metaphorically speaking, can white people do cornrows?

[ngeso]

OR,

to put it more directly (B/C this question has been bothering me for a couple of weeks now):

Can White people teach and tell Black history ?

i did not attend college in the US, so i do not know whether this is an everyday thing or whether it is frowned upon. but i'm thinking maybe of an academic setting. what are the criteria? what are the qualifications needed? can it be done? would it be legitimate? would you attend class?

i'm interested in your 'ifs' and 'buts', and if it is 'not', then tell me why not, B/C i'd like to know.

thanks, people. ngeso.

[Ken1015]

To paraphrase Michael Corleone, "Just when I thought we were out, you pull us back in." Now to your question, and this will be my only comment in this thread. In one of the Afro-American studies courses I took in college our black instructor once commented how one of the foremost scholars in Afro-American history was a white person. Unfortunately his name escapes me but my instructor noted that this person was responsible for setting up the Afro-American studies departments at one of our finest universities. Again I'm sorry but the school's name also escapes me. You may dismiss this info as hearsay if you wish since I have no names but to why wouldn't a white person be able to learn and empathize with black history?

[danny webb]

If a white person 'couldn't' teach Black History, does thisd mean only a Greek can teach Greek history?
If that is the case history is all but lost because no one would be able to teach 'on behalf' of races & civilizations that are now extinct.

I think a white person can tell black history, but may struggle to 'relate' black history. But maybe the problem lies with the recipient?

[Monny JcIntosh]

Ronald Segal ("Black Diaspora") is white, and of Jewish background.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by ngeso:
OR,

to put it more directly (B/C this question has been bothering me for a couple of weeks now):

Can White people teach and tell Black history ?


yup....

[TAD]

Originally posted by Soulful1015:
In one of the Afro-American studies courses I took in college our black instructor once commented how one of the foremost scholars in Afro-American history was a white person. Unfortunately his name escapes me but my instructor noted that this person was responsible for setting up the Afro-American studies departments at one of our finest universities. Again I'm sorry but the school's name also escapes me.Mark D. Naison?/Fordham University

[ngeso]

keep it coming.

[Hk]

Let me help ya out with no offense to any white cats overseas (outside of amerikkka).

Blacks let alone whites dont teach our kids to think critically, sheeez, that's only done when they need to make more money it would seem.

Whites teaching blacks about their history is a F'd up thing. Sure, it can be performed, but how is the question. Surely, unless you're a Joe Slovo or something (now that wouldnt be bad), AMERIKKAN whites---(IN GENERAL), will take a passive view and standpoint.

Besides, its these same white teachers that suck the self-esteem out of our kids when they're young. I dont think they'll be taught with the revolutionary spirit (not that blacks would) that like Patrck Henry had, "liberty or death" type of stuff.

If they did, oh yeah, go right ahead and teach em!

[The Donger]

Bono from U2 has done more for Afrikkka and been to Afrikkka more times than almost any Afrikkkan Amerikkkan.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
Bono from U2 has done more for Afrikkka and been to Afrikkka more times than almost any Afrikkkan Amerikkkan. ...and more times than any white amerikkkans, why can't there be more bono's?

[Koffy Brown]

and more African Americans...

[daniel]

Originally posted by Hk:


Besides, its these same white teachers that suck the self-esteem out of our kids when they're young. oh my god, you're a fvcking moron.

[mhd]

Originally posted by daniel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hk:


Besides, its these same white teachers that suck the self-esteem out of our kids when they're young. oh my god, you're a fvcking moron. </font>[/QUOTE]of course that never happens

[daniel]

umm, "these same white teachers" makes up a pretty large group of people. don't you think?

i can picture it now, secret white teacher/parent only PTA meetings being held to discuss how they can keep the black kids from learning...oh yeah.

my cousin teaches learning deficient kids in an all black school in jersey city, she regales me with stories of how she's sucking the self esteem out of 12 year olds who are still in the second grade.

[YUJI-SAN]

bump^

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by daniel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hk:


Besides, its these same white teachers that suck the self-esteem out of our kids when they're young. oh my god, you're a fvcking moron. </font>[/QUOTE]Daniel watch the name calling. Note I have not read the above posts yet but Linda works in the Madison Public School system and there is a BIG issue with white teacher's low expectations of black kids affecting there performance. Kids will get away with murder if you let them. I'll see if I can dig up a few of the numerous articles that have been written here lately.

-G

[mhd]

Originally posted by daniel:
umm, "these same white teachers" makes up a pretty large group of people. don't you think?

i can picture it now, secret white teacher/parent only PTA meetings being held to discuss how they can keep the black kids from learning...oh yeah.

my cousin teaches learning deficient kids in an all black school in jersey city, she regales me with stories of how she's sucking the self esteem out of 12 year olds who are still in the second grade. okay, why not try talking to the students. once again, someone is offended by the speck of generalization and ignores the mountain of truth. obviously, you have never parented a black kid in school.

the shit is so pervasive, sometimes i do think they meet and coordinate

[YUJI-SAN]

Gman what you need is a Moderator

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by YUJI BR0WN:
Gman what you need is a Moderator ;)

[daniel]

Originally posted by mhd:
someone is offended by the speck of generalization and ignores the mountain of truth. obviously, you have never parented a black kid in school.

yes, obviously i have not.

gman, i apologize and i don't at the same time. i'm just getting a little tired of the stereotyping and critical posts from members of the board that are certainly letting their asses do their typing.

[mhd]

Originally posted by daniel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
someone is offended by the speck of generalization and ignores the mountain of truth. obviously, you have never parented a black kid in school.

yes, obviously i have not.

gman, i apologize and i don't at the same time. i'm just getting a little tired of the stereotyping and critical posts from members of the board that are certainly letting their asses do their typing. </font>[/QUOTE]not sure about your obsession with my ass, but, it would help if you knew what you were talking about. obviously you are talking out of ignorance and fear instead of trying to learn something from people that may know a little more than you. i have no confidence in your willingness to dig a little deeper.

[Hk]

Thanks MHD, but I think he was referring to I....big up though.

My apologies Daniel for offending you with the generalization....I firmly believe that I am smart enough not include ALL whites. (sincerely)..

That being said, then what does suck the self-esteem out of them?...and if this helps, I'll start it off...

1. THEIR OWN KIND
2. THEIR FAMILIES
3. THEIR BUDDIES
4. The society in which they live, its not theirs in my book(U.S.)

your turn......

Note: these are all generalizations that have deviations....sure...but that's they way I speak (I'd be here forever and a day trying to convey a point and I am bad enough with errors and grammar now as it is, sheez, go easy on me..... :D )....

....of course there's always the "no read Hk!'s--the proper way its spelled--posts..... smile.gif

[Dr. Freud]

What's with the KKK spelling of America?

[daniel]

Originally posted by Hk:


My apologies Daniel for offending you with the generalization.... thank you. i think this is the first time i've ever seen this here.

i don't think that what people here are saying is completely wrong, just the way some people explain their opinion is a bit anger-tinged when it doesn't need to be. that's all, when you show up all pissed, why expect anything less in return?

[The Donger]

Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
What's with the KKK spelling of America? It's the same thing with AfriKKKa. I am confused.

[The Donger]

The answer is yes.

Rent Barbershop. That white kid can hook a brotha up with a nasty fade.

[mhd]

Originally posted by daniel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hk:


My apologies Daniel for offending you with the generalization.... thank you. i think this is the first time i've ever seen this here.

i don't think that what people here are saying is completely wrong, just the way some people explain their opinion is a bit anger-tinged when it doesn't need to be. that's all, when you show up all pissed, why expect anything less in return? </font>[/QUOTE]again, if you parented a black kid in school under these condititions you would be angry too. now that you have your apology...

[ May 15, 2003, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: mhd ]

[TAD]

Originally posted by daniel:
thank you. i think this is the first time i've ever seen this here.

i don't think that what people here are saying is completely wrong, just the way some people explain their opinion is a bit anger-tinged when it doesn't need to be. that's all, when you show up all pissed, why expect anything less in return? you're such a sensitive ****? why the hell would you get your panties in a bunch? this is not about you. i actually thought you were a lot more level headed than this, being able to dish out all your crap on the kuo, but when it comes to sensitive issues that you obviously have no experience in, you have no idea how to put your own insecurities aside & LISTEN to people that have direct encounters with these delicate issues.

you should be the one apologizing.

[daniel]

again, if you parented a black kid in school under these condititions you would be angry too. now that you have your apology...i don't doubt it, but you can't equate your experience with every teacher in every school across the country. right?

[ May 15, 2003, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: daniel ]

[daniel]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by daniel:
thank you. i think this is the first time i've ever seen this here.

i don't think that what people here are saying is completely wrong, just the way some people explain their opinion is a bit anger-tinged when it doesn't need to be. that's all, when you show up all pissed, why expect anything less in return? you're such a sensitive ****? why the hell would you get your panties in a bunch? this is not about you. i actually thought you were a lot more level headed than this, being able to dish out all your crap on the kuo, but when it comes to sensitive issues that you obviously have no experience in, you have no idea how to put your own insecurities aside & LISTEN to people that have direct encounters with these delicate issues.

you should be the one apologizing. </font>[/QUOTE]zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz at the lateness. now you screwed up my response to mhd.

i never stated i had experience in raising a black child in public schools, and never took a position that would imply this.

i am LISTENING (or reading), how the hell do you think i took offense to something?

[Hk]

Take it easy U cats....

Yes, my posts do come across with anger....and I got 450 years worth (allegorically speaking but the type of reading I've been doing for the past 12-15 years has been everything other than the newspaper and TV....shows what knowledge will do for you, especially if you accept the responsibility that YOU (meaning me, Hk!, in this instance) havent done SH*T!...but will be accountable 4 it one day.

I was taught if you're wrong you better apologize, to The Creator first and then to the one whom you offend--u'll be accountable for it.
Besides it just makes you more of a man, a responsible one.

Here's a list apology to anyone else I've offended in the past, present or future.

Incidentally, I am trying to build bridges not burn them and learn to re-read my messages for errors....... :D

graemlins/acclaim.gif

Now dont go blasting me and sh*t....

[Bold Soul]

Fascism.

[TAD]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Fascism. there's a little fascist in each & every one of us Bold Soul.

[floorgasm]

i think it's kinda like when my uncle says "so-damn insane" for "saddam hussein." he thinks he's being clever, but he's really not.

[Mah'chew]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ngeso:
OR,

to put it more directly (B/C this question has been bothering me for a couple of weeks now):

Can White people teach and tell Black history ?


yup.... </font>[/QUOTE]I second that with a MHD ;)

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Fascism. there's a little fascist in each & every one of us Bold Soul. </font>[/QUOTE]Speak for yourself.

[DeesKo]

I would look really really stupid with cornrows.

[dVine]

Originally posted by Hk:
Yes, my posts do come across with anger....and I got 450 years worthwho are you angry at?

[Hk]

(I love questions like this, ya ready....)

MYSELF, for not being smart enough, energetic enough, confident enought to believe, just believe that I can make a difference....

Next question....

[TAD]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Fascism. there's a little fascist in each & every one of us Bold Soul. </font>[/QUOTE]Speak for yourself. </font>[/QUOTE]who said i was implicating you?

[TAD]

Originally posted by daniel:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz at the lateness. now you screwed up my response to mhd.

i never stated i had experience in raising a black child in public schools, and never took a position that would imply this.

i am LISTENING (or reading), how the hell do you think i took offense to something? why should you take offense?

web page (http://collections.ic.gc.ca/magic/mt6.html)

[ May 16, 2003, 04:07 AM: Message edited by: Cosmic_Twin ]

[TAD]

Originally posted by Hk:
(I love questions like this, ya ready....)

MYSELF, for not being smart enough, energetic enough, confident enought to believe, just believe that I can make a difference....

Next question.... don't be so hard on yourself. you've obviously crossed that path to better understanding.

[TAD]

Originally posted by floorgasm:
i think it's kinda like when my uncle says "so-damn insane" for "saddam hussein." he thinks he's being clever, but he's really not. bushshit!!!

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by dVine:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hk:
Yes, my posts do come across with anger....and I got 450 years worthwho are you angry at? </font>[/QUOTE]
Originally posted by Hk:
(I love questions like this, ya ready....)

MYSELF, for not being smart enough, energetic enough, confident enought to believe, just believe that I can make a difference....

Next question.... Wow your 450 years old I am surprised you can type.

Seriously, you can and probably are making a difference, but the 450 years past, they are gone now so you won't be able to touch those years, just the future ones.

[Hk]

Totally agree Martin, but think,
with all those years of mental stagnation,
blaiming someone else, shows how much work
I need to do....(WE)........

The real struggle exists within our own selves!

[nev m]

Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by nev m:
Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon. absolutely

[ngeso]

Originally posted by nev m:
Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon. the quality of teaching is tied to a felt 'involvement', which in this case can mean colour?

[The Donger]

What makes you think a white person can't feel enough for black history to be able to teach it passionately?

[lola desire]

Originally posted by daniel:
umm, "these same white teachers" makes up a pretty large group of people. don't you think?

i can picture it now, secret white teacher/parent only PTA meetings being held to discuss how they can keep the black kids from learning...oh yeah.

my cousin teaches learning deficient kids in an all black school in jersey city, she regales me with stories of how she's sucking the self esteem out of 12 year olds who are still in the second grade. the kids she teaches might not even have "learning deficiencies"... but it's easy and traditional to label people here in the states.

[The Donger]

Originally posted by lola desire:
but it's easy and traditional to label people here in the states. and on this message board.

[lola desire]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lola desire:
but it's easy and traditional to label people here in the states. and on this message board. </font>[/QUOTE]yeah, ain't that the truth. graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[And]

If the teacher is well versed on their subject, why couldn't they? In college I took an African women writer's course taught by a Caucasian lady. This lady blew me away when we got to Nigerian literature 'cause not only did she educate me on a lot of writers I didn't know about but she spoke fluent Hausa and really had unique perspectives to teach from. I only noted her whiteness 'cause I don't meet that many Hausa speaking, caucasian African lit. teachers.

[The Donger]

If I'm not mistaken, most black people (and white people) don't know jack about black history.

I don't think this is the time to be choosy. Spreading this knowledge is vital in regards to understanding one another, regardless of the color of the teacher. It won't serve the "bigger picture" much to think otherwise.

Keep in mind there are white people who care more about black history than some black people.

[And]

True

[mhd]

this is a stupid question, of course they can teach black history (as if its any different than history) the real question is why don't they do it??

[ngeso]

side question (honest, B/C i do not know): do esteemed colleges like Morehouse or Spelman admit non-African American students to their programmes?

[The Donger]

MHD, do you mean why aren't there white teachers teaching black history classes? If that's your question, there are plenty.

If you wanna know why it's not part of the general history, maybe it's because blacks are a small make up of this country's population? Black Boy was required reading text in my high school.

[mhd]

Originally posted by ngeso:
side question (honest, B/C i do not know): do esteemed colleges like Morehouse or Spelman admit non-African American students to their programmes? absolutely, in fact they admit quite a few

[Leslie]

Originally posted by ngeso:
side question (honest, B/C i do not know): do esteemed colleges like Morehouse or Spelman admit non-African American students to their programmes? Of course! That would be illegal and reverse discrimination. I can confidently say that just about all of the HBCU's (Historically Black Colleges and Universities) have a sizeable white presence on their campuses - many of these students are commuters and part time, but they are there none the less.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
MHD, do you mean why aren't there white teachers teaching black history classes? If that's your question, there are plenty.

If you wanna know why it's not part of the general history, maybe it's because blacks are a small make up of this country's population? Black Boy was required reading text in my high school. c'mon man, history teaching is woefully inadequate. and please make an argument that makes sense, small population? that's ridiculous. our impact on this culture is immense. but you would not know that because black history is not taught in schools

[The Donger]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
MHD, do you mean why aren't there white teachers teaching black history classes? If that's your question, there are plenty.

If you wanna know why it's not part of the general history, maybe it's because blacks are a small make up of this country's population? Black Boy was required reading text in my high school. c'mon man, history teaching is woefully inadequate. and please make an argument that makes sense, small population? that's ridiculous. our impact on this culture is immense. but you would not know that because black history is not taught in schools </font>[/QUOTE]Where did I question the impact of blacks?

This is a democracy, therefore small population can = not enough representation, or maybe blacks just don't succesfully band together to make these changes.

[Koffy Brown]

[/qb][/QUOTE]Where did I question the impact of blacks?

This is a democracy, therefore small population can = not enough representation, or maybe blacks just don't succesfully band together to make these changes. [/QB][/QUOTE]

concur

[mhd]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
MHD, do you mean why aren't there white teachers teaching black history classes? If that's your question, there are plenty.

If you wanna know why it's not part of the general history, maybe it's because blacks are a small make up of this country's population? Black Boy was required reading text in my high school. c'mon man, history teaching is woefully inadequate. and please make an argument that makes sense, small population? that's ridiculous. our impact on this culture is immense. but you would not know that because black history is not taught in schools </font>[/QUOTE]Where did I question the impact of blacks?

This is a democracy, therefore small population can = not enough representation, or maybe blacks just don't succesfully band together to make these changes. </font>[/QUOTE]is it your life's purpose to undermine and marginalize black people? are you a high-school dropout? black people have been involved in every major change in this country. please look at the constitution and every amendment for starters. your lack of knowledge is a prime example of how inadequate the teaching of black history is in this country. please do some research before you respond. you got a lot of homework to do.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
Where did I question the impact of blacks?

This is a democracy, therefore small population can = not enough representation, or maybe blacks just don't succesfully band together to make these changes. [/QB][/QUOTE]

concur [/QB][/QUOTE]

incorrect, ever heard of congressional districts. do you know who your congress person is? has your district been re-drawn recently? did you realize that afrikanners were a minority in South Africa but ruled for generations? are you aware that in every major national election the black vote is pivotal in determining the outcome?

[The Donger]

Originally posted by mhd:
is it your life's purpose to undermine and marginalize black people? are you a high-school dropout? black people have been involved in every major change in this country. please look at the constitution and every amendment for starters. your lack of knowledge is a prime example of how inadequate the teaching of black history is in this country. please do some research before you respond. you got a lot of homework to do. No, that's not my purpose in life. Your below marginal reading comprehension must've led you to think otherwise. I do not question the impact of blacks, in fact I would have love to learn more about black history in school, but was forced to do so through my own through casual reading and the occasional PBS documentary.

What is your problem?

[The Donger]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
Where did I question the impact of blacks?

This is a democracy, therefore small population can = not enough representation, or maybe blacks just don't succesfully band together to make these changes. </font>[/QUOTE]concur [/QB][/QUOTE]

incorrect, ever heard of congressional districts. do you know who your congress person is? has your district been re-drawn recently? did you realize that afrikanners were a minority in South Africa but ruled for generations? are you aware that in every major national election the black vote is pivotal in determining the outcome? [/QB][/QUOTE]

Can does not = must. It was a guess and I was implying it was only a possibility, read again angry child.

So why haven't blacks been able to change the amount of black history taught in schools?

I would like to know, if you know the answer that is...

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nev m:
Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon. absolutely </font>[/QUOTE]Fascism.

[The Donger]

Another thing to ponder, would I really be on this board if I didn't give a **** about black culture?

[Koffy Brown]

or maybe blacks just don't succesfully band together to make these changes.

Concur


So why haven't blacks been able to change the amount of black history taught in schools?

see above bold(ed) statement

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nev m:
Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon. absolutely </font>[/QUOTE]Fascism. </font>[/QUOTE]Simple minded...

[The Donger]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
or maybe blacks just don't succesfully band together to make these changes.

Concur


So why haven't blacks been able to change the amount of black history taught in schools?

see above bold(ed) statement I would like to hear someone else's view/opinion.

[ May 16, 2003, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Ghost Of Donger ]

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nev m:
Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon. absolutely </font>[/QUOTE]Fascism. </font>[/QUOTE]Simple minded... </font>[/QUOTE]Call it what you wish - a predisposition to "OUR" and "WE" and other bullshit is FASCISM. That American history that reflects blacks is BLACK HISTORY is FASCISM.

Negroes in America are a fascist regime without a nation state.

And that the US and the rest of the world don't recognize the direct assimilation and now destruction of the black proletariat in the United States is producing the conditions of fascism in the black community. Ashaki - you and those of your "black first" ilk aren't aware of it because you are the problem.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
or maybe blacks just don't succesfully band together to make these changes.

Concur


So why haven't blacks been able to change the amount of black history taught in schools?

see above bold(ed) statement I would like to hear someone else's view/opinion. </font>[/QUOTE]you can see whomever's point of view...this is MINE...

[The Donger]

Some of my finest lessons in Black History came form the Last Poets.

[Dr. Freud]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ngeso:
side question (honest, B/C i do not know): do esteemed colleges like Morehouse or Spelman admit non-African American students to their programmes? Of course! That would be illegal and reverse discrimination. </font>[/QUOTE]What's reversed about it?

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nev m:
Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon. absolutely </font>[/QUOTE]Fascism. </font>[/QUOTE]Simple minded... </font>[/QUOTE]Call it what you wish - a predisposition to "OUR" and "WE" and other bullshit is FASCISM. That American history that reflects blacks is BLACK HISTORY is FASCISM.

Negroes in America are a fascist regime without a nation state.

And that the US and the rest of the world don't recognize the direct assimilation and now destruction of the black proletariat in the United States is producing the conditions of fascism in the black community. Ashaki - you and those of your "black first" ilk aren't aware of it because you are the problem. </font>[/QUOTE]Do you live in the black community? and the Fact that you want to look at everything in a big beautiful picture is ignorant. I will not deal with life or race and the issues that surround it as a "what if" scenario....for me and those in my community the shit is real and I will continue to look for and work toward real solutions...it is "what it is"...

[RX]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
If I'm not mistaken, most black people (and white people) don't know jack about black history.
...Keep in mind there are white people who care more about black history than some black people. it's not because we haven't TRIED to learn about ourselves, don't get it twisted...

it's innate for children to want to learn about where they came from...the only thing I was taught was about marta luker king and roots...the shyt was boring and stupid and ignorant, so i didn't bother...my mom was intregal in my being up on black history - but i was at the mercy of her 1940-50's education, which we ALL know that in america, the school system couldn't give less than a hoot, right?

so DON'T say there are white people who care more about black history than black folk and leave it at that...there's a very good reason why you may have that illusion - just because we don't know it doesn't mean we don't care...if we knew and were exposed to all the excellence, triumphs and achievements our people made, you think we WOULDN'T care more than others?

[RX]

Originally posted by nev m:
Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon. period.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nev m:
Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon. absolutely </font>[/QUOTE]Fascism. </font>[/QUOTE]Simple minded... </font>[/QUOTE]Call it what you wish - a predisposition to "OUR" and "WE" and other bullshit is FASCISM. That American history that reflects blacks is BLACK HISTORY is FASCISM.

Negroes in America are a fascist regime without a nation state.

And that the US and the rest of the world don't recognize the direct assimilation and now destruction of the black proletariat in the United States is producing the conditions of fascism in the black community. Ashaki - you and those of your "black first" ilk aren't aware of it because you are the problem. </font>[/QUOTE]Do you live in the black community? and the Fact that you want to look at everything in a big beautiful picture is ignorant. I will not deal with life or race and the issues that surround it as a "what if" scenario....for me and those in my community the shit is real and I will continue to look for and work toward real solutions...it is "what it is"... </font>[/QUOTE]Again - more fascism. If I did or didn't live in the "black community" is a prequalifier for my views? If I did, would I make more sense to you?

"The shit is real." - nice propaganda response. Real solutions.

You need to get off that foolish master race bullshit and maybe take a few trips out of your beloved "black community".

BTW - "black community" = slave pens.

[imported_Gman]

When Linda teaches Art History she teaches "all" history. If you were in her class you would realize whats not being taught.

-G

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nev m:
Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon. period. </font>[/QUOTE]Passion without intelligence = destruction. Those who have the quality of temperance make the best teachers.

Black History month in my school was tantamount to black propaganda. We got myths and heroic tales of triumph with wonderfully artistic portraiture and simplistic facts about these saints of the negro experience.

It was the reverse to the "one paragraph" problem described by others. It was the other extreme and just as hollow to my education.

COGNITION.

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ngeso:
side question (honest, B/C i do not know): do esteemed colleges like Morehouse or Spelman admit non-African American students to their programmes? Of course! That would be illegal and reverse discrimination. </font>[/QUOTE]What's reversed about it? </font>[/QUOTE]Ahh..the reason those schools were created in the first place - because the children of slave owners and former slaves who wanted a high education were not allowed to go to white institutions - ya know Plessy V. Feurgeson (seperate but equal)...so for us to say you can't come here because you are white would be reverse descrimination.

[The Donger]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
If I'm not mistaken, most black people (and white people) don't know jack about black history.
...Keep in mind there are white people who care more about black history than some black people. it's not because we haven't TRIED to learn about ourselves, don't get it twisted...

it's innate for children to want to learn about where they came from...the only thing I was taught was about marta luker king and roots...the shyt was boring and stupid and ignorant, so i didn't bother...my mom was intregal in my being up on black history - but i was at the mercy of her 1940-50's education, which we ALL know that in america, the school system couldn't give less than a hoot, right?

so DON'T say there are white people who care more about black history than black folk and leave it at that...there's a very good reason why you may have that illusion - just because we don't know it doesn't mean we don't care...if we knew and were exposed to all the excellence, triumphs and achievements our people made, you think we WOULDN'T care more than others? </font>[/QUOTE]The only illusion you have is that all black people want to learn about black history. Not all people care about where they are from. Same goes for whites. All I am saying is that there are some whites that care about it more than blacks do, the proof is the ones who major in it in college, and end up teaching the classes in the end.

It sucks that black education is not part of elementary schools. It is a good thing though that if blacks DO want to learn about it, they can go to the library and pick up a book and educate themselves on it until the school curriculum is changed.

As far as TRY to learn? You gotta be kidding me, it's not that hard to educate yourself on ANY subjects that aren't taught as part of an official school curriculum with libraries, bookstores, PBS, and the internet available to people of all genders, colors, and economic class.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nev m:
Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon. absolutely </font>[/QUOTE]Fascism. </font>[/QUOTE]Simple minded... </font>[/QUOTE]Call it what you wish - a predisposition to "OUR" and "WE" and other bullshit is FASCISM. That American history that reflects blacks is BLACK HISTORY is FASCISM.

Negroes in America are a fascist regime without a nation state.

And that the US and the rest of the world don't recognize the direct assimilation and now destruction of the black proletariat in the United States is producing the conditions of fascism in the black community. Ashaki - you and those of your "black first" ilk aren't aware of it because you are the problem. </font>[/QUOTE]Do you live in the black community? and the Fact that you want to look at everything in a big beautiful picture is ignorant. I will not deal with life or race and the issues that surround it as a "what if" scenario....for me and those in my community the shit is real and I will continue to look for and work toward real solutions...it is "what it is"... </font>[/QUOTE]Again - more fascism. If I did or didn't live in the "black community" is a prequalifier for my views? If I did, would I make more sense to you?

"The shit is real." - nice propaganda response. Real solutions.

You need to get off that foolish master race bullshit and maybe take a few trips out of your beloved "black community".

BTW - "black community" = slave pens. </font>[/QUOTE]Been out of my Black community, have 2 degrees, and traveled the world...so now what...let me say this to you and be through with it...you've offered your way of looking at things...I don't agree as simple as that...I'VE REJECTED your logic and your way of understanding, so get over it and yourself, actually once I hit the "add reply" button, I will be so over you....the fact that I HAVE LOVE FOR MY PEOPLE and am devoted to making things better for "us" is MY purpose..I have 2 sons who will not only be judged by their character but also by the color of their skin...it's apparent, it's inevitable, it's ****ing real....so for me, it means preparing them to be the best BLACK MEN that they can be, and I would do the same outside of my "beloved slave pen"....com-pren-****ing-de....

peace

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nev m:
Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon. absolutely </font>[/QUOTE]Fascism. </font>[/QUOTE]Simple minded... </font>[/QUOTE]Call it what you wish - a predisposition to "OUR" and "WE" and other bullshit is FASCISM. That American history that reflects blacks is BLACK HISTORY is FASCISM.

Negroes in America are a fascist regime without a nation state.

And that the US and the rest of the world don't recognize the direct assimilation and now destruction of the black proletariat in the United States is producing the conditions of fascism in the black community. Ashaki - you and those of your "black first" ilk aren't aware of it because you are the problem. </font>[/QUOTE]Do you live in the black community? and the Fact that you want to look at everything in a big beautiful picture is ignorant. I will not deal with life or race and the issues that surround it as a "what if" scenario....for me and those in my community the shit is real and I will continue to look for and work toward real solutions...it is "what it is"... </font>[/QUOTE]Again - more fascism. If I did or didn't live in the "black community" is a prequalifier for my views? If I did, would I make more sense to you?

"The shit is real." - nice propaganda response. Real solutions.

You need to get off that foolish master race bullshit and maybe take a few trips out of your beloved "black community".

BTW - "black community" = slave pens. </font>[/QUOTE]Been out of my Black community, have 2 degrees, and traveled the world...so now what...let me say this to you and be through with it...you've offered your way of looking at things...I don't agree as simple as that...I'VE REJECTED your logic and your way of understanding, so get over it and yourself, actually once I hit the "add reply" button, I will be so over you....the fact that I HAVE LOVE FOR MY PEOPLE and am devoted to making things better for "us" is MY purpose..I have 2 sons who will not only be judged by their character but also by the color of their skin...it's apparent, it's inevitable, it's ****ing real....so for me, it means preparing them to be the best BLACK MEN that they can be, and I would do the same outside of my "beloved slave pen"....com-pren-****ing-de....

peace </font>[/QUOTE]Heil! I make certain my jackboots are shined.

[Dr. Freud]

Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace

[ May 16, 2003, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Freud ]

[mhd]

Originally posted by Gman:
When Linda teaches Art History she teaches "all" history. If you were in her class you would realize whats not being taught.

-G G - what grade does she teach? and is the curriculum dictated to her, does she have much flexibility?

[mhd]

Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace whites created that term

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
If I'm not mistaken, most black people (and white people) don't know jack about black history.
...Keep in mind there are white people who care more about black history than some black people. it's not because we haven't TRIED to learn about ourselves, don't get it twisted...

it's innate for children to want to learn about where they came from...the only thing I was taught was about marta luker king and roots...the shyt was boring and stupid and ignorant, so i didn't bother...my mom was intregal in my being up on black history - but i was at the mercy of her 1940-50's education, which we ALL know that in america, the school system couldn't give less than a hoot, right?

so DON'T say there are white people who care more about black history than black folk and leave it at that...there's a very good reason why you may have that illusion - just because we don't know it doesn't mean we don't care...if we knew and were exposed to all the excellence, triumphs and achievements our people made, you think we WOULDN'T care more than others? </font>[/QUOTE]The only illusion you have is that all black people want to learn about black history. Not all people care about where they are from. Same goes for whites. All I am saying is that there are some whites that care about it more than blacks do, the proof is the ones who major in it in college, and end up teaching the classes in the end.

It sucks that black education is not part of elementary schools. It is a good thing though that if blacks DO want to learn about it, they can go to the library and pick up a book and educate themselves on it until the school curriculum is changed.

As far as TRY to learn? You gotta be kidding me, it's not that hard to educate yourself on ANY subjects that aren't taught as part of an official school curriculum with libraries, bookstores, PBS, and the internet available to people of all genders, colors, and economic class. </font>[/QUOTE]But then everyone wouldn't be learning the same thing, Donger. Free association - one black kid's "black history" wouldn't be the same as another's. We require UNIFORMITY.

The "black community" wouldn't have a standard for propaganda. We can't have that, now can we.

[TAD]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Black History month in my school was tantamount to black propaganda. We got myths and heroic tales of triumph with wonderfully artistic portraiture and simplistic facts about these saints of the negro experience.i would be curious to hear an example of some of these myths.

[Koffy Brown]

Actually, my oldest sons teacher is white, and she is the absolute best teacher that he has had so far....and until parents make enough noise about the cirriculums that are being taught in these public schools, nothing will change...and for those who are waiting for "African/African-American" history to all of a sudden appear on the agenda....don't hold your breaths...

The information is there if we want it, it's up to us to go forth and seek it out...

[The Donger]

Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace Def not reverse. Check it:

Disrimination: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually b : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment &lt;racial discrimination&gt;

[mhd]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace Def not reverse. Check it:

Disrimination: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually b : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment &lt;racial discrimination&gt; </font>[/QUOTE]whites created that term

[Dr. Freud]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace whites created that term </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks... but so what?

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace What mhd said...

[RX]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
The only illusion you have is that all black people want to learn about black history. Not all people care about where they are from. Same goes for whites. All I am saying is that there are some whites that care about it more than blacks do, the proof is the ones who major in it in college, and end up teaching the classes in the end.

It sucks that black education is not part of elementary schools. It is a good thing though that if blacks DO want to learn about it, they can go to the library and pick up a book and educate themselves on it until the school curriculum is changed.

As far as TRY to learn? You gotta be kidding me, it's not that hard to educate yourself on ANY subjects that aren't taught as part of an official school curriculum with libraries, bookstores, PBS, and the internet available to people of all genders, colors, and economic class. and you think that the "proof" is because lots and lots of white folk have majored in it and teach it? are you kiddin' or just ill-informed?

and EXCUSE me, but what library are you speaking of that all black folk can go to and simply pick up a book about black folk and learn our history? son, not all libraries in our communities have these resources and, as in where i live, you must live here to access the library...

come better than that...you ain't saying shyt trying to convince me that we're not interested in our OWN...

either you're white and jaded or black and need to spend nore time with your people...

[ May 16, 2003, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Ms Rickey X ]

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace Def not reverse. Check it:

Disrimination: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually b : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment &lt;racial discrimination&gt; </font>[/QUOTE]And this is an example of what I believe is the propensity of those in the "black community" to delude themselves as being separate.

Racism against blacks is different than any other racism.

The english language and its standard word definitions are inadequate to describe the experience of blacks.

Try to foster an understanding that is UNIVERSAL and "you just don't understand because you (insert any of the following:)

"don't live in the black community"
"have married outside the black community"
"haven't been educated in OUR HISTORY"

It's all a very destructive crock of shit.

[RX]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nev m:
Anyone can teach about anything, but the man with who feels the plight will teach it better I reckon. period. </font>[/QUOTE]Passion without intelligence = destruction. Those who have the quality of temperance make the best teachers.

Black History month in my school was tantamount to black propaganda. We got myths and heroic tales of triumph with wonderfully artistic portraiture and simplistic facts about these saints of the negro experience.

It was the reverse to the "one paragraph" problem described by others. It was the other extreme and just as hollow to my education.

COGNITION. </font>[/QUOTE]agreed, but if you have "passion", then you are able to "feel the plight"...

[Dr. Freud]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace What mhd said... </font>[/QUOTE]Again, I say: So what? You used the term. Why did you choose to use that word? Could the word "Discrimination" (without the "reverse") have been used to convey the same message?

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
The only illusion you have is that all black people want to learn about black history. Not all people care about where they are from. Same goes for whites. All I am saying is that there are some whites that care about it more than blacks do, the proof is the ones who major in it in college, and end up teaching the classes in the end.

It sucks that black education is not part of elementary schools. It is a good thing though that if blacks DO want to learn about it, they can go to the library and pick up a book and educate themselves on it until the school curriculum is changed.

As far as TRY to learn? You gotta be kidding me, it's not that hard to educate yourself on ANY subjects that aren't taught as part of an official school curriculum with libraries, bookstores, PBS, and the internet available to people of all genders, colors, and economic class. and you think that the "proof" is because lots and lots of white folk have majored in it and teach it? are you kiddin' or just ill-informed?

and EXCUSE me, but what library are you speaking of that all black folk can go to and simply pick up a book about black folk and learn our history? son, not all libraries in our communities have these resources and, as in where i live, you must live here to access the library...

come better than that...you ain't saying shyt trying to convince me that we're not interested in our OWN...

either you're white and jaded or black and need to spend nore time with your people... </font>[/QUOTE]I lived across from Carter G. Woodson library in Chicago at the corner of 95th Street and Halsted St.

I used to play in the dirt mounds when they were building it. Programmed my first computer there when I was 9 years old. Every book you could imagine - electronic Dewey Decimal System access. Tighter than tight staff. Studied there all my life.

More money was spent on that building and its resources than the central library Downtown.

And it was right in the heart of the black community.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace whites created that term </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks... but so what? </font>[/QUOTE]you were asking a question to the wrong people. we asked the same question when it first appeared in the late 70s. sounded like you were asking leslie to defend her use of the term.

[julian_kelly]

1. Many people of all races have been conditioned to belive that black history isnt important -- therefore they dont fight to have it exposed.

2. The battle to have it included in curriculum is tiresome. You have to determine whether you want to go thru the hassle or not. You have to decide if you want to face the negative repercussions (because they will happen). Some people feel 'it aint worth it.'

I remeber in high school, the black students had to petition for two years to have one black history class...and when we did get the course they gave us 10 year old books.

3. As Ashaki said, "...blacks just dont successfully band to make these changes." There are many reasons why....another discussion.

4. Many blacks and other people in american for that matter are most concerned with simple survival and living in todays world. The average person isnt politically/socially conscious.

5. There are so many racist battles to fight in life you have to pick and choose which one to fight....as a result, some simply dont get attention.

6. Point blank....some people are just tired.

julian kelly


Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
or maybe blacks just don't succesfully band together to make these changes.

Concur


So why haven't blacks been able to change the amount of black history taught in schools?

see above bold(ed) statement I would like to hear someone else's view/opinion. </font>[/QUOTE]

[RX]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
com-pren-****ing-de....
icon_rofl.gif

[Bold Soul]

Okay - so everyone gets the history they want to have.

What then?

[mhd]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
The only illusion you have is that all black people want to learn about black history. Not all people care about where they are from. Same goes for whites. All I am saying is that there are some whites that care about it more than blacks do, the proof is the ones who major in it in college, and end up teaching the classes in the end.

It sucks that black education is not part of elementary schools. It is a good thing though that if blacks DO want to learn about it, they can go to the library and pick up a book and educate themselves on it until the school curriculum is changed.

As far as TRY to learn? You gotta be kidding me, it's not that hard to educate yourself on ANY subjects that aren't taught as part of an official school curriculum with libraries, bookstores, PBS, and the internet available to people of all genders, colors, and economic class. and you think that the "proof" is because lots and lots of white folk have majored in it and teach it? are you kiddin' or just ill-informed?

and EXCUSE me, but what library are you speaking of that all black folk can go to and simply pick up a book about black folk and learn our history? son, not all libraries in our communities have these resources and, as in where i live, you must live here to access the library...

come better than that...you ain't saying shyt trying to convince me that we're not interested in our OWN...

either you're white and jaded or black and need to spend nore time with your people... </font>[/QUOTE]I lived across from Carter G. Woodson library in Chicago at the corner of 95th Street and Halsted St.

I used to play in the dirt mounds when they were building it. Programmed my first computer there when I was 9 years old. Every book you could imagine - electronic Dewey Decimal System access. Tighter than tight staff. Studied there all my life.

More money was spent on that building and its resources than the central library Downtown.

And it was right in the heart of the black community. </font>[/QUOTE]spent many hours there, i remember watching it being built too, and realizing that it was also a fitting monument to woodson. seeing that place going up as a kid was a very, very powerful experience for me

[MC]

Originally posted by ngeso:
Can White people teach and tell Black history ?Hell yeah I think knowledge is what matters. To me if you got the educational background and are open minded sure why not?


Originally posted by ngeso:
Can White peple do cornrows?Hell Yeah...!! Anyone can....

[RX]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
I lived across from Carter G. Woodson library in Chicago at the corner of 95th Street and Halsted St.

I used to play in the dirt mounds when they were building it. Programmed my first computer there when I was 9 years old. Every book you could imagine - electronic Dewey Decimal System access. Tighter than tight staff. Studied there all my life.

More money was spent on that building and its resources than the central library Downtown.

And it was right in the heart of the black community. thanks for exposing others to the library right down the street from my folks' crib...however, i said NOT ALL and YOU know that i can say NOT MOST and STILL be right...

just keep it real and we'll be a-ight...

[ May 16, 2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Ms Rickey X ]

[imported_Chr_stopher]

why not ???

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by julian_kelly:
1. Many people of all races have been conditioned to belive that black history isnt important -- therefore they dont fight to have it exposed.

2. The battle to have it included in curriculum is tiresome. You have to determine whether you want to go thru the hassle or not. You have to decide if you want to face the negative repercussions (because they will happen). Some people feel 'it aint worth it.'

I remeber in high school, the black students had to petition for two years to have one black history class...and when we did get the course they gave us 10 year old books.

3. As Ashaki said, "...blacks just dont successfully band to make these changes." There are many reasons why....another discussion.

4. Many blacks and other people in american for that matter are most concerned with simple survival and living in todays world. The average person isnt politically/socially conscious.

5. There are so many racist battles to fight in life you have to pick and choose which one to fight....as a result, some simply dont get attention.

6. Point blank....some people are just tired.

julian kelly

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
or maybe blacks just don't succesfully band together to make these changes.

Concur


So why haven't blacks been able to change the amount of black history taught in schools?

see above bold(ed) statement I would like to hear someone else's view/opinion. </font>[/QUOTE]</font>[/QUOTE]julian I agree with you, and it is a tiring battle...but the race isn't given to the swift, neither is it given to the strong, but those that endureth...what keep me motivated is that I want this shit to be much better for mine and theirs...

peace

[Bold Soul]

And I'll repost this:

I lived across from Carter G. Woodson library in Chicago at the corner of 95th Street and Halsted St.

I used to play in the dirt mounds when they were building it. Programmed my first computer there when I was 9 years old. Every book you could imagine - electronic Dewey Decimal System access. Tighter than tight staff. Studied there all my life.

More money was spent on that building and its resources than the central library Downtown.

And it was right in the heart of the black community. And it was named after a Black man and intended for Blacks. In the most Racist city in the world. With it's comissioning mayor being Richard Daley the First.

Works of art were commissioned for its interior. Speakers were there weekly (I remember seeing Wally Amos from Famous Amos Cookies there when I was 10 years old, speaking about Entreprenurism among blacks).

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace What mhd said... </font>[/QUOTE]Again, I say: So what? You used the term. Why did you choose to use that word? Could the word "Discrimination" (without the "reverse") have been used to convey the same message? </font>[/QUOTE]What the **** difference does it really make? The point is there are plenty of whites that attend Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU's). You trying to show me up over a ****ing term white folks thought up when Allen Bakke's ass couldn't get into med school back in the late 70's early 80's is a bit tired - go ask Bakke's lawyers.

[Dr. Freud]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace whites created that term </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks... but so what? </font>[/QUOTE]you were asking a question to the wrong people. we asked the same question when it first appeared in the late 70s. sounded like you were asking leslie to defend her use of the term. </font>[/QUOTE]I was... I never implied that she (or even any black person) created that term. I just asked her why she used that term.

[ May 16, 2003, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Freud ]

[RX]

and, mr. bold soul, i do have a bone to pick with you, now that you want to respond to my post...why is it that you have so much to say about ashaki's responses (which have been more than correct) and distort my post, yet you allow ghost of donger to come on here and say that SOME white folk care more about black history than black folk just because they major in it and teach it...

are YOU the fascist/traitor in this here thread or what?

[mhd]

Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace What mhd said... </font>[/QUOTE]Again, I say: So what? You used the term. Why did you choose to use that word? Could the word "Discrimination" (without the "reverse") have been used to convey the same message? </font>[/QUOTE]Are you familiar with the term and the way it was used? you asked a question and her response was historically and legally accurate. the creators of the term sought to co-opt the impact of the term "discrimination" by casting the perpetrators of discrimiation as victims, hence, "reverse". it was a very effective strategy and set back the cause of equality and justice.

[The Donger]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
and you think that the "proof" is because lots and lots of white folk have majored in it and teach it? are you kiddin' or just ill-informed?

and EXCUSE me, but what library are you speaking of that all black folk can go to and simply pick up a book about black folk and learn our history? son, not all libraries in our communities have these resources and, as in where i live, you must live here to access the library...

come better than that...you ain't saying shyt trying to convince me that we're not interested in our OWN...

either you're white and jaded or black and need to spend nore time with your people... 1) No my proof is that there are also whites that don't trace thier history. There are just some people that don't give a **** about it regardless of race. So by the same token, are you telling me it's impossible that a black child would be so interested in a certain "white" history (let's say UK for example) that he would care more about it than someone who lives there, and he wouldn't be able to excel at it, and teach it effctively?

Next.

2) As for regional libraries, no one wil stop a black child form entering a library, and reading. And as far as the lack of black history books in your library, it's entirely possible. But I get the feeling you aren't totally sure either. Have you attempted to get books there recently on black history and there were none?

More importantly, what's to stop your from having that situation changed?

Next.

3) White and jaded? Hahahahaaa...

My participation in this thread, along with my posts saying "I wish they would teach more black history in schools" tells you that?

Next.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
I lived across from Carter G. Woodson library in Chicago at the corner of 95th Street and Halsted St.

I used to play in the dirt mounds when they were building it. Programmed my first computer there when I was 9 years old. Every book you could imagine - electronic Dewey Decimal System access. Tighter than tight staff. Studied there all my life.

More money was spent on that building and its resources than the central library Downtown.

And it was right in the heart of the black community. thanks for exposing others to the library right down the street from my folks' crib...however, i said NOT ALL and YOU know that i can say NOT MOST and STILL be right...

just keep it real and we'll be a-ight... </font>[/QUOTE]What is REAL for you isn't REAL for everyone.

REAL is a dangerous term, Rickey.

[ May 16, 2003, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

[RX]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
And I'll repost this:

and i'll reITERRATE this:

YOU THINK EVERY BLACK COMMUNITY HAS IT LIKE THAT? YOU THINK WE DON'T KNOW THAT LIBRARIES LIKE THE WOODSON EXISTS - THOUGH FEW AND WAAAAY FAR IN BETWEEN?

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
and, mr. bold soul, i do have a bone to pick with you, now that you want to respond to my post...why is it that you have so much to say about ashaki's responses (which have been more than correct) and distort my post, yet you allow ghost of donger to come on here and say that SOME white folk care more about black history than black folk just because they major in it and teach it...

are YOU the fascist/traitor in this here thread or what? Didn't Jim Jones offer his cult a logical way of reasoning and understanding?

Some people just don't want to see things through clear vision...maybe if one would take ones' head out of the dictionary and realize that there could possibly be a real world that exsist beyond the thesarus one would then realize that what one says is bullshit... graemlins/rofl.gif and their vision is blurred by big overused words graemlins/rofl.gif

[mhd]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
and, mr. bold soul, i do have a bone to pick with you, now that you want to respond to my post...why is it that you have so much to say about ashaki's responses (which have been more than correct) and distort my post, yet you allow ghost of donger to come on here and say that SOME white folk care more about black history than black folk just because they major in it and teach it...

are YOU the fascist/traitor in this here thread or what? Didn't Jim Jones offer his cult a logical way of reasoning and understanding?

Some people just don't want to see things through clear vision...maybe if one would take ones' head out of the dictionary and realize that there could possibly be a real world that exsist beyond the thesarus one would then realize that what one says is bullshit... graemlins/rofl.gif and their vision is blurred by big overused words graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]it is possible that there may be more than one approach and that smart people with integrity can disagree, right?

[RX]

no, ghost of donger...no one would stop that child from going into that library...but someone would have to take that child AND someone would have to know where to go...

but you obviously cannot understand that, so i am off to find a thread that doesn't go around in the same circle of confusion...

bold soul, keep it "real" means tell the truth...damn...i even have to explain THAT to you...

i love a great discussion but i cannot for the life of me stand it when folk disagree just to "disagree"...

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
And I'll repost this:

and i'll reITERRATE this:

YOU THINK EVERY BLACK COMMUNITY HAS IT LIKE THAT? YOU THINK WE DON'T KNOW THAT LIBRARIES LIKE THE WOODSON EXISTS - THOUGH FEW AND WAAAAY FAR IN BETWEEN? </font>[/QUOTE]But every bus and train in Chicago would get you there. I met white and latin kids there who studied there because the libraries in their own neighborhood sucked.

But what is your standard for Blacks - should every five square miles of "black community" have a Woodson Library? Should they put one in every district in the US?

Should REPARATIONS pay for it?

It's all propagandistic bullshit.

[Dr. Freud]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace What mhd said... </font>[/QUOTE]Again, I say: So what? You used the term. Why did you choose to use that word? Could the word "Discrimination" (without the "reverse") have been used to convey the same message? </font>[/QUOTE]What the **** difference does it really make? The point is there are plenty of whites that attend Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU's). You trying to show me up over a ****ing term white folks thought up when Allen Bakke's ass couldn't get into med school back in the late 70's early 80's is a bit tired - go ask Bakke's lawyers. </font>[/QUOTE]Whoa. No one is trying to show anyone up here. I studied Social and Cross-Cultural Psychology in college, and the term is highly debated, so it interested me to see why people still use this word.

-Peace

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
and, mr. bold soul, i do have a bone to pick with you, now that you want to respond to my post...why is it that you have so much to say about ashaki's responses (which have been more than correct) and distort my post, yet you allow ghost of donger to come on here and say that SOME white folk care more about black history than black folk just because they major in it and teach it...

are YOU the fascist/traitor in this here thread or what? Didn't Jim Jones offer his cult a logical way of reasoning and understanding?

Some people just don't want to see things through clear vision...maybe if one would take ones' head out of the dictionary and realize that there could possibly be a real world that exsist beyond the thesarus one would then realize that what one says is bullshit... graemlins/rofl.gif and their vision is blurred by big overused words graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]it is possible that there may be more than one approach and that smart people with integrity can disagree, right? </font>[/QUOTE]Ah - don't be too intelligent, Mark. It might be seditious.

Ashaki - don't blame my logic and unorthodoxed views if, after two degrees and all your glorious black experience, the nigger in you still lives.

[ May 16, 2003, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

[TAD]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Black History month in my school was tantamount to black propaganda. We got myths and heroic tales of triumph with wonderfully artistic portraiture and simplistic facts about these saints of the negro experience.i would be curious to hear an example of some of these myths. </font>[/QUOTE]BOLD SOUL can you you please give me some examples of the Black propaganda of which you speak of, "the myths and heroic tales of triumph with wonderfully artistic portraiture and simplistic facts about these saints of the negro experience."

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace What mhd said... </font>[/QUOTE]Again, I say: So what? You used the term. Why did you choose to use that word? Could the word "Discrimination" (without the "reverse") have been used to convey the same message? </font>[/QUOTE]What the **** difference does it really make? The point is there are plenty of whites that attend Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU's). You trying to show me up over a ****ing term white folks thought up when Allen Bakke's ass couldn't get into med school back in the late 70's early 80's is a bit tired - go ask Bakke's lawyers. </font>[/QUOTE]Whoa. No one is trying to show anyone up here. I studied Social and Cross-Cultural Psychology in college, and the term is highly debated, so it interested me to see why people still use this word.

-Peace </font>[/QUOTE]Understood - forgive me anger, but that's how I read it as being.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
and, mr. bold soul, i do have a bone to pick with you, now that you want to respond to my post...why is it that you have so much to say about ashaki's responses (which have been more than correct) and distort my post, yet you allow ghost of donger to come on here and say that SOME white folk care more about black history than black folk just because they major in it and teach it...

are YOU the fascist/traitor in this here thread or what? Didn't Jim Jones offer his cult a logical way of reasoning and understanding?

Some people just don't want to see things through clear vision...maybe if one would take ones' head out of the dictionary and realize that there could possibly be a real world that exsist beyond the thesarus one would then realize that what one says is bullshit... graemlins/rofl.gif and their vision is blurred by big overused words graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]it is possible that there may be more than one approach and that smart people with integrity can disagree, right? </font>[/QUOTE]That is beyond a possibility but real...I think you see the problem...I'm over it...I would think that the majority of the people on this board is smart, educated and intelligent and it's obvious that they all don't agree...

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Black History month in my school was tantamount to black propaganda. We got myths and heroic tales of triumph with wonderfully artistic portraiture and simplistic facts about these saints of the negro experience.i would be curious to hear an example of some of these myths. </font>[/QUOTE]BOLD SOUL can you you please give me some examples of the Black propaganda of which you speak of, "the myths and heroic tales of triumph with wonderfully artistic portraiture and simplistic facts about these saints of the negro experience." </font>[/QUOTE]Well, I don't quite have any of my schoolwork from 25 years ago on me, Cosmic. Sorry about that.
:rolleyes:

Black history in my schools (the first magnet school class in Chicago, mind you - so there shouldn't be any excuse) was on some 'ol simplistic "feel good" shit.

Not much was REAL about it.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
and, mr. bold soul, i do have a bone to pick with you, now that you want to respond to my post...why is it that you have so much to say about ashaki's responses (which have been more than correct) and distort my post, yet you allow ghost of donger to come on here and say that SOME white folk care more about black history than black folk just because they major in it and teach it...

are YOU the fascist/traitor in this here thread or what? Didn't Jim Jones offer his cult a logical way of reasoning and understanding?

Some people just don't want to see things through clear vision...maybe if one would take ones' head out of the dictionary and realize that there could possibly be a real world that exsist beyond the thesarus one would then realize that what one says is bullshit... graemlins/rofl.gif and their vision is blurred by big overused words graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]it is possible that there may be more than one approach and that smart people with integrity can disagree, right? </font>[/QUOTE]Ah - don't be too intelligent, Mark. It might be seditious.

Ashaki - don't blame my logic and unorthodoxed views if, after two degrees and all your glorious black experience, the nigger in you still lives. </font>[/QUOTE]maybe a little nigger is what you need...

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
and, mr. bold soul, i do have a bone to pick with you, now that you want to respond to my post...why is it that you have so much to say about ashaki's responses (which have been more than correct) and distort my post, yet you allow ghost of donger to come on here and say that SOME white folk care more about black history than black folk just because they major in it and teach it...

are YOU the fascist/traitor in this here thread or what? Didn't Jim Jones offer his cult a logical way of reasoning and understanding?

Some people just don't want to see things through clear vision...maybe if one would take ones' head out of the dictionary and realize that there could possibly be a real world that exsist beyond the thesarus one would then realize that what one says is bullshit... graemlins/rofl.gif and their vision is blurred by big overused words graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]it is possible that there may be more than one approach and that smart people with integrity can disagree, right? </font>[/QUOTE]Ah - don't be too intelligent, Mark. It might be seditious.

Ashaki - don't blame my logic and unorthodoxed views if, after two degrees and all your glorious black experience, the nigger in you still lives. </font>[/QUOTE]maybe a little nigger is what you need... </font>[/QUOTE]And, if that is truly the case, you are there to infect me with some, correct?

Gotta disconnect from that hive-mind honey. You're not helping your people by being a sheep.

[ May 16, 2003, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:

Not much was REAL about it. [/QB]What exactly do you want? What is your definition of real? Be specific and if you can't be then step down off the box....

[Dr. Freud]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Freud:
Leslie:

Understood... but I say descrimination is descrimination, no matter which way the arrow is pointed. There's nothing about the word "descrimination" that implies only whites can be guilty of it, so why create another term for it when whites are the victims of it?

-Peace What mhd said... </font>[/QUOTE]Again, I say: So what? You used the term. Why did you choose to use that word? Could the word "Discrimination" (without the "reverse") have been used to convey the same message? </font>[/QUOTE]What the **** difference does it really make? The point is there are plenty of whites that attend Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU's). You trying to show me up over a ****ing term white folks thought up when Allen Bakke's ass couldn't get into med school back in the late 70's early 80's is a bit tired - go ask Bakke's lawyers. </font>[/QUOTE]Whoa. No one is trying to show anyone up here. I studied Social and Cross-Cultural Psychology in college, and the term is highly debated, so it interested me to see why people still use this word.

-Peace </font>[/QUOTE]Understood - forgive me anger, but that's how I read it as being. </font>[/QUOTE]All good... I apologize if I came accross as trying to show you up. That was certainly not my intention.

-Peace

[Koffy Brown]

Ashaki - don't blame my logic and unorthodoxed views if, after two degrees and all your glorious black experience, the nigger in you still lives. [/qb][/QUOTE]maybe a little nigger is what you need... [/qb][/QUOTE]And, if that is truly the case, you are there to infect me with some, correct?

Gotta disconnect from that hive-mind honey. [/QB][/QUOTE]

You don't want none don't front...but I tell you what...if and when some shit go down...it's nigga's like me who'll handle business...Bold...let it go...we don't see ---------&gt;&lt;-------- and that's quite all right...I would go out on a limb and say that the MAJORITY of people on here don't agree with me...but it's cool...it's alright...these are my beliefs, this is my reality, this is my world, this is what I've chosen and I take full responsibilty for it...DHP is used from 9-5.. I waste their time not mine, my time is far too valuable to waste...mkay...I believe in what I do, I'm real in how I live....so this doesn't have to be a popularity contest for me...understand...You can't change me...overstand... you can offer "your"opinions, beliefs, and truth, but you're not very effective in doing that...you've never made a solid point, you just wait in the cut for someone to say something and then your all over it with your dictionary words, when you are challenged, you can't handle it, you call it attacking and your prepared to counter attack...let it go....

[RX]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:

But what is your standard for Blacks - should every five square miles of "black community" have a Woodson Library? Should they put one in every district in the US?
no...i'm sorry...that's asking too much...let the lil' poor negroid children travel for miles on public transportation and then travel back and get home after dark and after dinner...

making the libraries that exist in every five square miles of "black community" into quality libraries is impossible - only reserved for evanston, oak park, beverly and pill hill...

sorry...i'll stay in my place...mark had stepped out and i thought i could hang for a while... graemlins/rofl.gif

[Koffy Brown]

Gotta disconnect from that hive-mind honey. You're not helping your people by being a sheep. [/QB][/QUOTE]


A sheep!! You are the sheep in wolves clothing here...acting like your so intelligent and you've got all the answers....I am a leader not a follower and that is obvious...I've done and I do with intent to continue to do more for "my" people than your little peony mind could ever imagine...YOU NEED TO GET SOME UNDERSTANDING..you are an egotiscal self destructive maniac....and I hope to Gawd that you aren't a Black Man...and if you are, you're part of the reason why we're consistantly taking two steps back...

and if you aren't...then that explains alot...

"add reply"

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:

Not much was REAL about it. What exactly do you want? What is your definition of real? Be specific and if you can't be then step down off the box.... [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Ah - I get it. This is where I'm supposed to be foolish enough to enter into an arguement that has no logic. Sorry. I'll sidestep that one.

[TAD]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Black History month in my school was tantamount to black propaganda. We got myths and heroic tales of triumph with wonderfully artistic portraiture and simplistic facts about these saints of the negro experience.i would be curious to hear an example of some of these myths. </font>[/QUOTE]BOLD SOUL can you you please give me some examples of the Black propaganda of which you speak of, "the myths and heroic tales of triumph with wonderfully artistic portraiture and simplistic facts about these saints of the negro experience." </font>[/QUOTE]Well, I don't quite have any of my schoolwork from 25 years ago on me, Cosmic. Sorry about that.
:rolleyes:

Black history in my schools (the first magnet school class in Chicago, mind you - so there shouldn't be any excuse) was on some 'ol simplistic "feel good" shit.

Not much was REAL about it. </font>[/QUOTE]all right, i appreciate your honesty but why use an example about something you don't even remember? that's not using logic.

does any one else recall black propaganda being taught as "feel good" black history? with some examples.

[Bold Soul]

Don't worry everyone. I'll take my seditiousness and go about my day.

I'll be very careful that I don't do anything against the "COMMUNITY". I'll make certain I don't shame "US" or help "THEM" keep "US" down. I'll be a good "BLACKMAN".

I wear a size 11 - if anyone is ordering JACKBOOTS.

Peace, and, in the spirit of Madame CJ Walker, hairgrease.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Black History month in my school was tantamount to black propaganda. We got myths and heroic tales of triumph with wonderfully artistic portraiture and simplistic facts about these saints of the negro experience.i would be curious to hear an example of some of these myths. </font>[/QUOTE]BOLD SOUL can you you please give me some examples of the Black propaganda of which you speak of, "the myths and heroic tales of triumph with wonderfully artistic portraiture and simplistic facts about these saints of the negro experience." </font>[/QUOTE]Well, I don't quite have any of my schoolwork from 25 years ago on me, Cosmic. Sorry about that.
:rolleyes:

Black history in my schools (the first magnet school class in Chicago, mind you - so there shouldn't be any excuse) was on some 'ol simplistic "feel good" shit.

Not much was REAL about it. </font>[/QUOTE]all right, i appreciate your honesty but why use an example about something you don't even remember? that's not using logic.

does any one else recall black propaganda being taught as "feel good" black history? with some examples. </font>[/QUOTE](No intention to disrespect or sidestep, Cosmic. I've gotta bounce. I'll think about this one and post when I get back.)

[Koffy Brown]

does any one else recall black propaganda being taught as "feel good" black history? with some examples.


they continue to do it...every month of February it's the same old Black Faces...Harriet Tubman, Fredrick Douglas, Martin Luther King...etc...African/African American History is soooooo much more, not saying that these icons aren't important to history, but so was Marcus Garvey, Nat Turner, Black Panthers, Slavery, Pre-colonialism, post-colonialism..etc....

[RX]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
all right, i appreciate your honesty but why use an example about something you don't even remember? that's not using logic.

does any one else recall black propaganda being taught as "feel good" black history? with some examples. yep...and i went to a magnet school in chicago ( i guess mine was better that your, bold soul, 'cause i remember graemlins/tongueout.gif )...anyhoo, the only ones we were taught about were dubois, carver, king, booker t and tubman - not even dusable (the brother who founded chicago)...i came out with very lofty ideas about who these brothers and sista were...we were taught that they did great things, but not specifics, such as how dubois and booker t were at odds, or how far tubman actually went and under what conditions...

one thing struck me as very hurtful in my education, however...not in my magnet school, but in high school - hearing about how terrible the panthers were and how thuggish they were and knowing in my heart and actually having proof of the good they did and not having the power to change the curriculum...

[The Donger]

Unfortunately this convo has gone to shit with the egos, name calling, etc...

I am out.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
does any one else recall black propaganda being taught as "feel good" black history? with some examples.


they continue to do it...every month of February it's the same old Black Faces...Harriet Tubman, Fredrick Douglas, Martin Luther King...etc...African/African American History is soooooo much more, not saying that these icons aren't important to history, but so was Marcus Garvey, Nat Turner, Black Panthers, Slavery, Pre-colonialism, post-colonialism..etc.... African complicity and collusion in the slave trade would have been a good point. Also, how socio-economic pressure from England, France and the North freed the slaves, not the Christian ethic, not Abe Lincoln.

Frederick Douglas' political leanings and views on women would have been a strong contrasting view.

Christianity as the key reinforcement of slave conditioning as well.

Political machination by the Negro community to capitalize on Emmit Till's death - that would have shown a HUMAN side.

I guess I should have spoken in terms of what I DIDN'T LEARN.

I learned about JOHN HENRY though. That was good.

Okay - now I've gotta go.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
all right, i appreciate your honesty but why use an example about something you don't even remember? that's not using logic.

does any one else recall black propaganda being taught as "feel good" black history? with some examples. yep...and i went to a magnet school in chicago ( i guess mine was better that your, bold soul, 'cause i remember graemlins/tongueout.gif )...anyhoo, the only ones we were taught about were dubois, carver, king, booker t and tubman - not even dusable (the brother who founded chicago)...i came out with very lofty ideas about who these brothers and sista were...we were taught that they did great things, but not specifics, such as how dubois and booker t were at odds, or how far tubman actually went and under what conditions...

one thing struck me as very hurtful in my education, however...not in my magnet school, but in high school - hearing about how terrible the panthers were and how thuggish they were and knowing in my heart and actually having proof of the good they did and not having the power to change the curriculum... </font>[/QUOTE]This is what I was moving toward. I never saw free exchange of points of view. Free association - the ability to discern value. All I was taught was TRUTH, and the "truth" changed from year to year.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
all right, i appreciate your honesty but why use an example about something you don't even remember? that's not using logic.

does any one else recall black propaganda being taught as "feel good" black history? with some examples. yep...and i went to a magnet school in chicago ( i guess mine was better that your, bold soul, 'cause i remember graemlins/tongueout.gif )...anyhoo, the only ones we were taught about were dubois, carver, king, booker t and tubman - not even dusable (the brother who founded chicago)...i came out with very lofty ideas about who these brothers and sista were...we were taught that they did great things, but not specifics, such as how dubois and booker t were at odds, or how far tubman actually went and under what conditions...

one thing struck me as very hurtful in my education, however...not in my magnet school, but in high school - hearing about how terrible the panthers were and how thuggish they were and knowing in my heart and actually having proof of the good they did and not having the power to change the curriculum... </font>[/QUOTE]This is what I was moving toward. I never saw free exchange of points of view. Free association - the ability to discern value. All I was taught was TRUTH, and the "truth" changed from year to year. </font>[/QUOTE]And this "truth" was used to reinforce a notion of "blackness".

[Monny JcIntosh]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
Unfortunately this convo has gone to shit with the egos, name calling, etc...
I agree, I was enjoying this thread, lots of good discussion.

[mhd]

at the risk of really starting some shit, do you realize that we just agreed on something? the woeful inadequacy of black history and black history month. i knew we could do it.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by mhd:
at the risk of really starting some shit, do you realize that we just agreed on something? the woeful inadequacy of black history and black history month. i knew we could do it. shit starter graemlins/rofl.gif

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:

Not much was REAL about it. What exactly do you want? What is your definition of real? Be specific and if you can't be then step down off the box.... </font>[/QUOTE]Ah - I get it. This is where I'm supposed to be foolish enough to enter into an arguement that has no logic. Sorry. I'll sidestep that one. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Forget it...I forgot you are way to intelligent to answer 2 simple quesitons. The correct answer by the way would have been "I don't know" or "I'm still working on understanding myself" But I forgot you are some other plane of conciousness that the rest of us are suppossed to catch up to you on because in your mind your way of thinking and being sets the standard. Funny how you chose now as the time to sidestep. But I'll leave that for you to figure out as to why you chose to address some things and not others and why you can't deal with folks who do not see things the same way you do - arrogance stinks like dog shit too ya know.

[Moksha]

A few important facts:

1. Kids don't learn enough black history, white history, local history, American history, world history, or any other kind of history. Anybody of ANY race willing to teach ANY of these "correctly" (with enthusiasm and "truth) in this age should be commended.

2. Donger wrote "some" into the post that sent Ricky X off. I think that it is indisputeable that "some" white people care more about black history than "some" black people. "Some" American Egyptologists care more about Egyptian history than "some" Egyptians. I'm not sure if it's that important a fact (since you can use "some" to say almost anything), but it is impossible to argue with.

3. There are shitty libraries everywhere, in all kinds of different neighborhoods. Yet, there is infinite, limitless information to be learned in even the shittiest library. And, there are almost always ways for the truly inquisitive to find out more, about anything.

[jimmymack-2000]

Ole Mistah Charlie just loves him these kindsa threads... graemlins/cool_shades.gif

[mhd]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
Ole Mistah Charlie just loves him these kindsa threads... graemlins/cool_shades.gif that's a very revealing statement

[RX]

Originally posted by Orion:
2. Donger wrote "some" into the post that sent Ricky X off. sweetheart, when you tell me how you and donger can measure how much i "care" about my history based on my education and the fact that i teach, and how much i "don't care" about my history based on the fact that i don't teach and it be true, i'll kiss donger's ass...

[The Donger]

Apparently the schools in Miss Rickey X's town are just as bad as the libraries.

Get back to us when you learn the definition of the word "some".

Then you can pucker up and kiss my ass. Remind me not to wash it for a week.

[ May 16, 2003, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Ghost Of Donger ]

[Moksha]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Orion:
2. Donger wrote "some" into the post that sent Ricky X off. sweetheart, when you tell me how you and donger can measure how much i "care" about my history based on my education and the fact that i teach, and how much i "don't care" about my history based on the fact that i don't teach and it be true, i'll kiss donger's ass... </font>[/QUOTE]Hey...easy. I didn't say anything about how much you care about history. I'm not arguing about any of that. I'm just saying that Donger's statement of: "Keep in mind there are white people who care more about black history than some black people" is undeniably correct. I can go and find examples of this phenomenon.

You replied with: “so DON'T say there are white people who care more about black history than black folk and leave it at that...there's a very good reason why you may have that illusion - just because we don't know it doesn't mean we don't care...if we knew and were exposed to all the excellence, triumphs and achievements our people made, you think we WOULDN'T care more than others?”

I think that it is impossible for you to speak for all black people (“we”), and there are sure to be "some" black people out there that couldn’t care less… Just as there are some Asian people that don’t care about Asian history, and house music lovers who don’t care about house’s history, or some Americans that don’t care about American history (which could be said for the vast majority of them). I think that "some" could even be replaced with "a lot" or "most" in all of the above statements.

However, please re-read my post. I am not stating that this fact is at all important. It many ways, it seems like a pretty insignificant thing for Donger to bring up.

Finally—I hope you NEVER have to kiss Donger’s ass. I’m sure in would be a terribly unpleasant experience! ;)

[RX]

orion, i'd never have to kiss his ass because he'll never be right in what he's stated about black folk "caring" about history, get it?

so don't worry 'bout lil' ol' me... graemlins/rofl.gif

anyhoo, if said supposed ass kissee's statements were that general and that meaningless, they truly meant nothing and had no weight...makes sense...

okay...i'll seek a better thread to dig in, like "the matrix"...yeah...

[The Donger]

100% relevent.

The thread is asking if a white person is capable of teaching black history on a deeper level.

If some white people care that much about black history even more so than some blacks do, they would be capable of teaching it "properly" if they were that passionate about it.

[ May 16, 2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Ghost Of Donger ]

[mhd]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
100% relevent you ass kissing sluts.

The thread is asking if a white person is capable of teaching black history on a deeper level.

If some white people care that much about black history even more so than some blacks do, they would be capable of teaching it "properly" if they were that passionate about it.

Now pucker up. all jokes aside, we have tried to communicate as adults but you won't let that happen. you should be very careful how you address people. there are limits

[RX]

i knew it would come out eventually...

[The Donger]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
100% relevent you ass kissing sluts.

The thread is asking if a white person is capable of teaching black history on a deeper level.

If some white people care that much about black history even more so than some blacks do, they would be capable of teaching it "properly" if they were that passionate about it.

Now pucker up. all jokes aside, we have tried to communicate as adults but you won't let that happen. you should be very careful how you address people. there are limits </font>[/QUOTE]They offered up the ass kissing, obviously there is some humor going on, unless Miss Rickey X was dead serious about kissing my ass. I was just returning the humor.

You may need a break, you seem to have a lot of trouble comprehending my posts today...

[mhd]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
100% relevent you ass kissing sluts.

The thread is asking if a white person is capable of teaching black history on a deeper level.

If some white people care that much about black history even more so than some blacks do, they would be capable of teaching it "properly" if they were that passionate about it.

Now pucker up. all jokes aside, we have tried to communicate as adults but you won't let that happen. you should be very careful how you address people. there are limits </font>[/QUOTE]They offered up the ass kissing, obviously there is some humor going on, unless Miss Rickey X was dead serious about kissing my ass. I was just returning the humor.

You may need a break, you seem to have a lot of trouble comprehending my posts today... </font>[/QUOTE]get some class or a GED

[The Donger]

Originally posted by mhd:
get some class or a GED So you can live vicariously through me?

The man with the social skills... right.

[The Donger]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
i knew it would come out eventually... I just edited my post.

You don't like jokes, then don't joke with me.

Now go and edit your post.

[RX]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
i knew it would come out eventually... I just edited my post.

You don't like jokes, then don't joke with me.

Now go and edit your post. </font>[/QUOTE]that's the different between you and me, dawg...you're funny... graemlins/rofl.gif and almost got banned, by the way... graemlins/rofl.gif

[ May 16, 2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Ms Rickey X ]

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
When Linda teaches Art History she teaches "all" history. If you were in her class you would realize whats not being taught.

-G G - what grade does she teach? and is the curriculum dictated to her, does she have much flexibility? </font>[/QUOTE]She teaches Middle School (6-8th). There is a minimum required curriculum (inadequate) but she is allowed to augment that with additional coursework. She has a lot of flexibility.

-G

[Bill Blake]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:

Not much was REAL about it. What exactly do you want? What is your definition of real? Be specific and if you can't be then step down off the box.... [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]I think he means Black history type hype like the counter part to 'George Washington chopped down the cherry tree' shit.

[The Donger]

Those are some lucky kids.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
When Linda teaches Art History she teaches "all" history. If you were in her class you would realize whats not being taught.

-G G - what grade does she teach? and is the curriculum dictated to her, does she have much flexibility? </font>[/QUOTE]She teaches Middle School (6-8th). There is a minimum required curriculum (inadequate) but she is allowed to augment that with additional coursework. She has a lot of flexibility.

-G </font>[/QUOTE]Props to Linda, what type of school.
Man, i did not get any decent art history until college and then fell in love with it. Great on the flexibility, my teachers from that period had a lot of influence on me, the type that you have spoken about before.

You and Linda will get a kick out of this. At the Sanctuary that just re-opened and GU is spinning at tomorrow, it is also an Art Gallery. Dorian has a resident painter, Jeff, who painted this beautiful canvass throughout the night of the opening party. it was awesome. Downstairs is the dancefloor and upstairs is the gallery and couches and bar. Very sweet set up.

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
When Linda teaches Art History she teaches "all" history. If you were in her class you would realize whats not being taught.

-G G - what grade does she teach? and is the curriculum dictated to her, does she have much flexibility? </font>[/QUOTE]She teaches Middle School (6-8th). There is a minimum required curriculum (inadequate) but she is allowed to augment that with additional coursework. She has a lot of flexibility.

-G </font>[/QUOTE]Props to Linda, what type of school.
Man, i did not get any decent art history until college and then fell in love with it. Great on the flexibility, my teachers from that period had a lot of influence on me, the type that you have spoken about before.

You and Linda will get a kick out of this. At the Sanctuary that just re-opened and GU is spinning at tomorrow, it is also an Art Gallery. Dorian has a resident painter, Jeff, who painted this beautiful canvass throughout the night of the opening party. it was awesome. Downstairs is the dancefloor and upstairs is the gallery and couches and bar. Very sweet set up. </font>[/QUOTE]Its a public middle school. She teaches Art History in addition to her normal Art curriculum (painting, drawing, pottery). She loves the teaching part of the job its just the other battles that go on in a school having to adjust to an increasing number of black and asian students that gets to her after a while. Some things she just can't sit by and watch other teachers and the principle get away with. Taking up the battle has almost gotten her fired a couple of times by a vindictive principle and administrators). After one of these battles she got surplused 50% by a principle on the grounds that enrollement had declined and they didn't need her fulltime. The teachers union investigated and found out that not only did enrollment not go down it had gone up during that period. The demanded that she be made whole immediately. Thank god for the teachers union hail.gif :D .

Anyway watching a artist paint a mural live at a party thru out the night sounds cool. Linda and I would have definitely enjoyed that.

-G

[ May 16, 2003, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Gman ]

[mhd]

Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
When Linda teaches Art History she teaches "all" history. If you were in her class you would realize whats not being taught.

-G G - what grade does she teach? and is the curriculum dictated to her, does she have much flexibility? </font>[/QUOTE]She teaches Middle School (6-8th). There is a minimum required curriculum (inadequate) but she is allowed to augment that with additional coursework. She has a lot of flexibility.

-G </font>[/QUOTE]Props to Linda, what type of school.
Man, i did not get any decent art history until college and then fell in love with it. Great on the flexibility, my teachers from that period had a lot of influence on me, the type that you have spoken about before.

You and Linda will get a kick out of this. At the Sanctuary that just re-opened and GU is spinning at tomorrow, it is also an Art Gallery. Dorian has a resident painter, Jeff, who painted this beautiful canvass throughout the night of the opening party. it was awesome. Downstairs is the dancefloor and upstairs is the gallery and couches and bar. Very sweet set up. </font>[/QUOTE]Its a public middle school. She teaches Art History in addition to her normal Art curriculum (painting, drawing, pottery). She loves the teaching part of the job its just the other battles that go on in a school having to adjust to an increasing number of black and asian students that gets to her after a while. Some things she just can't sit by and watch other teachers and the principle get away with. Taking up the battle has almost gotten her fired a couple of times by a vindictive principle and administrators). After one of these battles she got surplused 50% by a principle on the grounds that enrollement had declined and they didn't need her fulltime. The teachers union investigated and found out that not only did enrollment not go down it had gone up during that period. The demanded that she be made whole immediately. Thank god for the teachers union hail.gif :D .

Anyway watching a artist paint a mural live at a party thru out the night sounds cool. Linda and I would have definitely enjoyed that.

-G </font>[/QUOTE]there is a huge battle going on across the country to keep music and art education as part of the curriculum. they are constantly trying to cut them from the public school budget, in spite of the positive impact music and art education can have on a kid. sometimes that is the only thing a kid can connect with in school.

a lot of times the parents will support the art and music teachers as a buffer against the administration, but that's only if the parents are involved and are aware of what is going on.

I'm glad Linda weathered the storm. Tell her to keep doing her thing for those kids. big up to the teacher's union - and their wonderful lawyers!

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:

Not much was REAL about it. What exactly do you want? What is your definition of real? Be specific and if you can't be then step down off the box.... </font>[/QUOTE]Ah - I get it. This is where I'm supposed to be foolish enough to enter into an arguement that has no logic. Sorry. I'll sidestep that one. </font>[/QUOTE]Forget it...I forgot you are way to intelligent to answer 2 simple quesitons. The correct answer by the way would have been "I don't know" or "I'm still working on understanding myself" But I forgot you are some other plane of conciousness that the rest of us are suppossed to catch up to you on because in your mind your way of thinking and being sets the standard. Funny how you chose now as the time to sidestep. But I'll leave that for you to figure out as to why you chose to address some things and not others and why you can't deal with folks who do not see things the same way you do - arrogance stinks like dog shit too ya know. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]You know - the reason I "chose" to duck out wasn't because of your powerful questioning. It was because of a meeting that was prescheduled. My track record shows I'm always down for debate - as hard or soft as anyone wants to bring it. Ducking out isn't something I do.

Point 1 - REAL in the sense you and I asserted it in the convo is a superlative. Superlatives cannot be defined. If I were to attempt to define real for you, it would be a slippery slope definition. I would rather focus on reaching a conclusion with others.

Point 2 - I define real, in the case of my statement about real history, as obviously subjective but at least MULTIDIMENSIONAL. Black history, as it was taught to me and advocated by other blacks, was not multidimensional. There were heroes, villians and no gray areas. This is not in line with human dynamics.

Funny - I was taught about Greek mythology from the same people. Greek mythology is full of gray areas. Bring up how Martin Luther King's appointment to civil rights movement leadership was due to political machination by the Kennedy Administration and the black establishment that had money to gain or lose and you are vilified as a traitor. How dare you defame his legacy - and all that bullshit.

Point 3 - I see that black people to this day are uncomfortable with those who speak intelligently with authority. How often am I to hear about how "I am attempting to change someone's view, or that I'm arrogant, all knowing, something such as this. Anyone who actually knows me knows this isn't true. Some of us just don't **** around when it comes to debate, and I am one of those someones. Ya dig, bruthas and sistas?!

[ May 16, 2003, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

[Bold Soul]

I'm now off to see the Matrix Reloaded. Please don't accuse me of ducking out again.

graemlins/tongueout.gif

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by mhd:
.. and their wonderful lawyers! biggrinangel.gif

[dVine]

Originally posted by Ghost Of Donger:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
or maybe blacks just don't succesfully band together to make these changes.

Concur


So why haven't blacks been able to change the amount of black history taught in schools?

see above bold(ed) statement I would like to hear someone else's view/opinion. </font>[/QUOTE]Rather than some widespread national change, which takes years to bring about, people should lobby their local school boards and have meetings with local teachers so everyone can work together to bring about curriculum change.

And the schools need local teachers from the neighbourhood. I'm seeing friends going back to teachers college, they're realizing the importance of education's impact on young people. There's a thread about free masters of education programs, perhaps someone could repost the info here.

[dVine]

Originally posted by Hk:
(I love questions like this, ya ready....)

MYSELF, for not being smart enough, energetic enough, confident enought to believe, just believe that I can make a difference....

Next question.... Where do you want to see change being made?

[Hk]

that's not obvious my friend???

[ngeso]

thanks everybody for a truly insightful discussion. particular thanks to Donger for the heat and guts, and to Bold Soul for dispelling some fears of mine. ahead of your time in championing the attainable irrelevance of colour.

peace, everyone. ngeso.

[Leslie]

Bold Soul, ya do Glen Loury (sp) and Tom Sowell proud and let's just leave it at that.... :rolleyes:

[ May 19, 2003, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Leslie ]

[dVine]

Originally posted by Hk:
that's not obvious my friend??? What I see as being obvious would be the power structure being run by those with the most money, oppressing those with the least. That would mean, among other things, inequal eduction opportunities, job advancement and access to health care services.

It may seem like your plate is full with respect to things that need to be changed. I say pick one thing and start doing something about it. I'm personally concerned about how the media affects little girls, so I became a big sister. It's a small thing, and will only affect one person at a time, but its the most rewarding thing I've ever done, words cannot express.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Leslie:
Bold Soul, ya do Glen Loury (sp) and Tom Sowell proud and let's just leave it at that.... :rolleyes: I would rather accept that there are things that, at this point in time, polarize us. That would be a bit more constructive, don't you think?

Half-full or half-empty?

BTW - Anyone who has taken the time to get to know me would laugh aloud at your generality. Tom Sowell? That's reaching quite a bit. Get to know me before you vilifiy me - if you have the courage.

[ May 19, 2003, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
Bold Soul, ya do Glen Loury (sp) and Tom Sowell proud and let's just leave it at that.... :rolleyes: I would rather accept that there are things that, at this point in time, polarize us. That would be a bit more constructive, don't you think?

Half-full or half-empty?

BTW - Anyone who has taken the time to get to know me would laugh aloud at your generality. Tom Sowell? That's reaching quite a bit. Get to know me before you vilifiy me - if you have the courage. </font>[/QUOTE]Hmm...why would you take that as being "villified"? Did you find the comparison insulting??

BTW - Getting to know someone does not take courage it takes desire. But I'll be reading when the next "race" issue comes up, cause just like clockwork, I'm sure you'll be there....

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
Bold Soul, ya do Glen Loury (sp) and Tom Sowell proud and let's just leave it at that.... :rolleyes: I would rather accept that there are things that, at this point in time, polarize us. That would be a bit more constructive, don't you think?

Half-full or half-empty?

BTW - Anyone who has taken the time to get to know me would laugh aloud at your generality. Tom Sowell? That's reaching quite a bit. Get to know me before you vilifiy me - if you have the courage. </font>[/QUOTE]Hmm...why would you take that as being "villified"? Did you find the comparison insulting??

BTW - Getting to know someone does not take courage it takes desire. But I'll be reading when the next "race" issue comes up, cause just like clockwork, I'm sure you'll be there.... </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe not.

[2121]

why not, bring the race issues on.

[Hk]

I feel U Dvine.

The media is a heavy 1 to tackle, worthy though.
(that's another institution that sucks our self-esteem away).

Changing yourself is no joke, and I dont mean from the 'in-style-change is good' type of Mass perspective floating around nowadays.

[dVine]

Originally posted by Hk:
[QBMass perspective floating around nowadays. [/QB]there's a lot that needs changing, and I think that's the problem with any people-oriented movement. you got your environmental activists, political activists, child activists and the movement is so splintered, no one can agree on any single one issue.

[ May 19, 2003, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: dVine ]

[dVine]

sorry about the edits, spelling, grammar and a long hard day.

[ May 19, 2003, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: dVine ]

[Hk]

(not a problem, I do it ALL the time (besides I can read thru errors, no B-deal).

Dvine, keep this in mind, and I am telling myself this too, the diversity that we see is needed. We need many people to know about many things in order to create our own.... Electricians, plumbers, architects, mathematicians, engineers, all from the social sciences, political science, economists....etc.....

In every society it takes a group of people, not one, to tend to its development and maintenance....

Hope you're more energetic today.....

Thread related, yes whites can teach em......go right ahead....... smile.gif ....and thanks for teaching them.

[Martin Red]

Spanner.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39238000/jpg/_39238601_beck203.jpg

icon_rofl.gif

[socratez]

Yup, unfurtunately that is true. Even scientific reasserch done by white scientists confirm the negative effect of low expectations from black kids.


Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by daniel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hk:


Besides, its these same white teachers that suck the self-esteem out of our kids when they're young. oh my god, you're a fvcking moron. </font>[/QUOTE]Daniel watch the name calling. Note I have not read the above posts yet but Linda works in the Madison Public School system and there is a BIG issue with white teacher's low expectations of black kids affecting there performance. Kids will get away with murder if you let them. I'll see if I can dig up a few of the numerous articles that have been written here lately.

-G </font>[/QUOTE]