UK versus US (Who's the better DJ or Producer)

[RON CARROLL]

Look back over the years at the world of House Music. It seems like when the US was in charge of doing the BIG records, or going overseas to Dj, the scene was great, all the labels were making money, and the music was soulful. Now, when europe finally get's the chance to shine and show there stuff, the House music industry is DYING, and labels are going Bankrupt, that have been in buisness for years. What is wrong here ? Now what was once just the names House (Chicago) and Techno (Detriot), has become countless made up names, and styles given by the UK, and advertised in there major publications to confuse the masses. House should be House, not Tech House, Speed garage, 2 Step, Progressive and Epic Trance.
Why do you think almost all of America has turned to HipHOp. Because with R&B it still gives you a song, and story with soul and feeling. So today, to you Who's Better ?, and what do you think about this situation. graemlins/conf44.gif

[AD]

Hands down, the US. At least that's how my taste goes. UK producers just don't do it for me. CJ Mackintosh, Paul Anderson, Dimitri from Paris, Harvey and a few others are more to my liking, but the majority of UK DJs and producers just bore the hell outta me. Just my too sense.

[ August 06, 2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Albert Diaz ]

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Don't blame this on UK producers. Blame it on Corporations cutting their costs when "House Music" is no longer an economically viable product to push.

It's also a case of history repeating itself. This has happened to Jazz too. Black Jazz musicians were more appreciated and accepted in Europe compared to the United States. Europeans tend to hold on the the essence of black music longer than their US counterparts.

But I do agree with you when it comes to all of the labeling. It seems that most of the labeling is coming from Europe as opposed to the United States.


Peace

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by Albert Diaz:
Hands down, the US. At least that's how my taste goes. UK producers just don't do it for me. CJ Mackintosh, Paul Anderson, Dimitri from Paris, Harvey and a few others are more to my liking, but the majority of UK DJs and producers just bore the hell outta me. Just my too sense. Please don't tell me a fib and say that you're head was not "knodding" when you first heard Black Science Orchestra's "New Jersey Deep".

Peace

[AD]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Albert Diaz:
Hands down, the US. At least that's how my taste goes. UK producers just don't do it for me. CJ Mackintosh, Paul Anderson, Dimitri from Paris, Harvey and a few others are more to my liking, but the majority of UK DJs and producers just bore the hell outta me. Just my too sense. Please don't tell me a fib and say that you're head was not "knodding" when you first heard Black Science Orchestra's "New Jersey Deep".

Peace </font>[/QUOTE]
a few others are more to my liking Hello??? Do you not know how to read?

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Yes I DO know how to read and it seems to me that your not getting the entire picture.

Read through the credits of your records and count how many people who worked behind the scenes on alot of House cuts that are from Europe.

Peace

[AD]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Yes I DO know how to read and it seems to me that your not getting the entire picture.

Read through the credits of your records and count how many people who worked behind the scenes on alot of House cuts that are from Europe.

Peace Read the title of this topic. It says DJs or Producers NOT behind the scenes people. BSO would be considered an artist/producer, right? So they qualify for the question. Apparently you didn't understand my "and a few others" response. To me Joe Schmoe who was lucky to get his name slapped on wax because he knows so and so who DJ'd at so and so's party does not qualify as a producer to me. I suggest you re-read the title of the topic.

[GROOVE VICTIM]

You simply answered "Hands down, the US". Explain why the other UK producers don't do it for you. What's your reasoning behind this.


Please explain.

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by Albert Diaz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Yes I DO know how to read and it seems to me that your not getting the entire picture.

Read through the credits of your records and count how many people who worked behind the scenes on alot of House cuts that are from Europe.

Peace Read the title of this topic. It says DJs or Producers NOT behind the scenes people. </font>[/QUOTE]And this is the main reason why producers like Larry Rausen are "OVER LOOKED". It's those people behind the scenes with no names that do a shit load of work to get a great record out to the masses.

Peace

[AD]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
You simply answered "Hands down, the US". Explain why the other UK producers don't do it for you. What's your reasoning behind this.


Please explain. I don't feel like explaining 'cause I'd be here forever, but it just doesn't move me. I don't feel anything from it. If you do, then more power to you.

[jpsf]

so much of the music goes on behind the scenes. maybe even most of the music. if you are just looking at the name in big print you are missing out.

that said, i thought the sample used in new jersey deep was from an older US disco track. anyone know about that?

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by jpsf:
so much of the music goes on behind the scenes. maybe even most of the music. if you are just looking at the name in big print you are missing out.

that said, i thought the sample used in new jersey deep was from an older US disco track. anyone know about that? Yes it was taken from Wood Brass and Steel's "Funkanova".

Peace

[kev]

Originally posted by jpsf:
so much of the music goes on behind the scenes. maybe even most of the music. if you are just looking at the name in big print you are missing out.The Jeri and Vic from Mr. A.L.I. are prime examples.

[kev]

Originally posted by jpsf:
so much of the music goes on behind the scenes. maybe even most of the music. if you are just looking at the name in big print you are missing out.Jeri and Vic from Mr. A.L.I. are prime examples.

[D J 1 3 8]

IMO, the topic of this thread is bogus.
We could never pick a "who is better".
There are so many great DJs and Producers from all over the world, why try to build fences?

[jpsf]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
IMO, the topic of this thread is bogus.
We could never pick a "who is better".
There are so many great DJs and Producers from all over the world, why try to build fences? graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
IMO, the topic of this thread is bogus.
We could never pick a "who is better".
There are so many great DJs and Producers from all over the world, why try to build fences? Thank you!!!!! To put blame on this stuggling scene on a group of people from a certain region of the country because of musical tastes is rather bland IMO.

From a business point of view, I'm pretty sure that if this music was not marketed the correct way, we would've dropped the music too.

Ya gotta eat!!!

[ August 06, 2003, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: GROOVE VICTIM ]

[Rob.J]

"IMO, the topic of this thread is bogus.
We could never pick a "who is better".
There are so many great DJs and Producers from all over the world, why try to build fences?"

Well said :D

rob

[ August 06, 2003, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Rob.J ]

[upliftdisco365]

Originally posted by RON CARROLL:

Why do you think almost all of America has turned to HipHOp. Because with R&B it still gives you a song, and story with soul and feeling.I bring this post back to life against my better judgement, but today's R&B, for the most part... er... sucks ass. Mindless music-less music and stupid lyrics sang by talent-less broads and/or thugs about absolutely nothing. Sure, it generates a lot of money, but so do cigarettes.

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by RON CARROLL:
Look back over the years at the world of House Music. It seems like when the US was in charge of doing the BIG records, or going overseas to Dj, the scene was great, all the labels were making money, and the music was soulful. Now, when europe finally get's the chance to shine and show there stuff, the House music industry is DYING, and labels are going Bankrupt, that have been in buisness for years. What is wrong here ? Now what was once just the names House (Chicago) and Techno (Detriot), has become countless made up names, and styles given by the UK, and advertised in there major publications to confuse the masses. House should be House, not Tech House, Speed garage, 2 Step, Progressive and Epic Trance.
Why do you think almost all of America has turned to HipHOp. Because with R&B it still gives you a song, and story with soul and feeling. So today, to you Who's Better ?, and what do you think about this situation. graemlins/conf44.gif Re "flipping" spect graemlins/respekt.gif , needed to be said.

That answers your question, yes ?

The problem is caused by...... ?

Journalists ?
Magazine Editors ?
teens - 20 somethings, changing the names to protect the guilty.

If the music ain't new don't try and stick some extra name to make it appeal as something new for the young uns to jump on, and talk about in a fashion sense. **** em' keeps the flies in one place.

Bankrupt record co's and Mags going out of circulation is probably is not a bad thing.

The times when the best music come out where harder times, certainly in UK, perhaps in the US too under Reagan, would you agree ?

This scene has got fat and needs to lose weight before the arteries get clogged.


Oh, U.S hail.gif , but I don't treat it like a competition, Uk would have lost years ago.

There is still a fair bit of talent here and we are a spring board for quite alot of music though, we are the testing ground I believe.


Italy
Germany
Japan
UK
Belgium
Spain
Brazil
Africa
Etc

also to consider, or are UK and US the only two places worthwhile of a mention graemlins/conf44.gif

[ August 07, 2003, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

[uzibee]

What about the french?
Like Pepe bradock, Dj Deep, Julien Jabre, Martin Solveig, Llorca, St-Germain,David Duriez ect...

Can we blame them too? I don't like them (j/k)

[socratez]

Im a little bit offended by this topic because the names mentioned here are Europian producers making HOUSE. But there are lots of other talents in Europe who were able to take the chicago housesound further then most chicago producers did. FOr instance 1,5 years after Adonis creatid No way back. Voodoo Ray- A Guy Called Gerald came out, this was a very sophisticated record in comparison to most chicago trax in that time. 2 years after that, Black Dog and B12 came out with some brilliant innovating techno.
In 1991 the UK scene gave up the traditional 909 4to4 beats and started using breakbeats. IN the beginning of the 90's i was more in to UK stuff then into US-house because the most innovating stuff came from Europe. There is some brilliant music there wich ive never heard anyone mention on this board.

[ruse]

Originally posted by upliftdisco365:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RON CARROLL:

Why do you think almost all of America has turned to HipHOp. Because with R&B it still gives you a song, and story with soul and feeling.I bring this post back to life against my better judgement, but today's R&B, for the most part... er... sucks ass. Mindless music-less music and stupid lyrics sang by talent-less broads and/or thugs about absolutely nothing. Sure, it generates a lot of money, but so do cigarettes. </font>[/QUOTE]Usually I agree with your comments Uplift, but here I have to disagree... much of the R&B I hear today is experimental while managing to stay relevant...something that house stopped being a while ago. I also feel that much of today's R&B can hold up to the great tradition of that genre... that's why a radio station like KISS FM can play Erikah Badu and Jaheim alongside Evelyn "Champagne" King and the Isleys.
No doubt, there is also a lot of shitty R&B out there. But the same can be said for any genre today.

[Huey P. Freeman]

I'm feeling music from both sides of the pond. Who's better? Doesn't matter. Keep the tunes coming.

[socratez]

i 2nd that

[Kenrick _]

Originally posted by ruse:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by upliftdisco365:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RON CARROLL:

Why do you think almost all of America has turned to HipHOp. Because with R&B it still gives you a song, and story with soul and feeling.I bring this post back to life against my better judgement, but today's R&B, for the most part... er... sucks ass. Mindless music-less music and stupid lyrics sang by talent-less broads and/or thugs about absolutely nothing. Sure, it generates a lot of money, but so do cigarettes. </font>[/QUOTE]Usually I agree with your comments Uplift, but here I have to disagree... much of the R&B I hear today is experimental while managing to stay relevant...something that house stopped being a while ago. I also feel that much of today's R&B can hold up to the great tradition of that genre... that's why a radio station like KISS FM can play Erikah Badu and Jaheim alongside Evelyn "Champagne" King and the Isleys.
No doubt, there is also a lot of shitty R&B out there. But the same can be said for any genre today. </font>[/QUOTE].... or any genre of yesterday

[upliftdisco365]

Originally posted by ruse:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by upliftdisco365:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RON CARROLL:

Why do you think almost all of America has turned to HipHOp. Because with R&B it still gives you a song, and story with soul and feeling.I bring this post back to life against my better judgement, but today's R&B, for the most part... er... sucks ass. Mindless music-less music and stupid lyrics sang by talent-less broads and/or thugs about absolutely nothing. Sure, it generates a lot of money, but so do cigarettes. </font>[/QUOTE]Usually I agree with your comments Uplift, but here I have to disagree... much of the R&B I hear today is experimental while managing to stay relevant...something that house stopped being a while ago. I also feel that much of today's R&B can hold up to the great tradition of that genre... that's why a radio station like KISS FM can play Erikah Badu and Jaheim alongside Evelyn "Champagne" King and the Isleys.
No doubt, there is also a lot of shitty R&B out there. But the same can be said for any genre today. </font>[/QUOTE]Whassup ruse. I hear you, but in all fairness, the operative phrase was for the most part. With the exception of Rape Rock or something of equal stupidity and danger, I steer clear of condeming entire genres. There are innovative writers/artists that still appear to be reaching for something artistic and meaningful in R&B. Unfortunately, those aren't the music videos/radio rotations with which you're incessantly bombarded.

"..experimental, while managing to stay relevant." I've got no idea what that means. I mean, what song-to-be-made isn't an experiment? And what sort of barometer of quality is relevance? And as far as much of today's R&B standing up to the regal tradition of the gernre, well I completely disagree. Who among today's teeny-boppers could you put on the same planet as Chaka w/Rufus, Ashford & Simpson, Jeffrey Osborne, George Benson, Machine or Patrice Rushen?

[RON CARROLL]

Don't get me wrong. There are people in the UK to whom I adore graemlins/respekt.gif , however those people we don't see in the spotlight. The rest of Europe is great to me, but you must remember that all of Europe is controlled by what the British Hypes up for that month or year. Remember the word "Hype" this is a word that most people have a successful career on, instead of talent. I DJ alot overseas, and I see DJ's who are playing, and there looking around the room like "I'm a Superstar" look at me everybody. Or only playing the BIG records for instant crowd response. My only thing was to here what other people thought of this topic, because I here this in Europe all the time. Remember there Bigger in the music, that we taught them how to do, and now there on the Hip Hop next. I garauntee you that in 3 to 5 years thay will blow out Hip Hop to the extreme, with 6 diffrent styles. Imagine Tech-Hop, graemlins/puke.gif and Progressive HipHop. graemlins/puke.gif It's coming!! I'm just saying that when America gave "House", we gave Image, and Sound. artist driven music, and not DJ HUGGY BEAR feat ?????. House music needs to have Image of the artist again, and that's what's missing.

see now i'm about to cry graemlins/mecry.gif

[socratez]

dont cry man

graemlins/bighug.gif


Originally posted by RON CARROLL:
Don't get me wrong. There are people in the UK to whom I adore graemlins/respekt.gif , however those people we don't see in the spotlight. The rest of Europe is great to me, but you must remember that all of Europe is controlled by what the British Hypes up for that month or year. Remember the word "Hype" this is a word that most people have a successful career on, instead of talent. I DJ alot overseas, and I see DJ's who are playing, and there looking around the room like "I'm a Superstar" look at me everybody. Or only playing the BIG records for instant crowd response. My only thing was to here what other people thought of this topic, because I here this in Europe all the time. Remember there Bigger in the music, that we taught them how to do, and now there on the Hip Hop next. I garauntee you that in 3 to 5 years thay will blow out Hip Hop to the extreme, with 6 diffrent styles. Imagine Tech-Hop, graemlins/puke.gif and Progressive HipHop. graemlins/puke.gif It's coming!! I'm just saying that when America gave "House", we gave Image, and Sound. artist driven music, and not DJ HUGGY BEAR feat ?????. House music needs to have Image of the artist again, and that's what's missing.

see now i'm about to cry graemlins/mecry.gif

[ruse]

Originally posted by upliftdisco365:
Who among today's teeny-boppers could you put on the same planet as Chaka w/Rufus, Ashford & Simpson, Jeffrey Osborne, George Benson, Machine or Patrice Rushen? Hey Uplift, NONE OF US deserve to be on the same planet as the artists you've just mentioned!!! I also have a special affinity for R&B music from the late '70's to mid '80's, but I wonder if the parents of those listening to that music used to complain...and mention how lacking it was in comparison to the likes of Otis Redding, Sam Cooke, Motown, etc...

[upliftdisco365]

Originally posted by ruse:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by upliftdisco365:
Who among today's teeny-boppers could you put on the same planet as Chaka w/Rufus, Ashford & Simpson, Jeffrey Osborne, George Benson, Machine or Patrice Rushen? Hey Uplift, NONE OF US deserve to be on the same planet as the artists you've just mentioned!!! I also have a special affinity for R&B music from the late '70's to mid '80's, but I wonder if the parents of those listening to that music used to complain...and mention how lacking it was in comparison to the likes of Otis Redding, Sam Cooke, Motown, etc... </font>[/QUOTE]Excellent point.

[MusicFilter]

Hip Hop is being sold by the video. There are no house music videos so it can only rely on DJ play.

Hip Hop also has a look that has turned yet another industry FUBU, Sean John, Phat Farm etc.

Hip Hop has artists that are also industries within themselves - film - Ice Cube, Eminem, Will Smith, Queen Latifa

Hip Hop is selling cologne, liquor, gym shoes, jewelry, naked girl dvds and videos.

These artists have tv shows and restaurants.

Hip Hop has turned into a force to be reckoned with.

If we push it hard enough and show the world our way of life and our music maybe, just maybe this music will not die.

Ron, keep up the good work. I love your work! hail.gif

[JMNYC]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
I'm feeling music from both sides of the pond. Who's better? Doesn't matter. Keep the tunes coming. graemlins/grinyes.gif

[Quentin Harrris]

Originally posted by chgodj3:
Hip Hop is being sold by the video. There are no house music videos so it can only rely on DJ play.

Hip Hop also has a look that has turned yet another industry FUBU, Sean John, Phat Farm etc.

Hip Hop has artists that are also industries within themselves - film - Ice Cube, Eminem, Will Smith, Queen Latifa

Hip Hop is selling cologne, liquor, gym shoes, jewelry, naked girl dvds and videos.

These artists have tv shows and restaurants.

Hip Hop has turned into a force to be reckoned with.

If we push it hard enough and show the world our way of life and our music maybe, just maybe this music will not die.

Ron, keep up the good work. I love your work! hail.gif Actualy there are Videos to house music we in the states just dont see them....I have seen videos for Moloko,Blue six among others...when House music was at its peak in the mid-90's there where videos to House songs but also there where faces...something that lacks today..just my 2 cent

[RON CARROLL]

Actualy there are Videos to house music we in the states just dont see them....I have seen videos for Moloko,Blue six among others...when House music was at its peak in the mid-90's there where videos to House songs but also there where faces...something that lacks today..just my 2 cent

True, there are House music video's, but with no faces. The World is drawn to IMAGE, and LEADERSHIP. The world likes for someone to show them a new dance step, or fashion, because they can't think of it themselves. People of House music seem to be like them. (Average people who follow the trends of society) instead of being a leader, and to show the people what's hot and new. Puffy is doing "Progressive" and "Electro", because that music has an Image, and he was drawn to it. America loves "Trance" because it has leaders in it "Oakenfold", "Sasha", and we don't. I don't know about the rest of you, but I do this for a living, and I want people to Love what we play and do all over the world, and I will create an Image behind what I and my Posse do.

Thank you, I now will take my seat graemlins/acclaim.gif

[Ronnie Ron]

Originally posted by upliftdisco365:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RON CARROLL:

Why do you think almost all of America has turned to HipHOp. Because with R&B it still gives you a song, and story with soul and feeling.I bring this post back to life against my better judgement, but today's R&B, for the most part... er... sucks ass. Mindless music-less music and stupid lyrics sang by talent-less broads and/or thugs about absolutely nothing. Sure, it generates a lot of money, but so do cigarettes. </font>[/QUOTE]Preach Uplift!!!!

R-R

[Ronnie Ron]

The best way to solve this problem is to purchase the best records and leave the ones that do nothing for you on the shelves. it will send a message to all labels within the US and UK that DJ's will not purchase bullshit just because you put it out. You can make a statement with your dollars. Im sure there are loads of people that look at the record label and make a judgement on weather or not they want to purchase the record, if its a marginal record and just ok they will buy it because its on lets say for an example "Purple music" Let your dollars be your voice!!

Also just because a BIG dj played the record you must ask youself do you really want that record in your collection is it a truly good record that you can put on in a year or 5 years and people still dig it, be it US or UK origin.

R-R

[ August 09, 2003, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: RonnieRon ]

[beaniboy67]

Originally posted by RonnieRon:
The best way to solve this problem is to purchase the best records and leave the ones that do nothing for you on the shelves. it will send a message to all labels within the US and UK that DJ's will not purchase bullshit just because you put it out. You can make a statement with your dollars. Im sure there are loads of people that look at the record label and make a judgement on weather or not they want to purchase the record, if its a marginal record and just ok they will buy it because its on lets say for an example "Purple music" Let your dollars be your voice!!

Also just because a BIG dj played the record you must ask youself do you really want that record in your collection is it a truly good record that you can put on in a year or 5 years and people still dig it, be it US or UK origin.

R-R i here ya there!!

i ve been listenin to house for years but just recently started purchasin cos i got tables!!

i listened to over a 2000 records in the last 5 months but only bought around 75!!

most i heard were shit and the ones i bought were what i wanted to buy&gt;not because somone told me to buy them,not because i had money to burn but because i liked them and i wanted people to no i can spot a tune and say "where did u get that"or "what the fuik is that" or "that is summit special"but overall because i wanted to play it and say "i no a fuikin tune when i hear it"

i would never buy because a label is reputed to be hot or because timmy regisford says its hot!! i but it cos i like it and i want others get what i get off it!!

:D

house is a feeling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mah'chew]

There's good music and bad music on both sides of the pond...

Let's face it, for mainstream Europeans 'Trance' = 'U.S. Weak Assed MTV P.Diddy, Nelly, Whatever Wank Hop'

P.Diddy is as whack as Ferry Corsten and Phil Asher is as cool as DJ Spinna - non argument ;)

Only the strong survive and this year I'm gaining strength from Vietnamese Speed Polka :D