the future of DJing looks damn unimpressive, optically speaking. [Archive]

KragShot

11-20-2003, 09:56 AM

Man, there used to be a certain mysticism about being a DJ.

It takes skill to beatmatch with vinyl and that's the way everybody should learn (IMHO).

Once you can do it that way, doing it with CDs is a lot easier and then you can use the hi-tech bells and whistles.

But using i-pods?

That ain't being a DJ, that's being a programmer.

Machines that make it that easy and accurate, take the human element out of it.

As any DJ on the list will confirm, sometimes, the best mix you will make will come from a mistake or something unplanned. This removes that factor.

I have the AtomMix software on my desktop and I play with it, occasionally. However, I've only mixed with it one time at a set...never again. I couldn't truly feel what I was doing...it was too antiseptic.

This will never take.

KragShot

Red D

11-20-2003, 10:05 AM

Well, we're being bombarded with 'thee' technology every couple of months or so, and everytime the techies start defending this new evolution and everytime the vinyl heads like myself cry wolf, but in the end nothing really changes, evolution in dj'ing is a myth, it is and will remain selecting tunes and entertaining the crowd, and all these posh expensive gadgets have absolutely no impact whatsoever on that and are only out for your cash.
At the youth center where I work we've bought turntables last year, and the kids love mixing with vinyls next to all the other technology, so I say let the technology people have their little gadgets and toys, the essence of it will reamin the same.

RD

SHEIK YERBOUTI

11-20-2003, 10:08 AM

"I'm the operator with my pocket calculator."

"I am adding,
and subtracting.
I'm composing,
and controlling.

By pressing down this special key,
It plays a little melody."

Bold Soul

11-20-2003, 10:53 AM

If you muthafukas had your way, we'd all be rocking the ABACUS and STONE TABLET.

I'm a street walking cheetah with a heart full of napalm
I'm a runaway son of the nuclear A-bomb
I am a world's forgotten boy
the one who searches and destroys
Look out honey, 'cause I'm using technology
ain't got time to make no apology

[ November 20, 2003, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Danny Gardner ]

Friday

11-20-2003, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by KragShot:

That ain't being a DJ, that's being a programmer.

Machines that make it that easy and accurate, take the human element out of it. Gotta agree here! How does one even interact with their crowd with those things? graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

TAD

11-20-2003, 11:53 AM

i did a mix yesterday in cubase with 2 tables, (one with no pitch, a thorens td166)) a cd player & no mixer. i used my sound card (edirol ua 1000) headphone jack to cue. created a split cue by lowering one side of each source (this balance control did not affect the recording output) & used the cubase mixer to blend. 3 audio tracks were required to do this.

the only drawback? i couldn't hear the mix. i only had my vu's to judge the levels but this made for extremely smooth transitions.

it was fun to do because it was a break from tradition, innovative & a real challenge without totally eliminating the essential old school components.

upliftdisco365

11-20-2003, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by toomuchtv:
By pressing down this special key,
It plays a little melody." Used to get so amped off of this cut. DAMN!! I'm gonna play this as SOON as I get home.

mdpm99

11-20-2003, 12:27 PM

Could be just a matter of time b-4 they find ways to eliminate the DJ like the DJ has helped eliminate the musicians.

Karma

d

Sharp Eye Washington

11-20-2003, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
Could be just a matter of time b-4 they find ways to eliminate the DJ like the DJ has helped eliminate the musicians.

Karma

d So true.

O'love

11-20-2003, 01:00 PM

you people are afraid the "myth" around the DJ will dissapear..... but you forget it's all about the music, not the medium! if i can choose between bringing a crate of vinyl and play a 2 hour set with not much to choose musically-wise, or a 6 hour set with shitloads of good music on CD or finalscratch or iPod or whatever non-vinyl medium, so i can pick and play any kind of music that fits the moment and the floor, i know what i would choose..it's the same with all other technologies..you can use it in 2 ways, good or bad....i didn't see anyone complain when Kerri was rocking the house last week using FS and a korg triton (duh! he was using a sample based syth, why didn't he bring a real hammond B3, this is optically not interesting etc.)

"they used to laugh at me
but i saw the future"

Olaf

[ November 20, 2003, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: O'love ]

SHEIK YERBOUTI

11-20-2003, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Phil Bernard:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
Could be just a matter of time b-4 they find ways to eliminate the DJ like the DJ has helped eliminate the musicians.

Karma

d So true. [/QUOTE]OUCH!!!

DLow

11-20-2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Red D:
Well, we're being bombarded with 'thee' technology every couple of months or so, and everytime the techies start defending this new evolution and everytime the vinyl heads like myself cry wolf, but in the end nothing really changes, evolution in dj'ing is a myth, it is and will remain selecting tunes and entertaining the crowd, and all these posh expensive gadgets have absolutely no impact whatsoever on that and are only out for your cash.
At the youth center where I work we've bought turntables last year, and the kids love mixing with vinyls next to all the other technology, so I say let the technology people have their little gadgets and toys, the essence of it will reamin the same.

RD Nailed it!!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

DLow

11-20-2003, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
Could be just a matter of time b-4 they find ways to eliminate the DJ like the DJ has helped eliminate the musicians.

Karma

d Greetings David,

OUCH!!! But that's the truth...what goes around comes around.

Bold Soul

11-20-2003, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
Could be just a matter of time b-4 they find ways to eliminate the DJ like the DJ has helped eliminate the musicians.

Karma

d Okay, Mancuso! That's it! We're tired of all that WISDOM! We're sick of REALITY! To the PRINCIPLE'S OFFICE!

(Note the spelling of "principle" for all of you who'll miss the joke).

And

11-20-2003, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by toomuchtv:
"I'm the operator with my pocket calculator."

"I am adding,
and subtracting.
I'm composing,
and controlling.

By pressing down this special key,
It plays a little melody." icon_rofl.gif Fresh! Kraftwerk ...
I was thinking exactly that song after I read Ngeso's post.

MikeBee

11-20-2003, 01:59 PM

I love the craft of playing and mixing vinyl. Seems to me though that if you are a busy DJ working different venues, it would be easier to travel lighter intstead of carrying a vanload of Vinyl. I've played around with blending the CD decks too. And BTW those Ipods hold 100's of hrs of music. Hows that for quick, easy selection from tons of possibilities. And question: Is digital music better than Vinyl?

jpsf

11-20-2003, 02:05 PM

it's only a matter of time before that technology gets old and becomes retro.

as long as there is a booth, a disco ball, and some smoke there will be djs. and they'll be using what gets the job done.

i've been anti mp3 for a while 'cause i spend alot of money on vinyl (like most people here). but last week i played a gig with my friend and all they wanted was top 40 rap (i won't call it hip-hop) and he just played it off cd. didn't want to spend the money on a bunch of 12"es.

erd

11-20-2003, 02:12 PM

graemlins/puke.gif

Peace.

Gerd

O'love

11-20-2003, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by jpsf:
i've been anti mp3 for a while 'cause i spend alot of money on vinyl (like most people here). but last week i played a gig with my friend and all they wanted was top 40 rap (i won't call it hip-hop) and he just played it off cd. didn't want to spend the money on a bunch of 12"es. since when are CD's for free??

Olaf

Bold Soul

11-20-2003, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by O'love:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jpsf:
i've been anti mp3 for a while 'cause i spend alot of money on vinyl (like most people here). but last week i played a gig with my friend and all they wanted was top 40 rap (i won't call it hip-hop) and he just played it off cd. didn't want to spend the money on a bunch of 12"es. since when are CD's for free??

Olaf [/QUOTE]http://deephousepage.com/smilies/shhh.gif Remember...we don't discuss this on the DHP.

ngeso

11-20-2003, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
Could be just a matter of time b-4 they find ways to eliminate the DJ like the DJ has helped eliminate the musicians.

Karma

d Okay, Mancuso! That's it! We're tired of all that WISDOM! We're sick of REALITY! To the PRINCIPLE'S OFFICE!

(Note the spelling of "principle" for all of you who'll miss the joke). [/QUOTE]yeeeaaaaaah! about time, right now! Bold, spreading some truth up in here :D ! everybody, everybody in the whole wide world, knows, knows!, that Dave is guilty (Ike Hayes in the background, 'guilty!', he stands accused!) of resisting progress and championing the oldest outdated dinosaur technology ever devised by mankind! analogue tube relay soldered non-mixing, non-pitching-non-beatmatching detrimental resistance to p-r-o-g-r-e-s-s madness! graemlins/bolt.gif ! let's, let's use force on David and all chip in and buy him iPods for christmas, and convince him, and turn him around ! whaddayasay, peeps? who's with me on this? huh? graemlins/bolt.gif graemlins/bolt.gif graemlins/bolt.gif

jus' kidding, people. lotsa love to Mr. Mancuso and to Danny and to all the DJs - whatever tech they use to spread the music - and everybody in the DHP-house. peace![...guilty! i stand accused...]
hail.gif graemlins/bolt.gif

daniel

11-20-2003, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by gf:
How does one even interact with their crowd with those things? graemlins/jpshakehead.gif do turntables interact with a crowd?

Bold Soul

11-20-2003, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by daniel:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gf:
How does one even interact with their crowd with those things? graemlins/jpshakehead.gif do turntables interact with a crowd? [/QUOTE]It depends...how many people can a bedroom DJ get in his room?

Jamie 3:26

11-20-2003, 02:54 PM

I would use that kind of set-up for a corporate gig or a reception.easy.it's all about portability these days.

Think about it...what if we still had to carry those big ass brick cell phones??

Sometimes,you have to adjust to what makes things easier.I have seen nites here in chi where they have ipod nites.They play tunes off of them.Lounge setting,saves space.

This could also eliminate dj's who gig,so there's a case of a no-win situation.I say adjust and adapt or wither away in the wind.The choice is yours... ;)

the crackhouse

11-20-2003, 03:05 PM

You don't like vanilla, you prefer chocolate ?
we have WHATEVER YOUR "LIVING-IN-THE-PAST-BRAINS" WANTS (http://www.finalscratch.com/fs4/load.asp?db=What_is_FS&sub=start)

GROOVE VICTIM

11-20-2003, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
Could be just a matter of time b-4 they find ways to eliminate the DJ like the DJ has helped eliminate the musicians.

Karma

d I owe you a six pack for such a profound statement.

PREACH!!!!!

graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/beerchug.gif

SHEIK YERBOUTI

11-20-2003, 03:18 PM

http://www.boldsoul.com/images/dhpleader.jpg

Bah! I simply broadcast my musical thoughts directly into your feeble minds!!!

jpsf

11-20-2003, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by O'love:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jpsf:
i've been anti mp3 for a while 'cause i spend alot of money on vinyl (like most people here). but last week i played a gig with my friend and all they wanted was top 40 rap (i won't call it hip-hop) and he just played it off cd. didn't want to spend the money on a bunch of 12"es. since when are CD's for free??

Olaf [/QUOTE]downloading from itunes is way cheaper if you only want 1 song at a time. and there's no shipping.

DJ Rockin' Robin

11-21-2003, 03:25 AM

You are a DJ but you don't have any bulky gear. You don't need to drive to a gig, the subway/underground will do just fine. You also don't need an assistant to carry milk crates of heavy vinyl. Everything you need is in your pockets and the size of a cigarette pack. You only have 2 iPods, but together they hold enough music to play for several months straight, 24-7, without a single repeat. You are a mp3j .

LMAO!! @ mp3j <-- Pure gimmickry

O'love

11-21-2003, 03:39 AM

Originally posted by DJ Rockin' Robin:
You are a DJ but you don't have any bulky gear. You don't need to drive to a gig, the subway/underground will do just fine. You also don't need an assistant to carry milk crates of heavy vinyl. Everything you need is in your pockets and the size of a cigarette pack. You only have 2 iPods, but together they hold enough music to play for several months straight, 24-7, without a single repeat. You are a mp3j .

LMAO!! @ mp3j <-- Pure gimmickry what about a DJ using vinyl to play crap trance and waving his 12"es in the air while the crowd is standing still and cheering him like a god, or a DJ spreading the deephouse gospel using an iPod connected to a laptop with FinalScratch? do you care about the medium or the music?

jeeez..no wonder these discussions about "why is deephouse music dead" show up here every 5 minutes.... when people refuse to be open to new developments and only want to play their paradise garage classics from their precious 12" collection in front of their fellow paradise garage-classics-fan in a small basement with 5 people on the dancefloor and 15 people standing around on the walls, i can imagine these kind of statements......don't forget that when i see US DJ's playing over here in the Netherlands i see more and more finalscratch and/or CD's......

the bottomline: fine with me if you prefer vinyl as a medium to transfer the music, but that's something different than immediately pronouncing any alternative for vinyl as "BAD" or "EVIL 666 the number of the BEAST!!!" or "THE REASON THAT HOUSEMUSIC AND THE RECORDINDUSTRY IS BEING DESTROYED" and what have you more..... these things can co-exist without any problem...

i am currently investigating some new finalscratch like tools which will in a short while enable me to seamlessly blend my live music performances with DJ'ing..i personally think that's the future of DJ'ing, and i would love to bring shitloads of music in a portable package, so i can setup anywhere where there's 2 SL's or CD-players with pitch and jogwheels, or even nothing of the above, and play other people's music, loop and remix and edit on the fly, add new parts, samples, sounds etc......you simply cannot do this with good old vinyl, so you have to look into the alternatives....

Olaf

V-ROD

11-21-2003, 04:00 AM

I am very sad! :(

mdpm99

11-21-2003, 04:53 AM

Greetings:

Something being different is one thing, but is it better?

It is important that a sound system be technically correct .......and at the same time remain musical ... then there is progress.

What gets me is that most sound systems (whether it is in a poor acoustical environment and/or configured the wrong way) don't make the "musical" grade anyway. I think these issues seriously have to be addressed...as it won't matter what "new new new" stuff we kept coming up with. (Remember we are talking about the soul of music here).

As far back as 1938 technology already got us to a place where (double blind test/concert hall in Philadelphia) for the most part, one could not determine whether the sound source was the live orchestra at one moment or the live orchestra was being electronically reproduced at another moment.

I am most fascinated by the laser (stylus) Ttable that reads the analogue groove in 5 directions. (however still a pain in the ass to operate). I do see it being a step forward ...as with "some," and only with a few of the events that have taken place since 1938. (In the name of "so called" progress, Dolby certainly wasn't one of them!)

In any case.....I hope your day will be a musical one.

smile.gif

d

Ps. They are always trying to market these things
via the DJ and children. Something to think about.

[ November 21, 2003, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

Martin Red

11-21-2003, 05:25 AM

We are the Robots graemlins/rofl.gif

Clubs sets may start sounding like pre-mixed radio sets. I know most radio sets are completed at home - if theres a mistake rewind and come again. So we may have a point where someone is creating a 2 hour mix at home and then playing it in the club whilst looking busy moving dials etc, when then aren't actually doing anything, I mean, how could you tell, same as laptop users - how do you know they aren't just playing pre mixed music.

This sort of technology isn't changing anything for the better !

[ November 21, 2003, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

mdpm99

11-21-2003, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by Martin Red:
We are the Robots graemlins/rofl.gif

Clubs sets may start sounding like pre-mixed radio sets. I know most radio sets are completed at home - if theres a mistake rewind and come again. So we may have a point where someone is creating a 2 hour mix at home and then playing it in the club whilst looking busy moving dials etc, when then aren't actually doing anything, I mean, how could you tell, same as laptop users - how do you know they aren't just playing pre mixed music.

This sort of technology isn't changing anything for the better ! Good morning Martin Red:

This kind of behavior you are referring too actually happens more than we might expect. I also know of a situation or two where it was done with someone else's pre-recorded set.

When I was in Edinburg, Scotland (spel) @ the Queens (concert) Hall there was a chap that performed with a computer and with two musical instruments ..a bell and a toy horn (which was hardly used) and proceeded to compose music "live?" on stage. They had passed out those "new year things" that you pop open and paper flies out for the climatic moment of the concert to some of the people in the audience.

He looked really lonely (a one man orchestra if you will) and actually had a following in the country where he was from. Yes, I believe we have to push the envelope from time to time but then again there can be no light at the end of a tunnel without a tunnel.

d

[ November 21, 2003, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

O'love

11-21-2003, 05:45 AM

mdpm99

11-21-2003, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by O'love:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Martin Red:
We are the Robots graemlins/rofl.gif

Clubs sets may start sounding like pre-mixed radio sets. I know most radio sets are completed at home - if theres a mistake rewind and come again. So we may have a point where someone is creating a 2 hour mix at home and then playing it in the club whilst looking busy moving dials etc, when then aren't actually doing anything, I mean, how could you tell, same as laptop users - how do you know they aren't just playing pre mixed music.

This sort of technology isn't changing anything for the better ! how do you know the DJ spinning vinyl isn't just playing a mix CD and acting interesting with vinyl? if you want to be paranoid you can think of several examples ;) [/QUOTE]Greetings O'love:

In all fairness to Martin......I don't think "paranoia" is where he is coming from.

graemlins/cool_shades.gif

d

Martin Red

11-21-2003, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by O'love:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Martin Red:
We are the Robots graemlins/rofl.gif

Clubs sets may start sounding like pre-mixed radio sets. I know most radio sets are completed at home - if theres a mistake rewind and come again. So we may have a point where someone is creating a 2 hour mix at home and then playing it in the club whilst looking busy moving dials etc, when then aren't actually doing anything, I mean, how could you tell, same as laptop users - how do you know they aren't just playing pre mixed music.

This sort of technology isn't changing anything for the better ! how do you know the DJ spinning vinyl isn't just playing a mix CD and acting interesting with vinyl? if you want to be paranoid you can think of several examples ;) [/QUOTE]Greetings O'love:

In all fairness to Martin......I don't think "paranoia" is where he is coming from.

graemlins/cool_shades.gif

d [/QUOTE]graemlins/thumbsup.gif

It's a goverment plot.. ;)

O'Love, it is alot harder to fool people when the DJ is playin records than little device with little or no moving parts.

It's easier to see what goin on with Records

Not so easy with little devices, now is it.

DJ76

11-21-2003, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by O'love:
if i can choose between bringing a crate of vinyl and play a 2 hour set with not much to choose musically-wise, or a 6 hour set with shitloads of good music on CD or finalscratch or iPod or whatever non-vinyl medium, so i can pick and play any kind of music that fits the moment and the floor, i know what i would choose.. Hey Olaf, how's it going bro.

The ideal would be to have all your records in one place, but it's physically impossible. I remember a few years back Junior vazquez came to Montreal to play a 24-hour marathon set. Someone who worked there told me he came with something like 16 crates! graemlins/rofl.gif
That's nuts. Ideally I guess I'd have a big loft and invite people every week-end, this way I'd have all my records. Problem solved. But someone else on this thread has been doing it for 30-some years ;)

O'love

11-21-2003, 07:22 AM

of course i understand what y'all are saying about small devices etc. etc. but what if these tools are used in a good way? i am just a littlebit tired about the fact that everyone is instantly crying negative shit when something else than vinyl comes up..... people can use these things in a good way you know... when you want to fool people you can think of lots of ways to do it...you have to think positive here ;)
a friend of mine is a DJ who DJ's at least every weekend, and he takes a big crate of vinyl AND lots of CD's AND an iPod (with music he ripped from his vinyl and CD collection), so he has an amazing collection of music to choose from, and he always rocks the crowd..hell he cannot even beatmix, just knows what records to play in what order ;)

Olaf

C hristian

11-21-2003, 08:21 AM

but at the same time, you can't jump on the technology bandwagon. Gadgets for gadgets sake.
that's just the music industry trying to maintain those boat payments.

wouldn't happen quite so much if the male-female DJ population ratio was more even, or the other way around.

but then again....

quentin2bott

11-21-2003, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by O'love:
of course i understand what y'all are saying about small devices etc. etc. but what if these tools are used in a good way? i am just a littlebit tired about the fact that everyone is instantly crying negative shit when something else than vinyl comes up..... people can use these things in a good way you know... when you want to fool people you can think of lots of ways to do it...you have to think positive here ;)
a friend of mine is a DJ who DJ's at least every weekend, and he takes a big crate of vinyl AND lots of CD's AND an iPod (with music he ripped from his vinyl and CD collection), so he has an amazing collection of music to choose from, and he always rocks the crowd..hell he cannot even beatmix, just knows what records to play in what order ;)

Olaf That's the way forward ! No doubt.
Technology is there, it's for the better if you use it well.
graemlins/bolt.gif

Mark Andrus

11-21-2003, 05:46 PM

Since nobody else brought it up, it's worth a mention that there's no way to beat-mix with iPods....it would be much like DJ-ing with a pair of walkman-type CD players. Also the idea of using data-compressed files for DJ-ing indicates a disregard for sound quality that I find kind of depressing.

BigPoppa

11-21-2003, 07:48 PM

Could be that they are spinning the tunes on their iPods the same way we used to do it before pitch controls. It only means you REALLY have to know your music, not just slap something on and beat mix it in 5 seconds. This brings the focus back onto the programming of good music...something I wholeheartedly support!

Nege

11-21-2003, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by BigPoppa:
Could be that they are spinning the tunes on their iPods the same way we used to do it before pitch controls. It only means you REALLY have to know your music, not just slap something on and beat mix it in 5 seconds. This brings the focus back onto the programming of good music...something I wholeheartedly support! one thing wrong with the whole thing
the element of surpirise is gone and you won't be reading a crowd live,peoples moods change from night to night and you have to be able to program on the fly.

djmarbll

11-21-2003, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by MikeBee:
I love the craft of playing and mixing vinyl. Seems to me though that if you are a busy DJ working different venues, it would be easier to travel lighter intstead of carrying a vanload of Vinyl. I've played around with blending the CD decks too. And BTW those Ipods hold 100's of hrs of music. Hows that for quick, easy selection from tons of possibilities. And question: Is digital music better than Vinyl? Sonically, digital music has a much wider musical spectrum than analog (vinyl). However, analog has a warmth that digital keeps trying to emulate.

mdpm99

11-22-2003, 05:06 AM

There were 10,000 generations b-4 there were lap-tops.

d

O'love

11-22-2003, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Nege:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by BigPoppa:
Could be that they are spinning the tunes on their iPods the same way we used to do it before pitch controls. It only means you REALLY have to know your music, not just slap something on and beat mix it in 5 seconds. This brings the focus back onto the programming of good music...something I wholeheartedly support! one thing wrong with the whole thing
the element of surpirise is gone and you won't be reading a crowd live,peoples moods change from night to night and you have to be able to program on the fly. [/QUOTE]that's *exactly* what you can do when you can bring loads of music with you.... why do you think an ipod or a laptop or Cd's won't let you read a crowd and change you musical programming on the fly? it's exaclty the same, with the added bonus that you can find music a lot quicker and can select from a much bigger stack of music..

Olaf

O'love

11-22-2003, 07:44 AM

btw, on the more specific topic of iPods.... it's true you cannot change pitch with the current ipods....but you can use an iPod as a regular external portable harddisk, and connect it to software like NI Traktor or Final Scratch, and these programs *can* change the pitch of the music coming from the ipod, you can play the same track in 2 decks at the same time too, you can seamlesly loop certain parts, filter, EQ etc.....so you can get really creative and do re-edits/mixes on the fly if you like that..

Olaf