Dave Clarke - " TECHNO HAS BECOME TOO WHITE"

[Martin Red]

http://www.djmag.com/images/mainteaser_mag1.jpg


Anyone now if this interview exists online

graemlins/conf44.gif

[ October 13, 2003, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

[dj c-los]

You don't have to find the intereview online.
I'll tell you right now....

"That is true!"

[Mr 1977]

Excuse my ignorance, but when was Techno too black or all Black? I go to Techno clubs, and I see many Hispanics, Asians and Blacks. Just like when I go to Shelter, I see all races, Don't believe the hype you read in these periodical magazines. I think they are trying to divide the musical audiences. Rememmber, the 88 keys of the piano are BLACK AND WHITE!

[Jamie 3:26]

Yo,it's the truth...f.uck all of that universal colors shit.PLUR ='s Bullshit,once the drugs wear off.

[Topester]

And if this is the case is Mr Clarke part of the solution or the problem?

[djyoavb]

Originally posted by Topester:
And if this is the case is Mr Clarke part of the solution or the problem? icon_rofl.gif

[O'love]

i always thought techno was green!?

[ivanjb]

Great, now I have Red 2 stuck in my head.

I'd like to read the article.

[ October 13, 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: ivanjb ]

[dj c-los]

Back in High School the majority of friends that i had that were into HEAVY METAL were white. We're talking about hard metal like Iron Maiden, AC/DC, King Daimond, etc.
Techno is like an aggressive electronic heavy metal. Go to a club down here and techno clubs are full of whites and asians.
May not be like that in Chicago but here it is.
Different cities, different scenes.

[djyoavb]

Originally posted by clos7:
Techno is like an aggressive electronic heavy metal. and house is stupid shallow repetitive gay music...
graemlins/stupid.gif

[ October 13, 2003, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: djyoavb ]

[Hk]

its surely marketed as being SOLELY WHITE, around and outside of Detroit....that's for sure.(general but its true by and large).

Despite our differences, its a creation from both European whites and blacks who live in America, yet one group is making riches from it and one isnt.

I smash both, if its good its good. Stasis, B12, Robert Hood, Drexciya, UR.....Kraftwerk....
I'll leave the division to you other cats, I dont have time to seperate it in terms of color, 2 busy.

[djyoavb]

Originally posted by Hk:
its surely marketed as being SOLELY WHITE, around and outside of Detroit....that's for sure.(general but its true by and large).

Despite our differences, its a creation from both European whites and blacks who live in America, yet one group is making riches from it and one isnt.

I smash both, if its good its good. Stasis, B12, Robert Hood, Drexciya, UR.....Kraftwerk....
I'll leave the division to you other cats, I dont have time to seperate it in terms of color, 2 busy. :D graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/cool_shades.gif

[lyot]

that's probably the reason why he's playing so much white techno, right ?

[Brut by Faberge]

Originally posted by djyoavb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by clos7:
Techno is like an aggressive electronic heavy metal. and house is stupid shallow repetitive gay music...
graemlins/stupid.gif </font>[/QUOTE]clos...you need some kevin reese saunderson, STAT! graemlins/spanka.gif

[dj c-los]

Originally posted by djyoavb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by clos7:
Techno is like an aggressive electronic heavy metal. and house is stupid shallow repetitive gay music...
graemlins/stupid.gif </font>[/QUOTE]I never criticized techno so sorry you took it so personal. Plus i just mentioned what's around this city. Sorry it didn't meet your expectations.
Never said its a white thing or a black thing...so take your time reading threads and don't get so defensive.

[djyoavb]

Originally posted by clos7:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djyoavb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by clos7:
Techno is like an aggressive electronic heavy metal. and house is stupid shallow repetitive gay music...
graemlins/stupid.gif </font>[/QUOTE]I never criticized techno so sorry you took it so personal. Plus i just mentioned what's around this city. Sorry it didn't meet your expectations.
Never said its a white thing or a black thing... </font>[/QUOTE]true, u said: "Techno is like an aggressive electronic heavy metal". graemlins/bighug.gif

[GROOVE VICTIM]

http://fusionanomaly.net/kraftwerk.jpg

Is the term "Too White" really the issue?

[So easy a protic can do it (QUAD)]

Originally posted by Martin Red:
http://www.djmag.com/images/mainteaser_mag1.jpg


Anyone now if this interview exists online

graemlins/conf44.gif graemlins/lol.gif graemlins/lol.gif graemlins/lol.gif graemlins/lol.gif I THOUGHT TECHNO WAS ELECTRONIC, MAN!! AND WHEN YOU GONE POST ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE GREAT "WORLD U.K." MIXES OF YOURS SO I CAN GET MY DANCE ON WHEN ON THE BUS GOIN TO WORK?? :D

[ October 13, 2003, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: DJ QUAD ]

[dj c-los]

Originally posted by djyoavb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by clos7:
I never criticized techno so sorry you took it so personal. Plus i just mentioned what's around this city. Sorry it didn't meet your expectations.
Never said its a white thing or a black thing... true, u said: "Techno is like an aggressive electronic heavy metal". graemlins/bighug.gif </font>[/QUOTE]graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[djyoavb]

graemlins/1luvu.gif

[Hk]

People, including myself, are real weird.

I'd be the first to admit that there's an agenda with dilluting the presence/influence of "black" culture in and on Techno. .

The entire situation is similar to a cat who doesnt like red apples but likes yellow apples...there still apples!

It's childish, just lay-that-shit if its good!

[Hk]

People, including myself, are real weird.

I'd be the first to admit that there's an agenda with dilluting the presence/influence of "black" culture in and on Techno. .

The entire situation is similar to a cat who doesnt like red apples but likes yellow apples...there still apples!

It's childish, just lay-that-shit if its good!

[Mocambo]

Originally posted by Hk:
People, including myself, are real weird.

I'd be the first to admit that there's an agenda with dilluting the presence/influence of "black" culture in and on Techno. .

The entire situation is similar to a cat who doesnt like red apples but likes yellow apples...there still apples!

It's childish, just lay-that-shit if its good! Hk, I like your tag line. It has multiple meanings.

[andrea]

Originally posted by Mr 1977:
Excuse my ignorance, but when was Techno too black or all Black? I go to Techno clubs, and I see many Hispanics, Asians and Blacks. Just like when I go to Shelter, I see all races, Don't believe the hype you read in these periodical magazines. I think they are trying to divide the musical audiences. Rememmber, the 88 keys of the piano are BLACK AND WHITE! what he said...

[SMOOTH87]

I saw this comment in DJ last week. I was surprised that he said this but this is very true and it is very good that he did take a stand. In all forms of black music the music seems to get diluted to be more acceptable to mainstream white culture...

[Brian]

that's the same thing Bobby Konders said in an interview about house music (and why he switched totally to reggae) years ago

[djyoavb]

respect is due to DC but in the last 4 years he's been playing the music he's now venting about. when i saw his comment i thought to myself wtf...

[Brut by Faberge]

Originally posted by Hk:
People, including myself, are real weird.

I'd be the first to admit that there's an agenda with dilluting the presence/influence of "black" culture in and on Techno. .

The entire situation is similar to a cat who doesnt like red apples but likes yellow apples...there still apples!

It's childish, just lay-that-shit if its good! seen. good music is good music. there is plenty of good techno out there, same as with anything else (polka, new age) i guess. it's all relative, jeez. personally i agree with hk on the "dilution" thing. but of course it takes a white person to voice pretty much anything for the mainstream to say, "hey, now there's an idea! let's capitalize." ho-hum.

[Pete Nice]

i like the idea that people feel something(espically music) belongs to them. they refuse the power music has and instead allow the color of their skin to cause division. once you put some part of your soul out there it no longer belongs to just you or your people. it is now bigger than you, and has the ability to cross boundaries we will not allow ourselves to cross. if you want something to belong to just you or your people, then you need to guard it more carefully and not turn it into a commodity that will eventaully be turned into a cliche. techno is too white. shut the hell up. try people are too stupid. of course things get diluted, but just so the white consumer will buy it???? get on the bus already. people will sell anything to anybody, so get over that white crap right there. we need to be treating music like culture instead of a disposable product and trend. but then again what the hell would i know... i'm part white.

[suenomartino]

What a revelation. :rolleyes:

Isn't he about 15 years too late with comments like this?

[El Mayimbe]

I havent read the interview but I am assuming that what Dave is hitting on is the lack of stimuli upon the techno tracks that have been produced as of lately.
Albeit many people on DHP might just roll their eyes and think it all sounds the same (funny that alot of hip hop heads would do the same to you guys when you play a Blaze track) but it really isnt and when you enjoy a good funky techno song, & when you find out more about the producers of these good tracks (in my personal experience) they have been black producers:

for example right now I cannot get enough of COLIN BEAN aka MR G's works. As i began to look at his background I found out not only that he is Black, but he was one half of the ADVENT.
Now did it matter that he was Black?
NO....to a certain extent
But when I notice the other techno songs I buy: Stacy Pullen, Jeff Mills, UR, they too tend to be Black artists as well.

Maybe its the upbringing of being a Black American that gives you the difference and sense of funkiness in the genre & that is what Dave Clarke (I'm assuming again) is touching upon.

[eleeut]

mr. g is the shit.

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by DJ QUAD:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Martin Red:
http://www.djmag.com/images/mainteaser_mag1.jpg


Anyone now if this interview exists online

graemlins/conf44.gif graemlins/lol.gif graemlins/lol.gif graemlins/lol.gif I THOUGHT TECHNO WAS ELECTRONIC, MAN!! AND WHEN YOU GONE POST ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE GREAT "WORLD U.K." MIXES OF YOURS SO I CAN GET MY DANCE ON WHEN ON THE BUS GOIN TO WORK?? :D </font>[/QUOTE]hail.gif i'll get on that sir. smile.gif

[MrLiam]

Techno was always a mixture of both white & black cultures
to make it simple Kraftwerk defined the sounds the synths its style and Detroits Kevin Sunderson & co defined its rhytm, groove, base & drums
now apart from all of this may be he is more talking Re color of music may be techno is not as dark as it used to be etc
IMO good music you can find it = how about the Laurent Garnier+Carl Craig colloboration Demented Drum that surely rocks graemlins/acclaim.gif

[djyoavb]

Originally posted by MrLiam:
Techno was always a mixture of both white & black cultures
to make it simple Kraftwerk defined the sounds the synths its style and Detroits Kevin Sunderson & co defined its rhytm, groove, base & drums
now apart from all of this may be he is more talking Re color of music may be techno is not as dark as it used to be etc
IMO good music you can find it = how about the Laurent Garnier+Carl Craig colloboration Demented Drum that surely rocks graemlins/acclaim.gif house is also a mixture of both white & black cultures

[djyoavb]

Originally posted by EL MAYIMBE:
for example right now I cannot get enough of COLIN BEAN aka MR G's works. As i began to look at his background I found out not only that he is Black, but he was one half of the ADVENT.
the name is Colin McBean graemlins/beerchug.gif

[Shalewa]

A word from the old-timer's bench...

Culture has long been a highly profitable commodity. A very large part of the US's global cultural and economic hegemony has been based on the ability of its entertainment industry to capture the eyes, ears and imagination of people all over the world. Virtually every mainstream popular musical genre to become a worldwide craze has is substantially rooted in Black culture. These roots have been variously obscured, forgotten and denied as genre after genre moved from sub-culture to popular culture to worldwide cultural phenomena through a persistent pattern of cultural theivery known in cultural studies as de-racialization (yes children, there is a name for this). Creative credit is co-opted, there is often a smoothing out of edges or a softening of tone as more palatable performers (often performing covers) are presented to the mainstream commercial audience and the material gain inherent in the growth of the market for this music does not return to the creators. There is an interesting and persistent irony also in that often the perceived Blackness (edginess, rawness, soulfulness, realness, coolness, hipness, rootsiness, sexiness, depth and authenticity can often be read as code words for Blackness) that gave the genre its initial cachet is often mourned by some small and vocal minority who usually become a sort of underground which fosters the continued development of the genre. This underground is seldom predominantly Black, but is generally more likely to offer some acknowledgment of a Black presence in the creation of the genre and tolerates a larger Black presence in its ranks than the mainstream does but is often also committed to minimizing the real role that racial dynamics play and embrace facile notions of universality and transcendence when uncomfortable discussions arise.

Check out R&B: Rhythm & Business, ed. Norman Kelley, Everything but the Burden, Greg Tate and Blues People by Leroi Jones (aka Amiri Baraka) for discussions of the the commercial and creative forces at work.

I am going back into retirement feel free to carry on.

[El Mayimbe]

Originally posted by djyoavb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by EL MAYIMBE:
for example right now I cannot get enough of COLIN BEAN aka MR G's works. As i began to look at his background I found out not only that he is Black, but he was one half of the ADVENT.
the name is Colin McBean graemlins/beerchug.gif </font>[/QUOTE]MY BAD!

and speaking of him there is one track i play that was under one of his monikers that always gets everyones attention but I dare not say it since its my secret weapon ;)
muahahahahaahahhahaahaha


I'm also feeling AGORIA's stuff lateley graemlins/grinyes.gif

[El Mayimbe]

Originally posted by Shalewa:
A word from the old-timer's bench...

Culture has long been a highly profitable commodity. A very large part of the US's global cultural and economic hegemony has been based on the ability of its entertainment industry to capture the eyes, ears and imagination of people all over the world. Virtually every mainstream popular musical genre to become a worldwide craze has is substantially rooted in Black culture. These roots have been variously obscured, forgotten and denied as genre after genre moved from sub-culture to popular culture to worldwide cultural phenomena through a persistent pattern of cultural theivery known in cultural studies as de-racialization (yes children, there is a name for this). Creative credit is co-opted, there is often a smoothing out of edges or a softening of tone as more palatable performers (often performing covers) are presented to the mainstream commercial audience and the material gain inherent in the growth of the market for this music does not return to the creators. There is an interesting and persistent irony also in that often the perceived Blackness (edginess, rawness, soulfulness, realness, coolness, hipness, rootsiness, sexiness, depth and authenticity can often be read as code words for Blackness) that gave the genre its initial cachet is often mourned by some small and vocal minority who usually become a sort of underground which fosters the continued development of the genre. This underground is seldom predominantly Black, but is generally more likely to offer some acknowledgment of a Black presence in the creation of the genre and tolerates a larger Black presence in its ranks than the mainstream does but is often also committed to minimizing the real role that racial dynamics play and embrace facile notions of universality and transcendence when uncomfortable discussions arise.

Check out R&B: Rhythm & Business, ed. Norman Kelley, Everything but the Burden, Greg Tate and Blues People by Leroi Jones (aka Amiri Baraka) for discussions of the the commercial and creative forces at work.

I am going back into retirement feel free to carry on. I can always look forward to Shalewas' brain boost when were discussing these issues @hand ;)
thanks for the info (had to read it 2x jsut to fully comprehend what was stated hehe)

[Brut by Faberge]

Originally posted by Shalewa:
These roots have been variously obscured, forgotten and denied as genre after genre moved from sub-culture to popular culture to worldwide cultural phenomena through a persistent pattern of cultural theivery known in cultural studies as de-racialization (yes children, there is a name for this). Aw man, I thought that was MY theory. I called it, the Pat Boone phenomenon. graemlins/rofl.gif

peace

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by Shalewa:
A word from the old-timer's bench...

Culture has long been a highly profitable commodity. A very large part of the US's global cultural and economic hegemony has been based on the ability of its entertainment industry to capture the eyes, ears and imagination of people all over the world. Virtually every mainstream popular musical genre to become a worldwide craze has is substantially rooted in Black culture. These roots have been variously obscured, forgotten and denied as genre after genre moved from sub-culture to popular culture to worldwide cultural phenomena through a persistent pattern of cultural theivery known in cultural studies as de-racialization (yes children, there is a name for this). Creative credit is co-opted, there is often a smoothing out of edges or a softening of tone as more palatable performers (often performing covers) are presented to the mainstream commercial audience and the material gain inherent in the growth of the market for this music does not return to the creators. There is an interesting and persistent irony also in that often the perceived Blackness (edginess, rawness, soulfulness, realness, coolness, hipness, rootsiness, sexiness, depth and authenticity can often be read as code words for Blackness) that gave the genre its initial cachet is often mourned by some small and vocal minority who usually become a sort of underground which fosters the continued development of the genre. This underground is seldom predominantly Black, but is generally more likely to offer some acknowledgment of a Black presence in the creation of the genre and tolerates a larger Black presence in its ranks than the mainstream does but is often also committed to minimizing the real role that racial dynamics play and embrace facile notions of universality and transcendence when uncomfortable discussions arise.

Check out R&B: Rhythm & Business, ed. Norman Kelley, Everything but the Burden, Greg Tate and Blues People by Leroi Jones (aka Amiri Baraka) for discussions of the the commercial and creative forces at work.

I am going back into retirement feel free to carry on. Thanks for looking out on the books smile.gif . See you at the DHP retirement party.

-G

[D J 1 3 8]

I should preface these comments with the admission that I know very little about techno, past or present.

While the deracialization of music in America is plain to see (for us at least), I wonder if the circumstances regarding dance music and techno in particular are a little different. True, the end result is the same: black folks getting the short end of the stick both in recognition and loot.

My question is this: Was there ever really a purposeful effort by anyone to soften techno and make it "less black"? I ask this because I really can't see any techno DJs or real techno labels having this motivation.

Could it be the case that white techno DJs and white-owned techno labels simply took the ball and ran with it, without any hidden agenda to discredit black folks?

Could it be that the white audience was simply much more open to techno music than the black audience?

Could the "whiteness" of techno be simply a natural evolution dictated by the personal taste of the audience in question and not, like so many genres before, a concerted scheme to rob black folks of their just rewards?

[ October 14, 2003, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: DJ 138 ]

[jimmymack-2000]

Originally posted by DJ 138:

Could it be the case that white techno DJs and wh9ite-owned techno labels simply took the ball and ran with it, without any hidden agenda to discredit black folks?
No. That's so logical, it's improbable.

[D J 1 3 8]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:

Could it be the case that white techno DJs and white-owned techno labels simply took the ball and ran with it, without any hidden agenda to discredit black folks?
No. That's so logical, it's improbable. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm sensing a bit of sarcasm here...

[El Mayimbe]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
I should preface these comments with the admission that I know very little about techno, past or present.

While the deracialization of music in America is plain to see (for us at least), I wonder if the circumstances regarding dance music and techno in particular are a little different. True, the end result is the same: black folks getting the short end of the stick both in recognition and loot.

My question is this: Was there ever really a purposeful effort by anyone to soften techno and make it "less black"? I ask this because I really can't see any techno DJs or real techno labels having this motivation.

Could it be the case that white techno DJs and white-owned techno labels simply took the ball and ran with it, without any hidden agenda to discredit black folks?

Could it be that the white audience was simply much more open to techno music than the black audience?

Could the "whiteness" of techno be simply a natural evolution dictated by the personal taste of the audience in question and not, like so many genres before, a concerted scheme to rob black folks of their just rewards? good questions and subjects brought up 138 but there is TOO MUCH to discuss and bring up that are at faults here on your curiosity and I'm too lazy to type up the clarifications of what your asking lol
but ina nutshell.
Black Techno DJs do get PAID and there are very good techno labels that are black owned, managed and runned. ;)
but i do agree that the white audience is waaaay more open for techno than a balck audience is, henceforth influencing more future producers who are white in this field.
And it is a vice versa thing since the pioneers of Techno were influenced not only by P Funk but also artists like Kraftwerk, Telex etc etc

[Ron la Rock]

Originally posted by Shalewa:
A word from the old-timer's bench...

Culture has long been a highly profitable commodity. A very large part of the US's global cultural and economic hegemony has been based on the ability of its entertainment industry to capture the eyes, ears and imagination of people all over the world. Virtually every mainstream popular musical genre to become a worldwide craze has is substantially rooted in Black culture. These roots have been variously obscured, forgotten and denied as genre after genre moved from sub-culture to popular culture to worldwide cultural phenomena through a persistent pattern of cultural theivery known in cultural studies as de-racialization (yes children, there is a name for this). Creative credit is co-opted, there is often a smoothing out of edges or a softening of tone as more palatable performers (often performing covers) are presented to the mainstream commercial audience and the material gain inherent in the growth of the market for this music does not return to the creators. There is an interesting and persistent irony also in that often the perceived Blackness (edginess, rawness, soulfulness, realness, coolness, hipness, rootsiness, sexiness, depth and authenticity can often be read as code words for Blackness) that gave the genre its initial cachet is often mourned by some small and vocal minority who usually become a sort of underground which fosters the continued development of the genre. This underground is seldom predominantly Black, but is generally more likely to offer some acknowledgment of a Black presence in the creation of the genre and tolerates a larger Black presence in its ranks than the mainstream does but is often also committed to minimizing the real role that racial dynamics play and embrace facile notions of universality and transcendence when uncomfortable discussions arise.

Check out R&B: Rhythm & Business, ed. Norman Kelley, Everything but the Burden, Greg Tate and Blues People by Leroi Jones (aka Amiri Baraka) for discussions of the the commercial and creative forces at work.

I am going back into retirement feel free to carry on. THIS SHOULD BE AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE!

yeah uh what she said again & again....
graemlins/bolt.gif

what s the subject again?

[Ron la Rock]

Originally posted by EL MAYIMBE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
I should preface these comments with the admission that I know very little about techno, past or present.

While the deracialization of music in America is plain to see (for us at least), I wonder if the circumstances regarding dance music and techno in particular are a little different. True, the end result is the same: black folks getting the short end of the stick both in recognition and loot.

My question is this: Was there ever really a purposeful effort by anyone to soften techno and make it "less black"? I ask this because I really can't see any techno DJs or real techno labels having this motivation.

Could it be the case that white techno DJs and white-owned techno labels simply took the ball and ran with it, without any hidden agenda to discredit black folks?

Could it be that the white audience was simply much more open to techno music than the black audience?

Could the "whiteness" of techno be simply a natural evolution dictated by the personal taste of the audience in question and not, like so many genres before, a concerted scheme to rob black folks of their just rewards? good questions and subjects brought up 138 but there is TOO MUCH to discuss and bring up that are at faults here on your curiosity and I'm too lazy to type up the clarifications of what your asking lol
but ina nutshell.
Black Techno DJs do get PAID and there are very good techno labels that are black owned, managed and runned. ;)
but i do agree that the white audience is waaaay more open for techno than a balck audience is, henceforth influencing more future producers who are white in this field.
And it is a vice versa thing since the pioneers of Techno were influenced not only by P Funk but also artists like Kraftwerk, Telex etc etc </font>[/QUOTE]actually not a good answer since hip hop was just as influenced by these same p-funk & kraftwerk alike yet one is considered black and one is considered white no easy answers but i will say MARKETING is a major culprit here

then please read Shalewa's post in wich we have been thru a ga-zillion times on this board
graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

hey any links 2 the actual artical in question??????

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Eins zwei drei vier funf sechs sieben acht

[Ron la Rock]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Eins zwei drei vier funf sechs sieben acht preach bro/ preach

[Ron la Rock]

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/deadhorse.gif

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/deadhorse.gif

[jimmymack-2000]

I remember in the 1992/1993/1994 era, when jungle hit really big in Toronto. Our city was swarming with promoters and DJs with East End (London) accents, many of whom were black. Five years later, you'd be hard-pressed to find one.

Talking with a few people of various races in that scene, I found that the black and Asian (one guy I knew was Bangladeshi) initial players left when it became "mainstream"--meaning more white people became involved. It was important to them, as people of color, to seperate themselves from a subculture that was becoming increasingly "melanin-challenged."

Is that the white kids' fault?

[D J 1 3 8]

Originally posted by Ron paizley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by EL MAYIMBE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
I should preface these comments with the admission that I know very little about techno, past or present.

While the deracialization of music in America is plain to see (for us at least), I wonder if the circumstances regarding dance music and techno in particular are a little different. True, the end result is the same: black folks getting the short end of the stick both in recognition and loot.

My question is this: Was there ever really a purposeful effort by anyone to soften techno and make it "less black"? I ask this because I really can't see any techno DJs or real techno labels having this motivation.

Could it be the case that white techno DJs and white-owned techno labels simply took the ball and ran with it, without any hidden agenda to discredit black folks?

Could it be that the white audience was simply much more open to techno music than the black audience?

Could the "whiteness" of techno be simply a natural evolution dictated by the personal taste of the audience in question and not, like so many genres before, a concerted scheme to rob black folks of their just rewards? good questions and subjects brought up 138 but there is TOO MUCH to discuss and bring up that are at faults here on your curiosity and I'm too lazy to type up the clarifications of what your asking lol
but ina nutshell.
Black Techno DJs do get PAID and there are very good techno labels that are black owned, managed and runned. ;)
but i do agree that the white audience is waaaay more open for techno than a balck audience is, henceforth influencing more future producers who are white in this field.
And it is a vice versa thing since the pioneers of Techno were influenced not only by P Funk but also artists like Kraftwerk, Telex etc etc </font>[/QUOTE]actually not a good answer since hip hop was just as influenced by these same p-funk & kraftwerk alike yet one is considered black and one is considered white no easy answers but i will say MARKETING is a major culprit here

then please read Shalewa's post in wich we have been thru a ga-zillion times on this board
graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
</font>[/QUOTE]As on point as Shalewa's schooling was regarding the history of the de-racialization of black music artforms, my point was that I wonder how it really applies in the case of techno. Does it apply at all? If so, how?

[big d]

is it possible that we're looking a bit too deeply into this? perhaps it is possible to attach whiteness to certain types of techno but then there is still a lot of techno which is truer to its roots, which still has the soul (p.s. i'm just using 'whiteness' because it relates to dave's comment).. funny thing is, when i used to hear dave clark spin out, i always associated him as playing a whiter style of techno (!!).. my point is, if dave is worried that techno has moved too far away from its black roots (and ive only skimmed the article) then it makes me wonder why he plays the way he does (although i havent heard him in a couple of years..) what i do remember (from his techno sets) is a coldly relentless onslaught littered with amusing but pointless and soulless dancemania style bootie tracks.. quite far removed from so much of the techno i would asscociate with the origins of the music.. in some way, we gots to chill, dave included.. good techno, like good house music, isnt something thats pushed down your throat, or that you get into as some kind of fad, or thats mass marketed etc - its something that through one route or another, you discover for yourself, before settling on the conclusion that this music is the shit (and the rest is history kind of thing).. so imo its not the fault of anyone in this industry if techno lacks a black audience.. the djs and producers of quality techno are still doing their thing, and so what if some of them exploit their popularity in Europe or whereever (where the audiences are predominantly white)? theyre still putting their soul into their productions and their craft, and theres a lot of new techno producers coming up producing music with a lot of soul.. Dave Clark, on the other hand, plays (techno) sets that I, as a fan of house and techno, find too monotonous, too hard, too soulless.. no-one can deny his mixing skills, but what i do see when ive heard him play is a crowd of predominantly white fools high on e who will probably have forgotten their brief flirt with (their idea of) 'techno' in a few years.. whereas when i hear, say, Stacey Pullen or whoever play, i see a much more mixed crowd getting down to a much more vibrant selection (and less reliant on drugs to feel the vibe - see maydays comment below!), which, to my mind, is more of a true continuation from the roots of the sound.... if anyone is going to help gain popularity in the black community, its not gonna be Dave Clark, imo! kids need to realise, somehow (how?), that most of the mainstream music thats pushed down their throats (rap, trance, r n b etc) is bullshit.. then they might start digging for themselves and like me and many people ive met (black and white) they will start discovering a whole 'nother world of music (whether its house, techno, hiphop, soul or whatever else - endless possibilities).. now that would be good for our scene!

Peace

David

[Ron la Rock]

once again the PERCEPTION of black music/white music

and how its exploited and the MARKETING of all music as 2 who shall buy into what
also Im not disregarding the mere tatse of different audiences as well wich i understand what your gettin at but when this history is in place its a domnino effect that happens as with techno take rock n roll,now hip hop & R&B,dance/house and we see the same pattern occure

[jimmymack-2000]

That durned Charley Pride had no bizness making country music, dagnabit!! That there's the white folks' heritage!

[jurren]

part of what contributed to this is:

techno emerged shortly after house, but both got introduced to a uk/eu audience at about the same time. at that point house had allready a firm base in both chicago and new york, whereas techno was still in it's infancy in detroit.

because (as always) british/european crowds pick these 'new' things up a lot faster then back in the us, these guys found an audience much bigger then in the us. as there was a demand, these guys got a chance to play there every week, but in the mean time back home 'no one' was feeding people with this new sound. hence real appreciation never grew in the us.

and like suenomartino allready mentioned: didn't this allready start 15 years ago? when was the first red planet release released? that to me is the start of the real 'whitening' of techno, that's what got bastardised into what we now know as trance...

jurren

[Red D]

Theory upon theory...

Fact: if you look at the crowd worldwide that has easy access to techno (and in fact all forms of modern music) I think you'll find that probably 90% of them will be non-black, isn't it safe to assume that because of that ratio more non-blacks will take up this music, listen to it, change it, twist it, etc?

Think about it.

RD

[dennis f]

Hmmmm....very interesting. This has been said about that scene for countless years. Try since about 94'! and the merry go 'round continues....

You see Tech was really divided into 2 categories...the Detroit kinda sound and the the German(Tresor/Berlin) sound. The English sound was considered a mix of the two, a sort of hybrid. So was the Belgian sound. I thought it was pretty moronic but when it came to my personal prefrences I began to understand why a lot of dj's began to say "Tech is beginning to sound too white!" At the time that I was making it Damon, I and a close circle of other producers were more inclined to the more soulful kind of jacked up swingin' tech. The old Plastic Man(Richie Hawtin) "space cowboy" and Transmat/UR(Jeff Mills, Mad Mike..etc. stuff) We all thought that the German stuff was way too clinical almost without feel you could say. They were amazing technical feats but still they didn't evoke the emotion that let's say a Kenny Larkin record could produce. This was very evident on the dancefloor. Hence the beginning of producers of ethnicity claiming that the european sound was too white. Pretty soon every one jumped on the bandwagon and voila! You even had "white" people saying the same thing. It wasn't a poke at the racial aspect but an ignorant portrayal and description of a certain style of tech that alot of us didn't like. I, I must admit was also guilty of this ignorance. Sorta like the way "white boys" say to each other "yo nigga' was up?" Strange...for sure but definitely not too kosher if your on the outside looking in. Hence Dave Clarke's view.....See they all know that overseas the majority of money being thrown into Tech parties and labels are by "white people" so it's not even looking at the gift horse in the mouth but kicking it!! Trust me this was not his objective. You see there's always been this quasi racial view of music in our industry. Since the start. If you know some old jazz cats they can tell you more than you'd care to know. It's just that most people aren't stupid enough to voice there opinion in a globally distributed industry mag without definitely clarifying their position. Not to say he was stupid but....ahhh...well... in all fairness to Dave...Most of these magazine interviewers key on a subject and let it run. I've been misquoted a zillion times...shit it even happenned to me in DJ magazine also. Something to the effect of me saying that I thought Beethoven wasn't shit though he must've been kind of funky for his time! I was like WTF? What a f'in oxymoron! I didn't say anything like that..but sometimes things get misconstrued...So don't really look into this any further than what it really is.....he's just saying he needs a little more soul in his music. Whether a "white" man or a "black" man or any man for that matter did it is irrelevant. A good record is a good record and he's just voicing his tastes. Poor use of words though....heheheh!! Probably still has dreams of the kiddie backpackers and their nitrous balloons chasin' his ass!!

just my 2 cents
dee

oh and by the way I don't know him, I think, can't remember... It's been a while o.k. ....but I ain't tryin' to defend no one, no ass smoochin' ....just voicing a producers view.

[MrLiam]

i like your view Dennis Ferrer but for me its the right line in music smile.gif
As u said there is good white & black music biggrinangel.gif

[ October 15, 2003, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: MrLiam ]