Cuttin' Up vs. Letting The Music Play [Archive]

darrow

09-03-2003, 07:51 AM

Admittedly, I am under-exposed to hip hop/rap/r&b DJs, so my observation might really just be limited to my most recent experiences, but...

I noticed at the party I open for that the DJs that follow me (who play pretty much rap/hip hop/r&b) only let songs play for 2 to maybe 3 minutes before they cut/scratch their way to the next one. So I started wondering how other DJs spin and what people like.

* Do you let most songs play for a while?
* Are you more apt to switch from one song to the next quickly?
* Dancers/listeners, what do you like? Both styles or would you rather hear more of a particular style?
* Is it the case that most or many hip hop-ish DJs don't let songs play out?

Martin Red

09-03-2003, 08:05 AM

Depends on the specific music - record - track - song being played

It is more expected of hip hop DJ's to do this.

Sap

09-03-2003, 08:22 AM

Me thinks this kat needs a "History" lesson.

GROOVE VICTIM

09-03-2003, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Sap:
Me thinks this kat needs a "History" lesson. Why?

drilla

09-03-2003, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by Sap:
Me thinks this kat needs a "History" lesson. or maybe just an answer or discussion from his question...

relax.

Sap

09-03-2003, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
Me thinks this kat needs a "History" lesson. Why? [/QUOTE]"I noticed at the party I open for that the DJs that follow me (who play pretty much rap/hip hop/r&b) only let songs play for 2 to maybe 3 minutes before they cut/scratch their way to the next one".

drilla

09-03-2003, 08:31 AM

if you are playing hiphop tracks which are mostly comprised of simple loops with no real complex song patterns or melodies then i say cut them the **** up...

there are exceptions to this though...if im diggin a hip hop track and i know the third verse is coming up and the third verse is my favorite and the dj cuts it out, im not happy...

at other times when the club is jumpin and the dj is trying to keep everything fresh and live, cutting alot of hiphop tracks at two or three minutes keeps the changes fast and the crowd constantly excited.

now, when you are rockin house tracks or dance tracks and people are setting into a groove...you don't really want to just cut that groove...the groove is the essence...it is the pathway...it is the soul train....you just can't cut the shit in half...UNLESS! you are trying to totally change the vibe up and purposely change the groove...but, doing this at every record is just silly and a total mind ****.

so, yeah, that's what i think.

darrow

09-03-2003, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by Sap:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
Me thinks this kat needs a "History" lesson. Why? [/QUOTE]"I noticed at the party I open for that the DJs that follow me (who play pretty much rap/hip hop/r&b) only let songs play for 2 to maybe 3 minutes before they cut/scratch their way to the next one". [/QUOTE]you'll need to be more articulate than that. If you feel I need a history lesson, please clarify and enlighten. I have no problems with learning or re-learning or being reminded of something as long as it is done respectfully.

gabriel

09-03-2003, 08:35 AM

yeah. interesting tactic, using words by another that we've already read to illustrate the thoughts in his mind.

fascinating tactic.

so yeah, other then a dis...what's the history lesson?

GROOVE VICTIM

09-03-2003, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by Sap:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
Me thinks this kat needs a "History" lesson. Why? [/QUOTE]"I noticed at the party I open for that the DJs that follow me (who play pretty much rap/hip hop/r&b) only let songs play for 2 to maybe 3 minutes before they cut/scratch their way to the next one". [/QUOTE]Why give him a history lesson?. What I think Darrow is trying to say is that when mixing "HOUSE", especially in a Hip Hop Atmosphere, do you cut up the records, ala Terrence Parker, or do you let the songs go, a typical mix.

darrow

09-03-2003, 08:37 AM

I should also clarify also...one of the DJs plays what I'll call 70s/80s mainstream classics...stuff like...

Madonna's "Holiday"
Prince "When Doves Cry"
Kool and the Gang's "Ladies Night"

I'd say 2 minutes tops for each tune or tunes like it. I noticed that even if one of the DJs plays House...same sort of style. Very rapid succession.

It's not a criticism by the way. I find it interesting. The style seems to keep people (the dancers) energized for some reason.

darrow

09-03-2003, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
Me thinks this kat needs a "History" lesson. Why? [/QUOTE]"I noticed at the party I open for that the DJs that follow me (who play pretty much rap/hip hop/r&b) only let songs play for 2 to maybe 3 minutes before they cut/scratch their way to the next one". [/QUOTE]Why give him a history lesson?. What I think Darrow is trying to say is that when mixing "HOUSE", especially in a Hip Hop Atmosphere, do you cut up the records, ala Terrence Parker, or do you let the songs go, a typical mix. [/QUOTE]good observation of something I didn't voice, Groove.

When I was done playing on Sunday and heard the DJ after me, I started wondering about my own style as it relates to the crowd at this party. I started wondering if whether I needed to do something slightly different to keep people's attention. It's hard to gage, because I'm opening at a function where the opener is expected to be the..hmmm...atmosphere (jazzy house, latin house, salsa) so the expectation of a dancefloor of people is not really there. It's hard though as the DJ to not want some people to get out there and shake it a little, though the promoter is not expecting that.

GROOVE VICTIM

09-03-2003, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by darrow:
I should also clarify also...one of the DJs plays what I'll call 70s/80s mainstream classics...stuff like...

Madonna's "Holiday"
Prince "When Doves Cry"
Kool and the Gang's "Ladies Night"

I'd say 2 minutes tops for each tune or tunes like it. I noticed that even if one of the DJs plays House...same sort of style. Very rapid succession.

It's not a criticism by the way. I find it interesting. The style seems to keep people (the dancers) energized for some reason. I hear alot of this style of mixing on the radio during the weekends. The typical classic dance tunes from the 70s and 80s played for about 2 to 3 minutes and they slam in another classic. Highly annoying especially when you heard these songs 2 millions times already. But what really kills me is when that good classic comes in and you're knodding your head then friggin "She's Fresh" by Kool and the Gang comes on and ruins the mood.

Peace

Sap

09-03-2003, 08:42 AM

Fo real I aint dis-respecting Sparrow. All I be saying is that HipHop DJ's cut up the cuts like every 2 minutes coz that's how it started.

"Here's how it started, heard you on the radio, talking bout Rap, saying all that crap, about how we started"

Peace...

GROOVE VICTIM

09-03-2003, 08:44 AM

darrow

09-03-2003, 08:46 AM

Sap

09-03-2003, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by darrow:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
Fo real I aint dis-respecting Sparrow. All I be saying is that HipHop DJ's cut up the cuts like every 2 minutes coz that's how it started.

"Here's how it started, heard you on the radio, talking bout Rap, saying all that crap, about how we started"

Peace... I think this is my first blatant dis on DHP. Thank you for making me feel part of the family. [/QUOTE]It aint a diss son.

Jolyon

09-03-2003, 09:08 AM

Sap

09-03-2003, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by Jolyon:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
Fo real I aint dis-respecting Sparrow. All I be saying is that HipHop DJ's cut up the cuts like every 2 minutes coz that's how it started.

"Here's how it started, heard you on the radio, talking bout Rap, saying all that crap, about how we started"

Peace... Do you talk like this in real life? [/QUOTE]"Stetsosonic, the hip hop band, like sly and the family stone we will stand, up for the music, we live and play, but for now, let the rekkid play".

Jolyon

09-03-2003, 09:26 AM

Wow, Surrey must have got more ghetto since the last time I was there...

Reespec'. Fo sure.

darrow

09-03-2003, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Sap:
Fo real I aint dis-respecting Sparrow. All I be saying is that HipHop DJ's cut up the cuts like every 2 minutes coz that's how it started.

"Here's how it started, heard you on the radio, talking bout Rap, saying all that crap, about how we started"

Peace... Essentially, your answer is...it's that way because it has been that way.

Also, I wasn't asking WHY it is a certain way. There were a few questions at the end of post that werent about why hip hop DJs cut it up.

[ September 03, 2003, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: darrow ]

Sap

09-03-2003, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Jolyon:
Wow, Surrey must have got more ghetto since the last time I was there...

Reespec'. Fo sure. Back at cha son. Surrey's gotten real gizangster these days. AR15firing.gif be goin off nightly.

Jolyon

09-03-2003, 09:34 AM

darrow - maybe cos in the old days the old school hip hop djs used a lot of breaks so they were constantly cutting and chopping them up because the breaks didn't last too long on the record. so there's a tradition in hip hop djing of fast chops and "cutting to the break" or to the best bit of a record.

DeesKo

09-03-2003, 09:53 AM

IMHO...

The quick cut originally was a necessity, when people were cutting up breaks of rock or disco records for others to dance/rhyme to who otherwise wouldn't want to hear that full song... nowadays it is designed for short attention span theater. It keeps energy up but at the sacrifice of ever giving people the opportunity to enjoy the full essence of a song.

Granted, most of todays club/popular hip-hop doesn't have much substance anyway, the shallower the better, so cutting it off after the first verse isn't going to prevent you from hearing something ground breaking, life-altering or jaw dropping but thats another subject.

IMHO, don't change your style and try to run your records unless you have records that were made to be run. Let people marinate in em a while, let people have the chance to listen to a full song and hear the different instruments, the guitars come in and out, the vocals, the hooks, the WHOLE song. Granted, that means no filler or boring ish because its gotta be good enough to keep their attention, but if you ask me... if you do this, in the long run, it will help people appreciate music and songs in their full context and help break that monotony of 1,2,3 cut 1,2,3, cut.

The other comment I'm gonna make on this is that every hip-hop DJ does that (running records) but for my tastes, there are only a few in DC that do it well. If its that obvious, they ain't doin it right.

Peace

ruse

09-03-2003, 10:00 AM

hey darrow! guess what, i saw atlantic starr in minneapolis last sunday... they put on a great show, it's only two of the old members (David Lewis and DeWayne Woods) and two new ones, one of whom is from DC. they played Circles, Secret Lovers, When Love Calls, Always, and a new jam that is quite good. anyway, this relates to the topic because there was a DJ before and after their set...and he was cutting in and out of rNb classics. this seemed to keep the energy levels high, because the energy would peak everytime he went into a new mix (the song is recognized, hands go in the air, you know the drill).

darrow

09-03-2003, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by ruse:
hey darrow! guess what, i saw atlantic starr in minneapolis last sunday... they put on a great show, it's only two of the old members (David Lewis and DeWayne Woods) and two new ones, one of whom is from DC. they played Circles, Secret Lovers, When Love Calls, Always, and a new jam that is quite good. anyway, this relates to the topic because there was a DJ before and after their set...and he was cutting in and out of rNb classics. this seemed to keep the energy levels high, because the energy would peak everytime he went into a new mix (the song is recognized, hands go in the air, you know the drill). hey, what's up old man. :D Atlantic Star, eh? I had no idea any of the members were touring. I'd like to see that show. Did they sound good?

On the cuttin' it up thing...yep, I agree that the approach seems to create a lot of energy of the throwyourhandintheair type.

Deesko and you caused another wondering thought to come to mind...the energy seems to be the "ooohhh! that's my jam!!" type of energy but maybe that energy can't be sustained for more than a couple of minutes before the need to experience that feeling (ooh..that's my jam) is needed again? Instead of really feeling, enjoying, and getting into a particular song, the crowd ends energy is made up of many 2minute highs?

Djay Raare

09-03-2003, 10:14 AM

Just want to say WAAASSS UP DaRRow!!!! biggrinangel.gif dEEjAy RaaRe

ruse

09-03-2003, 10:15 AM

well, the chances are that if people are not feeling a song, then they will not be feeling it 2 minutes into it, or 4 minutes, or 8 minutes, however long it is (especially in the case of classics that are well known, so there are few surprises waiting in the song)...so they're waiting for the next mix, wondering what might come in.
atlantic starr sounded great! they played a lot of slow songs, which i didnt expect. it was the perfect setting to see them, a nightclub rather than a concert, so people could feel free to dance. apparently the SOS band is playing there on Oct. 13.

D J 1 3 8

09-03-2003, 10:19 AM

Speaking as a hip hop DJ, playing 1 & 2 verses of a song fits the genre and the club environment. Truth be told, this is how you create drama in the club. It's an art. Not everybody is great at it, but when it's done right there is no comparison.

Example: Clark Kent used to be amazing at this back in the day. I remember him playing Nice-N-Smooth's "Make It Funky". He would only play 4 LINES of the song: "Dizzy Gillespie plays the sax, me myself I like to max, red-bone booties I'm out to wax, stick up kids is out to tax" then he would drop Gang Star's "Just To Get A Rep" which samples the line "Stick Up kids is out to tax" The crowd would go fvcking crazy. Sure evrybody wanted to hear the Nice-N-Smooth, but the fact that he dropped the song that sampled it at exactly the moment the line finished just blew up the whole party. It's a tradition in hip hop and is essential to hyping the dancefloor.

The fact that Nice-N-Smooth thought Dizzy played the sax is for another thread...

darrow

09-03-2003, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by ruse:
apparently the SOS band is playing there on Oct. 13. my heart just stopped beating. :D

09-03-2003, 12:03 PM

I prefer letting the music play the way it was recorded, unless it dies or starts with just beats.

(Im)poster

09-03-2003, 07:26 PM

Speaking from the dancefloor, I have to say that it really depends on the music. I get really upset if the DJ cuts up a song I enjoy, be it a track or a vocal, a classic or something more current. I cannot appreciate Spinbad or other DJs who do all that stylistic cutting, even though they are talented. It is just frustrating and feels like I'm being teased with bits of music I want to hear.

On the other hand, I went to a party recently where they were playing Baltimore Club, with which I am not so familiar, and I enjoyed the quick, constant changes because all of the music had lots of energy and a similar sound. It was fun.

Have not been to a club that plays hip-hop and R&B in ages so I can't say anything there.

Prince HiFi

09-03-2003, 08:36 PM

I would not get stuck in a warm up spot (or any spot) just laying out the long cuts, that's boring IMO. Once you've warmed yourself up and some people are in the room (say half way thru your warmup spot) I would take it up a notch and get their attention by layering/riding something and then cutting through three tunes in that abbreviated 2 or 3 min. a tune approach and then I would lay out a few more longer tunes. That way you create a bit of excitement too during your warmup spot. Every DJ -even openers- needs some 'tricks' in his bag. My favorite lately: get a copy of George Kranz 'Din Daa Daa' and ride the Dub over anything and it instantly perks a place up.

HiFi

djyoavb

09-03-2003, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by Sap:

"Here's how it started, heard you on the radio, talking bout Rap, saying all that crap, about how we started"
hey, there's a hip-house kinda tune that samples this phrase "talking bout Rap, saying all that crap", or is it a remix of the original...? any clue? i ones heard derrick may opening with it.

regarding the issue, i'm coming from TP's school but as time goes by i'm trying harder and harder to be more patient, i realised that if u want to dig deeper and deeper it's quite hard doing it with rough cutting and fast mixing, although it's surly grabs the crowd's attention. pardon my spelling.

Nege

09-04-2003, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by DJ 138:
Speaking as a hip hop DJ, playing 1 & 2 verses of a song fits the genre and the club environment. Truth be told, this is how you create drama in the club. It's an art. Not everybody is great at it, but when it's done right there is no comparison.

It's also the element of surprise when you keep cutting songs ,that gets the crowd.
I find that after three minutes of one song that they hear every week or all the time,(or they have heard over and over for years), they get bored.So cutting quickly is neccesary for me.
But thats just speaking from what works for me.

ngeso

09-04-2003, 02:55 AM

my opinion:

use the technique(s) that suits you. now if you're someone that knows how to cut, scratch, blend, i say put ALL of those techniques to use. i know i certainly try to implement all techniques to the best of my ability, so on the night, when i'm playing a house set, there definetly will be two or three hip hop or funk cuts that get chopped in there. there'll be start/stops, pauses, interludes, the whole nine.

i don't think that a comparison of blending to cutting in order to deduce conclusive superiority of one over the other bears any substantial validity. forget all the history for a minute, and how things USED to be done, and check out Jeff Mills go through techno and house records at the rate of a new slate every 60 seconds. that stuffs grooves like a Mofo.

expanding and entertaining - should go hand-in-hand, really...

peace. ngeso.