My humor...The war [Archive] - Deep House Page Forums

mrbillpeewee

06-12-2003, 11:28 PM

Ppl keep saying Bill Clinton was the first black
President...hokey Whoo.
Bush! Bush!
Bush is the first Black president. The man is Keen on the needs of his ppl!
While demanding Respect!
That's like kicking ass and taking names.
That old Bill 'Fold a dollar' Clinton was just a Liwiiinsky
Blowpop.

You want to know why I jock Bush so hard?

Cause He's good. Good for my Thug Image!
Bush could take Ubekastand, A Pack of Irans.., a Africananland I don't care. Take it! Get it!
Let me be the first to say as Americans We need some thangs...... we want Thangs. Well, Bush is Damn Show handellling that!
Get while the getting is good!

I mean when you really think about it, only God has the last say in what is to become of the Human Race (yeah spelling correct).
No matter how powerful we think we are.
God has the last say!
Bush could catch a stroke reaching to push the button!

Exuse me for getting all emotional.....

But thats Why I can stand here today , and make these remarks because I am Proud to be American.

Plus this only confirms my deep spritfilled belief
That Tupuc did't DIE in Vain.
Thug Life Forever graemlins/acclaim.gif

[ June 13, 2003, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: mrbillpeewee ]

Mah'chew

06-13-2003, 12:47 AM

http://www.wobshite.co.uk/b3ta/conference.gif

Mah'chew

06-13-2003, 12:49 AM

http://www.modestypanel.com/b3ta_2/bushslap.gif

Mah'chew

06-13-2003, 01:01 AM

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~trin1012/b3ta/skynews2.jpg

Dolemite73

06-13-2003, 03:44 AM

Dolemite73

06-13-2003, 07:48 AM

Every time I read this garbage it pisses me off. And to think there are more folks out there that think just like you.....sad

mdpm99

06-13-2003, 12:03 PM

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." - Einstein

mrbillpeewee

06-13-2003, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Dolemite73:
Every time I read this garbage it pisses me off. And to think there are more folks out there that think just like you.....sad Maybe you missed the topic...Humor?
I overstand that war is a terrible thing however
you enlisted to do just what was called upon you to do ..Kill ppls. Don't blame me for your good work! Gas prices are down now Thanks! graemlins/cheering.gif

Dolemite73

06-13-2003, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by mrbillpeewee:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dolemite73:
Every time I read this garbage it pisses me off. And to think there are more folks out there that think just like you.....sad Maybe you missed the topic...Humor?
I overstand that war is a terrible thing however
you enlisted to do just what was called upon you to do ..Kill ppls. Don't blame me for your good work! Gas prices are down now Thanks! graemlins/cheering.gif [/QUOTE]Well the war I was in was not funny in the least fvcking bit. Fvck the gas prices and fvck those lowlife mutha****as that send us over there to die for it. And like I said, if you like to see people get killed, enlist. You want to conquer more oil producing nations for lower gas prices, then raise your right. Dont talk about it, be about it. Since you support it.

dVine

06-13-2003, 06:26 PM

love how you try to walk away from this blameless, dolemite. are you so hard up for a job that you had to go work for 'the man' doing his dirty work? do you not realise the consequences of your 'work'?

its the u.s. soldiers who terrorise the world. oh and excuse me for being 'insensitive' on the dhp. i've personally felt the far reaching effects of u.s. foreign policy, it seems there's no where those ****ers haven't been.

but that's just my story, right? we're still living with the consequences of what the u.s. did. at least the iraqi war is over now, you can return home to your everyday life and the comforts that make you happy. mcchickens are $1.79 today. i think 'blind date' is on tonight, back to back episodes no less. have a good night, dolemite.

Dolemite73

06-13-2003, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by dVine:
love how you try to walk away from this blameless, dolemite. are you so hard up for a job that you had to go work for 'the man' doing his dirty work? do you not realise the consequences of your 'work'?

its the u.s. soldiers who terrorise the world. oh and excuse me for being 'insensitive' on the dhp. i've personally felt the far reaching effects of u.s. foreign policy, it seems there's no where those ****ers haven't been.

but that's just my story, right? we're still living with the consequences of what the u.s. did. at least the iraqi war is over now, you can return home to your everyday life and the comforts that make you happy. mcchickens are $1.79 today. i think 'blind date' is on tonight, back to back episodes no less. have a good night, dolemite. You have got to be fvcking shitting me. How dare you accuse me of anything but honoring the commitment I made when I joined up. You think I WANTED to go over there and do that? HELL NO!!!!!! You think any of those kids that died over there wanted to be there? Fvck no. They were doing what they were told to do, by a bunch of bastards in Washington DC that dont give a fvck about you, me or anyone else. We were in a helpless, hopeless position over there. You got a fvucking nerve!!!

mhd

06-13-2003, 06:35 PM

Dolemite73

06-13-2003, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by Dolemite73:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dVine:
love how you try to walk away from this blameless, dolemite. are you so hard up for a job that you had to go work for 'the man' doing his dirty work? do you not realise the consequences of your 'work'?

its the u.s. soldiers who terrorise the world. oh and excuse me for being 'insensitive' on the dhp. i've personally felt the far reaching effects of u.s. foreign policy, it seems there's no where those ****ers haven't been.

but that's just my story, right? we're still living with the consequences of what the u.s. did. at least the iraqi war is over now, you can return home to your everyday life and the comforts that make you happy. mcchickens are $1.79 today. i think 'blind date' is on tonight, back to back episodes no less. have a good night, dolemite. You have got to be fvcking shitting me. How dare you accuse me of anything but honoring the commitment I made when I joined up. You think I WANTED to go over there and do that? HELL NO!!!!!! You think any of those kids that died over there wanted to be there? Fvck no. They were doing what they were told to do, by a bunch of bastards in Washington DC that dont give a fvck about you, me or anyone else. We were in a helpless, hopeless position over there. You got a fvucking nerve!!! [/QUOTE]I love how people just think we join the military because there was nothing else for us to do too.....you really have no clue do you?

Huey P. Freeman

06-13-2003, 06:39 PM

mhd

06-13-2003, 06:46 PM

yo fellas, don't sweat this idiot, just chalk it up to 3000+ members there is bound to be at least one retarded member. This is one of those posts that would never in life be uttered face to face.

Everybody on this page is happy that you made it home safe, don't let her ruin that, peace,

[ June 13, 2003, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: mhd ]

Dolemite73

06-13-2003, 06:49 PM

Thanks Mark. But I WILL not let people shit on those poor Americans, Brits and Iraqis that were killed.

imported_Gman

06-13-2003, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
yo fellas, don't sweat this idiot, just chalk it up to 3000+ members there is bound to be at least on retarded member. This is one of those posts that would never in life be uttered face to face.

Everybody on this page is happy that you made it home safe, don't let her ruin that, peace, I am glad you guys responded to this and not me. Timmy would have had to ban me. You guys get warnings and Dvine you have pretty much overstayed your welcome.

Anyways I'm out. Gotta get an early start on the road to the DHP picnic tomorrow

Peace -G

dVine

06-13-2003, 07:07 PM

oh okay, you signed up for what - to defend the U.S.? do you not understand in the least the purpose of the U.S. army? that the U.S. is an agressor at large? since when has the U.S. been attacked first? it's always in the guise of 'spreading democracy' so don't give me that patriotic bullshit.

but since you've gone through a lengthy indoctrination process to get to the point where you're at, i'm not expecting any exercises in critical thought on your behalf.

dVine

06-13-2003, 07:12 PM

I challenge someone to name one conflict (besides Pearl Harbour) the U.S. was justified in engaging in. List the time period, reason for action, including the date when the U.S. was provoked.

There's truth to what I'm saying, otherwise you all wouldn't get so emotional.

Huey P. Freeman

06-13-2003, 07:13 PM

I don't think this feeble minded person understands that the reason why she can have the freedoms she has is because of the sacrafices of patriots like my brother. People have died in wars throughout the history of this country so she could eat her fu.cking mcchicken( i hope you fu.cking choke on it) and watch blind date or do anything else you want to do. To imply that he is a terrorist is fu.cking insane. This war was bullshit. Of that we agree. But to blame the troops is some viet nam era type bullshit. You want to make a statement against what happened the vote bushes war monger ass out of office. But to call our heros terrorist qualifies you as an moron.

Dolemite73

06-13-2003, 07:16 PM

Well if you are so against "the man" and "the establishment" what are you doing to change things? And since we are ALL(you included) are tools for "the man", what exactly are you saying?

Huey P. Freeman

06-13-2003, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by dVine:
since when has the U.S. been attacked first?

Uhmm Pearl Harbor and 9/11 come instantly to mind.

Dolemite73

06-13-2003, 07:21 PM

And you are right. No one made me sign. But there are much worse thing to do than to serve your country. And no, I dont even serve my country. I just try to train the US Marines under me and to keep them alive so that they may defend your right to call us terrorist and tools for "the man".

dVine

06-13-2003, 07:41 PM

Firstly, can we please be cool about this? I step hard because this is a message board, and I'm seeking other points of view. Moving on:

Originally posted by Eargasm:
I don't think this feeble minded person understands that the reason why she can have the freedoms she has is because of the sacrafices of patriots like my brother.Eargasm, I don't buy that line about freedom. Most U.S. led operations have centered around the destructions of uncooperative governments, like Husseins, in pursuit of an economic end. Despite the spin the media puts on, I hardly believe we'd be speaking German or Russian had it not been for ally troops. That would have been fiscally impossible, and U.S. isolationist policy will substantiate that. And check yourself, you don't know me and my mind is hardly 'feeble'.

dVine

06-13-2003, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dVine:
since when has the U.S. been attacked first?

Uhmm Pearl Harbor and 9/11 come instantly to mind. [/QUOTE]The U.S. has engaged in HUNDREDS of wars resulting in the deaths of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of INNOCENT PEOPLE in the last century+, can't you do better than naming two conflicts, one of which was not even done on behalf of another state?

imported_Gman

06-13-2003, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by dVine:
I challenge someone to name one conflict (besides Pearl Harbour) the U.S. was justified in engaging in. List the time period, reason for action, including the date when the U.S. was provoked.

There's truth to what I'm saying, otherwise you all wouldn't get so emotional. Again you seem to be missing the point. Its how you asked the question. If you had said to me in person "Are you so hard up for a phucking job that you had to go work for "the man" doing his dirty work I would have probably slapped the pee out of you.

Dolemite73

06-13-2003, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Gman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dVine:
I challenge someone to name one conflict (besides Pearl Harbour) the U.S. was justified in engaging in. List the time period, reason for action, including the date when the U.S. was provoked.

There's truth to what I'm saying, otherwise you all wouldn't get so emotional. Again you seem to be missing the point. Its how you asked the question. If you had said to me in person "Are you so hard up for a phucking job that you had to go work for "the man" doing his dirty work I would have probably slapped the pee out of you. [/QUOTE]word Gman.....I probably would have acted a fool if someone had said that to me.

Dolemite73

06-13-2003, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by Gman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dVine:
I challenge someone to name one conflict (besides Pearl Harbour) the U.S. was justified in engaging in. List the time period, reason for action, including the date when the U.S. was provoked.

There's truth to what I'm saying, otherwise you all wouldn't get so emotional. Again you seem to be missing the point. Its how you asked the question. If you had said to me in person "Are you so hard up for a phucking job that you had to go work for "the man" doing his dirty work I would have probably slapped the pee out of you. [/QUOTE]Dvine...I agree with you an that point. But dont call the military butchers and terrorist. Its not our choice on where we go and what we are ordered to do.

dVine

06-13-2003, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
[QB] This is one of those posts that would never in life be uttered face to face.
I have, and will continue to spread this rhetoric (albeit, differently), face to face mhd, count on it. There are a lot of people I care about in the army, and can't help but give my opinion when it is their lives at risk in the face of these 'conflicts'.

Eargasm/Dolemite: I'm sorry for calling you terrorists, that was stupid and I didn't mean it, obviously its the man running things. Vote the ****ing man out already, why haven't we seen grass roots leaders in the U.S.?

dVine

06-13-2003, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Gman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dVine:
I challenge someone to name one conflict (besides Pearl Harbour) the U.S. was justified in engaging in. List the time period, reason for action, including the date when the U.S. was provoked.

There's truth to what I'm saying, otherwise you all wouldn't get so emotional. Again you seem to be missing the point. Its how you asked the question. If you had said to me in person "Are you so hard up for a phucking job that you had to go work for "the man" doing his dirty work I would have probably slapped the pee out of you. [/QUOTE]I would never position it like that gman. If you were my brother and you wanted to enlist I would do my best to make sure you understood my point of view and where I was coming from, that way my conscience is clear.

Huey P. Freeman

06-13-2003, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by dVine:
Firstly, can we please be cool about this? I step hard because this is a message board, and I'm seeking other points of view. Moving on:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
I don't think this feeble minded person understands that the reason why she can have the freedoms she has is because of the sacrafices of patriots like my brother.Eargasm, I don't buy that line about freedom. Most U.S. led operations have centered around the destructions of uncooperative governments, like Husseins, in pursuit of an economic end. Despite the spin the media puts on, I hardly believe we'd be speaking German or Russian had it not been for ally troops. That would have been fiscally impossible, and U.S. isolationist policy will substantiate that. And check yourself, you don't know me and my mind is hardly 'feeble'. [/QUOTE]Actually if you knew anything about WWII, which you obviously don't, you'd know that the us dropped the atomic bomb out of desparation. We were getting spanked in the south pacific. They had no choice. So yes we would have been speaking Japanese if it were not for that act.

dVine

06-13-2003, 08:30 PM

That's subject to interpretation Eargasm. Lots believe the U.S. dropped the bomb to make an example of Japan in the face of other superpowers, like Russia.

We're all subject to different bias, it really is a function of where you live and the media sources you're subject to. And since every story has its spin, I think listening to different viewpoints helps in forming our own conclusions. Don't hate on me cause I think differently, try appreciating the fact that I'm a completely different person, in a different place and subject to different social conditioning. And as an outsider looking in, I've thought a lot about the U.S. military and what fuels it. :(

Dolemite73

06-13-2003, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by dVine:
That's subject to interpretation Eargasm. Lots believe the U.S. dropped the bomb to make an example of Japan in the face of other superpowers, like Russia.

We're all subject to different bias, it really is a function of where you live and the media sources you're subject to. And since every story has its spin, I think listening to different viewpoints helps in forming our own conclusions. Don't hate on me cause I think differently, try appreciating the fact that I'm a completely different person, in a different place and subject to different social conditioning. And as an outsider looking in, I've thought a lot about the U.S. military and what fuels it. :( No....the US military is a tool. The people that fuels it are the ones you need to worry about. We do nothing on our own. We are told what to do.

dVine

06-13-2003, 08:56 PM

I meant what makes the army tick. The fact that's it's a professional paid army is what bothers me.

If 'patriotism' is why a soldier would enlist, then so be it. But when you factor in material rewards (salary, college) patriotism may become secondary and I think that's a dangerous proposition. I'm sure you've noticed the kids you're training are mostly from impovrished areas, I can see how it's their only way out of the ghetto but why in the world couldn't they at least reward a school teacher as much?

Dolemite73

06-13-2003, 08:59 PM

You have a big misconception on exactly how much we are paid and how many benefits we have. We are not rich and we struggle just like any other professional does.

mrbillpeewee

06-14-2003, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by Dolemite73:
You have a big misconception on exactly how much we are paid and how many benefits we have. We are not rich and we struggle just like any other professional does. Man, no diss but be fo'real your professional at killing. That what it means to be in a Millitary!
It's your job? Who can really trip on that? Your paid knowing a blood splatter pattern is possible. How does the MAN look Funky? Now don't get it twisted I think you are a heck of a stud to put your life on the line for ME. Thats Love big time! Thank You!
But don't make it seem that you were'nt there into the Adventure. Keep it real 2 yourself First graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[ June 14, 2003, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: mrbillpeewee ]

mdpm99

06-14-2003, 05:42 AM

Folks:

I just wanted to say how much I really like all of you...you are a lot of fun (most of the time) I don't know any group of people that gets along with each other all the time. The fact that you yak together, joke together, care about each other and yes even bicker makes you a real community, and yes, I am glad you exist.

graemlins/respekt.gif

d

mdpm99

06-14-2003, 06:27 AM

.

[ June 14, 2003, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

Jolyon

06-14-2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by dVine:
I challenge someone to name one conflict (besides Pearl Harbour) the U.S. was justified in engaging in. List the time period, reason for action, including the date when the U.S. was provoked.

There's truth to what I'm saying, otherwise you all wouldn't get so emotional. I'm anti Iraq war too. But I'll answer your question. Kosovo. The US did some good there and saved millions of muslims from possible genocide. Of course, they should have got involved earlier...

mrbillpeewee

06-14-2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by david mancuso:
Folks:

I just wanted to say how much I really like all of you...you are a lot of fun (most of the time) I don't know any group of people that gets along with each other all the time. The fact that you yak together, joke together, care about each other and yes even bicker makes you a real community, and yes, I am glad you exist.

graemlins/respekt.gif

So am I! Be a drag if we did'nt?

d

mhd

06-14-2003, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by mrbillpeewee:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dolemite73:
You have a big misconception on exactly how much we are paid and how many benefits we have. We are not rich and we struggle just like any other professional does. Man, no diss but be fo'real your professional at killing. That what it means to be in a Millitary!
It's your job? Who can really trip on that? Your paid knowing a blood splatter pattern is possible. How does the MAN look Funky? Now don't get it twisted I think you are a heck of a stud to put your life on the line for ME. Thats Love big time! Thank You!
But don't make it seem that you were'nt there into the Adventure. Keep it real 2 yourself First graemlins/thumbsup.gif [/QUOTE]of course you realize the factors that lead a lot of desperate, poor, uneducated, black, white, latin boys and girls to choose the military. most with no illusions of patriotism, only escape from ghetto and poverty circumstances, only to choose the employer of last resort, not to fight anybody's war

Dolemite73

06-14-2003, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mrbillpeewee:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dolemite73:
You have a big misconception on exactly how much we are paid and how many benefits we have. We are not rich and we struggle just like any other professional does. Man, no diss but be fo'real your professional at killing. That what it means to be in a Millitary!
It's your job? Who can really trip on that? Your paid knowing a blood splatter pattern is possible. How does the MAN look Funky? Now don't get it twisted I think you are a heck of a stud to put your life on the line for ME. Thats Love big time! Thank You!
But don't make it seem that you were'nt there into the Adventure. Keep it real 2 yourself First graemlins/thumbsup.gif [/QUOTE]of course you realize the factors that lead a lot of desperate, poor, uneducated, black, white, latin boys and girls to choose the military. most with no illusions of patriotism, only escape from ghetto and poverty circumstances, only to choose the employer of last resort, not to fight anybody's war [/QUOTE]That was my reson for joining. I didnt want to die on the streets of Chicago.

Rudy Jordan

06-14-2003, 12:35 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dVine:
[QB] I challenge someone to name one conflict (besides Pearl Harbour) the U.S. was justified in engaging in. List the time period, reason for action, including the date when the U.S. was provoked.

I couldn't hold back from this one. Operation Just Cause - Panama Dec 1989-Jan 1990. In the 12 months prior there were 1100 incidences of harassment of US servicemembers and their families. The Panamanian police and military were combined into what was called the PDF (Panamanian Defense Forces). If they saw us walking down the street they would threaten to arrest us unless we gave them our money, jewelry, ect. They were known to lock servicemen in the trucks of their own cars while they raped their wives. And they trafficked plenty of Columbian cocaine into the US. Norriega announced that Panama was at war with the US on Dec 22nd and the PDF killed a Marine Lt. near Panama City. At 1:00AM on the 23rd we RETALIATED. We didn't start that one.

I killed a Panamanian soldier on Christmas eve, and it was not so that you could enjoy any freedom or democracy or any of that shit, it was because he was trying to KILL ME. I'm not a terrorist or a mercenary, I didn't enjoy doing what I did. I didn't shoot him for America, I shot him for the purpose of self-preservation. If you've never lived it you have no right to label it and PHUCK YOU if you want to critisize it.

I didn't spend 12 years in the Army because of a lack of other jobs. I did it for the opportunities that it afforded me. When I was a Recruiter I enlisted over 100 people and 1/2 of them were white kids from middle class families. You all need to stop with the stereotypes of the people who are in the military, there are far fewer blacks and hispanics than you seem to believe there are. Pull your heads out of your asses and stop bashing the military.

Dan, I'm glad you're back and hope to see you soon, brotha.

dVine

06-14-2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Jolyon:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dVine:
I challenge someone to name one conflict (besides Pearl Harbour) the U.S. was justified in engaging in. List the time period, reason for action, including the date when the U.S. was provoked.

There's truth to what I'm saying, otherwise you all wouldn't get so emotional. I'm anti Iraq war too. But I'll answer your question. Kosovo. The US did some good there and saved millions of muslims from possible genocide. Of course, they should have got involved earlier... [/QUOTE]That's like saying they went into Iraq to liberate the Iraqi people and is therefore one side of the story. Other viewpoints center around different purposes including the destruction of all remnants of the Eastern bloc and of course commodities, namely oil and coal.

I'm not denying that Milosevic wasn't a rogue leader, you saw how the U.N. had little reservation about the war, and it was obviously in Europe's best interest to have him removed.

dVine

06-14-2003, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Rudy Jordan:
Operation Just Cause - Panama Dec 1989-Jan 1990.[/QB]What you described was a personal conflict within the greater conflict, being the Invasion of Panama which is viewed by many as unjust on the U.S.'s behalf. We may have benefitted economically from it all, but even that is subject to interpretation.

The morals surrounding your situation are only for you to judge, but I think its important to assess the conflict as a whole in order to understand why you were put in that position. And that involves a deconstruction of the Panama situation, and how Noriega and the CIA fit into the picture.

From my viewpoint, Noriega was another rogue leader like Saddam who, of course, was U.S. governments boy toy since the 70's and eventhough he was still involved in drug trafficking he stayed on CIA payroll. They valued his services in an effort to stomp out the Nicaraguan (sp?)government but relations went downhill when he started abusing the power U.S. involvement had granted him. That's when the U.S. started laying charges on him for drug trafficking (in the mid-80's), eventhough they knew about it all along.

So he started stealing elections and became more powerful in the process. That's when he crossed the line from friendly leader to tyrant because he was no longer serving U.S. interests. The final straw involved control of the Panama Canal, critical to import-export activites and the U.S. government wanted to make sure there was a friendly government in Panama prior to
January 1, 1990 when most of the administration of the Canal was due to go over to Panama (all of it by the year 2000) so a 'regime change' was in order.

Enter the U.S. military to do what I referred to as dirty work. And to who go the benefits? Import/Export and resource based industries. Who gets the bill? American taxpayers, but don't think it's been paid for...the U.S. is trillions of dollars in debt and due for catastrophe because eventually investment will pull out and the value of the U.S. dollar will go through the floor.

Obviously a positive side effect from all this is the benefits derived from military service, let's hope those college educations go towards progressive and positive change, rather than maintaining the status quo.

Friday

06-14-2003, 04:17 PM

DVine,

Your accusing angel has gone a little out of control whereas you have only created yourself to be the one with tyranny and strife. It is easy to sit back and point fingers at what you feel is injustice and this I do understand.....it is the lack of control.

However, you complain about race here, you complain about war here but you have offered up no solutions nor have you engaged yourself in conversation that would be beneficial...you seem to want more conflict.

Before you continue your quetioning of others I suggest you try to look a little deeper as to why you want to make others feel worse. If you have this big a beef with the US, move there...integrate yourself there, fight the powers that be. But don't just sit here in Canada and point fingers at others who are not in power when you have no intention of doing anything yourself .

Perhaps you need to examine the "war" that is taking place between your ears, and I mean that most sincerly (as should others). Then maybe, you might be a little more effective. ;)

****************************

MrBillPeewee,

mrbillpeewee
Member
Member # 25
posted June 13, 2003 05:30 PM *** ** ** ** * * ** **
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe you missed the topic...Humor?
I overstand that war is a terrible thing however
you enlisted to do just what was called upon you to do ..Kill ppls. Don't blame me for your good work! Gas prices are down now Thanks!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gas prices are down?? Looks to me like you supported and appreciated the war a little more then the troops did. :rolleyes:

Peace
gf

[ June 14, 2003, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: girlfriday ]

Dolemite73

06-14-2003, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
DVine,

Your accusing angel has gone a little out of control whereas you have only created yourself to be the one with tyranny and strife. It is easy to sit back and point fingers at what you feel is injustice and this I do understand.....it is the lack of control.

However, you complain about race here, you complain about war here but you have offered up no solutions nor have you engaged yourself in conversation that would be beneficial...you seem to want more conflict.

Before you continue your quetioning of others I suggest you try to look a little deeper as to why you want to make others feel worse. If you have this big a beef with the US, move there...integrate yourself there, fight the powers that be. But don't just sit here in Canada and point fingers at others who are not in power when you have no intention of doing anything yourself .

Perhaps you need to examine the "war" that is taking place between your ears, and I mean that most sincerly (as should others). Then maybe, you might be a little more effective. ;)

****************************

MrBillPeewee,

mrbillpeewee
Member
Member # 25
posted June 13, 2003 05:30 PM *** ** ** ** * * ** **
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe you missed the topic...Humor?
I overstand that war is a terrible thing however
you enlisted to do just what was called upon you to do ..Kill ppls. Don't blame me for your good work! Gas prices are down now Thanks!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gas prices are down?? Looks to me like you supported and appreciated the war a little more then the troops did. :rolleyes:

Peace
gf GF
You have said it all. This is exactly how I feel. Dont talk about it, be about it. Don't bitch and moan and cry about the problems, and then offer no solution. And as for peewee, I aint paying him no attention. He hasnt a clue of the consequences these oil tycoons that run the US have done. He is being simplistic.

Rudy Jordan

06-14-2003, 08:33 PM

dVine, You are exactly right about the sequence of events that led up to Operation Just Cause. What I take offense to is the way you (and others)have portrayed U.S. servicemembers as hired thugs and assasins that couldn't make it in society and needed to resort to doing the bidding of the government as mercenaries in the military.

Service members are just like everyone else in the country. We have jobs, families, responsibilities, just like you. My first 3 years were spent in the communications field. 3 years as a Recruiter, and 6 years as a Behavioral Science Specialist. PROFESSIONAL SKILLS. Not 12 years sneaking around the jungle looking for the dictator du jour to catch/kill for my governmental puppetmasters.

You claim to know people in the Army. Go visit them and find out what they really do every day. Then try to show a little more sensitivity to the feelings of those who serve and have served.

Dolemite73

06-14-2003, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by Rudy Jordan:
dVine, You are exactly right about the sequence of events that led up to Operation Just Cause. What I take offense to is the way you (and others)have portrayed U.S. servicemembers as hired thugs and assasins that couldn't make it in society and needed to resort to doing the bidding of the government as mercenaries in the military.

Service members are just like everyone else in the country. We have jobs, families, responsibilities, just like you. My first 3 years were spent in the communications field. 3 years as a Recruiter, and 6 years as a Behavioral Science Specialist. PROFESSIONAL SKILLS. Not 12 years sneaking around the jungle looking for the dictator du jour to catch/kill for my governmental puppetmasters.

You claim to know people in the Army. Go visit them and find out what they really do every day. Then try to show a little more sensitivity to the feelings of those who serve and have served. Preach on Rudy...... graemlins/beerchug.gif

Rudy Jordan

06-14-2003, 08:57 PM

Thanks Dolemite. I got a beer for you when you get home.

Peace

mrbillpeewee

06-15-2003, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday

***************************

MrBillPeewee,

mrbillpeewee
Member
Member # 25
posted June 13, 2003 05:30 PM *** ** ** ** * * ** **
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe you missed the topic...Humor?
I overstand that war is a terrible thing however
you enlisted to do just what was called upon you to do ..Kill ppls. Don't blame me for your good work! Gas prices are down now Thanks!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gas prices are down?? Looks to me like you supported and appreciated the war a little more then the troops did. :rolleyes:

Peace
gf [/QB]Sexy Girl, maybe you can't see the humor in me calling Bush a thug? Ok, I can deal with that.
Also maybe the gas comment was crude? Still the fact remains that we all are just puppets in a mean azz play. I have no more power or say in what goes on as dolomite does. That get off your azz and do something to stop this 'ideaology' is Hogwash. Let us deal with the facts, ppls need a 7/11 in the area all over the world. This goverment keeps us comfortable in everyway. Brainwashed we close our eyes everyday as horror is played out on Americas World stage. Who is really trying to stop anything? We need to respect our demons in order to learn from them . This just might be a way to defend against them. I know my humor is Ugly GF but so is the rest of the World! graemlins/acclaim.gif

mrbillpeewee

06-15-2003, 12:42 AM

O Plus you and me are too Fine to play Army man! graemlins/rofl.gif

[ June 15, 2003, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: mrbillpeewee ]

Bold Soul

06-15-2003, 10:59 AM

Mr. BillPeeWee - I thought your sarcasm came through ok.

dVine - Peace is so much more than the absence of violent conflict. As all the world is connected, you only enjoy "peace" in the Great North because war is taking place somewhere else. At some point one must make the choice of INCLUSION.

Dolemite - Again, I am humbled by your courage. That you could allow the conflict within and still make it home alive is astounding. Most would have either abandoned their duty or sought the intoxication of rightness to get them through. You allowed for the contridiction - to much pain, I am certain - and therefore found new dimensions.

ALL - Girlfriday teaches us all that war exists without because there is nothing but war within. By this, we are all veterans.

dVine

06-18-2003, 10:42 PM

Bold Soul/Girlfriday:

Are either of you interested in this topic? We were having a productive discussion prior to the addition of metaphors and innuendo about 'internal wars' which don't make sense to me as they pertain to this issue, which has clear-cut causes and solutions. I'm not saying it's foul - neither of you know me well enough to make statements about my intentions or activities so I don't take offense.

I'll hit you both up if I decide to change the world or save mankind - for now I'd like to engage in interesting discussions with people I'll likely never meet. Most of these topics are too hot to discuss with people who're within a few degrees separation - that's why some threads go on for many pages. There's obviously a lot to be said despite complaints from some people who'd rather http://deephousepage.com/smilies/lol.gif and http://deephousepage.com/smilies/fun_84.gif all day long.

With most political debate, certain oft-accepted ideals are challenged and while that might make some people 'feel bad', the effects are undoubtedly beneficial. Case in point would be this thread - Rudy Jordan and Dolemite proved that not all military personnel are brainwashed overly-patriotic tools. While that may not be important to you, its important to me and anyone else who thought otherwise. I like reading opinion - disagreement is not disrespect - and if anyone reacts violently they're just showcasing their insecurity.

Bold Soul

06-18-2003, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by dVine:
Bold Soul/Girlfriday:

Are either of you interested in this topic? We were having a productive discussion prior to the addition of metaphors and innuendo about 'internal wars' which don't make sense to me as they pertain to this issue, which has clear-cut causes and solutions. I'm not saying it's foul - neither of you know me well enough to make statements about my intentions or activities so I don't take offense.

I'll hit you both up if I decide to change the world or save mankind - for now I'd like to engage in interesting discussions with people I'll likely never meet. Most of these topics are too hot to discuss with people who're within a few degrees separation - that's why some threads go on for many pages. There's obviously a lot to be said despite complaints from some people who'd rather http://deephousepage.com/smilies/lol.gif and http://deephousepage.com/smilies/fun_84.gif all day long.

With most political debate, certain oft-accepted ideals are challenged and while that might make some people 'feel bad', the effects are undoubtedly beneficial. Case in point would be this thread - Rudy Jordan and Dolemite proved that not all military personnel are brainwashed overly-patriotic tools. While that may not be important to you, its important to me and anyone else who thought otherwise. I like reading opinion - disagreement is not disrespect - and if anyone reacts violently they're just showcasing their insecurity. There is disagreement and then there is disrespect. That shit you took to Dolemite was stank - period. You should be ashamed of yourself for blindsiding him like that. If it took you offending him to find out that members of our armed services aren't all mindless and heartless then the cost was too high.

I'm tired of farting around with you "heads" that READY - SHOOT - AIM. You were foul and you need to grow up. Whatever if you don't want to hear it.

Friday

06-18-2003, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by dVine:
Bold Soul/Girlfriday:

Are either of you interested in this topic? We were having a productive discussion prior to the addition of metaphors and innuendo about 'internal wars' which don't make sense to me as they pertain to this issue, which has clear-cut causes and solutions. I'm not saying it's foul - neither of you know me well enough to make statements about my intentions or activities so I don't take offense.

I'll hit you both up if I decide to change the world or save mankind - for now I'd like to engage in interesting discussions with people I'll likely never meet. Most of these topics are too hot to discuss with people who're within a few degrees separation - that's why some threads go on for many pages. There's obviously a lot to be said despite complaints from some people who'd rather http://deephousepage.com/smilies/lol.gif and http://deephousepage.com/smilies/fun_84.gif all day long.

With most political debate, certain oft-accepted ideals are challenged and while that might make some people 'feel bad', the effects are undoubtedly beneficial. Case in point would be this thread - Rudy Jordan and Dolemite proved that not all military personnel are brainwashed overly-patriotic tools. While that may not be important to you, its important to me and anyone else who thought otherwise. I like reading opinion - disagreement is not disrespect - and if anyone reacts violently they're just showcasing their insecurity. This was not productive and you certainly made no effort to read what both of us had to say.

I am not interested in the topic when there is nothing more than more shit being tossed around in order to prove oneself right.

I find that none of this is important to you. Have you been to war do you know its effects???? Please allow me into your world.

Having grown up with a vet, I understand the effects of war very well...perhaps one day we can sit down and share some coffee and I will tell you all the little horrors I had to endure because of it. DEAL?

And of course the metaphors and innuendos about 'internal wars' don't make sense to you because you are meddling in other people's business.

You are not here to learn anything, you are here to judge. You poke and prod in order to get a reaction.

Well, here it is.

Dolemite73

06-19-2003, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dVine:
Bold Soul/Girlfriday:

Are either of you interested in this topic? We were having a productive discussion prior to the addition of metaphors and innuendo about 'internal wars' which don't make sense to me as they pertain to this issue, which has clear-cut causes and solutions. I'm not saying it's foul - neither of you know me well enough to make statements about my intentions or activities so I don't take offense.

I'll hit you both up if I decide to change the world or save mankind - for now I'd like to engage in interesting discussions with people I'll likely never meet. Most of these topics are too hot to discuss with people who're within a few degrees separation - that's why some threads go on for many pages. There's obviously a lot to be said despite complaints from some people who'd rather http://deephousepage.com/smilies/lol.gif and http://deephousepage.com/smilies/fun_84.gif all day long.

With most political debate, certain oft-accepted ideals are challenged and while that might make some people 'feel bad', the effects are undoubtedly beneficial. Case in point would be this thread - Rudy Jordan and Dolemite proved that not all military personnel are brainwashed overly-patriotic tools. While that may not be important to you, its important to me and anyone else who thought otherwise. I like reading opinion - disagreement is not disrespect - and if anyone reacts violently they're just showcasing their insecurity. This was not productive and you certainly made no effort to read what both of us had to say.

I am not interested in the topic when there is nothing more than more shit being tossed around in order to prove oneself right.

I find that none of this is important to you. Have you been to war do you know its effects???? Please allow me into your world.

Having grown up with a vet, I understand the effects of war very well...perhaps one day we can sit down and share some coffee and I will tell you all the little horrors I had to endure because of it. DEAL?

And of course the metaphors and innuendos about 'internal wars' don't make sense to you because you are meddling in other people's business.

You are not here to learn anything, you are here to judge. You poke and prod in order to get a reaction.

Well, here it is. [/QUOTE]I know what you are talking about. From both angles now, living with a vet and now being a vet myself. But the differemce is, I wont put my kids what my dad put me and my brothers through. These people will never understand unless they have experienced it.

imported_Gman

06-19-2003, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
There is disagreement and then there is disrespect. That shit you took to Dolemite was stank - period. You should be ashamed of yourself for blindsiding him like that. If it took you offending him to find out that members of our armed services aren't all mindless and heartless then the cost was too high.

I'm tired of farting around with you "heads" that READY - SHOOT - AIM. You were foul and you need to grow up. Whatever if you don't want to hear it. Exactly, its not what you say but how you say it. Dvine here's a message so that we clearly understand one another since nothing else is getting thru. Just a couple of days to think about it.

-G

Rudy Jordan

06-19-2003, 06:31 AM

dVine, I understand where you are coming from. Remember, I was an Army Recruiter for 3 1/2 years, and I heard your point of view every week. Many people have formed opinions about the military based on their experiences with veterans, and our generation has been affected the most by the Vietnam era vets, myself included. Just as with anything else, we have to keep in mind that everything evolves, change is constantly taking place, even in the military.

If the few words from Dolemite and I truly made a positive impression on you, great. It means a lot that you acknowledged that, and I hope that you are wrong about us never meeting face to face.

Peace.

Cheddar

06-19-2003, 06:35 AM

GROOVE VICTIM

06-19-2003, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by 1343:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dVine:
I challenge someone to name one conflict (besides Pearl Harbour) the U.S. was justified in engaging in. List the time period, reason for action, including the date when the U.S. was provoked.

There's truth to what I'm saying, otherwise you all wouldn't get so emotional. Cant be too sure about that either (Pearl harbor..). [/QUOTE]Explain your argument please.

Cheddar

06-19-2003, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 1343:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dVine:
I challenge someone to name one conflict (besides Pearl Harbour) the U.S. was justified in engaging in. List the time period, reason for action, including the date when the U.S. was provoked.

There's truth to what I'm saying, otherwise you all wouldn't get so emotional. Cant be too sure about that either (Pearl harbor..). [/QUOTE]Explain your argument please. [/QUOTE]I understand that the circumstances leading up to PH have been debated and scrutinized heavily by everyone but the GOV...just like JFK and 9-11.
My comment was made to express that you cant say PH wasnt a known catastrophe allowed to happen in order to get into WW2. Until there is due process/fair hearing where all remarks and evidence are presented...it IMO is absurd to believe what they have told you about the incident.

GROOVE VICTIM

06-19-2003, 07:27 AM

There have been documentaries and essays disccusing the events leading up to Pearl Harbor.

Being a Pearl Harbor Baby (born on December 7th) I've been always fascinated with this historical day in time.

There are articles stating that the Japanese planes were mistaken for our own fleet and that they were part of a drill, and many instances that have led to the "pushing aside" of what was happening in the skys that morning.

But I do believe that whether we were attacked or not by the Japanese, we would've have entered the war in the European Theater without question. I think that Japan was on the backburner and did not pose an eminant threat to our borders (The continental US) at the time. I believe that our European ties (politically and genitacally) played a huge roll in our decision making whether to enter the war and help or to stay out and be the pascifists we were known for being for the time period between World War I and World War II.

So, if we were not attacked on December 7, 1941, would it be justifyable for us to be involved in World War II? What political and economic gain in Europe would we have accomplished? In these days and times, who would be our allies? No one can tell, but I bet you that Germany, had they not bullshitted with the technology that they posessed at the time with long range missiles, and jet engine technology, the outcome of the war may have been totally different. And I've always wondered if Nuclear weapons would have been used to stop the fight in europe. Would we have gave away our secrets to our allies on developing atomic bombs, who knows. But just be happy that the events occured in the sequence we read about now, because alot of us would not be here had we decided not to do what we set forth to do to Japan.

Peace

[ June 19, 2003, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: GROOVE VICTIM ]

der geile hund

06-19-2003, 07:29 AM

The US public was overwhelmingly isoliationist before Pearl Harbor.

mhd

06-19-2003, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Dolemite73:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dVine:
Bold Soul/Girlfriday:

Are either of you interested in this topic? We were having a productive discussion prior to the addition of metaphors and innuendo about 'internal wars' which don't make sense to me as they pertain to this issue, which has clear-cut causes and solutions. I'm not saying it's foul - neither of you know me well enough to make statements about my intentions or activities so I don't take offense.

I'll hit you both up if I decide to change the world or save mankind - for now I'd like to engage in interesting discussions with people I'll likely never meet. Most of these topics are too hot to discuss with people who're within a few degrees separation - that's why some threads go on for many pages. There's obviously a lot to be said despite complaints from some people who'd rather http://deephousepage.com/smilies/lol.gif and http://deephousepage.com/smilies/fun_84.gif all day long.

With most political debate, certain oft-accepted ideals are challenged and while that might make some people 'feel bad', the effects are undoubtedly beneficial. Case in point would be this thread - Rudy Jordan and Dolemite proved that not all military personnel are brainwashed overly-patriotic tools. While that may not be important to you, its important to me and anyone else who thought otherwise. I like reading opinion - disagreement is not disrespect - and if anyone reacts violently they're just showcasing their insecurity. This was not productive and you certainly made no effort to read what both of us had to say.

I am not interested in the topic when there is nothing more than more shit being tossed around in order to prove oneself right.

I find that none of this is important to you. Have you been to war do you know its effects???? Please allow me into your world.

Having grown up with a vet, I understand the effects of war very well...perhaps one day we can sit down and share some coffee and I will tell you all the little horrors I had to endure because of it. DEAL?

And of course the metaphors and innuendos about 'internal wars' don't make sense to you because you are meddling in other people's business.

You are not here to learn anything, you are here to judge. You poke and prod in order to get a reaction.

Well, here it is. [/QUOTE]I know what you are talking about. From both angles now, living with a vet and now being a vet myself. But the differemce is, I wont put my kids what my dad put me and my brothers through. These people will never understand unless they have experienced it. [/QUOTE]great comments by both of you and Bold, peace

andrea

06-19-2003, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Eargasm:
I don't think this feeble minded person understands that the reason why she can have the freedoms she has is because of the sacrafices of patriots like my brother. People have died in wars throughout the history of this country so she could eat her fu.cking mcchicken( i hope you fu.cking choke on it) and watch blind date or do anything else you want to do. To imply that he is a terrorist is fu.cking insane. This war was bullshit. Of that we agree. But to blame the troops is some viet nam era type bullshit. You want to make a statement against what happened the vote bushes war monger ass out of office. But to call our heros terrorist qualifies you as an moron. Well said. Some people don't understand duty. I'm sure most enlistees never thought they would be in Iraq, much less lose their lives over this fiasco. What happened to our Vietnam vets is a tragedy and should never happen again. Our troops are still sacrificing their lives for us, it's worse now because Hussain has put a price on the heads of coalition troops.

der geile hund

06-19-2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by andrea:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Eargasm:
I don't think this feeble minded person understands that the reason why she can have the freedoms she has is because of the sacrafices of patriots like my brother. People have died in wars throughout the history of this country so she could eat her fu.cking mcchicken( i hope you fu.cking choke on it) and watch blind date or do anything else you want to do. To imply that he is a terrorist is fu.cking insane. This war was bullshit. Of that we agree. But to blame the troops is some viet nam era type bullshit. You want to make a statement against what happened the vote bushes war monger ass out of office. But to call our heros terrorist qualifies you as an moron. Well said. Some people don't understand duty. I'm sure most enlistees never thought they would be in Iraq, much less lose their lives over this fiasco. What happened to our Vietnam vets is a tragedy and should never happen again. Our troops are still sacrificing their lives for us, it's worse now because Hussain has put a price on the heads of coalition troops. [/QUOTE]Hey Andrea, Read this (http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2954539)

DJ Omar Herrera

06-19-2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by mrbillpeewee:
Ppl keep saying Bill Clinton was the first black
President...hokey Whoo.
Bush! Bush!
Bush is the first Black president. The man is Keen on the needs of his ppl!
While demanding Respect!
That's like kicking ass and taking names.
That old Bill 'Fold a dollar' Clinton was just a Liwiiinsky
Blowpop.

You want to know why I jock Bush so hard?

Cause He's good. Good for my Thug Image!
Bush could take Ubekastand, A Pack of Irans.., a Africananland I don't care. Take it! Get it!
Let me be the first to say as Americans We need some thangs...... we want Thangs. Well, Bush is Damn Show handellling that!
Get while the getting is good!

I mean when you really think about it, only God has the last say in what is to become of the Human Race (yeah spelling correct).
No matter how powerful we think we are.
God has the last say!
Bush could catch a stroke reaching to push the button!

Exuse me for getting all emotional.....

But thats Why I can stand here today , and make these remarks because I am Proud to be American.

Plus this only confirms my deep spritfilled belief
That Tupuc did't DIE in Vain.
Thug Life Forever graemlins/acclaim.gif so sad!!!!!! graemlins/jpshakehead.gif please read below

This article, one of the best short analyses of the Bush administration's policies,

was first published by "Vorwarts," Germany on June 8, 2003

Information Clearing House

In the Western democracies in the last fifty years, we have grown accustomed to governments whose policies on specific issues may be good or bad, but which essentially institute incremental changes to the status quo. The major exceptions have been Thatcher and Reagan, but even their programs of dismantling systems of social welfare seem, in retrospect, mild compared to what is happening in the United States under George Bush-- or more exactly, the ruling junta that tells Bush what to do and say.

It is unquestionably the most radical government in modern American history, one whose ideology and actions have become so pervasive, and are so unquestionably mirrored by the mass media here, that the population seems to have forgotten what "normal" is.

George Bush is the first unelected President of the United States, installed by a right-wing Supreme Court in a kind of judicial coup d'etat. He is the first to actively subvert one of the pillars of American democracy: the separation of church and state. There are now daily prayer meetings and Bible study groups in every branch of the government, and religious organizations are being given funds to take over educational and welfare programs that have always been the domain of the state.

Bush is the first president to invoke the specific "Jesus Christ" rather than an ecumenical "God," and he has surrounded himself with evangelical Christians, including his Attorney General, who attends a church where he talks in tongues.

It is the first administration to openly declare a policy of unilateral aggression, a "Pax Americana" where the presence of allies (whether England or Bulgaria) is agreeable but unimportant; where international treaties no longer apply to the United States; and where-- for the first time in history-- this country reserves the right to non-defensive, "pre-emptive" strikes against any nation on earth, for whatever reason it declares.

It is the first-- since the internment of Japanese-Americans in World War II-- to enact special laws for a specific ethnic group. Non-citizen young Muslim men are now required to register and subject themselves to interrogation. Many hundreds have been arrested and held without trial or access to legal assistance-- a violation of another pillar of American democracy: habeas corpus. Many have been taken from their families and deported on minor technical immigration violations; the whereabouts of many others are still unknown. And, in Guantanamo Bay, where it is said that they are now preparing execution chambers, hundreds of foreign nationals -- including a 13-year-old and a man who claims to be 100-- have been kept for almost two years in a limbo that clearly contravenes the Geneva Convention.

Similar to the Reagan era, it is an administration openly devoted to helping the rich and ignoring the poor, one that has turned the surplus of the Clinton years into a massive deficit through its combination of enormous tax cuts for the wealthy (particularly those who earn more than a million dollars a year) and increases in defense spending. (And, although Republicans always campaign on "less government," it has created the largest new government bureaucracy in history: the Department of Homeland Security.) The Financial Times of England, hardly a hotbed of leftists, has categorized this economic policy as "the lunatics taking over the asylum."

But more than Reagan-- whose policies tended to benefit the rich in general-- most of Bush's legislation specifically enriches those in his lifelong inner circle from the oil, mining, logging, construction, and pharmaceutical industries. At the middle level of the bureaucracy, where laws may be issued without Congressional approval, hundreds of regulations have been changed to lower standards of pollution or safety in the workplace, to open up wilderness areas for exploitation, or to eliminate the testing of drugs.

Billions in government contracts have been awarded, without competition, to corporations formerly run by administration officials. In a country where the most significant social changes are enacted by court rulings, rather than by legislation, the Bush administration has been filling every level of the complex judicial system with ultra-right ideologues, especially those who have protected corporations from lawsuits by individuals or environmental groups, and those who are opposed to women's reproductive rights. It remains to be seen how far they can push their antipathy to contraception and abortion. They have already banned a rare form of late-term abortion that is only given when the health of the mother is endangered or the fetus is terribly deformed, and a large portion of Bush's heralded billions to Africa to fight AIDS will be devoted to so-called "abstinence" education.

Most of all, America doesn't feel like America any more. The climate of militarism and fear, similar to any totalitarian state, permeates everything. Bush is the first American president in memory to swagger around in a military uniform, though he himself-- like all of his most militant advisers-- evaded the Vietnam War. (Even Eisenhower, a general and a war hero, never wore his uniform while he was president).

In the airports of provincial cities, there are frequent announcements in that assuring, disembodied voice of science-fiction films: "The Department of Homeland Security advises that the Terror Alert is now . . . Code Orange." Every few weeks there is an announcement that another terrorist attack is imminent, and citizens are urged to take ludicrous measures, like sealing their windows, against biological and chemical attacks, and to report the suspicious activities of their neighbors.

The Pentagon institutes the "Total Information Awareness" program to collect data on the ordinary activities of ordinary citizens (credit card charges, library book withdrawals, university course enrollments) and when this is perceived as going too far, they change the name to "Terrorist Information Awareness" and continue to do the same things. Millions are listed in airport security computers as potential terrorists, including antiwar demonstrators and pacifists. Critics are warned to "watch what they say" and lists of "traitors" are posted on the internet.

The war in Iraq has been the most extreme manifestation of this new America, and almost a casebook study in totalitarian techniques.

First, an Enemy is created by blatant lies that are endlessly repeated until the population believes it: in this case, that Iraq was linked to the attack on the World Trade Center, and that it possesses vast "weapons of mass destruction" that threaten the world.

Then, a War of Liberation, entirely portrayed by the mass media in terms of our Heroic Troops, with little or no imagery of casualties and devastation, and with morale-inspiring, scripted "news" scenes-- such as the toppling of the Saddam statue and the heroic "rescue" of Private Lynch-- worthy of Soviet cinema.

Finally, as has happened with Afghanistan, very little news of the chaos that has followed the Great Victory. Instead, the propaganda machine moves on to a new Enemy-- this time, Iran.

It is very difficult to speak of what is happening in America without resorting to the hyperbolic cliches of anti-Americanism that have lost their meaning after so many decades, but that have now finally come true.

Perhaps one can only recite the facts, and I have mentioned only some of them here. This is, quite simply, the most frightening American administration in modern times, one that is appalling both to the left and to traditional conservatives. This junta is unabashed in its imperialist ambitions; it is enacting an Orwellian state of Perpetual War; it is dismantling, or attempting to dismantle, some of the most fundamental tenets of American democracy; it is acting without opposition within the government, and is operating so quickly on so many fronts that it has overwhelmed and exhausted any popular opposition.

Perhaps it cannot be stopped, but the first step toward slowing it down is the recognition that this is an American government unlike any other in this country's history, and one for whom democracy is an obstacle

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