Bowling For Columbine...

[the crackhouse]

...seen it 2 days ago.
I like Micheal Moore's "I just try to understand." explanation to all the interviewed persons.
The cartoon about the white immigrants was so funny and real !
Good to know that there's a man ready to point his finger on the sh8 hapenning.

It may be rude to say that, but I feel lucky not to be born in the USA (sorry Bruce).
I know the french media are becoming a band of corporate lyers, but we stil have a press and TV opposition that owns a powerfull place on the scene.
It's strange as I see subject here that are discussed by people who seems not to be able to catch the correct infos, which are not told or hided.

And about the fact that rifles and guns are legal in your states : this is something that I'll never understand.
Like said the young canadians in the documentary, when you have a prob. with someone here in France, you have a boxing fight with him, sometimes bad boys are having knives fights, but never pull a gun.

I'm happy to know that Bow4Cow had an oscar of the best documentary. So it'lle be known and watched by many.

[upliftdisco365]

I've been trying to watch this documentary for weeks now. Maybe Saturday will be the day.

[FranG]

Gotta love Michael Moore. His latest book is great too and has a fantastic title, " Dude, where's my Country!"

[DJ76]

good movie all and all. Yeah that cartoon (produced by the South Park guys?) was hilarious.

I heard some comments that he could've been more subtle and less "in your face", but I think a movie like this has its place.

[Martin Red]

I watched it with an American, Efab. I am sure if your American it can seem very cringe worthy.

UK's channel Four used to have M Moore doing a couple of shows, this gives me hope in that UK TV has the balls to run with his shows at least.

[Javier Drada]

That movie is on point... It should be a must watch for everyone... America needs to wake up and face the reality of our own ignorance...

Our freedom is like blinders to the truth sometimes.

[JMJ]

Finally got to see it on a rainy Sunday morning a couple of weeks ago, and it's a great movie. A must see!!........JMJ

[houseaddict]

The statistics of the gun-related deaths/injuries really drove the point home. There were two or three hundred in other, non-third world countries in in 2002 while there were 11,000+ in the US!

Definitely a must-see for anyone living in the US.

[D J 1 3 8]

I loved the movie.

Here are two sides of the story:
The pro-gun folks who claim the film is filled with falsehoods, most of which seem bogus adn paranoid but the Willie Horton ad is pretty bad IMO.
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/
and Michael Moore's rebuttal
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

[MarkK]

idance, things are changing in France though. Gun violence is on the rise there too. Many illegal weapons coming in from the east I think.

['Magic' Juan]

The best parts, IMO, is when he confronts Dick Clark and Charleton Heston. Clark bolted, and Heston looked SO uncomfortable ....

magic_juan

[Cleo Khary]

Originally posted by Javier Drada:
That movie is on point... It should be a must watch for everyone... America needs to wake up and face the reality of our own ignorance...

Our freedom is like blinders to the truth sometimes. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

ditto!

excellent film

[AD]

Originally posted by Magic Juan:
The best parts, IMO, is when he confronts Dick Clark and Charleton Heston. Clark bolted, and Heston looked SO uncomfortable ....

magic_juan Those were two of my favorite parts of the movie too. A must see movie for everyone.

[MikeBee]

For those who've seen this already, where do you live? I don't think its showing in NY.

[AD]

Originally posted by MikeBee:
For those who've seen this already, where do you live? I don't think its showing in NY. It's on DVD now. I don't think it's playing in the theaters anymore.

[brownem]

Originally posted by Albert Diaz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MikeBee:
For those who've seen this already, where do you live? I don't think its showing in NY. It's on DVD now. I don't think it's playing in the theaters anymore. </font>[/QUOTE]ooops...aaight thanks.

[Moksha]

It's a shame that Moore seems more intent on promoting himself than his cause (in both his books and films. . .excluding Canadian Bacon, of course). His arguments, which I generally agree with, could definitely be more logically presented and less sensational.

[lyot]

Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
It's a shame that Moore seems more intent on promoting himself than his cause (in both his books and films. . .excluding Canadian Bacon, of course). His arguments, which I generally agree with, could definitely be more logically presented and less sensational. I don't particularly love his style neither, but maybe it's just that he thinks this style is best suited to get the message to the people?

[ November 15, 2003, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: lyot ]

[Brut by Faberge]

while not the most unbiased, moores style does succeed in promoting 1 essential thing: action. what does the rest of hollywood tell us meanwhile--wait on your hero..he'll save you.

whatever your thoughts on gun control, media violence, and the american psyche, i love the fact that moore touches on the importance of the undercurrents of fear and isolation that keep most people here from seeking out opportunities to become involved in the big picture through activism and their own personal strengths--in other words, shake the apathy, because truly "it doesn hurt to try."

self-promotion or not, the means are justified IMO. smile.gif

[Moksha]

Originally posted by THX-1138:
while not the most unbiased, moores style does succeed in promoting 1 essential thing: action. what does the rest of hollywood tell us meanwhile--wait on your hero..he'll save you.

whatever your thoughts on gun control, media violence, and the american psyche, i love the fact that moore touches on the importance of the undercurrents of fear and isolation that keep most people here from seeking out opportunities to become involved in the big picture through activism and their own personal strengths--in other words, shake the apathy, because truly "it doesn hurt to try."

self-promotion or not, the means are justified IMO. smile.gif He often acts almost identically to Rush Limbaugh.

I would rather see him concentrate on detailed, logical arguments than sensationalism. Plus, as neither a writer nor filmmaker, is he particularly talented. I like Roger and Me. . .but Stupid White Men and Bowling for Columbine could have both been a lot more skillfully made.

Nonetheless, in an American media landscape that all but censors left-wing views, THANK GOD he is getting his message out, through whatever means.

[lyot]

take the good with the bad .. he probably wouldn't get his message out if it wasn't for his blunt style..

[Woody Rosen]

It's been a long time since I've seen it. I saw it when it was in theaters. My favorite part was when he was interviewing Terry Nichols's relative, that guy was a fuggin NUTCASE!! He said he sleeps with a loaded pistol under his pillow, and at the end of the interview he's like holding to his head or in his mouth I think.

My only complaint with the movie was that Moore probably isn't going to change anyone's way of thinking with this movie. What I mean is that most right wingers/gun nuts aren't even going to go see a Micheal Moore movie.

I loved it though, probably need to get the DVD.

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by THX-1138:
while not the most unbiased, moores style does succeed in promoting 1 essential thing: action. what does the rest of hollywood tell us meanwhile--wait on your hero..he'll save you.

whatever your thoughts on gun control, media violence, and the american psyche, i love the fact that moore touches on the importance of the undercurrents of fear and isolation that keep most people here from seeking out opportunities to become involved in the big picture through activism and their own personal strengths--in other words, shake the apathy, because truly "it doesn hurt to try."

self-promotion or not, the means are justified IMO. smile.gif He often acts almost identically to Rush Limbaugh.

I would rather see him concentrate on detailed, logical arguments than sensationalism. Plus, as neither a writer nor filmmaker, is he particularly talented. I like Roger and Me. . .but Stupid White Men and Bowling for Columbine could have both been a lot more skillfully made.

Nonetheless, in an American media landscape that all but censors left-wing views, THANK GOD he is getting his message out, through whatever means. </font>[/QUOTE]Rush Limbaughs style works. He gets his message(good or bad) to the masses.

[DJ Duke]

Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
It's a shame that Moore seems more intent on promoting himself than his cause (in both his books and films. . .excluding Canadian Bacon, of course). His arguments, which I generally agree with, could definitely be more logically presented and less sensational. I think he is just asking questions and leaving it up to the audience. I have the DVD I I didn't find it to be liberal or conservative. He is showing the absurdity of some of things without actually saying it, but instead posing the question to the audience.... "Why is America so violent"? etc.

More movies of this genre should be released instead of the same old fluff and action. And what a disappointment the two follow up Matrix movies were. Almost ruined the first.

[DJ Duke]

Originally posted by Woody Rosen:
It's been a long time since I've seen it. I saw it when it was in theaters. My favorite part was when he was interviewing Terry Nichols's relative, that guy was a fuggin NUTCASE!! He said he sleeps with a loaded pistol under his pillow, and at the end of the interview he's like holding to his head or in his mouth I think.

My only complaint with the movie was that Moore probably isn't going to change anyone's way of thinking with this movie. What I mean is that most right wingers/gun nuts aren't even going to go see a Micheal Moore movie.

I loved it though, probably need to get the DVD. I don't understand why some people think because someone owns a gun that it makes them a "gun nut." Maybe Terry Nichols' Brother knows something we don't. I don't know, but he didn't appear nuts to me. He is right that if people knew what really goes on in the US that they would wake up revolting.

Education is the key here. I hope no one is suggesting that we are ready as a society to live without weapons? That will be years. And we certainly do not want to repeat what happened in Germany when Mr. Adolf took away the guns form the people who they had no one way of fighting back when the day came for Mr. Adolf to enforce his ways of "living."

Taking away guns from the people has been the way to a successful dictatorship throughout history. Most people that keep guns, keep them for either self protection or in case our good old Government gets out of control. I don't personal own a gun, but I would oppose the idea of removing them, until the Govenment also removed them, and until we are ready for a utopia, which is not anywhere close in sight.

Discuss.... =)

[Woody Rosen]

Originally posted by DJ Duke:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Woody Rosen:
It's been a long time since I've seen it. I saw it when it was in theaters. My favorite part was when he was interviewing Terry Nichols's relative, that guy was a fuggin NUTCASE!! He said he sleeps with a loaded pistol under his pillow, and at the end of the interview he's like holding to his head or in his mouth I think.

My only complaint with the movie was that Moore probably isn't going to change anyone's way of thinking with this movie. What I mean is that most right wingers/gun nuts aren't even going to go see a Micheal Moore movie.

I loved it though, probably need to get the DVD. I don't understand why some people think because someone owns a gun that it makes them a "gun nut." Maybe Terry Nichols' Brother knows something we don't. I don't know, but he didn't appear nuts to me. He is right that if people knew what really goes on in the US that they would wake up revolting.

Education is the key here. I hope no one is suggesting that we are ready as a society to live without weapons? That will be years. And we certainly do not want to repeat what happened in Germany when Mr. Adolf took away the guns form the people who they had no one way of fighting back when the day came for Mr. Adolf to enforce his ways of "living."

Taking away guns from the people has been the way to a successful dictatorship throughout history. Most people that keep guns, keep them for either self protection or in case our good old Government gets out of control. I don't personal own a gun, but I would oppose the idea of removing them, until the Govenment also removed them, and until we are ready for a utopia, which is not anywhere close in sight.

Discuss.... =) </font>[/QUOTE]Where in my post does it say that I think it would be good for our country to be gun free? Where did I say that if you own a gun you are an automatic gun nut? I think you may have misinterpreted what I said.

[djmarbll]

Originally posted by FranG:
Gotta love Michael Moore. His latest book is great too and has a fantastic title, " Dude, where's my Country!" My sentiments exactly!!! I'm reading the book again now.

[Moksha]

Originally posted by DJ Duke:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Woody Rosen:
It's been a long time since I've seen it. I saw it when it was in theaters. My favorite part was when he was interviewing Terry Nichols's relative, that guy was a fuggin NUTCASE!! He said he sleeps with a loaded pistol under his pillow, and at the end of the interview he's like holding to his head or in his mouth I think.

My only complaint with the movie was that Moore probably isn't going to change anyone's way of thinking with this movie. What I mean is that most right wingers/gun nuts aren't even going to go see a Micheal Moore movie.

I loved it though, probably need to get the DVD. I don't understand why some people think because someone owns a gun that it makes them a "gun nut." Maybe Terry Nichols' Brother knows something we don't. I don't know, but he didn't appear nuts to me. He is right that if people knew what really goes on in the US that they would wake up revolting.

Education is the key here. I hope no one is suggesting that we are ready as a society to live without weapons? That will be years. And we certainly do not want to repeat what happened in Germany when Mr. Adolf took away the guns form the people who they had no one way of fighting back when the day came for Mr. Adolf to enforce his ways of "living."

Taking away guns from the people has been the way to a successful dictatorship throughout history. Most people that keep guns, keep them for either self protection or in case our good old Government gets out of control. I don't personal own a gun, but I would oppose the idea of removing them, until the Govenment also removed them, and until we are ready for a utopia, which is not anywhere close in sight.

Discuss.... =) </font>[/QUOTE]I have to ask. . .is this THE DJ Duke? If so, I have to say that I LOVE all of your homage records (D2-D4, "Heard," "Trent," "Fingers," "Hustler" etc.)

Welcome to DHP!

[Moksha]

Wondering what happened to duke (click here) (http://deephousepage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=040552)

[JMNYC]

Personally, I loved the movie (just saw it Movies on Demand a few weeks ago) ... I thought the "in your face", sensationalistic approach was actually helpful to the movie, because it added an element of drama that probably kept people's interest for the length of the movie (remember this is a society plagued with attention deficit problems).

I LOVED the cartoon by the South Park guys - that was SO right on point, and when he was up in Charlton Heston's place, that was hilarious and scary at the same time.

In the end, I believe that the cycles of fear and consumption in this country are responsible for our violenct society, which he touched on but did not beleaguer us with. COPS and the various news sources are constantly bombarding us with messages that are distinctly worded and designed to make us more fearful. The "unlocked door syndrome" in Canada vs. every door locked in the U.S. is a perfect example of the result of this, and I believe it ties in quite well with the number of homocides we see vs. other countries.

"You have the right to defend your property."

Yeah, as long as you're a white conservative from the South.

Otherwise, "you have the right to remain silent."

[ November 15, 2003, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: JMNYC ]

[DJ Duke]

Originally posted by Woody Rosen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ Duke:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Woody Rosen:
It's been a long time since I've seen it. I saw it when it was in theaters. My favorite part was when he was interviewing Terry Nichols's relative, that guy was a fuggin NUTCASE!! He said he sleeps with a loaded pistol under his pillow, and at the end of the interview he's like holding to his head or in his mouth I think.

My only complaint with the movie was that Moore probably isn't going to change anyone's way of thinking with this movie. What I mean is that most right wingers/gun nuts aren't even going to go see a Micheal Moore movie.

I loved it though, probably need to get the DVD. I don't understand why some people think because someone owns a gun that it makes them a "gun nut." Maybe Terry Nichols' Brother knows something we don't. I don't know, but he didn't appear nuts to me. He is right that if people knew what really goes on in the US that they would wake up revolting.

Education is the key here. I hope no one is suggesting that we are ready as a society to live without weapons? That will be years. And we certainly do not want to repeat what happened in Germany when Mr. Adolf took away the guns form the people who they had no one way of fighting back when the day came for Mr. Adolf to enforce his ways of "living."

Taking away guns from the people has been the way to a successful dictatorship throughout history. Most people that keep guns, keep them for either self protection or in case our good old Government gets out of control. I don't personal own a gun, but I would oppose the idea of removing them, until the Govenment also removed them, and until we are ready for a utopia, which is not anywhere close in sight.

Discuss.... =) </font>[/QUOTE]Where in my post does it say that I think it would be good for our country to be gun free? Where did I say that if you own a gun you are an automatic gun nut? I think you may have misinterpreted what I said. </font>[/QUOTE]I didn't say you said it. I was referring to people in general who refer to "gun nuts" and "right wingers", which you did. It did appear from your comments that you thougt Mr. Nicholds is/was a gun nut because he sleeps with a gun. A Man in that position propbably should sleep with a gun because of the people who may want him hurt.

No offense towards you persoanlly. I was basicaly commenting on this anti-gun view in geneal.

Discuss =)

[DJ Duke]

Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ Duke:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Woody Rosen:
It's been a long time since I've seen it. I saw it when it was in theaters. My favorite part was when he was interviewing Terry Nichols's relative, that guy was a fuggin NUTCASE!! He said he sleeps with a loaded pistol under his pillow, and at the end of the interview he's like holding to his head or in his mouth I think.

My only complaint with the movie was that Moore probably isn't going to change anyone's way of thinking with this movie. What I mean is that most right wingers/gun nuts aren't even going to go see a Micheal Moore movie.

I loved it though, probably need to get the DVD. I don't understand why some people think because someone owns a gun that it makes them a "gun nut." Maybe Terry Nichols' Brother knows something we don't. I don't know, but he didn't appear nuts to me. He is right that if people knew what really goes on in the US that they would wake up revolting.

Education is the key here. I hope no one is suggesting that we are ready as a society to live without weapons? That will be years. And we certainly do not want to repeat what happened in Germany when Mr. Adolf took away the guns form the people who they had no one way of fighting back when the day came for Mr. Adolf to enforce his ways of "living."

Taking away guns from the people has been the way to a successful dictatorship throughout history. Most people that keep guns, keep them for either self protection or in case our good old Government gets out of control. I don't personal own a gun, but I would oppose the idea of removing them, until the Govenment also removed them, and until we are ready for a utopia, which is not anywhere close in sight.

Discuss.... =) </font>[/QUOTE]I have to ask. . .is this THE DJ Duke? If so, I have to say that I LOVE all of your homage records (D2-D4, "Heard," "Trent," "Fingers," "Hustler" etc.)

Welcome to DHP! </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks holmes.

Yea its me in the place to be.. Watch out fopr some heavy chit in the makings coming to a city near you. =)

Duke

[DJ Michael Terzian (Sinister)]

my all-time favourite Duke track...........


"blow" on Music for Your Ears (1st track on side A)

This is the ultimate deep house track, so much so that I bought 2 copies. So moody!!!

For this alone I thank you with sincerity.

Question though...what are the actual titles of each cut/mix on that 3-cut record????? I always wondered.

[DJ Duke]

Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
Wondering what happened to duke (click here) (http://deephousepage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=040552) Well, don't wonder too long becauase I will be back in full effect very soon.. Check www.superbadmusic.com (http://www.superbadmusic.com) for updates.

Duke

[shannoneileen]

I don't understand why some people think because someone owns a gun that it makes them a "gun nut." Maybe Terry Nichols' Brother knows something we don't. I don't know, but he didn't appear nuts to me. He is right that if people knew what really goes on in the US that they would wake up revolting.

Education is the key here. I hope no one is suggesting that we are ready as a society to live without weapons? That will be years. And we certainly do not want to repeat what happened in Germany when Mr. Adolf took away the guns form the people who they had no one way of fighting back when the day came for Mr. Adolf to enforce his ways of "living."

Taking away guns from the people has been the way to a successful dictatorship throughout history. Most people that keep guns, keep them for either self protection or in case our good old Government gets out of control. I don't personal own a gun, but I would oppose the idea of removing them, until the Govenment also removed them, and until we are ready for a utopia, which is not anywhere close in sight.

Discuss.... =)

good point...

In the end, I believe that the cycles of fear and consumption in this country are responsible for our violenct society, which he touched on but did not beleaguer us with. COPS and the various news sources are constantly bombarding us with messages that are distinctly worded and designed to make us more fearful. The "unlocked door syndrome" in Canada vs. every door locked in the U.S. is a perfect example of the result of this, and I believe it ties in quite well with the number of homocides we see vs. other countries.

"You have the right to defend your property."

Yeah, as long as you're a white conservative from the South.

Otherwise, "you have the right to remain silent."

equally good point...

guess that makes me a moderate graemlins/conf44.gif

[ November 15, 2003, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Shannon_Shawan ]

[corwin]

I don't understand why some people think because someone owns a gun that it makes them a "gun nut." Maybe Terry Nichols' Brother knows something we don't. I don't know, but he didn't appear nuts to me. He is right that if people knew what really goes on in the US that they would wake up revolting.

Education is the key here. I hope no one is suggesting that we are ready as a society to live without weapons? I've walked and driven all over the most feared sections of Los Angeles and NYC, at all hours, sometimes drunk, sometimes with pockets filled with cash, and I've never felt I needed a weapon. Were my actions wise? Probably not. But I don't believe in living in fear.

Perhaps, Mr. Nichols created a horrifying reality that he can't escape.

[JMNYC]

Originally posted by corwin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I don't understand why some people think because someone owns a gun that it makes them a "gun nut." Maybe Terry Nichols' Brother knows something we don't. I don't know, but he didn't appear nuts to me. He is right that if people knew what really goes on in the US that they would wake up revolting.

Education is the key here. I hope no one is suggesting that we are ready as a society to live without weapons? I've walked and driven all over the most feared sections of Los Angeles and NYC, at all hours, sometimes drunk, sometimes with pockets filled with cash, and I've never felt I needed a weapon. Were my actions wise? Probably not. But I don't believe in living in fear.

Perhaps, Mr. Nichols created a horrifying reality that he can't escape. </font>[/QUOTE]I wouldn't blame him so much as the training he's received being a citizen of "this here younited states". I really have no problem with people having a gun to defend themselves... the problem is fear - and the fact that our society perpetuates it in order to keep our economy strong and our people divided.

Think of the economic and political strength that the lower and middle classes would have in this country if they weren't afraid of each other.

I'm glad to hear and see that people are waking up and not living in fear - this is our only possible salvation.

[ November 15, 2003, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: JMNYC ]

[Moksha]

Studies show that hand guns DO NOT protect people. Killing assailants is RARE. If they did actually provide "protection," then there would be a lot less debate. A gun is way more likely to kill your family member than an intruder.

However, as long as the government has them, people probably ought to have the ability to protect themselves from "the man."

[corwin]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by corwin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I don't understand why some people think because someone owns a gun that it makes them a "gun nut." Maybe Terry Nichols' Brother knows something we don't. I don't know, but he didn't appear nuts to me. He is right that if people knew what really goes on in the US that they would wake up revolting.

Education is the key here. I hope no one is suggesting that we are ready as a society to live without weapons? I've walked and driven all over the most feared sections of Los Angeles and NYC, at all hours, sometimes drunk, sometimes with pockets filled with cash, and I've never felt I needed a weapon. Were my actions wise? Probably not. But I don't believe in living in fear.

Perhaps, Mr. Nichols created a horrifying reality that he can't escape. </font>[/QUOTE]I wouldn't blame him so much as the training he's received being a citizen of "this here younited states". I really have no problem with people having a gun to defend themselves... the problem is fear - and the fact that our society perpetuates it in order to keep our economy strong and our people divided.

Think of the economic and political strength that the lower and middle classes would have in this country if they weren't afraid of each other.

I'm glad to hear and see that people are waking up and not living in fear - this is our only possible salvation. </font>[/QUOTE]"this here younited states" :D

Good points but.....

Nichols is a disturbed man who doesn't want to take responsibility for his failures and fukk-upness, and has gone from frustrated to psychotic. With the same reasoning, McVeigh tried to justify his heinous transgressions. As a young, black man living in Brooklyn, I could EASILY play the Fear Card and blame game but I choose not to.

Had Moore delved deeper, I bet he would have discovered an usually strong sense of xenophobia that informs Nichols' paranoia.

[ November 15, 2003, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: corwin ]

[DJ Duke]

Originally posted by DJ Michael Terzian, a.k.a. Sinister:
my all-time favourite Duke track...........


"blow" on Music for Your Ears (1st track on side A)

This is the ultimate deep house track, so much so that I bought 2 copies. So moody!!!

For this alone I thank you with sincerity.

Question though...what are the actual titles of each cut/mix on that 3-cut record????? I always wondered. The track is "Bl;ow" By the Funky Horns. There was a second track out by the Funky Horns called "Night Sessions" on the same vibe.

Last time I heard Shelter Records were Interested in licensing the Track... let's see what happens..

Duke

[DJ Duke]

Originally posted by corwin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I don't understand why some people think because someone owns a gun that it makes them a "gun nut." Maybe Terry Nichols' Brother knows something we don't. I don't know, but he didn't appear nuts to me. He is right that if people knew what really goes on in the US that they would wake up revolting.

Education is the key here. I hope no one is suggesting that we are ready as a society to live without weapons? I've walked and driven all over the most feared sections of Los Angeles and NYC, at all hours, sometimes drunk, sometimes with pockets filled with cash, and I've never felt I needed a weapon. Were my actions wise? Probably not. But I don't believe in living in fear.

Perhaps, Mr. Nichols created a horrifying reality that he can't escape. </font>[/QUOTE]We create our own reality, but does mean the starving kids in the world could create a reality of wealth and riches? Perhaps. Perception is each one of our reality. However, sitting in jail makes it very hard to create a reality of prosper and hope. Its easy to say that "I don't believe in living in fear." However, do you fear our Government? Do you fear the IRS? Do you fear the Police? Do you fear a certain race of people? Do you fear "big brother"? Do you fear losing loved ones? Do you fear death? Maybe not, but ask yourself these questions.

1. Do you do what you do day in and day out out of routine, or because you fear that if you do not something may happen?
2. Do you stay with your spouse because you love them, or because you fear being alone?
3. Do you work where you do because you feel you have to, or because you fear not getting another job?
4. Do you pay your taxes because you feel like you are contributing, or because you fear that you may go to jail if you do not?
5. Do you walk, talk and present yourself a certain way because you like it, or because you fear that people will not accept you otherwise?

I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

Sometimes that one person that may appear crazy in the horror film screaming that the killer is in the house and nobody listens is right. Perhaps Mr. Nichols is right. Maybe someone is out to get him. Who knows, but keep a mind open to any possibility. I bet most people in Germany in 1938 would think someone telling them that Adolf is out to terminate jews and other "unwanted' people would be nuts. But history would prove otherwise.

The bottom line is this. If the people fear the Government we live in tyranny.

Discuss =)

[DJ Duke]

Good points but.....

Nichols is a disturbed man who doesn't want to take responsibility for his failures and fukk-upness, and has gone from frustrated to psychotic. With the same reasoning, McVeigh tried to justify his heinous transgressions. As a young, black man living in Brooklyn, I could EASILY play the Fear Card and blame game but I choose not to.

Had Moore delved deeper, I bet he would have discovered an usually strong sense of xenophobia that informs Nichols' paranoia. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Is it possible that Nichols is right and he can jusitfy his fears? I think so. The same way it would be justified for a jew living in Germany in 1943 to have fears of the Nazi Government. Blacks were exeprimented on through the placebo "sypholis epidemic" so I would say having some fears is not only ok, but can be healthy IF it is used as sceptisim to question, not paranoia. Better to queation out of fear than to go along to get along.

Sometimes the people screaming "they are pods" are not crazy. But they are in a difficult position to prove their point, mainly becuase most peoples first reaction is denials or ridicule. Not all people have the same exeprience either with racsial issues or any other issue. If that was the case we would all feel the same way about everything.

Just food for thought =)

[nev m]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shannon_Shawan:
[QB] I don't understand why some people think because someone owns a gun that it makes them a "gun nut." Maybe Terry Nichols' Brother knows something we don't. I don't know, but he didn't appear nuts to me. He is right that if people knew what really goes on in the US that they would wake up revolting.
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It's not that everyone that owns a gun becomes a gun nut is it? The fact of the matter is that if you own a gun there is a situation that could arise. Very often a misunderstanding, or misinterpretation of a situation, and BANG pop goes another head. Wheras if the gun wasn't there you'll just have to think again.

For example here in th UK the majority of gun licence holders are farmers. Back in the early 1970s just after we had joined up with the EEC (european economic community), and all the small farmers basically got f**ked up the ass with a Brillo Pad. Hundreds of farmers in this country were blowing their own heads off with shotguns.It is far more difficult to commit suicide without a gun. Easy to make a one second desiscion, and pull a trigger of a gun you just put in your mouth. Not so easy to wait for that train to run over your head once you hear the tracks vibrating.


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That will be years. And we certainly do not want to repeat what happened in Germany when Mr. Adolf took away the guns form the people who they had no one way of fighting back when the day came for Mr. Adolf to enforce his ways of "living."
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Errm? Mr Hitler took guns off everyone in Europe, and Russia? One question. Where the f**k is Mr Hitler now?

Tightening up the gun laws is hardly going to lead to another holocaust I think the people might have something to say about it!

Ironicaly enough Mr Hitlers life ended with a bullet. Live by the sword.................

[ November 16, 2003, 06:07 AM: Message edited by: nev m ]