What is a "promoter"? A long rant about deep house entrepreneurs.

[Moksha]

The other thread got me thinking about how promoters approach their positions... before it deteriorated into a debate about a particular party, DHP beefs, etc.

It seems to me that the best production teams (and it takes a team to throw a good event) have members who wear a number of hats. How PROFESSIONALLY you perform these duties is what really makes or breaks an event.

(DISCLAIMER: This is not about any specific promoter, party, state, etc. Really.)

Event Producer - first and foremost, a party promoter is an event producer. The best event producers are super-organized, well-connected and have a strong vision with the ability to make it reality. When i was in college, I worked for a lighting design company that did projection work in night clubs and for corporate events. Sometimes, we would be contracted by amazing event companies (Event Quest was my fave). These people knew how to throw serious parties for major corporate clients. They hired great talent (interior designers, lighting specialists, flower arrangers, soundsystem people, etc.) and had the organizational, communication and leadership skills to make everybody work together toward a spectacular common vision. I was reminded of those college days this past weekend at a party thrown by P.Diddy at the MGM Grand at Foxwoods opening. The level of production was absolutely amazing. The set design, the décor, the dancer, the costuming... everything was stunning. Even back in my projection days, the motivation of the raggedy people Peter Gatien surrounded himself with far exceeded that of a lot of deep house promoters I've witnessed. Read event production magazines, study the details that make great parties great, get inspired, create a vision, then rally your trips to make it happen.

Marketing Exec and Publicist - So, this is what the other thread should have been about before it turned into a bunch of hurt feelings. It's a topic that I think deserves its own thread, as it's an area where I see promoters fail at being effective all the time. I'll just list a few thoughts for the sake of brevity. First, devise an effective marketing strategy. You need paying customers coming through your doors, and that ain't happening unless they know the party is happening and have been convinced that they HAVE TO be there. You are competing with other clubs, restaurants, time with the family, Sex & the City reruns and everything else somebody might be tempted to do on you Saturday night. SELL THEM. And no, your crappy flier and "bumps" on messageboards are not the secrets to success. In fact, unless you are going to print it up and hand it out to thousands of potential customers, your flier is almost the least important thing on your to-do list. If you are going to have street teams do fliers or advertise in local print media (both of which can be great strategies), make sure you are using a designer that truly understands how the psychology behind advertising design works. Also, a flier is an ad... learn how to write effective advertising copy before printing up thousands of them. Next, when you are in marketing, you and your team are the mouthpieces of your brand. Think before you speak. If I were promoting a party, there is no way I'd be on messageboards shooting shit and getting into arguments with potential customers; it's tacky and unprofessional. Likewise, I agree with Julian's point... don't post empty rooms. There's a reason liquor advertising doesn't include winos on the street; you are selling an aspirational experience, not a failed past reality. Finally, be effective in using the local press. That doesn't just mean adding editors and listing email addresses to your huge email blast (which you should also think about doing a better job at). I'm an editor, and I probably get about 500 emails a day from publicists selling me something they want covered. Unless I have a relationship with you, I'm not reading a mass mail. It's getting deleted. Learn to network with editors and convince them why it's essential they check out (and cover) your event. Of course, to do this, you're going to have to give them something unique and interesting enough to be worthy of column space. Advertising in my magazine costs over $15k for a full page... but a three-page feature (which people actually read) comes totally free if you know how to convince me you're got a story.

A&R - This seems to be the only part of the job that a lot of deep house promoters can be bothered to do with any enthusiasm. The whole "Bring DJ X, and They Will Come" mentality makes some producers think they can skimp on the other duties. In a lot of cases, that "DJ X" is the thirsty promoter himself. In my opinion (and I agree with Mark B here), the "talent" isn't really that important. God knows the DJ at that MGM event was terrible... not that anybody else seemed to care. But you know what, he was perfect for that crowd at that time in that space. And that is what I think so many promoters do wrong: they choose DJs based on everything but what should be paramount - the customers. Don't put on your boy, your idol, your fave or yourself UNLESS that is who is perfect for this party. If the majority of people are standing around, or leaving, instead of dancing, you've booked the wrong DJ. If you and the DJ are getting loads of requests for other genres, you've got the wrong DJ. If you and your 3 buddies are the only ones singing along to all the songs, you've got the wrong DJ. Promoting is a business, not a charity; in business, the customer is always right. Don't pick DJs based on their online mixes or networking skills - pick them the same way a record label A&R picks talent: This is the talent that is going to make my business the most successful.

Accountant - If you think accounting is boring, you shouldn't be promoting. You are a businessperson, and you're not gonna last long if you don't know how to create a budget in a spreadsheet. Your reputation is going to nosedive if you don't know how to keep your suppliers, DJs and space owners happy - and that means profitable. The more everybody gets paid, the harder they'll work for your success. You should have a deep understanding of every financial aspect of your enterprise, and all your efforts should be put toward making it viable, if not profitable. It amazes me how many people start up businesses without a solid business plan. It does wonders, focusing your efforts. And, remember, most enterprises lose money for months before becoming successful. You should have sufficient capital to create a great product while not necessarily covering your expenses at first. If you've been a great event producer, marketer, publicist and A&R, you'll be making cash before you know it.


If any promoters read my, er, little thread here, they're probably not the kind who are doing it for the money, but rather those who are promoting because they love of music. And that's totally cool. But, I would say... if you truly love the music, do it some justice and be a professional in all the aspects of promoting. Give the music the beautiful surroundings it deserves. Market the party properly so that you can share the music with as many people as possible (this is, after all, music made for dancing masses). Make sure the right DJ is presenting the music for your specific customers. And, create an enterprise that is financially stable and profitable for all involved, so that you can continue showing off the music you love. The whole "we're doing it for the love" excuse is bullshit. If promoters truly loved the music, they wouldn't be so lazy and unprofessional in the way they did their jobs. They would wear their many hats with pride and put all their passion behind performing each tast to perfection.





tl;dr? If you're truly PASSIONATE about throwing parties, aspire to approach all the tasks like the best professionals in those fields. Even with limited budgets and time, a little extra imagination, effort and professionalism can go a long way.

[DaveR]

Tight Post :thumbsup:

[DaveR]

... Likewise, I agree with Julian's point... don't post empty rooms. There's a reason liquor advertising doesn't include winos on the street; you are selling an aspirational experience, not a failed past reality ...
:beerchug::rofl::rofl5:

[BrazenMuse]

In fact, unless you are going to print it up and hand it out to thousands of potential customers, your flier is almost the least important thing on your to-do list. If you are going to have street teams do fliers or advertise in local print media (both of which can be great strategies), make sure you are using a designer that truly understands how the psychology behind advertising design works. Also, a flier is an ad... learn how to write effective advertising copy before printing up thousands of them. Next, when you are in marketing, you and your team are the mouthpieces of your brand. Think before you speak. If I were promoting a party, there is no way I'd be on messageboards shooting shit and getting into arguments with potential customers; it's tacky and unprofessional. Likewise, I agree with Julian's point... don't post empty rooms. There's a reason liquor advertising doesn't include winos on the street; you are selling an aspirational experience, not a failed past reality.

and can the choir say AMEN!!

:respent:


here's a reason liquor advertising doesn't include winos on the street; you are selling an aspirational experience, not a failed past reality....an aspirational experience not oblivion, addiction, anguish, loneliness, fear and agony. People want to get to the party that looks like it's happening, in the hope that it will happen for them!!!

[JimmyEllis]

Well said.

[S&S]

Just look at the way Axe Body Spray is marketed.....pure greatness

http://hocks.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/4526927.jpg

[MHenderson]

The real issue is people think like promoters when they need to think like event planners or project managers.

[doinitdoinitproductions]

First off let me say: I love this thread. I love the wisdom that is flowing.
I am by no means an expert at this topic. I have done some marketing of events, which some call promoting. I like to think of my events and what I do as marketing and programming.

In this topic, more than any others, These particular words stick in my mind.

'In fact, unless you are going to print it up and hand it out to thousands of potential customers, your flier is almost the least important thing on your to-do list. If you are going to have street teams do fliers or advertise in local print media (both of which can be great strategies), make sure you are using a designer that truly understands how the psychology behind advertising design works. Also, a flier is an ad... learn how to write effective advertising copy before printing up thousands of them. Next, when you are in marketing, you and your team are the mouthpieces of your brand. Think before you speak. If I were promoting a party, there is no way I'd be on message boards shooting shit and getting into arguments with potential customers; it's tacky and unprofessional.'

I love the comment about the fliers, not only because I am a firm believer in the fact that today, people will only keep said flier for 2.2, and it seems to be a 'has-been' way of promoting. It is my belief that because 'new media,' outlets, have become so prevalent that hand bills are a thing of the past.

I have promoted several varieties of events the last two-years that I have not had hand bills, and have reached capacities of 300 or more. Which in many cases was for a weekly event.

However, It is my strong belief that this occurred because of anything other than, good ole fashion communicating, and establishing relationships with key people in many different arenas.

This is what I believe is the major factor in promoting an event.

On a weekly basis here in Chicago I message the clubs reporters, from several publications- notifying them of my event, and letting them know who is playing for a one-month span. I establish relationships with these people, and let them know that if they ever need, or want to come out, to personally message, phone or text me ahead of time, so I can take care of them.

If they take me up, I always 'take care of them,' they don't pay for very much when they attend my event. After which, when I need them for a major event, they not only list said event, but they will also sometimes write about that event, giving me that free press I need to grab an extra couple people, who otherwise would not have known about my event.

Some other tools I use is to partner, or piggy back with other quality promoters of events that will benefit my event. This has proven effective, in the fact that say, when there event ends, they will send people over to my event. This has worked three times over. Again, take care of those people, they will always have your back.

I could go-on-and-on, but I guess the major point is, is take care of people and they will aid you along the way. I guess.

My two-cents, love the dialogue though, please more people chime in. I am learning so much...

[Phyllis Hyman Cherry]

Problem with some of them, is that they have no personalities.How are you gonna be a promoter with the personality of cardboard.A promoter should in itself be a personality,think the clubkids of the early nineties.Think of kenny,kenny and those children.There style of dress and attitude alone drawed people in,by providing a atmosphere that was sure to be pure fun.Alot of the so called promoters are not people-persons.You dont get a smile when you come to their events,they look at you like you are doing them a favor.Geez some people need customer-service 101.

[ProvocativeElement]

I cannot thank you enough for this - Novices and seasoned vets alike can benefit from what you've presented - for newcomers like Skin Tight, this is absolutely invaluable and further, anyone too proud to analyze their technique against what you've presented is a fool.

I will most definitely be printing this and taking it home for the team and I to study as we prepare to get back up on the horse for our next event

Thank you again

[TAC]

Yea and wash your ASS!!!!

Don't be all stinkie, then come up to me and expect me to come hang with your funky ass after you done hosed me down with some bad breath.

[Moksha]

I cannot thank you enough for this - Novices and seasoned vets alike can benefit from what you've presented - for newcomers like Skin Tight, this is absolutely invaluable and further, anyone too proud to analyze their technique against what you've presented is a fool.

I will most definitely be printing this and taking it home for the team and I to study as we prepare to get back up on the horse for our next event

Thank you again

Really, it's just a starting point. I'd love to hear from more people (hopefully working professionally within these fields) about what know-how we can bring from the boardroom to the ballroom.

[ProvocativeElement]

yes, it's just a starting point, but in saying that, IT IS A STARTING POINT!

can you recommend some production magazines? everyone knows 'knowledge is power' and I'm trying to up my knowledge

[Moksha]

Yea and wash your ASS!!!!

Don't be all stinkie, then come up to me and expect me to come hang with your funky ass after you done hosed me down with some bad breath.

I'm often amazed at how poorly some promoters present themselves at their own events. Or, a lot seem super-stressed... which doesn't really make customers feel like the event is welcoming and well organized. Then there are those promoters who are only personable to those they know, or those with "clout." Some smiles and charisma can go a long way to making paying customers come back and recommend the event to friends.

One promoter who I always thought did a great job of welcoming guests was Lorie from Bang the Party. I remember many a night walking up those stairs at Frank's and receiving the warmest welcomes and biggest smile... a welcome releif after the sometimes rude bouncers down below. Lorie (and the coat check guys) always set a really nice tone for customers when they arrived, which I'm convinced translated into a better vibe throughout the night.

David's Loft parties are another one where the staff really makes you feel good about being there.

[mhd]

aspire - nice word, describes someone on the path to excellence, like i said before, not every "promoter" has an mba, hell, i was throwing parties for hundreds of people as a teenager in high school...

[The Buddy Love Show]

Moksha

GREAT THREAD

I'm interested in reading the opinions of others before chiming in w more

Peace

[Moksha]

yes, it's just a starting point, but in saying that, IT IS A STARTING POINT!

can you recommend some production magazines? everyone knows 'knowledge is power' and I'm trying to up my knowledge

There are a few trade publications for event production, plus more specialized ones about lighting, dressing (interiors), etc. Also, mags about weddings, conferences, etc. can provide lots of useful inspiration.

Here are some starting points:

http://specialevents.com/
http://www.event-solutions.com/
http://www.eventmarketer.com/
http://www.eventmagazine.co.uk/features/index.cfm
http://www.mcmag.com/

[Pang]

Just look at the way Axe Body Spray is marketed.....pure greatness

http://hocks.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/4526927.jpg

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/conf40.gif

[The Buddy Love Show]

There are a few trade publications for event production, plus more specialized ones about lighting, dressing (interiors), etc. Also, mags about weddings, conferences, etc. can provide lots of useful inspiration.

Here are some starting points:

http://specialevents.com/
http://www.event-solutions.com/
http://www.eventmarketer.com/
http://www.eventmagazine.co.uk/features/index.cfm
http://www.mcmag.com/

like villian #1 said to Hans Gruber "he's giving it all away"

[TAC]

Then there are those promoters who are only personable to those they know, or those with "clout." Some smiles and charisma can go a long way to making paying customers come back and recommend the event to friends.

See now this is a great point. Funny, but I try to be unassuming when I go out, i.e., disappear in a room and just enjoy myself. However, there are people/promotors that I have met who I simply got such a bad vibe from that I have no reason nor desire to attend their functions.

[mhd]

See now this is a great point. Funny, but I try to be unassuming when I go out, i.e., disappear in a room and just enjoy myself. However, there are people/promotors that I have met who I simply got such a bad vibe from that I have no reason nor desire to attend their functions.

there is no underestimating the personal touch, which is why its so baffling that "promoters" are such assholes on here

[The Buddy Love Show]

there is no underestimating the personal touch, which is why its so baffling that "promoters" are such assholes on here

ultimately people respect straight talk and unambiguity

[mhd]

ultimately people respect straight talk and unambiguity

true, when that happens, people also appreciate positive encouragement

[The Buddy Love Show]

true, when that happens, people also appreciate positive encouragement

I agree

but then again


I would have thought that since this thread was up for so long the folks who got twisted about DJ138s thread would have spoken up

Specifically:

Duron Tarik
Basecore Boy
Mizzmeme
Lady Acacia
and a besotted Sean G

[mhd]

I agree

but then again


I would have thought that since this thread was up for so long the folks who got twisted about DJ138s thread would have spoken up

Specifically:

Duron Tarik
Basecore Boy
Mizzmeme
Lady Acacia
and a besotted Sean G

i do think there is a sincere effort to share ideas for folks to improve their events, no question about it, but, dipp's point is also true, that the good knowledge can get lost in the clowning and disdain shown to folks

[Moksha]

See now this is a great point. Funny, but I try to be unassuming when I go out, i.e., disappear in a room and just enjoy myself. However, there are people/promotors that I have met who I simply got such a bad vibe from that I have no reason nor desire to attend their functions.

And if you cannot be a good "face" for your party, hire a host that can be and stay home.

[The Buddy Love Show]

i do think there is a sincere effort to share ideas for folks to improve their events, no question about it, but, dipp's point is also true, that the good knowledge can get lost in the clowning and disdain shown to folks

very true


pardon my observation:

unfortunately, in post #11, Duron began his thread interaction with clowning and disdain of his own: "GUT SHOT"

there was no attempt at higher level discussion - just a play for the hearts and minds of the mob (myself included )

Today,when higher discussion takes place, the crickets arrive and the mob leaves


Moksha has listed some great, intelligent, well thought out points as it relates to BUSINESS. And the same voices (those that do well already) are the only ones responding

not good

[Jamie 3:26]

I dig this...this is what I am talkin about....the wild thing is,so much game has been dropped here over the years...many just chose to ingore it,instead of accepting and embracing it.

This is nothing new...but I'm all for folks learning some game.It helps everyone out in the long run.

[Pang]

However, It is my strong belief that this occurred because of anything other than, good ole fashion communicating, and establishing relationships with key people in many different arenas.

This is what I believe is the major factor in promoting an event.

On a weekly basis here in Chicago I message the clubs reporters, from several publications- notifying them of my event, and letting them know who is playing for a one-month span. I establish relationships with these people, and let them know that if they ever need, or want to come out, to personally message, phone or text me ahead of time, so I can take care of them.

If they take me up, I always 'take care of them,' they don't pay for very much when they attend my event. After which, when I need them for a major event, they not only list said event, but they will also sometimes write about that event, giving me that free press I need to grab an extra couple people, who otherwise would not have known about my event.

Some other tools I use is to partner, or piggy back with other quality promoters of events that will benefit my event. This has proven effective, in the fact that say, when there event ends, they will send people over to my event. This has worked three times over. Again, take care of those people, they will always have your back.

I could go-on-and-on, but I guess the major point is, is take care of people and they will aid you along the way. I guess.

My two-cents, love the dialogue though, please more people chime in. I am learning so much...


This was good. Props!

[mhd]

very true


pardon my observation:

unfortunately, in post #11, Duron began his thread interaction with clowning and disdain of his own: "GUT SHOT"

there was no attempt at higher level discussion - just a play for the hearts and minds of the mob (myself included )

Today,when higher discussion takes place, the crickets arrive and the mob leaves


Moksha has listed some great, intelligent, well thought out points as it relates to BUSINESS. And the same voices (those that do well already) are the only ones responding

not good

exactly, there is a chilling effect for folks who prolly need not only the info but the exchange of ideas the most

[Moksha]

Let's stay on topic guys, and make this about the business... not a another meta-thread about DHP itslef, where people get their feelings hurt.

Mark B... I'd love to hear you build about how you approach the different aspects of the job I listed (or add some more "jobs" to the list).

Specifically, under the "Accountant" subject, I'd love to hear you talk about sponsorship structures, how to determine door pricing, employee compensation, etc.

[ProvocativeElement]

Let's stay on topic guys, and make this about the business... not a another meta-thread about DHP itslef, where people get their feelings hurt.

Mark B... I'd love to hear you build about how you approach the different aspects of the job I listed (or add some more "jobs" to the list).

Specifically, under the "Accountant" subject, I'd love to hear you talk about sponsorship structures, how to determine door pricing, employee compensation, etc.

c'mon ya'll, BRING IT!!!!

humble novices like myself are eager for light and direction . . .

[The Buddy Love Show]

Let's stay on topic guys, and make this about the business... not a another meta-thread about DHP itslef, where people get their feelings hurt.

Mark B... I'd love to hear you build about how you approach the different aspects of the job I listed (or add some more "jobs" to the list).

Specifically, under the "Accountant" subject, I'd love to hear you talk about sponsorship structures, how to determine door pricing, employee compensation, etc.

How do I approach the different aspects?:

I acknowledge that my intellect is low and my penis is tiny - cuz it isnt about me.

On the accountant side:

Other peoples money is a nice place to start. There are PLENTY of companies who want to market their goods and services to the folk I connect with. Because we (that word) consistently bring out large crowds ,liquor companies, car companies, and others sponsor our bar and door. Consequently, we can charge whatever we need to at the door - and pay our staff quite easily.

We compensate most of our subs at a flat rate or thru a comp/paid list. Comps are preferable for hungry up and comers while Flats get paid to those who bring bottles/model crowds

I'll write more later

[Sal Paradise]

wow great focused post Moksha. Telling it straight. Good comments all around by every one.

[The Buddy Love Show]

btw, while this comment might seem flip - its real:

"ultimately people respect straight talk and unambiguity"

The willingness to tell someone to kiss your ass, to their face and not behind their back, gets mad props in this business. (imo)

if you can do a deal, do it. if you can't, say so. if you fuck up, admit it. if they fuck up, say so.

and don't quit your day job - until you're rich

[DaveR]

btw, while this comment might seem flip - its real:

"ultimately people respect straight talk and unambiguity"

The willingness to tell someone to kiss your ass, to their face and not behind their back, gets mad props in this business. (imo)

if you can do a deal, do it. if you can't, say so. if you fuck up, admit it. if they fuck up, say so.

and don't quit your day job - until you're rich
No doubt :thumbsup:

[ProvocativeElement]

How do I approach the different aspects?:

We compensate most of our subs at a flat rate or thru a comp/paid list. Comps are preferable for hungry up and comers while Flats get paid to those who bring bottles/model crowds

I'll write more later

wtf?
ummm.... can a sista get some cliff notes up in dis piece? the only thing I understood is 'other peoples money' part

so as not to bog down the rest of the thread, any one a you's who'd like to pm me wit a break down(off to da side, ya know, on the low . . .)

my box is clean and waiting . . .

you aint gotta drag me outta the cave, but i got no problem admitting ignorance/atrophy

[S&S]

One good thing is to have a good and dedicated TEAM. get rid of the dead weight in required. And NEVER make it personal, Its business. "Friends" shouldnt mind paying to get into ur event as long as you give them a quality package.

[The Buddy Love Show]

wtf?
ummm.... can a sista get some cliff notes up in dis piece? the only thing I understood is 'other peoples money' part

so as not to bog down the rest of the thread, any one a you's who'd like to pm me wit a break down(off to da side, ya know, on the low . . .)

my box is clean and waiting . . .

you aint gotta drag me outta the cave, but i got no problem admitting ignorance/atrophy

sorry for speaking jive (lol)

We pay out sub promoters to bring more folks to our events. We pay them a flat fee if they can bring a crowd that is highly desirable (models, sports stars, rappers) or by notinging every complimentary or paid admission they generate during the nite and pay them a percentage of admission.

[ProvocativeElement]

sorry for speaking jive (lol)

We pay out sub promoters to bring more folks to our events. We pay them a flat fee if they can bring a crowd that is highly desirable (models, sports stars, rappers) or by notinging every complimentary or paid admission they generate during the nite and pay them a percentage of admission.

gotcha . . . thnx

[The Buddy Love Show]

No doubt :thumbsup:

one of the first things I ever said to you (offline) was: "thanks for not sending me coasters"

and i meant it too

damn i'm real fucked up

lol

[DUBFLY]

btw, while this comment might seem flip - its real:


[quote]

If you can do a deal, do it. if you can't, say so. if you fuck up, admit it. if they fuck up, say so. and don't quit your day job - until you're rich !!



I recommend this be the official DHP promoters pledge Yo Mark I got half on the tee shirts lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:hail::hail::hail:

[The Buddy Love Show]

[quote=Palatine William Wilson;738352]btw, while this comment might seem flip - its real:




I recommend this be the official DHP promoters pledge Yo Mark I got half on the tee shirts lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:hail::hail::hail:


MO MONEY!!!!!!!!

[DaveR]

one of the first things I ever said to you (offline) was: "thanks for not sending me coasters"

and i meant it too

damn i'm real fucked up

lol
:rofl5:

[DeesKo]

I'm kinda busy but one thing I wanted to add to this thread is this:

The single biggest threat to your success is yourself.

Period.


Lemme fill you in on a little story.

We have a regular customer who comes into our store almost daily. He plays lottery, doesn't buy much else from the store, but he likes to hang out & chat. His other habit is that he likes to walk around the store & look for things that are expired or past their freshness date.

Whenever he would find something, he didn't care who else was in the store, he didn't care how many customers were there, he didn't care who was listening, he would talk at the top of his lungs and exclaim he'd found yet another thing expired on the shelf. I mean, if he found something.... EVERYBODY in the store knew about it. That shit was MAD embarrassing.

We'd just bought this store, it was a completely new venture for me, completely new environment, completely new industry, completely new everything..... and I was trying my ASS off. I was here 18-19 hrs a day just trying to keep up. Doing everything I could to NOT come crashing down and fail, and here this guy was clowning us and making us look bad in front of customers. At first it REALLY pissed me off.

It REAAAAAALLLLLLLY pissed Sichan off.

Then it hit me.... rather than sit there and get pissy with him or ban him from the store (and ultimately cost us $20-$50 a day in lottery sales).... use that anger & embarrassment as motivation to just do something simple.... not have shit expire.

Him being a loudmouth asshole was my motivation to put a new process in place to make sure our bread was pulled off the shelf when it expired. Not only did it work in keeping his mouth shut, and save me that embarrassment, but it also saved me the unknown embarrassment of every other person that saw the expired dates and DIDN'T say anything to me.

Who knows how many other people saw those dates before him and just took a mental note and went on their way... nahmean?

In the long run, I was actually happy he'd been such an ass because it made me step up my game.

Once he stopped finding stuff expired on the shelves, he would browse through the store, find nothing expired and exclaim just as loudly as before... to everyone that could hear that he hadn't found a single item past date on our shelves.


Funny side note to this story:

Apparently the store had built up a bit of a rep prior to us buying it for having expired bread, milk, and various other things... the previous owners would let it sit until past date... then take them and use them in the deli. It was a known thing. It had been a bit of a running joke outside of the store.

Him announcing these things and embarrassing me seemed like a dick move, but it worked, and honestly, it worked better than if he'd just quietly mentioned it because it was of the utmost importance to get him to stop announcing such negative stuff to our customers.

Him announcing that there wasn't anything expired was almost like a public cryer letting people know things were getting better in the store.

Here it is 9 months after we bought the store, we're in the middle of a recession and our overall sales are only off about 5% from the last 2 years average and our deli sales are up 160% from the previous 2 years.

Yes, I do credit him in some ways for helping instigate some of that improvement. He might have delivered it like an asshole but it didn't make the message untrue.



If I'd ignored the message, I would have been my own single biggest threat to my business succeeding and trust, things like this happen EVERY SINGLE DAY when you're in business. Every single day there's SOMETHING that happens that you could learn from, regardless of how it's delivered.

Ignoring that is being your single biggest threat to success.


Peace

[DaveR]

...

Then it hit me.... rather than sit there and get pissy with him or ban him from the store (and ultimately cost us $20-$50 a day in lottery sales).... use that anger & embarrassment as motivation to just do something simple.... not have shit expire.

...

If I'd ignored the message, I would have been my own single biggest threat to my business succeeding and trust, things like this happen EVERY SINGLE DAY when you're in business. Every single day there's SOMETHING that happens that you could learn from, regardless of how it's delivered.

Ignoring that is being your single biggest threat to success.


Peace
:hail::rofl:

[The Buddy Love Show]

I'm kinda busy but one thing I wanted to add to this thread is this:

The single biggest threat to your success is yourself.

......

GREAT POST

[DJ Celeste Alexander]

Very intresting thread. big ups for the honesty and candor. I will continue to read and learn.:)

[Stef]

In the long run, I was actually happy he'd been such an ass because it made me step up my game.

Great story. Props to Rob, Mark, and everyone else with thoughtful posts in here - especially Moksha! Great thread.

[mhd]

I'm kinda busy but one thing I wanted to add to this thread is this:

The single biggest threat to your success is yourself.

Period.


Lemme fill you in on a little story.

We have a regular customer who comes into our store almost daily. He plays lottery, doesn't buy much else from the store, but he likes to hang out & chat. His other habit is that he likes to walk around the store & look for things that are expired or past their freshness date.

Whenever he would find something, he didn't care who else was in the store, he didn't care how many customers were there, he didn't care who was listening, he would talk at the top of his lungs and exclaim he'd found yet another thing expired on the shelf. I mean, if he found something.... EVERYBODY in the store knew about it. That shit was MAD embarrassing.

We'd just bought this store, it was a completely new venture for me, completely new environment, completely new industry, completely new everything..... and I was trying my ASS off. I was here 18-19 hrs a day just trying to keep up. Doing everything I could to NOT come crashing down and fail, and here this guy was clowning us and making us look bad in front of customers. At first it REALLY pissed me off.

It REAAAAAALLLLLLLY pissed Sichan off.

Then it hit me.... rather than sit there and get pissy with him or ban him from the store (and ultimately cost us $20-$50 a day in lottery sales).... use that anger & embarrassment as motivation to just do something simple.... not have shit expire.

Him being a loudmouth asshole was my motivation to put a new process in place to make sure our bread was pulled off the shelf when it expired. Not only did it work in keeping his mouth shut, and save me that embarrassment, but it also saved me the unknown embarrassment of every other person that saw the expired dates and DIDN'T say anything to me.

Who knows how many other people saw those dates before him and just took a mental note and went on their way... nahmean?

In the long run, I was actually happy he'd been such an ass because it made me step up my game.

Once he stopped finding stuff expired on the shelves, he would browse through the store, find nothing expired and exclaim just as loudly as before... to everyone that could hear that he hadn't found a single item past date on our shelves.


Funny side note to this story:

Apparently the store had built up a bit of a rep prior to us buying it for having expired bread, milk, and various other things... the previous owners would let it sit until past date... then take them and use them in the deli. It was a known thing. It had been a bit of a running joke outside of the store.

Him announcing these things and embarrassing me seemed like a dick move, but it worked, and honestly, it worked better than if he'd just quietly mentioned it because it was of the utmost importance to get him to stop announcing such negative stuff to our customers.

Him announcing that there wasn't anything expired was almost like a public cryer letting people know things were getting better in the store.

Here it is 9 months after we bought the store, we're in the middle of a recession and our overall sales are only off about 5% from the last 2 years average and our deli sales are up 160% from the previous 2 years.

Yes, I do credit him in some ways for helping instigate some of that improvement. He might have delivered it like an asshole but it didn't make the message untrue.



If I'd ignored the message, I would have been my own single biggest threat to my business succeeding and trust, things like this happen EVERY SINGLE DAY when you're in business. Every single day there's SOMETHING that happens that you could learn from, regardless of how it's delivered.

Ignoring that is being your single biggest threat to success.


Peace

much respect

[BrazenMuse]

If I'd ignored the message, I would have been my own single biggest threat to my business succeeding and trust, things like this happen EVERY SINGLE DAY when you're in business. Every single day there's SOMETHING that happens that you could learn from, regardless of how it's delivered.

Ignoring that is being your single biggest threat to success.

people always seem to ignore this...dunno why...

[DaveR]

DeesKo should have pointed out how many Twinkies and Big Wheels were not expired ... then called the dude a hater!

[BrazenMuse]

DeesKo should have pointed out how many Twinkies and Big Wheels were not expired ... then called the dude a hater!

yeah!! yeah...! what's the matter w that deesko...must be plannin' to have this business still up and runnin' in 10 years! bah humbug!

[DeesKo]

Let's not get to sarcastic and throw the thread into that realm.... :)

Another point I would like to make....

I have 500 different items in my store. When I advertise, I do not advertise one item, I don't even advertise one group of items (wine or beer or sodas or groceries or whatever). I try to promote as many different items as I can in a manner that makes sense for that specific ad and it has to be extremely thought out....

The ad we put in the Alexandria Visitors Guide has a professionally done picture of a good bottle of wine, a good bottle of beer, some Bremner crackers and a bunch of fresh fruits & vegetables.

The reasoning behind this was that this magazine is going in all of the local hotels and in newspaper bins on almost every corner of Old Town. The majority of people in a hotel do not have a stove and are eating out, but they do take fresh fruits, crackers & cookies for snacks or breakfast, and they most definitely buy a 6-pack or a bottle of wine to avoid the mini-bar or room service fees.

This ad not only let them know we sold those things, but it also still managed to lend credence to the slightly more "upscale" aspect by using a $70 bottle of Brunello & a large bottle of Chimay Blue. This way, someone looking to spend real money see something they would be comfortable with and the people looking for a 24oz Bud Light in a can still know we sell beer. The people looking for snacks know we sell snacks and the healthy eaters know we have fresh fruit & vegetables in the store.

All this is to say when putting together your press for a party, do not have a 1-dimensional party just advertise that one thing. Don't put the DJ's name, the date, the time and the cover. You have to develop a real PARTY and then promote those things that are going to make it a PAR-TAY, not just a DJ's name. If you can't put together a successful party without ever mentioning the DJ's name, you should hire someone that can do that and relegate yourself to booking DJ's that fit with their idea or design for each party.


(and in all honesty, unless it's a cookout type function, avoid mentioning food on your flier. Most people don't go to the club to chow down on some pork fried rice. JMO)

Peace

[shasha]

Thanks for sharing.......noted!

[Moksha]

and in all honesty, unless it's a cookout type function, avoid mentioning food on your flier. Most people don't go to the club to chow down on some pork fried rice. JMO


unless ray is cookin', of course

[BrazenMuse]

Let's not get to sarcastic and throw the thread into that realm.... :)

Another point I would like to make....

I have 500 different items in my store. When I advertise, I do not advertise one item, I don't even advertise one group of items (wine or beer or sodas or groceries or whatever). I try to promote as many different items as I can in a manner that makes sense for that specific ad and it has to be extremely thought out....

The ad we put in the Alexandria Visitors Guide has a professionally done picture of a good bottle of wine, a good bottle of beer, some Bremner crackers and a bunch of fresh fruits & vegetables.

The reasoning behind this was that this magazine is going in all of the local hotels and in newspaper bins on almost every corner of Old Town. The majority of people in a hotel do not have a stove and are eating out, but they do take fresh fruits, crackers & cookies for snacks or breakfast, and they most definitely buy a 6-pack or a bottle of wine to avoid the mini-bar or room service fees.

This ad not only let them know we sold those things, but it also still managed to lend credence to the slightly more "upscale" aspect by using a $70 bottle of Brunello & a large bottle of Chimay Blue. This way, someone looking to spend real money see something they would be comfortable with and the people looking for a 24oz Bud Light in a can still know we sell beer. The people looking for snacks know we sell snacks and the healthy eaters know we have fresh fruit & vegetables in the store.

All this is to say when putting together your press for a party, do not have a 1-dimensional party just advertise that one thing. Don't put the DJ's name, the date, the time and the cover. You have to develop a real PARTY and then promote those things that are going to make it a PAR-TAY, not just a DJ's name. If you can't put together a successful party without ever mentioning the DJ's name, you should hire someone that can do that and relegate yourself to booking DJ's that fit with their idea or design for each party.


(and in all honesty, unless it's a cookout type function, avoid mentioning food on your flier. Most people don't go to the club to chow down on some pork fried rice. JMO)

Peace

Another excellent example of forethought and planning!!! Those ads are your public face...they speak for you 24/7/365...and you've done yourself proud!!

...having food at a party is a bonus...for some people. I remember when all the places I used to go to had free fruit for the patrons...a fabulous old custom...don't see it as much anymore
...it can't be the major draw, obviously...developing a concept is a tried and true method for having a long-running party...the ones who have been at it for a while know this already...

[DeesKo]

...having food at a party is a bonus...

Oh, I agree. I've done parties and had fruit trays and snacks and different things.... especially for holidays etc. The point I was trying to make is that it's exactly that..... a bonus. Making a buffet line a selling point on your nightclub flier just (IMHO) sends a funny message to the masses of people who go out clubbing and might be looking at your flier. It just seems, I don't know the word for it... but it just seems less glamorous and lets be real, outside of the deep house purists, glamor is a MAJOR part of nightlife. You can either try to draw outside folks in by making the party look glam, or you can make sure the same 100 people know you're serving food.

50 of which will want to be on the guestlist.

5 of which will be carrying someone's CD wallet or crates.

7 of which will be DESTROYING your buffet line with 4, 5 & 6 servings and asking for a "to go" plate.

:)

My overall point/idea is that the hardcore house head scene is small. Word gets around. People can be individually targeted via seperate methods and they'll know about the buffet without it being on a flyer and then you don't have all these other people looking at the flyer subconsciously thinking to themselves

"food? ... its a club, tell me about the women and the liquor, I ate dinner already"





developing a concept is a tried and true method for having a long-running party...the ones who have been at it for a while know this already...

I would go a step further and say the implementation of that concept is the single most important factor in throwing successful parties, because 99% of promoters probaby DO in some way, shape or form have a concept....



And when all else fails, like I've said before, link up with your local drug dealer and have them provide real seed money to do something PROPER. It worked for hip-hop. :)

[KragShot]

This thread makes so much sense.

I've just finished putting on a media event that has been running for 11 years now. I took over management of the event last year. For this year's event, I brought on a marketing consultant and she has turned things totally around.

Most fan-based media conventions are ran like most house parties. All they use are pluggers, some web drops, and word of mouth. And they wonder why their attendance never goes up per year than more than one or two hundred.

This year, we ran ads on B96, Q-101, CTA, The Reader, Chicago Free Press, and many other media outlets. Our attendance blew up this year and it's only going to get bigger.

You want to throw a successful regular party? Get yourself some marketing partners and stop depending on pluggers and web drops alone.

I do a weekly radio show that features house music.

How many promoters contact me to help promote their parties?

0

I used to do a weekly "party report," I stopped when I couldn't get any help or support from the very people who were throwing these parties. And for the record, I wasn't asking for free admission or anything like that. All that I asked was that they just send me info, instead of me having to go looking for it.

That was too much apparently.

I'm done here.

I just finished up promoting a party with a gate of more than 5000 people, and a weekend event with a paid attendance of more than 15,000.

My stock is going up because I understood the point of this post.

Ignore this at your peril.

B. Turner

[BrazenMuse]

This thread makes so much sense.

I've just finished putting on a media event that has been running for 11 years now. I took over management of the event last year. For this year's event, I brought on a marketing consultant and she has turned things totally around.

Most fan-based media conventions are ran like most house parties. All they use are pluggers, some web drops, and word of mouth. And they wonder why their attendance never goes up per year than more than one or two hundred.

This year, we ran ads on B96, Q-101, CTA, The Reader, Chicago Free Press, and many other media outlets. Our attendance blew up this year and it's only going to get bigger.

You want to throw a successful regular party? Get yourself some marketing partners and stop depending on pluggers and web drops alone.

I do a weekly radio show that features house music.

How many promoters contact me to help promote their parties?

0

I used to do a weekly "party report," I stopped when I couldn't get any help or support from the very people who were throwing these parties. And for the record, I wasn't asking for free admission or anything like that. All that I asked was that they just send me info, instead of me having to go looking for it.

That was too much apparently.

I'm done here.

I just finished up promoting a party with a gate of more than 5000 people, and a weekend event with a paid attendance of more than 15,000.

My stock is going up because I understood the point of this post.

Ignore this at your peril.

B. Turner



That is sooooo SCANDALOUS!! Can't be bothered to get info to you? Wow. Amazing.

:jpshakehead:

[Moksha]

Making a buffet line a selling point on your nightclub flier just (IMHO) sends a funny message to the masses of people who go out clubbing and might be looking at your flier. It just seems, I don't know the word for it... but it just seems less glamorous and lets be real, outside of the deep house purists, glamor is a MAJOR part of nightlife.

:thumbsup:

[Moksha]

I used to do a weekly "party report," I stopped when I couldn't get any help or support from the very people who were throwing these parties. And for the record, I wasn't asking for free admission or anything like that. All that I asked was that they just send me info, instead of me having to go looking for it.

That was too much apparently.


Hahaha! Unbelievable, ain't it?

My first magazine job out of college was editing the listings section in the back of Mixer. It was like pulling teeth getting promoters to update their info! It was just impossible to get them to email me their confirmed details once a month.

I also edited the nightlife section for a magazine called TNT in London, which had extensive listings. I would get ATTITUDE from promoters when I would call them to tell them their info was wrong/out-of-date and I needed it updated to keep it in.

I mean, it's FREE advertising....

Speaking of which, their is no excuse for a promoter to not try to get into EVERY listings magazine in the region they are in. Shit... tell the New Yorker what you're doing. Maybe one day they'll slip in a little DJ event. Tell The L Magazine. Obviously tell the Voice, Clubplanet, Time Out, etc. It's just inexcusable laziness and lack of organization and professionalism that would keep a nightlife entrepreneur from explointing such outlets.

[TAD]

That is sooooo SCANDALOUS!! Can't be bothered to get info to you? Wow. Amazing.

:jpshakehead:

he's not alone.

[D J 1 3 8]

this is a great thread. Nice work Orion. :hail:

[Moksha]

this is a great thread. Nice work Orion. :hail:

Thanks. I should, in the name of full disclosure, admit that i was a shitty, lazy promoter who didn't follow any of the advice I'm now doling out. Looking back, I really wish I had the knowledge back then that I have today.

[vic]

Thanks. I should, in the name of full disclosure, admit that i was a shitty, lazy promoter who didn't follow any of the advice I'm now doling out. Looking back, I really wish I had the knowledge back then that I have today.

And there in lies part of the problem; some of us simply have no clue. It gets even more complicated when you dont quite know what you are trying to sell.

[The Buddy Love Show]

It gets even more complicated when you dont quite know what you are trying to sell.

Sheeeeeeeeeit

I KNEW what I wanted on DAY # 1
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