too bad househeads don't have a hiphop mentality [Archive]

SHEIK YERBOUTI

07-29-2003, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by IIBS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Donger:
Too bad many funk/soul artists that got sampled don't have that mentality. Then they would rape the rappers that have been raping them. That's a whole other debatable topic right there, too. It's not a secret that alot of samples will revitalize an obscure soul/jazz artist's career (Did you have any idea who David Axelrod or the Heath Brothers were 10 years ago?). Not to mention alot of these artists actually have wisened up to sample laws and are getting paid off of them. [/QUOTE]VERY true. The reissue market wouldn't exist if not for sampling and the ensuing interest in the old music. That and the record companies finally realized their funk/soul/disco back catalogs were worth something.

A little too late in Universal's case...

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by The Donger:
Too bad many funk/soul artists that got sampled don't have that mentality. Then they would rape the rappers that have been raping them. its easy to make accusations..please name a few people who got raped by rap artists...then talk to peeps like lil richard who got raped by white artists

seems to me that rap has helped more than a few artists get paid

but of course you have chosen to focus on the negative..and in this case an issue that cuts across musical boundaries - as could be attested to by the isleys v. m bolton or huey lewis v. ray parker jr.

[ July 29, 2003, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: St Magus the Reviled ]

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by toomuchtv:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Donger:
Too bad many funk/soul artists that got sampled don't have that mentality. Then they would rape the rappers that have been raping them. That's a whole other debatable topic right there, too. It's not a secret that alot of samples will revitalize an obscure soul/jazz artist's career (Did you have any idea who David Axelrod or the Heath Brothers were 10 years ago?). Not to mention alot of these artists actually have wisened up to sample laws and are getting paid off of them. [/QUOTE]VERY true. The reissue market wouldn't exist if not for sampling and the ensuing interest in the old music. That and the record companies finally realized their funk/soul/disco back catalogs were worth something.

A little too late in Universal's case... [/QUOTE]its not just funk/ soul hiphop samples EVERYTHING..that is its genius

Leslie

07-29-2003, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by einnod23:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
puffy is talking about buying the KNICKS!!! He's gotta have partners, though. I wonder who are they gonna be? And the NBA owners have to approve of it. Peace. [/QUOTE]Dude that is so not an issue...come on do you think he doesn't have people BANGING on his door wanting to talk turkey about this?

Pete Nice

07-29-2003, 01:31 PM

okay, so i'm curious as to what people think would help house music in a positive way and i just don't mean profit wise? i've seen some dj's out here in l.a. try and start up after school type programs to get kids involved at an early age learning how dj and such. i'm talking not just making house music a viable commodity(sp), but something more like a culture than a product. thoughts....

SHEIK YERBOUTI

07-29-2003, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by toomuchtv:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Donger:
Too bad many funk/soul artists that got sampled don't have that mentality. Then they would rape the rappers that have been raping them. That's a whole other debatable topic right there, too. It's not a secret that alot of samples will revitalize an obscure soul/jazz artist's career (Did you have any idea who David Axelrod or the Heath Brothers were 10 years ago?). Not to mention alot of these artists actually have wisened up to sample laws and are getting paid off of them. [/QUOTE]VERY true. The reissue market wouldn't exist if not for sampling and the ensuing interest in the old music. That and the record companies finally realized their funk/soul/disco back catalogs were worth something.

A little too late in Universal's case... [/QUOTE]its not just funk/ soul hiphop samples EVERYTHING..that is its genius [/QUOTE]True, but you couldn't FIND the some of the older, out of print funk/soul stuff like you can now. A lot of the other stuff was and is still available.

But yes, a friend once said "You can make ANYTHING hip-hop." I agree with that.

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 01:34 PM

I for one am glad that househeads don't have the same mentality. If they did it would pervert the music just like hip hop. Hip hop, like house, is an underground music. The shit you hear on the radio and in most clubs is not hip hop, but a poor imitation. Some say with the commercialization of rap music has taken it a long way. I would agree, but in the wrong direction. The music is a joke done by a lot of step n' fetchit ass clowns (fo shizzle my nizzle). A modern day minstrel (SP?) show put on for suburban white kids. I once saw Russell Simmons on Larry King Live citing industry numbers of how 85% of rap music is bought by non minorities. Think about that the next time you bumpin 50 cent. It wasn't made for you.

[ July 29, 2003, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Eargasm ]

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 01:38 PM

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 01:40 PM

NEWSFLASH

our top story tonite as told by Garrett Morris:

HIP HOP IS NOT MADE FOR MINORITIES (BLACKS)!!!!!!

that is all

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
NEWSFLASH

our top story tonite as told by Garrett Morris:

HIP HOP IS NOT MADE FOR MINORITIES (BLACKS)!!!!!!

that is all Actually hip hop is... But radio rap ain't hip hop.

Bobby L

07-29-2003, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
NEWSFLASH

our top story tonite as told by Garrett Morris:

HIP HOP IS NOT MADE FOR MINORITIES (BLACKS)!!!!!!

that is all too funny graemlins/rofl.gif

Bobby

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
I for one am glad that househeads don't have the same mentality. If they did it would pervert the music just like hip hop. Hip hop, like house, is an underground music. The shit you hear on the radio and in most clubs is not hip hop, but a poor imitation. Some say with the commercialization of rap music has taken it a long way. I would agree, but in the wrong direction. The music is a joke done by a lot of step n' fetchit ass clowns (fo shizzle my nizzle). A modern day minstrel (SP?) show put on for suburban white kids. I once saw Russell Simmons on Larry King Live citing industry numbers of how 85% of rap music is bought by non minorities. Think about that the next time you bumpin 50 cent. It wasn't made for you. uh huh...sure...whatever you say....btw, when is the next house music summit to repeal the NYS Rockefeller drug laws being held...i missed the announcement [/QUOTE]a lot of African antiquities are purchased by caucasians..think about that next time you buy it - it wasn't made for you (blacks)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
NEWSFLASH

our top story tonite as told by Garrett Morris:

HIP HOP IS NOT MADE FOR MINORITIES (BLACKS)!!!!!!

that is all Actually hip hop is... But radio rap ain't hip hop. [/QUOTE]explain that to Funkmaser Flex and Red Alert...i'm sure they would be shocked that they were so misinformed all these years - but now with your guidance they will finally come to their senses

Fletch

07-29-2003, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Leslie:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by einnod23:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
puffy is talking about buying the KNICKS!!! He's gotta have partners, though. I wonder who are they gonna be? And the NBA owners have to approve of it. Peace. [/QUOTE]Dude that is so not an issue...come on do you think he doesn't have people BANGING on his door wanting to talk turkey about this? [/QUOTE]The approval part WILL be an issue. Example: Donald Watkins is an Black Alabama attorney who's been trying to buy a Major League Baseball franchise for the past five years. He's been given nothing but the runaround by Bud Selig and MLB.

If you think Watkins is given a runaround, what makes you think P-Diddy won't in the NBA (those owners WILL hesitate to give approve of a franchise sale to a hip hop cat. Sad, but true). Yes, I agree that he can get some partners. Looks like this will be another barrier hip hop's gonna have to obliterate. Peace.

mhd

07-29-2003, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by einnod23:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by einnod23:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
puffy is talking about buying the KNICKS!!! He's gotta have partners, though. I wonder who are they gonna be? And the NBA owners have to approve of it. Peace. [/QUOTE]Dude that is so not an issue...come on do you think he doesn't have people BANGING on his door wanting to talk turkey about this? [/QUOTE]The approval part WILL be an issue. Example: Donald Watkins is an Black Alabama attorney who's been trying to buy a Major League Baseball franchise for the past five years. He's been given nothing but the runaround by Bud Selig and MLB.

If you think Watkins is given a runaround, what makes you think P-Diddy won't in the NBA (those owners WILL hesitate to give approve of a franchise sale to a hip hop cat. Sad, but true). Yes, I agree that he can get some partners. Looks like this will be another barrier hip hop's gonna have to obliterate. Peace. [/QUOTE]stern's dilemna: love money versus selling a team (the knicks no less) to a young black man. there are forces that would never let that happen

The Donger

07-29-2003, 01:57 PM

Markbe, all I'm saying is that if other musicians had the same mentality you are talking about, the rap game itself would be much different.

And yes, it is changing cause those old heads have wised up. Why do you think the need for so many keyboard beats and drum machines? It's economics really changing the sound.

FYI, I hope Curtis Mayfield estate is seeing some $$$ from Pharell's "frontin". While I love that song, Pharell straight ripped off the intro from Curtis' "right on through the darkness". And Pharell says he doesn't "sample".

And while a lot of sampled artists have wised up, those 1-5,000 only vinly re-issues are not cutting it for the broke ass mofos, I doubt they are even seeing any $$$ from that shit. The sad part is many of these heads don't even own the rights to thier own music. People like David Axelrod and Galt McDermot are a couple of the exceptions, but you don't see them on Cribs.

FYI, I am a pretty big hip-hop head and I also make beats and sample all the time, but the truth is the thruth.

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by The Donger:
Markbe, all I'm saying is that if other musicians had the same mentality you are talking about, the rap game itself would be much different.

And yes, it is changing cause those old heads have wised up. Why do you think the need for so many keyboard beats and drum machines? It's economics really changing the sound.

FYI, I hope Curtis Mayfield estate is seeing some $$$ from Pharell's "frontin". While I love that song, Pharell straight ripped off the intro from Curtis' "right on through the darkness". And Pharell says he doesn't "sample".

And while a lot of sampled artists have wised up, those 1-5,000 only vinly re-issues are not cutting it for the broke ass mofos, I doubt they are even seeing any $$$ from that shit. The sad part is many of these heads don't even own the rights to thier own music. People like David Axelrod and Galt McDermot are a couple of the exceptions, but you don't see them on Cribs.

FYI, I am a pretty big hip-hop head and I also make beats and sample all the time, but the truth is the thruth. name 5 artists who have been raped by hiphoppers...this is one of those urban legends

i'll give ya james brown who got sampled to death ( and he himself says he didn't mind) to start

the fact is that all genres bite at will and this isn't an issue that is tied to hiphop

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 02:04 PM

sheeeeit...you know R Isley (aka Mr Big) aint complainin

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 02:10 PM

Let's break it down in common sense terms. You are a business that has 85% of your sales come from a certain demographic. Would you produce a product that is design to appeal mainly to the 15% of your customer base? I don't think so. record labels aren't dummies. They put out the latest trend so they can sell to the masses.

kev

07-29-2003, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by The Donger:
And while a lot of sampled artists have wised up, those 1-5,000 only vinly re-issues are not cutting it for the broke ass mofos, I doubt they are even seeing any $$$ from that shit. The sad part is many of these heads don't even own the rights to thier own music. People like David Axelrod and Galt McDermot are a couple of the exceptions, but you don't see them on Cribs.hahaha @ Galt McDermot on Cribs. I wasn't speaking on re-issues as far as them wisening up on sample laws. I was touching on royalties paid to the artists by the people who sample them. Some of the musicians who are sampled have made a living off of royalty checks alone. James Brown for one will take half of what you make if you sample him.

The Donger

07-29-2003, 02:12 PM

James Brown did mind, citing the fact that curse words were used over his beats.

Other artists "didn't mind", when they finally got paid.

As far as people that never got thier fare share of sample $$$ someone could go on for days, the first two that come to mind for some reason are Liquid Liquid and ESG. And thier revival and recent surge in popularity doesn't have much to do with hip-hop as it does British kids re-issuing danceable punk at a time when House music is stale as **** and electro new wave and punk is making a big comeback.

And yes all forms of music borrow from each other, but since you brought up the hip-hop mentality, I don't see why you are so suprised about the fact that I'm talking about the hip-hop mentality, and how hip-hop can be affected if other artist's had the same mentality. I'm sticking with your thread topic.

Fletch

07-29-2003, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
sheeeeit...you know R Isley (aka Mr Big) aint complainin He's gettin paid. That's why he ain't complaining.

And if Mr. Big doesn't get paid:
a) "You got this one time..." graemlins/rofl.gif

b) "How ya doin' Mr. Big?"

"What the hell is goin on?"

"Whadya mean what's goin on?" graemlins/rofl.gif

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
NEWSFLASH

our top story tonite as told by Garrett Morris:

HIP HOP IS NOT MADE FOR MINORITIES (BLACKS)!!!!!!

that is all Actually hip hop is... But radio rap ain't hip hop. [/QUOTE]explain that to Funkmaser Flex and Red Alert...i'm sure they would be shocked that they were so misinformed all these years - but now with your guidance they will finally come to their senses [/QUOTE]Actually I don't have to explain it to them I'm sure they are well aware.

The Donger

07-29-2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
Let's break it down in common sense terms. You are a business that has 85% of your sales come from a certain demographic. Would you produce a product that is design to appeal mainly to the 15% of your customer base? I don't think so. record labels aren't dummies. They put out the latest trend so they can sell to the masses. yes and no. White kids just wanna listen to what black folks are feeling. So it aint made for whitey, but they are smart enough to know that whitey will want it. If black folks aint feeling a hip-hop track, then it probably aint gonna be big with whitey.

Rappers don't go in the studio and think "white" when they make a track. Unless they are Ja Rule.

The Donger

07-29-2003, 02:18 PM

Red Alert and Funk Flex know that change is good, or hip-hop would be as dead as house music and they would be broke as ****. New sounds, styles, etc... keeping it alive.

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by The Donger:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Let's break it down in common sense terms. You are a business that has 85% of your sales come from a certain demographic. Would you produce a product that is design to appeal mainly to the 15% of your customer base? I don't think so. record labels aren't dummies. They put out the latest trend so they can sell to the masses. yes and no. White kids just wanna listen to what black folks are feeling. So it aint made for whitey, but they are smart enough to know that whitey will want it. If black folks aint feeling a hip-hop track, then it probably aint gonna be big with whitey.

Rappers don't go in the studio and think "white" when they make a track. Unless they are Ja Rule. [/QUOTE]I can see your argument but at the same time what the artist goes in the studio thinking doesn't mean anything. Who puts that artist in the studio and funds the project? The label. An A&R is not going to sign an artist the label does not believe will sell. So the thinking of making it for whitey comes way before the studio.

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
Let's break it down in common sense terms. You are a business that has 85% of your sales come from a certain demographic. Would you produce a product that is design to appeal mainly to the 15% of your customer base? I don't think so. record labels aren't dummies. They put out the latest trend so they can sell to the masses. so when they talk about shit that white people don't know about...whats the appeal?

the bottom line is that they make music for blacks and about blacks..our nightmares, our fantasies - the fact that whites pick up on it is a benefit...

but i have noticed all the masses of white women in the videos...can't a black girl get a hoochie role too?

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by The Donger:
James Brown did mind, citing the fact that curse words were used over his beats.

Other artists "didn't mind", when they finally got paid.

As far as people that never got thier fare share of sample $$$ someone could go on for days, the first two that come to mind for some reason are Liquid Liquid and ESG. And thier revival and recent surge in popularity doesn't have much to do with hip-hop as it does British kids re-issuing danceable punk at a time when House music is stale as **** and electro new wave and punk is making a big comeback.

And yes all forms of music borrow from each other, but since you brought up the hip-hop mentality, I don't see why you are so suprised about the fact that I'm talking about the hip-hop mentality, and how hip-hop can be affected if other artist's had the same mentality. I'm sticking with your thread topic. you didn't say "fair share" you said cats got "raped" and then you cite liquid liquid and esg!!!!???
come back to us yo

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by The Donger:
James Brown did mind, citing the fact that curse words were used over his beats.

Other artists "didn't mind", when they finally got paid.

As far as people that never got thier fare share of sample $$$ someone could go on for days, the first two that come to mind for some reason are Liquid Liquid and ESG. And thier revival and recent surge in popularity doesn't have much to do with hip-hop as it does British kids re-issuing danceable punk at a time when House music is stale as **** and electro new wave and punk is making a big comeback.

And yes all forms of music borrow from each other, but since you brought up the hip-hop mentality, I don't see why you are so suprised about the fact that I'm talking about the hip-hop mentality, and how hip-hop can be affected if other artist's had the same mentality. I'm sticking with your thread topic. while you do have points that peeps have been sampled without proper reimbursement that issue has been pretty dead since the Biz went to court over a decade ago (although some fools still get sued)...btw, the point of the thread..the hiphop mentality is about the embrace of change and social and cultural activism ( whether or not peeps agree with their methods and music these cats are still gettibg shit done)

ngeso

07-29-2003, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by square root:
okay, so i'm curious as to what people think would help house music in a positive way and i just don't mean profit wise? i've seen some dj's out here in l.a. try and start up after school type programs to get kids involved at an early age learning how dj and such. i'm talking not just making house music a viable commodity(sp), but something more like a culture than a product. thoughts.... hip hop is a lifestyle-industry. it's about drinks, clothes, cars, jewelry, and it is about testosterone, machismo and a seemingly infinite supply of availlable hotties shakin' that ass;

the kind of puritan 5-%-er solely music-focussed deep house we're talking about on here doesn't push a marketable lifestyle at all.

peace. ngeso.

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by ngeso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by square root:
okay, so i'm curious as to what people think would help house music in a positive way and i just don't mean profit wise? i've seen some dj's out here in l.a. try and start up after school type programs to get kids involved at an early age learning how dj and such. i'm talking not just making house music a viable commodity(sp), but something more like a culture than a product. thoughts.... hip hop is a lifestyle-industry. it's about drinks, clothes, cars, jewelry, and it is about testosterone, machismo and a seemingly infinite supply of availlable hotties shakin' that ass;

the kind of puritan 5-%-er solely music-focussed deep house we're talking about on here doesn't push a marketable lifestyle at all.

peace. ngeso. [/QUOTE]ngeso...your words should be framed for posterity

Dolemite73

07-29-2003, 03:16 PM

You have stated some of the positives of the "hip-hop mentality", but what about the negative? This cash, money, hoes mentality that most of the mainstram hip-hop seems to reflect has got black folks minds all messed up. I look at the younger folks and all they seem to want is a nice car sitting on 22-inch rims, with some hootchie in the ride with them. How about buying property? How about getting an education? I see in Chicago or any other urban area, fools with nice cars and stuff still living with their mommas begging for gas money. What's up with that? It that "hip-hop, hood-rich mentality". Hip-hop in its purest form is NOT about what these cats are portraying. Are they getting paid? Yes. Do they have power? Yes. But I ask again, what about the bad shit? I say there is lots of it. It a modern day minstrel show.

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Let's break it down in common sense terms. You are a business that has 85% of your sales come from a certain demographic. Would you produce a product that is design to appeal mainly to the 15% of your customer base? I don't think so. record labels aren't dummies. They put out the latest trend so they can sell to the masses. so when they talk about shit that white people don't know about...whats the appeal?

the bottom line is that they make music for blacks and about blacks..our nightmares, our fantasies - the fact that whites pick up on it is a benefit...

but i have noticed all the masses of white women in the videos...can't a black girl get a hoochie role too? [/QUOTE]I respect your opinion but I feel it is pretty sad. I don't mean that disrespectfully at all. Because I consider you to be one of the more in tune brothers on this board. I find it sad that you can't see what I'm saying. It's so blatant and obvious. I guess we see what we want to see. Check out the movie Bamboozled, take the tap dancing brother and make him a rapper. I see the blackface on 50, Jay Z, Puffy..etc.

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Let's break it down in common sense terms. You are a business that has 85% of your sales come from a certain demographic. Would you produce a product that is design to appeal mainly to the 15% of your customer base? I don't think so. record labels aren't dummies. They put out the latest trend so they can sell to the masses. so when they talk about shit that white people don't know about...whats the appeal?

the bottom line is that they make music for blacks and about blacks..our nightmares, our fantasies - the fact that whites pick up on it is a benefit...

but i have noticed all the masses of white women in the videos...can't a black girl get a hoochie role too? [/QUOTE]So Jay Z raping about his wealth is relevant to you?

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 03:20 PM

What happened to conscious rap? It stopped selling.

Dolemite73

07-29-2003, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
What happened to conscious rap? It stopped selling. What happened to it? Artist like Common, Tali Kweli, Dead Prez arent marketable because they dont do that coon and Uncle Tom shit like the rest of these mainstram cats. They are rapping about issues, not material shit. Sadly their stuff dont sell. Its a damn shame too.

Doug

07-29-2003, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Let's break it down in common sense terms. You are a business that has 85% of your sales come from a certain demographic. Would you produce a product that is design to appeal mainly to the 15% of your customer base? I don't think so. record labels aren't dummies. They put out the latest trend so they can sell to the masses. so when they talk about shit that white people don't know about...whats the appeal?

the bottom line is that they make music for blacks and about blacks..our nightmares, our fantasies - the fact that whites pick up on it is a benefit...

but i have noticed all the masses of white women in the videos...can't a black girl get a hoochie role too? [/QUOTE]So Jay Z raping about his wealth is relevant to you? [/QUOTE]It's probably not relevant to the overwhelming majority of people who buy his music, white or black. He really isn't say anything that countless other "real" MCs from the old school haven't said a million times before. Boasting has always been a part of hip-hop, so that argument doesn't really seem to hold weight.

(I know I'm late to this, but anyway...)

Doug

07-29-2003, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
What happened to conscious rap? It stopped selling. Are you trying to say it stopped selling because it started being marketed to white people who weren't interested in it?

[ July 29, 2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Doug ]

Dolemite73

07-29-2003, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
What happened to conscious rap? It stopped selling. Are you trying to say it stopped selling because it started being marketed to white people who weren't interested in it? [/QUOTE]I would say yes. Hip-hop didnt blow up and take over the American culture like it did until the mid to late 90's. And thats exactly when the more conscious typre cats fell off.

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Let's break it down in common sense terms. You are a business that has 85% of your sales come from a certain demographic. Would you produce a product that is design to appeal mainly to the 15% of your customer base? I don't think so. record labels aren't dummies. They put out the latest trend so they can sell to the masses. so when they talk about shit that white people don't know about...whats the appeal?

the bottom line is that they make music for blacks and about blacks..our nightmares, our fantasies - the fact that whites pick up on it is a benefit...

but i have noticed all the masses of white women in the videos...can't a black girl get a hoochie role too? [/QUOTE]So Jay Z raping about his wealth is relevant to you? [/QUOTE]It's probably not relevant to the overwhelming majority of people who buy his music, white or black. He really isn't say anything that countless other "real" MCs from the old school haven't said a million times before. Boasting has always been a part of hip-hop, so that argument doesn't really seem to hold weight.

(I know I'm late to this, but anyway...) [/QUOTE]Actually it does. They were boasting about how the could rock the Mic/Party or whatever. Not rapping about the diamonds on their watch. But usually they had some conscious, positive songs on their albums as well. KRS One comes immediately to mind. Talking about the black experience and not just glorifying stupid "hood" shit.

[ July 29, 2003, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Eargasm ]

kev

07-29-2003, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
What happened to conscious rap? It stopped selling. The labels found something they would rather market. gangsta rap

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Dolemite73:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
What happened to conscious rap? It stopped selling. Are you trying to say it stopped selling because it started being marketed to white people who weren't interested in it? [/QUOTE]I would say yes. Hip-hop didnt blow up and take over the American culture like it did until the mid to late 90's. And thats exactly when the more conscious typre cats fell off. [/QUOTE]It blew up when west coast cats like NWA got big. they were rapping about stupid negative shit. What seems to be missing here is that whats selling is all the negative shit about the black experience. It keeps our people in a certain mindset.

Doug

07-29-2003, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Let's break it down in common sense terms. You are a business that has 85% of your sales come from a certain demographic. Would you produce a product that is design to appeal mainly to the 15% of your customer base? I don't think so. record labels aren't dummies. They put out the latest trend so they can sell to the masses. so when they talk about shit that white people don't know about...whats the appeal?

the bottom line is that they make music for blacks and about blacks..our nightmares, our fantasies - the fact that whites pick up on it is a benefit...

but i have noticed all the masses of white women in the videos...can't a black girl get a hoochie role too? [/QUOTE]So Jay Z raping about his wealth is relevant to you? [/QUOTE]It's probably not relevant to the overwhelming majority of people who buy his music, white or black. He really isn't say anything that countless other "real" MCs from the old school haven't said a million times before. Boasting has always been a part of hip-hop, so that argument doesn't really seem to hold weight.

(I know I'm late to this, but anyway...) [/QUOTE]Actually it does. They were boasting about how the could rock the Mic/Party or whatever. Not rapping about the diamonds on their watch. But usually they had some conscious, positive songs on their albums as well. Talking about the black experience and not just glorifying stupid "hood" shit. [/QUOTE]When was the last time you looked at the cover of "Paid In Full" by Eric B. & Rakim? Or how about "Long Live The Kane" by Big Daddy Kane? Or how about "Criminal Minded" by BDP? You seem to make the mistake that a lot of "old" heads make when judging today's hip-hop by trying to paint everything that came before it as being "positive", "uplifting", and "nonmaterialistic".

kev

07-29-2003, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Dolemite73:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
What happened to conscious rap? It stopped selling. Are you trying to say it stopped selling because it started being marketed to white people who weren't interested in it? [/QUOTE]I would say yes. Hip-hop didnt blow up and take over the American culture like it did until the mid to late 90's. And thats exactly when the more conscious typre cats fell off. [/QUOTE]Did they fall off, or did the labels and magazines focus on something else?

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Let's break it down in common sense terms. You are a business that has 85% of your sales come from a certain demographic. Would you produce a product that is design to appeal mainly to the 15% of your customer base? I don't think so. record labels aren't dummies. They put out the latest trend so they can sell to the masses. so when they talk about shit that white people don't know about...whats the appeal?

the bottom line is that they make music for blacks and about blacks..our nightmares, our fantasies - the fact that whites pick up on it is a benefit...

but i have noticed all the masses of white women in the videos...can't a black girl get a hoochie role too? [/QUOTE]So Jay Z raping about his wealth is relevant to you? [/QUOTE]It's probably not relevant to the overwhelming majority of people who buy his music, white or black. He really isn't say anything that countless other "real" MCs from the old school haven't said a million times before. Boasting has always been a part of hip-hop, so that argument doesn't really seem to hold weight.

(I know I'm late to this, but anyway...) [/QUOTE]Actually it does. They were boasting about how the could rock the Mic/Party or whatever. Not rapping about the diamonds on their watch. But usually they had some conscious, positive songs on their albums as well. Talking about the black experience and not just glorifying stupid "hood" shit. [/QUOTE]When was the last time you looked at the cover of "Paid In Full" by Eric B. & Rakim? Or how about "Long Live The Kane" by Big Daddy Kane? Or how about "Criminal Minded" by BDP? You seem to make the mistake that a lot of "old" heads make when judging today's hip-hop by trying to paint everything that came before it as being "positive", "uplifting", and "nonmaterialistic". [/QUOTE]Listen to the rest of the album. Rakim was all knowledge bruh. That was the absolute worst reference you could have made.

Dolemite73

07-29-2003, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Let's break it down in common sense terms. You are a business that has 85% of your sales come from a certain demographic. Would you produce a product that is design to appeal mainly to the 15% of your customer base? I don't think so. record labels aren't dummies. They put out the latest trend so they can sell to the masses. so when they talk about shit that white people don't know about...whats the appeal?

the bottom line is that they make music for blacks and about blacks..our nightmares, our fantasies - the fact that whites pick up on it is a benefit...

but i have noticed all the masses of white women in the videos...can't a black girl get a hoochie role too? [/QUOTE]So Jay Z raping about his wealth is relevant to you? [/QUOTE]It's probably not relevant to the overwhelming majority of people who buy his music, white or black. He really isn't say anything that countless other "real" MCs from the old school haven't said a million times before. Boasting has always been a part of hip-hop, so that argument doesn't really seem to hold weight.

(I know I'm late to this, but anyway...) [/QUOTE]Actually it does. They were boasting about how the could rock the Mic/Party or whatever. Not rapping about the diamonds on their watch. But usually they had some conscious, positive songs on their albums as well. Talking about the black experience and not just glorifying stupid "hood" shit. [/QUOTE]When was the last time you looked at the cover of "Paid In Full" by Eric B. & Rakim? Or how about "Long Live The Kane" by Big Daddy Kane? Or how about "Criminal Minded" by BDP? You seem to make the mistake that a lot of "old" heads make when judging today's hip-hop by trying to paint everything that came before it as being "positive", "uplifting", and "nonmaterialistic". [/QUOTE]No, I like to paint it as original. Hip-hop in its purest form was the type of stuff like BDP, Big Daddy Kane and others put out. Not this mindless garbage that is on the radio today. Remember, BDP and those cats werent on radio like these cats are today. So they marketed their music to the hood. Do you think Nelly is doing that? Hell naw! He and his label is marketing it to surburbia.

kev

07-29-2003, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Doug:
[QUOTEWhen was the last time you looked at the cover of "Paid In Full" by Eric B. & Rakim? Or how about "Long Live The Kane" by Big Daddy Kane? Or how about "Criminal Minded" by BDP? You seem to make the mistake that a lot of "old" heads make when judging today's hip-hop by trying to paint everything that came before it as being "positive", "uplifting", and "nonmaterialistic". Very true. You can add Slick Rick on to that list, too. You can even go further back than that. Dollar bill y'all.

Doug

07-29-2003, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
It blew up when west coast cats like NWA got big. they were rapping about stupid negative shit. NWA wasn't even marketed to the masses. They benefitted from the attention rap was getting on MTV, but that's about it. Regardless, controversy sells, no matter what the product.

kev

07-29-2003, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Dolemite73:
[QUOTE]No, I like to paint it as original. Hip-hop in its purest form was the type of stuff like BDP, Big Daddy Kane and others put out. Not this mindless garbage that is on the radio today. Remember, BDP and those cats werent on radio like these cats are today. So they marketed their music to the hood. Do you think Nelly is doing that? Hell naw! He and his label is marketing it to surburbia. MTV ****ed everything up.

Doug

07-29-2003, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
Listen to the rest of the album. Rakim was all knowledge bruh. That was the absolute worst reference you could have made. I have two copies of the album. It is one of my favorite albums of all time. I know every lyric inside out. You're not going to sit here and tell me that everything he said was "all knowledge". Besides that, I was referencing the album cover, which clearly shows two men who are at least in part about money and consumption.

Dolemite73

07-29-2003, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by IIBS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dolemite73:

No, I like to paint it as original. Hip-hop in its purest form was the type of stuff like BDP, Big Daddy Kane and others put out. Not this mindless garbage that is on the radio today. Remember, BDP and those cats werent on radio like these cats are today. So they marketed their music to the hood. Do you think Nelly is doing that? Hell naw! He and his label is marketing it to surburbia. MTV ****ed everything up. Word....thats why I have respect for the cats not on MTV. They are keeping things real. And I support those kinds of cats financially too. Its a damn shame that Talib Kweli "Reflection Eternal" get no air play but Nelly sells 7 million copies. It's criminal.

[ July 29, 2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Dolemite73 ]

Dolemite73

07-29-2003, 03:47 PM

Also, lets not for get that music, even hip-hop, is ART. Can you sit back a truly say these cats are repecting hip-hop as an ART?

Doug

07-29-2003, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Dolemite73:
No, I like to paint it as original. Hip-hop in its purest form was the type of stuff like BDP, Big Daddy Kane and others put out. Not this mindless garbage that is on the radio today. Remember, BDP and those cats werent on radio like these cats are today. So they marketed their music to the hood. Do you think Nelly is doing that? Hell naw! He and his label is marketing it to surburbia. Whoa whoa whoa...what does this have to do with my argument? My argument isn't about originality or marketing. My argument is that painting old school hip-hop as something that was totally positive and never "negative" or materialistic is bogus. There has always been an element of materialism and boasting in hip-hop. It may be overemphasized by many of today's hip-hop artists, but it's not that much different than what some of these guys were saying in the past.

drilla

07-29-2003, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Listen to the rest of the album. Rakim was all knowledge bruh. That was the absolute worst reference you could have made. I have two copies of the album. It is one of my favorite albums of all time. I know every lyric inside out. You're not going to sit here and tell me that everything he said was "all knowledge". Besides that, I was referencing the album cover, which clearly shows two men who are at least in part about money and consumption. [/QUOTE]i hope they are marked so you can juggle.

i cant believe someone just told you to go back and listen to that album...

damn.

[ July 29, 2003, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: matthew j ]

Doug

07-29-2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by matthew j:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Listen to the rest of the album. Rakim was all knowledge bruh. That was the absolute worst reference you could have made. I have two copies of the album. It is one of my favorite albums of all time. I know every lyric inside out. You're not going to sit here and tell me that everything he said was "all knowledge". Besides that, I was referencing the album cover, which clearly shows two men who are at least in part about money and consumption. [/QUOTE]i hope they are marked so you can juggle.

i cant believe someone just told you to go back and listen to that album...

damn. [/QUOTE]Step off son. This is a grown folks conversation.

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Listen to the rest of the album. Rakim was all knowledge bruh. That was the absolute worst reference you could have made. I have two copies of the album. It is one of my favorite albums of all time. I know every lyric inside out. You're not going to sit here and tell me that everything he said was "all knowledge". Besides that, I was referencing the album cover, which clearly shows two men who are at least in part about money and consumption. [/QUOTE]The cover does not mean a thing. The album (last time I looked we were talking about the music and the the packaging it came in) was not about the materialistic things on the cover. Nor was KRS, or Kane.

Dolemite73

07-29-2003, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dolemite73:
No, I like to paint it as original. Hip-hop in its purest form was the type of stuff like BDP, Big Daddy Kane and others put out. Not this mindless garbage that is on the radio today. Remember, BDP and those cats werent on radio like these cats are today. So they marketed their music to the hood. Do you think Nelly is doing that? Hell naw! He and his label is marketing it to surburbia. Whoa whoa whoa...what does this have to do with my argument? My argument isn't about originality or marketing. My argument is that painting old school hip-hop as something that was totally positive and never "negative" or materialistic is bogus. There has always been an element of materialism and boasting in hip-hop. It may be overemphasized by many of today's hip-hop artists, but it's not that much different than what some of these guys were saying in the past. [/QUOTE]I still say there was a lot of "teaching" in old school hip-hop that aint here now. The guys in the past had something else to say besides the material side of life. I hate that my kids have to hear some of this bullshit that is out on the radio. I personally have not listened to the radio in over a year now and when ever my kids are with me, they dont either.

kev

07-29-2003, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by Dolemite73:
Also, lets not for get that music, even hip-hop, is ART. Can you sit back a truly say these cats are repecting hip-hop as an ART? The wild thing about this whole thing is that alot of these commercial rap artists actually came from the underground. dolllar bill y'all.

Dolemite73

07-29-2003, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by IIBS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dolemite73:
Also, lets not for get that music, even hip-hop, is ART. Can you sit back a truly say these cats are repecting hip-hop as an ART? The wild thing about this whole thing is that alot of these commercial rap artists actually came from the underground. dolllar bill y'all. [/QUOTE]Hence, they sold out. Tap-dancing for Mr. Charlie. Its sad!

drilla

07-29-2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by matthew j:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Listen to the rest of the album. Rakim was all knowledge bruh. That was the absolute worst reference you could have made. I have two copies of the album. It is one of my favorite albums of all time. I know every lyric inside out. You're not going to sit here and tell me that everything he said was "all knowledge". Besides that, I was referencing the album cover, which clearly shows two men who are at least in part about money and consumption. [/QUOTE]i hope they are marked so you can juggle.

i cant believe someone just told you to go back and listen to that album...

damn. [/QUOTE]Step off son. This is a grown folks conversation. [/QUOTE]im just gonna say it for old times sake:

"anytime bitch, let's battle"

The Donger

07-29-2003, 03:54 PM

You don't think ESG got raped? How many ****ing times have they been sampled??? Telling me to "come back to you"? I am friends with Deborah of ESG. I would think I know a little more about it than you do. She is still living in the Bronx and never saw a penny, while other cats are rocking gold. That's getting raped by hip-hop right there.

Liquid Liquid's legendary label 99 records collapsed cause of the ****ing lawsuit since they couldn't get ever paid from getting ripped off. A bunch of amazing bands on that label that forwarded a beautiful movement of music (the whole NYC No Wave thing) suddenly were all ****ed. A legendary label that helped forward a movement died. Hip-Hop didn't want to give them thier share. That's getting raped by hip-hop right there.

kev

07-29-2003, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Listen to the rest of the album. Rakim was all knowledge bruh. That was the absolute worst reference you could have made. I have two copies of the album. It is one of my favorite albums of all time. I know every lyric inside out. You're not going to sit here and tell me that everything he said was "all knowledge". Besides that, I was referencing the album cover, which clearly shows two men who are at least in part about money and consumption. [/QUOTE]The cover does not mean a thing. The album (last time I looked we were talking about the music and the the packaging it came in) was not about the materialistic things on the cover. Nor was KRS, or Kane. [/QUOTE]Well, Kane's whole persona and image was this pimp shit. So, he did talk about materialistic items. Don't forget BDP's first album was called "Criminal Minded" and featured KRS and Scott on the sleeve holding guns. And then there's also Kool G Rap.

But really, to me it ain't really WHAT you're rhyming about. It comes down to HOW you're doing it. Just b/c you're conscience doesn't mean you're dope. Just b/c you talk about guns don't mean you're wack.

Doug

07-29-2003, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Dolemite73:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dolemite73:
No, I like to paint it as original. Hip-hop in its purest form was the type of stuff like BDP, Big Daddy Kane and others put out. Not this mindless garbage that is on the radio today. Remember, BDP and those cats werent on radio like these cats are today. So they marketed their music to the hood. Do you think Nelly is doing that? Hell naw! He and his label is marketing it to surburbia. Whoa whoa whoa...what does this have to do with my argument? My argument isn't about originality or marketing. My argument is that painting old school hip-hop as something that was totally positive and never "negative" or materialistic is bogus. There has always been an element of materialism and boasting in hip-hop. It may be overemphasized by many of today's hip-hop artists, but it's not that much different than what some of these guys were saying in the past. [/QUOTE]I still say there was a lot of "teaching" in old school hip-hop that aint here now. The guys in the past had something else to say besides the material side of life. I hate that my kids have to hear some of this bullshit that is out on the radio. I personally have not listened to the radio in over a year now and when ever my kids are with me, they dont either. [/QUOTE]Don't judge all of today's hip hop or all of today's hip hop artists solely by what you hear on the radio. That is all radio wants you to hear. Some of these artists do delve into more meaningful issues on their albums if you take the time to listen.

I too refuse to let my kids hear much of what is on the radio. But I'm not so against today's hip-hop that I can't recognize the "raunch" and/or materialism in old school songs like "Treat Her Like A Prostitute", "Big Ole Butt", "The P Is Free", "I Got It Made", "Electric Relaxation", etc., etc.

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dolemite73:
No, I like to paint it as original. Hip-hop in its purest form was the type of stuff like BDP, Big Daddy Kane and others put out. Not this mindless garbage that is on the radio today. Remember, BDP and those cats werent on radio like these cats are today. So they marketed their music to the hood. Do you think Nelly is doing that? Hell naw! He and his label is marketing it to surburbia. Whoa whoa whoa...what does this have to do with my argument? My argument isn't about originality or marketing. My argument is that painting old school hip-hop as something that was totally positive and never "negative" or materialistic is bogus. There has always been an element of materialism and boasting in hip-hop. It may be overemphasized by many of today's hip-hop artists, but it's not that much different than what some of these guys were saying in the past. [/QUOTE]No one has said that old school was never materialist or never negative. Those are aspects of life, black, white or whatever. So naturally there was some of that. That is not the point. The point, as I see it, is that that is not ALL it was about. ALL you hear on the radio is folks rapping about the same shit.

kev

07-29-2003, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by The Donger:
You don't think ESG got raped? How many ****ing times have they been sampled??? Telling me to "come back to you"? I am friends with Deborah of ESG. I would think I know a little more about it than you do. She is still living in the Bronx and never saw a penny, while other cats are rocking gold. That's getting raped by hip-hop right there.

Liquid Liquid's legendary label 99 records collapsed cause of the ****ing lawsuit since they couldn't get ever paid from getting ripped off. A bunch of amazing bands on that label that forwarded a beautiful movement of music (the whole NYC No Wave thing) suddenly were all ****ed. A legendary label that helped forward a movement died. Hip-Hop didn't want to give them thier share. That's getting raped by hip-hop right there. So tell me exactly what hip hop artist is "rocking gold" due to a record they put out that sampled ESG?

More like Sylvia Robinson was robbing Liquid Liquid.

TAC

07-29-2003, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by The Donger:
Too bad many funk/soul artists that got sampled don't have that mentality. Then they would rape the rappers that have been raping them. I'm just at the beginnig of the thread, but you don't know what your talking about...

Dolemite73

07-29-2003, 04:00 PM

And even the shit not on the radio just shows how little skillz these cats have. The only reason they are on the radio most of the time is payola.

Doug

07-29-2003, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
The cover does not mean a thing. The album (last time I looked we were talking about the music and the the packaging it came in) was not about the materialistic things on the cover. Nor was KRS, or Kane. I think this is a cop out argument and one that not only turns a blind eye to some of the questionable things said in some of the songs on all three albums, but one that also doesn't recognize that the images displayed, while maybe not indicative of the entire persona of each artist, certainly was a part of the persona of each. If they were truly the completely "conscious" artists you make them out to be, their covers would look like the cover of a dead prez or a Common album.

Doug

07-29-2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dolemite73:
No, I like to paint it as original. Hip-hop in its purest form was the type of stuff like BDP, Big Daddy Kane and others put out. Not this mindless garbage that is on the radio today. Remember, BDP and those cats werent on radio like these cats are today. So they marketed their music to the hood. Do you think Nelly is doing that? Hell naw! He and his label is marketing it to surburbia. Whoa whoa whoa...what does this have to do with my argument? My argument isn't about originality or marketing. My argument is that painting old school hip-hop as something that was totally positive and never "negative" or materialistic is bogus. There has always been an element of materialism and boasting in hip-hop. It may be overemphasized by many of today's hip-hop artists, but it's not that much different than what some of these guys were saying in the past. [/QUOTE]No one has said that old school was never materialist or never negative. Those are aspects of life, black, white or whatever. So naturally there was some of that. That is not the point. The point, as I see it, is that that is not ALL it was about. ALL you hear on the radio is folks rapping about the same shit. [/QUOTE]I won't argue the point about what is on the radio. My point is that you can't extrapolate from music you hear on the radio that:

1. It isn't hip-hop

2. It is never positive

3. Old school artists never discussed similar themes in their music.

The Donger

07-29-2003, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Donger:
Too bad many funk/soul artists that got sampled don't have that mentality. Then they would rape the rappers that have been raping them. I'm just at the beginnig of the thread, but you don't know what your talking about... [/QUOTE]Just read the production credits on any hip-hop album. Maybe 2 out of every 5 samples get credited, and hopefully paid.

FYI, my friend works in music publishing (does mostly hip-hop stuff for major artists), and her boyfriend is an A&R for some major hip-hop artists. I speak to them about this shit all the time, especially cause I make beats. I know the game pretty well.

I will keep an open mind and would like to hear what you can add.

FYI, I'm not being righteous, I would do the same if I could sell my beats and get away with it. Just pointing out the facts.

rob gregory

07-29-2003, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by The Donger:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Donger:
Too bad many funk/soul artists that got sampled don't have that mentality. Then they would rape the rappers that have been raping them. I'm just at the beginnig of the thread, but you don't know what your talking about... [/QUOTE]Just read the production credits on any hip-hop album. Maybe 2 out of every 5 samples get credited, and hopefully paid.

FYI, my friend works in music publishing (does mostly hip-hop stuff for major artists), and her boyfriend is an A&R for some major hip-hop artists. I speak to them about this shit all the time, especially cause I make beats. I know the game pretty well.

I will keep an open mind and would like to hear what you can add.

FYI, I'm not being righteous, I would do the same if I could sell my beats and get away with it. Just pointing out the facts. [/QUOTE]Donger,

I read somewhere that samples didn't have to be paid for if 1)the sample was unrecognizable? or 2)it doesn't exceed a certain length.

Do you know if this is true? Thanks

[ July 29, 2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: PhoreAyem ]

kev

07-29-2003, 04:10 PM

The Donger

07-29-2003, 04:13 PM

Did you know you have to pay $$$ even if you hum your line like someone else's melody for a line in your song?

Example, when KRS busted out with the Billy Joel thing.

still rock-n-roll to me / still tellin lies to me

kev

07-29-2003, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by The Donger:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Donger:
Too bad many funk/soul artists that got sampled don't have that mentality. Then they would rape the rappers that have been raping them. I'm just at the beginnig of the thread, but you don't know what your talking about... [/QUOTE]Just read the production credits on any hip-hop album. Maybe 2 out of every 5 samples get credited, and hopefully paid.

FYI, my friend works in music publishing (does mostly hip-hop stuff for major artists), and her boyfriend is an A&R for some major hip-hop artists. I speak to them about this shit all the time, especially cause I make beats. I know the game pretty well.

I will keep an open mind and would like to hear what you can add.

FYI, I'm not being righteous, I would do the same if I could sell my beats and get away with it. Just pointing out the facts. [/QUOTE]So when you make beats everything you make is done by scratch? Not even a hi hat is sampled?

The Donger

07-29-2003, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by IIBS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Donger:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Donger:
Too bad many funk/soul artists that got sampled don't have that mentality. Then they would rape the rappers that have been raping them. I'm just at the beginnig of the thread, but you don't know what your talking about... [/QUOTE]Just read the production credits on any hip-hop album. Maybe 2 out of every 5 samples get credited, and hopefully paid.

FYI, my friend works in music publishing (does mostly hip-hop stuff for major artists), and her boyfriend is an A&R for some major hip-hop artists. I speak to them about this shit all the time, especially cause I make beats. I know the game pretty well.

I will keep an open mind and would like to hear what you can add.

FYI, I'm not being righteous, I would do the same if I could sell my beats and get away with it. Just pointing out the facts. [/QUOTE]You're making very big generalizations, here. [/QUOTE]Sure, show me some hip-hop arists that give sample credit for every song.

kev

07-29-2003, 04:18 PM

Just b/c they're not credited doesn't mean they're not getting paid for the sample usage. Different artists demand certain things when you sample them.

The Donger

07-29-2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by IIBS:
FYI, I'm not being righteous, I would do the same if I could sell my beats and get away with it. Just pointing out the facts. So when you make beats everything you make is done by scratch? Not even a hi hat is sampled? [/QB][/QUOTE]

Read again.

I sample everything. Soemtimes straight loop jacks, sometimes completely unrecognizable chopped shit, I'll twist a sound and play it back completely differently.

I wouldn't pay a soul if I could get away with it. I know it's wrong. I never said I was holy.

My original statement was to point out that if the old sampled artists had the same "get paid & hustle" mentality towards their music, things would be much different. They wouldn't get raped anymore, and it's already happening. Mad keyboard producers making shit cause labels don't like the sample clearance drama.

Why is everyone disecting my shit? Stop going through the corn. It's just the facts. I know the game whether you want to believe it or not, I don't care at this point...

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
The cover does not mean a thing. The album (last time I looked we were talking about the music and the the packaging it came in) was not about the materialistic things on the cover. Nor was KRS, or Kane. I think this is a cop out argument and one that not only turns a blind eye to some of the questionable things said in some of the songs on all three albums, but one that also doesn't recognize that the images displayed, while maybe not indicative of the entire persona of each artist, certainly was a part of the persona of each. If they were truly the completely "conscious" artists you make them out to be, their covers would look like the cover of a dead prez or a Common album. [/QUOTE]Cop out, I don't think so. If the entire albums of the cats were all about materialistic things, then you'd have a valid argument. But right now you still don't have a leg to stand on. I believe that all my posts about this have touched on it, but I guess have to spell it out for you. Old school hip hop was about much more than materialistic things. Yes you could sit here and come up with a list of songs about material things. But then you are just nit picking. For every song by the artists that you named that has negative or materialistic lyrics I can name 3 to 5 that do not. So that is pointless.

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 04:29 PM

ummm...run dmc lived 4 blocks from me...eddie cheeba was in the nabe all the time..i saw shows at the diplomat and the fantasia and checked out kool moe dee and the L brothers up in the Bronx...hiphop and rap ALWAYS was about talking mad shit about cars money women and drugs and ya also took a chance just going to the shows...if anyone wants to talk about hiphop in its purest form that was it...no positivity themes just a party - so please stop trying to peddle this "positive" bullshit caus ei was there and i don't remember none of that...just partyin and being macho/scared ( cause ya could get ganked)

The Buddy Love Show

07-29-2003, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by The Donger:
You don't think ESG got raped? How many ****ing times have they been sampled??? Telling me to "come back to you"? I am friends with Deborah of ESG. I would think I know a little more about it than you do. She is still living in the Bronx and never saw a penny, while other cats are rocking gold. That's getting raped by hip-hop right there.

Liquid Liquid's legendary label 99 records collapsed cause of the ****ing lawsuit since they couldn't get ever paid from getting ripped off. A bunch of amazing bands on that label that forwarded a beautiful movement of music (the whole NYC No Wave thing) suddenly were all ****ed. A legendary label that helped forward a movement died. Hip-Hop didn't want to give them thier share. That's getting raped by hip-hop right there. you still aint named names....i could tell ya a few cats who got ****ed by the music industry

but this sounds personal

Huey P. Freeman

07-29-2003, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
ummm...run dmc lived 4 blocks from me...eddie cheeba was in the nabe all the time..i saw shows at the diplomat and the fantasia and checked out kool moe dee and the L brothers up in the Bronx...hiphop and rap ALWAYS was about talking mad shit about cars money women and drugs and ya also took a chance just going to the shows...if anyone wants to talk about hiphop in its purest form that was it...no positivity themes just a party - so please stop trying to peddle this "positive" bullshit caus ei was there and i don't remember none of that...just partyin and being macho/scared ( cause ya could get ganked) Really... Nothing positive? How convenient.

DJ Rated M

07-29-2003, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doug:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Let's break it down in common sense terms. You are a business that has 85% of your sales come from a certain demographic. Would you produce a product that is design to appeal mainly to the 15% of your customer base? I don't think so. record labels aren't dummies. They put out the latest trend so they can sell to the masses. so when they talk about shit that white people don't know about...whats the appeal?

the bottom line is that they make music for blacks and about blacks..our nightmares, our fantasies - the fact that whites pick up on it is a benefit...

but i have noticed all the masses of white women in the videos...can't a black girl get a hoochie role too? [/QUOTE]So Jay Z raping about his wealth is relevant to you? [/QUOTE]It's probably not relevant to the overwhelming majority of people who buy his music, white or black. He really isn't say anything that countless other "real" MCs from the old school haven't said a million times before. Boasting has always been a part of hip-hop, so that argument doesn't really seem to hold weight.

(I know I'm late to this, but anyway...) [/QUOTE]Actually it does. They were boasting about how the could rock the Mic/Party or whatever. Not rapping about the diamonds on their watch. But usually they had some conscious, positive songs on their albums as well. Talking about the black experience and not just glorifying stupid "hood" shit. [/QUOTE]When was the last time you looked at the cover of "Paid In Full" by Eric B. & Rakim? Or how about "Long Live The Kane" by Big Daddy Kane? Or how about "Criminal Minded" by BDP? You seem to make the mistake that a lot of "old" heads make when judging today's hip-hop by trying to paint everything that came before it as being "positive", "uplifting", and "nonmaterialistic". [/QUOTE]doug....

you should've heard what kats were talking about on stage @ the Rock Steady Crew's party on sat......they were talking about the difference in rap and REAL hip-hop........they kicked very valid points about doing it for the love of it and reppin the elements....stuff about not caring about the BS being played on the radio & so forth and so forth. REAL hip-hop is being repped these days(too bad a lot of kats don't get it)....remember "rap" alone is not hip-hop...i know that you know this though....

TAC

07-29-2003, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by The Donger:
[QUOTE]FYI, my friend works in music publishing (does mostly hip-hop stuff for major artists), and her boyfriend is an A&R for some major hip-hop artists. I speak to them about this shit all the time, especially cause I make beats. I know the game pretty well.

I will keep an open mind and would like to hear what you can add.

Just pointing out the facts. FYI, I know the game better than you. I still say you don't know what you're talking about.

For instance, go check up on 35 U.S.C. §107.
This sh*t was killing James Brown and hence, the coining of the term the "hook" as a result of his testimony during his law suits for infringement of his work.

Okay that's the lesson for today. For homework, I want you to research 35 U.S.C. §107 and provide me with your understanding of the statue.

Peace
TAC

TAC

07-29-2003, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
ummm...run dmc lived 4 blocks from me...eddie cheeba was in the nabe all the time..i saw shows at the diplomat and the fantasia and checked out kool moe dee and the L brothers up in the Bronx...hiphop and rap ALWAYS was about talking mad shit about cars money women and drugs and ya also took a chance just going to the shows...if anyone wants to talk about hiphop in its purest form that was it...no positivity themes just a party - so please stop trying to peddle this "positive" bullshit caus ei was there and i don't remember none of that...just partyin and being macho/scared ( cause ya could get ganked) Really... Nothing positive? How convenient. [/QUOTE]
Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
might get more shit done

major labels, book deals, speaking tours, political clout, club ownership

the impressive thing is that a lot of these cats come from humble beginnings

will to power baby Ummmm? TILT!!!!

Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand

07-29-2003, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
I for one am glad that househeads don't have the same mentality. If they did it would pervert the music just like hip hop. Hip hop, like house, is an underground music. The shit you hear on the radio and in most clubs is not hip hop, but a poor imitation. Some say with the commercialization of rap music has taken it a long way. I would agree, but in the wrong direction. The music is a joke done by a lot of step n' fetchit ass clowns (fo shizzle my nizzle). A modern day minstrel (SP?) show put on for suburban white kids. I once saw Russell Simmons on Larry King Live citing industry numbers of how 85% of rap music is bought by non minorities. Think about that the next time you bumpin 50 cent. It wasn't made for you. I can totally feel you on this. This is slave music. Hip Hop is an art, the radio rap is enslaving our children to want lifestyles that aren't real or that could lead to their demise. Radio Rap is perverted yes, there are artist that are genuine about their efforts (Dr. Dre, Russell Simmons, Puffy? Eminem, etc.) but others are just making money and making it on MTV Cribs. I like the efforts that the Hip Hop Summit makes but the industry overall ain't trying to go in that direction.

So as I said before I dislike Slave (Rap) Music, Love Hip Hop but you can keep that mess that makes it okay for our children become ballers (not b-ballers) and half-naked hoes graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

DJ Rated M

07-29-2003, 05:50 PM

Eargasm......

i know exactly where your coming from.....

speak on....speak on.........

DJ Timmy Richardson

07-29-2003, 06:09 PM

I think there is a difference between interpolation and sampling. I am quite sure you definitely have to cough up bucks for interpolation, whereas sampling has to be a certain length. For example people like Public Enemy and Kenny Dope can use a slew of samples on one track, but how would you know which was what. Don't forget, all drum machines sampled something, so if you use one who gets the credit or the money for that sample.

Brian

07-29-2003, 06:11 PM

i always attributed the success of hiphop in the area i grew up (predomninantly white suburb) to the content of the music itself combined with people's desire to live vicariously .. not so much the business mentality of those making the music

the most popular album in my high school in the late 80's was the most extreme hiphop available at the time - NWA's Straight Outta Compton. anyone who was remotely social knew all the words to every song. there was never any house music that was going to take that place, not matter how it was marketed, promoted, etc

i liked ngeso's comments about how hiphop is about a lifestyle .. it's like the music (with the help of the videos) markets and sells itself .. instead of "i can't stop humming this tune" it's "i can't stop thinking about being something i'm not"

Querck

07-29-2003, 06:12 PM

Brian

07-29-2003, 06:19 PM

hiphop isn't art? oh brother...

Dolemite73

07-29-2003, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by Brian:
hiphop isn't art? oh brother... No....TRUE hiphop is...this mainstream garbage aint.

Brian

07-29-2003, 06:21 PM

whatever, i disagree with you...

Querck

07-29-2003, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Brian:
hiphop isn't art? oh brother... Of course hip-hop is. Hip-POP (as I call it), on the other hand, is art that has become so devastated by money that it hardly retains any artistic merit.

Dolemite73

07-29-2003, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by Brian:
whatever, i disagree with you... Why?

Brian

07-29-2003, 06:30 PM

if i were to try to explain my own opinion on popular music and art it would probably turn into a 10 page essay...

i'm just always entertained when the arbiters of "art" show up.

Dolemite73

07-29-2003, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Brian:
if i were to try to explain my own opinion on popular music and art it would probably turn into a 10 page essay...

i'm just always entertained when the arbiters of "art" show up. So hiphop is not an art in your opinion?

[ July 29, 2003, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Dolemite73 ]

Brian

07-29-2003, 06:48 PM

i don't like to stray from the traditional definition of art (which includes music).

beyond that it's just a pissing match

this is getting off the topic of the thread...

Fletch

07-29-2003, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Donger:

FYI, my friend works in music publishing (does mostly hip-hop stuff for major artists), and her boyfriend is an A&R for some major hip-hop artists. I speak to them about this shit all the time, especially cause I make beats. I know the game pretty well.

I will keep an open mind and would like to hear what you can add.

Just pointing out the facts. FYI, I know the game better than you. I still say you don't know what you're talking about.

For instance, go check up on 35 U.S.C. §107.
This sh*t was killing James Brown and hence, the coining of the term the "hook" as a result of his testimony during his law suits for infringement of his work.

Okay that's the lesson for today. For homework, I want you to research 35 U.S.C. §107 and provide me with your understanding of the statue.

Peace
TAC TAC,

Excuse my non-lawyer status, but Title 35 is the patent statute, is that right? I'm asking because I couldn't find a 35 USC 107. Forgive me if I'm wrong, here.

I did, however, find Title 17, which, if I'm correct, is the copyright law. I believe that section 107 of Title 17 is the "fair use" provision. Is that correct?

If I'm correct, "fair use" of a copywritten material is that which is used for non-commercial purposes (i.e. educational, parody, etc). Is that right? Please educate.

Were the James Brown samplers using fair use as a defense against him?

By all means, shoot me down and correct me if this makes no sense. Peace.

TAC

07-29-2003, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by einnod23:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Donger:

FYI, my friend works in music publishing (does mostly hip-hop stuff for major artists), and her boyfriend is an A&R for some major hip-hop artists. I speak to them about this shit all the time, especially cause I make beats. I know the game pretty well.

I will keep an open mind and would like to hear what you can add.

Just pointing out the facts. FYI, I know the game better than you. I still say you don't know what you're talking about.

For instance, go check up on 17 U.S.C. §107.
This sh*t was killing James Brown and hence, the coining of the term the "hook" as a result of his testimony during his law suits for infringement of his work.

Okay that's the lesson for today. For homework, I want you to research 17 U.S.C. §107 and provide me with your understanding of the statue.

Peace
TAC TAC,

Excuse my non-lawyer status, but Title 35 is the patent statute, is that right? I'm asking because I couldn't find a 35 USC 107. Forgive me if I'm wrong, here.

I did, however, find Title 17, which, if I'm correct, is the copyright law. I believe that section 107 of Title 17 is the "fair use" provision. Is that correct?

If I'm correct, "fair use" of a copywritten material is that which is used for non-commercial purposes (i.e. educational, parody, etc). Is that right? Please educate.

Were the James Brown samplers using fair use as a defense against him?

By all means, shoot me down and correct me if this makes no sense. Peace. [/QUOTE]Your not wrong, and it makes lots of sense. It was a trick question to see if anyone was paying attention. In particular Mr. Donger himself. ;)

Yes, you are correct. 17 U.S.C. §107 is section that provides for a "fair use" defense to an allegation of infringement.

Now check your PM for the answer!

Peace
TAC

The Donger

07-30-2003, 07:25 AM

Does hip-hop have to be high art for you to enjoy it? You just can't like it cause it's fun and makes you wanna dance?

I love Jay-Z, Missy and 50 Cent, and I love MURS, Aesop Rock, El-P, RJD2, etc... all for different reasons. Sometimes I wanna disect lyrics and slip into an abstract mood. Sometimes I just wanna drink and feel myself and get close to a female at the party and have a good time. It's all Hip-Hop, some heads will just never understand that.

I understand what you are saying about the radio stuff. You are talking to some of us like we don't "get" what some of you are saying, but we do. I feel like some of you just don't "get" the grand scope of hip-hop.

The Donger

07-30-2003, 07:39 AM

But back to the thread topic, I don't know if the whole "Get Rich or Die Trying" mentality is meant for everybody. There is a lot of self destructive shit going on in hip-hop that I wouldn't want to see in House. Em on 50's album: "Mix up some BIG and some Pac..."

I do give props to entreprenuers like Russell Simmons, but I wouldn't call that a hip-hop mentality. It's just called business.

FYI, It's a big generalization to make Markbe. There is far from one hip-hop mentality, although the "Get Rich or Die Trying" mentality is what's considered hot right now. Definatley a lot more opinions in the game...

Doug

07-30-2003, 08:08 AM

MusicFilter

07-30-2003, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by The Donger:
Too bad many funk/soul artists that got sampled don't have that mentality. Then they would rape the rappers that have been raping them. Amen brother!

The Donger

07-30-2003, 08:24 AM

For the heads that aren't really in touch with the sample raping (which again I admit to being a part of on an unproffesinal level) and claim it's just "urban legend", then please explain to me why there is such an uproar from so many hip-hop producers due to sample source re-issues and comps that say things like "as sampled by Pete Rock, DITC, etc...". Why do you have producers on albums threatening comp makers for "snitching on the backs of albums"???

The Donger

07-30-2003, 08:28 AM

Donger's "Building up rather than tearing down" moment of the day:

For heads that don't know alot about sample sources and would like to learn more about the whole culture of it all check this old site out: http://www.worldofbeats.com/old_site/

I still get e-mails from him although he stopped maintaining the site a few years ago.

P.S. Click on old shit, then vol. 2, good interview with one of my favorites, Diamond D.

[ July 30, 2003, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: The Donger ]

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
ummm...run dmc lived 4 blocks from me...eddie cheeba was in the nabe all the time..i saw shows at the diplomat and the fantasia and checked out kool moe dee and the L brothers up in the Bronx...hiphop and rap ALWAYS was about talking mad shit about cars money women and drugs and ya also took a chance just going to the shows...if anyone wants to talk about hiphop in its purest form that was it...no positivity themes just a party - so please stop trying to peddle this "positive" bullshit caus ei was there and i don't remember none of that...just partyin and being macho/scared ( cause ya could get ganked) Really... Nothing positive? How convenient. [/QUOTE]
Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
might get more shit done

major labels, book deals, speaking tours, political clout, club ownership

the impressive thing is that a lot of these cats come from humble beginnings

will to power baby Ummmm? TILT!!!! [/QUOTE]which was the point of this whole thread...its interesting to see how people wanted to take it to the negative....the fact is that the hiphop scene is making real power moves and are a highly influential part of the US culture...all through a shared will to overcome obstacles and humble (read ghetto and black ) origins and attain POWER

its always nice to see people address the issues, but then again deriding that scene helps us feel more strongly about our own

we should all meet at the ofices of strictly rhythm to discuss the weaknesses of the hiphop scene

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The Donger

07-30-2003, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
....the fact is that the hiphop scene is making real power moves and are a highly influential part of the US culture...all through a shared will to overcome obstacles and humble (read ghetto and black ) origins and attain POWER
Definately inspiring.

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
I for one am glad that househeads don't have the same mentality. If they did it would pervert the music just like hip hop. Hip hop, like house, is an underground music. The shit you hear on the radio and in most clubs is not hip hop, but a poor imitation. Some say with the commercialization of rap music has taken it a long way. I would agree, but in the wrong direction. The music is a joke done by a lot of step n' fetchit ass clowns (fo shizzle my nizzle). A modern day minstrel (SP?) show put on for suburban white kids. I once saw Russell Simmons on Larry King Live citing industry numbers of how 85% of rap music is bought by non minorities. Think about that the next time you bumpin 50 cent. It wasn't made for you. I can totally feel you on this. This is slave music. Hip Hop is an art, the radio rap is enslaving our children to want lifestyles that aren't real or that could lead to their demise. Radio Rap is perverted yes, there are artist that are genuine about their efforts (Dr. Dre, Russell Simmons, Puffy? Eminem, etc.) but others are just making money and making it on MTV Cribs. I like the efforts that the Hip Hop Summit makes but the industry overall ain't trying to go in that direction.

So as I said before I dislike Slave (Rap) Music, Love Hip Hop but you can keep that mess that makes it okay for our children become ballers (not b-ballers) and half-naked hoes graemlins/jpshakehead.gif [/QUOTE]this is soo true because black minds are weak....see white people realize that eminem, dynasty, falcon crest, black sabbath, gwar and all the other fantasy out there is just that - fantasy....but we po black folk just believe everything we see and hear as gospel...sweet lord deliver us from bondage

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by The Donger:
Does hip-hop have to be high art for you to enjoy it? You just can't like it cause it's fun and makes you wanna dance?

I love Jay-Z, Missy and 50 Cent, and I love MURS, Aesop Rock, El-P, RJD2, etc... all for different reasons. Sometimes I wanna disect lyrics and slip into an abstract mood. Sometimes I just wanna drink and feel myself and get close to a female at the party and have a good time. It's all Hip-Hop, some heads will just never understand that.

I understand what you are saying about the radio stuff. You are talking to some of us like we don't "get" what some of you are saying, but we do. I feel like some of you just don't "get" the grand scope of hip-hop. "the grand scope" - now you're talking

if they can do it why not we who hold that scene in such disdain as being "inferior"

D J 1 3 8

07-30-2003, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
which was the point of this whole thread...its interesting to see how people wanted to take it to the negative....the fact is that the hiphop scene is making real power moves and are a highly influential part of the US culture...all through a shared will to overcome obstacles and humble (read ghetto and black ) origins and attain POWER

its always nice to see people address the issues, but then again deriding that scene helps us feel more strongly about our own

we should all meet at the ofices of strictly rhythm to discuss the weaknesses of the hiphop scene

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Magus

Though this thread did get wildly off-topic into defining good and bad hip hop, old VS new, etc. I would still be interested to hear your rebuttal to the original point of bringing up the negative aspects of hip hop.

To paraphrase: Sure there are some people making lots of money and gaining power, but at what cost to the black community?

Bill Blake

07-30-2003, 09:28 AM

Wait, but who doesn’t have a ‘Hip Hop’ mentality?

Thinking terms of ‘rap music’ and ‘dance music’.

Who makes more money?

Eminem or Moby?

And just how are:

Paul Oakenfold
Sasha
Digweed
Fatboy Slim
Basement Jaxx

…Doing money wise?

Especially compared to a lot of rappers?

And as far as house and hip hop, how much is there a difference between a Nelle and a Sasha?

Both seem to be doing alright by me?

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by DJ 138:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
which was the point of this whole thread...its interesting to see how people wanted to take it to the negative....the fact is that the hiphop scene is making real power moves and are a highly influential part of the US culture...all through a shared will to overcome obstacles and humble (read ghetto and black ) origins and attain POWER

its always nice to see people address the issues, but then again deriding that scene helps us feel more strongly about our own

we should all meet at the ofices of strictly rhythm to discuss the weaknesses of the hiphop scene

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Magus

Though this thread did get wildly off-topic into defining good and bad hip hop, old VS new, etc. I would still be interested to hear your rebuttal to the original point of bringing up the negative aspects of hip hop.

To paraphrase: Sure there are some people making lots of money and gaining power, but at what cost to the black community? [/QUOTE]Money is the root of all evil...yes and no

the infiltration of money into any system can be caustic. The things people do to get money are insane.

At what cost to the community?..Theres the rub. I don't think the Medicis, or the Rothschilds or the Morgans or Pierreponts or the Kennedys concerned themselves with such ffairs because they all realized that money is POWER and power is the name of the game. All the above cited families did things beyond the pale that called into question their "communities"..Medicis were banned from Florence ( or was it Venice), Rothschilds were money lending Jews in an anti-semitic Europe (pound of flesh) Pierreponts and Morgans were considered robber barons and the Kennedys were alleged smugglers ( and Irish were just crawling up from being considered ni--ers). What these families all realized is that money paved the way to cultural, economic and political power.

I can't worry about the black "community" as most will never get it anyway and will have to be led to a new place against there will (as with all communities)

its not easy being supermen

btw...check out the profile of Michael "Harry O" Harris in the movie Welcome to Deathrow...dirty money legitimizes a lot of things and even starts movements

kev

07-30-2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by The Donger:
I love Jay-Z, Missy and 50 Cent, and I love MURS, Aesop Rock, El-P, RJD2, etc... all for different reasons. Sometimes I wanna disect lyrics and slip into an abstract mood. Sometimes I just wanna drink and feel myself and get close to a female at the party and have a good time. It's all Hip-Hop, some heads will just never understand that.

I understand what you are saying about the radio stuff. You are talking to some of us like we don't "get" what some of you are saying, but we do. I feel like some of you just don't "get" the grand scope of hip-hop. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

kev

07-30-2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by The Donger:
For the heads that aren't really in touch with the sample raping (which again I admit to being a part of on an unproffesinal level) and claim it's just "urban legend", then please explain to me why there is such an uproar from so many hip-hop producers due to sample source re-issues and comps that say things like "as sampled by Pete Rock, DITC, etc...". Why do you have producers on albums threatening comp makers for "snitching on the backs of albums"??? I completely understand where you're coming from, but my whole arguement is your usage of the word rape. Are these sampled artists really getting raped when it seems that some of them have actually financially and professionally benefitted from being sampled? I'm not discrediting everything you're saying. I'm just letting people see the other side of the coin.

D J 1 3 8

07-30-2003, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
its not easy being supermen
There you go with that Nietsze shit again. Just remember, he was a fvcking asshole.

Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand

07-30-2003, 10:41 AM

Money is the root of all evil...yes and no The love of money is the root of evil. There is nothing wrong with having money, making money and spending money. It's how it's used, misused, who had to get stepped on for it and whose blood had to be shed for it.

Huey P. Freeman

07-30-2003, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by The Donger:
Does hip-hop have to be high art for you to enjoy it? You just can't like it cause it's fun and makes you wanna dance?

I love Jay-Z, Missy and 50 Cent, and I love MURS, Aesop Rock, El-P, RJD2, etc... all for different reasons. Sometimes I wanna disect lyrics and slip into an abstract mood. Sometimes I just wanna drink and feel myself and get close to a female at the party and have a good time. It's all Hip-Hop, some heads will just never understand that.

I understand what you are saying about the radio stuff. You are talking to some of us like we don't "get" what some of you are saying, but we do. I feel like some of you just don't "get" the grand scope of hip-hop. There is a big difference between the the first and second group of rappers you named. Jay Z,50 cent, and missy are pop music not hip hop. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with liking/listening to those cats, but call a spade a spade. They are no more hip hop than trance/euro/progressive is house. They may have the same roots, but are completely different.

kev

07-30-2003, 10:49 AM

Just b/c someone is rapping does that make it hip hop?

Huey P. Freeman

07-30-2003, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
ummm...run dmc lived 4 blocks from me...eddie cheeba was in the nabe all the time..i saw shows at the diplomat and the fantasia and checked out kool moe dee and the L brothers up in the Bronx...hiphop and rap ALWAYS was about talking mad shit about cars money women and drugs and ya also took a chance just going to the shows...if anyone wants to talk about hiphop in its purest form that was it...no positivity themes just a party - so please stop trying to peddle this "positive" bullshit caus ei was there and i don't remember none of that...just partyin and being macho/scared ( cause ya could get ganked) Really... Nothing positive? How convenient. [/QUOTE]
Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
might get more shit done

major labels, book deals, speaking tours, political clout, club ownership

the impressive thing is that a lot of these cats come from humble beginnings

will to power baby Ummmm? TILT!!!! [/QUOTE]which was the point of this whole thread...its interesting to see how people wanted to take it to the negative....the fact is that the hiphop scene is making real power moves and are a highly influential part of the US culture...all through a shared will to overcome obstacles and humble (read ghetto and black ) origins and attain POWER

its always nice to see people address the issues, but then again deriding that scene helps us feel more strongly about our own

we should all meet at the ofices of strictly rhythm to discuss the weaknesses of the hiphop scene

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA [/QUOTE]Actually I support the HIPHOP scene. But let's make the distiction between hiphop and pop music. The ones making all those moves you are talking about ARE NOT HIPHOP. Just because someone is rhyming over a beat does not make it hiphop. If that were the case all music, even country could be considered hiphop.

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by DJ 138:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
its not easy being supermen
There you go with that Nietsze shit again. Just remember, he was a fvcking asshole. [/QUOTE]why was he an asshole?

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
ummm...run dmc lived 4 blocks from me...eddie cheeba was in the nabe all the time..i saw shows at the diplomat and the fantasia and checked out kool moe dee and the L brothers up in the Bronx...hiphop and rap ALWAYS was about talking mad shit about cars money women and drugs and ya also took a chance just going to the shows...if anyone wants to talk about hiphop in its purest form that was it...no positivity themes just a party - so please stop trying to peddle this "positive" bullshit caus ei was there and i don't remember none of that...just partyin and being macho/scared ( cause ya could get ganked) Really... Nothing positive? How convenient. [/QUOTE]
Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
might get more shit done

major labels, book deals, speaking tours, political clout, club ownership

the impressive thing is that a lot of these cats come from humble beginnings

will to power baby Ummmm? TILT!!!! [/QUOTE]which was the point of this whole thread...its interesting to see how people wanted to take it to the negative....the fact is that the hiphop scene is making real power moves and are a highly influential part of the US culture...all through a shared will to overcome obstacles and humble (read ghetto and black ) origins and attain POWER

its always nice to see people address the issues, but then again deriding that scene helps us feel more strongly about our own

we should all meet at the ofices of strictly rhythm to discuss the weaknesses of the hiphop scene

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA [/QUOTE]Actually I support the HIPHOP scene. But let's make the distiction between hiphop and pop music. The ones making all those moves you are talking about ARE NOT HIPHOP. Just because someone is rhyming over a beat does not make it hiphop. If that were the case all music, even country could be considered hiphop. [/QUOTE]who decides that they are not hiphop..you?..me?..the International Association of pipefitters and rappers?..the AFL - CIO?..who?

just because they don't fit into your definition of what pure hiphop is doesn't make it not so

was Babe Ruth hiphop?
how about Aerosmith?
how about Kraftwerk?
How about The Last Poets?

The great thing about TRUE hiphop culture was that it had no boundaries and your willingness to impose such limits is its complete antithesis

TAC

07-30-2003, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
[QUOTE]The love of money is the root of evil. There is nothing wrong with having money, making money and spending money. It's how it's used, misused, who had to get stepped on for it and whose blood had to be shed for it. But, isn't this the American way?

Martin Red

07-30-2003, 11:08 AM

Actions films sell out more than real interesting true stories

that's human nature, it may suck but..... people would prefere big breasted girls, guns and mother ****er lyrics over a person sitting at a piano telling a story.

Which will be a bigger seller ?

Terminator 3
or
Rabbit proof Fence

Commercial Hip Hop
or
House, (perhaps deep)

"..there it is"

A recession may be the only thing that changes that.
(Marketing guy: - yeah, the I have no money dollar. Huge dollar in the middle east at the moment for the anger $ market also.....)

[ July 30, 2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

TAD

07-30-2003, 11:09 AM

Bill Blake

07-30-2003, 11:10 AM

Bullshit

Evil has been around a lot longer than money or the love of it.

Money is just a tool used for humans to trade goods and services....nothing more.

kev

07-30-2003, 11:10 AM

You forgot to mention the Chicago Bears and that dude from the sitcom "Blossom". They both released rap records. Would you consider that hip hop as well?

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
its not easy being supermen
There you go with that Nietsze shit again. Just remember, he was a fvcking asshole. [/QUOTE]why was he an asshole? [/QUOTE]before you step into a potentially embarrasing morass here is a short list of people DIRECTLY influenced by Nietszche in a substantial way
names you should know:
Albert Camus
Isadora Duncan
Sigmund Freud
Herman Hesse
Carl Jung
Martin Heidegger
Gustav Mahler
Thomas Mann
Rainer Maris Rilke
Jean paul Sartre
George Bernard Shaw

the man is generally considered to be one of the giants of modern day thought and as you can see his influence was felt in art, music, literature, dance and philosophy

need i say more

Bill Blake

07-30-2003, 11:14 AM

Nietzsche’s moral argument was that there are two types of morality, the slave morality and the master morality.

If I remember correctly he argued that it was better to have the master morality.

He was wrong in that a proper moral structure, would be one were no man is a slave and no man is a master of slaves.

I.e., That a man is only the master of himself.

Now answer my damn question:

Who makes more money?

Eminem or Moby?

[ July 30, 2003, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Jamie Lennox ]

Huey P. Freeman

07-30-2003, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
I for one am glad that househeads don't have the same mentality. If they did it would pervert the music just like hip hop. Hip hop, like house, is an underground music. The shit you hear on the radio and in most clubs is not hip hop, but a poor imitation. Some say with the commercialization of rap music has taken it a long way. I would agree, but in the wrong direction. The music is a joke done by a lot of step n' fetchit ass clowns (fo shizzle my nizzle). A modern day minstrel (SP?) show put on for suburban white kids. I once saw Russell Simmons on Larry King Live citing industry numbers of how 85% of rap music is bought by non minorities. Think about that the next time you bumpin 50 cent. It wasn't made for you. I can totally feel you on this. This is slave music. Hip Hop is an art, the radio rap is enslaving our children to want lifestyles that aren't real or that could lead to their demise. Radio Rap is perverted yes, there are artist that are genuine about their efforts (Dr. Dre, Russell Simmons, Puffy? Eminem, etc.) but others are just making money and making it on MTV Cribs. I like the efforts that the Hip Hop Summit makes but the industry overall ain't trying to go in that direction.

So as I said before I dislike Slave (Rap) Music, Love Hip Hop but you can keep that mess that makes it okay for our children become ballers (not b-ballers) and half-naked hoes graemlins/jpshakehead.gif [/QUOTE]this is soo true because black minds are weak....see white people realize that eminem, dynasty, falcon crest, black sabbath, gwar and all the other fantasy out there is just that - fantasy....but we po black folk just believe everything we see and hear as gospel...sweet lord deliver us from bondage [/QUOTE]Now that Magus, I can completely agree with.

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
its not easy being supermen
There you go with that Nietsze shit again. Just remember, he was a fvcking asshole. [/QUOTE]why was he an asshole? [/QUOTE]well he was kinda messed up, sex crazed coke head. i've read some stuff about him that wasn't pleasant. he also believed in natural selection, a view hitler adopted. i'm not much into freud, existentialism blah blah blah. [/QUOTE]Darwin also believed in natural election....

Hitler actually bastardized his philosophy...but as proven by Jim Jones anything can be perverted to suit your own ends......natural selection and systematic extermination are two completely different concepts

Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand

07-30-2003, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:

The love of money is the root of evil. There is nothing wrong with having money, making money and spending money. It's how it's used, misused, who had to get stepped on for it and whose blood had to be shed for it. But, isn't this the American way? Yep non other yet it's so effective other countries have patterned after America as well ;)

Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand

07-30-2003, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Bullshit

Evil has been around a lot longer than money or the love of it.

Money is just a tool used for humans to trade goods and services....nothing more. Right :rolleyes: and countries are fighting over it because they want more money to just trade goods and services. Yep it's nothing more considering that the US has a trillion dollar deficit. But it's nothing :rolleyes:

Bill Blake

07-30-2003, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
its not easy being supermen
There you go with that Nietsze shit again. Just remember, he was a fvcking asshole. [/QUOTE]why was he an asshole? [/QUOTE]well he was kinda messed up, sex crazed coke head. i've read some stuff about him that wasn't pleasant. he also believed in natural selection, a view hitler adopted. i'm not much into freud, existentialism blah blah blah. [/QUOTE]Darwin also believed in natural election....

Hitler actually bastardized his philosophy...but as proven by Jim Jones anything can be perverted to suit your own ends......natural selection and systematic extermination are two completely different concepts [/QUOTE]Yea 138 that arguement aint gonna cut it.

And Hitler didnt believe in Natural selection.

Natural seclection well at work for the human species=Hitler dead.

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Nietzsche’s moral argument was that there are two types of morality, the slave morality and the master morality.

If I remember correctly he argued that it was better to have the master morality.

He was wrong in that a proper moral structure, would be one were no man is a slave and no man is a master of slaves.

I.e., That a man is only the master of himself.

Now answer my damn question:

Who makes more money?

Eminem or Moby? He actually said that the master morality is that of the man who creates his own morality and rules himself not subject to nature or laws...

the slave morality was the obeisance to "nature" and natural laws ( for example aristocracy and the divine right of kings).

these arguments could be used to justify anarchy if one chose to

Huey P. Freeman

07-30-2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by IIBS:
You forgot to mention the Chicago Bears and that dude from the sitcom "Blossom". They both released rap records. Would you consider that hip hop as well? I would love for Magus to answer this one.

Bill Blake

07-30-2003, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Bullshit

Evil has been around a lot longer than money or the love of it.

Money is just a tool used for humans to trade goods and services....nothing more. Right :rolleyes: and countries are fighting over it because they want more money to just trade goods and services. Yep it's nothing more considering that the US has a trillion dollar deficit. But it's nothing :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]Right it is.

You said the love of money is the root of evil.

If you got rid of money Evil would still be here.

You people should think more before you aspouse such silly generalizations.

Root of evil is a big term amd evils 'root' is quite a bit more of a complex philosophical problem than your brilliant little treatise.

I can think of fifty million things people have killed, and fought over aside form money...that being the case money cannot be 'the root' of evil.

[ July 30, 2003, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Jamie Lennox ]

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
You forgot to mention the Chicago Bears and that dude from the sitcom "Blossom". They both released rap records. Would you consider that hip hop as well? I would love for Magus to answer this one. [/QUOTE]yes

Bill Blake

07-30-2003, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Nietzsche’s moral argument was that there are two types of morality, the slave morality and the master morality.

If I remember correctly he argued that it was better to have the master morality.

He was wrong in that a proper moral structure, would be one were no man is a slave and no man is a master of slaves.

I.e., That a man is only the master of himself.

Now answer my damn question:

Who makes more money?

Eminem or Moby? He actually said that the master morality is that of the man who creates his own morality and rules himself not subject to nature or laws...

the slave morality was the obeisance to "nature" and natural laws ( for example aristocracy and the divine right of kings).

these arguments could be used to justify anarchy if one chose to [/QUOTE]Well no because a man that rules himself not subject to 'laws' like the individual rights of all men would be an inferior morality to the one that is principle too laws that protect each and every mans individual liberty.

Not to mention, no man can escape the laws of nature.

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 11:27 AM

Here is one view of master and slave morality

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~bac/DR/ethics/master_morality.php

Bill Blake

07-30-2003, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
Here is one view of master and slave morality

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~bac/DR/ethics/master_morality.php Its much more fun for me to discuss this than rap music.

Huey P. Freeman

07-30-2003, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
You forgot to mention the Chicago Bears and that dude from the sitcom "Blossom". They both released rap records. Would you consider that hip hop as well? I would love for Magus to answer this one. [/QUOTE]yes [/QUOTE]That is a ****ing joke. You have got to be kidding me. If you truly believe that then you have no concept of what hiphop is.

[ July 30, 2003, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Eargasm ]

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Nietzsche’s moral argument was that there are two types of morality, the slave morality and the master morality.

If I remember correctly he argued that it was better to have the master morality.

He was wrong in that a proper moral structure, would be one were no man is a slave and no man is a master of slaves.

I.e., That a man is only the master of himself.

Now answer my damn question:

Who makes more money?

Eminem or Moby? He actually said that the master morality is that of the man who creates his own morality and rules himself not subject to nature or laws...

the slave morality was the obeisance to "nature" and natural laws ( for example aristocracy and the divine right of kings).

these arguments could be used to justify anarchy if one chose to [/QUOTE]Well no because a man that rules himself not subject to 'laws' like the individual rights of all men would be an inferior morality to the one that is principle too laws that protect each and every mans individual liberty.

Not to mention, no man can escape the laws of nature. [/QUOTE]You need to go back and reread Nietszche ( whos name i never spell the same twice)

His rebellion against Natural law is why he wrote "God is Dead"

Secondly, their is no inferior or superior morality..he only states that some people create their own morality and are unsubjugated by the laws of others including the state and Nature ( or God, chance, luck, karma)...these people tend to be the ones who create and lead...for more information on a Freudian view of their relationship to the common man i would suggest you read Freuds "Civilization and its Discontents"

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
You forgot to mention the Chicago Bears and that dude from the sitcom "Blossom". They both released rap records. Would you consider that hip hop as well? I would love for Magus to answer this one. [/QUOTE]yes [/QUOTE]That is a ****ing joke. You have got to be kidding me. If you truly believe that then you have no concept of what hiphop is. [/QUOTE]You can make anything hihop..thats its beauty..in the raw form did those to records suck..yes...in the hands of someone with vision those joints are as hiphop as it gets...but i don't have your "vision"

ya see, back then we didn't have message boards and peeps telling us what to play and what is cool and what is hiphop..we made it up as we went along

was anything on the Jazzmatazz albums hiphop?..but thats a straight hiphop album

for more insights into what i'm saying check the Bomb Squad or Andy Caldwells "the Document" or Cut Chemist

btw, since you can define hiphop please do so...as for me i'll stick with the ideas of the creators and put it ALL in the pot

DJ Rated M

07-30-2003, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TAC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
ummm...run dmc lived 4 blocks from me...eddie cheeba was in the nabe all the time..i saw shows at the diplomat and the fantasia and checked out kool moe dee and the L brothers up in the Bronx...hiphop and rap ALWAYS was about talking mad shit about cars money women and drugs and ya also took a chance just going to the shows...if anyone wants to talk about hiphop in its purest form that was it...no positivity themes just a party - so please stop trying to peddle this "positive" bullshit caus ei was there and i don't remember none of that...just partyin and being macho/scared ( cause ya could get ganked) Really... Nothing positive? How convenient. [/QUOTE]
Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
might get more shit done

major labels, book deals, speaking tours, political clout, club ownership

the impressive thing is that a lot of these cats come from humble beginnings

will to power baby Ummmm? TILT!!!! [/QUOTE]which was the point of this whole thread...its interesting to see how people wanted to take it to the negative....the fact is that the hiphop scene is making real power moves and are a highly influential part of the US culture...all through a shared will to overcome obstacles and humble (read ghetto and black ) origins and attain POWER

its always nice to see people address the issues, but then again deriding that scene helps us feel more strongly about our own

we should all meet at the ofices of strictly rhythm to discuss the weaknesses of the hiphop scene

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA [/QUOTE]Actually I support the HIPHOP scene. But let's make the distiction between hiphop and pop music. The ones making all those moves you are talking about ARE NOT HIPHOP. Just because someone is rhyming over a beat does not make it hiphop. If that were the case all music, even country could be considered hiphop. [/QUOTE]who decides that they are not hiphop..you?..me?..the International Association of pipefitters and rappers?..the AFL - CIO?..who?

just because they don't fit into your definition of what pure hiphop is doesn't make it not so

was Babe Ruth hiphop?
how about Aerosmith?
how about Kraftwerk?
How about The Last Poets?

The great thing about TRUE hiphop culture was that it had no boundaries and your willingness to impose such limits is its complete antithesis [/QUOTE]"Babe Ruth" is indeed Hip-Hop........a huge anthem for the B-Boys(another element)

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
Here is one view of master and slave morality

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~bac/DR/ethics/master_morality.php Its much more fun for me to discuss this than rap music. [/QUOTE]especially when cats trip on the semantics...rap was the verbal artform involved with the hiphop scene - which in itself was an urban stew with a myriad of influences..two other integral parts of the scene were the dj and the graffitist = music, wordsmithry and art

a few hiphop icons
Bambataa
Basquiat
Fab Five Freddie
Andy Warhol
Keith Haring
Kraftwerk
the Roxy

....ah why bother...ask Russell Simmons

kev

07-30-2003, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
[QUOTE]for more insights into what i'm saying check the Bomb Squad or Andy Caldwells "the Document" or Cut ChemistDon't want to be all nit picky and shit, but I believe you're thinking of a different Andy.

DJ Rated M

07-30-2003, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
Here is one view of master and slave morality

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~bac/DR/ethics/master_morality.php Its much more fun for me to discuss this than rap music. [/QUOTE]especially when cats trip on the semantics...rap was the verbal artform involved with the hiphop scene - which in itself was an urban stew with a myriad of influences..two other integral parts of the scene were the dj and the graffitist = music, wordsmithry and art

a few hiphop icons
Bambataa
Basquiat
Fab Five Freddie
Andy Warhol
Keith Haring
Kraftwerk
the Roxy

....ah why bother...ask Russell Simmons [/QUOTE]you still forgot the b-boy...........and where's Kool Herc??? the ORIGINATOR of it all....

Bill Blake

07-30-2003, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
You need to go back and reread Nietszche ( whos name i never spell the same twice)

His rebellion against Natural law is why he wrote "God is Dead"

Secondly, their is no inferior or superior morality..he only states that some people create their own morality and are unsubjugated by the laws of others including the state and Nature ( or God, chance, luck, karma)...these people tend to be the ones who create and lead...for more information on a Freudian view of their relationship to the common man i would suggest you read Freuds "Civilization and its Discontents" Perhaps its lost in the translation and if not I would assume that he is using the term ‘Nature’ in a more metaphorical way than what it truly means in objective science.

If you view human history at any point in history you will discover that there have always been masters and slaves, whether literally through slavery, or through the rulings of an aristocracy. What Nietzsche said was that the master moralist creates his own morals for himself, and no one else. He does not conform to nature, he makes nature conform to him.

Notice this passage.

The morality that governs the idea of individual rights and freedom is designed to eliminate the historical trend of ‘masters and slaves’ and aristocracy in that all men are ascribed the same rights which eliminates masters and slaves and the aristocracy has no more rights than the lowest man on the totem pole.

The notion of creating one’s ‘own morals’ is a little bit tricky. First the question has to be answered as to whether or not ethics as a science is subjective or objective and consider that morality is the science of human conduct. Does it not seem odd that since we are all human, that there are some guiding principles based on our nature that would take precedence over the notion of separate subjective moralities?

I think the importance of his argument is that he argues for ‘self actualization’ and that one cannot let the tyranny, the misgivings or unfortunate circumstances that we may find ourselves in become roadblocks to our pursuits.

This I agree with but I don’t think it suits well in the context used and under the guise of a ‘morality’.

The Donger

07-30-2003, 12:03 PM

http://www.musthear.com/art/skullsnaps.gif

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by DJ Rated M:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
Here is one view of master and slave morality

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~bac/DR/ethics/master_morality.php Its much more fun for me to discuss this than rap music. [/QUOTE]especially when cats trip on the semantics...rap was the verbal artform involved with the hiphop scene - which in itself was an urban stew with a myriad of influences..two other integral parts of the scene were the dj and the graffitist = music, wordsmithry and art

a few hiphop icons
Bambataa
Basquiat
Fab Five Freddie
Andy Warhol
Keith Haring
Kraftwerk
the Roxy

....ah why bother...ask Russell Simmons [/QUOTE]you still forgot the b-boy...........and where's Kool Herc??? the ORIGINATOR of it all.... [/QUOTE]ten lashes with a wet noodle for me..you are right on - i excluded the dancer and the father of it all

as you can see TRUE HIPHOP was a stew of influences all under one roof..it was the construction of a movement from all the many influences of urban living

Huey P. Freeman

07-30-2003, 12:07 PM

D J 1 3 8

07-30-2003, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
its not easy being supermen
There you go with that Nietsze shit again. Just remember, he was a fvcking asshole. [/QUOTE]why was he an asshole? [/QUOTE]well he was kinda messed up, sex crazed coke head. i've read some stuff about him that wasn't pleasant. he also believed in natural selection, a view hitler adopted. i'm not much into freud, existentialism blah blah blah. [/QUOTE]Darwin also believed in natural election....

Hitler actually bastardized his philosophy...but as proven by Jim Jones anything can be perverted to suit your own ends......natural selection and systematic extermination are two completely different concepts [/QUOTE]Yea 138 that arguement aint gonna cut it.

And Hitler didnt believe in Natural selection.

Natural seclection well at work for the human species=Hitler dead. [/QUOTE]Yo, that wasn't me that responded with the natural selection thing.

I'm just saying, from what I've read, the guy just seemed like an asshole. On the real, I was actually mentioning this just as a joke. I am well aware that he is an influential thinker, though I haven't read anything by him since I was 14. And I'm not even trying to argue for or against any of his theories. I'm just saying that, from what I've read, I don't think I would invite him over to smoke a blunt. Egotistical assholes like him bore the hell out of me.

Though I do like this quote:

"In heaven all the interesting people are missing."

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
You need to go back and reread Nietszche ( whos name i never spell the same twice)

His rebellion against Natural law is why he wrote "God is Dead"

Secondly, their is no inferior or superior morality..he only states that some people create their own morality and are unsubjugated by the laws of others including the state and Nature ( or God, chance, luck, karma)...these people tend to be the ones who create and lead...for more information on a Freudian view of their relationship to the common man i would suggest you read Freuds "Civilization and its Discontents" Perhaps its lost in the translation and if not I would assume that he is using the term ‘Nature’ in a more metaphorical way than what it truly means in objective science.

If you view human history at any point in history you will discover that there have always been masters and slaves, whether literally through slavery, or through the rulings of an aristocracy. What Nietzsche said was that the master moralist creates his own morals for himself, and no one else. He does not conform to nature, he makes nature conform to him.

Notice this passage.

The morality that governs the idea of individual rights and freedom is designed to eliminate the historical trend of ‘masters and slaves’ and aristocracy in that all men are ascribed the same rights which eliminates masters and slaves and the aristocracy has no more rights than the lowest man on the totem pole.

The notion of creating one’s ‘own morals’ is a little bit tricky. First the question has to be answered as to whether or not ethics as a science is subjective or objective and consider that morality is the science of human conduct. Does it not seem odd that since we are all human, that there are some guiding principles based on our nature that would take precedence over the notion of separate subjective moralities?

I think the importance of his argument is that he argues for ‘self actualization’ and that one cannot let the tyranny, the misgivings or unfortunate circumstances that we may find ourselves in become roadblocks to our pursuits.

This I agree with but I don’t think it suits well in the context used and under the guise of a ‘morality’. [/QUOTE]Actually the creation of ones own morality is pretty straight forward...am i not the The Lord high MucketyMuck of the Church of Universal Truth (as i see it)
I decide what is right and wrong..not the state not God but myself...the only thing that keeps such a person from destroying all of those around him is that it is not beneficial to be a destroyer but to create...so this person tends to gravitate towards leadership roles...the only defense that the common man has against such a personality type is the idea that Freud mentions of the superego (and in the social context - the state) which imposes restrictions against this person which protect the weak

its interesting to note that we denote said persons as psychopaths or sociopaths in order to tie malignant behavior with disdain for social mores

Think of the great men of our time...Clinton, Schwarzenegger, Hitler, Churchill, Hemingway, Roosevelt, Trump...all could probably be cosidered sociopaths..some were evil some were not..all are charismatic and despised for their strength

you see...i've been logically consistent ALL along - get my drift

but what do i know, i'm insane

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
You forgot to mention the Chicago Bears and that dude from the sitcom "Blossom". They both released rap records. Would you consider that hip hop as well? I would love for Magus to answer this one. [/QUOTE]yes [/QUOTE]That is a ****ing joke. You have got to be kidding me. If you truly believe that then you have no concept of what hiphop is. [/QUOTE]You can make anything hihop..thats its beauty..in the raw form did those to records suck..yes...in the hands of someone with vision those joints are as hiphop as it gets...but i don't have your "vision"

ya see, back then we didn't have message boards and peeps telling us what to play and what is cool and what is hiphop..we made it up as we went along

was anything on the Jazzmatazz albums hiphop?..but thats a straight hiphop album

for more insights into what i'm saying check the Bomb Squad or Andy Caldwells "the Document" or Cut Chemist

btw, since you can define hiphop please do so...as for me i'll stick with the ideas of the creators and put it ALL in the pot [/QUOTE]I never told ya what to play slick. Play what ever you want. That is the beauty of music, there is all types. But keep your "hiphop mentality" out of house music. Because just like I said in my first post, that mentality ruined a good thing. You can believe whatever you want to be hiphop. That is your prerogative. Believe in santa clause, the easter bunny, WMD in Iraq I really don't care. All I will take away from this thread is you don't know what hiphop is. That's ok though, you are in good company. Most people don't. [/QUOTE]"slick"???

as i said before what makes you the arbiter of anything?

oh thats right website ( and probably real life) anonymity...my bad

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 12:28 PM

btw...house used to be hiphop...then all the nerdy lil trainspotting labelers moved in with their puritanism and ****ed the whole thing up...one of your IDOLS was hiphop ( C is for Cookie is a b-boy classic)...i won't even tell ya his name - cause yer lame

if now was then his eclecttic style would be met with disdainful stares from the limp dicked pussies trainspotting on the floor instead of trying ta catch a groove ( much less a hottie)

[ July 30, 2003, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: St Magus the Reviled ]

kev

07-30-2003, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
btw...house used to be hiphop...then all the nerdy lil trainspotting labelers moved in with their puritanism and ****ed the whole thing up...one of your IDOLS was hiphop ( C is for Cookie is a b-boy classic)...i won't even tell ya his name - cause yer lameL is for Levan. It has been documented that "Heartbeat" has been sampled over 35 times! And yes, Westend gets puh-puh-puh paid every damn time.

And another thing that these legends did on a regular basis was to take chances. Which is why Aerosmith is on your list of hip hop icons (walk this waaay). Sheeeeit, Bam used to play TV show theme songs. Too bad people today can't see outside the box. That and the definition of house and hip hop seems to get more specific with every generation.

julian_kelly

07-30-2003, 12:40 PM

My guess is Eminem...he was the second highest entertainer and pulled in over 30 million last year according to Forbes magazine.

I dont know if that dollar figure is based simply on US sales and/or worldwide sales. I dont know if that Forbes Entertainment list is strictly for American entertainers or entertainers worldwide.

julian kelly

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
...Now answer my damn question:

Who makes more money?

Eminem or Moby?

Huey P. Freeman

07-30-2003, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
btw...house used to be hiphop...then all the nerdy lil trainspotting labelers moved in with their puritanism and ****ed the whole thing up...one of your IDOLS was hiphop ( C is for Cookie is a b-boy classic)...i won't even tell ya his name - cause yer lame

if now was then his eclecttic style would be met with disdainful stares from the limp dicked faggots trainspotting on the floor instead of trying ta catch hgroove ( much less a hottie) I always thought house came from disco..... But I am probably wrong. Cause there is no way we both could be right.

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by IIBS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
btw...house used to be hiphop...then all the nerdy lil trainspotting labelers moved in with their puritanism and ****ed the whole thing up...one of your IDOLS was hiphop ( C is for Cookie is a b-boy classic)...i won't even tell ya his name - cause yer lameL is for Levan. It has been documented that "Heartbeat" has been sampled over 35 times! And yes, Westend gets puh-puh-puh paid every damn time.

And another thing that these legends did on a regular basis was to take chances. Which is why Aerosmith is on your list of hip hop icons (walk this waaay). Sheeeeit, Bam used to play TV show theme songs. Too bad people today can't see outside the box. That and the definition of house and hip hop seems to get more specific with every generation. [/QUOTE]rats...ya should a let these newbie labelers twist in the wind a bit

good one bro...played this song in the park once and the bass tore one of our particle board speakers to bits...insulation blowing around...but we had fun

kev

07-30-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by IIBS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:

for more insights into what i'm saying check the Bomb Squad or Andy Caldwells "the Document" or Cut ChemistDon't want to be all nit picky and shit, but I believe you're thinking of a different Andy. Andy Smith, perhaps? He has some type of affiliation with Portishead.

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
btw...house used to be hiphop...then all the nerdy lil trainspotting labelers moved in with their puritanism and ****ed the whole thing up...one of your IDOLS was hiphop ( C is for Cookie is a b-boy classic)...i won't even tell ya his name - cause yer lame

if now was then his eclecttic style would be met with disdainful stares from the limp dicked faggots trainspotting on the floor instead of trying ta catch hgroove ( much less a hottie) I always thought house came from disco..... But I am probably wrong. Cause there is no way we both could be right. [/QUOTE]no..you're just reading what you wanna read and not what i'm writing - typical

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by IIBS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:

for more insights into what i'm saying check the Bomb Squad or Andy Caldwells "the Document" or Cut ChemistDon't want to be all nit picky and shit, but I believe you're thinking of a different Andy. Andy Smith, perhaps? He has some type of affiliation with Portishead. [/QUOTE]it might be andy smith...The Documet is a mean peice of work yo

Huey P. Freeman

07-30-2003, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eargasm:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
[qb] btw...house used to be hiphop... graemlins/conf44.gif

Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand

07-30-2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Bullshit

Evil has been around a lot longer than money or the love of it.

Money is just a tool used for humans to trade goods and services....nothing more. Right :rolleyes: and countries are fighting over it because they want more money to just trade goods and services. Yep it's nothing more considering that the US has a trillion dollar deficit. But it's nothing :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]Right it is.

You said the love of money is the root of evil.

If you got rid of money Evil would still be here.

You people should think more before you aspouse such silly generalizations.

Root of evil is a big term amd evils 'root' is quite a bit more of a complex philosophical problem than your brilliant little treatise.

I can think of fifty million things people have killed, and fought over aside form money...that being the case money cannot be 'the root' of evil. [/QUOTE]I did not say it was the only evil. I only rephrase the quote and it as the Bible scripture has it. As a matter of fact this root of evil is the love of any treasure of some sort. Anything you do out of evil usually result back to money. Most people do evil things for fame, dominion, land, religion or fortune, which most of the time results to riches in this life or the afterlife.

How in the hell do you know when money got here? Money has been used since the beginning of time in different forms - cattle, crops, jewels, land etc.

Another form of evil is ignorance and ones philosophy to make it as truth, instead of being open to here what others have to say. So before you start with your condescending remarks, save them I'd rather go argue with my 2 & 3 year old. They are far more interesting graemlins/sleep2.gif

Bill Blake

07-30-2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
btw...house used to be hiphop...then all the nerdy lil trainspotting labelers moved in with their puritanism and ****ed the whole thing up...one of your IDOLS was hiphop ( C is for Cookie is a b-boy classic)...i won't even tell ya his name - cause yer lame

if now was then his eclecttic style would be met with disdainful stares from the limp dicked faggots trainspotting on the floor instead of trying ta catch hgroove ( much less a hottie) I always thought house came from disco..... [/QUOTE]Well were do you think hip hop came from?

Disca?

kev

07-30-2003, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
[QUOTE]The Documet is a mean peice of work yo agreed.

statuskuo

07-30-2003, 01:07 PM

great thread.

Bill Blake

07-30-2003, 01:11 PM

Bill Blake

07-30-2003, 01:13 PM

Reardon heard Bertram Scudder, outside thr group, say to a girl who made some sound of indignation, "Don't let him disturb you. You know, money is the root of all evil--and he's the typical product of money."

Reardon did not think that Francisco could have heard it, but the saw Francisco turning to them with a gravely curteous smile.

"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d' Anconia, "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears, nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor--your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of all money.

"Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions--and you'll learn that man's mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth.

Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand

07-30-2003, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Bullshit

Evil has been around a lot longer than money or the love of it.

Money is just a tool used for humans to trade goods and services....nothing more. Right :rolleyes: and countries are fighting over it because they want more money to just trade goods and services. Yep it's nothing more considering that the US has a trillion dollar deficit. But it's nothing :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]Right it is.

You said the love of money is the root of evil.

If you got rid of money Evil would still be here.

You people should think more before you aspouse such silly generalizations.

Root of evil is a big term amd evils 'root' is quite a bit more of a complex philosophical problem than your brilliant little treatise.

I can think of fifty million things people have killed, and fought over aside form money...that being the case money cannot be 'the root' of evil. [/QUOTE]I did not say it was the only evil. I only rephrase the quote and it as the Bible scripture has it. As a matter of fact this root of evil is the love of any treasure of some sort. Anything you do out of evil usually result back to money. Most people do evil things for fame, dominion, land, religion or fortune, which most of the time results to riches in this life or the afterlife.

How in the hell do you know when money got here? Money has been used since the beginning of time in different forms - cattle, crops, jewels, land etc.

Another form of evil is ignorance and ones philosophy to make it as truth, instead of being open to here what others have to say. So before you start with your condescending remarks, save them I'd rather go argue with my 2 & 3 year old. They are far more interesting graemlins/sleep2.gif [/QUOTE]Liar!

You said the love of money IS the root of evil.

Dont back out now.

And the bible was wrong....as it was on a lot of other things.

You can not ascribe evil to inanimate objects.

Not to mention money is a form of curency that has quite a unique difference than other means prior to. [/QUOTE]Do you have ADHD? Yes, I TOLD YOU I SAID IT AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE. Here is another scripture from the bible "A SOFT ANSWER TURNS AWAY WRATH" So I will end with this. When someone uses money for greed it's evil. Just ask hundreds of people that have died making products for less than a $1 an hour that will be sold for hundreds. But I forgot who I was talking too. Go play with something, nothing shiny you might hurt yourself.

I must admit your tactics to get a rise out of people are commendable, hats off to you. It is also boring graemlins/sleep2.gif Bark up some one else's tree you are full of it and yourself. Save your energy for the ones that actually care what you think ;)

[ July 30, 2003, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: DiscoLady ]

The Buddy Love Show

07-30-2003, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Bullshit

Evil has been around a lot longer than money or the love of it.

Money is just a tool used for humans to trade goods and services....nothing more. Right :rolleyes: and countries are fighting over it because they want more money to just trade goods and services. Yep it's nothing more considering that the US has a trillion dollar deficit. But it's nothing :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]Right it is.

You said the love of money is the root of evil.

If you got rid of money Evil would still be here.

You people should think more before you aspouse such silly generalizations.

Root of evil is a big term amd evils 'root' is quite a bit more of a complex philosophical problem than your brilliant little treatise.

I can think of fifty million things people have killed, and fought over aside form money...that being the case money cannot be 'the root' of evil. [/QUOTE]I did not say it was the only evil. I only rephrase the quote and it as the Bible scripture has it. As a matter of fact this root of evil is the love of any treasure of some sort. Anything you do out of evil usually result back to money. Most people do evil things for fame, dominion, land, religion or fortune, which most of the time results to riches in this life or the afterlife.

How in the hell do you know when money got here? Money has been used since the beginning of time in different forms - cattle, crops, jewels, land etc.

Another form of evil is ignorance and ones philosophy to make it as truth, instead of being open to here what others have to say. So before you start with your condescending remarks, save them I'd rather go argue with my 2 & 3 year old. They are far more interesting graemlins/sleep2.gif [/QUOTE]Liar!

You said the love of money IS the root of evil.

Dont back out now.

And the bible was wrong....as it was on a lot of other things.

You can not ascribe evil to inanimate objects.

Not to mention money is a form of curency that has quite a unique difference than other means prior to. [/QUOTE]Do you have ADHD? Yes, I TOLD YOU I SAID IT AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE. Here is another scripture from the bible "A SOFT ANSWER TURNS AWAY WRATH" So I will end with this. When someone uses money for greed it's evil. Just ask hundreds of people that have died making products for less than a $1 an hour that will be sold for hundreds. But I forgot who I was talking too. Go play with something, nothing shiny you might hurt yourself.

I must admit your tactics to get a rise out of people are commendable, hats off to you. It is also boring graemlins/sleep2.gif Bark up some one else's tree you are full of it and yourself. Save your energy for the ones that actually care what you think ;) [/QUOTE]i would think that "thou shalt not covet... " would be more apropos as for money and materiality...there are so many opposing quotes in the bible to leave the feeling towards money rather much in doubt, but covetnousness..ahh..we covet what? and the tool we need to obtain that which is coveted is what?

how bout that Willie McCovey?

Huey P. Freeman

07-30-2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
btw...house used to be hiphop...then all the nerdy lil trainspotting labelers moved in with their puritanism and ****ed the whole thing up...one of your IDOLS was hiphop ( C is for Cookie is a b-boy classic)...i won't even tell ya his name - cause yer lame

if now was then his eclecttic style would be met with disdainful stares from the limp dicked faggots trainspotting on the floor instead of trying ta catch hgroove ( much less a hottie) I always thought house came from disco..... [/QUOTE]Well were do you think hip hop came from?

Disca? [/QUOTE]What exactly is your point?