Mike Allen.........Remember him ..UK Peeps

[Rob.J]

He does not seem get any mention, I recall some of my earliest great hip hop tapes were taped from this geezers radio shows.....He may have looked like someones dad....but he was on it...............there would be no westwood without Mike Allen

cheers

rob

[mr startist]

Westwood was doing his thing waaaaayyyyyy before Mike Allen....I think Mike Allen is now on talk radio.

[Topester]

Startist is right - I think Mike Allen must have been given his Capital show 'cos of the number of people tuning in to Westwood on LWR, Matermind of Solar and so on... however I was certainly a fully paid up member of Allen's Army... even at the time I thought his voice and presentation style was a bit odd though - like having Alan Partridge doing a junglist show or something! But full respect to the dad like Mike Allen - from 84-86 or so he was the man and I'm sure that late night show laid the foundations for Westwood's Capital Rap Show.

Nice to chew the fat with you and Greg over this very topic at Lowlife Rob!

[jeremy]

He was actually doing talk shows by day while hosting the hip hop show by night.

My illusions were shattered when he appeared as the host of UK Fresh 86, in a Duran Duran suit (although I always wanted one of those, but there's a time and a place!).

[greg wilson]

Mike Allen is nowadays a presenter at Saga Radio: www.saga.co.uk/sagaradio/presenters/presenter_mikeallen.asp (http://www.saga.co.uk/sagaradio/presenters/presenter_mikeallen.asp)

Tim Westwood was undoubtedly on the scene before Mike Allen (who only returned to the UK in '84). I remember Tim from when he used to warm up for one of the big London DJ's of the time, Steve Walsh.

However, as far as the London Electro scene was concerned, it wasn't really until Mike Allen's show kicked-off that it had a focal point, Capital being a massive commercial station. As such, he's fondly remembered by the Old Skool Electroheads in the South.

I think that Topester calls it right when he points out that Mike Allen's show laid the foundations for Westwood's Capital Rap show.

As well as Tim Westwood and Mastermind, a further London pioneer is Steve Devonne, who was on the pirate station Invicta.

[greg wilson]

Originally posted by Topester:

Nice to chew the fat with you and Greg over this very topic at Lowlife Rob! It as a mad weekend for me, met so many people from DHP and other forums I use. Hadn't realised you'd been deejaying earlier Topester, sorry I missed it, sounds like what you played would have been right up my street. Anyway, good to make contact with you, Rob, and others.

[Topester]

Steve Devonne - yes, I remember now... his show didn't start until midnight or something unreasonable like that to a 14 year old, as did westwood's when he started.

Greg, lovely to meet you, what was your website address you were telling me about again?

[Topester]

effing ace... here's the great man's biog from the Saga site.. mind you looking at his poto I reckon Westwood might have a few years on him yet... arf arf... I'm gonna email him today!

Biography - Mike Allen

You've probably heard Mike before on a few different stations. His warm, deep and friendly voice is instantly recognisable. In addition to being the breakfast voice of Saga Radio, he's the late night phone-in voice of London's LBC talk station. His quick wit, sense of fun and easy style have made him an instant hit on Saga Radio.

Before this Mike was already household name on Capital Radio. Mike's radio travels have also taken him Down under to stations in Adelaide, Sydney and Melbourne.

Away from the microphone you can find Mike by his favourite river-bank with rod in hand. He's a keen angler, and the winding streams of Hampshire are amongst his much-loved haunts.

"There's nothing like the peace and quiet of the countryside and the challenge of catching the "big one" to sharpen the mind." Says Mike.

"When my numbers come up on the lottery, I'm planning an extended fishing world tour. I'm dreaming of a trip to Argentina or even Chile to catch golden dorado.

Listen to Mike on the Breakfast Show from 6am until 10am each weekday.

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by greg wilson:
Steve Walsh.

my brother seen him a few times when he was alive.


The same guy that ruined "i found love" with that caister style bullshit - "you what - you what you what you what you what"
graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[ November 05, 2003, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

[greg wilson]

Originally posted by Topester:
Greg, lovely to meet you, what was your website address you were telling me about again? Hi Topester, it's: www.electrofunkroots.co.uk (http://www.electrofunkroots.co.uk)

Still early days, but beginning to build it up. The intention is that it will eventually become an in-depth Electro-Funk resource, covering all aspects of the era.

[mr startist]

Originally posted by Martin Red:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by greg wilson:
Steve Walsh.

The same guy that ruined "i found love" with that caister style bullshit - "you what - you what you what you what you what"
graemlins/jpshakehead.gif </font>[/QUOTE]zzzzzzz...you have a problem with anything from London.

Who remembers Spats down Oxford Street? Westwood used to wear those thick NHS glasses back then. Now that was a dance worth remembering.

[greg wilson]

Originally posted by mr startist:
Who remembers Spats down Oxford Street? Westwood used to wear those thick NHS glasses back then. Now that was a dance worth remembering. Yeah, it was a big venue for the London breakers in '84.

[Topester]

To be fair to Martin Steve Walsh was a hero to most but he never meant sh*t to me and I'm as soft a shandy drinking southerner as you could ever hope to meet

[soulfulgrooves]

Hi
This is my first posting on here after seeing this interesting thread on Tim Westwood and especially the mention of Steve Devonne who was one of my favourite djs at the time on radio Invicta.
I can remember Westwood on LWR back in the early part of 1984 when they went 24/7 and he did a 3 hour show on a Wednesday night and I seem to recall him mixing up the new soul and boogie of that period with the electro rap.
Steve Devonne use to live along my road back in about 1987 and then he moved away although a friend if mine did see him about a month ago in the Brixton area and had a brief chat. I don’t think he really follows the music these days from what I can tell.
Mike Allen use to be great also during 84 and 85 but I also use to like him back in 1979 when he did the top 20 disco chart on Capital radio between midnight and 2 am on a Sunday morning.

Paul

[greg wilson]

Originally posted by soulfulgrooves:
Hi
This is my first posting on here after seeing this interesting thread on Tim Westwood and especially the mention of Steve Devonne who was one of my favourite djs at the time on radio Invicta.
I can remember Westwood on LWR back in the early part of 1984 when they went 24/7 and he did a 3 hour show on a Wednesday night and I seem to recall him mixing up the new soul and boogie of that period with the electro rap.
Steve Devonne use to live along my road back in about 1987 and then he moved away although a friend if mine did see him about a month ago in the Brixton area and had a brief chat. I don’t think he really follows the music these days from what I can tell.
Mike Allen use to be great also during 84 and 85 but I also use to like him back in 1979 when he did the top 20 disco chart on Capital radio between midnight and 2 am on a Sunday morning.

Paul Hi soulfulgrooves: Been trying to get back in touch with Steve Devonne, if your friend bumps into him again ask him to mention my name and feel free to pass on my e-mail (or get Stevie's for me). I've probably been to his place on the road where you used to live (was it in Brixton), as the last time I remember seeing Stevie was during the late 80's (he was working as a dispatch rider at the time).

I recently posted some stuff about him at DJ History. I'll just cut 'n' paste:

I've only been talking to Bill recently about Steve Devonne. If you go to the interviews section you'll find that Giles Peterson cites Steve as an influence: 'To me DJs like Steve Devonne and Trevor Shakes, those kind of DJs, but particularly Steve, because it was just dirty funk. He’d play the brand new Cameo record ahead of Robbie Vincent'.

I got to know Steve via Nicky Flavell, a DJ I met out in Norway in 1978, when we were both working in the same small town. Steve was called Stevie Knox back then, and was another 'International DJ' working mainly around Scananavia (he spoke fluent Danish). He was big mates with Nicky.

A couple of years later Nicky landed the residency at Wigan Pier, and it was largely down to him that I took over when he went to open the Pier's sister club, which was Legend, in 1980.

Stevie returned to the UK, and as you pointed out, and became a major player with early pirate radio in London

One of the last times I remember seeing Stevie was in the late 80's (I'd love to hook up with him again if anyone knows his whereabouts). A group of us dressed up as policemen for a video by Kiss AMC (who I then managed and produced). It was around the time that Public Enemy appeared on stage with security stood in front of them, so we did this type of thing as police while Kiss AMC (and the Rap Assassins) pretended to be performing at a gig. When the cameras eventually pulled back we were at an OAP's tea-dance in Brixton! It was great fun. During the shoot, Stevie and our designer, Brian Cannon (who'd go on to do the sleeves for Oasis and The Verve amongst others) thought it would be a laugh to go walking around Brixton in their uniforms! This came to an abrupt halt when some real Old Bill saw them and gave them a bad time, threatening to arrest them for impersonating police officers, which was particularly funny seeing Stevie had long dreads coming out from underneath his helmet!

I've just remembered that the impersonating a police officer story actually made one of the South London papers. It's no doubt buried with all the Rap Assassins press stuff in a box somewhere.

BTW soulfulgrooves, welcome to DHP.

[soulfulgrooves]

Hi Greg
Yes that's right he was a dispatch rider although the road he lived in where I also lived was in Peckham but it might of only been for a few years around 1987 when he lived here.
I dont think my friend took any contact details from him but I will ask him.

Paul

[greg wilson]

Originally posted by soulfulgrooves:
Hi Greg
Yes that's right he was a dispatch rider although the road he lived in where I also lived was in Peckham but it might of only been for a few years around 1987 when he lived here.
I dont think my friend took any contact details from him but I will ask him.

Paul Sorry, my mistake, it was Peckham. Nicky, who I mentioned above was also a dispatch rider at the same time. You might have seen him with Stevie (a thin white guy).

Recently I got chatting to an ex-pat Brixtonite in Liverpool, who told me that he used to hang out with a DJ, listening to music in his flat, and that his musical education was down to this guy. It turned out to be Stevie!

[Dj Alex]

Wow schooldays revival going on.
I remember hazily when he would get guests like Jazzy jeff up on the station to do his thing. When Jazzy was transforming. I also remember him hosting an all dayer in Paddington - anyone remember that I think it was 86 ?. M :D ike was cool whatever he was doing.

Great radio personality !.


Peace Alex.

[Mah'chew]

Prehaps me and Martin can start a 'Jive Turkey' thread for all the Cloggies on DHP :D

And expect something on Karl Kingston from Jolyon :D

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by mr startist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Martin Red:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by greg wilson:
Steve Walsh.

The same guy that ruined "i found love" with that caister style bullshit - "you what - you what you what you what you what"
graemlins/jpshakehead.gif </font>[/QUOTE]zzzzzzz...you have a problem with anything from London.
</font>[/QUOTE]You have a problem with anything that isn't London, your name suits you Mr Startist, I have seen you talking shit to other people on this board.


Fact is Steve made a Black Lace version ! I can't help it if you used to love wearing fancy dress and ponsing up and down in a line formation.

"You wot , you wot you wot you wot you wot I found love"

Yeah startist wicked version ! graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

Do something usefull - Go read the Black History Month thread and find Greg's or Terry Christians comments on Trevor Nelson's show.I recall you didn't like me saying anything that wasn't pro Trev around the time Soul nation show was on.


Also, details on the article in it's very own Thread - http://deephousepage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=032811#000000

[ November 06, 2003, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

[rbRupert]

Originally posted by jeremy:
He was actually doing talk shows by day while hosting the hip hop show by night.

My illusions were shattered when he appeared as the host of UK Fresh 86, in a Duran Duran suit (although I always wanted one of those, but there's a time and a place!). do u remember him getting booed also ?

[mr startist]

Originally posted by Martin Red:

I have seen you talking shit to other people on this board.ahhhh that's nice...you remember all my posts. Who was I talking shit to?



"You wot , you wot you wot you wot you wot I found love"

Yeah startist wicked version !
wicked?!! Do you come from Surrey?


Do something usefull - Go read the Black History Month threadhahahahahaha how ironic. This has to be your best line EVER!!


and find Greg's or Terry Christians comments on Trevor Nelson's show.I recall you didn't like me saying anything that wasn't pro Trev around the time Soul nation show was on.I didn't & don't care what you say about Trevor. You even cursed a good friend of mine & I wasn't bothered. I just found your comments on "uk garage" very ignorant & decided to show you for the fraud you are. It was obvious you knew nothing about the clubs and the scene...let's not do this again. If I remember correctly you made a complete fool of yourself.

[ November 06, 2003, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: mr startist ]

[Mah'chew]

We're not starting this Shanks & Bigfoot hating again are we?

The Startist has spoken and wants a rewind at 2.10 am London Time - now that's UK Garridge :D

[Jolyon]

Winston & Parrot graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[Martin Red]

graemlins/thumbsup.gif Winston and Parrot ?, are they from Neasden ;)


Originally posted by mr startist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Martin Red: I have seen you talking shit to other people on this board.ahhhh that's nice...you remember all my posts. Who was I talking shit to? </font>[/QUOTE]Have you got Parkinsons....



"You wot , you wot you wot you wot you wot I found love"

Yeah startist wicked version !
wicked?!! "Do you come from Surrey?"

No!

Say something related to the version in question …- it was me slating the "U wot" version that got Mr' Startist ranting that I was anti London - , do you like the "you wot" version over the Fatback version – take your time…, if you prefer the Fatback version you should take back your comments and agree that you are a startist looking for trouble... **** off to Ayia Napa.com !

I don't dislike London I just can't stand London fools like yourself init.

People like you are the cocky fools that give Londoners a bad name. Representing – you are not.



and find Greg's or Terry Christians comments on Trevor Nelson's show.I recall you didn't like me saying anything that wasn't pro Trev around the time Soul nation show was on.I just found your comments on "uk garage" very ignorant & decided to show you for the fraud you are. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Your calling me a fraud that’s as rich as the Blazin Squad.

FRAUD ! WHO'S THE ONE HIDING BEHIND FALSE NAME , HI I AM MARTIN, AND I AM PRESENT IN THE REAL WORLD.


"GARAGE" = THE NAME OF A USA CLUB


UK WISE
THIS MUSIC MOSTLY SUCKS ELEPHANT GIS FROM DEAD ELEPHANT SCROTUMS AND THEN USES A STRAW TO BLOW IT UP DENNIS THATCHERS DEAD ASS !

UK (GARAGE)
=
UK (LEGENDARY AMERICAN CLUB)

:rolleyes:
SCRATCHES HEAD ! "UK NAPA" is what it should have been called, or UK TWICE AS NICE INIT !


Originally posted by mr startist:
[QUOTE]It was obvious you knew nothing about the clubs and the scene...let's not do this again. If I remember correctly you made a complete fool of yourself. Yeah , like Goldie is from Clapham and Roni Size is from Elephant and Castle.

Urm from what I remember you looked as silly as your mate on Trevor Nelson , Moschino init nawmean, and the crowd goes **** off startist rewind buuuuuuuurrrrrrr and the crowd goes **** of startist, all that pollution is messing up your memory.


“Club Scene” (you mean)….circling around twats in Moschino shirts going to Napa to live it large … yep ! that wasn’t something I really wanted to be a part of – so cool !


Go and read Greg Wilson’s / comments if you didn’t like mine ! or go argue with the article published in “ THE GUARDIAN “ no no - I mean why bother …..
….READING and LEARNING why don’t you just think of a witty come back instead then you can confirm with DHP that you are a fool.


If your gonna bother coming back at me then be a bit more specific with your argument , and perhaps use some examples rather than just going for generalised quips !


“Wigan is that Camden”

graemlins/lol.gif

Go read the articles and LEARN something instead of parading around like a ponsey Moschino shirt wearing parrot boy, OK !

[ November 07, 2003, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

[mr startist]

once again, more ignorant cliche's. You live in the past my friend, clinging to the "Great American Dream". Is that for brownie points or do you actually believe the rubbish you type?

[Martin Red]

READ BELOW STARSHIT.

[ November 07, 2003, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by mr startist:
once again, more ignorant cliche's. You live in the past my friend, clinging to the "Great American Dream". Is that for brownie points or do you actually believe the rubbish you type? graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl5.gif graemlins/eusa_dance.gif graemlins/conf44.gif :rolleyes:



Originally posted by Martin Red:
If your gonna bother coming back at me then be a bit more specific with your argument , and perhaps use some examples rather than just going for generalised quips !

Go read the articles and LEARN something
Originally posted by danny webb:
terry Christian writes some sense inthe Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,988395,00.html) , funnily he agrees with you Martin...
http://deephousepage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=032811#000000


Wigan is that Camden

British soul did not start in London - whatever Trevor Nelson might think, says Terry Christian

Tuesday July 1, 2003
The Guardian

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/arts/2003/07/01/0TerryChristianandTrevor.jpg

Trevor Nelson (above) and Terry Christian

Trevor Nelson has something to tell us. "It was in London," he proclaims on Channel 4's Soul Nation website, "where British soul was truly born." How remarkable. I had thought that, before 1978, all the big-selling, hit-making soul groups in the UK - with the exception of Hot Chocolate - had come from outside London. But in Nelson's personal history of British soul, none of those big-selling soul bands from outside London is even mentioned.

In the first programme of his three-part series, Nelson spent 10 minutes covering Wigan Casino and even visited a northern soul night in Wigan to discuss its legacy. (Needless to say, northern soul is very much in vogue in London today.) He more or less summed the Wigan scene up as a bunch of white blokes listening to old records. And then London came to the rescue.

Viewers weren't told that the first all-black British soul group to reach number one in the UK charts was Manchester's Sweet Sensation, with a song called Sad Sweet Dreamer in September 1974. Nor that Liverpool's the Real Thing, who had a huge hit in June 1976 with You to Me Are Everything, were the biggest-selling British black soul group of the 1970s and 1980s. We didn't hear how the Average White Band from Scotland went to number one in the US Billboard chart in 1975 with Pick Up the Pieces, the fourth biggest-selling single of that year in America, nor that their album was number one in the US charts at the same time.

In Nelson's defence, this is a "personal journey". So the second episode, dealing with the 1980s, offered a lot of nonsense about the Wag club and Sade and the Face magazine and people going to London clubs in fancy dress. In fact, the Wag club was modelled on Manchester's Berlin Club.

After travelling to Wigan for the first show and wondering what everyone was doing listening to a lot of old records , Nelson spent the second show telling us about warehouse parties in London where he listened to a lot of not-very-rare funk tracks from the 1970s. Many of these were first played at northern soul all-nighters (Gil Scott-Heron's The Bottle, for instance, and Donny Hathaway's The Ghetto). Most of them could be bought at Yanks records in Manchester for 29p (something a lot of the London lads knew only too well: they used to come up to buy loads of cheap stuff and flog it in London as rare groove). Nelson reflected on his DJ mentor Norman Jay playing Jean Knight's 1968 soul standard, Mr Big Stuff, claiming that this was a track "no one else was playing". No one, that is, apart from just about every wedding-party DJ I've ever come across.

Nelson even seemed to miss out on the big London tunes of the early 1980s. He doesn't mention Junior Giscombe, the first black British artist to appear on the US television show Soul Train with his huge hit Mama Used to Say; nor David Grant's band Linx, Freeze or Central Line. The London Nelson inhabited seems a pretty static, retro-obsessed place.

Then he tells us about Jazzie B and the Soul II Soul nights. Vocalist Caron Wheeler claims that: "Soul II Soul were hip-hop soul before Mary J Blige." Interesting. What Nelson doesn't seem to know is that Soul II Soul's "unique" sound was uncannily similar to the Wild Bunch, and in particular Smith and Mighty, from mid-1980s Bristol. Coincidentally, Nellee Hooper, the engineer with Smith and Mighty and a Bristol lad, produced Soul II Soul's album.

In Soul Nation, we clearly have a programme that can't see beyond the North Circular - that is happy to present vox pops from people who went to the Wag club but not interview such influential and innovative DJs on the national soul scene as Richard Searling, Hewan Clarke or Colin Curtis. It is so insular in its outlook that it completely ignores soul music in the rest of Britain. What next? Nelson discovers that early man came from Camden?

Soul Nation isn't the only culprit in this ministry of misinformation. Ten years ago, BBC2 broadcast a strand on the history of black British R&B. This, too, skipped all references to the many hit-making northern bands.

Could I make a documentary on punk and say that it was truly born in Manchester? Could I bang on for three one-hour episodes about the Buzzcocks, the Fall and Slaughter and the Dogs and just not mention the Sex Pistols and the Clash? If anyone criticised it, I could say it was a personal journey, and if anyone asked why I had made a statement such as, "Manchester was where punk was born", I could reply: "It's great, everyone is talking about the programme and we've had complaints, but loads of people have been calling up to say how fantastic the show was." Because that is just the response I had from Channel 4 and Diverse when I asked them that question.

On Sunday, Nelson was heard on his Radio 1 show pleading for "the anoraks" to back off, pointing out that Soul Nation is just a little introduction to soul music in Britain. The trouble is that it is an extremely poorly researched introduction with a good presenter, some decent footage and a series of lame excuses. Trevor Nelson's Soul Nation? Trevor Nelson's London mates, more like.


-----------------------------------------------

Quoting this from another thread, as it ties in.


Originally posted by greg wilson:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Martin Red:
[qb] Perhaps by posting this from "The Guardian" much less flack than if a dhp member said even something even vaguely similar ;)

(aticle above)


Hi Martin, I wrote a piece myself on the back of all this:

SOUL CONDEMNATION

Trevor Nelson's three-part Channel 4 documentary, 'Soul Nation', has received heavy criticism, with the main complaints regarding poor research and London bias. The controversy surrounded the first two programmes in particular, and their portrayal of the development of British black music during the 70's and 80's.

The series prompted Terry Christian, ex-presenter of 'The Word', C4's infamous 90's music show, to write an article in The Guardian, entitled 'Wigan? Is That In Camden?'. The Manchester-born presenter and DJ (who currently hosts his own ITV show, 'Turn On Terry') pulled no punches in his assessment of 'Soul Nation'.

Christian quite rightly pointed out that bands like Manchester's Sweet Sensation and Liverpool's The Real Thing, who both topped the UK chart (in 1974 and 1976 respectively, opening the doors for other black performers in the UK), had been completely omitted from this 'history'. Instead, viewers who didn't know any better were led to believe that London's Hi-Tension, who arrived on the scene in '78, were at the vanguard (being proclaimed on the programme as 'the Godfathers of British Soul' is something I'm sure the band themselves are somewhat embarrassed by).

There was no mention of the origins of the British Soul scene back in the 60's; the first programme started at Wigan Casino (which opened in 1973), before moving South (where it would remain for the rest of the series) to the Soul Mafia strongholds of Canvey Island and Caister. For those of you who are interested in digging deeper I'd highly recommend Mike Ritson and Stuart Russell's excellent book, 'The In Crowd' (Bee Cool Publishing 1999).

Had the series been called something like 'Trevor Nelson's Soul Odyssey' it wouldn't have been so bad (in this way it would have been viewed as his own subjective account), but if you're going to call something 'Soul Nation', then it has to be inclusive of the wider British experience. With the exception of 12 minutes on Northern Soul at the start of the first programme, the series was completely dominated by events in and around London. No wonder there's been such an outcry.

This was perfectly illustrated when the story reached Soul II Soul, and their 'unique' sound. Christian pointed out that this was "uncannily similar to the Wild Bunch, and in particular Smith And Mighty, from mid-80's Bristol". How the Bristol scene, which, of course, included the hugely influential Massive Attack (emerging from The Wild Bunch), was totally ignored, is almost criminal! Reminding a not so clever Trevor that he hadn't done his homework, Christian continued; "Coincidently, Nellee Hooper, the engineer with Smith And Mighty and a Bristol lad, produced Soul II Soul's album".

I was especially interested to see how he handled the impact of the Electro-Funk / Hip Hop scene. I hadn't expected him to go into it in any real depth, but I was extremely surprised, and obviously disappointed, when he bypassed it completely. To say that the Sound Systems played only Reggae or Soul and Rare Grooves is to forget all about people like the Mastermind Roadshow (Herbie from Mastermind mixed Morgan Khan's massively influential Electro albums) and, once again, Bristol's Wild Bunch (who issued a retrospective compilation just last year, called 'The Story Of A Sound System' on the Strut label). By the time the programme got to Soul II Soul (described as the first Hip Hop / Soul group) there'd been no explanation whatsoever as to where this Hip Hop influence had come from in the first place!

Electro and Hip Hop would prove to be a major inspiration for Jungle, Drum And Bass, and subsequently UK Garage (plus the more recent Urban flavours), which were discussed later in the series, but once again the connection was missing. Instead, we're led to believe that all this is in some way related to acts like Imagination, Loose Ends, Sade and Simply Red, rather than the collision of cultures (West Indian and Hip Hop) that was taking shape on the underground black scenes in cities like Manchester, Bristol, Birmingham, Nottingham, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield and London, while Trevor Nelson was trying, unsuccessfully, to get into Soho's ultra-trendy Wag club.

I don't want to kick someone when they're down, but 'Soul Nation' delivered a kick in the teeth for so many people who played their parts, big and small, in changing British popular culture, but were denied a voice. Rather than dismissing his critics as 'anoraks', Trevor Nelson should hold his hands up and admit to some big mistakes. That would be the honourable thing to do.

What makes the series particularly damaging is that the younger generation will take 'Soul Nation' at face value, regarding it as a definitive account, and unless Channel 4 makes another series of programmes, which are this time properly researched and expertly presented, the history of the British black music scene will have been done a huge disservice.

I'm sure that when the people behind 'Soul Nation' began to put the idea together it was with the best of intentions, but these programmes are supposed to enlighten, rather than mislead us, and it shouldn't have taken someone like Terry Christian, after the event, to point out what must have been glaringly obvious to at least some of the people involved in the production.

The sad thing is that a rare opportunity to truly reflect our national love affair with Soul music, resulting in a wealth of black British culture (North, South, East and West), has been wasted. Let's hope it won't be too long before the record is set straight.

Copyright - Greg Wilson July 2003 c


http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,988395,00.html

Feedback to 'Soul Nation' on BBC website:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/urban/reviews/nelson_soulnation.shtml

Greg Wilson's article 'Electro-Funk - What Did It All Mean?'
http://www.daveyd.com/articleelectrofunkroots.html

[mr startist]

Originally posted by Martin Red:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Martin Red:

graemlins/lol.gif

If your gonna bother coming back at me then be a bit more specific with your argument , and perhaps use some examples rather than just going for generalised quips !

Go read the articles and LEARN something
Originally posted by danny webb:
terry Christian writes some sense inthe Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,988395,00.html) , funnily he agrees with you Martin...
http://deephousepage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=032811#000000 </font>[/QUOTE]oh shit, you're right. Terry Christian disliked the programme, just like you did. Sorry, you're right, I'm just an ignorant Londoner who has no clue. Thanks for making it clearer. From now on I'll only accept what the media (and you) says...but wasn't our discussion about your ignorance of "uk garage"?

[ November 07, 2003, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: mr startist ]

[Martin Red]

Hey ! you mustn't have read the whole article, he names quite a few bands TREVOR MISSED !, take another look, you may learn summat init nawmean.


Proper Bo hey Startist

http://www.davidtuck.mcmail.com/CraigHEADSlowres.JPG

Rewind"

Inter selcta

Hyper, hyper, hyper that's what we make ya
Time to mash up the speaker
Craig David, Artful Dodger
Inter selecta [x4]

Making moves yeah on the dance floor
Got our groove on dancing yeah real hardcore
From the front to the back that's where I was at
You know, you know the Artful Dodger do it like that
With Craig David all over your...
DJ it's all up to you
When the crowd go wild
Tell me watcha gonna do

Re-e-wind when the crowd say bo selecta
Re-e-e-e-e-e-wind when the crowd say bo selecta-ta
Re-e-wind when the crowd say bo selecta
Re-e-e-e-e-e-wind when the crowd say bo, bo, bo
Re-e-wind
When the crowd say bo selecta
Re-e-e-e-e-wind whent he crowd say bo selecta-ta
Re-re-e-wind when the crowd say bo selecta
Re-e-e-e-e-e-wind
This goes out to all the DJs

Eh, yeah
Eh, eh, yeah (yeah) [x3]
Eh, yeah
Eh (yeah)

Re-wind selecta
Rewind se-lec-ta
Re-wind selecta
Sel-ecta
Re-wind selecta -ta
Re-wind se-lec-ta
Rewind selcta-ta
Sel-ecta
Re-wind
Re-wind selecta

Re-e-wind
Re-wind selecta
Re-wind
Re-wind selecta
Re-e-wind
Re-e-wind-ta

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by mr startist:
"uk garage"? init, garridge, ooh I really feel like I missed out.

MC Vapour

"Chapter 3 , the 3rd bredder, from the UK Terror,
no matter whether your clever, we still be crackin' the leather,
on the whip, while your locked in the cellar,
you told me you were heavyweight, your as light as a feather,
whatever!, mate, your a shit tale teller,
if i see you i'll switch, and im not a nice fella,
your last release was anything but a seller,
and i read your Mag interview, shame its in Bella,
you smeller, your breaths not green it's yellow,
your microphone fears the word accapella,
chapter 3 keep spittin' forever, we're never ever gonna sever a letter,
thats why we're spittin' better,
im gonna run down & gun down rappers when i come down,
i aint gonna finish til the suns down,
bun down green til my lungs drown,
battle in a tongue war, win a thumb war with my thumbs down!
i got a key, im gonna lock it,
when i battle with a gun, i never drop it,
until i force you to pop it,
stop it, the lyrical miracle rap rocket,
my tongue earns cash, i dont do brock pocket,
you with the mic there, drop it,
you tried bus' a lyric but you made a real nightmare of it,
d'ya write that lyric? or did ya bite bare of it?
i'll creep into your house and ignite bare of it!!!!! "


:rolleyes:

[mr startist]

I read both articles fully & to be totally honest, I really don't care that things were missed out. It was a tv programme on channel 4. Music lovers who want to know the facts will hunt them out...everybody else just saw it as light entertainment.

Once again you go back to acting foolish because you know that have been proved wrong. Our discussion was about "uk garage" & you're ignorance.

You're view on "uk garage" is the same as a techno lover saying house music is about the white middle class getting e'd up at the weekend...but you know what, I really don't care about your view & have wasted too much time chatting about this rubbish. Let's just agree that I'm a better person than you & that you're an ignorant northerner who knows nothing about the world after 1985.

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by mr startist:
"uk garage" & you're ignorance.

Hey lets all make some Garridge lyrics

"uk garage" & you're ignorance"
We need to keep the piece in our pants
cus i'm hung like da elephants
balls are that big doctor gotta lance

gonna ride in a London cab
me girlfriend ain't yet been shot , stupid slag
re - wind booooooooo boo boo
ooh gotta go fancy a poo
Turtles head reaching
Reaching for my turtle head
Don't make me pull it out
Bo ! your rather be right said Fred
My shit is 9MM and stinks till ya dead
Oh, did I mention my names clarence and I drive a Saab , probably not because Saab doesn't rhyme with much expect Barge.

Or you could leave it to the "professionals" like

SOoooooooo Solid Idiots (read below)


Oi, ain’t that mega
Wait wait, that’s mega, in a TT,
Roof down, wait, with a ****ing afro comb in his head
Wait a minute, from down my ends, blinging,
He’s ****ing dizzy blud, why me?
****ing dizzy blud

[Mega]

What did I do to deserve this shit?
Why? I need to know but I know
They think we’ve lost it
They think we ain’t clocking the streets no more
But I can hear you whispering,
I can hear you speaking
I can hear you, my souls can hear you.
But anyone that knows me,
You know I was born to do this.
This is my life, and still you’re ****ing with me
Telling you niggas, talking bout’ you wanna blaze me.
I am prepared for you,
So niggas wanna **** with me or
Check one of my chicks when there not with me or
Talk about my shit when I go on a tour or
**** with my clique, yeh I target score board
Wait there’s more or
Walk on bye why? Hits for the clips when they Rollin’ by
Chop up my shit prepare to die die
Hate all my cliques till we’re going sky high
I tell you why,
So solid, yeh we’re hotting to this, but don’t miss
Check this and we’re top of the list
So solid, yeh we’re starting the shit, we said we did it
We’re done and you’re full of it yo
Scuse love back in channel club, you never wanna give me a hug
Cus’ im at the bar
Listen, there you were, wanna give me some more
But back in the day you never ****ing see what I saw
The house cost 3 years two million g’s
The next time you’re comparing me,
Check what you never did, believe in me.
**** you and your 2 faced crew,
And tonight you support everything we do
Check 1 that’s right we ain’t begging for none
So solid crew there’re on radio 1
Check 2 yo, see its midnight too
But you’re there and we can talk to the girls and screw
Check 3, that’s right you won’t see me,
But you will hear my voice, anywhere u will see
Check 4, right, I will rap the door, bring more
Don’t fink Mega ain’t been there before.
Check 5, yo, who’s up in the snow?

[Chorus]

Ride wid us, ride ride [x8]

[Tiger S]

Do you wanna ride wit us,
We won’t stop till you’ve had enough.
Do you wanna ride wit us,
Show, show, show us nuff love.
Do you wanna cruise wit us
We won’t stop till you’ve had enough
Do you wanna ride wid us,
So solid’s bound to take over. [x2]

[Mega]

It’s getting closer now,
People are saying that Mega is there, but,
Mega it’s over now.
Cus’ I’ve got a lot of shit to risk, you hear this?
Can you hear me now?
Cus’ when I smoked before, you ignored, people would hear me out
Never feel the same thing
Why the **** you wanna try your luck and move to me,
It’s so easy, to pull out your gat,
Rat a tat tat tat
Lay 3 niggas on their back
You do that ****in easy
The hard part, don’t whine like a dark part
Don’t pull out your gat fast; don’t drive in an A-class
Your too ****in fast you don’t know, take it easy
Life is loveable,
I picture this scene, I’m comfortable
Now let me tell you something, no 2 ways about it
Tell them, so….

[Chorus x8]

[Tiger S]

Do you wanna ride wit us,
We won’t stop till you’ve had enough.
Do you wanna ride wit us,
Show, show, show us nuff love.
Do you wanna cruise wit us
We won’t stop till you’ve had enough
Do you wanna ride wid us,
So solid’s bound to take over. [x2]

The teaching is over so tell me what your gonna do,
Get with So Solid, or if not good luck to you.

[Topester]

get a room you two... all this regional backbiting is so dripping with barely repressed erotic urges...

on thr other hand - yeah, Jive Turkey was fantastic.. only went once but Voodoo Ray and Ten City playing in one room... hard jazz and tunes like Ingram 'Mi Sabrina Tequana' in the other, very serious dancing all over... Sheffield was definitely running it for underground clubs around '88-'90

[Martin Red]

21 seconds Startist, if only you could last that long

Or

If only that shite song lasted 21 seconds, if only !

So Solid Crew init
"21 Seconds"

Ha, ha, ha, whatcha laughin at?

[MEGAMAN:]
Megaman up first
21 seconds oh shit
I ain't got no time to smoke this
Hold this, yo g
Go by in a blacked out TT
Megaman can bring two gats easy
Seen in stores an mister wanna jack me, jack me
Say come step to me,
The last thing that you saw was icy
Bitch
Say niggas wanna see nigga, get rich
But niggas don't really want nigga to be rich
Say niggas wanna see nigga, get rich
But niggas don't really want nigga to be rich

[ASHER D:]
Asher D's never fading
Second in stay song till I'm bathin
B - A to the D's never phasing
I wanna tell my enemies if we're racing
So Solid they're amazing
In few g's we're bound to be laced in
Addicted to this life that we're tasting
You blame me for the life you been wasting?
You hating, girl there's money to be making
Act a MC a never brakein
Smoking mac g's like a Jamaican
So when you lookin at me you start takin
Creating

[MAC:]
Thug of the family, who could I be?
M wit the A to the C that's me
Thug of the family, who could I be?
M wit the A to the C that's me
M - A - C still thuggin
Shot Benz in a rave while I'm clubbin
Ladies come around an they buggin
Make g's like if I was robbin
Player haters they are
Watching an they're plottin an they're watchin my scars
Watching an they're plottin an they're watchin my stops
Watching an they're plottin an they're watchin my crops
Never gonna stop
Never gonna stop

[chorus]

[KAISH:]
I got 21 seconds to flow
I got 21 seconds to go
Cause if you like me let me know
Let me in the studio
I got 21 seconds before I got to go
Did you see me on the video, oh no
Did you see me on the video, oh no
So if you like me let me know
Let me in the studio
I got 21 seconds before I got to go
Did you see me on the video, oh no
Did you see me on the video, oh no
So if you like me let me know
Let me in the studio
I got 21 seconds before I got to go

21 seconds, t - t - t
21 seconds, t - t - t
21 seconds, t - t - t
21 seconds, t - t - t

[LISA MAFFIA:]
I got 21 seconds to Pass the mic
I got 21 seconds to say what I gotta say
You Wont Like me anyway
But I won't hesitate
So Solid Crew is here to stay
We're gonna right to the top of it
Cause I, a- a -a -a, twenty
Cause I, a ?a ?a ?a , twenty
Cause I, only got 21 seconds

[FACE:]
Some a them are slippin a
Some a them a grudge me a
So Solid vampire
Seen me on the tele ah
face is getting popular
Ha, what?
Someone chat shitina
No disrespect an your dress is my tickina
Raise up the deadina
Worship the devil
Red is my best colour
So Solid we are players, instigators
Gimmie a girl an make her famous
I send her back to you, she get in papers
21 seconds to get papers

[SKAT D:]
Who wants to please set your mind free
Cause I got the key
Turn em off an all my pain can u feel me
Trendsetter change like the weather her
21 secs, the more better
I, you, don't know
You, you, don't know
So Solid Crew we run the show
An if you don't know please lemme know
Please lemme know
Scatt D no snitch
No need to go to the feds to get rich
I jus lay on the track
An inside the hit
An get paid all day long

[Chorus]

[HARVEY:]
Every lyric I do
Every lyric I say
Every lyric I rock
Every lyric I play
Every lyric I make
Every lyric I break
There's always a snake
Wanna get in my gate, way
Through the tunnel
21 seconds an you're in trouble
You better move on the double
Wanna double my cash
Wanna double my dough
21 seconds Harvey's gonna flow
an if you step on my toe
we're still gonna grow
When I'm on a high
When I'm on a low
When I'm on a rave
When I'm on a roll
Hype it up
Wooh

[ROMEO:]
Turn up the base line
I got 21 seconds to chat this Rhyme in time
First of all I'm gonna big up the ladies
Lookin slender an fine
Mmm, mine
Don't gimmie no deadline
Gimmie some more time
Gimmie 29, seconds to chat this Rhyme
Other MC's, wait in line
How old am i 21,
I got 21 seconds till my vocals done
2 multiplied by 10, plus 1
Romeo done.

[Chorus]

[Mah'chew]

Originally posted by Topester:
get a room you two... all this regional backbiting is so dripping with barely repressed erotic urges...

on thr other hand - yeah, Jive Turkey was fantastic.. only went once but Voodoo Ray and Ten City playing in one room... hard jazz and tunes like Ingram 'Mi Sabrina Tequana' in the other, very serious dancing all over... Sheffield was definitely running it for underground clubs around '88-'90 And Ten City remixing Funkie Worm..

Serious dancing & fashions at Jive Turkey.

Sheffield est tres chic

FON, Designers Republic, Warp, Joe Cocker (& Jarvis), Tony Currie (Essex Boy), Human League, Seven Hills (like Rome) and Stones Bitter (Heaven 17)
:D