Loft Classics/Dance Tracks [Archive] - Deep House Page Forums

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by Albert D.:
I'll admit I have a few of those that I picked up at a local store for about $1 each. I couldn't pass up the deal. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/hidesbehindsofa.gif Greetings Albert D:

I totally understand your need for the music. But there are profits being made here on other people's loss.....the musicians for one. Also to
tag the good name of the Loft in such a manner is misleading and wrong.

Why not simply do it the right way. These folks are not poor. They have the resources and could do it right and be more original with their project(s).
I respect the musicians and they should be supported. Even if I receive a record free and I use it for my parties I will still go out and buy a copy to support the artists. They have to feed their children and buy musical instruments.

As for any excuse, it is still a bad pie no matter what kind of topping one puts on it.

This is how we poison the well when we do not respect each other.

d

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Sensei Melei-1010:
Not Loftwerks... Greetings Sensei Melei-1010:

Loftwerk was cool....the objection was, using "Loft" as the name of the record label.

d

06-16-2003, 01:13 PM

damn...how DO they get away with this?!?! :eek:

GROOVE VICTIM

06-16-2003, 01:15 PM

I am also guilty of owning about 5 of these 12s myself. It wasn't until Mr. Mancuso began to post on this message board that I learned that they were in no relation to The Loft and Mr. Mancuso himself.

Peace

'Magic' Juan

06-16-2003, 01:16 PM

Wasn't this brought up earlier in the year? I can't believe they still went ahead and used the Loft name after all the commotion it caused. Complete lack of respect, IMO. graemlins/jpshakehead.gif Time to call in Johnny C?

magic_juan :rolleyes:

[ June 16, 2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: magic_juan ]

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
damn...how DO they get away with this?!?! :eek: Well, for one reason ....people buy into it and it becomes costly for folks like myself to pursue legal steps.

However, there are regular laws that prohibit this. A lot times, for example, a record co will not pursue it because a record store sells their "regular product," i.e. they all sleep in the same bed for the most part.

d
d

[ June 16, 2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

Drrtynewyork

06-16-2003, 01:20 PM

hi David..

do you believe the retailers are equally guilty for selling these bootlegs?

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-16-2003, 01:21 PM

It's kinda funny.

I actually have the "The Loft 2" 4pack on Nuphoniq(?) that came out some time ago, but I also have at least 2-3 of the "Loft Classics". I'm sorry but I had to have "Funknova". This was before the "Wood, Brass and Steel" reissue.

I don't do mp3 downloads, BUT I've got a BUNCH of bootleg vinyl. I hope my karma isn't too messed-up. I'm actually being kinda serious when I say this.

To paraphrase what DM said, "I needed the music." graemlins/conf44.gif

Know what? I actually kinda blame the record companies for letting all this good music just sit in their damn corporate vaults and collect dust!!! mad1.gif

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 01:23 PM

Is it also shame on the consumer who have been buying these? Are they involve in the sham? Is the prob with Dance Tracks or with the Loft Classic label and its distributors?

Just questions, because most of us (including the top name djs) have been purchasing these since 1985....and it's not just Dance Tracks that sell these...you can find these in any dance music store...even Beat Street on Fulton Street in Brooklyn.

This also brings up another question which have been discussed here before....what should a consumer do when they want the music, look everywhere for the original, try to be true to the original, but the original isn't to be found or the label won't re-issue or print anymore because it is not profitable to them? What should said consumer do when they ccome across a bootleg of the music they have been looking for for years? What should a new person getting into this music do?

Again, is the problem with the music being sold, the Loft name being used, the record store selling it, the people buying it, or the fact that it is a bootleg?

david, as a person who treasury people's free will, how can you stop the supply when the people's demand is high?

Oh, and for all those who are gonna say we shouldn't buy it or boycott Dance Tracks, make sure your conscience is clean and so is your crates of these and other bootlegs. My conscience is clean, I have no problem buying bootlegs.

...just another side...

06-16-2003, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
It wasn't until Mr. Mancuso began to post on this message board that I learned that they were in no relation to The Loft and Mr. Mancuso himself.

Peace Same goes for me. I used to think they were related somehow because of the name (Loft Classics) and the loft babies (i.e. the little rascals/our gang) on the cover. I was kinda expecting a worse beating from David. whew! ;)

Sensei Melei

06-16-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sensei Melei-1010:
Not Loftwerks... Greetings Sensei Melei-1010:

Loftwerk was cool....the objection was, using "Loft" as the name of the record label.

d [/QUOTE]It's all love over here David...

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
hi David..

do you believe the retailers are equally guilty for selling these bootlegs? Greetings DOUG GOMEZ:

Anyone involved from a to z is being unethical.

One should not support this because it happens to often to many artists. They can do it the right way if they really wanted too. This is about GREED.

First of all, for what they invest into them, which is very little, ...their selling price -- is much too high and not fair to the consumer.

d

[ June 16, 2003, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
damn...how DO they get away with this?!?! :eek: because of supply and demand...and they(the bootleg label) have been selling these for well over ten years under the same name.

Doug

06-16-2003, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
This also brings up another question which have been discussed here before....what should a consumer do when they want the music, look everywhere for the original, try to be true to the original, but the original isn't to be found or the label won't re-issue or print anymore because it is not profitable to them? What should said consumer do when they ccome across a bootleg of the music they have been looking for for years? What should a new person getting into this music do?
This is crux of the issue right here. Well said Ray.

Jamie 3:26

06-16-2003, 01:28 PM

To continue on a point Ray was making,I am not a record geek.I can not shell out the loot for originals of some of these cuts.So,if there's a cut booted up and the pressing is fair,I will buy it.

If I ever release something and it gets booted,comes with the territory.Supply and demand.If I ever get the cahnce to get a hold of a preess,I would put a lot of shit out.Sorry,there's tons of shit I can not purchase anymore,some tunes from 6 months to a year ago.I know I am not alone in this either.

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-16-2003, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
To continue on a point Ray was making,I am not a record geek.I can not shell out the loot for originals of some of these cuts.So,if there's a cut booted up and the pressing is fair,I will buy it.

If I ever release something and it gets booted,comes with the territory.Supply and demand.If I ever get the cahnce to get a hold of a preess,I would put a lot of shit out.Sorry,there's tons of shit I can not purchase anymore,some tunes from 6 months to a year ago.I know I am not alone in this either. I agree! For example, one thing I like about some of the Detroit guys is that they tend to KEEP their records in circulation. If someone wants it, they're damn sure gonna sell it. Now it may not be well distributed, but it IS still available. I LIKE knowing I can go to Record Time or contact Submerge and still get something.

While hunting for records can be fun at times, there are some times you don't wanna have to go through all that trouble.

[ June 16, 2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: toomuchtv ]

06-16-2003, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
I can not shell out the loot for originals of some of these cuts.So,if there's a cut booted up and the pressing is fair,I will buy it.

Sorry,there's tons of shit I can not purchase anymore,some tunes from 6 months to a year ago.I know I am not alone in this either. I can completely relate to what you're saying and you are not alone on this. I think many people just wanna keep quiet and I'm sure most (if not all) the members on this board have a few boots in their collection.

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-16-2003, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Albert D.:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
I can not shell out the loot for originals of some of these cuts.So,if there's a cut booted up and the pressing is fair,I will buy it.

Sorry,there's tons of shit I can not purchase anymore,some tunes from 6 months to a year ago.I know I am not alone in this either. I can completely relate to what you're saying and you are not alone on this. I think many people just wanna keep quiet and I'm sure most (if not all) the members on this board have a few boots in their collection. [/QUOTE]I've probably got more than a few... http://deephousepage.com/smilies/hidesbehindsofa.gif

Then again, I've spent more than my fair share of time AND MONEY on ebay and GEMM.

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 01:41 PM

Building from Jamie 3:26 point of can't getting music that has been release 6months, since most of these independent labels know the demand is higher now than any other time, it seems that more and more when there is a hot record, it is pressed in very limited quantity and later on you will see a bootleg of the product...WTF?....who is doing this...label?...artist?....the only people who get hurt is the consumer....so can you wrong the consumer for saying **** it?

I usually agree with most of your other points, david, and in a perfect world I would agree with you here, but we are not in a perfect world where we can go to the store, web, or distributor and get what we want, so I have to disagree with your point. Until the record companies find a way to kill the demand (putting out the product), then this will continue. My conscience is clear so I don't blow a gasket over it.

Sounds like we are talking aout weed or back in the '20s discussing the right or wrong of buying bootleg liquor.....hmmmmm

[ June 16, 2003, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
damn...how DO they get away with this?!?! :eek: because of supply and demand...and they(the bootleg label) have been selling these for well over ten years under the same name. [/QUOTE]Greetings liL Ray:

I will not get into the original story at this time re Loft Classics when I was approached about it in 84-85 (which was when it started). All I will say is this. Even though I declined to get involved in the project (bad karma man!) they still did it anyway USING THE NAME THE LOFT/and the Loft invitation card (public domain) TOGETHER.

And that is my basic objection to this whole thing.

Find an original copy of something you like and see if you can press it up for your own use....that I believe is a cool way to obtain the music you are looking for.

It is one thing to buy bootlegs (I actually understand that) it is another to bring the Loft's good name and spirit into it. Use another name of some sort.....

d

Jamie 3:26

06-16-2003, 01:44 PM

I got alot of my earlly classics on boots,like a lot of other Chicago jocks,including Frankie and Ronnie,Lost Records were boots remember?

When I could find out the ifo on artist and so forth,if I ran into an orignal copy,that was not taxin on the price,I would get it.

Then again,that's why I am happy when something is re-released,on a comp or an re-issue.

Cheddar

06-16-2003, 01:46 PM

Problem I see is using the "Loft" term.
Beyond that they are just another bootleg.

simon b

06-16-2003, 01:51 PM

David, this is an interesting post. When I first saw these, I could tell they were boots due to the pressing, packaging etc. The thing was I thought it was the Loft that was doing them! How messed up is that? graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

After having been here for a while I deduced that there is no way you could have had anything to do with such an operation.

I bought the Funkanova one in NYC a few years ago and hated the pressing so I never bought any others.

I did pick up both the Loft sets on Nuphonic, a much better value all things considered.

Generally I only buy boots of unauthorized remixes, not completely ethical but a least in most cases the remixer is doing something creative. Not just repressing and ripping off the artists. These versions are often some of the hottest items in my crates because of their scarcity and dancefloor reaction to a new twist on something familiar.

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-16-2003, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by 1343:
Problem I see is using the "Loft" term.
Beyond that they are just another bootleg. Yeah, I'm thinking David just doesn't want the "Loft" name/concept tied in with some bootlegs.

Then if that's the case David, when are you gonna do "The Loft" volume 3? :D I've got voulme 2, I still need to get volume one, but I'd happily buy volume 3, hint hint... ;)

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
[QUOTE]
I will not get into the original story at this time re Loft Classics when I was approached about it in 84-85 (which was when it started). All I will say is this. Even though I declined to get involved in the project (bad karma man!) they still did it anyway USING THE NAME THE LOFT/and the Loft invitation card (public domain) TOGETHER.

And that is my basic objection to this whole thing. d Then your fight is with the source, the original guys, not the offsprings....not the record store...it's difficult to now tell the public to not do something that feels so good to them...it's not our fight.

Cut off the head....

The Donger

06-16-2003, 02:04 PM

While I agree with you on many points David, you should also realize that some good has come out of this bootleg series.

I think my entire generation learned a lot about the loft's music, "the older dance music that is the blueprint for today" through this bootleg series in particular.

From there many people did more research on thier own to find out what this "loft" was or still is.

People learned about your positive message and music. They have imitated you and tried to duplicate you around the world. If this series wasn't around, I don't think your legacy would have stayed as potent as it did for this long a period of time. It would have been a smaller "legend" for an inclusive few to brag about while hanging in record stores.

Anyway, bootlegs are wrong and illegal. I wish they were done legally all along too. Then we could have these great tracks re-mastered and sounding better than these shit bootlegs. I picked up your 1st box set on Nuphonic BTW for the very reason that it sounded great.

Jolyon

06-16-2003, 02:05 PM

I have every single track on the whole Loft classics series in its original format with one exception 'One More Try' by Ashford & Simpson. :)So, it can be done if you are dedicated enough to track down the originals of these records (or licensed re-issues).

I have bought bootlegs now and again, though generally I don't because I like to have the original and many bootlegs are piss poor pressings anyway. If you gave me the choice of a bootleg with three tracks that costs £10 or the original that costs £20, I'll go for the original every time. My collection of a few thousand records probably only contains around 20 or so bootlegs at the most.

Mind you, at least re-edited bootlegs are doing something mildly creative...

Jolyon

06-16-2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
I think my entire generation learned a lot about the loft's music, "the older dance music that is the blueprint for today" through this bootleg series in particular.

From there many people did more research on thier own to find out what this "loft" was or still is.

People learned about your positive message and music. They have imitated you and tried to duplicate you around the world. If this series wasn't around, I don't think your legacy would have stayed as potent as it did for this long a period of time. It would have been a smaller "legend" for an inclusive few to brag about while hanging in record stores.Very very good point Donger.

For those who want the originals of the Loft classics...the proper titles are as follows...just to help you find them.

Idris Muhammad – Could Heaven Ever Be Like This
Mandre – Solar Flight
Deodato – Whistle Bump
Brian Auger’s Oblivion Express – Light On The Path
Asha Puthli – Space Talk
Gil Scott Heron – The Bottle (Live)
Karma – High Priestess
The Hollies – Draggin My Heals
Instant Funk – It Ain’t Really Reggae
Ashford and Simpson – One More Try
Mass Production – Shante
Wood Steel And Brass – Funkanova
El Coco – Delicado
Sweet Potato Pie – Hot Disco Nights (Are You Ready)
Lonnie Liston Smith – Space Princess
The Brothers – Brothers Theme
Matsubara – S.O.S.
The Jacksons – Hum Along And Dance
Fred Wesley – House Party
Freez – Southern Freez
The Meters – It Ain’t No Use
Earth Wind And Fire – Power
Johnny Hammond – Los Conquesistandores
Dexter Wansel – Life On Mars
War – Flying Machine (The Chase)
The Crusaders – Street Life
Dennis Coffey – Wings Of Fire
Crystal Glass – Crystal World
Miroslav Vitous – New York City
Brass Construction - Movin
Francine McGee – Delerium
Don Ray – Standing In The Rain
Jah Wobble – How Much Are They
Risco Connections – Ain’t No Stopping Us Now
Charles Earland – Leaving This Planet
Fela Kuti – Shakara
Atmosfear – Outer Space
Sun Palace – Rude Movements
Beginning Of The End – When She Made Me Promise
War – The World Is A Ghetto
Rhythm Makers – Zone
David Williams – Get On Down Boogie People
Gil Scott Heron – Home Is Where The Hatred Is

[ June 16, 2003, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Jolyon ]

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:

I will not get into the original story at this time re Loft Classics when I was approached about it in 84-85 (which was when it started). All I will say is this. Even though I declined to get involved in the project (bad karma man!) they still did it anyway USING THE NAME THE LOFT/and the Loft invitation card (public domain) TOGETHER.

And that is my basic objection to this whole thing. d Then your fight is with the source, the original guys, not the offsprings....not the record store...it's difficult to now tell the public to not do something that feels so good to them...it's not our fight.

Cut off the head.... Greetings again lil Ray:

Meanwhile, not mentioning the name .....is driving around in a Jaguar!

They are not only using the Loft's good name, but under it they put other people's (some who are friends of this community) music at the same time that they own it and the original is sitting there in the damn store(s). Does this make sense?

Keep the Loft's name out of this.

As for the buyer - I really understand your needs and concerns...it is not of your making. Do what you have to do.....just kept in mind of the negative forces that you are supporting. The quality alone of some of these recordings are horrible to say the least.

One of the reasons of doing the Loft compilation was to get positive revenge on this situation.

And yes, I am working on a project that will be fair, honest and musical.

d

If music be the food of love, play on. -Shakespeare

[ June 16, 2003, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

jsd540

06-16-2003, 02:21 PM

I have a few bootlegs (Sorry David ), but lets all be honest... If the records were made available there is no way we would buy the boot legs, the fact is the record co's do not re-issue these songs because the profit margin is not there. In the end we all lose, collectors get a second rate pressing at best, and the artists ( or the owners of the recording ) don't get paid.

It has been this way for a long time...

Jolyon

06-16-2003, 02:23 PM

jsd - over in England we have a label called Simply 12. It reissues tracks legally and the pressings are excellent. They sell in bucketloads and they are constantly repressing. With the correct resources and dedication it can be done, but it's difficult.

Cheddar

06-16-2003, 02:23 PM

I say put them on BLAST...put it out on front street. If it bothers you this much...and hey Im listening...who is the perp???
Bootleggin' is bootleggin'...but this would be the same as :
1. Shelter Classics Series
2. Dance Ritual Classics Series
3. Body and Soul Classic series

06-16-2003, 02:23 PM

mr. mancuso...is it possible to saturate the industry with your copies? this seems to be the only way to go...

how about making a video for "los conquistadores" under loft classics and getting it airplay on mtv? talk about a resurgence... graemlins/grinyes.gif

just thoughts...

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by jsd540:
I have a few bootlegs (Sorry David ), but lets all be honest... If the records were made available there is no way we would buy the boot legs, the fact is the record co's do not re-issue these songs because the profit margin is not there. In the end we all lose, collectors get a second rate pressing at best, and the artists ( or the owners of the recording ) don't get paid.

It has been this way for a long time... My main objection is the use of the term, "Loft Classics/with inviation card being used.

d

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 02:25 PM

I know(or heard) this fight has been going on for you on a personal level for some years now, and the word got around here in NYC and many has stop buying this particular label's offerings. Many who heard of the story years ago, is also under the impression that things were patched up(some agreement was made) and this is why the bootleg continue to exist. It obviously has not, and if this means that much to you, which it does, then, as a friend, I suggest you sue them. Good luck.

Clarkeecat

06-16-2003, 02:25 PM

Maybes the effect they had on the scene isn't the point. I remember back before the internet, back before Ladyboys book, there wasn't that many ways of finding out about this stuff in the uk... you get a loft classic boot, then you realise you can get the originals from stores, so go on to get them instead...and in the process learn a lot more about the music than a poorly pressed boot could teach you.
It's just the legality of using the name, like David says, the guy drives a jag now.... making profit off something he had no right to (the musicians, the loft name...). Thats got to be bad, right?

Matthew

jsd540

06-16-2003, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
we are not in a perfect world where we can go to the store, web, or distributor and get what we want, so I have to disagree with your point. Until the record companies find a way to kill the demand (putting out the product), then this will continue. My conscience is clear so I don't blow a gasket over it.

Sounds like we are talking aout weed or back in the '20s discussing the right or wrong of buying bootleg liquor.....hmmmmm Exacto graemlins/thumbsup.gif

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-16-2003, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Jolyon:
jsd - over in England we have a label called Simply 12. It reissues tracks legally and the pressings are excellent. They sell in bucketloads and they are constantly repressing. With the correct resources and dedication it can be done, but it's difficult. The most daunting issues would not only be obtaining the licensing, but getting an adequate master source to use for the re-issue in the first place.

There's the rub...

Most, if not all of the boots are probably copies of copies. At least 2nd generation masters. Who knows where the originals might be? I assume DM and Nuphoniq took care of this when they released the original "The Loft" series.

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by jsd540:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
we are not in a perfect world where we can go to the store, web, or distributor and get what we want, so I have to disagree with your point. Until the record companies find a way to kill the demand (putting out the product), then this will continue. My conscience is clear so I don't blow a gasket over it.

Sounds like we are talking aout weed or back in the '20s discussing the right or wrong of buying bootleg liquor.....hmmmmm Exacto graemlins/thumbsup.gif [/QUOTE]We are not talking about weed or liquor in the '20s. Read my post re current product that is owned and legally distributed (ex. melting pot)no pun intended smile.gif - and you will see another point re this.

Do you think that is correct?

d

Jamie 3:26

06-16-2003, 02:30 PM

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-16-2003, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jsd540:
I have a few bootlegs (Sorry David ), but lets all be honest... If the records were made available there is no way we would buy the boot legs, the fact is the record co's do not re-issue these songs because the profit margin is not there. In the end we all lose, collectors get a second rate pressing at best, and the artists ( or the owners of the recording ) don't get paid.

It has been this way for a long time... My main objection is the use of the term, "Loft Classics/with inviation card being used.

d [/QUOTE]I can/do totally respect that.

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by 1343:
I say put them on BLAST...put it out on front street. If it bothers you this much...and hey Im listening...who is the perp??? This is what you need to do if the lawsuit path is not the path for you.

Then again, spill the beans!!!

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by toomuchtv:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jsd540:
I have a few bootlegs (Sorry David ), but lets all be honest... If the records were made available there is no way we would buy the boot legs, the fact is the record co's do not re-issue these songs because the profit margin is not there. In the end we all lose, collectors get a second rate pressing at best, and the artists ( or the owners of the recording ) don't get paid.

It has been this way for a long time... My main objection is the use of the term, "Loft Classics/with inviation card being used.

d [/QUOTE]I can/do totally respect that. [/QUOTE]Thank you

d

Cheddar

06-16-2003, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 1343:
I say put them on BLAST...put it out on front street. If it bothers you this much...and hey Im listening...who is the perp???
Bootleggin' is bootleggin'...but this would be the same as :
1. Shelter Classics Series
2. Dance Ritual Classics Series
3. Body and Soul Classic series Damn,where can you find these at?? [/QUOTE]Its a joke..they dont exist..yet I guess it would be the same kinda outrage.

jsd540

06-16-2003, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Jolyon:
jsd - over in England we have a label called Simply 12. It reissues tracks legally and the pressings are excellent. They sell in bucketloads and they are constantly repressing. With the correct resources and dedication it can be done, but it's difficult. I agree it can be done, I own a few salsoul re-issues from a few years ago by a label called Ramshorn, the pressings were great and they were legal.

IMHO this should be done more often.

Why Isn't it?

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-16-2003, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by jsd540:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jolyon:
jsd - over in England we have a label called Simply 12. It reissues tracks legally and the pressings are excellent. They sell in bucketloads and they are constantly repressing. With the correct resources and dedication it can be done, but it's difficult. I agree it can be done, I own a few salsoul re-issues from a few years ago by a label called Ramshorn, the pressings were great and they were legal.

IMHO this should be done more often.

Why Isn't it? [/QUOTE]Licensing, probably.

I would love to see the original companies re-release these tracks themsleves, preferably in the original versions. Not unlike West End. Of course, some of these companies no longer exist, or were swallowed up by a larger entity in a merger of some sort.

[ June 16, 2003, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: toomuchtv ]

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Clarkeecat:
Maybes the effect they had on the scene isn't the point. I remember back before the internet, back before Ladyboys book, there wasn't that many ways of finding out about this stuff in the uk... you get a loft classic boot, then you realise you can get the originals from stores, so go on to get them instead...and in the process learn a lot more about the music than a poorly pressed boot could teach you.
It's just the legality of using the name, like David says, the guy drives a jag now.... making profit off something he had no right to (the musicians, the loft name...). Thats got to be bad, right?

Matthew Very well said.

d

Jamie 3:26

06-16-2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by 1343:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 1343:
I say put them on BLAST...put it out on front street. If it bothers you this much...and hey Im listening...who is the perp???
Bootleggin' is bootleggin'...but this would be the same as :
1. Shelter Classics Series
2. Dance Ritual Classics Series
3. Body and Soul Classic series Damn,where can you find these at?? [/QUOTE]Its a joke..they dont exist..yet I guess it would be the same kinda outrage. [/QUOTE]Ok,I am today's guest star on:"Look who's stupid...." graemlins/rofl.gif

Legends

06-16-2003, 02:37 PM

As a former retail guy in NY I gotta chime in on this one.

I fully respect you David for the sound you pioneered and all the music you've shared with the world, that many of us would have otherwise never heard.

Bootlegging is...well it's bad. Bad for the artists certainly, and in this case, bad for the person and party that is being branded on these bootlegs without permission. Funny though, I think almost all of us can confess to buying some type of bootleg at some time. Whether it's a boot of Sylvester-Over and Over or some Mahavishnu Orchestra concert from 1985. We all have at least one.

The bigger issue at hand is whether this music lives or dies. Whether it is remembered or forgotten. I have had this debate with FK before, about the Loft Classics series and the other NYC classics bootlegs that are incidentally made by the same person.

In the years before Nuphonic and the Grassroots series came out (or any other labels that "officially" gave this music the recognition it deserves) there really was no way to get a lot of those titles. At the time there was great interest for them, local and international. After working 5 years at Vinylmania, I cannot tell you how many young or new DJs I turned onto this music with these boots. They were easy to get, fairly cheap and most of the pressings (I said most dammit) were satisfactory.

Point made short: many of these titles would be forgotten now except by an elite few who had the privilidge of being born at the right time.

Please don't take this as an apology for bootleggers the world over. I don't mean it that way. I do know that "our musical heritage" has been at a critical fork in the road for some time. Either it is remembered or forgotten. One road leads to the cultural graveyard. The other, though it maybe a messy and incorrect path does lead to the goal of passing this music onto another generation. If given the choice, many would choose the lesser of two evils.

Great topic, and I absolutely respect your position on this issue and I admit that if I were David Mancuso, I would have deep reservations and anger over these boots.

Peace,
-adam

The Donger

06-16-2003, 02:41 PM

D, what do you think about my point? That some good has come out of this for you?

Check my above post...

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Jolyon:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
I think my entire generation learned a lot about the loft's music, "the older dance music that is the blueprint for today" through this bootleg series in particular.

From there many people did more research on thier own to find out what this "loft" was or still is.

People learned about your positive message and music. They have imitated you and tried to duplicate you around the world. If this series wasn't around, I don't think your legacy would have stayed as potent as it did for this long a period of time. It would have been a smaller "legend" for an inclusive few to brag about while hanging in record stores.Very very good point Donger.

For those who want the originals of the Loft classics...the proper titles are as follows...just to help you find them.

Idris Muhammad – Could Heaven Ever Be Like This
Mandre – Solar Flight
Deodato – Whistle Bump
Brian Auger’s Oblivion Express – Light On The Path
Asha Puthli – Space Talk
Gil Scott Heron – The Bottle (Live)
Karma – High Priestess
The Hollies – Draggin My Heals
Instant Funk – It Ain’t Really Reggae
Ashford and Simpson – One More Try
Mass Production – Shante
Wood Steel And Brass – Funkanova
El Coco – Delicado
Sweet Potato Pie – Hot Disco Nights (Are You Ready)
Lonnie Liston Smith – Space Princess
The Brothers – Brothers Theme
Matsubara – S.O.S.
The Jacksons – Hum Along And Dance
Fred Wesley – House Party
Freez – Southern Freez
The Meters – It Ain’t No Use
Earth Wind And Fire – Power
Johnny Hammond – Los Conquesistandores
Dexter Wansel – Life On Mars
War – Flying Machine (The Chase)
The Crusaders – Street Life
Dennis Coffey – Wings Of Fire
Crystal Glass – Crystal World
Miroslav Vitous – New York City
Brass Construction - Movin
Francine McGee – Delerium
Don Ray – Standing In The Rain
Jah Wobble – How Much Are They
Risco Connections – Ain’t No Stopping Us Now
Charles Earland – Leaving This Planet
Fela Kuti – Shakara
Atmosfear – Outer Space
Sun Palace – Rude Movements
Beginning Of The End – When She Made Me Promise
War – The World Is A Ghetto
Rhythm Makers – Zone
David Williams – Get On Down Boogie People
Gil Scott Heron – Home Is Where The Hatred Is [/QUOTE]Excuse me.....but some of these records, quite a few are not Loft Classics!

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 02:49 PM

adam, good point looking at the big picture.

Ever think that bootleggers are people who love the music so much, and was frstrated about not getting the music, that instead of talking about it, they did something about it? Is it there fault that making money from it is a by-product? Most ideas are born out of frustration.

Skip Intro

06-16-2003, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Legends:
Whether it's a boot of Sylvester-Over and Over or some Mahavishnu Orchestra concert from 1985. We all have at least one.

Peace,
-adam I am pretty sure Mahavishnu Orchestra was dissolved by '76 or so.

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 02:50 PM

D J 1 3 8

06-16-2003, 02:50 PM

David

Are we to assume that you have already asked this Jaguar afficionado to take the name "loft" off of this bootleg series and he refuses?

Prince HiFi

06-16-2003, 02:53 PM

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 02:54 PM

Water will find it path....and so will the music.

The music one way or another will be heard.

------

A lot of this music is available (at least the ones I consider LC's.)legallly and can be published.

--------------

Again......there are titles on the list that do not directly pertain to the loft as such.

--------------

Also this is unnecessarily happeing to other's.

-------------

Greed!

s

[ June 16, 2003, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-16-2003, 02:54 PM

The Donger

06-16-2003, 02:55 PM

Hahahaha!!! Maybe it was a reunion concert!

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Prince HiFi:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
adam, good point looking at the big picture.

Ever think that bootleggers are people who love the music so much, and was frstrated about not getting the music, that instead of talking about it, they did something about it? Is it there fault that making money from it is a by-product? Most ideas are born out of frustration. Like they couldn't have tried to licence and issue the tracks legitimately at some point (seeing as they've been pirating since '85 and presumably made enough dosh to get the jag)? If anyone has a right to call out the pirates it's a guy who went to the trouble of licencing the tracks legitimately. Go gettem Dave!

HiFi [/QUOTE]Now your seeing my point and I thank you..

d

Legends

06-16-2003, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
adam, good point looking at the big picture.

Ever think that bootleggers are people who love the music so much, and was frstrated about not getting the music, that instead of talking about it, they did something about it? Is it there fault that making money from it is a by-product? Most ideas are born out of frustration. To tell the truth Ray, knowing exactly who we are talking about, he likes the music and all, but more than likely, saw a market available for these things and made it his niche.

You have to go back to 1994-1998 when disco sampled house was king. Also back then there was a huge amount of interest from a lot of new collectods and DJs from Japan. The french guys were coming over for the weekend just to shop for rare classics and soak up as much of our scene as possible. These things literally sold like hot cakes. All you had to was put one on and let it play.

When New Jersey Deep came out and everyone wanted to know what the original was and then once they did, realized it was impossible to get (at the time). Translate that to 2002 with Soldiers of Twilight-Believe (Solar Flight). I bet a million dollars that DJ Rork (Soldiers of Twilight) heard that shit first off the Loft Classic. He copied it, and it went to become a classic itself (as did New Jersey Deep). That's the big picture in action.

It still doesn't settle nor solve the use of the name brand that rightfully belongs to David. I doubt that "the bootlegger" as my former boss used to call him will ever give what is due to the person that deserved and earned it (forget about the artist in this picture, they don't stand a chance of getting anything from this person).

Legends

06-16-2003, 03:02 PM

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by DJ 138:
David

Are we to assume that you have already asked this Jaguar afficionado to take the name "loft" off of this bootleg series and he refuses? Greetings DJ 138:

From day one.....84-85 (the orginal person passed away) I had refused the idea of doing a bootleg series of Loft Classics as the product was already available for the most part and has been thru the years. For obvious reasons I would not
"go along." The orginal store that was suppose to distribute them (on the west side) -- I had pleaded with them not to do it....but they all decided to do it anyway.

:(

d

jsd540

06-16-2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jsd540:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
we are not in a perfect world where we can go to the store, web, or distributor and get what we want, so I have to disagree with your point. Until the record companies find a way to kill the demand (putting out the product), then this will continue. My conscience is clear so I don't blow a gasket over it.

Sounds like we are talking aout weed or back in the '20s discussing the right or wrong of buying bootleg liquor.....hmmmmm Exacto graemlins/thumbsup.gif [/QUOTE]We are not talking about weed or liquor in the '20s. Read my post re current product that is owned and legally distributed (ex. melting pot)no pun intended smile.gif - and you will see another point re this.

Do you think that is correct?

d [/QUOTE]With regard to the music yes I do agree, with regards to your name being associated, yes and no.

I hope explain this well.

The term Lofty in NYC has always been synonomous with the music you shared with us. I can't imagine naming a collection of songs that were staples in your club anything else. You have created a legacy and these bootlegs are an unfortunate side effect of creating such a legacy.

While I can understand the fact that you may hate having your name used to describe a second rate product, you must understand that the product is merly trying to describe a unique style of music.

IMHO

The Donger

06-16-2003, 03:06 PM

We all own bootlegs, so no double standards please.

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
Water will find it path....and so will the music.

The music one way or another will be heard.
whether legally or illegally....whether in a legal club or an illegal basement party....whether on the radio or through cds and mix tapes....whether licensed record or bootleg.....the consumer should always be the deciding factor....isn't it so....????

....something to think about....

The Donger

06-16-2003, 03:08 PM

Please stop mentioning the Jaguar. I love Jaguars. I have some rare music. Now I am tempted...

Jolyon

06-16-2003, 03:12 PM

[/QUOTE]
Idris Muhammad – Could Heaven Ever Be Like This
Mandre – Solar Flight
Deodato – Whistle Bump
Brian Auger’s Oblivion Express – Light On The Path
Asha Puthli – Space Talk
Gil Scott Heron – The Bottle (Live)
Karma – High Priestess
The Hollies – Draggin My Heals
Instant Funk – It Ain’t Really Reggae
Ashford and Simpson – One More Try
Mass Production – Shante
Wood Steel And Brass – Funkanova
El Coco – Delicado
Sweet Potato Pie – Hot Disco Nights (Are You Ready)
Lonnie Liston Smith – Space Princess
The Brothers – Brothers Theme
Matsubara – S.O.S.
The Jacksons – Hum Along And Dance
Fred Wesley – House Party
Freez – Southern Freez
The Meters – It Ain’t No Use
Earth Wind And Fire – Power
Johnny Hammond – Los Conquesistandores
Dexter Wansel – Life On Mars
War – Flying Machine (The Chase)
The Crusaders – Street Life
Dennis Coffey – Wings Of Fire
Crystal Glass – Crystal World
Miroslav Vitous – New York City
Brass Construction - Movin
Francine McGee – Delerium
Don Ray – Standing In The Rain
Jah Wobble – How Much Are They
Risco Connections – Ain’t No Stopping Us Now
Charles Earland – Leaving This Planet
Fela Kuti – Shakara
Atmosfear – Outer Space
Sun Palace – Rude Movements
Beginning Of The End – When She Made Me Promise
War – The World Is A Ghetto
Rhythm Makers – Zone
David Williams – Get On Down Boogie People
Gil Scott Heron – Home Is Where The Hatred Is [/qb][/QUOTE]Excuse me.....but some of these records, quite a few are not Loft Classics! [/QB][/QUOTE]

I can believe it...

So the bootlegger has made a handsome ransom out of the name 'Loft' and put out some records illegally that were not even played at the Loft. graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[ June 16, 2003, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Jolyon ]

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 03:18 PM

Say what y'all want to say about bootleggers, but they see an opportunity and took it....the America way.

Another question: if this didn't involve david or if we didn't know david through these boards or personally, honestly, would most of y'all ive a flying ****?

let's be true....

TAC

06-16-2003, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
Another question: if this didn't involve david or if we didn't know david through these boards or personally, honestly, would most of y'all ive a flying ****?

let's be true.... Yes... NAW graemlins/tongueout.gif

Prince HiFi

06-16-2003, 03:27 PM

D J 1 3 8

06-16-2003, 03:28 PM

here's another question:

Will the name "Loft" ever be considered public domain, kind of like the word "ketchup", where it's use becomes so ubiquitous to describe a certain thing that is is deemed legally un-ownable?

I would guess that there are those that would argue that "Loft classics" is merely describing a type of music and not referencing David's Loft directly, much like a great deal of house music has no direct relation to the warehouse in Chi (another topic of great debate, I know...)

I realize the above argument is weakened by the fact that these particular "Loft classics" apparently use part of David's invitation, but for argument's sake, I submit the question above.

[ June 16, 2003, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: DJ 138 ]

The Donger

06-16-2003, 03:29 PM

David, do you agree these bootlegs have helped you in some ways?

Jamie 3:26

06-16-2003, 03:32 PM

Wait a minute.You mean these"Loft Classics" have been out since the 80's?I did not see them in stores here til 94-95.I know a lot of cats picked them up.They used to have swirled wax.I did not buy any more after my copy of Home is...that surface noise in the end sucks.

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
D, what do you think about my point? That some good has come out of this for you?

Check my above post... This is not about me .....so much as it is for others who are much more vulnerable and defenseless and who cannot fight back.

I am trying to speak for them too.

d

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 03:34 PM

jsd540

06-16-2003, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by toomuchtv:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jsd540:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jolyon:
jsd - over in England we have a label called Simply 12. It reissues tracks legally and the pressings are excellent. They sell in bucketloads and they are constantly repressing. With the correct resources and dedication it can be done, but it's difficult. I agree it can be done, I own a few salsoul re-issues from a few years ago by a label called Ramshorn, the pressings were great and they were legal.

IMHO this should be done more often.

Why Isn't it? [/QUOTE]Licensing, probably.

I would love to see the original companies re-release these tracks themsleves, preferably in the original versions. Not unlike West End. Of course, some of these companies no longer exist, or were swallowed up by a larger entity in a merger of some sort. [/QUOTE]More important is the fact that licensing is expensive as hell and gets paid up-front for compilations. Thats based on units pressed not sold, so if you want to take advantage of the economy of scale you need to come with some long green for some of these recordings.

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
Wait a minute.You mean these"Loft Classics" have been out since the 80's?I did not see them in stores here til 94-95.I know a lot of cats picked them up.They used to have swirled wax.I did not buy any more after my copy of Home is...that surface noise in the end sucks. Greetings Jamie:

excerpt of Jamie's quote:

"that surface noise in the end sucks"

------

my responce:

i.e.

another sign of bad Karma from "where they are coming from."

What goes around comes around, just like a record playing on a ttable......around and around and around....

smile.gif

d

[ June 16, 2003, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

Prince HiFi

06-16-2003, 03:49 PM

I recall a year or so back, Antonio Ocasio came on the boards pleading with folks not to buy the bootleg of a track he had played on, licensed (paid $$) from a major, and was about to issue on vinyl on his own Tribal Winds label. Vini Colaiuto (sp.) was the artist, Herbie Hancock on keys, Antonio on percussion, it's somewhere in my crates. Much respect to anyone who does it right. Note to jag drivers, it can be done right.

HiFi

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
David, do you agree these bootlegs have helped you in some ways? No. Did more harm than good. How can something that was created from evil be good for me or anyone?

I could see if the attempt was about the music and they were more original.....but it is about greed and misleading people.

And with all the money they make from this and other records they lift unnecessarily they should have "done the right thing" by now, don't you think? They could have started a legit label by now and done this right way.

Do you have a Jag?

d

Gojay

06-16-2003, 03:52 PM

It's a shame! but like Donger said, I would have never known what the Loft sound was until I checked these boots(although, I have never bought one)!.
Since I have been reading these boards(5 years now) I realized the injustice of buying bootlegs . Since then I can honestly say that I have not bought one and will advise others why not to do so either(but they'll do what they want anyway). That is not to say that I have not bought any previously, but I was cluelass as to why back then.These boots have been around for quite a few years though. Thanks to Gemm.com I have found almost all of the out of print stuff that I have been searching for, for years(even if it does not beenefit the artist now). I can say it's an original or if it's a comp.the Licencing(sp?) fees are paid.Hopefully the future will be different when it comes down to boots ,but I'm not holding my breath.

peace,
gojay

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Prince HiFi:
I recall a year or so back, Antonio Ocasio came on the boards pleading with folks not to buy the bootleg of a track he had played on, licensed (paid $$) from a major, and was about to issue on vinyl on his own Tribal Winds label. Vini Colaiuto (sp.) was the artist, Herbie Hancock on keys, Antonio on percussion, it's somewhere in my crates. Much respect to anyone who does it right. Note to jag drivers, it can be done right.

HiFi smile.gif

d

falko

06-16-2003, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
Say what y'all want to say about bootleggers, but they see an opportunity and took it....the America way.

Another question: if this didn't involve david or if we didn't know david through these boards or personally, honestly, would most of y'all ive a flying ****?

let's be true.... i don't know david at all, and i agree with him 100%. all he is basically saying is that these guys are using his name and the legacy of a party that he created, to do something illegal.

in a business sense, they are hurting david's and the loft's "brand," as they are associating it with a cheap, illegal product.

on a personal level, perhaps they are damaging his relationships with musicians and people in the music community, as they might logically (given the name) and yet incorrectly assume he has something to do with the bootlegs.

not only is what they are doing illegal, but it is also unethical.

wouldn't you be upset if someone started bootlegging blaze and MAW material under the brand "lil ray" ? you wouldn't get a cent, the artists wouldn't get a cent, and a whole bunch of people might incorrectly think you are shady...

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by Gojay:
It's a shame! but like Donger said, I would have never known what the Loft sound was until I checked these boots(although, I have never bought one)!.
Since I have been reading these boards(5 years now) I realized the injustice of buying bootlegs . Since then I can honestly say that I have not bought one and will advise others why not to do so either(but they'll do what they want anyway). That is not to say that I have not bought any previously, but I was cluelass as to why back then.These boots have been around for quite a few years though. Thanks to Gemm.com I have found almost all of the out of print stuff that I have been searching for, for years(even if it does not beenefit the artist now). I can say it's an original or if it's a comp.the Licencing(sp?) fees are paid.Hopefully the future will be different when it comes down to boots ,but I'm not holding my breath.

peace,
gojay Again......a lot of the songs they bootleg are now even songs I would put on my own compilation.

:(

d

[ June 16, 2003, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

jsd540

06-16-2003, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by jsd540:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jsd540:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
we are not in a perfect world where we can go to the store, web, or distributor and get what we want, so I have to disagree with your point. Until the record companies find a way to kill the demand (putting out the product), then this will continue. My conscience is clear so I don't blow a gasket over it.

Sounds like we are talking aout weed or back in the '20s discussing the right or wrong of buying bootleg liquor.....hmmmmm Exacto graemlins/thumbsup.gif [/QUOTE]We are not talking about weed or liquor in the '20s. Read my post re current product that is owned and legally distributed (ex. melting pot)no pun intended smile.gif - and you will see another point re this.

Do you think that is correct?

d [/QUOTE]With regard to the music yes I do agree, with regards to your name being associated, yes and no.

I hope explain this well.

The term Lofty in NYC has always been synonomous with the music you shared with us. I can't imagine naming a collection of songs that were staples in your club anything else. You have created a legacy and these bootlegs are an unfortunate side effect of creating such a legacy.

While I can understand the fact that you may hate having your name used to describe a second rate product, you must understand that the product is merly trying to describe a unique style of music.

IMHO [/QUOTE]...

falko

06-16-2003, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by falko:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
Say what y'all want to say about bootleggers, but they see an opportunity and took it....the America way.

Another question: if this didn't involve david or if we didn't know david through these boards or personally, honestly, would most of y'all ive a flying ****?

let's be true.... i don't know david at all, and i agree with him 100%. all he is basically saying is that these guys are using his name and the legacy of a party that he created, to do something illegal.

in a business sense, they are hurting david's and the loft's "brand," as they are associating it with a cheap, illegal product.

on a personal level, perhaps they are damaging his relationships with musicians and people in the music community, as they might logically (given the name) and yet incorrectly assume he has something to do with the bootlegs.

not only is what they are doing illegal, but it is also unethical.

wouldn't you be upset if someone started bootlegging blaze and MAW material under the brand "lil ray" ? you wouldn't get a cent, the artists wouldn't get a cent, and a whole bunch of people might incorrectly think you are shady... [/QUOTE]oh, i might also add that a lot the blaze/maw material IS hard to find at a good price... i had to pay over $20 on the Web for the "funky people" doublepack!!

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by falko:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
Say what y'all want to say about bootleggers, but they see an opportunity and took it....the America way.

Another question: if this didn't involve david or if we didn't know david through these boards or personally, honestly, would most of y'all ive a flying ****?

let's be true.... i don't know david at all, and i agree with him 100%. all he is basically saying is that these guys are using his name and the legacy of a party that he created, to do something illegal.

in a business sense, they are hurting david's and the loft's "brand," as they are associating it with a cheap, illegal product.

on a personal level, perhaps they are damaging his relationships with musicians and people in the music community, as they might logically (given the name) and yet incorrectly assume he has something to do with the bootlegs.

not only is what they are doing illegal, but it is also unethical.

wouldn't you be upset if someone started bootlegging blaze and MAW material under the brand "lil ray" ? you wouldn't get a cent, the artists wouldn't get a cent, and a whole bunch of people might incorrectly think you are shady... [/QUOTE]good point...I'm just throwing questions out there to get people thinking of another side of the coin.

Tee Cee 13

06-16-2003, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
Greetings liL Ray:

I will not get into the original story at this time re Loft Classics when I was approached about it in 84-85 (which was when it started). All I will say is this. Even though I declined to get involved in the project (bad karma man!) they still did it anyway USING THE NAME THE LOFT/and the Loft invitation card (public domain) TOGETHER.

And that is my basic objection to this whole thing.

Find an original copy of something you like and see if you can press it up for your own use....that I believe is a cool way to obtain the music you are looking for.

It is one thing to buy bootlegs (I actually understand that) it is another to bring the Loft's good name and spirit into it. Use another name of some sort.....

d [/QB]It seems to me that you know who is behind these boot-legs by this Quote, We all know that this is dead wrong. Can these people be approched or is it too late already... When I say approched I mean legally. This sound like something that can be fixed... and not exploited for all the bad reasons. "You know what I mean"
------------------------------
T.C. 13

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by Prince HiFi:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
Say what y'all want to say about bootleggers, but they see an opportunity and took it....the America way.

Another question: if this didn't involve david or if we didn't know david through these boards or personally, honestly, would most of y'all ive a flying ****?

let's be true.... Do you not support property rights? Do you not think the owners of the stolen property should go after the thieves? If "the bootlegger" got busted tomorrow, I'd laugh and feel justice had been done!

HiFi [/QUOTE]liL Ray:

With all due respect to you I must emphatically disagree with your above quote.

The American way? Do I walk into a store and walk out with a record without paying for it???

(See TAC's thread)

As far as my involvement in this, I find this an opportunity to speak where others may or cannot be heard and are defenseless and are being violated on a day to day basis.

In the meantime, how do we explain this to the children?

d

What's Love Got To Do With It......Tina Turner

[ June 16, 2003, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

falko

06-16-2003, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by falko:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
Say what y'all want to say about bootleggers, but they see an opportunity and took it....the America way.

Another question: if this didn't involve david or if we didn't know david through these boards or personally, honestly, would most of y'all ive a flying ****?

let's be true.... i don't know david at all, and i agree with him 100%. all he is basically saying is that these guys are using his name and the legacy of a party that he created, to do something illegal.

in a business sense, they are hurting david's and the loft's "brand," as they are associating it with a cheap, illegal product.

on a personal level, perhaps they are damaging his relationships with musicians and people in the music community, as they might logically (given the name) and yet incorrectly assume he has something to do with the bootlegs.

not only is what they are doing illegal, but it is also unethical.

wouldn't you be upset if someone started bootlegging blaze and MAW material under the brand "lil ray" ? you wouldn't get a cent, the artists wouldn't get a cent, and a whole bunch of people might incorrectly think you are shady... [/QUOTE]good point...I'm just throwing questions out there to get people thinking of another side of the coin. [/QUOTE]true dat. and i agree with the general message of your points. i admit to buying bootlegs and i have never really felt bad about it either.

i would rather buy an original / reissue / legal compilation than a bootleg any day. but if i can't find one of these i pick up the bootleg. in almost every case that i have bought a bootleg and then seen an "official" pressing later on, i have always bought the official release. like you have said, i just want the music...

Bold Soul

06-16-2003, 04:11 PM

David,

Three things that seem to stand out for me on this issue are:

How is the claim rooted in intellectual property law?

As you have worked to break new artists and music thoughout the years, are you alone in this fight or do you have support?

Have you ever been advised to work within a business structure so as to avoid this, such as trademarking "the Loft", working with the original labels or artists to bring action against those with whom you believe are infringing upon your right to the term "the Loft"?

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by T.C.:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
Greetings liL Ray:

I will not get into the original story at this time re Loft Classics when I was approached about it in 84-85 (which was when it started). All I will say is this. Even though I declined to get involved in the project (bad karma man!) they still did it anyway USING THE NAME THE LOFT/and the Loft invitation card (public domain) TOGETHER.

And that is my basic objection to this whole thing.

Find an original copy of something you like and see if you can press it up for your own use....that I believe is a cool way to obtain the music you are looking for.

It is one thing to buy bootlegs (I actually understand that) it is another to bring the Loft's good name and spirit into it. Use another name of some sort.....

d It seems to me that you know who is behind these boot-legs by this Quote, We all know that this is dead wrong. Can these people be approched or is it too late already... When I say approched I mean legally. This sound like something that can be fixed... and not exploited for all the bad reasons. "You know what I mean"
------------------------------
T.C. 13 [/QB][/QUOTE]Greetings:

I am a strong believer in Karma.

smile.gif

d

kev

06-16-2003, 04:14 PM

- David, I just wanted to say that I always had a feeling that you did not have anything to do with the "Loft Classics" series, b/c I found the sound quality to be poor. When I think of the name David Mancuso I think of quality which the LC series lack.

- Sometimes it's the artists themsleves behind bootlegs.

Tee Cee 13

06-16-2003, 04:15 PM

Me too!!

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
[QUOTE] Greetings:

I am a strong believer in Karma.

smile.gif

d that's great, but in the meantime, could you file a suit and put this all to rest?

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 04:20 PM

kev

06-16-2003, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by T.C.:
Me too!! You're behind bootlegs?

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 04:22 PM

liL Ray

06-16-2003, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
adam, good point looking at the big picture.

Ever think that bootleggers are people who love the music so much, and was frstrated about not getting the music, that instead of talking about it, they did something about it? Is it there fault that making money from it is a by-product? Most ideas are born out of frustration. I think they like Jaguar's more than music!

d [/QUOTE]more like music in jaguars.... :D

Tee Cee 13

06-16-2003, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by kevin koga:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by T.C.:
Me too!! You're behind bootlegs? [/QUOTE]---------------------
Hell no.....

kev

06-16-2003, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by T.C.:
[/qb]---------------------
Hell no..... [/QB][/QUOTE]

I know. I was just joking. Your post where you said, "me too" came right after my post that said "sometimes it's the artists doing the bootlegs".

Tee Cee 13

06-16-2003, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by T.C.:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
Greetings liL Ray:

I will not get into the original story at this time re Loft Classics when I was approached about it in 84-85 (which was when it started). All I will say is this. Even though I declined to get involved in the project (bad karma man!) they still did it anyway USING THE NAME THE LOFT/and the Loft invitation card (public domain) TOGETHER.

And that is my basic objection to this whole thing.

Find an original copy of something you like and see if you can press it up for your own use....that I believe is a cool way to obtain the music you are looking for.

It is one thing to buy bootlegs (I actually understand that) it is another to bring the Loft's good name and spirit into it. Use another name of some sort.....

d It seems to me that you know who is behind these boot-legs by this Quote, We all know that this is dead wrong. Can these people be approched or is it too late already... When I say approched I mean legally. This sound like something that can be fixed... and not exploited for all the bad reasons. "You know what I mean"
------------------------------
T.C. 13 [/QUOTE]Greetings:

I am a strong believer in Karma.

smile.gif

d [/QB][/QUOTE]-------------------------

kevin koga when I said me too, I meant I am a strong believer in Karma also...

Tee Cee 13

06-16-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by kevin koga:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by T.C.:
---------------------
Hell no..... [/QB][/QUOTE]I know. I was just joking. Your post where you said, "me too" came right after my post that said "sometimes it's the artists doing the bootlegs". [/QB][/QUOTE]
--------------------------------

That's cool bro......

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by kevin koga:
- David, I just wanted to say that I always had a feeling that you did not have anything to do with the "Loft Classics" series, b/c I found the sound quality to be poor. When I think of the name David Mancuso I think of quality which the LC series lack.

- Sometimes it's the artists themsleves behind bootlegs. And If I may say, also having respect for the artists, and the community who buys and supports the music.

d

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 04:51 PM

This was all good......

Thank you

smile.gif

Like they say in the cartoons, "THAT'S ALL FOLKS!"

mhd

06-16-2003, 05:22 PM

Bold Soul

06-16-2003, 05:38 PM

Still curious. Thx.

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
David,

Three things that seem to stand out for me on this issue are:

How is the claim rooted in intellectual property law?

As you have worked to break new artists and music thoughout the years, are you alone in this fight or do you have support?

Have you ever been advised to work within a business structure so as to avoid this, such as trademarking "the Loft", working with the original labels or artists to bring action against those with whom you believe are infringing upon your right to the term "the Loft"?

Moksha

06-16-2003, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by 1343:
I say put them on BLAST...put it out on front street. If it bothers you this much...and hey Im listening...who is the perp???
Bootleggin' is bootleggin'...but this would be the same as :
1. Shelter Classics Series
2. Dance Ritual Classics Series
3. Body and Soul Classic series Very good point. Just as we would all band together to support and protect the hypothetical injustice done to Timmy, Louie or François, we should too support David in this fight.

This is not about bootlegging. This is about people profiting off of the hard work and good name created by Mr. Mancuso. His vision is being perverted and raped by those who put a much lower value on the rights of the artists.

djmarbll

06-16-2003, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by Mykhal:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Legends:
Whether it's a boot of Sylvester-Over and Over or some Mahavishnu Orchestra concert from 1985. We all have at least one.

Peace,
-adam I am pretty sure Mahavishnu Orchestra was dissolved by '76 or so. [/QUOTE]Maybe he meant a Mahavishnu concert issued on bootleg in 1985 that was recorded in the early 70's (when Mahavishnu were actually recording). As strange as it sounds, I have a Prince concert on bootleg cassette (The White Album) that was recorded in 1988, but wasn't sold until years later (1992) at a record convention.

Moksha

06-16-2003, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by kevin koga:
- David, I just wanted to say that I always had a feeling that you did not have anything to do with the "Loft Classics" series, b/c I found the sound quality to be poor. When I think of the name David Mancuso I think of quality which the LC series lack.

- Sometimes it's the artists themsleves behind bootlegs. The fact that you had a "feeling," but did not know for sure speaks volumes about this topic. David's name is being hijacked.

djmarbll

06-16-2003, 06:03 PM

Bold Soul

06-16-2003, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by Orion:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 1343:
I say put them on BLAST...put it out on front street. If it bothers you this much...and hey Im listening...who is the perp???
Bootleggin' is bootleggin'...but this would be the same as :
1. Shelter Classics Series
2. Dance Ritual Classics Series
3. Body and Soul Classic series Very good point. Just as we would all band together to support and protect the hypothetical injustice done to Timmy, Louie or François, we should too support David in this fight.

This is not about bootlegging. This is about people profiting off of the hard work and good name created by Mr. Mancuso. His vision is being perverted and raped by those who put a much lower value on the rights of the artists. [/QUOTE]Well, if I have this correctly, some folks came to DM to get him to go in on a bootlegging deal for releasing some tracks under a brand similar to his Loft. He turned them down. Years later, they label the bootlegs some derivative of the name "Loft".

Now, if the name "Loft" or any derivative carries with it a connotation of an association with DM and his venture, he could have legal claim IF appropriate measures were taken up front (trademarking, servicemarking, copyrighting). If these measures weren't taken, the circumvention of DMs approval/involvement may be totally acceptable in an intellectual property sense.

It would be nice to be presented both sides of the story. The term "Loft" seems less indigeous to house music in general and to DM in particular if an attorney could argue fair use as a descriptive phrase on another implication (label offices are located in a loft, for example).

The reason for my questions earlier was that I could value the insight as I firm up my own IP issues here in LA.

lesysteme

06-16-2003, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
[QUOTE]good point...I'm just throwing questions out there to get people thinking of another side of the coin. but there is no other side of the coin.

theyre bootlegs, theyre illegal pressings of copyrighted material that the artists who actually made the tracks will never see a cent of.

we can sit here and come up with points and counter points, but the fact remains that the artists have been ripped off. no amount of discussion will change that.

and because of the "bootleg " aurra of these tracks (despite shitty sound. pressings and even mixes), ppl still buy them over the legal available copy.

case closed. feel free to continue tho...

djmarbll

06-16-2003, 06:21 PM

This issue is really touchy because most dj's I know including myself have at least one Loft Classic bootleg somewhere. I bought my first in the early 90's and didn't know that neither Mr. Mancuso nor The Loft wasn't actually associated with it. I've learned a little about the Loft and David since then and have found most of the originals listed as Loft Classics. But it seems pretty offensive and courageous for a record store to re-issue a bootleg and sell it across state lines via the internet when it explicitly impinges on the official brand name of The Loft and David Mancuso. It makes me wonder how Chicagoans would have responded had Gramaphone, Hot Jams, or any popular record store in the city started selling a bootleg compilation called Music Box Classics and Ron Hardy was still alive to say something about it.

But the flipside is that because of the rarity of the records put on these compilations, many dj's might not ever get exposure to the material. Names like Pam Todd and Donna Mgchee are familiar not because most dj's have the original albums, but because "Let's Get Together" and "It Ain't No Big Thing" were bootlegged to hell. But David, these people are foul to re-issue a bootleg. That's plain disrespectful. I say take 'em for what they got. graemlins/cussing.gif

djmarbll

06-16-2003, 06:27 PM

And another thing. Isn't it illegal to sell bootleg material across state lines? I thought this was why record stores didn't even say whether they had a particular bootleg when you called them on the phone. I know this is what I went through with Gramaphone, Loop Records, and especially Imports back in the day.

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 1343:
I say put them on BLAST...put it out on front street. If it bothers you this much...and hey Im listening...who is the perp???
Bootleggin' is bootleggin'...but this would be the same as :
1. Shelter Classics Series
2. Dance Ritual Classics Series
3. Body and Soul Classic series Very good point. Just as we would all band together to support and protect the hypothetical injustice done to Timmy, Louie or François, we should too support David in this fight.

This is not about bootlegging. This is about people profiting off of the hard work and good name created by Mr. Mancuso. His vision is being perverted and raped by those who put a much lower value on the rights of the artists. [/QUOTE]Well, if I have this correctly, some folks came to DM to get him to go in on a bootlegging deal for releasing some tracks under a brand similar to his Loft. He turned them down. Years later, they label the bootlegs some derivative of the name "Loft".

Now, if the name "Loft" or any derivative carries with it a connotation of an association with DM and his venture, he could have legal claim IF appropriate measures were taken up front (trademarking, servicemarking, copyrighting). If these measures weren't taken, the circumvention of DMs approval/involvement may be totally acceptable in an intellectual property sense.

It would be nice to be presented both sides of the story. The term "Loft" seems less indigeous to house music in general and to DM in particular if an attorney could argue fair use as a descriptive phrase on another implication (label offices are located in a loft, for example).

The reason for my questions earlier was that I could value the insight as I firm up my own IP issues here in LA. [/QUOTE]Greetings:

I was approached exactly this way:

Let's start a bootleg label called Loft Classics and use the Loft invitation (picture) to identify with the label as being THE LOFT.

I said only if it is done correctly and legally and that the artists are paid royalties and that the pressings should be of high audio quality.

They disagreed. Therefore I said NO.

There were two people involved. One is the person who approached me (since deceased) and the other was the owner of a record store on the lower west side of Manhattan. I knew the owner.

Then in the process of moving from 99 Prince St. (1984) 12 of my records disappeared. One of them was an acetate entrusted to me from a very close friend.

It took me two weeks but I got my records "stolen back." About 3 months or so after, the first of the 12 records started showing up on LOFT Classics/with pic of our invitation card to the Loft. Even tho' I pleaded with the owner of the record store -- as they promised me they would not take part in this charade....sold the bootlegs Loft Classics w/pic anyway.

These records except for one were all available and could be licensed. None of them were over 5 years old. Thus began the LC's.

I personally felt that any association between the LC bootlegs and the Loft were harmful and misleading. The Loft has always been a home for artists and music lovers. What kind of s*it would I be pulling off by being such a hypocrite and for me to drag the loft into such a selfish economically violent situation, ...... this deeply saddened me to say the very least.

The reason I started this thread today was that I saw that a particular store had now put the Loft Classics on their Web site "store" after they too aknowledged they would not sell the LC once the Loft Compleations, NU came out.

Therefore I wish it to be known that the Loft would never ever partake in this kind of nonsense.
Such behaviour would be disgraceful and hinder the relationships with artists in the music community.

Kept in mind that this is happening with other people who currently have legal and high quality re-issues/compliations out in some of these store(s) and that they still sell the "same titled" bootlegs -- all at the same time, all under the same roof. Again, melting pot, over over...are just some of the examples.

I believe that something is wrong with this picture.

d

[ June 17, 2003, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 07:14 PM

http://deephousepage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=031342

d

kim lightfoot

06-16-2003, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
While I agree with you on many points David, you should also realize that some good has come out of this bootleg series.

I think my entire generation learned a lot about the loft's music, "the older dance music that is the blueprint for today" through this bootleg series in particular.

From there many people did more research on thier own to find out what this "loft" was or still is.

People learned about your positive message and music. They have imitated you and tried to duplicate you around the world. If this series wasn't around, I don't think your legacy would have stayed as potent as it did for this long a period of time. It would have been a smaller "legend" for an inclusive few to brag about while hanging in record stores.

Anyway, bootlegs are wrong and illegal. I wish they were done legally all along too. Then we could have these great tracks re-mastered and sounding better than these shit bootlegs. I picked up your 1st box set on Nuphonic BTW for the very reason that it sounded great.

Bold Soul

06-16-2003, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 1343:
I say put them on BLAST...put it out on front street. If it bothers you this much...and hey Im listening...who is the perp???
Bootleggin' is bootleggin'...but this would be the same as :
1. Shelter Classics Series
2. Dance Ritual Classics Series
3. Body and Soul Classic series Very good point. Just as we would all band together to support and protect the hypothetical injustice done to Timmy, Louie or François, we should too support David in this fight.

This is not about bootlegging. This is about people profiting off of the hard work and good name created by Mr. Mancuso. His vision is being perverted and raped by those who put a much lower value on the rights of the artists. [/QUOTE]Well, if I have this correctly, some folks came to DM to get him to go in on a bootlegging deal for releasing some tracks under a brand similar to his Loft. He turned them down. Years later, they label the bootlegs some derivative of the name "Loft".

Now, if the name "Loft" or any derivative carries with it a connotation of an association with DM and his venture, he could have legal claim IF appropriate measures were taken up front (trademarking, servicemarking, copyrighting). If these measures weren't taken, the circumvention of DMs approval/involvement may be totally acceptable in an intellectual property sense.

It would be nice to be presented both sides of the story. The term "Loft" seems less indigeous to house music in general and to DM in particular if an attorney could argue fair use as a descriptive phrase on another implication (label offices are located in a loft, for example).

The reason for my questions earlier was that I could value the insight as I firm up my own IP issues here in LA. [/QUOTE]Greetings:

I was approached exactly this way:

Let's start a bootleg label called Loft Classics and use the Loft invitation (picture) to identify with the label as being THE LOFT.

I said only if it is done correctly and legally and that the artists are paid royalties and they should be of high quality.

They disagreed. Therefore I said NO.

There were two people involved. One is the person who approached me(since deceased) and the other was the owner of a record store on the lower west side of Manhattan. I knew the owner.

Then in the process of moving from 99 Prince St. 12 of my records disappeared. One of them was an acetate entrusted to me from a very close friend.

It took me two weeks but I got my records "stolen back." About 3 months or so after, the first of the 12 records started showing up on LOFT Classics/with pic of our invitation to the Loft. Even tho' I pleaded with the owner of the store as they promised me they would not take part in this charade....sold the bootlegs Loft Classics w/pic anyway.

These records except for one were all available and could be licensed. None of them were over 5 years old. Thus began the LC's.

I personally felt that any association bet the LC bootlegs and the Loft were harmful and misleading. The Loft has always been a home for artists and music lovers. What kind of s*it would I be pulling off by being such a hypocrite and for me to drag the loft into such a selfish economical violent situatuon, ...... this deeply saddened me to say the least.

The reason I started this thread today was that I saw that a particular store had now put the Loft Classics on their Web site store after they too aknowledge they would not sell the LC once the Loft Compleations, NU came out.

Therefore I wish it to be know that the Loft would never ever partake in this kind of nonsense.

Kept in mind that this is happening with other people who have current legal and high quality re-issues/compliations in some store(s) that still sell the bootlegs at the same time. Again, melting pot, over over...some of the examples.

I believe that something is wrong with this picture.

d [/QUOTE]Very insightful. Thank you DM.

kim lightfoot

06-16-2003, 07:22 PM

ghost of donger..."if this series wasn't around, i don't think your legacy would have stayed as potent as it did for this long period of time"...yo, you've gotta be kidding me...you should do some research before you make comments like that about david or anybody else...kim

TAC

06-16-2003, 07:23 PM

David, who did the artwork for the Loft invitation?

mdpm99

06-16-2003, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by TAC:
David, who did the artwork for the Loft invitation? The original picture (public domain) can be bought at Nostalgia (good record store on Thompson St.). It is originally a photo which is what I have always used. It was shown to me by a very dear friend when I was trying to come up with a "invitation card" for the Loft. He l@@ked me straight in the eye and said to me, "Don't ever change this photo as your invitation. He was a director of films. I obliged his wish to this day.

Thank you for asking, Tac.

smile.gif

d

TAC

06-16-2003, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
David, who did the artwork for the Loft invitation? The original picture (public domain) can be bought at Nostalgia (good record store on Thompson St.). It is originally a photo which is what I have always used. It was shown to me by a very dear friend when I was trying to come up with a "invitation card" for the Loft. He l@@ked me straight in the eye and said to me, "Don't ever change this photo as your invitation. He was a director of films. I obliged his wish to this day.

Thank you for asking, Tac.

smile.gif

d [/QUOTE]I would like to talk to you a bit more about this. Would it be possible to contact you? Lets switch to PM.

[ June 16, 2003, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: TAC ]

mhd

06-16-2003, 07:44 PM

DJ Timmy Richardson

06-16-2003, 08:31 PM

David is right about being able to put the stuff out legally. Leonard Roberts(RIP) had put out all the breakbeat stuff ILLEGALLY on bootlegs back in the late 70's and the 80's. HE then decided to do it legit. And the series is still available to this day except for one volume which is out of print. So if this guy wanted to do it right he could.

blackwax

06-17-2003, 03:10 AM

personaly i have never stocked the loft or garage classics series even though i do get asked for them I much prefer to sell an original copy or recomend something with a similar sound.
I try to avoid stocking bootlegs and yes sometimes this can hurt financaly.
for instance dino & terry ride the storm/in his power was bootlegged I refused to stock it many of my customers went to london and purchased it after a time in his power was released on crash (there label) I stocked it and still sold 15-20 copies i could have sold more if it wasn't for the bottlegs but a least i have peace of mind that the money was going to the people that deserved it who would in turn re-invest into making another hot song.
however there are times i will stock a bootleg for instance if a record company won't release a good song because they don't think its commercialy viable. this can be tricky getting correct information on such titles it dosn't always work but at least i try wich is more than most stores

what are your thoughts david

der geile hund

06-17-2003, 05:21 AM

Jolyon

06-17-2003, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by der geile hund:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kim lightfoot:
ghost of donger..."if this series wasn't around, i don't think your legacy would have stayed as potent as it did for this long period of time"...yo, you've gotta be kidding me...you should do some research before you make comments like that about david or anybody else...kim Hey, is Unidisc legit? [/QUOTE]Technically yes. In reality, I've heard stories...

blackwax

06-17-2003, 05:24 AM

Then what about the nuphonic sets did they not do the same only legaly?

der geile hund

06-17-2003, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by blackwax:
Then what about the nuphonic sets did they not do the same only legaly? What do you mean "do the same"? Keep the name "Loft" in the public consciousness? Yes, of course, but only fairly recently. I've got a few of the dreaded bootlegs, and I bought them in like '94-'95. The MasterCuts series were the ones I remember doing legitimate reissues and getting widely distributed back then, although the sound quality on those also wasn't always so great for some reason.

der geile hund

06-17-2003, 05:33 AM

Incidentally, the "Spaced Out" comp on Strut changed my life, and my copy is now all but worn down! So anyone have a 12" with Raw Silk "Just In Time" dub they wanna sell me?

Prince HiFi

06-17-2003, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by blackwax:
Then what about the nuphonic sets did they not do the same only legaly? Also, are those NUPHONIC Loft sets still available? Obviously the mastered stampers still exist, despite NUPHONIC ceasing trading. I would like to buy both sets (I got the Joe Gibbs/Risco Connection 10"). Having these sets in print would seem key to devaluing the appeal of the bootlegs.

HiFi

blackwax

06-17-2003, 05:42 AM

are you in the u.k there is a shop near me that has one in stock

Prince HiFi

06-17-2003, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by blackwax:
are you in the u.k there is a shop near me that has one in stock No, I'm in Canada and would like to order them from somewhere in North America, but I may get back to you on that... Thanks Blackwax! smile.gif

Mah'chew

06-17-2003, 05:47 AM

DMR in Tokyo has them stocked as well, I think I've seen them in HMV as well.

blackwax

06-17-2003, 05:48 AM

I may call jules (nuphonic) too see if he can lay his hands on some more copies

The Donger

06-17-2003, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by kim lightfoot:
ghost of donger..."if this series wasn't around, i don't think your legacy would have stayed as potent as it did for this long period of time"...yo, you've gotta be kidding me...you should do some research before you make comments like that about david or anybody else...kim Funny you mention that.

This bootleg series is what led me to do the research on David Mancuso and "The Loft". Just like my generation (mid 20s) has done.

Most old school heads are a bunch of pretentious queens that keep all the history to themselves, unless it's used to make themselves appear more important than you in some awkward record store situation.

So yeah, this bootleg series contributed a lot to my generation and younger generations, otherwise "the legacy" would just die out with all the old heads. They aint passing anything down. That's why there is barely any new blood in the scene, but that's another thread...

David, when you get booked overseas, are you playing for original Loft babies that moved out of the country? Or are you playing for people that learned about you over the years? I bet the bootleg series has contributed much to this.

I would dare say most foriegners and new domestic blood learned about you and the Loft sound through the bootlegs in the record stores, and intitally through the records that sampled them. Then the research was done.

Moksha

06-17-2003, 09:27 AM

Regardless of whether or not bootlegs are good or evil...
Regardless of whether or not Loft Classics helped David's name...
Regardless of whether or not lots of DJs own these...

The bottom line is: These releases are stealing, then betraying the ideals and concepts behind David's parties. To see that these dance music record stores (which, arguably might not even BE HERE without David's contributions to this scene), music lovers (who are not acting in a very loving way towards DM, the artists or the songs), and pirates (who should be shut down) are all contributing to this is very disappointing. :(

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-17-2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by blackwax:
I may call jules (nuphonic) too see if he can lay his hands on some more copies Are you a shopkeep? Do you do online?

More of a good thing would be great. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Ask if there are any plans for a volume 3! (hint,hint)

blackwax

06-17-2003, 09:39 AM

its all about respect these people where asked not to put these boots out by david and still did it purely for profit that sucks mad1.gif

blackwax

06-17-2003, 09:43 AM

hi toomuch yes i have a shop in the u.k our web site will be up and running in around 2 weeks with online shopping if your interested i can put you on our database pm me with your email if you like
p.s i have left a message for jules at nuphonic or ragbull as thats his new label

Bill Blake

06-17-2003, 09:46 AM

Well Dave's 'Loft' association is a hell of a lot stronger case than Spike Lee's case is.

Whether they did it for reasons that may have been good in the past, I think we can all agree that its time to pay the piper and now that the money is being made to do it right.....do it right.

Never bought one due to low quality.

Side note HA HA HA HA HAH H AHA HA

FROM NOW ON ALL MY MIXES ARE GONNA BE TITLED:

LIL RAY CLASSICS....VOLUMES 1 (through N)

HA ha ha hah a

[ June 17, 2003, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Jamie Lennox ]

Topester

06-17-2003, 09:57 AM

coming very late to this one to add my two cents...

Aside from David's understandable gripes with these, you have to take issue with the quality of the pressings on the Loft Classics and Garage Classics series. They sound just terrible. Have you ever heard anyone play them out - my god they sound so quiet and tinny.

On the other hand, as a partner in a 100% legit reissue and re-edit label (OST Recordings) I have to say the major record labels bear a degree of responsibility for the rash of bootleg 12"s. The majority of the majors (who seem to hoover up a large chunk of the rights to the classics we want to release) simply won't deal with a small operation who want to release a couple of thousand 12"s because they want to get the music out there. They will license to Simply Vinyl cos they're concentrating on bulk rather than targetting particular tunes, and they'll license to a compilation album where they can see some possibility of bigger returns, but if you're selling 2000 copies of a tune they own but don't care about they simply can't be bothered with the paperwork for it.

On the upside (you knew the plug was coming dincha?) soon come on our label, a lovely loud, legal cut of Funkanova with a brilliant re-edit from DHP's very own Ladyboy...

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-17-2003, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by Topester:
coming very late to this one to add my two cents...

Aside from David's understandable gripes with these, you have to take issue with the quality of the pressings on the Loft Classics and Garage Classics series. They sound just terrible. Have you ever heard anyone play them out - my god they sound so quiet and tinny.

On the other hand, as a partner in a 100% legit reissue and re-edit label (OST Recordings) I have to say the major record labels bear a degree of responsibility for the rash of bootleg 12"s. The majority of the majors (who seem to hoover up a large chunk of the rights to the classics we want to release) simply won't deal with a small operation who want to release a couple of thousand 12"s because they want to get the music out there. They will license to Simply Vinyl cos they're concentrating on bulk rather than targetting particular tunes, and they'll license to a compilation album where they can see some possibility of bigger returns, but if you're selling 2000 copies of a tune they own but don't care about they simply can't be bothered with the paperwork for it.

On the upside (you knew the plug was coming dincha?) soon come on our label, a lovely loud, legal cut of Funkanova with a brilliant re-edit from DHP's very own Ladyboy... THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!!! Or rather, THAT'S WHAT i'M TALKING ABOUT!!! Sorry to yell. It's the majors that are sitting on this music! They've been doing it for years and by and large have unwittingly helped to fuel the re-issue and yes, the bootleg market.

BTW, lemme know when that "Funknova" of yours comes out.

[ June 17, 2003, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: toomuchtv ]

blackwax

06-17-2003, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Topester:
coming very late to this one to add my two cents...

Aside from David's understandable gripes with these, you have to take issue with the quality of the pressings on the Loft Classics and Garage Classics series. They sound just terrible. Have you ever heard anyone play them out - my god they sound so quiet and tinny.

On the other hand, as a partner in a 100% legit reissue and re-edit label (OST Recordings) I have to say the major record labels bear a degree of responsibility for the rash of bootleg 12"s. The majority of the majors (who seem to hoover up a large chunk of the rights to the classics we want to release) simply won't deal with a small operation who want to release a couple of thousand 12"s because they want to get the music out there. They will license to Simply Vinyl cos they're concentrating on bulk rather than targetting particular tunes, and they'll license to a compilation album where they can see some possibility of bigger returns, but if you're selling 2000 copies of a tune they own but don't care about they simply can't be bothered with the paperwork for it.

On the upside (you knew the plug was coming dincha?) soon come on our label, a lovely loud, legal cut of Funkanova with a brilliant re-edit from DHP's very own Ladyboy... yo topester who is gonna be distributing these I wanna stock em in my shop hit me with a pm with the lowdown
Thanks
smile.gif

kev

06-17-2003, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by Orion:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kevin koga:
- David, I just wanted to say that I always had a feeling that you did not have anything to do with the "Loft Classics" series, b/c I found the sound quality to be poor. When I think of the name David Mancuso I think of quality which the LC series lack.
The fact that you had a "feeling," but did not know for sure speaks volumes about this topic. David's name is being hijacked. [/QUOTE]Excellent point. Really, the only way I would've known FOR SURE if David was indeed behind the "Loft Classics" would be if I heard it from his mouth. Which I didn't until now.

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-17-2003, 10:17 AM

Hey blackwax, check your pm's.

Mah'chew

06-17-2003, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kim lightfoot:
ghost of donger..."if this series wasn't around, i don't think your legacy would have stayed as potent as it did for this long period of time"...yo, you've gotta be kidding me...you should do some research before you make comments like that about david or anybody else...kim Funny you mention that.

This bootleg series is what led me to do the research on David Mancuso and "The Loft". Just like my generation (mid 20s) has done.

Most old school heads are a bunch of pretentious queens that keep all the history to themselves, unless it's used to make themselves appear more important than you in some awkward record store situation.

So yeah, this bootleg series contributed a lot to my generation and younger generations, otherwise "the legacy" would just die out with all the old heads. They aint passing anything down. That's why there is barely any new blood in the scene, but that's another thread...

David, when you get booked overseas, are you playing for original Loft babies that moved out of the country? Or are you playing for people that learned about you over the years? I bet the bootleg series has contributed much to this.

I would dare say most foriegners and new domestic blood learned about you and the Loft sound through the bootlegs in the record stores, and intitally through the records that sampled them. Then the research was done. [/QUOTE]Donger, you are so right, collecting good music is the resrve of the US public only. We learnt everything through the boots, how else would we know? mad1.gif

The Donger

06-17-2003, 10:23 AM

For the record I am once again stating that I think bootlegging is wrong, especially in David's case since it is against his will.

I am also stating on record that there has been some good that came out of this bootleg series.

blackwax

06-17-2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by toomuchtv:
Hey blackwax, check your pm's. just sent you an email of bits that came in today

mhd

06-17-2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
For the record I am once again stating that I think bootlegging is wrong, especially in David's case since it is against his will.

I am also stating on record that there has been some good that came out of this bootleg series. trust, there are more and better ways, not to mention, legal and ethical, ways to learn this music and its history, notwithstanding your own experiences

The Donger

06-17-2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Mathius:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kim lightfoot:
ghost of donger..."if this series wasn't around, i don't think your legacy would have stayed as potent as it did for this long period of time"...yo, you've gotta be kidding me...you should do some research before you make comments like that about david or anybody else...kim Funny you mention that.

This bootleg series is what led me to do the research on David Mancuso and "The Loft". Just like my generation (mid 20s) has done.

Most old school heads are a bunch of pretentious queens that keep all the history to themselves, unless it's used to make themselves appear more important than you in some awkward record store situation.

So yeah, this bootleg series contributed a lot to my generation and younger generations, otherwise "the legacy" would just die out with all the old heads. They aint passing anything down. That's why there is barely any new blood in the scene, but that's another thread...

David, when you get booked overseas, are you playing for original Loft babies that moved out of the country? Or are you playing for people that learned about you over the years? I bet the bootleg series has contributed much to this.

I would dare say most foriegners and new domestic blood learned about you and the Loft sound through the bootlegs in the record stores, and intitally through the records that sampled them. Then the research was done. [/QUOTE]Donger, you are so right, collecting good music is the resrve of the US public only. We learnt everything through the boots, how else would we know? mad1.gif [/QUOTE]What does "resrve" mean?

Do you know what "domestic" means?

Martin Red

06-17-2003, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by der geile hund:
Incidentally, the "Spaced Out" comp on Strut changed my life, and my copy is now all but worn down! So anyone have a 12" with Raw Silk "Just In Time" dub they wanna sell me? Let me check I had three and I know two went, bear with me....

mdpm99

06-17-2003, 10:34 AM

Trust is a must..

smile.gif

d

Mah'chew

06-17-2003, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mathius:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kim lightfoot:
ghost of donger..."if this series wasn't around, i don't think your legacy would have stayed as potent as it did for this long period of time"...yo, you've gotta be kidding me...you should do some research before you make comments like that about david or anybody else...kim Funny you mention that.

This bootleg series is what led me to do the research on David Mancuso and "The Loft". Just like my generation (mid 20s) has done.

Most old school heads are a bunch of pretentious queens that keep all the history to themselves, unless it's used to make themselves appear more important than you in some awkward record store situation.

So yeah, this bootleg series contributed a lot to my generation and younger generations, otherwise "the legacy" would just die out with all the old heads. They aint passing anything down. That's why there is barely any new blood in the scene, but that's another thread...

David, when you get booked overseas, are you playing for original Loft babies that moved out of the country? Or are you playing for people that learned about you over the years? I bet the bootleg series has contributed much to this.

I would dare say most foriegners and new domestic blood learned about you and the Loft sound through the bootlegs in the record stores, and intitally through the records that sampled them. Then the research was done. [/QUOTE]Donger, you are so right, collecting good music is the resrve of the US public only. We learnt everything through the boots, how else would we know? mad1.gif [/QUOTE]What does "resrve" mean?

Do you know what "domestic" means? [/QUOTE]You're right Donger the world found out about the music David plays through these bootlegs http://deephousepage.com/smilies/jo1.gif

The Donger

06-17-2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
For the record I am once again stating that I think bootlegging is wrong, especially in David's case since it is against his will.

I am also stating on record that there has been some good that came out of this bootleg series. trust, there are more and better ways, not to mention, legal and ethical, ways to learn this music and its history, notwithstanding your own experiences [/QUOTE]I agree. And there is MUCH more to my experience than this series, matter of factly I only bought one and returned it to dancetracks cause the pressing was so shitty. I got my $ back. But I still listened to them all and didn't buy them.

I am just stating that some good has come out of this as well.

Mah'chew

06-17-2003, 10:40 AM

*bootlegged post*

[ June 17, 2003, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Mathius ]

Jolyon

06-17-2003, 10:41 AM

I think what Donger is saying is that every cloud has a silver lining.

Bill Blake

06-17-2003, 10:46 AM

Dave I have a favor to ask.

TAC and I dont have copies of SHAZZ El Camino Part 1.

We both really like the song 'New York City Vibes' on that record.

I dont know if there was ever a time you played it at The Loft Parties but is there any way you could lie and claim it is a Loft Classic and license it properly and put it on Loft Classics Volume 3?

I got both volumes 1 and 2.

matthew

06-17-2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
Trust is a must..

smile.gif

d beans in your jeans smile.gif

The Donger

06-17-2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Jolyon:
I think what Donger is saying is that every cloud has a silver lining. Thanks.

der geile hund

06-17-2003, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
For the record I am once again stating that I think bootlegging is wrong, especially in David's case since it is against his will.

I am also stating on record that there has been some good that came out of this bootleg series. trust, there are more and better ways, not to mention, legal and ethical, ways to learn this music and its history, notwithstanding your own experiences [/QUOTE]Duh. The better, legal, and ethical ways just came later for some of us, that's all. A kid who just started buying records doesn't understand the implications of a bootleg.

mdpm99

06-17-2003, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by matthew:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
Trust is a must..

smile.gif

d beans in your jeans smile.gif [/QUOTE]graemlins/beerchug.gif

d

06-17-2003, 11:03 AM

well, mr. mancuso...hope helps you cope - you can cope with hope...

much power to you and your quest and may God bless...

smile.gif

Jolyon

06-17-2003, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by matthew:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
Trust is a must..

smile.gif

d beans in your jeans smile.gif [/QUOTE]Well, love a duck.

mdpm99

06-17-2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
well, mr. mancuso...hope helps you cope - you can cope with hope...

much power to you and your quest and may God bless...

smile.gif Greetings Ms Rickey X:

Those are very kind and thoughtful words.....and I thank you.

smile.gif

d

Bold Soul

06-17-2003, 11:13 AM

Well, bootlegging is a symptom of all the "love" in "this thing" called BUSINESS...oops, I mean House.

The reason why bootlegs are always going to be available and profitable is because the few who possessed the hot tracks held onto them to keep the value of the DJ, promoter and CLIQUE of the moment higher. Competition doesn't allow sharing. Why mass produce yourself out of a job, hm?

House is dead because its business was run by people who focused on being big men in the booth rather than big men at the bank. There is always more money and value in being legit, but the pathway to legimitacy is usually through illegimitacy. Bootlegging is a symptom, not a cause.

You can't get on at the clubs and sets you want to play, you're up and coming, you don' want to be someone's lackey/bitch/whore - you need an edge - a leg up. Someone presses up tunes that your competitors are keeping you from having - you're going to get them. Gotta have that edge.

DM created record pools, broke new music and generally supported the community for a long time and it's quite shitty that this Loft Classics thing can effect someone who has shared himself in so many ways.

But everyone else, from labels to DJs to club owners to patrons aren't so noble. I don't envy DJs in the slightest. So much bullshit for very little reward it seems.

terryd

06-17-2003, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by blackwax:
personaly i have never stocked the loft or garage classics series even though i do get asked for them I much prefer to sell an original copy or recomend something with a similar sound.
I try to avoid stocking bootlegs and yes sometimes this can hurt financaly.
for instance dino & terry ride the storm/in his power was bootlegged I refused to stock it many of my customers went to london and purchased it after a time in his power was released on crash (there label) I stocked it and still sold 15-20 copies i could have sold more if it wasn't for the bottlegs but a least i have peace of mind that the money was going to the people that deserved it who would in turn re-invest into making another hot song.
however there are times i will stock a bootleg for instance if a record company won't release a good song because they don't think its commercialy viable. this can be tricky getting correct information on such titles it dosn't always work but at least i try wich is more than most stores

what are your thoughts david Thank you, and I wish more people were like you and showed similar restraint. The bootleg really upset us at the time, but fortunately the distribution of the bootleg was not that extensive and I'd like to think some people at least did the right thing and bought the legitimate release once available even if they had the bootleg.

The one thing that people don't necessarily realize is how upsetting this can be aside from "business" reasons. Most people aren't getting rich putting records out nowadays, so the fact that the sales may have been hurt a little is not the main issue. The worst part is knowing that someone stole something from you for their own benefit, so I completely understand David's frustration.

The Donger

06-17-2003, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Mathius:
What does "resrve" mean?

Do you know what "domestic" means? [/QUOTE]

What, that you had trouble with the old lady, knocked her around a bit for touching your bootlegs and the cops came round to slap a court order on you? [/QB][/QUOTE]

Sorry, I didn't grow up in your trailer park.

Drrtynewyork

06-17-2003, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mathius:
What does "resrve" mean?

Do you know what "domestic" means? [/QUOTE]What, that you had trouble with the old lady, knocked her around a bit for touching your bootlegs and the cops came round to slap a court order on you? [/QUOTE]

Sorry, I didn't grow up in your trailer park. [/QB][/QUOTE]

http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~asbond/oh_snap.gif

JuanMa

06-17-2003, 01:44 PM

David,
I could not respect your viewpoint any more than I do already. Your support for artists' rights and of good karma is an inspiration to me.

Any plans to return to Los Angeles?

Peace,
Juan

graemlins/beerchug.gif

rob gregory

06-17-2003, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Dave I have a favor to ask.

TAC and I dont have copies of SHAZZ El Camino Part 1.

We both really like the song 'New York City Vibes' on that record.

I dont know if there was ever a time you played it at The Loft Parties but is there any way you could lie and claim it is a Loft Classic and license it properly and put it on Loft Classics Volume 3?

I got both volumes 1 and 2. graemlins/rofl.gif

I want that song bad too.

The Donger

06-17-2003, 01:55 PM

Shoulda bought it when it came out suckas!

Should I bootleg it?

Bill Blake

06-17-2003, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
Shoulda bought it when it came out suckas!

Should I bootleg it? I was in butt **** florida at the time asswhipe!

Phore and TAC have no excuse though.

Moksha

06-17-2003, 02:21 PM

Anybody try HERE (http://db5.gemm.com/ddc/search.pl?sid=361628505&key=35243&a_refno=GML484657992) for Shazz?

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-17-2003, 02:24 PM

I dunno if that will work. The Disque website hasn't been working for some time.

Moksha

06-17-2003, 02:27 PM

Can't you call?

Other sellers have the CD...

Bill Blake

06-17-2003, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Orion:
Can't you call?

Other sellers have the CD... CD?

I dont want the damn CD

Bold Soul

06-17-2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion:
Can't you call?

Other sellers have the CD... CD?

I dont want the damn CD [/QUOTE]Badges?

We don't need no stinkin' badges!

SHEIK YERBOUTI

06-17-2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Orion:
Can't you call?

Other sellers have the CD... There's a few things I've seen on their site, BUT I ain't calling the UK just to order a record. If someone wants something bad enough, more power to them.

When the site was working, ordering was cool. I have purchased from Disque before.

mdpm99

06-17-2003, 02:46 PM

re post:

> GOVERNMENT ANNOUNCEMENT...

> The government announced today that it is changing
> its emblem to a condom, because it more clearly reflects
> the government's political stance. A condom stands up to
> inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
> protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of
> security while it's actually screwing you. ***

How's that for an accurate assessment?
>>

Drrtynewyork

06-17-2003, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
re post:

> GOVERNMENT ANNOUNCEMENT...

> The government announced today that it is changing
> its emblem to a condom, because it more clearly reflects
> the government's political stance. A condom stands up to
> inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
> protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of
> security while it's actually screwing you. ***

How's that for an accurate assessment?
>> and just like a condom, if theres a leak in govt.. abort , abort, abort the mission

flypitcher

06-17-2003, 03:29 PM

Nothing is original. Picasso was the perfect plagarist as he admitted.

It seems this thread is about ego.

My name, my club,my record, me,me,me, me.......................

Get rid of the egos and this concept of ownership.

As it has been said and will be said again:

"LET THE MUSIC TAKE CONTROL" ;)

[ June 17, 2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: flypitcher ]

flypitcher

06-17-2003, 03:31 PM

And bold soul I am never going looking for gold with you :D

rob gregory

06-17-2003, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
Shoulda bought it when it came out suckas!

Should I bootleg it? I was in butt **** florida at the time asswhipe!

Phore and TAC have no excuse though. [/QUOTE]I'm in Cali. Not as bad as Florida though. :rolleyes:

kev

06-17-2003, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
[QUOTE]I'm in Cali. Not as bad as Florida though. :rolleyes: Where in Cali are you?

Prince HiFi

06-17-2003, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by flypitcher:
My name, my club,my record, me,me,me, me.......................

Get rid of the egos and this concept of ownership.

As it has been said and will be said again:

"LET THE MUSIC TAKE CONTROL" ;) Or is it rather "MY name of MY club is on YOUR bootleg records"?

You seriously ascribe this to ego?

HiFi

flypitcher

06-17-2003, 03:57 PM

still vanity however you wrap it up and then oh the curse of capitalism when money comes into it :eek:

rob gregory

06-17-2003, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by kevin koga:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:

I'm in Cali. Not as bad as Florida though. :rolleyes: Where in Cali are you? Los Angeles

TAC

06-17-2003, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
Shoulda bought it when it came out suckas!

Should I bootleg it? I was in butt **** florida at the time asswhipe!

Phore and TAC have no excuse though. [/QUOTE]And I was in DC. Yo, chill wit dat, yo. I worked three times as hard to get my music. Stuff went by.

mhd

06-17-2003, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
For the record I am once again stating that I think bootlegging is wrong, especially in David's case since it is against his will.

I am also stating on record that there has been some good that came out of this bootleg series. trust, there are more and better ways, not to mention, legal and ethical, ways to learn this music and its history, notwithstanding your own experiences [/QUOTE]I agree. And there is MUCH more to my experience than this series, matter of factly I only bought one and returned it to dancetracks cause the pressing was so shitty. I got my $ back. But I still listened to them all and didn't buy them.

I am just stating that some good has come out of this as well. [/QUOTE]oh, like a jaguar?

Mah'chew

06-17-2003, 08:36 PM

lesysteme

06-17-2003, 08:51 PM

jags are nice but im looking for an old fiat spyder.

hey terry! hoping all is well for you kats up there, give dino a big "what up" for me.

cheers!

so its egotistical to be in the postion to be able to demand that the artists you'll be presenting will be getting paid? i dont understandhow this is egotistical one bit.

Imagine you wrote a track, herd throught the grape vine that back in the day, it was played alot at the loft in NYC, then one day went into a record store and saw all these records (that looked like they were put out by the loft) with your track on it and knowing you were never contacted for a lisensing agreement...what would your impression of the ppl that ran the loft be then i wonder?

youd' most likey say to yourself, "now why would they go and do a thing like that, i always thought Mancuso was cool"

i dont see any ego here except for the ppl knowingly buying bootlegs yet trying to somehow defend it. im not saying dont "do whatcha havta do" but also see what youre doing and atleast take some moral responsiblity for it (in this case, just alteast fess up and call it for what it is, ripping ppl of)...

this is an artform that we all love unfort intertwined with a business...no amount of discussion will ever change that reality.

[ June 17, 2003, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: lesysteme ]

Mah'chew

06-17-2003, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mathius:
What does "resrve" mean?

Do you know what "domestic" means? [/QUOTE]What, that you had trouble with the old lady, knocked her around a bit for touching your bootlegs and the cops came round to slap a court order on you? [/QUOTE]Sorry, I didn't grow up in your trailer park. [/QUOTE]

http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~asbond/oh_snap.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]

http://www.mindpiss.com/img/anims/meow_mix.gif

Monny JcIntosh

06-18-2003, 03:39 AM

Disque will be unlikely to have El Camino Pt. 1 in stock. They list everything they have ever had in so's to drum up trade.

Martin Red

06-18-2003, 04:14 AM

I just wanted to be 200th post on this thread smile.gif

http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/gangrel00x/images/part09.jpg

The Compiler

06-18-2003, 10:07 AM

OOH that 200th post was cold....AND NAMED NAMES- using a PICTURE.
And a lot of you don't even realize it...
(some of you do though..)

Jolyon

06-18-2003, 10:20 AM

Mr Tee?

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by JuanMa:
David,
I could not respect your viewpoint any more than I do already. Your support for artists' rights and of good karma is an inspiration to me.

Any plans to return to Los Angeles?

Peace,
Juan

graemlins/beerchug.gif Greetings Juan:

Hopefully one day soon. Please give my regards.

smile.gif

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Martin Red:
I just wanted to be 200th post on this thread smile.gif

http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/gangrel00x/images/part09.jpg smile.gif

d

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by lesysteme:
jags are nice but im looking for an old fiat spyder.

hey terry! hoping all is well for you kats up there, give dino a big "what up" for me.

cheers!

so its egotistical to be in the postion to be able to demand that the artists you'll be presenting will be getting paid? i dont understandhow this is egotistical one bit.

Imagine you wrote a track, herd throught the grape vine that back in the day, it was played alot at the loft in NYC, then one day went into a record store and saw all these records (that looked like they were put out by the loft) with your track on it and knowing you were never contacted for a lisensing agreement...what would your impression of the ppl that ran the loft be then i wonder?

youd' most likey say to yourself, "now why would they go and do a thing like that, i always thought Mancuso was cool"

i dont see any ego here except for the ppl knowingly buying bootlegs yet trying to somehow defend it. im not saying dont "do whatcha havta do" but also see what youre doing and atleast take some moral responsiblity for it (in this case, just alteast fess up and call it for what it is, ripping ppl of)...

this is an artform that we all love unfort intertwined with a business...no amount of discussion will ever change that reality. Greetings:

Thank you lesysteme.

smile.gif

d

And I am sure that other people that this is happening to - also thank you.

The Donger

06-18-2003, 10:41 AM

I'm pretty sure 99% of the people here agree bootleggin is foul, especially if tied to your name.

Does anyone else here think otherwise?

Now I am curious to find out who here still owns any of these bootlegs?

I bet most have bought at least one of them, otherwise this guy wouldn't have a jaguar.

liL Ray

06-18-2003, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:

Does anyone else here think otherwise?

Now I am curious to find out who here still owns any of these bootlegs? yes...

me...

kev

06-18-2003, 10:47 AM

Don't own any. Never bought one (as far as "Loft Classics"). Not to say I'm some sort of angel. I do own others (my Stevie Wonder live is probably my favorite).

D J 1 3 8

06-18-2003, 10:51 AM

I think I have a few.

The "Conquistadoros Chocolates" one and the one with "Flying Machine" on it. They sound alright actually. I have the original album version of "Flying Machine", but it's pressed at a pretty low volume so I use the bootleg. I often play the "Conquistadoros Chocolates" off of the Mastercuts LP cuz it sounds better.

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 11:09 AM

Question:

????

Why can't a DJ get someone who has an original copy, (a fellow dj for ex.) and burn a cd from it.

This would enable the DJ to play the music to his/her audience?

d

kev

06-18-2003, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
Question:

????

Why can't a DJ get someone who has an original copy, (a fellow dj for ex.) and burn a cd from it.

I do all the time. Really, what is having good music if you can't share it?

liL Ray

06-18-2003, 11:12 AM

that sound you here is whole new can of crap being open....

The Donger

06-18-2003, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
that sound you here is whole new can of crap being open.... True...

[ June 18, 2003, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Ghost Of Donger ]

liL Ray

06-18-2003, 11:16 AM

So let me get this straight....if it's bootleg and the artist doesn't get their rightful share, then that's wrong, but if we copy and share the song on a cd with others(how many is the "fair" number of copies, who sets the number...is it 5 copies or 50?), the artist still doesn't get their fair share but it's ok? Are we hearing ourselves?

C'mon...let's keep it real!!!

mad1.gif

[ June 18, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by kevin koga:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
Question:

????

Why can't a DJ get someone who has an original copy, (a fellow dj for ex.) and burn a cd from it.

I do all the time. Really, what is having good music if you can't share it? [/QUOTE]True.

d

kev

06-18-2003, 11:21 AM

Just for the record I personally am NOT anti-bootleg. I do own a couple.

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 11:24 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by liL Ray:
[qb] So let me get this straight....if it's bootleg and the artist doesn't get their rightful share, then that's wrong, but if we copy and share the song on a cd with others(how many is the "fair" number of copies, who sets the number...is it 5 copies or 50?), the artist still doesn't get their fair share but it's ok? Are we hearing ourselves?

C'mon...let's keep it real!!!

Greetings lil Ray:

If it is one copy for your own use and I am not selling it to you, and you are using it for work, is that a problem?

?

d

Ps This is to do only with something that is extinct more or less.

[ June 18, 2003, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

Prince HiFi

06-18-2003, 11:28 AM

I tried to mail-order one once but the shop said they didn't carry them. I did buy other classic bootlegs from them though.

I'm not totally clean on the bootleg thing. I've felt okay about it based on an article in Billboard magazine which said that the RIAA was making moves on pirate CDs but was not concerned with DJ vinyl bootlegs and unauthorized remixes. My assumption was they saw the DJ-bootleg market as helping create the next trends that they could cash in on with CDs.

It's a complicated topic, but the law is the law.

HiFi

The Donger

06-18-2003, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Prince HiFi:
My assumption was they saw the DJ-bootleg market as helping create the next trends that they could cash in on with CDs.
That's a great insight.

Moksha

06-18-2003, 11:34 AM

Again...it's not really about bootlegging. It's about the theft and misrepresentation of David's "Loft" brand.

Tee Cee 13

06-18-2003, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
http://deephousepage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=031342

d ----------------------------------

This is the real way to go David....
this is good....

Bold Soul

06-18-2003, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Orion:
Again...it's not really about bootlegging. It's about the theft and misrepresentation of David's "Loft" brand. Brands are trademarked and registered. Brands are established intellectual property. First use doctrine protects the original brand owner even if registration is pending.

Is the "Loft" brand an actual brand or just a clear association with DM?

liL Ray

06-18-2003, 11:38 AM

david, yes, it is! On one hand we are dissing bootleg, but on the other we are condoning it. In the ideal world you are describing of resisting bootleg and making sure the artist get paid for their work, there is NO WAY you should condone this "FILE SHARING", because even if it is just one copy, for that one, that artist won't get royalty for it. Please don't say we should send the royalty check out in the mail when we get a copy cd. A copy cd of a bought record is technically a bootleg. You can't control what happens after you give it away.

just wanted you see it another way...

erd

06-18-2003, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
So let me get this straight....if it's bootleg and the artist doesn't get their rightful share, then that's wrong, but if we copy and share the song on a cd with others(how many is the "fair" number of copies, who sets the number...is it 5 copies or 50?), the artist still doesn't get their fair share but it's ok? Are we hearing ourselves?

C'mon...let's keep it real!!!

mad1.gif The artist gets no money, but so does the bootlegger.

And what is people's take on boots that don't feature the original but an edited version?

That whole bootleg thing is a vicious circle.

Peace.

Gerd

erd

06-18-2003, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Orion:
Again...it's not really about bootlegging. It's about the theft and misrepresentation of David's "Loft" brand. That is foul indeed. And don'T say, you haven'T got David'S Loft in mind when you see those things. Btw, I have a few, too and always thought that they are soemhow directly linked to the Loft.

What is with the Paradise Garage boots?
Same guy?

Peace.

Gerd

liL Ray

06-18-2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by gj:
[QUOTE] The artist gets no money, but so does the bootlegger. ...and this makes it right with you? be real!!!

erd

06-18-2003, 11:47 AM

No. I just wanted to stress the differnece between "sharing" of other people's music and the selling of other people's music without paying royalties.

I know that the whole Amp Fiddler affair has hurt you, Ray :D

Peace.

Gerd

[ June 18, 2003, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: gj ]

Bold Soul

06-18-2003, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by gj:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion:
Again...it's not really about bootlegging. It's about the theft and misrepresentation of David's "Loft" brand. That is foul indeed. And don'T say, you haven'T got David'S Loft in mind when you see those things. Btw, I have a few, too and always thought that they are soemhow directly linked to the Loft.

What is with the Paradise Garage boots?
Same guy?

Peace.

Gerd [/QUOTE]Well, I own no bootlegs - I am not a DJ - and I do not associate "the Loft" naturally with DM. I understand that I am not hip to all the nuances of the history. A bit of research on DM reveals the legend of his "The Loft". All props due.

I have memories of great parties thrown at The Loft in Bloomington, IL. I have more memories of loft parties in the Gap and the west side of Chicago.

Found some other lofts on Google:

http://www.theloftlive.com/web/Venue.asp - georgia venue for parties and such.

http://www.loft.de/ - some concert promotion squad in Germany

erd

06-18-2003, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gj:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion:
Again...it's not really about bootlegging. It's about the theft and misrepresentation of David's "Loft" brand. That is foul indeed. And don'T say, you haven'T got David'S Loft in mind when you see those things. Btw, I have a few, too and always thought that they are soemhow directly linked to the Loft.

What is with the Paradise Garage boots?
Same guy?

Peace.

Gerd [/QUOTE]Well, I own no bootlegs - I am not a DJ - and I do not associate "the Loft" naturally with DM. I understand that I am not hip to all the nuances of the history. A bit of research on DM reveals the legend of his "The Loft". All props due.

I have memories of great parties thrown at The Loft in Bloomington, IL. I have more memories of loft parties in the Gap and the west side of Chicago.

Found some other lofts on Google:

http://www.theloftlive.com/web/Venue.asp - georgia venue for parties and such.

http://www.loft.de/ - some concert promotion squad in Germany [/QUOTE]Sure David's Loft isn't the only one on earth, but the music that is on the boots with the Loft tag is the same as championed by DM in his Loft. Therefore the unexstinguishable (sp?) connection.

Jolyon

06-18-2003, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by gj:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gj:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion:
Again...it's not really about bootlegging. It's about the theft and misrepresentation of David's "Loft" brand. That is foul indeed. And don'T say, you haven'T got David'S Loft in mind when you see those things. Btw, I have a few, too and always thought that they are soemhow directly linked to the Loft.

What is with the Paradise Garage boots?
Same guy?

Peace.

Gerd [/QUOTE]Well, I own no bootlegs - I am not a DJ - and I do not associate "the Loft" naturally with DM. I understand that I am not hip to all the nuances of the history. A bit of research on DM reveals the legend of his "The Loft". All props due.

I have memories of great parties thrown at The Loft in Bloomington, IL. I have more memories of loft parties in the Gap and the west side of Chicago.

Found some other lofts on Google:

http://www.theloftlive.com/web/Venue.asp - georgia venue for parties and such.

http://www.loft.de/ - some concert promotion squad in Germany [/QUOTE]Sure David's Loft isn't the only one on earth, but the music that is on the boots with the Loft tag is the same as championed by DM in his Loft. Therefore the unexstinguishable (sp?) connection. [/QUOTE]The bootlegs use the Little Rascals picture that D. put on Loft invitations. Of course Little Rascals pic is public property...but there's no denying that the Loft classics series was associating itself with DM's loft parties (despite his request they didn't).

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by liL Ray:
david, yes, it is! On one hand we are dissing bootleg, but on the other we are condoning it. In the ideal world you are describing of resisting bootleg and making sure the artist get paid for their work, there is NO WAY you should condone this "FILE SHARING", because even if it is just one copy, for that one, that artist won't get royalty for it. Please don't say we should send the royalty check out in the mail when we get a copy cd. A copy cd of a bought record is technically a bootleg. You can't control what happens after you give it away.

just wanted you see it another way... Greetings liL Ray:

Thank you for pointing this in another direction, and I do respectfully see your point.

There is a "Fair Use defense" stature. Keep in mind I am not an attorney nor trying act like one.

But I believe that if you are playing a copy of something for "promotional" (?) purposes i.e. as a DJ presenting music and the artist does not object than there should be no problem.

So in my efforts to try to see all sides of this and at the same time "not to conflict interests"
I was just trying to bring forth a possible path that would or might be a neutral one.

Food for thought: Perhaps we can come with a successful recipe for this whole situation after all is said and done.

smile.gif

d

Monny JcIntosh

06-18-2003, 12:49 PM

Many of the records that are bootlegged are very out of print. This doesn't condone bootlegging but doesn't it put CD copies on a par with buying an original off ebay? Either way, the artist isn't getting paid.

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion:
Again...it's not really about bootlegging. It's about the theft and misrepresentation of David's "Loft" brand. Brands are trademarked and registered. Brands are established intellectual property. First use doctrine protects the original brand owner even if registration is pending.

Is the "Loft" brand an actual brand or just a clear association with DM? [/QUOTE]It is registered in NYC by me. County clerks office 80 Center Street, Supereme Court Building.

d

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by gj:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gj:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion:
Again...it's not really about bootlegging. It's about the theft and misrepresentation of David's "Loft" brand. That is foul indeed. And don'T say, you haven'T got David'S Loft in mind when you see those things. Btw, I have a few, too and always thought that they are soemhow directly linked to the Loft.

What is with the Paradise Garage boots?
Same guy?

Peace.

Gerd [/QUOTE]Well, I own no bootlegs - I am not a DJ - and I do not associate "the Loft" naturally with DM. I understand that I am not hip to all the nuances of the history. A bit of research on DM reveals the legend of his "The Loft". All props due.

I have memories of great parties thrown at The Loft in Bloomington, IL. I have more memories of loft parties in the Gap and the west side of Chicago.

Found some other lofts on Google:

http://www.theloftlive.com/web/Venue.asp - georgia venue for parties and such.

http://www.loft.de/ - some concert promotion squad in Germany [/QUOTE]Sure David's Loft isn't the only one on earth, but the music that is on the boots with the Loft tag is the same as championed by DM in his Loft. Therefore the unexstinguishable (sp?) connection. [/QUOTE]Greeting gi:

Your spelling is just fine!

smile.gif

d

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Jonny McIntosh:
Many of the records that are bootlegged are very out of print. This doesn't condone bootlegging but doesn't it put CD copies on a par with buying an original off ebay? Either way, the artist isn't getting paid. If they are being sold, i.e. for commercial purposes, and no royalties are being paid, - yes.

d

Bold Soul

06-18-2003, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion:
Again...it's not really about bootlegging. It's about the theft and misrepresentation of David's "Loft" brand. Brands are trademarked and registered. Brands are established intellectual property. First use doctrine protects the original brand owner even if registration is pending.

Is the "Loft" brand an actual brand or just a clear association with DM? [/QUOTE]It is registered in NYC by me. County clerks office 80 Center Street, Supereme Court Building.

d [/QUOTE]It seems to me that a corporate name search, registration and federal trademark could take care of everything. You can go back pretty far to the early days of the Loft in NYC which helps in proving first use. After that, simple cease and desist orders can help limit the misuse of the association of The Loft with any efforts you find unjust.

Just my two cents. Hope all works out.

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Orion:
Again...it's not really about bootlegging. It's about the theft and misrepresentation of David's "Loft" brand. Brands are trademarked and registered. Brands are established intellectual property. First use doctrine protects the original brand owner even if registration is pending.

Is the "Loft" brand an actual brand or just a clear association with DM? [/QUOTE]It is registered in NYC by me. County clerks office 80 Center Street, Supereme Court Building.

d [/QUOTE]It seems to me that a corporate name search, registration and federal trademark could take care of everything. You can go back pretty far to the early days of the Loft in NYC which helps in proving first use. After that, simple cease and desist orders can help limit the misuse of the association of The Loft with any efforts you find unjust.

Just my two cents. Hope all works out. [/QUOTE]Thank you once again, Bold Soul.

graemlins/thumbsup.gif

d

Ps. I will also be putting up a disclaimer on theloftnyc.com web site

[ June 18, 2003, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

nev m

06-18-2003, 01:27 PM

These are on sale everywhere. Sombody is getting real fat on this.

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by nev m:
These are on sale everywhere. Sombody is getting real fat on this. Greetings nev m:

Sad but true....Wouldn't it be Karmic if they were made to pay all past royalties, donate money to a musicians fund and/or for the advancement of music/education + some kind of community work for the hearing impaired?

Justice I say!

smile.gif

d

[ June 18, 2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

dijekeje

06-18-2003, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
[QUOTE]
I respect the musicians and they should be supported. Even if I receive a record free and I use it for my parties I will still go out and buy a copy to support the artists. you know david, i just the other night said the same thing to an independent record label executive, but somehow i don't think he got it. nonetheless, it is good to know that i did. thanks for those much needed words of wisdom.

and speaking of parties. i used to go to the loft parties, and for that matter, the choice parties which were at the same location with richard vasquez and larry levan. what ever happened to these fabulous parties? i loved the feeling of commune-ity at that space. not like the fierce anti-social feel of come parties today. are you still doing parties? if so, e-mail me some info from my page.

DJ Keith Johnson
qmp / dp mixes by keith johnson
www.geocities.com/dijekeje (http://www.geocities.com/dijekeje)

DJ Timmy Richardson

06-18-2003, 02:13 PM

But im not sure that selling a record on Ebay, puts the buyer in position of owing royalties. it is a collector's item and is being sold as such. If that WERE the case, a person who resold a car , would have to owe the manufacturer or the dealer he bought it from, money. No?

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 02:15 PM

Please check your pm

d

Originally posted by dijekeje:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:

I respect the musicians and they should be supported. Even if I receive a record free and I use it for my parties I will still go out and buy a copy to support the artists. you know david, i just the other night said the same thing to an independent record label executive, but somehow i don't think he got it. nonetheless, it is good to know that i did. thanks for those much needed words of wisdom.

and speaking of parties. i used to go to the loft parties, and for that matter, the choice parties which were at the same location with richard vasquez and larry levan. what ever happened to these fabulous parties? i loved the feeling of commune-ity at that space. not like the fierce anti-social feel of come parties today. are you still doing parties? if so, e-mail me some info from my page.

DJ Keith Johnson
qmp / dp mixes by keith johnson
www.geocities.com/dijekeje (http://www.geocities.com/dijekeje) 

[ June 18, 2003, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

erd

06-18-2003, 02:18 PM

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by gj:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DJ Timmy Richardson:
But im not sure that selling a record on Ebay, puts the buyer in position of owing royalties. it is a collector's item and is being sold as such. If that WERE the case, a person who resold a car , would have to owe the manufacturer or the dealer he bought it from, money. No? 100% right, Timmy, but who said that?

Peace.

Gerd [/QUOTE]Ah! got it! I see your point Timmy. Me brain is on drain at the moment.

graemlins/cool_shades.gif

d

simon b

06-18-2003, 02:24 PM

mdpm99

06-18-2003, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by DJ Timmy Richardson:
But im not sure that selling a record on Ebay, puts the buyer in position of owing royalties. it is a collector's item and is being sold as such. If that WERE the case, a person who resold a car , would have to owe the manufacturer or the dealer he bought it from, money. No? Greetings Timmy....

Here's me brain on drain:

A "Bad Car" Day?

A police officer pulled over a driver and informed him that, because he was wearing his seat belt, he had just won $5,000 in a safety competition.

"Just out of curiosity," the officer asked, "what are you going to do with the prize money?"

The man responded, "I guess I'll go to driving school and get my license."

"Officer," his wife, who was seated next to him, chimed in, "don't listen to him. He's a smart aleck when he's drunk."

This woke up the guy in the back seat, who, when he saw the cop, blurted out, "I knew we wouldn't get far in this stolen car."

At that moment, there was a knock from the trunk and a voice asked "Are we over the border yet?"

smile.gif

d