View Full Version : How did you handle it?
Seeing as racism is such a hot topic on this board, I was curious to know people's last racist encounter. What happened? How did you react? Looking back is there anything you would change about your reaction at the time? Please share.
Jolyon
05-16-2003, 09:25 AM
A couple of years ago I was in black owned and mostly black frequented black music record shop and some twat said to me, "**** off out of here whitey. This music ain't for you."
Which was nice.
I ignored it (he was twice my size and mean looking and I wanted to carry on looking at records). Anyway, the record store owner told the guy to get out of the shop when he said the same thing to another white boy 10 minutes later.
It was hardly a pivotal moment of my life and pretty insignificant, but that was the last racist incident that happened to me. There have been others (having lived in large Asian and black communities on a number of occasions)...but that was the most unpleasant.
Originally posted by 6 23:
Seeing as racism is such a hot topic on this board, I was curious to know people's last racist encounter. What happened? How did you react? Looking back is there anything you would change about your reaction at the time? Please share. my american life IS a racist encounter, can you dig it? can you imagine it?
Care to share one experience from that life?
Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
Seeing as racism is such a hot topic on this board, I was curious to know people's last racist encounter. What happened? How did you react? Looking back is there anything you would change about your reaction at the time? Please share. my american life IS a racist encounter, can you dig it? can you imagine it? </font>[/QUOTE]i mean, really. change OUR reaction?
Or anything that went well about the encounter. What's your question MHD?
blackwax
05-16-2003, 09:42 AM
at the southport weekender 2 black guys came over and sat behind my record bar without permission
because they did not ask (+ we had a large amount of cash close by)I asked them to move politely as I found it disrespectful to find 2 people in a closed off area without even asking or introducing themselves bearing in mind there where plenty of other places to sit less than a metre away. after asking them one guy kicked of saying I was acusing him of being a thief (I never once mentined the cash close by)and I was only asking them too move because he was black and I should give him and his "people" more respect at this point it got heated and I explained respect should be earned and infact he was disrespectful for barging in on a closed area without introduction and his colour had got nothing to do with it.
at this point a friend came over (who is black) he asked if there was a problem so I explined the situation he then asked the guys to move along wich they did without question only shouting were only moving because the "brother" asked us to!
My friends reply was you aint a brother this white guy is my brother he got more soul than you
I felt like I had been singled out for being white
was this racism I am not sure but it did upset me
[ May 16, 2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: blackwax ]
well, blackwax, at least they explained WHY they didn't move (being a black woman, i don't get explanations very often - i just get treated like shit and the door slammed in my face)...and WHY is the only thing that matters, as you may have gathered from either the video above or "the matrix-reloaded" ;) ...
btw, 6 23, you didn't get what mark said? hon, the only way we, as black folk, can change our reaction is to change our entire being AND history...
and i'll leave the convo at that while y'all discuss stuff that most of us not go through, but live through...
[ May 16, 2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Ms Rickey X ]
Originally posted by 6 23:
Or anything that went well about the encounter. What's your question MHD? these "encounters" don't go well
blackwax
05-16-2003, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
well, blackwax, at least they explained WHY they didn't move (being a black woman, i don't get explanations very often - i just get treated like shit and the door slammed in my face)...and WHY is the only thing that matters, as you may have gathered from either the video above or "the matrix-reloaded" ;) ...
that sucks I can't see why people behave like that it sickens me it just in in me to behave that way if we ever meet I will certainly hold the door open for you smile.gif
darrow
05-16-2003, 10:07 AM
The last time I encountered an act that was clearly racist was back in 1988. I say "clearly" because there have been other incidents since then could've been chalked up to just plain bad human behavior. What motivates people to treat me a certain way is often difficult for me to figure out unless its obvious.
In '88, I was looking for an apartment and called the phone number listed in an apartment ad. The guy on the phone described the apartment and neighborhood and asked me a couple of questions. He then went on to talk about how the neighborhood was a nice neighborhood and how he and the neighbors did not want blacks in the neighborhood. "They ruin the neighborhood, you know", he said quite knowingly to me...like it was something I obviously would agree with, being that I'm white...NOT.
I let him dig himself in his little dark, dank racist hole for a few minutes and then let him know that "...by the way...I'm black." My my my...he sputtered a lot before he simply hung up the phone.
I wish I had recorded the whole conversation. Anyways, I reported his ass to the housing agency.
Oh...I don't think I would change how I reacted, though there have been times that I wish I had cussed him out or maybe not told him I was black and then made an appointment to see the place. That would've been interesting.
[ May 16, 2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: darrow ]
Originally posted by blackwax:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
well, blackwax, at least they explained WHY they didn't move (being a black woman, i don't get explanations very often - i just get treated like shit and the door slammed in my face)...and WHY is the only thing that matters, as you may have gathered from either the video above or "the matrix-reloaded" ;) ...
that sucks I can't see why people behave like that it sickens me it just in in me to behave that way if we ever meet I will certainly hold the door open for you smile.gif </font>[/QUOTE]look at the sweetie!!!! mmmwah! graemlins/remybussi.gif
julian_kelly
05-16-2003, 10:23 AM
Your right mhd graemlins/rofl.gif I cant think of any situation that has turned out for the better. Ive experience near death situation at the hands of cops twice. Ive been stopped by the cops so many times it dont make no sense graemlins/rofl.gif
Last time I experience racism was ummmm ... yesterday graemlins/rofl.gif It happens so much you just gotta pick and choose when to fight it graemlins/rofl.gif
julian kelly
Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
Or anything that went well about the encounter. What's your question MHD? these "encounters" don't go well </font>[/QUOTE]
Originally posted by julian_kelly:
It happens so much you just gotta pick and choose when to fight it graemlins/rofl.gif
[/QB][/QUOTE]
you betta choose, or you'll end up like mumia minus the media coverage...(can you BELIEVE he's STILL locked up?)
So my wording isn't the best. Pardons. By went well, I'm talking about situations that may have started off negatively but ended up a learning experience for all involved.
Ms. X, most of us do live through it that's why I'm interested in peoples responses. No need to change or deny a history in order to change a perspective/attitude/approach that's not helping any longer.
Originally posted by 6 23:
So my wording isn't the best. Pardons. By went well, I'm talking about situations that may have started off negatively but ended up a learning experience for all involved.
Ms. X, most of us do live through it that's why I'm interested in peoples responses. No need to change or deny a history in order to change a perspective/attitude/approach that's not helping any longer. why not focus on the perpetrators, in a racist country experiencing racism is axiomatic
Too much of a believer in fixing self first. Why focus on these perpetrators when there could be actions I could take that make them less of a focus?
Originally posted by 6 23:
Too much of a believer in fixing self first. Why focus on these perpetrators when there could be actions I could take that make them less of a focus? simple: you'll forever be changing...become at peace with yourself and fight back...
DeesKo
05-16-2003, 11:38 AM
At risk of sounding like the typical white boy trying to be "down"....
I have an interesting situation going on at work.
I'm white, my co-workers are white, my boss is white but I am treated in much the same ways that mhd and Rickey are describing on a daily, continual basis with the subtle innuendos and underlying attitudes.
Since we're all white, its hard to say its "racism" per say, except when you have co-workers who call you RIC, which is their long running joke towards me (not with me). Its my given nickname and RIC stands for Racial Identity Crisis.
On a daily basis I have people saying various typical smart assed antagonistic things to me because they view me as a "wigger" (which is a term someone else used in an attempt to describe me one time) etc etc etc.
I'm treated like sh*t by my boss because he's got this impression of me that I'm not a "team player" and that I'm not pulling my weight in the company even though statistically I accomplish twice as much as both of the other people in my group combined simply because he sees me as a young hip-hopper club kid who doesn't have a college degree and couldn't POSSIBLY really be THAT professional or intelligent.
For a specific incident...
For the 5 years I've worked here, whenever someone has had a family member pass away everyone in the department signs a card, pitches in some cash and gets some flowers for the family etc and of course the standard "take care of family, let us know when you're gonna come back but take care of that first" attitude.
Typical corporate america stuff.
My step-father passed away and the first thing my boss told me was "well remember the company policy is 3 days bereavement leave for an out-of-state death so anything above that you're using your own vacation time and you have that spreadsheet due to me by next week so at the very least you need to take your laptop and get it done."
No card.
No flowers.
No "sorry to hear about your loss".
Nothing.
Its more of an asshole move than anything else but then someone walks in my office and says "Hey RIC" and it reaks of all of the typical symptoms of perceived racism. I've joked about suing the company and started a precedent for same race racism cases but how could you ever realllllly prove that ?
Oh well...
wanna know something REALLY FREAKING FUNNY....
As I'm typing this, my office mate is showing off his IPOD and scrolling through his thousands of songs trying to impress me. He picks "Rockit" and proceeds to make the following comments :
Here's your music Rob, look I even have some of your music on here.
Isn't this your boy?
This is your music right?
All that wicky wicky stuff is your music right ?
ME: I love this song, turn it up.
Him: Your white, why would you listen to this, this is horrible.
A co-worker walked by, heard it in the hallway and says "oh my god what's that noise ?" and my office mate says "this is that hippy-hop stuff, I'm playing it for Rob because that's his music".
No joke.
Peace
Koffy Brown
05-16-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by julian_kelly:
It happens so much you just gotta pick and choose when to fight it graemlins/rofl.gif
</font>[/QUOTE]you betta choose, or you'll end up like mumia minus the media coverage...(can you BELIEVE he's STILL locked up?) [/QB][/QUOTE]
Don't get me started on that...Mumia Abdul Jamal that is....and NO but then again taking into consideration the JUST-US system...YES I can believe he's still locked up...
that's sad, deesko.
[ May 16, 2003, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Ms Rickey X ]
I brought in leftover noodles earlier this week for lunch.
Originally posted by Jolyon:
"**** off out of here whitey. This music ain't for you." .......It was hardly a pivotal moment of my life and pretty insignificant, but that was the last racist incident that happened to me. i can assure you the reverse would hardly be considered insignificant.
My "Racist" Experience:
Sometimes I work Thursdays (Hip Hop night) as a cashier for a club in a fairly diverse area of DC. One Thursday, a group of four came in. All happened to be Caucasian in their late 30s early 40s. They walked up to the window and one of the men from the group asked what night it was. I said Hip Hop.
"Hip Hop huh?" He repeats then turns and tells his friends. The ladies seem to be in a good mood, the other guy is alright with the music for the night. The first guy turns to me then says ...
"Hip Hop huh? .. How is it up there? Is it crowded?" I said "It's nice and full." He looks a little concerned. He leans in towards me and lowers his voice a bit.
"You're sure it's okay in there? It's safe?"
"Safe?" I asked
"Ya know, ya know what happens at events like this?" I tried to look as confused as possible and asked; "Er ... events like these? Hip Hop happens, what are you talking about?"
"Ya know!" He says ... I'm still looking confused.
"Do you mind if I go up and check it out first?" He asked. "To make sure it's safe?" I asked. At this point he's not sure whether I'm really that oblivious or catching on and 'not going there' with him. I held his ID while he ran up with one of the ladies.
He came down a few minutes later, the lady was still smiling and wanted to go in. He came up to me again and said ...
"Er ... I don't know, looks pretty dangerous in there ... They're wearing colours." I almost died laughing when he said this.
"I've got colours on too. Look, there's blue here and a little orange there." Blank stare back.
"You know what I mean, those people look threatening."
"Those people?" I asked. "Which ones? and er, why don't you think YOU look threatening?"
"'Cause I'm not-" I interrupted "Really? You're sure about that?" I watched him catch himself. He paused, introduced himself, and that was that.
Now I know all things don't go so well or smoothly - I'm just interested in stories people have to share they feel taught them something. I'm not always so patient and more dire situations have transpired but this encounter I found interesting.
Points and delivery ... now I know people have stories ... :D
Originally posted by 6 23:
Too much of a believer in fixing self first. Why focus on these perpetrators when there could be actions I could take that make them less of a focus? what is there to fix? some things you can ignore, kinda hard though when you are handcuffed,
[ May 16, 2003, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: mhd ]
Originally posted by DeesKo:
At risk of sounding like the typical white boy trying to be "down"....
I have an interesting situation going on at work.
I'm white, my co-workers are white, my boss is white but I am treated in much the same ways that mhd and Rickey are describing on a daily, continual basis with the subtle innuendos and underlying attitudes.
Since we're all white, its hard to say its "racism" per say, except when you have co-workers who call you RIC, which is their long running joke towards me (not with me). Its my given nickname and RIC stands for Racial Identity Crisis.
On a daily basis I have people saying various typical smart assed antagonistic things to me because they view me as a "wigger" (which is a term someone else used in an attempt to describe me one time) etc etc etc.
I'm treated like sh*t by my boss because he's got this impression of me that I'm not a "team player" and that I'm not pulling my weight in the company even though statistically I accomplish twice as much as both of the other people in my group combined simply because he sees me as a young hip-hopper club kid who doesn't have a college degree and couldn't POSSIBLY really be THAT professional or intelligent.
For a specific incident...
For the 5 years I've worked here, whenever someone has had a family member pass away everyone in the department signs a card, pitches in some cash and gets some flowers for the family etc and of course the standard "take care of family, let us know when you're gonna come back but take care of that first" attitude.
Typical corporate america stuff.
My step-father passed away and the first thing my boss told me was "well remember the company policy is 3 days bereavement leave for an out-of-state death so anything above that you're using your own vacation time and you have that spreadsheet due to me by next week so at the very least you need to take your laptop and get it done."
No card.
No flowers.
No "sorry to hear about your loss".
Nothing.
Its more of an asshole move than anything else but then someone walks in my office and says "Hey RIC" and it reaks of all of the typical symptoms of perceived racism. I've joked about suing the company and started a precedent for same race racism cases but how could you ever realllllly prove that ?
Oh well...
wanna know something REALLY FREAKING FUNNY....
As I'm typing this, my office mate is showing off his IPOD and scrolling through his thousands of songs trying to impress me. He picks "Rockit" and proceeds to make the following comments :
Here's your music Rob, look I even have some of your music on here.
Isn't this your boy?
This is your music right?
All that wicky wicky stuff is your music right ?
ME: I love this song, turn it up.
Him: Your white, why would you listen to this, this is horrible.
A co-worker walked by, heard it in the hallway and says "oh my god what's that noise ?" and my office mate says "this is that hippy-hop stuff, I'm playing it for Rob because that's his music".
No joke.
Peace man, i don't even know what to say about that. you better watch your back, or humour them to death
Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
Too much of a believer in fixing self first. Why focus on these perpetrators when there could be actions I could take that make them less of a focus? what is there to fix? some things you can ignore, kinda hard though when you are handcuffed, </font>[/QUOTE]Are we talking slavery now 'cause frankly all I know about it is what I've read. Please elaborate. I'd also like to read an experience if you care to share.
Hey Deesko ...
I relate more than you know
Same shitty issues in reverse ...
Bill Blake
05-16-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by mhd:
man, i don't even know what to say about that. you better watch your back, or humour them to death Damn right he better his back...sounds like a could get fired any minute situation.
Like Ive said fifty million ****ing times.
ALWAYS DRESS LIKE A REPUBLICAN.
Originally posted by 6 23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
Too much of a believer in fixing self first. Why focus on these perpetrators when there could be actions I could take that make them less of a focus? what is there to fix? some things you can ignore, kinda hard though when you are handcuffed, </font>[/QUOTE]Are we talking slavery now 'cause frankly all I know about it is what I've read. Please elaborate. I'd also like to read an experience if you care to share. </font>[/QUOTE]that's funny, no slavery, just america today. the real mystery is why it happens
So explain the handcuff reference,
as in ...
for example
I don't assume what you're referring to or really know. Literal if you will.
Originally posted by 6 23:
Are we talking slavery now 'cause frankly all I know about it is what I've read. yeah, mark...please tell us about it - i've only read about it, too...
6 23 - i take it you're a caucasian male...if i'm wrong, please correct me...but if you are, do you have the freedom to live as you want without being stereotyped? i mean, can you live in a mobile home without being called trailer trash? can you be a vet of the vietnam war and not be called a traitor? can you marry interracially (not necessarily black) and not be ostracized? can you immerse yourself in any other culture and not be talked about? can you not succeed in corporate america and not lose the respect of your family?
if the answer to any of these is no, you are a slave just like the folk we read about...
here is an example
Originally posted by julian_kelly:
Your right mhd graemlins/rofl.gif I cant think of any situation that has turned out for the better. Ive experience near death situation at the hands of cops twice. Ive been stopped by the cops so many times it dont make no sense graemlins/rofl.gif
Last time I experience racism was ummmm ... yesterday graemlins/rofl.gif It happens so much you just gotta pick and choose when to fight it graemlins/rofl.gif
julian kelly
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
Or anything that went well about the encounter. What's your question MHD? these "encounters" don't go well </font>[/QUOTE]</font>[/QUOTE]
6 23, i have a coupla questions for you...
-what exactly do your family say about black folk and others of different cultures? i mean, what do they say in normal conversation, at the dinner table, on vacations, etc.?
-do the members of your culture dissect their psychological innards as much as black folk do?
-what is your culture exactly?
Moksha
05-16-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by 6 23:
Seeing as racism is such a hot topic on this board, I was curious to know people's last racist encounter. What happened? How did you react? Looking back is there anything you would change about your reaction at the time? Please share. As a "white liberal (aka God's gift to the Negro)," it is impossible for me to experience, understand, or even comprehend racism. Sorry I can't contribute.
Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
Are we talking slavery now 'cause frankly all I know about it is what I've read. yeah, mark...please tell us about it - i've only read about it, too...
6 23 - i take it you're a caucasian male...if i'm wrong, please correct me...but if you are, do you have the freedom to live as you want without being stereotyped? i mean, can you live in a mobile home without being called trailer trash? can you be a vet of the vietnam war and not be called a traitor? can you marry interracially (not necessarily black) and not be ostracized? can you immerse yourself in any other culture and not be talked about? can you not succeed in corporate america and not lose the respect of your family?
if the answer to any of these is no, you are a slave just like the folk we read about... </font>[/QUOTE]Message boards are interesting to me 'cause people do come off so many ways. Common points of reference are far more important than historical timelines of pain. Just my opinion. Yes, unfortunately there are pre-existing conditions that are detrimental to my progress because of a history of this or that condition. I see that, BUT I NEVER consider myself a slave. When my family moved back to Nigeria, I asked my dad why he didn't want to stay here and he said mentality not wanting to be considered a slave and not constantly having to rebound off other's (Other Black people to include African) projected image of who you should be in response to this history. Is it easier to point out the ways one is a "slave" than believe that a Black person can look at an experience as slavery as history. I'm aware of the setbacks today - I just refuse in any way to entertain the drama of it.
I'm stereotyped all the time ...
Interestingly enough in my experience in the U.S. usually always negatively by Black people. I happen to be a 29 year old born in Nigeria female.
[ May 16, 2003, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: 6 23 ]
Originally posted by 6 23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
Are we talking slavery now 'cause frankly all I know about it is what I've read. yeah, mark...please tell us about it - i've only read about it, too...
6 23 - i take it you're a caucasian male...if i'm wrong, please correct me...but if you are, do you have the freedom to live as you want without being stereotyped? i mean, can you live in a mobile home without being called trailer trash? can you be a vet of the vietnam war and not be called a traitor? can you marry interracially (not necessarily black) and not be ostracized? can you immerse yourself in any other culture and not be talked about? can you not succeed in corporate america and not lose the respect of your family?
if the answer to any of these is no, you are a slave just like the folk we read about... </font>[/QUOTE]Message boards are interesting to me 'cause people do come off so many ways. Common points of reference are far more important than historical timelines of pain. Just my opinion. Yes, unfortunately there are pre-existing conditions that are detrimental to my progress because of a history of this or that condition. I see that, BUT I NEVER consider myself a slave. When my family moved back to Nigeria, I asked my dad why he didn't want to stay here and he said mentality not wanting to be considered a slave and not constantly having to rebound off other's (Other Black people to include African) projected image of who you should be in response to this history. Is it easier to point out the ways one is a "slave" than believe that a Black person can look at an experience as slavery as history. I'm aware of the setbacks today - I just refuse in any way to entertain the drama of it.
I'm stereotyped all the time ...
Interestingly enough in my experience in the U.S. usually always negatively by Black people. I happen to be a 29 year old born in Nigeria female. </font>[/QUOTE]your father is a wise man, my responses in this thread should make sense in the context of his refusal.
Originally posted by Orion:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
Seeing as racism is such a hot topic on this board, I was curious to know people's last racist encounter. What happened? How did you react? Looking back is there anything you would change about your reaction at the time? Please share. As a "white liberal (aka God's gift to the Negro)," it is impossible for me to experience, understand, or even comprehend racism. Sorry I can't contribute. </font>[/QUOTE]haha .. save that for someone who believes only white people can be racist.
Leslie
05-16-2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Orion:
[/qb]As a "white liberal (aka God's gift to the Negro)," it is impossible for me to experience, understand, or even comprehend racism. Sorry I can't contribute. [/QB][/QUOTE]
graemlins/rofl.gif
That's okay Konby, you know I still love you.
To answer the question, yesterday and I rolled my eyes because my Mom told me I can't go around cursing everybody out just cause they're an asshole.
So I was alone on an elevator and when a white man got on alone I grabbed my purse and held it close to my body and acted like I was scared he was gonna rob me...
now we're getting somewhere, 6 23...the folk that were slaves that we've read about were the same types of slaves that i eluded to in the post you've quoted - they were only "slaves" because of what someone said about them or what we've read about them - not in their minds and neither in their great-great-great-great-great grandchildren...
why i thought you were "white"? because you knew nothing of my culture...this is why you receive quite a bit of tension from black americans - because you have not taken the time to know about us - your brothers and sisters across the way...and, as hurtful, politically incorrect or silly as it may sound, YOU have that obligation to know as much as we know about you, if not more, because you reside in a country that we came from, that sent us here and that we no longer have ties to...
gosh, did that come off harsh? i hope not...wow.
[ May 16, 2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Ms Rickey X ]
Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
6 23, i have a coupla questions for you...
-what exactly do your family say about black folk and others of different cultures? i mean, what do they say in normal conversation, at the dinner table, on vacations, etc.?
-do the members of your culture dissect their psychological innards as much as black folk do?
-what is your culture exactly? I was born in Nigeria, moved to England when I was 2 for 7 years then back to Nigeria for 6 years and have been here for 15.
To be perfectly frank, my family has never discussed their "blackness" to the intensity I've seen on this board. It's so obvious to us it's become a moot point. We really only deal in how we feel and respond and get along. We're aware of the troubles people face but everything is always reduced to a human issue. Yes, that man may be a racist therefore I didn't get the job, ultimately you know what? It just sucks. And yes history has affected this outcome but what can I do in response right now? We think of history and learn and grow but I'm not a slave therefore I must keep on. I guess I sometimes think the mental agony of the attachment to slavery is hurting as much as the physical effects.
that's funny you said that - having never encountered or never having to continue to encounter what we have, you have every right to see our dissecting our "blackness" as foreign...
if we actually had a country to call our own, somewhere we could go to feel safe or "go back to" as your father has, somewhere in which our history lies at least 5% intact, i'd feel the same way, too...
again, the tension you receive from brothers and sisters here is tantamount to how you view us as being so very foreign...
Originally posted by 6 23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
6 23, i have a coupla questions for you...
-what exactly do your family say about black folk and others of different cultures? i mean, what do they say in normal conversation, at the dinner table, on vacations, etc.?
-do the members of your culture dissect their psychological innards as much as black folk do?
-what is your culture exactly? I was born in Nigeria, moved to England when I was 2 for 7 years then back to Nigeria for 6 years and have been here for 15.
To be perfectly frank, my family has never discussed their "blackness" to the intensity I've seen on this board. It's so obvious to us it's become a moot point. We really only deal in how we feel and respond and get along. We're aware of the troubles people face but everything is always reduced to a human issue. Yes, that man may be a racist therefore I didn't get the job, ultimately you know what? It just sucks. And yes history has affected this outcome but what can I do in response right now? We think of history and learn and grow but I'm not a slave therefore I must keep on. I guess I sometimes think the mental agony of the attachment to slavery is hurting as much as the physical effects. </font>[/QUOTE]well, one approach is to combat racism everywhere you encounter it so that it won't happen to the next person
Leslie
05-16-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by DeesKo:
At risk of sounding like the typical white boy trying to be "down"....
I have an interesting situation going on at work.
I'm white, my co-workers are white, my boss is white but I am treated in much the same ways that mhd and Rickey are describing on a daily, continual basis with the subtle innuendos and underlying attitudes.
Since we're all white, its hard to say its "racism" per say, except when you have co-workers who call you RIC, which is their long running joke towards me (not with me). Its my given nickname and RIC stands for Racial Identity Crisis.
On a daily basis I have people saying various typical smart assed antagonistic things to me because they view me as a "wigger" (which is a term someone else used in an attempt to describe me one time) etc etc etc.
I'm treated like sh*t by my boss because he's got this impression of me that I'm not a "team player" and that I'm not pulling my weight in the company even though statistically I accomplish twice as much as both of the other people in my group combined simply because he sees me as a young hip-hopper club kid who doesn't have a college degree and couldn't POSSIBLY really be THAT professional or intelligent.
For a specific incident...
For the 5 years I've worked here, whenever someone has had a family member pass away everyone in the department signs a card, pitches in some cash and gets some flowers for the family etc and of course the standard "take care of family, let us know when you're gonna come back but take care of that first" attitude.
Typical corporate america stuff.
My step-father passed away and the first thing my boss told me was "well remember the company policy is 3 days bereavement leave for an out-of-state death so anything above that you're using your own vacation time and you have that spreadsheet due to me by next week so at the very least you need to take your laptop and get it done."
No card.
No flowers.
No "sorry to hear about your loss".
Nothing.
Its more of an asshole move than anything else but then someone walks in my office and says "Hey RIC" and it reaks of all of the typical symptoms of perceived racism. I've joked about suing the company and started a precedent for same race racism cases but how could you ever realllllly prove that ?
Oh well...
wanna know something REALLY FREAKING FUNNY....
As I'm typing this, my office mate is showing off his IPOD and scrolling through his thousands of songs trying to impress me. He picks "Rockit" and proceeds to make the following comments :
Here's your music Rob, look I even have some of your music on here.
Isn't this your boy?
This is your music right?
All that wicky wicky stuff is your music right ?
ME: I love this song, turn it up.
Him: Your white, why would you listen to this, this is horrible.
A co-worker walked by, heard it in the hallway and says "oh my god what's that noise ?" and my office mate says "this is that hippy-hop stuff, I'm playing it for Rob because that's his music".
No joke.
Peace Lawdy where do you live?? graemlins/scared.gif You want me to come curse them out for you?
Originally posted by 6 23:
I guess I sometimes think the mental agony of the attachment to slavery is hurting as much as the physical effects. i think you may be confusing something here...we have no attachment to slavery, love...as i stated before, we've read about it in the same context as you and i'm surprised that you compare yourself to the victim (us) rather than the slave owner or "sellers"...
Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
now we're getting somewhere, 6 23...the folk that were slaves that we've read about were the same types of slaves that i eluded to in the post you've quoted - they were only "slaves" because of what someone said about them or what we've read about them - not in their minds and neither in their great-great-great-great-great grandchildren...
why i thought you were "white"? because you knew nothing of my culture...this is why you receive quite a bit of tension from black americans - because you have not taken the time to know about us - your brothers and sisters across the way...and, as hurtful, politically incorrect or silly as it may sound, YOU have that obligation to know as much as we know about you, if not more, because you reside in a country that we came from, that sent us here and that we no longer have ties to...
gosh, did that come off harsh? i hope not...wow. but do I really?
does anyone today physically know what the slaves went through? Not unless you lived that experience. Again this is why I think common points of reference are more important to how I relate with people than historical time lines of pain. I don't 'relate' to many Africans because our lives have exposed us to different things. I sometimes relate more to that white person that also happened to have lived in SE London in the 70s. Does that make me any less African? Of course not. What exactly are these steps people should take in order to relate? By the way I didn't take your question as harsh at all. smile.gif
Question??? I don't really understand this...
Why is it that know racism so well,, black americans are the first to tell someone "go back to your country" if they have some kind of disagreement another black person with an accent?? graemlins/conf44.gif
Why do people do what they are fighting so much against??
nigerians in london is not that unusual
darrow
05-16-2003, 01:44 PM
This is probably a thought for another thread, but I can bet that the "tension" is not necessarily due to her not knowing or empathizing with the Black experience here in America.
I think like in many group dynamics, those who stand out..those who can't quite be categorized...those who don't seem to fit a certain mold...receive tension. We see it in our childhood. We see the same dynamics as adults. Fit in or be labeled weird, strange, or better yet..."eclectic".
I often feel like a person from another planet, so maybe I'm just projecting.
of course african americans have never felt that
Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
I guess I sometimes think the mental agony of the attachment to slavery is hurting as much as the physical effects. i think you may be confusing something here...we have no attachment to slavery, love...as i stated before, we've read about it in the same context as you and i'm surprised that you compare yourself to the victim (us) rather than the slave owner or "sellers"... </font>[/QUOTE]Interesting question ... Again I guess 'cause I don't relate to the selling of people anymore than I relate to that type of slavery ...
SHEIK YERBOUTI
05-16-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by 6 23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
6 23, i have a coupla questions for you...
-what exactly do your family say about black folk and others of different cultures? i mean, what do they say in normal conversation, at the dinner table, on vacations, etc.?
-do the members of your culture dissect their psychological innards as much as black folk do?
-what is your culture exactly? I was born in Nigeria, moved to England when I was 2 for 7 years then back to Nigeria for 6 years and have been here for 15.
To be perfectly frank, my family has never discussed their "blackness" to the intensity I've seen on this board. It's so obvious to us it's become a moot point. We really only deal in how we feel and respond and get along. We're aware of the troubles people face but everything is always reduced to a human issue. Yes, that man may be a racist therefore I didn't get the job, ultimately you know what? It just sucks. And yes history has affected this outcome but what can I do in response right now? We think of history and learn and grow but I'm not a slave therefore I must keep on. I guess I sometimes think the mental agony of the attachment to slavery is hurting as much as the physical effects. </font>[/QUOTE]Exactly. It's the STIGMA of slavery, moreso than the process, obviously 400+ years after the fact. However the process created the ongoing stigma. Also, by your being AFRICAN, you still have your national ideals, national self image, etc. As African-Americans, "Cotton pickers" to some AFRICANS, there a huge gulf or understanding. We have very little if ANY AFRICA to go back to, in mind, body or spirit.
I find myself getting extremely jealous and regularly upset by other nationalities who willingly give up what we had stripped from us. There's not really anything but America for us and even though most of our roots go back 400+ years, we still are outsiders to a lot of immigrants who don't go back even half or a quarter of that time.
This is not a direct attack on you 6 23. Just commenting on the point you made and randomly venting... :rolleyes:
6 23, I recall asking you and Teresa about this sort of thing a while back after hanging at Kara's place - African versus African American views of racism and such. Very interesting discussion guys.
Koffy Brown
05-16-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by 6 23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
[qb]
I was born in Nigeria, moved to England when I was 2 for 7 years then back to Nigeria for 6 years and have been here for 15.
To be perfectly frank, my family has never discussed their "blackness" to the intensity I've seen on this board. It's so obvious to us it's become a moot point. We really only deal in how we feel and respond and get along. We're aware of the troubles people face but everything is always reduced to a human issue. Yes, that man may be a racist therefore I didn't get the job, ultimately you know what? It just sucks. And yes history has affected this outcome but what can I do in response right now? We think of history and learn and grow but I'm not a slave therefore I must keep on. I guess I sometimes think the mental agony of the attachment to slavery is hurting as much as the physical effects. </font>[/QUOTE]Just maybe your parents from Nigeria don't feel the need to grab on to their "blackness" the way some of us (me) do here in America is because they have a foundation and understanding of who they are...somehow...they missed the boat and weren't completely stripped of their cultural identity...
also, a Black Professor from Congo told me, he thinks it's a damn shame that kids can live and grow up in AFrica and not beaware of the struggles of their ancestors..i.e. Aparthied...to some it's important and to others it may not be as important...
Hey there toomuchtv, I read what you're saying and in a way I mean to challenge this assumed "extra pride" I have as an African. I wrote down the years I've lived in other countries as a way of saying that I too know the feeling of not belonging - and I was born in Lagos. I get called "yellow" and "nwa beke" (white man's child) and told regularly by Africans I don't look African. Ehhh ... to me that's not the issue. The issue is is that any different from this pain and loss of sense of belonging that Black americans (and I believe anyone can feel)?
Originally posted by darrow:
This is probably a thought for another thread, but I can bet that the "tension" is not necessarily due to her not knowing or empathizing with the Black experience here in America.
I think like in many group dynamics, those who stand out..those who can't quite be categorized...those who don't seem to fit a certain mold...receive tension. We see it in our childhood. We see the same dynamics as adults. Fit in or be labeled weird, strange, or better yet..."eclectic".
I often feel like a person from another planet, so maybe I'm just projecting. the "tension" surely comes from most africans not know black american history, hence how to come at us, for what we get from lots of africans are noses being turned up at us as if we should be more ________ than we are...
we get talked down to them very much - and don't ask me for specifics because i would very much prefer to keep calm, okay?
my maiden name is omowale...i would get cabs in less than 5 minutes when i call only to get a nigerian (and i know who they are because one of my best friends is amina lawal, and not the one up for trial ;) )...anyhoo, they'd pick me up and say, "so...you're nigerian?"
"no"
"well, is your husband nigerian?"
"nope?"
"well, where did you get that name from?"
"is that your business?"
(argument begins and someone gets no tip for the ride)
now, why is that?
[ May 16, 2003, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Ms Rickey X ]
Koffy Brown
05-16-2003, 01:56 PM
gosh, did that come off harsh? i hope not...wow. [/qb][/QUOTE]but do I really?
does anyone today physically know what the slaves went through? Not unless you lived that experience. Again this is why I think common points of reference are more important to how I relate with people than historical time lines of pain. I don't 'relate' to many Africans because our lives have exposed us to different things. I sometimes relate more to that white person that also happened to have lived in SE London in the 70s. Does that make me any less African? Of course not. What exactly are these steps people should take in order to relate? By the way I didn't take your question as harsh at all. smile.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]
we may not know the physical harm that slaves endured but we damn sure know of the psychological trauma that was passed down...
It can't be escaped, as long as we live under a system that was designed to exclude Black people which weren't even considered to be human beings, those effects will be felt...because slaves were emancipated, it doesn't mean that they were freed...and that's what has been passed on and on...and if that mentality was passed on, so was the mentality of the owners....
Originally posted by 6 23:
The issue is is that any different from this pain and loss of sense of belonging that Black americans (and I believe anyone can feel)? yep...it's YOUR country and you still have solace...we don't unless we buy the land...
darrow
05-16-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by darrow:
This is probably a thought for another thread, but I can bet that the "tension" is not necessarily due to her not knowing or empathizing with the Black experience here in America.
I think like in many group dynamics, those who stand out..those who can't quite be categorized...those who don't seem to fit a certain mold...receive tension. We see it in our childhood. We see the same dynamics as adults. Fit in or be labeled weird, strange, or better yet..."eclectic".
I often feel like a person from another planet, so maybe I'm just projecting. the "tension" surely comes from most africans not know black american history, hence how to come at us, for what we get from lots of africans are noses being turned up at us as if we should be more ________ than we are...
we get talked down to them very much - and don't ask me for specifics because i would very much prefer to keep calm, okay?
my maiden name is omowale...i would get cabs in less than 5 minutes when i call only to get a nigerian (and i know who they are because one of my best friends is amina lawal, and not the one up for trial ;) )...anyhoo, they'd pick me up and say, "so...you're nigerian?"
"no"
"well, is your husband nigerian?"
"nope?"
"well, where did you get that name from?"
"is that your business?"
(argument begins and someone gets no tip for the ride)
now, why is that? </font>[/QUOTE]I should qualify my post by saying that I've come to know 6 23 a bit in the 3D/non-msg-board world and "not fitting in" is something I could see in her particular situation. I don't dispute the things you pointed out though.
Originally posted by darrow:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by darrow:
This is probably a thought for another thread, but I can bet that the "tension" is not necessarily due to her not knowing or empathizing with the Black experience here in America.
I think like in many group dynamics, those who stand out..those who can't quite be categorized...those who don't seem to fit a certain mold...receive tension. We see it in our childhood. We see the same dynamics as adults. Fit in or be labeled weird, strange, or better yet..."eclectic".
I often feel like a person from another planet, so maybe I'm just projecting. the "tension" surely comes from most africans not know black american history, hence how to come at us, for what we get from lots of africans are noses being turned up at us as if we should be more ________ than we are...
we get talked down to them very much - and don't ask me for specifics because i would very much prefer to keep calm, okay?
my maiden name is omowale...i would get cabs in less than 5 minutes when i call only to get a nigerian (and i know who they are because one of my best friends is amina lawal, and not the one up for trial ;) )...anyhoo, they'd pick me up and say, "so...you're nigerian?"
"no"
"well, is your husband nigerian?"
"nope?"
"well, where did you get that name from?"
"is that your business?"
(argument begins and someone gets no tip for the ride)
now, why is that? </font>[/QUOTE]I should qualify my post by saying that I've come to know 6 23 a bit in the 3D/non-msg-board world and "not fitting in" is something I could see in her particular situation. I don't dispute the things you pointed out though. </font>[/QUOTE]again, that is not a unique situation
Originally posted by darrow:
I should qualify my post by saying that I've come to know 6 23 a bit in the 3D/non-msg-board world and "not fitting in" is something I could see in her particular situation. I don't dispute the things you pointed out though. none of us fit in, darrow, especially if we're house...see? 6 23's a victim of history whether she knows it or not - and it's not her fault...but to know that history is to have something in common with the folk you don't want to be at odds with...
i could get deeper, but that would be airing too much laundry...however, i surely would like to have a face-to-face one day...
i now humbly bid you all adieu graemlins/acclaim.gif
darrow
05-16-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by mhd:
again, that is not a unique situation I'm not sure what you mean, mhd.
Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by darrow:
I should qualify my post by saying that I've come to know 6 23 a bit in the 3D/non-msg-board world and "not fitting in" is something I could see in her particular situation. I don't dispute the things you pointed out though. none of us fit in, darrow, especially if we're house...see? 6 23's a victim of history whether she knows it or not - and it's not her fault...but to know that history is to have something in common with the folk you don't want to be at odds with...
i could get deeper, but that would be airing too much laundry...however, i surely would like to have a face-to-face one day...
i now humbly bid you all adieu graemlins/acclaim.gif </font>[/QUOTE]have a good weekend, pistons are going down tonite AI gonna put them to sleep, also, got some more info on your boy kwame
lola desire
05-16-2003, 02:09 PM
this was when i was still in school in central illinois (u of i-champaign). i was at this bar dancing with my friends--central illinois, bar, lots of white folks, you get the picture. this tubby white dude and his buddies kept looking at me and my friends all damn evening. at that time my dreadlocks were short and i had them in two bushy ponytails (i loved that hairstyle!). his staring and beer drinking continued through the night.
it was getting late and the show was over so my friends and i started heading toward the door. as i began to walk down the stairs the dude said "bye buckwheat." i turned right around and looked him dead in the eye. i kept my eyes locked on him as i approached.
although i was looking at him i was so filled with rage i couldn't really see him. i remember his friends getting really nervous and apoligizing for him. i remember the nice lady at the door getting really worried that some sh*t was going to go down. i remember deciding not to hit him because he was significantly bigger and i didn't know where to land the hit to hurt him enough so that he could feel the anger i felt. i remember thinking "i wish i had something really good to say that will put him in his place."
i walked right up to him and said "if you can't handle your alcohol, you need to leave it alone." i immediatly thought "that sucked... but anyway". regarless, my message--i'm not going to sit up and let you act any kinda way and not say anything--was delivered.
i turned around and left immediately. i remember all of the people who i passed on the way out were acting all apologetic. i saw a few of my friends on the walk home and the more i explained the events of the night the more enraged i became.
this rage went on for about 2 weeks until one afternoon i wrote a poem. really the poem just flowed through me. after that i felt a lot better.
SHEIK YERBOUTI
05-16-2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by 6 23:
Hey there toomuchtv, I read what you're saying and in a way I mean to challenge this assumed "extra pride" I have as an African. I wrote down the years I've lived in other countries as a way of saying that I too know the feeling of not belonging - and I was born in Lagos. I get called "yellow" and "nwa beke" (white man's child) and told regularly by Africans I don't look African. Ehhh ... to me that's not the issue. The issue is is that any different from this pain and loss of sense of belonging that Black americans (and I believe anyone can feel)? Gotcha. I didn't mean to infer any "extra" pride. I just meant that as an African, you still have a basic African national identity that African Americans lack here in America. However, I can also understand the insults based on your physical makeup.
Please don't take my 'physical makeup' line the wrong way. I took a second to re-read that post and I don't mean to imply anything. If that line reads wrong, I apologize.
While African Americans have an American national identity, our relationship w/the USA has been so contentious that some of us still don't feel like this is our home. We just live here.
i obviously can't speak for those who left their countries due to political reasons, ie Cubans for example, but when the various governmental pressures are released, ultimately that nation is still "home," and that's where they will ultimately attempt to return to.
As per MYOR and the "Go back to your own country" statements, I have felt like saying that many a time myself. But of course, the truth is they DO have a country to go back to. Or at least they have a point of reference.
However, I have heard differing opinions on that.
[ May 16, 2003, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: toomuchtv ]
Originally posted by darrow:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
again, that is not a unique situation I'm not sure what you mean, mhd. </font>[/QUOTE]the whole notion of fitting in, we have all been "one of" or the "first" or "only"
darrow
05-16-2003, 02:13 PM
Unfortunately I did not connect the dots of my thoughts well and probably still won't.
I was responding to the notion that 6 23's particular tension with blacks was only due to her having little knowldege of black american history.
Coming to know her and relating to what I'll call feeling-like-i'm-from-another-planet, my thoughts went to how easy it is for there to be tension in group dynamics when one individual stands out against the many.
People within a certain group play fairly nice with each other as long their is a commonality, but step outside of that commonality and there is tension.
That's really all I was trying to say.
darrow
05-16-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by darrow:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
again, that is not a unique situation I'm not sure what you mean, mhd. </font>[/QUOTE]the whole notion of fitting in, we have all been "one of" or the "first" or "only" </font>[/QUOTE]true. I'm not sure why you bring that up though.
anything beyond a one liner MHD?
Ms. Rickey, I laugh because I know what you're speaking of as an African and as a "passing for" "look like" "could be." Black american. I've stood in African food stores and had Africans insult me in my own language. Shit cracks me up.
Ashaki you say I have somewhere to run to?
Do I really?
I go "home" and feel the same sense of not belonging that I feel everywhere else. All I'm still left with is how I choose to feel about it or respond to it. There's more to it than just having a place to call home. Yeah, I call it that ... now what else? ;)
Originally posted by mhd:
have a good weekend, pistons are going down tonite AI gonna put them to sleep, also, got some more info on your boy kwame [/QB][/QUOTE]
you, too...send me a pm on kwame (his press conference was historical to say the least)...detroit gonna graemlins/spanka.gif
DeesKo
05-16-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Leslie:
Lawdy where do you live?? graemlins/scared.gif You want me to come curse them out for you? Good ole Washington DC.
Well... Northern Virginia, about 10-15 mins outside of the city proper.
Trust me, there are days where I get really really heated about things but my mortgage company don't really care about none of this, so you knowwwwwwww..... gotta do what you gotta do.
Life ain't perfect.
Peace
Koffy Brown
05-16-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by 6 23:
anything beyond a one liner MHD?
Ms. Rickey, I laugh because I know what you're speaking of as an African and as a "passing for" "look like" "could be." Black american. I've stood in African food stores and had Africans insult me in my own language. Shit cracks me up.
Ashaki you say I have somewhere to run to?
Do I really?
I go "home" and feel the same sense of not belonging that I feel everywhere else. All I'm still left with is how I choose to feel about it or respond to it. There's more to it than just having a place to call home. Yeah, I call it that ... now what else? ;) I didn't say you had some place to run to...but you as an African have a foundation, a center, something to grasp...Dr. Na'im Akbar has said it best...we (AA) are in a caotic state of being right now because we don't have a center...the point isn't how much hell your life is there "back home"...but it's home...it doesn't mean you have to like it, it doesn't mean that it's the best life, but it's yours...
It's all about divide and conquer...and I will not engage in a conversation about who has it worse, who suffered the most due to slavery, shit we all suffered in unmeasurable amounts...and tell your dad it's not about "holding" on to blackness as much as it's about "embracing"
MHenderson
05-16-2003, 02:30 PM
I think continental African can relate to what has happened to Africans in America. They have experienced it in their own back yard. When the European powers went into Africa they tried to strip them of their culture by giving them "civilized" religion. The Priest/missionaries would go in with the Bible and learn about the local culture. Then the trading companies would come in and take the land that didn't belong to them and force people to move from a place where they have lived since before the Europeans came out of their caves. Once this happened they no longer could live their live in thier traditional fashion thus creating a type of slavery. So you have the land you take the resources and you get the people to work it for next to nothing while still staying in power and getting away with crimes like rape because now this area is a colony of France, UK, Portugal or Belgium. You also have to realize that the majority of these countries didn't gain their independence until what the 60's or 70's. Yes they can say I'm Yoruba or Jolla or Fulani but I think they have experienced some of the same things in their own back yard as we have here in America.
Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
anything beyond a one liner MHD?
Ms. Rickey, I laugh because I know what you're speaking of as an African and as a "passing for" "look like" "could be." Black american. I've stood in African food stores and had Africans insult me in my own language. Shit cracks me up.
Ashaki you say I have somewhere to run to?
Do I really?
I go "home" and feel the same sense of not belonging that I feel everywhere else. All I'm still left with is how I choose to feel about it or respond to it. There's more to it than just having a place to call home. Yeah, I call it that ... now what else? ;) I didn't say you had some place to run to...but you as an African have a foundation, a center, something to grasp...Dr. Na'im Akbar has said it best...we (AA) are in a caotic state of being right now because we don't have a center...the point isn't how much hell your life is there "back home"...but it's home...it doesn't mean you have to like it, it doesn't mean that it's the best life, but it's yours...
It's all about divide and conquer...and I will not engage in a conversation about who has it worse, who suffered the most due to slavery, shit we all suffered in unmeasurable amounts...and tell your dad it's not about "holding" on to blackness as much as it's about "embracing" </font>[/QUOTE]Embracing ...
I certainly wasn't going for an argument on who suffered most either. I think this way sometimes. Everything I do, I do as a (generally defined and perceived as) Black person blah, blah. What's to embrace? Maybe I don't like my "naps" and I relax them to look "whiter." Now I'm a Black person with image issues. I'm still Black right? I work on setting up different criteria with which to be judged by and relate to others with. One based more on commonality of feeling.
I have to reduce things to simple components in order to process. People's responses have me thinking. smile.gif
Koffy Brown
05-16-2003, 02:58 PM
Embracing ...
I certainly wasn't going for an argument on who suffered most either. I think this way sometimes. Everything I do, I do as a (generally defined and perceived as) Black person blah, blah. What's to embrace? Maybe I don't like my "naps" and I relax them to look "whiter." Now I'm a Black person with image issues. I'm still Black right? I work on setting up different criteria with which to be judged by and relate to others with. One based more on commonality of feeling.
I have to reduce things to simple components in order to process. People's responses have me thinking. smile.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]
Embracing who I was which included embracing my naps, my history, my life now, my life tomorrow, my big nose, my big lips...all of the above...these are things about me I can't let go...what some should realize that rather you accept your naps, your nose, your lips etc...your still Black...Me accepting and embracing doesn't make me no Black(er) than the next Black man/woman rather he is African or African American..I've just chosen to realize that I can't change it, accept it, move on and be happy with it...I'm not "holding" on to anything because it is what it is...I am probably the most misunderstood...have a good weekend :D
[ May 16, 2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]
Originally posted by 6 23:
What's to embrace? Maybe I don't like my "naps" and I relax them to look "whiter." Now I'm a Black person with image issues. I'm still Black right? I work on setting up different criteria with which to be judged by and relate to others with. One based more on commonality of feeling.
I have to reduce things to simple components in order to process. People's responses have me thinking. smile.gif now...where did THAT some from? wooo...sho you ain't from the states?
Originally posted by Ashaki:
Embracing ...
I certainly wasn't going for an argument on who suffered most either. I think this way sometimes. Everything I do, I do as a (generally defined and perceived as) Black person blah, blah. What's to embrace? Maybe I don't like my "naps" and I relax them to look "whiter." Now I'm a Black person with image issues. I'm still Black right? I work on setting up different criteria with which to be judged by and relate to others with. One based more on commonality of feeling.
I have to reduce things to simple components in order to process. People's responses have me thinking. smile.gif
Embracing who I was which included embracing my naps, my history, my life now, my life tomorrow, my big nose, my big lips...all of the above...these are things about me I can't let go...what some should realize that rather you accept your naps, your nose, your lips etc...your still Black...Me accepting and embracing doesn't make me no Black(er) than the next Black man/woman rather he is African or African American..I've just chosen to realize that I can't change it, accept it, move on and be happy with it...I'm not "holding" on to anything because it is what it is...I am probably the most misunderstood...have a good weekend :D I hear you ..
I guess some things aren't issues for me the way they are for others. What I've processed as how it is (stuff you listed for example) is - how it is. If a person is that caught up on the gotta be this way to be "right," then I don't relate to that either. I realized long ago that opinions ... like assholes heh, heh.
Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 6 23:
What's to embrace? Maybe I don't like my "naps" and I relax them to look "whiter." Now I'm a Black person with image issues. I'm still Black right? I work on setting up different criteria with which to be judged by and relate to others with. One based more on commonality of feeling.
I have to reduce things to simple components in order to process. People's responses have me thinking. smile.gif now...where did THAT some from? wooo...sho you ain't from the states? </font>[/QUOTE]Elaborate please?
i was about to type that i am getting about 30-40% of this, then i saw your comment about dave chapelle on ds. those two thoughts made me laugh
(Im)poster
05-16-2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Leslie:
So I was alone on an elevator and when a white man got on alone I grabbed my purse and held it close to my body and acted like I was scared he was gonna rob me... Hahahahahahahaha graemlins/rofl.gif When I am walking and a group of young white males approaches me I always cross the street quickly. I do this just to see the reaction. It's a trip, though, Les. Imagine if a white man did try to steal your purse on the street and you were trying to fight him for it and then the cops came. Who would they aid? Who would they try to arrest? I think about stuff like that all the time when I walk the streets of the mostly white town where I live. That's the effects of racism internalized.
houseaddict
05-16-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by darrow:
The last time I encountered an act that was clearly racist was back in 1988. I say "clearly" because there have been other incidents since then could've been chalked up to just plain bad human behavior. What motivates people to treat me a certain way is often difficult for me to figure out unless its obvious.
In '88, I was looking for an apartment and called the phone number listed in an apartment ad. The guy on the phone described the apartment and neighborhood and asked me a couple of questions. He then went on to talk about how the neighborhood was a nice neighborhood and how he and the neighbors did not want blacks in the neighborhood. "They ruin the neighborhood, you know", he said quite knowingly to me...like it was something I obviously would agree with, being that I'm white...NOT.
I let him dig himself in his little dark, dank racist hole for a few minutes and then let him know that "...by the way...I'm black." My my my...he sputtered a lot before he simply hung up the phone.
I wish I had recorded the whole conversation. Anyways, I reported his ass to the housing agency.
Oh...I don't think I would change how I reacted, though there have been times that I wish I had cussed him out or maybe not told him I was black and then made an appointment to see the place. That would've been interesting. One can always play Monday morning quarterback on this one. I woulda said, "Great, thanks for the info!" and hung up the phone. Then I would go to radio shack and bought the cheapest telephone recorder I could, called his ass back, told him I was somebody else so he would repeat his stupid ass and then you woulda had something!
That shit goes on all the time whether it be toward black, asian, latino, gay, etc. Its wrong.
When I was Bar Mitzvah'd one of the assignements was to take the portion of the torah (read Jewish bible) we recited at each of our Bar Mitzvah's and write and recite a speech based on your portion's contents. My portion spoke of Moses leading the slaves through the desert and setting up camp one night. He gave each of them chores to do and blew the shofar (ram's horn) to call them nack to camp for dinner. I used this as my opportunity to alert (as Moses did) all three hundred people gathered at my Bar Mitzvah to the racism that continues to exist in our society. Here I am, 13 years old preaching to people as old as 70-80.
Unfortunately, racism is something that will continue on regardless of how you and I relate to one another. It goes on around the world. You have people bruning and beating one another in India, the former Yugoslavia, Israel, Palestine, America, Africa, Chechnya, etc. I could go on.
We can only look out for ourselves and one another, but there is only so much we can do for the rest of mankind.
(Im)poster
05-16-2003, 06:15 PM
Interesting thread. Some of its points reinforce my decision to call myself "a person of African descent living in America." How many of us so called black or African-American people really have any link to Africa at all, though we might embrace it, study it, long to connect and feel at "home" if we get there? Culturally we are American, but how many of us feel like we really belong here? What really defines who we are and where we belong any way? Is it race or nationality or culture? I see myself as an individual made up of all my varied experiences but others tend to see me as a skin color first. I long to be free of the burden of "black"-ness. I imagine that in Africa, if I were African, I could experience that freedom -- the freedom to just "be." I think that is why Africans who come here can't fully understand our experience in America. Because most everyone there is the same race, they have been "people" while we are "blacks." It works both ways 6 23. We have been seen and judged by race first and we see you and judge you by race first as well. Because you might look like some of us, we expect you to be somehow like us. And if you resist that, it is usually interpreted as your feeling superior to us. Does that make sense?
imported_Gman
05-16-2003, 06:43 PM
The most recent experience (last week) actually happened to a friend of mind when I was in her company. She works for the department of Pathology. We regularly get together and talk about job issues like raises and problems we might be having with co-workers. Anyway she with my encouragement has been successful in talking her boss into long overdue raises to compensate her for the job that she is really doing. Her co-workers have not been happy about this because they have been denied raises in the past. So we come out of her office and catch the trail end of a conversation some of the other white office staff were having about my friend which ended in the comments "that fat black bitch, who does she think she is". When they saw us standing there you should have seen them scatter. My only reaction was just shaking my head. My friend looked at me and said now see what I'm talkin about.
Whenever I go into a grocery store or similar place its very noticeable that white women move quickly toward their purse if left in the cart when I come down the isle. Some actually grab the purse and put it over their shoulder. Doesn’t pay to take any chances you know :D
[ May 16, 2003, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: Gman ]
(Im)poster
05-17-2003, 03:45 AM
I am still thinking about this thread. The most recent example of racism I have experienced is the Jayson Blair situation. If Jayson Blair were African, living in an African country working at an African newspaper, he would not be judged by race but by his work and, perhaps, according to his relationship with those in power. Since he is a person with dark skin living in America he is seen first as "black," an affirmative action hire -- not simply a journalist with poor character and questionable work ethic. Here, based on what I'm reading in the papers, his skin color is more a factor in this than his lack of character. The fact that some are now questioning the skills of other reporters with dark skin is, to me, racism on the grand scale. Regardless of how many experienced "black" New York Times reporters are working long hours doing excellent, well researched and well documented journalism, in racist minds they are all thought to be less capable, affirmative action hires getting special breaks and advancing not because of talent, work ethic and/or smart politics, but because of mandates -- which they don't support -- to give America's newsrooms some color and, its news coverage more fairness and balance.
For me, racism continues in the minds of liberal white managers who -- sometimes subconsciously -- believe people with dark skin are inherently less capable and so hold them to a lower standard and never lean on them to produce their best work or really groom/train them for advancement as they would a white person with similar skills. Nevertheless, they will still push forward such unseasoned people without question, following a dangerous right-thing-to-do mindset.
In my own work, I have such racist experiences. How do I handle it? I work my ass off, I check my product for defects, I ask for feedback so I can improve, I am conscious of my work relationships. I study white co-workers who succeed and -- to the extent I don't feel I'm selling out -- I model my workplace behavior. In the end, in my mind, I am pretty much like my white peers -- smart, ambitious, hard-working. But somehow someone always reminds me, often subtly, that they consider me "black" first, an affirmative action hire advancing not because of my work or relationships but because of the system. How much more can I possibly change my behavior or my thinking to deal with that?
Originally posted by (Im)poster:
It works both ways 6 23. We have been seen and judged by race first and we see you and judge you by race first as well. Because you might look like some of us, we expect you to be somehow like us. And if you resist that, it is usually interpreted as your feeling superior to us. Does that make sense?Makes a lot of sense to me.
I'm curious about what I perceive as the assumption from those I've had "issue" with that I feel superior hence their arms length treatment. The dynamics of it all are even stranger to me 'cause I have 4 younger brothers and a sister who are all here in the states. All going or have attended college here. Their relationships are quite the opposite. They have a very balanced mix of friends Africans + Black americans. They didn't do anything any differently that I can see that would result in such a vast difference.
Perhaps what is mistaken as a superiority 'tude is me cracking up at the ways I do resist being labeled and seeing the reaction to that resistance re-inforce the reasons I resist being labeled. Labels overly complicate things for me sometimes. I do think about better ways to describe what I feel is going on within me to someone else and being receptive to another's attempts to share. Often the best way I can do that is by pulling in our common point of reference. Hasn't been too hard to find at least one so far.
I couldn't give one uniform definition of an American so why let the assumptions I have built up hold my mind so tight I'm not content with the knowledge that what I know couldn't apply to all -even in the face of evidence.
steve
05-17-2003, 06:40 AM
well I could tell some stories that are true but I think it would just make
people on the message board very mad and conjure up more hatred.
My grandfather told me he worked at a radio station back in the 1950's on
Rute 66 .
The highlight of the morning show was the daily n**** joke.
Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
6 23, i have a coupla questions for you...
-what exactly do your family say about black folk and others of different cultures? i mean, what do they say in normal conversation, at the dinner table, on vacations, etc.?
-do the members of your culture dissect their psychological innards as much as black folk do?
-what is your culture exactly?
They'd better be funny! graemlins/tongueout.gif J/k
How do your stories tie in to the question I asked at the start of the thread?
(Im)poster
05-17-2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by 6 23:
Labels overly complicate things for me sometimes. I do think about better ways to describe what I feel is going on within me to someone else and being receptive to another's attempts to share. Often the best way I can do that is by pulling in our common point of reference. I do exactly the same in terms of trying to find commonalities and have spoken similarly about labels myself. Perhaps your experience is different from that of your siblings because you are more of a free-thinking, individualistic type and therefore more resistant to fitting in or being judged based of some physical characteristic. Just speculating here. I think what Ms. Rickey X said about us all being "different" because we are house people -- regardless of race (note Deesko's experiences) -- is on point. That would compound the sense of difference or not belonging that any of us might already feel for a variety of reasons, including being a person of African descent living in "white" America.
Perhaps what you are getting at with this thread is that we need to be who we are and transcend what might come at us from others in terms of slurs, being underestimated, hated. Really, even for those of us who have a strong sense of self, it's just hard to keep going in the face of such consistent negative experiences without becoming angry and defensive. If you do not share the sense of oppression that many "black" people in America still feel, be thankful that your life experiences have endowed you with a more balanced frame of reference. If you are able to rise above racism, that's one less thing to overcome.
[ May 17, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: (Im)poster ]
is it possible that things are the way you want them to be?
(Im)poster
05-17-2003, 11:11 AM
Removed.
[ May 17, 2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: (Im)poster ]
Bold Soul
05-17-2003, 11:42 AM
My grandfather's mother was tarred and feathered for being married to a Black man. She died because she would not give him up. Not even to save her life. My grandfather escaped and moved North - marrying the daughter of a Sicilian woman and a Black man of mixed race. From them, came my mother and her brothers.
How would I have handled it? I guess by moving North and marrying someone who reminded me of my mother, who died for the right to love whomever she wanted, regardless of the ASININE racial views of others like her.
(Im)poster
05-17-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by mhd:
is it possible that things are the way you want them to be? If the question was for me: Things certainly are not the way I want them to be, and I suppose one might surmise that from my tone.
nev m
05-18-2003, 05:02 AM
Originally posted by (Im)poster:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
is it possible that things are the way you want them to be? If the question was for me: Things certainly are not the way I want them to be, and I suppose one might surmise that from my tone. </font>[/QUOTE]--------------------------------------------------
It's even easy for an outsider to see prejudice, and feel the tension in America. The most prominent from the police.
In NY at new year there were five police shootings all of the victims black males under the age of 20 one of them in Harlem was shot dead for stealing a f*****g burger!
When I was reading the paper on New Years day it was so hard for me to comprehend, and yet it was nothing out of the ordinary to my other half who was used to dealing with it all the time.I had always known that America was ****ed up, but it was that moment for me that made me realize how much.
Considering it's now the 21st century things haven't really come on all that much have they?
nev m
05-18-2003, 05:04 AM
Answering the question, myself, and my partner get dirty looks on almost a daily basis.
(Im)poster
05-18-2003, 06:50 AM
Originally posted by nev m:
Answering the question, myself, and my partner get dirty looks on almost a daily basis. Yeah, it's because she's American. ;) I thought the Brits were above all that? :D J/k, I know some people will, unfortunately, always find reasons to distrust and dislike each other. In places where the population looks pretty much the same, people will divide themselves based on religion or "class" or country of origin.
Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand
05-18-2003, 07:48 AM
My last racist encounter was a while ago with another black woman.
I went to a fast food joint, ordered food waiting 20 minutes or more and finally I complained. I asked why didn't I have my order yet after seeing 5 people after me order get theirs. The girl first ignored me after I stood there another 5 minutes getting her attention, then she decided to give me a second of her time and told me "You have to wait just like everybody else. You ain't special, I am tired of high yella girls coming in here hollering at me like I am a second class citizen." I was like graemlins/scared.gif You gotta be kidding me, I was very nice, very calm asking for my order and she cut loose with that nonsense. I asked for a manager and she quickly snapped at me "I am the manager, and complaints don't mean nothing around here." So I played it cool told her to give mmy money back, cussed her out and reported that restaurant along with her to their headquarters.
So racism isn't just black and white. I've encountered racism within my own race more than with non-Black people and no I don't even pass for White either. My features are very Non-White, I got the kinky hair, full lips and not to mention the family trademark of butt,hips and thighs. :eek: That chick had a complex and took it out on me. graemlins/conf44.gif
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