They say there is no money in HOUSE... [Archive]

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liL Ray

12-09-2003, 10:12 AM

...but when I look at the professionals who have made this music their livelihood, I don't hear or see them complaining....actually, I see some doing very well....

discuss....

Cheddar

12-09-2003, 10:15 AM

It may be that the people complaining feel they are not getting the proper spoils and recognition.
There is no reason to complain.

richierich

12-09-2003, 10:15 AM

I could care less if there is money to be made in House...who said it was about money anyways??It's a party, it's having a good time, It's dimly lit basements, it's rented out lofts, it's about a good time..ya wanna make money get a job..ya wanna have fun ..then we can talk... I've never made money playing basketball but I've been playing it all my life and will continue until I can't anymore..because I love it!!!

[ December 09, 2003, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: richierich ]

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by richierich:
I could care less if there is money to be made in House...who said it was about money anyways?? what got in your bowl of cheerios this morning....who said anything about that?....that wasn't the angle I was going for.....

richierich

12-09-2003, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by richierich:
I could care less if there is money to be made in House...who said it was about money anyways?? what got in your bowl of cheerios this morning....who said anything about that?....that wasn't the angle I was going for..... [/QUOTE]Holla at me you know I'm kinda slow in the morning..I wanna understand.. :D

El Mayimbe

12-09-2003, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
...but when I look at the professionals who have made this music their livelihood, I don't hear or see them complaining....actually, I see some doing very well....

discuss.... imo its 2 reasons

#1 they've been in the game for a loooongtime so they got a headstart before this huge wave of new producers/djs came into the picture.

#2 they're not as puritanical in their sound or DJing so they adapt to what the current trend in house is and can appeal to both a crowd in the states and in Europe.

thats why they're ontop and they make $$
its all about hustling ;)

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by richierich:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by richierich:
I could care less if there is money to be made in House...who said it was about money anyways?? what got in your bowl of cheerios this morning....who said anything about that?....that wasn't the angle I was going for..... [/QUOTE]Holla at me you know I'm kinda slow in the morning..I wanna understand.. :D [/QUOTE]nah, no hidden meanings....you just came out swinging....it's all good...continue...

El Mayimbe

12-09-2003, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by richierich:
I could care less if there is money to be made in House...who said it was about money anyways??It's a party, it's having a good time, It's dimly lit basements, it's rented out lofts, it's about a good time..ya wanna make money get a job..ya wanna have fun ..then we can talk... I've never made money playing basketball but I've been playing it all my life and will continue until I can't anymore..because I love it!!! i agree with you Rich 110% but you know what, while your saying this and your having fun on the dancefloor.......someone is making a buck in these parties and its probably not u.

Cheddar

12-09-2003, 10:22 AM

Why would successful people complain?

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by EL MAYIMBE:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
...but when I look at the professionals who have made this music their livelihood, I don't hear or see them complaining....actually, I see some doing very well....

discuss.... imo its 2 reasons

#1 they've been in the game for a loooongtime so they got a headstart before this huge wave of new producers/djs came into the picture.

#2 they're not as puritanical in their sound or DJing so they adapt to what the current trend in house is and can appeal to both a crowd in the states and in Europe.

[/QUOTE]I think that #1 is a cop out statement made by the lazy ones who want only the spoils but do nothing to get "it".

#2...also debatable, but, what's wrong with that....

[ December 09, 2003, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

El Mayimbe

12-09-2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by EL MAYIMBE:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
...but when I look at the professionals who have made this music their livelihood, I don't hear or see them complaining....actually, I see some doing very well....

discuss.... imo its 2 reasons

#1 they've been in the game for a loooongtime so they got a headstart before this huge wave of new producers/djs came into the picture.

#2 they're not as puritanical in their sound or DJing so they adapt to what the current trend in house is and can appeal to both a crowd in the states and in Europe.

[/QUOTE]I think that #1 is a cop out statement made by the lazy ones who want only the spoils but do nothing to get "it".

#2...also debatable, but, what's wrong with that.... [/QUOTE]just stating what I think Ray ;)

but as for #2 I think there is something dearly wrong with so called Purists in house music.
If you dont adapt to different crowds in venues in Brooklyn, mAnhattan, london, frankfurt etc etc then your not gonna get more and more gigs.
start playing overseas and other places and see what i'm talking about.

jc808

12-09-2003, 10:32 AM

"they say there is no money in house"
tell that to larry sherman :0

Cheddar

12-09-2003, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by EL MAYIMBE:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by EL MAYIMBE:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
...but when I look at the professionals who have made this music their livelihood, I don't hear or see them complaining....actually, I see some doing very well....

discuss.... imo its 2 reasons

#1 they've been in the game for a loooongtime so they got a headstart before this huge wave of new producers/djs came into the picture.

#2 they're not as puritanical in their sound or DJing so they adapt to what the current trend in house is and can appeal to both a crowd in the states and in Europe.

[/QUOTE]I think that #1 is a cop out statement made by the lazy ones who want only the spoils but do nothing to get "it".

#2...also debatable, but, what's wrong with that.... [/QUOTE]just stating what I think Ray ;)

but as for #2 I think there is something dearly wrong with so called Purists in house music.
If you dont adapt to different crowds in venues in Brooklyn, mAnhattan, london, frankfurt etc etc then your not gonna get more and more gigs.
start playing overseas and other places and see what i'm talking about. [/QUOTE]Mayimbe you have to get their first. I dont think a declaration of willingness to adapt on arrival will get you overseas..this is another discussion.

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by EL MAYIMBE:
[QUOTE]just stating what I think Ray ;)

but as for #2 I think there is something dearly wrong with so called Purists in house music.
If you dont adapt to different crowds in venues in Brooklyn, mAnhattan, london, frankfurt etc etc then your not gonna get more and more gigs.
start playing overseas and other places and see what i'm talking about. I've always hear about these "purist" and other terms like this(years ago, "the heads" was one of those terms use to describe purist).....one question:WHO DAH FUCK ARE THESE PURIST? are these the same ones complaining about no money in our scene?

so much bullshit....

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by jc808:
"they say there is no money in house"
tell that to larry sherman :0 please add to the topic...your input(more than one line riddle) is appreciated...please 'splain...

richierich

12-09-2003, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by EL MAYIMBE:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by richierich:
I could care less if there is money to be made in House...who said it was about money anyways??It's a party, it's having a good time, It's dimly lit basements, it's rented out lofts, it's about a good time..ya wanna make money get a job..ya wanna have fun ..then we can talk... I've never made money playing basketball but I've been playing it all my life and will continue until I can't anymore..because I love it!!! i agree with you Rich 110% but you know what, while your saying this and your having fun on the dancefloor.......someone is making a buck in these parties and its probably not u. [/QUOTE]Point taken

El Mayimbe

12-09-2003, 10:45 AM

Mayimbe you have to get their first. I dont think a declaration of willingness to adapt on arrival will get you overseas..this is another discussion. [/QB]\i hear ya bro buit see I'm looking at this thread and its original question of whether any $$ is to be made in hosue music. so with that in mind the only ones i see who are seriously making some Dollars are guys who have been in this game for a longtime such as (americans) Danny Tenaglias, Roger S, Erick Morillo, MAW, even Armand Van Helden.

these guys can demand somewhere around $10,000 for DJ gigs and remixes depending on who's hot at the moment. Djs/Prioducers who are jsut banging out some great tracks now and regardless of their skills ont he decks can only command ewither half or a quarter of these salaries. Why? cause a cat in Asia or Switzerland recognize these older titnas in house music than an up & comer, yes it will tkae time but once agian staying with the original question of this thread, I'm dvulging things that I personally deal with everyday ;)

El Mayimbe

12-09-2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
question:WHO DAH FUCK ARE THESE PURIST? are these the same ones complaining about no money in our scene?

so much bullshit.... yes they are the ones not making $$

Drrtynewyork

12-09-2003, 10:52 AM

hey ray can you give us some examples of people who are making money in house?

jc808

12-09-2003, 11:01 AM

@lil ray

whoooopsadaisy;
larry sherman was the head of trax records, some say he was an innovative a/r man who got product to the street quickly, others say he ripped off the original house pioneers (fingers, chip e, marshall jefferson, etc)
he worked on a 'large amount of money upfront' basis, but no royalties

allegedly

GROOVE VICTIM

12-09-2003, 11:04 AM

The money is in DJing, not production nowadays. That's why you don't hear many who have been part of the business for many years complaining.

From a Music stand point, there's no money, that's why you have so many labels in Dire Straits. Many of the majors don't want back producers, musicians and singers in this genre for fear ofloosing any money off of projects that only sell five to ten thousand units (on a good day).

Peace

[ December 09, 2003, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: GROOVE VICTIM ]

Keith Blackstone

12-09-2003, 11:21 AM

Posted on behalf of Jeff of Diaspora Recordings:

================================================

A fascinating thread...in fact, an interesting question that demonstrates that there are observable inequities in the system within which our music lives...i'd like to pull out a few interesting quotes and wax philosophically...

"They say there is no money in HOUSE ...but when I look at the professionals who have made this music their livelihood, I don't hear or see them complaining....actually, I see some doing very well...."

There are a number of issues here...firstly, what are we defining as 'house'? is it profitable ibiza anthems? genuine deep house? organic soulful house? i've pulled up merely three differing 'styles' that incite debate on their own...but we're talking about 'livelihoods' here and not genre identification...so let's dig in: there was a time when recordings were some of the most profitable products in the marketplace...ask the majors...they'll tell you...ask alot of indies...they'll tell you as well...however, i bet you if you went to ask many of those people today, you wouldn't find them as they've moved into other areas of commerce...there's a reason that happens...when an economic system is no longer solvent and capable of sustaining its business model, you have but two alternatives in the name of survival: stay and change a bit OR flee and change alot...most people who are truly inspired by what they do (both financially and spiritually) rarely complain...because if they're not getting one, they're getting the other...so if i'm a financially motivated individual and i'm not receiving money, you're going to hear from me because i really could care less about the aesthetic beauty of music...i'm after the funds...what do people do who don't see funds where they're looking? they find another place to get funds...what do people do who don't see funds but are motivated by other things? typically, they're the ones who stick and change...there's a different purpose in mind...perhaps a pure motivation as opposed to an artificial construct of the ego

"...It may be that the people complaining feel they are not getting the proper spoils and recognition.
There is no reason to complain."

This comment similarly refers to 'complaining'...i'd have to wonder who the complaining person is in this situation...if it's a so-called hobbyist, then i'm sorry, their livelihood isn't based on this business (and it IS a business) and therefore they shouldn't be complaining...i tend to look at hobbyists as those who don't really have a structure around their activity, demonstrating an irrefutable ability to take something to the marketplace...i don't think size or scope is an issue here...it's more of an 'intention' and 'motivation' issue...business owners typically require a return on their investment whereas a hobbyist seeks only the satisfaction found within their experience...now, you might liken a business owner's financial interest manifesting that 'flee and change alot' mindset i mentioned above, though i would disagree: you can be in a market that requires more help that others will knowingly neglect...typically, there are two times when this happens: at the beginning and at the end...were people throwing millions at hip hop way way wayyyy back? nope, it was a mad fad to most - that is, of course if u remember that far back...are people throwing money at underground soul music today? in some cases yes but in most cases, no...

In traditional business circles, this would be considered a decaying market...despite the creativity and wanton desire of a select few, it isn't a mass market capable of sustaining large business structures...so smaller structures toil to create something in which they believe...their success is dependent on time and the clarity of their goals and vision...

times change...and so too must we all ...i take issue with those who feel they must compromise beyond reason, however...and, for the record, that is not a condemnation of so-called 'commercial' music - disco/dance/club/electronic or otherwise

"who said it was about money anyways??It's a party, it's having a good time, It's dimly lit basements, it's rented out lofts, it's about a good time..ya wanna make money get a job..ya wanna have fun ..then we can talk... I've never made money playing basketball but I've been playing it all my life and will continue until I can't anymore..because I love it!!!"

Think i hit on this one above...love what you do...but not many do what they love...bit circular but if you really think about it, i think most people would have to admit that they can't afford to be as uncompromising as they like..

"Why would successful people complain?"

Because things can always be better...

We live in a time where our industry is shifting constantly...however, there is a consistent move towards lower sales in units of the traditionally accepted recording mediums...and an increasing interest in new recording mediums...this would suggest that change is so painfully in the wind that, unless you're already up to speed, you're about to be swept away...

bottom line: you want complaints?
- the price of pressing vinyl is rising
- struggling artists are still struggling artists and need to pay their bills
- people with a message who deserve a voice don't always get their just platform
- the media world is shifting and, with it, our window of opportunity
- i don't believe in complaining about these things...it's our duty to change what we don't like

you want to talk about people not making enough cash in house music?
- it's true
- i can't speak for all labels but i know that we're on a mission to continue putting out music by artists you might not know...that costs money and doesn't always see your pocket lined afterwards...no complaints, plain truth
- do some djs make more than others? of course...do some baseball players make more than others? of course
- do some labels sell more units than others? of course...do small labels deserve to sell that many units if their structure isn't developed? of course NOT...build the system and reap the rewards...otherwise, work till you get what you deserve

someone told me a long time ago that music is one of the easiest businesses to enter and one of the hardest in which to remain...i think there's a whole host of reasons why this is true...not for the fainthearted and not for those who lack determination

respect

J

(updated for spelling)

[ December 09, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Keith Blackstone ]

Bill Blake

12-09-2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
hey ray can you give us some examples of people who are making money in house? Duh??????????????????????????

And where the fuck do you work?

GROOVE VICTIM

12-09-2003, 11:26 AM

Thank you Keith for posting this very informative response!!!

graemlins/beerchug.gif

Peace

jimmymack-2000

12-09-2003, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by jc808:
@lil ray

whoooopsadaisy;
larry sherman was the head of trax records, some say he was an innovative a/r man who got product to the street quickly, others say he ripped off the original house pioneers (fingers, chip e, marshall jefferson, etc)
he worked on a 'large amount of money upfront' basis, but no royalties

allegedly That was over 15 years ago...there was a lot of money in house then!

Keith Blackstone

12-09-2003, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Thank you Keith for posting this very informative response!!!

graemlins/beerchug.gif

Peace The truth needed to be known... good lookin out on your post as well smile.gif

Shalewa

12-09-2003, 11:35 AM

The folks complaining loudest about the economic challenges are not purists, they are folks wondering how they can be put down, El Mayimbe has a point when he notes that established personalities are not beefing much about the status quo from a pocketbook perspective. It is also worth noting that folks with hustle and/or vision who are actually producing and promoting events may be struggling, but are seldom complaining. Most recording artists make more from public performance than from royalties from retail sales so it follows that DJ gigs pay more than production. I don't think most DJs able to work abroad are making major compromises in their creative approaches to reach the overseas audience. Indeed all that I have spoken with, speak of being able to be MORE true to their sounds when playing for audiences they perceive as being more receptive to their ART.

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by Keith Blackstone:
Posted on behalf of Jeff of Diaspora Recordings:

================================================

A fascinating thread...in fact, an interesting question that demonstrates that there are observable inequities in the system within which our music lives...i'd like to pull out a few interesting quotes and wax philosophically...

"They say there is no money in HOUSE ...but when I look at the professionals who have made this music their livelihood, I don't hear or see them complaining....actually, I see some doing very well...."

There are a number of issues here...firstly, what are we defining as 'house'? is it profitable ibiza anthems? genuine deep house? organic soulful house? i've pulled up merely three differing 'styles' that incite debate on their own...but we're talking about 'livelihoods' here and not genre identification...so let's dig in: there was a time when recordings were some of the most profitable products in the marketplace...ask the majors...they'll tell you...ask alot of indies...they'll tell you as well...however, i bet you if you went to ask many of those people today, you wouldn't find them as they've moved into other areas of commerce...there's a reason that happens...when an economic system is no longer solvent and capable of sustaining its business model, you have but two alternatives in the name of survival: stay and change a bit OR flee and change alot...most people who are truly inspired by what they do (both financially and spiritually) rarely complain...because if they're not getting one, they're getting the other...so if i'm a financially motivated individual and i'm not receiving money, you're going to hear from me because i really could care less about the aesthetic beauty of music...i'm after the funds...what do people do who don't see funds where they're looking? they find another place to get funds...what do people do who don't see funds but are motivated by other things? typically, they're the ones who stick and change...there's a different purpose in mind...perhaps a pure motivation as opposed to an artificial construct of the ego

"...It may be that the people complaining feel they are not getting the proper spoils and recognition.
There is no reason to complain."

This comment similarly refers to 'complaining'...i'd have to wonder who the complaining person is in this situation...if it's a so-called hobbyist, then i'm sorry, there livelihood isn't based on this and therefore they shouldn't be complaining...i tend to look at hobbyists as those who don't really have a structure around their activity demonstrating an irrefutable ability to take something to the marketplace...i don't think size or scope is an issue here...it's more of an 'intention' and 'motivation' issue...business owners typically require a return on their investment whereas a hobbyist seeks only the satisfaction found within their experience...now, you might liken that business owners interest in a return being like that 'flee and change alot' person i mentioned above but i would disagree: you can be in a market that requires more help that others will knowingly neglect...typically, there are two times where this happens: at the beginning and at the end...were people throwing millions at hip hop way way wayyyy back? nope, it was a fad to most...if u remember that far back...are people throwing money at underground soul music? in some cases yes but in most cases, no...

In traditional business circles, this would be considered a decaying market...despite the creativity and wanton desire of a select few, it isn't a mass market capable of sustaining large business structures...

times change...and so to must we all ...i take issue with those who feel they must compromise beyond reason, however...and that is not a judgement of so-called 'commercial' music

"who said it was about money anyways??It's a party, it's having a good time, It's dimly lit basements, it's rented out lofts, it's about a good time..ya wanna make money get a job..ya wanna have fun ..then we can talk... I've never made money playing basketball but I've been playing it all my life and will continue until I can't anymore..because I love it!!!"

Think i hit on this one above...love what you do...but not many do what they love...bit circular but if you really think about it, i think most people would have to admit that they can't afford to be as uncompromising as they like..

"Why would successful people complain?"

Because things can always be better...

We live in a time where our industry is shifting constantly...however, there is a consistent move towards lower sales in units of the traditionally accepted recording mediums...and an increasing interest in new recording mediums...this would suggest that change is so painfully in the wind that, unless you're already up to speed, you're about to be swept away...

bottom line: you want complaints?
- the price of pressing vinyl is rising
- struggling artists are still struggling artists
- people with a message who deserve a voice don't always get their just platform
- the media world is shifting
- i don't believe in complaining about these things...it's our duty to change what we don't like

you want to talk about people not making enough cash in house music?
- it's true
- i can't speak for all labels but i know that we're on a mission to continue putting out music by artists you might not know...that costs money and doesn't always see your pocket lined afterwards...plain truth
- do some djs make more than others? of course...do some baseball players make more than others? of course
- do some labels sell more units than others? of course...do small labels deserve to sell that many units if their structure isn't developed? of course NOT...build the system and reap the rewards...otherwise, work till you get what you deserve

someone told me a long time ago that music is one of the easiest businesses to enter and one of the hardest to remain in...i think there's a whole host of reasons why this is true...not for the fainthearted and not for those who lack determination

respect

J Jeff, thanks for the well thought out response....as far as the term HOUSE, I only talk about what I'm familiar with...I don't know what those crappy magazine categorize it as now, but I know it whaen I hear it, and so do you, because Large put out an abundance of the good sh8....

I especially like this quote from your response...i tend to look at hobbyists as those who don't really have a structure around their activity demonstrating an irrefutable ability to take something to the marketplace...this sums up most of us, present company included, and will only piss those off who are not true to themselves.

respect to you and thank you......

Drrtynewyork

12-09-2003, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
hey ray can you give us some examples of people who are making money in house? Duh??????????????????????????

And where the fuck do you work? [/QUOTE]Is your name ray?? shut up! besides im sure ray means producer/djs

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
hey ray can you give us some examples of people who are making money in house? Duh??????????????????????????

And where the fuck do you work? [/QUOTE]Is your name ray?? shut up! besides im sure ray means producer/djs [/QUOTE]heah Doug, what Lennox said...duh!!....I expected more than that from you than the name names crap....you sound like one of those dopes from that **** board.....

Keith Blackstone

12-09-2003, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
Jeff, thanks for the well thought out response....as far as the term HOUSE, I only talk about what I'm familiar with...I don't know what those crappy magazine categorize it as now, but I know it whaen I hear it, and so do you, because Large put out an abundance of the good sh8....

I especially like this quote from your response...i tend to look at hobbyists as those who don't really have a structure around their activity demonstrating an irrefutable ability to take something to the marketplace...this sums up most of us, present company included, and will only piss those off who are not true to themselves.

respect to you and thank you...... [/QB]Large??? I posted at the top of my posting... Jeff @ Diaspora Recordings... or was your reference to Large on purpose and meaning Jeff @ Large?

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Keith Blackstone:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
Jeff, thanks for the well thought out response....as far as the term HOUSE, I only talk about what I'm familiar with...I don't know what those crappy magazine categorize it as now, but I know it whaen I hear it, and so do you, because Large put out an abundance of the good sh8....

I especially like this quote from your response...i tend to look at hobbyists as those who don't really have a structure around their activity demonstrating an irrefutable ability to take something to the marketplace...this sums up most of us, present company included, and will only piss those off who are not true to themselves.

respect to you and thank you...... Large??? I posted at the top of my posting... Jeff @ Diaspora Recordings... or was your reference to Large on purpose and meaning Jeff @ Large? [/QB][/QUOTE]sorry, I made a mistake....yes, I'm also human...Is that all you saw, a chance to take a swipe at me....

Drrtynewyork

12-09-2003, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
hey ray can you give us some examples of people who are making money in house? Duh??????????????????????????

And where the fuck do you work? [/QUOTE]Is your name ray?? shut up! besides im sure ray means producer/djs [/QUOTE]heah Doug, what Lennox said...duh!!....I expected more than that from you than the name names crap....you sound like one of those dopes from that **** board..... [/QUOTE]why is that ? i want to know who you think or know makes money? besides the usual names like MAW, BLAZE, etc.

figures you 2 old farts would stick together :D

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
hey ray can you give us some examples of people who are making money in house? Duh??????????????????????????

And where the fuck do you work? [/QUOTE]Is your name ray?? shut up! besides im sure ray means producer/djs [/QUOTE]heah Doug, what Lennox said...duh!!....I expected more than that from you than the name names crap....you sound like one of those dopes from that **** board..... [/QUOTE]why is that ? i want to know who you think or know makes money? besides the usual names like MAW, BLAZE, etc.

figures you 2 old farts would stick together :D [/QUOTE]one day you'll be an old fart also.....oh, and, DUH!!!

Keith Blackstone

12-09-2003, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
sorry, I made a mistake....yes, I'm also human...Is that all you saw, a chance to take a swipe at me.... If I took a swipe at you, I would have written RIF... which I did not.

No swipes...

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Keith Blackstone:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
sorry, I made a mistake....yes, I'm also human...Is that all you saw, a chance to take a swipe at me.... If I took a swipe at you, I would have written RIF... which I did not.

No swipes... [/QUOTE]no problem...

Drrtynewyork

12-09-2003, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
hey ray can you give us some examples of people who are making money in house? Duh??????????????????????????

And where the fuck do you work? [/QUOTE]Is your name ray?? shut up! besides im sure ray means producer/djs [/QUOTE]heah Doug, what Lennox said...duh!!....I expected more than that from you than the name names crap....you sound like one of those dopes from that **** board..... [/QUOTE]why is that ? i want to know who you think or know makes money? besides the usual names like MAW, BLAZE, etc.

figures you 2 old farts would stick together :D [/QUOTE]one day you'll be an old fart also.....oh, and, DUH!!! [/QUOTE]im actually older than the whiney old lady lennox graemlins/grinyes.gif

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by liL Ray:
[qb] [QUOTE] im actually older than the whiney old lady lennox graemlins/grinyes.gif I know, I was trying to cover for you in this business call House...hahahahaaha...actually, I think that ugly ass tatoo of yours uglier than most new snot nose djs entering this game....

heah, stop hijacking my thread....

continue....

[ December 09, 2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

larry rauson

12-09-2003, 12:08 PM

Let me offer my wisdom, but not my two cents cuz I can't afford it...there is money in so called house music, but if you look at the mathematics of the game, those making real money are doing a tremendous amount of work... If there was real money in the music do you think there would be such a glut of terrible music on the market, doe you think there would be fourty fifty or sixty tunes a year by your favorite producers? Whats missig in house music deeper thought.

Larry "The Broke Legend" Rauson

Kim B

12-09-2003, 12:48 PM

I've been reading the previous post, some I dont agree with but the one thing I do agree on is that "NO" I dont see any real money in House music.
My first record came out in "91", it charted in billboard as well as other music forums. Tony Humpries played the hell out of my track, as well as other DJ's playing the NY radio circuit, and now some would consider this track a "Classic" house tune (Trouble-111East Records). As I've stated in other post the "only" way to be paid (royalties) in this genre of music is to be one of the writers/producers. Today it seems a little twisted, you have DJ's as the "Headliners" making all the loot. To me they just play the music, they had nothing to do with the creation of it. graemlins/stupid.gif

liL Ray

12-09-2003, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by Kim B:
As I've stated in other post the "only" way to be paid (royalties) in this genre of music is to be one of the writers/producers. Today it seems a little twisted, you have DJ's as the "Headliners" making all the loot. To me they just play the music, they had nothing to do with the creation of it. graemlins/stupid.gif so, somebody is making money....thanks for your input.....you are right, see the post below also...

http://deephousepage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=042074

larry rauson

12-09-2003, 01:01 PM

Hey Kim, how come we never hooked up?

Larry Rauson

Koffy Brown

12-09-2003, 01:08 PM

Kim B

12-09-2003, 01:08 PM

Nothing like the present Larry!!!!!!!!!!!
Send me a private message with your info.
Peace.
Kim ;)

mdpm99

12-09-2003, 01:32 PM

"someone told me a long time ago that music is one of the easiest businesses to enter and one of the hardest in which to remain...i think there's a whole host of reasons why this is true...not for the fainthearted and not for those who lack determination."

--JMNYC

graemlins/cool_shades.gif

Well said J.

d.

richierich

12-09-2003, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by richierich:
I could care less if there is money to be made in House...who said it was about money anyways??It's a party, it's having a good time, It's dimly lit basements, it's rented out lofts, it's about a good time..ya wanna make money get a job..ya wanna have fun ..then we can talk... I've never made money playing basketball but I've been playing it all my life and will continue until I can't anymore..because I love it!!! When are you coming down with Boo Williams...? [/QUOTE]Shit I gotta ask him when he's doing it again..He & I talked about it and just forgot about it.

housedeep

12-09-2003, 04:19 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by david mancuso:
[QB] "someone told me a long time ago that music is one of the easiest businesses to enter and one of the hardest in which to remain...i think there's a whole host of reasons why this is true...not for the fainthearted and not for those who lack determination."

--JMNYC

very nice
thank you david

Keith Blackstone

12-09-2003, 06:33 PM

mdpm99

12-09-2003, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by Keith Blackstone:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
"someone told me a long time ago that music is one of the easiest businesses to enter and one of the hardest in which to remain...i think there's a whole host of reasons why this is true...not for the fainthearted and not for those who lack determination."

--JMNYC

graemlins/cool_shades.gif

Well said J.

d. Umm Dave... The J from that posting refers to Jeff from Diaspora Recordings.... not Jon Martin (JMNYC)... [/QUOTE]got it.....

smile.gif

d

Nege

12-10-2003, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
...but when I look at the professionals who have made this music their livelihood, I don't hear or see them complaining....actually, I see some doing very well....

discuss.... I think tha fact that you can't make money in this music applies to what is going on today more than anything.
Chances are that those you talk about were doing this in the 80s and the early nineties when it easy to make dollars making this music and it was accepted by more people.
things are different now especially for people who came out in the late 90s or even now for that matter.
Example=MAW MADE their money in the early ninties doing all those remixes for majors and later on invested in other things like a "label" a "studio" that OTHER people can work out of and Endorsments in Keyboard magazines(I'm pretty sure that they got paid for that).In other words they did other things outside of making tracks for indies and doing remixes so that at the end of all of this they'd still have a life in the buisness Today(2003....Now Being label owners and studio owners)
they probably sell a half decent amount of records form their label today but the money they make individually is more from DJing than anything else...............not record sales.
also,
the amount of releases coming out now is even less and slower than in the past two years.that is a good thing people are starting to be careful these days with the quantity and quality of what they are releasing cuz of the hard times.

I have also noticed that labels seem to be giving SMALLER advances compared to the advances that they would give ten years ago.
whatever money that might be made today is nothing in comparison to before.
Also in the 80s up to the mid 90s, the music used to get licensed or distribution deals by bigger companies so "somebody" in the indy market was making some kind of money whether it was the producer ,label owner or even MAYBE the artist.
this doesn't happen anymore.
QUESTION:
If "Colonel Abrams" came out with "Trapped"or I'm Not Gonne Let" today
do think it would still be on MCA/UNIVERSAL with T. Regisford mixes????????
Or
Would "so Special" by Blaze be on MOTOWN if it was released last week?

My answer is no.

[ December 10, 2003, 04:19 AM: Message edited by: Nege ]

GROOVE VICTIM

12-10-2003, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Nege:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
...but when I look at the professionals who have made this music their livelihood, I don't hear or see them complaining....actually, I see some doing very well....

discuss.... I think tha fact that you can't make money in this music applies to what is going on today more than anything.
Chances are that those you talk about were doing this in the 80s and the early nineties when it easy to make dollars making this music and it was accepted by more people.
things are different now especially for people who came out in the late 90s or even now for that matter.
Example=MAW MADE their money in the early ninties doing all those remixes for majors and later on invested in other things like a "label" a "studio" that OTHER people can work out of and Endorsments in Keyboard magazines(I'm pretty sure that they got paid for that).

[/QUOTE]This is the key. We must remember that many producers had the backing of a major label in the
late 80s and early to mid 90s.

For Example:

Blaze = Motown
Basement Boys = Mercury
Kerri Chandler = Atlantic
Roger S = Epic
Masters at Work = Atlantic
Jovonn = Warner Brothers

These producers were able to do remixes, create original material, and albums on these labels. Plus there was enough money coming in from the Indy labels that a safety net was established. I bet you that if this was the case today, we wouldn't see many of these producers going out on as many DJ gigs as they are now.

Peace

[ December 10, 2003, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: GROOVE VICTIM ]

Nege

12-10-2003, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nege:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
...but when I look at the professionals who have made this music their livelihood, I don't hear or see them complaining....actually, I see some doing very well....

discuss.... I think tha fact that you can't make money in this music applies to what is going on today more than anything.
Chances are that those you talk about were doing this in the 80s and the early nineties when it easy to make dollars making this music and it was accepted by more people.
things are different now especially for people who came out in the late 90s or even now for that matter.
Example=MAW MADE their money in the early ninties doing all those remixes for majors and later on invested in other things like a "label" a "studio" that OTHER people can work out of and Endorsments in Keyboard magazines(I'm pretty sure that they got paid for that).

[/QUOTE]This is the key. We must remember that many producers had the backing of a major label in the
late 80s and early to mid 90s.

For Example:

Blaze = Motown
Basement Boys = Mercury
Kerri Chandler = Atlantic
Roger S = Epic
Masters at Work = Atlantic
Jovonn = Warner Brothers

Peace [/QUOTE]lets not forget Bas Noir Produced by Burrel.
on Atlantic
with Kerri Chandler mixes to boot.(Shoo-Be-Doo)
Ceybil Jeffries On Atlantic
Micheal Watford on Warner Bros.(east west)
Ten City On Warner Bros.
all in the past but not today,
some have survived and are "doing well" today .

[ December 10, 2003, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Nege ]

The Buddy Love Show

12-10-2003, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
"someone told me a long time ago that music is one of the easiest businesses to enter and one of the hardest in which to remain...i think there's a whole host of reasons why this is true...not for the fainthearted and not for those who lack determination."

--JMNYC

graemlins/cool_shades.gif

Well said J.

d. Check out the big brain on Jon Martin...1000% correct. Most people don't have the balls to be winners and are comfortable wallowing in the mud of mediocrity

From an "inspirational " poster which I saw today and copied:.."Nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent...Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

and from another..."Determination today leads to success tomorrow"

Ya wanna be a winner?..THEN BE A WINNER! its just that fucking simple

Keith Blackstone

12-10-2003, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
"someone told me a long time ago that music is one of the easiest businesses to enter and one of the hardest in which to remain...i think there's a whole host of reasons why this is true...not for the fainthearted and not for those who lack determination."

--JMNYC

graemlins/cool_shades.gif

Well said J.

d. Check out the big brain on Jon Martin...1000% correct. Most people don't have the balls to be winners and are comfortable wallowing in the mud of mediocrity

From an "inspirational " poster which I saw today and copied:.."Nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent...Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

and from another..."Determination today leads to success tomorrow"

Ya wanna be a winner?..THEN BE A WINNER! its just that fucking simple [/QUOTE]Magas... that quote was from Jeff from Diaspora Recordings... not Jon Martin...

I still don't get how people are getting/quoting/etc everybody "but" Jeff from Diaspora who actually said it...

c'est la vie...

JMNYC

12-26-2003, 06:35 PM

okay, I JUST saw this and had to laugh... I agree with Jeff's statement wholeheartedly, but I didn't make it (although it does sound like something I might say).

the 18th letter

12-26-2003, 09:51 PM

If you are into house for the money I got a bridge you buy real cheap with a beautiful skyline! But for real, you can get paid, but don't start pricing sports teams or anything.

music

12-27-2003, 12:27 AM

alright lil ray , go for yours ,brother, give them fever. let them know wher you are at. i got your back. bring it.

Sam The Man Burns

12-27-2003, 04:20 AM

la verde

12-27-2003, 04:46 PM