95% done with a remix - what next?

[C hristian]

So, working on completing a remix (not a ReEdit) and I think it's 95% done. What eludes me however, is what are the final details that come into play for finishing a project. All the crossing of the t's and dotting of the i's. Mastering? que?

I know I probably have to smooth out volume levels of different, individual tracks before the entire project gets mixed down, but are wwe just talking volume envelopes and that's it?

Using Sonar.

thanks. C

[C hristian]

Want to know how you all finish up your projects. what steps you take, personally, to finish the whole thing up.

thanks.

[DJ Keith Porter]

Originally posted by C hristian:
Want to know how you all finish up your projects. what steps you take, personally, to finish the whole thing up.

thanks. Time and other peoples obsevations.

Sonar works wonders for me in PC land!

What are you re-mixing?
Holla!

[C hristian]

GK and Pips....but I'm talking about what finishing touches do you do regularly?

technically speaking...

how to master, etc

[ November 10, 2003, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: C hristian ]

[upliftdisco365]

Levels.

Old levels trick. Find your desired levels from your monitors. Now, turn off your monitors and put on your headphones and turn down the sound to the point where it's barely audible. Sit very still and listen. Turning down the sounds that stand out at this volume will almost always lead to very clear and even levels.

Compression/Limiting.

Once your song is done, go for a little compression, limiting. This gives your project a contained, "studio-ed" feel, rather than sounding like a guy who slapped a bunch of sounds together in his basement/bedrooom.

Play your mastered copy on different systems.

Try your living room system, your car and maybe a friend's house. Try your mom or your Grandma's crappy system, then try a really hi-end set at a local audio gear retailer. Are all of the instruments clear and present? Are your effects and panning sitting comfortably in your mix?

Hope this helps.

[alex zen]

i would and have sent it out to get mastered by a professional. it cost, if i remember correctly, $250 for an ep. unless you really know what you're doing, and i don't, you can really fu ck it up: too much compression, too much bass, frequencies al over the place, etc. there are all kinds of things that need to be taken into consideration when mastering for vinyl and if you want the best result you should pay.

[DJ Keith Porter]

Originally posted by C hristian:
GK and Pips....but I'm talking about what finishing touches do you do regularly?

technically speaking...

how to master, etc I do a couple of things.
1. I listen to it through the PC system and then do as much tweeking as I can. This tweeking without a mixing board.

Having a mixing board you wont have to do step 2 because the tweeking is most accurate.

2. I make a CD copy and listen to its volume levels of each instrument. I then play it on my amplified system.

3. Next I bring to to someone to listen too so, I can get there critic. I find listening to my own stuff too much doesn't help me 200%. I have to have another opinion!

4. After doing steps 1,2& 3 I do what else is necessary as mentioned in steps above.

5. (optional)I may bring it into sound forge for editing but, that depends on if I made more that one file, Long version, short version radio etc..

After that I file copyright papers. Then the shoping spree begins.

I am doing something wrong?

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by DJ Keith Porter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C hristian:
GK and Pips....but I'm talking about what finishing touches do you do regularly?

technically speaking...

how to master, etc I do a couple of things.
1. I listen to it through the PC system and then do as much tweeking as I can. This tweeking without a mixing board.

Having a mixing board you wont have to do step 2 because the tweeking is most accurate.

2. I make a CD copy and listen to its volume levels of each instrument. I then play it on my amplified system.

3. Next I bring to to someone to listen too so, I can get there critic. I find listening to my own stuff too much doesn't help me 200%. I have to have another opinion!

4. After doing steps 1,2& 3 I do what else is necessary as mentioned in steps above.

5. (optional)I may bring it into sound forge for editing but, that depends on if I made more that one file, Long version, short version radio etc..

After that I file copyright papers. Then the shoping spree begins.

I am doing something wrong? </font>[/QUOTE]You could make certain the original work was licensed and all the rights management is in order before you spend money. Lawsuits are always nasty affairs.

[DJ Keith Porter]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ Keith Porter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C hristian:
GK and Pips....but I'm talking about what finishing touches do you do regularly?

technically speaking...

how to master, etc I do a couple of things.
1. I listen to it through the PC system and then do as much tweeking as I can. This tweeking without a mixing board.

Having a mixing board you wont have to do step 2 because the tweeking is most accurate.

2. I make a CD copy and listen to its volume levels of each instrument. I then play it on my amplified system.

3. Next I bring to to someone to listen too so, I can get there critic. I find listening to my own stuff too much doesn't help me 200%. I have to have another opinion!

4. After doing steps 1,2& 3 I do what else is necessary as mentioned in steps above.

5. (optional)I may bring it into sound forge for editing but, that depends on if I made more that one file, Long version, short version radio etc..

After that I file copyright papers. Then the shoping spree begins.

I am doing something wrong? </font>[/QUOTE]You could make certain the original work was licensed and all the rights management is in order before you spend money. Lawsuits are always nasty affairs. </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks Danny.
All my work is original. No samples what so ever! If there are any samples in my work its samples of something I did.
Thats why I don't copy right till the end of the project.

Huuuumm, with keeping and open mind maybe I didn't understand your comment, or did I?

Then again we are talking about re-mixing!
I was really answering his question about mastering his track.

Alright Im the Jackass!

[DJ Keith Porter]

Originally posted by upliftdisco365:
Levels.

Old levels trick. Find your desired levels from your monitors. Now, turn off your monitors and put on your headphones and turn down the sound to the point where it's barely audible. Sit very still and listen. Turning down the sounds that stand out at this volume will almost always lead to very clear and even levels.

Compression/Limiting.

Once your song is done, go for a little compression, limiting. This gives your project a contained, "studio-ed" feel, rather than sounding like a guy who slapped a bunch of sounds together in his basement/bedrooom.

Play your mastered copy on different systems.

Try your living room system, your car and maybe a friend's house. Try your mom or your Grandma's crappy system, then try a really hi-end set at a local audio gear retailer. Are all of the instruments clear and present? Are your effects and panning sitting comfortably in your mix?

Hope this helps. Ahhhhh GOD has spoken!
Yeah John, I forgot to mention the head phones!
Great points.. hail.gif

[Bold Soul]

Keith - I took "remix" to mean a remix of a previously released track.

[upliftdisco365]

Originally posted by DJ Keith Porter:
Ahhhhh GOD has spoken! ...Now Keith....

[DJ Keith Porter]

Originally posted by Danny Gardner:
Keith - I took "remix" to mean a remix of a previously released track. I understand!
Like I said I was only trying to answer his question technically.
I hope I helped?

What you say C?

[Monny JcIntosh]

Another tip, not that I usually get that far, is to make sure your EQing is always subtractive. Don't go trying to add what isn't there in the first place. You're aiming to fit each instrument into it's own band, so dial out competing frequencies. Anything substantial should have been completed before you start mastering.

[DJ Keith Porter]

Originally posted by upliftdisco365:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ Keith Porter:
Ahhhhh GOD has spoken! ...Now Keith.... </font>[/QUOTE].....Now GOD.... http://deephousepage.com/smilies/wavey.gif

[DJ Keith Porter]

Originally posted by Jonny McIntosh:
Another tip, not that I usually get that far, is to make sure your EQing is always subtractive. Don't go trying to add what isn't there in the first place. You're aiming to fit each instrument into it's own band, so dial out competing frequencies. Anything substantial should have been completed before you start mastering. I used to make that mistake when i first started.
I use me like Dyam, why the bas is so distorted blah blah blah!

[Tony Cano]

Originally posted by C hristian:
So, working on completing a remix (not a ReEdit) and I think it's 95% done. What eludes me however, is what are the final details that come into play for finishing a project. All the crossing of the t's and dotting of the i's. Mastering? que?

I know I probably have to smooth out volume levels of different, individual tracks before the entire project gets mixed down, but are wwe just talking volume envelopes and that's it?

Using Sonar.

thanks. C why are you doing this?

you said it best "I have no $ to invest in you and your music, right now. "

[C hristian]

i say any info about after the main work of production is done is really what i'm after. for remixes or whatever. So , it's all good info here.


Johnny, please explain what you mean. i dont get it. sounds important though.


Tony - what can i say to this? I'm working on my work! I hope to get some compensation for it in the end! You saying I need money down right away for something? If so, what would that be for, that i don't already have in terms of production? Money for a professional to master? then if I have an idea, and I have product, I may be able to find an investor.

Money doesn't come in until you front something. I'm working on that something.

[C hristian]

right, I'm not record shopping right now.
unemployed will do that to you.

[SMOOTH87]

Originally posted by DJ Keith Porter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by upliftdisco365:
Levels.

Old levels trick. Find your desired levels from your monitors. Now, turn off your monitors and put on your headphones and turn down the sound to the point where it's barely audible. Sit very still and listen. Turning down the sounds that stand out at this volume will almost always lead to very clear and even levels.

Compression/Limiting.

Once your song is done, go for a little compression, limiting. This gives your project a contained, "studio-ed" feel, rather than sounding like a guy who slapped a bunch of sounds together in his basement/bedrooom.

Play your mastered copy on different systems.

Try your living room system, your car and maybe a friend's house. Try your mom or your Grandma's crappy system, then try a really hi-end set at a local audio gear retailer. Are all of the instruments clear and present? Are your effects and panning sitting comfortably in your mix?

Hope this helps. Ahhhhh GOD has spoken!
Yeah John, I forgot to mention the head phones!
Great points.. hail.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Agreed very good points!! To add I always say leave the eqing of the mid and the highs to the proffesionals. When you send your track to get mastered if it has some extreme mids or highs there is not much the mastering engineer can do.

[C hristian]

so, i don't worry about mastering is the concensus?

but how about normalizing? or is that with mastering?

[Tony Cano]

Originally posted by C hristian:
right, I'm not record shopping right now.
unemployed will do that to you. Christian:

I am very sorry to hear you are un-employed.

Many of my co-workers have been affected as a result of the poor economy (6900 over the past year). It was a real slap in the face to wake up and hear that my compnay was slashing another 2600 jobs on the radio.

Your comments I quoted from you is reality. I go record shopping frequently only to see record store shelves empty without customers and little quality product on the shelves.

I guess my message is don't invest too much time and money in hopes of selling music because the economy is bad.

[C hristian]

i hear ya. but i'm looking for a light at the end of the tunnel.

and i have a lot of creative time on my hands these days...
when i'm not running in circles.

i won't invest tooooooo much time. but just enough to make smoething happen. Deal?

thanks for the advice though. good to hear someone speaking the truth.

[Tony Cano]

deal. smile.gif

to answer your question technical question, i leave my final work untouched (un-processed) and have a professional go in and tweak each and every track. they hear stuff that I don't normally hear.

[Monny JcIntosh]

Originally posted by C hristian:
Johnny, please explain what you mean. i dont get it. sounds important though.
Say you have a ten part arrangement. To avoid confusion in your mix, you will want each part to occupy its own sonic space. First off, as an example, an easy mistake to make might be to have a kick drum and a bassline share the same frequency and it will sound very muddy. That kind of thing you need to fix at the arrangement stage: maybe choose a different kick, remove the sub bass from the bassline.

Once they are relatively separate you will want to dial out those remaining, competing niggly frequencies. Your kick sample might not be all that clean, and have the remnants of a snare which competes with a mid range part. Use subtractive EQing to remove these frequencies and get everything to sit nicely.

One thing you don't want to be doing at the mastering stage is boosting certain frequencies in, say, the bassline. If your bass part is lacking, go back and reprogram the synth patch or something. This holds for all the parts, of course. The basic idea is to make sure your mixing board (it might be virtual) never has its EQs into the pluses. The point of EQing at this stage isn't basic sound design, but getting those parts to fit together.

Of course the rules are there to be broken, but it helped me enormously to use this as a rule of thumb.

[Edited for clarity.]

[ November 10, 2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Jonny McIntosh ]

[DeesKo]

First and foremost, there are people in the music industry who are stars in their own rights because of their ability to perform these two functions. There's a reason for that, that reason being that most people can't do it well on their own.

Now, my suggestions/input :

Final mixdown comes before mastering. Final mixdown is where you work to get everything even, using the tips above that everyone has already mentioned. Mastering comes after that. IMHO unless you're a pro or someone who has a REALLY GOOD EAR, you should sit in and learn & help work on final mixdowns, but until you've got experience and first hand knowledge passed on by a pro, don't go at it alone unless you want your product to sound like you went at it alone.

Now, regarding mastering :

In the case of a single song, mastering is basically the art of getting that song's overall level pumped up to its peak output. Maximizing loudness. There are plug in effects modules you can use for this purpose but you have to be careful not to overdo it, the beauty of mastering is in finding that line JUST below the point of degredation.

Now, when it comes to an EP, LP or full length CD, mastering can include helping with the layout of the songs (which goes 1st, 2nd etc) to help the overall flow of the CD as well as adjusting each song to achieve an overall even level so that one song isn't up HERE and the next song isn't way down here.

Final mixdown is completely different and comes before mastering. Again, IMHO if you do not have a really clean "ear" you should have a professional studio engineer do the final mixdown.

You need to be able to differentiate between frequencies, be able to hear that things are muddy, that things are overlapping, that your kicks and bassline are cancelling each other out in certain frequencies, that your panning isn't even, etc. If you don't have that type of ear, pay someone to do it. Even if you think you MIGHT have that type of ear, I'd still suggest paying a professional to do it at least the first few times. Sit in with them and listen/watch and learn because you're going to find things you never knew existed. That's why some people are genuises and get paid top dollar to be studio engineers. The details brought out by a good studio engineer are priceless.

If you do have that kind of ear then you should be able to listen to your product and hear what's wrong and what needs to be adjusted. It might take you some time to figure out how to accomplish it with the tools you own but the most important part is being able to identify what needs to be changed, not how.

Now, if you insist on working on it, here's some basics I've used aside from the suggestions above:

Watch your overall and channel level meters

For final mixdown you don't want it to be bouncing into the red constantly. You want clarity and crisp, clean sound more than maximum volume at this point.

If you see a specific sound/track bouncing into the red all of the time, you need to either lower that sound, re-engineer/EQ that sound or add some compression on that sound so that whatever is peaking and making it hit red stops.

If you do that and then it sits too far back in the mix, you need to lower/adjust everything else so that it sits right in the mix again. Again, this part isn't about maximum output, but clarity.
You don't want to take everything WAY down, but if you need to lower everything 3db to make it all crisp and clean, you can get that 3db back at mastering. If you do into mastering with distortion you're going to come out of mastering with distortion, only louder.

adjust your "appeared presence"

If something is "loud" enough but just doesn't feel like its got enough "presence" in the mix, you can try panning it out and "faking" a stereo effect and it can help make something seem "fuller" without it being any louder db wise. You do this by duplicating that track and then panning each track to the left and right by some independant percentage based on your ear, and then adjusting both tracks levels so that the end result db-wise equals the original solo track.

ie you have a bassline, its track 2 in Sonar and you want to try the panning idea.

Solo track 2 and note what db level you're at on your MASTER output when just track 2 is playing.

Duplicate that track, now its both track 2 and 3.

Take track 2 and pan it 40% to the left, take track 3 and pan it 40% to the right.

Solo track 2 and track 3 and check your MASTER output. Adjust track 2 and 3 evenly until the combination of track 2 & 3 is at the same db level you had when it was just track 2.

Un-solo track 2 & 3 and see if it sits right in the mix, adjust as needed.



Peace

Rob

[upliftdisco365]

Johnny M and Deesko raise excellen points.

Certain sounds tuned to the same frequency can definitely take away from those sounds.

When I first started working on projects alone, I would draw a horizonal line, longways on a sheet of paper. Then I'd make an arching half-circle from Point A to Point B above that line. At this point, all of my instruments would be muted. One by one, I'd release each sound and pick a place on my arc where I wanted that sound to sit in my mix. Then I'd pan those sounds accordingly. I'd also use this guide as my reference for checking the frequencies of like-sounds: Kick/Bass, Tams/Shakers/Hats, etc. EQ-ing sounds to the same frequency has a way of ruining them sometimes, but using like effects at similar settings on like-sounds can be just as bad.

Lots of new producers/arrangers discover Exciter, for instance, and they go Exciter mad. I was guilty of this one. EVERYTHING gets exciter and your track sounds like there's someone scratching on chalkboards in the background. House shouldn't make your goddamn teeth hurt.

I think sitting in with someone and watching them set levels and EQ prior to mastering and then seeing how they master is an excellent suggestion.

[ November 10, 2003, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: upliftdisco365 ]

[djyoavb]

i try to brake laws frequently but there is one law that's very important- try to have most or even all the parts that r in the range of bass frequencies to be MONO... other wise it'll be very hard to press that shit on vinyl.
mono option is an important and useable option as much as the stereo or panning option. try to experiment, maybe this time get the snare abit to the right and keep the hi hats in the center... or something like that... experimentation leads to beautifull things smile.gif