Why the ACC will work for Cuse

[Fletch]

Alright, call me a big east sellout, but let's be real. Times are changing. But the good in this outweighs the bad.

Yes, I'm gonna miss the SU-Gtown rivalry. And yes, I'm gonna miss, more than any, the storied Big East Tournament. I'm also gonna miss the brutal, physical nature of Big East Basketball.

But here's the deal. A chance to improve Cuse's football program (It needs it!). Big East Football (outside of Miami and VTech) is straight Wack (financially, image), and is even killing the basketball part! And let's be real. Miami's gone! Mike Tranghese can have all the meetings in the Florida Keys he wants. And with the Canes gone, there goes the BCS automatic bid ($13 million). Also, with too many BE schools not having football (ie, St John's, Gtown), the BE is being driven into an abyss.

But more important, here's a chance to have Maryland, Duke and Carolina hoops to come to the Dome, fill 33,000 fans straight off the top and create bigger rivalries with one of those teams than Gtown, St John's and Seton hall put together. And here's a chance for Coach K, Roy Rogers and Gary Gnew to get some 2-3 zone medicine.

I love the history of the Big East. Ewing, Pearl, DC, Mullin, the Tournament (the Garden), Thompson, Rollie, EZ Ed, etc. But let's face it. The Big East as we know it will be no more. Sad to say, but it's time to adjust to a change.

Yes, I know travel is gonna be a *****, but....

I know I'll hear it from TAC and Mike Barnes on this one.

[ May 15, 2003, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: einnod23 ]

[Ish]

The Big East without Syracuse seems strange to me.

Why would syracuse want to leave a conference where they have so much history, so many rivalries...

Isn't there anything to be said anymore for tradition?

You put Duke in the Big East and lets see how their regular season turns out.

graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[TAC]

Originally posted by einnod23:
I know I'll hear it from TAC and Mike Barnes on this one. Not much to say. The analysis is on point. But did you check su's site with respect to this. Boeheim is saying that he doesn't see the benefits to SU baskeball of joining the ACC (don't quote me on this).

Its going to be interesting...

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Ish:
The Big East without Syracuse seems strange to me.

Why would syracuse want to leave a conference where they have so much history, so many rivalries...

Isn't there anything to be said anymore for tradition?

You put Duke in the Big East and lets see how their regular season turns out.

graemlins/jpshakehead.gif Yes, a Big East without Cuse is strange. Very strange. But college athletics is changing. And let's be real. The Big East is not the Big East of the 1980s. It will never go back to that. College football rules, and BE Football right now is not pullin' the weight (and Miami's gone). There's gonna be some type of change.

[Ish]

Oh, and by the way, you are a big-east sellout!!!!

AR15firing.gif

graemlins/nono.gif

graemlins/tongueout.gif

[Fletch]

Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by einnod23:
I know I'll hear it from TAC and Mike Barnes on this one. Not much to say. The analysis is on point. But did you check su's site with respect to this. Boeheim is saying that he doesn't see the benefits to SU baskeball of joining the ACC (don't quote me on this).

Its going to be interesting... </font>[/QUOTE]SU's site isn't saying anything on it. I knew they won't, until something's a done deal. The ACC voted 7-2 to give invitations to three Big East schools. Miami is top. Then comes either Cuse, BC or VTech. I think Cuse will be number 2, and the ACC will fight over number 3. (the Virginia Legislature has a bill pending, to ask for VTech).

NC and Duke were the two dissenters. But notice, though, how the basketball coaches (K, Williams, Williams and Boeheim) have virtually no say in this. This is all about $30+ million of football money.

[ May 15, 2003, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: einnod23 ]

[mhd]

i remember the cuse/g'town rivalry BEFORE there ever was a Big East. sorry to see em go but Tranghese is a very smart guy, he will figure out a way to bounce back.

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Ish:
Oh, and by the way, you are a big-east sellout!!!!

AR15firing.gif

graemlins/nono.gif

graemlins/tongueout.gif You're welcome! Let the ACC count their blessings. They don't have to see Carmello. :D

By the way, don't be surprised if Pitt goes to the Big Ten.

[Sharp Eye Washington]

I heard once Miami & Syracuse bolts for the ACC all non-football Big East teams will be dropped from the conference. Georgetown, Seton Hall, St Johns...CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT... As you said einnod 23, football pays the mortgage.

[mhd]

if its about money, it makes perfect sense. cause there is no reason that they cannot continue to schedule the traditional rivalries

[TAC]

Originally posted by einnod23:
SU's site isn't saying anything on it. I knew they won't, until something's a done deal. The ACC voted 7-2 to give invitations to three Big East schools. Miami is top. Then comes either Cuse, BC or VTech. I think Cuse will be number 2, and the ACC will fight over number 3. (the Virginia Legislature has a bill pending, to ask for VTech).or was it the espn site. I dug around, and they had Boeheim quoted somewhere.

[mhd]

Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by einnod23:
SU's site isn't saying anything on it. I knew they won't, until something's a done deal. The ACC voted 7-2 to give invitations to three Big East schools. Miami is top. Then comes either Cuse, BC or VTech. I think Cuse will be number 2, and the ACC will fight over number 3. (the Virginia Legislature has a bill pending, to ask for VTech).or was it the espn site. I dug around, and they had Boeheim quoted somewhere. </font>[/QUOTE]Virginia Gov. Warner, who can actually ball, is lobbying hard for VA Tech to get that spot, and they have a UVA guy, who used to work at VA Tech, pushing hard too. The minimum vote is 7-2

[Fletch]

Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by einnod23:
SU's site isn't saying anything on it. I knew they won't, until something's a done deal. The ACC voted 7-2 to give invitations to three Big East schools. Miami is top. Then comes either Cuse, BC or VTech. I think Cuse will be number 2, and the ACC will fight over number 3. (the Virginia Legislature has a bill pending, to ask for VTech).or was it the espn site. I dug around, and they had Boeheim quoted somewhere. </font>[/QUOTE]It's everywhere. espn, cbs.sporstline. Also, check syracuse.com, and check their sports section. Also check syracuse.com's forum section. Very hot topic.

[Ish]

Originally posted by einnod23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ish:
Oh, and by the way, you are a big-east sellout!!!!

AR15firing.gif

graemlins/nono.gif

graemlins/tongueout.gif You're welcome! Let the ACC count their blessings. They don't have to see Carmello. :D

By the way, don't be surprised if Pitt goes to the Big Ten. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, this all is just crazy sounding to me. I can deal with change usually, but this is a little too wierd..

Pitt versus Michigan and Illinois could be aight, but still, I like the big east, I like the style of play, I like the programs, I like big east basketball.

[Fletch]

Only two brothas on Syracuse's Board of Trustees (Billy Hunter and Donovan McNabb). Got a feeling they will vote YES to the ACC.

Dave Bing's a Trustee Emeritus (retired member). Don't know if he has a vote anymore.

[ May 15, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: einnod23 ]

[Mike Barnes]

Well, I truely did not want to say anything about the so called Bumrush for money(Going after the University of Miami)by the ACC, But, Maybe if Mike Tranghese would have just left the schools already in the Big East intact(Without Miami,Notre Dame,Virgina Tech,etc), All of this madness(Stepping to schools for the money) would not have happened. 12 years ago Mike Trangese brought Miami into the Big East Conference for the Football money that Miami makes, But, In doing this(Bringing Miami into the Big East), Mike Trangese seriously threatened the integrity of the Big East, Because Dave Gavitt(Former Commissoner of the Big East/And Former Head Coach of Providence University in the 70's)
Founded the Big East Conference for Basketball, And to me, The Big East should have stayed a Basketball Conference(Yeah cats will say times change and you have to swing with what's making more money), But adding schools like Notre Dame, Virgina Tech, Miami, Only setup something like this(Cold Bumrush in effect)to happen sooner or later. I'm surprised it took so long for the ACC to step to Miami on the low, Since all of the schools in the ACC are in the same region as Miami(South). But, Mike Trangese and Assistant Commissioner of the Big East Stan Wilcox(Former Notre Dame cat from the Late 70's/Early 80's), Have alot of work to do to save the Big East Conference right about now.
Later
Mike Barnes

P.S. Like anything in life, Your going to have your down periods, But, With the right kind of leadership, The Big East, I truley feel would still be a High powered Conference for Basketball without the Football schools like Miami,Notre Dame,Virginia Tech being down(The money will always be there on the low), Things do come back around after awhile, No one stays on top forever, Maybe, With a little bit of patience, The Big East could have/will be just as strong as it was in 1979 when Dave Gavitt Founded it.

[Ish]

Boeheim against moving to ACC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press


NEW YORK -- Jim Boeheim is a self-described "status quo guy," so it stands to reason that the Syracuse basketball coach is less than thrilled about a possible move from the Big East Conference to the ACC.

"I don't like change too much," Boeheim said Wednesday. "I think this change could be bad. What we have is pretty good. What's going to happen in the next couple of weeks will probably change the landscape of Eastern seaboard football and basketball radically."

Even with a national championship in his hip pocket, Boeheim knows that football is the dynamic driving this potential move of three Big East schools -- Miami, Syracuse and Boston College or Virginia Tech -- to the ACC.

"It's about money, power and football in any order," he said. "It's football. It's always football. Football drives everything.

"I don't see Miami and Syracuse benefiting that much by going. But if Miami goes and we don't, that's a major problem. Miami is the No. 1 football program in the country. Miami is in the driver's seat and always has been. We're making another decision based on football."

Boeheim and Geno Auriemma, who led Connecticut to a second straight women's NCAA championship, were honored by the New York Athletic Club and received the Winged Foot Award to mark their titles.

Boeheim's concern was that Syracuse would be locked into a basketball division with schools like Clemson, Georgia Tech and Florida State.

"We'd be playing at Florida State on a Monday, back to Syracuse for Thursday, back to Georgia Tech for Saturday," he said. "You can't win with that kind of travel schedule.

"If we're in a basketball conference playing teams in the deep South, I don't see how that is an advantage to us in the short term or the long term. Where do they play the tournament every year? North Carolina."

Boeheim would rather be playing traditional rivals like Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's, who would be left behind in the Big East.

"I've been in Syracuse all my life," he said. "We played those schools and Pitt and West Virginia before the Big East. It's what I've done for 41 years. Now to change, it makes no sense to me," he said.

"I am the basketball coach. They have to decide what's best for the university. I hope they hold off for about five years. Then I can watch somebody else go through it."

[Fletch]

Mike,

You got to remember, the Big East needed football in the early 90s to stay afloat. The Big East would have went under 11 years ago had it stayed basketball only. Remember, those schools were called Eastern Independents (SU, BC, Vtech, Rutgers, Temple, Pitt, West Virginia, and Penn State). They played each other, but were not officialy a conference.

The Eastern Independents wanted Penn State to join them in the new Big East Football Conference. Paterno and friends wanted two extra home games as part of the package. The rest of the schools rejected. So, PSU said "see ya", and went to the Big Ten. As an alternative, the Big East admitted Miami in 1991.

Big East Basketball alone would not have kept the conference afloat. To many expenses. As someone said, football pays the mortgage. Peace.

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Kinda reminds me when the South West Conference was broken up about 10 years ago and those teams went into the SEC and the Big 12 conferences. The Big East can't stay afloat with crap teams such as Rutgers and Temple always being at the bottom of the pond.

Remember that Syracuse and Penn State had a great game going usually around the beginning of the College Football season what was killed off in the early nineties. That can generate some serious cash for years to come.

I was watching ESPN yesterday and someone suggested that Notre Dame join the Big East, for it already had a good rivalry with Boston College and it wouldn't be a bad idea to see Notre Dame play Miami, Pitt, and VTech while keeping their TV contract with NBC.


I think that there will be more consolidation of many conferences, mainly the ones with the biggest money generators, in years to come. This will allow conferences and schools to control their destiny when it comes to the BCS system, TV contracts, and contracts with companies such as Nike and Reebok.

Peace

[Fletch]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Kinda reminds me when the South West Conference was broken up about 10 years ago and those teams went into the SEC and the Big 12 conferences. The Big East can't stay afloat with crap teams such as Rutgers and Temple always being at the bottom of the pond.
The Southwest Conference was broken up for two reasons:
1) The Big 8 (especially Oklahoma) was raiding the state of Texas for it's top recruits.
2) Corruption. That conference was blatantly shady. And SMU's Death Penalty was the nail in the coffin.

[Mike Barnes]

Say einnod23, You made some excellent points my man in reference to why it would be a very good move for Miami and Syracuse,Boston College and Virginia Tech to step to the ACC, But, Quiet as its kept, Look at the game of Basketball as a whole(High School,Street,College, Pro), The value and substance(The craft)of the game is crazy weak right about now, You have the NBA changing rules every year or so to make it easier for the many cats who CAN'T PLAY,(And alot of cats still can't come off with the many rule changes), You have College administrators hiring cats who either are crazy illegal with theirs, or just cannot coach Basketball or be disciplined enough to care about the Student/Athletes development in school or both,(The state of Sports on all levels is crazy weak), Now, You have established conferences(ACC,Big 10)going after schools for the sake of making even more money(LOL), And the media cats like Dick Vitale,Billy Packer, Always look to blame the young kids who sometimes make unwise decisions, But will not focus on the under the table dealings that college Sports has always been about(Why is that/KRS-One), Let's get this right out in the open, The NCAA is/and will always be crazy ILLEGAL, And have brought down the purity of not only College Basketball, But, college Football also, Just for the sake of getting paid(Like the NCAA doesn't have enough money already), There's nothing separating the NCAA from Drug Dealing cats like Nicky Barnes(No relation),AZ,Alpo,Rich Porter(New York Cats), Or any drug dealing cats making long money(Except for killing cats to get theirs), And that goes for the conferences also(Under the table cats/All about getting paid/But front like there Educators), Who front like they really care about the young kids who go to or play for there Institution(College). Before the Big East was organized in 1979 by Dave Gavitt, There was a League called the ECAC(East Coast/Atlantic Coast)which consisted of alot of the teams that eventually were a part of the Big East, And those schools played each other twice a year, But, Dave Gavitt had a vision to have a conference(Big East)that would have teams from different major cities on the East Coast like New York, Philadelphia,Washington,DC,Etc, That would have the same impact as the ECAC, But more power in reference to having a National impact which challenged the other conferences like the ACC,Big Ten,Big Eight,Pac Ten,(But mostly the ACC). The ACC getting Miami or whatever schools that want to go there will not benefit more basketball wise to me(Know Football that's another story), The ACC has always been the conference everyone looked up to since the 1960's Basketball wise, Will the additions of the other schools make a difference in recruiting, Maybe(Only time will tell/Ten City), But nowdays, You don't have to go to a name school or play in a Big conference to make it to the League(NBA), So High School cats will still go to the Georgetown's,St John's,Villanova's,Pittsburgh,Seton Halls,etc,(With or without the Big East Conference), But i will close with this, Watchout for what the state of College atheletics Basketball,Football,Baseball,Etc), Will look like in the year 2005 money(LOL).
Later
Mike Barnes

[corwin]

I just heard VA Tech was not invited to join. And BC was? Whaaaa???

Anybody know why?

[Fletch]

Originally posted by corwin:
I just heard VA Tech was not invited to join. And BC was? Whaaaa???

Anybody know why? The ACC totally wants the Northeast Market. Given that, VTech would make no sense. The Boston market, in the ACC's opinion, outweighs the VTech-Virginia rivalry. This is going to be interesting over the weekend.

[Mike Barnes]

Say Corwin,einnod23, As quiet as its kept(Colonel Abrams), The reason why Boston College was accepted into the ACC and Virginia Tech was not is
Boston College has a good Basketball Program and a very good Football program which means more money for the ACC, Compared to Virginia Tech, Which has a very good Football program and a wack Basketball Program(Virginia Tech Administrators recently cancelled/Fired The head Basketball coach Ricky Stokes about a month ago, Cats probably remember Ricky Stokes from his playing days with the University of Virginia in the early 80's, Playing in the backcourt with Othell Wilson and Ralph Sampson), If Virginia Tech had a balance of Good Basketball and Football programs, You definitely know the time(LOL).
Later
Mike Barnes

[corwin]

Damn, that's ****ed up for UConn. They've got big plans for the football program (new stadium this season). And they've been perennial b-ball contenders since Calhoun's tenure. I'd hate to see the Big East end up like the Sun Belt conference.

Guess they (the BE) will be circling ConferenceUSA like vultures.