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mangina
11-20-2003, 10:52 AM
Decades Old Cabaret Law Faces Repeal
By MICHAEL COOPER

Published: November 20, 2003

The age-old battle between the New York of nightclubbing revelers and the New York of sleep-deprived neighbors entered a new phase yesterday when the Bloomberg administration said it would move to repeal a Jazz Age law that prohibits dancing in bars and nightclubs that do not hold special licenses.
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Declaring her intention of putting "the dance police" out of business, Gretchen Dykstra, the commissioner of the city's Department of Consumer Affairs, called for scrapping the old cabaret licenses. In their place, she said, the city should issue new "nightlife licenses" that would allow it to regulate the unwanted side effects of nightlife that people really care about_: noise, disorderly crowds and filthy sidewalks.

It is the administration's attempt to balance the needs of those who boast that New York is a city that never sleeps, and those who complain about it.

The cabaret law was Mayor Jimmy Walker's attempt at that balance in 1926. A city report at the time noted that the law's opponents said that "when strangers came to New York, they wanted to `run wild.' " The report concluded that "there has been altogether too much running wild in some of these nightclubs."

The law now requires bars and nightclubs to have a cabaret license, in addition to a liquor license, if their patrons are to dance legally. Businesses say the licenses are not easy to come by.

Over the years, the law has been enforced heavily at some points and ignored at others.

It became an issue during the Giuliani administration, when the city began using the law as a weapon in its broader crackdown on quality-of-life crimes.

Few tears will be shed for the cabaret law if the City Council agrees to repeal it.

Stories abound of nightclubs that have switched at a moment's notice from dance music to country or (sorry, Beatles fans) "Eleanor Rigby" to get their patrons to stop gyrating when inspectors arrived. Some disgruntled night owls said New York City was losing its groove and turning into a real-life version of the small town that banned dancing in "Footloose," the Kevin Bacon movie musical. Other revelers were moved to action: they held a "Million Mambo March" to protest the law.

Ms. Dykstra announced the proposal to change the law at the Knitting Factory, a downtown nightclub that does not have a cabaret license.

"They have to expend resources and energy telling people not to dance," she said. "They don't have any community problems, they don't have violations. But people can't shake their booties when they come to the Knitting Factory. And that strikes us as a little odd."

In overhauling the nightlife laws, the administration is hoping to win back the good will of owners and patrons of bars and clubs, some of whom are annoyed by the city's smoking ban. But while the proposed repeal of the dancing ban was greeted ecstatically by some bar owners, other industry representatives expressed concerns about the licensing system that would replace it.

The proposal would require clubs to get nightlife licenses if they meet three criteria: they want to be louder than 90 decibels on a continuing basis, they remain open after 1 a.m., and they have a capacity of more than 75 in residential areas or more than 200 in commercial areas.

Each bar or club would have to get a professional sound engineer to certify that it has enough soundproofing to comply with the city's noise code. (Ninety decibels, officials said, is louder than a dog barking and quieter than a plane taking off.) And the city would be allowed to revoke the license of any club that is repeatedly caught selling liquor to minors or without a liquor license, or operating without sprinklers, exit signs or emergency lights, or that is the scene of crimes including assault and rape.

Christopher Policano, a spokesman for the City Council, said the Council would study the proposed law when it received it.

Robert Bookman, a lawyer for the New York Nightlife Association, a trade organization, applauded the city for moving to repeal the cabaret law, but he said he would rather see the city step up its enforcement of existing laws. The association wants a law allowing off-duty police officers to provide security at bars and clubs.

To some, the change cannot happen fast enough. At Plant Bar, on Third Street between Avenues B and C, the owner, Dominique Keegan, thought he had a system in place to keep surreptitious dancers safe. The bouncer was supposed to flip a switch if it looked as if inspectors were on their way, turning on a blue light telling the disc jockey to turn off the dance music and put on "Kid A," a less-than-boppy Radiohead album.

But the plan fell through in March, when a disc jockey did not know the code and the bar was cited for "16 people dancing." After a second ticket, it was padlocked. To reopen, Mr. Keegan had to discourage dancing, do away with the disc jockeys and put in a jukebox. Since then, he said, business has been way off. Under the proposed law, he would not need a nightlife license because his bar holds fewer than 75 people.

The news that dancing could soon be legal, he said, is "music to my ears, if you'll forgive the pun."

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shannoneileen
11-20-2003, 11:10 AM
go 'head ny...
i never understood clubs with no dancing anyway...
i hope that they really repeal it...

Leslie
11-20-2003, 11:12 AM
As I posted elsewhere, cautiously optimistic...

mangina
11-20-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Shannon_Shawan:
go 'head ny...
i never understood clubs with no dancing anyway...
i hope that they really repeal it... More importantly, what will they replace it with and what is with this new Nightlife Licence?

Also who determines sound levels and where do they take their decibel readings from? Inside or outside?

mangina
11-20-2003, 11:16 AM
Also bear in mind that the official statements on the news make it seem that it's Bloomberg himself who is trying to change this law.

I think he's just trying to win back votes from all the smokers and clubbers that got mad over the smoking ban.

Not to mention there has been years of lobbying and groups who have worked really hard to have this law abolished. No mention of them in any of the mayor's statements.

I feel this is purely a political move to win votes.

TAC
11-20-2003, 11:49 AM
be very careful, what they replace it with may very well be the exact tool that they need to put the final nail in NY nightlife.

The new law seems like ti will enable them to ensnare even more after hour venues.

Leslie
11-20-2003, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by TAC:
be very careful, what they replace it with may very well be the exact tool that they need to put the final nail in NY nightlife.

The new law seems like ti will enable them to ensnare even more after hour venues. Yup, caution....
New York Nightlife Association = the devil within...

[ November 20, 2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Leslie ]

shannoneileen
11-20-2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by mangina:
Also bear in mind that the official statements on the news make it seem that it's Bloomberg himself who is trying to change this law.

I think he's just trying to win back votes from all the smokers and clubbers that got mad over the smoking ban.

Not to mention there has been years of lobbying and groups who have worked really hard to have this law abolished. No mention of them in any of the mayor's statements.

I feel this is purely a political move to win votes. I read about the smoking ban in the Villiage Voice... it's crazy, what's happening in the NY night club scene...

Did you see the, I believe now, defunct Bullsh@t program Penn and Teller hosted on Showtime?

The lobbying of this one former wallstreet guy... based on erroneous reports and inconclusive testing that warns of the dangers of second hand smoke... turned into a national campaign... and isn't even true...

Fletch
11-20-2003, 12:11 PM
As bad as these laws may be, there may be an unintended consequence (and I've said this before). What happens if the insurance (liability) rates go up at these venues, due to no laws? Guess who pays for the premiums at the door.

U
11-20-2003, 12:19 PM
Funny, I have been to Plant Bar when the music was switched before, and I never knew the reason why. I can not believe that a city the size of NY would have such a defunct law. That they are looking to replace it with something that will eventually do what the cabaret law could never really do, permanently shut down the night life, is just as looney. graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

Leslie
11-20-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Fletch:
As bad as these laws may be, there may be an unintended consequence (and I've said this before). What happens if the insurance (liability) rates go up at these venues, due to no laws? Guess who pays for the premiums at the door. Fletch no one in this or any other thread is advocating getting rid of laws governing night life all together - come on that's riduculous! However the current cabaret laws and the subsequent revival by Ruliani to enforce them to the letter has been adverse. Seriously how much are liability rates going to go up with better/clearer laws?

Fletch
11-20-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Fletch:
As bad as these laws may be, there may be an unintended consequence (and I've said this before). What happens if the insurance (liability) rates go up at these venues, due to no laws? Guess who pays for the premiums at the door. Fletch no one in this or any other thread is advocating getting rid of laws governing night life all together - come on that's riduculous! </font>[/QUOTE]I didn't mean that. I meant that any revision in the cabaret laws that repeals some provisions may give insurers the incentive to jack premiums up. It's like a car (I used this analogy before). I believe that points are lower if you keep your car in the garage as opposed to parking it outside.

But there's another issue, though. Rents. While it may be a start, repeal of the laws won't keep rents from rising through the rooftop. So you have two battles: 1) the caberet laws; and 2) the continuously rising real estate market in Manhattan (creepin' into outer boroughs, too!). Real estate costs/rents are another thread.

[ November 20, 2003, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Fletch ]

Leslie
11-20-2003, 01:42 PM
Rents/insurance liability fees certainly do not depend upon the state of cabaret laws to increase or decrease - yes it can be a factor but point blank its more about what the market will bear.
In addition, the formula insurance actuaries to set rates can manipulated in the same way polls can be manipulated - they can pass even more stringent laws that the current cabaret laws and insurers and landlords will still raise premiums and fees even if in actuality their liability is reduced because its what the market will bear.