Controversial Pic

[Koffy Brown]

This is the picture from the other thread

[ June 12, 2003, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]

[AD]

Yeah...that red X is stirring up a lot of controversy. Better get rid of it. graemlins/rofl.gif

[JMJ]

X marks the spot. Scary stuff....JMJ ;)

[Jamie 3:26]

Here ya go..... http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/p6da00bec5a50db72ed3910223d86363c/fbf4c9a4.jpg

[larry rauson]

After she has the baby, she needs to stand in line for a good thorough ASS KICKING...how completely stoopid...

Larry "call dyfs now" Rauson

[SHEIK YERBOUTI]

:eek: What can you really say? graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[Wild i]

Is this the girl we've been discussing?

You know what, even if my daughter was not pregnant, I would not allow her 17 or 18 year-old ass to go to the prom with her belly sticking out. Aside from what folks think about her being preggers, that dress is inappropriate at that age...PERIOD!

[vinny from the Burgh]

that is horrible

[SHEIK YERBOUTI]

Originally posted by Wild i:
Is this the girl we've been discussing?

You know what, even if my daughter was not pregnant, I would not allow her 17 or 18 year-old ass to go to the prom with her belly sticking out. Aside from what folks think about her being preggers, that dress is inappropriate at that age...PERIOD! YES!

[vinny from the Burgh]

she needs a relaxer for that hair too

[larry rauson]

Is that a BONG on the table in the corner?

Larry "El KaBong" Rauson

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
Is that a BONG on the table in the corner?

Larry "El KaBong" Rauson Actually it is very sad, and disturbing...I want to break the neck of the seamstress...and the permenantly swole the eyes of the momma...

sick!!

What's a bong?

[TerranceFoster]

graemlins/puke.gif

[Gojay]

icon_rofl.gif

They must still be laughing in that H.S.

OMG, Talk about Tackeeeeee!

peace,
gojay

[SHEIK YERBOUTI]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
Is that a BONG on the table in the corner?

Larry "El KaBong" Rauson Actually it is very sad, and disturbing...I want to break the neck of the seamstress...and the permenantly swole the eyes of the momma...

sick!!

What's a bong? </font>[/QUOTE]This should put a completely different spin on the whole big ol' conversation, shouldn't it?

As per the bong, ask Albert D. for the history of "smoking" and it's various instruments. ;)

Hookahs can be fun too.

[ June 12, 2003, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: toomuchtv ]

[larry rauson]

A bong is a device used to smoke the kind bud, usually filled with water, wine, preferably red wine, or ice, it filters the smoke and makes taking massive hits much easier, use only when you really want to get f%^cked up.

Larry

[larry rauson]

toomuchtv, smoked out of a Turkish hooka one time in college, almost twenty years ago now...I'm still high, but I still wouldn't wear a dress like that, even if I wasn't pregnant...

Larry

[ June 12, 2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: larry rauson ]

[SHEIK YERBOUTI]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
A bong is a device used to smoke the kind bud, usually filled with water, wine, preferably red wine, or ice, it filters the smoke and makes taking massive hits much easier, use only when you really want to get f%^cked up.

Larry RED WINE? That's wild. I'll have to pass that along to my buddies.

[D J 1 3 8]

Am I the only person who thinks she looks like Joi Lee, Spike Lee's sister?

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
toomuchtv, smoked out of a Turkish hooka one time in college, almost twenty years ago now...I'm still high, but I still wouldn't wear a dress like that, even if I wasn't pregnant...

Larry Thank Gawd for small miracles... graemlins/rofl.gif can you check your pm's brotha man...

[SHEIK YERBOUTI]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
toomuchtv, smoked out of a Turkish hooka one time in college, almost twenty years ago now...I'm still high, but I still wouldn't wear a dress like that, even if I wasn't pregnant...

Larry Some buddies of mine had a hookah shaped like Kenny from South Park. That's some REAL "Ain't no fun if the homies cain't get none" type stuff right there!

[JR JAM]

Well that dress definitely a no-no graemlins/nono.gif but like I said in the previous thread my wife went when she was pregnant.

[SHEIK YERBOUTI]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
Am I the only person who thinks she looks like Joi Lee, Spike Lee's sister? I never would have thought of that!!! :D

[MYOR]

That dress is just plain ugly whether she was pregnant or not.. graemlins/puke.gif

[Wild i]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
Is that a BONG on the table in the corner?

Larry "El KaBong" Rauson There's no bong in the picture. There's a remote, a bottle (held by the woman on the left) and a sliver of the other table, but no bong (at least as far as I can see).

[Leslie]

That picture has rendered me speechless (no small feat I might add..).

[Martin Red]

No big deal really but someone should have said

"IT LOOKS LIKE A BIG BALD ALIEN HEAD IS POPPING OUT YA GUTS" graemlins/rofl.gif


She needs a stylist.

[Koffy Brown]

and she doesn't look happy at all...

Lord help us!!

[mhd]

As a fashion statement it is certainly avant garde

[Leslie]

Originally posted by mhd:
As a fashion statement it is certainly avant garde icon_rofl.gif good one....

the stretch marks certainly lend a different dimmension...

[SHEIK YERBOUTI]

I'd still like to know WHO'S idea that dress was.

Of course, they ALL still need to be slapped.

The girl, her mother, whoever took the picture...

[liL Ray]

So when that famous white actress(I forgot her name) posed with her pregnant stomach fully exposed on the cover of a famous magazine, the world thought she was beautiful and it was a great thing to do.....but this is ugly? I don't get it with some of y'all elitist(or could it be prejudice) attitudes.

I hope that everyone here who is pointing fingers and criticising have perfect lives and have daughters and sons who are picture perfect, because if they are not, I don't see how some here could deal.

So because she is pregnant she should be shun from society, miss out on the rest of life memory. Maybe the dress might not be to your taste, but she likes it! The pregnancy happened, it's done, now deal with it in a civil manner....this is what will determine if you are bring a new life in the world or destroying two.

And why shouldn't she go to the prom, do you think by her going, it is going to influence the other girls to get pregnant, all of a sudden....pleaaaasssse!

The attitude of some here is why young girls hide their pregnancy and leave their newborn in hideous places. Check yourself.

[mhd]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
So when that famous white actress(I forgot her name) posed with her pregnant stomach fully exposed on the cover of a famous magazine, the world thought she was beautiful and it was a great thing to do.....but this is ugly? I don't get it with some of y'all elitist(or could it be prejudice) attitudes.

I hope that everyone here who is pointing fingers and criticising have perfect lives and have daughters and sons who are picture perfect, because if they are not, I don't see how some here could deal.

So because she is pregnant she should be shun from society, miss out on the rest of life memory. Maybe the dress might not be to your taste, but she likes it! The pregnancy happened, it's done, now deal with it in a civil manner....this is what will determine if you are bring a new life in the world or destroying two.

And why shouldn't she go to the prom, do you think by her going, it is going to influence the other girls to get pregnant, all of a sudden....pleaaaasssse!

The attitude of some here is why young girls hide their pregnancy and leave their newborn in hideous places. Check yourself. demi moore posed pregnant on the cover of vanity fair

[David Le C]

Euhm, Ray, we're talking about the dress, I don't give a f*ck that she's pregnant, but that dress is just horrible...
Ow, and the actress was Demi Moore, and those were really nice pictures...

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Martin Red:
"IT LOOKS LIKE A BIG BALD ALIEN HEAD IS POPPING OUT YA GUTS" graemlins/rofl.gif
You don't remember that 80s miniseries "V". The scene where the girl has a baby (an alien is the babydaddy). "Aw, ain't he cute?" And then he sticks his "alien tounge" out!!! Everybody in the house watching started to scream!!!!

Anyway, who has the mindset to wear this???? I'm sure there are prom dresses that could be tailored to cover up. Peace.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
So when that famous white actress(I forgot her name) posed with her pregnant stomach fully exposed on the cover of a famous magazine, the world thought she was beautiful and it was a great thing to do.....but this is ugly? I don't get it with some of y'all elitist(or could it be prejudice) attitudes.

I hope that everyone here who is pointing fingers and criticising have perfect lives and have daughters and sons who are picture perfect, because if they are not, I don't see how some here could deal.

So because she is pregnant she should be shun from society, miss out on the rest of life memory. Maybe the dress might not be to your taste, but she likes it! The pregnancy happened, it's done, now deal with it in a civil manner....this is what will determine if you are bring a new life in the world or destroying two.

And why shouldn't she go to the prom, do you think by her going, it is going to influence the other girls to get pregnant, all of a sudden....pleaaaasssse!

The attitude of some here is why young girls hide their pregnancy and leave their newborn in hideous places. Check yourself. Demi Moore posed fully naked and pregnant on a cover of a magazine...

But to wear this to your prom come on...

Never said pregnancy is a ugly thing.. Just don't feel this is appropriate for a prom..

Besides the dress is U G L Y :(

[ June 12, 2003, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: MYOR ]

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by David Le C:
Euhm, Ray, we're talking about the dress, Are you sure about that? hmmmmmm.....

[Leslie]

Ray, I found when Demi Moore posed butt naked and pregnate was a bit much - I personally think the nude body of a pregnate woman should stay sacred between those involved in the making of the baby. If that makes me elitist, outta step, not-with it, fine sue me!

This is riduculous and you know damn well you would not let your daughter go out of your house representing you and your wife looking like that! I am quite sure it was possible for someone in her immediate or extended family who could design a dress for her that would have been more appropriate than that. That is pure, unadulterated bullshit and there is no way I will EVER condone someone under that age of 18 going to their senior prom looking like that - as I do not condone the email of the prom dresses that non-pregnant girls where wearing - out of control!! I am calling it like I see it and this is unacceptable!

[SHEIK YERBOUTI]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
So when that famous white actress(I forgot her name) posed with her pregnant stomach fully exposed on the cover of a famous magazine, the world thought she was beautiful and it was a great thing to do.....but this is ugly? I don't get it with some of y'all elitist(or could it be prejudice) attitudes.

I hope that everyone here who is pointing fingers and criticising have perfect lives and have daughters and sons who are picture perfect, because if they are not, I don't see how some here could deal.

So because she is pregnant she should be shun from society, miss out on the rest of life memory. Maybe the dress might not be to your taste, but she likes it! The pregnancy happened, it's done, now deal with it in a civil manner....this is what will determine if you are bring a new life in the world or destroying two.

And why shouldn't she go to the prom, do you think by her going, it is going to influence the other girls to get pregnant, all of a sudden....pleaaaasssse!

The attitude of some here is why young girls hide their pregnancy and leave their newborn in hideous places. Check yourself. Sorry Ray, but I did and STILL think that Demi Moore cover was some DUMB stuff to do. It was NOTHING more than a really messed up Hollywood attention getter.

Also, AT LEAST she was an adult. Not a preggers 17 year old.

She can be preggers, hell she can even go to the prom. But COME ON. In THAT dress? That's too much.

Of course, someone will find a way to top it sooner or later... graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[Bold Soul]

Maybe she has enough courage to ignore what others find appropriate.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by toomuchtv:
Of course, someone will find a way to top it sooner or later... graemlins/jpshakehead.gif One can only hope.

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by MYOR:
[QUOTE]

But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
So when that famous white actress(I forgot her name) posed with her pregnant stomach fully exposed on the cover of a famous magazine, the world thought she was beautiful and it was a great thing to do.....but this is ugly? I don't get it with some of y'all elitist(or could it be prejudice) attitudes.

I hope that everyone here who is pointing fingers and criticising have perfect lives and have daughters and sons who are picture perfect, because if they are not, I don't see how some here could deal.

So because she is pregnant she should be shun from society, miss out on the rest of life memory. Maybe the dress might not be to your taste, but she likes it! The pregnancy happened, it's done, now deal with it in a civil manner....this is what will determine if you are bring a new life in the world or destroying two.

And why shouldn't she go to the prom, do you think by her going, it is going to influence the other girls to get pregnant, all of a sudden....pleaaaasssse!

The attitude of some here is why young girls hide their pregnancy and leave their newborn in hideous places. Check yourself. Not only is the dress inappropriate but this is a TEENAGER...and no it ain't nothing cute about a pregnant teen...The dress is TASTELESS and TACKY to say the least...she look a hot damn mess...and dressing like this is probably what got her ass in the position she's in anyway...this would be unacceptable regardless of RACE...period...and I've seen beautiful pregnant BLACK women who have posed naked for pictures and they were tastefully done and beautiful...

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by vinny from the Burgh:
she needs a relaxer for that hair too And a light turns on...

[ June 12, 2003, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

[Ken1015]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Maybe she has enough courage to ignore what others find appropriate. Or maybe she's just a damn fool. graemlins/rofl.gif

[MYOR]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>Honestly Ray, Look at that dress and tell me that you feel its ok...

Or do you just want to go against anything anyone says???

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Soulful1015:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Maybe she has enough courage to ignore what others find appropriate. Or maybe she's just a damn fool. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Or maybe everyone is so bound to their notions of "right" and "appropriate" that they're alluded that their opinions acutally matter.

[David Le C]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by David Le C:
Euhm, Ray, we're talking about the dress, Are you sure about that? hmmmmmm..... </font>[/QUOTE]Ok, I was talking about the dress, don't know about the others...

And on the subject of pregnant teens, it sucks when it happens, but if it happens they need all the support they can get...

But that dress, sheeez.... ;)

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>you damn right she was making a statement...a very inappropriate one...what in the hell happened to traditions...just out the window...I agree wholeheartedly with you Leslie, todays youth have lost it...what happened to evening gowns and tuxedo's...will she be one of the ones who want to get creative with dressing at a job interview, board meeting, business luncheon, after five black tie affair...this is absolutely crazy...that dress and that child is disgraceful...and to even think this has anything to do with race is ludacris graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>Honestly Ray, Look at that dress and tell me that you feel its ok...

Or do you just want to go against anything anyone says??? </font>[/QUOTE]I saw the hair and the dress and immediately saw it as a statement of the consciousness of self (ala - NO RELAXER) and condition (allowing the womb to show - not attempting to hide - pride).

That is my honest take on it. I think silver is a bit much - another color would have been more to my individual taste - but I could see her at the Grammys or Oscars with that dress.

[Fletch]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>Sorry, but this ain't got nothin' to do judgment from the old folks chuch. This ain't got anything to do with the hip hop clubs, either. This is OUT THERE!!!!!

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>you damn right she was making a statement...a very inappropriate one...what in the hell happened to traditions...just out the window...I agree wholeheartedly with you Leslie, todays youth have lost it...what happened to evening gowns and tuxedo's...will she be one of the ones who want to get creative with dressing at a job interview, board meeting, business luncheon, after five black tie affair...this is absolutely crazy...that dress and that child is disgraceful...and to even think this has anything to do with race is ludacris graemlins/jpshakehead.gif </font>[/QUOTE]A lecture on prom traditions coming from a sista with dreads posing in kente straddling a phallic symbol. :rolleyes:

It's all love Love...but you landed on "Go to jail" with that one. graemlins/rofl.gif

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Honestly Ray, Look at that dress and tell me that you feel its ok...

Or do you just want to go against anything anyone says??? </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not just going against the norm for the hell of it! The dress may not be to my taste, but it's not my business either to judge her.

As far as the comment about "there is nothing attractive about a teenager being pregnant", here's something to think about, many in this forum have mom and grandmom who were pregnant at that age.....

I just have a real problem with the nasty stigmatization of teen pregnancy and the problems that it leads to.

Eh, maybe I'm not from this planet.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>Honestly Ray, Look at that dress and tell me that you feel its ok...

Or do you just want to go against anything anyone says??? </font>[/QUOTE]I saw the hair and the dress and immediately saw it as a statement of the consciousness of self (ala - NO RELAXER) and condition (allowing the womb to show - not attempting to hide - pride).

That is my honest take on it. I think silver is a bit much - another color would have been more to my individual taste - but I could see her at the Grammys or Oscars with that dress. </font>[/QUOTE]OMY GAWD....please say your joking...please please please....letting the womb show...Jeezel Pete...

Lord, it's a bunch of fashion victims on this board...to say the least graemlins/rofl.gif

[fred da warrior]

Originally posted by einnod23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Martin Red:
"IT LOOKS LIKE A BIG BALD ALIEN HEAD IS POPPING OUT YA GUTS" graemlins/rofl.gif
You don't remember that 80s miniseries "V". The scene where the girl has a baby (an alien is the babydaddy). "Aw, ain't he cute?" And then he sticks his "alien tounge" out!!! Everybody in the house watching started to scream!!!!

Anyway, who has the mindset to wear this???? I'm sure there are prom dresses that could be tailored to cover up. Peace. </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry to interrupt the thread, but there is talk of "V" coming back on the air. It's supposed to center around what happened after the aliens took over 20 years later.

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
I could see her at the Grammys or Oscars with that dress. If anyone comes to either one of those award shows with that on, I MAY NEVER BUY A RECORD OR WATCH A MOVIE AGAIN!!!!

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by einnod23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
I could see her at the Grammys or Oscars with that dress. If anyone comes to either one of those award shows with that on, I MAY NEVER BUY A RECORD OR WATCH A MOVIE AGAIN!!!! </font>[/QUOTE]Bullshit.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>you damn right she was making a statement...a very inappropriate one...what in the hell happened to traditions...just out the window...I agree wholeheartedly with you Leslie, todays youth have lost it...what happened to evening gowns and tuxedo's...will she be one of the ones who want to get creative with dressing at a job interview, board meeting, business luncheon, after five black tie affair...this is absolutely crazy...that dress and that child is disgraceful...and to even think this has anything to do with race is ludacris graemlins/jpshakehead.gif </font>[/QUOTE]A lecture on prom traditions coming from a sista with dreads posing in kente straddling a phallic symbol. :rolleyes:

It's all love Love...but you landed on "Go to jail" with that one. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]dreads, kente...straddling..what the **** does that have to do with going to the prom...you are simple...and I do not walk down the street with kente straddling a phallic symbol..the more you post, the more simplistic I realize you are...

o lord you have analyzed one too many times...get a grip...

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>you damn right she was making a statement...a very inappropriate one...what in the hell happened to traditions...just out the window...I agree wholeheartedly with you Leslie, todays youth have lost it...what happened to evening gowns and tuxedo's...will she be one of the ones who want to get creative with dressing at a job interview, board meeting, business luncheon, after five black tie affair...this is absolutely crazy...that dress and that child is disgraceful...and to even think this has anything to do with race is ludacris graemlins/jpshakehead.gif </font>[/QUOTE]A lecture on prom traditions coming from a sista with dreads posing in kente straddling a phallic symbol. :rolleyes:

It's all love Love...but you landed on "Go to jail" with that one. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL!!!

[fred da warrior]

hahaha @ the fashion police coming out with tear gas and rubber bullets n shit

[MYOR]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Honestly Ray, Look at that dress and tell me that you feel its ok...

Or do you just want to go against anything anyone says??? </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not just going against the norm for the hell of it! The dress may not be to my taste, but it's not my business either to judge her.

As far as the comment about "there is nothing attractive about a teenager being pregnant", here's something to think about, many in this forum have mom and grandmom who were pregnant at that age.....

I just have a real problem with the nasty stigmatization of teen pregnancy and the problems that it leads to.

Eh, maybe I'm not from this planet. </font>[/QUOTE]Whether you want to or not you will judge,,, you might keep it to yourself but we all do..

As far as the pregnant teen thing you might want to go to the other post.. ;)

This for most part is about the dress...

[mhd]

Originally posted by fred:
hahaha @ the fashion police coming out with tear gas and rubber bullets n shit kinda like the Scarlet Letter

[Leslie]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Honestly Ray, Look at that dress and tell me that you feel its ok...

Or do you just want to go against anything anyone says??? </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not just going against the norm for the hell of it! The dress may not be to my taste, but it's not my business either to judge her.

As far as the comment about "there is nothing attractive about a teenager being pregnant", here's something to think about, many in this forum have mom and grandmom who were pregnant at that age.....

I just have a real problem with the nasty stigmatization of teen pregnancy and the problems that it leads to.

Eh, maybe I'm not from this planet. </font>[/QUOTE]Ray I can't get down with you here - we agree to disagree - but damnit EVERYBODY judges and I really do not buy that "it's not my place" argument. God gave me the right to call a fool a fool as he did you - and there was a reason for it.

[SHEIK YERBOUTI]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Honestly Ray, Look at that dress and tell me that you feel its ok...

Or do you just want to go against anything anyone says??? </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not just going against the norm for the hell of it! The dress may not be to my taste, but it's not my business either to judge her.

As far as the comment about "there is nothing attractive about a teenager being pregnant", here's something to think about, many in this forum have mom and grandmom who were pregnant at that age.....

I just have a real problem with the nasty stigmatization of teen pregnancy and the problems that it leads to.

Eh, maybe I'm not from this planet. </font>[/QUOTE]Nah bruh. Nuff respect. You feel how you feel, and I feel how I feel. Nothing wrong with that.

[Koffy Brown]

[ June 12, 2003, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]

[MYOR]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>you damn right she was making a statement...a very inappropriate one...what in the hell happened to traditions...just out the window...I agree wholeheartedly with you Leslie, todays youth have lost it...what happened to evening gowns and tuxedo's...will she be one of the ones who want to get creative with dressing at a job interview, board meeting, business luncheon, after five black tie affair...this is absolutely crazy...that dress and that child is disgraceful...and to even think this has anything to do with race is ludacris graemlins/jpshakehead.gif </font>[/QUOTE]A lecture on prom traditions coming from a sista with dreads posing in kente straddling a phallic symbol. :rolleyes:

It's all love Love...but you landed on "Go to jail" with that one. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL!!! </font>[/QUOTE]You men are comparing apples to oranges... doesn't work!!!!

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>you damn right she was making a statement...a very inappropriate one...what in the hell happened to traditions...just out the window...I agree wholeheartedly with you Leslie, todays youth have lost it...what happened to evening gowns and tuxedo's...will she be one of the ones who want to get creative with dressing at a job interview, board meeting, business luncheon, after five black tie affair...this is absolutely crazy...that dress and that child is disgraceful...and to even think this has anything to do with race is ludacris graemlins/jpshakehead.gif </font>[/QUOTE]A lecture on prom traditions coming from a sista with dreads posing in kente straddling a phallic symbol. :rolleyes:

It's all love Love...but you landed on "Go to jail" with that one. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]dreads, kente...straddling..what the **** does that have to do with going to the prom...you are simple...and I do not walk down the street with kente straddling a phallic symbol..the more you post, the more simplistic I realize you are...

o lord you have analyzed one too many times...get a grip... </font>[/QUOTE]See Ashaki - If I start making judgements about appropriateness, they won't be selective. For them to be honest and equitable, they would have to be based on a STANDARD. And I don't see much difference in either image. Actually, I think they're both wonderful.

And because of that, I would think that you, obviously being the stand out in appearance in your suroundings (as the picture long ago suggests - not totally certain) would understand this.

I could be wrong, though.

[Martin Red]

http://www.supersonicjane.com/images/pesweater.jpg

Call the cops..

http://www.supersonicjane.com/images/pasweater.jpg

It's light airey and it says I am in comfort with my shape, as well as saying I am a dirty slut give it to me give to me.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>you damn right she was making a statement...a very inappropriate one...what in the hell happened to traditions...just out the window...I agree wholeheartedly with you Leslie, todays youth have lost it...what happened to evening gowns and tuxedo's...will she be one of the ones who want to get creative with dressing at a job interview, board meeting, business luncheon, after five black tie affair...this is absolutely crazy...that dress and that child is disgraceful...and to even think this has anything to do with race is ludacris graemlins/jpshakehead.gif </font>[/QUOTE]A lecture on prom traditions coming from a sista with dreads posing in kente straddling a phallic symbol. :rolleyes:

It's all love Love...but you landed on "Go to jail" with that one. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL!!! </font>[/QUOTE]You men are comparing apples to oranges... doesn't work!!!! </font>[/QUOTE]It's called reaching...

[JR JAM]

Originally posted by Leslie:
[disagree - but damnit EVERYBODY judges and I really do not buy that "it's not my place" argument. God gave me the right to call a fool a fool as he did you - and there was a reason for it.God did not give a right to call anybody a fool!

[larry rauson]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
So when that famous white actress(I forgot her name) posed with her pregnant stomach fully exposed on the cover of a famous magazine, the world thought she was beautiful and it was a great thing to do.....but this is ugly? I don't get it with some of y'all elitist(or could it be prejudice) attitudes.

I hope that everyone here who is pointing fingers and criticising have perfect lives and have daughters and sons who are picture perfect, because if they are not, I don't see how some here could deal.

So because she is pregnant she should be shun from society, miss out on the rest of life memory. Maybe the dress might not be to your taste, but she likes it! The pregnancy happened, it's done, now deal with it in a civil manner....this is what will determine if you are bring a new life in the world or destroying two.

And why shouldn't she go to the prom, do you think by her going, it is going to influence the other girls to get pregnant, all of a sudden....pleaaaasssse!

The attitude of some here is why young girls hide their pregnancy and leave their newborn in hideous places. Check yourself. Ray, normally I generally agree with you, but this time you are off the mark. Point by point, Demi Moore got paid a whole lot of money to pose, it' was her Job, she took care of her family by doing that, and if you remember there was quite a bit of flack directed at Ms. Moore for her decision...this young lady did not get paid, and that dress is taking care of no one. No she should not be shunned for being pregnant, but on the other hand she shouldn't glamorize it either, in this day and age being 17 and pregnant isn't only sad, it's stupid on the part of everyone ionvolved. No, she should not be going to the prom. Adults don't go to proms. The money she's obviously going to spend on prom materials would be better used used preparing to raise a child. The position that some attitudes here are the reasons young girls do what they do to their children is rediculous. These girls do wht they do cuz they are selfish and self centered, not to mention scared and stupid. When a young girl abandons their child somewhere it has nothing to do with outside attitudes, she ios only thinking about herself, nothing, or no one else. I think ray your response to the other posts was a little bit reactionary.

Larry

[Ken1015]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
and to even think this has anything to do with race is ludacris graemlins/jpshakehead.gif ludacris = ludicrous
fabolous = fabulous

Rappers are killing the language.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fred:
hahaha @ the fashion police coming out with tear gas and rubber bullets n shit kinda like the Scarlet Letter </font>[/QUOTE]In - fvukin' - deed.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Soulful1015:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
and to even think this has anything to do with race is ludacris graemlins/jpshakehead.gif ludacris = ludicrous
fabolous = fabulous

Rappers are killing the language. </font>[/QUOTE]graemlins/lol.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Soulful1015:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
and to even think this has anything to do with race is ludacris graemlins/jpshakehead.gif ludacris = ludicrous
fabolous = fabulous

Rappers are killing the language. </font>[/QUOTE]graemlins/lol.gif graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Oh man. That is SOOOOO on point. All disagreement aside - that is bananas, man!!!!
graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

[Gojay]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
So when that famous white actress(I forgot her name) posed with her pregnant stomach fully exposed on the cover of a famous magazine, the world thought she was beautiful and it was a great thing to do.....but this is ugly? I don't get it with some of y'all elitist(or could it be prejudice) attitudes.

I hope that everyone here who is pointing fingers and criticising have perfect lives and have daughters and sons who are picture perfect, because if they are not, I don't see how some here could deal.

So because she is pregnant she should be shun from society, miss out on the rest of life memory. Maybe the dress might not be to your taste, but she likes it! The pregnancy happened, it's done, now deal with it in a civil manner....this is what will determine if you are bring a new life in the world or destroying two.

And why shouldn't she go to the prom, do you think by her going, it is going to influence the other girls to get pregnant, all of a sudden....pleaaaasssse!

The attitude of some here is why young girls hide their pregnancy and leave their newborn in hideous places. Check yourself. I find pregnancy in women to be a beautiful(sometimes sexy) thing! I check women who are pregnant just like I would with any other women that appeals to my fancy/taste. But that is just plain tacky , no matter what age(or race) the women/girl is! My daughter would not leave my house with something like that on!

peace,
gojay

[ June 12, 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Gojay ]

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
So when that famous white actress(I forgot her name) posed with her pregnant stomach fully exposed on the cover of a famous magazine, the world thought she was beautiful and it was a great thing to do.....but this is ugly? I don't get it with some of y'all elitist(or could it be prejudice) attitudes.

I hope that everyone here who is pointing fingers and criticising have perfect lives and have daughters and sons who are picture perfect, because if they are not, I don't see how some here could deal.

So because she is pregnant she should be shun from society, miss out on the rest of life memory. Maybe the dress might not be to your taste, but she likes it! The pregnancy happened, it's done, now deal with it in a civil manner....this is what will determine if you are bring a new life in the world or destroying two.

And why shouldn't she go to the prom, do you think by her going, it is going to influence the other girls to get pregnant, all of a sudden....pleaaaasssse!

The attitude of some here is why young girls hide their pregnancy and leave their newborn in hideous places. Check yourself. Ray, normally I generally agree with you, but this time you are off the mark. Point by point, Demi Moore got paid a whole lot of money to pose, it' was her Job, she took care of her family by doing that, and if you remember there was quite a bit of flack directed at Ms. Moore for her decision...this young lady did not get paid, and that dress is taking care of no one. No she should not be shunned for being pregnant, but on the other hand she shouldn't glamorize it either, in this day and age being 17 and pregnant isn't only sad, it's stupid on the part of everyone ionvolved. No, she should not be going to the prom. Adults don't go to proms. The money she's obviously going to spend on prom materials would be better used used preparing to raise a child. The position that some attitudes here are the reasons young girls do what they do to their children is rediculous. These girls do wht they do cuz they are selfish and self centered, not to mention scared and stupid. When a young girl abandons their child somewhere it has nothing to do with outside attitudes, she ios only thinking about herself, nothing, or no one else. I think ray your response to the other posts was a little bit reactionary.

Larry </font>[/QUOTE]and there it is...

[ June 12, 2003, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
So when that famous white actress(I forgot her name) posed with her pregnant stomach fully exposed on the cover of a famous magazine, the world thought she was beautiful and it was a great thing to do.....but this is ugly? I don't get it with some of y'all elitist(or could it be prejudice) attitudes.

I hope that everyone here who is pointing fingers and criticising have perfect lives and have daughters and sons who are picture perfect, because if they are not, I don't see how some here could deal.

So because she is pregnant she should be shun from society, miss out on the rest of life memory. Maybe the dress might not be to your taste, but she likes it! The pregnancy happened, it's done, now deal with it in a civil manner....this is what will determine if you are bring a new life in the world or destroying two.

And why shouldn't she go to the prom, do you think by her going, it is going to influence the other girls to get pregnant, all of a sudden....pleaaaasssse!

The attitude of some here is why young girls hide their pregnancy and leave their newborn in hideous places. Check yourself. Ray, normally I generally agree with you, but this time you are off the mark. Point by point, Demi Moore got paid a whole lot of money to pose, it' was her Job, she took care of her family by doing that, and if you remember there was quite a bit of flack directed at Ms. Moore for her decision...this young lady did not get paid, and that dress is taking care of no one. No she should not be shunned for being pregnant, but on the other hand she shouldn't glamorize it either, in this day and age being 17 and pregnant isn't only sad, it's stupid on the part of everyone ionvolved. No, she should not be going to the prom. Adults don't go to proms. The money she's obviously going to spend on prom materials would be better used used preparing to raise a child. The position that some attitudes here are the reasons young girls do what they do to their children is rediculous. These girls do wht they do cuz they are selfish and self centered, not to mention scared and stupid. When a young girl abandons their child somewhere it has nothing to do with outside attitudes, she ios only thinking about herself, nothing, or no one else. I think ray your response to the other posts was a little bit reactionary.

Larry </font>[/QUOTE]and there it is... </font>[/QUOTE]there is what!!!???....I don't agree with what he said, especially the part about being sad because you are pregnant and 17. I know countless friends who were that age and pregnant and yes, it was rough at the time, but they ended up doing more with their life than most. oThere are many other points in Larry's response that I truly with every fiber of my being disagree with but....

You know what, like it was said before, let's agree to disagree.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>you damn right she was making a statement...a very inappropriate one...what in the hell happened to traditions...just out the window...I agree wholeheartedly with you Leslie, todays youth have lost it...what happened to evening gowns and tuxedo's...will she be one of the ones who want to get creative with dressing at a job interview, board meeting, business luncheon, after five black tie affair...this is absolutely crazy...that dress and that child is disgraceful...and to even think this has anything to do with race is ludacris graemlins/jpshakehead.gif </font>[/QUOTE]A lecture on prom traditions coming from a sista with dreads posing in kente straddling a phallic symbol. :rolleyes:

It's all love Love...but you landed on "Go to jail" with that one. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL!!! </font>[/QUOTE]You men are comparing apples to oranges... doesn't work!!!! </font>[/QUOTE]It's called reaching... </font>[/QUOTE]It's called NEARSIGHTEDNESS.

So, Ashaki allows a picture of her totally freaked out in dreads, kente, barefoot and straddling a tribal symbol with phallic overtones on the top of a message board that gets 250,000 page hits a day.

Then, she turns around and brings a picture to the board of a child for the intent of demonstrating a viewpoint - a demonstration that requires ridicule.

Both pictures depict a woman who has avoided whitening herself via hair relaxers, who shows more skin than many would find appropriate and who rocks a statement that most Americans would not agree with.

But the kid is a fool. And Ashaki is the DHP African Monarch.

You know, sistas stick together in crazy clusters sometimes. "I got yo back, gurl...until I don't."

MYOR, Leslie - why can't the SISTA in the picture Ashaki brought get some love, hm? Just askin'.

[mhd]

some families support pregnant teens because they realize that a child is on the way and that its too late to chastize the kid

[Martin Red]

http://www.jbhs1980.com/dance/prom.jpg
http://www.redbank.com/images/features/nytrends3.gif http://www.kaet.asu.edu/50s/grfx/prom.jpg
atdp.berkeley.edu/9931/jvillafl/wulanfebry.jpg


biggrinangel.gif


http://www.tuxedosbylee.com/images/w_prom_1_medium.jpg graemlins/rofl.gif

[Koffy Brown]

[/qb][/QUOTE]A lecture on prom traditions coming from a sista with dreads posing in kente straddling a phallic symbol. :rolleyes:

It's all love Love...but you landed on "Go to jail" with that one. graemlins/rofl.gif [/qb][/QUOTE]GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL!!! [/qb][/QUOTE]You men are comparing apples to oranges... doesn't work!!!! [/qb][/QUOTE]It's called reaching... [/qb][/QUOTE]It's called NEARSIGHTEDNESS.

So, Ashaki allows a picture of her totally freaked out in dreads, kente, barefoot and straddling a tribal symbol with phallic overtones on the top of a message board that gets 250,000 page hits a day.

Then, she turns around and brings a picture to the board of a child for the intent of demonstrating a viewpoint - a demonstration that requires ridicule.

Both pictures depict a woman who has avoided whitening herself via hair relaxers, who shows more skin than many would find appropriate and who rocks a statement that most Americans would not agree with.

But the kid is a fool. And Ashaki is the DHP African Monarch.

You know, sistas stick together in crazy clusters sometimes. "I got yo back, gurl...until I don't."

MYOR, Leslie - why can't the SISTA in the picture Ashaki brought get some love, hm? Just askin'. [/QB][/QUOTE]


http://deephousepage.com/smilies/lach.gif

all I can do is laugh at you because you are serious...aren't you...

now, if I wouldn't have posted my pic here, the only way you would've seen it was to come to my crib...

I didn't go to prom in that outfit I didn't hang out in that outfit...why do I even bother with you sometimes...actually I'm laughing...you are still a cutey pie...regardless...

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
QUOTE]It's called reaching... [/qb]It's called NEARSIGHTEDNESS.

So, Ashaki allows a picture of her totally freaked out in dreads, kente, barefoot and straddling a tribal symbol with phallic overtones on the top of a message board that gets 250,000 page hits a day.

Then, she turns around and brings a picture to the board of a child for the intent of demonstrating a viewpoint - a demonstration that requires ridicule.

Both pictures depict a woman who has avoided whitening herself via hair relaxers, who shows more skin than many would find appropriate and who rocks a statement that most Americans would not agree with.

But the kid is a fool. And Ashaki is the DHP African Monarch.

You know, sistas stick together in crazy clusters sometimes. "I got yo back, gurl...until I don't."

MYOR, Leslie - why can't the SISTA in the picture Ashaki brought get some love, hm? Just askin'. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Becuase I just plain and simple would never let someone I know out the house with a dress like that..

As far as Ashaki's picture... You gotta being kiddin me if you think those pictures can even be compared...

Besides Ashaki=Adult
Ugly Prom Dress=Teenager..

Ashaki=Classy
Teen Dress=Tacky

[liL Ray]

I guess those pictures are acceptable wear, just like "The Waltons" was the acceptable family and way of life....oh, the good ole days.....BULLSHIT!!

[ June 12, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
A lecture on prom traditions coming from a sista with dreads posing in kente straddling a phallic symbol. :rolleyes:

It's all love Love...but you landed on "Go to jail" with that one. graemlins/rofl.gif [/qb][/QUOTE]GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL!!! [/qb][/QUOTE]You men are comparing apples to oranges... doesn't work!!!! [/qb][/QUOTE]It's called reaching... [/qb][/QUOTE]It's called NEARSIGHTEDNESS.

So, Ashaki allows a picture of her totally freaked out in dreads, kente, barefoot and straddling a tribal symbol with phallic overtones on the top of a message board that gets 250,000 page hits a day.

Then, she turns around and brings a picture to the board of a child for the intent of demonstrating a viewpoint - a demonstration that requires ridicule.

Both pictures depict a woman who has avoided whitening herself via hair relaxers, who shows more skin than many would find appropriate and who rocks a statement that most Americans would not agree with.

But the kid is a fool. And Ashaki is the DHP African Monarch.

You know, sistas stick together in crazy clusters sometimes. "I got yo back, gurl...until I don't."

MYOR, Leslie - why can't the SISTA in the picture Ashaki brought get some love, hm? Just askin'. [/QB][/QUOTE]


http://deephousepage.com/smilies/lach.gif

all I can do is laugh at you because you are serious...aren't you...

now, if I wouldn't have posted my pic here, the only way you would've seen it was to come to my crib...

I didn't go to prom in that outfit I didn't hang out in that outfit...why do I even bother with you sometimes...actually I'm laughing...you are still a cutey pie...regardless... [/QB][/QUOTE]

No answers though, hm? Of course not.

See, you DID post the pic here. BOTH of them. The one of YOU that was supposed to be ACCEPTABLE and the one of the GIRL what was supposed to be UNACCEPTABLE.

See Ashaki, if you hadn't of posted BOTH PICTURES, I wouldn't have been able to see either of them to relate them to a point. The picture you posted of yourself was intended for others to see. The picture of the kid was meant for her family and friends to see.

hmmmmm

Maybe the topic should be "Why is hypocracy so pleasurable?"

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
[

MYOR, Leslie - why can't the SISTA in the picture Ashaki brought get some love, hm? Just askin'. [/QB]Maybe you have to be blessed to be a woman to understand where many of us ladies are coming from. Maybe you need to have some of the experiences I and undoubtedly many other women on this board have had and seen many of the things we seen - including the results of certain behaviors and actions. Again, maybe this is a woman grounded in the real world thing - not that we all have to agree on this, but there are aspects of it you just don't get and your question above proves that. It's because we have love for her that we are not happy. Again, I suppose you would need to be a woman to fully understand that.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by mhd:
some families support pregnant teens because they realize that a child is on the way and that its too late to chastize the kid I can support my child..

But I'm not Blind to think that dress actually looks good..

[Koffy Brown]

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/lach.gif

all I can do is laugh at you because you are serious...aren't you...

now, if I wouldn't have posted my pic here, the only way you would've seen it was to come to my crib...

I didn't go to prom in that outfit I didn't hang out in that outfit...why do I even bother with you sometimes...actually I'm laughing...you are still a cutey pie...regardless... [/QB][/QUOTE]

No answers though, hm? Of course not.

See, you DID post the pic here. BOTH of them. The one of YOU that was supposed to be ACCEPTABLE and the one of the GIRL what was supposed to be UNACCEPTABLE.

See Ashaki, if you hadn't of posted BOTH PICTURES, I wouldn't have been able to see either of them to relate them to a point. The picture you posted of yourself was intended for others to see. The picture of the kid was meant for her family and friends to see.

hmmmmm

Maybe the topic should be "Why is hypocracy so pleasurable?" [/QB][/QUOTE]

Bold, first of all this thread is about the young teenager going to prom with her belly cut out of a dress...

Secondly, there was a whole thread devoted to my pic..you had ample of opp to post your dislike at that time...

the picture here is absolutely ridiculous...it has nothing to do with the child being black...it's an ugly dress, it's an inappropriate dress for such an occassion...and yes this is just my opinion...I did not bring the picture here to ridicule this child...as you put it...I bought the picture here because it was a hot topic on another message board plain and simple...please try not to get in my head....mkay...you like the dress...I don't, now what's your point again...

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
[

MYOR, Leslie - why can't the SISTA in the picture Ashaki brought get some love, hm? Just askin'. Maybe you have to be blessed to be a woman to understand where many of us ladies are coming from. Maybe you need to have some of the experiences I and undoubtedly many other women on this board have had and seen many of the things we seen - including the results of certain behaviors and actions. Again, maybe this is a woman grounded in the real world thing - not that we all have to agree on this, but there are aspects of it you just don't get and your question above proves that. It's because we have love for her that we are not happy. Again, I suppose you would need to be a woman to fully understand that. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Since when has CATTINESS been about love? More about self-loathing. Don't make this shit some crusade.

See, I have women in my life that are "sistas"...and they support other "sistas". Ridicule, chastisement, notions of appropriate behavior - none of it is acceptable to them. They work on solving PROBLEMS not people.

I've been taken in as a teenager by real sistas - and slept next to two girls whose mothers threw them out on the street once they got pregnant. I've helped dress sistas for prom. I've helped deliver their babies.

I have yet to see an example of a REAL SISTA'S words in this thread. Some counterfeit, waitin' to hate on another sista words maybe.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Maybe the topic should be "Why is hypocracy so pleasurable?" [/QB]You can honestly say you will let your daughter out the house dress in this fashion??

Or are you the one being hypocritical?

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Maybe the topic should be "Why is hypocracy so pleasurable?" You can honestly say you will let your daughter out the house dress in this fashion??

Or are you the one being hypocritical? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Let's both pray for the latter...

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Maybe the topic should be "Why is hypocracy so pleasurable?" You can honestly say you will let your daughter out the house dress in this fashion??

Or are you the one being hypocritical? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]My answer would be impossible to verify, wouldn't it.

[mhd]

Question, do you think she has little self-esteem or a lot of self-esteem?

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
[

MYOR, Leslie - why can't the SISTA in the picture Ashaki brought get some love, hm? Just askin'. Maybe you have to be blessed to be a woman to understand where many of us ladies are coming from. Maybe you need to have some of the experiences I and undoubtedly many other women on this board have had and seen many of the things we seen - including the results of certain behaviors and actions. Again, maybe this is a woman grounded in the real world thing - not that we all have to agree on this, but there are aspects of it you just don't get and your question above proves that. It's because we have love for her that we are not happy. Again, I suppose you would need to be a woman to fully understand that. </font>[/QUOTE]Since when has CATTINESS been about love? More about self-loathing. Don't make this shit some crusade.

See, I have women in my life that are "sistas"...and they support other "sistas". Ridicule, chastisement, notions of appropriate behavior - none of it is acceptable to them. They work on solving PROBLEMS not people.

I've been taken in as a teenager by real sistas - and slept next to two girls whose mothers threw them out on the street once they got pregnant. I've helped dress sistas for prom. I've helped deliver their babies.

I have yet to see an example of a REAL SISTA'S words in this thread. Some counterfeit, waitin' to hate on another sista words maybe. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]You need to keep focused here..

The only one being catty here is you... Please don't get it twisted... I don't find the way this girl is dress to her prom to be appropriate.. Nothing with being a real sista and having my girls back... We just happen to agree.. thats all.. we are just keeping it real..

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Maybe the topic should be "Why is hypocracy so pleasurable?" You can honestly say you will let your daughter out the house dress in this fashion??

Or are you the one being hypocritical? </font>[/QUOTE]Let's both pray for the latter... [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Hmmmm - do as I say, not as I do - eh Ashaki?

[Wild i]

You know, we really need to get past the notion that it is not society's place to judge its members. It most certainly is. That is, in fact, the entire basis of society.

It is our job to set and enforce the standards of society. That does not mean we must be draconian, but that "I'm okay, you're okay," TM nonsense is for the birds. That's why we have 6 year-olds taking guns to school and parents of 6 year-olds making it possible.

The dress is inappropriate by PREVAILING SOCIETAL STANDARDS.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Maybe the topic should be "Why is hypocracy so pleasurable?" You can honestly say you will let your daughter out the house dress in this fashion??

Or are you the one being hypocritical? </font>[/QUOTE]My answer would be impossible to verify, wouldn't it. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]NO just be honest with yourself... I don't need to veryfy it... Just don't say something to prove your point.. BE HONEST...

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by mhd:
Question, do you think she has little self-esteem or a lot of self-esteem? this cannot be determined...

[Gojay]

Besides women who carry a baby full term and turn around and kill, dump or hurt that bay should be shot!(unless of course they're mentally incapable of caring for the child). Here in the USa there are alternatives to dumpimg a baby ,It's called Adoption(or abortion)! Hell there's women with no arms and legs who takes better care of their children than most!


peace'
gojay

[fred da warrior]

Originally posted by mhd:
Question, do you think she has little self-esteem or a lot of self-esteem? Probably more self esteem than most are willing to consider given the 2 message boards of discussion with 10+ threads apiece.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by mhd:
Question, do you think she has little self-esteem or a lot of self-esteem? She must have a lot of self-esteem to be able to wear this dress...

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
[

MYOR, Leslie - why can't the SISTA in the picture Ashaki brought get some love, hm? Just askin'. Maybe you have to be blessed to be a woman to understand where many of us ladies are coming from. Maybe you need to have some of the experiences I and undoubtedly many other women on this board have had and seen many of the things we seen - including the results of certain behaviors and actions. Again, maybe this is a woman grounded in the real world thing - not that we all have to agree on this, but there are aspects of it you just don't get and your question above proves that. It's because we have love for her that we are not happy. Again, I suppose you would need to be a woman to fully understand that. </font>[/QUOTE]Since when has CATTINESS been about love? More about self-loathing. Don't make this shit some crusade.

See, I have women in my life that are "sistas"...and they support other "sistas". Ridicule, chastisement, notions of appropriate behavior - none of it is acceptable to them. They work on solving PROBLEMS not people.

I've been taken in as a teenager by real sistas - and slept next to two girls whose mothers threw them out on the street once they got pregnant. I've helped dress sistas for prom. I've helped deliver their babies.

I have yet to see an example of a REAL SISTA'S words in this thread. Some counterfeit, waitin' to hate on another sista words maybe. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]graemlins/rofl.gif Man you are a riot today! icon_rofl.gif

Bold Soul as usual you resort to what you do best, trying to make people wrong cause you are the only one's who's ever right on this board. You are straight comedy man! Your self loathing comes through in every thread you post on. The reason you don't have many friends (as you pointed out) might be because you don't even like yourself, so you decide to make everyone wrong, cause you can't find a way to make yourself happy. Dude go for it! Oh and whatever response you want to hurl at me do us both and everyone else on this board a favor and for once shut the **** up and go somewhere and sit down.
But thank you cause your response was the laugh I needed today - STRAIGHT COMEDY! graemlins/rofl.gif

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Wild i:
You know, we really need to get past the notion that it is not society's place to judge its members. It most certainly is. That is, in fact, the entire basis of society.

It is our job to set and enforce the standards of society. That does not mean we must be draconian, but that "I'm okay, you're okay," TM nonsense is for the birds. That's why we have 6 year-olds taking guns to school and parents of 6 year-olds making it possible.

The dress is inappropriate by PREVAILING SOCIETAL STANDARDS. very good point...

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Maybe the topic should be "Why is hypocracy so pleasurable?" You can honestly say you will let your daughter out the house dress in this fashion??

Or are you the one being hypocritical? </font>[/QUOTE]My answer would be impossible to verify, wouldn't it. </font>[/QUOTE]NO just be honest with yourself... I don't need to veryfy it... Just don't say something to prove your point.. BE HONEST... [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Cognition and free association is what I work to instill in my children. Most of the challenges they learn cognition and free association from are those in which they come up against the rules of their other parent.

Honor, valor and discretion are the principals I offer them. I teach them to uphold those three in all they do.

[mhd]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
Question, do you think she has little self-esteem or a lot of self-esteem? this cannot be determined... </font>[/QUOTE]true, but there is a lot we can't determine yet we still have strong opinions, for example we don't know if she is at home, or even if she has parents, etc. but based on the photo alone, what do you think?

[Koffy Brown]

graemlins/lol.gif you too...well a laugh was in order my Catty Sistah counterpart... graemlins/rofl.gif

[mhd]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wild i:
You know, we really need to get past the notion that it is not society's place to judge its members. It most certainly is. That is, in fact, the entire basis of society.

It is our job to set and enforce the standards of society. That does not mean we must be draconian, but that "I'm okay, you're okay," TM nonsense is for the birds. That's why we have 6 year-olds taking guns to school and parents of 6 year-olds making it possible.

The dress is inappropriate by PREVAILING SOCIETAL STANDARDS. very good point... </font>[/QUOTE]which society are we speaking of?

[Koffy Brown]

[/qb][/QUOTE]You can honestly say you will let your daughter out the house dress in this fashion??

Or are you the one being hypocritical? [/qb][/QUOTE]My answer would be impossible to verify, wouldn't it. [/qb][/QUOTE]NO just be honest with yourself... I don't need to veryfy it... Just don't say something to prove your point.. BE HONEST... [/QB][/QUOTE]Cognition and free association is what I work to instill in my children. Most of the challenges they learn cognition and free association from are those in which they come up against the rules of their other parent.

Honor, valor and discretion are the principals I offer them. I teach them to uphold those three in all they do. [/QB][/QUOTE]


WOULD YOU OR WOULDN'T YOU LET YOUR DAUGHTER WEAR THIS DRESS TO HER PROM...YES OR NO...MAN... :rolleyes:

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
QUOTE]Cognition and free association is what I work to instill in my children. Most of the challenges they learn cognition and free association from are those in which they come up against the rules of their other parent.

Honor, valor and discretion are the principals I offer them. I teach them to uphold those three in all they do. [/QB]Don't dance around the question.. ANSWER IT..

Actually forget it by your little dance you have answer it for me.. ;)

[Bold Soul]

Okay. Cool. I'll bite - I agree. See, it doesn't matter because even if you all won't admit to your bullshit, your kids will see through it. And they'll behave accordingly.

The first thing a kid learns when dealing with the commands of an adult is to CONSIDER THE SOURCE. See, that gives a kid justification to DISOBEY.

But ok - I'll shut up. Gotta go - taking my kid dress shopping. graemlins/rofl.gif

[mhd]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
Question, do you think she has little self-esteem or a lot of self-esteem? She must have a lot of self-esteem to be able to wear this dress... </font>[/QUOTE]that's what i was thinking

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wild i:
You know, we really need to get past the notion that it is not society's place to judge its members. It most certainly is. That is, in fact, the entire basis of society.

It is our job to set and enforce the standards of society. That does not mean we must be draconian, but that "I'm okay, you're okay," TM nonsense is for the birds. That's why we have 6 year-olds taking guns to school and parents of 6 year-olds making it possible.

The dress is inappropriate by PREVAILING SOCIETAL STANDARDS. very good point... </font>[/QUOTE]which society are we speaking of? </font>[/QUOTE]Which society?? *sigh*

[fred da warrior]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
Question, do you think she has little self-esteem or a lot of self-esteem? this cannot be determined... </font>[/QUOTE]I think that most of the gnashing of teeth and stomping of feet about this picture is grounded in assumptions that somehow by virtue of this photo the girl is going to be the next welfare recipent when we really don't know jack bone about her family life or anything else about her.

[mhd]

Originally posted by fred:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
Question, do you think she has little self-esteem or a lot of self-esteem? this cannot be determined... </font>[/QUOTE]I think that most of the gnashing of teeth and stomping of feet about this picture is grounded in assumptions that somehow by virtue of this photo the girl is going to be the next welfare recipent when we really don't know jack bone about her family life or anything else about her. </font>[/QUOTE]thank you

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by Gojay:
Besides women who carry a baby full term and turn around and kill, dump or hurt that bay should be shot!(unless of course they're mentally incapable of caring for the child). Here in the USa there are alternatives to dumpimg a baby ,It's called Adoption(or abortion)!

peace'
gojay Oh, boy, you don't want me to get started on this, because GMAN will ban me! These ****ing right to lifers with their don't get an abortion, but then the are no where around when the baby is born and only there to pass draconian laws to put these misled mothers in jail for abondoning their child, and oh, by the way, these teenagers was raised by these ****ed up parents who threaten them with damn near death if they ever get pregnant, no wonder they wanna hide the pregancy and then the baby....NO, don't get me ****ing started!!!

Yeah, Gojay, I guess with all the injustices that have been heaped on them, why not another injustice like a little shot to the brain.

AAaaaarrrrrggghhhh!!!!

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Okay. Cool. I'll bite - I agree. See, it doesn't matter because even if you all won't admit to your bullshit, your kids will see through it. And they'll behave accordingly.

The first thing a kid learns when dealing with the commands of an adult is to CONSIDER THE SOURCE. See, that gives a kid justification to DISOBEY.

But ok - I'll shut up. Gotta go - taking my kid dress shopping. graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
You can honestly say you will let your daughter out the house dress in this fashion??

Or are you the one being hypocritical? [/qb][/QUOTE]My answer would be impossible to verify, wouldn't it. [/qb][/QUOTE]NO just be honest with yourself... I don't need to veryfy it... Just don't say something to prove your point.. BE HONEST... [/QB][/QUOTE]Cognition and free association is what I work to instill in my children. Most of the challenges they learn cognition and free association from are those in which they come up against the rules of their other parent.

Honor, valor and discretion are the principals I offer them. I teach them to uphold those three in all they do. [/QB][/QUOTE]


WOULD YOU OR WOULDN'T YOU LET YOUR DAUGHTER WEAR THIS DRESS TO HER PROM...YES OR NO...MAN... :rolleyes: [/QB][/QUOTE]

I don't LET my kids do anything. I allow them to make choices and assist them in making those choices.

I get an understanding of what they want and then I help them to understand why. That's the only answer I can give you.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
You can honestly say you will let your daughter out the house dress in this fashion??

Or are you the one being hypocritical? </font>[/QUOTE]My answer would be impossible to verify, wouldn't it. [/qb][/QUOTE]NO just be honest with yourself... I don't need to veryfy it... Just don't say something to prove your point.. BE HONEST... [/QB][/QUOTE]Cognition and free association is what I work to instill in my children. Most of the challenges they learn cognition and free association from are those in which they come up against the rules of their other parent.

Honor, valor and discretion are the principals I offer them. I teach them to uphold those three in all they do. [/QB][/QUOTE]


WOULD YOU OR WOULDN'T YOU LET YOUR DAUGHTER WEAR THIS DRESS TO HER PROM...YES OR NO...MAN... :rolleyes: [/QB][/QUOTE]

I don't LET my kids do anything. I allow them to make choices and assist them in making those choices.

I get an understanding of what they want and then I help them to understand why. That's the only answer I can give you. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Translation:: No I will not allow my daughter to go to the prom dressed this way... graemlins/tongueout.gif

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Actually, I think that this dress was to make a point. It seems to me the way she is not that excited, that her mother may have purposedly put a whole in the dress to embarrass her. At least that is what I am hoping, no one in their right mind would do something like that without wanting to embarrass the girl :eek:

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
You can honestly say you will let your daughter out the house dress in this fashion??

Or are you the one being hypocritical? </font>[/QUOTE]My answer would be impossible to verify, wouldn't it. </font>[/QUOTE]NO just be honest with yourself... I don't need to veryfy it... Just don't say something to prove your point.. BE HONEST... [/QB][/QUOTE]Cognition and free association is what I work to instill in my children. Most of the challenges they learn cognition and free association from are those in which they come up against the rules of their other parent.

Honor, valor and discretion are the principals I offer them. I teach them to uphold those three in all they do. [/QB][/QUOTE]


WOULD YOU OR WOULDN'T YOU LET YOUR DAUGHTER WEAR THIS DRESS TO HER PROM...YES OR NO...MAN... :rolleyes: [/QB][/QUOTE]

I don't LET my kids do anything. I allow them to make choices and assist them in making those choices.

I get an understanding of what they want and then I help them to understand why. That's the only answer I can give you. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Translation:: No I will not allow my daughter to go to the prom dressed this way... graemlins/tongueout.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]

Actually, the last three times you could say I lost was...

1. Grand Theft Auto 3 (last Wednesday)

2. 50 Cent Concert (from a First Chair-First Row Violinist, no less)

3. 8th Grade end of year Dance (warned her about plenty).

I can only hope that my daughters have the ambivalence (sp?) that the girl in the picture has toward propriety. Right now, it seems that my oldest is going to become a priss. Ugh.

[mhd]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
Actually, I think that this dress was to make a point. It seems to me the way she is not that excited, that her mother may have purposedly put a whole in the dress to embarrass her. At least that is what I am hoping, no one in their right mind would do something like that without wanting to embarrass the girl :eek: what mother?

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
Actually, I think that this dress was to make a point. It seems to me the way she is not that excited, that her mother may have purposedly put a whole in the dress to embarrass her. At least that is what I am hoping, no one in their right mind would do something like that without wanting to embarrass the girl :eek: I can see that. Maybe its a bad pic, but her body language is a bit meek.

Then again, maybe she just caught a glimpse of what her date was wearing. Once can only imagine what the tux looks like, hm?

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Translation:: No I will not allow my daughter to go to the prom dressed this way... graemlins/tongueout.gif [/QB]Actually, the last three times you could say I lost was...

1. Grand Theft Auto 3 (last Wednesday)

2. 50 Cent Concert (from a First Chair-First Row Violinist, no less)

3. 8th Grade end of year Dance (warned her about plenty).

I can only hope that my daughters have the ambivalence (sp?) that the girl in the picture has toward propriety. Right now, it seems that my oldest is going to become a priss. Ugh. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Bold Soul, After countless times of seeing your post some make sense, some don't... And to see how you want to always "Win" with us that are not your children and how it almost seems you want to pound in our head your way of thinking..

I REALLY can't see you being different with your child... People tolerate things strangers do more than their child...

[ June 12, 2003, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: MYOR ]

[Discogoddess]

One can only hope that these oh-so-deep and accepting men around here are NEVER, EVER making statements/engaging in behaviors that judge, belittle, uneccesarily sexualize or marginalize women, since they are oh-so good about checking sistagurl cards in this thread!

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Translation:: No I will not allow my daughter to go to the prom dressed this way... graemlins/tongueout.gif Actually, the last three times you could say I lost was...

1. Grand Theft Auto 3 (last Wednesday)

2. 50 Cent Concert (from a First Chair-First Row Violinist, no less)

3. 8th Grade end of year Dance (warned her about plenty).

I can only hope that my daughters have the ambivalence (sp?) that the girl in the picture has toward propriety. Right now, it seems that my oldest is going to become a priss. Ugh. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Bold Soul, After countless times of seeing your post some make sense, some don't... And to see how you want to always "Win" with us that are not your children and how it almost seems you want to pound in our head your way of thinking..

I REALLY can't see you being different with your child... People tolerate things strangers do more than their child... [/QB][/QUOTE]

Well, you can't really see me at all. You can see your computer screen. If you want to see me, holla. If you want to affirm your notions, keep believing whatever you want.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
One can only hope that these oh-so-deep and accepting men around here are NEVER, EVER making statements/engaging in behaviors that judge, belittle, uneccesarily sexualize or marginalize women, since they are oh-so good about checking sistagurl cards in this thread! Humanity is doomed because its female is under the heel of its mythology. Both males and females are responsible for this condition.

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
One can only hope that these oh-so-deep and accepting men around here are NEVER, EVER making statements/engaging in behaviors that judge, belittle, uneccesarily sexualize or marginalize women, since they are oh-so good about checking sistagurl cards in this thread! was this an attempt at sarcasm?

First thing, I'm not a "oh-so-deep" man...for the record, I hate those ****s.

Secondly, I call it how I see it.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Discogoddess:
One can only hope that these oh-so-deep and accepting men around here are NEVER, EVER making statements/engaging in behaviors that judge, belittle, uneccesarily sexualize or marginalize women, since they are oh-so good about checking sistagurl cards in this thread! was this an attempt at sarcasm?

First thing, I'm not a "oh-so-deep" man...for the record, I hate those ****s.

Secondly, I call it how I see it. </font>[/QUOTE]Actually Ray, it was a rather deft use of the most popular fallacy of logic used on the DHP:

Attacking the Person:
* (1) the person's character is attacked
* (2) the person's circumstances are noted
* (3) the person does not practise what is preached

For more, check The Logical Fallacies Index (http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm) , chocked full of debate interrupting goodness. graemlins/rofl.gif

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
One can only hope that these oh-so-deep and accepting men around here are NEVER, EVER making statements/engaging in behaviors that judge, belittle, uneccesarily sexualize or marginalize women, since they are oh-so good about checking sistagurl cards in this thread! Oh checking sistagurls, is that what they are doing? I haven't noticed, considering their attention span is only so short. The conversation with us and some of the men (NOT ALL MEN) are mostly trying to make the women wrong. Knowing damn well if they knew their daughters were having sex and with boys they do not approve of, not to mention getting pregnant, they will have a stroke graemlins/scared.gif

[richierich]

Actually I have an 18yr. old daughter and after all that we have shown and told her the possibility still exists that she could be having sex without our knowledge. You just can't be everywhere all the time and people still make their own decisions. If my daughter got pregnant.. sure I would be a little disappointed but after that it's time to come up with a plan to start preparing for a grandchild. Life will go on and it will not be the end of the world. Tennagers have been getting pregnant since the dawn of time. When you **** that's what can happen. I'm syre peeps here have had unprotected sex at least 10 times intheir lives.

[Discogoddess]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Actually Ray, it was a rather deft use of the most popular fallacy of logic used on the DHP:

Attacking the Person:
* (1) the person's character is attacked
* (2) the person's circumstances are noted
* (3) the person does not practise what is preached

For more, check The Logical Fallacies Index (http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm) , chocked full of debate interrupting goodness. graemlins/rofl.gif BoldSoul, aren't you one of the MAIN ONES doing 1-3, as noted above? I haven't been on this site long, but I have noticed that you have:

1. Called into question people's intelligence (on the "What do Mexicans..." thread) and character (in this and the "Would you let your pregnant teen attend the prom?" thread);

2. Have noted people's circumstances (implying that Ashaki is a hypocrite because she posted both a picture of herself and a picture of the pregnant teen going to prom);

3. Have not "practiced what you preach" (stressing how freethinking and accepting you are of your kids, yet being judgemental and condescending to adults on this site).

You have some nerve! graemlins/rofl.gif

It must be hard to have to always be right, huh? :D

[ June 12, 2003, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Discogoddess ]

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Actually Ray, it was a rather deft use of the most popular fallacy of logic used on the DHP:

Attacking the Person:
* (1) the person's character is attacked
* (2) the person's circumstances are noted
* (3) the person does not practise what is preached

For more, check The Logical Fallacies Index (http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm) , chocked full of debate interrupting goodness. graemlins/rofl.gif BoldSoul, aren't you one of the MAIN ONES doing 1-3, as noted above? I haven't been on this site long, but I have noticed that you have:

1. Called into question people's intelligence (on the "What do Mexicans..." thread) and character (in this and the "Would you let your pregnant teen attend the prom?" thread);

2. Have noted people's circumstances (implying that Ashaki is a hypocrite because she posted both a picture of herself and a picture of the pregnant teen going to prom);

3. Have not "practiced what you preach" (stressing how freethinking and accepting you are of your kids, yet being judgemental and condescending to adults on this site).

You have some nerve! graemlins/rofl.gif

It must be hard to have to always be right, huh? :D </font>[/QUOTE]Very hard. That's why I don't do it.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by richierich:
Actually I have an 18yr. old daughter and after all that we have shown and told her the possibility still exists that she could be having sex without our knowledge. You just can't be everywhere all the time and people still make their own decisions. If my daughter got pregnant.. sure I would be a little disappointed but after that it's time to come up with a plan to start preparing for a grandchild. Life will go on and it will not be the end of the world. Tennagers have been getting pregnant since the dawn of time. When you **** that's what can happen. I'm syre peeps here have had unprotected sex at least 10 times intheir lives. The difference between our generation and the current one is sex was not something to be bold about around adults, nor did we have sex unprotected as much as these children do now. Remember we grew up with the AIDS epidemic. These kids don't care (Hell girls under 14 talk freely about giving blow jobs) and the parents aren't making it better by accepting their mistakes, not giving consequences behind countless mistakes. A teenager becoming pregnant once is a mistake, mishap, misjudgement etc., but a teen that comes in the house with more than 1 baby before they are grown enough to take care of them isn't a mistake it's wrong and they need to be dealt with.

[mhd]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Discogoddess:
One can only hope that these oh-so-deep and accepting men around here are NEVER, EVER making statements/engaging in behaviors that judge, belittle, uneccesarily sexualize or marginalize women, since they are oh-so good about checking sistagurl cards in this thread! Oh checking sistagurls, is that what they are doing? I haven't noticed, considering their attention span is only so short. The conversation with us and some of the men (NOT ALL MEN) are mostly trying to make the women wrong. Knowing damn well if they knew their daughters were having sex and with boys they do not approve of, not to mention getting pregnant, they will have a stroke graemlins/scared.gif </font>[/QUOTE]its ironic that many men here have been supportive and positive on behalf of the young lady in the picture

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Discogoddess:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Actually Ray, it was a rather deft use of the most popular fallacy of logic used on the DHP:

Attacking the Person:
* (1) the person's character is attacked
* (2) the person's circumstances are noted
* (3) the person does not practise what is preached

For more, check The Logical Fallacies Index (http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm) , chocked full of debate interrupting goodness. graemlins/rofl.gif BoldSoul, aren't you one of the MAIN ONES doing 1-3, as noted above? I haven't been on this site long, but I have noticed that you have:

1. Called into question people's intelligence (on the "What do Mexicans..." thread) and character (in this and the "Would you let your pregnant teen attend the prom?" thread);

2. Have noted people's circumstances (implying that Ashaki is a hypocrite because she posted both a picture of herself and a picture of the pregnant teen going to prom);

3. Have not "practiced what you preach" (stressing how freethinking and accepting you are of your kids, yet being judgemental and condescending to adults on this site).

You have some nerve! graemlins/rofl.gif

It must be hard to have to always be right, huh? :D </font>[/QUOTE]Very hard. That's why I don't do it. </font>[/QUOTE]Bold, You are a walking contradiction.. graemlins/rofl.gif

[Gojay]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gojay:
Besides women who carry a baby full term and turn around and kill, dump or hurt that bay should be shot!(unless of course they're mentally incapable of caring for the child). Here in the USa there are alternatives to dumpimg a baby ,It's called Adoption(or abortion)!

peace'
gojay Oh, boy, you don't want me to get started on this, because GMAN will ban me! These ****ing right to lifers with their don't get an abortion, but then the are no where around when the baby is born and only there to pass draconian laws to put these misled mothers in jail for abondoning their child, and oh, by the way, these teenagers was raised by these ****ed up parents who threaten them with damn near death if they ever get pregnant, no wonder they wanna hide the pregancy and then the baby....NO, don't get me ****ing started!!!

Yeah, Gojay, I guess with all the injustices that have been heaped on them, why not another injustice like a little shot to the brain.

AAaaaarrrrrggghhhh!!!! </font>[/QUOTE]Injustice or not, we are all(well at least most of us) taught right and wrong growing up! I grew in a household with a ****ed up parent(I could on for days about it), but it not stop me from being a person with some sense of morals and justice!. I support a womens right to have an abortion, within the time she can get one.

We have better convo's here than we do in person!

peace,(and I mean it)

gojay

[TAD]

Originally posted by mhd:
some families support pregnant teens because they realize that a child is on the way and that its too late to chastize the kid as it should be with all families. this is the proper way to deal with things & the one that brings peace, love & proper nurturing, eventually leading to a well developed child.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Discogoddess:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Actually Ray, it was a rather deft use of the most popular fallacy of logic used on the DHP:

Attacking the Person:
* (1) the person's character is attacked
* (2) the person's circumstances are noted
* (3) the person does not practise what is preached

For more, check The Logical Fallacies Index (http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm) , chocked full of debate interrupting goodness. graemlins/rofl.gif BoldSoul, aren't you one of the MAIN ONES doing 1-3, as noted above? I haven't been on this site long, but I have noticed that you have:

1. Called into question people's intelligence (on the "What do Mexicans..." thread) and character (in this and the "Would you let your pregnant teen attend the prom?" thread);

2. Have noted people's circumstances (implying that Ashaki is a hypocrite because she posted both a picture of herself and a picture of the pregnant teen going to prom);

3. Have not "practiced what you preach" (stressing how freethinking and accepting you are of your kids, yet being judgemental and condescending to adults on this site).

You have some nerve! graemlins/rofl.gif

It must be hard to have to always be right, huh? :D </font>[/QUOTE]Very hard. That's why I don't do it. </font>[/QUOTE]Bold, You are a walking contradiction.. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]I prefer a paradox - at least before one gets to know me.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by richierich:
Actually I have an 18yr. old daughter and after all that we have shown and told her the possibility still exists that she could be having sex without our knowledge. You just can't be everywhere all the time and people still make their own decisions. If my daughter got pregnant.. sure I would be a little disappointed but after that it's time to come up with a plan to start preparing for a grandchild. Life will go on and it will not be the end of the world. Tennagers have been getting pregnant since the dawn of time. When you **** that's what can happen. I'm syre peeps here have had unprotected sex at least 10 times intheir lives. She's 18 and she's not pregnant...that's the point...she's considered an adult at this point in her life...

lucky you...you should be proud

[Jamie 3:26]

While we don't know anything about this girl,let's remember one thing....We do not know a damn thing about her upbringing,if she has any more kids,if she comes from a 2 parent home and so forth.

I experienced this(teen pregnancy) in my home and it tore my family unit apart.Like I stated before,regradless of what fear you put in a child,if you let them get away with shit,the threats don't mean a damn thing.They are still gonna what they want regardless.

Everyone here did not grow up Huxstable.Let's be real.I know my ass did what I wanted to any damn way.The threats and punishment did not mean shit to me.When I got kicked out,I did worse shit.It also made me resent my moms.So,the threats don't do a damn thing..IMO.

What made me turn around was my mom's just rapped with me,instead of threats and getting busted in the chops.

Talking,instead of yelling makes a major difference.Back to ya'lls arguments...

[richierich]

I disagree about the unprotected sex thing.. you got adults right now who still do it Raw and I'm not talking about married couples. One girl told me personally that she wants to feel the dick not the rubber. People still don't care about the disease thing.. I can get a blow job before I can get a sandwich..and I'm talikng about from a grown ass woman. And you got men that think because tha girl is gorgeous that she couldn't have a disease "man she's so fine i'd **** her without a rubber" I aint makin' this shit up. Pregnancy seems not to be a high concern. Kids imitate the actions of adults. As many friends that I have had die from AIDS you would think that things would've changed but they really have not. The heat of the moment still is more powerful to a lot of people than the thought of disease and pregnancy.

[ June 12, 2003, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: richierich ]

[TAD]

maybe the girl in the picture is being punished. the only way she could attend the prom is by exposing herself for all her peers to see. maybe it's a statement from her to all her friends, a sort of warning sign to young teens.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
/QUOTE]Very hard. That's why I don't do it. [/qb]Bold, You are a walking contradiction.. graemlins/rofl.gif [/qb][/QUOTE]I prefer a paradox - at least before one gets to know me. [/QB][/QUOTE]

ok sure...
Wow Bold there might be help for you yet icon_rofl.gif

First Step is admitting it.. graemlins/rofl.gif

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
/QUOTE]Very hard. That's why I don't do it. Bold, You are a walking contradiction.. graemlins/rofl.gif [/qb]</font>[/QUOTE]I prefer a paradox - at least before one gets to know me. [/QB][/QUOTE]

ok sure...
Wow Bold there might be help for you yet icon_rofl.gif

First Step is admitting it.. graemlins/rofl.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]

Admiting what? I'm almost tempted to PM you my phone number, just so you can be relieved.

Look, this playful debate shit we do on the DHP is just that - playing around. I'm always up for serious building of thought and ideas.

Also, I don't really judge any of you beyond your comments. I hope that all of you are happy healthy folks who find your way through this life just like we all are - without a user's manual.

Okay - now back to your nearsighted hypocritical foolishness.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
/QUOTE]Very hard. That's why I don't do it. Bold, You are a walking contradiction.. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]I prefer a paradox - at least before one gets to know me. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]ok sure...
Wow Bold there might be help for you yet icon_rofl.gif

First Step is admitting it.. graemlins/rofl.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]

Admiting what? I'm almost tempted to PM you my phone number, just so you can be relieved.

Look, this playful debate shit we do on the DHP is just that - playing around. I'm always up for serious building of thought and ideas.

Also, I don't really judge any of you beyond your comments. I hope that all of you are happy healthy folks who find your way through this life just like we all are - without a user's manual.

Okay - now back to your nearsighted hypocritical foolishness. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Ok so anything you say here is not valid.. Ok I can deal with that graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Okay - now back to your egotistical http://deephousepage.com/smilies/rant.gif

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
/QUOTE]Very hard. That's why I don't do it. Bold, You are a walking contradiction.. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]I prefer a paradox - at least before one gets to know me. </font>[/QUOTE]ok sure...
Wow Bold there might be help for you yet icon_rofl.gif

First Step is admitting it.. graemlins/rofl.gif [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Admiting what? I'm almost tempted to PM you my phone number, just so you can be relieved.

Look, this playful debate shit we do on the DHP is just that - playing around. I'm always up for serious building of thought and ideas.

Also, I don't really judge any of you beyond your comments. I hope that all of you are happy healthy folks who find your way through this life just like we all are - without a user's manual.

Okay - now back to your nearsighted hypocritical foolishness. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Ok so anything you say here is not valid.. Ok I can deal with that graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Okay - now back to your egotistical http://deephousepage.com/smilies/rant.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]

We really have to deal with this attraction between us. It's all so new, and yet...so real. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/mwink.gif

[MYOR]

Originally posted by richierich:
I disagree about the unprotected sex thing.. you got adults right now who still do it Raw and I'm not talking about married couples. One girl told me personally that she wants to feel the dick not the rubber. People still don't care about the disease thing.. I can get a blow job before I can get a sandwich..and I'm talikng about from a grown ass woman. And you got men that think because tha girl is gorgeous that she couldn't have a disease "man she's so fine i'd **** her without a rubber" I aint makin' this shit up. Pregnancy seems not to be a high concern. Kids imitate the actions of adults. As many friends that I have had die from AIDS you would think that things would've changed but they really have not. The heat of the moment still is more powerful to a lot of people than the thought of disease and pregnancy. This is very true... Too many adults out there having unprotected sex.. Sad very sad..

[Ken1015]

You know how they say when you're mad you should write a letter that expresses how you feel to get it out then tear it up? It's worked wonders for me in this thread.

[Wild i]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wild i:
You know, we really need to get past the notion that it is not society's place to judge its members. It most certainly is. That is, in fact, the entire basis of society.

It is our job to set and enforce the standards of society. That does not mean we must be draconian, but that "I'm okay, you're okay," TM nonsense is for the birds. That's why we have 6 year-olds taking guns to school and parents of 6 year-olds making it possible.

The dress is inappropriate by PREVAILING SOCIETAL STANDARDS. very good point... </font>[/QUOTE]which society are we speaking of? </font>[/QUOTE]S O C I E T Y!

Come on, Mark!

[mhd]

Originally posted by Wild i:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wild i:
You know, we really need to get past the notion that it is not society's place to judge its members. It most certainly is. That is, in fact, the entire basis of society.

It is our job to set and enforce the standards of society. That does not mean we must be draconian, but that "I'm okay, you're okay," TM nonsense is for the birds. That's why we have 6 year-olds taking guns to school and parents of 6 year-olds making it possible.

The dress is inappropriate by PREVAILING SOCIETAL STANDARDS. very good point... </font>[/QUOTE]which society are we speaking of? </font>[/QUOTE]S O C I E T Y!

Come on, Mark! </font>[/QUOTE]shouting at me doesn't make your point any clearer, "prevailing societal standards" is a dangerous concept to me. 3/5s of a man used to prevail, just like having a picnic at a lynching used to prevail. imo, there is no such thing as a "prevailing societal standard". what happens when i deviate from that standard, like teaching slaves to read, or hiring a black woman as a ceo, or hiring a black woman as a national security advisor

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wild i:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wild i:
You know, we really need to get past the notion that it is not society's place to judge its members. It most certainly is. That is, in fact, the entire basis of society.

It is our job to set and enforce the standards of society. That does not mean we must be draconian, but that "I'm okay, you're okay," TM nonsense is for the birds. That's why we have 6 year-olds taking guns to school and parents of 6 year-olds making it possible.

The dress is inappropriate by PREVAILING SOCIETAL STANDARDS. very good point... </font>[/QUOTE]which society are we speaking of? </font>[/QUOTE]S O C I E T Y!

Come on, Mark! </font>[/QUOTE]shouting at me doesn't make your point any clearer, "prevailing societal standards" is a dangerous concept to me. 3/5s of a man used to prevail, just like having a picnic at a lynching used to prevail. imo, there is no such thing as a "prevailing societal standard". what happens when i deviate from that standard, like teaching slaves to read, or hiring a black woman as a ceo, or hiring a black woman as a national security advisor </font>[/QUOTE]Wait Mark! You're not supposed to think so deep. Keep it shallow - don't look for parallels! Don't see the root of the condition!

Damnit! Where did I put that Negro Parenting Handbook?!

[fred da warrior]

Isn't today's prevailing societal standards = thongs, tattos on the small of women's back, low riding jeans, overpriced Mac lipstick, etc?

[Ken1015]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Damnit! Where did I put that Negro Parenting Handbook?! Hopefully in the trash. Where it belongs.

[Ken1015]

Originally posted by fred:
Isn't today's prevailing societal standards = thongs, tattos on the small of women's back, low riding jeans, overpriced Mac lipstick, etc? Is this a problem? biggrinangel.gif

[MYOR]

Originally posted by fred:
Isn't today's prevailing societal standards = thongs, tattos on the small of women's back, low riding jeans, overpriced Mac lipstick, etc? Lets just hope girls going to there prom in an ugly dress like that becomes the norm...

Still stand by the fact the dress is UGLY....
And in 10 years she'll be saying ... What the fvck was I thinking???

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fred:
Isn't today's prevailing societal standards = thongs, tattos on the small of women's back, low riding jeans, overpriced Mac lipstick, etc? Lets just hope girls going to there prom in an ugly dress like that becomes the norm...

Still stand by the fact the dress is UGLY....
And in 10 years she'll be saying ... What the fvck was I thinking??? </font>[/QUOTE]You know, the internet is viral. This picture has to be in front of millions by now.

[Wild i]

Originally posted by mhd:
]shouting at me doesn't make your point any clearer, "prevailing societal standards" is a dangerous concept to me. 3/5s of a man used to prevail, just like having a picnic at a lynching used to prevail. imo, there is no such thing as a "prevailing societal standard". what happens when i deviate from that standard, like teaching slaves to read, or hiring a black woman as a ceo, or hiring a black woman as a national security advisor First of all, I'm not shouting. I'm ENUNCIATING!

Second, I understand your trepidation. We should tread lightly on these waters and the examples you cited are valid. However, I don't believe the abrogate society's responsibility to police itself. Just as these were once the standard, so did the standard change, but over time rather than by eclait. Societal standards are what determines what you watch on TV, listen to on the radio, read in the newspapers. Even the communications act of 1934 cites prevailing mores as the standard for censorship. Yes, it is vague, but deliberately so. Flexibility is the key.

Personally, as a member of this society, I am not ready to accept this type of outfit worn by a 17-18 year old girl. If more people agree with me than not, there will be a great public outcry and action will ensue. If not, there will be a great knashing of teeth as cold mores fall way. It's a cycle that has been repeated throughout history.

Be not afraid, my friend. It's call progress...

[Fletch]

I wonder how that pic got on the internet, anyway? She put it out? Or did someone sneak it on? That's the type of pic that stays in the family's "secret album". Peace.

[mhd]

Originally posted by fred:
Isn't today's prevailing societal standards = thongs, tattos on the small of women's back, low riding jeans, overpriced Mac lipstick, etc? that's why i asked which society

[mhd]

Originally posted by Wild i:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
]shouting at me doesn't make your point any clearer, "prevailing societal standards" is a dangerous concept to me. 3/5s of a man used to prevail, just like having a picnic at a lynching used to prevail. imo, there is no such thing as a "prevailing societal standard". what happens when i deviate from that standard, like teaching slaves to read, or hiring a black woman as a ceo, or hiring a black woman as a national security advisor First of all, I'm not shouting. I'm ENUNCIATING!

Second, I understand your trepidation. We should tread lightly on these waters and the examples you cited are valid. However, I don't believe the abrogate society's responsibility to police itself. Just as these were once the standard, so did the standard change, but over time rather than by eclait. Societal standards are what determines what you watch on TV, listen to on the radio, read in the newspapers. Even the communications act of 1934 cites prevailing mores as the standard for censorship. Yes, it is vague, but deliberately so. Flexibility is the key.

Personally, as a member of this society, I am not ready to accept this type of outfit worn by a 17-18 year old girl. If more people agree with me than not, there will be a great public outcry and action will ensue. If not, there will be a great knashing of teeth as cold mores fall way. It's a cycle that has been repeated throughout history.

Be not afraid, my friend. It's call progress... </font>[/QUOTE]...and a child shall lead them...

[KragShot]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
I'm not just going against the norm for the hell of it! The dress may not be to my taste, but it's not my business either to judge her.

As far as the comment about "there is nothing attractive about a teenager being pregnant", here's something to think about, many in this forum have mom and grandmom who were pregnant at that age.....

I just have a real problem with the nasty stigmatization of teen pregnancy and the problems that it leads to.

Eh, maybe I'm not from this planet. Lil' Ray..."stigmatization of teen pregnancy!"

How about the horrible persecution of drug abuse....

Dude, teen pregnacy is wrong.

Just because the equipment is working doesn't mean that you have to use it ASAP.

Yes, every car has a jack in it...still, you don't see people going outside and lifting their car up on a whim.

Babies should not be having babies. Regardless of whatever the situation was with your parents or grandparents, it has always been a social faux pas when a female was impregnated before she was deemed ready by the society in question.

This is a picture of a pregnant teenager going to the prom. We've came a long way since the old days, when she wouldn't have even been allowed in the school, not to mention the prom.

Nobody is condemming the girl because she is pregnant. They are coming down on her (and her parent(s)) because she is wearing a very tastless dress.

My wife and I regularly laugh at a picture of a girl who wore an extremely tight, low-cut, high-slitted outfit at her prom.

People who wear slutty and/or tasteless clothing at a prom get laughed at.

Bold Soul, I respect your opinion on the outfit and had anyone else said what you said, I would have thought they were being sarcastic.

Lil' Ray, I think that I sort of see your point here, but you have to at least acknowledge the outrageousness of the outfit and the condition in which it is being worn.

That is pretty much what the focus of this discussion is about.

Finally, when you get a daughter (and if you have one already, then when she comes of age) then, I'd like to see if you sing that tune then, pal.

KragShot
(who has no kids, but has two hot-in-the-ass-nieces who need to have the water hose sprayed on them occasionally...)

[jcapeverde]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by larry rauson:
Is that a BONG on the table in the corner?

Larry "El KaBong" Rauson Actually it is very sad, and disturbing...I want to break the neck of the seamstress...and the permenantly swole the eyes of the momma...

sick!!

What's a bong? </font>[/QUOTE]What's a Bong?! Check out an old Cheech and Chong movie; it's their #1 prop!

[Ron la Rock]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:



But to wear this to your prom come on...
Besides the dress is U G L Y :( How do we know she wasn't making a statement....dress maybe ugly to you, but maybe she liked it.

This is why I don't go to those old folks church....too much judging of you and what you are wearing.....same reason I don't go to hiphop clubs and why I love the house scene. </font>but these are house people with the most judgmental shit I've been reading here 4 months
also this fake church moral majority sh*t has totally taken over the very socalled "scene" that should embrace this sort of expression
I'm still trying 2 figure what clubs these socalled tight asses use 2 or go to?? graemlins/conf44.gif

yeah like you ray i'm almost keeping it real with these foolish post sheesh graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[Ron la Rock]

Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
Here ya go..... http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/p6da00bec5a50db72ed3910223d86363c/fbf4c9a4.jpg UH What's the problem folks?? graemlins/stupid.gif
yeah she do look like spikes sister though

[Wild i]

What if that were not a baby, but just fat she was sportin' so blazenly? Would people run to her defense then? I remember how so many laughed at the photo of the really large sister in the briefest of negligees.

Ray, I think you may be a little off the mark going for the "shame on the pregnant teen" angle. By off the mark I mean, I know that's what caught your attention, but I don't think that was the direction of the thread.

Just opinions....

BTW once again I must thank you all for an interesting discussion. I didn't read everything but everything I did read was well withing discussion guidelines.

[Ken1015]

Originally posted by Ron paizley:
but these are house people with the most judgmental shit I've been reading here 4 months
also this fake church moral majority sh*t has totally taken over the very socalled "scene" that should embrace this sort of expression
I'm still trying 2 figure what clubs these socalled tight asses use 2 or go to?? graemlins/conf44.gif

yeah like you ray i'm almost keeping it real with these foolish post sheesh graemlins/jpshakehead.gif I only listen to gospel house. biggrinangel.gif

[TEK]

Sorry am I missing the point - we are over intellectuallising the point. This is a teenage girl who wants to go to the prom in a couple of months time she'll be knee deep in dipers [nappies to me] You may thing the dress is ugly, you may think its not...it doesn't matter either way the point is that she goes to the prom and feels like a teenager before the responsibility of parenthood wallops her round the head. Yes she may look back in 10 yrs and go oh my what was I wearing - give her the opportunity to feel like a kid make fashion mistakes and laugh about them later. Shes got a life changing event coming in the next few months - let her be a child for a few hours more.

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by TEK:
Sorry am I missing the point - we are over intellectuallising the point. This is a teenage girl who wants to go to the prom in a couple of months time she'll be knee deep in dipers [nappies to me] You may thing the dress is ugly, you may think its not...it doesn't matter either way the point is that she goes to the prom and feels like a teenager before the responsibility of parenthood wallops her round the head. Yes she may look back in 10 yrs and go oh my what was I wearing - give her the opportunity to feel like a kid make fashion mistakes and laugh about them later. Shes got a life changing event coming in the next few months - let her be a child for a few hours more. This sums it up for me....totally agree with this.

[Wild i]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TEK:
Sorry am I missing the point - we are over intellectuallising the point. This is a teenage girl who wants to go to the prom in a couple of months time she'll be knee deep in dipers [nappies to me] You may thing the dress is ugly, you may think its not...it doesn't matter either way the point is that she goes to the prom and feels like a teenager before the responsibility of parenthood wallops her round the head. Yes she may look back in 10 yrs and go oh my what was I wearing - give her the opportunity to feel like a kid make fashion mistakes and laugh about them later. Shes got a life changing event coming in the next few months - let her be a child for a few hours more. This sums it up for me....totally agree with this. </font>[/QUOTE]Not I.

Given today's moral climate, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with her going to the prom 7+ months pregnant -- for whatever reason. And it's not that the dress is just plain ugly, although it is. The dress is inappropriate for a 17 year old going to her prom. It is not a proper high school prom dress for anyone.

No one has yet responded to my query of "What if it was just fat rather than a baby poking out?"

Here's another way to look at it; What if, instead of a student, she was a teacher, say 24, married, preggers, wearing that dress to chapperone the prom? Would you feel it was appropriate then?

Please answer these questions honestly. I'd really like to know how you all would view it from a different perspective.

[the 18th letter]

There are a lot of guys wearing basketball jersey's and "Err Force I's" to the prom this season. I don't know if they are father's or not, but the attire is definitly inappropriate.

[Martin Red]

http://www.kevinmoloney.com/port/news/dColum.jpg

Another shocking picture from US youth, sorry, carry on talking about that dress it is really important, I want to understand the dress.

[TEK]

Originally posted by Wild i:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TEK:
Sorry am I missing the point - we are over intellectuallising the point. This is a teenage girl who wants to go to the prom in a couple of months time she'll be knee deep in dipers [nappies to me] You may thing the dress is ugly, you may think its not...it doesn't matter either way the point is that she goes to the prom and feels like a teenager before the responsibility of parenthood wallops her round the head. Yes she may look back in 10 yrs and go oh my what was I wearing - give her the opportunity to feel like a kid make fashion mistakes and laugh about them later. Shes got a life changing event coming in the next few months - let her be a child for a few hours more. This sums it up for me....totally agree with this. </font>[/QUOTE]Not I.

Given today's moral climate, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with her going to the prom 7+ months pregnant -- for whatever reason. And it's not that the dress is just plain ugly, although it is. The dress is inappropriate for a 17 year old going to her prom. It is not a proper high school prom dress for anyone.

No one has yet responded to my query of "What if it was just fat rather than a baby poking out?"

Here's another way to look at it; What if, instead of a student, she was a teacher, say 24, married, preggers, wearing that dress to chapperone the prom? Would you feel it was appropriate then?

Please answer these questions honestly. I'd really like to know how you all would view it from a different perspective. </font>[/QUOTE]What do you suggest she wears, maybe a nice hessian sack. Personally I think it doesn't matter who wears what Its about how you feel and how the clothes make you feel. This dress isn't inappropriate IMO, its about a little girl trying to feel as normal as she can whilst being 7 months pregnant - its not something to be ashamed
of and this is not something that Is reflected in the cut of the dress - pregnacy is a big thing especially for one so young - i'm sure its been hard for her to come to terms that she is going to have a whole lot of responsibility sooner than she probably thought - would you prefer that she covered up and pretended that it wasn't there. This is a young lady who realises that the situation is happening and rather than denying that the situation IS happening she is adapting her life [and her clothes]around the baby already. I think this girl will make a very responsible mother but before we slip in to the adult notion of examining and analysing every minute detail lets remember what its like to be a kid going to a prom - you want to feel as special as possible - don't deny her that feeling if this dress is what makes her feel that way..just because some people on a message board don't like it - this passes our time at work that is her life its her opinion that counts - not ours

[ June 13, 2003, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: TEK ]

[Wild i]

Originally posted by TEK:
What do you suggest she wears, maybe a nice hessian sack. Personally I think it doesn't matter who wears what Its about how you feel and how the clothes make you feel. This dress isn't inappropriate IMO, its about a little girl trying to feel as normal as she can whilst being 7 months pregnant - its not something to be ashamed
of and this is not something that Is reflected in the cut of the dress - pregnacy is a big thing especially for one so young - i'm sure its been hard for her to come to terms that she is going to have a whole lot of responsibility sooner than she probably thought - would you prefer that she covered up and pretended that it wasn't there. This is a young lady who realises that the situation is happening and rather than denying that the situation IS happening she is adapting her life [and her clothes]around the baby already. I think this girl will make a very responsible mother but before we slip in to the adult notion of examining and analysing every minute detail lets remember what its like to be a kid going to a prom - you want to feel as special as possible - don't deny her that feeling if this dress is what makes her feel that way..just because some people on a message board don't like it - this passes our time at work that is her life its her opinion that counts - not ours [/QB][/QUOTE]

This is not about her being pregnant. It's about her being exposed. I think you may be reading way too much into her actions (and perhaps giving her too much credit as well). It's tacky and tasteless. I seriously doubt (although, admittedly, I have no way of know for sure) that this is a political or social statement.

It's true that in this country, one has the right to be as tacky as one so desires. That don't make it right. It's like I tell my boys all the time: Just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean you should do a thing.

[TEK]

Originally posted by Wild i:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TEK:
What do you suggest she wears, maybe a nice hessian sack. Personally I think it doesn't matter who wears what Its about how you feel and how the clothes make you feel. This dress isn't inappropriate IMO, its about a little girl trying to feel as normal as she can whilst being 7 months pregnant - its not something to be ashamed
of and this is not something that Is reflected in the cut of the dress - pregnacy is a big thing especially for one so young - i'm sure its been hard for her to come to terms that she is going to have a whole lot of responsibility sooner than she probably thought - would you prefer that she covered up and pretended that it wasn't there. This is a young lady who realises that the situation is happening and rather than denying that the situation IS happening she is adapting her life [and her clothes]around the baby already. I think this girl will make a very responsible mother but before we slip in to the adult notion of examining and analysing every minute detail lets remember what its like to be a kid going to a prom - you want to feel as special as possible - don't deny her that feeling if this dress is what makes her feel that way..just because some people on a message board don't like it - this passes our time at work that is her life its her opinion that counts - not ours


Originally posted by Wild i:

This is not about her being pregnant. It's about her being exposed. I think you may be reading way too much into her actions (and perhaps giving her too much credit as well). It's tacky and tasteless. I seriously doubt (although, admittedly, I have no way of know for sure) that this is a political or social statement.

It's true that in this country, one has the right to be as tacky as one so desires. That don't make it right. It's like I tell my boys all the time: Just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean you should do a thing. </font>i don't think i'm portraying this is political or giving her undue credit [although it can be argued that you are giving her a hard time unduely]

At the end of the day its about a young girl being happy when she goes to her prom - and nothing you or I say should have any influence. At the end of the day opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one.

I dont' have a problem with your viewpoint but whats important is that that girl is happy when she goes to that prom.

Isn't your childrens happiness the most important thing to you?

I'm going home now - have a great happy weekend

[ June 13, 2003, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: TEK ]

[MYOR]

Originally posted by TEK:
At the end of the day its about a young girl being happy when she goes to her prom - and nothing you or I say should have any influence. At the end of the day opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one.

I dont' have a problem with your viewpoint but whats important is that that girl is happy when she goes to that prom.

Isn't your childrens happiness the most important thing to you?

I'm going home now - have a great happy weekend [/QB]Who is talking about her happiness or the fact that she is pregnant..

People get a grip here...

All I'm saying is if you were walking down the street and saw her walking by with this dress what would be the first thing that popped in your head???

Answer that truthfully... thats all...

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by MYOR:
[QUOTE]
All I'm saying is if you were walking down the street and saw her walking by with this dress what would be the first thing that popped in your head???

Answer that truthfully... thats all... More power to her!!

[Wild i]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TEK:
At the end of the day its about a young girl being happy when she goes to her prom - and nothing you or I say should have any influence. At the end of the day opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one.

I dont' have a problem with your viewpoint but whats important is that that girl is happy when she goes to that prom.

Isn't your childrens happiness the most important thing to you?

I'm going home now - have a great happy weekend Who is talking about her happiness or the fact that she is pregnant..

People get a grip here...

All I'm saying is if you were walking down the street and saw her walking by with this dress what would be the first thing that popped in your head???

Answer that truthfully... thats all... [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Exactly!

Tek, get plenty of sleep so that you'll be in shape to resume the debate later! ;)

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Wild i:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TEK:
Sorry am I missing the point - we are over intellectuallising the point. This is a teenage girl who wants to go to the prom in a couple of months time she'll be knee deep in dipers [nappies to me] You may thing the dress is ugly, you may think its not...it doesn't matter either way the point is that she goes to the prom and feels like a teenager before the responsibility of parenthood wallops her round the head. Yes she may look back in 10 yrs and go oh my what was I wearing - give her the opportunity to feel like a kid make fashion mistakes and laugh about them later. Shes got a life changing event coming in the next few months - let her be a child for a few hours more. This sums it up for me....totally agree with this. </font>[/QUOTE]Not I.

Given today's moral climate, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with her going to the prom 7+ months pregnant -- for whatever reason. And it's not that the dress is just plain ugly, although it is. The dress is inappropriate for a 17 year old going to her prom. It is not a proper high school prom dress for anyone.

No one has yet responded to my query of "What if it was just fat rather than a baby poking out?"

Here's another way to look at it; What if, instead of a student, she was a teacher, say 24, married, preggers, wearing that dress to chapperone the prom? Would you feel it was appropriate then?

Please answer these questions honestly. I'd really like to know how you all would view it from a different perspective. </font>[/QUOTE]If a fat person wore a dress like that, alot of these men would be posting in disgust, talking about how horrible she looks and everything.

If a teacher wore that same dress, it still would be ugly. Anyone wearing that dress anywhere isn't appropriate because it just damn ugly :eek: My opinion was based on her being pregnant going to prom, not the dress. I've seen more crazier prom dresses on pregnant girls than that, I did live on the South Side of Chicago.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Okay, I think I would be at the DHP picnic this Saturday with a halter top on exposing my pregnant stomach and maternity jeans. I wonder what kind of responses I'd get graemlins/rofl.gif

Hell, people think it's a beautiful thing and this is a time of maternal glow & beauty............. graemlins/stupid.gif

[Monny JcIntosh]

I wore a big itchy woollen skirt to my equivalent of a prom.

[ June 13, 2003, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Jonny McIntosh ]

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by Jonny McIntosh:
I wore a big itchy woolen skirt to my equivalent of a prom. Have you seen Bowling for Columbine where the kid got in big trouble in USA as he had the knife thingy as part of his trad Scot attire.

Talking of bowling for Columbine
another "controversial picture",
http://www.msnbc.com/news/1541190.jpg again.... !


sorry for going off topic once again
back to the important stuff
I wonder what material that prom dress is..

[ June 13, 2003, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

[Wild i]

Originally posted by Martin Red:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jonny McIntosh:
I wore a big itchy woolen skirt to my equivalent of a prom. Have you seen Bowling for Columbine where the kid got in big trouble in USA as he has the knife thingy.

Talking of bowling for Columbine
another "controversial picture",
http://www.msnbc.com/news/1541190.jpg again.... !


sorry for going off topic once again
back to the important stuff
I wonder what material that prom dress is.. </font>[/QUOTE]Martin, I understand why this thread is annoying you so, but I wonder if you see the relationship between inappropriate clothing and mass murder? I'm not joking. It's about erosion of societal values. It seems silly to think that this one girl in this one ugly dress could lead to 12 year olds toting uzis, but you see it's about what society is and is not willing to accept. You heard, I'm sure, the old expression, "Give them and inch, they'll take an arne." Well that's how this dress informs furter antisocial behaviors. When we start saying "Oh, she's just expressing herself," to everything, where, exactly, do we draw the line?

Did you ever see the mplay of movie "The Music Man"? There's a brilliant skit in it, the "Trouble in River City" skit, where the con artist starts telling people that because a pool hall is opening up, the next thing you know crime is through the roof and property values are down. It seems ridiculous and it's down quite tongue-in-cheek but it ain't far off the documented truth. Ever hear of the 'broken window syndrome"?

[ June 13, 2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Wild i ]

[mhd]

Originally posted by Wild i:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Martin Red:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jonny McIntosh:
I wore a big itchy woolen skirt to my equivalent of a prom. Have you seen Bowling for Columbine where the kid got in big trouble in USA as he has the knife thingy.

Talking of bowling for Columbine
another "controversial picture",
http://www.msnbc.com/news/1541190.jpg again.... !


sorry for going off topic once again
back to the important stuff
I wonder what material that prom dress is.. </font>[/QUOTE]Martin, I understand why this thread is annoying you so, but I wonder if you see the relationship between inappropriate clothing and mass murder? I'm not joking. It's about erosion of societal values. It seems silly to think that this one girl in this one ugly dress could lead to 12 year olds toting uzis, but you see it's about what society is and is not willing to accept. You heard, I'm sure, the old expression, "Give them and inch, they'll take an arne." Well that's how this dress informs furter antisocial behaviors. When we start saying "Oh, she's just expressing herself," to everything, where, exactly, do we draw the line?

Did you ever see the mplay of movie "The Music Man"? There's a brilliant skit in it, the "Trouble in River City" skit, where the con artist starts telling people that because a pool hall is opening up, the next thing you know crime is through the roof and property values are down. It seems ridiculous and it's down quite tongue-in-cheek but it ain't far off the documented truth. Ever hear of the 'broken window syndrome"? </font>[/QUOTE]do you remember the point of that piece in the music man, that people will make ridiculous connections in the name of maintaining ideology. but following your logic since the fashion industry is dominated by gays lets just get rid of gays and that will solve our problem with fashion that violates "societal standards"

[Martin Red]

I see your point Wild 1, but clothing doesn't kill people.

mhd, a little of topic but since you mentioned gay designers. I watched a documentary about the fashion industry it basically blamed gay designers for the skinny gaunt look. It basically said that designers choose models with boyish looks and stick figures as this was closer to a young boys shape (no tits or ass) than to a true womanly shape.

please don't shoot the messenger

[Moksha]

Originally posted by Wild i:
It's about erosion of societal values. Whose values? There are a lot of people who use this same line of reasoning to oppress women/minorities/homosexuals. This line of reasoning is also used to bomb abortion clinics, ignore church and state separation, etc.

This girl's values might be very different than yours or mine, but that doesn't make them wrong or inferior. There are many places in the world where such dress would be illegal. There are others where such dress would be an overabundance of cloth. America is supposed to be a place where people with different values can coexist.

Most important social value=personal freedoms (as long as they don't oppress others).

[RX]

y'all my sistas and i love y'all, but y'all REALLY need to get off of this high and mighty bullshyt...

not to support any of the two, but what the fukk is the difference between going to the prom pregnant and getting pregnant the night of the prom?

also, y'all ain't never had a fukkin' condom break and/or roll up on y'all before? y'all never made mistakes? y'all so sure that YOUR daughters and sons aren't out there procreating as you type? like fred said, y'all know absolutely nothing about this woman and the only thing y'all can come up with is dissing her for being pregnant?

not knowing about her situation, i can only say that her grill should have been smiling more, but the dress is WAY beautiful - not unlike the shyt you see in "baby talk" or "parenting" magazines...

just for the sake of a credential shout: i am the youngest of 6 girls - no brothers...i have 16 neices and nephews and only 4 are boys and i have 3 daughters...like bold soul, i have "lived" with my moms tossing my sisters out because they got pregnant...i have basically seen it all with regards to pregnancy - i CHOSE to procreate within the realms of marriage, but should i demean another if they choose not to? sistas, why are y'all so HARD on other sistas? i SWEAR, WE are our own worst enemies..."why did her MAMA let her go out like that?" y'all sound sick...

i hope God has more mercy on y'all's pristine souls than y'all have on a woman you don't even know... graemlins/jpshakehead.gif graemlins/stupid.gif

[the 18th letter]

A scene from Ali - feat. Will Smith

Ali: " Why you shamin yourself?!?"

Bundini: " Ain't nobody shame, ain't nobody shame! When we out here we be, and we think we free, but free is real than a mutha****er!" "Oh yeah, I sold your belt."

[Ken1015]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
y'all my sistas and i love y'all, but y'all REALLY need to get off of this high and mighty bullshyt...

not to support any of the two, but what the fukk is the difference between going to the prom pregnant and getting pregnant the night of the prom?

also, y'all ain't never had a fukkin' condom break and/or roll up on y'all before? y'all never made mistakes? y'all so sure that YOUR daughters and sons aren't out there procreating as you type? like fred said, y'all know absolutely nothing about this woman and the only thing y'all can come up with is dissing her for being pregnant?

not knowing about her situation, i can only say that her grill should have been smiling more, but the dress is WAY beautiful - not unlike the shyt you see in "baby talk" or "parenting" magazines...

just for the sake of a credential shout: i am the youngest of 6 girls - no brothers...i have 16 neices and nephews and only 4 are boys and i have 3 daughters...like bold soul, i have "lived" with my moms tossing my sisters out because they got pregnant...i have basically seen it all with regards to pregnancy - i CHOSE to procreate within the realms of marriage, but should i demean another if they choose not to? sistas, why are y'all so HARD on other sistas? i SWEAR, WE are our own worst enemies..."why did her MAMA let her go out like that?" y'all sound sick...

i hope God has more mercy on y'all's pristine souls than y'all have on a woman you don't even know... graemlins/jpshakehead.gif graemlins/stupid.gif hail.gif Perfect words to end this convo.