A Reason 4 Question (non-technical)

[Dj Izm]

Hey All,

I seem to have the biggest problem transferring what's in my head to the computer. Has anybody solved this or care to share what works for them?

Secondly, I've been trying to program a simple bass, snare, closed hat pattern but I haven't been able to find a decent drum palette. For those of you who use Reason 4, is there some drum patch you find comes closest to what you're looking for? I'm not asking for any "secret" palettes, but it's often frustrating trying to get started when you're spending hours looking a "decent" kick, snare, and closed hat.

Thirdly, fattening up drums in Reason 4 seems to be a mystery to me. I've thrown a Scream 4 on a kick (just the kick) and used the Tape Compression and cranked up the "volume" with poor results. I've tried using Unison (not sure what I thought that was going to do) and even triggered two of the same kicks. What are the Tips and Tricks to fattening up drums in Reason.

Lastly, if you were to list the top 4 components to a deep house track (sound palette wise), what would you say? Let me give a little more info as to what I'm looking for. I often hear tracks that sound like they have the following components:

Thick Bass (think Subtractor "Bass Guitar")
Rhodes "simulated" keys (I guess Electromechanical has this)
Some kind of pad (I'm not sure)
Another higher frequency sound to round out the pad or rhodesCan someone school an amateur?

As always, I'll give my disclaimer. I'm not looking to "break into the business" or anything. This is just a very expensive hobby of mine. I've always been told to listen to what I like and try to duplicate it (as a starting point). That's easier said than done when:

You're stuck on the drum pattern (and palette)
You're trying to figure out the "essential" sound layers for melody, chords, and bass lineThanks for your assistance!!!!

Peace & HouzNez 4EvR....

Izm.

[Dj Izm]

Did I ask too many questions? :conf44:

[Ashwell]

You should pick up a copy of Reason4 Power if you haven't already. It's a good resource. You may also want to look at eventually getting a more versatile DAW like Logic, Cubase4, or Ableton in which you could bring Reason in as needed but use other VST's and start exploring some outboard gear. You may find it quicker to get the result you're looking for by incorporating additional software and hardware.

Doesn't get much easier than Reason for drums though. Just keep building your own kits. There are a ton of refills out there. The Re:drum uses Wav files as well. You can also make a combinator of maelstroms, subtractors and whatever triggered by the Re:drum, matrix or by just triggering it on the fly in the sequencer.

[Dj Izm]

Hey Ashwell,

Thanks for the advice. I actually do have Logic Pro. I haven't been able to play with it too much due to the limitations of my laptop but that should be changing soon (getting the new MBP). In any event, the software isn't my issue. I'm really interested in answering question 3: the structure of a deep house track. Is it really bass, rhodes, and pads?

The saga continues....


You should pick up a copy of Reason4 Power if you haven't already. It's a good resource. You may also want to look at eventually getting a more versatile DAW like Logic, Cubase4, or Ableton in which you could bring Reason in as needed but use other VST's and start exploring some outboard gear. You may find it quicker to get the result you're looking for by incorporating additional software and hardware.

Doesn't get much easier than Reason for drums though. Just keep building your own kits. There are a ton of refills out there. The Re:drum uses Wav files as well. You can also make a combinator of maelstroms, subtractors and whatever triggered by the Re:drum, matrix or by just triggering it on the fly in the sequencer.

[Ashwell]

Well, you have plenty of good house tracks with no electric pianos and there are plenty of tracks with drums, bass and rhodes that wouldn't be considered a house track.

I think you can look at elements you consistently like in a variety of tracks and work them into your own style. But to seek out a formula would put you in a place where all of your own music sounds alike - I'm not sure you want that.

[Dj Izm]

You're right. My question is more about what the actual sounds are. For example, if you were trying to make a track similar to what Tortured Soul or Blaze would put out, what sounds would you start out with: bass, rhodes, strings, pad, and piano? I'm just trying to figure out what the sounds are. I have a HUGE selection of refills and samples but since I don't know what "kinds" of sounds go into the mix, it's a daunting task to go through, literally, thousands of sounds. By the time I get through a couple of hundred, I'm usually frustrated and end up not making anything.

I also have Logic Pro 8 (Studio) that I am finally able to play with (new computer) but I need to master my Reason 4 first :-)

Am I being any clearer? Thanks again for your help though!!!

Peace,

Izm


Well, you have plenty of good house tracks with no electric pianos and there are plenty of tracks with drums, bass and rhodes that wouldn't be considered a house track.

I think you can look at elements you consistently like in a variety of tracks and work them into your own style. But to seek out a formula would put you in a place where all of your own music sounds alike - I'm not sure you want that.

[DJ Keith Porter]

Hey All,

I seem to have the biggest problem transferring what's in my head to the computer. Has anybody solved this or care to share what works for them?

Secondly, I've been trying to program a simple bass, snare, closed hat pattern but I haven't been able to find a decent drum palette. For those of you who use Reason 4, is there some drum patch you find comes closest to what you're looking for? I'm not asking for any "secret" palettes, but it's often frustrating trying to get started when you're spending hours looking a "decent" kick, snare, and closed hat.

Thirdly, fattening up drums in Reason 4 seems to be a mystery to me. I've thrown a Scream 4 on a kick (just the kick) and used the Tape Compression and cranked up the "volume" with poor results. I've tried using Unison (not sure what I thought that was going to do) and even triggered two of the same kicks. What are the Tips and Tricks to fattening up drums in Reason.

Lastly, if you were to list the top 4 components to a deep house track (sound palette wise), what would you say? Let me give a little more info as to what I'm looking for. I often hear tracks that sound like they have the following components:

Thick Bass (think Subtractor "Bass Guitar")
Rhodes "simulated" keys (I guess Electromechanical has this)
Some kind of pad (I'm not sure)
Another higher frequency sound to round out the pad or rhodesCan someone school an amateur?

As always, I'll give my disclaimer. I'm not looking to "break into the business" or anything. This is just a very expensive hobby of mine. I've always been told to listen to what I like and try to duplicate it (as a starting point). That's easier said than done when:

You're stuck on the drum pattern (and palette)
You're trying to figure out the "essential" sound layers for melody, chords, and bass lineThanks for your assistance!!!!

Peace & HouzNez 4EvR....

Izm.

Let me try to aswer the question one At a time:

What’s in your head can be transferred to what you want by just taking your time and selecting the specific sounds you like to hear one at a time.

Programming simple bass, snare, closed hat and drum patterns can be done with several devices.

For Bass lines I use the NNXT from the jump because I like to develop my own bass patterns with the key board. (I’m no long winded keyboardist)

You can also use the Dr.Rex and develop your own pattern as well but, you will be limited to repetitious patterns with that device.
Another way to make real life bass line pattern with the DR.Rex is to edit the pattern you sent to the track and adding additional bass patterns and Rex devices & combining two or three patterns that complement each other.

Using the Maltrom is another hot device to create your own Bass lines. The bass sounds that are in there are very nice and the device allows you to filter, change frequency, LFO etc. that you can fine tune your sound to your liking.


Using the Redrum to create a bass line is ok as well but in order to create a bass pattern the will not be repetitious you will need to change the beat loop from 16 to 32 or 48 if necessary.
After you have created the desired pattern you may want to automate the frequency, length and volume to get a more of a real feel of the instrument.

I haven’t used the Thor for any bass lines but I have fiddled with some of the sounds.

Obtaining Kicks, Snares, Hats, congas etc.
What I do is: I use the search feature to look for these sounds on my HD. After Reason has found the desired sounds I’m looking for (In this case I’m looking for a kick), I then go down the list to listen to the type of sound response I’m looking for and then use it.
If my kick is not flat enough (I like using the NNXT for this) I layer the kick with maybe another kick or sometimes a bass sound or melodic sound and by tweaking the filters etc. on the device.
You can also use the Redrum to make the patterns but as mention previously; if you want a real life pattern you have to change the beat loop from 16 to 32 or 48 if necessary.

As was mentioned previously; you should be using other software’s along side reason because reason is not going to give you unlimited flexibility on tweaking your sounds to your liking.

Don’t get me wrong reason is an incredible production software but, until they incorporate audio into the software they will always be used as a slave software.

I hope this information helps you based on what you expressed and if not I hope it will help you on other issues that you didn’t convey here.

Let me know.

Happy Producing!

[Dj Izm]

Thanks Keith. I appreciate the assistance. I may need to put some audio clips on here so folks can tell me what they think the sounds are. For example, I was interested in a sound from Stevie Wonder's "Too High" and realized that it's a Clavinet. This is what I mean. I hear the sounds (various) in many "deep house" songs and I'm wondering what they are. I can discern bass and Rhodes Piano/Organ, but I'm trying to figure out what the other sounds are that "round out" the track.

[Walter Stallworth]

Thanks Keith. I appreciate the assistance. I may need to put some audio clips on here so folks can tell me what they think the sounds are. For example, I was interested in a sound from Stevie Wonder's "Too High" and realized that it's a Clavinet. This is what I mean. I hear the sounds (various) in many "deep house" songs and I'm wondering what they are. I can discern bass and Rhodes Piano/Organ, but I'm trying to figure out what the other sounds are that "round out" the track.
I agree with Keith, Reason is powerful but you're still going to have to use a DAW like PT, Logic, etc. You're just going to have to play around Izm. Most cats won't tell you what sounds they use as they like to keep things to themselves. I've always wanted to know the bass sound in alot of the yoruba tracks, like the one of bodydrumming. The only answer I got was a poly synth. And that might not be the right answer. Just keep plugging away.

[Ashwell]

Walter's right a lot of people get closed lip about things. It reminds me of dj's who used to black out labels on records. I guess people get insecure.

But there are some classic sounds that you should be able to id like the tone of different rhodes (mkI, mkII, etc), wurly's, clavinets, different organs, etc...Then you have a better starting point when you're looking for a sound in the electromechanical refill or the vintage keyboards refill or whatever you have to dig through. Once you find a sound that's close you'll probably end up tweaking it in one of the reason instruments and probably run it through various effects to get different tones.

Also, don't forget about Youtube. You can search for any type of keyboard and you'll get clips of people playing that can help you id the sound with the keyboard that made it. Some of these clips will give you ideas on effects that will help you achieve certain sounds as well. Then you can go into Reason and have a better sense of what you're trying to do.

Also, you should search for lists of gear associated with studio producers you like. Once you know someone's using say a moog for a bass or a Juno for a pad or some other gear commonly used to make house you'll either have an idea of what sort of sound you're looking for or be able to identify what that synth basically sounds like and then hunt for a similar tone in reason.

Future Music magazine, while addictive and likely to suck you into a lifetime moneypit mindset of obsessive gear acquisition, has good in the studio tutorials and how to info on how producers are achieiving their sound.

I don't think that you should get too hung up chasing sounds that other people have made though. I've wasted a lot of hours doing that and it's just more productive to learn how to make sounds that you like. But, it does feel pretty good when you figure out how someone is doing that certain thing that you like.

I love everything about Rick Wade's sound but those eerie rhodes tones still are hard to emulate.

[Ashwell]

Actually, has there already been a thread disecting why Yoruba tracks sound so damn good? If not, that might be a good idea.

Does anyone have any idea what they're using for production. Is it all coming out of one studio or separate project studio's being mastered by a common studio or what?

[blackwax]

i found some of this stuff is a help

http://uk.youtube.com/profile_play_list?user=pointblankonline

some good tutorials here

http://www.digital-blonde.com/home.php

i search youtube etc as well
lots of good tips etc on the net !!

[DJ Keith Porter]

I don't think that you should get too hung up chasing sounds that other people have made though. I've wasted a lot of hours doing that and it's just more productive to learn how to make sounds that you like. But, it does feel pretty good when you figure out how someone is doing that certain thing that you like.

That is exactly the route to creativity.

Izm
I will tell you that all them unique sounds you are hearing are sounds that people made up by combinding sounds and tweaking them (As I previously mentioned) and saving them as their very own preset(s).

I think having production equipment, software etc. should be all about creativity and getting those thoughts out of your head and on to the board like you initially expressed in this thread.

JMHO. I would try to create my own sounds and one day someone like you will admire your sound(s).

Once you do figure out someones sound I would hope that you would work with it and create another sound out of it in stead of just bitting it.

My spare change toward this thread.

Carry on.

Happy producing.

[Dj Izm]

Everyone,

Thanks so very much for the tips, advice, and useful information. I guess it's inevitable. I need to go through the sounds or delve into sound creation myself. I usually go with the stock sounds from refills, etc. I remember how frustrating it was making sounds on my old Yamaha DX-27 but I guess things are quicker/better in software. Eh, we'll see.

I'll comb youtube as well. I appreciate all of it:respent:

Peace,

Izm

[dcook]

Hey All,

I seem to have the biggest problem transferring what's in my head to the computer. Has anybody solved this or care to share what works for them?

Secondly, I've been trying to program a simple bass, snare, closed hat pattern but I haven't been able to find a decent drum palette. For those of you who use Reason 4, is there some drum patch you find comes closest to what you're looking for? I'm not asking for any "secret" palettes, but it's often frustrating trying to get started when you're spending hours looking a "decent" kick, snare, and closed hat.

Thirdly, fattening up drums in Reason 4 seems to be a mystery to me. I've thrown a Scream 4 on a kick (just the kick) and used the Tape Compression and cranked up the "volume" with poor results. I've tried using Unison (not sure what I thought that was going to do) and even triggered two of the same kicks. What are the Tips and Tricks to fattening up drums in Reason.

Lastly, if you were to list the top 4 components to a deep house track (sound palette wise), what would you say? Let me give a little more info as to what I'm looking for. I often hear tracks that sound like they have the following components:

Thick Bass (think Subtractor "Bass Guitar")
Rhodes "simulated" keys (I guess Electromechanical has this)
Some kind of pad (I'm not sure)
Another higher frequency sound to round out the pad or rhodesCan someone school an amateur?

As always, I'll give my disclaimer. I'm not looking to "break into the business" or anything. This is just a very expensive hobby of mine. I've always been told to listen to what I like and try to duplicate it (as a starting point). That's easier said than done when:

You're stuck on the drum pattern (and palette)
You're trying to figure out the "essential" sound layers for melody, chords, and bass lineThanks for your assistance!!!!

Peace & HouzNez 4EvR....

Izm.





I know exactly where you're coming from. Sometimes we just have writer's block, or can't find and/or build the palette we are looking for..... BUT might not already recognize we have it..........somewhere deep in the archives

Re-Visit old work
build on it, get re-inspired. change the old track, delete portions that might not work for you anymore. change some existing sounds in a piece with new patches. Layer Layer Layer


Drum dilema
you can never have enough NEW drum sounds.........even if they are samples of old equipment..........shit i can't get away from 808, 909, & 707 kits......

when starting out, just jack a REX loop and added to a track. You dont always have to keep it, I just cant stand hearing the metronome CLICK CLICK CLICK..... Delete the loop later, or just change the loop & keep the MIDI pattern.........some cool results sometimes...and if the pattern become unclear & too much air.......LAYER another drum pattern over it........

FATTEN EM' UP....
this may sound simple, but create a mclass mastering suite combinator device to your drum modules......in the combi window load a patch, but go to reason factory sound bank/ combinator pathces/ Effect Device Patches / Dynamics

THERE ARE SOME NICE COMPRESSION SETTINGS HERE.....!
NOT Just for drums, but bass lines too

tweak em if you have too

Top 4 components......
4/4 kick...........plain and simple
open hi hats......then a closed one
lush, expansive soft pads not trancey
realizing that you dont always even need a bass line

but if you do

simple subby bass 3-5 notes simple groove type pattern


I'm just a novice with an expensive hobby as wellhttp://deephousepage.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Dj Izm]

Thanks dcook! You provided some great suggestions. Since you're clearly a Reason 4 user, what drums do you start out with? For some odd reason, I'm not finding a "good" open and closed hi hat selection. I really like the Subtractor bass and I love the Alan Smithee strings. It would be great to find something similar to those strings in Logic Pro but I'll keep hunting for that.

Also, I'm trying to program the simple (maybe not) pattern that Tortured Soul's drummer uses for "Might Do Something Wrong." This seems like a "standard" deep house pattern. Maybe I should have asked that question first :grinyes:

Anyway, thanks in advance for the tips and the past advice!
:respent: Peace :respent: