America and revenge...

[ngeso]

again, the "f*cking unbelievable"-thread has me wondering about how people in the US, the american judiciary system, public opinion, third parties - (electric chairs, quintouple life sentences, the current war and so on and so on and so on) - are highly motivated by feelings of revenge.

what's the deal? an eye for an eye, or what?

[JMNYC]

Everybody here is trained quite well - through school, church, sunday school, parents, TV - to be quick to judge.

For all those calling for ANYBODY to EVER be killed, tortured, castrated as punishment ... if that was your brother or mother or father who was SICK and obviously out of his or her right mind, would you STILL resemble one of the enraged villagers in Frankenstein?

Let he WHO IS WITHOUT SIN cast the first stone. C'mon -- where are you? oh, that's right - we're a nation of judgemental SINNERS.

ngeso,thank you for bringing up a VERY important point that will surely fly right over their heads, since they are all too busy watching Law & Order or "the game" or "the news" :rolleyes: on TV.

[Pete Nice]

we're human and we will always be prisoners of our most primitive emotions. had this child a been a relative of yours, what would you want to happen? why should this man be allowed to have any sort of life???? justice and revenge can sleep in the same bed.

[jpsf]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
Everybody here is trained quite well - through school, church, sunday school, parents, TV - to be quick to judge.

For all those calling for ANYBODY to EVER be killed, tortured, castrated as punishment ... if that was your brother or mother or father who was SICK and obviously out of his or her right mind, would you STILL resemble one of the enraged villagers in Frankenstein?

Let he WHO IS WITHOUT SIN cast the first stone. C'mon -- where are you? oh, that's right - we're a nation of judgemental SINNERS.

ngeso,thank you for bringing up a VERY important point that will surely fly right over their heads, since they are all too busy watching Law & Order or "the game" or "the news" :rolleyes: on TV. ha ha, the irony alread..."will surely fly right over *their* heads"

[ngeso]

Originally posted by square root:
we're human and we will always be prisoners of our most primitive emotions. had this child a been a relative of yours, what would you want to happen? why should this man be allowed to have any sort of life???? justice and revenge can sleep in the same bed. no doubt: had it been my child, i'd want to personally cut his nutz off too. nonetheless, i am a third party, which means justice in the interest of humanity is paramount. and that does include some asshole rapist or murderer, whether i like it or not. it is called 'civilization'.

i have to add, that i live in a country without death penalty, and with a maximum sentencing of 15 years, bar serious issues regarding the re-integration of a sentenced criminal into society after serving of a sentence.

[jpsf]

Originally posted by square root:
we're human and we will always be prisoners of our most primitive emotions. had this child a been a relative of yours, what would you want to happen? why should this man be allowed to have any sort of life???? justice and revenge can sleep in the same bed. i agree completely, but healing starts with forgiving. not an easy thing to do.

[Pete Nice]

Originally posted by jpsf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by square root:
we're human and we will always be prisoners of our most primitive emotions. had this child a been a relative of yours, what would you want to happen? why should this man be allowed to have any sort of life???? justice and revenge can sleep in the same bed. i agree completely, but healing starts with forgiving. not an easy thing to do. </font>[/QUOTE]i agree with forgiving to move on and heal, but this person doesn't need to alive to be forgiven.

[Pete Nice]

justice in the interest of humanity is paramount

and what would justice be in this case?

[ngeso]

Originally posted by square root:
justice in the interest of humanity is paramount

and what would justice be in this case? him getting a fair, unbiased trial according to law. not a f*cking internet witchhunt.

[jpsf]

Originally posted by square root:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jpsf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by square root:
we're human and we will always be prisoners of our most primitive emotions. had this child a been a relative of yours, what would you want to happen? why should this man be allowed to have any sort of life???? justice and revenge can sleep in the same bed. i agree completely, but healing starts with forgiving. not an easy thing to do. </font>[/QUOTE]i agree with forgiving to move on and heal, but this person doesn't need to alive to be forgiven. </font>[/QUOTE]fair enough, although i think jesus would disagree. me...i'm not that nice. i'd like to see retribution.

[Friday]

Change will never happen until we all realize that we all are the problem....jmo

[ October 16, 2003, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: gf ]

[Pete Nice]

Originally posted by ngeso:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by square root:
justice in the interest of humanity is paramount

and what would justice be in this case? him getting a fair, unbiased trial according to law. not a f*cking internet witchhunt. </font>[/QUOTE]my judgement is based on his admitted guilt as well as a general feeling for people found guilty of crimes like this.

[ngeso]

Originally posted by square root:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ngeso:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by square root:
justice in the interest of humanity is paramount

and what would justice be in this case? him getting a fair, unbiased trial according to law. not a f*cking internet witchhunt. </font>[/QUOTE]my judgement is based on his admitted guilt as well as a general feeling for people found guilty of crimes like this. </font>[/QUOTE]him admitting to the crime is not the same as establishing that he did in fact commit the crime. he does not decide whether he did the crime - a court of law ha sto do that.

i'm not a lawyer, but members of the bar please back me up on this?

[JMNYC]

Originally posted by jpsf:
ha ha, the irony alread..."will surely fly right over *their* heads" Point taken.

[ October 16, 2003, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: JMNYC ]

[Hippie]

I don't believe death is a punishment for someone who has commited this crime I think it's relief. If this man commited this crime and then finds God how does he live with himself. And if he commited it and never feels guilty then were just saving his children from the monster. As far as judgement I do feel we have to wait for all the evidence. One thing MYOR forgot to mention in the original post is and I quote the original news story, " Dague ( his lawyer ) said that Lucie gave the written statement only after police told him he failed a lie detector test and threatened to take away his other four children if he didn't confess ". Peace, Children

[Pete Nice]

[/qb][/QUOTE]him admitting to the crime is not the same as establishing that he did in fact commit the crime. he does not decide whether he did the crime - a court of law ha sto do that.

i'm not a lawyer, but members of the bar please back me up on this? [/QB][/QUOTE]

if he is found not guilty... my feelings still stand. i'm jumping the gun by assuming his guilt and that's what i'm judging from. it's wrong, but i'm not arguing his guilt. just what think should happen to him or people like him.

[beaniboy67]

im Scottish bit i guess revenge is a big part of the war recently.

it was claimed last week here in Scotland that Tony Blair new Sadam never had any weapons 20 days before the war started with iraq.

This has been spoken about here on the news recently and all i can say is fuikin attrocity!!

I would hate to call myself British i am scottish thru and thru and take nothing to do with this nations insane ideas and beliefs!!

Go on home British soldiers!! the movies over!!

[ngeso]

Originally posted by Hippie:
One thing MYOR forgot to mention in the original post is and I quote the original news story, " Dague ( his lawyer ) said that Lucie gave the written statement only after police told him he failed a lie detector test and threatened to take away his other four children if he didn't confess ". Peace, Children [/QB]does this mean "under duress", law people?

[mhd]

Originally posted by ngeso:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by square root:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ngeso:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by square root:
justice in the interest of humanity is paramount

and what would justice be in this case? him getting a fair, unbiased trial according to law. not a f*cking internet witchhunt. </font>[/QUOTE]my judgement is based on his admitted guilt as well as a general feeling for people found guilty of crimes like this. </font>[/QUOTE]him admitting to the crime is not the same as establishing that he did in fact commit the crime. he does not decide whether he did the crime - a court of law ha sto do that.

i'm not a lawyer, but members of the bar please back me up on this? </font>[/QUOTE]sir, you are correct.

[ngeso]

thanx, mhd.

[mhd]

Originally posted by ngeso:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hippie:
One thing MYOR forgot to mention in the original post is and I quote the original news story, " Dague ( his lawyer ) said that Lucie gave the written statement only after police told him he failed a lie detector test and threatened to take away his other four children if he didn't confess ". Peace, Children does this mean "under duress", law people? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]yes, but it depends on how the state law defines it and whether past cases have allowed this type of coercion. you would be surprised at how much leeway they get to "trick" a suspect, at the same time there are basic safeguards afforded to a suspect, one is, once you ask to end the interrogation and/or request your attorney they must stop, but, usually you are at their mercy and records get lost, changed, deleted, misrepresented, etc.

[ngeso]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ngeso:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hippie:
One thing MYOR forgot to mention in the original post is and I quote the original news story, " Dague ( his lawyer ) said that Lucie gave the written statement only after police told him he failed a lie detector test and threatened to take away his other four children if he didn't confess ". Peace, Children does this mean "under duress", law people? </font>[/QUOTE]yes, but it depends on how the state law defines it and whether past cases have allowed this type of coercion. you would be surprised at how much leeway they get to "trick" a suspect, at the same time there are basic safeguards afforded to a suspect, one is, once you ask to end the interrogation and/or request your attorney they must stop, but, usually you are at their mercy and records get lost, changed, deleted, misrepresented, etc. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]thanx for the teaching, mhd.
the american judiciary system - law, period! - is both enigma and a source of scare to me. from what i have gathered, many European law systems do not permit duress of any kind, i.e. a situation of 'free will' has to be recognized any time that anyone owns up to an alleged crime. we get the craziest, most heinous cases thrown out of court because of contestable procedures on the accusatory side.

[ October 16, 2003, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: ngeso ]

[i.be.me]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
Everybody here is trained quite well - through school, church, sunday school, parents, TV - to be quick to judge.

For all those calling for ANYBODY to EVER be killed, tortured, castrated as punishment ... if that was your brother or mother or father who was SICK and obviously out of his or her right mind, would you STILL resemble one of the enraged villagers in Frankenstein?

Let he WHO IS WITHOUT SIN cast the first stone. C'mon -- where are you? oh, that's right - we're a nation of judgemental SINNERS.

ngeso,thank you for bringing up a VERY important point that will surely fly right over their heads, since they are all too busy watching Law & Order or "the game" or "the news" :rolleyes: on TV. i agree the over all culture in the US sets us up to be judgmental, intolerant, and violent seeking revenge instead of a rational humane solution.

BUT get a grip ya'll. DHP is like a living room or bar where people get together and speak their minds mostly off the cuff with lots of feelings.

the crime described is another violent crime, added to a very long list, against a female - a very young one at that. it is not surprising to see people (mostly women) react angrily with feelings of violence.

expressing feelings and making decisions/acting on feelings are different things.

i'm pretty sure (if I gambled, I'd bet on it) that many of the people who called for the man to be killed, tortured, or castrated are venting anger (fear), disgust, and frustration about the situation and once the emotions blew over would not actually agree to have any of those things happen in reality.

i find it pretty appalling that the focus has changed in both threads to how wrong & unreasonable the responses have been. and funny, its mostly by men...

if we're going to evaluate who has the right to judge and sin - maybe ya'll should check your motivations

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/rant.gif

okay. i'm done.

[mhd]

and now with the gender stereotypes

[i.be.me]

Originally posted by mhd:
and now with the gender stereotypes i guess you would argue that there is no such thing as sexism and racism, eh?

what ever floats your boat. i'm just calling it like i see it.

have a nice nite.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Saglady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
and now with the gender stereotypes i guess you would argue that there is no such thing as sexism and racism, eh?

</font>[/QUOTE]you don't even know how funny that is