Your own needles or the Club's needles

[doc]

We EQ'd our system with Stanton 680s. I noticed that the sound changes when DJs bring different needles. Since the system was EQ'd in real time we really don't want to change the settings.

As a DJ are you ok with the house needles?

[djdub63]

I don't trust the clubs needles due to the possible abuse by other Dj's. I travel with 2 sets of needles:

http://www.connect-records.com/imgs/2002826_1718_28.jpg

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:UJH1J3r-xREC:www.hwinternational.co.uk/images/press_thumb25.jpg

[ September 09, 2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: djdub63 ]

[Edmund White]

Bring your own... it's the responsible thing to do. I wouldn't trust my records to a decrepit set of house needles that have probably seen abuse. I travel with 3 or 4 needles in my case..... usually a set of ellipticals (Stanton 890's) and OM-style Ortofon DJ's... if it's a rough environment (house party, etc.), I'll use the Ortofons.... If I'm concerned about sound, I'd pull the Stantons.

[doc]

Thanks for the response.

I understand your problem of the possibility of defective club needles. But we have an equally big problem. With all these different needles sometimes the sound is so off that we are considering asking DJs to bring specific needles.

Is that an unreasonable request?

[D J 1 3 8]

Originally posted by doc:
Thanks for the response.

I understand your problem of the possibility of defective club needles. But we have an equally big problem. With all these different needles sometimes the sound is so off that we are considering asking DJs to bring specific needles.

Is that an unreasonable request? you're essentially asking DJs to purchase a new set of needles to match your club, which is a little bit much to ask of most DJs unless they are permanent residents.

It would seem your best bet would be to constantly replace your own needles so that they are always in good condition, then tell every DJ that they have to use them. Not being able to use your own needles is very common and not a problem at all, as long as the house needles aren't garbage.

Given the wide range of frequency response of different needles, it certainly makes more sense to use the needles that the system has been tuned to.

[AD]

Take your own needles, but ask them first if you can put them on. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/smokin.gif

[JMJ]

While I prefer to use my own, using an all-in-one integrated cartridge is probably the real way to go because they're so easy to set up. I really like the Shure White Label right now. They sound great, appear to be pretty durable, styli replacement cost is minimal, and they track VERY WELL. I normally use Shure SC 35C's, but one of the drawbacks to using a conventional cartridge is having to re-balance the tonearm AND set the tonearm height and anti-skate, which you have to do again after re-installing the club's cartridges. Pain in the ass. With integrated cartridges like the White Label, the Ortofons, or Stanton Groovemaster or Trackmasters, everything is set at zero (tonearm height & anti-skate), making installation very easy. Always re-EQ the room after changing cartridges, as they all sound different......JMJ ;)

[simon b]

The Stanton 680's are high output needles, so for sure there will be a difference. I use my own set of those at one of my residencies, which originally caused some feedback problems. But the difference in sound is quite remarkable between those and say the SC35C's.

Setting the tonearm and anti-skate is not a big deal if you are familiar with your needles.

At my other residency I use the house needles because if I were to use the Stanton's they'd be almost too loud. I trust the owner of that club 100% when it comes to the equipment (how many of us are fortunate enough to say that!) There are always fresh needles and an extra set of cartridges in the office. Plus at that gig I play with other people and changing needles a few times throughout the course of the night would be kind of impossible.

Anyway Doc it's nice to see an club owner actually care about this!!!!

[GrantB]

Any half decent DJ cart is basically flat across the audio range. They can sound very different, but it isn't necessarily a question of frequency response (which EQing would fix). If there were any anomalies worth messing with (assuming a decent cart), they would probably be beyond the capabilities of a 1/3 octave EQ.

If by "real time" you mean your system is tuned with a RTA (real time analyzer), the carts were most likely out of the loop anyway. The RTA typically has it's own noise generator which is usually plugged into a mixer channel or right after the mixer to generate the signal to tune (EQ) against. Unless you were tuning it by ear to a music or test record, the carts play no part in the eqing of the system (nor should they IMO, see above).

[ September 09, 2003, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: GrantB ]

[GrantB]

Originally posted by simon b:
Anyway Doc it's nice to see an club owner actually care about this!!!! graemlins/respekt.gif

[Chris Conrad]

Originally posted by simon b:
The Stanton 680's are high output needles, so for sure there will be a difference. I use my own set of those at one of my residencies, which originally caused some feedback problems. But the difference in sound is quite remarkable between those and say the SC35C's.

Setting the tonearm and anti-skate is not a big deal if you are familiar with your needles.

At my other residency I use the house needles because if I were to use the Stanton's they'd be almost too loud. I trust the owner of that club 100% when it comes to the equipment (how many of us are fortunate enough to say that!) There are always fresh needles and an extra set of cartridges in the office. Plus at that gig I play with other people and changing needles a few times throughout the course of the night would be kind of impossible.

Anyway Doc it's nice to see an club owner actually care about this!!!! Only the Stanton 680HP is the high output version of that series. The original 680EL and the newer 680ELII have a low output.

The reality is, most club owners do not care about needles and have no clue what you are talking about half the time. Every local gig I've done this year I had to bring my own pair of cartridges for various reasons. Many clubs do not even have their own pair of cartridges! If they do, they are usually destroyed by previous dj's or the stylus is never changed. I've learned to always take my pair of 680HP's no matter where I go except for a few places. I've seen all kinds of crazy stuff lately by so called dj's at clubs...the last gig I did the dj was playing with the gains all the way up on the mixer, the faders all the way up and all the eq's all the way up! Place sounded like one big blown speaker, but he claimed you needed to play like this to make it sound good. There are only a few places I have played at that maintain cartridges never mind the actual turntables, or who have replacement styli available for their own cartridges.

Additionally...Ortofon Concordes yield a gritty, exaggerated high end and should not be used to eq anything. Except maybe the inside of a garbage can.

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Most clubs don't supply needles because at the end of the night they won't be there.

[muel]

Additionally...Ortofon Concordes yield a gritty, exaggerated high end and should not be used to eq anything. Except maybe the inside of a garbage can. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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graemlins/rofl.gif he heee

[ September 10, 2003, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: muel ]

[So easy a protic can do it (QUAD)]

Originally posted by doc:
We EQ'd our system with Stanton 680s. I noticed that the sound changes when DJs bring different needles. Since the system was EQ'd in real time we really don't want to change the settings.

As a DJ are you ok with the house needles? "MY NEEDLES!!!" I SPUN AT A CLUB RECENTLY AND THE NEEDLES THEY HAD SUCKED MAJOR!!! I BOUGHT MY OWN AND EVERYTHINGS FINE. MAYBE THE CLUB SHOULD DO A MAINTENANCE CHECK ON THE SYSTEM AND DO UPKEEP OF THE NEEDLES THAT ARE QUALITY, WE AS DJ'S WOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BRINGING OUR OWN.

[doc]

Originally posted by GrantB:
Any half decent DJ cart is basically flat across the audio range. They can sound very different, but it isn't necessarily a question of frequency response (which EQing would fix). If there were any anomalies worth messing with (assuming a decent cart), they would probably be beyond the capabilities of a 1/3 octave EQ.

If by "real time" you mean your system is tuned with a RTA (real time analyzer), the carts were most likely out of the loop anyway. The RTA typically has it's own noise generator which is usually plugged into a mixer channel or right after the mixer to generate the signal to tune (EQ) against. Unless you were tuning it by ear to a music or test record, the carts play no part in the eqing of the system (nor should they IMO, see above). You're right! We do use the RTA to get the best setting given the acoustics of the room and speaker placement. This brings us into the ball park. But after that we use a test record for fine tuning. At moderate sound levels variations from these settings--as are produced by different needles or poor quality bootleg records--are quite obvious, at least to my ear. Of course, if the DJ has all the gains on 10 then it really doesn't matter since at that point the music essentially becomes noise.