Progress...a new school

[liL Ray]

...is it or isn't it?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/07/28/gay.school.ap/index.html

is this a different form of segregation(please, no horrible play on this word, thank you).

I see it as a good move(and a great tribute to the namesake of the school)...but should it come to this...???

Discuss.

[ July 28, 2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: liL Ray ]

[D J 1 3 8]

I suppose it is segregation, but we all know the drama that regular kids catch in NY high schools every day. I can only imagine gay kids have it twice as hard. Being a teenager is hard enough. I'm glad these kids will have some kind of sanctuary and some place that lets them know they're not alone. Perhaps one day this will be uneccesary.

[rob gregory]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
I suppose it is segregation, but we all know the drama that regular kids catch in NY high schools every day. I can only imagine gay kids have it twice as hard. Being a teenager is hard enough. I'm glad these kids will have some kind of sanctuary and some place that lets them know they're not alone. Perhaps one day this will be uneccesary. On the other hand, does this really prepare them for the "real" world.

I guess all of those who are smaller, weaker and less agressive that are left in regular high school are just assed out.

Not sure what I really think at this time.

[Leslie]

On the one hand I was I think its a good thing - given the harrassement gay kids get in school, on the other hand I am not sure its a good idea because once high school is over there is no "exclusively" gay next step for them to go to as far as further education or training for a career. BUT, if this is an entity that will prevent those kids from dropping out, how can we say its not a good thing. Very complicated issue indeed.

[Musica]

I read about this school a few years ago, it wasn't publicized too much. the school was started so that these students would feel comfortable amongst their peers. The Bd. of Ed realized there was a high rate of drop outs due to taunting and bashings.

[And]

I think this is a STUPID idea.
-
Don't the bullies have a better success rate now? I mean if I was looking for gay kids to beat up, I'd start by hanging out at the gay schools. My success rate would be 100% then. graemlins/stupid.gif

[D J 1 3 8]

Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
On the other hand, does this really prepare them for the "real" world.

I guess all of those who are smaller, weaker and less agressive that are left in regular high school are just assed out.
Interesting point. there are definitely kids who aren't gay who catch hell in school. I suppose they could use a sanctuary too, but what's the criteria?

As for preparing you for the real world, however, outcasts don't get beat down and ridiculed every day in the real world. That is much more likely to happen in a school environment. Protecting kids from daily beatings and ridicule doesn't seem like a bad idea. But I do agree it's a complex issue.

[Friday]

It is just another form of exclusion.

Instead of teaching all our young ones to be willing to include and accept all that are different then we percieve to be "normal", we are establishing more reason for prejudice and violence to exist.

Stating within the article "Is there a different way to teach homosexuals? Is there gay math? This is wrong," Long said. "There's no reason these children should be treated separately." and yet they are. jmo.

[Mike Johnson]

Not really sure where to come out on this. On the one hand, at the end of the day people tend to find comfort in the company of others who are similar to them in some way, be it race, economic disposition, age, etc. It serves as a means of comraderie, and for some, as a means protection. However, on the other hand, having a school like this may reinforce for some the stigma that gays don't belong as included and accepted members of society, and it may anger gays who have faught to make inclusion and acceptance a reality.

Interesting, though. I guess it's no different than an all girls school or an all boys school (where I sent my son for 7th and 8th grades, at a critical period in his life when socializing with girls was becoming too much of a focus, all to the detriment of his grade performance).

In the end, a school like this is merely another option in place to hopefully help children succeed. Good intentions? I guess we'll see.

[jimmymack-2000]

I wonder what employers will do/think when they see "Harvey Milk High School" on a resume...

[Musica]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
I wonder what employers will do/think when they see "Harvey Milk High School" on a resume... Hopefully they'll look at that person's qualifications and IF they graduated from high school period. From my understanding Harvey Milk was a prominent figure in San Francisco.

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by Musica:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
I wonder what employers will do/think when they see "Harvey Milk High School" on a resume... Hopefully they'll look at that person's qualifications and IF they graduated from high school period. </font>[/QUOTE]yeah, and I know where you can get a bridge to buy at very cheap rates....great point, jimmymack-2000!

[der geile hund]

Originally posted by Musica:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
I wonder what employers will do/think when they see "Harvey Milk High School" on a resume... Hopefully they'll look at that person's qualifications and IF they graduated from high school period. From my understanding Harvey Milk was a prominent figure in San Francisco. </font>[/QUOTE]Harvey Milk was the first openly gay Supervisor in San Francisco. Another Supervisor - conservative, ex-cop, freak - shot him and Mayor George Moscone to death.
The creepy thing about last week's NY City Hall shooting is that almost the exact same thing happened in SF in the 1970s.

[Shalewa]

I think that expansion of a limited alternative program into a full fledged school reflects a reality that I encountered as a teching artist in highschools. There are lots of kids who are out as gay and many of them are under real physical threat from their peers, not to mention the emotional threats. BIGGER threats I saw were not being bashed by schoolmates but not having access to anyone else who was feeling like you do and having to go home to parents who were dramatically hostile to you. At one highschool-based program that I taught in I had a mother tell her son who was out at school but not officially out at home that he could not take dance because he, "was already a flying fairy". This woman actually said this to the counselor who was trying to get him the schedule he wanted. This was a kid who couldn't get it together to talk to his mom about what he would walk up to anybody at school and say and there was no one close by who could do more than refer him to Hettrick-Martin (A social service organization that serves GLBT youth) and pray. Maybe this school will help kids like him.

[Leslie]

Originally posted by 6 23:
I think this is a STUPID idea.
-
Don't the bullies have a better success rate now? I mean if I was looking for gay kids to beat up, I'd start by hanging out at the gay schools. My success rate would be 100% then. graemlins/stupid.gif I am so not understanding where you are coming from with this response.....

[Cheddar]

This is like a spliff, forget about the problems now but when you graduate (sober up) problems still there.
There seems to be an agenda (I have read many theories about a few) and those people in control are using the youth.

[miss al boogie]

Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
I suppose it is segregation, but we all know the drama that regular kids catch in NY high schools every day. I can only imagine gay kids have it twice as hard. Being a teenager is hard enough. I'm glad these kids will have some kind of sanctuary and some place that lets them know they're not alone. Perhaps one day this will be uneccesary. On the other hand, does this really prepare them for the "real" world.

I guess all of those who are smaller, weaker and less agressive that are left in regular high school are just assed out.

Not sure what I really think at this time. </font>[/QUOTE]not exactly. a lot of these kids have seen too much of the real world as it is and it is a place for them to be more comfortable. a lot of these kids have been kicked out by their parents, beaten, raped, etc. this isn't just about high school peers, it's a home for some who have very little home at all.

[miss al boogie]

Originally posted by 6 23:
I think this is a STUPID idea.
-
Don't the bullies have a better success rate now? I mean if I was looking for gay kids to beat up, I'd start by hanging out at the gay schools. My success rate would be 100% then. graemlins/stupid.gif not when you've got all your 'girls' there to back you up (excuse the stereotype, but i've worked near the high school (it isn't new by the way) and i've heard the kids say this.) unlikely, these kids are tougher in numbers rather than a minority of 1 or 2 openly gay kids in your local high school.

[miss al boogie]

Originally posted by 1343:
This is like a spliff, forget about the problems now but when you graduate (sober up) problems still there.
There seems to be an agenda (I have read many theories about a few) and those people in control are using the youth. you don't get a lot of background on the high school with the article. the institute also assists them with part-time job attainment and real life skills. the school isn't about pampering, it's about safety and protection for some hours of the day.

[miss al boogie]

more info: Hetrick-Martin Institute LGBT Youth stats (http://www.hmi.org/Community/LGBTQYouthStatistics/default.aspx)

also, check the general website: www.hmi.org (http://www.hmi.org)

[Cheddar]

Originally posted by al boogie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 1343:
This is like a spliff, forget about the problems now but when you graduate (sober up) problems still there.
There seems to be an agenda (I have read many theories about a few) and those people in control are using the youth. you don't get a lot of background on the high school with the article. the institute also assists them with part-time job attainment and real life skills. the school isn't about pampering, it's about safety and protection for some hours of the day. </font>[/QUOTE]I am not really saying that the school is bad, what I am saying is that it is sheilding these kids from a reality which will just become more harsh as the group of people who harass gay individuals will find other ways to express their disapproval as Ray pointed out with the resume issue.

[miss al boogie]

Originally posted by 1343:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by al boogie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 1343:
This is like a spliff, forget about the problems now but when you graduate (sober up) problems still there.
There seems to be an agenda (I have read many theories about a few) and those people in control are using the youth. you don't get a lot of background on the high school with the article. the institute also assists them with part-time job attainment and real life skills. the school isn't about pampering, it's about safety and protection for some hours of the day. </font>[/QUOTE]I am not really saying that the school is bad, what I am saying is that it is sheilding these kids from a reality which will just become more harsh as the group of people who harass gay individuals will find other ways to express their disapproval as Ray pointed out with the resume issue. </font>[/QUOTE]graemlins/conf44.gif i don't get shielding....
the point is these kids have already experienced the harassment and know they'll get it regardless. and they're going to get it outside of the school as well. the school is providing SOME hours of sanity, not sheltering these kids from life. i don't understand why you're automatically assuming that.

[ July 29, 2003, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: al boogie ]

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

I know I will catch Hell for this but here is my take on it.

Society has made our children weak, vunerable and clueless to the real world. I believe that the school is a bad idea because instead of making bullies responsible the easy way out is to leave the bullies alone and exclude the children that are more likely to become under attack. That money could have been used to educate children on different types of cultures, lifestyles, personalities and safety. However this school will make them comfortable in their surroundings in order to learn and grow. Afterwards, then what? The world - society still have conflict with the gay, bi-sexual and transgendered children. I remembered growing up and fighting bullies just because of my color (in a black neighborhood) and others thought I was trying to be too good, thinking I am cute. Where was my school?! graemlins/rofl.gif Why didn't anyone stop them?

If we don't teach the children to stand up for themselves, The Board of Education might as well start building schools for bi-racial, middle-eastern, christian, white supremicist, eccentric children etc. I got a better idea; get a school for the bullies to attend so they can feel welcomed and have a sense of belonging because they will have nothing to live for now :rolleyes:

[ July 29, 2003, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: DiscoLady ]

[MYOR]

I think its a great idea.. too many gay kids go thru a state of depression because they don't have people that can understand them which can lead to suicide.. Especially in the teen years... And lets face it most of the harrasment they will get will probably be in high school.. We all know how compasionate high school kids are..NOT!!! In the real world imo, people are a little bit more opened minded or at least keep their thougts to themselves.. in highschool its all about showing how much power you have over others..or the fear of the idea of a gay person. so naturally..lets pick on the gay kid..

So why not give these kids a few hours with people that understand them and can help them thru difficult time... It is hard enough being a teen.. Its 10X more difficult being an gay teen in high school... graemlins/conf44.gif

[Cheddar]

Just my opinion, and I agree with you that a few hours of sanity is well deserved.

IMO The reasons why a school like this is created will still be present when they graduate.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by 1343:
Just my opinion, and I agree with you that a few hours of sanity is well deserved.

IMO The reasons why a school like this is created will still be present when they graduate. But not to the degree that exist in highschool.. We all know most adults will never do what they did in highschool... We are more aware of the harm we can cause.. Not to say that there still won't be a few a$$holes who have not learned shyt and still act like high school kids...

[Monny JcIntosh]

Gay kids can be shitty too, I'd imagine. This school, I guess, is just the same as any other in the "hard knocks" department. The difference being that you aren't going to get the extra hassle over your sexuality. I'm sure the kids that graduate from there will cope with every day life just fine, and will stand a far better chance than they might have elsewhere.

[ July 29, 2003, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: Jonny McIntosh ]

[darrow]

I don't know anything about the school, but the concept is an interesting one.

My first thought was that this school will shelter kids from the real world and that they will not be prepared for that world upon graduation. I'm not so sure about that, after giving it more thought.

My assumption is that many if not most of the kids that would go to this school are out, and not just during the hours of 8 to 3 or whatever the school hours might be. Many of these kids probably strongly identify themselves as gay. Many probably don't hide their sexuality. Many are not in the closet (unlike many teenagers who struggle quietly and desperately with sexuality issues). Before and after school, they are probably out also.

If my assumptions are correct, then they are already living the real world, probably much more so than any teenager. They probably face homophobia outside of the classroom and are forced on some level to have to deal with it and learn how to respond to it.

I have a feeling the highschool dynamics of peer pressure, fitting in, self-confidence, etc. are still going to be present. Those things go on in the adult world, even in all gay settings, so there's no reason to believe those dynamics will not be present in the school.

It would be interesting to follow the progress of the kids and to watch the impact on them, from the social aspects to the educational aspects.

[eileen]

i'm on the side of thinking it's more bullshit public school system problem-avoidance.

they can't keep the gay kids safe at school. so they ship them off to their own school INSTEAD of keeping the bullying homophobic kids in line.

what a way for the school system to avoid it's responsibility for teaching the kids to respect each other. instead they just silently condoning the behavior of the aggressive homophobic assholes.

this was the same argument they used to keep schools segregated "it's for the (minority) kids safety". as if the homophobic kids have no ability to control themselves? what are they, animals? they can't be taught?

the point of schools is TEACHING kids, as in TEACHING them to respect each other and not kick each others asses because they are different.

if we give up on teaching kids and allow the idea that schools are going to be just as ****ed up as the ****ed up adult world we live in, then all hope is lost.

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by eileen:
i'm on the side of thinking it's more bullshit public school system problem-avoidance.

they can't keep the gay kids safe at school. so they ship them off to their own school INSTEAD of keeping the bullying homophobic kids in line.

what a way for the school system to avoid it's responsibility for teaching the kids to respect each other. instead they just silently condoning the behavior of the aggressive homophobic assholes.

this was the same argument they used to keep schools segregated "it's for the (minority) kids safety". as if the homophobic kids have no ability to control themselves? what are they, animals? they can't be taught?

the point of schools is TEACHING kids, as in TEACHING them to respect each other and not kick each others asses because they are different.

if we give up on teaching kids and allow the idea that schools are going to be just as ****ed up as the ****ed up adult world we live in, then all hope is lost. very good point...

[Friday]

Originally posted by eileen:
i'm on the side of thinking it's more bullshit public school system problem-avoidance.

they can't keep the gay kids safe at school. so they ship them off to their own school INSTEAD of keeping the bullying homophobic kids in line.

what a way for the school system to avoid it's responsibility for teaching the kids to respect each other. instead they just silently condoning the behavior of the aggressive homophobic assholes.

this was the same argument they used to keep schools segregated "it's for the (minority) kids safety". as if the homophobic kids have no ability to control themselves? what are they, animals? they can't be taught?

the point of schools is TEACHING kids, as in TEACHING them to respect each other and not kick each others asses because they are different.

if we give up on teaching kids and allow the idea that schools are going to be just as ****ed up as the ****ed up adult world we live in, then all hope is lost. Preach!

[Martin Red]

I get a blank webpage from your link Ray, can you copy and paste it please.

I get the idea it is a school which is segregated.


Not the way forward, unless people are expected to leave school and enter a big protective balloon.


In this country the home secretary tells people they should speak english in the home so they don't alienate themselves from the rest of the UK, is that wrong ?

[Monny JcIntosh]

But it isn't segregation. Kids aren't told: there's a special school for you now, we don't have to deal with it. But they have the option if that's what they want. I don't see a problem with giving someone what's basically a refuge? Especially if the moddy coddling fears are misguided - why should some kids suffer while society learns a bit of tolerance?

[liL Ray]

Originally posted by Martin Red:
I get a blank webpage from your link Ray, can you copy and paste it please.

try this one...


http://www.msnbc.com/news/945134.asp?cp1=1#BODY

[darrow]

It might be helpful for people to read more about the non-profit that started the school. Here's the site... Hetrick Martin Institute (http://www.hmi.org/)

It sounds like the organization provides all sort of services to non-heterosexual teens. The school they started and finance is just one of the services.

After looking at the site, I don't get the impression that the school is a kneejerk reaction to homophobia in today's school system or a way of avoiding the problem. It seems to simply be an alternative for some people.

[Brut by Faberge]

Originally posted by eileen:
i'm on the side of thinking it's more bullshit public school system problem-avoidance.

they can't keep the gay kids safe at school. so they ship them off to their own school INSTEAD of keeping the bullying homophobic kids in line.

what a way for the school system to avoid it's responsibility for teaching the kids to respect each other. instead they just silently condoning the behavior of the aggressive homophobic assholes.

this was the same argument they used to keep schools segregated "it's for the (minority) kids safety". as if the homophobic kids have no ability to control themselves? what are they, animals? they can't be taught?

the point of schools is TEACHING kids, as in TEACHING them to respect each other and not kick each others asses because they are different.

if we give up on teaching kids and allow the idea that schools are going to be just as ****ed up as the ****ed up adult world we live in, then all hope is lost. great point! and what about the kids who CAN'T COME OUT? the majority of gays do not come out until their late teens-early 20s, like me, because of pressure from family. and i caught more hell at home than i ever did at high school when i was very afraid of my sexuality.

i think this is an interesting experiment and i wish all those kids the best, but no school of this sort is going to change what's in peoples' hearts, which is where the real problem lies.

peace.

[miss al boogie]

most people are forming opinions about the school before knowing anything about it.

this is not a school set up by the public school system, this is a non-profit organization formed on it's own. i'm not sure if they get government funding or not.

nobody is saying stop educating kids about this or stop preventing harassment in public schools. why does a school for 100 gay kids determine that we want our public schools to cop out on this?? in the meantime, let's never open the doors to the Harvey Milk school until we solve these problems?? y'all kids are just gonna have to deal with this until the public school gets even some of its shit together...how bout that??

but lord knows, i gave up on public schools a LOOOOONG time ago. i can't rely on the government anymore to provide these kids with proper education or safety...that's just my http://deephousepage.com/smilies/twocents.gif when i have kids, i plan on home schooling or charter schooling...

[mhd]

i'm for anything that will get kids to attend school and focus on education, if this school will increase attendance and test scores and reduce violence then they will succeed. all of the other arguments about "real world" don't really make sense.
note to al boogie: the worst thing you could do is give up on the public school system, its not really the government teaching children its us teaching them

[Leslie]

Originally posted by mhd:
i'm for anything that will get kids to attend school and focus on education, if this school will increase attendance and test scores and reduce violence then they will succeed. all of the other arguments about "real world" don't really make sense.
note to al boogie: the worst thing you could do is give up on the public school system, its not really the government teaching children its us teaching them That is my main argument which I stated in my original comment - if it keeps kids from dropping out and gaining the confidence to possibly go on to higher education if that is their choice then I do not see the harm in it.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
i'm for anything that will get kids to attend school and focus on education, if this school will increase attendance and test scores and reduce violence then they will succeed. all of the other arguments about "real world" don't really make sense.
note to al boogie: the worst thing you could do is give up on the public school system, its not really the government teaching children its us teaching them That is my main argument which I stated in my original comment - if it keeps kids from dropping out and gaining the confidence to possibly go on to higher education if that is their choice then I do not see the harm in it. </font>[/QUOTE]on the real, when you made your comment, i thought about hbcu's as traditional places where they have blossomed after high school, both in and out of the closet

[Friday]

Well I suppose what we need now is a school for the nerds and social outcasts....Lord knows we don't need another Columbine.

[mhd]

look at it this way, public school is a system that all taxpayers pay into, regardless if you have kids, the purpose is to educate and socialize children, does it matter that we do it one uniform way or several alternate ways? success is defined by the results, so far, at least in cities and among the poor, we have failed miserably at educating poor children, at least lately. this school will be a success

[Friday]

Originally posted by mhd:
look at it this way, public school is a system that all taxpayers pay into, regardless if you have kids, the purpose is to educate and socialize children, does it matter that we do it one uniform way or several alternate ways? success is defined by the results, so far, at least in cities and among the poor, we have failed miserably at educating poor children, at least lately. this school will be a success I can agree to a certain point about the success of the school, but have we not failed at educating the well off students too. They will go into this world creating more of an imbalance to whatever elists ideology they have....then the end result will be...too bad for the poor kids. Double edge sword so to speak. Inclusion is the answer not exclusion.

[mhd]

Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
look at it this way, public school is a system that all taxpayers pay into, regardless if you have kids, the purpose is to educate and socialize children, does it matter that we do it one uniform way or several alternate ways? success is defined by the results, so far, at least in cities and among the poor, we have failed miserably at educating poor children, at least lately. this school will be a success I can agree to a certain point about the success of the school, but have we not failed at educating the well off students too. They will go into this world creating more of an imbalance to whatever elists ideology they have....then the end result will be...too bad for the poor kids. Double edge sword so to speak. Inclusion is the answer not exclusion. </font>[/QUOTE]when has it not been too bad for the poor kids, its like that all over the world. and yes we have failed to educate all children, that's why innovations like this are so attractive. the beauty is that it is a public school. lets not forget that its not a boarding school and the kids "live" beyond the classroom

[Bobby]

Anyone that supports something as stupid as this needs Jesus. It's amazing how depravity is now the norm and anyone that speaks out against it is considered wrong.

[Bobby]

This is taking special ed to a whole other level.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Bobby:
Anyone that supports something as stupid as this needs Jesus. It's amazing how depravity is now the norm and anyone that speaks out against it is considered wrong. i rest my case

[Bill Blake]

Originally posted by mhd:
the worst thing you could do is give up on the public school systemThis is for sure.

[Bobby]

Well at least all the butch gym teachers will feel at home.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Bobby:
Well at least all the butch gym teachers will feel at home. just how homophobic are you?

[Friday]

Originally posted by Bobby:
Anyone that supports something as stupid as this needs Jesus. It's amazing how depravity is now the norm and anyone that speaks out against it is considered wrong. Are you for real graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[Leslie]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
i'm for anything that will get kids to attend school and focus on education, if this school will increase attendance and test scores and reduce violence then they will succeed. all of the other arguments about "real world" don't really make sense.
note to al boogie: the worst thing you could do is give up on the public school system, its not really the government teaching children its us teaching them That is my main argument which I stated in my original comment - if it keeps kids from dropping out and gaining the confidence to possibly go on to higher education if that is their choice then I do not see the harm in it. </font>[/QUOTE]on the real, when you made your comment, i thought about hbcu's as traditional places where they have blossomed after high school, both in and out of the closet </font>[/QUOTE]So true!

[Bobby]

School for the blind, school for the deaf, yes. School for gay...do y'all realize how ridiculous that sounds.

[mhd]

Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bobby:
Anyone that supports something as stupid as this needs Jesus. It's amazing how depravity is now the norm and anyone that speaks out against it is considered wrong. Are you for real graemlins/jpshakehead.gif </font>[/QUOTE]seems a bit mighty real to me

[Bill Blake]

Originally posted by mhd:
success is defined by the resultsthis is for sure too.

[Friday]

Originally posted by Bobby:
Anyone that supports something as stupid as this needs Jesus. It's amazing how depravity is now the norm and anyone that speaks out against it is considered wrong. It is people like you that makes these schools so goddam necessary, unfortunately. Wake the **** up! And tell that to your Jesus!

THIS is what I am talking about...kids in our schools systems, the blatant ignorant morons who will grow up to think they are better and above all. graemlins/cussing.gif

[ July 29, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: gf ]

[domodisco]

Originally posted by Bobby:
Anyone that supports something as stupid as this needs Jesus. It's amazing how depravity is now the norm and anyone that speaks out against it is considered wrong. Anyone who is stupid enough to believe and post something this ignorant needs to re-read the words of Jesus. Fool. YOUR words and beliefs are depraved.

[ July 29, 2003, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: domodisco ]

[Musica]

Bashers, tormentors, beaters, tongue lashers and anyone the promotes violence against anyone that is different from them....needs Jesus or God biggrinangel.gif !

[JL]

Originally posted by domodisco:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bobby:
Anyone that supports something as stupid as this needs Jesus. It's amazing how depravity is now the norm and anyone that speaks out against it is considered wrong. Anyone who is stupid enough to believe and post something this ignorant needs to re-read the words of Jesus. Fool. YOUR words and beliefs are depraved. </font>[/QUOTE]totally, just because they think they know Jesus' teachings doesn't mean they actually know it, as this is the perfect example.

[And]

Originally posted by liL Ray:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eileen:
i'm on the side of thinking it's more bullshit public school system problem-avoidance.

they can't keep the gay kids safe at school. so they ship them off to their own school INSTEAD of keeping the bullying homophobic kids in line.

what a way for the school system to avoid it's responsibility for teaching the kids to respect each other. instead they just silently condoning the behavior of the aggressive homophobic assholes.

this was the same argument they used to keep schools segregated "it's for the (minority) kids safety". as if the homophobic kids have no ability to control themselves? what are they, animals? they can't be taught?

the point of schools is TEACHING kids, as in TEACHING them to respect each other and not kick each others asses because they are different.

if we give up on teaching kids and allow the idea that schools are going to be just as ****ed up as the ****ed up adult world we live in, then all hope is lost. very good point... </font>[/QUOTE]Indeed.

[And]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
I think this is a STUPID idea.
-
Don't the bullies have a better success rate now? I mean if I was looking for gay kids to beat up, I'd start by hanging out at the gay schools. My success rate would be 100% then. graemlins/stupid.gif I am so not understanding where you are coming from with this response..... </font>[/QUOTE]I hear that ... so I'm just quoting people who I think are expressing views I hold better. ;)

[MYOR]

Originally posted by eileen:

what a way for the school system to avoid it's responsibility for teaching the kids to respect each other. instead they just silently condoning the behavior of the aggressive homophobic assholes.

Sorry to disagree but this STARTS at home.. if your parent teaches you to be a aggresive homophobic asshole that is what you'll be. Your parents do this.. And its very hard for school to change what parents taught you..

Everything starts at home...

[And]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eileen:

what a way for the school system to avoid it's responsibility for teaching the kids to respect each other. instead they just silently condoning the behavior of the aggressive homophobic assholes.

Sorry to disagree but this STARTS at home.. if your parent teaches you to be a aggresive homophobic asshole that is what you'll be. Your parents do this.. And its very hard for school to change what parents taught you..

Everything starts at home... </font>[/QUOTE]Unfortunately ... as I see it (and I do agree good ethics should start at home) the problem of raising kids has already become the school's problem.
While I do sympathize and see the good intentions behind a school like this, the part of me that's all for integration is saddened by the need to continue to desegregate in order to "create a better environment."

[JL]

it's a pipe dream to expect public schools to police the safety of every single student, or even to teach tolerance seminars on homosexuality. as a nation, the jury is still out on whether or not to accept homosexuality. it's a looming debate on the national level, so i believe that a concession as "progressive" as this school is a good one for the reasons that leslie, mark, and darrow stated.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by 6 23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eileen:

what a way for the school system to avoid it's responsibility for teaching the kids to respect each other. instead they just silently condoning the behavior of the aggressive homophobic assholes.

Sorry to disagree but this STARTS at home.. if your parent teaches you to be a aggresive homophobic asshole that is what you'll be. Your parents do this.. And its very hard for school to change what parents taught you..

Everything starts at home... </font>[/QUOTE]Unfortunately ... as I see it (and I do agree good ethics should start at home) the problem of raising kids has already become the school's problem.
While I do sympathize and see the good intentions behind a school like this, the part of me that's all for integration is saddened by the need to continue to desegregate in order to "create a better environment." </font>[/QUOTE]And that is where I see the problem raising kids has now become a school priority.. That should NEVER be schools priority.. Educate,, Yes raise no.. (or am I misunderstanding you)..

Also if you chose to go to this school is different I believe... They key word being you Chose This school.. The same way they choose to an all black college, an all girls school, all boys school... You have a choice.. You are not forced to attend.. its not like you are gay you HAVE to go there...

[ July 29, 2003, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: MYOR ]

[Musica]

Teaching kids to respect one another should be done in the home. Imagine seeing 'Respect 101' graemlins/respekt.gif on your program

[falko]

it is a bit sad, but many of the arguments against this school sound very similar to the popular arguments against affirmative action... for example, the potential "stigma" of having this school on resume sounds similar to the "stigma" of affirmative action... the stigma of being gay will be there regardless of whether the school exists, just as affirmative action did not create the widespread skepticism towards black's intelligence.

similar to affirmative action, this school seems like an imperfect solution to a MASSIVE problem. but just because it's not perfect doesn't mean that it's a bad idea and that it shouldn't exist ("don't throw the baby out with the bath water"). it's better than nothing.

the all-boys/all-girls school is a great analogy. the school is intended to provide gay kids with an opportunity to learn unimpeded by issues due to their sexuality.

p.s. the affirmative action analogy is not so great, but i use it because i detect a lack of empathy for these kids. this same lack of empathy plays a major role in the opposition of many to programs designed to help minorities.

think about it as if you were in their shoes...

[ July 29, 2003, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: falko ]

[Bobby]

Nothing more but a ploy by a bunch of grown men and women trying to "turn out" confused kids for who knows what sick purpose. Conning these kids into embracing a LIFESTYLE that they know and every other human knows is not normal.

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Bobby:
Nothing more but a ploy by a bunch of grown men and women trying to "turn out" confused kids for who knows what sick purpose. Conning these kids into embracing a LIFESTYLE that they know and every other human knows is not normal. I suppose you don't frequent many HOUSE affairs given the PROLIFERATION of gays who are a major part of this scene. Remember God don't like ugly...

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bobby:
Nothing more but a ploy by a bunch of grown men and women trying to "turn out" confused kids for who knows what sick purpose. Conning these kids into embracing a LIFESTYLE that they know and every other human knows is not normal. How the hell you know what is normal and what isn't... What may be normal to you might not be to me.... People like you make this school is necessary...

Yeah lets get all the Gay kids in one school and take over the world!!!! graemlins/rofl.gif

[Friday]

Originally posted by JL:
it's a pipe dream to expect public schools to police the safety of every single student, or even to teach tolerance seminars on homosexuality. as a nation, the jury is still out on whether or not to accept homosexuality. it's a looming debate on the national level, so i believe that a concession as "progressive" as this school is a good one for the reasons that leslie, mark, and darrow stated. Having just got off the phone with one of my bestfriends, he is gay I am more apt now to trust that this school is for the betterment of the students and will instill in them a sense of who they are in this society. I am still looking at the bigger picture which sorely needs to addressed, however, we may all be too late for that.

Having been accepted and schooled to be myself from my gay, lesbian and transgendered friends, I sense that our society as a whole will have a lot of problems rising up from thier predjudices. This is a shame.

Thank you everyone for this discussion, and thank you Bobby for taking off my rose colored glasses and allowing me to see the world for what it really is.

More power to the school!

[Bobby]

"This is who I is... see me,love me"
graemlins/lol.gif

[Musica]

"Turn out"? Hon, pedophillia and homosexuality are 2 different things. If that's the case, what do you call R. Kelly? graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[Bobby]

R.Kelly is a pedophile. Its all deviant behavior.

[Friday]

Originally posted by Bobby:
"This is who I is... see me,love me"
graemlins/lol.gif Oh by-the-way...my friend said what you need is a big dick up your ass, why don't you ask one of your priests. smile.gif

Oh, also Bobby, I mean that too graemlins/remybussi.gif

I'll take my warning G

[ July 29, 2003, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: gf ]

[Musica]

ooops! behave! biggrinangel.gif

[ July 29, 2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Musica ]

[Musica]

Originally posted by Bobby:
R.Kelly is a pedophile. Its all deviant behavior. I guess so is masturbation.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bobby:
Its all deviant behavior. Um hon, you need to leave that cacoon you live in graemlins/cool_shades.gif

[GrantB]

Originally posted by JL:
it's a pipe dream to expect public schools to police the safety of every single student... Pipe dream maybe, unreasonable expectation no. As a parent, if I knowingly allow my child to be repeatedly physically abused it could be considered neglect that is punishable by prison. When I turn the care of my child over to a school for a few hours a day, it should be no different. As an adult, if I beat up someone for whatever reason, I go to jail, but kids are allowed to get away with hate crimes because public schools can't be expected to "police the safety of every single student". Not acceptable!

Growing up, I had the varied experience of private, "normal" public, and "alternative" public schools. The "normal" public schools were the only ones with problems policing the safety of every single student. All it takes is constant supervision, which is not too much for a parent to ask IMO. Not by coincidence, the "normal" public schools were the ones where I didn't learn crap and picked up all sorts of bad habits.

Count me in the group of parents who have given up on _most_ public schools. I disagree that public schools aren't the government educating your children. What's DARE? I cringe to think of all the wack nationalist propaganda I was forcefed in regular public school programs. Public schools are theoretically a great idea and seemingly as necessary to a civilized society as public libraries, public defenders, etc. However, over here in reality I have two real children that I care for dearly and a bunch of public schools staffed largely by people who don't care, are ignorant and/or misinformed, or are good but hogtied by _government_ regulations, corruption, politics, lack of resources, excuses, excuses, excuses. Sorry, excuses are not good enough for my kids, especially when it comes to their safety.

There are places that successfully and SAFELY teach children how to read, write, do math and science, and think for themselves, regardless of their sexuality, race, religion, etc. I'm doing what I can to make sure that's where my kids continue to go.

[ July 29, 2003, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: GrantB ]

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by gf:
Well I suppose what we need now is a school for the nerds and social outcasts....Lord knows we don't need another Columbine. That was the point I made in my previous post. It makes me angry that we can't focus in on the bullies "that are just being kids" and control them and make them accountable. I do agree also that if setting these children aside to focus on education and not drop out that is fine to.

This society sickens me everytime I think how it is making our children (the future leaders) weak and how to selfish, think about yourself and not be acccountable for your actions. :(

[GrantB]

Originally posted by falko:


the all-boys/all-girls school is a great analogy. the school is intended to provide gay kids with an opportunity to learn unimpeded by issues due to their sexuality.

I disagree that this is a good analogy. In a same gender school the idea is that it removes the constant temptation of the opposite sex (they're all straight, right parents?) to allow for better concentration on academics. An all gay school is the opposite of this, making for a much larger pool of possible partners and a more open environment that is much more conductive to "hooking up". Gay students might not have to spend all day worrying about hiding/defending their sexuality, but if you're going with the philosophy of the same gender school, they're going to spend a lot more time getting laid and a lot less time studying.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Musica:
Bashers, tormentors, beaters, tongue lashers and anyone the promotes violence against anyone that is different from them....needs Jesus or God biggrinangel.gif ! This is a comment from your post and Bobby's post:

You are right. People need to learn how to live with themselves and stop trying to change others.

To others that responded to Bobby's post:
Don't get angry with Bobby he is just passionate about what he believes in and can't understand why in this day and age how people are making it okay to not be like what the bible teaches.

I am a Christian and believe in Jesus but I am not to judge. I know what the bible say is wrong but that is not up to me to decide who will go to hell or not. I am not so heaven bound that I am no earthly good. There are many people that proclaim to be christians and no one knows what they are doing in the dark but God. I am not taught through my bible to be prejudice. I know that we all live our lives for a purpose and can decide to separate ourselves from what is believed to not fit into our lives (not being like the world as Christians are taught) but I cannot sit and tell people "that is wrong!, You will go to hell". That is not my business nor will I shove God's word down anyone's throat.

[Querck]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Musica:
Bashers, tormentors, beaters, tongue lashers and anyone the promotes violence against anyone that is different from them....needs Jesus or God biggrinangel.gif ! This is a comment from your post and Bobby's post:

You are right. People need to learn how to live with themselves and stop trying to change others.

To others that responded to Bobby's post:
Don't get angry with Bobby he is just passionate about what he believes in and can't understand why in this day and age how people are making it okay to not be like what the bible teaches.

I am a Christian and believe in Jesus but I am not to judge. I know what the bible say is wrong but that is not up to me to decide who will go to hell or not. I am not so heaven bound that I am no earthly good. There are many people that proclaim to be christians and no one knows what they are doing in the dark but God. I am not taught through my bible to be prejudice. I know that we all live our lives for a purpose and can decide to separate ourselves from what is believed to not fit into our lives (not being like the world as Christians are taught) but I cannot sit and tell people "that is wrong!, You will go to hell". That is not my business nor will I shove God's word down anyone's throat. </font>[/QUOTE]Whether you're a Christian or whatever, there is no excuse for homophobia. The "Bible" argument is just an excuse for the homophobes' insecurities.
Bobby's comments are sad and pathetic, but unfortunately they reflect the view of "middle America".

[domodisco]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Musica:
Bashers, tormentors, beaters, tongue lashers and anyone the promotes violence against anyone that is different from them....needs Jesus or God biggrinangel.gif ! This is a comment from your post and Bobby's post:

You are right. People need to learn how to live with themselves and stop trying to change others.

To others that responded to Bobby's post:
Don't get angry with Bobby he is just passionate about what he believes in and can't understand why in this day and age how people are making it okay to not be like what the bible teaches.

I am a Christian and believe in Jesus but I am not to judge. I know what the bible say is wrong but that is not up to me to decide who will go to hell or not. I am not so heaven bound that I am no earthly good. There are many people that proclaim to be christians and no one knows what they are doing in the dark but God. I am not taught through my bible to be prejudice. I know that we all live our lives for a purpose and can decide to separate ourselves from what is believed to not fit into our lives (not being like the world as Christians are taught) but I cannot sit and tell people "that is wrong!, You will go to hell". That is not my business nor will I shove God's word down anyone's throat. </font>[/QUOTE]I have no problem with anyone's religious beliefs. If you have a support system such as that and it gives you comfort, then I think that's great. Passionate beliefs are crucial to making a good life in this world.

However I do have a problem, a big problem, with passionate beliefs that stem from a place of intolerance, ignorance, and hatred, thinly veiled or otherwise. Bobby's statements likening homosexuality to 'depravity' and 'deviant behavior' and suggesting the teachers and people involved in this school are child molestors or pimps are inflammatory at best and dangerous - not to mention just plain ignorant. I shudder to think that these ideas come from his belief in God.

Bobby, you have no idea what it means to be gay. I would have thought by now that it would be obvious to the world that homosexuality is NOT A CHOICE. No one up and decides that being gay is a great idea (except maybe in college! smile.gif . It is just the way some people are hardwired.

I respect your right to have your own beliefs, but when you tell me that I (and a WHOLE lot of others, especially, duh, in the world of clubs and dance music) am 'sick, depraved and deviant' then you've stepped over the line.

[miss al boogie]

Originally posted by GrantB:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JL:
it's a pipe dream to expect public schools to police the safety of every single student... Pipe dream maybe, unreasonable expectation no. As a parent, if I knowingly allow my child to be repeatedly physically abused it could be considered neglect that is punishable by prison. When I turn the care of my child over to a school for a few hours a day, it should be no different. As an adult, if I beat up someone for whatever reason, I go to jail, but kids are allowed to get away with hate crimes because public schools can't be expected to "police the safety of every single student". Not acceptable!

Growing up, I had the varied experience of private, "normal" public, and "alternative" public schools. The "normal" public schools were the only ones with problems policing the safety of every single student. All it takes is constant supervision, which is not too much for a parent to ask IMO. Not by coincidence, the "normal" public schools were the ones where I didn't learn crap and picked up all sorts of bad habits.

Count me in the group of parents who have given up on _most_ public schools. I disagree that public schools aren't the government educating your children. What's DARE? I cringe to think of all the wack nationalist propaganda I was forcefed in regular public school programs. Public schools are theoretically a great idea and seemingly as necessary to a civilized society as public libraries, public defenders, etc. However, over here in reality I have two real children that I care for dearly and a bunch of public schools staffed largely by people who don't care, are ignorant and/or misinformed, or are good but hogtied by _government_ regulations, corruption, politics, lack of resources, excuses, excuses, excuses. Sorry, excuses are not good enough for my kids, especially when it comes to their safety.

There are places that successfully and SAFELY teach children how to read, write, do math and science, and think for themselves, regardless of their sexuality, race, religion, etc. I'm doing what I can to make sure that's where my kids continue to go. </font>[/QUOTE]AMEN...my family and I have too many hell stories from public school and I only hear worse from families nowadays. It's tiring and bureaucratic.....

I want to hear more from mhd on why I shouldn't give up.

[BHouse]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I know I will catch Hell for this but here is my take on it.

Society has made our children weak, vunerable and clueless to the real world. I believe that the school is a bad idea because instead of making bullies responsible the easy way out is to leave the bullies alone and exclude the children that are more likely to become under attack. That money could have been used to educate children on different types of cultures, lifestyles, personalities and safety. However this school will make them comfortable in their surroundings in order to learn and grow. Afterwards, then what? The world - society still have conflict with the gay, bi-sexual and transgendered children. I remembered growing up and fighting bullies just because of my color (in a black neighborhood) and others thought I was trying to be too good, thinking I am cute. Where was my school?! graemlins/rofl.gif Why didn't anyone stop them?

If we don't teach the children to stand up for themselves, The Board of Education might as well start building schools for bi-racial, middle-eastern, christian, white supremicist, eccentric children etc. I got a better idea; get a school for the bullies to attend so they can feel welcomed and have a sense of belonging because they will have nothing to live for now :rolleyes: GOOD POINTS...I totally agree with your reasoning, but I am sure there are parents out there who tried their best to raise their children to stand up for themselves (if they were gay, inter-racial or different nationalities) and their children could not take the pressure and committed suicide. Those parents probably wished there was school like this to provide sometype of safe haven for their little ones. No it doesn't solve the problem, but a few hours a couple a day may save a childs life. I guess it depends how troubled the child is. Are depressed and tried to commit suicide before? Or are you going to tell your child to toughen up and deal with it? Think about it....

[Bobby]

Bobby, you have no idea what it means to be gay. I would have thought by now that it would be obvious to the world that homosexuality is NOT A CHOICE. No one up and decides that being gay is a great idea (except maybe in college! . It is just the way some people are hardwired. I do not care nor do I want to know what it is to be "gay". The sad thing is this country will not fall to terrorism or some military power destroying us, but it will fall due to the immoralization of this society. Every unthinkable act that was private is now "out of the closet" forcing everyone to see. Nobody know right from wrong anymore, anything goes, as long as it makes you happy. How long do you people really believe you can go on like this without any consequence. Believe dat!

[Querck]

Originally posted by Bobby:


The sad thing is this country will not fall to terrorism or some military power destroying us, but it will fall due to the immoralization of this society. Did Pat Robertson tell you this?

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by Jonny McIntosh:
But it isn't segregation. Kids aren't told: there's a special school for you now, we don't have to deal with it. But they have the option if that's what they want. I don't see a problem with giving someone what's basically a refuge? Especially if the moddy coddling fears are misguided - why should some kids suffer while society learns a bit of tolerance? OK, then lets have a school for:

Short People, who get taunted at school, mini me school

Tall people, who get taunted at school, stretch armstrong school


Ugly people who get taunted at school, butt ugly High

Poor people, oh ! they already have schools for them don't they...

A school for people with different hair types,

A school for people with acne, 101 dalmation school

A small titty school...

A school for people with early hair growth, the pubes at 8 high
etc etc etc etc etc, where is the line drawn ?,

Seperation, segregation (forced or chosen), it's surrounding yourself with people who sexually are like you, therefore all it is doing is putting off the inevitable, which is one day your gonna meet people from all walks of life.


I just think that school is a preperation for the big wide world, so having a seperate school is going to seperate them from society and place them in a little bubble of shrinks they will probably require when they realise the world doesn't give a damn. When they go to work for PwC or JCB they will find they may be sat next to someone who is hetero.

this shcool is in San Fran, highest gay population in the U.S so people are gonna be more used to gay people than other parts of the country that are less tolerant to gay people, why is the school in San Fran, sureley it would be more needed elsewhere, perhaps this is a reflection of the place
graemlins/conf44.gif


We already have schools for gay people here, you just have to pay alot of money to go to them graemlins/rofl.gif (jokes)


What next a school for kids who have hu

[ July 30, 2003, 05:11 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by BHouse:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I know I will catch Hell for this but here is my take on it.

Society has made our children weak, vunerable and clueless to the real world. I believe that the school is a bad idea because instead of making bullies responsible the easy way out is to leave the bullies alone and exclude the children that are more likely to become under attack. That money could have been used to educate children on different types of cultures, lifestyles, personalities and safety. However this school will make them comfortable in their surroundings in order to learn and grow. Afterwards, then what? The world - society still have conflict with the gay, bi-sexual and transgendered children. I remembered growing up and fighting bullies just because of my color (in a black neighborhood) and others thought I was trying to be too good, thinking I am cute. Where was my school?! graemlins/rofl.gif Why didn't anyone stop them?

If we don't teach the children to stand up for themselves, The Board of Education might as well start building schools for bi-racial, middle-eastern, christian, white supremicist, eccentric children etc. I got a better idea; get a school for the bullies to attend so they can feel welcomed and have a sense of belonging because they will have nothing to live for now :rolleyes: GOOD POINTS...I totally agree with your reasoning, but I am sure there are parents out there who tried their best to raise their children to stand up for themselves (if they were gay, inter-racial or different nationalities) and their children could not take the pressure and committed suicide. Those parents probably wished there was school like this to provide sometype of safe haven for their little ones. No it doesn't solve the problem, but a few hours a couple a day may save a childs life. I guess it depends how troubled the child is. Are depressed and tried to commit suicide before? Or are you going to tell your child to toughen up and deal with it? Think about it.... </font>[/QUOTE]No, there are children that do not fight back but there are ways to fight the bullies. Parents need to stop putting their parenting off on the system. I have 4 children and 1 out of the 4 is timid and don't like confrontation but you better believe that everyone in the school knows that she is being picked on. She is truly different, other children have picked on her because she has a skin condition (mild - severe eczema), she is very smart (honor roll nerd) and the children talk about her and have bullied her. Anyway I just think that the children shouldn't be excluded and the Parents need to take more action with the schools. I don't know what it is like to have a gay child and wouldn't want to experience it because of the horror stories I hear. I cannot say what people should do.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Martin Red:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jonny McIntosh:
But it isn't segregation. Kids aren't told: there's a special school for you now, we don't have to deal with it. But they have the option if that's what they want. I don't see a problem with giving someone what's basically a refuge? Especially if the moddy coddling fears are misguided - why should some kids suffer while society learns a bit of tolerance? OK, then lets have a school for:

Short People, who get taunted at school, mini me school

Tall people, who get taunted at school, stretch armstrong school


Ugly people who get taunted at school, butt ugly High

Poor people, oh ! they already have schools for them don't they...

A school for people with different hair types,

A school for people with acne, 101 dalmation school

A small titty school...

A school for people with early hair growth, the pubes at 8 high
etc etc etc etc etc, where is the line drawn ?,

Seperation, segregation (forced or chosen), it's surrounding yourself with people who sexually are like you, therefore all it is doing is putting off the inevitable, which is one day your gonna meet people from all walks of life.


I just think that school is a preperation for the big wide world, so having a seperate school is going to seperate them from society and place them in a little bubble of shrinks they will probably require when they realise the world doesn't give a damn. When they go to work for PwC or JCB they will find they may be sat next to someone who is hetero.

this shcool is in San Fran, highest gay population in the U.S so people are gonna be more used to gay people than other parts of the country that are less tolerant to gay people, why is the school in San Fran, sureley it would be more needed elsewhere, perhaps this is a reflection of the place
graemlins/conf44.gif


We already have schools for gay people here, you just have to pay alot of money to go to them graemlins/rofl.gif (jokes)


What next a school for kids who have hu </font>[/QUOTE]get your facts straight

[liL Ray]

I guess you guys took this topic and ran with it....some really good discussion here...let's keep it that way and not let it degenerate into the bowels of the DHP....even if we have to put with homophobe Bobby's comments... :D

Continue....

[Cheddar]

Although I regret that people cannot feel comfortable in public, I still dont think this will solve anything, it only builds a wall of separation. There is a problem...fix it. We can't tolerate gay bashing, period.

[darrow]

Originally posted by Martin Red:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jonny McIntosh:
But it isn't segregation. Kids aren't told: there's a special school for you now, we don't have to deal with it. But they have the option if that's what they want. I don't see a problem with giving someone what's basically a refuge? Especially if the moddy coddling fears are misguided - why should some kids suffer while society learns a bit of tolerance? OK, then lets have a school for:

Short People, who get taunted at school, mini me school

Tall people, who get taunted at school, stretch armstrong school


Ugly people who get taunted at school, butt ugly High

Poor people, oh ! they already have schools for them don't they...

A school for people with different hair types,

A school for people with acne, 101 dalmation school

A small titty school...

A school for people with early hair growth, the pubes at 8 high
etc etc etc etc etc, where is the line drawn ?,

Seperation, segregation (forced or chosen), it's surrounding yourself with people who sexually are like you, therefore all it is doing is putting off the inevitable, which is one day your gonna meet people from all walks of life.


I just think that school is a preperation for the big wide world, so having a seperate school is going to seperate them from society and place them in a little bubble of shrinks they will probably require when they realise the world doesn't give a damn. When they go to work for PwC or JCB they will find they may be sat next to someone who is hetero.

this shcool is in San Fran, highest gay population in the U.S so people are gonna be more used to gay people than other parts of the country that are less tolerant to gay people, why is the school in San Fran, sureley it would be more needed elsewhere, perhaps this is a reflection of the place
graemlins/conf44.gif


We already have schools for gay people here, you just have to pay alot of money to go to them graemlins/rofl.gif (jokes)


What next a school for kids who have hu </font>[/QUOTE]Martin, the school isn't in SF. It's in NYC.

[mhd]

Originally posted by al boogie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GrantB:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JL:
it's a pipe dream to expect public schools to police the safety of every single student... Pipe dream maybe, unreasonable expectation no. As a parent, if I knowingly allow my child to be repeatedly physically abused it could be considered neglect that is punishable by prison. When I turn the care of my child over to a school for a few hours a day, it should be no different. As an adult, if I beat up someone for whatever reason, I go to jail, but kids are allowed to get away with hate crimes because public schools can't be expected to "police the safety of every single student". Not acceptable!

Growing up, I had the varied experience of private, "normal" public, and "alternative" public schools. The "normal" public schools were the only ones with problems policing the safety of every single student. All it takes is constant supervision, which is not too much for a parent to ask IMO. Not by coincidence, the "normal" public schools were the ones where I didn't learn crap and picked up all sorts of bad habits.

Count me in the group of parents who have given up on _most_ public schools. I disagree that public schools aren't the government educating your children. What's DARE? I cringe to think of all the wack nationalist propaganda I was forcefed in regular public school programs. Public schools are theoretically a great idea and seemingly as necessary to a civilized society as public libraries, public defenders, etc. However, over here in reality I have two real children that I care for dearly and a bunch of public schools staffed largely by people who don't care, are ignorant and/or misinformed, or are good but hogtied by _government_ regulations, corruption, politics, lack of resources, excuses, excuses, excuses. Sorry, excuses are not good enough for my kids, especially when it comes to their safety.

There are places that successfully and SAFELY teach children how to read, write, do math and science, and think for themselves, regardless of their sexuality, race, religion, etc. I'm doing what I can to make sure that's where my kids continue to go. </font>[/QUOTE]AMEN...my family and I have too many hell stories from public school and I only hear worse from families nowadays. It's tiring and bureaucratic.....

I want to hear more from mhd on why I shouldn't give up. </font>[/QUOTE]public school education is the great equalizer in this country. for the vast majority, this is where all inspiration begins, think about all the things that make this country great, this is where it starts. folks that argue against the harvey milk school focus on the ideal of what school should be instead of the reality we have today.

when you look at the crumbling wreck that is public education and say "they" are not doing a good job of teaching or protecting our children, then we have already failed. the reality is that schools are raising kids, because many times no on else is. furthermore, teachers and parents are partners in raising/teaching children, it has to be a team approach, moreover, you are also responsible for the kids you encounter through your child. why? because from pre-school to phd, you learn as much from your peers as you do from any other source.
you cannot give up on public schools because it is probably the single most important factor in the development of children. even if your kid does not attend a public school he/she will interact with someone who does

[darrow]

Hey Martin Red

You probably didn't intend it, but your comparisons with hair types, acne, breast size etc. possibly trivialize what it is to be gay and out as a teenager. Maybe you were just using those examples for dramatic effect? I don't think the issues faced by someone with different hair or small breasts are comparable to the issues (or at least the magnitude of those issues) faced by someone who identifies himself or herself as gay at the early age of 14 (the minimum age for the school).

[ July 30, 2003, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: darrow ]

[mhd]

Originally posted by 1343:
Although I regret that people cannot feel comfortable in public, I still dont think this will solve anything, it only builds a wall of separation. There is a problem...fix it. We can't tolerate gay bashing, period. isn't that an argument for maintaining the status quo - let's keep doing what we've done because we've always done it that way, even as we admit it does not work, and let's reject innovation even though it cannot fail more than the failure we've allowed to flourish

[Cheddar]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 1343:
Although I regret that people cannot feel comfortable in public, I still dont think this will solve anything, it only builds a wall of separation. There is a problem...fix it. We can't tolerate gay bashing, period. isn't that an argument for maintaining the status quo - let's keep doing what we've done because we've always done it that way, even as we admit it does not work, and let's reject innovation even though it cannot fail more than the failure we've allowed to flourish </font>[/QUOTE]Its just an argument similar to prohibiting racism (hate crimes). It has no place in society. I dont think it really matters whether America like Black people or gay people, on the cover there is acceptance and how can we allow our children to act this way?? What is the problem with punishing those who commit these acts??

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Bobby:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Bobby, you have no idea what it means to be gay. I would have thought by now that it would be obvious to the world that homosexuality is NOT A CHOICE. No one up and decides that being gay is a great idea (except maybe in college! . It is just the way some people are hardwired. I do not care nor do I want to know what it is to be "gay". The sad thing is this country will not fall to terrorism or some military power destroying us, but it will fall due to the immoralization of this society. Every unthinkable act that was private is now "out of the closet" forcing everyone to see. Nobody know right from wrong anymore, anything goes, as long as it makes you happy. How long do you people really believe you can go on like this without any consequence. Believe dat! </font>[/QUOTE]You know the people that have the holier than thou attitude are usually the worst ones..

And you are right as long as people are not hurting anyone who cares...And if there will be consequences for me understanding and not judging others for something that they have no control over.. SO BE IT!!

BTW, Being Gay is NOT a CHOICE...

[ July 30, 2003, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: MYOR ]

[mhd]

Originally posted by 1343:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 1343:
Although I regret that people cannot feel comfortable in public, I still dont think this will solve anything, it only builds a wall of separation. There is a problem...fix it. We can't tolerate gay bashing, period. isn't that an argument for maintaining the status quo - let's keep doing what we've done because we've always done it that way, even as we admit it does not work, and let's reject innovation even though it cannot fail more than the failure we've allowed to flourish </font>[/QUOTE]Its just an argument similar to prohibiting racism (hate crimes). It has no place in society. I dont think it really matters whether America like Black people or gay people, on the cover there is acceptance and how can we allow our children to act this way?? What is the problem with punishing those who commit these acts?? </font>[/QUOTE]because it doesn't work, imo, hate crimes statutes only punish people for acts they get caught (and convicted of) doing. they have no deterrent effect on racists. but your wall of separation argument is valid but for an entirely different reason. i think public schools would suffer because of the absence of gay kids