Somebody tell me why...

[(Im)poster]

some men feel like they have to put their hands on you when you dance with them? Why do some men feel like if you happen to do a half turn so you can see the DJ for a moment that it is an invitation to dance up on your ass? Men: If you are trying to dance on a woman and she keeps moving away, take the hint. I actually had to push a man off me a few weeks ago after spinning around and moving to get away from him. I'm tired of this. Such behavior is NOT a compliment.

I just read Richierich's thread on feeling bad about being turned down for a dance and I want to say that this is part of the reason why some women don't dance with men they don't know. I'm not putting Richierich in this class, and I suspect few DHP men are guilty of this, however, it is a real problem at the clubs. Maybe I'm from the moon or something?

I enjoy the community presence of all people who understand the music and the party. A compliment is nice, your smile is most welcome, but please don't touch me if I don't know you. I don't mean touching my arm or shoulder to ask me a question in my ear, I mean trying to hold hands or grabbing me around my waist. That's not OK AT ALL. Several brothers have even walked off like I'm wrong for smiling while telling them not to touch me. I rarely ever want to dance like that with a stranger. And even if I did, I would not want some fool running back and telling my man that I was out at the club dancing "nasty" with someone else.
graemlins/soapbox.gif

[MyNia]

Speak it! I get tired of taking a man's hands off me on the dancefloor. I don't dance with men I don't get a good vibe from for that reason. I will try to use body language to let the guy know that I don't want to be touched but if that doesn't work I politely end the dance.

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by mynia:
Speak it! I get tired of taking a man's hands off me on the dancefloor. I don't dance with men I don't get a good vibe from for that reason. I will try to use body language to let the guy know that I don't want to be touched but if that doesn't work I politely end the dance. This is what I mean. I thought we left this behind at the "mainstream" clubs in favor of house clubs where you'd think most of us are really into the music and dancing, not trying to pick someone up. I dress modestly because I often go out alone and I don't want anyone thinking I'm looking for someone to take home.

What a shame that I feel like I have to think about what I wear and, as you said, be polite when a man isn't getting the message that his advances are not wanted. One of these days I am just going to go off.

Men, don't be offended, many women are at the club to release and enjoy. That's all. It's not that we don't like you personally. Trying to get my attention when I'm focused on the music and movement is not a good thing. I think it would be a great help if people just learned to read signals better. If I am dancing, smiling and you only see the whites of my eyes, it is not a good time to try to talk to me or dance with me (this has happened, too). I am not there, I am inside the music and I don't want anyone to bring me out.

[naeema_from_toronto]

i find that looking straight at the floor and avoiding eye contact with people works pretty well.

[naeema_from_toronto]

i also find that the "travelling dance" (when you dance and walk around the club) also helps - never stay in the same place too long or some dude is bound to take a shot at trying to dance close to you!

[JJ11]

Since no other men have commented,I'll be glad to.What many western women dont seem to understand,are the laws of nature.
Since Adam and Eve,Nudity has been known to us.
When Men see some of Womens skin,we are aroused.When Women dance in from of Men,we want to touch them.I think Muslims,really have the right idea,about covering up.In this respect,they are atleast working with the laws of nature.
To answer your question,about why men come up to you,when your wiggling around in the club,its because thats our instinct.If you dont want to be approached or touched,dont ask for it with your body language,and style of dressing.
Cover up,and dont dance sexy in front of men,and I'm sure you're problem will,for the most part,be resolved.If you're looking to be approached,followed,touched,then keep on Dancing,with some skin showing.If you're looking for a husband,I'd be glad to advise on some good steps to take.

[Fletch]

While I understand the problems with some of us men and their phyisicality, parties where everyone is dancing by themselves or not dancing at all, especially some house functions (sorry, but I got to go there) is a real pisser.

I think that there are few responses because this subject has been covered before. I'm gonna be honest with you. I could understand if a woman rejects a man's request to dance. The problem is that some women have a nasty vibe even if you are respectful in your approach. I will be straight up. If we as partygoers are gonna be that defensive about the prospect of "unrulies", then we are gonna have to question the choice to party.

What is a party if everyone is dancing alone or hanging on the wall? Or "travelling"??? I thought parties were places where people could vibe and meet. In the last couple of years, I'm seeing otherwise.

And yes, I'll take a hint if a woman's moving away. Peace.

[ April 06, 2003, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: einnod23 ]

[SHEIK YERBOUTI]

I don't want the sisters to think I'm missing the point here. I get uncomfortable when I see some dude trying to grope some woman and it's obvious she 'ain't with it.' However, I must concur w/einnod23. I find it pretty damn funny that people go out to packed-ass dance clubs to be ALONE! If you're around people, you're gonna be approched by someone. Point blank, no getting around it.

I completely understand a woman not wanting someone 'all up in they biznazz', I'm not the type to do that. If I GET the chance to dance, I keep a foot or more between us unless she closes the gap. No hands, etc. There's usually not too much opportunity for that in house anyway. While I love the music, sometimes the parties feel chaste. What is this, a waltz?

"Bow to your partner, etc..."

The thing is, does ANYONE actually dance together in the house scene anymore? I don't even bother to try and dance WITH someone nowadays. what's the point, then? Why go out at all?

[naeema_from_toronto]

Originally posted by JJ11:
Since no other men have commented,I'll be glad to.What many western women dont seem to understand,are the laws of nature.
Since Adam and Eve,Nudity has been known to us.
When Men see some of Womens skin,we are aroused.When Women dance in from of Men,we want to touch them.I think Muslims,really have the right idea,about covering up.In this respect,they are atleast working with the laws of nature.
To answer your question,about why men come up to you,when your wiggling around in the club,its because thats our instinct.If you dont want to be approached or touched,dont ask for it with your body language,and style of dressing.
Cover up,and dont dance sexy in front of men,and I'm sure you're problem will,for the most part,be resolved.If you're looking to be approached,followed,touched,then keep on Dancing,with some skin showing.If you're looking for a husband,I'd be glad to advise on some good steps to take. just because its "natural" for a man to want to dance and touch a woman who is wearing nice clothes and showing a bit of skin and dancing in front of them doesnt make it right.

thats why we have brains - brains are there to help us in situations when the "natural" response isnt the "right" response.

if men used their brains more in such situations i dont think women would be complaining.

[naeema_from_toronto]

Originally posted by einnod23:


What is a party if everyone is dancing alone or hanging on the wall? Or "travelling"??? I thought parties were places where people could vibe and meet. In the last couple of years, I'm seeing otherwise.
strange... i go to parties to listen to music.

maybe i'm just antisocial...

[And]

Originally posted by naeema_from_toronto:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by einnod23:


What is a party if everyone is dancing alone or hanging on the wall? Or "travelling"??? I thought parties were places where people could vibe and meet. In the last couple of years, I'm seeing otherwise.
strange... i go to parties to listen to music.

maybe i'm just antisocial... </font>[/QUOTE]Ya know ... I go to parties to listen to the music too. I guess we could sit here all day making our points about being touched, wanting to dance with or without someone. Each situation will have to be dealt with on a one on one basis. Approach me properly and all other elements are in place, sure we dance. Otherwise, please step off - and if your approach is extra whack, you get an extra whack dismissal. Bottom line, show respect!

[JJ11]

Hi Naeema from Toronto.To respond to :

--------"just because its "natural" for a man to want to dance and touch a woman who is wearing nice clothes and showing a bit of skin and dancing in front of them doesnt make it right.

thats why we have brains - brains are there to help us in situations when the "natural" response isnt the "right" response.

if men used their brains more in such situations i dont think women would be complaining."-------

Well,you tell me.Lions have brains too,but when they see a nice female,with her tail up in the air,prancing around in the jungle,you know what they gonna do.I dont know why,but seems like much city folk,tend to surpress their emotions,or think that we humans are supposed to try to control our instincts.There is nothing more natural,than when a Man see's a Woman,and is attracted to her,He approaches her.From Birds on up..If a Woman wants a Man,for sex,its obvious what she need to do,wiggle around a little,and show some skin.What makes me wonder,is how and why Women think they can dress up real sexy in public,and think Men will look at them,or want them,for anything more than sex.If a Women wants a serious Man,and/or a Man to treat her seriously,then she has got to behave like a respectable Woman.Any Man will tell you,they would never Marry a Stripper,though they would like to get with one for a night.Therefore,ladies,think about what you want from a Man,and how you would like men to treat you.Its really all up to you,and the way you dress and behave.I'll give you an example.I took a walk in the mall this evening.I saw an uncountable amount of Females that made me think,Damn,that looks like some good sex.Short skirts,High Heels,alot of skin,ready...
Though,I probably only saw one,that made me think,now that looks like some wife material.Think about it ladies.Your getting what you're asking for.

[naeema_from_toronto]

Originally posted by JJ11:
Hi Naeema from Toronto.To respond to :

--------"just because its "natural" for a man to want to dance and touch a woman who is wearing nice clothes and showing a bit of skin and dancing in front of them doesnt make it right.

thats why we have brains - brains are there to help us in situations when the "natural" response isnt the "right" response.

if men used their brains more in such situations i dont think women would be complaining."-------

Well,you tell me.Lions have brains too,but when they see a nice female,with her tail up in the air,prancing around in the jungle,you know what they gonna do.I dont know why,but seems like much city folk,tend to surpress their emotions,or think that we humans are supposed to try to control our instincts.There is nothing more natural,than when a Man see's a Woman,and is attracted to her,He approaches her.From Birds on up..If a Woman wants a Man,for sex,its obvious what she need to do,wiggle around a little,and show some skin.What makes me wonder,is how and why Women think they can dress up real sexy in public,and think Men will look at them,or want them,for anything more than sex.If a Women wants a serious Man,and/or a Man to treat her seriously,then she has got to behave like a respectable Woman.Any Man will tell you,they would never Marry a Stripper,though they would like to get with one for a night.Therefore,ladies,think about what you want from a Man,and how you would like men to treat you.Its really all up to you,and the way you dress and behave.I'll give you an example.I took a walk in the mall this evening.I saw an uncountable amount of Females that made me think,Damn,that looks like some good sex.Short skirts,High Heels,alot of skin,ready...
Though,I probably only saw one,that made me think,now that looks like some wife material.Think about it ladies.Your getting what you're asking for. no offense, but did you even read my post?

lions are animals and we are people, and we have the ability to use our brains to a higher capacity than other animals. we live in a civilized society where it is not proper to walk up to a woman that you find attractive and rape her because it feels "natural" and "instinctual" to you.

instincts are something that animals use to survive. we are smarter than animals and dont need to rely on our instincts for survival, and the society that we live in reflects this.

in summation: when confronted with a scantily clad woman in a club dancing away, and your instincts scream "touch her!", use the brain that god gave you and DONT! unless she invites you to! its pretty simple to understand.

the end.

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by JJ11:
To answer your question,about why men come up to you,when your wiggling around in the club,its because thats our instinct.If you dont want to be approached or touched,dont ask for it with your body language,and style of dressing. How do you know how I dance or dress? That conclusion requires a lot of assumption on your part. Obviously, you did not fully read my post. I stated that I dress modestly -- that means most of me is covered up. Now if my face or my forearms and elbows turn some man on, that's really his problem. I'm so sick of the argument that women are somehow responsible for a man's actions, as if men just can't control themselves. That sort of thinking as it applies to rape already has been mentioned, so I won't go into it further.

I don't need or desire any of that sexual/physical stuff from anyone other than the one I get it from. As others have pointed out, there are women who go to the club looking for action. If you are dancing with a woman who wants that, she will let you know. Like we all have said, just be respectful and read the signals. Even when I was on the prowl, a man who smiled at me and then talked to me had a better chance than one who was getting physical anyway. And yes, this topic has come up before, but obviously it continues to be a problem.

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by toomuchtv:
The thing is, does ANYONE actually dance together in the house scene anymore? I don't even bother to try and dance WITH someone nowadays. what's the point, then? Why go out at all? Hey toomuchtv!

Like I said, maybe I am from the moon. While I may go out alone, I never feel like I am alone when I am in the club even if I don't know a soul there, which is often because I tend to go to clubs in different states. I honestly feel that I am dancing with everyone in the room because, if you really think about it, I am. I am able to feed off the positive energy of other people who are in the club. This, for me, is a social experience that makes going to a party different from dancing alone in my living room. You've seen it: People shout when the bass drops, when they hear a favorite record. People smile and sing along. I enjoy seeing people who dance well, people who wear interesting clothes, men dressed in drag. All of these things contribute to my enjoyment of the house scene. I love it when I know people feel the music like I do and I find that shared experience quite satisfying. But that's just me. We all go out for different reasons. Which brings me back to my point. I don't pay to get into the club to feel like I have to defend myself against unwanted touching. I enjoying meeting other heads, but to meet me, you don't have to put your hands on me. To dance with me, you don't have to put your hands on me.

[ April 06, 2003, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: (Im)poster ]

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by naeema_from_toronto:
i also find that the "travelling dance" (when you dance and walk around the club) also helps - never stay in the same place too long or some dude is bound to take a shot at trying to dance close to you! Naeema!

This was too funny and good advice, too. :D

[naeema_from_toronto]

hahaha! well its my pleasure to share it with you!

oh i forgot to mention, the "travelling dance" is also an excellent way to scope out the scenery!

[Keith Blackstone]

Interesting points stated in this thread but it comes down to self control. No matter how fly or sexy a female is... there is a thing called "self control" You don't have to touch, you don't have to even talk to... that's a choice you (we men) make on our owns... so don't blame it on "nature"... Learn some self control.

I have no problem with enjoying the scenery without having to interact with conversation or physical touching. If a female is interested in my attention, she'll make it known. If I'm interested in her and haven't gotten any signals, maybe I'll come talk to her. But at no time do I place my hands upon her person.

Using the excuse of "oh you're dressed xyz so you want to be touched" is a wack ass excuse too many males use and frankly it's pathetic.

2 words: SELF CONTROL.

[MsAlayneous]

[ April 28, 2003, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: deepred ]

[MsAlayneous]

[ April 28, 2003, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: deepred ]

[Keith Blackstone]

Originally posted by deepred:
question: who 'decides' whats sexy or not?
just wondering.. Personal interpretation, or some people go by what they see on tv as being sexy.

Either way... we (men) control our own actions... and should take responsibility for such. ... Not pass the buck onto women, no matter how much or little they are wearing.

... please. :rolleyes: (in general, not toward you deepred)

[ April 06, 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Keith Blackstone ]

[Shalewa]

I am a woman who dresses sexily and freely expresses herself through dance. The way I dress and move are designed to please myself, what others take from it is on them. I cannot control eyeballs and I don't try to, but I have no tolerance for handsy men. The notion that women who dress to sweat and move from the depths of themselves in underground dance spaces are on the whole looking for sexual partners is surely laughable to anybody who has tried picking up a woman at the Shelter or countless other venues as it simply is not true.

As I explained in another thread, if I want to be dancing I usually already am. If I am not then I don't want to be. I usually smile and say, "no thank you, I'm taking a break" or something to that effect and brothers who seem normal enough will usually be obliged with a dance if they ask again. If I am already dancing and someone dances in my direction and his vibe is not intrusive I will dance with him.

That women should be made responsible for the impulse control of men has always struck me as odd. Patriarchy is no cakewalk for men or women. By unfairly and paradoxically denying women control of their bodies, dress and personal expression in the name of protecting men from their "base natures", sexist double standards hurt all of our ability to freely and honestly express our humanity (and sometimes make dance parties a drag too).

[MsAlayneous]

[ April 28, 2003, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: deepred ]

[SHEIK YERBOUTI]

Originally posted by (Im)poster:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by toomuchtv:
The thing is, does ANYONE actually dance together in the house scene anymore? I don't even bother to try and dance WITH someone nowadays. what's the point, then? Why go out at all? Hey toomuchtv!

Like I said, maybe I am from the moon. While I may go out alone, I never feel like I am alone when I am in the club even if I don't know a soul there, which is often because I tend to go to clubs in different states. I honestly feel that I am dancing with everyone in the room because, if you really think about it, I am. I am able to feed off the positive energy of other people who are in the club. This, for me, is a social experience that makes going to a party different from dancing alone in my living room. You've seen it: People shout when the bass drops, when they hear a favorite record. People smile and sing along. I enjoy seeing people who dance well, people who wear interesting clothes, men dressed in drag. All of these things contribute to my enjoyment of the house scene. I love it when I know people feel the music like I do and I find that shared experience quite satisfying. But that's just me. We all go out for different reasons. Which brings me back to my point. I don't pay to get into the club to feel like I have to defend myself against unwanted touching. I enjoying meeting other heads, but to meet me, you don't have to put your hands on me. To dance with me, you don't have to put your hands on me. </font>[/QUOTE]Upon further thought, I see where you're coming from. I can understand wanting to tap into a communal spirit. I guess 'fellowship' might be as good a term as any. If the vibe is right, everyone has their own relationship to the music and all the people around them at the same time. I think I may have missed that point from your opening post.

I guess sometimes I like dancing WITH someone; being in direct one-on-one physical communication with that person, not just in their vicinity. Maybe I just haven't been lucky enough to be at the sort of spots where a 'family' vibe is common. I must admit, I once went to a loft party in Toronto with some friends, I staked out my own little spot on the floor, danced myself soaking wet, left with my friends at the end and to this day I still mention how great a time I had.

Like I said in my last post, my mama raised me right and I keep my hands to myself unless told to do otherwise. I totally understand a woman not wanting to have to beat some joker off with a stick, or having to worry about it whenever she goes out. That's not cool. I never could understand why some cats would just 'grab someone up' and think that would work. Like another brother said, "No self control." And like another sister said, "Some man's lack of self-control shouldn't be a woman's issue."

Sorry for the ramblin'.

[ April 07, 2003, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: toomuchtv ]

[AD]

They do it because:

A) They're drunk
B) They're horny and they can't get p*ssy
C) They're stupid or retarded
D) They're disrespectful
E) All of the above

[JJ11]

All these mind games,and psychological garbage,is why there is such confusion,in much of the western world.If Women think they can dress and act the way they want,and not get approached by Men,they are wrong.Yes,Women are responsible for Mens actions toward them.Dont try and complicate issues,and say that Men must have self control.Untill you Women have the Male Membrane,and Male hormones,you'll never understand,what seeing a Womans Body does to Man.
As I said above,if Women are covered properly, and behave respectfully,and a Man still bothers them,then the Man is wrong.But if a Woman is flaunting it,I'll straightout ask her for some.
If she thinks thats wrong,then she needs some Dress and Behaviour lessons.And all you ladies reading this,know you love it,when a Man is bold enough to approach you like a real Man,and say it like it is.Its excactly why you're showing it off in the first place.
Any Women saying,I just dress like this,because blah blah blah,is just lying to herself.Bottom line,is you like getting the attention.Problem is,if you want a serious Man,or to be considered Serious,and treated with respect,dressing sexy,and showing the world what you got,is not the way to do it.Sure you'll get a second of attention,by showing some skin,and shaking that booty,but when the nights done,see how serious you'll be taken.The whole spiritual side of this subject is another (IE: Marriage,being Faithful,etc).If we all had the Muslim dresscode,I'm sure their would be less touching problems.

[JJ11]

deepred
Junior Member
Member # 3130

posted April 06, 2003 10:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you dont want to be approached or touched,dont ask for it with your body language,and style of dressing.
Cover up,and dont dance sexy in front of men
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

your joking right?

so now females are responsible for males behavior?

--------------------------------------------------

No,are you joking,by claiming you dont understand this ? Its the basic foundation for Men and Women.Like bees are attracted to Flowers,and polinate them,Men are attracted to Women.
The creator,gave Women,the needed extras to attract Men.Though Women,its important to use this in the right place at the right time,and not abuse it,or you'll get unnesacerily abused,by Hormoned controlled men.
This should clarify.
If you (a Woman),was to go to an obscure native Villiage,how would you dress and behave ?
Why ?Well,now you can answer you're own questions.
This is a Mans real point of view,even those Men who try to be polite,and act nice,feel this way,inside.(mostly Urban) society trains them to Surpress this though.
By Men being Men,and Women being Women,relationships,and the coexistance between the two,is/are much happier.

[Martin Red]

Women shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable.

but it is a nightclub so giving out can be confused, men: some more than others confuse it on purpose so they can can play the numbers game, target bombing covering an area and you will have victims, approach 50 women and 1 may be drunk and stupid enough.

The dancing part, don't be a: -
http://www.paintmash.co.uk/mine/019a.gif

Give people their space, unless it's a bashment booty bash perhaps.

I know that the rules changes depending on location in the world, but respect should be global.

[Shalewa]

I have to say (again...) that how women dress has in my experience and observation not a whole lot to do with how men act when they decide to be harassing. As a person who for many years tended to be seen in public dressed in long, loose skirts and dresses with her head covered and who is pretty much never seen in notably revealing clothing outside of a club context I have learned that men who harass don't much care what you have on. Pushing a baby stroller, dressed in a manner that would be well within "muslim dresscode", minding my own business I've been aggressively harrassed. In baggy sweats doing laundry, I've been harassed. Oddly enough, I almost never wear shorts in public but I have observed that I almost never get harassed when I do. If I could figure out what the magic formula was that turned off unwanted attention I would gladly observe it. Please don't say veiling, because more than once I have heard men harassing women behind veils with lines like, "you can't hide a body like that," or "I know the rest of you is as pretty as those eyes." These women are covered in the extreme andstill harassed. People are responsible for their own behavior. Men are people too.

[ April 07, 2003, 05:47 AM: Message edited by: Shalewa ]

[JJ11]

Regarding : "

posted April 07, 2003 05:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to say (again...) that how women dress has in my experience and observation not a whole lot to do with how men act when they decide to be harassing. As a person who for many years tended to be seen in public dressed in long, loose skirts and dresses with her head covered and who is pretty much never seen in notably revealing clothing outside of a club context I have learned that men who harass don't much care what you have on. Pushing a baby stroller, dressed in a manner that would be well within "muslim dresscode", minding my own business I've been aggressively harrassed. In baggy sweats doing laundry, I've been harassed. Oddly enough, I almost never wear shorts in public but I have observed that I almost never get harassed when I do. If I could figure out what the magic formula was that turned off unwanted attention I would gladly observe it. Please don't say veiling, because more than once I have heard men harassing women behind veils with lines like, "you can't hide a body like that," or "I know the rest of you is as pretty as those eyes." These women are covered in the extreme andstill harassed. People are responsible for their own behavior. Men are people too".
-------------------------------------------------


For me,the way a Women dresses,is her speaking with out words.Therefore,I think that any Men who bother covered Women are complete Jerks.If you (Women),are covered properly,and a man disturbs you,just simply ask him if he is blind or retarded.
Dress (or undress),is really what determines,how I treat a Woman.

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by toomuchtv:
I guess sometimes I like dancing WITH someone; being in direct one-on-one physical communication with that person, not just in their vicinity. I like to dance with a person at times, too. A good dancer is inspiring and fun. A person who is happy makes me feel happy. It's just unfortunate that some of my dance partners chose to interprete my little two step with a spin as a dance of desire. How, I don't know. In the most recent case I was just standing by a wall and not moving at all. Only my hands, face and hair were showing. I guess JJ11 will figure it was my hair.

That is why I used to love gay mens clubs so much. I always felt safe there and free to dress and dance as I wished -- except once when a guy mistook me for a drag queen! graemlins/rofl.gif

[ April 07, 2003, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: (Im)poster ]

[Koffy Brown]

Most of the time, it's my lead in the dance, if it's a sexy song and I get a lil sexy with it..he understands that..but if I keep an arms length distance, he SHOULD understand that as well...I definitely don't dance with men that appear to be drunk or obnoxious...I to believe it's about self control...and if he doesn't get the hint...AFTER I TELL HIM...no thanks to his advances...I simply move on...

[Jamie 3:26]

That's why I prefer to dance naked.It lets them know what's on my mind....

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
That's why I prefer to dance naked.It lets them know what's on my mind.... and that's probably why they have someone waiting for you at the exit with a straight jacket and some medication... biggrinangel.gif

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
That's why I prefer to dance naked.It lets them know what's on my mind.... graemlins/rofl.gif

[Bill Blake]

Originally posted by JJ11:
Since no other men have commented,I'll be glad to.What many western women dont seem to understand,are the laws of nature.
Since Adam and Eve,Nudity has been known to us.
When Men see some of Womens skin,we are aroused.When Women dance in from of Men,we want to touch them.I think Muslims,really have the right idea,about covering up.In this respect,they are atleast working with the laws of nature.
To answer your question,about why men come up to you,when your wiggling around in the club,its because thats our instinct.If you dont want to be approached or touched,dont ask for it with your body language,and style of dressing.
Cover up,and dont dance sexy in front of men,and I'm sure you're problem will,for the most part,be resolved.If you're looking to be approached,followed,touched,then keep on Dancing,with some skin showing.If you're looking for a husband,I'd be glad to advise on some good steps to take. ‘Laws of nature’ is a pretty ****ing WESTERN term. It implies the rigorous study of the universe through observation and THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD that allows us to differentiate between the concretes of the universe and that, which is not concrete.

“That’s why we have brains - brains are there to help us in situations when the "natural" response isn’t the "right" response.”

So let me guess the brain isn’t ‘natural”? The ability to man to use his brain in a reasonable manner that allows him to understand how to respect the persons of others is not a natural way to behave? Can you PROVE that brains don’t come up with NATURAL responses to situations and that otherwise is a ‘law”

No actually you cant because the shit you are talking is complete rubbish.

Typical religious bullshit (with all of religions inherent evils in your comments) completely based on A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING THE LAWS OF NATURE. The brain is natural and to use it is too.

AND WORST OF ALL

The fact that you blame it one the women. That because of the way that the woman dresses or acts is the reason why men don’t know how to behave is the most chauvinistic, sexist, insult to women.

“Well your honor, how can you blame the rapist, just look at how she was dressed?”

Just because I leave my front door unlocked doesn’t mean your ass has the authority to come in my house and whether you do is on you, not on me.

And yes the real stupidity comes out as poster pointed out…….how the **** do you know how she dresses? How do you even no she is from ‘The West’?

You don’t and you didn’t and you’re flawed reasoning and the base philosophy for your ‘explanation’ is despicable and disgusting to women, the brain and the laws of nature.

[Monny JcIntosh]

Last night a drunken girl collapsed beside me and started to try and kiss my new shoes. I only brought it on myself. I should have realised when I put them on that I was sending out a clear signal: with these fancy leather deck shoes I'm just gagging to have my feet kissed. Bidding, btw, currently stands at 50 UKP. (UK size 9).

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by JJ11:
If you're looking for a husband,I'd be glad to advise on some good steps to take. Do tell. I'm off work today, JJ and I would just love to get your tips. If I wanted to snag the one I'm with, would your tips help in that case as well? Also, at the mall, the one who looked like a wife, was she wearing a burka?

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by Jonny McIntosh:
Last night a drunken girl collapsed beside me and started to try and kiss my new shoes. I only brought it on myself. I should have realised when I put them on that I was sending out a clear signal: with these fancy leather deck shoes I'm just gagging to have my feet kissed. Bidding, btw, currently stands at 50 UKP. (UK size 9). How does UK size 9 compare to US size 9?
No bidding here, you wear the sexy shoes, you suffer the consequences. Don't let me catch you out dancing in them...

[Jamie 3:26]

By one number...US size 9 = UK size 8.

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by Shalewa:
I have to say (again...) that how women dress has in my experience and observation not a whole lot to do with how men act when they decide to be harassing. As a person who for many years tended to be seen in public dressed in long, loose skirts and dresses with her head covered and who is pretty much never seen in notably revealing clothing outside of a club context I have learned that men who harass don't much care what you have on. Pushing a baby stroller, dressed in a manner that would be well within "muslim dresscode", minding my own business I've been aggressively harrassed. In baggy sweats doing laundry, I've been harassed. Oddly enough, I almost never wear shorts in public but I have observed that I almost never get harassed when I do. If I could figure out what the magic formula was that turned off unwanted attention I would gladly observe it. Please don't say veiling, because more than once I have heard men harassing women behind veils with lines like, "you can't hide a body like that," or "I know the rest of you is as pretty as those eyes." These women are covered in the extreme andstill harassed. People are responsible for their own behavior. Men are people too. Shalewa, I think I might now who you are.

[richierich]

I can remember back in the day '83 when I was going to the Power Plant and I was dancing with this sister and a dude I didn't even know was like man y'all got to get with it and proceeded to move me and this girl closer together like we were hugging(my first time jackin')it felt strange because I didn't know this sister and felt like that should be for someone who is inviting this. Needless to say that she was cool with it and I was like "Wow" this is normal! I've always felt like giving a woman her space, whether it be on the dance floor or just in general and she will let you know if she wants more (dance wise) or any other way. Besides I need room to really get down anyways. Up close nasty dancing is a form of "Jackin" and all records are not "Jack" records anyways. I'll never touch a woman that I don't know and then only if she gives me an indication that she wants me to touch her.
Peace

[ April 07, 2003, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: richierich ]

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
By one number...US size 9 = UK size 8. Ok. That's a US size 10, which means he'll need to add some fancy footwork. ;)

[DISKOQUEEN99]

SOME OF THEM THINK THEY ARE AT ONE OF THOSE OLD BASEMENT PARTIES. MY BODY MOVES BY ITSELF WITHOUT ANY HELP.

[Monny JcIntosh]

Originally posted by (Im)poster:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
By one number...US size 9 = UK size 8. Ok. That's a US size 10, which means he'll need to add some fancy footwork. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]Ha ha. Or take off some clothes and wait for "nature" to do its work.

Damn I'm the reedit king today.

[ April 07, 2003, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Jonny McIntosh ]

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by richierich:
Besides I need room to really get down anyway. This time you do mean dancing? ;)

I hope to get to Chicago again this summer to see jacking first hand (don't mean to sound like an anthropologist). I know what you say is true. I've seen people dance together that I would swear are a couple based on all the bump and grind. I'm always surprised when one goes home and the other is still there. I admit I am more conservative/old-fashioned in that respect. Like you, I also need my space to dance. It's more a safety concern for me anyway. I don't know if someone is just dancing or getting heated up in the process (well, I guess I do know). I used to think I was safe from that sort of thing in New York clubs, but it seems there's always at least one who just doesn't get it.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

I have danced with the worse and the best of men. There are alot of men that dance with you and will touch, but not grope. I cannot imagine dancing with a guy without touching a shoulder, an arm or something, might as well dance by yourself.

Now for those groping, drunk, horny idiots; I usually step on his feet with the heel of my shoe (I wear 3-4 inch heels)several times until he goes off limping away. tee-hee graemlins/grinyes.gif

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I have danced with the worse and the best of men. There are alot of men that dance with you and will touch, but not grope. I cannot imagine dancing with a guy without touching a shoulder, an arm or something, might as well dance by yourself.

Now for those groping, drunk, horny idiots; I usually step on his feet with the heel of my shoe (I wear 3-4 inch heels)several times until he goes off limping away. tee-hee graemlins/grinyes.gif Or a couple of elbows to the midsection...but I agree with you...a dance is only a dance...

[U]

Originally posted by JJ11:
Since no other men have commented,I'll be glad to.What many western women dont seem to understand,are the laws of nature.
Since Adam and Eve,Nudity has been known to us.
When Men see some of Womens skin,we are aroused.When Women dance in from of Men,we want to touch them.I think Muslims,really have the right idea,about covering up.In this respect,they are atleast working with the laws of nature.
To answer your question,about why men come up to you,when your wiggling around in the club,its because thats our instinct.If you dont want to be approached or touched,dont ask for it with your body language,and style of dressing.
Cover up,and dont dance sexy in front of men,and I'm sure you're problem will,for the most part,be resolved.If you're looking to be approached,followed,touched,then keep on Dancing,with some skin showing.If you're looking for a husband,I'd be glad to advise on some good steps to take. Now, I haven't read the entire thread yet, but this is some really narrow minded thinking on your part. You are telling women that we should basically be at the club to just sit back and watch because some man may not be able to control "nature". That is ridiculous...you need to step into the present, we live in a society. Which means basically, we turned our backs on most of our natural instincts to live mostly peacefully with one another. So, if men haven't developed enough to control those impulses, maybe they are the ones who should cover up...cover your eyes so life doesn't tempt you.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I have danced with the worse and the best of men. There are alot of men that dance with you and will touch, but not grope. I cannot imagine dancing with a guy without touching a shoulder, an arm or something, might as well dance by yourself.

Now for those groping, drunk, horny idiots; I usually step on his feet with the heel of my shoe (I wear 3-4 inch heels)several times until he goes off limping away. tee-hee graemlins/grinyes.gif Or a couple of elbows to the midsection...but I agree with you...a dance is only a dance but there has to be respect, you just ain't gon' sex me up on the dance floor especially if it's not invited...know your limits, let me do the leading... </font>[/QUOTE]

[Koffy Brown]

.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by JJ11:
Regarding : "

posted April 07, 2003 05:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For me,the way a Women dresses,is her speaking with out words.Therefore,I think that any Men who bother covered Women are complete Jerks.If you (Women),are covered properly,and a man disturbs you,just simply ask him if he is blind or retarded.
Dress (or undress),is really what determines,how I treat a Woman. So you are saying that if a woman have on something showing skin should be disrespected? I understand if she is standing on a corner cruising or working as a call girl because that is her job. But a woman that is feeling good about herself and wearing what makes her feel like a woman deserve disrespect?

Think what you want, but we were taught as children that we can look but don't touch

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JJ11:
Regarding : "

posted April 07, 2003 05:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For me,the way a Women dresses,is her speaking with out words.Therefore,I think that any Men who bother covered Women are complete Jerks.If you (Women),are covered properly,and a man disturbs you,just simply ask him if he is blind or retarded.
Dress (or undress),is really what determines,how I treat a Woman. So you are saying that if a woman have on something showing skin should be disrespected? I understand if she is standing on a corner cruising or working as a call girl because that is her job. But a woman that is feeling good about herself and wearing what makes her feel like a woman deserve disrespect?

Think what you want, but we were taught as children that we can look but don't touch </font>[/QUOTE]I kind of understand what JJ11 is saying...

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by U:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JJ11:
Since no other men have commented,I'll be glad to.What many western women dont seem to understand,are the laws of nature.
Since Adam and Eve,Nudity has been known to us.
When Men see some of Womens skin,we are aroused.When Women dance in from of Men,we want to touch them.I think Muslims,really have the right idea,about covering up.In this respect,they are atleast working with the laws of nature.
To answer your question,about why men come up to you,when your wiggling around in the club,its because thats our instinct.If you dont want to be approached or touched,dont ask for it with your body language,and style of dressing.
Cover up,and dont dance sexy in front of men,and I'm sure you're problem will,for the most part,be resolved.If you're looking to be approached,followed,touched,then keep on Dancing,with some skin showing.If you're looking for a husband,I'd be glad to advise on some good steps to take. Now, I haven't read the entire thread yet, but this is some really narrow minded thinking on your part. You are telling women that we should basically be at the club to just sit back and watch because some man may not be able to control "nature". That is ridiculous...you need to step into the present, we live in a society. Which means basically, we turned our backs on most of our natural instincts to live mostly peacefully with one another. So, if men haven't developed enough to control those impulses, maybe they are the ones who should cover up...cover your eyes so life doesn't tempt you. </font>[/QUOTE]Well said, U. I still want to read his man-snaggin tips though. :D

[U]

I'm sure it goes something like this...walk two steps behind and keep your eyes averted when speaking, so as not to tempt one too much with those batting lashes. Make sure that you can cook, clean and have healthy babies or else there is no hope for you...dirty sinner girls who show a flash of belly! ;)

[ April 07, 2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: U ]

[U]

oops

[ April 07, 2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: U ]

[Bill Blake]

Originally posted by U:
oops Grabbing women at a club is not even a ****ing 'natural instinct' in the first place

[U]

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by U:
oops Grabbing women at a club is not even a ****ing 'natural instinct' in the first place </font>[/QUOTE]according to some people it is...

[JJ11]

Yes,Hi,I'm back.Glad to see all you Ladies,are loving my honesty.I know its difficult (especially in Cities),to find Men who say it how it is.Generally,I find many in cities,are so worried about what they say (including myself,when I was younger).Well,as you can see,I'm not worried about being accepted anymore.I'm become very simple,and have no problem saying it like it is.Hate me,or Love me,in the end,atleast I know I spoke my mind and feelings clearly,and without hesitation.Regarding finding a husband.Well,first thing is a man wants a women who respects herself (and demonstrates the respect she has for herself,by the way she dresses,and the way she behaves).After all,what Man would want a wife,who shows the world what she's got ?Save it for your husbands ladies.It makes it that much more special.Ofcourse,he needs to be saving it for you too.Ofcourse,I understand the point of a Women,needing to do certain things,in order to attract the Man in the first place (as the creator has created the Beautiful Flower to attract the Bee).I saw mention of shoes as well,on some of the responses.Good point.Shoes say so much about a person.I find,if I see a Women,walking around in those Stripper type heals,or freaky boots,first thing I think is Sex.I definately would'nt want my woman in Public with those type of shoes.Though yes,at home,between us,in the bedroom,we can get as wild as we'd like.Bottom line is Men want a woman who carries herself in a respectable way in Public,and who gets real Freaky in the Bedroom(in private).If a Women chooses to show it all off in Public,then she's gonna get approached,by those looking for what she is offering.(IE :if the icecream truck,comes down your block ringing its bell,and you run out the house,to get some Ice cream,and the man in the truck then tells you,no I'm not selling Ice cream,I'm selling onions,somethings not right.In other words,think about what your out there saying with yourself,movements,dress,behaviour).Not sure who mentioned modern society,and use of Brain,etc,in one of the above responses,but who are they kidding.This is Brain and Body use,in its purest form.When one starts trying to convince themselves, that what their brain is telling them is right,and what their body is telling them is wrong,they start brainwashing there ownselves.Ofcourse,as I mentioned above,on the Spiritual level,there are definately important factors to consider,as in Marriage,Being Faithful,etc.
In these cases,its a promise that one is making,but that does'nt mean the Body stops feeling,and the Juices stop flowing.It only means,that one,must consider their spritual promise to their partner,and walk away from those offers,when confronted with them,keeping the promise made to their partner/lover.I'll give my Wife Queen treatmant,for A nice meal on the tabel each day,clean clothes and home,and being a good Mother to my children.
I'm sure Ladies,Your feeling most of what I'm saying,even if some of you western ladies dont admit it to yourselves at first.

[formerly known as kenspank]

i think this is a multi-faceted problem. part of the problem for women, is that some women actually respond favorably to the caveman style of dancefloor ettiquette.

another problem, is that people have become less friendly with each other over time. we are scarred from dysfunctional sexual relationships and dysfunctional family relationships and dysfunctional work relationships.

when we go out to the dancefloor, many go to vent our frustrations, so that we may be open to that universal joy that sanford biggers was talking about. so many people have problems with other people, dancing by yourself seems better than dancing with someone else.

when i was single, all i did to dance with people was dance in their vacinity and eventually we might dance together. nowadays people want to wait by the woman's bathroom and grab women by the hand on their way out.

i think another part of the problem is the fact 60% of the boys who became men during the 80s and 90s grew up in single-parent homes. alot of those boys feel the need to be ultramasculine in order to compensate for not being raised by a male figure. alot of mothers feel negatively or indifferent towards their sons sexuality and any hostility toward the mother eventually gets projected on any future female love interests.

the flipside of this is that alot of women complain about how their fathers weren't affectionate toward them or were emotionally uncommunicative. these women go on to date men who are like their fathers, internalize their frustration with the partners, or are always angry at their partners.

we should make pact to improve our interactions with each other.

[MsAlayneous]

[ April 28, 2003, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: deepred ]

[naeema_from_toronto]

Originally posted by deepred:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Women,its important to use this in the right place at the right time,and not abuse it,or you'll get unnesacerily abused,by Hormoned controlled men. If Im dancing .. and you try to touch me.. youll get necessarily abused by me. deal with it. welcome to new york. </font>[/QUOTE]more like welcome to the 21st century!!

[JJ11]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women,its important to use this in the right place at the right time,and not abuse it,or you'll get unnesacerily abused,by Hormoned controlled men.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Im dancing .. and you try to touch me.. youll get necessarily abused by me. deal with it. welcome to new york.
--------------------------------------------------
Some just have to learn by experience,on their own. Good Luck.

[JJ11]

naeema_from_toronto
Junior Member
Member # 2657

posted April 07, 2003 05:56 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by deepred:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women,its important to use this in the right place at the right time,and not abuse it,or you'll get unnesacerily abused,by Hormoned controlled men.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Im dancing .. and you try to touch me.. youll get necessarily abused by me. deal with it. welcome to new york.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

more like welcome to the 21st century!!

--------------------------------------------------

Hi Naeema from Toronto,and Deepred.
I can clearly see,I'm the exact type of Man you'd both like and need.I'm not single,though there are plenty of other real men out there.I'm sure you'll both find your Mr right soon,and all this child talk,will be something of the past.

[MsAlayneous]

[ April 28, 2003, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: deepred ]

[JJ11]

---more like welcome to the 21st century!!----

Yes,even in the 21st century.Just remember,Men dont want too much from their Woman.Its not really complicated at all,dont worry.

[JJ11]

When you both have children,you'll then understand how silly and meaningless,your anger,and frustration over nothingness is.
Now that I have children,I look at people without children, as people on vacation now.

[naeema_from_toronto]

Originally posted by JJ11:
When you both have children,you'll then understand how silly and meaningless,your anger,and frustration over nothingness is.
Now that I have children,I look at people without children, as people on vacation now. what are you talking about? i have been trying to follow your logic but there doesnt seem to be any in your posts. i'm at a loss.

see, its people like you that make the travelling dance a neccesary component of every young ladies dance-move repertoire.

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by kenspank:
i think this is a multi-faceted problem. part of the problem for women, is that some women actually respond favorably to the caveman style of dancefloor ettiquette.

another problem, is that people have become less friendly with each other over time. we are scarred from dysfunctional sexual relationships and dysfunctional family relationships and dysfunctional work relationships. True on both counts. If a woman likes that, though, that is fine. Men who have marched away from me on the dancefloor seem to have no problem finding others who don't mind being grabbed up. If the woman likes that, that's cool for them.

Honestly, Ken, I feel like I can't win at times. I have been told that I look "mean" because I tend to be a serious person who doesn't smile easily. Now that I am conscious of that, I allow myself to smile freely in the club when I feel happy. But it seems a smile, too, is a come-on for some people. I just want to be free to have a good time at the club. I don't like being upset when I have to tell someone to get off me. I also don't like it when a man feels like he has to stop dancing with me and walk off if I tell him that I don't want to be touched like that. What JJ says is madness. Men who do that are going to do it just because that is part of who they are, as Shalewa said. There are men out there who have really good energy who have danced with me and even hugged me at the end of the dance and went on their way. That feels good and is acceptable. There are different types of touch and a "pure" hug is something that contributes to the good of us both. I just wish men who have sex issues would not bring them to the club and ruin my night. That is why I sometimes am in favor of strict door policies. What we have is really a culture, and sometimes you can tell the people who won't "fit."

[JJ11]

naeema_from_toronto
Junior Member
Member # 2657

posted April 07, 2003 07:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JJ11:
When you both have children,you'll then understand how silly and meaningless,your anger,and frustration over nothingness is.
Now that I have children,I look at people without children, as people on vacation now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what are you talking about? i have been trying to follow your logic but there doesnt seem to be any in your posts. i'm at a loss.

see, its people like you that make the travelling dance a neccesary component of every young ladies dance-move repertoire.

------------------

All the best in your travels Naeema from toronto.
Yes,experience is the best teacher.I know its tough for some,to learn from just listening to others,and their experience.I'm a learn from experience type as well,unfortunately.
Lets talk 10 years from now,and see how your travels have gone,and where they've taken you.My sister was a traveler too.