What can one do to increase the value of a car?

[GROOVE VICTIM]

With the exception of keeping records for reutine oil changes, brake repair, and many preventive maintenance procedures, how can I decrease the depreciation rate of my car?

Would it be wise to install new wheels and a better suspension package help increase the overall value of a car or would I be wasting money?

Peace

[ April 11, 2003, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: GROOVE VICTIM ]

[jurren]

they've got these great stickers you can put on your car and it looks like you spilled paint on your car.
or those fake bullet-holes! everyone loves those!

[Cheddar]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
With the exception of keeping records for reutine oil changes, brake repair, and many preventive maintenance procedures, how can I decrease the depreciation rate of my car?

Would it be wise to install new wheels and a better suspension package help increase the overall value of a car or would I be wasting money?

Peace For debate and not speaking from a fact-knowing stance...
I think appreciation potential on a car gets smaller as the days go by. In order to increase value one would need to make substantial modifications...AND NOT USE THE RIDE. But as soon as you take it off the lot the car depreciates so one would need to modify and resell within a short time.

[GROOVE VICTIM]

I own a 1996 Chrysler Cirrus LX. I did an online appraisal of my car and it is now is only worth about 1500 dollars. One of the reasons why the value dropped so low was because Chrysler killed this product line about 3 years ago by consolidating their Stratus/Breeze/Cirrus/Sebring/Avenger line to just the Dodge Stratus and the Chrysler Sebring.

Since 2000, the year I purchased the car, I've kept the car in pretty good shape, it can use a paint job but it's nothing of concern at this moment. I expected two years from now when I decide to purchase a newer car that I would be able to trade it in for at least 1500 dollars, but that's the going price for the car now unfortunately.

Any suggestions?

Peace

[ April 11, 2003, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: GROOVE VICTIM ]

[AD]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
would I be wasting money?

Yes. Trust me on this. I learned it the hard way. :(

[JMJ]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
With the exception of keeping records for reutine oil changes, brake repair, and many preventive maintenance procedures, how can I decrease the depreciation rate of my car?

Would it be wise to install new wheels and a better suspension package help increase the overall value of a car or would I be wasting money?

Peace You would be wasting money. Adding aftermarket accessories can actually HURT the trade-in value of your car. Keep in mind that the NEXT prospective buyer may not want 24" wheels, that fancy paint job, hydraulics, etc. There are no adds in the NADA Black Book for those items. Dealers prefer trade-ins to be as close to original equipent as possible. If you put a nice soundsystem or DVD in the car, take it out if you can before trading. They add absolutely NO value to your car. Keep the factory radio and re-install it. Other than not driving your car (which would be stupid), there's very little you can do to slow the rate of depreciation. When buying a new car, you lose 20% the minute you drive it off the lot, 30% after the first year, and 50-60% after 3 years. The make, model, and trim level also make a difference. Kia, Daewoo, Suzuki, and Hyundai depreciate more rapidly than any other make, and of the non-luxury cars, Toyota and Honda have a better residual value than most, due mainly to being low maintenence, reliable, long-lasting cars. If you have a car that still has some of the factory warranty left, and are thinking about trading, do it before the warranty expires. Your car's value takes a hit after the factory warranty expires because a dealer or private-party owner can still get things covered if need be while the original factory warranty is intact because it is transferrable. If you are really concerned about depreciation, here are my suggestions dependig on your budget: Buy a 4-5 year old car with lower miles, or.....Buy a 1-2 year old car still covered by a portion of the factory warranty, or....LEASE!!! Let the bank or manufacturer worry about the depreciation, and drive more car for less money. Honda and Toyota traditionally lease well because they hold their value. Less repair costs too, because the car is under warranty for the majority, if not all of the lease period. PM me if you have any more questions......JMJ

[MC]

Also, you might want to try selling your car to a private buyer rather than trading it in to a dealership. Although, it might take longer to sell thru the paper, sometimes you can get more money for it. My wife wanted to trade in her 1997 Ford Explorer, and they only offered $8,000 for it. I see people asking 10k+ for the same car in the newspaper! I was curious to see what they would give me for me car (96 Lexus ES300), man they said $10,000, I was so upset because I know they would turn around and sell it for probably double!!! I know they're in business to make money, but DAMN! Anyway, just my .02 cents!!

[ April 11, 2003, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Michael J. Carmona ]

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
With the exception of keeping records for reutine oil changes, brake repair, and many preventive maintenance procedures, how can I decrease the depreciation rate of my car?

Would it be wise to install new wheels and a better suspension package help increase the overall value of a car or would I be wasting money?

Peace You would be wasting money. Adding aftermarket accessories can actually HURT the trade-in value of your car. Keep in mind that the NEXT prospective buyer may not want 24" wheels, that fancy paint job, hydraulics, etc. There are no adds in the NADA Black Book for those items. Dealers prefer trade-ins to be as close to original equipent as possible. If you put a nice soundsystem or DVD in the car, take it out if you can before trading. They add absolutely NO value to your car. Keep the factory radio and re-install it. Other than not driving your car (which would be stupid), there's very little you can do to slow the rate of depreciation. When buying a new car, you lose 20% the minute you drive it off the lot, 30% after the first year, and 50-60% after 3 years. The make, model, and trim level also make a difference. Kia, Daewoo, Suzuki, and Hyundai depreciate more rapidly than any other make, and of the non-luxury cars, Toyota and Honda have a better residual value than most, due mainly to being low maintenence, reliable, long-lasting cars. If you have a car that still has some of the factory warranty left, and are thinking about trading, do it before the warranty expires. Your car's value takes a hit after the factory warranty expires because a dealer or private-party owner can still get things covered if need be while the original factory warranty is intact because it is transferrable. If you are really concerned about depreciation, here are my suggestions dependig on your budget: Buy a 4-5 year old car with lower miles, or.....Buy a 1-2 year old car still covered by a portion of the factory warranty, or....LEASE!!! Let the bank or manufacturer worry about the depreciation, and drive more car for less money. Honda and Toyota traditionally lease well because they hold their value. Less repair costs too, because the car is under warranty for the majority, if not all of the lease period. PM me if you have any more questions......JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not screwing around with Leases. I had planned on putting down a good portion of cash for down payment plus a trade in. Again, this won't be happening for another two years and I'm confident that I won't be stuck with a lemon when that time comes because the car has been good to me. I just don't want to be stuck with the constant nickel and diming for car repairs, this was the case with the last car I had.


Peace

[mhd]

great comments, especially jmj; what is the mileage? by the way, please keep the dialogue here on the board, this is good stuff.

the milaeage on your ride is prolly between 70 and 100k, another way of looking at it is what is the cost to replace your vehicle, especially if its running well

[JMJ]

Originally posted by Michael J. Carmona:
Also, you might want to try selling your car to a private buyer rather than trading it in to a dealership. Although, it might take longer to sell thru the paper, sometimes you can get more money for it. My wife wanted to trade in her 1997 Ford Explorer, and they only offered $8,000 for it. I see people asking 10k+ for the same car in the newspaper! I was curious to see what they would give me for me car (96 Lexus ES300), man they said $10,000, I was so upset because I know they would turn around and sell it for probably double!!! I know they're in business to make money, but DAMN! Anyway, just my .02 cents!! The average consumer has no idea what car is truly worth. $10 k for yuor 96 Lexus is actually VERY reasonable, and I'll tell you why. The ES 300 is nothing more than a fancy Toyota Camry, and while it's a great car, what's the TRUE market value for a 7 year old car??? Kee in mind that the dealer could probably BUY the same car at auction for less, stil has to prep and perform minor repairs on the car for resale, has to insure and finance the car until it's sold, has to pay to advertise the car so people know it's there, has sales commisions that come out of the profit, etc. etc. In the real world, a 96 Lexus ES 300 is probably a $13-15K car RETAIL if the miles are right, and depending on the trim level, and most prospective buyers are going to try to whittle down the price anyway. Should have taken the offer. $8000 for the 97 Explorer was pretty accurate also.....JMJ

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by mhd:
great comments, especially jmj; what is the mileage? by the way, please keep the dialogue here on the board, this is good stuff.

the milaeage on your ride is prolly between 70 and 100k, another way of looking at it is what is the cost to replace your vehicle, especially if its running well The car has 150,000 miles and I know this really screwd the value of the car due to commuting to work and trips to NYC and other places. Two weeks ago when I had the front brakes replaced, they told me that overall the car was in good shape, a few nicks here or there but nothing major. I have to get the rack and pinion replaced and I already know how to save money on gettin this fixed because of past experiences. I keep the interior clean, and I have a set schedule for oil changes, tire rotation, fluid refills and drainage, and major tune ups.

Peace

[mhd]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
great comments, especially jmj; what is the mileage? by the way, please keep the dialogue here on the board, this is good stuff.

the milaeage on your ride is prolly between 70 and 100k, another way of looking at it is what is the cost to replace your vehicle, especially if its running well The car has 150,000 miles and I know this really screwd the value of the car due to commuting to work and trips to NYC and other places. Two weeks ago when I had the front brakes replaced, they told me that overall the car was in good shape, a few nicks here or there but nothing major. I have to get the rack and pinion replaced and I already know how to save money on gettin this fixed because of past experiences. I keep the interior clean, and I have a set schedule for oil changes, tire rotation, fluid refills and drainage, and major tune ups.

Peace </font>[/QUOTE]damn, bruh, you gotta say that you got your money's worth out of that car, if that was a honda you could get another 100k out of it easy.

[MC]

Originally posted by JMJ:
The average consumer has no idea what car is truly worth. $10 k for yuor 96 Lexus is actually VERY reasonable, and I'll tell you why. The ES 300 is nothing more than a fancy Toyota Camry, and while it's a great car, what's the TRUE market value for a 7 year old car??? Kee in mind that the dealer could probably BUY the same car at auction for less, stil has to prep and perform minor repairs on the car for resale, has to insure and finance the car until it's sold, has to pay to advertise the car so people know it's there, has sales commisions that come out of the profit, etc. etc. In the real world, a 96 Lexus ES 300 is probably a $13-15K car RETAIL if the miles are right, and depending on the trim level, and most prospective buyers are going to try to whittle down the price anyway. Should have taken the offer. $8000 for the 97 Explorer was pretty accurate also.....JMJ Yeah, maybe we should have taken the offer on the 97 Explorer, but we didn't. It just didn't feel right at the time plus both of our cars are almost paid for. My wife just wants a new car!
I can undsterand that, but I told her she can get what she wants if she waits....! Anyway, I didn't think about the extra cost the dealership would have to pay just to sell the car. Very interesting stuff, thanks for the insight JMJ!

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
great comments, especially jmj; what is the mileage? by the way, please keep the dialogue here on the board, this is good stuff.

the milaeage on your ride is prolly between 70 and 100k, another way of looking at it is what is the cost to replace your vehicle, especially if its running well The car has 150,000 miles and I know this really screwd the value of the car due to commuting to work and trips to NYC and other places. Two weeks ago when I had the front brakes replaced, they told me that overall the car was in good shape, a few nicks here or there but nothing major. I have to get the rack and pinion replaced and I already know how to save money on gettin this fixed because of past experiences. I keep the interior clean, and I have a set schedule for oil changes, tire rotation, fluid refills and drainage, and major tune ups.

Peace </font>[/QUOTE]damn, bruh, you gotta say that you got your money's worth out of that car, if that was a honda you could get another 100k out of it easy. </font>[/QUOTE]This is definately true MHD. I've never had a major problem with this car up until now and I believe that the rack and pinion issue is justifyable. Figure that the car is already 7 years old and no major problems with the engine, transmission, drive train, that's pretty damn good. At www.autobytel.com (http://www.autobytel.com) they have a link in which you can input the VIN number of your vehicle to see if your car was in an accident or had major repairs, and the car was never in any of these situations.


Peace

[MC]

Originally posted by JMJ:
The ES 300 is nothing more than a fancy Toyota CamryI plan on getting the GS300 later on down the line! We'll have to wait and see.

[JMJ]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
With the exception of keeping records for reutine oil changes, brake repair, and many preventive maintenance procedures, how can I decrease the depreciation rate of my car?

Would it be wise to install new wheels and a better suspension package help increase the overall value of a car or would I be wasting money?

Peace You would be wasting money. Adding aftermarket accessories can actually HURT the trade-in value of your car. Keep in mind that the NEXT prospective buyer may not want 24" wheels, that fancy paint job, hydraulics, etc. There are no adds in the NADA Black Book for those items. Dealers prefer trade-ins to be as close to original equipent as possible. If you put a nice soundsystem or DVD in the car, take it out if you can before trading. They add absolutely NO value to your car. Keep the factory radio and re-install it. Other than not driving your car (which would be stupid), there's very little you can do to slow the rate of depreciation. When buying a new car, you lose 20% the minute you drive it off the lot, 30% after the first year, and 50-60% after 3 years. The make, model, and trim level also make a difference. Kia, Daewoo, Suzuki, and Hyundai depreciate more rapidly than any other make, and of the non-luxury cars, Toyota and Honda have a better residual value than most, due mainly to being low maintenence, reliable, long-lasting cars. If you have a car that still has some of the factory warranty left, and are thinking about trading, do it before the warranty expires. Your car's value takes a hit after the factory warranty expires because a dealer or private-party owner can still get things covered if need be while the original factory warranty is intact because it is transferrable. If you are really concerned about depreciation, here are my suggestions dependig on your budget: Buy a 4-5 year old car with lower miles, or.....Buy a 1-2 year old car still covered by a portion of the factory warranty, or....LEASE!!! Let the bank or manufacturer worry about the depreciation, and drive more car for less money. Honda and Toyota traditionally lease well because they hold their value. Less repair costs too, because the car is under warranty for the majority, if not all of the lease period. PM me if you have any more questions......JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not screwing around with Leases. I had planned on putting down a good portion of cash for down payment plus a trade in. Again, this won't be happening for another two years and I'm confident that I won't be stuck with a lemon when that time comes because the car has been good to me. I just don't want to be stuck with the constant nickel and diming for car repairs, this was the case with the last car I had.


Peace </font>[/QUOTE]Interesting statement, Groove. You want to OWN the car, right?? Don't want to nickel and dime for repairs?? So I'm guessing your looking to BUY new???? OK. Will you own the car the minute you drive it off the lot?? NO. If you finance the car, which it sounds like you will, do you realixe that each $1000 only lowers your car payment roughly $15 a month, based on a 60 month purchase agreement?? You could save $1000 by trading or selling your car now, because your $1500 becomes a $500 car (maybe) two years from now. Since the bank will own the car for the first 5 years, unless you pay it off sooner (most people don't), be prepared to spend another $2000 on an extended service contract to cover the repairs you incur after the factory warranty expires, or you can nickle and dime it without one and take your chances. Dodge and Chrysler offer no-charge 7 year/70,000 mile powertrain warranties on all new cars. This might be a good option if you want another Chrysler product. Toyota offers 5 years or 60,000 miles, which is good also. Don't want to consider leasing?? OK. After you've traded your car, gave the dealer the down payment you saved up, and paid 5 years (if not longer) for the car that the bank still owns, you finally get the title. Title to what ??? A five year old car with probably 70-80,000 miles on it. Does that sound good?? YOU OWN IT. Chances are you paid all that money over such a long period of time for something your not really thrilled about these days. Now what's it worth??? See, it's a never-ending cycle. Still not interested in leasing, huh?? You could trade your car in RIGHT NOW, keep the money IN THE BANK, find a car that fits your NEEDS and your BUDGET, drive it away with a full factory warranty, enjoy it for 3 or 4 years, turn it in or buy it (you have the option) at lease-end, and drive another NEW car. Let the bank or manufacturer worry about depreciation. They're responsible for that vehicle after you turn it in. LET THEM TAKE THE HIT, NOT YOU. Worried about miles?? The average lease is figured at 15,000 miles a year now. That's 1,250 a month, or roughly 290 miles a week, which is plenty for most drivers. Unfortunately, buying a car is a losing proposition because unlike a house, it's depreciates. There's very little you can do about it, but for most people, a car is a necessity. PM me if I can help you with ay more info......JMJ

[JMJ]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
great comments, especially jmj; what is the mileage? by the way, please keep the dialogue here on the board, this is good stuff.

the milaeage on your ride is prolly between 70 and 100k, another way of looking at it is what is the cost to replace your vehicle, especially if its running well The car has 150,000 miles and I know this really screwd the value of the car due to commuting to work and trips to NYC and other places. Two weeks ago when I had the front brakes replaced, they told me that overall the car was in good shape, a few nicks here or there but nothing major. I have to get the rack and pinion replaced and I already know how to save money on gettin this fixed because of past experiences. I keep the interior clean, and I have a set schedule for oil changes, tire rotation, fluid refills and drainage, and major tune ups.

Peace </font>[/QUOTE]150,000 miles???? Get rid of it now if you can. DON"T SPEND ANOTHER DIME ON THAT CAR!!! If there is a dealer that wll trade you out of it, "as-is", for $1500, take it!!!! Anymore money spent on that car is money wasted. You already are creating a monthly payment in repairs for a car that you OWN. Don't do it.....JMJ

[ April 11, 2003, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: JMJ ]

[mhd]

great comments, JMJ, honestly, lease payments seem to be at an all-time low nowadays. good points, EXCEPT, you assume that driving a new car is important. the last two cars i bought were over 7 years old, the newest car i own is 11 years old. i have three cars an 89 and two from 92

[GROOVE VICTIM]

5 months from now I will own my car. When I purchased this one back in 2000, I put 1500 down and 500 for a trade in. I manage to get a payment of 220 a month for 36 months. It worked out for me and I'm happy that I was able to take control of the negotiations while looking at the car.

What I don't understand is thie:

There's this teacher I worked with who recently purchased a 2002 Chevy Tahoe. She had a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix and she says that she got screwd on her payments. She's now making over 600 buck in monthly payments. She traded in her Grand Prix for about 8 grand. How in D hail can she be making payments that high on a Teachers salary.

People at work constantly telling me to trade it in, trade it in, yeah right, I'm in too deep. This will be another debt out of my hair and I can use that remaining money to pay off other debts and add to the savings for my son's future. Again, I won't considering looking for another car until I have all my debts payed off, but the repair on the rack and pinion gave me a serious reality check for this will be the most expensive repair I've had on the car.

[JMJ]

Originally posted by mhd:
great comments, JMJ, honestly, lease payments seem to be at an all-time low nowadays. good points, EXCEPT, you assume that driving a new car is important. the last two cars i bought were over 7 years old, the newest car i own is 11 years old. i have three cars an 89 and two from 92 Certainly nothing wrong with buying older cars, particularly Honda or Toyota. Groove isn't going to trade his seven year old car for another seven year old car though, which is why I suggested the three scenarios in my earlier post. To avoid nickel and diming or repairs, warranty is important, and since he's talking about a down payment, he's obviously financing, so he should be looking at a 'newer" car. with the economy in the shape it's currently in, it's a buyer's market. That was my point....JMJ

[lola desire]

sounds like what you all are saying is buy the car you want (or can afford--damn you dream car!!!), drive it for as long as it can go and don't expect too much on the trade cuz it's hopeless anyway???

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by mhd:
great comments, JMJ, honestly, lease payments seem to be at an all-time low nowadays. good points, EXCEPT, you assume that driving a new car is important. the last two cars i bought were over 7 years old, the newest car i own is 11 years old. i have three cars an 89 and two from 92 Right now, I don't have the credit to qualify for a lease, plus I don't want to be stuck with penalties such as, going over the miles allocated per year, and what ever else is in the fine print.
I'll probably never look into buying a new car, but something that's atlease 3 to five years old.

Peace

[mhd]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
5 months from now I will own my car. When I purchased this one back in 2000, I put 1500 down and 500 for a trade in. I manage to get a payment of 220 a month for 36 months. It worked out for me and I'm happy that I was able to take control of the negotiations while looking at the car.

What I don't understand is thie:

There's this teacher I worked with who recently purchased a 2002 Chevy Tahoe. She had a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix and she says that she got screwd on her payments. She's now making over 600 buck in monthly payments. She traded in her Grand Prix for about 8 grand. How in D hail can she be making payments that high on a Teachers salary.

People at work constantly telling me to trade it in, trade it in, yeah right, I'm in too deep. This will be another debt out of my hair and I can use that remaining money to pay off other debts and add to the savings for my son's future. Again, I won't considering looking for another car until I have all my debts payed off, but the repair on the rack and pinion gave me a serious reality check for this will be the most expensive repair I've had on the car. that't the thing groove, if it was a honda i would say keep driving it, you got reliable transpo and no car note, but i just don't think a cirrus was built for the long haul

[GROOVE VICTIM]

True indeed MHD, which reminds me. I was asked about a year ago about my car and if it had any major problems from a couple of people who owned Plymouth Breezes and Dodge Stratus's. I told them no and went on my very way but your comments about the "long haul" I should really take into consideration. This was one of those economy cab foward designs that Chrysler had in the mid nineties. The car sold like hot cakes but when they came out with the Plymouth Breeze, it killed the sales for the Cirrus. These cars saturate the Rental market now. This is one thing I need to take into consideration also.

Peace

[mhd]

Originally posted by lola desire:
sounds like what you all are saying is buy the car you want (or can afford--damn you dream car!!!), drive it for as long as it can go and don't expect too much on the trade cuz it's hopeless anyway??? first thing is to realize that a car is a depreciating asset as opposed to a house which, (usually) is an appreciating asset. my advice is to get reliable, cheap, safe transportation. better yet, don't buy a car at all if you live in a city with good public transportation, and rent a car when you need one. in most cases a car is a tool, like a shovel, computer or a ****ing stapler. its not a reflection of you. that is why groove's co-worker is paying a mortgage on a car note.

[Raven Fox]

great topic graemlins/grinyes.gif

good luck with your car Groove Victim
them trips to NY are a b*tch / plus towing fees, dayum graemlins/grinyes.gif (remember that love committee party)

i'm in the market.
what (IYO) is the best car for the money right now.

comfort, space & good gas mileage are my biggest interests in a brand new 2004 car

was also looking at alternative energy cars
natural gas / hybrids (kinda expensive though)

thanks for all that information JMJ - it opened my mind to alot of things

[ April 11, 2003, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Raven Fox ]

[GROOVE VICTIM]

The hybrids can be used as a Tax right off but there are in the 30 to 40 thousand dollar range. I'm hearing great news about the new Toyota Camrys and Nissan Altimas. I suggested an Altima to another co-worker and she's very happy with hers.

Peace

[sr hadden]

make it look like a VOLVO 480

peace

[Raven Fox]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
The hybrids can be used as a Tax right off but there are in the 30 to 40 thousand dollar range. I'm hearing great news about the new Toyota Camrys and Nissan Altimas. I suggested an Altima to another co-worker and she's very happy with hers.

Peace i test drove a honda insight / electric gas that charges itself - you never have to plug it in.
$22k

i don't know - i'm not feeling the altima or camry.

Did you know that the Camry is like the MOST stolen and jacked up car (read this somewhere)

[GROOVE VICTIM]

That goes for the Camry, the Accord and the Civic. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Ultima on that list soon. I haven't heard much about the new Mazda 6, I don't think it will be a savior to the company but you can't beat the price.

[imported_Gman]

Groove,

If the car is in good shape keep it until you feel that it is no longer reliable and repairs (beyond normal wear and tear) are to high. You own it, no payments no interest. Pay off your other debts before you consider going into another car loan or a lease.

I just got rid of my 1988 Honda Civic that I had for 15 years. I sold it for $1000.00. I felt it was no longer reliable for long trips. I purchased a 2 year old Honda Accord LX for $11,500 cash.

I have never considered a lease. What I heard is that after the lease period you have nothin and then you can either buy the car from them for more than its worth or go into another lease. I also heard that they have high milage penalties and you better turn that car back to them in great shape or there are more penalties. This is just what I heard. Can someone tell me their honest experiences with leasing.

[mhd]

Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
great comments, JMJ, honestly, lease payments seem to be at an all-time low nowadays. good points, EXCEPT, you assume that driving a new car is important. the last two cars i bought were over 7 years old, the newest car i own is 11 years old. i have three cars an 89 and two from 92 Certainly nothing wrong with buying older cars, particularly Honda or Toyota. Groove isn't going to trade his seven year old car for another seven year old car though, which is why I suggested the three scenarios in my earlier post. To avoid nickel and diming or repairs, warranty is important, and since he's talking about a down payment, he's obviously financing, so he should be looking at a 'newer" car. with the economy in the shape it's currently in, it's a buyer's market. That was my point....JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]agreed! its definitely a buyers market. i don't think there is anything wrong with your ideas, just different philosophy, i got a friend who thinks exactly like you do. he likes the idea of not having to pay for repairs, for me, i don't mind, that is part of the game of selecting a reliable car, of course its not foolproof and you can get burned. on the other hand, what are the financial implications of financing an extended warranty?

if i bought a new mercedes s43o in 2000 for about 90k, today you can get that car for 40k that's 50k in 4 years, and the car is still fly

also, i would buy a 7 year old honda in a heartbeat

[JMJ]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
5 months from now I will own my car. When I purchased this one back in 2000, I put 1500 down and 500 for a trade in. I manage to get a payment of 220 a month for 36 months. It worked out for me and I'm happy that I was able to take control of the negotiations while looking at the car.

What I don't understand is thie:

There's this teacher I worked with who recently purchased a 2002 Chevy Tahoe. She had a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix and she says that she got screwd on her payments. She's now making over 600 buck in monthly payments. She traded in her Grand Prix for about 8 grand. How in D hail can she be making payments that high on a Teachers salary.

People at work constantly telling me to trade it in, trade it in, yeah right, I'm in too deep. This will be another debt out of my hair and I can use that remaining money to pay off other debts and add to the savings for my son's future. Again, I won't considering looking for another car until I have all my debts payed off, but the repair on the rack and pinion gave me a serious reality check for this will be the most expensive repair I've had on the car. You need to dump that car now!! With five months remainig on you installment contract, you still OWE $1100, and you've gt a bad rack-and pinion?? After you fix the steering (which you shouldn't), can you guarantee that nothing else will go wrong in the next five months?? Of course not!! And why invest another $1100 plus repairs in a $1500 car?? You'll ever get that money back. You are driving a money pit. Dump it immediately.
As for your teacher friend, she screwed herself by trading in a two year old car. If you can buy a new Grand Prix with a $3000 rebate or zero percent financing, what do you think that does to the value of her car???? KILLS IT. As for the $600 a month payment, I'll share the formula that most lenders use. Car payments should not equal more than 20% of total income, with installment loan income (rent or mortgage, car, credit cards, etc.) not exceeding 50%. If she had a payoff on the Grand Prix, chances are that she was "upside-down" in that car, meaning she owed more that what it was worth. 85-90% of all buyers that finance are in this category, unless they had trade equity or a large down payment equal to or greater than the finance charges added to the price of the car. This is why it's difficult to trade out during the first three years of a five year contract. Zero-down advertisements don't help either. The buyer gets stuck in a car they don't own and can't trade, and the dealer loses a prospective buyer that's unlikely to ever come back because they feel like they got "screwed", even though they screwed themselves. The dealer merely set out the original bait. Had your teacher friend leased her 2001 Grand Prix, she could've waited a year, leased or bought the Tahoe and likely would've had a lower monthly payment......JMJ

[ April 11, 2003, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: JMJ ]

[julian_kelly]

In a sense, a car isnt really an asset...it doesnt make you money. Cars dont apprecaite in value - unless youre talking about rare well kept antiques.. and its still difficulet for that to happen.

A car is a liability...it takes money out of your pocket. Even if you own it outright, it still takes money out of your pocket every month, i.e. gas, washing, parts, maintenance, insurance, etc.


I wouldnt spend any more money than required for unnecessary repairs or utilize money in ways to try to increase the trade in value. Car salsesmen haggle extremely hard to decrease the value of your trade in and are more often than naught successful because they have information the average consumer doesnt. Also concerning supply and demand, the demand for your type of car really isnt great. A dealer can get a Crysler anywhere, therefore the dealer isnt going to overpay for book (whether youve kept it in good shape or not) when they get the same car for less at an automobile auction.

Spend that additional money on buying things that will make you money and not on unnecessary repairs. $1,000 compounded now in a traditional or nontraditional asset with a good interest rate over time will make you more money than if you spent it on car repairs.

peace
julian kelly

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Good points JMJ and Gman.

The main issue to me now is the risk. Out of habit, due to a thrown rod on a car I had back in the mid nineties, I always ask my mechanic to check the engine and the transmission.

I understand what you're saying JMJ about putting money into the car, sort of like getting an old TV repaired when you can use that money to purchase a new one.

I have to agree with Gman with the fact that I'd rather be financially free from any type of debt before and have money set aside for investments before I make another decision to purchase another car.

Prior to purchasing the car I read up on the terms and conditions of leasing a car. IMO there's just too much at stake with a lease. Yes the payments are lower, but you have to have faily decent credit and you must agree to the guidelines of the lease to avoid any penalties.

Peace

[mhd]

exactly, julian, i even started to edit my comment that a car was a depreciating "asset"

[fred da warrior]

This thread already belongs in the greatest threads category.

[JMJ]

Originally posted by Raven Fox:
great topic graemlins/grinyes.gif

good luck with your car Groove Victim
them trips to NY are a b*tch / plus towing fees, dayum graemlins/grinyes.gif (remember that love committee party)

i'm in the market.
what (IYO) is the best car for the money right now.

comfort, space & good gas mileage are my biggest interests in a brand new 2004 car

was also looking at alternative energy cars
natural gas / hybrids (kinda expensive though)

thanks for all that information JMJ - it opened my mind to alot of things Go look at the Toyota Prius. It's a hybrid ( half-electric/ half gas), recharges itself, has an excellent warranty, and is simple to maintain. I used to work for Toyota as a district sales manager in the Chicago Zone, so I know a little bit about the Prius. Toyota had, and my still have a routine maintenence program included for the first 3 years/36,000 miles which includded oil changes. Go to www.toyota.com/prius (http://www.toyota.com/prius) to build your own car. Initally, the Prius was only offered online, meaning you ordered the car on the Toyota site, specified the dealer where you were going to pick up the car, etc. The dealer would then get the purchase request, set an appointment to finalize the sale, authorize Toyota to build the car, which took 4 months. Dealers weren't able to stock the car, although most had one for display purposes. I don't know if their still handling Prius sales this way, but nonetheless, it's an excellent car for the money. I believe Honda is doing a hybrid Civic now, and expect the hybrid offerings to expand in the next couple years. Corollas and Camrys may have a hybrid modekl from what I hear. 50 miles a gallon is a good thing......JMJ

[Raven Fox]

Originally posted by Gman:
Groove,

If the car is in good shape keep it until you feel that it is no longer reliable and repairs (beyond normal wear and tear) are to high. You own it, no payments no interest. Pay off your other debts before you consider going into another car loan or a lease.

I just got rid of my 1988 Honda Civic that I had for 15 years. I sold it for $1000.00. I felt it was no longer reliable for long trips. I purchased a 2 year old Honda Accord LX for $11,500 cash.

I have never considered a lease. What I heard is that after the lease period you have nothin and then you can either buy the car from them for more than its worth or go into another lease. I also heard that they have high milage penalties and you better turn that car back to them in great shape or there are more penalties. This is just what I heard. Can someone tell me their honest experiences with leasing. good advice - keep the car until it goes beyond normal wear and tear costs - I hate paying mechanics for major repairs.

Leasing is cool if you want to drive a new car every year or few years - that way you can trade it in for something else during the lease intervals. Also consider how much you drive because those mileage penalties can get crazy.
with the way cars depreciate so fast (as soon as u drive them off the lot) at least you know the dealer will take care of the car as well / there are some warranty plans that cover any problems you might have while you drive that leased car / which is a brand new or fairly new vehicle. I don't recommend leasing to anybody because they DO get you in the end by trying to sell you the car for JUST about what the blue book says (even after you already paid all that money (which doesn't go into equity - if so, not very much it).

[GROOVE VICTIM]

I have another question in terms of financing. What's a good rate at which a "Used" car should be financed. Currently my rate is 11 percent. The financing company wanted damn near 15 percent and I wanted around 8 or nine. I damn near walked out of the office and the guy compromised by giving me 11 percent. I did the math at it was well within my budget.

Peace

[ April 11, 2003, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: GROOVE VICTIM ]

[Balactus]

i just want any car. :(
i'm sick of walking.

an el camino would be nice.

or a vespa i'd pimp around town on a scooter i don't care what anybody thinks.

w

[JMJ]

Originally posted by Raven Fox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
The hybrids can be used as a Tax right off but there are in the 30 to 40 thousand dollar range. I'm hearing great news about the new Toyota Camrys and Nissan Altimas. I suggested an Altima to another co-worker and she's very happy with hers.

Peace i test drove a honda insight / electric gas that charges itself - you never have to plug it in.
$22k

i don't know - i'm not feeling the altima or camry.

Did you know that the Camry is like the MOST stolen and jacked up car (read this somewhere) </font>[/QUOTE]Avoid the Insight...A Prius or hybrid Civic is a much better option. The Prius retails between $21-24,000 and is eligible for a $2000 tax deduction.....JMJ

[mhd]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
I have another question in terms of financing. What's a good rate at which a "Used" car should be financed. Currently my rate is 11 percent. The financing company wanted damn near 15 percent and I wanted around 8 or nine. I damn near walked out of the office and the guy compromised by giving me 11 percent. I did the math at it was well within my budget.

Peace i wonder what he would have offered if you walked. actually, financing should be zero, i the best case scenario

[GROOVE VICTIM]

If I make a trip up to Chicago, will I see JMJ in any car dealer commercials?


graemlins/rofl.gif


Guys, I really appreciate all of the knowledge placed in this thread.


Another question, should I stay with domestic cars or go import?

Gman, for the price you purchased for that Accord LX, that's a damn steal!!


graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[TAD]

Before http://www.rpmotorworks.com/images/mechanic_fixing_car_lg_wht.gif

After http://www.motorsportunderground.com/Stories/Super%20Chevy%202002/Super%20Chevy%20images/Low-Rider.jpg

[Raven Fox]

Originally posted by JMJ:
[QUOTE]Go look at the Toyota Prius. It's a hybrid ( half-electric/ half gas), recharges itself, has an excellent warranty, and is simple to maintain. I used to work for Toyota as a district sales manager in the Chicago Zone, so I know a little bit about the Prius. Toyota had, and my still have a routine maintenence program included for the first 3 years/36,000 miles which includded oil changes. Go to www.toyota.com/prius (http://www.toyota.com/prius) to build your own car. Initally, the Prius was only offered online, meaning you ordered the car on the Toyota site, specified the dealer where you were going to pick up the car, etc. The dealer would then get the purchase request, set an appointment to finalize the sale, authorize Toyota to build the car, which took 4 months. Dealers weren't able to stock the car, although most had one for display purposes. I don't know if their still handling Prius sales this way, but nonetheless, it's an excellent car for the money. I believe Honda is doing a hybrid Civic now, and expect the hybrid offerings to expand in the next couple years. Corollas and Camrys may have a hybrid modekl from what I hear. 50 miles a gallon is a good thing......JMJ The PRIUS is dope... 566 miles per tank.
yes, i've been eyeing all of those developments.

http://www.toyota.com/images/shop/vehicles/gallery/prius/exterior/photo_2.jpg

What do you think of the GM EV1s - other than outrageously expensive upfront / but longterm fuel savings. plug it in... plug it in...

http://www.gmev.com/gallery/gallery_images/ev1_profile.jpg

JMJ I should have guessed you did some auto industry gig. graemlins/grinyes.gif

thanks

[ April 11, 2003, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Raven Fox ]

[julian_kelly]

If you really want to witness the automobile industry in action, try to visit a 'dealers only auction' (obviously an auction that only dealers can attend).

I know a cat who is a dealer and I hung out there with him for a day. Giant car leasing businesses like Avis were getting rid of thier inventory. To my knowledge, hardly any of the cars were recked; cars anywhere from a few months old to 5 years old.

Dealers were buying used Tahoes, Suburbans, Expeditions, Land Cruisers and other large SUVS for anywhere from $7,000 to $15,000. The only time a dealer spent around $15,000 for a SUV of this type was because several dealers were bidding on it and got too 'emotionally tied' to the vehicle and they unnecessarily bid the price up. You can figure they will turn around and sell that SUV for $30-$40 or more. Talk about a 100% return on your cash. Ford Tauruses/Honda Accord/Toyota Camary/Nissan Maximas were selling from $5,000 to 7,000. You figure the dealer will sell them for $12,000-$20,000. Add warranties, financing and other perks to the car and the dealers gets good loot.

Ive considered partnering with a very small locally owned car dealer...fronting them money to buy cars and getting a good chunk on my money fast in return. Why be eaten as a car buyer when when you can do the eating ??? graemlins/rofl.gif but honestly I dont know if my conscious will let me do it graemlins/rofl.gif biggrinangel.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

peace
julian kelly

[mhd]

Originally posted by julian_kelly:
If you really want to witness the automobile industry in action, try to visit a 'dealers only auction' (obviously an auction that only dealers can attend).

I know a cat who is a dealer and I hung out there with him for a day. Giant car leasing businesses like Avis were getting rid of thier inventory. To my knowledge, hardly any of the cars were recked; cars anywhere from a few months old to 5 years old.

Dealers were buying used Tahoes, Suburbans, Expeditions, Land Cruisers and other large SUVS for anywhere from $7,000 to $15,000. The only time a dealer spent around $15,000 for a SUV of this type was because several dealers were bidding on it and got too 'emotionally tied' to the vehicle and they unnecessarily bid the price up. You can figure they will turn around and sell that SUV for $30-$40 or more. Talk about a 100% return on your cash. Ford Tauruses/Honda Accord/Toyota Camary/Nissan Maximas were selling from $5,000 to 7,000. You figure the dealer will sell them for $12,000-$20,000. Add warranties, financing and other perks to the car and the dealers gets good loot.

Ive considered partnering with a very small locally owned car dealer...fronting them money to buy cars and getting a good chunk on my money fast in return. Why be eaten as a car buyer when when you can do the eating ??? graemlins/rofl.gif but honestly I dont know if my conscious will let me do it graemlins/rofl.gif biggrinangel.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

peace
julian kelly was that the Highline auction in Pennsylvania?

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by julian_kelly:
If you really want to witness the automobile industry in action, try to visit a 'dealers only auction' (obviously an auction that only dealers can attend).

I know a cat who is a dealer and I hung out there with him for a day. Giant car leasing businesses like Avis were getting rid of thier inventory. To my knowledge, hardly any of the cars were recked; cars anywhere from a few months old to 5 years old.

Dealers were buying used Tahoes, Suburbans, Expeditions, Land Cruisers and other large SUVS for anywhere from $7,000 to $15,000. The only time a dealer spent around $15,000 for a SUV of this type was because several dealers were bidding on it and got too 'emotionally tied' to the vehicle and they unnecessarily bid the price up. You can figure they will turn around and sell that SUV for $30-$40 or more. Talk about a 100% return on your cash. Ford Tauruses/Honda Accord/Toyota Camary/Nissan Maximas were selling from $5,000 to 7,000. You figure the dealer will sell them for $12,000-$20,000. Add warranties, financing and other perks to the car and the dealers gets good loot.

Ive considered partnering with a very small locally owned car dealer...fronting them money to buy cars and getting a good chunk on my money fast in return. Why be eaten as a car buyer when when you can do the eating ??? graemlins/rofl.gif but honestly I dont know if my conscious will let me do it graemlins/rofl.gif biggrinangel.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

peace
julian kelly Are factory warranties still part of some of these cars that are less than 2 years old if purchased from an auction. I know when I go to the bank to make my monthly payment I see some really nice repossessed cars, SUVs and boats sitting in the parking lot.

[Raven Fox]

Originally posted by julian_kelly:
If you really want to witness the automobile industry in action, try to visit a 'dealers only auction' (obviously an auction that only dealers can attend).

I know a cat who is a dealer and I hung out there with him for a day. Giant car leasing businesses like Avis were getting rid of thier inventory. To my knowledge, hardly any of the cars were recked; cars anywhere from a few months old to 5 years old.

Dealers were buying used Tahoes, Suburbans, Expeditions, Land Cruisers and other large SUVS for anywhere from $7,000 to $15,000. The only time a dealer spent around $15,000 for a SUV of this type was because several dealers were bidding on it and got too 'emotionally tied' to the vehicle and they unnecessarily bid the price up. You can figure they will turn around and sell that SUV for $30-$40 or more. Talk about a 100% return on your cash. Ford Tauruses/Honda Accord/Toyota Camary/Nissan Maximas were selling from $5,000 to 7,000. You figure the dealer will sell them for $12,000-$20,000. Add warranties, financing and other perks to the car and the dealers gets good loot.

Ive considered partnering with a very small locally owned car dealer...fronting them money to buy cars and getting a good chunk on my money fast in return. Why be eaten as a car buyer when when you can do the eating ??? graemlins/rofl.gif but honestly I dont know if my conscious will let me do it graemlins/rofl.gif biggrinangel.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

peace
julian kelly nice one!

there are some public auto auction places in new york & jersey (and i'm sure all over the nation) not on the same level as the dealer exclusive ones - but a good place to get a car quick / with cash (and pray that it's not a lemon that got steam washed, wax, buffed & simonized.

don't take the risk - alot of used auto dealers are fly by night ops. theres a cool film about that whole thing... can't remember the name but it was on Bravo recently. something about a used car lot where these guys had to make money quick and fell on alot of money to have a car sit in their lot for a few days (anybody see this). It was crazy funny.

[ April 11, 2003, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Raven Fox ]

[julian_kelly]

Actually the auction was in Nashville, Tennessee

I assume that every state has a dealer auction of some sort that occurs at a stable location several times a month.


Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by julian_kelly:
If you really want to witness the automobile industry in action, try to visit a 'dealers only auction' (obviously an auction that only dealers can attend).

I know a cat who is a dealer and I hung out there with him for a day. Giant car leasing businesses like Avis were getting rid of thier inventory. To my knowledge, hardly any of the cars were recked; cars anywhere from a few months old to 5 years old.

Dealers were buying used Tahoes, Suburbans, Expeditions, Land Cruisers and other large SUVS for anywhere from $7,000 to $15,000. The only time a dealer spent around $15,000 for a SUV of this type was because several dealers were bidding on it and got too 'emotionally tied' to the vehicle and they unnecessarily bid the price up. You can figure they will turn around and sell that SUV for $30-$40 or more. Talk about a 100% return on your cash. Ford Tauruses/Honda Accord/Toyota Camary/Nissan Maximas were selling from $5,000 to 7,000. You figure the dealer will sell them for $12,000-$20,000. Add warranties, financing and other perks to the car and the dealers gets good loot.

Ive considered partnering with a very small locally owned car dealer...fronting them money to buy cars and getting a good chunk on my money fast in return. Why be eaten as a car buyer when when you can do the eating ??? graemlins/rofl.gif but honestly I dont know if my conscious will let me do it graemlins/rofl.gif biggrinangel.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

peace
julian kelly was that the Highline auction in Pennsylvania? </font>[/QUOTE]

[mhd]

Raven,
actually, if you know what you are doing and have a connect, this is the best way to buy a car, especially if you are trying to buy a luxury car at a (relatively) low price

[Raven Fox]

Originally posted by mhd:
Raven,
actually, if you know what you are doing and have a connect, this is the best way to buy a car, especially if you are trying to buy a luxury car at a (relatively) low price I'm going with JMJ - he's the man.
Luxury is not a priority for me though
This thread is SOOO valuable.
Groove Victim - you struck a nerve.
I hope your situation works out.

I'm like on the phone with the Toyota dealer right now asking about options on a the PRIUS. Thats shit is dooooooooOOOOOOOoooooooope.

Realtime with JMJ.

word to your mother!

[ April 11, 2003, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Raven Fox ]

[julian_kelly]

Im not sure what the warranty situation was on the cars at the dealer auction. I didnt ask too many questions or observe much on that.

At this auction, I believe each car was givin a warning code describing the type of repairs it 'may need.' But to my knowledge no car was rated as or implied to be 'problem free' ... it was an 'as is' situation 'buyer beware' but some cars were guranteed to at least run. But in a dealer having an in-house mechanic, he can easily analyze a problem and make repairs cheap and at cost as they see fit.

Concerning auctions where regular people can attend, I think you buy the car 'as is' with no warranty...but Im not sure because I've never been to one.

julian kelly


Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by julian_kelly:
If you really want to witness the automobile industry in action, try to visit a 'dealers only auction' (obviously an auction that only dealers can attend).

I know a cat who is a dealer and I hung out there with him for a day. Giant car leasing businesses like Avis were getting rid of thier inventory. To my knowledge, hardly any of the cars were recked; cars anywhere from a few months old to 5 years old.

Dealers were buying used Tahoes, Suburbans, Expeditions, Land Cruisers and other large SUVS for anywhere from $7,000 to $15,000. The only time a dealer spent around $15,000 for a SUV of this type was because several dealers were bidding on it and got too 'emotionally tied' to the vehicle and they unnecessarily bid the price up. You can figure they will turn around and sell that SUV for $30-$40 or more. Talk about a 100% return on your cash. Ford Tauruses/Honda Accord/Toyota Camary/Nissan Maximas were selling from $5,000 to 7,000. You figure the dealer will sell them for $12,000-$20,000. Add warranties, financing and other perks to the car and the dealers gets good loot.

Ive considered partnering with a very small locally owned car dealer...fronting them money to buy cars and getting a good chunk on my money fast in return. Why be eaten as a car buyer when when you can do the eating ??? graemlins/rofl.gif but honestly I dont know if my conscious will let me do it graemlins/rofl.gif biggrinangel.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

peace
julian kelly Are factory warranties still part of some of these cars that are less than 2 years old if purchased from an auction. I know when I go to the bank to make my monthly payment I see some really nice repossessed cars, SUVs and boats sitting in the parking lot. </font>[/QUOTE]

[ April 11, 2003, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: julian_kelly ]

[Kenrick _]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Good points JMJ and Gman.


I have to agree with Gman with the fact that I'd rather be financially free from any type of debt before and have money set aside for investments before I make another decision to purchase another car.

Peace speaking from experience, that is the best thing you can do!

i had a money pit lemon also but i had to suck it up and pay for *some* repairs (expecially those that were manditory to pass inspection even at a friendly gas station). i basically alternated paying down my debts and paying for repairs as needed to get me through.

at the end of 2001 i made the last payment on my debt and junked the piece of shit (no one else deserves that headache).

six months later after doing my homework and intensely reviewing all my options as it related to my personal situation, i was sitting in a brand new 2002 civic ex at 4.9% apr (PAY THOSE DEBTS OFF!!).

where i live i need a reliable car to get to school among other places and i did not trust another old car. i tried getting a newer used car but i did not have the cash and the apr's were terrible.

good luck to you groove

[JMJ]

Originally posted by Gman:
Groove,

If the car is in good shape keep it until you feel that it is no longer reliable and repairs (beyond normal wear and tear) are to high. You own it, no payments no interest. Pay off your other debts before you consider going into another car loan or a lease.

I just got rid of my 1988 Honda Civic that I had for 15 years. I sold it for $1000.00. I felt it was no longer reliable for long trips. I purchased a 2 year old Honda Accord LX for $11,500 cash.

I have never considered a lease. What I heard is that after the lease period you have nothin and then you can either buy the car from them for more than its worth or go into another lease. I also heard that they have high milage penalties and you better turn that car back to them in great shape or there are more penalties. This is just what I heard. Can someone tell me their honest experiences with leasing. OK, I'll play devil's advocate here (imagine that)....If you finance a car, new or used and trade out of it before it's payed off, what do you have?? Usually nothing, because not only did you NEVER own the car ( the bank owns it), but unless you had enough trae equity or down payment, the car is worth LESS than what you owe, and unless you come up with MORE money to match or exceed the "negative-equity" in a car you DON'T EVEN OWN, you present a pretty picture to the lender of trying to finance a car with zero or NEGATIVE money down, meaning that the bank now has to ADVANCE more money on the car your trying to buy, which will affect the term and interest rate, if they'll approve the loan at all. Trust me, I see this everyday. People that buy cars this way create a "snow-ball" effect for themselves, effectively "burying" themselves in the cars they drive, yet never actually OWNING anything.
The same person in a lease usually gets a car that fits their budget with the option to by, but no commitment. 15,000 miles a year is standard, and you can build additional mileage into a lease pretty cheaply. Factory warranties are the same whether you purchase or lease. Leases are ideal for people that are normally in a two-three year trade cycle, or people that normally keep cars longer but want lower payments and lower repair costs. Wouldn't it be nice to drive a new car every three years and not worry about expensive repairs that a factory wrranty could cover?? True, at the end of the lease you have nothing, but 3 years into a purchase you may have LESS than nothing. Keep in mind that a lessee can use the lease as a write-off if he or she uses the vehicle for business. If more than 50% of the miles are used for business purposes, that is. What happens at the end of a lease??? The lessee can drive another NEW car, while the buyer may be stuck in a car he or she no longer wants, and unless he or she purchased an extended service contract, the car is out of warranty. As far as getting charged for the condition of a leased car at termination, you should take care of the car the same as if you owned it. A 3 year old car with 45,000 miled should look like a 3 year old car with 45,000 miles. Little things happen, and the bans and manufacturers understand that. Minor scratches are not a problem, but glass is expected to be in good shape, tires should have some life left, paint and interior should still look good, just like the car you'd buy.....Not really a big deal. Lastly, lease customers are usually eligible for re-lease rebates and incentives in addition to whatever is being offered by the factory. Not the case for the average buyer.....JMJ

[TAD]

where's Kelvy after 3 pages? i'm sure he has some insight on this. i certainly don't.

[ April 11, 2003, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Cosmic_Twin ]

[TAD]

[ April 11, 2003, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: Cosmic_Twin ]

[JMJ]

Originally posted by Raven Fox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
Groove,

If the car is in good shape keep it until you feel that it is no longer reliable and repairs (beyond normal wear and tear) are to high. You own it, no payments no interest. Pay off your other debts before you consider going into another car loan or a lease.

I just got rid of my 1988 Honda Civic that I had for 15 years. I sold it for $1000.00. I felt it was no longer reliable for long trips. I purchased a 2 year old Honda Accord LX for $11,500 cash.

I have never considered a lease. What I heard is that after the lease period you have nothin and then you can either buy the car from them for more than its worth or go into another lease. I also heard that they have high milage penalties and you better turn that car back to them in great shape or there are more penalties. This is just what I heard. Can someone tell me their honest experiences with leasing. good advice - keep the car until it goes beyond normal wear and tear costs - I hate paying mechanics for major repairs.

Leasing is cool if you want to drive a new car every year or few years - that way you can trade it in for something else during the lease intervals. Also consider how much you drive because those mileage penalties can get crazy.
with the way cars depreciate so fast (as soon as u drive them off the lot) at least you know the dealer will take care of the car as well / there are some warranty plans that cover any problems you might have while you drive that leased car / which is a brand new or fairly new vehicle. I don't recommend leasing to anybody because they DO get you in the end by trying to sell you the car for JUST about what the blue book says (even after you already paid all that money (which doesn't go into equity - if so, not very much it). </font>[/QUOTE]Keep in mind that in a closed-end lease you have the option to buy, although there's no penalty if you don't. The one thing most "non-leasers" don't understand is that a lease is kind of like gambling, except that YOU'RE the house, and if the bet isn't going you're way, you can walk away from the table.
All leases are figured initially on five basic factors - MSRP of the vehicle, how many miles you'll be driving it yearly, finance charges, residual value, and current incentives (rebates). Money down and /or trade equity figure in later to fine tune the monthly payment. Residual value is the most important factor. The residual is the speculative value of the vehicle at lease end. If twelve different banks are asked for a lease quote on a 2003 Toyota Camry, I guarantee the figures will ALL be different. It's a crapshoot. The banks are competitive, so a higher residual means a lower monthly payment, everything else being equal. The residual is a percentage of the vehicle's ORIGINAL value figured from start to end of lease. Here's an example: Let's say a 2003 Camry goes for $22,000 not including tax, doc, or any rebates. Toyota Motor Credit sets the residual at $12,100 for a three year lease at 15,000 miles a year. What they're GUESSING is that three years down the line, a 2003 Camry with 45,000 miles should be worth $12,100. That's a 55% residual. So who pays the other 45%?? The person that leases the car. Now here's why it's the lessee's advantage. He doesn't HAVE to buy it at the end, although he has the option. If 2003 Camrys like his are worth $14,000 at lease end, it's a smart buy. On the other hand, let's say it's only worth $9,500. That's Toyota's problem, not his. That's the gamble the banks and manufacturers take when leasing a car. Manufacturers rarely if ever lose, because they make a profit BEFORE a car is ever sold or leased. They SELL the cars to the dealer, who then has to retail the car to the public, usually with no more than a 8- 15% margin left BEFORE folks start haggling on the price!! Most people don't understand that part.......JMJ

[mhd]

Originally posted by Kenrick _:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Good points JMJ and Gman.


I have to agree with Gman with the fact that I'd rather be financially free from any type of debt before and have money set aside for investments before I make another decision to purchase another car.

Peace speaking from experience, that is the best thing you can do!

i had a money pit lemon also but i had to suck it up and pay for *some* repairs (expecially those that were manditory to pass inspection even at a friendly gas station). i basically alternated paying down my debts and paying for repairs as needed to get me through.

at the end of 2001 i made the last payment on my debt and junked the piece of shit (no one else deserves that headache).

six months later after doing my homework and intensely reviewing all my options as it related to my personal situation, i was sitting in a brand new 2002 civic ex at 4.9% apr (PAY THOSE DEBTS OFF!!).

where i live i need a reliable car to get to school among other places and i did not trust another old car. i tried getting a newer used car but i did not have the cash and the apr's were terrible.

good luck to you groove </font>[/QUOTE]you could have donated the car to goodwill and received a tax benefit

[Raven Fox]

Originally posted by JMJ:
Keep in mind that in a closed-end lease you have the option to buy, although there's no penalty if you don't. The one thing most "non-leasers" don't understand is that a lease is kind of like gambling, except that YOU'RE the house, and if the bet isn't going you're way, you can walk away from the table.
All leases are figured initially on five basic factors - MSRP of the vehicle, how many miles you'll be driving it yearly, finance charges, residual value, and current incentives (rebates). Money down and /or trade equity figure in later to fine tune the monthly payment. Residual value is the most important factor. The residual is the speculative value of the vehicle at lease end. If twelve different banks are asked for a lease quote on a 2003 Toyota Camry, I guarantee the figures will ALL be different. It's a crapshoot. The banks are competitive, so a higher residual means a lower monthly payment, everything else being equal. The residual is a percentage of the vehicle's ORIGINAL value figured from start to end of lease. Here's an example: Let's say a 2003 Camry goes for $22,000 not including tax, doc, or any rebates. Toyota Motor Credit sets the residual at $12,100 for a three year lease at 15,000 miles a year. What they're GUESSING is that three years down the line, a 2003 Camry with 45,000 miles should be worth $12,100. That's a 55% residual. So who pays the other 45%?? The person that leases the car. Now here's why it's the lessee's advantage. He doesn't HAVE to buy it at the end, although he has the option. If 2003 Camrys like his are worth $14,000 at lease end, it's a smart buy. On the other hand, let's say it's only worth $9,500. That's Toyota's problem, not his. That's the gamble the banks and manufacturers take when leasing a car. Manufacturers rarely if ever lose, because they make a profit BEFORE a car is ever sold or leased. They SELL the cars to the dealer, who then has to retail the car to the public, usually with no more than a 8- 15% margin left BEFORE folks start haggling on the price!! Most people don't understand that part.......JMJ hail.gif TEACH JMJ!

"we got auto retail experts, lawyers, DJs, and politicians uppin here. (is 'uppin really a word graemlins/rofl.gif )"

[JMJ]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
I have another question in terms of financing. What's a good rate at which a "Used" car should be financed. Currently my rate is 11 percent. The financing company wanted damn near 15 percent and I wanted around 8 or nine. I damn near walked out of the office and the guy compromised by giving me 11 percent. I did the math at it was well within my budget.

Peace Keep in mind that what you want, and what you qualify for, can sometimes be a problem. Money down, credit history, type of car, year and mileage all make a difference when financing a vehicle as far as rate and term are concerned. Some lenders will allow dealer finance mamagers to "up" the interest percentage a few points over the buy rate stated by the lender. some finance managers will also get you approved by more than one lender and try to get you to sign with the lender that puts the most $$$ in THEIR pockets. That explains the 15 to 11% drop to keep your business. The BEST rate is the rate YOU qualify for, simply put.....JMJ

[GROOVE VICTIM]

JMJ, I read that if you fail to fulfill your obligations on a close-end lease, you will endure alot of penalties, as compared to an opened-end lease where you have the option to pull out of the lease and purchase a different car under the same terms. Is this true?

[mhd]

Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Raven Fox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
Groove,

If the car is in good shape keep it until you feel that it is no longer reliable and repairs (beyond normal wear and tear) are to high. You own it, no payments no interest. Pay off your other debts before you consider going into another car loan or a lease.

I just got rid of my 1988 Honda Civic that I had for 15 years. I sold it for $1000.00. I felt it was no longer reliable for long trips. I purchased a 2 year old Honda Accord LX for $11,500 cash.

I have never considered a lease. What I heard is that after the lease period you have nothin and then you can either buy the car from them for more than its worth or go into another lease. I also heard that they have high milage penalties and you better turn that car back to them in great shape or there are more penalties. This is just what I heard. Can someone tell me their honest experiences with leasing. good advice - keep the car until it goes beyond normal wear and tear costs - I hate paying mechanics for major repairs.

Leasing is cool if you want to drive a new car every year or few years - that way you can trade it in for something else during the lease intervals. Also consider how much you drive because those mileage penalties can get crazy.
with the way cars depreciate so fast (as soon as u drive them off the lot) at least you know the dealer will take care of the car as well / there are some warranty plans that cover any problems you might have while you drive that leased car / which is a brand new or fairly new vehicle. I don't recommend leasing to anybody because they DO get you in the end by trying to sell you the car for JUST about what the blue book says (even after you already paid all that money (which doesn't go into equity - if so, not very much it). </font>[/QUOTE]Keep in mind that in a closed-end lease you have the option to buy, although there's no penalty if you don't. The one thing most "non-leasers" don't understand is that a lease is kind of like gambling, except that YOU'RE the house, and if the bet isn't going you're way, you can walk away from the table.
All leases are figured initially on five basic factors - MSRP of the vehicle, how many miles you'll be driving it yearly, finance charges, residual value, and current incentives (rebates). Money down and /or trade equity figure in later to fine tune the monthly payment. Residual value is the most important factor. The residual is the speculative value of the vehicle at lease end. If twelve different banks are asked for a lease quote on a 2003 Toyota Camry, I guarantee the figures will ALL be different. It's a crapshoot. The banks are competitive, so a higher residual means a lower monthly payment, everything else being equal. The residual is a percentage of the vehicle's ORIGINAL value figured from start to end of lease. Here's an example: Let's say a 2003 Camry goes for $22,000 not including tax, doc, or any rebates. Toyota Motor Credit sets the residual at $12,100 for a three year lease at 15,000 miles a year. What they're GUESSING is that three years down the line, a 2003 Camry with 45,000 miles should be worth $12,100. That's a 55% residual. So who pays the other 45%?? The person that leases the car. Now here's why it's the lessee's advantage. He doesn't HAVE to buy it at the end, although he has the option. If 2003 Camrys like his are worth $14,000 at lease end, it's a smart buy. On the other hand, let's say it's only worth $9,500. That's Toyota's problem, not his. That's the gamble the banks and manufacturers take when leasing a car. Manufacturers rarely if ever lose, because they make a profit BEFORE a car is ever sold or leased. They SELL the cars to the dealer, who then has to retail the car to the public, usually with no more than a 8- 15% margin left BEFORE folks start haggling on the price!! Most people don't understand that part.......JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]the only way i would lease is for the tax write off, but i do that anyway with the luxury cars that i own, further, when i sell them i will make money.

basically, a lease is pay as you go and under the scenario you describe every 2-3 years you get the "opportunity" to drive a new car, now for some that is some psychic pleasure. but if you do that for say 5 "cycles" thats 10-15 years, 7 "cycles" is 14-21 years of driving new cars. its also having a car note for every one of those years. i'd rather pay a mortgage

[JMJ]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
I have another question in terms of financing. What's a good rate at which a "Used" car should be financed. Currently my rate is 11 percent. The financing company wanted damn near 15 percent and I wanted around 8 or nine. I damn near walked out of the office and the guy compromised by giving me 11 percent. I did the math at it was well within my budget.

Peace i wonder what he would have offered if you walked. actually, financing should be zero, i the best case scenario </font>[/QUOTE]Zero percent financing is going to be the death of the new car business, especially for The landing arms of manufacturers NOT being subsidized. They lose money to finance a car. Stupid, and as with everything else, you can always go down, but not up. Another 9/11 casualty, because that's when the zero percent garbage started....JMJ

[mhd]

doesn't zero percent financing make it cheaper for the consumer to purchase a car? why is that not a good thing?

[JMJ]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
JMJ, I read that if you fail to fulfill your obligations on a close-end lease, you will endure alot of penalties, as compared to an opened-end lease where you have the option to pull out of the lease and purchase a different car under the same terms. Is this true? An open-ended lease is a lease with a baloon payment at the end. That baloon payment is the balance on the vehicle, which you would be responsible for. If you choose not to buy, you pay the penalty, which is usually a good chunk of change. GM Smart Buys are a good example of open-ended leases. Avoid these at all cost. Closed end is the way to go. Buying is an option with no penalty if you walk away.....JMJ

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by mhd:
doesn't zero percent financing make it cheaper for the consumer to purchase a car? why is that not a good thing? Good question.

Who is benefitting from the interest payed?

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
JMJ, I read that if you fail to fulfill your obligations on a close-end lease, you will endure alot of penalties, as compared to an opened-end lease where you have the option to pull out of the lease and purchase a different car under the same terms. Is this true? An open-ended lease is a lease with a baloon payment at the end. That baloon payment is the balance on the vehicle, which you would be responsible for. If you choose not to buy, you pay the penalty, which is usually a good chunk of change. GM Smart Buys are a good example of open-ended leases. Avoid these at all cost. Closed end is the way to go. Buying is an option with no penalty if you walk away.....JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]OK, I had it backwards, thanks for clearing this up.

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Another thing I would like to add. One of the Mitsubishi car dealerships in my area advertises these "seeing is believing" deals on television.

A 2003 Montero sport for 259 a month "THIS IS NOT A LEASE". I hear so many people roll up to that dealership leaving with nothing because they failed to do their homework. I was hangin with a friend of mine and he was talking about going up to that dealership. Coincidently one of their commercials showed up on the TV and I told him to walk up to the TV, and look at the fine print.

It stated: Payments of 259 a month for 60 months, plus a baloon payment of some outrageous figure. He was rather quiet after seeing the print.

Do you guys run into alot of these Dealerships in your towns?


Peace

[JMJ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
[QB] If I make a trip up to Chicago, will I see JMJ in any car dealer commercials?


graemlins/rofl.gif


Another question, should I stay with domestic cars or go import?

Absolutely not. I manage and specialize in secondary (credit challenged) finance for a smaller Dodge dealer in NW Indiana. I don't do buffoonish commercials.
As for domestic or import, you cannot go wrong with a Toyota or Honda. Volkswagon or Nissan aren't bad either, but stay away from Mazda, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Kia, Daewoo, Suzuki, etc. Don't listen to that "buy American" stuff either. Most Hondas and Toyotas are built in the U.S. You'd be surprised to see the percentage of parts that go into Amercan cars that are foreign these days. Its your money. Spend it wisely......JMJ

[Raven Fox]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Another thing I would like to add. One of the Mitsubishi car dealerships in my area advertises these "seeing is believing" deals on television.

A 2003 Montero sport for 259 a month "THIS IS NOT A LEASE". I hear so many people roll up to that dealership leaving with nothing because they failed to do their homework. I was hangin with a friend of mine and he was talking about going up to that dealership. Coincidently one of their commercials showed up on the TV and I told him to walk up to the TV, and look at the fine print.

It stated: Payments of 259 a month for 60 months, plus a baloon payment of some outrageous figure. He was rather quiet after seeing the print.

Do you guys run into alot of these Dealerships in your towns?


Peace All of them want and need to sell cars (period)
and there seems to be alot of FINE print.

Man... the Malouf Mitsubishi dealer Ad in Jersey was talking some shit about giving Saddam Hussein a car if he left Iraq. Then he retracted the offer ... but in the end... I bet he sold alot of Mitsu's

JMJ - how do they give you 2 cars to drive when you pay for one.... anybody buy into this type of deal here?

[ April 11, 2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Raven Fox ]

[JMJ]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
doesn't zero percent financing make it cheaper for the consumer to purchase a car? why is that not a good thing? Good question.

Who is benefitting from the interest payed? </font>[/QUOTE]Should a bank NOT make money for lending you money????.....JMJ

[julian_kelly]

jmj, what do you think is the best lending source to work with to get a car loan?

Are any lending sources superior or are most of the major banks, lending institutions, etc. practices that same?

Any sources that a person should avoid??


peace
julian kelly

[ April 11, 2003, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: julian_kelly ]

[JMJ]

Originally posted by mhd:
doesn't zero percent financing make it cheaper for the consumer to purchase a car? why is that not a good thing? It was a good thing for a short time, except for the fact that it's depleted the market of QUALIFIED new car buyers by over-saturating the market way too soon, and it fractured the used car market, which will end up biting all the zero-down buyers in the ass when they look to trade those cars in a few years. Lenders had to buy-down their own buy rate in order to make zero-percent possible. What happens when they have to raise the rates??? Nobody will buy new cars unless the manufacturers dig deep and start offering $7-10000 rebates. It created a yo-yo effect and it's really not good for anybody in the long term.....JMJ

[Kenrick _]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kenrick _:


good luck to you groove you could have donated the car to goodwill and received a tax benefit [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]you are right!! at the time i thought they wouldn't take it because the car was useless. but i later got schooled that they could have used it for parts (DUH). now i wish i donated...

[JMJ]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Another thing I would like to add. One of the Mitsubishi car dealerships in my area advertises these "seeing is believing" deals on television.

A 2003 Montero sport for 259 a month "THIS IS NOT A LEASE". I hear so many people roll up to that dealership leaving with nothing because they failed to do their homework. I was hangin with a friend of mine and he was talking about going up to that dealership. Coincidently one of their commercials showed up on the TV and I told him to walk up to the TV, and look at the fine print.

It stated: Payments of 259 a month for 60 months, plus a baloon payment of some outrageous figure. He was rather quiet after seeing the print.

Do you guys run into alot of these Dealerships in your towns?


Peace Yes. Chicagoland is particularly ugly with some of the bullshit ads that nobody qualifies for.....JMJ

[JMJ]

Originally posted by Raven Fox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Another thing I would like to add. One of the Mitsubishi car dealerships in my area advertises these "seeing is believing" deals on television.

A 2003 Montero sport for 259 a month "THIS IS NOT A LEASE". I hear so many people roll up to that dealership leaving with nothing because they failed to do their homework. I was hangin with a friend of mine and he was talking about going up to that dealership. Coincidently one of their commercials showed up on the TV and I told him to walk up to the TV, and look at the fine print.

It stated: Payments of 259 a month for 60 months, plus a baloon payment of some outrageous figure. He was rather quiet after seeing the print.

Do you guys run into alot of these Dealerships in your towns?


Peace All of them want and need to sell cars (period)
and there seems to be alot of FINE print.

Man... the Malouf Mitsubishi dealer Ad in Jersey was talking some shit about giving Saddam Hussein a car if he left Iraq. Then he retracted the offer ... but in the end... I bet he sold alot of Mitsu's

JMJ - how do they give you 2 cars to drive when you pay for one.... anybody buy into this type of deal here? </font>[/QUOTE]I haven't heard that one. I only need one car, though. I make my bitches walk. Just kidding....JMJ

[Kenrick _]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Another thing I would like to add. One of the Mitsubishi car dealerships in my area advertises these "seeing is believing" deals on television.

A 2003 Montero sport for 259 a month "THIS IS NOT A LEASE". I hear so many people roll up to that dealership leaving with nothing because they failed to do their homework. I was hangin with a friend of mine and he was talking about going up to that dealership. Coincidently one of their commercials showed up on the TV and I told him to walk up to the TV, and look at the fine print.

It stated: Payments of 259 a month for 60 months, plus a baloon payment of some outrageous figure. He was rather quiet after seeing the print.

Do you guys run into alot of these Dealerships in your towns?


Peace ...and many times they have like 1 or 2 cars for that deal and its never the one shown in the add...

[Raven Fox]

Originally posted by JMJ:
.... I make my bitches walk. Just kidding....JMJ oh dayum... graemlins/rofl.gif

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by mhd:
... basically, a lease is pay as you go and under the scenario you describe every 2-3 years you get the "opportunity" to drive a new car, now for some that is some psychic pleasure. but if you do that for say 5 "cycles" thats 10-15 years, 7 "cycles" is 14-21 years of driving new cars. its also having a car note for every one of those years. i'd rather pay a mortgage Definitely agree on that. To continously buy\lease a car every 3 years is crazy.

1. Buy a used car a couple of years old
2. Keep it well maintained
3. Hold on to it as long as possible. Remember news cars need maintenance too and you have the monthly payment.

[Kenrick _]

Originally posted by julian_kelly:
jmj, what do you think is the best lending source to work with to get a car loan?

Are any lending sources superior or are most of the major banks, lending institutions, etc. practices that same?

Any sources that a person should avoid??


peace
julian kelly my credit union was pretty generous (most usually are) since i save with them via payroll deduction.

even though i ended up with a better apr (4.9%)from honda finance i was able to use my credit union's loan as a bargaining chip. keep in mind i have a CHARGE OFF on my credit report!
(young and stooooooooooopid)

me

[JMJ]

Originally posted by julian_kelly:
jmj, what do you think is the best lending source to work with to get a car loan?

Are any lending sources superior or are most of the major banks, lending institutions, etc. practices that same?

Any sources that a person should avoid??


peace
julian kelly It's always best to give the manufacturer's lendding arm a shot when purchasing a new car, because they typically have the best rates if you qualify. All dealers use different primary sources (banks), but Chase, National City, FirstStar, Bank One, and Wells Fargo are among the best. Most dealers also use local banks and credit unions as primary lenders, which are just as good if not better because of their convenience. Let the banks compete with each other to earn your business.
As for secondary (credit challenged) sources, check with the state that you live in to see what the cap (maximum) is for car loan rates. I get alot of Illinois customers accross the border here in Indiana because there is no state cap in Illinois. The state cap in Indiana is 21%, which isn't bad considering some Illinois contracts I've seen at over 40%!!!! That's ridiculous. Those people are buying two cars and driving one.....JMJ

[Raven Fox]

Originally posted by JMJ:
...I've seen at over 40%!!!! That's ridiculous. Those people are buying two cars and driving one.....JMJ 40%.... dayum :eek:

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Gman, for the price you purchased for that Accord LX, that's a damn steal!!


graemlins/thumbsup.gif Its a 5 speed stick with 55,000 miles on it but still a steal. It was serviced at the dealership that I took my other Honda too. It was also a certified vehicle. I bought it on the last business day of 2002 so they were more than happy to deal. I was also looking at Toyota Camry's and Nissan Altima's. I ruled out the Toyota Camry's (2000-2001) because I had been reading on the internet about an engine sludge problem. The Nissan Altima 2000-2001 is a great car but the ride is terrible.

[ April 11, 2003, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Gman ]

[JMJ]

Originally posted by Kenrick _:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Another thing I would like to add. One of the Mitsubishi car dealerships in my area advertises these "seeing is believing" deals on television.

A 2003 Montero sport for 259 a month "THIS IS NOT A LEASE". I hear so many people roll up to that dealership leaving with nothing because they failed to do their homework. I was hangin with a friend of mine and he was talking about going up to that dealership. Coincidently one of their commercials showed up on the TV and I told him to walk up to the TV, and look at the fine print.

It stated: Payments of 259 a month for 60 months, plus a baloon payment of some outrageous figure. He was rather quiet after seeing the print.

Do you guys run into alot of these Dealerships in your towns?


Peace ...and many times they have like 1 or 2 cars for that deal and its never the one shown in the add... </font>[/QUOTE]Always look for a stock number in the ad. Bait and switch is just plain wrong. If they don't have the one in the ad, and that's the car you really want, ask them to factory order or trade with another dealer to get it for you at that price. Unless it's a demo or last years model, they should try to accomodate you. If they won't do it, walk.....I've seen some dealers configure cars that deleted STANDARD equipment just to come up with a price leader. These cars couldn't even be built the way they were described....JMJ

[julian_kelly]

How would you define a 'credit challenged' person?

What are the 'red flags' from a lenders perspective?

What type of negative entries and how many would a person have to have on a credit report to be deemed 'credit challenged' ?

Do automobile folk use the mysterious fico scores too or do they only utilize work history, income, and credit report?

thanks for all your input bro
good stuff



Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by julian_kelly:
jmj, what do you think is the best lending source to work with to get a car loan?

Are any lending sources superior or are most of the major banks, lending institutions, etc. practices that same?

Any sources that a person should avoid??


peace
julian kelly

.....As for secondary (credit challenged) sources, check with the state that you live in to see what the cap (maximum) is for car loan rates.... </font>[/QUOTE]

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Damn JMJ, I hope I don't see a bill in the mail from you. Anyone here printing this stuff out?

[JMJ]

Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Gman, for the price you purchased for that Accord LX, that's a damn steal!!


graemlins/thumbsup.gif Its a 5 speed stick with 55,000 miles on it but still a steal. It was serviced at the dealership that I took my other Honda too. It was also a certified vehicle. I bought it on the last business day of 2002 so they were more than happy to deal. I was also looking at Toyota Camry's and Nissan Altima's. I ruled out the Toyota Camry's (2000-2001) because I had been reading on the internet about an engine sludge problem. The Nissan Altima 2000-2001 is a great car but the ride is terrible. </font>[/QUOTE]The re-designed 2002-2003 Altima's ride every bit as good as the Camry now. 180 HP 4 cylinder!! No need for a 6 in one of those. They look good too, but the interiors are a bit cheap-looking.....JMJ

[Raven Fox]

Original Question:

What can one do to increase the value of a car?

What about all that Euro modification, pro car audio/video, and speed stuff some guys do with cars.

Does that help with getting more money for it?

Probably not. You might not get back what you put into it - and these guys spend their whole checks on that sh*t - before they eat.

Kinda like DJs with Records graemlins/grinyes.gif

[Oak Pk, IL's Best Bedroom DJ, serge]

Increase the value of a car? Hmmm...

Get it insured and drive it a year or so until you get tired of it.

Then, go on an all-night drinking binge, crash, and get a new one. graemlins/banghead.gif graemlins/stupid.gif graemlins/all_coholic.gif

[Leslie]

Julian, check out Bankrate.com and some of your answers might get answered there. Also, as You and I have talked about in the past, check out some of the internet banks. I used one to buy out my lease when I decided I was going to keep the car and then refinanced the loan a year later; the rate went from 7.7% to 5.2%. Bankrate.com has a listing of sources to check out.

[fred da warrior]

Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Gman, for the price you purchased for that Accord LX, that's a damn steal!!


graemlins/thumbsup.gif Its a 5 speed stick with 55,000 miles on it but still a steal. It was serviced at the dealership that I took my other Honda too. It was also a certified vehicle. I bought it on the last business day of 2002 so they were more than happy to deal. I was also looking at Toyota Camry's and Nissan Altima's. I ruled out the Toyota Camry's (2000-2001) because I had been reading on the internet about an engine sludge problem. The Nissan Altima 2000-2001 is a great car but the ride is terrible. </font>[/QUOTE]The re-designed 2002-2003 Altima's ride every bit as good as the Camry now. 180 HP 4 cylinder!! No need for a 6 in one of those. They look good too, but the interiors are a bit cheap-looking.....JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]I just recently purchased a 2002 Altima and it seems to ride well. I thought it was a bit light in the bad weather, but after having it for a few months it has served my wife and i well. I would heed JMJ's advice about the Kia cause the trade in value for that is shite. If someone wants to sell you a Kia, walk in the other direction quickly.

[fred da warrior]

This thread is EXTREMELY valuable. I will defintely use this knowledge the next time I purchase a car.

[Raven Fox]

Originally posted by fred:
I would heed JMJ's advice about the Kia cause the trade in value for that is shite. If someone wants to sell you a Kia, walk in the other direction quickly. KIA = killed in action :eek:

[fred da warrior]

Originally posted by Raven Fox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fred:
I would heed JMJ's advice about the Kia cause the trade in value for that is shite. If someone wants to sell you a Kia, walk in the other direction quickly. KIA = killed in action :eek: </font>[/QUOTE]Right! I had a 4x2 Sportage graemlins/nono.gif In the winter, you might has well been on the highway in a pair of skis

[JMJ]

Originally posted by julian_kelly:
How would you define a 'credit challenged' person?

What are the 'red flags' from a lenders perspective?

What type of negative entries and how many would a person have to have on a credit report to be deemed 'credit challenged' ?

Do automobile folk use the mysterious fico scores too or do they only utilize work history, income, and credit report?

thanks for all your input bro
good stuff


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by julian_kelly:
jmj, what do you think is the best lending source to work with to get a car loan?

Are any lending sources superior or are most of the major banks, lending institutions, etc. practices that same?

Any sources that a person should avoid??


peace
julian kelly

.....As for secondary (credit challenged) sources, check with the state that you live in to see what the cap (maximum) is for car loan rates.... </font>[/QUOTE]</font>[/QUOTE]Repos, forclosures, charge-offs, records of late payments, maxed-out credit cards, Chapter 7 or 13 bancruptcies within the last 5 years, unpaid civil judgements, federal or state tax liens, unpaid child support are all red flags. Limited time on the job, limited time at current residence, total debt to income ratio all play a large part in whether a lender will consider you for a loan. Fico, beacon, or emperica score does have some bearing on what credit tier you qualify at, but most lenders look at more than just score, because score alone doesn't tell the story. Money down is VERY important and can mean the difference between approval or denial, and can also move you into a higher credit tier, which means a lower rate, because money down shows COMMITMENT TO BUY, as well as ability to pay. Zero down means zero invested, which means zero commitment, especially for those with less than perfect credit. Definitely a red flag. Credit counseling = Red flag. Anybody in credit counseling has been fooled into a Chapter 13 minus the title. Most lenders won't consider anybody currently in credit counseling. If you file a Chapter 7 or 13 and it's dismissed, forget about financing a car. Dismissed means you didn't pay the lawyer in most cases. Chapter 13 - Wait until you're done paying to try financing a car despite what your trustee says. He didn't have the heart to say no in most cases. Last but not least...If you've gone through a Chapter 7 or 13 and it's een discharged, it is possible to finance a car. You will pay a higher rate, but it's a chance to rebuild your credit. A good down payment defnitely helps. Direct deposit from your checking is a good idea for paying the monthly payment if you can swing it. Repo after bancruptcy = No more car loans for you. Hope this helps.....JMJ

[JMJ]

Originally posted by Raven Fox:
Original Question:

What can one do to increase the value of a car?

What about all that Euro modification, pro car audio/video, and speed stuff some guys do with cars.

Does that help with getting more money for it?

Probably not. You might not get back what you put into it - and these guys spend their whole checks on that sh*t - before they eat.

Kinda like DJs with Records graemlins/grinyes.gif Waste of money unles you know someone willing to but the car with all that stuff on it. Take all that stuff off before trading it in if you can. Original factory equipment is actually worth more.....JMJ

[Kenrick _]

Originally posted by JMJ:
[QUOTE]Always look for a stock number in the ad. Bait and switch is just plain wrong. If they don't have the one in the ad, and that's the car you really want, ask them to factory order or trade with another dealer to get it for you at that price. Unless it's a demo or last years model, they should try to accomodate you. If they won't do it, walk.....I've seen some dealers configure cars that deleted STANDARD equipment just to come up with a price leader. These cars couldn't even be built the way they were described....JMJ true!! i remember looking at a brand new saturn that on the outside looked awesome. it had a spoiler, attractive rims, sunroof, spoilers and all the goods for ONLY $11,500 brand new!

what it did not have on the inside was abs, ac, a good engine, a radio and a bunch of other amenities and luxuries.

after we added all that in the car went from $11,500 to over $20,000.

i got my honda civic ex with all that except the spoiler and fogs for $17,000 and a better apr.

me

[GROOVE VICTIM]

This has to be the most important point made in this thread at this point in time.

I considered using my debt with the use of Credit Counseling but when I began to read the horror stories of many people who have less debt than I have, it really made me think about my personal goals and priorities.


Good one JMJ!!

[JMJ]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
This has to be the most important point made in this thread at this point in time.

I considered using my debt with the use of Credit Counseling but when I began to read the horror stories of many people who have less debt than I have, it really made me think about my personal goals and priorities.


Good one JMJ!! Credit counseling - Don't do it. Because you're "consolidating" your debt, lenders will not let you assume any more debt until you're thru with credit counseling, which is in most cases 3-5 years, depending on the amount of debt. Again, it's a Chapter 13 with a prettier name. Don't fall for it.....JMJ

[ April 11, 2003, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: JMJ ]

[Kenrick _]

i went to credit counseling. however, the lady that i saw, bless her, did not try to get me to use them to pay off my debts.

what i gained was the knowledge about what collectors can and cannot do. armed with that knowledge i was able to take an offensive attitude with my creditor at he time.

credit counselors - use them for info - but not to take care of YOUR biz

me

[ April 11, 2003, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Kenrick _ ]

[Raven Fox]

CREDIT can make you or BREAK you!

buhleeedat!


bravo JMJ for all this inside knowledge.
I have to admit - I've been a sucker for car dealers a few times in my life.

Never again.

Also - seriously thinking about the PRIUS.
Thanks to you!

[ April 11, 2003, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Raven Fox ]

[GROOVE VICTIM]

YOU HEAR THAT EVERYBODY!!!!! DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!

graemlins/thumbsup.gif


I wonder how many times a day these Credit Counseling Service commercials appear on Television and radio. I'll place these in the same boat as the Cash Advance and Title Pawn commercials.

Peace

[JMJ]

Originally posted by Raven Fox:
CREDIT can make you or BREAK you!

buhleeedat!


bravo JMJ for all this inside knowledge.
I have to admit - I've been a sucker for car dealers a few times in my life.

Never again.

Also - seriously thinking about the PRIUS.
Thanks to you! Go to your local Toyota dealer and drive one. The car sells itself.....JMJ

[SPG]

Originally posted by Gman:


I have never considered a lease. What I heard is that after the lease period you have nothin and then you can either buy the car from them for more than its worth or go into another lease. I also heard that they have high milage penalties and you better turn that car back to them in great shape or there are more penalties. This is just what I heard. Can someone tell me their honest experiences with leasing. Hi G!

I actually had a very pleasant leasing experience. I like having a new care every few years. I don’t like worrying about fixing this or that. Call it a fear from when I was just starting out on my own. I had this car which sometimes worked or didn’t (air, radio, brakes, transmission, tires, car alarm, you name it). I actually had nightmares about this car and swore one day, I would never again worry about this with any other car. But it takes the right kind of person to benefit from leasing.

I see leasing as paying for what I use out of a car. This method does not work if you plan on keeping it a long time.

I also don’t use that many miles so the mileage thing was never a problem for me. I was always under due to short work commute, no long hauls across the country and limited highway use.

Another plus for me was the dealer paid for all oil changes /other routine maintenance for the entire lease (this is not always the case folks).

Also, the turn in process was painless. Dealership recognizes the normal wear & tear on the car (small rock chips on front of car & small window chips). It probably helped that I was pretty meticulous with the car (i.e., no door dings, scratches, etc..) and AZ’s climate (dry & less chances of rust happening out here)

And finally, you’ve got to put money aside to fund the next car. I actually signed up with my company’s credit union (to benefit from the low interest rates or use as a bargaining tool with the dealers) and have deductions taken out of my paycheck 2 or 3 times a month.

Bottom line is, if you’re hard on a car, like to take major road trips and aren’t good about saving up for the next car or you simply don’t want to have ongoing car payments, then leasing isn’t for you.

Hope this helps!

SPG

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[ April 11, 2003, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: SPG ]