The main difference between hip hop of yesterday VS hip hop of today is

[D J 1 3 8]

Back then they rhymed about money and hoes but it was mostly LIES. Now they rhyme about the same thing but, in some cases, they are actually as rich as they claim to be.

Other than that, all this "oh how I long for the golden age of hip hop" stuff I see on this board and everywhere else is just nonsense. We are all just getting old and cranky.

There has always been wack rappers.
There has always been great rappers.
There has always been bullshit pop rappers.
There has always been great un-rewarded underground MCs.
There has always been girls shaking their asses in videos. The only difference now is that the clothes are tighter and every other booty-girl is half-Asian or some shit.
Rappers have been making party records since day one. In fact, there are more club bangers that you can actually dance to right now than in the past 6 years.

Rappers have been talking about money and sex since day one, and the whole drugs and violence thing got added around 1986. So please re-think your "today's hip hop sucks" theories cuz they just don't pan out.

Rant over. ;)

[i.be.me]

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/twocents.gif main difference for me... i used to like it, now i hate it.

no beef with those who still like it.

'nough said.

[kev]

I agree with you. There are alot of great hip hop records out there. IMO the market seems to be so saturated with new releases (or I should say even more so compared to back then) that you have to dig a little harder to find the gems.

[Bold Soul]

...I listened to it.

[Ron la Rock]

C R E A T I V I T Y.

['Magic' Juan]

The main difference is that the "fun factor" is missing from today's rhymes, along with a lack of creativity. Also, there has been major progress in delivery, but not in what is being delivered. There is no way you can tell me today's rhyme sayers are better then yesterdays. Bunch of busters if you ask me ....

magic_juan

[Ken1015]

Biggie and Tupac ain't hip-hop.

[kev]

Creativity and fun. It's out there. It ain't on TV or on the radio, but if you dig hard enough you'll find it.

[Bold Soul]

Hip-Hop is an American art form. Based on other American art forms/genres, such as Jazz, Country, etc., one can expect it to wither and choke in the grip of corporate influence.

This occurs because those who market and sell it aren't those who produce it - there are too many floors between where it is born and where it is shrink-wrapped.

My 2 cents - which could be worth even less.

[Cheddar]

There is a certain "I Dont Give a ****" attitude which was not present back day or the degree to which existed was not as harsh.
There is a ridiculous kind of **** you and Ill shoot you and I gotta be paid Im gangsta thing which completely has gripped Hip Hop and its listeners. IT IS MADDDDD NEGATIVE.

[kev]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Hip-Hop is an American art form. Based on other American art forms/genres, such as Jazz, Country, etc., one can expect it to wither and choke in the grip of corporate influence.

This occurs because those who market and sell it aren't those who produce it - there are too many floors between where it is born and where it is shrink-wrapped.

My 2 cents - which could be worth even less. Very, very true. But like Ultra mentioned earlier there is also an underground brewing that is going against the corporate grain.

[Siesta]

listen to any of the "mushroom jazz" compilations on OM records. thats some of the best hip hop thats been released in the last decade. all positive, tasteful underground stuff.

[Ron la Rock]

R E B E L L I O N

[simon b]

Used to be an artform, now it's usually refered to as a billion dollar industry.

I miss the days when people used to call me a n***** lover cause white kids weren't supposed to listen to it.

I miss the days when everybody was hyped about that new album coming out , now the market is so over saturated some of the best shit just gets totally ignored.

I miss the days when if you were wack you got clowned. I miss the days when biting somebody else shit was a crime punishable by a lifetime of ridicule.

I miss the days when it was UNDERGROUND. Sure there is still good hip hop being made today, unfortunately most people just want to hear the soundtrack to BET's 106 & Park.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Hip-Hop is an American art form. Based on other American art forms/genres, such as Jazz, Country, etc., one can expect it to wither and choke in the grip of corporate influence.

This occurs because those who market and sell it aren't those who produce it - there are too many floors between where it is born and where it is shrink-wrapped.

My 2 cents - which could be worth even less. Very, very true. But like Ultra mentioned earlier there is also an underground brewing that is going against the corporate grain. </font>[/QUOTE]Most definitely. I've been looking for the opportunity to get involved in it.

[DLow]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
Back then they rhymed about money and hoes but it was mostly LIES. Now they rhyme about the same thing but, in some cases, they are actually as rich as they claim to be.

Other than that, all this "oh how I long for the golden age of hip hop" stuff I see on this board and everywhere else is just nonsense. We are all just getting old and cranky.

There has always been wack rappers.
There has always been great rappers.
There has always been bullshit pop rappers.
There has always been great un-rewarded underground MCs.
There has always been girls shaking their asses in videos. The only difference now is that the clothes are tighter and every other booty-girl is half-Asian or some shit.
Rappers have been making party records since day one. In fact, there are more club bangers that you can actually dance to right now than in the past 6 years.

Rappers have been talking about money and sex since day one, and the whole drugs and violence thing got added around 1986. So please re-think your "today's hip hop sucks" theories cuz they just don't pan out.

Rant over. ;) da diff is bullshit beatz and rhymes are regarded as hot. today's hip-hop (at least the shit that's on the airwaves) sucks

that's my opinion. if the next person likes it, good for them. to each his own...

[D J 1 3 8]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Hip-Hop is an American art form. Based on other American art forms/genres, such as Jazz, Country, etc., one can expect it to wither and choke in the grip of corporate influence.

This occurs because those who market and sell it aren't those who produce it - there are too many floors between where it is born and where it is shrink-wrapped.
I'm not so sure about your last statement.

True, rappers aren't too often selling tapes out of their trunk anymore, but that only ever really happpened down south and out west (where it continues to this day).

When hip hop first got picked up by major labels, the major label marketing people and A&R and package designers and whatever were invariably most likely neither African American nor a hip hop head of any sort. These days you have companies like Rockafella and Cash Money and whatnot that are black-owned and staffed almost entirely by hip hop heads. There are a lot of black CEOS in the game dictating what gets marketed and what doesn't.

True, on a global scale, there are a lot of fingers in the pie, but I would say that there are a lot more people that "are down" involved in the process now as opposed to 1986. They're not the actual performers, of course, but that was never the case.

Also, people seem to blame the way hip hop is marketed, but all the marketing people have done is adapt their business practices to fit the ever-widening audience. Any buisness would do this. And, artform or not, hip hop has been a business since Sylvia Robinson and Sugarhill.

[kev]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Hip-Hop is an American art form. Based on other American art forms/genres, such as Jazz, Country, etc., one can expect it to wither and choke in the grip of corporate influence.

This occurs because those who market and sell it aren't those who produce it - there are too many floors between where it is born and where it is shrink-wrapped.

My 2 cents - which could be worth even less. Very, very true. But like Ultra mentioned earlier there is also an underground brewing that is going against the corporate grain. </font>[/QUOTE]Most definitely. I've been looking for the opportunity to get involved in it. </font>[/QUOTE]Get involved in what way?

[Ron la Rock]

L E A D E R S H I P

[Huey P. Freeman]

Just like house, I only listen to underground. So for me hiphop is just fine. I don't consider the shit played on the radio as hiphop. Some do, I don't. To me it's POP. Not even in the same class.

[D J 1 3 8]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
Just like house, I only listen to underground. So for me hiphop is just fine. I don't consider the shit played on the radio as hiphop. Some do, I don't. To me it's POP. Not even in the same class. I know we've had this discussion before, so I won't get in to arguing definitions with you, but keep in mind that Eric B & Rakim's "Paid In Full" was a HUGE pop success. Played in every cheesy ass club in the world. It's still a great song. In other words, popularity does not a wack record make.

[kev]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Just like house, I only listen to underground. So for me hiphop is just fine. I don't consider the shit played on the radio as hiphop. Some do, I don't. To me it's POP. Not even in the same class. I know we've had this discussion before, so I won't get in to arguing definitions with you, but keep in mind that Eric B & Rakim's "Paid In Full" was a HUGE pop success. Played in every cheesy ass club in the world. It's still a great song. In other words, popularity does not a wack record make. </font>[/QUOTE]Not sure (correct me if I'm wrong) but I think the point he was trying to make was that just b/c someone's rhyming on a record doesn't make it hip hop.

[King Vitamin]

there's no inovation these days, ya have like 10 producers and a million rappers trying to sparkle and look pretty in videos directed by the same 4 directors.

[kev]

Originally posted by jmpayne:
there's no inovation these days, ya have like 10 producers and a million rappers trying to sparkle and look pretty in videos directed by the same 4 directors. But this goes back to what we've been saying. To judge hip hop from what you hear on the radio and what you see on TV is what you would call misrepresentation.

[DJ Rated M]

hip hop has OTHER elements besides the rap part of it..the Hip-Flop today(commercial part)hardly recognizes the other elements and are focused on just rap alone. rap alone is not hip-hop & there's other parts of music that are hip-hop as well...

so why is it that everytime you hear or see "Hip-Hop" you see just rappers???

trust me there's a difference...

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Hip-Hop is an American art form. Based on other American art forms/genres, such as Jazz, Country, etc., one can expect it to wither and choke in the grip of corporate influence.

This occurs because those who market and sell it aren't those who produce it - there are too many floors between where it is born and where it is shrink-wrapped.
I'm not so sure about your last statement.

True, rappers aren't too often selling tapes out of their trunk anymore, but that only ever really happpened down south and out west (where it continues to this day).

When hip hop first got picked up by major labels, the major label marketing people and A&R and package designers and whatever were invariably most likely neither African American nor a hip hop head of any sort. These days you have companies like Rockafella and Cash Money and whatnot that are black-owned and staffed almost entirely by hip hop heads. There are a lot of black CEOS in the game dictating what gets marketed and what doesn't.

True, on a global scale, there are a lot of fingers in the pie, but I would say that there are a lot more people that "are down" involved in the process now as opposed to 1986. They're not the actual performers, of course, but that was never the case.

Also, people seem to blame the way hip hop is marketed, but all the marketing people have done is adapt their business practices to fit the ever-widening audience. Any buisness would do this. And, artform or not, hip hop has been a business since Sylvia Robinson and Sugarhill. </font>[/QUOTE]Why do you assume my comment implies RACE? My comment implies CORPORATE MANAGEMENT STRUCTURES.

If you look at classics, they are going to tie back to Sugarhill, TommyBoy, Island, early Def Jam, American Recordings, Wild Pitch, and so on...and so on...

All smaller labels with less levels between producers and artists and product and sales. Anyone knows that the more links in the SUPPLY CHAIN, the more removed from quality the product becomes.

The problem with Hip Hop, as with all entertainment, is that IT IS NO LONGER "BOTTLED AT THE SOURCE".

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Hip-Hop is an...Very, very true. But like Ultra mentioned earlier there is also an underground brewing that is going against the corporate grain. </font>[/QUOTE]Most definitely. I've been looking for the opportunity to get involved in it. </font>[/QUOTE]Get involved in what way? </font>[/QUOTE]Marketing and promotion.

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Just like house, I only listen to underground. So for me hiphop is just fine. I don't consider the shit played on the radio as hiphop. Some do, I don't. To me it's POP. Not even in the same class. I know we've had this discussion before, so I won't get in to arguing definitions with you, but keep in mind that Eric B & Rakim's "Paid In Full" was a HUGE pop success. Played in every cheesy ass club in the world. It's still a great song. In other words, popularity does not a wack record make. </font>[/QUOTE]I've to the conclusion that every single person defines what is or is not hiphop for themself. And you are right Paid In Full did go platinum and was successful commercially. So was The Score-Fugees. But both were hiphop albums. There is a difference between making something and it being sucessful and following a formula to make it so. If Aesop Rock went platinum it would be hiphop. If Aesop Rock started rapping about guns, clothes and hoes in an attempt to go platinum it would not be. In my opinion at least. Not knocking what anyone else likes or believes, but that is how I feel. Whatever works for you is cool too.

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by jmpayne:
there's no inovation these days, ya have like 10 producers and a million rappers trying to sparkle and look pretty in videos directed by the same 4 directors. Plenty of inovation exists in hiphop but most of it is in the underground. Check everything on the Definitive Jux label and tell me that stuff is not innovative.

[kev]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Just like house, I only listen to underground. So for me hiphop is just fine. I don't consider the shit played on the radio as hiphop. Some do, I don't. To me it's POP. Not even in the same class. I know we've had this discussion before, so I won't get in to arguing definitions with you, but keep in mind that Eric B & Rakim's "Paid In Full" was a HUGE pop success. Played in every cheesy ass club in the world. It's still a great song. In other words, popularity does not a wack record make. </font>[/QUOTE]I've to the conclusion that every single person defines what is or is not hiphop for themself. And you are right Paid In Full did go platinum and was successful commercially. So was The Score-Fugees. But both were hiphop albums. There is a difference between making something and it being sucessful and following a formula to make it so. If Aesop Rock went platinum it would be hiphop. If Aesop Rock started rapping about guns, clothes and hoes in an attempt to go platinum it would not be. In my opinion at least. Not knocking what anyone else likes or believes, but that is how I feel. Whatever works for you is cool too. </font>[/QUOTE]So, you wouldn't consider Smif n Wessun's "The Shining" to be a hip hop album? That's all they talk about is guns and blunts.

[D J 1 3 8]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Why do you assume my comment implies RACE? My comment implies CORPORATE MANAGEMENT STRUCTURES.check. I misinterpreted.

And your point about being bottled at the source is well taken.

[kev]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Hip-Hop is an...Very, very true. But like Ultra mentioned earlier there is also an underground brewing that is going against the corporate grain. </font>[/QUOTE]Most definitely. I've been looking for the opportunity to get involved in it. </font>[/QUOTE]Get involved in what way? </font>[/QUOTE]Marketing and promotion. </font>[/QUOTE]Are you already involved in a marketing/promotions company that deals with music? Where are you based?

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Just like house, I only listen to underground. So for me hiphop is just fine. I don't consider the shit played on the radio as hiphop. Some do, I don't. To me it's POP. Not even in the same class. I know we've had this discussion before, so I won't get in to arguing definitions with you, but keep in mind that Eric B & Rakim's "Paid In Full" was a HUGE pop success. Played in every cheesy ass club in the world. It's still a great song. In other words, popularity does not a wack record make. </font>[/QUOTE]I've to the conclusion that every single person defines what is or is not hiphop for themself. And you are right Paid In Full did go platinum and was successful commercially. So was The Score-Fugees. But both were hiphop albums. There is a difference between making something and it being sucessful and following a formula to make it so. If Aesop Rock went platinum it would be hiphop. If Aesop Rock started rapping about guns, clothes and hoes in an attempt to go platinum it would not be. In my opinion at least. Not knocking what anyone else likes or believes, but that is how I feel. Whatever works for you is cool too. </font>[/QUOTE]So, you wouldn't consider Smif n Wessun's "The Shining" to be a hip hop album? That's all they talk about is guns and blunts. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah but that was their style from day one. Like I stated before doing something and being successful is different from doing something TO BE successful.

[kev]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Just like house, I only listen to underground. So for me hiphop is just fine. I don't consider the shit played on the radio as hiphop. Some do, I don't. To me it's POP. Not even in the same class. I know we've had this discussion before, so I won't get in to arguing definitions with you, but keep in mind that Eric B & Rakim's "Paid In Full" was a HUGE pop success. Played in every cheesy ass club in the world. It's still a great song. In other words, popularity does not a wack record make. </font>[/QUOTE]I've to the conclusion that every single person defines what is or is not hiphop for themself. And you are right Paid In Full did go platinum and was successful commercially. So was The Score-Fugees. But both were hiphop albums. There is a difference between making something and it being sucessful and following a formula to make it so. If Aesop Rock went platinum it would be hiphop. If Aesop Rock started rapping about guns, clothes and hoes in an attempt to go platinum it would not be. In my opinion at least. Not knocking what anyone else likes or believes, but that is how I feel. Whatever works for you is cool too. </font>[/QUOTE]So, you wouldn't consider Smif n Wessun's "The Shining" to be a hip hop album? That's all they talk about is guns and blunts. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah but that was their style from day one. Like I stated before doing something and being successful is different from doing something TO BE successful. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh, I see what you were saying. Selling out basically.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Hip-Hop is an...Very, very true. But like Ultra mentioned earlier there is also an underground brewing that is going against the corporate grain. </font>[/QUOTE]Most definitely. I've been looking for the opportunity to get involved in it. </font>[/QUOTE]Get involved in what way? </font>[/QUOTE]Marketing and promotion. </font>[/QUOTE]Are you already involved in a marketing/promotions company that deals with music? Where are you based? </font>[/QUOTE]Los Angeles, USA

[kev]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Hip-Hop is an...Very, very true. But like Ultra mentioned earlier there is also an underground brewing that is going against the corporate grain. </font>[/QUOTE]Most definitely. I've been looking for the opportunity to get involved in it. </font>[/QUOTE]Get involved in what way? </font>[/QUOTE]Marketing and promotion. </font>[/QUOTE]Are you already involved in a marketing/promotions company that deals with music? Where are you based? </font>[/QUOTE]Los Angeles, USA </font>[/QUOTE]check yo pm's

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
Just like house, I only listen to underground. So for me hiphop is just fine. I don't consider the shit played on the radio as hiphop. Some do, I don't. To me it's POP. Not even in the same class. I know we've had this discussion before, so I won't get in to arguing definitions with you, but keep in mind that Eric B & Rakim's "Paid In Full" was a HUGE pop success. Played in every cheesy ass club in the world. It's still a great song. In other words, popularity does not a wack record make. </font>[/QUOTE]I've to the conclusion that every single person defines what is or is not hiphop for themself. And you are right Paid In Full did go platinum and was successful commercially. So was The Score-Fugees. But both were hiphop albums. There is a difference between making something and it being sucessful and following a formula to make it so. If Aesop Rock went platinum it would be hiphop. If Aesop Rock started rapping about guns, clothes and hoes in an attempt to go platinum it would not be. In my opinion at least. Not knocking what anyone else likes or believes, but that is how I feel. Whatever works for you is cool too. </font>[/QUOTE]So, you wouldn't consider Smif n Wessun's "The Shining" to be a hip hop album? That's all they talk about is guns and blunts. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah but that was their style from day one. Like I stated before doing something and being successful is different from doing something TO BE successful. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh, I see what you were saying. Selling out basically. </font>[/QUOTE]To a point. I don't look at someone like say Nelly as a sellout. Because I don't think he has ever done what I would consider to be hiphop. But at the same time he is following a tried and true formula for success. His video is on MTV sandwiched between a Justin Timberlake and Madonna song. So to me he is pop just like them.

[kev]

Right. And then you have someone like OC who goes on record and spits lines like, "I'd rather be broke and have a whole lotta respect". And then complain in magazines how he didn't make any money off of "Word...Life" and say how his next one was gonna feature more radio joints ("Jewelz"). Talking 'bout how he gotta eat.

[King Vitamin]

Plenty of inovation exists in hiphop but most of it is in the underground. Check everything on the Definitive Jux label and tell me that stuff is not innovative.definetly i agree, i know the label, my personal favorite is Threshold Recordings, but that just shows another difference: innovation won't sell records, but we all know that back in the day innovation was nearly all over the place, at least creative(most crews or groups sounded different, you knew when you heard an epmd track, ultramagnetic track, P.E. track, etc., now it's all Neptunes sounding tracks THAT SELL RECORDS, just my opinion

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by IIBS:
Right. And then you have someone like OC who goes on record and spits lines like, "I'd rather be broke and have a whole lotta respect". And then complain in magazines how he didn't make any money off of "Word...Life" and say how his next one was gonna feature more radio joints ("Jewelz"). Talking 'bout how he gotta eat. It's a catch 22. You either keep your artistic integrity or you do not make a lot of money. But with the emergence of more artists being independant(i.e. Canibus) they can make more money selling less units than if they were with a major.

[kev]

Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
Right. And then you have someone like OC who goes on record and spits lines like, "I'd rather be broke and have a whole lotta respect". And then complain in magazines how he didn't make any money off of "Word...Life" and say how his next one was gonna feature more radio joints ("Jewelz"). Talking 'bout how he gotta eat. It's a catch 22. You either keep your artistic integrity or you do not make a lot of money. But with the emergence of more artists being independant(i.e. Canibus) they can make more money selling less units than if they were with a major. </font>[/QUOTE]What is your opinion on that Canibus album, BTW? I keep hearing good things about it.

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
Right. And then you have someone like OC who goes on record and spits lines like, "I'd rather be broke and have a whole lotta respect". And then complain in magazines how he didn't make any money off of "Word...Life" and say how his next one was gonna feature more radio joints ("Jewelz"). Talking 'bout how he gotta eat. It's a catch 22. You either keep your artistic integrity or you do not make a lot of money. But with the emergence of more artists being independant(i.e. Canibus) they can make more money selling less units than if they were with a major. </font>[/QUOTE]What is your opinion on that Canibus album, BTW? I keep hearing good things about it. </font>[/QUOTE]I like it. Canibus is a top notch lyracist. It is definately worth a listen.

[D J 1 3 8]

Originally posted by jmpayne:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Plenty of inovation exists in hiphop but most of it is in the underground. Check everything on the Definitive Jux label and tell me that stuff is not innovative.definetly i agree, i know the label, my personal favorite is Threshold Recordings, but that just shows another difference: innovation won't sell records, but we all know that back in the day innovation was nearly all over the place, at least creative(most crews or groups sounded different, you knew when you heard an epmd track, ultramagnetic track, P.E. track, etc., now it's all Neptunes sounding tracks THAT SELL RECORDS, just my opinion </font>[/QUOTE]Neptunes are the producers of the moment.

They're getting their shine, and everyone wants one of their beats, just like:

Swizz Beatz
Timbaland
Trackmasterz
Primo
Pete Rock
The Bomb Squad
Rick Rubin
Marley Marl
etc

see my point? Nothing's changed, except the numbers.

[fred da warrior]

Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
Right. And then you have someone like OC who goes on record and spits lines like, "I'd rather be broke and have a whole lotta respect". And then complain in magazines how he didn't make any money off of "Word...Life" and say how his next one was gonna feature more radio joints ("Jewelz"). Talking 'bout how he gotta eat. It's a catch 22. You either keep your artistic integrity or you do not make a lot of money. But with the emergence of more artists being independant(i.e. Canibus) they can make more money selling less units than if they were with a major. </font>[/QUOTE]What is your opinion on that Canibus album, BTW? I keep hearing good things about it. </font>[/QUOTE]Who's producing it? I thought that Wyclef producing joints was a big mistake last time...

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by fred:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by IIBS:
Right. And then you have someone like OC who goes on record and spits lines like, "I'd rather be broke and have a whole lotta respect". And then complain in magazines how he didn't make any money off of "Word...Life" and say how his next one was gonna feature more radio joints ("Jewelz"). Talking 'bout how he gotta eat. It's a catch 22. You either keep your artistic integrity or you do not make a lot of money. But with the emergence of more artists being independant(i.e. Canibus) they can make more money selling less units than if they were with a major. </font>[/QUOTE]What is your opinion on that Canibus album, BTW? I keep hearing good things about it. </font>[/QUOTE]Who's producing it? I thought that Wyclef producing joints was a big mistake last time... </font>[/QUOTE]He's had 4 other albums since that one. The producer from Jedi Mind Trick(his name escapes me right now) produced it. Very nice production on the album.

[kev]

Didn't dude from Jedi Mind Tricks do alot of beats on the Canibus album?

[Huey P. Freeman]

Originally posted by IIBS:
Didn't dude from Jedi Mind Tricks do alot of beats on the Canibus album? The whole shabang.

[kev]

I think I'm gonna (finally) pick up the Canibus alubm this weekend.

[Rep]

Originally posted by DJ Rated M:
hip hop has OTHER elements besides the rap part of it..the Hip-Flop today(commercial part)hardly recognizes the other elements and are focused on just rap alone. rap alone is not hip-hop & there's other parts of music that are hip-hop as well...

so why is it that everytime you hear or see "Hip-Hop" you see just rappers???

trust me there's a difference... rap is somethin' you do

hip hop is somethin you live.

graemlins/OLA.gif

[kev]

Is the new M.O.P. single out? I'll admit I've been falling behind in the new releases lately.

[julian_kelly]

I think a major issue is equal promotion of different types of rap on a wide scale.

In the "golden age" you could listen to Krs, Rakim...and then turn around and listen to Too Short and NWA...and then listen to Heavy D or someone like MC Lyte...and the listen to somebody like Luke Skywalker and then you'd listen to X-Clan. Different styles were consistently promoted to the masses; no one style of rap got all the attention...no one style had a monopoly.

The issue may not necessarily be content -- the same content and images have always been spoken about in rhymes. The issue is the equal promotion of diverse types of rap on a large scale.

julian kelly

[the 18th letter]

Is that most of us got old.

[Cookiehead Jenkins]

BITD Afro-Americans weren't encouraged to listen to positive, uplifting rap music and were even ridiculed for doing so. Now, the Afro-American kids have been turned out like so many whores by "The Man" and his goon squad who have watered down rap so much that a supposedly positive song has not even the power to uplift a piece of paper off of the ground on a windy day. They've found a way to keep the niggas down (for now).

[the 18th letter]

At some point we must take responsibility for our selves. Hip hop is being scapegoated in this sense.

[Rodney Ransom]

Another major difference is cats today don't do solo projects anymore. For example if you look at
90% of the cd's out ,you have like 4 or 5 other artist on the album as well. What kind of shit is this . Do any of these rappers stand on their own 2 feet anymore? How the F**K you gonna have a solo
album with 50 N***as on it? This shit is pathetic
, years ago , if is was a KOOL MOE DEE album, or
a BIG DADDY KANE album , or PUBLIC ENEMY, PARIS,
RAKIM, OR GRANDMASTER MELLE MEL album that's who
was on the L.P. All dat bulls**t started in the
90's. It's one of many factors that in my humble
opinion , has destroyed rap music. You had a few good guest apperances in the late 80's and early
90's , but now it's out of control. p.s ( I do recognize the fact that GRANDMASTER MELLE MEL AND
PUBLIC ENEMY WERE A GROUP EFFORT, NOT JUST SOLOIST.) :(

[ October 18, 2003, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: RodneyRansom ]

[Ron la Rock]

Originally posted by rammeh:
At some point we must take responsibility for our selves. Hip hop is being scapegoated in this sense. graemlins/OLA.gif graemlins/OLA.gif hail.gif hail.gif
can U say

R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y

[MsTiye78]

[/qb][/QUOTE]Very, very true. But like Ultra mentioned earlier there is also an underground brewing that is going against the corporate grain. [/QB][/QUOTE]


Here are some underground female emcees that I have on either vinyl on cd.


Bahamadia

http://jukar.biostat.wisc.edu/pics/211002-resized200.jpg


Apani

http://jukar.biostat.wisc.edu/pics/90.jpg

http://jukar.biostat.wisc.edu/pics/left01.jpg


Jean Grae

http://jukar.biostat.wisc.edu/pics/jeangrae1.jpg


T Love (jurassic 5 released their debut ep on her laber rumble/pickininny)

http://jukar.biostat.wisc.edu/pics/features-tlove.gif


Medusa

http://jukar.biostat.wisc.edu/pics/medusa4_thumb.jpg


Flo Brown

http://jukar.biostat.wisc.edu/pics/flo.gif

Yejide the night queen

http://jukar.biostat.wisc.edu/pics/yejide.jpg

[MsTiye78]

Originally posted by tiye:
Very, very true. But like Ultra mentioned earlier there is also an underground brewing that is going against the corporate grain. [/QB][/QUOTE]


Makeba Mooncycle

http://jukar.biostat.wisc.edu/pics/makeba1.jpg


Pri the honey dark

http://jukar.biostat.wisc.edu/pics/pri_02.gif

Het Heru

http://jukar.biostat.wisc.edu/pics/images.jpg


Stahhr tha f.e.m.c.e.e

http://jukar.biostat.wisc.edu/pics/Live%2520in%2520Charlotte_jpg.jpg

[ October 19, 2003, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: tiye ]