Just a question for DHP'ers who dont have kid's...

[Dj Pat]

Would you want to have a child in this day and age?
Global warming.
Aids epidemic.
War's.
terrorism.
Child stalker's.
President Bush.
Career feilds over-crowding.
Chemical induce foods.
Poverty.
Sars ( this is just the beginning stages )
And a host of unknown's that we as humans still dont know about.
I know this seem's bizar, let's face it..it's toooo much going on in the world today.
I want to have a child, maybe my child will cure aid's.
But there is a lot of people out there who has a different veiw.
What's yours?
Peace, 1 love.
Dj Pat
Physical Heat.

[Martin Red]

It's a way of becoming immortal I suppose.
It's also gives more of a reason to live, I was talking to a friend about kids the other day, this guy has been quite a reckless person who wasn't worried about death, he has had kids and now he fears death, as he wants to see his kids grow etc.

With the number of people in the world I hope some people will decide against a family because if everyone has sizeable families, our world will become even more crammed and confusing. I would like kids but the state of the world and my own selfish state are strong at present. Also, bringing up a kid with a decent set of values when generally I look around and see a lot of values I can't connect to, some messed up parents out there - ones who can barely manage looking after themselves, this also has me thinking: - you need a license to own a dog but anyone can have kids, scary !

At present I am content with 4 nephews and nieces

"let's work out this food air deal"
Bill Hicks

[O'love]

having kids is the number one egoistical action.... the only reason one has a baby is because you want it yourself... (of course "accidents" don't count here)

Olaf

[the crackhouse]

Originally posted by O'love:
having kids is the number one egoistical action.... the only reason one has a baby is because you want it yourself... (of course "accidents" don't count here)

Olaf With all the respect I have for you my friend, this is pure BS... (hehe if I did REALLY understand what you just wrote)

I think that deciding to have babies, is to have a clear vision NOT of what the world looks like, but what you can bring to your children in this world.
As a father, I decided to have children the day I talked about it with my wife and we were both agreeing on the fact that our life was valuable, have it been hard, sometimes sad, sometimes annoying, it was worth to be lived far now !
So knowing where we were, the errors we wouldn't do anymore, the choices we made for ourselves, our goals in this shortly-long life, we decided to have children in pure responsability : life is the unique (and profound) experience we humans can have.
If you believe you can act in many ways to make you children lives comfortable, emotionnal, deep, conscious and healthy, then you choose to give life and death to someone.

But please, I know some people are egoistical when having kids, but I do think that some other people really know what they get in with such choice.
To be egoistical would be to have a kid and let it be your toy or subject for experiences, or to let him/her alone.

[martin]

Originally posted by O'love:
having kids is the number one egoistical action.... the only reason one has a baby is because you want it yourself... (of course "accidents" don't count here)

Olaf So there is no natural instinct to procreate? Yeah, how egotistical to keep the human race going.
:rolleyes:

[ngeso]

i think that o'love is pointing at people who have and raise children within an egoistic setting, and who view their kids as personal property the way they see their house or car. typically these people are irresponsibly defensive about their brood. there are too many people out there today, that choose to have kids without any sense of purpose other than the purely personal.

[O'love]

ngeso is somewhat on par... what i ment to say: no-one is asking you to create a child..if you decide to have a baby, the only reason you have is because YOU want to have it, so YOU are the one that decides...so it's a very egoistical thing.... i don't attach any good/bad-value to that, just pointing out that deciding to have a baby is like deciding to buy a car because you like having a car. Of course there's lots of unconscious things going on, nature wanting to procreate etc....

Olaf

[O'love]

Originally posted by idancetoomuch:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by O'love:
having kids is the number one egoistical action.... the only reason one has a baby is because you want it yourself... (of course "accidents" don't count here)

Olaf With all the respect I have for you my friend, this is pure BS... (hehe if I did REALLY understand what you just wrote)

I think that deciding to have babies, is to have a clear vision NOT of what the world looks like, but what you can bring to your children in this world.
As a father, I decided to have children the day I talked about it with my wife and we were both agreeing on the fact that our life was valuable, have it been hard, sometimes sad, sometimes annoying, it was worth to be lived far now !
So knowing where we were, the errors we wouldn't do anymore, the choices we made for ourselves, our goals in this shortly-long life, we decided to have children in pure responsability : life is the unique (and profound) experience we humans can have.
If you believe you can act in many ways to make you children lives comfortable, emotionnal, deep, conscious and healthy, then you choose to give life and death to someone.

But please, I know some people are egoistical when having kids, but I do think that some other people really know what they get in with such choice.
To be egoistical would be to have a kid and let it be your toy or subject for experiences, or to let him/her alone. </font>[/QUOTE]it was you (and your wife) that decided that *you* liked life, and where happy to be born...and thus *you* decided to have a baby.... maybe i cannot explain myself to well because i am not a native english speaker, but i am not talking about the raising of a child etc., but only about the decision itself... having a baby is sone out of pure egoistical reasons, because *you* like having a baby.... if you wouldn't like having a baby you wouldn't give birth to one, even if you like your life so much....

i hope i made myself a little clearer

Olaf (who is happy to be alive haha)

[O'love]

Originally posted by martin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by O'love:
having kids is the number one egoistical action.... the only reason one has a baby is because you want it yourself... (of course "accidents" don't count here)

Olaf So there is no natural instinct to procreate? Yeah, how egotistical to keep the human race going.
:rolleyes: </font>[/QUOTE]of course, i think the main reason people decide to have babies is a instinct of nature.... to spread the DNA..... but that still can mean it's an egoistical decision...people are not having baby's because its so much fun for the kid nextdoor to have a friend to play with ;)

Olaf

[martin]

Surely, if you are acting on instinct it is not egotistical?

[the crackhouse]

Originally posted by O'love:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by idancetoomuch:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by O'love:
having kids is...balablabla...don't count here)

Olaf With all the respect ... bolablabalabla.....to let him/her alone. </font>[/QUOTE]it was you (and .....blablabla......myself a little clearer

Olaf (who is happy to be alive haha) </font>[/QUOTE]Well Olaf, I don't know which action is not egoistical, but not being a english native either, I think this discussion can go in circles quickly hihihi...
I dunno what you're pointing out, but how could having a baby could be egoistical, when it's made by 2 persons ?...

Life is our only experience, and I think that says all about the envy of having kids : your life will determine this choice. I will or will not give life to someone else.

But if you're true to yourself, if you don't want kids, you should kick your parents asses....

[O'love]

Originally posted by martin:
Surely, if you are acting on instinct it is not egotistical? it still is..because in the end *you* decide... the reason for the decision has nothing to do with the end-result..

Olaf

[O'love]

Originally posted by idancetoomuch:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by O'love:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by idancetoomuch:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by O'love:
having kids is...balablabla...don't count here)

Olaf With all the respect ... bolablabalabla.....to let him/her alone. </font>[/QUOTE]it was you (and .....blablabla......myself a little clearer

Olaf (who is happy to be alive haha) </font>[/QUOTE]Well Olaf, I don't know which action is not egoistical, but not being a english native either, I think this discussion can go in circles quickly hihihi...
I dunno what you're pointing out, but how could having a baby could be egoistical, when it's made by 2 persons ?...

Life is our only experience, and I think that says all about the envy of having kids : your life will determine this choice. I will or will not give life to someone else.

But if you're true to yourself, if you don't want kids, you should kick your parents asses.... </font>[/QUOTE]mmm i guess i don't have such negative associations when i say "egoistic" ... i just mean: it's your own decision, so this means it's something that is done by yourself, your ego, eg egoistic, you're thinking about yourself, that you like to have a baby (for whatever reason)... not of someone else... sorry i find it very hard to explain in english what i mean to say.... i don't mean anything negative with it though....

Olaf

[the crackhouse]

Originally posted by O'love: bla bla bla ?
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by idancetoomuch: blu blu blu !

Originally posted by O'love: bla bli bla...
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by idancetoomuch: BLU blu blu ?...
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by O'love: blu bla bla bli bli
[qb] bla blu bli blo blo....
Olaf </font>Here's my answer : if nothing bla bla blu is negative blo bla bla, well everything bla bla is fine -bla (blu bli bli).

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by martin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by O'love:
having kids is the number one egoistical action.... the only reason one has a baby is because you want it yourself... (of course "accidents" don't count here)

Olaf So there is no natural instinct to procreate? Yeah, how egotistical to keep the human race going.
:rolleyes: </font>[/QUOTE]Correct me if I am wrong, isn't the instinct lead more by the the need to ****, not procreate ?

[O'love]

Originally posted by Martin Red:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by O'love:
having kids is the number one egoistical action.... the only reason one has a baby is because you want it yourself... (of course "accidents" don't count here)

Olaf So there is no natural instinct to procreate? Yeah, how egotistical to keep the human race going.
:rolleyes: </font>[/QUOTE]Correct me if I am wrong, isn't the instinct lead more by the the need to ****, not procreate ? </font>[/QUOTE]making people horny is nature's smart way to make us procreate ;)

Olaf

[Dj Pat]

Originally posted by O'love:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Martin Red:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by O'love:
having kids is the number one egoistical action.... the only reason one has a baby is because you want it yourself... (of course "accidents" don't count here)

Olaf So there is no natural instinct to procreate? Yeah, how egotistical to keep the human race going.
:rolleyes: </font>[/QUOTE]Correct me if I am wrong, isn't the instinct lead more by the the need to ****, not procreate ? </font>[/QUOTE]making people horny is nature's smart way to make us procreate ;)

Olaf </font>[/QUOTE]Well, back on topic.
What about in this day and sage?
how would you or anyone feel haveing a kid when the future seem so bleek?
Dj Pat
Physical Heat.

[O'love]

as i said above: my opinion is that having children has nothing to do with how one sees the future for the kid..it's only how one sees his/her/their lifes with a kid....

i think if you can predict the future you can make a lot of money.... ;)

now for a little more serious and personal: i like kids, luckily my gf is 7 years younger so there is plenty of time for me to decide at 30 years now, but there is a huge difference between my emotion and my ratio.... listening to my emotions i would love having a kid, but listening to my ratio i am almost sure i don't want to give up 80% of my time for 15 years or longer to raise a kid.. i love my life the way i do it right now (making and listening to music, going out etc.etc.) and i don't think i want to give up a large part of that...but of course nature has lots of ways to change my mind ;)

Olaf

[darrow]

Blue

I think every generation has thought the world was going to hell in a handbasket. There have always been wars, plagues, sketchy political leaders, poverty, etc. That stuff is not specific to life in the 21st century. I think we've survived through all of that stuff for hundreds and hundreds of years because frankly, there's a lot of good that counteracts the bad. We simply forget about it because it's not ever in the headlines.

[And]

Originally posted by Blue:
Would you want to have a child in this day and age?
Global warming.
Aids epidemic.
War's.
terrorism.
Child stalker's.
President Bush.
Career feilds over-crowding.
Chemical induce foods.
Poverty.
Sars ( this is just the beginning stages )
And a host of unknown's that we as humans still dont know about.
I know this seem's bizar, let's face it..it's toooo much going on in the world today.
I want to have a child, maybe my child will cure aid's.
But there is a lot of people out there who has a different veiw.
What's yours?
Peace, 1 love.
Dj Pat
Physical Heat. Well when you put it that way ... biggrinangel.gif
Right now and for as long as I can remember the answer to your question has been no. I've thought about a good number of the problems you've listed but in addition ... I've never liked the idea of things you can't undo - children being one of them, once they're here ... (The way I think) - once I have one, I have one.
I'm selfish maybe - I can barely take care of myself sometimes and when I think of some of the things I've been through ... the idea of a kid through those times scares me.
Also I'm the first of 6 children. I've changed hundreds of nappys, made a gazillion formulas, sterilized bottles, stayed home to babysit, pushed prams, treated wounds, stopped fights, watched countless hours of children's programming, helped with homework and papers enough for a lifetime. Plus the trust/good relationship factor hasn't helped change my opinion in any way.

[lola desire]

there are always challenges in the world. there is always danger. there are always people who will try to harm other people.

too often children are underestimated: we must respect children as people (not just after they've gotten degrees and earn their own money) that we have invited into our lives.

i think through children, there is hope to bring about a new, more positive reality: we must allow them to create.

[Drrtynewyork]

Originally posted by Blue:
Would you want to have a child in this day and age?
Global warming.
Aids epidemic.
War's.
terrorism.
Child stalker's.
President Bush.
Career feilds over-crowding.
Chemical induce foods.
Poverty.
Sars ( this is just the beginning stages )
And a host of unknown's that we as humans still dont know about.
I know this seem's bizar, let's face it..it's toooo much going on in the world today.
I want to have a child, maybe my child will cure aid's.
But there is a lot of people out there who has a different veiw.
What's yours?
Peace, 1 love.
Dj Pat
Physical Heat. not much difference rfom my childhood, so the answer is yes

[darrow]

I don't support the notion that people shouldn't have kids because the world is full of bad things, but this article seemed to fit into the thread...

Teen Fight Club @ Camp (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43481-2003Jul24.html)

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by O'love:
having kids is the number one egoistical action.... the only reason one has a baby is because you want it yourself... (of course "accidents" don't count here)

Olaf Yep, I got 5 reasons to look and admire myself everyday. Especially the one (13 year-old) that constantly defy me and tell me how unfair we are. Yep very self gratifying graemlins/stupid.gif

[SMOOTH87]

I do feel times are harder and kids are exposed to more now than when I was growing up. I still do want to have a kid with the right woman but only when I am ready to and money is not an issuse.

[prussell]

Originally posted by Blue:

Global warming.
Aids epidemic.
War's.
terrorism.
Child stalker's.
President Bush.
Career feilds over-crowding.
Chemical induce foods.
Poverty.
Sars ( this is just the beginning stages )
And a host of unknown's that we as humans still dont know about.
Like DJ Doug Gomez said, sounds like my childhood; let's compare to problems in the 80's:

Reagan & Bush
AIDS
child stalkers/kidnapping (remember Adam Walsh?)
terrorism
Cold War
Nuclear war paranoia ("The Day After", etc)
chemically induced foods
razor blades in Halloween candy
unemployment
poverty
Richard Simmons graemlins/acclaim.gif

Seriously, though...like was previously mentioned, all generations have their social/economic problems. Nostalgia wipes these problems away & makes us think we are living in some current hell, as if things were always better 'then', i.e. "I Love The 80's"....

Nobody ever quit shtupping each other due to the Great Depression, Black Death, Civil War, etc; if I wait until things get 'better' to have kids, I'll be waiting forever.
Parents: raise your kids to make a positive difference in this world, not just to be 'successful'.
Also, buy them an Atari.
Make them buy their own Intellivision.... :D

.pr

[prussell]

Originally posted by lola desire:
too often children are underestimated.

we must allow them to create. Well said.
Too much energy I think is focused on marketing to tweens & their purchasing power than with guiding them to more positive, creative lives.

.pr

[So easy a protic can do it (QUAD)]

NOT IN THIS LIFE TIME. TOO MUCH TO WORRY ABOUT- WITH RESPONSIBILITY AND ALL, I'M NOT MENTALLY UP TO IT. VERY DESTROYED CHILDHOOD OF MY OWN, PLUS OTHER ISSUES THAT I HAVE TO DEAL WITH FIRST. :(