England ; America ... are we as close as we think?

[Insert pseudonym here]

Last night I saw a documentary on the Nottinghill Riots. It was indeed horrific. Very similar to the tensions that were prevalent during the Black Civil Rights era in America.

Then, I was left to ponder about the English society and the implications of not having a true perspective on race relations ---

After I pulled myself away from the "racial overtones" of the documentary. I began to examine general English culture, irregardless of race. Mentally, I tried to summarize the English culture---

One of elitism.
One of insincerity.
One of brutual conquest.
One of denial.

So, I'm asking this audience.

Are we as Americans more "authentic" in our everyday relations than the English? As I start to examine the English culture, I don't find too much difference between the English and Americans --- except for "authenticity" in regards to one's feelings and how they express themselves. Is American culture nothing but a younger hybrid of the classism "facet" of English culture?

By the end of my mental exploration on the subject matter, I had a full frontal lobe overload.

I'm interested to hear a perspective from both sides of the water.

What's your take on British culture?
What's your take on American culture?
...And are we that similar to each other? Or has this whole "allies" masquerade been a farce to cover for the global fiscal implications regarding the Iraqi oil issue?

[Mah'chew]

I'm lurking with interest on this one :D

Great thread BTW graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[ July 02, 2003, 06:11 AM: Message edited by: Mathius ]

[Insert pseudonym here]

Originally posted by Mathius:
I'm lurking with interest on this one :D

Great thread BTW graemlins/thumbsup.gif Since I've been here in the UK, a lot of British people have asked me for a true perspective of my time here and asked me analytical questions regarding the difference in cultures. I've tried to answer to the best of my ability; but in all honesty I never truly gave it a deep and cleansing review.

So, now in my spare time as I meet more people, and start to truly settle in to a different culture... there are situations, people and instances that have moved me to start my meticulous examination of the culture that I have infiltrated.

Often times we as Americans are thought to be "numb-skulls" and invaders into cultures that we know nothing about. At least for myself I want to learn more about British culture then make an educated opinion that's faired by facts and experience, not silly stereotypes and hypothesis.

[martin]

Originally posted by NOT YOUR AVG. FAIR WEATHER FRIEND:
Often times we as Americans are thought to be "numb-skulls" and invaders into cultures that we know nothing about. At least for myself I want to learn more about British culture then make an educated opinion that's faired by facts and experience, not silly stereotypes and hypothesis. This is appreciated. So many times I have had customers say to me (when I worked in a busy tourist/hotel district), "Well it's not like this in the US". To which I would normally point out that they weren't in the US.


Originally posted by DJ Efabulous:
I tried to summarize the English culture---

One of elitism.
One of insincerity.
One of brutual conquest.
One of denial.I'd be interested to hear how you reached these conclusions, and expound on these implicit comments.

[Mah'chew]

I'd be interested in your thoughts on class?

Do you perceive it to be the same in the US?

*lurk rewind*

[ngeso]

Originally posted by DJ Efabulous:
Mentally, I tried to summarize the English culture---

One of elitism.
One of insincerity.
One of brutual conquest.
One of denial.

[/QB]not that i'm siding with the 'archenemy' biggrinangel.gif , but what benchmarks are employing to reach this conclusion? this is going to be interesting...

[ngeso]

you could be right about the denial; the english are squarely in denial of being European graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[ July 02, 2003, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: ngeso ]

[Insert pseudonym here]

Originally posted by martin s:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by NOT YOUR AVG. FAIR WEATHER FRIEND:
Often times we as Americans are thought to be "numb-skulls" and invaders into cultures that we know nothing about. At least for myself I want to learn more about British culture then make an educated opinion that's faired by facts and experience, not silly stereotypes and hypothesis. This is appreciated. So many times I have had customers say to me (when I worked in a busy tourist/hotel district), "Well it's not like this in the US". To which I would normally point out that they weren't in the US.


Originally posted by DJ Efabulous:
I tried to summarize the English culture---

One of elitism.
One of insincerity.
One of brutual conquest.
One of denial.I'd be interested to hear how you reached these conclusions, and expound on these implicit comments. </font>[/QUOTE]To be honest its rubbish without fact... and that's what I intend to investigate the facts about England and the lack of real diversity that I sense in this country.

Right now, I'm an outsider --- and before I truly look in, I want to be informed about what I'm looking at.

So, pardon my "flip-flop or rather flim-flam"... but the more knowledge I gain about the subject matter indeed, then the more substantive prose I can really contribute to the conversation. That's why I'm looking to gather perspective from others.

[Digiman]

Originally posted by DJ Efabulous:


One of elitism.
One of insincerity.
One of brutual conquest.
One of denial.

A certain section of British society is elitist, I think that is true. Older people especially still seem to think of the UK as a great power. Younger people here have no such illusions

I don't think that Brits are insincere, I'd be interested to hear why you think that. We do have a history of brutal conquest, but then doesn't almost every country?

If Brits are in denial of anything its Europe and the fact that we are no longer the player we once were. We need to "downsize" and stop following the Americans. If nothing else, we can't bloody afford to!

[martin]

Originally posted by NOT YOUR AVG. FAIR WEATHER FRIEND:
I intend to investigate the facts about England and the lack of real diversity that I sense in this country.

Right now, I'm an outsider If you think England lacks diversity, and this is not meant to give offense, then are you are definitely an outsider. Stop worrying about looking at the culture and analyzing it, and live it. From my experience that is the only way to truly discover another nation's culture. Through work and play and mixing with our truly diverse poeple you'll get an insight.

[martin]

Originally posted by DJ Efabulous:


One of elitism.
One of insincerity.
One of brutual conquest.
One of denial.

It looks like you're starting with certain assumptions. While we do have a history of brutal conquest, but it is no longer part of our culture.

[Insert pseudonym here]

Originally posted by Mathius:
I'd be interested in your thoughts on class?

Do you perceive it to be the same in the US?

*lurk rewind* If only I had a friend that was a sociology major, to help me on this one? :rolleyes:

In my thoughts (a nice way to say my opinion - lol!) I see the basis and foundation of the class structure of the United States to mirror the British in a large number of aspects. However, because classism originally stemed from the royal hierarchy there are some variations. Needless to say they are both based on fiscal power. I think the United States differs because the educational system is a key to climbing up the class ladder. Whereas, here in Britain it seems to me that regardless of education there are institutional traditions in place to keep one in their original class unless their education growth is directly proportionate to their future/ current fiscal growth.

Being a sharecropper's grand-daughter I can confidently attest to the flexibility that my family has had in regards to class. Our family has move through class level with the aid of education. Education is indeed the key.

I shutter to think what my life would be like if my family was indeed immigrants of Britain, I think a higher education would give me more exposure to opportunities that would help me transcend class but it seems to me in Britain that having the exposure to a good higher educational experience is institutionally restricted for certain cultures/ ethnicities.

Basically, we in America take advantage of the opportunities presented by free education... here in Britain for those who want to excel... some of the opportunities to good education are not given.

Sorry to be so verbose, but the thoughts and examination of the various facets of British life tend to swarm erratically in my brain.

[Digiman]

Hey, DJ Efab - just looking at your signature there. Isn't there 12 musical notes? smile.gif

[Mah'chew]

Originally posted by Albert Square:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ Efabulous:


One of elitism.
One of insincerity.
One of brutual conquest.
One of denial.

A certain section of British society is elitist, I think that is true. Older people especially still seem to think of the UK as a great power. Younger people here have no such illusions

I don't think that Brits are insincere, I'd be interested to hear why you think that. We do have a history of brutal conquest, but then doesn't almost every country?

If Brits are in denial of anything its Europe and the fact that we are no longer the player we once were. We need to "downsize" and stop following the Americans. If nothing else, we can't bloody afford to! </font>[/QUOTE]But linked to class, there's still young people who will view England as superior, the ones that fagged for William at Eton for example.

And there's older people, my parents for example, who see it as a disfunctional mess and tecnically a third-world country...(always citing travelling by train as an example - it's the worst and most unsafe rail system in the world, no question about it..)

[ July 02, 2003, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Mathius ]

[Mah'chew]

Originally posted by martin s:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by NOT YOUR AVG. FAIR WEATHER FRIEND:
I intend to investigate the facts about England and the lack of real diversity that I sense in this country.

Right now, I'm an outsider If you think England lacks diversity, and this is not meant to give offense, then are you are definitely an outsider. Stop worrying about looking at the culture and analyzing it, and live it. From my experience that is the only way to truly discover another nation's culture. Through work and play and mixing with our truly diverse poeple you'll get an insight. </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe, I'm being romantic here, but I think that England is extremely diverse as well, much like anywhere in Europe, we've had centuries of mixing and migration..

Does everyone get on? (that's a whole new kettle of sashimi)

[Insert pseudonym here]

Originally posted by Albert Square:
Hey, DJ Efab - just looking at your signature there. Isn't there 12 musical notes? smile.gif That quote is taken from the translation of "THE ART OF WAR"... at that time, in their culture there was no more than 5 musical notes. If you look deeper into the quote its not really about musical notes, it's about something more deeper. It could be considered a parable, in laymen's term.

Allow me to give you the link to "THE ART OF WAR". Also, it's a very good read. However, in order to fully understand it, you will need to read it 3 times. They sell the unabridge version and the short version in Barnes & Nobles.

Here are some general links:
http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html
http://www.kimsoft.com/polwar.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4884/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195014766/103-1168176-8758239?vi=glance
http://zhongwen.com/bingfa.htm

[Mah'chew]

Make sure Nev and Martin take you to Notting Hill Carnival. It's very much England*London* with it's guard down for a whole weekend. You should see some diversity and unity displayed there...

Are you and the boys not drinking Pimms on the lawn while listening to Wimbledon on the wireless? :D

[martin]

Originally posted by NOT YOUR AVG. FAIR WEATHER FRIEND:
here in Britain it seems to me that regardless of education there are institutional traditions in place to keep one in their original class unless their education growth is directly proportionate to their future/ current fiscal growth.What do you base this on?


Originally posted by NOT YOUR AVG. FAIR WEATHER FRIEND:
it seems to me in Britain that having the exposure to a good higher educational experience is institutionally restricted for certain cultures/ ethnicities.

Basically, we in America take advantage of the opportunities presented by free education... here in Britain for those who want to excel... some of the opportunities to good education are not given.
I'm fascinated to find out what you base these ASSUMPTIONS on.

While you're at it maybe you can offer some definitions of the class divisions in this country. I've asked UK DHPers to do this before and none could. (I read a lot of life stories and family histories but nobody, including those who are keen to jump on "the class issue", was able to offer anything close to a definition.) I'm still confused as to what class I am, maybe you can help me out with this.

[martin]

Originally posted by Mathius:
Maybe, I'm being romantic here, but I think that England is extremely diverse as well, much like anywhere in EuropeI'd say THE most diverse country in Europe - but maybe I'm being romantic. :D
I love this country, but that said, I'm looking to move away from it.

[Mah'chew]

Things I miss about England:

o Radio Four - archaic, informative, shipping forecast.
o English Comedy - unrivaled & without equal (elitist moi?).
o Beer Gardens - boosy sundays, talking crap with mates.
o English Parks - like beer gardens, with tunes and big reefers.
o Blatent Sarcasm - ripping the hell out people.
o Irony - everywhere
o Readers Wives - there so real!
o Chips in Gravy & Curries - ambrosia by another name!

Things I don't miss:

o Trains - shite.
o The streets after the pubs through out - violent.
o Tony Blair - wanker!
o Royal Family - should have gone in the cellar with their Russian cousins!
o Middle class stiffness and mediocrity
o So Solid Crew - wank!
o Zoe Ball - we waved flags the day she moved out of Brixton.
o Jordan - page 3 stunna
o Anything to do with the DHSS.
o Big Brother - double wank!

[Mah'chew]

Originally posted by martin s:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mathius:
Maybe, I'm being romantic here, but I think that England is extremely diverse as well, much like anywhere in EuropeI'd say THE most diverse country in Europe - but maybe I'm being romantic. :D
I love this country, but that said, I'm looking to move away from it. </font>[/QUOTE]Best thing I did. Although it turns you into a spectator of sorts. However, the upside of it is England is seen as kind of a cool place by people I've met while away, makes you a kind of a funky immigrant - not sure if this is true in Baghdad? :D

[martin]

Originally posted by Mathius:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martin s:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mathius:
Maybe, I'm being romantic here, but I think that England is extremely diverse as well, much like anywhere in EuropeI'd say THE most diverse country in Europe - but maybe I'm being romantic. :D
I love this country, but that said, I'm looking to move away from it. </font>[/QUOTE]Best thing I did. Although it turns you into a spectator of sorts. However, the upside of it is England is seen as kind of a cool place by people I've met while away, makes you a kind of a funky immigrant - not sure if this is true in Baghdad? :D </font>[/QUOTE]I lived in Spain before, and having just come back from a week there for the first time in a few years, I am now totally convinced that I want to move back. It's not so much that I don't like it here, but that I prefer it there.

[TAC]

Originally posted by martin s:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by NOT YOUR AVG. FAIR WEATHER FRIEND:
here in Britain it seems to me that regardless of education there are institutional traditions in place to keep one in their original class unless their education growth is directly proportionate to their future/ current fiscal growth.What do you base this on?


Originally posted by NOT YOUR AVG. FAIR WEATHER FRIEND:
it seems to me in Britain that having the exposure to a good higher educational experience is institutionally restricted for certain cultures/ ethnicities.

Basically, we in America take advantage of the opportunities presented by free education... here in Britain for those who want to excel... some of the opportunities to good education are not given.
I'm fascinated to find out what you base these ASSUMPTIONS on.

While you're at it maybe you can offer some definitions of the class divisions in this country. I've asked UK DHPers to do this before and none could. (I read a lot of life stories and family histories but nobody, including those who are keen to jump on "the class issue", was able to offer anything close to a definition.) I'm still confused as to what class I am, maybe you can help me out with this. </font>[/QUOTE]She's using empirical data, gathered from here own observations while living there.

The diversity she is talking about is not the diversity of the nation, but rather the diversity of its institutions.

Generally, I'll be staying out of this one. But for the record, I KNOW EXACTLY what she is talking about and where see is coming from with this entire post. Being that some of you English men are in the culture, you may not realize what is going on around you. In such an instance, it takes someone from the outside to open your eyes.

Peace
TAC

[martin]

Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martin s:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by NOT YOUR AVG. FAIR WEATHER FRIEND:
here in Britain it seems to me that regardless of education there are institutional traditions in place to keep one in their original class unless their education growth is directly proportionate to their future/ current fiscal growth.What do you base this on?


Originally posted by NOT YOUR AVG. FAIR WEATHER FRIEND:
it seems to me in Britain that having the exposure to a good higher educational experience is institutionally restricted for certain cultures/ ethnicities.

Basically, we in America take advantage of the opportunities presented by free education... here in Britain for those who want to excel... some of the opportunities to good education are not given.
I'm fascinated to find out what you base these ASSUMPTIONS on.

While you're at it maybe you can offer some definitions of the class divisions in this country. I've asked UK DHPers to do this before and none could. (I read a lot of life stories and family histories but nobody, including those who are keen to jump on "the class issue", was able to offer anything close to a definition.) I'm still confused as to what class I am, maybe you can help me out with this. </font>[/QUOTE]She's using empirical data, gathered from here own observations while living there.

The diversity she is talking about is not the diversity of the nation, but rather the diversity of its institutions.

Generally, I'll be staying out of this one. But for the record, I KNOW EXACTLY what she is talking about and where see is coming from with this entire post. Being that some of you English men are in the culture, you may not realize what is going on around you. In such an instance, it takes someone from the outside to open your eyes.

Peace
TAC </font>[/QUOTE]Which is what I'm asking for - but nothing yet, and I hope it's going to be more constructive than the ill-informed DHPer that wanted to educate us to the faxt that we're all Asian-haters :rolleyes:

[ngeso]

i sensed that this one was going to turn ridiculous. i'm looking forward to that condescension.

[TAC]

Originally posted by martin s:
Which is what I'm asking for - but nothing yetRe-read my post, EMPIRICAL DATA is what she is basing her assumptions on. She is observing. That's a valid tool. The conclusions may not be, but the way to get to them is.


Originally posted by martin s:
and I hope it's going to be more constructive than the ill-informed DHPer that wanted to educate us to the faxt that we're all Asian-hatersAnd just what do you mean by this statement? Maybe, I'm missing somthing here.

[ July 02, 2003, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: TAC ]

[martin]

Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martin s:
Which is what I'm asking for - but nothing yetRe-read my post, EMPIRICAL DATA is what she is basing her assumptions on. She is observing. That's a valid tool. The conclusions may not be, but the way to get to them is.</font>[/QUOTE]DJ Efab has only given us her assumptions and not what they are based on - that is what I'm interested in.



Originally posted by martin s:
and I hope it's going to be more constructive than the ill-informed DHPer that wanted to educate us to the faxt that we're all Asian-hatersAnd just what do you mean by this statement? Maybe, I'm missing somthing here. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Just a thread from a couple of weeks ago that particularly pissed me off, when someone (can't even remember their user name now) thought they would tell me what this country was like and what the English are like (Asian-haters apparently) without ever having been here.

[der geile hund]

Look at it this way: British white trash + German white trash = America. Potato salad for example.

[TAC]

Originally posted by martin s:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martin s:
Which is what I'm asking for - but nothing yetRe-read my post, EMPIRICAL DATA is what she is basing her assumptions on. She is observing. That's a valid tool. The conclusions may not be, but the way to get to them is.</font>[/QUOTE]DJ Efab has only given us her assumptions and not what they are based on - that is what I'm interested in.



Originally posted by martin s:
and I hope it's going to be more constructive than the ill-informed DHPer that wanted to educate us to the faxt that we're all Asian-hatersAnd just what do you mean by this statement? Maybe, I'm missing somthing here. </font>[/QUOTE]Just a thread from a couple of weeks ago that particularly pissed me off, when someone (can't even remember their user name now) thought they would tell me what this country was like and what the English are like (Asian-haters apparently) without ever having been here. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Wihout going all the way back, we may be in a "net twist" here. Because I responded to something else she said, and you dropped your response under mine. But the orginal assumptions were left out. Take look. Gotta run...

Peace
TAC

[martin]

Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martin s:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martin s:
Which is what I'm asking for - but nothing yetRe-read my post, EMPIRICAL DATA is what she is basing her assumptions on. She is observing. That's a valid tool. The conclusions may not be, but the way to get to them is.</font>[/QUOTE]DJ Efab has only given us her assumptions and not what they are based on - that is what I'm interested in.



Originally posted by martin s:
and I hope it's going to be more constructive than the ill-informed DHPer that wanted to educate us to the faxt that we're all Asian-hatersAnd just what do you mean by this statement? Maybe, I'm missing somthing here. </font>[/QUOTE]Just a thread from a couple of weeks ago that particularly pissed me off, when someone (can't even remember their user name now) thought they would tell me what this country was like and what the English are like (Asian-haters apparently) without ever having been here. </font>[/QUOTE]Wihout going all the way back, we may be in a "net twist" here. Because I responded to something else she said, and you dropped your response under mine. But the orginal assumptions were left out. Take look. Gotta run...

Peace
TAC [/QB][/QUOTE]
I would if I had time. I'll take your word for it smile.gif There's another British thread going on and I've gotta do some work at some point

[ngeso]

Originally posted by der geile hund:
Look at it this way: British white trash + German white trash = America. Potato salad for example. you talkin' 'bout my mama, son! http://deephousepage.com/smilies/boxing_smiley.gif

[Nicholas]

Originally posted by der geile hund:
Look at it this way: British white trash + German white trash = America. Potato salad for example. SUMT!

[TAC]

The Britsh are coming, the British are coming....

RELEASE THE HOOOUNDS!

[ngeso]

Originally posted by TAC:
The Britsh are coming, the British are coming....

RELEASE THE HOOOUNDS! ...they banned that a couple of days ago. it was in the news.

[Insert pseudonym here]

Originally posted by der geile hund:
Look at it this way: British white trash + German white trash = America. Potato salad for example. I WILL NOT HAVE YOU BLASPHEME POTATO SALAD LIKE THAT... ARE YOU FCUK'N MAD? POTATO SALAD AIN'T NEVER DONE NOTHING TO YOU!!!!!! graemlins/rofl.gif

[Martin Red]

People are people wherever they are from, there are differences in cultures, these differences can cancel each other out sometimes.

Hope you are all enjoying life. graemlins/bighug.gif

[Insert pseudonym here]

Originally posted by Mathius:
Make sure Nev and Martin take you to Notting Hill Carnival. It's very much England*London* with it's guard down for a whole weekend. You should see some diversity and unity displayed there...

Are you and the boys not drinking Pimms on the lawn while listening to Wimbledon on the wireless? :D I'm down for the Carnival... especially now that I know how the carnival came about and the roots of its origin. It makes the carnival even more special in my eyes.

The boys and I won't be fraternizing on the lawn with the Pimms. The universe and certain events in it has dictated that I (full of false optimism and hope) sit in front of the television, with a nice glass of purple-saurus rex kool-aid my aunt sent me in the mail stuffed in a Hallmark card and wait for E4 to air the new season of Sex and the City... it would make me feel closer to my real home.

(** Insert Violins here ** )

I would much rather be in the country in which my ethical and social cloth was originally cut. Or rather I'm missing the comradery of home. Especially with everything jumping off in NYC and Chicago. Wimbledon is cool... but nothing beats the sounds of good music, fabulous food, hospitality and a lot of love during the 4th of July.


PS... that Pimms sh*t, I think in about 30 years times we are going to find out that its strong enough to evaporate kryptonite and then regenerate dead embryos (sp?). They say Pimms is Posh, I say Pimms is Poo-Poo.

[mhd]

Originally posted by martin s:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martin s:
Which is what I'm asking for - but nothing yetRe-read my post, EMPIRICAL DATA is what she is basing her assumptions on. She is observing. That's a valid tool. The conclusions may not be, but the way to get to them is.</font>[/QUOTE]DJ Efab has only given us her assumptions and not what they are based on - that is what I'm interested in.



Originally posted by martin s:
and I hope it's going to be more constructive than the ill-informed DHPer that wanted to educate us to the faxt that we're all Asian-hatersAnd just what do you mean by this statement? Maybe, I'm missing somthing here. </font>[/QUOTE]Just a thread from a couple of weeks ago that particularly pissed me off, when someone (can't even remember their user name now) thought they would tell me what this country was like and what the English are like (Asian-haters apparently) without ever having been here. [/QB][/QUOTE]

that was metaphisc's comment. although he had not been there, that does not necessarily make him wrong, while efab is there, yet, her first hand observations are not quite good enough either.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Albert Square:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ Efabulous:



We do have a history of brutal conquest, but then doesn't almost every country?

</font>[/QUOTE]this is the hallmark of a terrible legacy, not sure how you ever move beyond it, on the other hand, it also led to an incredible mixing and movement of people from place to place

[Mah'chew]

Carnival, walk down from Kensal Rise taking in the floats and make sure you hit Norman Jay's Goodtimes early on 'Family Day', which is on Sunday I believe. Get there for about 2 pm and he'll bust a whole lot of soul, his set gets more commercial as the day winds on, but that's part and parcel of the street vibe - sometimes 800 people need to hear something familiar when dancing in the steet.

Look out for the Police as well, I love smoking a bud, knowing that the cops have been told to ease up on weed for the day ;)

I'm thinking of coming back for carnival weekend if I can - it's a great vibe..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/insideldn/radio/images/large_normanjay.jpg

http://www.compuserve.co.uk/channels/news/itn_special/photoweek/270801/monday.jpg

http://www.falasha-recordings.co.uk/pix/carnival99/handss.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/whereyoulive/images/carnival.jpg

[ July 03, 2003, 04:18 AM: Message edited by: Mah'chew ]

[Insert pseudonym here]

Originally posted by Mah'chew:
Carnival, walk down from Kensal Rise taking in the floats and make sure you hit Norman Jay's Goodtimes early on 'Family Day', which is on Sunday I believe. I'm hoping that the festival is similiar to the West Indian day parade in NYC whereas they have a Ju've (sp?). I want to stay up all night for Ju've then roll into the parade. That's the proper way to do a Caribbean carnival.

[martin]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martin s:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martin s:
Which is what I'm asking for - but nothing yetRe-read my post, EMPIRICAL DATA is what she is basing her assumptions on. She is observing. That's a valid tool. The conclusions may not be, but the way to get to them is.</font>[/QUOTE]DJ Efab has only given us her assumptions and not what they are based on - that is what I'm interested in.



Originally posted by martin s:
and I hope it's going to be more constructive than the ill-informed DHPer that wanted to educate us to the faxt that we're all Asian-hatersAnd just what do you mean by this statement? Maybe, I'm missing somthing here. </font>[/QUOTE]Just a thread from a couple of weeks ago that particularly pissed me off, when someone (can't even remember their user name now) thought they would tell me what this country was like and what the English are like (Asian-haters apparently) without ever having been here. </font>[/QUOTE]that was metaphisc's comment. although he had not been there, that does not necessarily make him wrong, while efab is there, yet, her first hand observations are not quite good enough either. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Valid point - he could have that opinion and be here and still be wrong. I can't say whether Efab's observations are wrong as she hasn't informed us of them - only the conclusions made from them. If you read back you will see that I have only asked for her to give the basis of these conclusions (which have not been forthcoming).

Matthius

early on at Good Times on Family Day is definitely the best. I took my son down there last year and we enjoyed a patty whilst sitting listening to Norman and Joey dropping mellow reggae and soul. Looking forward to this year smile.gif

[Jolyon]

My view is that England, for all its many problems, is a diverse country. Many ethnic cultures are slowly assimilated into the English way of life.

Yes, there is still a class divide. If you're born onto a council estate up North, go to a shit school and get a boring unskilled low paid job, it's hard to escape that. But, at the same time there has been incredible social mobility over the last 20 years. Thatcherism, for all its many faults, helped to create a bigger middle class and encouraged some social mobility (well they closed most the manufacturing industry down so there was no choice).

There is still plenty of institutional racism and out in the sticks and in some inner city areas there is a problem with race relations.

On the whole though, it's not a bad place to live.

We have one of the strongest youth cultures in the world...with influences from all over the world and many different races.

[Mah'chew]

I'm all over that, thanks Jolyon graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[martin]

What Jolyon said graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[danny webb]

Efab, for an invaluable insight to the UK psyche, you need look no further than:

http://www.angliatv.com/trisha/images/trisha4.jpg

Trisha!

[Insert pseudonym here]

Originally posted by danny webb:
Efab, for an invaluable insight to the UK psyche, you need look no further than:

Trisha! I attempted to watch that show one day ... and well, I decided that "reading is fundamental". So, I turned the television off and started reading old copies of InStyle magazine.

**That show was top-grade cow manure!**

[danny webb]

Originally posted by Insert pseudonym here:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by danny webb:
Efab, for an invaluable insight to the UK psyche, you need look no further than:

Trisha! I attempted to watch that show one day ... and well, I decided that "reading is fundamental". So, I turned the television off and started reading old copies of InStyle magazine.

**That show was top-grade cow manure!** </font>[/QUOTE]And you aint wrong, the other C*nt (and I don't use this word lightly), is Kilroy on BBC1, amazingly these two shows are US in format, and amazingly the same type of audience gravitate to this kinda show. The shocking thing is that the people in the audience actually exist, in abundance graemlins/scared.gif

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by martin s:

early on at Good Times on Family Day is definitely the best. I took my son down there last year and we enjoyed a patty whilst sitting listening to Norman and Joey dropping mellow reggae and soul. Looking forward to this year smile.gif Same here graemlins/thumbsup.gif , how is the little Brit ;)