If people believe when they die they're going to heaven....

[richierich]

and the afterlife in heaven is going to be better than here on earth...How come most people are either afraid to die or don't wanna die? I aint buying it..Churches damn near on every corner but shit aint any beter because of it. My religion is the real deal and yours aint spewing from the minds of worshippers. Yet another reason for people to be seperated from each other. If it's in this book then it must be real..why can't it be wrong? If I can't question the words in a book that is supposed to have such an impact on my life..I don't know about that. Every denomination is claiming to be the real one. Reading from the same book and getting different meanings... Practicing religion but you got hate, prejudice, evil thoughts, deciet in your heaert.. but it's ok because you go to church. Men in church lusting, women in church lusting and judging, looking at what clothes you have on. What's with the ladies with the big hats anyways?? I use to go every Sunday ..me nor anyone in my entire family never got this HOLY GHOST that is supposed to move you so much....Organized religion is a scam to me plain and simple.

[ September 10, 2003, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: richierich ]

['Magic' Juan]

Because you don't want to leave your family behind. Also, you can't take your crates of vinyl with ya ...

magic_juan

[mhd]

Originally posted by Magic Juan:
Because you don't want to leave your family behind. Also, you can't take your crates of vinyl with ya ...

magic_juan heaven is all cds

[DJ76]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Magic Juan:
Because you don't want to leave your family behind. Also, you can't take your crates of vinyl with ya ...

magic_juan heaven is all cds </font>[/QUOTE]Guess they upgraded, last time I was there, all they had was a tape deck. But the ladies are fine.

[Koffy Brown]

I'm not afraid of dying...I don't want to but I'm not afraid to...I believe I've lived a fairly decent life, actually I try very hard to be the best person I can, not only to myself but to others as well...so I believe that my heaven is mylife and the life I will be given after...

[GROOVE VICTIM]

I don't think that whoever wrote the Bible saw the potential of the human brain.

I don't think that Slave owners saw the potential of a slave that could read.

Catch my drift?

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

I am not afraid of dying and yes, I believe there is a heaven and hell. Anyway as far as religion goes, I don't follow religion or a man (WITHOUT SEEKING GOD FIRST). We are taught to fellowship, therefore we have a place to worship in. People like to be glorified and loose sight of what God will have them to do. That's why there are so many sects of religion, many little churces and people don't know what or what not to believe in. So I go to the source (I KNOW ALOT OF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE WAS TRULY GOD'S WORD - SOME OF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN A SUPREME BEING) anyway I live my life day to day in prayer and guidance. Most of all I learn to live in love, forgiveness and peace. I want to share this and I know this will be left for debate - don't care, how you feel about me, judge me. I will not be swayed or judge those that will make fun, look down on what I have said. It's totally up to you ;)

I John 4:1-7

1BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
2By this you may know (perceive and recognize) the Spirit of God: every spirit which acknowledges and confesses [the fact] that Jesus Christ (the Messiah) [actually] has become man and has come in the flesh is of God [has God for its source];
3And every spirit which does not acknowledge and confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh annul, destroy, [2] sever, disunite Him] is not of God [does not proceed from Him]. This [[3] nonconfession] is the [spirit] of the antichrist, [of] which you heard that it was coming, and now it is already in the world.
4Little children, you are of God [you belong to Him] and have [already] defeated and overcome them [the agents of the antichrist], because He Who lives in you is greater (mightier) than he who is in the world.
5They proceed from the world and are of the world; therefore it is out of the world [its [4] whole economy morally considered] that they speak, and the world listens (pays attention) to them.
[b]6We are [children] of God. Whoever is learning to know God [progressively to perceive, recognize, and understand God by observation and experience, and to [5] get an ever-clearer knowledge of Him] listens to us; and he who is not of God does not listen or pay attention to us. By this we know (recognize) the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error.
7Beloved, let us love one another, for love is (springs) from God; and he who loves [his fellowmen] is begotten (born) of God and is coming [progressively] to know and understand God [to perceive and recognize and get a better and clearer knowledge of Him].

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I am not afraid of dying and yes, I believe there is a heaven and hell. Anyway as far as religion goes, I don't follow religion or a man (WITHOUT SEEKING GOD FIRST). We are taught to fellowship, therefore we have a place to worship in. People like to be glorified and loose sight of what God will have them to do. That's why there are so many sects of religion, many little churces and people don't know what or what not to believe in. So I go to the source (I KNOW ALOT OF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE WAS TRULY GOD'S WORD - SOME OF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN A SUPREME BEING) anyway I live my life day to day in prayer and guidance. Most of all I learn to live in love, forgiveness and peace. I want to share this and I know this will be left for debate - don't care, how you feel about me, judge me. I will not be swayed or judge those that will make fun, look down on what I have said. It's totally up to you ;) Not being combative, but I notice that you post quite a few statements like this and I wonder why? Do you feel somehow persecuted?

[MYOR]

Originally posted by richierich:
and the afterlife in heaven is going to be better than here on earth...How come most people are either afraid to die or don't wanna die? I aint buying it..Churches damn near on every corner but shit aint any beter because of it. My religion is the real deal and yours aint spewing from the minds of worshippers. Yet another reason for people to be seperated from each other. If it's in this book then it must be real..why can't it be wrong? If I can't question the words in a book that is supposed to have such an impact on my life..I don't know about that. Every denomination is claiming to be the real one. Reading from the same book and getting different meanings... Practicing religion but you got hate, prejudice, evil thoughts, deciet in your heaert.. but it's ok because you go to church. Men in church lusting, women in church lusting and judging, looking at what clothes you have on. What's with the ladies with the big hats anyways?? I use to go every Sunday ..me nor anyone in my entire family never got this HOLY GHOST that is supposed to move you so much....Organized religion is a scam to me plain and simple. Well hope you have a friend like mine who prays for me becuae i question the "word of the lord" graemlins/rofl.gif There might be hope for me yet...

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I am not afraid of dying and yes, I believe there is a heaven and hell. Anyway as far as religion goes, I don't follow religion or a man (WITHOUT SEEKING GOD FIRST). We are taught to fellowship, therefore we have a place to worship in. People like to be glorified and loose sight of what God will have them to do. That's why there are so many sects of religion, many little churces and people don't know what or what not to believe in. So I go to the source (I KNOW ALOT OF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE WAS TRULY GOD'S WORD - SOME OF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN A SUPREME BEING) anyway I live my life day to day in prayer and guidance. Most of all I learn to live in love, forgiveness and peace. I want to share this and I know this will be left for debate - don't care, how you feel about me, judge me. I will not be swayed or judge those that will make fun, look down on what I have said. It's totally up to you ;) Not being combative, but I notice that you post quite a few statements like this and I wonder why? Do you feel somehow persecuted? </font>[/QUOTE]Not really, I just want an understanding from the jump I am in no way judging folk that do not believe. I have come to grips that I am strange and unusual graemlins/rofl.gif

[richierich]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by richierich:
and the afterlife in heaven is going to be better than here on earth...How come most people are either afraid to die or don't wanna die? I aint buying it..Churches damn near on every corner but shit aint any beter because of it. My religion is the real deal and yours aint spewing from the minds of worshippers. Yet another reason for people to be seperated from each other. If it's in this book then it must be real..why can't it be wrong? If I can't question the words in a book that is supposed to have such an impact on my life..I don't know about that. Every denomination is claiming to be the real one. Reading from the same book and getting different meanings... Practicing religion but you got hate, prejudice, evil thoughts, deciet in your heaert.. but it's ok because you go to church. Men in church lusting, women in church lusting and judging, looking at what clothes you have on. What's with the ladies with the big hats anyways?? I use to go every Sunday ..me nor anyone in my entire family never got this HOLY GHOST that is supposed to move you so much....Organized religion is a scam to me plain and simple. Well hope you have a friend like mine who prays for me becuae i question the "word of the lord" graemlins/rofl.gif There might be hope for me yet... </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah..I'm still wrestling with the whole thing. When I do have questions I ask my mom..she will always give me an unbiased, non steering answer. She actually keeps me grounded when I question stuff like this. She cracks me up when she says " Some of those church people are just crazy and will believe anything a man in a suit tells them". I believe a lot of times it's the worshippers that are twisted.

[ September 10, 2003, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: richierich ]

[The Buddy Love Show]

Heaven, for the climate; and hell, for the company

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I am not afraid of dying and yes, I believe there is a heaven and hell. Anyway as far as religion goes, I don't follow religion or a man (WITHOUT SEEKING GOD FIRST). We are taught to fellowship, therefore we have a place to worship in. People like to be glorified and loose sight of what God will have them to do. That's why there are so many sects of religion, many little churces and people don't know what or what not to believe in. So I go to the source (I KNOW ALOT OF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE WAS TRULY GOD'S WORD - SOME OF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN A SUPREME BEING) anyway I live my life day to day in prayer and guidance. Most of all I learn to live in love, forgiveness and peace. I want to share this and I know this will be left for debate - don't care, how you feel about me, judge me. I will not be swayed or judge those that will make fun, look down on what I have said. It's totally up to you ;) Not being combative, but I notice that you post quite a few statements like this and I wonder why? Do you feel somehow persecuted? </font>[/QUOTE]Not really, I just want an understanding from the jump I am in no way judging folk that do not believe. I have come to grips that I am strange and unusual graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, but a statement such as "I KNOW SOME OF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE WAS TRULY GOD'S WORD...", coming from a person who obviously does, is really an assertion of belief rather than an acknowledgement that you can accept opposing points of view.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
Heaven, for the climate; and hell, for the company (not to jack, but you get my eMail bro?)

carry on

[MYOR]

Originally posted by richierich:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by richierich:
and the afterlife in heaven is going to be better than here on earth...How come most people are either afraid to die or don't wanna die? I aint buying it..Churches damn near on every corner but shit aint any beter because of it. My religion is the real deal and yours aint spewing from the minds of worshippers. Yet another reason for people to be seperated from each other. If it's in this book then it must be real..why can't it be wrong? If I can't question the words in a book that is supposed to have such an impact on my life..I don't know about that. Every denomination is claiming to be the real one. Reading from the same book and getting different meanings... Practicing religion but you got hate, prejudice, evil thoughts, deciet in your heaert.. but it's ok because you go to church. Men in church lusting, women in church lusting and judging, looking at what clothes you have on. What's with the ladies with the big hats anyways?? I use to go every Sunday ..me nor anyone in my entire family never got this HOLY GHOST that is supposed to move you so much....Organized religion is a scam to me plain and simple. Well hope you have a friend like mine who prays for me becuae i question the "word of the lord" graemlins/rofl.gif There might be hope for me yet... </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah..I'm still wrestling with the whole thing. When I do have questions I ask my mom..she will always give me an unbiased, non steering answer. She actually keeps me grounded when I question stuff like this. She cracks me up when she says " Some of those church people are just crazy and will believe anything a man in a suit tells them". I believe a lot of times it's the worshippers that are twisted. </font>[/QUOTE]I had a 4 hour discussion with my friends about this .. My friend got SO pissed off because I told her "Yes I question GOD"(hence her praying for me biggrinangel.gif ), Then I realized its not "GOD" I question its how people pertray or believe in "GOD". Like her belief that if a child is not babtized they are DAMNED TO HELL..

They sat ther trying to convince me that MY way of thinking was WRONG.. I told them.. How about if my way of thinking is the correct way?? And you are trying for meto take the wrong path?

Then I proceeded to tell her how we are programmed to the "Word of the Lord" and its interpertation. People are like robots when it comes to religion... Her anwer to me then I'd prefer not to know if I'm living a lie.. I feel good having something to believe in...

My answer Yes Ignorance is bliss

[richierich]

Most times than not it is these church folks that are judging and looking DOWN on others for not believing the same thing. If everybody in the congregation is believing the same thing..SOMEBODY IS LYING..to themselves. Go to a church and stand up and question what the pastor is saying and see how quick they usher yo ass out.....to some backroom...or say wait til service is over then we will address you question. Can you imagine the looks on the people's faces if someone at Apostolic Church of God stood up and was like "No way Brazier I aint buying that, what about this" graemlins/scared.gif

[ September 10, 2003, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: richierich ]

[The Buddy Love Show]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
Heaven, for the climate; and hell, for the company (not to jack, but you get my eMail bro?)

carry on </font>[/QUOTE]check your e-mail

[MYOR]

Another thing.. in that whole conversation .. was That I should FEAR GOD..

MY Question: Why? That is like fearing my mother..

The guys answer: You DARE to compare GOD to your mother. You REALLY NEED to find GOD in your life. I hope GOD Doesn't show you he exist by a tragic means..

MY anwer: WTF does that mean??... The only way for me to believe in a god is by something bad happening to me..


icon_rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif Yeah I love these religion talk.. Ok let me continue my destination to HELL according to MANY graemlins/cool_shades.gif

[Friday]

Originally posted by MYOR:
Her anwer to me then I'd prefer not to know if I'm living a lie.. I feel good having something to believe in...
I think that is the answer right there.
If one does something "bad", they can ask God's forgivness or go to church and confess their sins. Sure fire way to get a ticket to heaven.

[Monny JcIntosh]

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
Heaven, for the climate; and hell, for the company graemlins/beerchug.gif

[Hello Kitty]

I believe in a higher being, but my church is my home.

;)

[ September 10, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Hello Kitty ]

[MYOR]

Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
Her anwer to me then I'd prefer not to know if I'm living a lie.. I feel good having something to believe in...
I think that is the answer right there.
If one does something "bad", they can ask God's forgivness or go to church and confess their sins. Sure fire way to get a ticket to heaven. </font>[/QUOTE]Well, She actually meant that if she is at a trouble time she can pray to a GOD.. If her kid is sick She can pray to a GOD.. She has has GOD to turn to for guidance, for help and to thank for all her Joy.

Believe me my friend knows that just by praying for forgiveness doesnt mean u will get to heaven.

[richierich]

Praying for God to give you something or bring you a wife or husband or house..sounds selfish to me. So many people do this..maybe I'm wrong but that's like if you give me something I'll really believe..give me something graemlins/conf44.gif

[mhd]

Originally posted by DJ76:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Magic Juan:
Because you don't want to leave your family behind. Also, you can't take your crates of vinyl with ya ...

magic_juan heaven is all cds </font>[/QUOTE]Guess they upgraded, last time I was there, all they had was a tape deck. </font>[/QUOTE]yeah, but it was a nakamichi

[JR JAM]

Originally posted by richierich:
Praying for God to give you something or bring you a wife or husband or house..sounds selfish to me. So many people do this..maybe I'm wrong but that's like if you give me something I'll really believe..give me something graemlins/conf44.gif You're right. People think of God as some type of genie who works for them. Wrong thinking or wrong teaching?

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by richierich:
Praying for God to give you something or bring you a wife or husband or house..sounds selfish to me. So many people do this..maybe I'm wrong but that's like if you give me something I'll really believe..give me something graemlins/conf44.gif I thought it was "ask and you shall receive"

[DJ76]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ76:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Magic Juan:
Because you don't want to leave your family behind. Also, you can't take your crates of vinyl with ya ...

magic_juan heaven is all cds </font>[/QUOTE]Guess they upgraded, last time I was there, all they had was a tape deck. </font>[/QUOTE]yeah, but it was a nakamichi </font>[/QUOTE]was that before or after the Sansui?
You know, it was a sad day for me when Denon stopped making cassettes, very good quality.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by JR JAM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by richierich:
Praying for God to give you something or bring you a wife or husband or house..sounds selfish to me. So many people do this..maybe I'm wrong but that's like if you give me something I'll really believe..give me something graemlins/conf44.gif You're right. People think of God as some type of genie who works for them. Wrong thinking or wrong teaching? </font>[/QUOTE]My interpertation was a little different.. graemlins/conf44.gif

I see it as, they have someone to turn to.. A shoulder to cry on. Someone that understands what they are going thru.. and knows exactly why they must go thru it. And eventually someone that will help them get thru it, by believing and having faith.

[Friday]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
Her anwer to me then I'd prefer not to know if I'm living a lie.. I feel good having something to believe in...
I think that is the answer right there.
If one does something "bad", they can ask God's forgivness or go to church and confess their sins. Sure fire way to get a ticket to heaven. </font>[/QUOTE]Well, She actually meant that if she is at a trouble time she can pray to a GOD.. If her kid is sick She can pray to a GOD.. She has has GOD to turn to for guidance, for help and to thank for all her Joy.

Believe me my friend knows that just by praying for forgiveness doesnt mean u will get to heaven. </font>[/QUOTE]Naw, I didn't mean your friend, I meant it generally.

[Bold Soul]

Belief is a disease.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
Her anwer to me then I'd prefer not to know if I'm living a lie.. I feel good having something to believe in...
I think that is the answer right there.
If one does something "bad", they can ask God's forgivness or go to church and confess their sins. Sure fire way to get a ticket to heaven. </font>[/QUOTE]Well, She actually meant that if she is at a trouble time she can pray to a GOD.. If her kid is sick She can pray to a GOD.. She has has GOD to turn to for guidance, for help and to thank for all her Joy.

Believe me my friend knows that just by praying for forgiveness doesnt mean u will get to heaven. </font>[/QUOTE]Naw, I didn't mean your friend, I meant it generally. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes that is true.. Let me go out kill a couple of people.. and pray right b4 I die ask the lord for forgiveness.. so I can get into heaven.. icon_rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. You got to believe in something..Why not believe in me.. biggrinangel.gif

that song came into mind.. :D

[richierich]

Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by richierich:
Praying for God to give you something or bring you a wife or husband or house..sounds selfish to me. So many people do this..maybe I'm wrong but that's like if you give me something I'll really believe..give me something graemlins/conf44.gif I thought it was "ask and you shall receive" </font>[/QUOTE]Aint nothing that easy. If that were the case why even get up off of our asses and work for what we want. And what if you don't recieve what you asked for..what did God fail???

[ September 10, 2003, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: richierich ]

[MsTiye78]

"religion is opium for the masses" - karl marx

[ September 10, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: tiye ]

[rob brito]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you.

[rob brito]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]as there are the ones that would agree.

most "facts" we take for granted were handed down to us, and personal experience is all based on our own faith in our perceptive and cognitive abilities.

[E-Phi]

Religion is just each communities way of asking "Why are we here?" You usually follow the "belief" of the community you were born into. If you're an American (USA) a lot of families are Christian. If you're from India you're probably Hindu, if you're Arab you're probably Muslim. So to say who's right is not for us to determine because religion was created by man for man. So to each his/her own. Back then the people tried to explain it in terms they could understand which is the beginning of "religion" idea. Who knew back then that dropping a rock in the water could possible cause a tidal wave? Get my drift?

[lola desire]

i don't believe in heaven or hell, but this is funny:

The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington engineering mid term. The answer was so profound; that the Professor shared it with colleagues, which is why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Bonus Question: Is Hell Exothermic (gives off heat) or Endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Most of the students wrote Proofs of using Boyle's Law (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant.
One student, however, wrote the following:
First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added.

This gives us two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
2. Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it?
If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa Banyan during my Freshman year,... that it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you, and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then, #2 cannot be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze. This student received the only A.

[TAD]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ76:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Magic Juan:
Because you don't want to leave your family behind. Also, you can't take your crates of vinyl with ya ...

magic_juan heaven is all cds </font>[/QUOTE]Guess they upgraded, last time I was there, all they had was a tape deck. </font>[/QUOTE]yeah, but it was a nakamichi </font>[/QUOTE]from the pawn shop

[rob brito]

Originally posted by lola desire:
i don't believe in heaven or hell, but this is funny:

The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington engineering mid term. The answer was so profound; that the Professor shared it with colleagues, which is why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Bonus Question: Is Hell Exothermic (gives off heat) or Endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Most of the students wrote Proofs of using Boyle's Law (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant.
One student, however, wrote the following:
First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added.

This gives us two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
2. Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it?
If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa Banyan during my Freshman year,... that it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you, and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then, #2 cannot be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze. This student received the only A. if the rates coincide so as to give hell a nice, steady 70 degrees than we have heaven!

[TAD]

heaven is in your mother's womb. hell is a place conceived inside the fervent imagination of early man.


BASIS OF MORALITY; OF GOOD, OF EVIL, OF SIN, OF CRIME, OF VICE AND OF VIRTUE.

Q. What is good, according to the law of nature?

A. It is everything that tends to preserve and perfect man.

Q. What is evil?

A. That which tends to man's destruction or deterioration.

Q. What is meant by physical good and evil, and by moral good and evil?

A. By the word physical is understood, whatever acts immediately on the body. Health is a physical good; and sickness a physical evil. By moral, is meant what acts by consequences more or less remote. Calumny is a moral evil; a fair reputation is a moral good, because both one and the other occasion towards us, on the part of other men, dispositions and habitudes,* which are useful or hurtful to our preservation, and which attack or favor our means of existence.

* It is from this word habitudes, (reiterated actions,) in Latin mores, that the word moral, and all its family, are derived.

Q. Everything that tends to preserve, or to produce is therefore a good?

A. Yes; and it is for that reason that certain legislators have classed among the works agreeable to the divinity, the cultivation of a field and the fecundity of a woman.

Q. Whatever tends to cause death is, therefore, an evil?

A. Yes; and it is for that reason some legislators have extended the idea of evil and of sin even to the killing of animals.

Q. The murdering of a man is, therefore, a crime in the law of nature?

A. Yes, and the greatest that can be committed; for every other evil can be repaired, but murder alone is irreparable.

Q. What is a sin in the law of nature?

A. Whatever tends to disturb the order established by nature for the preservation and perfection of man and of society.

Q. Can intention be a merit or a crime?

A. No, for it is only an idea void of reality: but it is a commencement of sin and evil, by the impulse it gives to action.

Q. What is virtue according to the law of nature?

A. It is the practice of actions useful to the individual and to society.

Q. What is meant by the word individual?

A. It means a man considered separately from every other.

Q. What is vice according to the law of nature?

A. It is the practice of actions prejudicial to the individual and to society.

Q. Have not virtue and vice an object purely spiritual and abstracted from the senses?

A. No; it is always to a physical end that they finally relate, and that end is always to destroy or preserve the body.

Q. Have vice and virtue degrees of strength and intensity?

A. Yes: according to the importance of the faculties, which they attack or which they favor; and according to the number of persons in whom those faculties are favored or injured.

Q. Give me some examples?

A. The action of saving a man's life is more virtuous than that of saving his property; the action of saving the lives of ten men, than that of saving only the life of one, and an action useful to the whole human race is more virtuous than an action that is only useful to one single nation.

Q. How does the law of nature prescribe the practice of good and virtue, and forbid that of evil and vice?

A. By the advantages resulting from the practice of good and virtue for the preservation of our body, and by the losses which result to our existence from the practice of evil and vice.

Q. Its precepts are then in action?

A. Yes: they are action itself, considered in its present effect and in its future consequences.

Q. How do you divide the virtues?

A. We divide them in three classes, first, individual virtues, as relative to man alone; secondly, domestic virtues, as relative to a family; thirdly, social virtues, as relative to society.

http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/resources/english/etext-project/history/ruins/book-2chapter4.html

DO GOOD & GOOD WILL FOLLOW

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]as there are the ones that would agree.

most "facts" we take for granted were handed down to us, and personal experience is all based on our own faith in our perceptive and cognitive abilities. </font>[/QUOTE]You've made a circular arguement, as there is no other level of human understanding beyond perception and cognition.

Facts are ACTUAL, as in - it is actual we are posting on this discussion board on this subject. Beliefs get in the way of the actual, which leads to non-acceptance/denial and disturbs the development of shared experience. The development of shared experience is 99% of the result of human activity.

One can BELIEVE that this isn't a discussion board but a stone tablet, but this belief would be onerous and not a basis for shared experience, which is the basis of the illusion of singular existence. Any claim that all facts are beliefs discounts the element of shared perception, upon which all social experience is based. There had to be some basis of fact in your perception in order for you to be effected by the conversation enough to desire to respond.

To edify, I've provided the Webster definition of actual, which is their synonym for fact.

Main Entry: ac·tu·al

1 obsolete : ACTIVE

2 a : existing in act and not merely potentially b : existing in fact or reality &lt;actual and imagined conditions&gt; c : not false or apparent &lt;actual costs&gt;

3 : existing or occurring at the time : CURRENT &lt;caught in the actual commission of a crime&gt;

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]as there are the ones that would agree.

most "facts" we take for granted were handed down to us, and personal experience is all based on our own faith in our perceptive and cognitive abilities. </font>[/QUOTE]You've made a circular arguement, as there is no other level of human understanding beyond perception and cognition.

Facts are ACTUAL, as in - it is actual we are posting on this discussion board on this subject. Beliefs get in the way of the actual, which leads to non-acceptance/denial and disturbs the development of shared experience. The development of shared experience is 99% of the result of human activity.

One can BELIEVE that this isn't a discussion board but a stone tablet, but this belief would be onerous and not a basis for shared experience, which is the basis of the illusion of singular existence. Any claim that all facts are beliefs discounts the element of shared perception, upon which all social experience is based. There had to be some basis of fact in your perception in order for you to be effected by the conversation enough to desire to respond.

To edify, I've provided the Webster definition of actual, which is their synonym for fact.

Main Entry: ac·tu·al

1 obsolete : ACTIVE

2 a : existing in act and not merely potentially b : existing in fact or reality &lt;actual and imagined conditions&gt; c : not false or apparent &lt;actual costs&gt;

3 : existing or occurring at the time : CURRENT &lt;caught in the actual commission of a crime&gt; </font>[/QUOTE]But isn't all this possible because someone believed it could be done... Tested his/hers theories and made it factual??

[rob brito]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]as there are the ones that would agree.

most "facts" we take for granted were handed down to us, and personal experience is all based on our own faith in our perceptive and cognitive abilities. </font>[/QUOTE]You've made a circular arguement, as there is no other level of human understanding beyond perception and cognition.

Facts are ACTUAL, as in - it is actual we are posting on this discussion board on this subject. Beliefs get in the way of the actual, which leads to non-acceptance/denial and disturbs the development of shared experience. The development of shared experience is 99% of the result of human activity.

One can BELIEVE that this isn't a discussion board but a stone tablet, but this belief would be onerous and not a basis for shared experience, which is the basis of the illusion of singular existence. Any claim that all facts are beliefs discounts the element of shared perception, upon which all social experience is based. There had to be some basis of fact in your perception in order for you to be effected by the conversation enough to desire to respond.

To edify, I've provided the Webster definition of actual, which is their synonym for fact.

Main Entry: ac·tu·al

1 obsolete : ACTIVE

2 a : existing in act and not merely potentially b : existing in fact or reality &lt;actual and imagined conditions&gt; c : not false or apparent &lt;actual costs&gt;

3 : existing or occurring at the time : CURRENT &lt;caught in the actual commission of a crime&gt; </font>[/QUOTE]and i agree that you need "facts" to interact but i think it's necessary that people should understand the mechanism we as people use to call them facts.

personal experience for example is highly regarded as the purest form of taking something for fact and i do it too, not before realizing first my senses through which ALL knowledge must pass through first can be tampered with henceforth distorting the truth and secondly...and most importantly, what i have taken as fact is knowledge to me in the present, and incomplete, free from the future and bigger picture of facts yet to be found to me.

knowledge exists outside of us whether we like it or not and it's for us to first discover, understand, and most importantly ACCEPT it...and it's in the ACCEPTANCE of knowledge where faith plays a CRUCIAL ROLE.

just my belief, but i'm still learning too, and always will be....i hope, smile.gif

[ September 10, 2003, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: robs ]

[rob brito]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]as there are the ones that would agree.

most "facts" we take for granted were handed down to us, and personal experience is all based on our own faith in our perceptive and cognitive abilities. </font>[/QUOTE]You've made a circular arguement, as there is no other level of human understanding beyond perception and cognition.

Facts are ACTUAL, as in - it is actual we are posting on this discussion board on this subject. Beliefs get in the way of the actual, which leads to non-acceptance/denial and disturbs the development of shared experience. The development of shared experience is 99% of the result of human activity.

One can BELIEVE that this isn't a discussion board but a stone tablet, but this belief would be onerous and not a basis for shared experience, which is the basis of the illusion of singular existence. Any claim that all facts are beliefs discounts the element of shared perception, upon which all social experience is based. There had to be some basis of fact in your perception in order for you to be effected by the conversation enough to desire to respond.

To edify, I've provided the Webster definition of actual, which is their synonym for fact.

Main Entry: ac·tu·al

1 obsolete : ACTIVE

2 a : existing in act and not merely potentially b : existing in fact or reality &lt;actual and imagined conditions&gt; c : not false or apparent &lt;actual costs&gt;

3 : existing or occurring at the time : CURRENT &lt;caught in the actual commission of a crime&gt; </font>[/QUOTE]But isn't all this possible because someone believed it could be done... Tested his/hers theories and made it factual?? </font>[/QUOTE]science/knowledge is 9/10ths intuition, belief and 1/10th luck from the lips of the researchers themselves.

[Mack-Williams]

From dust you are and to dust you will return.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]as there are the ones that would agree.

most "facts" we take for granted were handed down to us, and personal experience is all based on our own faith in our perceptive and cognitive abilities. </font>[/QUOTE]You've made a circular arguement, as there is no other level of human understanding beyond perception and cognition.

Facts are ACTUAL, as in - it is actual we are posting on this discussion board on this subject. Beliefs get in the way of the actual, which leads to non-acceptance/denial and disturbs the development of shared experience. The development of shared experience is 99% of the result of human activity.

One can BELIEVE that this isn't a discussion board but a stone tablet, but this belief would be onerous and not a basis for shared experience, which is the basis of the illusion of singular existence. Any claim that all facts are beliefs discounts the element of shared perception, upon which all social experience is based. There had to be some basis of fact in your perception in order for you to be effected by the conversation enough to desire to respond.

To edify, I've provided the Webster definition of actual, which is their synonym for fact.

Main Entry: ac·tu·al

1 obsolete : ACTIVE

2 a : existing in act and not merely potentially b : existing in fact or reality &lt;actual and imagined conditions&gt; c : not false or apparent &lt;actual costs&gt;

3 : existing or occurring at the time : CURRENT &lt;caught in the actual commission of a crime&gt; </font>[/QUOTE]But isn't all this possible because someone believed it could be done... Tested his/hers theories and made it factual?? </font>[/QUOTE]science/knowledge is 9/10ths intuition, belief and 1/10th luck from the lips of the researchers themselves. </font>[/QUOTE]You're debating delineated shared experiential data with superlatives and semantics. That's like Einstein looking at an atom splitting and saying "Well, to me it's..."

This isn't a discussion about "truth". This is a discussion about FACT.

Scientific fact comes from three elements: purpose, criteria and result. To change any of those three somewhere after the commencement of experiment creates conjecture.

[ivanjb]

"Religion is bunk"

---Thomas Alva Edison

"God is real, unless declared integer."

"Traveller: God has been mighty good to your fields, Mr. Farmer.
Farmer: You should have seen how he treated them when I wasn't around."

Surgeon General's Warning: Quitting Religion Now
Greatly Increases the Chances of World Peace.

"An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should work now -- here on earth -- for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist accepts that he can get no help through prayer, but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and to enjoy it. An Atheist accepts that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment."

[rob brito]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
This isn't a discussion about "truth". This is a discussion about FACT.truth SHOULD be fact


[qb]Scientific fact comes from three elements: purpose, criteria and result. To change any of those three somewhere after the commencement of experiment creates conjecture. funny how we are all creating conjecture AFTER our experiments (abiding by the rules) by calling it fact when the day after we will discover a contradiction or a missing piece we ASSumed never existed. time and time again throughout history and it will happen still .

ego.

[altrrdst8]

religous fervor is the domain of those who cannot grasp science and reality.
it has torn my country apart for over 30 years. i cant stomach religion, especially christianity. the whole concept of THE GOD OF ALL THE UNIVERSE dropping his son off here on planet earth really is quite ridiculous.

what gets me the most is the sanctimonious behaviour of so called born again christians. damn hypocrits the lot of them.

altrrdst8

[rob brito]

Originally posted by altrrdst8:
religous fervor is the domain of those who cannot grasp science and reality.
it has torn my country apart for over 30 years. i cant stomach religion, especially christianity. the whole concept of THE GOD OF ALL THE UNIVERSE dropping his son off here on planet earth really is quite ridiculous.

what gets me the most is the sanctimonious behaviour of so called born again christians. damn hypocrits the lot of them.

altrrdst8 the very concept of religion is retarded. spiritual matters being memorized? come on.

but in all fairness, evil is a human thing...it's not religious exclusively.

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by altrrdst8:
religous fervor is the domain of those who cannot grasp science and reality.
it has torn my country apart for over 30 years. i cant stomach religion, especially christianity. the whole concept of THE GOD OF ALL THE UNIVERSE dropping his son off here on planet earth really is quite ridiculous.

what gets me the most is the sanctimonious behaviour of so called born again christians. damn hypocrits the lot of them.

altrrdst8 God feels the same way.

[ September 10, 2003, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Mack-Williams ]

[rob brito]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by altrrdst8:
religous fervor is the domain of those who cannot grasp science and reality.
it has torn my country apart for over 30 years. i cant stomach religion, especially christianity. the whole concept of THE GOD OF ALL THE UNIVERSE dropping his son off here on planet earth really is quite ridiculous.

what gets me the most is the sanctimonious behaviour of so called born again christians. damn hypocrits the lot of them.

altrrdst8 God feels the same way. </font>[/QUOTE]graemlins/respekt.gif

[Djay Raare]

Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
I'm not afraid of dying...I don't want to but I'm not afraid to...I believe I've lived a fairly decent life, actually I try very hard to be the best person I can, not only to myself but to others as well...so I believe that my heaven is mylife and the life I will be given after... I truly feel you on this one biggrinangel.gif

[sammyrock]

Church is in my heart,I do not attend any services and I really consider these man made buildings worthless.Just a place to hang meet people who critize what you wear or how much you put into that basket.All I can say on my behalf is stay true to yourself,love yourself and keep the Temple inside pure.Love Love Love..is the way.Peace. biggrinangel.gif smile.gif

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by richierich:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by richierich:
Praying for God to give you something or bring you a wife or husband or house..sounds selfish to me. So many people do this..maybe I'm wrong but that's like if you give me something I'll really believe..give me something graemlins/conf44.gif I thought it was "ask and you shall receive" </font>[/QUOTE]Aint nothing that easy. If that were the case why even get up off of our asses and work for what we want. And what if you don't recieve what you asked for..what did God fail??? </font>[/QUOTE]God fail...not hardly...and it is that easy...you are not suppose to pray for wealth per se, but pray for the ability to make a living...guidance and whatever other tools you need to make it happen...

pray for health and strength and the ability to take care of yourself and it pretty much covers ask and you shall receive

why wouldn't you pray for a mate...I did and I also prayed for the ability to recognize the right one...I know for fact that God gives us what we ask for...we just have to recognize it when it comes and that seems to be the challenge for most...

[ September 10, 2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: AshakiMzuri ]

[richierich]

So what about the ones that ask and don't recieve??? My thing wasn't that I don't believe in God..because I do and I pray for others mostly. I don't ask for thing for myself..to each their own. I was trippin' on the PEOPLE that make RELIGION a CROCK. Telling you this and that and their own personal house aint straight. I'd rather not have some man or woman read a few verses out of a book and then start running their mouth about how they interpret what the verse is supposed to be about. Th whole church mentality of I'm beter than you because I go to church. Going to heaven up in the sky while they are so afraid and not wanting to die. If it's supposed to be HEAVEN why wouldn't you want to go graemlins/conf44.gif

[ September 10, 2003, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: richierich ]

[MYOR]

Originally posted by richierich:
So what about the ones that ask and don't recieve??? Yeah I keep on asking for a million bucks and never receive it.. I've come to the conclusion that I was meant not to have too much money.. biggrinangel.gif

[rob brito]

"it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of god"

i like to include in "rich" anything a man may amass for himself including ego.


ego is a bitch

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by richierich:
So what about the ones that ask and don't recieve??? My thing wasn't that I don't believe in God..because I do and I pray for others mostly. I don't ask for thing for myself..to each their own. I was trippin' on the PEOPLE that make RELIGION a CROCK. Telling you this and that and their own personal house aint straight. I'd rather not have some man or woman read a few verses out of a book and then start running their mouth about how they interpret what the verse is supposed to be about. Th whole church mentality of I'm beter than you because I go to church mentality. Going to heaven up in the sky while they are so afraid and not wanting to die. I f it's supposed to be HEAVEN why wouldn't you want to go graemlins/conf44.gif Did they not receive or did they not recognize the opportunity to receive...

I already told you my philosophy on heaven and hell...actually I believe that we all are of God ...we were created in his image right...we are all spiritual beings and it is up to you to tap into that connection...I don't believe that once we die we go up into the sky and enter into the pearly gates...actually I think that if you are a good individual and do what's right you'll return as a good spirit...as far as I'm concerned we are in hell...marinate on that...

[Kemi J]

Originally posted by altrrdst8:
religous fervor is the domain of those who cannot grasp science and reality.
it has torn my country apart for over 30 years. i cant stomach religion, especially christianity. the whole concept of THE GOD OF ALL THE UNIVERSE dropping his son off here on planet earth really is quite ridiculous.

what gets me the most is the sanctimonious behaviour of so called born again christians. damn hypocrits the lot of them.

altrrdst8 I needed five years to come up with something to say to those who say such things about christianity, which is pretty much everyone in Slovenia not on the churches take. What i've come up with is this:
In your quest for knowledge, which inevitably must extend beyond the realm of science, you make a mistake by assuming that you're above the teachings of Jesus and the bible. If you choose to reject them on the basis of the teachings themselves, having read them and come to the conclusion that they atre useless to you, no problem. But if the actions of the church as an institution and the legions of the uneducated it gathers for its cause (which has turned me away from the Roman catholic institution, but not from Christianity) are the reason why you think yourself justified in dismissing the bible completely, think about what your doing. You are allowing those legions of uneducated and the corrupt members of the church to obstruct you in your quest. If there is something in the good book which might be to your benefit, and you choose to ignore it completely because of the way others have interpreted it and manipulated it to base ends, well, lets just say thats a lot of knowledge and perspective that you've rendered inaccessible. Why should your quest for knowledge suffer because of lesser and less enlightened souls?

Just a thought, i don't mean it forcefully, but it is something most of those who use arguments similar to yours don't seem to consider. As far as science is concerned, well, we'll save that for later smile.gif

kemi

"He sent me someone who really loves me, and not just my body"


"

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
I don't think that whoever wrote the Bible saw the potential of the human brain.

I don't think that Slave owners saw the potential of a slave that could read.

Catch my drift? Very profound statement. The greatest power of religion is having people believe that something they can't prove controls their lives

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by richierich:
Most times than not it is these church folks that are judging and looking DOWN on others for not believing the same thing. If everybody in the congregation is believing the same thing..SOMEBODY IS LYING..to themselves. Go to a church and stand up and question what the pastor is saying and see how quick they usher yo ass out.....to some backroom...or say wait til service is over then we will address you question. Can you imagine the looks on the people's faces if someone at Apostolic Church of God stood up and was like "No way Brazier I aint buying that, what about this" graemlins/scared.gif At Brazier's church, you'd have to get their very early just to get a seat, much less question Bishop Brazier. Brazier is my great uncle through marriage and even he knows that you can't take the Bible literally all the time!

[And]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]Yep

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree too. If we examine ourselves honestly, we'd learn more based on factual observance than beliefs taught to us. The more we go by beliefs, the less we go by instinct and push further away from nature itself.

[And]

Originally posted by Kemi J:
In your quest for knowledge, which inevitably must extend beyond the realm of science, you make a mistake by assuming that you're above the teachings of Jesus and the bible. If you choose to reject them on the basis of the teachings themselves, having read them and come to the conclusion that they atre useless to you, no problem. But if the actions of the church as an institution and the legions of the uneducated it gathers for its cause (which has turned me away from the Roman catholic institution, but not from Christianity) are the reason why you think yourself justified in dismissing the bible completely, think about what your doing. You are allowing those legions of uneducated and the corrupt members of the church to obstruct you in your quest. If there is something in the good book which might be to your benefit, and you choose to ignore it completely because of the way others have interpreted it and manipulated it to base ends, well, lets just say thats a lot of knowledge and perspective that you've rendered inaccessible. Why should your quest for knowledge suffer because of lesser and less enlightened souls?
I like how you've put this.
In the past few years I've been slowly processing this and coming to the same conclusion. I grew up with Christianity "rammed" down my throat and in a lot of ways didn't stop to take out the most important lessons or really ask myself what I was rejecting about it. Now I'd like to think I've humbled my ego a bit and am more willing to ask myself whether or not I'm rejecting a teaching because I don't understand or because I don't believe. Often I find it's because I didn't understand. The humility lessons continue.

[ September 10, 2003, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: 6 23 ]

[And]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree too. If we examine ourselves honestly, we'd learn more based on factual observance than beliefs taught to us. The more we go by beliefs, the less we go by instinct and push further away from nature itself. </font>[/QUOTE]You write this as if our "factual observances" can't be the basis of our beliefs.

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]as there are the ones that would agree.

most "facts" we take for granted were handed down to us, and personal experience is all based on our own faith in our perceptive and cognitive abilities. </font>[/QUOTE]Facts aren't handed down to us. They stand the test of time because they've been proven to be indipsutable evidence toward a particular conclusion that is unversal.
Example: Belief = The world is flat and you fall of the edge if you go out the horizon. This statement was scientifically proven to be untrue (way before Columbus). So the belief that the world is flat has changed because the fact that it's round proved otherwise.
Example 2: Fact = 2+2=4. This basic mathematical concept has been in existence for thousands of years. It has not and will not change and is accepted in any religion, race, creed, or nationality.

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]as there are the ones that would agree.

most "facts" we take for granted were handed down to us, and personal experience is all based on our own faith in our perceptive and cognitive abilities. </font>[/QUOTE]You've made a circular arguement, as there is no other level of human understanding beyond perception and cognition.

Facts are ACTUAL, as in - it is actual we are posting on this discussion board on this subject. Beliefs get in the way of the actual, which leads to non-acceptance/denial and disturbs the development of shared experience. The development of shared experience is 99% of the result of human activity.

One can BELIEVE that this isn't a discussion board but a stone tablet, but this belief would be onerous and not a basis for shared experience, which is the basis of the illusion of singular existence. Any claim that all facts are beliefs discounts the element of shared perception, upon which all social experience is based. There had to be some basis of fact in your perception in order for you to be effected by the conversation enough to desire to respond.

To edify, I've provided the Webster definition of actual, which is their synonym for fact.

Main Entry: ac·tu·al

1 obsolete : ACTIVE

2 a : existing in act and not merely potentially b : existing in fact or reality &lt;actual and imagined conditions&gt; c : not false or apparent &lt;actual costs&gt;

3 : existing or occurring at the time : CURRENT &lt;caught in the actual commission of a crime&gt; </font>[/QUOTE]But isn't all this possible because someone believed it could be done... Tested his/hers theories and made it factual?? </font>[/QUOTE]But believing it could be done and actually proving it are two different things. You believe in what you cannot prove, especially with religion.

[And]

Hmm ... The way I see it, "facts" become beliefs when we find new "facts" to believe. We have many "facts" but who knows what tomorrow's discoveries will do to these facts.

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by Kemi J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by altrrdst8:
religous fervor is the domain of those who cannot grasp science and reality.
it has torn my country apart for over 30 years. i cant stomach religion, especially christianity. the whole concept of THE GOD OF ALL THE UNIVERSE dropping his son off here on planet earth really is quite ridiculous.

what gets me the most is the sanctimonious behaviour of so called born again christians. damn hypocrits the lot of them.

altrrdst8 I needed five years to come up with something to say to those who say such things about christianity, which is pretty much everyone in Slovenia not on the churches take. What i've come up with is this:
In your quest for knowledge, which inevitably must extend beyond the realm of science, you make a mistake by assuming that you're above the teachings of Jesus and the bible. If you choose to reject them on the basis of the teachings themselves, having read them and come to the conclusion that they atre useless to you, no problem. But if the actions of the church as an institution and the legions of the uneducated it gathers for its cause (which has turned me away from the Roman catholic institution, but not from Christianity) are the reason why you think yourself justified in dismissing the bible completely, think about what your doing. You are allowing those legions of uneducated and the corrupt members of the church to obstruct you in your quest. If there is something in the good book which might be to your benefit, and you choose to ignore it completely because of the way others have interpreted it and manipulated it to base ends, well, lets just say thats a lot of knowledge and perspective that you've rendered inaccessible. Why should your quest for knowledge suffer because of lesser and less enlightened souls?

Just a thought, i don't mean it forcefully, but it is something most of those who use arguments similar to yours don't seem to consider. As far as science is concerned, well, we'll save that for later smile.gif

kemi

"He sent me someone who really loves me, and not just my body"


" </font>[/QUOTE]Great statement!!! Kwame Toure (Stokely Carmichael) R.I.P. once said that we should never judge a religion by it's followers, but by it's principles.
Muhammed Ali said on Sept 12th, 2001, regarding religious tolerance, that different religions are like bodies of water. You have lakes, streams, rivers, ponds, and oceans. But at the very essence of each is water. Religion should be the same way. I'm not going to look down on you because your quest for the Creator is different from mine. We're still people.
After I got teary-eyed from Ali's statement, it helped me to accept anyone's religion as long as they have a genuine search for the truth. Angelo Dundee once said that "I hope I become as good a Christian as Ali is a Muslim."
When your search for the truth goes beyond just a church service and one book, you're on the right path.

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by 6 23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree too. If we examine ourselves honestly, we'd learn more based on factual observance than beliefs taught to us. The more we go by beliefs, the less we go by instinct and push further away from nature itself. </font>[/QUOTE]You write this as if our "factual observances" can't be the basis of our beliefs. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm sorry. That was the exact oppsite of my intention. What I meant was exactly what you said. Factual observance SHOULD be the basis of belief, not unwarranted beliefs handed down that have yet to be proven.

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by 6 23:
Hmm ... The way I see it, "facts" become beliefs when we find new "facts" to believe. We have many "facts" but who knows what tomorrow's discoveries will do to these facts. Not true. Facts and beliefs are not collaborative. You don't believe in a fact because a fact is true whether you believe it or not.
Check: 2+2 was 4 before we were born and it will be long after we die. But had we lived during the 13th century in Europe we might have believed that the world was flat. No matter how people believed that then, it was NEVER a fact. Beliefs change over time. Facts never change, and if they did, they would not be considered fact. Only facts can be accumulated to come up with an overall truth. You cannot come to a truthful conclusion based on unwarranted beliefs.

[saadir7]

Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by richierich:
So what about the ones that ask and don't recieve??? My thing wasn't that I don't believe in God..because I do and I pray for others mostly. I don't ask for thing for myself..to each their own. I was trippin' on the PEOPLE that make RELIGION a CROCK. Telling you this and that and their own personal house aint straight. I'd rather not have some man or woman read a few verses out of a book and then start running their mouth about how they interpret what the verse is supposed to be about. Th whole church mentality of I'm beter than you because I go to church mentality. Going to heaven up in the sky while they are so afraid and not wanting to die. I f it's supposed to be HEAVEN why wouldn't you want to go graemlins/conf44.gif Did they not receive or did they not recognize the opportunity to receive...

I already told you my philosophy on heaven and hell...actually I believe that we all are of God ...we were created in his image right...we are all spiritual beings and it is up to you to tap into that connection...I don't believe that once we die we go up into the sky and enter into the pearly gates...actually I think that if you are a good individual and do what's right you'll return as a good spirit...as far as I'm concerned we are in hell...marinate on that... [/QUOTE

Who said God is a "he"?
You are God. Heaven is a state of mind; Hell is what you go through.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
This isn't a discussion about "truth". This is a discussion about FACT.truth SHOULD be fact


[qb]Scientific fact comes from three elements: purpose, criteria and result. To change any of those three somewhere after the commencement of experiment creates conjecture. funny how we are all creating conjecture AFTER our experiments (abiding by the rules) by calling it fact when the day after we will discover a contradiction or a missing piece we ASSumed never existed. time and time again throughout history and it will happen still .

ego. </font>[/QUOTE]Ah - I see where you went with that.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by richierich:
Going to heaven up in the sky while they are so afraid and not wanting to die. If it's supposed to be HEAVEN why wouldn't you want to go graemlins/conf44.gif Incredible!

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by robs:
"it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of god"

i like to include in "rich" anything a man may amass for himself including ego.


ego is a bitch Without ego, you have no foundation for onerous existence. Ego is the perception of individuality.

[Friday]

Facts & truths, perceptions & beliefs. Why is it that we have to have something in order to make the day go by. Strip away our gender, race, thought, intelligence, rationalization and the end result is we are nothing, but we cling to something in order to find a purpose to our non-sensical lives. When you finally accept that you are actually nothing, somewhere in that nothing there will actually be something, the only thing is will you be able to identify that it is there and to further my insanity at this hour when you have identified it, you may have to ask whether you have created yet another illusion to give meaning to your life.
On your final breath will you actually find the truth about your life unless you live each day because you have died to yesterday and are unborn to tomorrow.

On that note I will go to sleep graemlins/sleep2.gif

[AD]

graemlins/jpshakehead.gif @ this whole thread. What ever happened to FAITH? This is sad. I'm out.

[alex zen]

Originally posted by Jonny McIntosh:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
Heaven, for the climate; and hell, for the company graemlins/beerchug.gif </font>[/QUOTE]graemlins/acclaim.gif

[rob brito]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Without ego, you have no foundation for onerous existence. Ego is the perception of individuality. ego, like all else, is dangerous in great quantites. it can create a boisterous illusion based on self pride....it can also make it seem you are out of this the natural loop, above and independent of it.

the right balance between ego and humility gives you your place within yourself, and nature.

to say that was my intention.

[ September 11, 2003, 01:30 AM: Message edited by: robs ]

[rob brito]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree too. If we examine ourselves honestly, we'd learn more based on factual observance than beliefs taught to us.</font>[/QUOTE]and how is it you came to trust your perceptive capabilities with the blindness you do so as to call everything your mind digests and accepts "truth"?


The more we go by beliefs, the less we go by instinct and push further away from nature itself.you mentioned instinct, HOW ON EARTH CAN INSTINCT BE AN UNDISPUTABLE AND PROVEN WAY TO THE TRUTH?
can you prove instinct has not AND WILL NOT steer you wrong?

you TRUST/BELIEVE in your own instinct. think about it.

[ September 11, 2003, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: robs ]

[Friday]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Without ego, you have no foundation for onerous existence. Ego is the perception of individuality. ego, like all else, is dangerous in great quantites. it can create a boisterous illusion based on self pride....it can also make it seem you are out of this the natural loop, above and independent of it.

the right balance between ego and humility gives you your place within yourself, and nature.

to say that was my intention. </font>[/QUOTE]Is this not an illusion too when you place so many ideals on what is right or wrong, because in fact is there a right or wrong? When one can look at oneself with out judgement there is no need for right balances. This search for balances, is this not another form of strengthening the ego?

And those who seek heaven and hell must do so because of their own unhappiness of being here in the now. God was created by man to provide the mind with comfort due to the fact that all of us must die at one time or the other. ;)

OK, now I go to sleep graemlins/sleep2.gif

[ September 11, 2003, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: gf ]

[rob brito]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
[QB]Facts aren't handed down to us. They stand the test of time because they've been proven to be indipsutable evidence toward a particular conclusion that is unversal.1-are you saying everything you learned in school was a result of your own personal experimentation and conclusions? you mean nothing you take as scientific fact (the world is round, the atom can be split, it produces vast amounts of energy when split, black holes dilate time, the universe is expanding away from a focal point millions of times smaller than an atom, time is NOT linear...) was handed down to you? can YOU dj marbll prove these and millions of other facts and claim they were not handed down to you?

2-you, as generations past, are in danger of taking some steps back yourself when your "time proven irrefutable facts" are contradicted by new finds.

it happens every single day as routine.

this is exactly what i mean when i talk of ego destroying or corrupting whatever nature holds as true. you have basically built yourself up to say "this IS and that's it" meanwhile nature has an infinite amount of contradictions waiting to be discovered and you WILL deny it in favour of your pride.

ask einstein. he died a humble man, bewildered by the amount of perplexities the universe held as he dug into the mechanics of our universe.

[rob brito]

Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Without ego, you have no foundation for onerous existence. Ego is the perception of individuality. ego, like all else, is dangerous in great quantites. it can create a boisterous illusion based on self pride....it can also make it seem you are out of this the natural loop, above and independent of it.

the right balance between ego and humility gives you your place within yourself, and nature.

to say that was my intention. </font>[/QUOTE]Is this not an illusion too when you place so many ideals on what is right or wrong, because in fact is there a right or wrong? When one can look at oneself with out judgement there is no need for right balances. This search for balances, is this not another form of strengthening the ego?</font>[/QUOTE]either the "tentatively right" balance or we are either too proud to observe or too uninterested in oursleves to build up our place in our world.

i am not saying it's the right balance but rather what i find instigates a full, enjoyable life for me. but i will put my money where my mouth is and say hey, you never know.


And those who seek heaven and hell must do so because of their own unhappiness of being here in the now. God was created by man to provide the mind with comfort due to the fact that all of us must die at one time or the other. ;) so you feel it's impossible for a happy, fully realized individual (hypothetically speaking) to find god in his own personal introspection?

many can refute that instantly.

maybe someone "found god" free from church and dogmas and was faced with his new reality through his own personal life travels.

misery and fear don't lead to a spiritual understanding of a creator....humility does.

[Martin Red]

OK, it's early and I am not a morning person but there are other things that are tired , yawn !: -

Makes me laugh that the holier than thou " I go to church " etc, can be the ones trying to stab you in the back at work etc. False, if you're going to preach it! Live it! for gods sake.

The "I live a clean life" people, BUT yet they are dirty snakes in the grass, not always of course but I have come across this a fair few times.

I am not lending a record to a so-called "believer" cus some non believers can be more trustworthy, some people hide behind god.

Believe ! (in making themselves look good.)

Well I couldn't give a rats arse what any earth dweller decides the way they look at me. ****ers trying to make their sanctimonies ass look like angels when they are slowing being eaten from within. They emanate all there nastiness and make it look like others.


Take a couple of people and the one who doesn't say shit about living the "righteous" life is probably the one who is actually righteous.


I thank you all and god in this difficult time without the love of all the wonderful souls, I wouldn't have been the wonderful lady boy I am today, I still have lots to learn about life love and being a good person but you have all made me stronger and given me the power to rise up and say that l am truly nuage flaoting de venin d'épanchement d'air chaud, et d'être un pois en matelas éternel de dieux (as god may be french ?!). I thank god, my family especially my cross dressing cousin Daisy. I have learnt to be meek and I have learnt to love teak, as I have made the leap now by getting a teak TV/video combo corner unit. The lord and myself are going to walk through the valley and he shall offer me his Wellington boots as it's been raining for a while and the valley is quite muddy, I thank the lord for both the Wellingtons the mud and the rain that caused the mud and the cloud that caused the rain, because the cloud is the lords hat, for which we should all be thankful. I wish to try on the hat of the lord and hope it is to big otherwise my head is huge. Praise be to the lord for keeping me safe and teaching me and my musical family to be truly gracious host to all the little babies and 3 legged dogs and poorly dolphins, as the lord is good. I thank you all for making me strong enough to get through the troubles of fluff on my needle, I am truly blessed.
graemlins/puke.gif

(And last week they where sacrificing small animals off their head on crack whilst emptying your cupboards of all your food and trying to pull a fast one with your £


"You can't hide from yourself" graemlins/grinyes.gif

graemlins/OLA.gif

[ September 11, 2003, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by saadir7:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:

Originally posted by richierich:
So what about the ones that ask and don't recieve??? My thing wasn't that I don't believe in God..because I do and I pray for others mostly. I don't ask for thing for myself..to each their own. I was trippin' on the PEOPLE that make RELIGION a CROCK. Telling you this and that and their own personal house aint straight. I'd rather not have some man or woman read a few verses out of a book and then start running their mouth about how they interpret what the verse is supposed to be about. Th whole church mentality of I'm beter than you because I go to church mentality. Going to heaven up in the sky while they are so afraid and not wanting to die. I f it's supposed to be HEAVEN why wouldn't you want to go graemlins/conf44.gif Did they not receive or did they not recognize the opportunity to receive...

I already told you my philosophy on heaven and hell...actually I believe that we all are of God ...we were created in his image right...we are all spiritual beings and it is up to you to tap into that connection...I don't believe that once we die we go up into the sky and enter into the pearly gates...actually I think that if you are a good individual and do what's right you'll return as a good spirit...as far as I'm concerned we are in hell...marinate on that... [/QUOTE

Who said God is a "he"?
You are God. Heaven is a state of mind; Hell is what you go through. </font>God is a spirit..Yes I am and so are you...absolutely it's a state of mind and hell is the life we live...sounds like we pretty much stated the same thing except I gave God a gender which was only for the purpose of communicating via message board...

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by saadir7:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:

Originally posted by richierich:
So what about the ones that ask and don't recieve??? My thing wasn't that I don't believe in God..because I do and I pray for others mostly. I don't ask for thing for myself..to each their own. I was trippin' on the PEOPLE that make RELIGION a CROCK. Telling you this and that and their own personal house aint straight. I'd rather not have some man or woman read a few verses out of a book and then start running their mouth about how they interpret what the verse is supposed to be about. Th whole church mentality of I'm beter than you because I go to church mentality. Going to heaven up in the sky while they are so afraid and not wanting to die. I f it's supposed to be HEAVEN why wouldn't you want to go graemlins/conf44.gif Did they not receive or did they not recognize the opportunity to receive...

I already told you my philosophy on heaven and hell...actually I believe that we all are of God ...we were created in his image right...we are all spiritual beings and it is up to you to tap into that connection...I don't believe that once we die we go up into the sky and enter into the pearly gates...actually I think that if you are a good individual and do what's right you'll return as a good spirit...as far as I'm concerned we are in hell...marinate on that... [/QUOTE

Who said God is a "he"?
You are God. Heaven is a state of mind; Hell is what you go through. </font>God is a spirit in my opinion and that's why I think that when you pray and ask for things you are given opportunities and not actual things you are given the ability to make those things happen....It's not some mystical miracle...Yes I am and so are you...absolutely it's a state of mind and hell is the life we live...sounds like we pretty much stated the same thing except I gave God a gender which was only for the purpose of communicating via message board... </font>[/QUOTE]

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Albert Diaz:
graemlins/jpshakehead.gif @ this whole thread. What ever happened to FAITH? This is sad. I'm out. Albert -

Faith stems from trust, the root of which is reasoned.

Hope stems from belief, the root of which is imagined.

[Eric Miles]

I've often struggled.....with religion & church. In my youth, I rejected Christianity due to numerous acts perpetrated upon humanity by "Christians" (i.e. slave trading, Christians calling persons of other religions cannibals & savages while raping their lands & destroying their cultures, racism by the Ku Klux Klan). Also, I found it hard to reconcile my highly scientific way of experiencing the world with religious doctrines & beliefs. For example, how to reconcile evolution with creationism? How to explain the depiction of Jesus in church as a white man with blue eyes when science tells us that humans evolved from primates & that people from that region of the world at that time were brown to dark skinned individuals with woolen hair? I struggled with those things until I received KNOWLEDGE. Many so called "Christians" are straight false-flagging, double-minded individuals practicing blasphemy by merely calling themselves Christians! Through the Word I have learned that you do not need to always shout that you are born again to be a fisher of men...a saviour of souls. Your changed demeanor & the fruits you bear from planting good seeds will draw more people to you than anything else! True believers in Christ acknowledge the daily battles in the Spiritual Realm that occur & fight to kill their flesh of sinful, worldly ways, persuasions and desires. The difference to me is the effort the true followers put up versus those worldly folks who just go with the flow & don't even try to resist temptation. GOD has given us DOMINION over all worldly things & with GOD all things are possible - whether our comparably insignificant human minds can fathom them or not. GOD has blessed man with an ever expanding intellect - science is definitely important. At the same time we still have FREE WILL to believe GOD & follow his word or not....something even GOD's angels do not have the luxury of. I attend Bill Winston's Church - he is an awesome Man of God & I thank him for his guidance & realness...but everyone preaching is NOT of GOD!!!! It is imperative to read the WORD YOURSELF & ask for revelation of the WORD via the HOLY SPIRIT. I have never spoken in tongues but I cannot deny the awesomeness of being in the presence of GOD! I know I am rambling but I just wanted to post this in the event that it might help someone like me, who, for several reasons had the misfortune of not knowing GOD. GOD is real & loves us all so very much! Hell was not meant for man! Hell was meant for Lucifer & the other rebelling angels who once resided with GOD. Heaven will be on Earth.....Earth will be restored to the Paradise it was originally supposed to be before DEATH & SIN entered Earth by way of the original SIN. I guess it can all sound like a fantastic story to some, but call on GOD with all of your heart....SEEK GOD....open your heart to living righteously without sin consciousness...if you fall ask for forgiveness & get back on your walk with GOD & GOD's WORD. Believe me nobody's perfect (I am doing better in a lot of areas in my life)...but we can strive for perfection. Instead of thinking about all of the things you cannot do....think of what you will be able to do with the FAVOR OF GOD IN YOUR LIFE!!!! Blessings to all....I still have a LONG way to go in my walk with GOD but I will never deny GOD! In closing, I would like to pray for more patience, more kindness, more respect & more empathy for ALL MANKIND in the world today. AMEN.

[JR JAM]

Originally posted by Eric Miles:
I've often struggled.....with religion & church. In my youth, I rejected Christianity due to numerous acts perpetrated upon humanity by "Christians" (i.e. slave trading, Christians calling persons of other religions cannibals & savages while raping their lands & destroying their cultures, racism by the Ku Klux Klan). Also, I found it hard to reconcile my highly scientific way of experiencing the world with religious doctrines & beliefs. For example, how to reconcile evolution with creationism? How to explain the depiction of Jesus in church as a white man with blue eyes when science tells us that humans evolved from primates & that people from that region of the world at that time were brown to dark skinned individuals with woolen hair? I struggled with those things until I received KNOWLEDGE. Many so called "Christians" are straight false-flagging, double-minded individuals practicing blasphemy by merely calling themselves Christians! Through the Word I have learned that you do not need to always shout that you are born again to be a fisher of men...a saviour of souls. Your changed demeanor & the fruits you bear from planting good seeds will draw more people to you than anything else! True believers in Christ acknowledge the daily battles in the Spiritual Realm that occur & fight to kill their flesh of sinful, worldly ways, persuasions and desires. The difference to me is the effort the true followers put up versus those worldly folks who just go with the flow & don't even try to resist temptation. GOD has given us DOMINION over all worldly things & with GOD all things are possible - whether our comparably insignificant human minds can fathom them or not. GOD has blessed man with an ever expanding intellect - science is definitely important. At the same time we still have FREE WILL to believe GOD & follow his word or not....something even GOD's angels do not have the luxury of. I attend Bill Winston's Church - he is an awesome Man of God & I thank him for his guidance & realness...but everyone preaching is NOT of GOD!!!! It is imperative to read the WORD YOURSELF & ask for revelation of the WORD via the HOLY SPIRIT. I have never spoken in tongues but I cannot deny the awesomeness of being in the presence of GOD! I know I am rambling but I just wanted to post this in the event that it might help someone like me, who, for several reasons had the misfortune of not knowing GOD. GOD is real & loves us all so very much! Hell was not meant for man! Hell was meant for Lucifer & the other rebelling angels who once resided with GOD. Heaven will be on Earth.....Earth will be restored to the Paradise it was originally supposed to be before DEATH & SIN entered Earth by way of the original SIN. I guess it can all sound like a fantastic story to some, but call on GOD with all of your heart....SEEK GOD....open your heart to living righteously without sin consciousness...if you fall ask for forgiveness & get back on your walk with GOD & GOD's WORD. Believe me nobody's perfect (I am doing better in a lot of areas in my life)...but we can strive for perfection. Instead of thinking about all of the things you cannot do....think of what you will be able to do with the FAVOR OF GOD IN YOUR LIFE!!!! Blessings to all....I still have a LONG way to go in my walk with GOD but I will never deny GOD! In closing, I would like to pray for more patience, more kindness, more respect & more empathy for ALL MANKIND in the world today. AMEN. graemlins/respekt.gif

[Huey P. Freeman]

I believe Santa Claus is god. I saw him at the mall once. My religion is more believable than all others. I've at least seen Santa.

[rob brito]

Originally posted by JR JAM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eric Miles:
I've often struggled.....with religion & church. In my youth, I rejected Christianity due to numerous acts perpetrated upon humanity by "Christians" (i.e. slave trading, Christians calling persons of other religions cannibals & savages while raping their lands & destroying their cultures, racism by the Ku Klux Klan). Also, I found it hard to reconcile my highly scientific way of experiencing the world with religious doctrines & beliefs. For example, how to reconcile evolution with creationism? How to explain the depiction of Jesus in church as a white man with blue eyes when science tells us that humans evolved from primates & that people from that region of the world at that time were brown to dark skinned individuals with woolen hair? I struggled with those things until I received KNOWLEDGE. Many so called "Christians" are straight false-flagging, double-minded individuals practicing blasphemy by merely calling themselves Christians! Through the Word I have learned that you do not need to always shout that you are born again to be a fisher of men...a saviour of souls. Your changed demeanor & the fruits you bear from planting good seeds will draw more people to you than anything else! True believers in Christ acknowledge the daily battles in the Spiritual Realm that occur & fight to kill their flesh of sinful, worldly ways, persuasions and desires. The difference to me is the effort the true followers put up versus those worldly folks who just go with the flow & don't even try to resist temptation. GOD has given us DOMINION over all worldly things & with GOD all things are possible - whether our comparably insignificant human minds can fathom them or not. GOD has blessed man with an ever expanding intellect - science is definitely important. At the same time we still have FREE WILL to believe GOD & follow his word or not....something even GOD's angels do not have the luxury of. I attend Bill Winston's Church - he is an awesome Man of God & I thank him for his guidance & realness...but everyone preaching is NOT of GOD!!!! It is imperative to read the WORD YOURSELF & ask for revelation of the WORD via the HOLY SPIRIT. I have never spoken in tongues but I cannot deny the awesomeness of being in the presence of GOD! I know I am rambling but I just wanted to post this in the event that it might help someone like me, who, for several reasons had the misfortune of not knowing GOD. GOD is real & loves us all so very much! Hell was not meant for man! Hell was meant for Lucifer & the other rebelling angels who once resided with GOD. Heaven will be on Earth.....Earth will be restored to the Paradise it was originally supposed to be before DEATH & SIN entered Earth by way of the original SIN. I guess it can all sound like a fantastic story to some, but call on GOD with all of your heart....SEEK GOD....open your heart to living righteously without sin consciousness...if you fall ask for forgiveness & get back on your walk with GOD & GOD's WORD. Believe me nobody's perfect (I am doing better in a lot of areas in my life)...but we can strive for perfection. Instead of thinking about all of the things you cannot do....think of what you will be able to do with the FAVOR OF GOD IN YOUR LIFE!!!! Blessings to all....I still have a LONG way to go in my walk with GOD but I will never deny GOD! In closing, I would like to pray for more patience, more kindness, more respect & more empathy for ALL MANKIND in the world today. AMEN. graemlins/respekt.gif </font>[/QUOTE]much, much respect eric.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
I believe Santa Claus is god. I saw him at the mall once. My religion is more believable than all others. I've at least seen Santa. graemlins/rofl.gif

[rob brito]

"education is a progressive discovery of one's own ignorance."

[däp]

Originally posted by Eric Miles:
I attend Bill Winston's Church - he is an awesome Man of God & I thank him for his guidance & realness...funny. i've been attending Living Word for more than a year. i really enjoy the "teaching" that i'm receiving there. i grew up in the traditional baptist church and grew weary of all the "hooting and hollering".

learning a lot over there. maybe i'll see you one day.

[dennis f]

Originally posted by Hello Kitty:
I believe in a higher being, but my church is my home. ;) just a little editing needed for me here...

I believe in a higher being, but my church is my heart and my conscience my pastor.

You see heaven is here on earth...it's all around you...it's watching your children grow up..it's you enjoying the simple things in life that you constantly take for granted but remember with a smile on your death bed. Hell is the by-product of what you've done wrong in your life. Many of us have glimpsed it but you find a way to correct the wrongs that you've done....although some don't ever and they pay the price right up to the end.
What I don't believe in is organized religion...it's a sham and has been the cause of more wars, slavery and the annihilation of millions of people all in the name of Him.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Eric Miles:
I've often struggled.....with religion & church. In my youth, I rejected Christianity due to numerous acts perpetrated upon humanity by "Christians" (i.e. slave trading, Christians calling persons of other religions cannibals & savages while raping their lands & destroying their cultures, racism by the Ku Klux Klan). Also, I found it hard to reconcile my highly scientific way of experiencing the world with religious doctrines & beliefs. For example, how to reconcile evolution with creationism? How to explain the depiction of Jesus in church as a white man with blue eyes when science tells us that humans evolved from primates & that people from that region of the world at that time were brown to dark skinned individuals with woolen hair? I struggled with those things until I received KNOWLEDGE. Many so called "Christians" are straight false-flagging, double-minded individuals practicing blasphemy by merely calling themselves Christians! Through the Word I have learned that you do not need to always shout that you are born again to be a fisher of men...a saviour of souls. Your changed demeanor & the fruits you bear from planting good seeds will draw more people to you than anything else! True believers in Christ acknowledge the daily battles in the Spiritual Realm that occur & fight to kill their flesh of sinful, worldly ways, persuasions and desires. The difference to me is the effort the true followers put up versus those worldly folks who just go with the flow & don't even try to resist temptation. GOD has given us DOMINION over all worldly things & with GOD all things are possible - whether our comparably insignificant human minds can fathom them or not. GOD has blessed man with an ever expanding intellect - science is definitely important. At the same time we still have FREE WILL to believe GOD & follow his word or not....something even GOD's angels do not have the luxury of. I attend Bill Winston's Church - he is an awesome Man of God & I thank him for his guidance & realness...but everyone preaching is NOT of GOD!!!! It is imperative to read the WORD YOURSELF & ask for revelation of the WORD via the HOLY SPIRIT. I have never spoken in tongues but I cannot deny the awesomeness of being in the presence of GOD! I know I am rambling but I just wanted to post this in the event that it might help someone like me, who, for several reasons had the misfortune of not knowing GOD. GOD is real & loves us all so very much! Hell was not meant for man! Hell was meant for Lucifer & the other rebelling angels who once resided with GOD. Heaven will be on Earth.....Earth will be restored to the Paradise it was originally supposed to be before DEATH & SIN entered Earth by way of the original SIN. I guess it can all sound like a fantastic story to some, but call on GOD with all of your heart....SEEK GOD....open your heart to living righteously without sin consciousness...if you fall ask for forgiveness & get back on your walk with GOD & GOD's WORD. Believe me nobody's perfect (I am doing better in a lot of areas in my life)...but we can strive for perfection. Instead of thinking about all of the things you cannot do....think of what you will be able to do with the FAVOR OF GOD IN YOUR LIFE!!!! Blessings to all....I still have a LONG way to go in my walk with GOD but I will never deny GOD! In closing, I would like to pray for more patience, more kindness, more respect & more empathy for ALL MANKIND in the world today. AMEN. Hey you!!! Congrats, I've heard about your recent celebration!

You get nothing but respect from me graemlins/bighug.gif

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
I believe Santa Claus is god. I saw him at the mall once. My religion is more believable than all others. I've at least seen Santa. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]ON THAT NOTE, HERE IS SOMETHING INTERESTING FROM 2 TIMOTHY 4:2-5

2Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.
3For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold,
5As for you, be calm and cool and steady, accept and suffer unflinchingly every hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fully perform all the duties of your ministry.

You have never seen your brain but you know you have one graemlins/conf44.gif

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
I believe Santa Claus is god. I saw him at the mall once. My religion is more believable than all others. I've at least seen Santa. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]ON THAT NOTE, HERE IS SOMETHING INTERESTING FROM 2 TIMOTHY 4:2-5

2Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.
3For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold,
5As for you, be calm and cool and steady, accept and suffer unflinchingly every hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fully perform all the duties of your ministry.

You have never seen your brain but you know you have one graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]The brain can and has been seen and studied. No one espouses that one brain is wrong and another is right. I could go on.

Religious people (and those who are irreligious until you grow afraid of something) don't take another's disbelief very well. Problem is, most of those in this thread who are supporting belief structures as seeming truth have revealed in other threads how relaxed their beliefs can get when other pleasures come to the forefront.

Has anyone (especially Christians and their many flavors) ever noticed that in their religion, the only unforgivable sin is DISBELIEF?

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
I believe Santa Claus is god. I saw him at the mall once. My religion is more believable than all others. I've at least seen Santa. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]ON THAT NOTE, HERE IS SOMETHING INTERESTING FROM 2 TIMOTHY 4:2-5

2Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.
3For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold,
5As for you, be calm and cool and steady, accept and suffer unflinchingly every hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fully perform all the duties of your ministry.

You have never seen your brain but you know you have one graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Actually I was just trying to interject some humor into the subject. But I'm glad you made the last statement because it completely does NOT support the belief that there is a god. You can go down to a morgue watch an autopsy and see that every human being that comes through there has a brain. You, I or the person who wrote the book you believe in has never physically seen god. Or can open a medical book and see him. Or can turn on the discovery channel and watch a program on him where they will show him. Religion was designed to control you by instilling fear of this deity that would damn your soul if you did not follow the rules his book laid out for you. Bullshit I say. And I'm sure you could quote some scripture that describes people like me. The author of your book was very thorough and planned for most contengiencies. Although i do most certainly believe in god I do not accept your book of fairy tales to be the definative road map to heaven.

[ September 12, 2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Eargasm ]

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
I believe Santa Claus is god. I saw him at the mall once. My religion is more believable than all others. I've at least seen Santa. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]ON THAT NOTE, HERE IS SOMETHING INTERESTING FROM 2 TIMOTHY 4:2-5

2Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.
3For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold,
5As for you, be calm and cool and steady, accept and suffer unflinchingly every hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fully perform all the duties of your ministry.

You have never seen your brain but you know you have one graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]The brain can and has been seen and studied. No one espouses that one brain is wrong and another is right. I could go on.

Religious people (and those who are irreligious until you grow afraid of something) don't take another's disbelief very well. Problem is, most of those in this thread who are supporting belief structures as seeming truth have revealed in other threads how relaxed their beliefs can get when other pleasures come to the forefront.

Has anyone (especially Christians and their many flavors) ever noticed that in their religion, the only unforgivable sin is DISBELIEF? </font>[/QUOTE]All sin in forgivable - believe it or not. I ACTUALLY READ THAT IN THE BIBLE. I didn't have a preacher tell me that. All UNCONFESSED SIN is unforgivable.

As far as believers being relaxed when it comes to their pleasures - to each it's own. We are still human and still have to learn to live righteously, Also we have to know how to live as earthly being. We can't be so heaven bound that we are no earthly good. That would be called a bible beater - Our way our the highway graemlins/conf44.gif

[ September 12, 2003, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: DiscoLady ]

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
I believe Santa Claus is god. I saw him at the mall once. My religion is more believable than all others. I've at least seen Santa. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]ON THAT NOTE, HERE IS SOMETHING INTERESTING FROM 2 TIMOTHY 4:2-5

2Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.
3For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold,
5As for you, be calm and cool and steady, accept and suffer unflinchingly every hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fully perform all the duties of your ministry.

You have never seen your brain but you know you have one graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Actually I was just trying to interject some humor into the subject. But I'm glad you made the last statement because it completely does NOT support the belief that there is a god. You can go down to a morgue watch an autopsy and see that every human being that comes through there has a brain. You, I or the person who wrote the book you believe in has never physically seen god. Or can open a medical book and see him. Or can turn on the discovery channel and watch a program on him where they will show him. Religion was designed to control you by instilling fear of this deity that would damn your soul if you did not follow the rules his book laid out for you. Bullshit I say. And I'm sure you could quote some scripture that describes people like me. The author of your book was very thorough and planned for most contengiencies. Although i do most certainly believe in god I do not accept your book of fairy tales to be the definative road map to heaven. </font>[/QUOTE]Eargasmn, U R GOING TO HELL THINKING LIKE THIS!! graemlins/spanka.gif

I guess I'll see you there ;) ... Then again I do have people praying for me so I just might be saved graemlins/tongueout.gif

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
I believe Santa Claus is god. I saw him at the mall once. My religion is more believable than all others. I've at least seen Santa. graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]ON THAT NOTE, HERE IS SOMETHING INTERESTING FROM 2 TIMOTHY 4:2-5

2Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.
3For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold,
5As for you, be calm and cool and steady, accept and suffer unflinchingly every hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fully perform all the duties of your ministry.

You have never seen your brain but you know you have one graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Actually I was just trying to interject some humor into the subject. But I'm glad you made the last statement because it completely does NOT support the belief that there is a god. You can go down to a morgue watch an autopsy and see that every human being that comes through there has a brain. You, I or the person who wrote the book you believe in has never physically seen god. Or can open a medical book and see him. Or can turn on the discovery channel and watch a program on him where they will show him. Religion was designed to control you by instilling fear of this deity that would damn your soul if you did not follow the rules his book laid out for you. Bullshit I say. And I'm sure you could quote some scripture that describes people like me. The author of your book was very thorough and planned for most contengiencies. Although i do most certainly believe in god I do not accept your book of fairy tales to be the definative road map to heaven. </font>[/QUOTE]I was actually being funny. I was talking about a brain in your own head, not in general.

Believe what you want, I can't force you to believe in anything. People find the truth when they need it or in search of it. I just hope you know that God won't orchestrate a human being without an instruction manual.

[rob brito]

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy, meditate on these things.
--Philippians 4:8

[ September 12, 2003, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: robs ]

[rob brito]

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love I gain nothing Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away...And now these things remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
--1 Corinthians 13:1-8, 13

[rob brito]

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
--Galatians 5:22-23

[Huey P. Freeman]

graemlins/sleep2.gif

[rob brito]

all my life i've heard how asinine i am supposed to be for feeling how i feel about life...i've never turned a deaf ear to anyone's rebuttals to my beliefs or worse put them down...if i've seen someone is not willing to discuss what and where my faith comes from, i close my mouth. instead i've had to deal with the vociferousness of many in the name of a knowledge (the tangible/sciences)that in too many instances i knew more accurately anyway and i say this not too boast but to assert my love for the truths and purities in our universe.

i gave up on the idea of holding on to someone's opinion to fuel my own conviction at a very young age but it's funny to hear how "intolerable" "we" are supposed to be.

whomever "we" is supposed to denote...everyone's different and those of us who have come to a realization of a creator have done so and live the beliefs in different ways.

if we are true to our faith in love, none of us are intolerable...that's how i'm living.

[rob brito]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
graemlins/sleep2.gif wake up!

the world's going to shit because many of the things in those quotes are being stepped on!!

never mind, go back to bed....

[Koffy Brown]

I believe that there is a God who created Heaven and Earth and man .... but I also believe that God is a spirit that is within us...I don't think that there is some spiritual being sitting up in the sky letting whomever he believes has been good in Heaven and shutting the door in the faces of us who didn't get saved ....

BUT forreal though, I also believe that there are just some things that need to be left alone....and trying to figure GOD out is one of them...

[Eric Miles]

Hello again to all believers & non believers. . . . Here is an article I found on this subject that you may find to be interesting - I sure did. Enjoy all!

Why Believe in God?
Many say God doesn't exist. It's time to check out the evidence.

adapted from Know Why You Believe by Paul Little

You're sitting in the cafeteria with a few people from your biology class. The talk around the table is going a little bit of everywhere and not much of anywhere. Somewhere in the conversation, between chatting about dates and a killer bio test, you casually mention the church retreat you attended last weekend. Someone asks, "You go to church?" Another asks, "You believe in God?" Another says bluntly, "I don't believe in God. How can anyone even know if there is a God?"

You listen uncomfortably as everyone else talks about how evolution disproves God. You leave the cafeteria feeling defeated, maybe even wondering if intelligent people really do believe in God. Yes, says Christian writer Paul Little, many intelligent people do believe in God—and with good reason. In this adaptation from Know Why You Believe, Paul offers some evidence that should not only help strengthen your beliefs, but also give you something to say when the lunchroom conversation turns toward religion.

OK, we'll admit something right off. It is impossible to put God in a test tube or prove him by scientific method. But that shouldn't cause us to say, "God really is dead!" Hardly. In fact, there are many reasons to believe that God is very much alive and active in the universe.

Think about humanity's overall longing for something beyond what we see. It's this longing that causes people to turn to religion for answers.

It is significant that studies of the world's cultures show an almost universal belief in a god or gods. This is not surprising to people who believe the Bible. The writer of Ecclesiastes referred to God as having "set eternity in the hearts of men" (Ecclesiastes 3:11). This inner longing was described by Blaise Pascal, the great 17th-century mathematician, as "the God-shaped vacuum" in every human being.

Obviously, this "vacuum" isn't conclusive proof. But it is important to remember as we consider other evidence for God's existence.

What Are the Odds?
There are approximately 11 million species of life on earth, including humans. Did all of these, including the universe itself, begin by chance?

Scientists have claimed that given the right conditions, some sort of life form would eventually evolve. How ever, the same scientists who propose this theory are quick to point out its weaknesses. The respected astronomer Sir Fred Hoyle asks, "What are the chances that a tornado might blow through a junk yard containing all the parts of a 747, accidentally assemble them into a plane, and leave it ready for takeoff?" Hoyle answers, "The possibilities are so small as to be negligible even if a tornado were to blow through enough junk yards to fill the whole universe!"

In his book The Intelligent Universe, Hoyle says, "As biochemists discover more and more about the awesome complexity of life, it is apparent that its chances of originating by accident are so minute that they can be completely ruled out. Life cannot have arisen by chance."

In the Beginning
In 1965, two physicists discovered that the earth was entirely bathed in a faint glow of radiation. Its waves followed the exact pattern of wavelength expected in a giant explosion. Scientists explained that the waves were the obvious aftermath of a "big bang." Thus, an old theory about the beginnings of the universe gained wider acceptance in the scientific community.

Dr. Robert Jastrow, founder of NASA's Institute for Space Studies, says that the Big Bang theory offers scientific evidence for a biblical view of how the universe began. This respected scientist says that "science has proven that the universe exploded into being in a certain moment." He further explains that this sudden explosion points to a truth found in the very first sentence of the Bible: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

So we see that current scientific evidence for the Big Bang theory points toward a Creator God. And it affirms something King David wrote several thousand years ago: "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands" (Psalms 19:1).

Why Is There Right and Wrong?
Another evidence for the existence of God, says Christian writer C.S. Lewis, is that people everywhere in the world believe in some idea of right and wrong. People argue with one another every day: "That's my seat. I had it first! Suppose I did the same to you! How would you like it? Come on, you promised. …"

These daily arguments show that there must be some law or rule of fair play or morality built into us. Lewis says this moral law cannot simply be about what a group of people decides is right for them. It is more like a mathematical table. We would never say the math table could be made differently if we had simply wanted to make it differently. Two plus two will always equal four. And just as there are math "laws" that can never change, the same is true of moral law.

Yes, there is Somebody behind the universe. He has put a moral law within us, and he is intensely interested in right conduct—in fair play, unselfishness, courage, good faith, honesty and truthfulness.

God's Greatest Evidence
Even though there are many things in nature—even human nature—that point toward God, we could never know conclusively from nature that he is or what he is like. But God has taken the initiative to reveal himself. He has lived among us. He has made his full invasion into human history in the person of Jesus Christ.

Think of it like this. If you want to communicate your love for a colony of ants, how could you most effectively do it? You'd become an ant. This is what God did for us. The best answer to how we know there is a God is that God himself has visited this planet. All of the other pieces of "evidence" for God are merely clues and hints.

The actual existence of Jesus is a well-accepted historical fact. But was he really God? As we consider Christ's claims about himself, there are only four possibilities:

1) He was a liar. That is, he knew he was not God, but deliberately deceived his hearers to give authority to his teaching. There are, of course, people who say he was a great moral teacher, but deny his deity. But a deliberate liar and deceiver would hardly qualify as a great "moral" teacher!

2) He was deceived. We have a name for a person who thinks he is God. That name is lunatic. And that label certainly would apply to Christ if he were merely human.

3) He was a legend. This theory claims that as time passed, Christ's enthusiastic followers put words into his mouth, adding to his legend. Were he to return, he would immediately deny them.

This legend theory has been refuted by modern archaeology, which has conclusively shown that the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) were written within the lifetime of contemporaries of Christ. Some time ago Dr. William F. Albright, a world-famous archaeologist, said there was no reason to believe that any of the Gospels were written later than A.D. 70.

Think of it like this. Imagine that someone today wrote a biography of the late President Richard Nixon, and in it said he claimed to be God, to have forgiven people's sins, and to have risen from the dead. Such a story would never get off the ground because there are still too many people around who knew Nixon! The same would be true for the Gospel writers. If they had written lies, they would have been exposed as frauds.

4) He was telling the truth. That is, Jesus was who he said he was. But some might argue, "So what? Talk is cheap!" Anyone can make claims. Others have claimed deity. But when it comes to Jesus of Nazareth, his words are backed up by evidence. He said, "If I don't do the things my Father does, well and good; don't believe me. But if I am doing them, put aside for a moment what you hear me say about myself and just take the evidence of the actions that are right before your eyes. Then perhaps things will come together for you, and you'll see that not only are we doing the same thing; we are the same—Father and Son. He is in me; I am in him" (John 10:38, The Message).

The greatest evidence to Christ's claims of deity is his resurrection from the dead. Five times, he predicted he would die. He also predicted how he would die and that three days later he would rise from the dead and appear to his disciples.

For evidence of his resurrection, you must turn to the historical record. There are 10 different recorded sightings of the living Christ after his death by crucifixion. In one of his appearances, he was seen by a group of 500 people (1 Corinthians 15:6).

For those who still say the Resurrection was made up, I have a question: What was it that changed a group of frightened, cowardly disciples into men of courage and conviction? What turned them into people who were willing to be tortured and killed because they believed Jesus was God? I believe that only the real bodily resurrection of Christ could have produced such a radical change.

Finally, there is the evidence for the Resurrection that is very personal. If Jesus Christ rose from the dead, he is alive today, ready to invade and change those who invite him into their lives. In fact, millions now living claim their lives have been revolutionized by Jesus Christ. He has done in them what he said he would do.

"Believe in Jesus and be saved" isn't simply a nice religious saying. It is a life-changing reality. It is evidence that God is alive and living in those who choose to accept him as Lord and Savior.

More Good Reasons to Believe
Paul Little wanted Christians to approach their faith with both their hearts and their minds. He wanted Christian students to be able to stand their ground in a conversation about Christianity and not doubt their faith every time someone questioned it. That's why he wrote Know Why You Believe. We encourage you to pick up a copy of this book and read it from cover to cover.

[rob brito]

"How big is the smallest fish in the pond? You catch one hundred fishes, all of which are greater than six inches. Does this evidence support the hypothesis that no fish in the pond is much less than six inches long? Not if your net can’t catch smaller fish."

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
graemlins/sleep2.gif wake up!

the world's going to shit because many of the things in those quotes are being stepped on!!

never mind, go back to bed.... </font>[/QUOTE]I'm glad you said that. At the times when those books were written the world was "going to shit" also. Those books were created for the sole purpose of reigning in the sheeple by instilling "The Fear of God" in them. Religion itself was created out of ignorance and fear. From the Egyptian gods to Zues(SP?) and the gods of Mount Olympus and Odin and Asgardian gods to Jesus Christ. I see no difference. All fairy tales. All the so called enlightened religious zealots kill me. The masses are sheep. graemlins/sleep2.gif

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
I believe that there is a God who created Heaven and Earth and man .... but I also believe that God is a spirit that is within us...I don't think that there is some spiritual being sitting up in the sky letting whomever he believes has been good in Heaven and shutting the door in the faces of us who didn't get saved ....

BUT forreal though, I also believe that there are just some things that need to be left alone....and trying to figure GOD out is one of them... According to God's word the ones that will enter are the ones that believe in him, his word, have faith and love others as he loves us. The worst thing to do is not forgive someone or hate someone and expect God love us anyway graemlins/conf44.gif

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
graemlins/sleep2.gif wake up!

the world's going to shit because many of the things in those quotes are being stepped on!!

never mind, go back to bed.... </font>[/QUOTE]I'm glad you said that. At the times when those books were written the world was "going to shit" also. Those books were created for the sole purpose of reigning in the sheeple by instilling "The Fear of God" in them. Religion itself was created out of ignorance and fear. From the Egyptian gods to Zues(SP?) and the gods of Mount Olympus and Odin and Asgardian gods to Jesus Christ. I see no difference. All fairy tales. All the so called enlightened religious zealots kill me. The masses are sheep. graemlins/sleep2.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Well I don't see the difference between a over zealous non-believer and over zealous believer.. We must agree to disagree... Respect their views.. as they should respect yours... graemlins/acclaim.gif

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
I believe that there is a God who created Heaven and Earth and man .... but I also believe that God is a spirit that is within us...I don't think that there is some spiritual being sitting up in the sky letting whomever he believes has been good in Heaven and shutting the door in the faces of us who didn't get saved ....

BUT forreal though, I also believe that there are just some things that need to be left alone....and trying to figure GOD out is one of them... According to God's word the ones that will enter are the ones that believe in him, his word, have faith and love others as he loves us. The worst thing to do is not forgive someone or hate someone and expect God love us anyway graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Right - and if you don't believe in God, his "son" and his angels, you're either backed up at the door or sent to hell.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
I believe that there is a God who created Heaven and Earth and man .... but I also believe that God is a spirit that is within us...I don't think that there is some spiritual being sitting up in the sky letting whomever he believes has been good in Heaven and shutting the door in the faces of us who didn't get saved ....

BUT forreal though, I also believe that there are just some things that need to be left alone....and trying to figure GOD out is one of them... According to God's word the ones that will enter are the ones that believe in him, his word, have faith and love others as he loves us. The worst thing to do is not forgive someone or hate someone and expect God love us anyway graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]But who says that you are quoting God's words? I believe in God but I believe differently than you, so what makes your way right and mine wrong...that's why religion is the biggest division amongst man....I personally don't think that the bible was meant to be taken so litterally, by golly it's all man written, interpreted, transcribed so on and so forth...the bottom line, some things man don't know, won't know and shouldn't take time trying to figure out...we should be concentrating on living ourlives right...well as right as we can to be human beings...

[MYOR]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
I believe that there is a God who created Heaven and Earth and man .... but I also believe that God is a spirit that is within us...I don't think that there is some spiritual being sitting up in the sky letting whomever he believes has been good in Heaven and shutting the door in the faces of us who didn't get saved ....

BUT forreal though, I also believe that there are just some things that need to be left alone....and trying to figure GOD out is one of them... According to God's word the ones that will enter are the ones that believe in him, his word, have faith and love others as he loves us. The worst thing to do is not forgive someone or hate someone and expect God love us anyway graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Damn then I'm truly fvcked cuz there are some mathafvckers I just can't stand... http://deephousepage.com/smilies/devil10.gif graemlins/bolt.gif

[ September 12, 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: MYOR ]

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by gf:
Facts & truths, perceptions & beliefs. Why is it that we have to have something in order to make the day go by. Strip away our gender, race, thought, intelligence, rationalization and the end result is we are nothing, but we cling to something in order to find a purpose to our non-sensical lives. When you finally accept that you are actually nothing, somewhere in that nothing there will actually be something, the only thing is will you be able to identify that it is there and to further my insanity at this hour when you have identified it, you may have to ask whether you have created yet another illusion to give meaning to your life.
On your final breath will you actually find the truth about your life unless you live each day because you have died to yesterday and are unborn to tomorrow.

On that note I will go to sleep graemlins/sleep2.gif Your thoughts echo the early African genius Imhotep and also Socrates. Once we realize we don't know anything, it becomes easier to learn.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
graemlins/sleep2.gif wake up!

the world's going to shit because many of the things in those quotes are being stepped on!!

never mind, go back to bed.... </font>[/QUOTE]I'm glad you said that. At the times when those books were written the world was "going to shit" also. Those books were created for the sole purpose of reigning in the sheeple by instilling "The Fear of God" in them. Religion itself was created out of ignorance and fear. From the Egyptian gods to Zues(SP?) and the gods of Mount Olympus and Odin and Asgardian gods to Jesus Christ. I see no difference. All fairy tales. All the so called enlightened religious zealots kill me. The masses are sheep. graemlins/sleep2.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Any Type of group of people following anything could be called sheep. We all love house music and are on the DHP daily, in which was man-made, have many celebs and legends that we love, admire and friends with. Are we still sheep? Or are we sharing a common bond that we believe and support?

Things that are not understood are usually judged skeptically. Well actually anything that has to do with the way we live our lives is quickly put down because people don't want to believe in anything that won't let them have fun or submit to an authoritive entity. If there was a bible (in which God ordained) that tell us that it is okay to be any way that seems fit, everyone will try to go with that specific religion because there is no judgement there. But as soon as someone sees that there is a possibility that I may not be living my life right, one wants to eliminate the fact that the bible is a book of fairy tales, fear to control, made up to dominate etc. NOW I AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE. I TOO AND OTHERS THAT I KNOW USED TO BELIEVE THAT GOD CAN'T BE THAT CRUEL, HE LOVES ME ANYWAY AND I AM A GOOD PERSON....YADDA, YADDA, YADDA. I AM IN NO WAY JUDGING WHY OTHERS DON'T BELIEVE. I JUST HAD TO GO THROUGH SOME HELL TO FINALLY UNDERSTAND GOD'S WILL.

All I can say is something went wrong in my life and things never worked until I surrendered totally to God and realized that His way is better than my way. I haven't lost a thing believing in God, As a matter of fact I've gained more in the last 3 months that I've ever had in the last 10 years. Peace of Mind, Love for myself and others, prosperity, last but not least Creativity. So once again, if you don't beleive in something don't knock others that do.

[Mack-Williams]

Trying my hardest to stay out of this. :D

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree too. If we examine ourselves honestly, we'd learn more based on factual observance than beliefs taught to us.</font>[/QUOTE]and how is it you came to trust your perceptive capabilities with the blindness you do so as to call everything your mind digests and accepts "truth"?


The more we go by beliefs, the less we go by instinct and push further away from nature itself.you mentioned instinct, HOW ON EARTH CAN INSTINCT BE AN UNDISPUTABLE AND PROVEN WAY TO THE TRUTH?
can you prove instinct has not AND WILL NOT steer you wrong?

you TRUST/BELIEVE in your own instinct. think about it. </font>[/QUOTE]I see your point. I meant to say that the more we go by "religious" belief instead of natural instinct. Instinct can be wrong, but as humans, that's the facility we seem to use less of the older or "smarter" we get. For an infant child or most animals, instinct is all they have and it has been for thousands of years. Moreover, it's interesting how babies and many animals can often sense danger or uneasiness when many adult humans can't.

[rob brito]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
graemlins/sleep2.gif wake up!

the world's going to shit because many of the things in those quotes are being stepped on!!

never mind, go back to bed.... </font>[/QUOTE]I'm glad you said that. At the times when those books were written the world was "going to shit" also. Those books were created for the sole purpose of reigning in the sheeple by instilling "The Fear of God" in them. Religion itself was created out of ignorance and fear. From the Egyptian gods to Zues(SP?) and the gods of Mount Olympus and Odin and Asgardian gods to Jesus Christ. I see no difference. All fairy tales. All the so called enlightened religious zealots kill me. The masses are sheep. graemlins/sleep2.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Any Type of group of people following anything could be called sheep. We all love house music and are on the DHP daily, in which was man-made, have many celebs and legends that we love, admire and friends with. Are we still sheep? Or are we sharing a common bond that we believe and support?

Things that are not understood are usually judged skeptically. Well actually anything that has to do with the way we live our lives is quickly put down because people don't want to believe in anything that won't let them have fun or submit to an authoritive entity. If there was a bible (in which God ordained) that tell us that it is okay to be any way that seems fit, everyone will try to go with that specific religion because there is no judgement there. But as soon as someone sees that there is a possibility that I may not be living my life right, one wants to eliminate the fact that the bible is a book of fairy tales, fear to control, made up to dominate etc. NOW I AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE. I TOO AND OTHERS THAT I KNOW USED TO BELIEVE THAT GOD CAN'T BE THAT CRUEL, HE LOVES ME ANYWAY AND I AM A GOOD PERSON....YADDA, YADDA, YADDA. I AM IN NO WAY JUDGING WHY OTHERS DON'T BELIEVE. I JUST HAD TO GO THROUGH SOME HELL TO FINALLY UNDERSTAND GOD'S WILL.

All I can say is something went wrong in my life and things never worked until I surrendered totally to God and realized that His way is better than my way. I haven't lost a thing believing in God, As a matter of fact I've gained more in the last 3 months that I've ever had in the last 10 years. Peace of Mind, Love for myself and others, prosperity, last but not least Creativity. So once again, if you don't beleive in something don't knock others that do. </font>[/QUOTE]you have put into words all of which i tried to say.

may god bless you.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

I am not knocking anyones belief, but how do we know if we are living our lives right, who tells us what's right and wrong? How do we know murder is wrong or adultery is wrong? And being human, how do we know we are living like humans should live? Once again we are going on what a "man" wrote and not knowing the original source. The bible isn't all literal, there are alot of proverbs, parables that Jesus used as teaching tools, Solomon wrote songs. So you are right the bible isn't to be taken too literal but when it comes to the commandments of God you can't get more literal than that. Without it how does one know that lying, stealing, killing and cheating is wrong? Oh that's right, we are humans that just passed that down through history that told us that these things are wrong. The source isn't important because we are just that great.

I believe that people that don't read the bible without God knowledge shouldn't judge the book because we are putting God in a box and judging who he is as a supreme being.

Once again I respect others right to believe what they want, I would like for once a non-believer to say "Hey if the bible, Jesus, and God is what you believe in, then more power to you. I can't condemn you or praise you because I rather not believe in it." Instead of "What you believe in is wrong, it's was built to control and anyone that follows religion is a sheep." If you don't like judgement, then don't judge.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
graemlins/sleep2.gif wake up!

the world's going to shit because many of the things in those quotes are being stepped on!!

never mind, go back to bed.... </font>[/QUOTE]I'm glad you said that. At the times when those books were written the world was "going to shit" also. Those books were created for the sole purpose of reigning in the sheeple by instilling "The Fear of God" in them. Religion itself was created out of ignorance and fear. From the Egyptian gods to Zues(SP?) and the gods of Mount Olympus and Odin and Asgardian gods to Jesus Christ. I see no difference. All fairy tales. All the so called enlightened religious zealots kill me. The masses are sheep. graemlins/sleep2.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Any Type of group of people following anything could be called sheep. We all love house music and are on the DHP daily, in which was man-made, have many celebs and legends that we love, admire and friends with. Are we still sheep? Or are we sharing a common bond that we believe and support?

Things that are not understood are usually judged skeptically. Well actually anything that has to do with the way we live our lives is quickly put down because people don't want to believe in anything that won't let them have fun or submit to an authoritive entity. If there was a bible (in which God ordained) that tell us that it is okay to be any way that seems fit, everyone will try to go with that specific religion because there is no judgement there. But as soon as someone sees that there is a possibility that I may not be living my life right, one wants to eliminate the fact that the bible is a book of fairy tales, fear to control, made up to dominate etc. NOW I AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE. I TOO AND OTHERS THAT I KNOW USED TO BELIEVE THAT GOD CAN'T BE THAT CRUEL, HE LOVES ME ANYWAY AND I AM A GOOD PERSON....YADDA, YADDA, YADDA. I AM IN NO WAY JUDGING WHY OTHERS DON'T BELIEVE. I JUST HAD TO GO THROUGH SOME HELL TO FINALLY UNDERSTAND GOD'S WILL.

All I can say is something went wrong in my life and things never worked until I surrendered totally to God and realized that His way is better than my way. I haven't lost a thing believing in God, As a matter of fact I've gained more in the last 3 months that I've ever had in the last 10 years. Peace of Mind, Love for myself and others, prosperity, last but not least Creativity. So once again, if you don't beleive in something don't knock others that do. </font>[/QUOTE]Discolady, I do not know your life so please don't take this personal..... But I've seen many people that say that they have found GOD and there life has been going better... But their life would have been going better if they weren't doing bad things.. lying, cheating, stealing, robbing.. If it takes "God" to show you what your doing wrong then that is great...

Just a thought graemlins/conf44.gif

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
[QB]Facts aren't handed down to us. They stand the test of time because they've been proven to be indipsutable evidence toward a particular conclusion that is unversal.1-are you saying everything you learned in school was a result of your own personal experimentation and conclusions? you mean nothing you take as scientific fact (the world is round, the atom can be split, it produces vast amounts of energy when split, black holes dilate time, the universe is expanding away from a focal point millions of times smaller than an atom, time is NOT linear...) was handed down to you? can YOU dj marbll prove these and millions of other facts and claim they were not handed down to you?

2-you, as generations past, are in danger of taking some steps back yourself when your "time proven irrefutable facts" are contradicted by new finds.

it happens every single day as routine.

this is exactly what i mean when i talk of ego destroying or corrupting whatever nature holds as true. you have basically built yourself up to say "this IS and that's it" meanwhile nature has an infinite amount of contradictions waiting to be discovered and you WILL deny it in favour of your pride.

ask einstein. he died a humble man, bewildered by the amount of perplexities the universe held as he dug into the mechanics of our universe. </font>[/QUOTE]First of all, let me clarify what I meant by saying facts aren't handed down to us. I meant that from a religious perspective. For something to be considered fact or the truth, it must be that from the beginning. The universe constantly changing, time not being linear (contrary to popular opinion), the atom being able to be split, nuclear fission and fusion, are all truths that have been discovered relatively recently. But the point is whatever the belief was before these concepts came into fruition was just that -- belief. If a "fact" or truth changes over time, then how can it be considered a fact or truth in the first place?
Science is heavily based on belief too. The difference is scientists tests their beliefs to reach a conclusion that is accepted as fact until it's disproven. Religion "never" tests the beliefs for fear of blaspemy.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Discolady, I do not know your life so please don't take this personal..... But I've seen many people that say that they have found GOD and there life has been going better... But their life would have been going better if they weren't doing bad things.. lying, cheating, stealing, robbing.. If it takes "God" to show you what your doing wrong then that is great...

Just a thought Well, actually "doing bad things" isn't what made me make the choice I made. Disliking myself or not loving myself because bad things happen to me as child is what brought me to God because I didn't understand why someone would treat me so bad. This impacted my life as an adult. I've realized that I was hurting the people close to me because of my own hatred for myself.

Once again without God how do we know what is right or wrong?

Just a thought graemlins/conf44.gif

[ September 12, 2003, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: DiscoLady ]

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by Eric Miles:
I've often struggled.....with religion & church. In my youth, I rejected Christianity due to numerous acts perpetrated upon humanity by "Christians" (i.e. slave trading, Christians calling persons of other religions cannibals & savages while raping their lands & destroying their cultures, racism by the Ku Klux Klan). Also, I found it hard to reconcile my highly scientific way of experiencing the world with religious doctrines & beliefs. For example, how to reconcile evolution with creationism? How to explain the depiction of Jesus in church as a white man with blue eyes when science tells us that humans evolved from primates & that people from that region of the world at that time were brown to dark skinned individuals with woolen hair? I struggled with those things until I received KNOWLEDGE. Many so called "Christians" are straight false-flagging, double-minded individuals practicing blasphemy by merely calling themselves Christians! Through the Word I have learned that you do not need to always shout that you are born again to be a fisher of men...a saviour of souls. Your changed demeanor & the fruits you bear from planting good seeds will draw more people to you than anything else! True believers in Christ acknowledge the daily battles in the Spiritual Realm that occur & fight to kill their flesh of sinful, worldly ways, persuasions and desires. The difference to me is the effort the true followers put up versus those worldly folks who just go with the flow & don't even try to resist temptation. GOD has given us DOMINION over all worldly things & with GOD all things are possible - whether our comparably insignificant human minds can fathom them or not. GOD has blessed man with an ever expanding intellect - science is definitely important. At the same time we still have FREE WILL to believe GOD & follow his word or not....something even GOD's angels do not have the luxury of. I attend Bill Winston's Church - he is an awesome Man of God & I thank him for his guidance & realness...but everyone preaching is NOT of GOD!!!! It is imperative to read the WORD YOURSELF & ask for revelation of the WORD via the HOLY SPIRIT. I have never spoken in tongues but I cannot deny the awesomeness of being in the presence of GOD! I know I am rambling but I just wanted to post this in the event that it might help someone like me, who, for several reasons had the misfortune of not knowing GOD. GOD is real & loves us all so very much! Hell was not meant for man! Hell was meant for Lucifer & the other rebelling angels who once resided with GOD. Heaven will be on Earth.....Earth will be restored to the Paradise it was originally supposed to be before DEATH & SIN entered Earth by way of the original SIN. I guess it can all sound like a fantastic story to some, but call on GOD with all of your heart....SEEK GOD....open your heart to living righteously without sin consciousness...if you fall ask for forgiveness & get back on your walk with GOD & GOD's WORD. Believe me nobody's perfect (I am doing better in a lot of areas in my life)...but we can strive for perfection. Instead of thinking about all of the things you cannot do....think of what you will be able to do with the FAVOR OF GOD IN YOUR LIFE!!!! Blessings to all....I still have a LONG way to go in my walk with GOD but I will never deny GOD! In closing, I would like to pray for more patience, more kindness, more respect & more empathy for ALL MANKIND in the world today. AMEN. Say Eric, you might know some people in my family. I have an aunt who just passed away recently, but she and her husband were attending Bill Winston's church the past couple of years. They're the Arnold family.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I am not knocking anyones belief, but how do we know if we are living our lives right, who tells us what's right and wrong? How do we know murder is wrong or adultery is wrong? And being human, how do we know we are living like humans should live? Once again we are going on what a "man" wrote and not knowing the original source. The bible isn't all literal, there are alot of proverbs, parables that Jesus used as teaching tools, Solomon wrote songs. So you are right the bible isn't to be taken too literal but when it comes to the commandments of God you can't get more literal than that. Without it how does one know that lying, stealing, killing and cheating is wrong? Oh that's right, we are humans that just passed that down through history that told us that these things are wrong. The source isn't important because we are just that great.

I believe that people that don't read the bible without God knowledge shouldn't judge the book because we are putting God in a box and judging who he is as a supreme being.

Once again I respect others right to believe what they want, I would like for once a non-believer to say "Hey if the bible, Jesus, and God is what you believe in, then more power to you. I can't condemn you or praise you because I rather not believe in it." Instead of "What you believe in is wrong, it's was built to control and anyone that follows religion is a sheep." If you don't like judgement, then don't judge. graemlins/tongueout.gif graemlins/tongueout.gif

Well I don't see the difference between a over zealous non-believer and over zealous believer.. We must agree to disagree... Respect their views.. as they should respect yours... I don't question to prove you wrong.. I question so to understand. graemlins/tongueout.gif

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by robs:
"education is a progressive discovery of one's own ignorance." Great quote.
There's an African proverb that says almost the same thing. Socrates said something similar also.

[rob brito]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
Science is heavily based on belief too. The difference is scientists tests their beliefs to reach a conclusion that is accepted as fact until it's disproven. Religion "never" tests the beliefs for fear of blaspemy. religion-does not test anything and dictates dogmas
spirituality-TESTS EVERYTHING THROUGH INTROSPECTION

STOP LUMPING RELIGION IN WITH GODLY PEOPLE-THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME!!!

[rob brito]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
But the point is whatever the belief was before these concepts came into fruition was just that -- belief. If a "fact" or truth changes over time, then how can it be considered a fact or truth in the first place?HELLO?!!

what does that say about you present "facts" my friend? you've just echoed me when i was saying everything should be taken WITH THE GREATEST HUMILITY and knowledge is not a reason to celebrate but humble oneself on more than one front.

peace my friend, i got nothing against yourself or anyone here but it taxes my patience to have to deal with the patronizing time and time again.

as discolady said, just accept us as we accept you, is it really difficult to refrain from calling us "wrong"?

[1SmoothDj]

Originally posted by MYOR:
Another thing.. in that whole conversation .. was That I should FEAR GOD..

MY Question: Why? That is like fearing my mother..

The guys answer: You DARE to compare GOD to your mother. You REALLY NEED to find GOD in your life. I hope GOD Doesn't show you he exist by a tragic means..

MY anwer: WTF does that mean??... The only way for me to believe in a god is by something bad happening to me..


icon_rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif Yeah I love these religion talk.. Ok let me continue my destination to HELL according to MANY graemlins/cool_shades.gif Fell off my chair laughing so damn hard at your reply to Fearing GOD!!
icon_rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif biggrinangel.gif

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
graemlins/sleep2.gif wake up!

the world's going to shit because many of the things in those quotes are being stepped on!!

never mind, go back to bed.... </font>[/QUOTE]I'm glad you said that. At the times when those books were written the world was "going to shit" also. Those books were created for the sole purpose of reigning in the sheeple by instilling "The Fear of God" in them. Religion itself was created out of ignorance and fear. From the Egyptian gods to Zues(SP?) and the gods of Mount Olympus and Odin and Asgardian gods to Jesus Christ. I see no difference. All fairy tales. All the so called enlightened religious zealots kill me. The masses are sheep. graemlins/sleep2.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Any Type of group of people following anything could be called sheep. We all love house music and are on the DHP daily, in which was man-made, have many celebs and legends that we love, admire and friends with. Are we still sheep? Or are we sharing a common bond that we believe and support?

Things that are not understood are usually judged skeptically. Well actually anything that has to do with the way we live our lives is quickly put down because people don't want to believe in anything that won't let them have fun or submit to an authoritive entity. If there was a bible (in which God ordained) that tell us that it is okay to be any way that seems fit, everyone will try to go with that specific religion because there is no judgement there. But as soon as someone sees that there is a possibility that I may not be living my life right, one wants to eliminate the fact that the bible is a book of fairy tales, fear to control, made up to dominate etc. NOW I AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE. I TOO AND OTHERS THAT I KNOW USED TO BELIEVE THAT GOD CAN'T BE THAT CRUEL, HE LOVES ME ANYWAY AND I AM A GOOD PERSON....YADDA, YADDA, YADDA. I AM IN NO WAY JUDGING WHY OTHERS DON'T BELIEVE. I JUST HAD TO GO THROUGH SOME HELL TO FINALLY UNDERSTAND GOD'S WILL.

All I can say is something went wrong in my life and things never worked until I surrendered totally to God and realized that His way is better than my way. I haven't lost a thing believing in God, As a matter of fact I've gained more in the last 3 months that I've ever had in the last 10 years. Peace of Mind, Love for myself and others, prosperity, last but not least Creativity. So once again, if you don't beleive in something don't knock others that do. </font>[/QUOTE]Problem with your argument is that I don't believe house music exists when I have never heard it. I don't tell people that techno is not house when I have never heard it. I don't tell people they are doomed to eternal damnation because they don't believe in deep house music. People are sheep because they blindly follow this book of fairy tales with not proof what so ever that this book is ordained by god. Other than that is what they have been told. And your assertion that I or anyone else who has not embraced your belief just does not understand also makes you sheep. I understand. I reject. It's bullshit.

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I am not knocking anyones belief, but how do we know if we are living our lives right, who tells us what's right and wrong? How do we know murder is wrong or adultery is wrong? And being human, how do we know we are living like humans should live? Once again we are going on what a "man" wrote and not knowing the original source. The bible isn't all literal, there are alot of proverbs, parables that Jesus used as teaching tools, Solomon wrote songs. So you are right the bible isn't to be taken too literal but when it comes to the commandments of God you can't get more literal than that. Without it how does one know that lying, stealing, killing and cheating is wrong? Oh that's right, we are humans that just passed that down through history that told us that these things are wrong. The source isn't important because we are just that great.

I believe that people that don't read the bible without God knowledge shouldn't judge the book because we are putting God in a box and judging who he is as a supreme being.

Once again I respect others right to believe what they want, I would like for once a non-believer to say "Hey if the bible, Jesus, and God is what you believe in, then more power to you. I can't condemn you or praise you because I rather not believe in it." Instead of "What you believe in is wrong, it's was built to control and anyone that follows religion is a sheep." If you don't like judgement, then don't judge. So why is your book the defacto standard roadmap and not the quran? Your entire argument is flawed and skewed towards your own personal beliefs. So all Muslims, Jews, Hindus and people who have never heard of Jesus or your book are doomed to hell? Give me a break. graemlins/sleep2.gif

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
Science is heavily based on belief too. The difference is scientists tests their beliefs to reach a conclusion that is accepted as fact until it's disproven. Religion "never" tests the beliefs for fear of blaspemy. religion-does not test anything and dictates dogmas
spirituality-TESTS EVERYTHING THROUGH INTROSPECTION

STOP LUMPING RELIGION IN WITH GODLY PEOPLE-THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME!!! </font>[/QUOTE]shole don't!

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I am not knocking anyones belief, but how do we know if we are living our lives right, who tells us what's right and wrong? How do we know murder is wrong or adultery is wrong? And being human, how do we know we are living like humans should live? Once again we are going on what a "man" wrote and not knowing the original source. The bible isn't all literal, there are alot of proverbs, parables that Jesus used as teaching tools, Solomon wrote songs. So you are right the bible isn't to be taken too literal but when it comes to the commandments of God you can't get more literal than that. Without it how does one know that lying, stealing, killing and cheating is wrong? Oh that's right, we are humans that just passed that down through history that told us that these things are wrong. The source isn't important because we are just that great.

I believe that people that don't read the bible without God knowledge shouldn't judge the book because we are putting God in a box and judging who he is as a supreme being.

Once again I respect others right to believe what they want, I would like for once a non-believer to say "Hey if the bible, Jesus, and God is what you believe in, then more power to you. I can't condemn you or praise you because I rather not believe in it." Instead of "What you believe in is wrong, it's was built to control and anyone that follows religion is a sheep." If you don't like judgement, then don't judge. The reason humans know adultery, murder, stealing, etc. are wrong is because they intefere with the positive progression of the human spirit. These concepts were in place long before the Bible. The 47 Confessions of Ma'at existed thousands of years before the Bible. So did the Metu Netcher (Divine Speech), the Enuma Elish, The Writings of Ptah, The Husia, The Book of Coming Forth by Day and By Night, and even the Dead Sea Scrolls. The very Bible that most people read today (King James version) is at least the tenth translation from the original Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek texts. So while I agree with many of the concepts in the Bible, it's not the end-all be-all text because many books came before it, and whose to say those books are wrong, especially when many stories in the Bible cmae from the older texts (ie, The Flood Story, the story of the laws being given to the people, the story of a crucified savior who rose again)?

[rob brito]

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

"The only real valuable thing is intuition."

"The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility."

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education."

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school."

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."


-all quotes by Albert Einstein.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
graemlins/sleep2.gif wake up!

the world's going to shit because many of the things in those quotes are being stepped on!!

never mind, go back to bed.... </font>[/QUOTE]I'm glad you said that. At the times when those books were written the world was "going to shit" also. Those books were created for the sole purpose of reigning in the sheeple by instilling "The Fear of God" in them. Religion itself was created out of ignorance and fear. From the Egyptian gods to Zues(SP?) and the gods of Mount Olympus and Odin and Asgardian gods to Jesus Christ. I see no difference. All fairy tales. All the so called enlightened religious zealots kill me. The masses are sheep. graemlins/sleep2.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Any Type of group of people following anything could be called sheep. We all love house music and are on the DHP daily, in which was man-made, have many celebs and legends that we love, admire and friends with. Are we still sheep? Or are we sharing a common bond that we believe and support?

Things that are not understood are usually judged skeptically. Well actually anything that has to do with the way we live our lives is quickly put down because people don't want to believe in anything that won't let them have fun or submit to an authoritive entity. If there was a bible (in which God ordained) that tell us that it is okay to be any way that seems fit, everyone will try to go with that specific religion because there is no judgement there. But as soon as someone sees that there is a possibility that I may not be living my life right, one wants to eliminate the fact that the bible is a book of fairy tales, fear to control, made up to dominate etc. NOW I AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE. I TOO AND OTHERS THAT I KNOW USED TO BELIEVE THAT GOD CAN'T BE THAT CRUEL, HE LOVES ME ANYWAY AND I AM A GOOD PERSON....YADDA, YADDA, YADDA. I AM IN NO WAY JUDGING WHY OTHERS DON'T BELIEVE. I JUST HAD TO GO THROUGH SOME HELL TO FINALLY UNDERSTAND GOD'S WILL.

All I can say is something went wrong in my life and things never worked until I surrendered totally to God and realized that His way is better than my way. I haven't lost a thing believing in God, As a matter of fact I've gained more in the last 3 months that I've ever had in the last 10 years. Peace of Mind, Love for myself and others, prosperity, last but not least Creativity. So once again, if you don't beleive in something don't knock others that do. </font>[/QUOTE]Problem with your argument is that I don't believe house music exists when I have never heard it. I don't tell people that techno is not house when I have never heard it. I don't tell people they are doomed to eternal damnation because they don't believe in deep house music. People are sheep because they blindly follow this book of fairy tales with not proof what so ever that this book is ordained by god. Other than that is what they have been told. And your assertion that I or anyone else who has not embraced your belief just does not understand also makes you sheep. I understand. I reject. It's bullshit. </font>[/QUOTE]Didn't I say this????

This book is not meant to be taken so literally....but if you can follow this book and live your life according to every word of this book instead of using the Bible as a guide in the way in which we should live our lives...then more power to you...but I ask...there are so many versions of bibles how do you know which one is the correct one....

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I am not knocking anyones belief, but how do we know if we are living our lives right, who tells us what's right and wrong? How do we know murder is wrong or adultery is wrong? And being human, how do we know we are living like humans should live? Once again we are going on what a "man" wrote and not knowing the original source. The bible isn't all literal, there are alot of proverbs, parables that Jesus used as teaching tools, Solomon wrote songs. So you are right the bible isn't to be taken too literal but when it comes to the commandments of God you can't get more literal than that. Without it how does one know that lying, stealing, killing and cheating is wrong? Oh that's right, we are humans that just passed that down through history that told us that these things are wrong. The source isn't important because we are just that great.

I believe that people that don't read the bible without God knowledge shouldn't judge the book because we are putting God in a box and judging who he is as a supreme being.

Once again I respect others right to believe what they want, I would like for once a non-believer to say "Hey if the bible, Jesus, and God is what you believe in, then more power to you. I can't condemn you or praise you because I rather not believe in it." Instead of "What you believe in is wrong, it's was built to control and anyone that follows religion is a sheep." If you don't like judgement, then don't judge. The reason humans know adultery, murder, stealing, etc. are wrong is because they intefere with the positive progression of the human spirit. These concepts were in place long before the Bible. The 47 Confessions of Ma'at existed thousands of years before the Bible. So did the Metu Netcher (Divine Speech), the Enuma Elish, The Writings of Ptah, The Husia, The Book of Coming Forth by Day and By Night, and even the Dead Sea Scrolls. The very Bible that most people read today (King James version) is at least the tenth translation from the original Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek texts. So while I agree with many of the concepts in the Bible, it's not the end-all be-all text because many books came before it, and whose to say those books are wrong, especially when many stories in the Bible cmae from the older texts (ie, The Flood Story, the story of the laws being given to the people, the story of a crucified savior who rose again)?

[rob brito]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
Problem with your argument is that I don't believe house music exists when I have never heard it. I don't tell people that techno is not house when I have never heard it. I don't tell people they are doomed to eternal damnation because they don't believe in deep house music. People are sheep because they blindly follow this book of fairy tales with not proof what so ever that this book is ordained by god. Other than that is what they have been told. And your assertion that I or anyone else who has not embraced your belief just does not understand also makes you sheep. I understand. I reject. It's bullshit. "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

-Albert Einstein

[MYOR]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I am not knocking anyones belief, but how do we know if we are living our lives right, who tells us what's right and wrong? How do we know murder is wrong or adultery is wrong? And being human, how do we know we are living like humans should live? Once again we are going on what a "man" wrote and not knowing the original source. The bible isn't all literal, there are alot of proverbs, parables that Jesus used as teaching tools, Solomon wrote songs. So you are right the bible isn't to be taken too literal but when it comes to the commandments of God you can't get more literal than that. Without it how does one know that lying, stealing, killing and cheating is wrong? Oh that's right, we are humans that just passed that down through history that told us that these things are wrong. The source isn't important because we are just that great.

I believe that people that don't read the bible without God knowledge shouldn't judge the book because we are putting God in a box and judging who he is as a supreme being.

Once again I respect others right to believe what they want, I would like for once a non-believer to say "Hey if the bible, Jesus, and God is what you believe in, then more power to you. I can't condemn you or praise you because I rather not believe in it." Instead of "What you believe in is wrong, it's was built to control and anyone that follows religion is a sheep." If you don't like judgement, then don't judge. The reason humans know adultery, murder, stealing, etc. are wrong is because they intefere with the positive progression of the human spirit. These concepts were in place long before the Bible. The 47 Confessions of Ma'at existed thousands of years before the Bible. So did the Metu Netcher (Divine Speech), the Enuma Elish, The Writings of Ptah, The Husia, The Book of Coming Forth by Day and By Night, and even the Dead Sea Scrolls. The very Bible that most people read today (King James version) is at least the tenth translation from the original Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek texts. So while I agree with many of the concepts in the Bible, it's not the end-all be-all text because many books came before it, and whose to say those books are wrong, especially when many stories in the Bible cmae from the older texts (ie, The Flood Story, the story of the laws being given to the people, the story of a crucified savior who rose again)? </font>[/QUOTE]The reason humans know adultery, murder, stealing, etc. are wrong is because they intefere with the positive progression of the human spirit.

The reason why we think these things are wrong is because we were told they were..

How did god say adultery is bad when marriage was created in 1891..

Murder.. well i think i'll leave that alone.. biggrinangel.gif

Stealing.. If my baby is hungry why is it so wrong for me to steal some food...

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I am not knocking anyones belief, but how do we know if we are living our lives right, who tells us what's right and wrong? How do we know murder is wrong or adultery is wrong? And being human, how do we know we are living like humans should live? Once again we are going on what a "man" wrote and not knowing the original source. The bible isn't all literal, there are alot of proverbs, parables that Jesus used as teaching tools, Solomon wrote songs. So you are right the bible isn't to be taken too literal but when it comes to the commandments of God you can't get more literal than that. Without it how does one know that lying, stealing, killing and cheating is wrong? Oh that's right, we are humans that just passed that down through history that told us that these things are wrong. The source isn't important because we are just that great.

I believe that people that don't read the bible without God knowledge shouldn't judge the book because we are putting God in a box and judging who he is as a supreme being.

Once again I respect others right to believe what they want, I would like for once a non-believer to say "Hey if the bible, Jesus, and God is what you believe in, then more power to you. I can't condemn you or praise you because I rather not believe in it." Instead of "What you believe in is wrong, it's was built to control and anyone that follows religion is a sheep." If you don't like judgement, then don't judge. The reason humans know adultery, murder, stealing, etc. are wrong is because they intefere with the positive progression of the human spirit. These concepts were in place long before the Bible. The 47 Confessions of Ma'at existed thousands of years before the Bible. So did the Metu Netcher (Divine Speech), the Enuma Elish, The Writings of Ptah, The Husia, The Book of Coming Forth by Day and By Night, and even the Dead Sea Scrolls. The very Bible that most people read today (King James version) is at least the tenth translation from the original Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek texts. So while I agree with many of the concepts in the Bible, it's not the end-all be-all text because many books came before it, and whose to say those books are wrong, especially when many stories in the Bible cmae from the older texts (ie, The Flood Story, the story of the laws being given to the people, the story of a crucified savior who rose again)? </font>[/QUOTE]The reason humans know adultery, murder, stealing, etc. are wrong is because they intefere with the positive progression of the human spirit.

The reason why we think these things are wrong is because we were told they were..

How did god say adultery is bad when marriage was created in 1891..

Murder.. well i think i'll leave that alone.. biggrinangel.gif

Stealing.. If my baby is hungry why is it so wrong for me to steal some food... </font>[/QUOTE]Everyone should read this...twice.

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
Science is heavily based on belief too. The difference is scientists tests their beliefs to reach a conclusion that is accepted as fact until it's disproven. Religion "never" tests the beliefs for fear of blaspemy. religion-does not test anything and dictates dogmas
spirituality-TESTS EVERYTHING THROUGH INTROSPECTION

STOP LUMPING RELIGION IN WITH GODLY PEOPLE-THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME!!! </font>[/QUOTE]I never lumped religion with godly people or spirituality. You just initially agrred with what said and then accused me of putting spirituality and religion in the same boat. I never did any such thing. Religion does not equal spirituality.

[rob brito]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Stealing.. If my baby is hungry why is it so wrong for me to steal some food... Everyone should read this...twice. [/QB][/QUOTE]

i would probably do the same thing....but remember you just may be doing more harm than good. we just don't know how this may affect the person we are stealing this from.

[And]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Belief is a disease. at the end of the day IF we examine ourselves honestly, everything we "know" is based on belief. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree. There are those who live mindfully who would argue this with you. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree too. If we examine ourselves honestly, we'd learn more based on factual observance than beliefs taught to us. The more we go by beliefs, the less we go by instinct and push further away from nature itself. </font>[/QUOTE]You write this as if our "factual observances" can't be the basis of our beliefs. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm sorry. That was the exact oppsite of my intention. What I meant was exactly what you said. Factual observance SHOULD be the basis of belief, not unwarranted beliefs handed down that have yet to be proven. </font>[/QUOTE]Way late in responding on this and haven't read beyond this point but I had it the other way around. I think the relationship can go both ways. Before a belief becomes "fact" what is it? An idea, a hunch, a feeling, a lucky clue. Einstein probably did go, "well to me it is" what he discovered, tested and we now buy I maintain started off as a belief. Ehh ... smile.gif
On the factual observance part ... What's the guarantee that we do see the same things? Do you really see the colour we call orange the same way I do? I guess because I think this way, I lean towards the beliefs over facts view.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Stealing.. If my baby is hungry why is it so wrong for me to steal some food... Everyone should read this...twice. </font>[/QUOTE]i would probably do the same thing....but remember you just may be doing more harm than good. we just don't know how this may affect the person we are stealing this from. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Ok lets just say I steal this bread from a rich wealthy family.. that will throw away the food anyway... It is still stealing.. and supposedly still bad..

Or lets just say... I take notice to just steal enough for my child to eat.. I'm still stealing.. And according to the bible its wrong..

[Moksha]

It's cute when children believe in goblins, dragons, faries and other imaginary creatures. And, it is kind of understandable that in the early years of human society, before the rise of reason, adults believed in various myths to explain phenomona beyond their understanding.

But when grown people, who in this day and age should have some ability for rational thought, believe in invisible superbeings...it should be seen as a mental disorder. It is delusional and very dangerous to mankind.

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
It's cute when children believe in goblins, dragons, faries and other imaginary creatures. And, it is kind of understandable that in the early years of human society, before the rise of reason, adults believed in various myths to explain phenomona beyond their understanding.

But when grown people, who in this day and age should have some ability for rational thought, believe in invisible superbeings...it should be seen as a mental disorder. It is delusional and very dangerous to mankind. Bingo!

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
But the point is whatever the belief was before these concepts came into fruition was just that -- belief. If a "fact" or truth changes over time, then how can it be considered a fact or truth in the first place?HELLO?!!

what does that say about you present "facts" my friend? you've just echoed me when i was saying everything should be taken WITH THE GREATEST HUMILITY and knowledge is not a reason to celebrate but humble oneself on more than one front.

peace my friend, i got nothing against yourself or anyone here but it taxes my patience to have to deal with the patronizing time and time again.

as discolady said, just accept us as we accept you, is it really difficult to refrain from calling us "wrong"? </font>[/QUOTE]My brother, I'm not trying to patronize you. I was merely trying to show the difference between fact and belief and trying to show my perspective based on the little understanding I have dealing with religion, facts, belief, and truth. I NEVER said you were wrong. In fact, I find myself agreeing with you more often than not. So I don't understand where the hostility is coming from. We're having an intelligent discussion on a subject considered highly taboo (along with politics and sex) that will trigger strong emotions in people. So I can understand how people will get charged up, but not when I agree with you. I'm not judging you, please don't judge me based on points I'm tyring to make. I just feel like George Carlin when he said "the eleventh commandment should have been 'thy shall keep thy religion to thyself'".

[rob brito]

Originally posted by MYOR:
Or lets just say... I take notice to just steal enough for my child to eat.. I'm still stealing.. And according to the bible its wrong.. it's wrong from the point of view that you may not be putting yourself in the other person's shoes...yes they're rich but unknown to you they're about to declare bankruptcy and be left with nothing.

graemlins/conf44.gif

[ September 12, 2003, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: robs ]

[MYOR]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Stealing.. If my baby is hungry why is it so wrong for me to steal some food... Everyone should read this...twice. </font>[/QUOTE]i would probably do the same thing....but remember you just may be doing more harm than good. we just don't know how this may affect the person we are stealing this from. </font>[/QUOTE]Ok lets just say I steal this bread from a rich wealthy family.. that will throw away the food anyway... It is still stealing.. and supposedly still bad..

Or lets just say... I take notice to just steal enough for my child to eat.. I'm still stealing.. And according to the bible its wrong.. </font>[/QUOTE]it's wrong from the point of view that you may not be putting yourself in the other person's shoes...yes they're rich but unknown to you they're about to declare bankruptcy and be left with nothing.

graemlins/conf44.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]

Rob sorry to say but your reaching here.. Its wrong because we were told it was....

[rob brito]

Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
It's cute when children believe in goblins, dragons, faries and other imaginary creatures. And, it is kind of understandable that in the early years of human society, before the rise of reason, adults believed in various myths to explain phenomona beyond their understanding.

But when grown people, who in this day and age should have some ability for rational thought, believe in invisible superbeings...it should be seen as a mental disorder. It is delusional and very dangerous to mankind. "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

-Albert Einstein

einstein was one crazy son of a bitch... graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
It's cute when children believe in goblins, dragons, faries and other imaginary creatures. And, it is kind of understandable that in the early years of human society, before the rise of reason, adults believed in various myths to explain phenomona beyond their understanding.

But when grown people, who in this day and age should have some ability for rational thought, believe in invisible superbeings...it should be seen as a mental disorder. It is delusional and very dangerous to mankind. okay wait a minute there is absolutely nothing wrong in believing in whatever you choose. I say if you believe God sits high and mighty in the sky and that belief helps you to be a better living human being...then so be it...I have absolutely no problem with that and neither should you...the problem is when you begin to believe that your belief is better than mine...I believe in God because there is no way in hell in my honest opinion that human beings just dropped out of the sky...shit where did the sky come from...I humble myself by believing that there is something far more greater than man....but I believe it is extremely arrogant, costly, dangerous and ultimately devastaing for man to try to figure God out and quote his/her/it words and write books about him/her/it...This is where faith comes into play...

Our ancestors are very spiritual being and there is absolutely nothing crazy about spirituality...

[rob brito]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Stealing.. If my baby is hungry why is it so wrong for me to steal some food... Everyone should read this...twice. </font>[/QUOTE]i would probably do the same thing....but remember you just may be doing more harm than good. we just don't know how this may affect the person we are stealing this from. </font>[/QUOTE]Ok lets just say I steal this bread from a rich wealthy family.. that will throw away the food anyway... It is still stealing.. and supposedly still bad..

Or lets just say... I take notice to just steal enough for my child to eat.. I'm still stealing.. And according to the bible its wrong.. </font>[/QUOTE]it's wrong from the point of view that you may not be putting yourself in the other person's shoes...yes they're rich but unknown to you they're about to declare bankruptcy and be left with nothing.

graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Rob sorry to say but your reaching here.. Its wrong because we were told it was.... [/QB][/QUOTE]

reaching for what CAN happen...we just don't know how we can affect each other unless we really sit down and at least TRY to live conscientiously.

[Koffy Brown]

what in the heck does their wealth have to do with you stealing???

regardless of reasons for doing so if it's wrong it's wrong...

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Problem with your argument is that I don't believe house music exists when I have never heard it. I don't tell people that techno is not house when I have never heard it. I don't tell people they are doomed to eternal damnation because they don't believe in deep house music. People are sheep because they blindly follow this book of fairy tales with not proof what so ever that this book is ordained by god. Other than that is what they have been told. And your assertion that I or anyone else who has not embraced your belief just does not understand also makes you sheep. I understand. I reject. It's bullshit.
I understand your point, and not trying to force anything on unbelievers. It's not up to me to make you believe. I will say this "THIS SHEEP LOVES YOU ANYWAY" As a matter of fact while I am studying the book of fables and fairytales, I will make sure to get a prayer in for you to the "make-believe God" I serve graemlins/bighug.gif

To Konbit: While I am praying, I will go and talk to a doctor about my mental disorder to wanting to believe in a power higher than man. After all man put himself here, and haven't figured out how to solve simple problems graemlins/conf44.gif

[ September 12, 2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: DiscoLady ]

[And]

Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
It's cute when children believe in goblins, dragons, faries and other imaginary creatures. And, it is kind of understandable that in the early years of human society, before the rise of reason, adults believed in various myths to explain phenomona beyond their understanding.

But when grown people, who in this day and age should have some ability for rational thought, believe in invisible superbeings...it should be seen as a mental disorder. It is delusional and very dangerous to mankind. As this post also could be considered.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Stealing.. If my baby is hungry why is it so wrong for me to steal some food... Everyone should read this...twice. </font>[/QUOTE]i would probably do the same thing....but remember you just may be doing more harm than good. we just don't know how this may affect the person we are stealing this from. </font>[/QUOTE]Ok lets just say I steal this bread from a rich wealthy family.. that will throw away the food anyway... It is still stealing.. and supposedly still bad..

Or lets just say... I take notice to just steal enough for my child to eat.. I'm still stealing.. And according to the bible its wrong.. </font>[/QUOTE]it's wrong from the point of view that you may not be putting yourself in the other person's shoes...yes they're rich but unknown to you they're about to declare bankruptcy and be left with nothing.

graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Rob sorry to say but your reaching here.. Its wrong because we were told it was.... </font>[/QUOTE]reaching for what CAN happen...we just don't know how we can affect each other unless we really sit down and at least TRY to live conscientiously. [/QB][/QUOTE]

ok Whatever CAN happen in the above scenerio.. I don't think would be as bad as your child dying of starvation... Ohh btw... I conscientiously picked 2 scenerio because the where able to afford to loose a piece of bread..

Anyway by todays standards when can't a multi-million dollar person not afford to lose a loaf of bread.... Expecially with how bankruptcy is used.... icon_rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif icon_rofl.gif

[MYOR]

Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
what in the heck does their wealth have to do with you stealing???

regardless of reasons for doing so if it's wrong it's wrong... Can you explain to me exactly why it wrong???
And the wealthe has alot to do with it.. because i'm trying to say that I wouldn't steal from someone that is in my situation.. to help feed my child.. I will steal from those that can afford it..

So then again why is it wrong.. B/c the law says.. b/c the bible says..??

[djmarbll]

Ok. Maybe I'm way out in left field, but I'm supposed to believe that morality wasn't created until the Bible? I cannot and will not accept this argument. If that's the case then how were the Kemetic dynasties, the Sumerians, the Phoenicians, The Olmecs, and many other civilizations that predate the Bible able to prosper? The ability of the human spirit goes way beyond aforementioned rules or morality, otherwise we as humans wouldn't be able to get past horrendous tragedies (ie, the Middle Passage "Maafa", the Holocaust, 9/11, etc.).

It is my belief that civilizations that predate the Bible had some type of moral code to live by. Carved in stone in Kemet (KMT- "land of the Blacks"), what the Greeks later called Egypt (land of the sun-burnt people) are the 47 Confessions of Ma'at where it was believed you had to quote and live by these morals to get into "heaven". And in doing so, your heart was measured against a feather by Djhuti. This may be African folklore, but it still shows some type of moral code in existence way before the Bible.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
Ok. Maybe I'm way out in left field, but I'm supposed to believe that morality wasn't created until the Bible? I cannot and will not accept this argument. If that's the case then how were the Kemetic dynasties, the Sumerians, the Phoenicians, The Olmecs, and many other civilizations that predate the Bible able to prosper? The ability of the human spirit goes way beyond aforementioned rules or morality, otherwise we as humans wouldn't be able to get past horrendous tragedies (ie, the Middle Passage "Maafa", the Holocaust, 9/11, etc.).

It is my belief that civilizations that predate the Bible had some type of moral code to live by. Carved in stone in Kemet (KMT- "land of the Blacks"), what the Greeks later called Egypt (land of the sun-burnt people) are the 47 Confessions of Ma'at where it was believed you had to quote and live by these morals to get into "heaven". And in doing so, your heart was measured against a feather by Djhuti. This may be African folklore, but it still shows some type of moral code in existence way before the Bible. Before the bible God did speak to prophets and man. So that is how people knew about morales ;) While studying history, study more on the prophets of that day. How else could the bible be written? Once again people are boxing God's ability to communicate to his creation

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Problem with your argument is that I don't believe house music exists when I have never heard it. I don't tell people that techno is not house when I have never heard it. I don't tell people they are doomed to eternal damnation because they don't believe in deep house music. People are sheep because they blindly follow this book of fairy tales with not proof what so ever that this book is ordained by god. Other than that is what they have been told. And your assertion that I or anyone else who has not embraced your belief just does not understand also makes you sheep. I understand. I reject. It's bullshit.
I understand your point, and not trying to force anything on unbelievers. It's not up to me to make you believe. I will say this "THIS SHEEP LOVES YOU ANYWAY" As a matter of fact while I am studying the book of fables and fairytales, I will make sure to get a prayer in for you to the "make-believe God" I serve graemlins/bighug.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Not saying your god is make believe. Not at all. What I'm saying is that the belief system that the Christian religion is based on is severely flawed. As are pretty much all the others. The "If you don't believe what I believe you're going to Hell" nonsense. Organized religion is a sham. Designed to control.

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
It's cute when children believe in goblins, dragons, faries and other imaginary creatures. And, it is kind of understandable that in the early years of human society, before the rise of reason, adults believed in various myths to explain phenomona beyond their understanding.

But when grown people, who in this day and age should have some ability for rational thought, believe in invisible superbeings...it should be seen as a mental disorder. It is delusional and very dangerous to mankind. okay wait a minute there is absolutely nothing wrong in believing in whatever you choose. I say if you believe God sits high and mighty in the sky and that belief helps you to be a better living human being...then so be it...I have absolutely no problem with that and neither should you...the problem is when you begin to believe that your belief is better than mine...I believe in God because there is no way in hell in my honest opinion that human beings just dropped out of the sky...shit where did the sky come from...I humble myself by believing that there is something far more greater than man....but I believe it is extremely arrogant, costly, dangerous and ultimately devastaing for man to try to figure God out and quote his/her/it words and write books about him/her/it...This is where faith comes into play...

Our ancestors are very spiritual being and there is absolutely nothing crazy about spirituality... </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with you whole-heartedly. More people have been killed over religion than by any other reason. And I believe we wouldn't have made it this far without the spirit of our ancestors.

[TAD]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Problem with your argument is that I don't believe house music exists when I have never heard it. I don't tell people that techno is not house when I have never heard it. I don't tell people they are doomed to eternal damnation because they don't believe in deep house music. People are sheep because they blindly follow this book of fairy tales with not proof what so ever that this book is ordained by god. Other than that is what they have been told. And your assertion that I or anyone else who has not embraced your belief just does not understand also makes you sheep. I understand. I reject. It's bullshit.
I understand your point, and not trying to force anything on unbelievers. It's not up to me to make you believe. I will say this "THIS SHEEP LOVES YOU ANYWAY" As a matter of fact while I am studying the book of fables and fairytales, I will make sure to get a prayer in for you to the "make-believe God" I serve graemlins/bighug.gif

To Konbit: While I am praying, I will go and talk to a doctor about my mental disorder to wanting to believe in a power higher than man. After all man put himself here, and haven't figured out how to solve simple problems graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]so bush is sane when he quotes god? i think this is what Konbit is alluding to. when power get into the wrong hands, the use of religion & god can be a dangerous tool. of course most people don't have the power, but if one did & their motives were evil, then god always shows up at their doorstep, cloaked of course.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
what in the heck does their wealth have to do with you stealing???

regardless of reasons for doing so if it's wrong it's wrong... Can you explain to me exactly why it wrong???
And the wealthe has alot to do with it.. because i'm trying to say that I wouldn't steal from someone that is in my situation.. to help feed my child.. I will steal from those that can afford it..

So then again why is it wrong.. B/c the law says.. b/c the bible says..?? </font>[/QUOTE]hell yes because the law says if for no other reason...

and...you wouldn't want someone stealing from you...more than likely the RICH person would probably GIVE you food or money to feed your child if you would only ASK...it's wrong because it is...

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Problem with your argument is that I don't believe house music exists when I have never heard it. I don't tell people that techno is not house when I have never heard it. I don't tell people they are doomed to eternal damnation because they don't believe in deep house music. People are sheep because they blindly follow this book of fairy tales with not proof what so ever that this book is ordained by god. Other than that is what they have been told. And your assertion that I or anyone else who has not embraced your belief just does not understand also makes you sheep. I understand. I reject. It's bullshit.
I understand your point, and not trying to force anything on unbelievers. It's not up to me to make you believe. I will say this "THIS SHEEP LOVES YOU ANYWAY" As a matter of fact while I am studying the book of fables and fairytales, I will make sure to get a prayer in for you to the "make-believe God" I serve graemlins/bighug.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Not saying your god is make believe. Not at all. What I'm saying is that the belief system that the Christian religion is based on is severely flawed. As are pretty much all the others. The "If you don't believe what I believe you're going to Hell" nonsense. Organized religion is a sham. Designed to control. </font>[/QUOTE]It's very wrong to control people that are killing, molesting, stealing etc. Yep that's it. And why in the world someone that has lived their life right go to a same place as someone like Herod or Hitler after death? What was is the point anyway.

I once never said who would be going to Hell or Heaven, I personally don't know. I am just going on what I've learned through the bible and the Hebrew bible. So people that have issues with God and the bible it's is on them. I could care less what the Hell someone else that don't believe and won't hear have to say. My job is to live my life, love unconditionally and serve God the best way I know how. The difference between me, non-beleivers and the religious is: I love wisdom and increasing my knowledge of self. In which some people in this day lack :rolleyes: So excuse me for wanting to expand myself through through what I believe God will have me to do graemlins/conf44.gif

[MYOR]

Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
what in the heck does their wealth have to do with you stealing???

regardless of reasons for doing so if it's wrong it's wrong... Can you explain to me exactly why it wrong???
And the wealthe has alot to do with it.. because i'm trying to say that I wouldn't steal from someone that is in my situation.. to help feed my child.. I will steal from those that can afford it..

So then again why is it wrong.. B/c the law says.. b/c the bible says..?? </font>[/QUOTE]hell yes because the law says if for no other reason...

and...you wouldn't want someone stealing from you...more than likely the RICH person would probably GIVE you food or money to feed your child if you would only ASK...it's wrong because it is... </font>[/QUOTE]ok like I said its wrong because man made it so..
You just said its wrong for a woman to do anything she has to do feed her child..

In my life.. I believe its worse for a woman not to do anything and everything, regardless of what the laws of man say, to feed her child..

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Problem with your argument is that I don't believe house music exists when I have never heard it. I don't tell people that techno is not house when I have never heard it. I don't tell people they are doomed to eternal damnation because they don't believe in deep house music. People are sheep because they blindly follow this book of fairy tales with not proof what so ever that this book is ordained by god. Other than that is what they have been told. And your assertion that I or anyone else who has not embraced your belief just does not understand also makes you sheep. I understand. I reject. It's bullshit.
I understand your point, and not trying to force anything on unbelievers. It's not up to me to make you believe. I will say this "THIS SHEEP LOVES YOU ANYWAY" As a matter of fact while I am studying the book of fables and fairytales, I will make sure to get a prayer in for you to the "make-believe God" I serve graemlins/bighug.gif

To Konbit: While I am praying, I will go and talk to a doctor about my mental disorder to wanting to believe in a power higher than man. After all man put himself here, and haven't figured out how to solve simple problems graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]so bush is sane when he quotes god? i think this is what Konbit is alluding to. when power get into the wrong hands, the use of religion & god can be a dangerous tool. of course most people don't have the power, but if one did & their motives were evil, then god always shows up at their doorstep, cloaked of course. </font>[/QUOTE]Once again I cannot speak for people that have other motives when they are quoting God. People use God as a racket or to back up their argument to be right. They have to give in to their conscience about their motives. But you cannot the people that are genuine in their following God and his word.

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
Ok. Maybe I'm way out in left field, but I'm supposed to believe that morality wasn't created until the Bible? I cannot and will not accept this argument. If that's the case then how were the Kemetic dynasties, the Sumerians, the Phoenicians, The Olmecs, and many other civilizations that predate the Bible able to prosper? The ability of the human spirit goes way beyond aforementioned rules or morality, otherwise we as humans wouldn't be able to get past horrendous tragedies (ie, the Middle Passage "Maafa", the Holocaust, 9/11, etc.).

It is my belief that civilizations that predate the Bible had some type of moral code to live by. Carved in stone in Kemet (KMT- "land of the Blacks"), what the Greeks later called Egypt (land of the sun-burnt people) are the 47 Confessions of Ma'at where it was believed you had to quote and live by these morals to get into "heaven". And in doing so, your heart was measured against a feather by Djhuti. This may be African folklore, but it still shows some type of moral code in existence way before the Bible. Before the bible God did speak to prophets and man. So that is how people knew about morales ;) While studying history, study more on the prophets of that day. How else could the bible be written? Once again people are boxing God's ability to communicate to his creation </font>[/QUOTE]It doesn't take the study of prophets to know that the ancients knew about God. Imhotep wasn't a prophet, but he built the first step pyramid to pray. Akhenaton wasn't a prophet, but he knew he'd have greater religious cohesion among his subjects by combining the main manifestations of God that existed in Africa at the time -- Ammon and Ra. And neither of them had a Bible to go by. They didn't need one because God's creations manifest without having to read a book and see them. The Dogon people of Africa didn't need a Bible to see a star (Sirius B) with the naked eye
that Europeans didn't even find with a telescope until thousand of years later. And the Dogon were shown to be a very spiritual people with a strong moral code. So the morality of man didn't just come when the Bible was written. Like I said earlier, several of the concepts in the Bible came from the books that predate it, which means that these principles were already in place.

[TAD]

Originally posted by Eric Miles:

It is significant that studies of the world's cultures show an almost universal belief in a god or gods. This is not surprising to people who believe the Bible. The writer of Ecclesiastes referred to God as having "set eternity in the hearts of men" (Ecclesiastes 3:11).*This is also not surprising to people who believe in their respective faiths & to those who search for truth. The universality of spirituality is humanity’s common link. Ecclesiastes was echoing the sentiments of more ancient peoples.


Originally posted by Eric Miles:

In his book The Intelligent Universe, Hoyle says, "As biochemists discover more and more about the awesome complexity of life, it is apparent that its chances of originating by accident are so minute that they can be completely ruled out. Life cannot have arisen by chance." *So we see the author of this paper has to refer to scientific thought to provide a basis for his assertions.


Originally posted by Eric Miles:

In the Beginning
In 1965, two physicists discovered that the earth was entirely bathed in a faint glow of radiation. Its waves followed the exact pattern of wavelength expected in a giant explosion. Scientists explained that the waves were the obvious aftermath of a "big bang." Thus, an old theory about the beginnings of the universe gained wider acceptance in the scientific community.

Dr. Robert Jastrow, founder of NASA's Institute for Space Studies, says that the Big Bang theory offers scientific evidence for a biblical view of how the universe began. This respected scientist says that "science has proven that the universe exploded into being in a certain moment." He further explains that this sudden explosion points to a truth found in the very first sentence of the Bible: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

So we see that current scientific evidence for the Big Bang theory points toward a Creator God. And it affirms something King David wrote several thousand years ago: "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands" (Psalms 19:1).*again science is quoted, but this does not point to one specific creator god, it just illustrates the possibility of the universe coming into existence through a particular theory.


Originally posted by Eric Miles:

Why Is There Right and Wrong?
Another evidence for the existence of God, says Christian writer C.S. Lewis, is that people everywhere in the world believe in some idea of right and wrong. People argue with one another every day: "That's my seat. I had it first! Suppose I did the same to you! How would you like it? Come on, you promised.
…"
These daily arguments show that there must be some law or rule of fair play or morality built into us. Lewis says this moral law cannot simply be about what a group of people decides is right for them. It is more like a mathematical table. We would never say the math table could be made differently if we had simply wanted to make it differently. Two plus two will always equal four. And just as there are math "laws" that can never change, the same is true of moral law.

Yes, there is Somebody behind the universe. He has put a moral law within us, and he is intensely interested in right conduct—in fair play, unselfishness, courage, good faith, honesty and truthfulness.*this is not conclusive proof that there is one specific god. It show the built in morality as stated, but that could also imply that we have the god attributes which would essentially make us gods or masters of our own destiny. I posted a link on morality as written by volney that nobody seemed interested in. here’s the link. http://deephousepage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=036341;p=2#0000 41 Nothing new here. The age old adage of “listen to your body.” If you live life honorably, your body will thank you for it. It’s obvious we need to live through hard times, but that’s life. I have chosen a certain path that is having & will ultimately have a positive effect on my being, my flesh. If Christ is the way for some, that’s cool, but it’s not the only way & it’s not the only right way.


Originally posted by Eric Miles:

God's Greatest Evidence
Even though there are many things in nature—even human nature—that point toward God, we could never know conclusively from nature that he is or what he is like. But God has taken the initiative to reveal himself. He has lived among us. He has made his full invasion into human history in the person of Jesus Christ.

Think of it like this. If you want to communicate your love for a colony of ants, how could you most effectively do it? You'd become an ant. This is what God did for us. The best answer to how we know there is a God is that God himself has visited this planet. All of the other pieces of "evidence" for God are merely clues and hints.

The actual existence of Jesus is a well-accepted historical fact. But was he really God? As we consider Christ's claims about himself, there are only four possibilities:*Ok this is where it starts to get ridiculous. On the contrary, the actual existence of jesus is not a well accepted historical fact. Where is the proof for this? There is more evidence to point the other way. In fact there are no contemporaries that mention jesus besides josephus & those are scant & do not mention him by that name, but by another name & place his existence at a time that does not coincide with the supposed birth of jesus. In other words we do not know if the man that josephus writes about is actually the jesus of the bible.


Originally posted by Eric Miles:

1) He was a liar. That is, he knew he was not God, but deliberately deceived his hearers to give authority to his teaching. There are, of course, people who say he was a great moral teacher, but deny his deity. But a deliberate liar and deceiver would hardly qualify as a great "moral" teacher!*This is a very weak argument. There have been great moral teachers since time immemorial. Buddha was a great moral teacher, Confucius was a great moral teacher, Zoroaster was a great moral teacher, Moses was a great moral teacher. Would they not then qualify as son’s of god?


Originally posted by Eric Miles:

2) He was deceived. We have a name for a person who thinks he is God. That name is lunatic. And that label certainly would apply to Christ if he were merely human.*Christ is a title not a person. It was jesus THE Christ & he was not the only one that wore that crown.


Originally posted by Eric Miles:

3) He was a legend. This theory claims that as time passed, Christ's enthusiastic followers put words into his mouth, adding to his legend. Were he to return, he would immediately deny them.

This legend theory has been refuted by modern archaeology, which has conclusively shown that the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) were written within the lifetime of contemporaries of Christ. Some time ago Dr. William F. Albright, a world-famous archaeologist, said there was no reason to believe that any of the Gospels were written later than A.D. 70.*I have yet to see any proof of this. Any well learned theologian of good faith will tell you the four gospels are spurious to say the least. That they were written well beyond the supposed life of jesus by forgerers is a well documented fact. Iraneus (a.d. 179) is the first person who mentions the 4 gospels by name. (Bunsen: Keys Of St. Peter, Page 328). Dr. Albright’s statement is weak & we are to believe him simply because he states there is no reason to believe the gospels were written later than ad70. it’s interesting that he makes this statement. It obviously implies there is evidence to prove that they were written much later. I would like to read where he backs up this statement. Also there exists the apocryphal gospels, rejected by a bunch of bishops at the Council of Laodicea a.d. 365. could they be apocryphal because in them there are passages that state that Mary had more than one son? I wonder.


Originally posted by Eric Miles:

Think of it like this. Imagine that someone today wrote a biography of the late President Richard Nixon, and in it said he claimed to be God, to have forgiven people's sins, and to have risen from the dead. Such a story would never get off the ground because there are still too many people around who knew Nixon! The same would be true for the Gospel writers. If they had written lies, they would have been exposed as frauds.*You should read the confession of Constantine, one of the original fathers of Christianity. You would be shocked!!


Originally posted by Eric Miles:

He was telling the truth. That is, Jesus was who he said he was. But some might argue, "So what? Talk is cheap!" Anyone can make claims. Others have claimed deity. But when it comes to Jesus of Nazareth, his words are backed up by evidence. He said, "If I don't do the things my Father does, well and good; don't believe me. But if I am doing them, put aside for a moment what you hear me say about myself and just take the evidence of the actions that are right before your eyes. Then perhaps things will come together for you, and you'll see that not only are we doing the same thing; we are the same—Father and Son. He is in me; I am in him" (John 10:38, The Message).*Again there is no proof that jesus said any of these things because there are no other works of that period that can verify this. Surely if jesus said those things, if he was who he claimed to be, there would be ample evidence of this outside the bible. The silence of josephus & other secular historians may be accounted for without falling back on a theory of hostility or contempt. The Christ idea cannot be spared from Christian development, but the personal jesus, in some measure, can be.


Originally posted by Eric Miles:

The greatest evidence to Christ's claims of deity is his resurrection from the dead. Five times, he predicted he would die. He also predicted how he would die and that three days later he would rise from the dead and appear to his disciples.*Osiris was raised from the dead 1500 years b4 jesus.


Originally posted by Eric Miles:

Finally, there is the evidence for the Resurrection that is very personal. If Jesus Christ rose from the dead, he is alive today, ready to invade and change those who invite him into their lives. In fact, millions now living claim their lives have been revolutionized by Jesus Christ. He has done in them what he said he would do.*So jesus is still alive or is it the Christ within us all?


Originally posted by Eric Miles:

"Believe in Jesus and be saved" isn't simply a nice religious saying. It is a life-changing reality. It is evidence that God is alive and living in those who choose to accept him as Lord and Savior.*I accept my own divinity. I am anointed with the holy spirit that is me. I call out many names, one of which may be jesus depending on my mood. :D

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
Ok. Maybe I'm way out in left field, but I'm supposed to believe that morality wasn't created until the Bible? I cannot and will not accept this argument. If that's the case then how were the Kemetic dynasties, the Sumerians, the Phoenicians, The Olmecs, and many other civilizations that predate the Bible able to prosper? The ability of the human spirit goes way beyond aforementioned rules or morality, otherwise we as humans wouldn't be able to get past horrendous tragedies (ie, the Middle Passage "Maafa", the Holocaust, 9/11, etc.).

It is my belief that civilizations that predate the Bible had some type of moral code to live by. Carved in stone in Kemet (KMT- "land of the Blacks"), what the Greeks later called Egypt (land of the sun-burnt people) are the 47 Confessions of Ma'at where it was believed you had to quote and live by these morals to get into "heaven". And in doing so, your heart was measured against a feather by Djhuti. This may be African folklore, but it still shows some type of moral code in existence way before the Bible. Before the bible God did speak to prophets and man. So that is how people knew about morales ;) While studying history, study more on the prophets of that day. How else could the bible be written? Once again people are boxing God's ability to communicate to his creation </font>[/QUOTE]It doesn't take the study of prophets to know that the ancients knew about God. Imhotep wasn't a prophet, but he built the first step pyramid to pray. Akhenaton wasn't a prophet, but he knew he'd have greater religious cohesion among his subjects by combining the main manifestations of God that existed in Africa at the time -- Ammon and Ra. And neither of them had a Bible to go by. They didn't need one because God's creations manifest without having to read a book and see them. The Dogon people of Africa didn't need a Bible to see a star (Sirius B) with the naked eye
that Europeans didn't even find with a telescope until thousand of years later. And the Dogon were shown to be a very spiritual people with a strong moral code. So the morality of man didn't just come when the Bible was written. Like I said earlier, several of the concepts in the Bible came from the books that predate it, which means that these principles were already in place. </font>[/QUOTE]And how do we really know that these books came before the bible? We can go on all day of what book is right and wrong. One thing I do know the bible is the best and longest selling book in the world. Not much one can say about the other readings before the bible. But hey, What do I know according to some people like me are crazy, delusional sheep that follow fairies, elves, dragons etc. Well, I have to go now, I am on a quest to save middle earth with the Hobbit and Harry Potter :rolleyes:

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
what in the heck does their wealth have to do with you stealing???

regardless of reasons for doing so if it's wrong it's wrong... Can you explain to me exactly why it wrong???
And the wealthe has alot to do with it.. because i'm trying to say that I wouldn't steal from someone that is in my situation.. to help feed my child.. I will steal from those that can afford it..

So then again why is it wrong.. B/c the law says.. b/c the bible says..?? </font>[/QUOTE]hell yes because the law says if for no other reason...

and...you wouldn't want someone stealing from you...more than likely the RICH person would probably GIVE you food or money to feed your child if you would only ASK...it's wrong because it is... </font>[/QUOTE]ok like I said its wrong because man made it so..
You just said its wrong for a woman to do anything she has to do feed her child..

In my life.. I believe its worse for a woman not to do anything and everything, regardless of what the laws of man say, to feed her child.. </font>[/QUOTE]you ask for help why do you have to steal?
...it's law which we are governed by...
not once did you say, I've exhausted all means in my power available to me...you said I stole to feed my child...with all the means available to you, you won't have to steal...trust me...

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
what in the heck does their wealth have to do with you stealing???

regardless of reasons for doing so if it's wrong it's wrong... Can you explain to me exactly why it wrong???
And the wealthe has alot to do with it.. because i'm trying to say that I wouldn't steal from someone that is in my situation.. to help feed my child.. I will steal from those that can afford it..

So then again why is it wrong.. B/c the law says.. b/c the bible says..?? </font>[/QUOTE]hell yes because the law says if for no other reason...

and...you wouldn't want someone stealing from you...more than likely the RICH person would probably GIVE you food or money to feed your child if you would only ASK...it's wrong because it is... </font>[/QUOTE]ok like I said its wrong because man made it so..
You just said its wrong for a woman to do anything she has to do feed her child..

In my life.. I believe its worse for a woman not to do anything and everything, regardless of what the laws of man say, to feed her child.. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree.
You're tapping into what Martin Luther King called man's laws and divine law. Before the Montgomery Bus Boycott, the law was that blacks had to ride in the back of the bus and give up their seat if whites had nowhere to sit. That was man's law. But King felt there was a divine right by all men to enjoy the inalienable rights given to them by God. And that God's law ALWAYS overules man's law.

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Problem with your argument is that I don't believe house music exists when I have never heard it. I don't tell people that techno is not house when I have never heard it. I don't tell people they are doomed to eternal damnation because they don't believe in deep house music. People are sheep because they blindly follow this book of fairy tales with not proof what so ever that this book is ordained by god. Other than that is what they have been told. And your assertion that I or anyone else who has not embraced your belief just does not understand also makes you sheep. I understand. I reject. It's bullshit.
I understand your point, and not trying to force anything on unbelievers. It's not up to me to make you believe. I will say this "THIS SHEEP LOVES YOU ANYWAY" As a matter of fact while I am studying the book of fables and fairytales, I will make sure to get a prayer in for you to the "make-believe God" I serve graemlins/bighug.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Not saying your god is make believe. Not at all. What I'm saying is that the belief system that the Christian religion is based on is severely flawed. As are pretty much all the others. The "If you don't believe what I believe you're going to Hell" nonsense. Organized religion is a sham. Designed to control. </font>[/QUOTE]It's very wrong to control people that are killing, molesting, stealing etc. Yep that's it. And why in the world someone that has lived their life right go to a same place as someone like Herod or Hitler after death? What was is the point anyway.

I once never said who would be going to Hell or Heaven, I personally don't know. I am just going on what I've learned through the bible and the Hebrew bible. So people that have issues with God and the bible it's is on them. I could care less what the Hell someone else that don't believe and won't hear have to say. My job is to live my life, love unconditionally and serve God the best way I know how. The difference between me, non-beleivers and the religious is: I love wisdom and increasing my knowledge of self. In which some people in this day lack :rolleyes: So excuse me for wanting to expand myself through through what I believe God will have me to do graemlins/conf44.gif </font>[/QUOTE]What about believers who don't believe what you believe?

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
what in the heck does their wealth have to do with you stealing???

regardless of reasons for doing so if it's wrong it's wrong... Can you explain to me exactly why it wrong???
And the wealthe has alot to do with it.. because i'm trying to say that I wouldn't steal from someone that is in my situation.. to help feed my child.. I will steal from those that can afford it..

So then again why is it wrong.. B/c the law says.. b/c the bible says..?? </font>[/QUOTE]hell yes because the law says if for no other reason...

and...you wouldn't want someone stealing from you...more than likely the RICH person would probably GIVE you food or money to feed your child if you would only ASK...it's wrong because it is... </font>[/QUOTE]ok like I said its wrong because man made it so..
You just said its wrong for a woman to do anything she has to do feed her child..

In my life.. I believe its worse for a woman not to do anything and everything, regardless of what the laws of man say, to feed her child.. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree.
You're tapping into what Martin Luther King called man's laws and divine law. Before the Montgomery Bus Boycott, the law was that blacks had to ride in the back of the bus and give up their seat if whites had nowhere to sit. That was man's law. But King felt there was a divine right by all men to enjoy the inalienable rights given to them by God. And that God's law ALWAYS overules man's law. </font>[/QUOTE]well i can agree with that to a certain degree ... but the point is... the law still had to be challenged...so if you think stealing is validated and excusable under certain circumstances then you challenge to change the law...black people didn't just plop their asses in the front of the bus because they felt like the law was wrong, they did what they had to do to change the law...unfortunately i do not agree with all laws in which we are governed...but these are the laws which governs our society...

i understand myor's point but regardless of why she does it...it's wrong...according to the law, maybe not morals or values...

[Koffy Brown]

These are the 42 Laws of Maat which were written before the 10 commandments...although I don't believe that the bible and other man interpreted books should be taken so literrally there are basic laws in which we as human beings should abide by...

I honor virtue
I benefit without conflict
I am non-violent
I respect the property of others
I affirm that all life is sacred
I give offerings that are genuine and generous
I live in truth
I hold sacred those objects consecrated to the Divine
I speak the truth
I consume only my fair share
I speak words of good intent
I relate in peace
I honor animals as sacred
I can be trusted
I care for the earth
I keep my own council
I speak positively of others
I remain in balance with my emotions
I am trustful in my relationships
I hold purity in high esteem
I spread joy
I do the best I can
I communicate with compassion
I listen to opposing opinions
I create harmony
I invoke laughter
I am open to love in various forms
I am forgiving
I am non-abusive
I act respectfully of others
I am non-judgemental
I follow my inner guidance
I speak without disturbing others
I do good
I give blessings
I keep the waters pure
I speak with optimism
I praise the Goddess
I am humble
I achieve with integrity
I advance through my own abilities
I embrace the all

[TAD]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
And how do we really know that these books came before the bible? We can go on all day of what book is right and wrong. One thing I do know the bible is the best and longest selling book in the world. Not much one can say about the other readings before the bible. But hey, What do I know according to some people like me are crazy, delusional sheep that follow fairies, elves, dragons etc. Well, I have to go now, I am on a quest to save middle earth with the Hobbit and Harry Potter :rolleyes: the bible has many positive moral lessons. in that respect it is not wrong. it is not wrong to provide those lessons as a basis for a strong moral upbringing but it's not the only one. it is wrong however to imply that if one does not accept jesus one is surely damned to hell, even if that person lived a righteous life. you have to agree with that. leaving it to god to judge as an answer shows that your faith has interupted the necessary thought processes that shoulod allow you to question such ridiculous assertions.

now you asked a very importnat question. how do we know those books came b4 the bible? well they did. this is a fact. the pyramids are over 5000 years old. the egyptian book of the dead, the first true bible is dated from 1500 b.c. the old testament bible was transcribed in writing at the sanhedrin around 700 b.c. the oldest european text is the greek iliad & the oddyssey written around 600 b.c. these are historical facts. notice how the bible has NO dates & NO names of the egyptian Pharoah's. don't you find that a bit strange? also the whole of genesis & exodus takes place in egypt. this is the beginning of the jewish history, in egypt. abraham entered egypt around 1700 bc. believed to be during the Hyksos invasion. (this is the first foreign invasion in africas history)the pyramids were already built so the jews could NOT have slaved over the pyramids. moses lived around 1100 bc durin the time of Akhenataon. Akhanaton is the pharoah that rebelled and brought back the worshipiing of ONE deity. it is from here that Moses got influenced and started his own one god religion. don't forget moses was an EGYPTIAN PRIEST, ordained & studied in the egyptian temples.

DATES are very important & once you can establish a timeline, you will approach it with a different perspective.

[ September 12, 2003, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Cosmic_Twin ]

[MYOR]

Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
regardless of reasons for doing so if it's wrong it's wrong... [/qb]Can you explain to me exactly why it wrong???
And the wealthe has alot to do with it.. because i'm trying to say that I wouldn't steal from someone that is in my situation.. to help feed my child.. I will steal from those that can afford it..

So then again why is it wrong.. B/c the law says.. b/c the bible says..?? [/qb][/QUOTE]hell yes because the law says if for no other reason...

and...you wouldn't want someone stealing from you...more than likely the RICH person would probably GIVE you food or money to feed your child if you would only ASK...it's wrong because it is... [/qb][/QUOTE]ok like I said its wrong because man made it so..
You just said its wrong for a woman to do anything she has to do feed her child..

In my life.. I believe its worse for a woman not to do anything and everything, regardless of what the laws of man say, to feed her child.. [/qb][/QUOTE]I agree.
You're tapping into what Martin Luther King called man's laws and divine law. Before the Montgomery Bus Boycott, the law was that blacks had to ride in the back of the bus and give up their seat if whites had nowhere to sit. That was man's law. But King felt there was a divine right by all men to enjoy the inalienable rights given to them by God. And that God's law ALWAYS overules man's law. [/qb][/QUOTE]well i can agree with that to a certain degree ... but the point is... the law still had to be challenged...so if you think stealing is validated and excusable under certain circumstances then you challenge to change the law...black people didn't just plop their asses in the front of the bus because they felt like the law was wrong, they did what they had to do to change the law...unfortunately i do not agree with all laws in which we are governed...but these are the laws which governs our society...

i understand myor's point but regardless of why she does it...it's wrong...according to the law, maybe not morals or values... [/QB][/QUOTE]

And that is my POINT its MAN MADE LAWS...

[TAD]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
What about believers who don't believe what you believe? haven't you heard, we're all on that one way ticket to hell baby!!! marshmallows anyone??

[Friday]

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/devil10.gif

Look Inside (http://deephousepage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=035255)

biggrinangel.gif

[jimmymack-2000]

This whole thread is ridiculous! It's like a deaf guy trying to describe the color yellow to a blind guy...totally without resolution.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
What about believers who don't believe what you believe? haven't you heard, we're all on that one way ticket to hell baby!!! marshmallows anyone?? </font>[/QUOTE]I don't know but I think I'm going to heaven.. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/devil10.gif

I'm going to heaven..
I'm going to heaven..
I'm going to heaven..

Besides I drink Red Bull haven't you heard it gives you wings biggrinangel.gif

[ September 12, 2003, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: MYOR ]

[TAD]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
This whole thread is ridiculous! It's like a deaf guy trying to describe the color yellow to a blind guy...totally without resolution. shut up & contribute.

[Friday]

Here we go again smile.gif I forgot who wrote this, but hey......

What if there was no God? I’m serious. Think about it. (Pause) What if God didn’t exist? What if Jesus really was a ****ing schizophrenic? Wouldn’t we be a bunch of idiots. Running around, handing out money, praying to a crazy person. Somebody that nowadays would probably be locked up in a nuthouse, taking cocktail after cocktail of suppressants, walking down bare white halls, pointing and talking to the air.
Is it possible that that man could be our God, our savior? Perhaps. I’d still get high with J.C., it certainly doesn’t change that fact.
But what if that Great Eye doesn’t stare down at us. No longer penetrates our mind, body, and soul. What if we don’t even have a soul? Would you still do the right thing? I don’t think I would. If there aren’t any Pearly Gates, than what the **** am I being so damn good for? No Heaven, no Hell. Just this one life we’ve got to live. And no matter what we do with it, it ain’t gonna change shit once we’re six feet under and forgotten. And even if I am remembered for some odd reason, hundreds of years from now, what difference does it make to me. I can’t witness my own immortality.
But, what if, maybe, we got the whole God thing all wrong. Maybe it’s not about Heaven or Hell, the Ten Commandments, or any of that societal bull shit. That crap’s engineered to keep us in line so we don’t go running amok like barbarians.
Forget about God, forget about all that for a few seconds. And what’s left? If this is all we have, what are we doing here then? What’s the ****ing point? I’ll tell you what the ****ing point is.
(Pause) Ready? It’s Love. You do what’s right because of love. You wake up smiling not because of God but because of love. No matter how much of God somebody thinks they have inside, if they don’t have love they’re miserable. There’s peace in love. Don’t you ever forget that. It’s okay to die if you’ve loved.

[Friday]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
This whole thread is ridiculous! It's like a deaf guy trying to describe the color yellow to a blind guy...totally without resolution. shut up & contribute. </font>[/QUOTE]That was harsh, everyone is entitled to a voice.

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
Ok. Maybe I'm way out in left field, but I'm supposed to believe that morality wasn't created until the Bible? I cannot and will not accept this argument. If that's the case then how were the Kemetic dynasties, the Sumerians, the Phoenicians, The Olmecs, and many other civilizations that predate the Bible able to prosper? The ability of the human spirit goes way beyond aforementioned rules or morality, otherwise we as humans wouldn't be able to get past horrendous tragedies (ie, the Middle Passage "Maafa", the Holocaust, 9/11, etc.).

It is my belief that civilizations that predate the Bible had some type of moral code to live by. Carved in stone in Kemet (KMT- "land of the Blacks"), what the Greeks later called Egypt (land of the sun-burnt people) are the 47 Confessions of Ma'at where it was believed you had to quote and live by these morals to get into "heaven". And in doing so, your heart was measured against a feather by Djhuti. This may be African folklore, but it still shows some type of moral code in existence way before the Bible. Before the bible God did speak to prophets and man. So that is how people knew about morales ;) While studying history, study more on the prophets of that day. How else could the bible be written? Once again people are boxing God's ability to communicate to his creation </font>[/QUOTE]It doesn't take the study of prophets to know that the ancients knew about God. Imhotep wasn't a prophet, but he built the first step pyramid to pray. Akhenaton wasn't a prophet, but he knew he'd have greater religious cohesion among his subjects by combining the main manifestations of God that existed in Africa at the time -- Ammon and Ra. And neither of them had a Bible to go by. They didn't need one because God's creations manifest without having to read a book and see them. The Dogon people of Africa didn't need a Bible to see a star (Sirius B) with the naked eye
that Europeans didn't even find with a telescope until thousand of years later. And the Dogon were shown to be a very spiritual people with a strong moral code. So the morality of man didn't just come when the Bible was written. Like I said earlier, several of the concepts in the Bible came from the books that predate it, which means that these principles were already in place. </font>[/QUOTE]And how do we really know that these books came before the bible? We can go on all day of what book is right and wrong. One thing I do know the bible is the best and longest selling book in the world. Not much one can say about the other readings before the bible. But hey, What do I know according to some people like me are crazy, delusional sheep that follow fairies, elves, dragons etc. Well, I have to go now, I am on a quest to save middle earth with the Hobbit and Harry Potter :rolleyes: </font>[/QUOTE]I don't understand your question. The Metu Netcher inside the pyramids predates the Bible at least 4000 years. The praises of Akhenaton which look strikingly similar to Psalms in the Bible predate it at 3500 years. The most simple proof is that the Pyramids themselves were built way before Abraham, much less Moses. Moreover, Abraham and Moses studied in Egypt before they led their people. And Akhenaton, Imhotep, Tehcarcas (whose even mentioned in the Bible) were dead long before Abraham was even born. These are basic historical facts, just like the fact that the Bible predates the Q'uran. Just to show you I'm not making this information up. Here's a list of books that helped me better understand and solidify my position:

The Naghammadi Texts
How Came the Bible (I forgot the author's name)
Chosen People of the Caucasus written by Michael Bradley
Black Men of the Nile written by Dr. Joseph Ben-Jochanon
The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read edited by Tim Leedom
The Hiram Key written by Lomas and Knight
The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors written by Albert Mackey
Deceptions and Myths of the Bible written by Lloyd Graham
Morals and Dogma of Freemasonry written by Albert Pike
A Literary History of the Bible by Geddes MacGregor (with a whole chapter entitled "Queen James")
Lies my Teacher Told by Robert Lloewen
A Peoples' History of the United States by Howard Zinn
The Peculiar Institution by Kenneth Stammp
Nile Valley Contribution to Civilization by Anthony Browder
The Browder File by Anthony Browder
"Minister, Thou Art Bound" lecture series given by Keidi Obi Awadu (The Conscious Rasta)
"African Origin of Judaism, Islam, and Chritianity" lecture series given by Ashra Kwesi

[Friday]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
Facts & truths, perceptions & beliefs. Why is it that we have to have something in order to make the day go by. Strip away our gender, race, thought, intelligence, rationalization and the end result is we are nothing, but we cling to something in order to find a purpose to our non-sensical lives. When you finally accept that you are actually nothing, somewhere in that nothing there will actually be something, the only thing is will you be able to identify that it is there and to further my insanity at this hour when you have identified it, you may have to ask whether you have created yet another illusion to give meaning to your life.
On your final breath will you actually find the truth about your life unless you live each day because you have died to yesterday and are unborn to tomorrow.

On that note I will go to sleep graemlins/sleep2.gif Your thoughts echo the early African genius Imhotep and also Socrates. Once we realize we don't know anything, it becomes easier to learn. </font>[/QUOTE]And here I thought I was being all original ;)

Actually, can you recommend any books on them djmarbll? I have never read either.

[ September 12, 2003, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: gf ]

[MYOR]

Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
This whole thread is ridiculous! It's like a deaf guy trying to describe the color yellow to a blind guy...totally without resolution. shut up & contribute. </font>[/QUOTE]That was harsh, everyone is entitled to a voice. </font>[/QUOTE]yeah that was harsh... http://deephousepage.com/smilies/pointlaugh.gif

Lets try it like this.....

Well there must be something interesting here you seem to be reading it.. graemlins/rofl.gif icon_rofl.gif

I know, I know its like watching a car wreck.. You don't want to look but just can't seem to make yourself look away graemlins/cool_shades.gif

[ September 12, 2003, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: MYOR ]

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
These are the 42 Laws of Maat which were written before the 10 commandments...although I don't believe that the bible and other man interpreted books should be taken so literrally there are basic laws in which we as human beings should abide by...

I honor virtue
I benefit without conflict
I am non-violent
I respect the property of others
I affirm that all life is sacred
I give offerings that are genuine and generous
I live in truth
I hold sacred those objects consecrated to the Divine
I speak the truth
I consume only my fair share
I speak words of good intent
I relate in peace
I honor animals as sacred
I can be trusted
I care for the earth
I keep my own council
I speak positively of others
I remain in balance with my emotions
I am trustful in my relationships
I hold purity in high esteem
I spread joy
I do the best I can
I communicate with compassion
I listen to opposing opinions
I create harmony
I invoke laughter
I am open to love in various forms
I am forgiving
I am non-abusive
I act respectfully of others
I am non-judgemental
I follow my inner guidance
I speak without disturbing others
I do good
I give blessings
I keep the waters pure
I speak with optimism
I praise the Goddess
I am humble
I achieve with integrity
I advance through my own abilities
I embrace the all Thank you so much for posting this. My mistake, I thought there were 47. I stand corrected. Thank you. I believe that the Bible did borrow some of the concepts though.

[Friday]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AshakiMzuri:
These are the 42 Laws of Maat which were written before the 10 commandments...although I don't believe that the bible and other man interpreted books should be taken so literrally there are basic laws in which we as human beings should abide by...

I honor virtue
I benefit without conflict
I am non-violent
I respect the property of others
I affirm that all life is sacred
I give offerings that are genuine and generous
I live in truth
I hold sacred those objects consecrated to the Divine
I speak the truth
I consume only my fair share
I speak words of good intent
I relate in peace
I honor animals as sacred
I can be trusted
I care for the earth
I keep my own council
I speak positively of others
I remain in balance with my emotions
I am trustful in my relationships
I hold purity in high esteem
I spread joy
I do the best I can
I communicate with compassion
I listen to opposing opinions
I create harmony
I invoke laughter
I am open to love in various forms
I am forgiving
I am non-abusive
I act respectfully of others
I am non-judgemental
I follow my inner guidance
I speak without disturbing others
I do good
I give blessings
I keep the waters pure
I speak with optimism
I praise the Goddess
I am humble
I achieve with integrity
I advance through my own abilities
I embrace the all Thank you so much for posting this. My mistake, I thought there were 47. I stand corrected. Thank you. I believe that the Bible did borrow some of the concepts though. </font>[/QUOTE]This is really nice.

[jimmymack-2000]

Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
This whole thread is ridiculous! It's like a deaf guy trying to describe the color yellow to a blind guy...totally without resolution. shut up & contribute. </font>[/QUOTE]That was harsh, everyone is entitled to a voice. </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you gf, but I think he was joking!

Here's my contribution: the human condition is one of baseness, avarice, and self-interest. In order to "civilize" the masses, some of the ancient world's more "enlightened" thinkers invented the concept of an omniscient being who could punish your 60 years' worth of "sins" and transgressions with an eternity of torment just to keep the commoners in line.

In short, people are so stupid and selfish and weak that religion is needed to whip them into line and prevent them from killing each other on the slightest whim.

By extension, recognizing the natural prediliction of humans to want to discriminate, shed blood, etc., and aided by the opening up of most of the Middle East to foreign influences, the fathers of these religions declared that killing, raping and otherwise beating on those who didn't follow "the true path" was an acceptable and healthy outlet for those less-holy human passsions.

Notice how no jihads, crusades, etc. ever came out of Buddhism, or Shintoism, or Taoism, or Zorostrianism? Why is this phenomenon of condemning/persecuting the followers of other faiths (to the point of bloody religious warfare) solely a prediliction of the three religions founded in "The Holy Land," hmmmm?

[TAD]

Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
This whole thread is ridiculous! It's like a deaf guy trying to describe the color yellow to a blind guy...totally without resolution. shut up & contribute. </font>[/QUOTE]That was harsh, everyone is entitled to a voice. </font>[/QUOTE]uhh that was a joke sweety. i think jimmymack understands my sense of humour

[Friday]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
This whole thread is ridiculous! It's like a deaf guy trying to describe the color yellow to a blind guy...totally without resolution. shut up & contribute. </font>[/QUOTE]That was harsh, everyone is entitled to a voice. </font>[/QUOTE]uhh that was a joke sweety. i think jimmymack understands my sense of humour </font>[/QUOTE]Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, well jeez, why you guys got to be so mean graemlins/spanka.gif
Ok..... I will forgive you graemlins/remybussi.gif

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
And how do we really know that these books came before the bible? We can go on all day of what book is right and wrong. One thing I do know the bible is the best and longest selling book in the world. Not much one can say about the other readings before the bible. But hey, What do I know according to some people like me are crazy, delusional sheep that follow fairies, elves, dragons etc. Well, I have to go now, I am on a quest to save middle earth with the Hobbit and Harry Potter :rolleyes: the bible has many positive moral lessons. in that respect it is not wrong. it is not wrong to provide those lessons as a basis for a strong moral upbringing but it's not the only one. it is wrong however to imply that if one does not accept jesus one is surely damned to hell, even if that person lived a righteous life. you have to agree with that. leaving it to god to judge as an answer shows that your faith has interupted the necessary thought processes that shoulod allow you to question such ridiculous assertions.

now you asked a very importnat question. how do we know those books came b4 the bible? well they did. this is a fact. the pyramids are over 5000 years old. the egyptian book of the dead, the first true bible is dated from 1500 b.c. the old testament bible was transcribed in writing at the sanhedrin around 700 b.c. the oldest european text is the greek iliad & the oddyssey written around 600 b.c. these are historical facts. notice how the bible has NO dates & NO names of the egyptian Pharoah's. don't you find that a bit strange? also the whole of genesis & exodus takes place in egypt. this is the beginning of the jewish history, in egypt. abraham entered egypt around 1700 bc. believed to be during the Hyksos invasion. (this is the first foreign invasion in africas history)the pyramids were already built so the jews could NOT have slaved over the pyramids. moses lived around 1100 bc durin the time of Akhenataon. Akhanaton is the pharoah that rebelled and brought back the worshipiing of ONE deity. it is from here that Moses got influenced and started his own one god religion. don't forget moses was an EGYPTIAN PRIEST, ordained & studied in the egyptian temples.

DATES are very important & once you can establish a timeline, you will approach it with a different perspective. </font>[/QUOTE]Very informative.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

What about believers who don't believe what you believe?
So what? Jehovah Witnesses teach with the bible, just as the Mormans do and both beleive any other believer of the bible will not make it to heaven because they are chosen to teach the gospel.

As far as for me, I don't condemn people that don't believe, it's not for me to make them understand. All I can do is share my Love for God and those that want to know more then I will share more. For those that don't I do not shake my head in disgust and condemn them to damnation. Beleive it or not I consider myself more along the lines of walking in love and giving others a chance to express themselves and their beliefs. I am not so quick to beat people over the head to believe in what I believe. You have more people respecting and hearing you when you act out of love. Which is the least I can say about people that are quick to condemn my beliefs :rolleyes:

ANOTHER REASON GOD IS SO AWESOME.....We have 8 pages arguing how his heaven and hell don't exist, how religion is a control mechanism. It's funny that people spend more time diminishing God than they do politics. If God and his bible is fiction why are we still talking about it? That thread about Lord of the Rings posted a few days ago didn't get this much attention. graemlins/conf44.gif Are we debating or trying to convince ourselves that we are right? Funny how people that don't believe in God can get so passionate about when the bible was written and how religion is so man made.

It has to be powerful enough to even give it a second thought. Something that should make you go Hmmmmmmmmmmm ;)

[ September 12, 2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: DiscoLady ]

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
What about believers who don't believe what you believe? haven't you heard, we're all on that one way ticket to hell baby!!! marshmallows anyone?? </font>[/QUOTE]graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif Everytime a fat guy farts an angel earns its wings. biggrinangel.gif

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
Facts & truths, perceptions & beliefs. Why is it that we have to have something in order to make the day go by. Strip away our gender, race, thought, intelligence, rationalization and the end result is we are nothing, but we cling to something in order to find a purpose to our non-sensical lives. When you finally accept that you are actually nothing, somewhere in that nothing there will actually be something, the only thing is will you be able to identify that it is there and to further my insanity at this hour when you have identified it, you may have to ask whether you have created yet another illusion to give meaning to your life.
On your final breath will you actually find the truth about your life unless you live each day because you have died to yesterday and are unborn to tomorrow.

On that note I will go to sleep graemlins/sleep2.gif Your thoughts echo the early African genius Imhotep and also Socrates. Once we realize we don't know anything, it becomes easier to learn. </font>[/QUOTE]And here I thought I was being all original ;)

Actually, can you recommend any books on them djmarbll? I have never read either. </font>[/QUOTE]Imhotep is credited with the phrase "Eat, Drink, and be Merry, for tomorrow we will die" basically meaning live life like everyday is your last. Imhotep lived his life this way. He was a musician, poet, architect, scribe, and doctor. In fact, Hippocrates (who some consider the father of medicine) says he learned from Imhotep. The only books I've read that go into detail about Imhotep and Socrates are Tony Browder's "Nile Valley Contribution to Civilization" and George James' "Stolen Legacy".

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
And how do we really know that these books came before the bible? We can go on all day of what book is right and wrong. One thing I do know the bible is the best and longest selling book in the world. Not much one can say about the other readings before the bible. But hey, What do I know according to some people like me are crazy, delusional sheep that follow fairies, elves, dragons etc. Well, I have to go now, I am on a quest to save middle earth with the Hobbit and Harry Potter :rolleyes: the bible has many positive moral lessons. in that respect it is not wrong. it is not wrong to provide those lessons as a basis for a strong moral upbringing but it's not the only one. it is wrong however to imply that if one does not accept jesus one is surely damned to hell, even if that person lived a righteous life. you have to agree with that. leaving it to god to judge as an answer shows that your faith has interupted the necessary thought processes that shoulod allow you to question such ridiculous assertions.

now you asked a very importnat question. how do we know those books came b4 the bible? well they did. this is a fact. the pyramids are over 5000 years old. the egyptian book of the dead, the first true bible is dated from 1500 b.c. the old testament bible was transcribed in writing at the sanhedrin around 700 b.c. the oldest european text is the greek iliad & the oddyssey written around 600 b.c. these are historical facts. notice how the bible has NO dates & NO names of the egyptian Pharoah's. don't you find that a bit strange? also the whole of genesis & exodus takes place in egypt. this is the beginning of the jewish history, in egypt. abraham entered egypt around 1700 bc. believed to be during the Hyksos invasion. (this is the first foreign invasion in africas history)the pyramids were already built so the jews could NOT have slaved over the pyramids. moses lived around 1100 bc durin the time of Akhenataon. Akhanaton is the pharoah that rebelled and brought back the worshipiing of ONE deity. it is from here that Moses got influenced and started his own one god religion. don't forget moses was an EGYPTIAN PRIEST, ordained & studied in the egyptian temples.

DATES are very important & once you can establish a timeline, you will approach it with a different perspective. </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks Cosmic Twin. I had a few of my dates mixed regarding Moses, Abraham, and Akhenaton.

[rob brito]

Let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
-- 1 John 3:18

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> What about believers who don't believe what you believe?
So what? Jehovah Witnesses teach with the bible, just as the Mormans do and both beleive any other believer of the bible will not make it to heaven because they are chosen to teach the gospel.

As far as for me, I don't condemn people that don't believe, it's not for me to make them understand. All I can do is share my Love for God and those that want to know more then I will share more. For those that don't I do not shake my head in disgust and condemn them to damnation. Beleive it or not I consider myself more along the lines of walking in love and giving others a chance to express themselves and their beliefs. I am not so quick to beat people over the head to believe in what I believe. You have more people respecting and hearing you when you act out of love. Which is the least I can say about people that are quick to condemn my beliefs :rolleyes:

ANOTHER REASON GOD IS SO AWESOME.....We have 8 pages arguing how his heaven and hell don't exist, how religion is a control mechanism. It's funny that people spend more time diminishing God than they do politics. If God and his bible is fiction why are we still talking about it? That thread about Lord of the Rings posted a few days ago didn't get this much attention. graemlins/conf44.gif Are we debating or trying to convince ourselves that we are right? Funny how people that don't believe in God can get so passionate about when the bible was written and how religion is so man made.

It has to be powerful enough to even give it a second thought. Something that should make you go Hmmmmmmmmmmm ;) </font>[/QUOTE]I think we get so passionate about religious discussions because at the end of the day, we're really talking about our own eternity, which is something NONE of us can say that we really know about.

[Friday]

Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djmarbll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
Facts & truths, perceptions & beliefs. Why is it that we have to have something in order to make the day go by. Strip away our gender, race, thought, intelligence, rationalization and the end result is we are nothing, but we cling to something in order to find a purpose to our non-sensical lives. When you finally accept that you are actually nothing, somewhere in that nothing there will actually be something, the only thing is will you be able to identify that it is there and to further my insanity at this hour when you have identified it, you may have to ask whether you have created yet another illusion to give meaning to your life.
On your final breath will you actually find the truth about your life unless you live each day because you have died to yesterday and are unborn to tomorrow.

On that note I will go to sleep graemlins/sleep2.gif Your thoughts echo the early African genius Imhotep and also Socrates. Once we realize we don't know anything, it becomes easier to learn. </font>[/QUOTE]And here I thought I was being all original ;)

Actually, can you recommend any books on them djmarbll? I have never read either. </font>[/QUOTE]Imhotep is credited with the phrase "Eat, Drink, and be Merry, for tomorrow we will die" basically meaning live life like everyday is your last. Imhotep lived his life this way. He was a musician, poet, architect, scribe, and doctor. In fact, Hippocrates (who some consider the father of medicine) says he learned from Imhotep. The only books I've read that go into detail about Imhotep and Socrates are Tony Browder's "Nile Valley Contribution to Civilization" and George James' "Stolen Legacy". </font>[/QUOTE]Ah, thank you djmarbll. I will look into these. I have heard of Stolen Legacy before (Cosmic) ;)

Also, In the movie The Mummy, wasn't that guy who got buried alive called Imhotep? Any relation or just Hollywood fluff?

[RX]

i believe that most aren't afraid to die, but are afraid to suffer and hurt while dying or the way in which death will come...watching shows like "beyond" and "crossing over" has really been a comfort to me...i have been aware for some time about other planes, but to see that others who are not "evil" believe it and can prove it makes me feel great about life and babies' spirits being protected when they die or are killed...