Going out on a limb with this question..... [Archive]

Friday

05-09-2003, 09:10 AM

Why is it that so many people want so many changes to take place in this world but are so rigid when it comes to changing themselves? hmmmm......? :rolleyes:

nev m

05-09-2003, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
Why is it that so many people want so many changes to take place in this world but are so rigid when it comes to changing themselves? hmmmm......? :rolleyes: Errrrrrrrrrrrm aaaaaaah! um errrrrrr! yeah! Good question!

RX

05-09-2003, 09:14 AM

most of the population has attention-deficit syndrome - they can go from person to person trying to change them, but for them to work on one person - themselves - takes too much patience...

JMJ

05-09-2003, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
most of the population has attention-deficit syndrome - they can go from person to person trying to change them, but for them to work on one person - themselves - takes too much patience... Could you repeat that?? I missed it the first time.....JMJ biggrinangel.gif

GROOVE VICTIM

05-09-2003, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
Why is it that so many people want so many changes to take place in this world but are so rigid when it comes to changing themselves? hmmmm......? :rolleyes: Many people, especially in this counrtry are't taught to take responsiblity for their own actions that my cause harm to other people. As a result, stupidity runs rampant throughout the world. Where there's no admittance to responsiblility, there's denial and pain.

Peace

Friday

05-09-2003, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
most of the population has attention-deficit syndrome - they can go from person to person trying to change them, but for them to work on one person - themselves - takes too much patience... So what you are saying is that to work on oneself entails too much patience. Would it not be worth the effort?

GROOVE VICTIM

05-09-2003, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
most of the population has attention-deficit syndrome - they can go from person to person trying to change them, but for them to work on one person - themselves - takes too much patience... So what you are saying is that to work on oneself entails too much patience. Would it not be worth the effort? [/QUOTE]If people were able to work on ones self, then there wouldn't be much bickering, jealousy, and envy towards one another.

Life is what you make it.

Peace

RX

05-09-2003, 09:22 AM

of course it's worth the effort, but is that really why most people do ANYTHING these days? it's easier just to say, "all people are this or that" without digging deep within your psyche to find out why their actions cause certain responses within yourself...

if you change your environment to support who you are, you can be whatever you like - even if it's horribly terrible...

[ May 09, 2003, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Ms Rickey X ]

Friday

05-09-2003, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
most of the population has attention-deficit syndrome - they can go from person to person trying to change them, but for them to work on one person - themselves - takes too much patience... So what you are saying is that to work on oneself entails too much patience. Would it not be worth the effort? [/QUOTE]If people were able to work on ones self, then there wouldn't be much bickering, jealousy, and envy towards one another.

Life is what you make it.

Peace [/QUOTE]Yes, I do agree with this.

Friday

05-09-2003, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
it's easier just to say, "all people are this or that" without digging deep within your psyche to find out why their actions cause certain responses within yourself...
Yes, this is true which brings me back to my question, why are we so rigid in changing? Why is it so difficult?

richierich

05-09-2003, 09:33 AM

It's easier when you don't actually have to do anything or take inventory of self.

GROOVE VICTIM

05-09-2003, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:

if you change your environment to support who you are, you can be whatever you like - even if it's horribly terrible... I agree with you 110 % Rickey!!!!!! People complain about where they live and they can't find jobs or a companion. Well, pack up your things and move or do some travelling. Stop staying couped up in your house all the time and go see the world for what it's worth!!!!

Peace

MYOR

05-09-2003, 09:35 AM

The first step to anything is admitting it...

And people will deny any faults within themselves....once they admit to whatever fault they have it easier to try and change it.. but this also takes a while, its not easy to change yourself over night...

Friday

05-09-2003, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:

if you change your environment to support who you are, you can be whatever you like - even if it's horribly terrible... I agree with you 110 % Rickey!!!!!! People complain about where they live and they can't find jobs or a companion. Well, pack up your things and move or do some travelling. Stop staying couped up in your house all the time and go see the world for what it's worth!!!!

Peace [/QUOTE]This could be true, however, even if you did move to a new environment, you would still be taking all your "baggage" (mindset) with you and I don't mean suitcases. ;)

Would this not be true?

darrow

05-09-2003, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
Why is it that so many people want so many changes to take place in this world but are so rigid when it comes to changing themselves? hmmmm......? :rolleyes: Some slightly rambling thoughts...

I think people expect and want things to change around them and sometimes within them but expecting/wanting change is quite a different notion from actually enacting change.

I think many people fall down when it comes to actually being an agent for change regardless of whether the change is to occur in the external environment or the internal. I often WANT something to change, but finding the time, energy, and resources to do something seems to be hard much of the time and slow-going most of the time.

I think it is easy for people to look outside of themselves and see fault MUCH easier than it is to see fault within. And that isn't as much of a criticism as it is an observation. The outward perspectives seem much broader than the ones internal sometimes. How can people change themselves if it is difficult to get a perspective? It seems like there needs to be more of an awareness of Self before you can start making real changes.

I think the phenomena of changing the world to fit our selves is one that has gone on probably for hundreds of centuries. On a broad level, humans seem to try and shape the world to meet their own needs more so than adapting (changing)to the world around them. I often wonder if we are truly the proverbial square peg trying to fit into a round hole.

JMJ

05-09-2003, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:

if you change your environment to support who you are, you can be whatever you like - even if it's horribly terrible... I agree with you 110 % Rickey!!!!!! People complain about where they live and they can't find jobs or a companion. Well, pack up your things and move or do some travelling. Stop staying couped up in your house all the time and go see the world for what it's worth!!!!

Peace [/QUOTE]This could be true, however, even if you did move to a new environment, you would still be taking all your "baggage" (mindset) with you and I don't mean suitcases. ;)

Would this not be true? [/QUOTE]Very true. You can change your surroundings, your job, your friends, etc., but you still carry the baggage with you, and eventually the "real" you is going to emerge, regardless of how hard you attempt to re-invent yourself, because all you've done is attempted to escape the real problem, which is yourself. Hope you're having a great day.....JMJ graemlins/remybussi.gif

RX

05-09-2003, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:

if you change your environment to support who you are, you can be whatever you like - even if it's horribly terrible... I agree with you 110 % Rickey!!!!!! People complain about where they live and they can't find jobs or a companion. Well, pack up your things and move or do some travelling. Stop staying couped up in your house all the time and go see the world for what it's worth!!!!

Peace [/QUOTE]well, see, groove - i don't condone changing environments because, if there's one thing i've learned from being house in chi, that's
"you can't hide from yourself...
everywhere you go, there you are..."

lack of patience leads us to quick-fixes, like changing enviornments...instead of taking the long, winding road of self-improvement, which can be painful once you start digging up what's really at the root of "you"...

i figure i have the rest of my life to work on my most cherished project..."me"...

GROOVE VICTIM

05-09-2003, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:

if you change your environment to support who you are, you can be whatever you like - even if it's horribly terrible... I agree with you 110 % Rickey!!!!!! People complain about where they live and they can't find jobs or a companion. Well, pack up your things and move or do some travelling. Stop staying couped up in your house all the time and go see the world for what it's worth!!!!

Peace [/QUOTE]This could be true, however, even if you did move to a new environment, you would still be taking all your "baggage" (mindset) with you and I don't mean suitcases. ;)

Would this not be true? [/QUOTE]The way I see it, it's all about having access to positive outside influences. Being around positive people who don't complain and just do their job and go home and the end of the day to take care of their families. I recall working with my brother at a University while living in California and the one thing that I noticed was the absense of employees complaining and talking about people behind their backs. This really struck a nerve with me and I decided to pay my way through school as a result of this experience. If you're around people who act negative and don't have anything to show for themselves, you'll be more at risk of taking the wrong paths.

Peace

GROOVE VICTIM

05-09-2003, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:

if you change your environment to support who you are, you can be whatever you like - even if it's horribly terrible... I agree with you 110 % Rickey!!!!!! People complain about where they live and they can't find jobs or a companion. Well, pack up your things and move or do some travelling. Stop staying couped up in your house all the time and go see the world for what it's worth!!!!

Peace [/QUOTE]well, see, groove - i don't condone changing environments because, if there's one thing i've learned from being house in chi, that's
"you can't hide from yourself...
everywhere you go, there you are..."

lack of patience leads us to quick-fixes, like changing enviornments...instead of taking the long, winding road of self-improvement, which can be painful once you start digging up what's really at the root of "you"...

i figure i have the rest of my life to work on my most cherished project..."me"... [/QUOTE]Think about this. By changing your environment for a little while, you might be able to get yourself out of hiding long enough to change what you don't like about yourself.

Peace

rob gregory

05-09-2003, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
most of the population has attention-deficit syndrome - they can go from person to person trying to change them, but for them to work on one person - themselves - takes too much patience... So what you are saying is that to work on oneself entails too much patience. Would it not be worth the effort? [/QUOTE]People would have to first admit they need changing.

[ May 09, 2003, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: PhoreAyem ]

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 10:03 AM

Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL.

Friday

05-09-2003, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by MYOR:
The first step to anything is admitting it...

And people will deny any faults within themselves....once they admit to whatever fault they have it easier to try and change it.. but this also takes a while, its not easy to change yourself over night... Yes admitting that change must take place is a first step, but in order to make any kind of change do we not need to accept what "faults" we have? We may just end up admitting to something and changing it to only find the result was not what we wanted.....back to square one so to speak.

RX

05-09-2003, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
The first step to anything is admitting it...

And people will deny any faults within themselves....once they admit to whatever fault they have it easier to try and change it.. but this also takes a while, its not easy to change yourself over night... Yes admitting that change must take place is a first step, but in order to make any kind of change do we not need to accept what "faults" we have? We may just end up admitting to something and changing it to only find the result was not what we wanted.....back to square one so to speak. [/QUOTE]WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO LIVE WITH A "FAULT"?

Friday

05-09-2003, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense.

Friday

05-09-2003, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
The first step to anything is admitting it...

And people will deny any faults within themselves....once they admit to whatever fault they have it easier to try and change it.. but this also takes a while, its not easy to change yourself over night... Yes admitting that change must take place is a first step, but in order to make any kind of change do we not need to accept what "faults" we have? We may just end up admitting to something and changing it to only find the result was not what we wanted.....back to square one so to speak. [/QUOTE]WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO LIVE WITH A "FAULT"? [/QUOTE]It is not that one would want to live with a "fault", the fact is that we all do live with "faults'

(sorry I am not a big fan of the word fault, it can be misleading, but I will use it for now)

Dj Pat

05-09-2003, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
Why is it that so many people want so many changes to take place in this world but are so rigid when it comes to changing themselves? hmmmm......? :rolleyes: I think that people are so caught up in there own world, set in there way's, basicly stuburn when it come's down to themselve's.
But when it come's down about someone eles life and that other's person's world, they want you to change to there standard's, but refuse to do the same for you.
Dj Pat

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 10:18 AM

Why is it that so many people want so many changes to take place in this world but are so rigid when it comes to changing themselves? hmmmm......?

I may be off topic...(please feel free to correct me if so) :D

When do we decide that a person need to change? Is it because they take us out of our comfort level? Should a person change because we don't agree with them?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question... graemlins/conf44.gif

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Perhaps it isn't CHANGE that is within your control, but the CONDITIONS FOR CHANGE.

Friday

05-09-2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
Why is it that so many people want so many changes to take place in this world but are so rigid when it comes to changing themselves? hmmmm......?

I may be off topic...(please feel free to correct me if so) :D

When do we decide that a person need to change? Is it because they take us out of our comfort level? Should a person change because we don't agree with them?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question... graemlins/conf44.gif No, not that "we" decide that a person needs to change. That is up to you.

When you sense you are out of your comfort level, you get agitated right? and feel that someone is picking on you right? Should it not be the agitation that should be questioned and not the other person?

change and fault....not very effective words :(

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
Why is it that so many people want so many changes to take place in this world but are so rigid when it comes to changing themselves? hmmmm......?

I may be off topic...(please feel free to correct me if so) :D

When do we decide that a person need to change? Is it because they take us out of our comfort level? Should a person change because we don't agree with them?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question... graemlins/conf44.gif No, not that "we" decide that a person needs to change. That is up to you.

When you sense you are out of your comfort level, you get agitated right? and feel that someone is picking on you right? Should it not be the agitation that should be questioned and not the other person?

change and fault....not very effective words :( [/QUOTE]mkay...I see what you are saying...

rob gregory

05-09-2003, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Maybe I'm confused. Does change still consist of a former and latter?

So to say, "I'm going to do it this way instead of that way" is not change?

So is it about elimination as opposed to change?

Friday

05-09-2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Perhaps it isn't CHANGE that is within your control, but the CONDITIONS FOR CHANGE. [/QUOTE]Well, you got me on that one. From what I can make of this is that is that you are saying the conditions for change are within your control. Not sure if I understood this.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Perhaps it isn't CHANGE that is within your control, but the CONDITIONS FOR CHANGE. [/QUOTE]Well, you got me on that one. From what I can make of this is that is that you are saying the conditions for change are within your control. Not sure if I understood this. [/QUOTE]The power to change comes from ALLOWING change to occur. Not interfering with the change that is already taking place.

MYOR

05-09-2003, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Blue:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
Why is it that so many people want so many changes to take place in this world but are so rigid when it comes to changing themselves? hmmmm......? :rolleyes: I think that people are so caught up in there own world, set in there way's, basicly stuburn when it come's down to themselve's.
But when it come's down about someone eles life and that other's person's world, they want you to change to there standard's, but refuse to do the same for you.
Dj Pat [/QUOTE]I believe its just easier to see things when you are on the outside looking in, b/c yes people are way too caught up in their own world... Sometimes it takes someone else telling you "hey are you aware that you yada yada yada" for you to relize it. graemlins/conf44.gif

rob gregory

05-09-2003, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Perhaps it isn't CHANGE that is within your control, but the CONDITIONS FOR CHANGE. [/QUOTE]Well, you got me on that one. From what I can make of this is that is that you are saying the conditions for change are within your control. Not sure if I understood this. [/QUOTE]The power to change comes from ALLOWING change to occur. Not interfering with the change that is already taking place. [/QUOTE]So the individual is not an agent in providing conditions for change to occur? Sounds like it's being left up to chance.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 10:41 AM

I still don't understand how certain conditions or elements should require you to look inside yourself and make this big change......I don't think that because someone is aggitated with you...you should change...just maybe the agitated should examine themselves instead of the agitator...see this could get complex...

let's just say, that I agitated someone or for that matter a whole message board with something I said biggrinangel.gif and I decided to spend some time with me, look inside myself and make a change...just what if I still believe in what I said prior ... but decided that I should change the way I say it...I did make a change but it wasn't a change to please those that I agitated but a change nonetheless...

Friday

05-09-2003, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Maybe I'm confused. Does change still consist of a former and latter?

So to say, "I'm going to do it this way instead of that way" is not change?

So is it about elimination as opposed to change? [/QUOTE]I don't know if it is much about elimination but more so as seeing things for what they really are, espeacially within oneself.

If we are one way and want to be another way because we see it as being better, we can try with all our might to change but we end up just being who we are...I suppose our own conditioned state of mind.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Perhaps it isn't CHANGE that is within your control, but the CONDITIONS FOR CHANGE. [/QUOTE]Well, you got me on that one. From what I can make of this is that is that you are saying the conditions for change are within your control. Not sure if I understood this. [/QUOTE]The power to change comes from ALLOWING change to occur. Not interfering with the change that is already taking place. [/QUOTE]So the individual is not an agent in providing conditions for change to occur? Sounds like it's being left up to chance. [/QUOTE]Again - maybe CHANGE is not within the realm of human control.

The CONDITIONS FOR CHANGE can be created under human control.

One cannot demand the wind blow - one can only pitch a sail and measure the wind.

rob gregory

05-09-2003, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Maybe I'm confused. Does change still consist of a former and latter?

So to say, "I'm going to do it this way instead of that way" is not change?

So is it about elimination as opposed to change? [/QUOTE]I don't know if it is much about elimination but more so as seeing things for what they really are, espeacially within oneself.

If we are one way and want to be another way because we see it as being better, we can try with all our might to change but we end up just being who we are...I suppose our own conditioned state of mind. [/QUOTE]But are we ever, truly who we are? At what point can anyone really say, "This is how I am?"
That seems to suggest the power to change or allow change is out of your hands.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Maybe I'm confused. Does change still consist of a former and latter?

So to say, "I'm going to do it this way instead of that way" is not change?

So is it about elimination as opposed to change? [/QUOTE]I don't know if it is much about elimination but more so as seeing things for what they really are, espeacially within oneself.

If we are one way and want to be another way because we see it as being better, we can try with all our might to change but we end up just being who we are...I suppose our own conditioned state of mind. [/QUOTE]True intelligence begins when one realizes the limitations of their mind.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Maybe I'm confused. Does change still consist of a former and latter?

So to say, "I'm going to do it this way instead of that way" is not change?

So is it about elimination as opposed to change? [/QUOTE]I don't know if it is much about elimination but more so as seeing things for what they really are, espeacially within oneself.

If we are one way and want to be another way because we see it as being better, we can try with all our might to change but we end up just being who we are...I suppose our own conditioned state of mind. [/QUOTE]But what if they are seeing things for what they are TO THEM, what if they have already made change(s)...however their change may not be one that we agree with...what if their reality isn't yours...

so should we all be reaching for one common goal..should we all have one reality...

I'm not sure I'm understanding...

[ May 09, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Maybe I'm confused. Does change still consist of a former and latter?

So to say, "I'm going to do it this way instead of that way" is not change?

So is it about elimination as opposed to change? [/QUOTE]I don't know if it is much about elimination but more so as seeing things for what they really are, espeacially within oneself.

If we are one way and want to be another way because we see it as being better, we can try with all our might to change but we end up just being who we are...I suppose our own conditioned state of mind. [/QUOTE]True intelligence begins when one realizes the limitations of their mind. [/QUOTE]true intelligence begins when one realizes that there are no limitations of our minds...

MYOR

05-09-2003, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Maybe I'm confused. Does change still consist of a former and latter?

So to say, "I'm going to do it this way instead of that way" is not change?

So is it about elimination as opposed to change? [/QUOTE]I don't know if it is much about elimination but more so as seeing things for what they really are, espeacially within oneself.

If we are one way and want to be another way because we see it as being better, we can try with all our might to change but we end up just being who we are...I suppose our own conditioned state of mind. [/QUOTE]But what if they are seeing things for what they are and made a change...however their change may not be one that we agree with...what if they are seeing things for what they truly are...and it just so happens that their reality isn't yours...

so should we all be reaching for one common goal..should we all have one reality...

I'm not sure I'm understanding... [/QUOTE]I believe this is a great rule of thumb...if you have several friend that think they way you do and you say or do something and they all find it offensive then you might need to examine yourself. graemlins/cool_shades.gif

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. Maybe I'm confused. Does change still consist of a former and latter?

So to say, "I'm going to do it this way instead of that way" is not change?

So is it about elimination as opposed to change? [/QUOTE]I don't know if it is much about elimination but more so as seeing things for what they really are, espeacially within oneself.

If we are one way and want to be another way because we see it as being better, we can try with all our might to change but we end up just being who we are...I suppose our own conditioned state of mind. [/QUOTE]True intelligence begins when one realizes the limitations of their mind. [/QUOTE]true intelligence begins when one realizes that there are no limitations of our minds... [/QUOTESo you can read minds? So you can see the future? So you can see through walls?

[ May 09, 2003, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

Friday

05-09-2003, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Maybe I'm confused. Does change still consist of a former and latter?

So to say, "I'm going to do it this way instead of that way" is not change?

So is it about elimination as opposed to change? [/QUOTE]I don't know if it is much about elimination but more so as seeing things for what they really are, espeacially within oneself.

If we are one way and want to be another way because we see it as being better, we can try with all our might to change but we end up just being who we are...I suppose our own conditioned state of mind. [/QUOTE]True intelligence begins when one realizes the limitations of their mind. [/QUOTE]This is because you are seeing yourself for what you are?

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. Maybe I'm confused. Does change still consist of a former and latter?

So to say, "I'm going to do it this way instead of that way" is not change?

So is it about elimination as opposed to change? [/QUOTE]I don't know if it is much about elimination but more so as seeing things for what they really are, espeacially within oneself.

If we are one way and want to be another way because we see it as being better, we can try with all our might to change but we end up just being who we are...I suppose our own conditioned state of mind. [/QUOTE]True intelligence begins when one realizes the limitations of their mind. [/QUOTE]true intelligence begins when one realizes that there are no limitations of our minds... [/QUOTESo you can read minds? So you can see the future? So you can see through walls? [/QUOTE]What??

darrow

05-09-2003, 11:06 AM

i'm a pepper you're a pepper wouldn't you like to be a pepper too?

(I had nothing deep to say. This was all I could think of. Carry on!) :D

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 11:10 AM

QUOTE]This is because you are seeing yourself for what you are? [/QB][/QUOTE]

GF, is this a question or a statement....

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Few understand the difference between CHANGE and CONTROL.

The topic, and the responses, while alluding to CHANGE, are actually about CONTROL. This is true, while trying to create a change within oneself, it then only becomes about controlling that change in oneself yet again.
It is like what you brought up about conditioning, if you see your conditioning and want to change that conditioning, you only end up conditioning the original condition. I hope that made sense. [/QUOTE]Maybe I'm confused. Does change still consist of a former and latter?

So to say, "I'm going to do it this way instead of that way" is not change?

So is it about elimination as opposed to change? [/QUOTE]I don't know if it is much about elimination but more so as seeing things for what they really are, espeacially within oneself.

If we are one way and want to be another way because we see it as being better, we can try with all our might to change but we end up just being who we are...I suppose our own conditioned state of mind. [/QUOTE]True intelligence begins when one realizes the limitations of their mind. [/QUOTE]This is because you are seeing yourself for what you are? [/QUOTE]Understanding the limitations of the mind is as simple as knowing that to leave a room, you have to walk through a door because you can't walk through walls.

Friday

05-09-2003, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
QUOTE]This is because you are seeing yourself for what you are? GF, is this a question or a statement.... [/QB][/QUOTE]

darn, it was a statement.

[ May 09, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: girlfriday ]

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
QUOTE]This is because you are seeing yourself for what you are? GF, is this a question or a statement.... [/QUOTE]darn, it was a statement. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Is it safe to say that conditions are forever changing? and if not, should we change the conditions or ourselves?

and if so, should we change ourselves for the conditions or for ourselves?

In either scenario, if we are constantly changing, when will we begin to evolve?

I'on know...

rob gregory

05-09-2003, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
QUOTE]This is because you are seeing yourself for what you are? GF, is this a question or a statement.... [/QUOTE]darn, it was a statement. [/QUOTE]Is it safe to say that conditions are forever changing? and if not, should we change the conditions or ourselves?

and if so, should we change ourselves for the conditions or for ourselves?

In either scenario, if we are constantly changing, when will we begin to evolve?

I'on know... [/QB][/QUOTE]

When you say evolve are you equating it with improvement?

Are you viewing change a lateral (different) movement as opposed to upward (improved)?

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 11:24 AM

When you say evolve are you equating it with improvement?

Are you viewing change a lateral (different) movement as opposed to upward (improved)? [/QB][/QUOTE]

I don't think a person evolves and equate it with negativity...I don't think you can measure change as it is viewed on an individual basis...

that's my point...if I change for me and equate it with evolving...someone else may see my change and and think I need to change again...

see what I mean...

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 11:29 AM

True change presents itself. Some see and CHOOSE. Others do not see. Still others see and behave as if they did not see.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
True change presents itself. Some see and CHOOSE. Others do not see. Still others see and behave as if they did not see. Agree..

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
True change presents itself. Some see and CHOOSE. Others do not see. Still others see and behave as if they did not see. Agree.. [/QUOTE]Then the question comes - "Why have I CHOSEN not to change?"

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
True change presents itself. Some see and CHOOSE. Others do not see. Still others see and behave as if they did not see. Agree.. [/QUOTE]Then the question comes - "Why have I CHOSEN not to change?" [/QUOTE]"What if I have chosen to change but it's not the change that YOU think I should have?"

irregardless you are going to think I have chosen not to change because the outcome isn't one of your approval...

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
True change presents itself. Some see and CHOOSE. Others do not see. Still others see and behave as if they did not see. Agree.. [/QUOTE]Then the question comes - "Why have I CHOSEN not to change?" [/QUOTE]"What if I have chosen to change but it's not the change that YOU think I should have?"

irregardless you are going to think I have chosen not to change because the outcome isn't one of your approval... [/QUOTE]I am not asserting any want of mine. I am simply demonstrating a process in the original question.

I will say that human beings use "TOMEISM" as a crutch to avoid growth.

Pete Nice

05-09-2003, 11:38 AM

it's hard for people to admit that their whole life may not be what they perceive it to be. that makes it easy to point out why so many others are wrong. it also makes for an easy cycle to live through, than to change your rountine. i know this 'cuz i'm right and your not

[ May 09, 2003, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: square root ]

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by square root:
it's hard for people to admit that their whole life may not be what they perceive it to be. that makes it easy to point out why so many others are wrong. it also makes for an easy cycle to live through, then change your rountine. i know this 'cuz i'm right and your not Human beings use "tomeism" to avoid growth.

Someone wants to master a style, they find a temple and a master. Once they enter the temple, they submit to the teaching of the master.

They don't come into the temple with "tomeism"...

To me, it means this.
To me, it means that.
To me, it should be this.

They submit to the teachings, as the master has.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
True change presents itself. Some see and CHOOSE. Others do not see. Still others see and behave as if they did not see. Agree.. [/QUOTE]Then the question comes - "Why have I CHOSEN not to change?" [/QUOTE]"What if I have chosen to change but it's not the change that YOU think I should have?"

irregardless you are going to think I have chosen not to change because the outcome isn't one of your approval... [/QUOTE]I am not asserting any want of mine. I am simply demonstrating a process in the original question.

I will say that human beings use "TOMEISM" as a crutch to avoid growth. [/QUOTE]what exactly is "tomeism"

Pete Nice

05-09-2003, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by square root:
it's hard for people to admit that their whole life may not be what they perceive it to be. that makes it easy to point out why so many others are wrong. it also makes for an easy cycle to live through, then change your rountine. i know this 'cuz i'm right and your not Human beings use "tomeism" to avoid growth.

Someone wants to master a style, they find a temple and a master. Once they enter the temple, they submit to the teaching of the master.

They don't come into the temple with "tomeism"...

To me, it means this.
To me, it means that.
To me, it should be this.

They submit to the teachings, as the master has. [/QUOTE]as opposed to being able to adapt to life, they will always try and make their enviorment adapt to their own beliefs?

rob gregory

05-09-2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by square root:
it's hard for people to admit that their whole life may not be what they perceive it to be. that makes it easy to point out why so many others are wrong. it also makes for an easy cycle to live through, then change your rountine. i know this 'cuz i'm right and your not Human beings use "tomeism" to avoid growth.

Someone wants to master a style, they find a temple and a master. Once they enter the temple, they submit to the teaching of the master.

They don't come into the temple with "tomeism"...

To me, it means this.
To me, it means that.
To me, it should be this.

They submit to the teachings, as the master has. [/QUOTE]So there are absolutes? This if we see something, we have to perceive what it is,in and of its self?

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
True change presents itself. Some see and CHOOSE. Others do not see. Still others see and behave as if they did not see. Agree.. [/QUOTE]Then the question comes - "Why have I CHOSEN not to change?" [/QUOTE]"What if I have chosen to change but it's not the change that YOU think I should have?"

irregardless you are going to think I have chosen not to change because the outcome isn't one of your approval... [/QUOTE]I am not asserting any want of mine. I am simply demonstrating a process in the original question.

I will say that human beings use "TOMEISM" as a crutch to avoid growth. [/QUOTE]what exactly is "tomeism" [/QUOTE]Tomeism is from the Bold Soul lexicon. It is a term to describe someone who claims they want to learn but are really suffering from the "full of shit" disease, termed as "TO-ME-ISM".

Master - "What is truth?"
Student - "Well, TO ME, it means this..."

Master - "What is life?"
Student - "Well, TO ME, it is that..."

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by square root:
it's hard for people to admit that their whole life may not be what they perceive it to be. that makes it easy to point out why so many others are wrong. it also makes for an easy cycle to live through, then change your rountine. i know this 'cuz i'm right and your not Human beings use "tomeism" to avoid growth.

Someone wants to master a style, they find a temple and a master. Once they enter the temple, they submit to the teaching of the master.

They don't come into the temple with "tomeism"...

To me, it means this.
To me, it means that.
To me, it should be this.

They submit to the teachings, as the master has. [/QUOTE]So there are absolutes? This if we see something, we have to perceive what it is,in and of its self? [/QUOTE]"Absolutes" are nothing more than agreed upon abstractions.

Consider the rungs of a ladder - when climbing upward, do you want them to be FIRM or FLEXIBLE? Do you want them to be able to SUPPORT YOUR WEIGHT, in order to get to THE NEXT LEVEL, or do you want them to BEND TO YOUR WEIGHT, making your climb HARDER?

Friday

05-09-2003, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
True change presents itself. Some see and CHOOSE. Others do not see. Still others see and behave as if they did not see. For those who do see but behave as if they do not see is it the fear within them that stops them from seeing or is it the conditioning?

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 11:52 AM

I will say that human beings use "TOMEISM" as a crutch to avoid growth. [/qb][/QUOTE]what exactly is "tomeism" [/qb][/QUOTE]Tomeism is from the Bold Soul lexicon. It is a term to describe someone who claims they want to learn but are really suffering from the "full of shit" disease, termed as "TO-ME-ISM".

Master - "What is truth?"
Student - "Well, TO ME, it means this..."

Master - "What is life?"
Student - "Well, TO ME, it is that..." [/QB][/QUOTE]

Oh so now we are suppose to roll with your made up words as gospel :rolleyes:

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
True change presents itself. Some see and CHOOSE. Others do not see. Still others see and behave as if they did not see. For those who do see but behave as if they do not see is it the fear within them that stops them from seeing or is it the conditioning? [/QUOTE]Examine this question and answer it yourself.

Pete Nice

05-09-2003, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by square root:
it's hard for people to admit that their whole life may not be what they perceive it to be. that makes it easy to point out why so many others are wrong. it also makes for an easy cycle to live through, then change your rountine. i know this 'cuz i'm right and your not Human beings use "tomeism" to avoid growth.

Someone wants to master a style, they find a temple and a master. Once they enter the temple, they submit to the teaching of the master.

They don't come into the temple with "tomeism"...

To me, it means this.
To me, it means that.
To me, it should be this.

They submit to the teachings, as the master has. [/QUOTE]So there are absolutes? This if we see something, we have to perceive what it is,in and of its self? [/QUOTE]it's yin and yang. to have absolutes you also have to have variables. most i believe want absolutes. it makes life more convient(sp) and possible, if that makes sense. as far as perceiving, i think we want things to fit our structures in order for it to fit our lives and the way someone may need to live. is this making sense?

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
I will say that human beings use "TOMEISM" as a crutch to avoid growth. what exactly is "tomeism" [/qb][/QUOTE]Tomeism is from the Bold Soul lexicon. It is a term to describe someone who claims they want to learn but are really suffering from the "full of shit" disease, termed as "TO-ME-ISM".

Master - "What is truth?"
Student - "Well, TO ME, it means this..."

Master - "What is life?"
Student - "Well, TO ME, it is that..." [/QB][/QUOTE]

Oh so now we are suppose to roll with your made up words as gospel :rolleyes: [/QB][/QUOTE]

Don't flatter yourself, Ashaki. I don't want any of you to do anything.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by square root:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by square root:
it's hard for people to admit that their whole life may not be what they perceive it to be. that makes it easy to point out why so many others are wrong. it also makes for an easy cycle to live through, then change your rountine. i know this 'cuz i'm right and your not Human beings use "tomeism" to avoid growth.

Someone wants to master a style, they find a temple and a master. Once they enter the temple, they submit to the teaching of the master.

They don't come into the temple with "tomeism"...

To me, it means this.
To me, it means that.
To me, it should be this.

They submit to the teachings, as the master has. [/QUOTE]So there are absolutes? This if we see something, we have to perceive what it is,in and of its self? [/QUOTE]it's yin and yang. to have absolutes you also have to have variables. most i believe want absolutes. it makes life more convient(sp) and possible, if that makes sense. as far as perceiving, i think we want things to fit our structures in order for it to fit our lives and the way someone may need to live. is this making sense? [/QUOTE]Most are so afraid of being wrong, they make no choices at all. This is why all these self-developed definitions, abstractions and principles are floated around.

We delude ourselves continually. Even against something as stark and plain as CAUSE AND EFFECT. This is the pleasure of being human - the ability to create illusion.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by square root:
[qb] it's hard for people to admit that their whole life may not be what they perceive it to be. that makes it easy to point out why so many others are wrong. it also makes for an easy cycle to live through, then change your rountine. i know this 'cuz i'm right and your not Human beings use "tomeism" to avoid growth.

Someone wants to master a style, they find a temple and a master. Once they enter the temple, they submit to the teaching of the master.

They don't come into the temple with "tomeism"...

To me, it means this.
To me, it means that.
To me, it should be this.

They submit to the teachings, as the master has. So there are absolutes? This if we see something, we have to perceive what it is,in and of its self? [/qb

SYLLABICATION: ab·so·lute
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: bs-lt, bs-lt KEY
ADJECTIVE: 1. Perfect in quality or nature; complete.
2. Not mixed; pure. See synonyms at pure.
3a. Not limited by restrictions or exceptions; unconditional: absolute trust. b. Unqualified in extent or degree; total: absolute silence. See Usage Note at infinite.
4. Unconstrained by constitutional or other provisions: an absolute ruler.
5. Not to be doubted or questioned; positive: absolute proof.

so are there absolutes....

nope...

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
[qb]
Originally posted by square root:
[qb] it's hard for people to admit that their whole life may not be what they perceive it to be. that makes it easy to point out why so many others are wrong. it also makes for an easy cycle to live through, then change your rountine. i know this 'cuz i'm right and your not Human beings use "tomeism" to avoid growth.

Someone wants to master a style, they find a temple and a master. Once they enter the temple, they submit to the teaching of the master.

They don't come into the temple with "tomeism"...

To me, it means this.
To me, it means that.
To me, it should be this.

They submit to the teachings, as the master has. So there are absolutes? This if we see something, we have to perceive what it is,in and of its self? [/qb

SYLLABICATION: ab·so·lute
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: bs-lt, bs-lt KEY
ADJECTIVE: 1. Perfect in quality or nature; complete.
2. Not mixed; pure. See synonyms at pure.
3a. Not limited by restrictions or exceptions; unconditional: absolute trust. b. Unqualified in extent or degree; total: absolute silence. See Usage Note at infinite.
4. Unconstrained by constitutional or other provisions: an absolute ruler.
5. Not to be doubted or questioned; positive: absolute proof.

so are there absolutes....

nope... Did I mention that those who suffer from "tomeism" also seek to spread it to others through false dogma?

They do this to cut themselves off from the threat to their comfort levels.

Friday

05-09-2003, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
True change presents itself. Some see and CHOOSE. Others do not see. Still others see and behave as if they did not see. For those who do see but behave as if they do not see is it the fear within them that stops them from seeing or is it the conditioning? [/QUOTE]Examine this question and answer it yourself. [/QUOTE]It would be conditioning. It is conditioning that creates the fear and it is the fear from seeing what is.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
True change presents itself. Some see and CHOOSE. Others do not see. Still others see and behave as if they did not see. For those who do see but behave as if they do not see is it the fear within them that stops them from seeing or is it the conditioning? [/QUOTE]Examine this question and answer it yourself. [/QUOTE]It would be conditioning. It is conditioning that creates the fear and it is the fear from seeing what is. [/QUOTE]Stop laboring to create a definition you can understand and work to expand your thinking to accommodate greater understanding.

Friday

05-09-2003, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
True change presents itself. Some see and CHOOSE. Others do not see. Still others see and behave as if they did not see. For those who do see but behave as if they do not see is it the fear within them that stops them from seeing or is it the conditioning? [/QUOTE]Examine this question and answer it yourself. [/QUOTE]It would be conditioning. It is conditioning that creates the fear and it is the fear from seeing what is. [/QUOTE]Stop laboring to create a definition you can understand and work to expand your thinking to accommodate greater understanding. [/QUOTE]understood

rob brito

05-09-2003, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
Why is it that so many people want so many changes to take place in this world but are so rigid when it comes to changing themselves? hmmmm......? :rolleyes: it's real easy fighting a war in which you can't get hurt.....you get the benefit of feeling all cute inside because you're a "martyr" for something plus there's none of that messy business that ties in with facing yourself.

nice and convenient....kind of like fighting a war by remote control from the moon.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:16 PM

Consider this:

There was an age when philosophy and physiology was merged into schools of fighting.

Each temple developed a truth and taught it to those who accepted it as truth.

After a time, when many schools grew in strength, all decided that their style - their truth - was superior. To prove it, tournaments were held to PUT THESE TRUTHS TO THE TEST.

Each school put forth their best. Those who fell to another were counted out. The winner moved on, fighting and fighting until there was only one winner left.

And the people benefitted.

MYOR

05-09-2003, 12:21 PM

[/qb][/QUOTE]Did I mention that those who suffer from "tomeism" also seek to spread it to others through false dogma?

They do this to cut themselves off from the threat to their comfort levels. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Are you saying that people should alway believe that there way is the only way?? That sometimes your view might only hold true to your situation?

Am I misunderstanding you?? graemlins/conf44.gif

rob brito

05-09-2003, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Consider this:

There was an age when philosophy and physiology was merged into schools of fighting.

Each temple developed a truth and taught it to those who accepted it as truth.

After a time, when many schools grew in strength, all decided that their style - their truth - was superior. To prove it, tournaments were held to PUT THESE TRUTHS TO THE TEST.

Each school put forth their best. Those who fell to another were counted out. The winner moved on, fighting and fighting until there was only one winner left.

And the people benefitted. it's important for people to realize that WE carry multiple "schools" within with the truths that tie in with them....this process of elimination and henceforth self-doubt is what many fragile or unnecesarily large egos don't have the courage to face or "fight".

it really comes down to the comfort level we experience wallowing in our lies.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
Did I mention that those who suffer from "tomeism" also seek to spread it to others through false dogma?

They do this to cut themselves off from the threat to their comfort levels. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Are you saying that people should alway believe that there way is the only way?? That sometimes your view might only hold true to your situation?

Am I misunderstanding you?? graemlins/conf44.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]

I am saying this:

Challenge provides for growth. If one continually avoids challenge - particularly by rejecting the insights of others - they will not grow.

Isolation = stagnation.

Also, some people do have things figured out. Just because human beings have experienced a century of bad leaders, doesn't mean leadership is bad.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by robs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Consider this:

There was an age when philosophy and physiology was merged into schools of fighting.

Each temple developed a truth and taught it to those who accepted it as truth.

After a time, when many schools grew in strength, all decided that their style - their truth - was superior. To prove it, tournaments were held to PUT THESE TRUTHS TO THE TEST.

Each school put forth their best. Those who fell to another were counted out. The winner moved on, fighting and fighting until there was only one winner left.

And the people benefitted. it's important for people to realize that WE carry multiple "schools" within with the truths that tie in with them....this process of elimination and henceforth self-doubt is what many fragile or unnecesarily large egos don't have the courage to face or "fight".

it really comes down to the comfort level we experience wallowing in our lies. [/QUOTE]but who's lies? each one thought their way was the right way, which in all actuality doesn't make any of them the wrong way?

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by robs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Consider this:

There was an age when philosophy and physiology was merged into schools of fighting.

Each temple developed a truth and taught it to those who accepted it as truth.

After a time, when many schools grew in strength, all decided that their style - their truth - was superior. To prove it, tournaments were held to PUT THESE TRUTHS TO THE TEST.

Each school put forth their best. Those who fell to another were counted out. The winner moved on, fighting and fighting until there was only one winner left.

And the people benefitted. it's important for people to realize that WE carry multiple "schools" within with the truths that tie in with them....this process of elimination and henceforth self-doubt is what many fragile or unnecesarily large egos don't have the courage to face or "fight".

it really comes down to the comfort level we experience wallowing in our lies. [/QUOTE]Indeed. Platitudes and conjecture REINFORCE conditioning. To get from point A to point B, one has to draw the first point.

Continually create your own definitions, your own truths, and you will never have to stick with point A long enough to get to point B. Therefore, you STAND STILL.

Stagnation.

MYOR

05-09-2003, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Consider this:

There was an age when philosophy and physiology was merged into schools of fighting.

Each temple developed a truth and taught it to those who accepted it as truth.

After a time, when many schools grew in strength, all decided that their style - their truth - was superior. To prove it, tournaments were held to PUT THESE TRUTHS TO THE TEST.

Each school put forth their best. Those who fell to another were counted out. The winner moved on, fighting and fighting until there was only one winner left.

And the people benefitted. HIGHLANDER.. There could only be one....

But isn't true that sometimes not best person/idea win does... ie..HITLER

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by robs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Consider this:

There was an age when philosophy and physiology was merged into schools of fighting.

Each temple developed a truth and taught it to those who accepted it as truth.

After a time, when many schools grew in strength, all decided that their style - their truth - was superior. To prove it, tournaments were held to PUT THESE TRUTHS TO THE TEST.

Each school put forth their best. Those who fell to another were counted out. The winner moved on, fighting and fighting until there was only one winner left.

And the people benefitted. it's important for people to realize that WE carry multiple "schools" within with the truths that tie in with them....this process of elimination and henceforth self-doubt is what many fragile or unnecesarily large egos don't have the courage to face or "fight".

it really comes down to the comfort level we experience wallowing in our lies. [/QUOTE]but who's lies? each one thought their way was the right way, which in all actuality doesn't make any of them the wrong way? [/QUOTE]Your comment exemplifies the fear of being wrong.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Consider this:

There was an age when philosophy and physiology was merged into schools of fighting.

Each temple developed a truth and taught it to those who accepted it as truth.

After a time, when many schools grew in strength, all decided that their style - their truth - was superior. To prove it, tournaments were held to PUT THESE TRUTHS TO THE TEST.

Each school put forth their best. Those who fell to another were counted out. The winner moved on, fighting and fighting until there was only one winner left.

And the people benefitted. HIGHLANDER.. There could only be one....

But isn't true that sometimes not best person/idea win does... ie..HITLER [/QUOTE]History shows he did not win.

And the point is not "winning", but EVOLUTION!

[ May 09, 2003, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

MYOR

05-09-2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by robs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Consider this:

There was an age when philosophy and physiology was merged into schools of fighting.

Each temple developed a truth and taught it to those who accepted it as truth.

After a time, when many schools grew in strength, all decided that their style - their truth - was superior. To prove it, tournaments were held to PUT THESE TRUTHS TO THE TEST.

Each school put forth their best. Those who fell to another were counted out. The winner moved on, fighting and fighting until there was only one winner left.

And the people benefitted. it's important for people to realize that WE carry multiple "schools" within with the truths that tie in with them....this process of elimination and henceforth self-doubt is what many fragile or unnecesarily large egos don't have the courage to face or "fight".

it really comes down to the comfort level we experience wallowing in our lies. [/QUOTE]Indeed. Platitudes and conjecture REINFORCE conditioning. To get from point A to point B, one has to draw the first point.

Continually create your own definitions, your own truths, and you will never have to stick with point A long enough to get to point B. Therefore, you STAND STILL.

Stagnation. [/QUOTE]This is why I don't understand you TOMEISM b/c My reality is not yours.... Therefor I say To me; bc I don't expect that it will apply also to you or for that matter you should adapt my way of thinking...

ie... to me abortion should be a woman choice..
To You... The woman has no choice....(this is just and example)

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by robs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Consider this:

There was an age when philosophy and physiology was merged into schools of fighting.

Each temple developed a truth and taught it to those who accepted it as truth.

After a time, when many schools grew in strength, all decided that their style - their truth - was superior. To prove it, tournaments were held to PUT THESE TRUTHS TO THE TEST.

Each school put forth their best. Those who fell to another were counted out. The winner moved on, fighting and fighting until there was only one winner left.

And the people benefitted. it's important for people to realize that WE carry multiple "schools" within with the truths that tie in with them....this process of elimination and henceforth self-doubt is what many fragile or unnecesarily large egos don't have the courage to face or "fight".

it really comes down to the comfort level we experience wallowing in our lies. [/QUOTE]Indeed. Platitudes and conjecture REINFORCE conditioning. To get from point A to point B, one has to draw the first point.

Continually create your own definitions, your own truths, and you will never have to stick with point A long enough to get to point B. Therefore, you STAND STILL.

Stagnation. [/QUOTE]This is why I don't understand you TOMEISM b/c My reality is not yours.... Therefor I say To me; bc I don't expect that it will apply also to you or for that matter you should adapt my way of thinking...

ie... to me abortion should be a woman choice..
To You... The woman has no choice....(this is just and example) [/QUOTE]A shared reality must be CHOSEN.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 12:36 PM

[/qb][/QUOTE]Your comment exemplifies the fear of being wrong. [/QB][/QUOTE]

okay...because I don't agree with you I am now fearful of being wrong...

so basically you are one of those people you mentioned previously who have it all figured out...

Pete Nice

05-09-2003, 12:37 PM

it just perception.... plain and simple. what you perceive is what you believe. what you believe dictates how you relate to everything else. now that's b.s. and i know it :D
or is it?

rob brito

05-09-2003, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by robs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Consider this:

There was an age when philosophy and physiology was merged into schools of fighting.

Each temple developed a truth and taught it to those who accepted it as truth.

After a time, when many schools grew in strength, all decided that their style - their truth - was superior. To prove it, tournaments were held to PUT THESE TRUTHS TO THE TEST.

Each school put forth their best. Those who fell to another were counted out. The winner moved on, fighting and fighting until there was only one winner left.

And the people benefitted. it's important for people to realize that WE carry multiple "schools" within with the truths that tie in with them....this process of elimination and henceforth self-doubt is what many fragile or unnecesarily large egos don't have the courage to face or "fight".

it really comes down to the comfort level we experience wallowing in our lies. [/QUOTE]but who's lies? each one thought their way was the right way, which in all actuality doesn't make any of them the wrong way? [/QUOTE]perspective and opinions on your being have to be conditioned so as to convince you that you're indeed right....otherwise you wouldn't believe it.

self discovery entails a very real, definite, and tangible OBJECT. whether you want to believe it or not this also breeds a right or a wrong....a truth or a lie.

you want to be happy?

face yourself.

MYOR

05-09-2003, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by square root:
it just perception.... plain and simple. what you perceive is what you believe. what you believe dictates how you relate to everything else. now that's b.s. and i know it :D
or is it? Sounds good to me!!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

rob brito

05-09-2003, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Continually create your own definitions, your own truths, and you will never have to stick with point A long enough to get to point B. Therefore, you STAND STILL.

Stagnation. brilliant.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by robs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Consider this:

There was an age when philosophy and physiology was merged into schools of fighting.

Each temple developed a truth and taught it to those who accepted it as truth.

After a time, when many schools grew in strength, all decided that their style - their truth - was superior. To prove it, tournaments were held to PUT THESE TRUTHS TO THE TEST.

Each school put forth their best. Those who fell to another were counted out. The winner moved on, fighting and fighting until there was only one winner left.

And the people benefitted. it's important for people to realize that WE carry multiple "schools" within with the truths that tie in with them....this process of elimination and henceforth self-doubt is what many fragile or unnecesarily large egos don't have the courage to face or "fight".

it really comes down to the comfort level we experience wallowing in our lies. [/QUOTE]Indeed. Platitudes and conjecture REINFORCE conditioning. To get from point A to point B, one has to draw the first point.

Continually create your own definitions, your own truths, and you will never have to stick with point A long enough to get to point B. Therefore, you STAND STILL.

Stagnation. [/QUOTE]This is why I don't understand you TOMEISM b/c My reality is not yours.... Therefor I say To me; bc I don't expect that it will apply also to you or for that matter you should adapt my way of thinking...

ie... to me abortion should be a woman choice..
To You... The woman has no choice....(this is just and example) [/QUOTE]MYOR...this will go on for 10 pages...

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
Your comment exemplifies the fear of being wrong. [/QB][/QUOTE]

okay...because I don't agree with you I am now fearful of being wrong...

so basically you are one of those people you mentioned previously who have it all figured out... [/QB][/QUOTE]

Ashaki - before you launch an attack, be certain you can sustain a counter attack.

MYOR

05-09-2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
Your comment exemplifies the fear of being wrong. [/QB][/QUOTE]

so basically you are one of those people you mentioned previously who have it all figured out... [/QB][/QUOTE]

TO ME graemlins/cool_shades.gif ...surely seems that way...

rob brito

05-09-2003, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by square root:
it just perception.... plain and simple. what you perceive is what you believe. what you believe dictates how you relate to everything else. now that's b.s. and i know it :D
or is it? perception is one thing.

truth is another.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by square root:
it just perception.... plain and simple. what you perceive is what you believe. what you believe dictates how you relate to everything else. now that's b.s. and i know it :D
or is it? Sounds good to me!!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif [/QUOTE]That is not bullshit...there are no absolutes when it comes to change and evolution in human beings...impossible...

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
Your comment exemplifies the fear of being wrong. [/QUOTE]okay...because I don't agree with you I am now fearful of being wrong...

so basically you are one of those people you mentioned previously who have it all figured out... [/QB][/QUOTE]

Ashaki - before you launch an attack, be certain you can sustain a counter attack. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Why do you feel as though I am attacking you?

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by robs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by square root:
it just perception.... plain and simple. what you perceive is what you believe. what you believe dictates how you relate to everything else. now that's b.s. and i know it :D
or is it? perception is one thing.

truth is another. [/QUOTE]truth as in what...evolution, conditioning and change within an individual?

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:45 PM

Ashaki - you offer rebuttals that are founded in no logic. You do this because obviously you are being irked out of your comfort levels.

Post after post, thread after thread, you stick around offering platitudes and conjecture. Once either myself or someone offers an actual logical process for understanding, you offer criticism of the individual and speak about how there is no truth.

It hurts, doesn't it - not wanting to stay but not being able to walk away?

What keeps you here?

rob brito

05-09-2003, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by square root:
it just perception.... plain and simple. what you perceive is what you believe. what you believe dictates how you relate to everything else. now that's b.s. and i know it :D
or is it? Sounds good to me!!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif [/QUOTE]That is not bullshit...there are no absolutes when it comes to change and evolution in human beings...impossible... [/QUOTE]then you define yourself as somebody with an ever changing identity...

no identity if you will.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:48 PM

When illusion dominates identity, illusion cannot be parted with without experiencing great pain.

Support is required in order to survive the transition.

[ May 09, 2003, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

MYOR

05-09-2003, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by robs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by square root:
it just perception.... plain and simple. what you perceive is what you believe. what you believe dictates how you relate to everything else. now that's b.s. and i know it :D
or is it? Sounds good to me!!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif [/QUOTE]That is not bullshit...there are no absolutes when it comes to change and evolution in human beings...impossible... [/QUOTE]then you define yourself as somebody with an ever changing identity...

no identity if you will. [/QUOTE]My truth is not your truth... so by whose truth are we going by??

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by robs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by square root:
it just perception.... plain and simple. what you perceive is what you believe. what you believe dictates how you relate to everything else. now that's b.s. and i know it :D
or is it? Sounds good to me!!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif [/QUOTE]That is not bullshit...there are no absolutes when it comes to change and evolution in human beings...impossible... [/QUOTE]then you define yourself as somebody with an ever changing identity...

no identity if you will. [/QUOTE]My truth is not your truth... so by whose truth are we going by?? [/QUOTE]Put them to the test - and LOGIC is the arena.

rob brito

05-09-2003, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by robs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by square root:
it just perception.... plain and simple. what you perceive is what you believe. what you believe dictates how you relate to everything else. now that's b.s. and i know it :D
or is it? Sounds good to me!!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif [/QUOTE]That is not bullshit...there are no absolutes when it comes to change and evolution in human beings...impossible... [/QUOTE]then you define yourself as somebody with an ever changing identity...

no identity if you will. [/QUOTE]My truth is not your truth... so by whose truth are we going by?? [/QUOTE]you said it yourself....yours is not mine.

the issue at hand here is honesty when discovering which reality applies to you my friend.

MYOR

05-09-2003, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Ashaki - you offer rebuttals that are founded in no logic. You do this because obviously you are being irked out of your comfort levels.

Post after post, thread after thread, you stick around offering platitudes and conjecture. Once either myself or someone offers an actual logical process for understanding, you offer criticism of the individual and speak about how there is no truth.

It hurts, doesn't it - not wanting to stay but not being able to walk away?

What keeps you here? Wow isn't this a bit much... so she doesn't see things the way you see it this makes her "irked out of your comfort levels"

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Ashaki - you offer rebuttals that are founded in no logic. You do this because obviously you are being irked out of your comfort levels.

Post after post, thread after thread, you stick around offering platitudes and conjecture. Once either myself or someone offers an actual logical process for understanding, you offer criticism of the individual and speak about how there is no truth.

It hurts, doesn't it - not wanting to stay but not being able to walk away?

What keeps you here? Wow isn't this a bit much... so she doesn't see things the way you see it this makes her "irked out of your comfort levels" [/QUOTE]No one knows how I "see" things. I am simply speaking logically.

Pete Nice

05-09-2003, 12:55 PM

there is only the truth you live by.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Ashaki - you offer rebuttals that are founded in no logic. You do this because obviously you are being irked out of your comfort levels.

Post after post, thread after thread, you stick around offering platitudes and conjecture. Once either myself or someone offers an actual logical process for understanding, you offer criticism of the individual and speak about how there is no truth.

It hurts, doesn't it - not wanting to stay but not being able to walk away?

What keeps you here? What are you talking about...what makes your process for understanding lo logical ....the bottom line BOLD is YOUR TRUTH IS NOT THE ONLY TRUTH...MY TRUTH IS NOT THE ONLY TRUTH...I agree when I agree, I don't criticize...you are very quick to challenge any and everyones belief and then package it as if you are engaging in intellectual conversation...BUT as soon as someone CHALLENGE your reasoning and TRUTH or logic...they are attacking you ... you are the only one who appears to be conditioned...

now is a good time for me to walk away...

[ May 09, 2003, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:00 PM

2 + 2 = 4. One can argue that there is deeper meaning there, that "to me" it could be something else, but the logic is clear.

Logic does not lie. The number of languages in humanity are legion. Several different letter characters, words...

There is a reason why there are only nine mathematical integers and one cypher in all of humanity.

MYOR

05-09-2003, 01:00 PM

no identity if you will. [/qb][/QUOTE]My truth is not your truth... so by whose truth are we going by?? [/qb][/QUOTE]Put them to the test - and LOGIC is the arena. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Ok Bold Soul....

I my mother was raised that you basically serve men tend to there needs... That is her Truth..

My Truth is my truth is men can serve their damn self..

my brother comes home and wants to have dinner...

my logic is he should serve his damn self
hers is ahh you should serve your little brother..

whose truth and logic do we go by?????

Friday

05-09-2003, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
When illusion dominates identity, illusion cannot be parted with without experiencing great pain.

Support is required in order to survive the transition. This is so true.

However, it is the illusion which keeps one from reaching out for support. And when it is there you banish it because all you can see is your own truth which is the illusion. That is why some of us here are so agitated or why we get agitated in our own lives. Seeing what is can be hurtful espeacially when it does not fit in with ones own beliefs. And beliefs are our own thoughts which creates the mindset.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
no identity if you will. My truth is not your truth... so by whose truth are we going by?? [/qb][/QUOTE]Put them to the test - and LOGIC is the arena. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Ok Bold Soul....

I my mother was raised that you basically serve men tend to there needs... That is her Truth..

My Truth is my truth is men can serve their damn self..

my brother comes home and wants to have dinner...

my logic is he should serve his damn self
hers is ahh you should serve your little brother..

whose truth and logic do we go by????? [/QB][/QUOTE]

The logic that says if he goes hungry long enough, he will feed himself if the food is available.

The logic that, to help your mother learn that you don't like her control, you will have to resist her commands - and therefore experience pain.

The logic that, if you really want to be free from your mother's truth, courage will have to be exercised.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
2 + 2 = 4. One can argue that there is deeper meaning there, that "to me" it could be something else, but the logic is clear.

Logic does not lie. The number of languages in humanity are legion. Several different letter characters, words...

There is a reason why there are only nine mathematical integers and one cypher in all of humanity. 2+2=4 is that logic or absolute?

Friday

05-09-2003, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Ashaki - you offer rebuttals that are founded in no logic. You do this because obviously you are being irked out of your comfort levels.

Post after post, thread after thread, you stick around offering platitudes and conjecture. Once either myself or someone offers an actual logical process for understanding, you offer criticism of the individual and speak about how there is no truth.

It hurts, doesn't it - not wanting to stay but not being able to walk away?

What keeps you here? What are you talking about...what makes your process for understanding lo logical ....the bottom line BOLD is YOUR TRUTH IS NOT THE ONLY TRUTH...MY TRUTH IS NOT THE ONLY TRUTH...I agree when I agree, I don't criticize...you are very quick to challenge any and everyones belief and then package it as if you are engaging in intellectual conversation...BUT as soon as someone CHALLENGE your reasoning and TRUTH or logic...they are attacking you ... you are the only one who appears to be conditioned...

now is a good time for me to walk away... [/QUOTE]Ashaki, if you walk away now it is because fear has caused you to do so, trust me on this, I truly know of what I speak.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
2 + 2 = 4. One can argue that there is deeper meaning there, that "to me" it could be something else, but the logic is clear.

Logic does not lie. The number of languages in humanity are legion. Several different letter characters, words...

There is a reason why there are only nine mathematical integers and one cypher in all of humanity. 2+2=4 is that logic or absolute? [/QUOTE]C'mon Ashaki. :rolleyes:

MYOR

05-09-2003, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
no identity if you will. My truth is not your truth... so by whose truth are we going by?? [/QUOTE]Put them to the test - and LOGIC is the arena. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Ok Bold Soul....

I my mother was raised that you basically serve men tend to there needs... That is her Truth..

My Truth is my truth is men can serve their damn self..

my brother comes home and wants to have dinner...

my logic is he should serve his damn self
hers is ahh you should serve your little brother..

whose truth and logic do we go by????? [/QB][/QUOTE]

The logic that says if he goes hungry long enough, he will feed himself if the food is available.

The logic that, to help your mother learn that you don't like her control, you will have to resist her commands - and therefore experience pain.

The logic that, if you really want to be free from your mother's truth, courage will have to be exercised. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Ahh but i feel i'm bigger person for seeing that her truth is not mine and accepting it... if she want to do this go ahead but I'm not...

And my brother has no equation in this problem...
We are dealing with her and my truth and logic...

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
no identity if you will. My truth is not your truth... so by whose truth are we going by?? [/QUOTE]Put them to the test - and LOGIC is the arena. [/QUOTE]Ok Bold Soul....

I my mother was raised that you basically serve men tend to there needs... That is her Truth..

My Truth is my truth is men can serve their damn self..

my brother comes home and wants to have dinner...

my logic is he should serve his damn self
hers is ahh you should serve your little brother..

whose truth and logic do we go by????? [/QB][/QUOTE]

The logic that says if he goes hungry long enough, he will feed himself if the food is available.

The logic that, to help your mother learn that you don't like her control, you will have to resist her commands - and therefore experience pain.

The logic that, if you really want to be free from your mother's truth, courage will have to be exercised. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Ahh but i feel i'm bigger person for seeing that her truth is not mine and accepting it... if she want to do this go ahead but I'm not...

And my brother has no equation in this problem...
We are dealing with her and my truth and logic... [/QB][/QUOTE]

That is a very non-confrontational way of dealing with the fact that your mother's rules are no good for you.

"To each his own." is as good a cop-out as any.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
2 + 2 = 4. One can argue that there is deeper meaning there, that "to me" it could be something else, but the logic is clear.

Logic does not lie. The number of languages in humanity are legion. Several different letter characters, words...

There is a reason why there are only nine mathematical integers and one cypher in all of humanity. 2+2=4 is that logic or absolute? [/QUOTE]C'mon Ashaki. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]I am truly trying to understand you...

tell me a logical way we can look at 2+2=4

logic=reasoning...we can't reason 2+2=4

you said you give logical ways of understanding...not absolute..because you being human and I being human...there can't be absolute....with logic you leave room for reasoning...and challenge...

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
2 + 2 = 4. One can argue that there is deeper meaning there, that "to me" it could be something else, but the logic is clear.

Logic does not lie. The number of languages in humanity are legion. Several different letter characters, words...

There is a reason why there are only nine mathematical integers and one cypher in all of humanity. 2+2=4 is that logic or absolute? [/QUOTE]C'mon Ashaki. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]I am truly trying to understand you...

tell me a logical way we can look at 2+2=4

logic=reasoning...we can't reason 2+2=4

you said you give logical ways of understanding...not absolute..because you being human and I being human...there can't be absolute....with logic you leave room for reasoning...and challenge... [/QUOTE]I am not trying to give anyone anything. I am simply carrying on in a conversation someone else started.

MYOR

05-09-2003, 01:15 PM

/QB][/QUOTE]

That is a very non-confrontational way of dealing with the fact that your mother's rules are no good for you.

"To each his own." is as good a cop-out as any. [/QB][/QUOTE]

You know you don't make sense ... its you way or the high way.. NOT a cop-out... its an understanding that this is the way she was raised and I can't change it but I choose not to live by it ... so where exactly am I coping out..

I think you really need to check yourself...

It seems that you feel you are the only one with the right answers LOGIC tells me your not

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:17 PM

Prime numbers can be divided evenly only by themselves and one. Examples include 2, 3, 5, 7, 11 and so on. The Greek mathematician Euclid proved that there are an infinite number of prime numbers. But these numbers do not occur in a regular sequence and there is no formula for generating them. Therefore, the discovery of new primes requires randomly generating and testing millions of numbers.

By this, mathematics is a LOGICAL SYSTEM that can be REASONED based on ABSOLUTES which are PERFECT NUMBERS.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
/QB]That is a very non-confrontational way of dealing with the fact that your mother's rules are no good for you.

"To each his own." is as good a cop-out as any. [/QUOTE]

You know you don't make sense ... its you way or the high way.. NOT a cop-out... its an understanding that this is the way she was raised and I can't change it but I choose not to live by it ... so where exactly am I coping out..

I think you really need to check yourself...

It seems that you feel you are the only one with the right answers LOGIC tells me your not [/QB][/QUOTE]

Which will you choose - your LOGIC or her TRUTH?

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Prime numbers can be divided evenly only by themselves and one. Examples include 2, 3, 5, 7, 11 and so on. The Greek mathematician Euclid proved that there are an infinite number of prime numbers. But these numbers do not occur in a regular sequence and there is no formula for generating them. Therefore, the discovery of new primes requires randomly generating and testing millions of numbers.

By this, mathematics is a LOGICAL SYSTEM that can be REASONED based on ABSOLUTES which are PERFECT NUMBERS. now how does this apply to change, conditions, and evolution as it relates to humans...

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:20 PM

And for the record - I feel nothing. I have stated nothing about my feelings, wants, desires, or intentions.

Those who argue those claims are getting them from somewhere else - not me.

neuthelius

05-09-2003, 01:20 PM

It's all about accountability.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Prime numbers can be divided evenly only by themselves and one. Examples include 2, 3, 5, 7, 11 and so on. The Greek mathematician Euclid proved that there are an infinite number of prime numbers. But these numbers do not occur in a regular sequence and there is no formula for generating them. Therefore, the discovery of new primes requires randomly generating and testing millions of numbers.

By this, mathematics is a LOGICAL SYSTEM that can be REASONED based on ABSOLUTES which are PERFECT NUMBERS. now how does this apply to change, conditions, and evolution as it relates to humans... [/QUOTE]That to evolve beyond the condition of the present, human beings must embrace absolutes, as one embraces the rungs of a ladder on their upward climb.

MYOR

05-09-2003, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
/QB]That is a very non-confrontational way of dealing with the fact that your mother's rules are no good for you.

"To each his own." is as good a cop-out as any. [/QUOTE]You know you don't make sense ... its you way or the high way.. NOT a cop-out... its an understanding that this is the way she was raised and I can't change it but I choose not to live by it ... so where exactly am I coping out..

I think you really need to check yourself...

It seems that you feel you are the only one with the right answers LOGIC tells me your not [/QUOTE]

Which will you choose - your LOGIC or her TRUTH? [/QB][/QUOTE]

Don't try it graemlins/spanka.gif .. read above again and see whose truth and logic I chose... graemlins/tongueout.gif

MYOR

05-09-2003, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
And for the record - I feel nothing. I have stated nothing about my feelings, wants, desires, or intentions.

Those who argue those claims are getting them from somewhere else - not me. ok Shagee icon_rofl.gif graemlins/lol.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
And for the record - I feel nothing. I have stated nothing about my feelings, wants, desires, or intentions.

Those who argue those claims are getting them from somewhere else - not me. ok Shagee icon_rofl.gif graemlins/lol.gif graemlins/rofl.gif [/QUOTE]You offer a superlative arguement to demonstrate a choice between absolute logic and reason based on situations and you think you've one-upped me somehow?

Ah - the impetus to destroy. If you wanted to leave, you've provided a beautiful smokescreen for yourself.

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:31 PM

Ah yes. And for me too, it seems. Abracadabra.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 01:34 PM

absolute logic can not exsist with humans due to morals and values...

you can't convince an Atheist there's a God..

you can't convince a Christian there isn't one...

your logical concepts look great on paper but would never work in reality...

I hope you don't think I am attacking you or being cynical or criticizing...

GF, were you looking for a specific answer?

[ May 09, 2003, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]

MYOR

05-09-2003, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
And for the record - I feel nothing. I have stated nothing about my feelings, wants, desires, or intentions.

Those who argue those claims are getting them from somewhere else - not me. ok Shagee icon_rofl.gif graemlins/lol.gif graemlins/rofl.gif [/QUOTE]You offer a superlative arguement to demonstrate a choice between absolute logic and reason based on situations and you think you've one-upped me somehow?

Ah - the impetus to destroy. If you wanted to leave, you've provided a beautiful smokescreen for yourself. [/QUOTE]No child this is how i chose to leave...

I don't think I've "one-upped" you.. but obviously you did since your stating it... And This is not a CHALLENGE... Why dont you try to see another view but your own... you might learn something...

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
absolute logic can not exsist with humans due to morals and values...

you can't convince an Atheist there's a God..

you can't convince a Christian there isn't one...

your logical concepts look great on paper but would never work in reality...

I hope you don't think I am attacking you or being cynical or criticizing...

GF, were you looking for a specific answer? What if human beings abandoned morals and values?

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
And for the record - I feel nothing. I have stated nothing about my feelings, wants, desires, or intentions.

Those who argue those claims are getting them from somewhere else - not me. ok Shagee icon_rofl.gif graemlins/lol.gif graemlins/rofl.gif [/QUOTE]You offer a superlative arguement to demonstrate a choice between absolute logic and reason based on situations and you think you've one-upped me somehow?

Ah - the impetus to destroy. If you wanted to leave, you've provided a beautiful smokescreen for yourself. [/QUOTE]No child this is how i chose to leave...

I don't think I've "one-upped" you.. but obviously you did since your stating it... And This is not a CHALLENGE... Why dont you try to see another view but your own... you might learn something... [/QUOTE]Then what are you offering me?

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
absolute logic can not exsist with humans due to morals and values...

you can't convince an Atheist there's a God..

you can't convince a Christian there isn't one...

your logical concepts look great on paper but would never work in reality...

I hope you don't think I am attacking you or being cynical or criticizing...

GF, were you looking for a specific answer? What if human beings abandoned morals and values? [/QUOTE]it would be a caotic mess...you would have nothing to measure...my truth would definitely be my truth and yours yours...I see what your getting at...but it would never work...it has never work...it is not meant to work like that or we would all be exactly the same...homongenized...

mhd

05-09-2003, 01:41 PM

"would never work"

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
absolute logic can not exsist with humans due to morals and values...

you can't convince an Atheist there's a God..

you can't convince a Christian there isn't one...

your logical concepts look great on paper but would never work in reality...

I hope you don't think I am attacking you or being cynical or criticizing...

GF, were you looking for a specific answer? What if human beings abandoned morals and values? [/QUOTE]it would be a caotic mess...you would have nothing to measure...my truth would definitely be my truth and yours yours...I see what your getting at...but it would never work...it has never work...it is not meant to work like that or we would all be exactly the same...homongenized... [/QUOTE]Your "homogenization" is my "unification".

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
"would never work" Indeed. Love those magic words and phrases.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
absolute logic can not exsist with humans due to morals and values...

you can't convince an Atheist there's a God..

you can't convince a Christian there isn't one...

your logical concepts look great on paper but would never work in reality...

I hope you don't think I am attacking you or being cynical or criticizing...

GF, were you looking for a specific answer? What if human beings abandoned morals and values? [/QUOTE]it would be a caotic mess...you would have nothing to measure...my truth would definitely be my truth and yours yours...I see what your getting at...but it would never work...it has never work...it is not meant to work like that or we would all be exactly the same...homongenized... [/QUOTE]Your "homogenization" is my "unification". [/QUOTE]then why are we different

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
absolute logic can not exsist with humans due to morals and values...

you can't convince an Atheist there's a God..

you can't convince a Christian there isn't one...

your logical concepts look great on paper but would never work in reality...

I hope you don't think I am attacking you or being cynical or criticizing...

GF, were you looking for a specific answer? What if human beings abandoned morals and values? [/QUOTE]it would be a caotic mess...you would have nothing to measure...my truth would definitely be my truth and yours yours...I see what your getting at...but it would never work...it has never work...it is not meant to work like that or we would all be exactly the same...homongenized... [/QUOTE]Your "homogenization" is my "unification". [/QUOTE]then why are we different [/QUOTE]Are we?

RX

05-09-2003, 01:45 PM

sex helps...get some.

RX

05-09-2003, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Your "homogenization" is my "unification". you sound like you're straight out of "the fountainhead"... graemlins/rofl.gif

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
sex helps...get some. you have any referrals graemlins/rofl.gif

RX

05-09-2003, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
sex helps...get some. you have any referrals graemlins/rofl.gif [/QUOTE]GIRL!!!!!
i can think of a few men on this board that could use a lil' strokin'...

that'll make 'em dumb...me likes...

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Your "homogenization" is my "unification". you sound like you're straight out of "the fountainhead"... graemlins/rofl.gif [/QUOTE]Objectiveism offers a fragment, but then there are so many fragments already.

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
sex helps...get some. you have any referrals graemlins/rofl.gif [/QUOTE]GIRL!!!!!
i can think of a few men on this board that could use a lil' strokin'...

that'll make 'em dumb...me likes... [/QUOTE]STOP!!

oops...can we crack jokes in this thread...I'm so damned confused biggrinangel.gif

Friday

05-09-2003, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
absolute logic can not exsist with humans due to morals and values...

you can't convince an Atheist there's a God..

you can't convince a Christian there isn't one...

your logical concepts look great on paper but would never work in reality...

I hope you don't think I am attacking you or being cynical or criticizing...

GF, were you looking for a specific answer? To be honest, there was not a specific answer I was looking for only challenges to face the truth with courage. Through interaction with others I can better see myself. We are all mirrors for each other. Some better than others.

Now, before I head off to the doctors maybe you can see some truth in this..

*****************
I am supposedly a female black woman raised in the catholic church. Right?

Now who is to say I am female, but gender
Who is to say I am black, but race
And who is to say I should believe in god, but church.

These are not my truths but dogma and passed down institutionalized theories of who I should be when in fact all I am is a human being.
By taking on these theories as belief I then become conditioned in thinking accordingly and that is where I come up with "MY TRUTH" and not just truth. Can you see that?

MYOR

05-09-2003, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
sex helps...get some. you have any referrals graemlins/rofl.gif [/QUOTE]Sex with referrals graemlins/clap.gif graemlins/clap.gif
Send some my way also graemlins/rofl.gif

mhd

05-09-2003, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by MYOR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
sex helps...get some. you have any referrals graemlins/rofl.gif [/QUOTE]Sex with referrals graemlins/clap.gif graemlins/clap.gif
Send some my way also graemlins/rofl.gif [/QUOTE]finally some answers

Tenyu

05-09-2003, 01:52 PM

We do not see things as they are
We see things as we are.
Talmud

RX

05-09-2003, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
By taking on these theories as belief I then become conditioned in thinking accordingly and that is where I come up with "MY TRUTH" and not just truth. Can you see that? not according to aristotle - we are born with our "conditioning", can you dig it?....but then, i don't think any participants would care to get philosophical, for this thread hasn't really touched upon what lies beneath the "freaky philosophy"...

when y'all wanna talk sartre, ring me...

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
absolute logic can not exsist with humans due to morals and values...

you can't convince an Atheist there's a God..

you can't convince a Christian there isn't one...

your logical concepts look great on paper but would never work in reality...

I hope you don't think I am attacking you or being cynical or criticizing...

GF, were you looking for a specific answer? To be honest, there was not a specific answer I was looking for only challenges to face the truth with courage. Through interaction with others I can better see myself. We are all mirrors for each other. Some better than others.

Now, before I head off to the doctors maybe you can see some truth in this..

*****************
I am supposedly a female black woman raised in the catholic church. Right?

Now who is to say I am female, but gender
Who is to say I am black, but race
And who is to say I should believe in god, but church.

These are not my truths but dogma and passed down institutionalized theories of who I should be when in fact all I am is a human being.
By taking on these theories as belief I then become conditioned in thinking accordingly and that is where I come up with "MY TRUTH" and not just truth. Can you see that? [/QUOTE]So your saying we're just human beings that's it...

I agree with that...and in your truth that's all you are...but when I see you...my truth becomes you are a Black woman...

My truth is, I am a Black woman and the two are unseperable, I wasn't one before the other...but YOUR TRUTH could very well be, I'm just a person...

no wrong or right...

the only absolute in this situation is that you are human...

Yours and Bold's philosophy's are more ideal than realistic...unfortunately history is a big reason why this way of thinking don't work...

mhd

05-09-2003, 02:00 PM

does history show our limitations or our excellence?

RX

05-09-2003, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
the only absolute in this situation is that you are human...
not according to scientology... ;)

RX

05-09-2003, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
does history show our limitations or our excellence? our excellence is in our limitations...at the point in which we fail proves God's existence - our Creator...what an excellent plan we are...

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
does history show our limitations or our excellence? good question...shouldn't it reflect both?

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
the only absolute in this situation is that you are human...
not according to scientology... ;) [/QUOTE]talk to me...what is scientology...and how can it argue that human is not human?

not trying to argue or criticize...

and do I need to put this disclaimer everytime I ask a question?

[ May 09, 2003, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]

rob gregory

05-09-2003, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
When illusion dominates identity, illusion cannot be parted with without experiencing great pain.

Support is required in order to survive the transition. This is so true.

However, it is the illusion which keeps one from reaching out for support. And when it is there you banish it because all you can see is your own truth which is the illusion. That is why some of us here are so agitated or why we get agitated in our own lives. Seeing what is can be hurtful espeacially when it does not fit in with ones own beliefs. And beliefs are our own thoughts which creates the mindset. [/QUOTE]Solipsism

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
When illusion dominates identity, illusion cannot be parted with without experiencing great pain.

Support is required in order to survive the transition. This is so true.

However, it is the illusion which keeps one from reaching out for support. And when it is there you banish it because all you can see is your own truth which is the illusion. That is why some of us here are so agitated or why we get agitated in our own lives. Seeing what is can be hurtful espeacially when it does not fit in with ones own beliefs. And beliefs are our own thoughts which creates the mindset. [/QUOTE]Solipsism [/QUOTE]I ABSOLUTELY AGREE 200%

RX

05-09-2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
When illusion dominates identity, illusion cannot be parted with without experiencing great pain.

Support is required in order to survive the transition. This is so true.

However, it is the illusion which keeps one from reaching out for support. And when it is there you banish it because all you can see is your own truth which is the illusion. That is why some of us here are so agitated or why we get agitated in our own lives. Seeing what is can be hurtful espeacially when it does not fit in with ones own beliefs. And beliefs are our own thoughts which creates the mindset. [/QUOTE]Solipsism [/QUOTE]however, with the element of illusion looming, this may not be true...

RX

05-09-2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
the only absolute in this situation is that you are human...
not according to scientology... ;) [/QUOTE]talk to me...what is scientology...and how can it argue that human is not human?

not trying to argue or criticize...

and do I need to put this disclaimer everytime I ask a question? [/QUOTE]they say we could be aliens...wooooOOOOOOOOoooooooo graemlins/scared.gif

[ May 09, 2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Ms Rickey X ]

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PhoreAyem:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
When illusion dominates identity, illusion cannot be parted with without experiencing great pain.

Support is required in order to survive the transition. This is so true.

However, it is the illusion which keeps one from reaching out for support. And when it is there you banish it because all you can see is your own truth which is the illusion. That is why some of us here are so agitated or why we get agitated in our own lives. Seeing what is can be hurtful espeacially when it does not fit in with ones own beliefs. And beliefs are our own thoughts which creates the mindset. [/QUOTE]Solipsism [/QUOTE]however, with the element of illusion looming, this may not be true... [/QUOTE]WHO'S ILLUSION? just kidding...that was my whole point....in a nutshell

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
absolute logic can not exsist with humans due to morals and values...

you can't convince an Atheist there's a God..

you can't convince a Christian there isn't one...

your logical concepts look great on paper but would never work in reality...

I hope you don't think I am attacking you or being cynical or criticizing...

GF, were you looking for a specific answer? To be honest, there was not a specific answer I was looking for only challenges to face the truth with courage. Through interaction with others I can better see myself. We are all mirrors for each other. Some better than others.

Now, before I head off to the doctors maybe you can see some truth in this..

*****************
I am supposedly a female black woman raised in the catholic church. Right?

Now who is to say I am female, but gender
Who is to say I am black, but race
And who is to say I should believe in god, but church.

These are not my truths but dogma and passed down institutionalized theories of who I should be when in fact all I am is a human being.
By taking on these theories as belief I then become conditioned in thinking accordingly and that is where I come up with "MY TRUTH" and not just truth. Can you see that? [/QUOTE]So your saying we're just human beings that's it...

I agree with that...and in your truth that's all you are...but when I see you...my truth becomes you are a Black woman...

My truth is, I am a Black woman and the two are unseperable, I wasn't one before the other...but YOUR TRUTH could very well be, I'm just a person...

no wrong or right...

the only absolute in this situation is that you are human...

Yours and Bold's philosophy's are more ideal than realistic...unfortunately history is a big reason why this way of thinking don't work... [/QUOTE]Ideals are applied, not lived.

mhd

05-09-2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
does history show our limitations or our excellence? good question...shouldn't it reflect both? [/QUOTE]maybe our excellence was achieved by our idealism and our limitiations were set by abdicating to "realism"

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
the only absolute in this situation is that you are human...
not according to scientology... ;) [/QUOTE]talk to me...what is scientology...and how can it argue that human is not human?

not trying to argue or criticize...

and do I need to put this disclaimer everytime I ask a question? [/QUOTE]they say we could be aliens...wooooOOOOOOOOoooooooo graemlins/scared.gif [/QUOTE]do they really? or are we? hmmmmmmm

RX

05-09-2003, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
does history show our limitations or our excellence? good question...shouldn't it reflect both? [/QUOTE]maybe our excellence was achieved by our idealism and our limitiations were set by abdicating to "realism" [/QUOTE]try it the other way, mark...

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
absolute logic can not exsist with humans due to morals and values...

you can't convince an Atheist there's a God..

you can't convince a Christian there isn't one...

your logical concepts look great on paper but would never work in reality...

I hope you don't think I am attacking you or being cynical or criticizing...

GF, were you looking for a specific answer? To be honest, there was not a specific answer I was looking for only challenges to face the truth with courage. Through interaction with others I can better see myself. We are all mirrors for each other. Some better than others.

Now, before I head off to the doctors maybe you can see some truth in this..

*****************
I am supposedly a female black woman raised in the catholic church. Right?

Now who is to say I am female, but gender
Who is to say I am black, but race
And who is to say I should believe in god, but church.

These are not my truths but dogma and passed down institutionalized theories of who I should be when in fact all I am is a human being.
By taking on these theories as belief I then become conditioned in thinking accordingly and that is where I come up with "MY TRUTH" and not just truth. Can you see that? [/QUOTE]So your saying we're just human beings that's it...

I agree with that...and in your truth that's all you are...but when I see you...my truth becomes you are a Black woman...

My truth is, I am a Black woman and the two are unseperable, I wasn't one before the other...but YOUR TRUTH could very well be, I'm just a person...

no wrong or right...

the only absolute in this situation is that you are human...

Yours and Bold's philosophy's are more ideal than realistic...unfortunately history is a big reason why this way of thinking don't work... [/QUOTE]Ideals are applied, not lived. [/QUOTE]It still wouldn't work

Friday

05-09-2003, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
...unfortunately history is a big reason why this way of thinking don't work... I must disagree, history is a big reason why we are all in the situation that we are all in...confusion, sorrow and anger. We are all conditioned by the past.

rob gregory

05-09-2003, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
absolute logic can not exsist with humans due to morals and values...

you can't convince an Atheist there's a God..

you can't convince a Christian there isn't one...

your logical concepts look great on paper but would never work in reality...

I hope you don't think I am attacking you or being cynical or criticizing...

GF, were you looking for a specific answer? To be honest, there was not a specific answer I was looking for only challenges to face the truth with courage. Through interaction with others I can better see myself. We are all mirrors for each other. Some better than others.

Now, before I head off to the doctors maybe you can see some truth in this..

*****************
I am supposedly a female black woman raised in the catholic church. Right?

Now who is to say I am female, but gender
Who is to say I am black, but race
And who is to say I should believe in god, but church.

These are not my truths but dogma and passed down institutionalized theories of who I should be when in fact all I am is a human being.
By taking on these theories as belief I then become conditioned in thinking accordingly and that is where I come up with "MY TRUTH" and not just truth. Can you see that? [/QUOTE]So your saying we're just human beings that's it...

I agree with that...and in your truth that's all you are...but when I see you...my truth becomes you are a Black woman...

My truth is, I am a Black woman and the two are unseperable, I wasn't one before the other...but YOUR TRUTH could very well be, I'm just a person...

no wrong or right...

the only absolute in this situation is that you are human...

Yours and Bold's philosophy's are more ideal than realistic...unfortunately history is a big reason why this way of thinking don't work... [/QUOTE]Ideals are applied, not lived. [/QUOTE]Bold,

Check your PM

Thanks.

TAD

05-09-2003, 02:17 PM

Look Inside Yourself

mhd

05-09-2003, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
...unfortunately history is a big reason why this way of thinking don't work... I must disagree, history is a big reason why we are all in the situation that we are all in...confusion, sorrow and anger. We are all conditioned by the past. [/QUOTE]exactly

mhd

05-09-2003, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
does history show our limitations or our excellence? good question...shouldn't it reflect both? [/QUOTE]maybe our excellence was achieved by our idealism and our limitiations were set by abdicating to "realism" [/QUOTE]try it the other way, mark... [/QUOTE]excellence achieved by limitation?

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 02:28 PM

Bold Soul Principle #4:

One can find an infinite number of reasons against, but if there exists one reason FOR, then for the Bold Soul, that is reason enough.

Pete Nice

05-09-2003, 02:28 PM

i swear i just fell off into the deep end. you are all crazy and that's a truth of perception from a bottle of absolute.... sorry for the bad humor.
talk about going out on a limb..... :D

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
...unfortunately history is a big reason why this way of thinking don't work... I must disagree, history is a big reason why we are all in the situation that we are all in...confusion, sorrow and anger. We are all conditioned by the past. [/QUOTE]Are we conditioned by the past? or born conditioned as Ms. X stated...

so what do we do with history?

TAC

05-09-2003, 02:37 PM

How many angels can fit on a pin head?

Discuss...

nev m

05-09-2003, 03:01 PM

Good question!! :D

Koffy Brown

05-09-2003, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
...unfortunately history is a big reason why this way of thinking don't work... I must disagree, history is a big reason why we are all in the situation that we are all in...confusion, sorrow and anger. We are all conditioned by the past. [/QUOTE]Are we conditioned by the past? or born conditioned as Ms. X stated...

so what do we do with history? [/QUOTE]Let me get out my Angel converter calculator... biggrinangel.gif just kidding

Bold Soul

05-09-2003, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by Ashaki:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by girlfriday:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
...unfortunately history is a big reason why this way of thinking don't work... I must disagree, history is a big reason why we are all in the situation that we are all in...confusion, sorrow and anger. We are all conditioned by the past. [/QUOTE]Are we conditioned by the past? or born conditioned as Ms. X stated...

so what do we do with history? [/QUOTE]Do with it as with all things - determine its value relative to a goal and either retain it or discard it.

nev m

05-09-2003, 03:06 PM

How did I miss all this? What was the original question again? I remember it was good!!

nev m

05-09-2003, 03:14 PM

Oh yeah! do you not think we're all changing all of the time.

Wherever you go in life the effects of what is going on in your life affects you as a person.

It could even be likened to an Acid trip because when you go on that trip the Magical bus picks you up from outside your house, yet you can almost be certain that when you get dropped off you're probably three doors down the road.

Same old thing!