any doorman given law, whether it is dress code or smoking is not good, we go out to relax, not get health and safety gestapo jock type thickos telling us where to stand. I went to a place here, Rainbow Warehouse, it's an industrial warehouse next to a railway arch, there a big space outside inbetween, I was standing right at the edge, under the railway arch ( a really high arch built in Victorian times) doorman asks me to move to the smoking area, which was the area with most human traffic, moving from one warehouse to arch to toilets etc, due to all the smokers meant that the area was packed full of people. I asked him where the smoking area started he points to one foot away from where I was standing, I take a step and blow smoke in the direction I was standing. I go out to relax, not to get the feeling "fuck off and get a proper job - like a binman you thick cunt, so what you went on a days course for this job you soft shite wannbe hitler bastard. It may be a nightclub but don't think you are cool, you may aswell be on the door at Aldi, and no I don't think you are hard in that highly reflective raver getup, you are a first aider not a fighter you fucking prick, now fuck off out my face before I set you on fire with this brandy you fucking fool, I am paying your wage, now get into that old Land Rover that needs it's oil filters changing and reflect on your self cunt "

[david_mancuso]

Thank you mjoseph for starting this thread.

ps. In Japan they approach it with fairiness to all sides (airports/resturants/clubs, etc.) Same can be done anywhere else imo.

[mjoseph]

Thank you mjoseph for starting this thread.

ps. In Japan they approach it with fairiness to all sides (airports/resturants/clubs, etc.) Same can be done anywhere else imo.

your welcome david!

just wanted to add that there still isn't any conclusive research proving second hand smoke is harmful to other adults.